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View Full Version : Kobe: "i've never played for the attention or the notoriety"



4milesperday
03-31-2013, 10:45 PM
http://lakerholicz.com/video-kobe-bryant-and-michael-wilbon-unedited-20-minute-interview/2013/03/20

LOL

LeperMessiah
03-31-2013, 11:31 PM
... It's true.

bucketss
03-31-2013, 11:35 PM
Lol

beasted86
03-31-2013, 11:38 PM
If I were to believe him that would mean I also believe his basketball IQ stinks. It would mean he wasn't selfish but just "slow".... and out of outright delusion of what he thought was the 'best possible play' he has made a career out of trying to win games by taking terrible shots and has had a 17 year horrible learning curve on improving his efficiency.

But since I don't believe him, I'll stick to what I thought before. Kobe is a great player who loves to take bad shots on purpose because some times he looks very good when they go in.

jerellh528
03-31-2013, 11:46 PM
He plays to win the game.

Hellcrooner
03-31-2013, 11:47 PM
Hey dudes, i just saw a Bearded Frog riding on a Pig with Wings that was just flying to the rainbow and a dwarf with a pot of gold was telling them where to land.


I also had dinner with the tooth fairy?

Do you believe me?

Well it has 10000 times more of a chance to be true .

Teeboy1487
03-31-2013, 11:51 PM
I don't think this is entirely true, but winning is more important to him.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-31-2013, 11:52 PM
Hey dudes, i just saw a Bearded Frog riding on a Pig with Wings that was just flying to the rainbow and a dwarf with a pot of gold was telling them where to land.


I also had dinner with the tooth fairy?

Do you believe me?

Well it has 10000 times more of a chance to be true .

Worst Laker fan ever.

Chronz
04-01-2013, 12:03 AM
Worst Kobe fan ever.

Fixed

CavsYanksDuke
04-01-2013, 12:04 AM
Wow. Some of you are so desperate for attention that you can't see this as a possibility? Introverts are driven by strange motives sometimes...

beasted86
04-01-2013, 12:07 AM
Hey dudes, i just saw a Bearded Frog riding on a Pig with Wings that was just flying to the rainbow and a dwarf with a pot of gold was telling them where to land.


I also had dinner with the tooth fairy?

Do you believe me?

Well it has 10000 times more of a chance to be true .

You forgot to include the unicorns and Santa Claus.

Mishmin
04-01-2013, 12:10 AM
Ok, Kobe.

Tayzak15
04-01-2013, 12:14 AM
If this thread doesn't close soon I'm going to assume all the Mods on here are Heat fans since, they locked up my thread earlier which was much less of a troll.

bucketss
04-01-2013, 12:20 AM
If this thread doesn't close soon I'm going to assume all the Mods on here are Heat fans since, they locked up my thread earlier which was much less of a troll.

so you admit it was a troll thread LMAO

Hellcrooner
04-01-2013, 12:26 AM
You forgot to include the unicorns and Santa Claus.

and dogs wich eat homework-

SportsFanatic10
04-01-2013, 12:27 AM
Bull****!

DumDum
04-01-2013, 12:29 AM
april fools this thread

Lakeshow24KB
04-01-2013, 12:31 AM
april fools this thread

Are you a sneakerhead

DumDum
04-01-2013, 12:36 AM
Are you a sneakerhead

kinda I appreciate good sneakers

Tayzak15
04-01-2013, 12:36 AM
so you admit it was a troll thread LMAO
No, but this is much more flaming than mine. Im saying if they locked mine up, there's no way this one should last.

Lakeshow24KB
04-01-2013, 12:50 AM
kinda I appreciate good sneakers

Do you have a collection?

Hellcrooner
04-01-2013, 01:02 AM
It is well known that crooner is an outcast.

The Word you are looking for is Freethinker.

DumDum
04-01-2013, 01:02 AM
im pretty much empty now just a pair red n/ white jordan 6s the olymic 6s bred 11s the 2001 I believe not the new ones some 7s ,a couple pairs of the lebron 8s ,my pops give a pair of 13s a while back black and red og I cant do nothing with them because the crack on the bottoms

THE GIPPER
04-01-2013, 01:20 AM
Ahhh, Kobe. Despite your best efforts you are so transparent.

zn23
04-01-2013, 01:29 AM
Lmfaoooooooooooooooooooo

Yea sure Kobe, you spent your whole career ignoring what the Media said about you and were a great team player.

More-Than-Most
04-01-2013, 01:40 AM
**** out of here lol

:laugh:

Just stop

Bruno
04-01-2013, 01:40 AM
If I were to believe him that would mean I also believe his basketball IQ stinks. It would mean he wasn't selfish but just "slow".... and out of outright delusion of what he thought was the 'best possible play' he has made a career out of trying to win games by taking terrible shots and has had a 17 year horrible learning curve on improving his efficiency.

But since I don't believe him, I'll stick to what I thought before. Kobe is a great player who loves to take bad shots on purpose because some times he looks very good when they go in.

his efficiency is fine. to date it's better than Wilts, Duncans, and Hakeems. he has a better TS% than all of them.

ThaDubs
04-01-2013, 01:45 AM
his efficiency is fine. to date it's better than Wilts, Duncans, and Hakeems. he has a better TS% than all of them.

Well no **** none of those guys shot 3's of FT's well.

Jenceman
04-01-2013, 02:07 AM
Well no **** none of those guys shot 3's of FT's well.

Exactly. So again, Kobe's eff. has always been fine, save for maybe last season.

More-Than-Most
04-01-2013, 02:24 AM
Fun note...Jordan/James have done the same. Its smart business.... Its why people stay the hell out of small markets when they get a chance. Sorry but all players do it and Kobe is just spewing lies. Its ok to do it as well... I would do just about anything if I was in the spotlight to be the most famous person in the world.

Bruno
04-01-2013, 03:20 PM
Well no **** none of those guys shot 3's of FT's well.

we never hear a word about those three guys being inefficient scorers, that's the point.

Bruno
04-01-2013, 03:22 PM
Exactly. So again, Kobe's eff. has always been fine, save for maybe last season.

which he has totally redeemed this season. he's posting the third highest TS% of his career, despite the fact that he's 5th in the NBA in total minutes played. Despite his heavy load and minute count his efficiency is still good.

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 04:01 PM
which he has totally redeemed this season. he's posting the third highest TS% of his career, despite the fact that he's 5th in the NBA in total minutes played. Despite his heavy load and minute count his efficiency is still good.

:clap:

DumDum
04-01-2013, 04:36 PM
his efficiency is fine. to date it's better than Wilts, Duncans, and Hakeems. he has a better TS% than all of them.

says who wheres the proof ? I'm not taking your word for it

JasonJohnHorn
04-01-2013, 04:38 PM
I think this is Kobe's "April Fool's Day" joke ;-)

mngopher35
04-01-2013, 05:25 PM
says who wheres the proof ? I'm not taking your word for it

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=bryanko01&y1=2013&p2=duncati01&y2=2013&p3=chambwi01&y3=1973&p4=olajuha01&y4=2002

Playoffs it's a slightly different story but look at regular season advanced stats and you can see their ts%. Wilt was in a completely different era and game so take that into consideration, but kobe is right there with duncan in regular season and playoff ts%. Regular season he has the best.

Bruno
04-01-2013, 06:45 PM
says who wheres the proof ? I'm not taking your word for it

you should.

you can google it yourself. or you can go to basketball reference and compare the respective career true shooting percentages of those four players. i'm not in the business of spoon feeding information to people who aren't going to be receptive to the information. Bryant has a higher career true shooting percentage than Wilt, Duncan, or Hakeem (four elite bigs who never catch crap for being 'inefficient' scorers). There is no debate here, those are the numbers.

i suggest you read up on TS% as well.

Bruno
04-01-2013, 06:48 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=bryanko01&y1=2013&p2=duncati01&y2=2013&p3=chambwi01&y3=1973&p4=olajuha01&y4=2002

Playoffs it's a slightly different story but look at regular season advanced stats and you can see their ts%. Wilt was in a completely different era and game so take that into consideration, but kobe is right there with duncan in regular season and playoff ts%. Regular season he has the best.

good post. and props to Hakeem for upping his efficiency so drastically come post-season.

ztilzer31
04-01-2013, 06:59 PM
I think the major difference between Lebron fans and Kobe fans is Lebron fans admit they just like to follow Lebron.

Guys like Illusionist pretend to be Lakers fans... and they're just not. They're Kobe fans.

Faneik
04-01-2013, 07:04 PM
I think the major difference between Lebron fans and Kobe fans is Lebron fans admit they just like to follow Lebron.

Guys like Illusionist pretend to be Lakers fans... and they're just not. They're Kobe fans.

The 2 fanbases started to trash-talk a lot when the Lakers got Howard & Nash.
They thought of each other as the biggest obstacle to the championship.

Now, 1 fan-base is relaxed and happy. And the other is getting more and more frustrated.

But it's just a few posters who behave very bad. Others are caught in the middle and get involved, but aren't nearly as bad.

ManRam
04-01-2013, 07:24 PM
#threadworthy

zn23
04-01-2013, 07:31 PM
which he has totally redeemed this season. he's posting the third highest TS% of his career, despite the fact that he's 5th in the NBA in total minutes played. Despite his heavy load and minute count his efficiency is still good.

A shot jacker can look efficient with TS% because you are mixing floor game with free throws. To ID chuckers you have to separate the 2.

time4change
04-01-2013, 07:33 PM
It's true.


If you need me to point out why your to much of a lost cause already.


These doubters are the same people that think LBJ should be spoken in the same sentence as His Airness.

ztilzer31
04-01-2013, 07:44 PM
It's true.


If you need me to point out why your to much of a lost cause already.


These doubters are the same people that think LBJ should be spoken in the same sentence as His Airness.

Why can't he be? Sure Jordan's career as it is now is better by a long shot, but both guys are some of the only players in NBA history to really be the clear best player in the NBA for a period of time.

You never know what Lebron and the Heat can do in the next 5 years. What if they won the next 8 championships? I know it's extremely unlikely, but I'm just saying to say there are no similarities in skill level is just overrating Jordan. He is the GOAT, but there were people that you can definitely compare in impact and LBJ is definitely one of them.

Bruno
04-01-2013, 08:16 PM
A shot jacker can look efficient with TS% because you are mixing floor game with free throws. To ID chuckers you have to separate the 2.

that's irrelevant. the only thing that should matter when it comes to overall scoring efficiency is this. how many points did player A earn, and how many field goals did that player attempt while getting those points. free-throws matter, and shooting 45% from the field isn't chucking by any stretch of the imagination.

hitting 80%+ from the line on 8 attempts per game over 16 years buys a guy who shoots 45% from the field a lot of leeway in this department. that's why he has a better TS% than Wilt, Duncan and Hakeem.

point is, you're wrong in calling a 45% career shooter a chucker, and even if you were right, you'd still be looking at the question through tunnel vision. Bryant more than makes up for his 45% average with fantastic free-throw shooting.

mngopher35
04-01-2013, 08:21 PM
A shot jacker can look efficient with TS% because you are mixing floor game with free throws. To ID chuckers you have to separate the 2.

I agree that kobe has been known to take ill advised shots throughout his career but he is still only 2% behind duncan on his efg%. So while he takes ill advised shots it has been a little over stated. You can't just ignore their efficiency at the free throw line either, everything matters. 2% isn't a huge difference and it also doesn't take into account that duncan is getting more baskets from the inside. TS% combines it all and tells us how efficiently a player scored with all of his shots. Sure Kobe could have had a better shot selection, but even without it he scored about as efficiently as duncan throughout their careers.

Bruno
04-01-2013, 08:22 PM
I agree that kobe has been known to take ill advised shots throughout his career but he is still only 2% behind duncan on his efg%. So while he takes ill advised shots it has been a little over stated. You can't just ignore their efficiency at the free throw line either, everything matters. 2% isn't a huge difference and it also doesn't take into account that duncan is getting more baskets from the inside. TS% combines it all and tells us how efficiently a player scored with all of his shots. Sure Kobe could have had a better shot selection, but even without it he scored about as efficiently as duncan throughout their careers.

well said. i'm your new biggest fan.

MaloDaw9
04-01-2013, 08:25 PM
Another Kobe bashing thread, shocking.

Same Kobe/Laker haters spewing garbage and mindless babble because Kobe took a giant **** on their teams.

Ha! Kobe has been intimidating you cowards for 17 years.

beasted86
04-01-2013, 08:25 PM
his efficiency is fine. to date it's better than Wilts, Duncans, and Hakeems. he has a better TS% than all of them.


Well no **** none of those guys shot 3's of FT's well.


Exactly. So again, Kobe's eff. has always been fine, save for maybe last season.

As stated above TS% doesn't mean much to me because it is weighted for FTs and 3PTs. Big men especially are handicapped by the fact most don't shoot 3s. Aside from that, additional FTs a player may have never earned such as technical fouls that guards take all the time (and big men don't) help to skew the stats further. TS% is inherently flawed because of this. Aside from that, based on TS%, a big man can shoot 12/12 from the field, and a guard can shoot 6/12 from the field and supposedly be just as efficient which is basically asinine logic.

Chronz
04-01-2013, 08:31 PM
As stated above TS% doesn't mean much to me because it is weighted for FTs and 3PTs. Big men especially are handicapped by the fact most don't shoot 3s. Aside from that, additional FTs a player may have never earned such as technical fouls that guards take all the time (and big men don't) help to skew the stats further. TS% is inherently flawed because of this. Aside from that, based on TS%, a big man can shoot 12/12 from the field, and a guard can shoot 6/12 from the field and supposedly be just as efficient which is basically asinine logic.
What makes it asinine? Why would we emphasize a stat that has a lower correlation with winning? Its the same concept as pts per possession. A 3pter is worth more than a 2pter, why would anyone ignore that by focusing on FG%?

mngopher35
04-01-2013, 08:33 PM
As stated above TS% doesn't mean much to me because it is weighted for FTs and 3PTs. Big men especially are handicapped by the fact most don't shoot 3s. Aside from that, additional FTs a player may have never earned such as technical fouls that guards take all the time (and big men don't) help to skew the stats further. TS% is inherently flawed because of this. Aside from that, based on TS%, a big man can shoot 12/12 from the field, and a guard can shoot 6/12 from the field and supposedly be just as efficient which is basically asinine logic.

You have a point with the technical Free Throw thing. That being said just because a big man can't shoot 3's doesnt mean it shouldn't count. 3's are a much lower percentage shot and they get you an extra point, it would be foolish not to include them. Big men have the advantage of having an easier time around the hoop because of their size. If a big man makes 8/10 shots for 16 points and a guard makes 7/10 shots for 21 points who do you consider more efficient? I'd say the one getting more points on the same amount of shots.

MaloDaw9
04-01-2013, 08:33 PM
I agree that kobe has been known to take ill advised shots throughout his career but he is still only 2% behind duncan on his efg%. So while he takes ill advised shots it has been a little over stated. You can't just ignore their efficiency at the free throw line either, everything matters. 2% isn't a huge difference and it also doesn't take into account that duncan is getting more baskets from the inside. TS% combines it all and tells us how efficiently a player scored with all of his shots. Sure Kobe could have had a better shot selection, but even without it he scored about as efficiently as duncan throughout their careers.

I appreciate your unbiased and educated opinions.

I wish there where stats on how many times Kobes teammates have thrown him the hot potato with 5 seconds left on the shot clock. Anytime the Lakers offense stalls they give it to Kobe to force one up deep into the clock, happens multiple times every game.

Bruno
04-01-2013, 08:35 PM
As stated above TS% doesn't mean much to me because it is weighted for FTs and 3PTs. Big men especially are handicapped by the fact most don't shoot 3s.
Kobe isn't a great three point shooter. he shoots 33% from the three for his career. if you did the math on it, i bet that you'd see that his three point shooting actually hinders his TS%, not the other way around. not that you'd have a good point even if he were elite from behind the arc. nothing about the TS% metric is unfairly weighted and big men aren't handicapped by it (if anything they have the benefit of being closer to the basket, and not getting dragged down by the classically inefficient three point bucket [save 40% three-point shooters]).



Aside from that, additional FTs a player may have never earned such as technical fouls that guards take all the time (and big men don't) help to skew the stats further.

how many technical free-throws do you think Kobe has taken?


TS% is inherently flawed because of this. Aside from that, based on TS%, a big man can shoot 12/12 from the field, and a guard can shoot 6/12 from the field and supposedly be just as efficient which is basically asinine logic.

there's nothing flawed or asinine about it. it is the most well rounded metric regarding overall scoring efficiency that we have.

if that guard who shot 6/12 from the field shot 12/12 from the line, and the big man who shot 12/12 from field went 0/12 from the free-throw line- they both scored 24 points on 12 field goal attempts. Both of them scored the same amount of points on the same number of FGAs. they are equally efficient scorers in different ways, and there is nothing skewed or unfair about that.

beasted86
04-01-2013, 09:04 PM
Um, guys, simple arithmetic here. 12/12 is 100%, 6/12 is 50%. It's not that difficult.

I understand why you want to believe in this stat, but to me its inherently flawed. If I am down by one point to win a game and have to choose between the two players above, they are not equal in terms of efficiency and giving you a chance to win because one guy can hit 3PT shots at a 50% clip. It's really that simple. I don't know how to make it more simple. The other guy hits 100% of his shots.

Read carefully, I said "TS doesn't mean much to me". If you disagree with me, that's fine.... but don't try and make it out to seem like I'm the crazy one for believing that 100% is always higher than 50%.

Oh, and BTW, Kobe has taken a ****load of technical FT shots over his career. If he's on the floor he's taking it. I can't think of many players who were higher FT shooters who took the shot instead of Kobe while he was on the floor. He might have a good 300+ more career FTs in his 17 years this way which could make a significant difference in his career TS%.

And one last thing, there is nothing well rounded about TS%. It doesn't account for usage rate, assisted FGs or turnovers, so it can't begin to be a rounded stat for scoring efficiency. Basically its kind of a modified points per shot, that's it. I don't call that scoring efficiency.

HouRealCoach
04-01-2013, 09:12 PM
Kobe is very funny, I have seen him chuck away games just to try and get his scoring where he wanted it lol

A bunch of games I seen him doing it specifically for the talent

Bruno
04-02-2013, 01:21 PM
Um, guys, simple arithmetic here. 12/12 is 100%, 6/12 is 50%. It's not that difficult.

I understand why you want to believe in this stat, but to me its inherently flawed. If I am down by one point to win a game and have to choose between the two players above, they are not equal in terms of efficiency and giving you a chance to win because one guy can hit 3PT shots at a 50% clip. It's really that simple. I don't know how to make it more simple. The other guy hits 100% of his shots.

Read carefully, I said "TS doesn't mean much to me". If you disagree with me, that's fine.... but don't try and make it out to seem like I'm the crazy one for believing that 100% is always higher than 50%.

Oh, and BTW, Kobe has taken a ****load of technical FT shots over his career. If he's on the floor he's taking it. I can't think of many players who were higher FT shooters who took the shot instead of Kobe while he was on the floor. He might have a good 300+ more career FTs in his 17 years this way which could make a significant difference in his career TS%.

And one last thing, there is nothing well rounded about TS%. It doesn't account for usage rate, assisted FGs or turnovers, so it can't begin to be a rounded stat for scoring efficiency. Basically its kind of a modified points per shot, that's it. I don't call that scoring efficiency.

you're missing the point.

Verbal Christ
04-02-2013, 07:22 PM
So an 'accused' rapist can also be a liar? Not surprised.

Hawkeye15
04-02-2013, 07:35 PM
I appreciate your unbiased and educated opinions.

I wish there where stats on how many times Kobes teammates have thrown him the hot potato with 5 seconds left on the shot clock. Anytime the Lakers offense stalls they give it to Kobe to force one up deep into the clock, happens multiple times every game.

Yeah, being a shot creator on the perimeter gets you to waste some shot attempts because you become the bail out guy. But over the course of a season, I can't imagine it represents more than a very, very small percentage of a players shots. And I mean in the 1-2% range tops. But it is there...

Hawkeye15
04-02-2013, 07:36 PM
Um, guys, simple arithmetic here. 12/12 is 100%, 6/12 is 50%. It's not that difficult.

I understand why you want to believe in this stat, but to me its inherently flawed. If I am down by one point to win a game and have to choose between the two players above, they are not equal in terms of efficiency and giving you a chance to win because one guy can hit 3PT shots at a 50% clip. It's really that simple. I don't know how to make it more simple. The other guy hits 100% of his shots.

Read carefully, I said "TS doesn't mean much to me". If you disagree with me, that's fine.... but don't try and make it out to seem like I'm the crazy one for believing that 100% is always higher than 50%.

Oh, and BTW, Kobe has taken a ****load of technical FT shots over his career. If he's on the floor he's taking it. I can't think of many players who were higher FT shooters who took the shot instead of Kobe while he was on the floor. He might have a good 300+ more career FTs in his 17 years this way which could make a significant difference in his career TS%.

And one last thing, there is nothing well rounded about TS%. It doesn't account for usage rate, assisted FGs or turnovers, so it can't begin to be a rounded stat for scoring efficiency. Basically its kind of a modified points per shot, that's it. I don't call that scoring efficiency.

I don't think you are grasping the point here. And stepping up and taking technicals sure as hell is a reward to your TS%, because you can actually make them...

You also never compare players statistics who aren't on the same level or role, ie, why would we compare Tyson Chandler with LeBron James, and say Chandler is the more efficient scorer?

b@llhog24
04-02-2013, 09:21 PM
I thought the .44 multiplier was to eliminate "non-skilled" aspects of scoring, i.e. technicals.

IKnowHoops
04-03-2013, 07:10 AM
Um, guys, simple arithmetic here. 12/12 is 100%, 6/12 is 50%. It's not that difficult.

I understand why you want to believe in this stat, but to me its inherently flawed. If I am down by one point to win a game and have to choose between the two players above, they are not equal in terms of efficiency and giving you a chance to win because one guy can hit 3PT shots at a 50% clip. It's really that simple. I don't know how to make it more simple. The other guy hits 100% of his shots.

Read carefully, I said "TS doesn't mean much to me". If you disagree with me, that's fine.... but don't try and make it out to seem like I'm the crazy one for believing that 100% is always higher than 50%.

Oh, and BTW, Kobe has taken a ****load of technical FT shots over his career. If he's on the floor he's taking it. I can't think of many players who were higher FT shooters who took the shot instead of Kobe while he was on the floor. He might have a good 300+ more career FTs in his 17 years this way which could make a significant difference in his career TS%.

And one last thing, there is nothing well rounded about TS%. It doesn't account for usage rate, assisted FGs or turnovers, so it can't begin to be a rounded stat for scoring efficiency. Basically its kind of a modified points per shot, that's it. I don't call that scoring efficiency.

I see that people have two definitions of efficiency. You believe efficiency is shown by makes/attempts. Others believe efficiency is shown by points/attemps.

You believe 10/10 for 20pts is more efficient than 9/10 for 34pts. If this is true then we just agree to disagree on what the definition of efficiency is.

Faneik
04-03-2013, 09:32 AM
I see that people have two definitions of efficiency. You believe efficiency is shown by makes/attempts. Others believe efficiency is shown by points/attemps.

You believe 10/10 for 20pts is more efficient than 9/10 for 34pts. If this is true then we just agree to disagree on what the definition of efficiency is.

I might be missing something...

Could you please explain how can you score 34 pts with 9 shots made?

even if the 9 shots are all 3 pointers it equals to 27...

BklynKnicks3
04-03-2013, 09:39 AM
What Kobe really ment" Iam not lebron lol'

Chronz
04-03-2013, 02:56 PM
You have a point with the technical Free Throw thing.
No he really doesnt. The .44 multiplier is meant to account for league averages, if you want to get really technical you can use actual numbers but very little changes.

Chronz
04-03-2013, 03:05 PM
Um, guys, simple arithmetic here. 12/12 is 100%, 6/12 is 50%. It's not that difficult.
Problem is its too simple and less accurate. Heres a simple counterpoint. 12 attempts and 24 points is less EFFICIENT than 10 attempts and 24pts. One guy went 12/12 the other guy went 8/10 from 3. His team has 2 more possessions to play with along with the possibility for an offensive rebound on his misses.


I understand why you want to believe in this stat, but to me its inherently flawed.
No more flawed than FG%. And far more relevant as far as stats being conducive to winning gos.


If I am down by one point to win a game and have to choose between the two players above, they are not equal in terms of efficiency and giving you a chance to win because one guy can hit 3PT shots at a 50% clip. It's really that simple. I don't know how to make it more simple. The other guy hits 100% of his shots.
Except thats a different argument and ignores the vast majority of the game. Once you get into clutch stats, lots of variables come into play and even plain ol FG% isnt enough. I dont see you disregarding FG% despite its shortcoming in this same scenario. Floor% and overall scoring efficiency are different.




Read carefully, I said "TS doesn't mean much to me". If you disagree with me, that's fine.... but don't try and make it out to seem like I'm the crazy one for believing that 100% is always higher than 50%.
Sorry but you are indeed alone on this matter, at least if you value what ACTUAL STATISTICIANS have researched over the layman. The opinion of one man with such a futile argument doesn't carry any weight, your free to live in your bubble, but you cant blame us for questioning a stance that gos against common/respected knowledge in the field your pretending to have insight to.


Oh, and BTW, Kobe has taken a ****load of technical FT shots over his career. If he's on the floor he's taking it. I can't think of many players who were higher FT shooters who took the shot instead of Kobe while he was on the floor. He might have a good 300+ more career FTs in his 17 years this way which could make a significant difference in his career TS%.
Ive seen the discrepancies, year to year you exaggerate its effect. The .44 multiplier does a decent job accounting for this.


And one last thing, there is nothing well rounded about TS%. It doesn't account for usage rate, assisted FGs or turnovers, so it can't begin to be a rounded stat for scoring efficiency. Basically its kind of a modified points per shot, that's it. I don't call that scoring efficiency.
Irrelevant, FG% suffers the same flaws only moreso because it actually ignores the values of a 3pter.

Chronz
04-03-2013, 03:08 PM
I thought the .44 multiplier was to eliminate "non-skilled" aspects of scoring, i.e. technicals.
Yup. Really wish more people researched matters they argue against. Obviously its just an average but Hollinger has shown the difference in actual possession usage and technical freebies to be slim. Besides, most of the technicals Kobe has shot could in some way be attributed to him. As in most 3 second violations are a result of teams stacking up the paint for his drives/post-ups.

GiantsSwaGG
04-03-2013, 03:11 PM
Remember when Kobe scored 81 points

Chronz
04-03-2013, 03:13 PM
I see that people have two definitions of efficiency. You believe efficiency is shown by makes/attempts. Others believe efficiency is shown by points/attemps.

You believe 10/10 for 20pts is more efficient than 9/10 for 34pts. If this is true then we just agree to disagree on what the definition of efficiency is.

If you score more points on less possessions, you are in fact more efficient than the guy who scored less with more. Thats an undeniable fact.

If you want to argue that your player is better at making the shots his limited skillset allows him to take, then thats anyone's prerogative, but you cannot claim someone who produces at a rate less conducive to winning of being more efficient.

Pts per possession is what matters. To treat 3pters as if they do not count for MORE points is to admit ignorance. Now if you want to know whos better at different points in the game, then you better have alot more than just fg% or ts% at your disposal. Thats why his argument falls short, the critiques he holds against TS% hold true for FG% (ie clutchness or lack of measuring usage).

The point about technical free throws is somewhat valid, but falls laughably short of proving FG% supriority given its inability to account for the far more prevalent values of 3pters and earned free throws.

Chronz
04-03-2013, 03:14 PM
I might be missing something...

Could you please explain how can you score 34 pts with 9 shots made?

even if the 9 shots are all 3 pointers it equals to 27...

Free throws. Which TS% can measure and FG% cannot.

Oldmantrash
04-03-2013, 03:32 PM
I believe him

The guy might be selfish, and thinks he's better, and smarter than everyone, but I really don't think he cares about fame like others do.
He's not all over TV like Lebron is, and Jordan was.
He's not part of the NBA gang, he's his own entity, and probably won't be friends with any NBA players, or have anything to do with basketball when he retires.
I see him moving to Europe, and living in anonymity

MLB2K10King
04-03-2013, 03:40 PM
When I first read this thread I thought "yeah right Kobe, Bull****" However, after giving it some thought. Kobe has never really been a "Super Flashy Player" He hasn't really been one who has asked for a lot of attention. Has he demanded the ball more, or taken far too many shots? Absolutely. But his call for attention has been mostly basketball focused. Also, how can we really call Kobe a selfish player, you do realize he played second fiddle to Shaq and did a pretty good job at it for several years. ON any other team he probably would of been the main scorer. He does his endorsement deals but who doesn't and he never called or proclaimed his self the "King" as Media and Lebron has done (that's not a knock on Lebron). If you look at it that way, I can understand why he would say that. It's kind of true

mngopher35
04-03-2013, 04:25 PM
No he really doesnt. The .44 multiplier is meant to account for league averages, if you want to get really technical you can use actual numbers but very little changes.

Totally correct.

It could possibly affect who has the higher ts% between kobe and duncan though, right? It wouldn't drastically change anything at all, but the difference in TS% between kobe an duncan career wise is .003%. I think it is possible that without technical free throws they could have the same TS% or duncan then is very slightly higher. Maybe I am wrong though, I would love to know. If kobe shot roughly 600 technical attempts throughout his career at his normal rate (slightly less than one every 2 games) his TS% would be slightly below duncan and not ahead. Just curious, it really doesn't matter much either way.

6cadi6
04-03-2013, 04:45 PM
:bs: :laugh2:

3RDASYSTEM
04-03-2013, 05:09 PM
Well had he just went to HORNETS it would make a lot more sense

but swindling your way to a stacked squad on draft night reaks of attention and plus a weak mental to go to a lottery team and build'em up to contenders(sorta like 05-07)

his impact to competiveness is overranked

just because he scowls his face after hitting a 3pointer to cut into a 18pt lead with 9minutes to go doesn't mean he's this super competitive player

he was the same tongue wagging JORDAN copycat HSPOY in 96' that entered the nba draft, that's attention in itself

but hey let me go play for LAKERS over HORNETS since I never played for the attention...CHA vs LA? who wins for getting attention from media outlets and fans? im sure his 'idols' WEST/MAGIC had his 'attention' growing up

and to think LA is Hollywood, the attention seeking capitol of America for notoriety

MLB2K10King
04-04-2013, 10:24 AM
There really is a lot of Kobe hate in this thread. Just think about it objectively. Compared to other NBA players how often has Kobe tried to be in the spotlight in regards to off the court matters?