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View Full Version : Whats an unpopular opinion you hold of the NBA



Chronz
03-31-2013, 08:31 PM
Something you find very few people to believe but you just know to be true.

Hellcrooner
03-31-2013, 11:45 PM
League/Refs/Media/Coaches are still biased against MOST foreigners.

They have to work twice as hard to get Half the Recognision.

I say Most because some of them actually have been hyped up regardless ( Ming; Dirk, Rubio for example) of nationality.

jerellh528
03-31-2013, 11:47 PM
lebron plays to win. jk

Mr_Jones
04-01-2013, 12:04 AM
Lebron is Michael Jordan's dad.

Tayzak15
04-01-2013, 12:15 AM
The NBA has an influence or fixes certain games.

bucketss
04-01-2013, 12:23 AM
i don't think kobe is near as clutch as people think nor do i think his will to win is unmatched, i think those things are great exaggerations that none of his fans can ever prove without bad arguments,myths and fallacies.

VCaintdead17
04-01-2013, 12:27 AM
I'd take Jrue Holiday over Steph Curry :hide:

DumDum
04-01-2013, 12:34 AM
kobe plays like reggie miller not jordan

VCaintdead17
04-01-2013, 12:34 AM
Also, I'd argue Kyrie's season this year is on par with Rose's MVP season

b@llhog24
04-01-2013, 12:34 AM
There are at least 10 players who passed through the Nba, that are better than Bill Russell.

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 12:43 AM
League/Refs/Media/Coaches are still biased against MOST foreigners.

They have to work twice as hard to get Half the Recognision.

I say Most because some of them actually have been hyped up regardless ( Ming; Dirk, Rubio for example) of nationality.

Funny you say that, because you come off as a racist sometimes.

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 12:44 AM
kobe plays like reggie miller not jordan

Try harder.

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 12:44 AM
There are at least 10 players who passed through the Nba, that are better than Bill Russell.

Agreed.

Hellcrooner
04-01-2013, 01:02 AM
also.
Jordan is a prefabritacted comertial Brand, just lile the can of coke you are drinking rigth now.

mvb815
04-01-2013, 01:08 AM
teams tank for pics :(

DumDum
04-01-2013, 01:10 AM
Try harder.

not even trying thats the thing

Im_in_Mia_bish
04-01-2013, 01:11 AM
before you dance in the rain, make sure you wear a raincoat :)

ChiSox219
04-01-2013, 03:11 PM
Also, I'd argue Kyrie's season this year is on par with Rose's MVP season

I would like to hear that argument...

sports4life1989
04-01-2013, 03:21 PM
I don't believe Kyrie Irving is Uncle Drew, I think Uncle Drew is Kyrie Irving.

xRipCity
04-01-2013, 03:25 PM
I was skeptical a couple years back during the finals...

One of the historic matchups in all throughout NBA history... Lakers v Celtics... met in the finals.

The fact that it went 7 games and the way it went 7 games seemed like a money making scheme moreso than actual reality.

JoeBlessU
04-01-2013, 03:26 PM
i don't think kobe is near as clutch as people think nor do i think his will to win is unmatched, i think those things are great exaggerations that none of his fans can ever prove without bad arguments,myths and fallacies.

You call Kobe fans instigators but then throw this out there haha.. Honestly, I am not on either side but come on dude.

NeverSayNevur
04-01-2013, 03:29 PM
Jordan 'retired' because he had trouble with mafia.

JC_
04-01-2013, 03:30 PM
Not sure if this is unpopular or not but I think the refs are told how to ref games before and during the game.

He115ing
04-01-2013, 03:34 PM
NBA refs are still being bought to make or not to make calls against certain players or teams.

JasonJohnHorn
04-01-2013, 03:39 PM
I don't believe that Jordan is the clear cut GOAT. Most people I know think I'm an idiot for saying it, but believe that Hakeem and Robinson, as well as Barkley and Malone has as much impact on the floor, if not more in some instances, than did Jordan and that Stockton is as deserving as a spot in the top ten all-time as anybody. Obviously I believe Magic and Bird were as good as Jordan in their respective primes, if not better, but injuries (back to Bird and HIV for Magic) cut their careers short. Russell, Kareem, Wilt and the Big O are all in the conversation as well.

I watched a lot of games back then, and as great as Jordan was (and he was great), he got a disgusting amount of calls. the ratings for a series featuring Jordan were far higher than the ratings without Jordan, and I believe that the NBA made sure Jordan was in the finals in several occasions when I don't think he would have been there without the officials. The truth of the matter, in my opinion, is that Jordan was a bigger brand than the NBA. People were Jordan fans, not basketball fans, and the NBA needed the Jordan fans. This was impart do to Jordan's immense skill, but it was also in part due to Nike's and their branding. I'm not saying Jordan wasn't amazing, he was. But I do not think he is the clear cut GOAT, though there is obviously a case for him, and I believe that the officials/NBA help him to no less than 3 of those 6 championships.


Also, Drexler is a grossly underrated player and if prime Drexler was playing against prime Kobe, he would show Kobe a thing or two.

heyman321
04-01-2013, 03:40 PM
06 Finals was completely fixed, Dirk should be a 2 time champ.

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 03:50 PM
I don't believe that Jordan is the clear cut GOAT. Most people I know think I'm an idiot for saying it, but believe that Hakeem and Robinson, as well as Barkley and Malone has as much impact on the floor, if not more in some instances, than did Jordan and that Stockton is as deserving as a spot in the top ten all-time as anybody. Obviously I believe Magic and Bird were as good as Jordan in their respective primes, if not better, but injuries (back to Bird and HIV for Magic) cut their careers short. Russell, Kareem, Wilt and the Big O are all in the conversation as well.

I watched a lot of games back then, and as great as Jordan was (and he was great), he got a disgusting amount of calls. the ratings for a series featuring Jordan were far higher than the ratings without Jordan, and I believe that the NBA made sure Jordan was in the finals in several occasions when I don't think he would have been there without the officials. The truth of the matter, in my opinion, is that Jordan was a bigger brand than the NBA. People were Jordan fans, not basketball fans, and the NBA needed the Jordan fans. This was impart do to Jordan's immense skill, but it was also in part due to Nike's and their branding. I'm not saying Jordan wasn't amazing, he was. But I do not think he is the clear cut GOAT, though there is obviously a case for him, and I believe that the officials/NBA help him to no less than 3 of those 6 championships.


Also, Drexler is a grossly underrated player and if prime Drexler was playing against prime Kobe, he would show Kobe a thing or two.

God awful post.

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 03:51 PM
06 Finals was completely fixed, Dirk should be a 2 time champ.

True. The refs gave Wade a 100 free throws that series.

VCaintdead17
04-01-2013, 03:57 PM
I would like to hear that argument...

A TS% of 57 and eFG% of 51 on 30% usg is fantastic. Not to mention the fact that he really has no consistent help offensively. Teams literally game plan around how to stop this dude and yet he still finds a way to score loads in an efficient manner. Compare it to Rose's 55% and 48% on 32% USG and it's not a stretch at all.

Sadds The Gr8
04-01-2013, 04:03 PM
Worst playoffs of the 4 "major sports". And the refs are supremely biased towards stars and big name teams.

Blitzbolt
04-01-2013, 04:06 PM
K.Love and Irving are nothing but role players putting up stats on Dleague like teams.

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 04:07 PM
K.Love and Irving are nothing but role players putting up stats on Dleague like teams.

Lol, good joke.

LAKERMANIA
04-01-2013, 04:11 PM
Tracy McGrady is overrated

RaJAxTWa
04-01-2013, 04:11 PM
MarShon Brooks can be a 6th man of the year candidate if he got the chance to play

ChiSox219
04-01-2013, 04:11 PM
A TS% of 57 and eFG% of 51 on 30% usg is fantastic. Not to mention the fact that he really has no consistent help offensively. Teams literally game plan around how to stop this dude and yet he still finds a way to score loads in an efficient manner. Compare it to Rose's 55% and 48% on 32% USG and it's not a stretch at all.

Putting aside the offensive metrics (Rose still had the higher ORtg and played 81 games vs 60ish for Kyrie), Rose was elite defensively and led his team to 62 wins with Boozer and Noah missing signifcant time and Keith Bogans as the starting 2 guard. I like Kyrie a lot and he could eventually pass Rose but too many people dont give the proprer credit to Derrick for what he did that season.

D-Leethal
04-01-2013, 04:12 PM
Efficiency does not always determine who the better offensive player is.

ChiSox219
04-01-2013, 04:18 PM
People don't like when i say James Harden is a cross between Michael Jordan and Steve Nash but most of those people also didnt think Harden was a superstar before this season started.

VCaintdead17
04-01-2013, 04:20 PM
Putting aside the offensive metrics (Rose still had the higher ORtg and played 81 games vs 60ish for Kyrie), Rose was elite defensively and led his team to 62 wins with Boozer and Noah missing signifcant time and Keith Bogans as the starting 2 guard. I like Kyrie a lot and he could eventually pass Rose but too many people dont give the proprer credit to Derrick for what he did that season.

I'm not so sure Rose had that big of an impact defensively for the Bulls. For starters, opponents actually shot a higher eFG% when he was on the court as opposed to when he was off the court. Opposing teams also had a much higher oRTG when he was on the court. On top of that, point guards for the most part don't make that much of a difference defensively anyways, and I think Rose is not an exception.

lilchuckdoubles
04-01-2013, 04:21 PM
stern hates the wolves more then any other team

ChiSox219
04-01-2013, 04:35 PM
I'm not so sure Rose had that big of an impact defensively for the Bulls. For starters, opponents actually shot a higher eFG% when he was on the court as opposed to when he was off the court. Opposing teams also had a much higher oRTG when he was on the court. On top of that, point guards for the most part don't make that much of a difference defensively anyways, and I think Rose is not an exception.

Taj and Asik came off the bench so on/off is gonna be skewed. PG defense is underrated but thats another argument for another day. My point is, Rose was elite defending PGs and Kyrie is not.

jon32
04-01-2013, 04:42 PM
Ever heard of the Raptors? no probably not....thats cuz Stern hates them the most.

Blitzbolt
04-01-2013, 04:42 PM
Wall is better then Irving.

DumDum
04-01-2013, 04:43 PM
Tracy McGrady is overrated
he was hands down best player in the league 02-03

iFYouSeekAmy
04-01-2013, 04:47 PM
Kent Bazemore

GiantsSwaGG
04-01-2013, 04:47 PM
Refs work for the Heat

GiantsSwaGG
04-01-2013, 04:49 PM
Tracy McGrady is overrated

Chronz will destroy your arguments with stats and the Orlando Magic roster!

GiantsSwaGG
04-01-2013, 04:49 PM
Tracy McGrady is overrated

Chronz will destroy your arguments with stats and the Orlando Magic roster!

Cubby
04-01-2013, 04:50 PM
Wall is better then Irving.

So false it isn't even funny.

Dade County
04-01-2013, 04:52 PM
Lol, I think this is a setup thread for me...lmao


I was skeptical a couple years back during the finals...

One of the historic matchups in all throughout NBA history... Lakers v Celtics... met in the finals.

The fact that it went 7 games and the way it went 7 games seemed like a money making scheme moreso than actual reality.

Kim's brother feels the same way... http://www.tmz.com/2010/06/16/rob-kardashian-nba-finals-rigged-lakers-celtics-game-seven-lamar-odom-khloe-kardashian-video/



Not sure if this is unpopular or not but I think the refs are told how to ref games before and during the game.

Yes, for entertainment reasons, and the Vegas line.



I don't believe that Jordan is the clear cut GOAT. Most people I know think I'm an idiot for saying it, but believe that Hakeem and Robinson, as well as Barkley and Malone has as much impact on the floor, if not more in some instances, than did Jordan and that Stockton is as deserving as a spot in the top ten all-time as anybody. Obviously I believe Magic and Bird were as good as Jordan in their respective primes, if not better, but injuries (back to Bird and HIV for Magic) cut their careers short. Russell, Kareem, Wilt and the Big O are all in the conversation as well.

I watched a lot of games back then, and as great as Jordan was (and he was great), he got a disgusting amount of calls. the ratings for a series featuring Jordan were far higher than the ratings without Jordan, and I believe that the NBA made sure Jordan was in the finals in several occasions when I don't think he would have been there without the officials. The truth of the matter, in my opinion, is that Jordan was a bigger brand than the NBA. People were Jordan fans, not basketball fans, and the NBA needed the Jordan fans. This was impart do to Jordan's immense skill, but it was also in part due to Nike's and their branding. I'm not saying Jordan wasn't amazing, he was. But I do not think he is the clear cut GOAT, though there is obviously a case for him, and I believe that the officials/NBA help him to no less than 3 of those 6 championships.


Also, Drexler is a grossly underrated player and if prime Drexler was playing against prime Kobe, he would show Kobe a thing or two.

I feel that Jordan still would have won 4 of those titles, but if the refs didn't create the super star call for Mj, he would have two less titles.

I kind of agree with your post.

JasonJohnHorn
04-01-2013, 04:57 PM
Jordan 'retired' because he had trouble with mafia.

I think this is very true to be honest. Not just the mafia, but gambling, and gambling on games. I don't think Jordan was ever guilty of point shaving or throwing games, but I do believe he bet on Bulls games (though I think he always bet on them to beat the spread). It was like Pete Rose... he always bet for his team to win, but he is not supposed to be betting at all. I think had that come out at the time, it would have hurt Jordan's brand big time and the NBA as much.

His father's death was tragic and suspicious as well.

JasonJohnHorn
04-01-2013, 05:00 PM
stern hates the wolves more then any other team

I think it is clear that he hates the Spurs most of all... it's just that they are so fawking good at what they do, he can't stop them from winning. But he hates the Wolves too... see the Joe Smith -illegal contract and taking away the draft picks. the Knicks were accused of illegal work outs with coligiate players and never lost any picks, and the Lakers were rumoured to have negotiated with Shaq before his contract was up with Orlando and didn't lose any picks. The NBA is much harder on teams like the Wolves and Spurs than teams like the Knicks and Lakers.

Cubby
04-01-2013, 05:02 PM
Lol, I think this is a setup thread for me...lmao


I was skeptical a couple years back during the finals...

One of the historic matchups in all throughout NBA history... Lakers v Celtics... met in the finals.

The fact that it went 7 games and the way it went 7 games seemed like a money making scheme moreso than actual reality.

Kim's brother feels the same way... http://www.tmz.com/2010/06/16/rob-kardashian-nba-finals-rigged-lakers-celtics-game-seven-lamar-odom-khloe-kardashian-video/



Not sure if this is unpopular or not but I think the refs are told how to ref games before and during the game.

Yes, for entertainment reasons, and the Vegas line.



I don't believe that Jordan is the clear cut GOAT. Most people I know think I'm an idiot for saying it, but believe that Hakeem and Robinson, as well as Barkley and Malone has as much impact on the floor, if not more in some instances, than did Jordan and that Stockton is as deserving as a spot in the top ten all-time as anybody. Obviously I believe Magic and Bird were as good as Jordan in their respective primes, if not better, but injuries (back to Bird and HIV for Magic) cut their careers short. Russell, Kareem, Wilt and the Big O are all in the conversation as well.

I watched a lot of games back then, and as great as Jordan was (and he was great), he got a disgusting amount of calls. the ratings for a series featuring Jordan were far higher than the ratings without Jordan, and I believe that the NBA made sure Jordan was in the finals in several occasions when I don't think he would have been there without the officials. The truth of the matter, in my opinion, is that Jordan was a bigger brand than the NBA. People were Jordan fans, not basketball fans, and the NBA needed the Jordan fans. This was impart do to Jordan's immense skill, but it was also in part due to Nike's and their branding. I'm not saying Jordan wasn't amazing, he was. But I do not think he is the clear cut GOAT, though there is obviously a case for him, and I believe that the officials/NBA help him to no less than 3 of those 6 championships.


Also, Drexler is a grossly underrated player and if prime Drexler was playing against prime Kobe, he would show Kobe a thing or two.

I feel that Jordan still would have won 4 of those titles, but if the refs didn't create the super star call for Mj, he would have two less titles.

I kind of agree with your post.

Rob Kardashian is a leech and a bum. His opinion is betting irrelevant.

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 05:07 PM
he was hands down best player in the league 02-03
How did that work out for him?

Lol, I think this is a setup thread for me...lmao










I feel that Jordan still would have won 4 of those titles, but if the refs didn't create the super star call for Mj, he would have two less titles.

I kind of agree with your post.

So what does that mean from bron?

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 05:07 PM
Refs work for the Heat

That's proven.

ManRam
04-01-2013, 05:10 PM
david stern isn't the spawn of satan
"pass first" point guards are vastly overrated, and there's nothing wrong with PGs that don't fit that mold
i don't really believe in any conspiracy theory, especially pertaining to refereeing, that you hear about today

Alayla
04-01-2013, 05:14 PM
Westbrook>Rose

Cubby
04-01-2013, 05:16 PM
Westbrook>Rose

Already been proven wrong countless times. Don't know why it keeps getting brought up.

LAKERMANIA
04-01-2013, 05:21 PM
he was hands down best player in the league 02-03
No.

Best scorer in the league and best player in the league are not the same thing.


Chronz will destroy your arguments with stats and the Orlando Magic roster!

:shrug:

DumDum
04-01-2013, 05:21 PM
That's proven.

by who ?

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 05:24 PM
by who ?

Life.

Chronz
04-01-2013, 05:28 PM
Lol, good joke.

This is a place for unpopular opinions, what compells you to put them down when everyone who posts is already admitting to be the minority?

I swear your the worst poster Ive ever come across in my stay here

b@llhog24
04-01-2013, 05:32 PM
This is a place for unpopular opinions, what compells you to put them down when everyone who posts is already admitting to be the minority?

I swear your the worst poster Ive ever come across in my stay here

+1

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 05:32 PM
This is a place for unpopular opinions, what compells you to put them down when everyone who posts is already admitting to be the minority?

I swear your the worst poster Ive ever come across in my stay here

Because I don't think Irvin and Love are scrubs? :facepalm: yourself.

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 05:32 PM
+1

-1

JasonJohnHorn
04-01-2013, 05:39 PM
06 Finals was completely fixed, Dirk should be a 2 time champ.

I think this one is EXTREMELY obvious to most people outside of Miami (and even to a few in Miami). The officials were AWFUL in the Detroit series.... it should have been a Detroit/Mavs finals, and the Mavs outplayed the Heat... just looking at how many times a player gets put on the line? Seriously? One game in a series is an anomaly, but two games? That is a pattern. Game three Wade was sent to the line for 18 free throws... Dirk just 12. That is the difference in a two point game and would have put Dallas up 3-0. 34 ft for Miami that game to 26 for Dallas. the next game? 36-27 in favour of Miami. Then 25 ft for Wade? As many as the entire Mavs team? and Dallas loses by a point? And then 21 to the Mavs 23 in game 6? And that is just Wade... the Heat got 37 ft to Dallas's 23!

Clearly the officials were favour the Heat that series. It was so blatant it was embarrassing.

b@llhog24
04-01-2013, 05:41 PM
Somebody doesn't understand context.

JasonJohnHorn
04-01-2013, 05:42 PM
+1

I like this +1 and Chronz's comment, not because I think that poster is the worst, but because it implies that at least two people on PSD don't think I am the worst poster ;-)

b@llhog24
04-01-2013, 05:45 PM
I like this +1 and Chronz's comment, not because I think that poster is the worst, but because it implies that at least two people on PSD don't think I am the worst poster ;-)

I consider you a good poster, could probably tone down the verbosity knob a little though.

JasonJohnHorn
04-01-2013, 05:46 PM
I consider you a good poster, could probably tone down the verbosity knob a little though.

That's a fair observation. I write more than I have to sometimes... it's the English major in me ;-) lol

ILLUSIONIST^248
04-01-2013, 05:47 PM
I think this one is EXTREMELY obvious to most people outside of Miami (and even to a few in Miami). The officials were AWFUL in the Detroit series.... it should have been a Detroit/Mavs finals, and the Mavs outplayed the Heat... just looking at how many times a player gets put on the line? Seriously? One game in a series is an anomaly, but two games? That is a pattern. Game three Wade was sent to the line for 18 free throws... Dirk just 12. That is the difference in a two point game and would have put Dallas up 3-0. 34 ft for Miami that game to 26 for Dallas. the next game? 36-27 in favour of Miami. Then 25 ft for Wade? As many as the entire Mavs team? and Dallas loses by a point? And then 21 to the Mavs 23 in game 6? And that is just Wade... the Heat got 37 ft to Dallas's 23!

Clearly the officials were favour the Heat that series. It was so blatant it was embarrassing.

This.

b@llhog24
04-01-2013, 05:58 PM
That's a fair observation. I write more than I have to sometimes... it's the English major in me ;-) lol

Ok now it makes sense.

LeperMessiah
04-01-2013, 06:01 PM
Worst playoffs of the 4 "major sports". And the refs are supremely biased towards stars and big name teams.

This is me as well.

LeperMessiah
04-01-2013, 06:03 PM
Because I don't think Irvin and Love are scrubs? :facepalm: yourself.

Then that's his opinion, just like the stupid ones you frequently drop.

Hawkeye15
04-01-2013, 06:03 PM
That's a fair observation. I write more than I have to sometimes... it's the English major in me ;-) lol

haha, it all makes sense! But I agree with ballhog

mngopher35
04-01-2013, 06:06 PM
I think Rubio can become a top 5 point guard in this league (which is stacked with them) in terms of impact on the game. (this is my homer pick)

I think that that the refs actually do a decent job overall. Sure they miss calls, and stars get slightly better treatment, but nothing that outlandish except for a few instances. Basketball can be pretty tough to ref, mistakes will happen no matter what. People just like to use the refs as an excuse sometimes (I do it as well, especially right after a game).

I think that defenses, while not as physical, are better today overall than in the jordan era.

Not sure how "unpopular" any of these are, but I see many disagree in other threads.

GiantsSwaGG
04-01-2013, 06:13 PM
That's a fair observation. I write more than I have to sometimes... it's the English major in me ;-) lol

Now it makes sense

teddygreen17
04-01-2013, 06:14 PM
Bobcats will one day be good.

Faneik
04-01-2013, 06:27 PM
Certain franchise names

Utah Jazz - New Orleans Hornets

LA Lakers

imo, in these cases the franchises should have changed their names to something that relates to the new city

LeperMessiah
04-01-2013, 06:28 PM
Bobcats will one day be good.

They were ALMOST good when they were the number 1 defense all those years ago.

Backstabber
04-01-2013, 06:34 PM
They've taken the contact out of the game. Turned it into a guards league.

BigBlueCrew
04-01-2013, 06:37 PM
Read thru all these posts...these are unpopular opinions? Interesting

Bruno
04-01-2013, 06:39 PM
he was hands down best player in the league 02-03

the guy who won league MVP, and dethroned the three-peat Lakers on his way to a Finals MVP in dominant fashion was the best player in the NBA in 2003.

Bruno
04-01-2013, 06:40 PM
Certain franchise names

Utah Jazz - New Orleans Hornets

LA Lakers

imo, in these cases the franchises should have changed their names to something that relates to the new city
never been to silver lake? :)

SugeKnight
04-01-2013, 06:43 PM
Steph Curry is the greatest shooter of all time

Dade County
04-01-2013, 06:45 PM
I think this one is EXTREMELY obvious to most people outside of Miami (and even to a few in Miami). The officials were AWFUL in the Detroit series.... it should have been a Detroit/Mavs finals, and the Mavs outplayed the Heat... just looking at how many times a player gets put on the line? Seriously? One game in a series is an anomaly, but two games? That is a pattern. Game three Wade was sent to the line for 18 free throws... Dirk just 12. That is the difference in a two point game and would have put Dallas up 3-0. 34 ft for Miami that game to 26 for Dallas. the next game? 36-27 in favour of Miami. Then 25 ft for Wade? As many as the entire Mavs team? and Dallas loses by a point? And then 21 to the Mavs 23 in game 6? And that is just Wade... the Heat got 37 ft to Dallas's 23!

Clearly the officials were favour the Heat that series. It was so blatant it was embarrassing.

D Wade in his prime was unstoppable, we haven't seen a force like that since Mj... and on that note, blame Mj for the super star calls.

But yes the league is rigged, but it's crazy that posters only notice this when it comes to the HEAT and sometimes the Lakers.

Bean
04-01-2013, 06:46 PM
There are more players on steroids/HGH than people think and it will come out eventually.

Kevin Garnett is vastly underrated because of his big mouth.

LeBron was coerced into the spectacle surrounding The Decision by the NBA/ESPN/his PR people.

Dade County
04-01-2013, 06:48 PM
How did that work out for him?


So what does that mean from bron?

The same thing that it means for Kobe ( cheat trade - Paul Gasol... Paul doesn't get gifted to L.A, Kobe gets traded, no more rings...end of story )... ( But actually, Born would have two rings right now... average 1pt in the 4th quarter my ***, rigged *** league ).

Blind hate is the only reason why people can't see what happen in that 2011 finals... Blind hate.

Chronz
04-01-2013, 06:51 PM
Steph Curry is the greatest shooter of all time

If this is an unpopular opinion, its only because people appoint an arbitrary limit on career length. Im pretty sure when discussing the greatest shooting seasons in history, hes in a category with maybe 2 or 3 others, in other words, hes very much in the conversation.

mngopher35
04-01-2013, 06:51 PM
Bobcats will one day be good.

lol, this might be my favorite.

Faneik
04-01-2013, 06:54 PM
never been to silver lake? :)

:)

nope

SugeKnight
04-01-2013, 06:55 PM
If this is an unpopular opinion, its only because people appoint an arbitrary limit on career length. Im pretty sure when discussing the greatest shooting seasons in history, hes in a category with maybe 2 or 3 others, in other words, hes very much in the conversation.

There was a poll a few weeks ago asking who the best shooter of all-time was and steph wasn't on the poll. It's an unpopular opinion, but it's true.

amos1er
04-01-2013, 06:59 PM
i don't think kobe is near as clutch as people think nor do i think his will to win is unmatched, i think those things are great exaggerations that none of his fans can ever prove without bad arguments,myths and fallacies.

Oh my, lol. Yet you call other people trolls. :rolleyes: Note, you were the first one to bring Kobe's name into this thread.

amos1er
04-01-2013, 07:01 PM
Guess my unpopular opinion is that certain athletes in the NBA could possibly be on PED's. It happened in nearly every other sport, so why is the NBA any different. Guess next year should be interesting...

Bruno
04-01-2013, 07:03 PM
:)

nope

haha, its in LA. but its small, i was just kidding.

Hawkeye15
04-01-2013, 07:06 PM
There was a poll a few weeks ago asking who the best shooter of all-time was and steph wasn't on the poll. It's an unpopular opinion, but it's true.

maybe not so unpopular versus he simply doesn't meet the minimum criteria to make that list. YET.

Hawkeye15
04-01-2013, 07:06 PM
There was a poll a few weeks ago asking who the best shooter of all-time was and steph wasn't on the poll. It's an unpopular opinion, but it's true.

maybe not so unpopular versus he simply doesn't meet the minimum criteria to make that list. YET.

The goods
04-01-2013, 07:11 PM
Magic Johnson is the greatest basketball player ever. The game is 5 on 5 not 1 on 1.

Hawkeye15
04-01-2013, 07:12 PM
Oh my, lol. Yet you call other people trolls. :rolleyes: Note, you were the first one to bring Kobe's name into this thread.

Is he wrong though? Kobe routinely wins the polls from GM's and media about who the most clutch player is, when the numbers show completely otherwise.

The goods
04-01-2013, 07:12 PM
Guess my unpopular opinion is that certain athletes in the NBA could possibly be on PED's. It happened in nearly every other sport, so why is the NBA any different. Guess next year should be interesting...

Can't wait to see who "slims" down next year. Lol

GiantsSwaGG
04-01-2013, 07:13 PM
Magic Johnson is the greatest basketball player ever. The game is 5 on 5 not 1 on 1.

He was mysteriously unguardable when he suffered a cut!

ztilzer31
04-01-2013, 07:29 PM
Guess my unpopular opinion is that certain athletes in the NBA could possibly be on PED's. It happened in nearly every other sport, so why is the NBA any different. Guess next year should be interesting...

You don't think certain NBA players do you think one player in the NBA does don't lie.

Your signature loses respect for any sports fan just by looking at it. You have opinions posted like they're ridiculous lol, and you are clearly accusing LBJ for roids with 0 fact. You lose his argument with me every time.

Are you like 14? Be honest.

ztilzer31
04-01-2013, 07:30 PM
Do you think it's also possible for Kobe to have taken roids? Or how bout Shaq?

amos1er
04-01-2013, 07:36 PM
He was mysteriously unguardable when he suffered a cut!

Terrible joke man. Totally tasteless.

Bramaca
04-01-2013, 07:47 PM
The talent level at the center position isn't as poor or depleted in comparison to the 80's-90's as people think. Big men just aren't used as much and improved athleticism at the other positions helps in defending the bigs.

Top end 'pass first' point guards tend to be more of a detriment to team play and championship hopes for a team.

The NBA would be a lot more entertaining, competitive, and a higher quality with a 50-60 game schedule instead verticle conferences.

ManRam
04-01-2013, 07:49 PM
There are more players on steroids/HGH than people think and it will come out eventually.

Kevin Garnett is vastly underrated because of his big mouth.

LeBron was coerced into the spectacle surrounding The Decision by the NBA/ESPN/his PR people.

none of those 3 should be unpopular opinions. however, i think kg's legacy is a bit underrated, but it's not purely because he talks a lot.

amos1er
04-01-2013, 07:52 PM
You don't think certain NBA players do you think one player in the NBA does don't lie.

Your signature loses respect for any sports fan just by looking at it. You have opinions posted like they're ridiculous lol, and you are clearly accusing LBJ for roids with 0 fact. You lose his argument with me every time.

Are you like 14? Be honest.

No, there are other players I feel may be on them too. My sig is all in good fun. Don't know why your so offended. You know what they say, people usually get offended when there is truth to something. I obviously don't have any fact, just some good honest intuition. I never made any sort of direct allegations or accusations.

amos1er
04-01-2013, 08:09 PM
Is he wrong though? Kobe routinely wins the polls from GM's and media about who the most clutch player is, when the numbers show completely otherwise.

What numbers are these you speak of?

All I know is that Kobe has the most game winners in NBA history, and as you said, he wins the GM poll about who the most clutch player in the NBA is every single year.

Oh...and there is this little article...http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/03/04/kobe-bryant-lebron-james-and-clutch-shooting-when-perception-and-reality-shake-hands/


On Friday night against the Utah Jazz, LeBron James put up one of those statlines where you would know it was him without even looking at the name attached to it: 35 points, 16-for-24 shooting, 10 rebounds, six assists, three blocks and no turnovers. Ridiculous, right? Too bad the Heat still lost the game by a point, and when LeBron passed out of a double team to a wide open Udonis Haslem for the potential game-winning shot — and Haslem missed the shot as the clock expired — the buzz on Twitter was mostly about how LeBron “wilted in the clutch” yet again.
The “LeBron isn’t clutch” narrative annoys me because too many people narrowly define clutch as “making the game-winning shot”. If you watched that final play and you’re completely objective about LeBron, you should agree with me that LeBron made the right play. LeBron was double-covered, Haslem is a decent mid-range shooter, and Haslem was open. Just because Kobe Bryant probably would have taken the shot in that situation, that doesn’t make it the right play.
Of course, what would be defined as “the right play” for most basketball players doesn’t apply to Kobe Bryant — according to some people, anyway. If you replace LeBron with Kobe and Haslem with Pau Gasol on that same play, I imagine most Lakers fans would want Kobe to take that shot. And the reason why they want Kobe to take that game-deciding shot is because of his reputation as the best clutch shooter in the NBA.
This reputation doesn’t just exist in the minds of fans. In a January survery of NBA General Managers by NBA.com, 48.1 percent of the respondents said they would want Kobe “taking a shot with the game on the line”. In last year’s survey, Kobe was named by 78.6 percent of the respondents. Most likely, the GMs feel this way about Kobe for the same reason his fans do — he’s made a lot of memorable buzzer-beaters in his career. He’s also missed a lot of those shots, and I’ve long believed that the quantity of his misses gets overlooked in this narrative.
Luckily for us, Basketball-Reference.com recently launched their “Shot Finder” which claims to track every shot from the 2000-01 season through to this season — up to the February 28 games, as of this writing. The table below shows the results of my Shot Finder query with the following criteria: regular season or playoffs, fourth quarter or overtime, 0:05 or less remaining, shot to tie or to take the lead. The Shot Finder doesn’t let you query across multiple seasons, so I did it for this season and the previous two seasons and added up the numbers for 35 of the most prominent players in terms of overall fame/ability or their tendency to take these shots. If you think I excluded a worthy player, feel free to look him up yourself.

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/03/120305-clutchshooting.jpg


As you can see, I sorted the results by field goals made. Part of me wants to dismiss the meaning behind these numbers because of the sample size — would you be comfortable making an absolute judgement on a player’s shooting skill based on 23 or fewer field goal attempts? But when it comes right down to it, these numbers do absolutely nothing to change Kobe’s and LeBron’s reputations.
As it turns out, Kevin Durant appears to have the most undeserved reputation as a clutch performer. He received 30.8 percent of the GM votes for “taking a shot with the game on the line” and while he’s taken more of those shots than anyone else, his results in those situations have been dismal. As Skeets and Tas have frequently pointed out, Thunder coach Scott Brooks’ playcalling probably deserves a lot of the blame for this.
For me, the most compelling number in this table is the combined field goal percentage for these players. We would all probably guess that the field goal percentage in these situations would be lower than in other situations because of the defensive intensity associated with game-deciding scenarios. But the shockingly poor field goal percentages of so many of the game’s elite players in these situations makes me wonder if coaches should start experimenting with using their stars as decoys in clutch moments. If the defense has a pretty good idea who is going to take that shot, the difficulty level for that player making the shot clearly goes way up.
Small sample sizes and all, it’s hard to make a good case that LeBron should have taken that final shot on Friday. Haslem was open, LeBron wasn’t, and LeBron doesn’t appear comfortable taking those shots, regardless. As for Kobe, it appears I owe him and his fans an apology for doubting his legend as much as I have. I still believe the concept of “clutch shooting” is overrated, but I certainly can’t continue implying that Kobe’s reputation is undeserved.

amos1er
04-01-2013, 08:19 PM
Do you think it's also possible for Kobe to have taken roids? Or how bout Shaq?

Sure, anything is possible.

Hawkeye15
04-01-2013, 08:34 PM
What numbers are these you speak of?

All I know is that Kobe has the most game winners in NBA history, and as you said, he wins the GM poll about who the most clutch player in the NBA is every single year.

Oh...and there is this little article...http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/03/04/kobe-bryant-lebron-james-and-clutch-shooting-when-perception-and-reality-shake-hands/

Numbers show Kobe, and the Lakers are indeed not clutch, when speaking of the top guys/teams (Lakers take a nosedive in those situations). Find any article you wish. Facts are facts. Absolutely no way I put effort into responding to you dude, what is the point?

amos1er
04-01-2013, 08:51 PM
Numbers show Kobe, and the Lakers are indeed not clutch, when speaking of the top guys/teams (Lakers take a nosedive in those situations). Find any article you wish. Facts are facts. Absolutely no way I put effort into responding to you dude, what is the point?

I just gave you the numbers since 2001 and you show me nothing to prove your initial claim. SMH. Can you at least acknowledge the numbers I provided or at least show some sort of evidence to back up your claim. Now all of the sudden you don't want to respond to me??? WTF You never provide any examples for anything when I call you out. You just made some bold claims and defamed my character. Talk about backpedaling. lol

Hawkeye15
04-01-2013, 08:55 PM
I just gave you the numbers since 2001 and you show me nothing to prove your initial claim. SMH. Can you at least acknowledge the numbers I provided or at least show some sort of evidence to back up your claim. Now all of the sudden you don't want to respond to me??? WTF You never provide any examples for anything when I call you out. You just made some bold claims and defamed my character. Talk about backpedaling. lol

but ya didn't give me the actual numbers...

I will put it very simple. I don't care about your claims. They are false many times, and protect Kobe. When the actual numbers aren't so kind.

Backpedaling? Meh, more like, "not giving a **** about what you say because I don't believe a word of it, and it's easy to prove".

b@llhog24
04-01-2013, 08:56 PM
Oh my, lol. Yet you call other people trolls. :rolleyes: Note, you were the first one to bring Kobe's name into this thread.

What's the point in calling the guy out, if this is a "unpopular opinion" thread? Wouldn't that be a GOOD thing for a Laker fan?

Bramaca
04-01-2013, 08:57 PM
I just gave you the numbers since 2001 and you show me nothing to prove your initial claim. SMH. Can you at least acknowledge the numbers I provided or at least show some sort of evidence to back up your claim. Now all of the sudden you don't want to respond to me??? WTF You never provide any examples for anything when I call you out. You just made some bold claims and defamed my character. Talk about backpedaling. lol

They are the numbers for the last 2 and a half years not the last 12.

ztilzer31
04-01-2013, 08:59 PM
What numbers are these you speak of?

All I know is that Kobe has the most game winners in NBA history, and as you said, he wins the GM poll about who the most clutch player in the NBA is every single year.

Oh...and there is this little article...http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/03/04/kobe-bryant-lebron-james-and-clutch-shooting-when-perception-and-reality-shake-hands/

He also has the most game winning misses in NBA history.

He also has the most missed shots in NBA history.

Kobe is a great player, but the more Lakers fans overrate him the more I can't stand him. Kobe is literally the Jesus of the NBA. No facts just faith.

GiantsSwaGG
04-01-2013, 09:00 PM
but ya didn't give me the actual numbers...

I will put it very simple. I don't care about your claims. They are false many times, and protect Kobe. When the actual numbers aren't so kind.

Backpedaling? Meh, more like, "not giving a **** about what you say because I don't believe a word of it, and it's easy to prove".

http://insurgencyinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/gangsta.jpg

GiantsSwaGG
04-01-2013, 09:01 PM
I just gave you the numbers since 2001 and you show me nothing to prove your initial claim. SMH. Can you at least acknowledge the numbers I provided or at least show some sort of evidence to back up your claim. Now all of the sudden you don't want to respond to me??? WTF You never provide any examples for anything when I call you out. You just made some bold claims and defamed my character. Talk about backpedaling. lol

:facepalm:

amos1er
04-01-2013, 09:01 PM
They are the numbers for the last 2 and a half years not the last 12.

http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/03/04/kobe-bryant-lebron-james-and-clutch-shooting-when-perception-and-reality-shake-hands/


Luckily for us, Basketball-Reference.com recently launched their “Shot Finder” which claims to track every shot from the 2000-01 season through to this season

amos1er
04-01-2013, 09:03 PM
:facepalm:

Touche. :rolleyes:

ztilzer31
04-01-2013, 09:06 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

Bramaca
04-01-2013, 09:08 PM
http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/03/04/kobe-bryant-lebron-james-and-clutch-shooting-when-perception-and-reality-shake-hands/


The Shot Finder doesn’t let you query across multiple seasons, so I did it for this season and the previous two seasons and added up the numbers for 35 of the most prominent players in terms of overall fame/ability or their tendency to take these shots

The "shot finder" has tracked it since that season. He added up the ones since 2010/11.

amos1er
04-01-2013, 09:12 PM
but ya didn't give me the actual numbers...

I gave you a published article from someone who had researched the numbers which btw is a hell of a lot more than you have given me. All you have done is made outlandish statements as usual and when I called you out you made up some excuse to not have to respond to the evidence I provided. You sir are a far cry from posters like Chronz who actually has knowledge and can back his **** up. All you do is run your mouth and make smart *** comments. I have yet to see you make a valid point like ever...


I will put it very simple. I don't care about your claims.

Yet you feel the need to comment on my **** and make bold claims to which you never are able to provide any sort of supporting evidence of when called upon. If you don't care, then why even respond. The only response worth giving at that point would be a solid rebuttal, not some lame excuse. I am still waiting...


They are false many times, and protect Kobe.

Again...proof???


When the actual numbers aren't so kind.

Ughhhh...proof??? Where are these mythical "actual numbers" you speak of???


Backpedaling? Meh, more like, "not giving a **** about what you say because I don't believe a word of it, and it's easy to prove".

Excuses are like a$$holes...everyones got them.

If it's so easy to prove then......

amos1er
04-01-2013, 09:16 PM
The "shot finder" has tracked it since that season. He added up the ones since 2010/11.

My bad...guess it doesn't go back to 2001 after all...either way, Lebron didn't even play back then and the sample size of 3 seasons should be good enough.

Props for attacking the point I made instead of coming up with lame excuses like Hawkeye.

Hawkeye15
04-01-2013, 09:25 PM
lame excuses? Not really. You ignore the facts. Period. The Lakers offense takes a nosedive in last clock possessions, and Kobe shoots around 30%, below many other players. These are facts.

You wonder why I don't give a **** to respond to your posts. Actually, I don't think you do, I think it simply doesn't matter to you. Now you get my view on our relationship..

amos1er
04-01-2013, 09:42 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

http://chasing23.com/the-ball-dont-lie-but-sometimes-stats-do/

http://www.mixmakers.net/basketball/kobe-vs-lebron-last-10-seconds-clutch-stats/

Hawkeye15
04-01-2013, 09:44 PM
Yesterday, my fellow blogger and leader of the Kobe Hateration club

opening line in your "evidence".

Not caring about his opinion.

amos1er
04-01-2013, 09:45 PM
lame excuses? Not really. You ignore the facts. Period. The Lakers offense takes a nosedive in last clock possessions, and Kobe shoots around 30%, below many other players. These are facts.

You wonder why I don't give a **** to respond to your posts. Actually, I don't think you do, I think it simply doesn't matter to you. Now you get my view on our relationship..

The article I posted was with 5 seconds or less with the game on the line. Those stats you are referring to come from the last 2 minutes of the 4th quarter. I already know about those. Lebron has better numbers within 2 minutes, and Kobe is much better with the game on the line in the final seconds. Funny for a guy who doesn't give a **** about my posts, you sure respond to them enough. lol

amos1er
04-01-2013, 09:49 PM
http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/05/16/clutch-wars-lebron-vs-kobe-part-2-the-numbers-strike-back/

b@llhog24
04-01-2013, 09:54 PM
The "shot finder" has tracked it since that season. He added up the ones since 2010/11.

Lol.

b@llhog24
04-01-2013, 09:58 PM
The article I posted was with 5 seconds or less with the game on the line. Those stats you are referring to come from the last 2 minutes of the 4th quarter. I already know about those. Lebron has better numbers within 2 minutes, and Kobe is much better with the game on the line in the final seconds. Funny for a guy who doesn't give a **** about my posts, you sure respond to them enough. lol

Depends on how big the sample size is.

IgglesFanInCO
04-01-2013, 09:58 PM
I think that the nba isnt rigged at all :shrug:

both our perception of intentional favoritism and the issues used as evidence for that favoritism are just a result of human nature in a volatile setting

bagwell368
04-01-2013, 10:01 PM
There are at least 10 players who passed through the Nba, that are better than Bill Russell.

It's more than that.

TheIlladelph16
04-01-2013, 10:40 PM
There are more players on steroids/HGH than people think and it will come out eventually.

Kevin Garnett is vastly underrated because of his big mouth.

LeBron was coerced into the spectacle surrounding The Decision by the NBA/ESPN/his PR people.

Pretty much all of this. If people honestly don't believe Lebron was heavily influenced into doing the Decision, the publicity that thing has gotten to this day should be reason enough to see its possible. Ultimately it was his decision, but his handlers and outside factors pushed him towards that big time.


Guess my unpopular opinion is that certain athletes in the NBA could possibly be on PED's. It happened in nearly every other sport, so why is the NBA any different. Guess next year should be interesting...

Agreed. I think HGH is probably widely used in NBA at this point. I cant think of a player that it would shock me if they were on at least HGH.


I think that the nba isnt rigged at all :shrug:

both our perception of intentional favoritism and the issues used as evidence for that favoritism are just a result of human nature in a volatile setting

This is an interesting take which I think has merits. Everyone is subject to their own personal bias even if you aren't a supporter of the two teams involved. I think that most of the games people are convinced are rigged are also just a product of the high pressure situation and natural human mistakes by referees.

There are some instances that I could be swayed into thinking the NBA has some influence though...

PleaseBeNice
04-02-2013, 01:09 AM
michael jordan is vastly overrated

Hellcrooner
04-02-2013, 01:16 AM
The Kings deserved to lose back then and have 0 claim about the series, because
1 they were hacking a Shaq, so the FT differential was going to be obvious.
2 As far as i know Peja Stojakvic didnt have any whistle or grey suit hence, no ref ariballed the series winning three pointer.

PleaseBeNice
04-02-2013, 01:32 AM
The Kings deserved to lose back then and have 0 claim about the series, because
1 they were hacking a Shaq, so the FT differential was going to be obvious.
2 As far as i know Peja Stojakvic didnt have any whistle or grey suit hence, no ref ariballed the series winning three pointer.

I think the only disparity anyone talks about is the disparity in game 6, but not the series as a whole. Game 6 is brought up because of the 27 free throws the Lakers shot in that 4th quarter, eventually helping them to the win.

Hellcrooner
04-02-2013, 01:39 AM
I think the only disparity anyone talks about is the disparity in game 6, but not the series as a whole. Game 6 is brought up because of the 27 free throws the Lakers shot in that 4th quarter, eventually helping them to the win.


Yep, hack a Dwight at its finests.

Shaq has played in a ton of teams.

Just try to search how many of his free throw attempts were in the fourth quarter while he was relevant ( magic/lakers/Heat).

Chronz
04-02-2013, 01:55 AM
http://chasing23.com/the-ball-dont-lie-but-sometimes-stats-do/

http://www.mixmakers.net/basketball/kobe-vs-lebron-last-10-seconds-clutch-stats/

What do you know about Imadogg?

Vancity
04-02-2013, 02:14 AM
Russell is the GOAT because of being the most successful player in his era.
You can't compare different kinds of apples. You can only compare one kind and Russell is the best granny smith. Jordan could be the best gala

But if we making pies (teams that win championships) I take Russ.

Lakers + Giants
04-02-2013, 02:20 AM
What do you know about Imadogg?

Isn't he a poster on LN?

Chronz
04-02-2013, 02:34 AM
Isn't he a poster on LN?

Wouldn't doubt it, but he posts on the linked place as well. Great guy

lamzoka
04-02-2013, 02:44 AM
i don't think kobe is near as clutch as people think nor do i think his will to win is unmatched, i think those things are great exaggerations that none of his fans can ever prove without bad arguments,myths and fallacies.

this is so true.

lamzoka
04-02-2013, 02:45 AM
as crazy as it sound i think kobe bryant is overrated

DumDum
04-02-2013, 03:12 AM
Kobe is beyond overrated their isn't a word made up yet to Describe how overrated he is

amos1er
04-02-2013, 06:07 AM
What do you know about Imadogg?

I respect his opinion.

naps
04-02-2013, 06:23 AM
I don't believe that Jordan is the clear cut GOAT. Most people I know think I'm an idiot for saying it, but believe that Hakeem and Robinson, as well as Barkley and Malone has as much impact on the floor, if not more in some instances, than did Jordan and that Stockton is as deserving as a spot in the top ten all-time as anybody. Obviously I believe Magic and Bird were as good as Jordan in their respective primes, if not better, but injuries (back to Bird and HIV for Magic) cut their careers short. Russell, Kareem, Wilt and the Big O are all in the conversation as well.

I watched a lot of games back then, and as great as Jordan was (and he was great), he got a disgusting amount of calls. the ratings for a series featuring Jordan were far higher than the ratings without Jordan, and I believe that the NBA made sure Jordan was in the finals in several occasions when I don't think he would have been there without the officials. The truth of the matter, in my opinion, is that Jordan was a bigger brand than the NBA. People were Jordan fans, not basketball fans, and the NBA needed the Jordan fans. This was impart do to Jordan's immense skill, but it was also in part due to Nike's and their branding. I'm not saying Jordan wasn't amazing, he was. But I do not think he is the clear cut GOAT, though there is obviously a case for him, and I believe that the officials/NBA help him to no less than 3 of those 6 championships.


Also, Drexler is a grossly underrated player and if prime Drexler was playing against prime Kobe, he would show Kobe a thing or two.

Nice try. Now can you make a case for any of those as the GOAT instead of saying they have cases? I'll wait for you to try it.

amos1er
04-02-2013, 06:36 AM
Yesterday, my fellow blogger and leader of the Kobe Hateration club

opening line in your "evidence".

Not caring about his opinion.

Well...I think it's safe to say that you have been guilty of using the term "kobephile" on more than one occasion. (ehem...ehem...gross understatement)

Would you not agree that it is in turn fair to "not care about your opinion" based on this very logic?

Hows that for "evidence"... :D

LeperMessiah
04-02-2013, 06:45 AM
I gave you a published article from someone who had researched the numbers which btw is a hell of a lot more than you have given me. All you have done is made outlandish statements as usual and when I called you out you made up some excuse to not have to respond to the evidence I provided. You sir are a far cry from posters like Chronz who actually has knowledge and can back his **** up. All you do is run your mouth and make smart *** comments. I have yet to see you make a valid point like ever...



Yet you feel the need to comment on my **** and make bold claims to which you never are able to provide any sort of supporting evidence of when called upon. If you don't care, then why even respond. The only response worth giving at that point would be a solid rebuttal, not some lame excuse. I am still waiting...



Again...proof???



Ughhhh...proof??? Where are these mythical "actual numbers" you speak of???



Excuses are like a$$holes...everyones got them.

If it's so easy to prove then......

Cept your's full, with kobe's nuts.

amos1er
04-02-2013, 06:48 AM
Kobe is beyond overrated their isn't a word made up yet to Describe how overrated he is

Perhaps not, but I can sure make up a few words to describe this post...

amos1er
04-02-2013, 06:50 AM
Cept your's full, with kobe's nuts.

Well...based on this last post I think it's safe to say that your wit is on par with a prepubescent street thug.

Keep them zingers comin... :rolleyes:

D.O.N.
04-02-2013, 07:42 AM
I think Lebron should finish his career as a PF.

Once he's athleticism is gone (when he's 35+), He still would be able to hold his own as a full time PF.
I do think that he's working on his post game for years because of that.

Hes as tall as KLove and weights about the same so size shouldnt be a problem, and he could succeed playing like Love, of course hell never be a Love-like rebounder, but he has all the skill and the size. I can see 18 and 9 with 3-4 assist plus great Dfense even if he losses a step

Homer Pick: With a decent coach Marshawn Brooks could be a 6th man of the year type player
Homer Pick 2: Lopez and Blatche should play together more then just 2 minutes per game

IDK how unpopular these are, but i rarely hear them

FYL_McVeezy
04-02-2013, 11:03 AM
A large portion of NBA games are fixed...

Tim Duncan was the best player of the past generation (2000-2010) not Kobe...

True Sports Fan
04-03-2013, 01:38 PM
The Kings deserved to lose back then and have 0 claim about the series, because
1 they were hacking a Shaq, so the FT differential was going to be obvious.
2 As far as i know Peja Stojakvic didnt have any whistle or grey suit hence, no ref ariballed the series winning three pointer.
3. Mike Bibbys nose hurt Kobes elbow when Bibby was elbowed thus they called the foul on Mike Bibby's ****ing elbow

Come on now we all know that series was rigged, specifically game six. Even some Laker fans have admitted it. Surprising, I know.

Lakers + Giants
04-03-2013, 01:55 PM
All teams get calls every once in a while, doesn't mean games are rigged. I do believe we won in 02 because of donaghy tbh, but I also believe we lost game 2 vs the celtics in 08 because of the refs.

Chronz
04-03-2013, 02:53 PM
3. Mike Bibbys nose hurt Kobes elbow when Bibby was elbowed thus they called the foul on Mike Bibby's ****ing elbow

Come on now we all know that series was rigged, specifically game six. Even some Laker fans have admitted it. Surprising, I know.
Nah, just anti Laker fans who only want to look at 1 game when the refs made some poor calls against LA in the games prior

KnicksorBust
04-03-2013, 05:16 PM
There are players from the early NBA that would still be All-Stars in today's game.

Chris Paul is the GOAT PG.

Kobe is the 4th greatest player of all-time.

bagwell368
04-03-2013, 05:50 PM
A large portion of NBA games are fixed...

Tim Duncan was the best player of the past generation (2000-2010) not Kobe...

Without a doubt, although I'd creep back a couple of years to the start of their respective careers.

amos1er
04-03-2013, 05:51 PM
3. Mike Bibbys nose hurt Kobes elbow when Bibby was elbowed thus they called the foul on Mike Bibby's ****ing elbow

Come on now we all know that series was rigged, specifically game six. Even some Laker fans have admitted it. Surprising, I know.

Well, I can express my thoughts for you who clearly did not watch that series.

For one, during the whole series, the Kings shot 204 FTs and the Lakers shot 185 FTs.

In the controversial game 6, the Lakers shot 15 more FTs than the Kings did for the whole game. What is often mentioned by people who did actually watch the whole series is that game 6 was the reversal of game 5, which the Kings got the beneficial calls that sealed the win for them.

Also, to point out, the largest FT discrepancy came in game 3, where the Kings shot 20 more FTs than the Lakers did. In game 2, the Kings shot 13 more FTs than the Lakers did.

Up until game 6, it was believed by many players that the Kings were getting lots of help. Mobley mentioned this on the Best Damn Sports Show between games 5 and 6.

In the end, the Kings had a 10+ FT advantage in 3 of the 7 games. The Lakers only had 1 game where they shot more than a double digit against the Kings. Kind of odd when one team has a near prime Shaq and a prime Kobe, no?

Watch the whole series and then let's talk. Until then, it's useless to debate.

bagwell368
04-03-2013, 05:54 PM
How about Rondo has never cracked the top 4 PG's. Had one year as #5, and even not counting his meh rookie year he's about 8th on average in his career. His peak was 2008-2010, and his D has dropped a ton the past few years and his FT%, and 3PT% continues to be brutal. Finally the Celts played much better with Barbosa as the the teams PG, after Rondo was hurt.

The people that extoll him see him on National TV when he plays much better then local TV. Look at his triple double percentages and his energy output.

A vastly overrated player.

Kashmir13579
04-03-2013, 06:15 PM
Numbers show Kobe, and the Lakers are indeed not clutch, when speaking of the top guys/teams (Lakers take a nosedive in those situations). Find any article you wish. Facts are facts. Absolutely no way I put effort into responding to you dude, what is the point?

I'm in your corner. I haven't looked at the numbers in the last year or so, but last time i checked Kobe was well behind a lot of players in game winning FG%, and that Kobe's actual game winning FG% hovered around 25%, which is mediocre to poor when lined up against some of his peers.

Of course he has more game winners because he always takes them, which is why the Lakers offense sucks in the clutch. It isn't hard to understand, and is basically common knowledge to anyone not a Kobephile.

aman_13
04-03-2013, 06:41 PM
Superstar calls and I do believe the refs have agendas when officiating certain games.

amos1er
04-03-2013, 06:58 PM
I'm in your corner. I haven't looked at the numbers in the last year or so, but last time i checked Kobe was well behind a lot of players in game winning FG%, and that Kobe's actual game winning FG% hovered around 25%, which is mediocre to poor when lined up against some of his peers.

Of course he has more game winners because he always takes them, which is why the Lakers offense sucks in the clutch. It isn't hard to understand, and is basically common knowledge to anyone not a Kobephile.

Not only do you lack any sort of proof to substantiate your claims, you are 100% wrong on all accounts.

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/03/120305-clutchshooting.jpg

It's really annoying when people post false information to back up their bias propaganda. Lets at least try to keep it real people.

amos1er
04-03-2013, 07:03 PM
Nah, just anti Laker fans who only want to look at 1 game when the refs made some poor calls against LA in the games prior

Agreed. It's funny how people will make outlandish claims that the whole series was rigged for the Lakers when there was only one game that was in question. Aside from bringing up the free throw totals for the entire series again (which favor the Kings btw), lets not forget that the Lakers still had to win a game 7 on the road to beat the Kings that year.

rocket
04-03-2013, 07:09 PM
Jose Caledron is drunk when he plays

amos1er
04-03-2013, 07:19 PM
All teams get calls every once in a while, doesn't mean games are rigged. I do believe we won in 02 because of donaghy tbh, but I also believe we lost game 2 vs the celtics in 08 because of the refs.

Really???

So Donaghy helped us win game 7 on the road???

Last I checked, Donaghy didn't even officiate game 6, let alone any game in that series.

If you actually read about Donaghy's allegations, they don't say anything about handing the Lakers that series, they just said that it was in the best interest of the league for that series go 7 games.

http://www.82games.com/lakerskingsgame6.htm

http://www.82games.com/lakerskingscalls.htm

Considering that you are a fellow Laker fan, you should at least have the right facts.

Kashmir13579
04-03-2013, 07:22 PM
Not only do you lack any sort of proof to substantiate your claims, you are 100% wrong on all accounts.

http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/03/120305-clutchshooting.jpg

It's really annoying when people post false information to back up their bias propaganda. Lets at least try to keep it real people.

What are these numbers? Please provide context.

Kashmir13579
04-03-2013, 07:27 PM
Honestly Amos1er, Hawkeye is absolutely correct when he says we are retreading old ground. The Kobe clutch myth has been put to bed many times over.

amos1er
04-03-2013, 07:27 PM
What are these numbers? Please provide context.

http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/03/04/kobe-bryant-lebron-james-and-clutch-shooting-when-perception-and-reality-shake-hands/


Luckily for us, Basketball-Reference.com recently launched their “Shot Finder” which claims to track every shot from the 2000-01 season through to this season — up to the February 28 games, as of this writing. The table below shows the results of my Shot Finder query with the following criteria: regular season or playoffs, fourth quarter or overtime, 0:05 or less remaining, shot to tie or to take the lead. The Shot Finder doesn’t let you query across multiple seasons, so I did it for this season and the previous two seasons and added up the numbers for 35 of the most prominent players in terms of overall fame/ability or their tendency to take these shots. If you think I excluded a worthy player, feel free to look him up yourself.

Ironic how you ask me to provide context when your original post claimed Kobe to be 25% in clutch situations without any sort of evidence of support. :rolleyes:

Faneik
04-03-2013, 07:29 PM
Red Auerbach is the best coach in the history of the NBA

amos1er
04-03-2013, 07:32 PM
Honestly Amos1er, Hawkeye is absolutely correct when he says we are retreading old ground. The Kobe clutch myth has been put to bed many times over.

Yet another opinion statement with nothing to back it up.

Funny still how you are acting like what your saying is canon even though you provide nothing to substantiate it other than your opinion. It just annoys me because then other people are going to read this crap and then they will go around and act like they have definitive proof of some BS allegation as well.

mngopher35
04-03-2013, 07:55 PM
http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/03/04/kobe-bryant-lebron-james-and-clutch-shooting-when-perception-and-reality-shake-hands/



Ironic how you ask me to provide context when your original post claimed Kobe to be 25% in clutch situations without any sort of evidence of support. :rolleyes:

I had no idea what you had posted either so before this post I went to bball reference and did a search every year 2001-present. The guidlines were 10 seconds or less remaining shot to tie or take the lead.

Kobe was 36/126 since 2001 in these situations, or a 28.6% shooting. If you believe there is an error feel free to check, it doesn't take long. (Use link below and go to show/hide search query and switch years)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2013&is_playoffs=&team_id=LAL&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=0&time_remain_seconds=10&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&is_tying=Y&is_go_ahead=Y&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg


Edit: I found the major difference. In 2010 kobe was 6/11 in these situation (7/14 I believe according to my situation). He was amazing that year and that is what creates the huge jump in that number (especially with a 3 year sample size) compared to when I did my search.

AWC713
04-03-2013, 08:08 PM
I don't believe that Jordan is the clear cut GOAT. Most people I know think I'm an idiot for saying it, but believe that Hakeem and Robinson, as well as Barkley and Malone has as much impact on the floor, if not more in some instances, than did Jordan and that Stockton is as deserving as a spot in the top ten all-time as anybody. Obviously I believe Magic and Bird were as good as Jordan in their respective primes, if not better, but injuries (back to Bird and HIV for Magic) cut their careers short. Russell, Kareem, Wilt and the Big O are all in the conversation as well.

I watched a lot of games back then, and as great as Jordan was (and he was great), he got a disgusting amount of calls. the ratings for a series featuring Jordan were far higher than the ratings without Jordan, and I believe that the NBA made sure Jordan was in the finals in several occasions when I don't think he would have been there without the officials. The truth of the matter, in my opinion, is that Jordan was a bigger brand than the NBA. People were Jordan fans, not basketball fans, and the NBA needed the Jordan fans. This was impart do to Jordan's immense skill, but it was also in part due to Nike's and their branding. I'm not saying Jordan wasn't amazing, he was. But I do not think he is the clear cut GOAT, though there is obviously a case for him, and I believe that the officials/NBA help him to no less than 3 of those 6 championships.


Also, Drexler is a grossly underrated player and if prime Drexler was playing against prime Kobe, he would show Kobe a thing or two.

great post.

b@llhog24
04-03-2013, 08:10 PM
There are players from the early NBA that would still be All-Stars in today's game.

Chris Paul is the GOAT PG.

Kobe is the 4th greatest player of all-time.

That's another one that I have. Maybe not accolades wise, but individually (especially if he never got injured) I think he has a pretty good case.

Kashmir13579
04-03-2013, 10:02 PM
Yet another opinion statement with nothing to back it up.

Funny still how you are acting like what your saying is canon even though you provide nothing to substantiate it other than your opinion. It just annoys me because then other people are going to read this crap and then they will go around and act like they have definitive proof of some BS allegation as well.

What you don't get is we don't need a canon at this point. The burden of proof is back on the Kobephiles and it has been for YEARS.

The numbers you provided me are taken from three seasons of the writers choosing. The sample size is manipulated to a point that excludes shot attempts people other than you find to be relevant.

Thats why there are boatloads of articles and 4th quarters stats that confidently suggest otherwise. You've already seen those though, haven't you? The author of the piece you provided even questions the validity of his own sample size.

--23--
04-03-2013, 10:28 PM
Tim Duncan was the best player of the past generation (2000-2010) not Kobe...

Agree, I would say both Shaq and Duncan were the best players during that span.

Aust
04-03-2013, 10:40 PM
A lot of things are fixed

Oh, and David Stern is a horrible commissioner

amos1er
04-03-2013, 10:50 PM
I had no idea what you had posted either so before this post I went to bball reference and did a search every year 2001-present. The guidlines were 10 seconds or less remaining shot to tie or take the lead.

Kobe was 36/126 since 2001 in these situations, or a 28.6% shooting. If you believe there is an error feel free to check, it doesn't take long. (Use link below and go to show/hide search query and switch years)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2013&is_playoffs=&team_id=LAL&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=0&time_remain_seconds=10&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&is_tying=Y&is_go_ahead=Y&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg


Edit: I found the major difference. In 2010 kobe was 6/11 in these situation (7/14 I believe according to my situation). He was amazing that year and that is what creates the huge jump in that number (especially with a 3 year sample size) compared to when I did my search.

First off, thank you for actually responding with something intelligent and not trying to pass off your own opinions as fact. (cough...cough...Kashmir)

I ran your scenario and found the following conflicts:

- In the article I posted it was 5 seconds or less.

- Also, it looks to me like your query only did it for 2012/2013...it has Kobe going 2/7 from the field which is 28.6%.

Perhaps I am making a mistake, but when I clicked on your link, it appeared that it was only for the 2012/2013 season and it had Kobe at 2/7 in those situations.

LeperMessiah
04-03-2013, 10:50 PM
Well...based on this last post I think it's safe to say that your wit is on par with a prepubescent street thug.

Keep them zingers comin... :rolleyes:

Stupid posts will often give you stupid responses.

amos1er
04-03-2013, 10:59 PM
Stupid posts will often give you stupid responses.

So are you saying that make a habit allowing people to bring you down to their level?

If you perceive someone to be acting stupid, that gives you an excuse to act that way as well?

If someone jumps of a bridge then it's ok for you to follow?

LeperMessiah
04-03-2013, 11:01 PM
So are you saying that make a habit allowing people to bring you down to their level?

If you perceive someone to be acting stupid, that gives you an excuse to act that way as well?

If someone jumps of a bridge then it's ok for you to follow?

Yup.

amos1er
04-03-2013, 11:17 PM
Yup.

Cool. Just checkin.

97NYer
04-03-2013, 11:34 PM
Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell would be role players in today's NBA, Michael Jordan was hungover and did not have the flu, NBA instructs officials to favor larger market teams.

amos1er
04-03-2013, 11:47 PM
Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell would be role players in today's NBA,

lol not even close.


Michael Jordan was hungover and did not have the flu,

Interesting theory. Could be possible. Impossible to prove though.


NBA instructs officials to favor larger market teams.

I agree, though I feel that they do not get direct orders as there would be too much direct evidence left behind. Rather they are showed film of "what to focus on" implying how the NBA wants the game to be called. The officials that reciprocate the best are given the most important games in the playoffs despite a horrible track record of poor calls. They don't seem to favor larger markets as much as they do star power. That is what really sells. The NBA is a superstar driven league these days.

mightybosstone
04-04-2013, 12:10 AM
1. Kobe Bryant may be an all-time 10 player, but he was never the greatest player in the league at any given point in his career.
2. When his career is over, Lebron will be seen as the second greatest players in the history of the NBA.
3. The lottery is not rigged.
4. Officials are asked to favor superstars, but officiating is not generally rigged.
5. Reggie Miller was an excellent jump shooter, but history remembers him as a much far better player than he was. He's one of the most overrated players in NBA history.
6. Hakeem's Rockets in 95-97 could have beaten Jordan's Bulls had they ever faced in the Finals.
7. Even with his superior stats, I still wouldn't take Wilt over Russell.
8. Rondo doesn't belong in the top 5 PG discussion, because his horrible offensive efficiency as a scorer nearly negates all of the positive things he does distributing the ball.
9. The league is not "softer" than it was 20 years ago. Players are just faster and more athletic now than they were then. The 3-pointer has just changed the style of basketball, spreading the floor and putting more emphasis on bigs who can shoot than on the low post monsters of the 60s-90s.
10. Lebron's decision was the logical choice. Very few all-time greats won titles without superstar teammates, and if you're going to judge him for his decision, you should judge nearly every other superstar in the history of the league.

mngopher35
04-04-2013, 12:22 AM
First off, thank you for actually responding with something intelligent and not trying to pass off your own opinions as fact. (cough...cough...Kashmir)

I ran your scenario and found the following conflicts:

- In the article I posted it was 5 seconds or less.

- Also, it looks to me like your query only did it for 2012/2013...it has Kobe going 2/7 from the field which is 28.6%.

Perhaps I am making a mistake, but when I clicked on your link, it appeared that it was only for the 2012/2013 season and it had Kobe at 2/7 in those situations.

Yes, you can only do it one year at a time, I tried to explain you need to search through all the other years individually and add it up (although not very clearly). The numbers that I got were 36/121. I know now that yours was talking about was 5 secs or less, but at the time I was looking I didn't so I used what I thought it might be. 10 seconds isn't really that bad of an example of clutch though, so I think that the number still stands.

If you click that link and then just click on the red text "show/hide search form" right above the orange tab that says query results (i specified team as lakers so it's easy to find kobe each year). Then find the 2012-2013 season and you can search it year by year to get all of the data which came out to the numbers I provided. If you wanted you could also change it to 5 seconds or less and see what you came up with.

LeperMessiah
04-04-2013, 12:48 AM
Cool. Just checkin.

Word.

jayjay33
04-04-2013, 01:52 AM
My top ten

1. Jordan is not better than hakeem.

2. Shaq did not "carry" Kobe.

3. Lebron was afraid in the finals against Dallas.

4. There is no way on hell Stockton, was better than Isaiah.

5. Charles Barkley is the greatest rebounder of all time.

6. The dream team would lose to the redeem team.

7. Paul pierce is better than Larry bird.

8. The pacers would have won the chip the year of "the palace".

9. Earl the pearl is in the top 25.

10. Baron Davis at his peak with the hornets, is the best two way pg I have ever seen.

Aust
04-04-2013, 05:26 AM
1. Kobe Bryant may be an all-time 10 player, but he was never the greatest player in the league at any given point in his career.
2. When his career is over, Lebron will be seen as the second greatest players in the history of the NBA.
3. The lottery is not rigged.
4. Officials are asked to favor superstars, but officiating is not generally rigged.
5. Reggie Miller was an excellent jump shooter, but history remembers him as a much far better player than he was. He's one of the most overrated players in NBA history.
6. Hakeem's Rockets in 95-97 could have beaten Jordan's Bulls had they ever faced in the Finals.
7. Even with his superior stats, I still wouldn't take Wilt over Russell.
8. Rondo doesn't belong in the top 5 PG discussion, because his horrible offensive efficiency as a scorer nearly negates all of the positive things he does distributing the ball.
9. The league is not "softer" than it was 20 years ago. Players are just faster and more athletic now than they were then. The 3-pointer has just changed the style of basketball, spreading the floor and putting more emphasis on bigs who can shoot than on the low post monsters of the 60s-90s.
10. Lebron's decision was the logical choice. Very few all-time greats won titles without superstar teammates, and if you're going to judge him for his decision, you should judge nearly every other superstar in the history of the league.

Interesting list. Well said.

PhillyFaninLA
04-04-2013, 06:36 AM
This is a place for unpopular opinions, what compells you to put them down when everyone who posts is already admitting to be the minority?

I swear your the worst poster Ive ever come across in my stay here

Look at his profile....
Total Posts
Total Posts: 2,271.Posts Per Day: 20.08

20 posts a day means you have nothing else in your life. He just trolls here and doesn't say or support anything. He just baits people and makes Kobe and Laker fans look worse.

LeperMessiah
04-04-2013, 06:39 AM
Look at his profile....
Total Posts
Total Posts: 2,271.Posts Per Day: 20.08

20 posts a day means you have nothing else in your life. He just trolls here and doesn't say or support anything. He just baits people and makes Kobe and Laker fans look worse.
They do that just fine on their own.

Sportfan
04-04-2013, 06:55 AM
Jeff Green is a top 10 SF

GiantsSwaGG
04-04-2013, 07:02 AM
Well...based on this last post I think it's safe to say that your wit is on par with a prepubescent street thug.

Keep them zingers comin... :rolleyes:

:facepalm:

krrys11
04-04-2013, 08:00 AM
IMO :

Players from different times should not be compared same as players who played at different positions should not be compared, prime example LeBron and Shaq or Isiah and CP3

NBA protects their stars by calling even the smallest touches on them while a hard fould would not be called on a 6th man.

MJ have been told to retire by NBA.

And going back to my first opinion: THERE IS NO REAL BASKETBALL GOAT

Also MVP awards are given more as a popularity contest.

ewing
04-04-2013, 08:46 AM
Mike Dantonio knows more about basketball then anyone on this forum

Kobe and LeBron are both very good players

mightybosstone
04-04-2013, 08:57 AM
1. Jordan is not better than hakeem.
I'm the biggest Hakeem fan I know, and even I don't believe this nonsense.


2. Shaq did not "carry" Kobe.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. Are you saying Kobe would have five rings without Shaq?


3. Lebron was afraid in the finals against Dallas.
How is this an unpopular opinion? You will find few NBA fans who believe he didn't choke in that series.


4. There is no way on hell Stockton, was better than Isaiah.
Depends on what you're arguing. Stockton was the superior distributor and far more efficient player, but Isaiah was a much more clutch scorer in big moments and probably a better defender. I certainly wouldn't say there's "no way in hell" Stockton is better, though.


5. Charles Barkley is the greatest rebounder of all time.
If we're talking best rebounder per height, then you've got a case because I doubt there are any other guys his size who came anywhere close to his numbers. But the greatest rebounder of all-time? That's statistically inaccurate. Wilt has the record for all-time rebounds and career RPG, while Rodman's TRB% is far better than any other player in NBA history.


6. The dream team would lose to the redeem team.
This is a really good one, and I think you could make a legitimate case for this.


7. Paul pierce is better than Larry bird.
Okay.... If you're going to say something crazy like this, I'd LOVE to see you back it up with something.


8. The pacers would have won the chip the year of "the palace".
Why? They got beat by the Pistons in the playoffs the previous year with essentially the same team minus Jackson, still got beat the Pistons in the playoffs that year and would have had to face a prime Tim Duncan in the Finals. How do they win the Finals if the brawl never happened?


9. Earl the pearl is in the top 25.
Based on what? He was a star in Baltimore before coming to New York and then played second fiddle to Frazier for the Knicks when he won his title. He played in only four All-Star games and made only one All-NBA team. What separates him from wing players like McGrady, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, etc. who have better career numbers?


10. Baron Davis at his peak with the hornets, is the best two way pg I have ever seen.
I loved Baron in his prime, but how about some love for two-way guys like Gary Payton, Chris Paul and prime Deron Williams? Also, Baron was an insanely inefficient volume scorer, so I have a hard time buying this argument.

TheIlladelph16
04-04-2013, 09:45 AM
1. Kobe Bryant may be an all-time 10 player, but he was never the greatest player in the league at any given point in his career.
2. When his career is over, Lebron will be seen as the second greatest players in the history of the NBA.
3. The lottery is not rigged.
4. Officials are asked to favor superstars, but officiating is not generally rigged.
5. Reggie Miller was an excellent jump shooter, but history remembers him as a much far better player than he was. He's one of the most overrated players in NBA history.
6. Hakeem's Rockets in 95-97 could have beaten Jordan's Bulls had they ever faced in the Finals.
7. Even with his superior stats, I still wouldn't take Wilt over Russell.
8. Rondo doesn't belong in the top 5 PG discussion, because his horrible offensive efficiency as a scorer nearly negates all of the positive things he does distributing the ball.
9. The league is not "softer" than it was 20 years ago. Players are just faster and more athletic now than they were then. The 3-pointer has just changed the style of basketball, spreading the floor and putting more emphasis on bigs who can shoot than on the low post monsters of the 60s-90s.
10. Lebron's decision was the logical choice. Very few all-time greats won titles without superstar teammates, and if you're going to judge him for his decision, you should judge nearly every other superstar in the history of the league.

100% this. Agreed with all of it.