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View Full Version : Who is the next unknown star who is already in the nba?



Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 06:37 PM
I haven't watch alot of bball this season work, life, etc. but I wanna know what guys that have star potential and those guys who are on the verge of breaking out but aren't talk about around casual nba fans.

We know the guys everyone talks about on here its time we gave praise to those who dont normally get it. Weither it be future impact players guys who shine when they play but dont always get the minutes.

Whos the next guys to watchout for he can be on your favorite team or a guy you just think, wow why doesnt coach play him more I call it the kenneth faried,paul george award lol jk.

I notice a few guys
jimmy butler bulls
Chandler parsons rockets
Chris copeland ny
Earl clark la

Who has caught your eye?

cantstopthee
03-30-2013, 06:45 PM
Bias aside, Andre Drummond is going to be an All-Star. He's about to be in the top tier within a few seasons.

amos1er
03-30-2013, 06:45 PM
If I knew, I would be trying my best to be their agent right now.

SeoulBeatz
03-30-2013, 06:46 PM
I haven't watch alot of bball this season work, life, etc. but I wanna know what guys that have star potential and those guys who are on the verge of breaking out but aren't talk about around casual nba fans.

We know the guys everyone talks about on here its time we gave praise to those who dont normally get it. Weither it be future impact players guys who shine when they play but dont always get the minutes.

Whos the next guys to watchout for he can be on your favorite team or a guy you just think, wow why doesnt coach play him more I call it the kenneth faried,paul george award lol jk.

I notice a few guys
jimmy butler bulls
Chandler parsons rockets
Chris copeland ny
Earl clark la

Who has caught your eye?

Well none of these guys are stars or will be stars.

But all of them could be (or already are) great role players, especially Parsons or Butler.

Out of all the players you listed, Parsons has the most star potential, but let's be real now...

mdm692
03-30-2013, 06:50 PM
Wes Johnson seems to be gettingbit together in PHX.

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 06:52 PM
Bias aside, Andre Drummond is going to be an All-Star. He's about to be in the top tier within a few seasons.

I hear good things about him but havent seen him play ...is he legit like can him a monroe co exist or does one need to be traded for them to be relevant again the team that is ?

SeoulBeatz
03-30-2013, 06:55 PM
I hear good things about him but havent seen him play ...is he legit like can him a monroe co exist or does one need to be traded for them to be relevant again the team that is ?

he is legit. Drummond will be a beast. The per 40 stats are undeniable/ the physical tools he already has at just 20 years old are ridiculous.

WARRIORS@GR
03-30-2013, 07:00 PM
Mike James..all star potential.

Matrix3132
03-30-2013, 07:05 PM
Not really unknown but Damian Lillard has a chance. Even though he's having a pretty good year, I think their system seems to be holding him back, he seems to defer to teammates a lot but I think he can be a top 5 point guard in a few years

GunFactor187
03-30-2013, 07:07 PM
Kawai (sp?) Leonard

b@llhog24
03-30-2013, 07:08 PM
There's no "unknown" guy in the nba, who's gonna be a star imo.

TheNumber37
03-30-2013, 07:14 PM
Who comes to mind:

Damion Lillard (fairly unknown)
Jimmy Butler
Khwai (?) Lenoard
Chandler Parsons
Shumpert
Vuviec (?) Magic Center

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 07:18 PM
really theres always a couple guys that emerge every year that just take that next step...the milsaps,georges,lins,lawsons,gallinaros,etc etc that just a couple years ago weren't on anyones radar. So u must be joking right.

Blitzbolt
03-30-2013, 07:24 PM
Khwai is nothing but a average player on a good system.

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 07:25 PM
I hear about lillard but I dont think he is unknown, I think alot of ppl have him as roy am i rght?

b@llhog24
03-30-2013, 07:25 PM
really theres always a couple guys that emerge every year that just take that next step...the milsaps,georges,lins,lawsons,gallinaros,etc etc that just a couple years ago weren't on anyones radar. So u must be joking right.

So you're talking about the casual fan then? And I wouldn't really consider any of those guys stars this year cept Gallo and PG (Admittedly I didn't see him progressing this quick, but Granger being out kinda led to a "trial by fire" approach by the Pacers).

b@llhog24
03-30-2013, 07:27 PM
Khwai is nothing but a average player on a good system.

:pity:


I hear about lillard but I dont think he is unknown, I think alot of ppl have him as roy am i rght?

See this is exactly what I meant, Lillard has star potential but most people know it.

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 07:35 PM
So you're talking about the casual fan then? And I wouldn't really consider any of those guys stars this year cept Gallo and PG (Admittedly I didn't see him progressing this quick, but Granger being out kinda led to a "trial by fire" approach by the Pacers).

Yeah exactly we on the same page ..i dont mean guys like curry they get love especially after the ny game him lillard blow up most see it. But george I noticed him early last yr being division foes he showed that before granger got hurt this year he cemented it.

SeoulBeatz
03-30-2013, 07:38 PM
really theres always a couple guys that emerge every year that just take that next step...the milsaps,georges,lins,lawsons,gallinaros,etc etc that just a couple years ago weren't on anyones radar. So u must be joking right.

Well we must have completely definitions of what a star is then.

Paul George is well on his way, but he was always on my radar as a potential star.

Lawson, Gallinari, and Lin are not stars in any sense of the word.

They are solid starters/role players but not stars.

Stars are people with all-star potential IMO.

Yumboldt
03-30-2013, 07:45 PM
Jr swish

asandhu23
03-30-2013, 07:46 PM
If they are in the NBA, they aren't "unknown".

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 07:48 PM
Lin..no but gallo and lawson ...that denver team has fifty wins u dont think one or both isn't reached or reaching that level?

Yumboldt
03-30-2013, 07:48 PM
Isaiah Thomas

ChiSox219
03-30-2013, 07:55 PM
Greg Smith

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 07:55 PM
If they are in the NBA, they aren't "unknown".

Lol not in that way ...i mean they wouldnt be recognized by an avg. Nba fan not many ppl on here talk bout butler,parsons,drummond,avery bradley,etc.

Unless u followed that team you wouldnt know who they played for.

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 07:59 PM
Greg Smith

Who?

SanAntonioSpurs23
03-30-2013, 08:07 PM
Khwai is nothing but a average player on a good system.

Kawhi****

You must really dislike Leonard, everytime his name is mentioned you say something negative.

Leonard has the potential to be an all star no doubt. Hes already above average defensively, and hes improving offensively even though hes a 4th option.

The best thing about him is his work ethic and hes even said he wants to be great.

farren.louis
03-30-2013, 08:13 PM
Al horford

D-Leethal
03-30-2013, 08:15 PM
Jr swish

:nod:

TheTreys
03-30-2013, 08:16 PM
J.R. Smith, O.J. Mayo, Damian Lillard, Ricky Rubio, Stephon Curry, and Tyreke Evans if he ended up playing for a different team.

D-Leethal
03-30-2013, 08:16 PM
I think Bradley Beal is going to be a star.

D-Leethal
03-30-2013, 08:19 PM
J.R. Smith, O.J. Mayo, Damian Lillard, Ricky Rubio, Stephon Curry, and Tyreke Evans if he ended up playing for a different team.

I would have said OJ Mayo was perfect before this season but he hasn't really done what I thought he would have this season. Hes been solid and his percentages are way up but I was expecting like 22ppg and an all star breakout year. Not sure he gets there anymore.

D-Leethal
03-30-2013, 08:20 PM
Andre Drummond is another one.

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 08:20 PM
Al horford

He is known but definitely talk about very lil...he would be a star on another team than iso atl.

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 08:24 PM
Andre Drummond is another one.

Yeah alot have mention him...bradley beal thats a good one.

FraziersKnicks
03-30-2013, 08:29 PM
Kawai (sp?) Leonard


Who comes to mind:

Damion Lillard (fairly unknown)
Jimmy Butler
Khwai (?) Lenoard
Chandler Parsons
Shumpert
Vuviec (?) Magic Center


Khwai is nothing but a average player on a good system.

Damn, you guys are butchering the **** out of his name... Judging from your spelling, he must be pretty unknown to you

ChitownSports16
03-30-2013, 08:30 PM
Jimmy Buckets :)

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 08:35 PM
Jimmy Buckets :)

Yeah it would be nice to see him next to rose

ThaDubs
03-30-2013, 08:37 PM
Ilyasova?

ChiSox219
03-30-2013, 08:38 PM
Who?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithgr02.html

ThaDubs
03-30-2013, 08:38 PM
Yeah it would be nice to see him next to rose

:drool:

farren.louis
03-30-2013, 08:47 PM
Patric Beverly (Houston Rockets)

John Walls Era
03-30-2013, 08:55 PM
Bias aside, Andre Drummond is going to be an All-Star. He's about to be in the top tier within a few seasons.

please just stop it. hes so raw.

Utd7
03-30-2013, 09:02 PM
Jimmy Butler, Iman Shumpert, Vucevic, and Kawhi (I think he evolves into the franchise player when Duncan departs)

RipCity32
03-30-2013, 09:03 PM
Drummond

Gators123
03-30-2013, 09:08 PM
please just stop it. hes so raw.

Yeah hes very raw, and hes already playing great. Scary.


Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2012-13 19 DET NBA C 51 1005 22.6 .571 .601 16.0 27.3 21.5 4.0 2.6 6.8 11.2 17.1 114 99 1.8 1.9 3.7 .178

And hes averaging almost 14 points, 14 rebounds, 3 blocks per 36 minutes.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-30-2013, 09:38 PM
Do people honestly think Jimmy Butler or Iman Shumpert are going to be all-star talented players?

As for my answer, Beal will be an all-star within the next 2 seasons. Vucevic is good, I could see him being a top 10 at whatever position he plays during his prime and make an ASG or two at the peak of his career. Outside of that I think everyone knows who the obvious are.

lol, please
03-30-2013, 09:48 PM
It's obviously Curry.

D-Leethal
03-30-2013, 10:00 PM
Do people honestly think Jimmy Butler or Iman Shumpert are going to be all-star talented players?

As for my answer, Beal will be an all-star within the next 2 seasons. Vucevic is good, I could see him being a top 10 at whatever position he plays during his prime and make an ASG or two at the peak of his career. Outside of that I think everyone knows who the obvious are.

I really can't think of any outside of Beal and Drummond who I really see as legit top 5 positional players down the line that aren't already hyped up like an Anthony Davis or aren't already there like a Steph Curry.

I think too many people are listing guys who are already stars or guys who have future-stud-role-player written all over them like Butler and Shump who don't really have the foundation for all star potential.

69centers
03-30-2013, 10:13 PM
Jeff Green

Kenneth Faried

Chandler Parsons

AntiG
03-30-2013, 10:19 PM
Jeff Green.

John Walls Era
03-30-2013, 10:19 PM
Jeff Green

Kenneth Faried

Chandler Parsons

He had his chance.


Yeah hes very raw, and hes already playing great. Scary.


Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2012-13 19 DET NBA C 51 1005 22.6 .571 .601 16.0 27.3 21.5 4.0 2.6 6.8 11.2 17.1 114 99 1.8 1.9 3.7 .178

And hes averaging almost 14 points, 14 rebounds, 3 blocks per 36 minutes.

The Per 36 is garbage. I remember when Portland fans made a case for Oden using that. Oden would've avged 7 fouls in 36 minutes.

He might be a better DeAndre Jordan eventually, but limited on offense (limited is understated).

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 10:21 PM
Im surprise no one has said waiters and I guess we all giving up on derrick williams...i thought he would be so much better.

Blink
03-30-2013, 10:22 PM
Gram

king4day
03-30-2013, 10:23 PM
If we're going to throw around Earl Clark's name in this category, then I'll throw around PJ Tucker. He may never be an all star but by next season, everyone will know his name.
OKC apparently wanted him in a trade earlier this year. Not bad for a guy who spent the last bunch of years overseas.

kdspurman
03-30-2013, 10:23 PM
Kawhi****

You must really dislike Leonard, everytime his name is mentioned you say something negative.

Leonard has the potential to be an all star no doubt. Hes already above average defensively, and hes improving offensively even though hes a 4th option.

The best thing about him is his work ethic and hes even said he wants to be great.

He's pretty clueless when he talks about the Spurs. He just says some random stuff that is so off base, most times it's not even worth responding to.

Kawhi is going to be special. I think a lot of people who follow him and have seen the improvements in his first "real" season.

And I agree, his work ethic and "wanting" to be great is special. He's in the right place

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 10:24 PM
Jeff Green.

Thats a good one too he seems to be finding his groove these past few weeks.

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 10:28 PM
Earl clark I think with his extended role was excellent in la shouldve left him in the starting lineup. Gasol off bench

Jayrich28
03-30-2013, 10:30 PM
Jj hickson?

Gators123
03-30-2013, 10:30 PM
He had his chance.



The Per 36 is garbage. I remember when Portland fans made a case for Oden using that. Oden would've avged 7 fouls in 36 minutes.

He might be a better DeAndre Jordan eventually, but limited on offense (limited is understated).

:laugh2:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=drumman01&y1=2013&p2=jordade01&y2=2013

Chucky Woods
03-30-2013, 10:45 PM
Larry Sanders will be a top center in the NBA one day book it! I also believe Butler has the tools to be great.

ChiSox219
03-30-2013, 10:50 PM
He had his chance.



The Per 36 is garbage. I remember when Portland fans made a case for Oden using that. Oden would've avged 7 fouls in 36 minutes.

He might be a better DeAndre Jordan eventually, but limited on offense (limited is understated).

Anyone who watched Oden in Portland saw he was going to be great, the Per 36 numbers just supported that. Plenty of young bigs have gone from perpetual foul trouble to sound defenders. Drummond commits 3.9 fouls per 36 minutes so there goes that theory. Drummond is a smart player who understands floor spacing and that allows him to get lots of easy looks that he converts at a high percentage. Drummond ranks 23rd in the P&R and he's an elite offensive rebounder but I suppose you want him to hit 15 foot fadeaways off the block before calling his offense anything better than limited :rolleyes:.

Gators123
03-30-2013, 10:53 PM
Larry Sanders will be a top center in the NBA one day book it! I also believe Butler has the tools to be great.

:nod:

And Whats up with Henson? Why doesn't he get more minutes?

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-30-2013, 10:56 PM
I really can't think of any outside of Beal and Drummond who I really see as legit top 5 positional players down the line that aren't already hyped up like an Anthony Davis or aren't already there like a Steph Curry.

I think too many people are listing guys who are already stars or guys who have future-stud-role-player written all over them like Butler and Shump who don't really have the foundation for all star potential.

Exactly. People in this thread are either don't know what a majority of these players ceilings are, have a very loose term of being a "star" or think that there will be 30 man all star rosters in the future.

tr3ymill3r
03-30-2013, 10:59 PM
Chandler Parsons will be a household name if the Rockets get out of the first round of the playoffs.

LINsation
03-30-2013, 11:00 PM
Drummond.

Blitzbolt
03-30-2013, 11:01 PM
1.The Magic Center I don't know his name but he will be a top 5 center.
2.Jeff Teague in my opinion has the tools but its just me.
3.Wall I think he is already a star

LINsation
03-30-2013, 11:02 PM
Thompson is kinda known but hes scary good next to curry

D-Leethal
03-30-2013, 11:06 PM
Does Tristan Thompson have that type of potential? Haven't seen enough of him but he could be a candidate.

jon32
03-30-2013, 11:09 PM
Klay Thompson I guess

My two are Jonas Valanciunas and Andre Drummond......Jonas will easily be a top 5 center in 2-3 years and probably top 3 beyond that, same with Drummond.

LINsation
03-30-2013, 11:10 PM
I meant the golden state thompson

LINsation
03-30-2013, 11:10 PM
Also vasquez is a stud. Just needs a little more help

Utd7
03-30-2013, 11:31 PM
Don't sleep on Harrison Barnes.

Chucky Woods
03-30-2013, 11:44 PM
Alot of people are high on Drummond what's the deal? I don't watch many pistons games

FraziersKnicks
03-31-2013, 12:09 AM
It's obviously Curry.

Yes, because Stephen Curry is unknown :rolleyes:

You might as well have just said Festus Ezeli

FraziersKnicks
03-31-2013, 12:10 AM
Larry Sanders is a good call, although he's second in the league in BPG. Hardly unknown.

Bramaca
03-31-2013, 12:25 AM
Surprised I've only heard one mention on here of Valanciunas. He is going to be one of the top centers in the league if the Raps actually start giving him the ball at some point.

Drummond is another good one. Beal seems like he could be really good. And although I don't see Tyreke Evans as an unknown I think if he gets in the right situation he could break out as a star player.

SeoulBeatz
03-31-2013, 12:43 AM
Lin..no but gallo and lawson ...that denver team has fifty wins u dont think one or both isn't reached or reaching that level?

Nope.
They're a damn good team without any stars. Iguodala is the closest, but neither Gallo and Lawson will ever be all-stars nor are they players who are prime 1st or even 2nd options. So no, they're no stars. Damn good role players though.

mjt20mik
03-31-2013, 01:49 AM
Tobias Harris

SlimKid
03-31-2013, 02:04 AM
Moochie Norris

rocket
03-31-2013, 02:24 AM
Alot of people are high on Drummond what's the deal? I don't watch many pistons games

Just go look at his per stats...

KaganRS
03-31-2013, 02:36 AM
Players that come to mind ...

Andre Drummond
Larry Sanders
Tobias Harris (if you play fantasy basketball he should go in the early rounds next year)
Kawhi Leonard
Bradley Beal
Damian Lillard ( most people should know him already though...)
Nikola Vucevic
Kemba Walker (believe in this guy ...even though he plays for the Cats)

Six-8-TheWizard
03-31-2013, 05:10 AM
Jonas Valanciunas

Tobias Harris

Bradley Beal

Larry Sanders

Jayrich28
03-31-2013, 09:30 AM
Larry Sanders is a good call, although he's second in the league in BPG. Hardly unknown.

Actually thats a real good call and him playing in milwaukee he still is slightly unknown so yeah I would include him.

Jayrich28
03-31-2013, 09:37 AM
Alot of guys bringing up the toronto center and vucevic from the magic.
So vucevic playing better now I remember early in the yr he was struggling.

sager729
03-31-2013, 09:46 AM
J.R. Smith is NOT a star.

ewing
03-31-2013, 11:04 AM
Russel Westbrook

heyman321
03-31-2013, 11:20 AM
Drummond/Valanciunas. Both are actually good and efficient when their idiot coaches get them the ball.

lilchuckdoubles
03-31-2013, 11:28 AM
shved

mightybosstone
03-31-2013, 11:29 AM
Some of these answers are freaking ridiculous... Westbrook? Curry? Those guys are already pretty much borderline stars. Some of the answers have been intriguing though. I love the Tobias Harris pick. I picked him up in fantasy, and it's been fun following that kid's development this season. If he can refine his skills, he could be a legitimate All-Star player in this league. He's basically averaging 16/8/1.5/1.5/1 over the last month.

I also like the three Rockets picks (homer picks obviously) of Parsons, Smith and Beverley, because I've seen them play this season and I've watched their growth. Parsons is insanely efficient, and I think he's starting to realize he's an absolute nightmare to guard, so he can pretty much go to the rim whenever he wants to. What will keep him from becoming a star is confidence and USG%. His 18.2 USG% this season is nowhere near a star player's caliber.

Smith and Beverley are both long, long shots, but the potential is there to be very, very good players. Smith is averaging basically 14/11/1/1 per 36 minutes on 63% shooting, but he's also averaging 5.4 fouls per 36 minutes. If he could develop a mid range shot and stop making so many mistakes on defense, I could see him being a starting PF/C in this league. But if he doesn't, he's essentially a poor defending Tyson Chandler.

Beverley has 6th man written all over him, because he's taken over games at times and has outplayed Lin on occasion, but I don't really see him being consistent enough to start. He does play great defense, though, and is an exceptional perimeter shooter. He's not bad running an offense, either, and he has hit some clutch shots, so he's got a star quality about him.

papipapsmanny
03-31-2013, 11:40 AM
My boys beal and Wall, and Wall has already turnt up this year

Jarvo
03-31-2013, 12:13 PM
Greg Monroe hello

b@llhog24
03-31-2013, 12:14 PM
A player who just came to mind, Gordon Hayward. If the Jazz ever get rid of Big Al and Milsap, he's gonna blow up.

dalton749
03-31-2013, 12:38 PM
most people have no idea about jonas valanciunas. he wasnt even in the rookie sophmore game but he will be a star. starting next year the league will star to pay attention to him

FraziersKnicks
03-31-2013, 01:01 PM
Some of these answers are freaking ridiculous... Westbrook? Curry? Those guys are already pretty much borderline stars. Some of the answers have been intriguing though. I love the Tobias Harris pick. I picked him up in fantasy, and it's been fun following that kid's development this season. If he can refine his skills, he could be a legitimate All-Star player in this league. He's basically averaging 16/8/1.5/1.5/1 over the last month.

I also like the three Rockets picks (homer picks obviously) of Parsons, Smith and Beverley, because I've seen them play this season and I've watched their growth. Parsons is insanely efficient, and I think he's starting to realize he's an absolute nightmare to guard, so he can pretty much go to the rim whenever he wants to. What will keep him from becoming a star is confidence and USG%. His 18.2 USG% this season is nowhere near a star player's caliber.

Smith and Beverley are both long, long shots, but the potential is there to be very, very good players. Smith is averaging basically 14/11/1/1 per 36 minutes on 63% shooting, but he's also averaging 5.4 fouls per 36 minutes. If he could develop a mid range shot and stop making so many mistakes on defense, I could see him being a starting PF/C in this league. But if he doesn't, he's essentially a poor defending Tyson Chandler.

Beverley has 6th man written all over him, because he's taken over games at times and has outplayed Lin on occasion, but I don't really see him being consistent enough to start. He does play great defense, though, and is an exceptional perimeter shooter. He's not bad running an offense, either, and he has hit some clutch shots, so he's got a star quality about him.

I think Parsons has got potential, but with his USG%, as that goes up, you can certainly expect his efficiency to go down. I think you're also overstating his efficiency a bit, his career 55.2 TS% is good, but not outstanding, if his USG% went up to around 25% (closer to a superstars USG%) I think it would be realistic to expect a dip to around 53-54 TS%. When Harden's USG% jumped from 21.6% to 28.6% his TS% dipped from 66% to 60.8%, unless you are one of the few elite players in the league, this is often the case.

If Greg Smith turns into a poor defending Tyson Chandler, he'll be out of this league. That's all Tyson has :laugh2:

LanceUpperCut
03-31-2013, 01:05 PM
People other than Raptors fans will be surprised with Jonas in 1-2 years, I hear all the Drummond love which is well deserved I just find it crazy there's not as much Valanciunas hype he does everything well including FT's.

This is somewhat a homer pick cause he's had such a short leash all year but Terrance Ross has all the tools with the defence, 3pt stroke and insane athleticism. He just needs seasoning and he could be really special.

b@llhog24
03-31-2013, 01:07 PM
I think Parsons has got potential, but with his USG%, as that goes up, you can certainly expect his efficiency to go down. I think you're also overstating his efficiency a bit, his career 55.2 TS% is good, but not outstanding, if his USG% went up to around 25% (closer to a superstars USG%) I think it would be realistic to expect a dip to around 53-54 TS%. When Harden's USG% jumped from 21.6% to 28.6% his TS% dipped from 66% to 60.8%, unless you are one of the few elite players in the league, this is often the case.

His rookie year is really dragging down his numbers. He's only played two seasons, so to me at least using his career numbers is fairly misleading (as it implies some type of longevity). He's post a around a 57% TS marker and a Ortg of 112, that's pretty good imo. Although I'm not sure if he can handle a dramatic increase in usage.


If Greg Smith turns into a poor defending Tyson Chandler, he'll be out of this league. That's all Tyson has :laugh2:

Efficiency.

Ebbs
03-31-2013, 01:16 PM
Khwai is nothing but a average player on a good system.

Agreed.

Drummond, Klay Thompson, Greg Monroe, Mike Conley

Are all guys who could be future all stars that fly under the radar

cubbiefan_est88
03-31-2013, 01:34 PM
Jimmy Buckets :)

Jimmy G Buckets* if you didnt know the "G" stand for gets!

D-Leethal
03-31-2013, 01:40 PM
His rookie year is really dragging down his numbers. He's only played two seasons, so to me at least using his career numbers is fairly misleading (as it implies some type of longevity). He's post a around a 57% TS marker and a Ortg of 112, that's pretty good imo. Although I'm not sure if he can handle a dramatic increase in usage.



Efficiency.

Is his Wilt-like efficiency really that impressive when your not asked to attempt a shot that doesn't involve your hands touching the rim? Tyson is one of my top 3 favorite players but its almost like dudes on this forum use efficiency as their #1 marker for judging players. Being that efficient also shows a lot about what Tyson CAN'T do, maybe just as much if not more than what he can do on the offensive end. His points should go to the penetrator that draws his man and spoonfeeds him open dunks.

Its easy to score efficiently when you never have to do it against an an actual defender.

Sactown
03-31-2013, 01:57 PM
Is his Wilt-like efficiency really that impressive when your not asked to attempt a shot that doesn't involve your hands touching the rim? Tyson is one of my top 3 favorite players but its almost like dudes on this forum use efficiency as their #1 marker for judging players. Being that efficient also shows a lot about what Tyson CAN'T do, maybe just as much if not more than what he can do on the offensive end. His points should go to the penetrator that draws his man and spoonfeeds him open dunks.

Its easy to score efficiently when you never have to do it against an an actual defender.
I agree that it's all about context, but his efficiency also shows something else, and that something else is something that you forgot to mention. Tyson Chandler knows who he is and doesn't force things on the offensive end.. He knows he's the defensive anchor who puts in mostly lobs.. that's something that's so underrated.. just knowing your role.

dalton749
03-31-2013, 02:06 PM
Valanciunas will average 15/9 next year shooting like 70% and everyone will be all like holy **** hes only 21, hes gunna be the best center in the league in a few years, move over rudy gay its not your team(chuck voice)

PhillyLuver
03-31-2013, 02:07 PM
Nik Vucevic... he's been killing it for my fantasy team ever since I picked him up

RipCity32
03-31-2013, 02:21 PM
Valanciunas will average 15/9 next year shooting like 70% and everyone will be all like holy **** hes only 21, hes gunna be the best center in the league in a few years, move over rudy gay its not your team(chuck voice)

He is pretty good and I don't really understand why he's not getting much credit especially when you don't even see his name on the rookie ladders and stuff.

LanceUpperCut
03-31-2013, 02:25 PM
Look at the rookie ladder again. He's been there for a while.

D-Leethal
03-31-2013, 02:33 PM
I agree that it's all about context, but his efficiency also shows something else, and that something else is something that you forgot to mention. Tyson Chandler knows who he is and doesn't force things on the offensive end.. He knows he's the defensive anchor who puts in mostly lobs.. that's something that's so underrated.. just knowing your role.

I agree, but he's also not asked to do anything more. Its great that he knows his role but that doesn't change the fact that he has zero offensive game outside of setting screens. It great that he knows he can't create offense and doesn't force things, but he doesn't force things because he knows he can't do them, knowing you don't have certain skills should only be praised to a slight degree.

Again, I just bring this up not as a slight to Tyson but as a way to try to downsize the overstating of efficiency stats on here. There were guys in the Knicks forum last year saying Landry Fields was a better offensive player than JR Smith. It easy to score efficiently when you never have to bail your team out of possessions because you can't, and you never are asked to score against a tight defender because you can't.

dalton749
03-31-2013, 02:38 PM
He is pretty good and I don't really understand why he's not getting much credit especially when you don't even see his name on the rookie ladders and stuff.

he broke his hand so he was out for a while and wasnt really getting the minutes.
still though, he got snubbed from the rookie sophmore game probably because hes in toronto.
with nothing to play for hes finally getting his touches and minutes, showing his all around game.

he will be in as a sophmore next year though i guaruntee that and will be one of the first ones off the board when they pick teams.

he could potentially be the most dominant center in the league in a few years once he fully understands and catches up with the speed of the nba. great fundamentals, plays like a true center, but can shoot too including 80% from the line which is great for a big.

Gators123
03-31-2013, 02:39 PM
People other than Raptors fans will be surprised with Jonas in 1-2 years, I hear all the Drummond love which is well deserved I just find it crazy there's not as much Valanciunas hype he does everything well including FT's.

This is somewhat a homer pick cause he's had such a short leash all year but Terrance Ross has all the tools with the defence, 3pt stroke and insane athleticism. He just needs seasoning and he could be really special.

But Drummond also rebounds and blocks shots at an elite rate. His efficiency is at an elite level too.

dalton749
03-31-2013, 02:43 PM
But Drummond also rebounds and blocks shots at an elite rate. His efficiency is at an elite level too.

valanciunas is still good in all of those departments, though drummond is better. the difference comes on the opposite end where drummond is limmited to put backs and dunks, where valanciunas has an all around game,post up, jumpshot, inside game, while being able to hit 80% of his freethrows allowing him to be a guy you can actually play through

D-Leethal
03-31-2013, 02:52 PM
Jonas is more skilled but I see Drummond as more of an impact player down the line. Hes just a physical freak and IMO will be more of a game changer. Brook Lopez ain't better than Dwight Howard just cause he has a wider array of offensive skills and can hit his FTs.

Gators123
03-31-2013, 03:01 PM
valanciunas is still good in all of those departments, though drummond is better. the difference comes on the opposite end where drummond is limmited to put backs and dunks, where valanciunas has an all around game,post up, jumpshot, inside game, while being able to hit 80% of his freethrows allowing him to be a guy you can actually play through

Thats one of the things to makes Drummond so impressive IMO. He has shown when he gets 25+ MPG he can still score 10-12 PPG.

People always talk about Drummonds offensive game right now and forget hes the 2nd youngest player in the NBA and most people thought he would be in the d-league for his first 2-3 years.

RipCity32
03-31-2013, 03:02 PM
Jonas is more skilled but I see Drummond as more of an impact player down the line. Hes just a physical freak and IMO will be more of a game changer. Brook Lopez ain't better than Dwight Howard just cause he has a wider array of offensive skills and can hit his FTs.

That's pretty spot on.The things that Drummond is good at like rebounding,Blocking,Steals and dunks he does at almost a elite level already.

dalton749
03-31-2013, 03:11 PM
Jonas is more skilled but I see Drummond as more of an impact player down the line. Hes just a physical freak and IMO will be more of a game changer. Brook Lopez ain't better than Dwight Howard just cause he has a wider array of offensive skills and can hit his FTs.

i think valanciunas game is more comparable to tim duncan than lopez though. not saying hes the next coming or anything but i think thats why the spurs offered tony parker for his rights at the draft to bring him along like they did with david robinson to tim duncan

D-Leethal
03-31-2013, 03:16 PM
i think valanciunas game is more comparable to tim duncan than lopez though. not saying hes the next coming or anything but i think thats why the spurs offered tony parker for his rights at the draft to bring him along like they did with david robinson to tim duncan

I remember the Brook Lopez comparisons to Tim Duncan too. There are many things outside of Duncan's offensive skillset that make him an absolute monster and GOAT PF. I like Jonas and think he will be a very very good player, but I don't see big time impact player or game changer in him. He doesn't have the physical presence like Drummond does.

D-Leethal
03-31-2013, 03:20 PM
That's pretty spot on.The things that Drummond is good at like rebounding,Blocking,Steals and dunks he does at almost a elite level already.

Yea I mean Drummond was drafted with the mindset it was going to be a few years before he was even making an impact in the NBA. I remember his projections being similar to Bynum, who came into the league a project with little offensive skills and refined his game to be one of the best in the league. I think Drummond is already ahead of Bynum's schedule. Drummond will be a top 3 C in the league one day IMO.

For big guys and Centers, sometimes being physically imposing and a dominant presence can have more of an positive impact on your team than an elite skill set.

ThaDubs
03-31-2013, 03:22 PM
Festus Ezeli! Did you see him last night? Block one play, then on the other end he got alley oop dunk, then next play he gets a steal. #releasethekraken

dalton749
03-31-2013, 03:24 PM
I remember the Brook Lopez comparisons to Tim Duncan too. There are many things outside of Duncan's offensive skillset that make him an absolute monster and GOAT PF. I like Jonas and think he will be a very very good player, but I don't see big time impact player or game changer in him. He doesn't have the physical presence like Drummond does.

lets just agree that it will be a never ending debate over the coming years as they both become 2 of the top centers in the league lol

b@llhog24
03-31-2013, 03:24 PM
Is his Wilt-like efficiency really that impressive when your not asked to attempt a shot that doesn't involve your hands touching the rim?

Speaking strictly of efficiency, Tyson stands alone. And yes it is fairly impressive. I don't value waste motion in basketball (it's aesthetically pleasing to watch but we're speaking strictly value here) nor do I value inefficient shots.


Tyson is one of my top 3 favorite players but its almost like dudes on this forum use efficiency as their #1 marker for judging players. Being that efficient also shows a lot about what Tyson CAN'T do, maybe just as much if not more than what he can do on the offensive end. His points should go to the penetrator that draws his man and spoonfeeds him open dunks.

Honestly not sure what this has to do with anything. You took an answer that I had to specific question and went on a rant, a little clarification would be nice here.


Its easy to score efficiently when you never have to do it against an an actual defender.

So is this supposed to diminish his efficiency or something? I mean, he's making the shots that he's supposed to make. Is he supposed to miss freebies for the sake of being inefficient or something?

LanceUpperCut
03-31-2013, 03:27 PM
Jonas is more skilled but I see Drummond as more of an impact player down the line. Hes just a physical freak and IMO will be more of a game changer. Brook Lopez ain't better than Dwight Howard just cause he has a wider array of offensive skills and can hit his FTs.

Except Brook Lopez is a pretty bad comparison, well the post moves might take a couple years Jonas will be a better at rebounding and on the defensive end by next season let alone 3-4 years from now.

CHI_Fan412
03-31-2013, 03:27 PM
Jimmy butlers emergence for the Bulls has given us the flexibility to get rid of Deng.

D-Leethal
03-31-2013, 03:31 PM
Speaking strictly of efficiency, Tyson stands alone. And yes it is fairly impressive. I don't value waste motion in basketball (it's aesthetically pleasing to watch but we're speaking strictly value here) nor do I value inefficient shots.



Honestly not sure what this has to do with anything. You took an answer that I had to specific question and went on a rant, a little clarification would be nice here.



So is this supposed to diminish his efficiency or something? I mean, he's making the shots that he's supposed to make. Is he supposed to miss freebies for the sake of being inefficient or something?

You don't have to value wasted motion, but I think many here tend to overstate the value of motion that goes unwasted.

Hes making shots that anybody can make, and those are the only shots hes asked to take, so yes it should diminish his efficiency a bit. If he was taking shots with actual defenders guarding him, that included more than put backs and alley oop dunks, and he was still efficient that would be way more impressive.

Playing within yourself to the degree Tyson does, and being efficient to the level Tyson is, is mostly a product of an extremely limited skillset and should only be praised to a degree.

And yes, I admitted I used your post not necessarily to rant towards you, but the general mindset of this forum regarding efficiency stats.

b@llhog24
03-31-2013, 03:44 PM
You don't have to value wasted motion, but I think many here tend to overstate the value of motion that goes unwasted.

I seriously don't understand how anyone can think finding the most valuable shots/plays to make is overrated.


Hes making shots that anybody can make, and those are the only shots hes asked to take, so yes it should diminish his efficiency a bit. If he was taking shots with actual defenders guarding him, that included more than put backs and alley oop dunks, and he was still efficient that would be way more impressive.

Not trying to be a dick here right, but since none of these things are happening, then this kind of doesn't matter huh? His efficiency is what it is, I never argue that it was impressive initially (although it is, say what you want but it's never been accomplished before so just based off that it holds some type of merit).


Playing within yourself to the degree Tyson does, and being efficient to the level Tyson is, is mostly a product of an extremely limited skillset and should only be praised to a degree.

Except you can't tell someone how much to praise something. I have a friend who thinks Tyson is the best player in the Nba, who am I to tell him different? Although I'm sure me, and you and the mass public disagrees, it just goes to show you some people value different things.


]And yes, I admitted I used your post not necessarily to rant towards you, but the general mindset of this forum regarding efficiency stats.

Gotta have a thick skin to be on these forums so no big deal. But to me it Sounds like you have a misconception of what people view efficiency to really mean and the level of importance weighed when talking about it. I made a post on this a little while back so I don't feel like typing it but here's the gist of it.

Efficiency between a player like Tyson and DeAndre means alot, because they play the same role (defensive anchor, strong finishers).

But comparing Tyson's efficiency to somebody like LeBron for instance, is just asinine. The level of shot creation, attention, and just overall impact that LeBron provides is just in a different planet than Tyson.

Hope that helped.

D-Leethal
03-31-2013, 04:00 PM
I seriously don't understand how anyone can think finding the most valuable shots/plays to make is overrated.



Not trying to be a dick here right, but since none of these things are happening, then this kind of doesn't matter huh? His efficiency is what it is, I never argue that it was impressive initially (although it is, say what you want but it's never been accomplished before so just based off that it holds some type of merit).



Except you can't tell someone how much to praise something. I have a friend who thinks Tyson is the best player in the Nba, who am I to tell him different? Although I'm sure me, and you and the mass public disagrees, it just goes to show you some people value different things.



Gotta have a thick skin to be on these forums so no big deal. But to me it Sounds like you have a misconception of what people view efficiency to really mean and the level of importance weighed when talking about it. I made a post on this a little while back so I don't feel like typing it but here's the gist of it.

Efficiency between a player like Tyson and DeAndre means alot, because they play the same role (defensive anchor, strong finishers).

But comparing Tyson's efficiency to somebody like LeBron for instance, is just asinine. The level of shot creation, attention, and just overall impact that LeBron provides is just in a different planet than Tyson.

Hope that helped.

Again, I don't follow your posts so I don't know your stance, just used your post to rant off topic like I openly admitted, so theres no point of this discussion going further in this thread. I have seen people discuss better players on this forum and use efficiency stats as the end-all-be-all to determine who was better.

I use Tyson as an extreme case to why you can't do that, and decided to use your post to rant even though I know thats not what you were getting at. Being efficient has every bit to do with who is playing around you and what is going on the court around you as it does for what you are able to do yourself. A lot of time your efficiency is a product of your teammates and style of offensive play as much as anything. It shouldn't be used solely to determine who is better offensively.

b@llhog24
03-31-2013, 04:19 PM
Again, I don't follow your posts so I don't know your stance, just used your post to rant off topic like I openly admitted, so theres no point of this discussion going further in this thread. I have seen people discuss better players on this forum and use efficiency stats as the end-all-be-all to determine who was better.

Nah I've seen it. It's a detestable action in deed. Efficiency doesn't stop me from enjoying the game any more or less. I still enjoy watching Melo, Agent 0, Rudy Gay, and the Iversons of the world. It's just I don't go around overrating them.


I use Tyson as an extreme case to why you can't do that, and decided to use your post to rant even though I know thats not what you were getting at. Being efficient has every bit to do with who is playing around you and what is going on the court around you as it does for what you are able to do yourself. A lot of time your efficiency is a product of your teammates and style of offensive play as much as anything. It shouldn't be used solely to determine who is better offensively.

Well to my knowledge, there's no conclusive research that has shown that they have a direct relationship. But we do have stats that hint on their correlation. But in general, with the rest of your post I agree.

A little anecdote if you're willing to listen: I never really liked talkin about efficiency in terms of advanced metrics while I was a lurker on these boards (mostly cause of the way some of the posters came off on here), but I read the formulas and they made sense to me. Some of them like TS, eFG, AST%, were fairly easy to understand and imo are better measures than their basic counterparts (FG%, Apg, etc). Over time I became semi-proficient in my understanding of them, but I still want to know more. If you call yourself a basketball fan learning more about your game's intricacies can't possibly hurt right?

ccspence8
03-31-2013, 04:49 PM
Andre Drummond and Jeff Green

JEDean89
03-31-2013, 04:52 PM
Tobias Harris has been tearing it up. Look for names you don't know on the Rockets and Magic, those two teams have some great talent stashed.

sunsfan88
03-31-2013, 06:05 PM
Al horford

Ding ding ding ding!

Vampirate
03-31-2013, 07:16 PM
Jonas V, I hope sometime.

Vampirate
03-31-2013, 07:29 PM
He is pretty good and I don't really understand why he's not getting much credit especially when you don't even see his name on the rookie ladders and stuff.

He's neck and neck wit Drmmond in stats, Drummond rebounds better by almost 2 points however Jonas kills Drummond when it comes to free throws.

mightybosstone
03-31-2013, 09:27 PM
I think Parsons has got potential, but with his USG%, as that goes up, you can certainly expect his efficiency to go down. I think you're also overstating his efficiency a bit, his career 55.2 TS% is good, but not outstanding
Yeah, but you're looking at his career numbers and you shouldn't be. Parsons was a second round pick who unexpectedly started pretty much from day one last season, so of course he was going to be efficient. The dude shot only 45/34/55, but anyone who saw him at the end of the year can tell you that he wasn't the same guy as earlier in the year. I doubt he'll ever shoot worse than 46/36/70 for the rest of his career and he's shot a very efficient 48/38/72 this season with a .575 TS%.


if his USG% went up to around 25% (closer to a superstars USG%) I think it would be realistic to expect a dip to around 53-54 TS%. When Harden's USG% jumped from 21.6% to 28.6% his TS% dipped from 66% to 60.8%, unless you are one of the few elite players in the league, this is often the case.
To some extent, you're right, but what you're not considering is that if his USG% improves, he's going to shoot a hell of a lot more than two FTA a night. If he's getting to the line 4-6 times a game, that TS% will still be extremely respectable.


If Greg Smith turns into a poor defending Tyson Chandler, he'll be out of this league. That's all Tyson has :laugh2:
That's fairly inaccurate dude. Chandler is the most efficient big men in the league and one of the best rebounding centers in the NBA. Even if Chandler was a mediocre defender, he would be useful as an energy player off the bench who could crash the boards. That's exactly what Smith is right now. He's an insanely efficient big man with huge hands who doesn't take dumb shots and rebounds at an exceptional rate.

Rivera
03-31-2013, 09:30 PM
Tobias Harris

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-31-2013, 09:34 PM
Valanciunas will average 15/9 next year shooting like 70% and everyone will be all like holy **** hes only 21, hes gunna be the best center in the league in a few years, move over rudy gay its not your team(chuck voice)

Not sure if serious....

Jayrich28
03-31-2013, 10:09 PM
I see chris copeland is having another nice game for ny..I'm surprise no ny fans haven't mentioned him in here

Jayrich28
03-31-2013, 10:11 PM
Leonard,big Val,and drummond also played well tonight.

Vampirate
03-31-2013, 10:14 PM
Not sure if serious....

He's not going to have a FG% of 70 lol but Jonas could have a season of over .570 in FG%. Now i'm saying could, not saying going to.

edited to .570 because his fg% is already at .557 this year not including tonight

denverfan66
03-31-2013, 10:14 PM
Barely gets any playing time since he's a rookie in Denver, but Evan Fournier has impressed me. Has a good stroke and can get to the rim.

Was good against Brooklyn- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob_IiCDO3xQ

Jayrich28
03-31-2013, 10:17 PM
Jeff green seems to be a keeper for the C's

gwrighter
03-31-2013, 10:22 PM
Jonas is more skilled but I see Drummond as more of an impact player down the line. Hes just a physical freak and IMO will be more of a game changer. Brook Lopez ain't better than Dwight Howard just cause he has a wider array of offensive skills and can hit his FTs.

Drummond will struggle to become an impact player shooting sub 45% from the FT line. He'll be too much of a liability in crunch time to be on the floor in the playoffs.



But Drummond also rebounds and blocks shots at an elite rate. His efficiency is at an elite level too.

This is just describing a defensive C. Plenty of those in the league, what makes C's great is their offensive ability to which Drummond at the moment lacks.

Obviously, Drummond can still improve, like Jonas. But it's the baseline of skills that are important and what make Jonas a more intriguing prospect. Jonas is already a two-way player, and Drummond isn't at the moment.

Gators123
03-31-2013, 10:32 PM
Drummond will struggle to become an impact player shooting sub 45% from the FT line. He'll be too much of a liability in crunch time to be on the floor in the playoffs.




This is just describing a defensive C. Plenty of those in the league, what makes C's great is their offensive ability to which Drummond at the moment lacks.

Obviously, Drummond can still improve, like Jonas. But it's the baseline of skills that are important and what make Jonas a more intriguing prospect. Jonas is already a two-way player, and Drummond isn't at the moment.

I honestly don't think anybody outside some Raptors fans feel like that. Drummond is easily the more intriguing prospect IMO. Hell just from a physical point hes more intriguing. 6'11, 290 pounds, 7'6 wingspan, and elite athleticism. Thats some 2k13 **** right there!

Drummond is a better defensive player than Jonas and they score at about the same rate. Jonas might have more offensive moves but Drummond can put just as many points on the board as JV.

If Drummond develops any kind of post game, he can be extremely special. Most people thought it would take him a few seasons just to be as good as he is right now. He could have easily averaged 10-12 points, 10 rebounds, and 2 blocks this season if he just played a few more MPG. If you told GM's that he was capable of that in his rookie season, he would have been drafted #2.

dalton749
04-01-2013, 01:24 AM
I honestly don't think anybody outside some Raptors fans feel like that. Drummond is easily the more intriguing prospect IMO. Hell just from a physical point hes more intriguing. 6'11, 290 pounds, 7'6 wingspan, and elite athleticism. Thats some 2k13 **** right there!

Drummond is a better defensive player than Jonas and they score at about the same rate. Jonas might have more offensive moves but Drummond can put just as many points on the board as JV.

If Drummond develops any kind of post game, he can be extremely special. Most people thought it would take him a few seasons just to be as good as he is right now. He could have easily averaged 10-12 points, 10 rebounds, and 2 blocks this season if he just played a few more MPG. If you told GM's that he was capable of that in his rookie season, he would have been drafted #2.


jonas with touches is a more capable scorer than drummond by far. up until the raps completely lost their chance at playoffs 2 weeks ago jonas is finally being used on offense. he has been looked off by his teammates all year so its no suprise everyone outside of toronto did too. he is much further ahead of drummond in this category and his potential on defence is much better than drummonds on offense which is why he will be the better 2 way players though maybe not as dominant

RiceOnTheRun
04-01-2013, 03:31 AM
Drummond for sure. Low minutes on a losing team but still managing almost a double double? With another good player at his position? At the age of 20 also? Barring any injuries, once he matures and works his kinks out he'll be a beast.

Lillard isn't really unknown but he'll be good in a few years.
Shump needs to develop his offensive game and I could see him on the brink of all-star in a few years.
Anyone on the Magic right now apparently, they've just been popping out surprise player one after another this season. (Vucevic, Davis not so much, Harris, Harkless etc.)

JiffyMix88
04-01-2013, 12:24 PM
Butler

gwrighter
04-01-2013, 12:52 PM
I honestly don't think anybody outside some Raptors fans feel like that. Drummond is easily the more intriguing prospect IMO. Hell just from a physical point hes more intriguing. 6'11, 290 pounds, 7'6 wingspan, and elite athleticism. Thats some 2k13 **** right there!

He's only more intriguing from a physical stand point. That's it, really.


Drummond is a better defensive player than Jonas and they score at about the same rate. Jonas might have more offensive moves but Drummond can put just as many points on the board as JV.

They are both bad defenders but Drummond still isn't a better defensive player than Jonas. Look at their respective opponent PER ratings. Jonas(17.6) has Drummond(21) beat in limiting his matchup to less offensive production.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12TOR17.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1213/12DET16.HTM

Are you willing to say that with an increase in usage for Drummond, his efficiency will rise? You have to look at where Drummond is scoring the ball. 82% of his field goals come at the rim, on put backs or pick and rolls/drop-off passes.

44% of Valanciunas' field goals come at the rim. Though they may score at the same rate, Valanciunas' is more versatile in how he creates his offence.


If Drummond develops any kind of post game, he can be extremely special. Most people thought it would take him a few seasons just to be as good as he is right now. He could have easily averaged 10-12 points, 10 rebounds, and 2 blocks this season if he just played a few more MPG. If you told GM's that he was capable of that in his rookie season, he would have been drafted #2.

That's still a big if. I haven't seen any development this season in his offensive game since coming from UConn. Jonas could have averaged more per game stats as well if he got the minutes. His efficiency has actually increased with a higher usage. If we are going to project then Jonas could have been an 18 & 8 with 1.5blks if he got more minutes.

They are both good prospects, Drummond looks better on paper than he actually is IMO. this will be a good debate for the next couple of seasons.

Gators123
04-01-2013, 01:07 PM
Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Andre Drummond 2012-13 19 52 1027 22.6 .569 .600 16.1 27.8 21.9 4.2 2.5 6.7 10.9 17.1 114 99 1.9 1.9 3.8 .179
2 Jonas Valanciunas 2012-13 20 55 1260 15.1 .604 .556 10.2 21.3 15.6 5.5 0.6 3.9 17.3 16.6 112 107 1.9 1.2 3.0 .115

And according to synergy-

Drummond- 1.1 PPP on offense
Valanciunas- 1.1 PPP on offense

Drummond allows .82 PPP on defense
Valanciunas allows. .89 PPP on defense


I like Jonas, but he was supposed to be a lot better than Drummond right now. Some Raptor fans were saying they would take him over Anthony Davis.

Most people would agree that Drummond is having a better season than Val, and Dre is wayy more raw than him.

sunsfan88
04-01-2013, 01:10 PM
The Magic center.

dalton749
04-01-2013, 01:17 PM
Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Andre Drummond 2012-13 19 52 1027 22.6 .569 .600 16.1 27.8 21.9 4.2 2.5 6.7 10.9 17.1 114 99 1.9 1.9 3.8 .179
2 Jonas Valanciunas 2012-13 20 55 1260 15.1 .604 .556 10.2 21.3 15.6 5.5 0.6 3.9 17.3 16.6 112 107 1.9 1.2 3.0 .115

And according to synergy-

Drummond- 1.1 PPP on offense
Valanciunas- 1.1 PPP on offense

Drummond allows .82 PPP on defense
Valanciunas allows. .89 PPP on defense


I like Jonas, but he was supposed to be a lot better than Drummond right now. Some Raptor fans were saying they would take him over Anthony Davis.

Most people would agree that Drummond is having a better season than Val, and Dre is wayy more raw than him.

jonas hasnt been utilized properly this season up until the last 2 weeks. the raptors were trying to make the playoffs first, develop jv second so he took a back seat to winning(which was actually making us lose). the entire year he hasnt been given any touches and only got hustle points up until now where theyve been running plays for him and given him the green light to shoot.
in that time he has averaged:
15ppg, 8.5 rbg, 1.2 blk shooting 72% from the field and 89% from the line
in about 30mpg

he has shown range out to 20 feet and a much more developed post game than anybody thought he was capable of.
hes gunna blow up next year and will have to learn to play out of double teams because he will be seeing a lot of them before hes truly effective though

Gators123
04-01-2013, 01:25 PM
In the games Drummond gets 20-30 MPG (only 23 MPG average) he averages-

9.4 points
9.4 rebounds
1.6 blocks
1.2 steals
62% FG

So if he can do that in an average of 23 MPG, imagine what he can do in 33 MPG.


And for what its worth, in the couple games he has played more than 30 minutes he averaged-

15.5 points
12.0 rebounds
1.5 blocks
1.5 steals
77% FG

Stinkyoutsider
04-01-2013, 01:41 PM
I do like Vucevic to become a very good starting big but every time I think of who his game mirrors, I think about Marcin Gortat. And, Gortat has kind of fallen off since he went to the Suns.

He115ing
04-01-2013, 01:48 PM
Jrue Holiday. I know he made the all star team but no one ever talks about him. He has been having a monster of a season. I hope he can keep this up.

JoeBlessU
04-01-2013, 01:50 PM
Derrick Williams

gwrighter
04-01-2013, 01:54 PM
Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Andre Drummond 2012-13 19 52 1027 22.6 .569 .600 16.1 27.8 21.9 4.2 2.5 6.7 10.9 17.1 114 99 1.9 1.9 3.8 .179
2 Jonas Valanciunas 2012-13 20 55 1260 15.1 .604 .556 10.2 21.3 15.6 5.5 0.6 3.9 17.3 16.6 112 107 1.9 1.2 3.0 .115

And according to synergy-

Drummond- 1.1 PPP on offense
Valanciunas- 1.1 PPP on offense

Drummond allows .82 PPP on defense
Valanciunas allows. .89 PPP on defense


I like Jonas, but he was supposed to be a lot better than Drummond right now. Some Raptor fans were saying they would take him over Anthony Davis.

Most people would agree that Drummond is having a better season than Val, and Dre is wayy more raw than him.

Those stats need to be contextualized in order to suit the argument for Drummond. Like I mentioned before Drummond takes easier shots to get those 1.1PPP. 83% of them at the rim, Valanciunas get's those 1.1PPP on a variety of locations which makes him the better offensive player.

PPP for defence only measures man-to-man defence on scoring opportunities. Bargnani had one of the best defensive PPP ratings last season and we all know how terrible of a defensive player he is.

Opponent PER measures the opponents full production. While Valanciunas let's his man produce at an above average rate(17.6), Drummond allows his opponent to produce at an All-Star level rate (21).

Jonas may not seem like he's much better than Drummond on paper, but by the eye test you can tell that he is.

Gators123
04-01-2013, 02:26 PM
And everybody knows there is no great defensive stat. 82games also says Bargnani was pretty good defensively last year. Great defense at PF.

Raptors fans have been saying Vals defense hasn't been that good, and they fact you think he is way better defensively than Drummond is an absolute joke.

Drummonds help defense is miles ahead of Vals.

Edit:

Judging by 82games.com opponents PER, Monroe is better defensively than Drummond. LOL! That couldn't be further from the truth.

Like I said, there isn't any great defensive stats.

Drummond is the Pistons best defensive player. Easily. Monroe is one of the worst.

dalton749
04-01-2013, 02:44 PM
i havent paid much attention to drummond on the defensive end but he probably is the better defender right now. valanciunas is decent in man situations but he hasnt caught up with the speed of the nba game yet when helping. it will be scary when he gets that down because he already blocks what seems like a ridiculous amount of shots 1 on 1 in post ups like ive never seen anyone do before.

Iggz53
04-01-2013, 03:32 PM
I'll take Bradley Beal

dalton749
04-01-2013, 07:21 PM
jv drummond battling again for the second time this week

gwrighter
04-01-2013, 09:48 PM
And everybody knows there is no great defensive stat. 82games also says Bargnani was pretty good defensively last year. Great defense at PF.

Raptors fans have been saying Vals defense hasn't been that good, and they fact you think he is way better defensively than Drummond is an absolute joke.

Drummonds help defense is miles ahead of Vals.

Edit:

Judging by 82games.com opponents PER, Monroe is better defensively than Drummond. LOL! That couldn't be further from the truth.

Like I said, there isn't any great defensive stats.

Drummond is the Pistons best defensive player. Easily. Monroe is one of the worst.

What a head 2 head matchup tonight.

Drummond: 20min 4pts 4reb .400FG%
JV: 37min 17pts(8/14) 6rebs 5Blks .570FG%

Not much more to say except the stats back up the eye test.

b@llhog24
04-01-2013, 10:00 PM
Luckily Drummound has 28 other teams to prove himself against, huh?

RipCity32
04-01-2013, 10:26 PM
What a head 2 head matchup tonight.

Drummond: 20min 4pts 4reb .400FG%
JV: 37min 17pts(8/14) 6rebs 5Blks .570FG%

Not much more to say except the stats back up the eye test.

Wow like Drummond hasn't had games like that in 20 mins lol

jp611
04-01-2013, 10:38 PM
Tobias Harris

Hitman21
04-01-2013, 10:46 PM
bradley beal!!!

jonas valanciunas

John Walls Era
04-02-2013, 01:53 AM
Jonas. Maybe when Drummond develops a game that isn't all dunks and layups. And contrary to popular belief, players don't just suddenly get a post game after a few years.

Tmath
04-02-2013, 02:11 AM
Jonas. Maybe when Drummond develops a game that isn't all dunks and layups. And contrary to popular belief, players don't just suddenly get a post game after a few years.

This.

Drummond is sooooooo overrated. Yes he is big, yes he is athletic, but the kid cannot play basketball. He has zero fundamentals.

RipCity32
04-02-2013, 08:11 AM
You Canadians seem a little upset.Maybe its because "With the eighth pick in the 2012 NBA draft the Toronto Raptors select Terrance Ross".

Tmath
04-02-2013, 03:59 PM
You Canadians seem a little upset.Maybe its because "With the eighth pick in the 2012 NBA draft the Toronto Raptors select Terrance Ross".

I think Detroit fans are just over sensitive when it comes to Drummond. Everyone has their opinion, just because people say he is going to be a star, doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it.

A lot of Raptors fans wanted Drummond, I just wasn't one of them.

I like players that are fundamentally sound. Thats why I love Valanciunas as a prospect, and why I'm not really a fan of Drummond.

I actually wanted Jeremy Lamb because I'm not high on DeRozan, thats why I am ok with the Ross pick, because they play the same position.

Ross has shown good flashes, very explosive, is an inconsistent shooter, but has very good form, so I expect that to get better. He needs to get stronger, which he will, and needs to get more confident with his dribble, and I think that will improve with consistent playing time. I think the lack of consistent playing time has really hurt him this season.

Jayrich28
04-07-2013, 01:42 PM
Copeland plays well everytime I see him

sfattahian
04-07-2013, 02:14 PM
I haven't watch alot of bball this season work, life, etc. but I wanna know what guys that have star potential and those guys who are on the verge of breaking out but aren't talk about around casual nba fans.

We know the guys everyone talks about on here its time we gave praise to those who dont normally get it. Weither it be future impact players guys who shine when they play but dont always get the minutes.

Whos the next guys to watchout for he can be on your favorite team or a guy you just think, wow why doesnt coach play him more I call it the kenneth faried,paul george award lol jk.

I notice a few guys
jimmy butler bulls
Chandler parsons rockets
Chris copeland ny
Earl clark la

Who has caught your eye?

for a bay area guy, hard to understand how you overlooked Harrison Barnes. Guy's a budding star, 2-way player, conitues to improve and fly under the radar. He is a perfect fit in Golden State with his slashing ability and speed/athleticism in transition a perfect foil for shooters like Curry and Thompson. Barnes will be able to carry the Warriors offensively on nights when shooters shots aren't falling. He is also a 1-man fast break.

Not sure I'd call Barnes or Parsons unknown though.

Isaiah Thomas of the Kings is another young stud who could become the next Isaiah Thomas. He is a great shooter and can dribble-drive at will. Underrated playmaker too. Not a bad player for the last pick of the draft.

joykilla
04-07-2013, 04:13 PM
Reggie F'n Jackson

Future Stud.

THE GIPPER
04-07-2013, 05:52 PM
Brad Beal, Jonas Valanciunas and my sleeper is Evan Fournier.

Fournier hasnt been given many minutes this year because GK doesnt really play rookies but with the recent injuries to Lawson and Gallo he looks real good.

D-Leethal
04-07-2013, 06:23 PM
I think Jeremy Lamb will shine eventually.

CavsYanksDuke
04-07-2013, 06:45 PM
Put JJ Redick on the right team this offseason, you will see a star. I know people have heard of him, but that's because of his amateur career. He has molded himself into a defender and a passer, which both help his shooting enormously.

Come on Bulls/Blazers/Thunder/Clippers. You know you want this kid.

WAYNEBO
04-08-2013, 03:47 PM
Steph Curry
Dre Drummond
Chandler Parsons
Reggie Jackson
Eric Bledsoe
Jeff Green
Bradley Beal

WAYNEBO
04-08-2013, 03:50 PM
Oh, and I forgot to add Pekovic for the Wolves... seems like a future stud.

og knick
04-08-2013, 04:07 PM
I don 't think any of these guys will be more than a maybe 1 time all star.. but I like
Vucavic for sure .
Grevis vasquez 14 pts and 9 assists per game and had at least one triple double.
Larry sanders is a beast at 9 points and 9 rebounds with no plays called for him.. great guy for any team.
Jarret Jack was on fire for a while this year and could be a great 6th man eventually.

I like these guys cause they have a few years in the league and are starting to put it together and they can change the outcome of a game ....

Ilyasova could be a beast if he gets more consistent.

Drummond will end up doing what greg monroe does soon but can he play with Monroe or do they need to trade one of them?

corytwotimes
04-08-2013, 04:17 PM
Larry Sanders

3RDASYSTEM
04-08-2013, 04:25 PM
Are we basing it on hype(rings,market place)see BEAN


or just flat out 'game',which is really no up and coming 'superstar' at this point, but good players galore at best

the impact on the hardwood when you see that guy on that team and go where would they be without him, or how dangerous would that team be if that player x had allstar type support, I don't see it because a lot of these young good players have talent around them rather it be young or vets and they cant elevate a squad

just look at K LOVE who put up crazy numbers to the tune of 30wins if that

just imagine had MELO/AI/BRON played in a NYC market they whole career,they'd be BEAN 10x over, but at least they had that type of day1 impact

MELO had to demand a trade to get his bigtime 'press' in DEN, now all he has to do is miss a game or get injured or drop 40pts each nite and watch his value skyrocket, its all about nyc

the hype is even more worse now because no way in the world any player in todays game will be a allstar starter but ride the bench for his regular season team

the college players are avg pretty much in todays game, good at best

bball/NBA biz is going to ride BRON/KD/MELO and others til the wheels fall of because the new current crop of players are nothing to write home about, good but not box office type except for maybe 1 or 2, CURRY-GRIFFIN? maybe LILLARD? but he good nothing special in my book, same with IRVING, dude played 10 games in college and came out so it wasn't much to go off of but he still handled his biz on court

NYKNYGNYY
04-08-2013, 04:42 PM
Drew peacock

bigmac8675
04-08-2013, 06:22 PM
Andris Biedrins :hide:






LOL

kinglebreezy
04-08-2013, 08:05 PM
If Marshon Brooks goes to a junk team, like the Magic or something like that, I could see him averaging 22-24 points.

sventhedog
04-08-2013, 09:55 PM
how the hell am i supposed to know if he's unknown?

DenButsu
04-09-2013, 02:44 AM
It's hard to know where his ceiling is at this point, but I do think that w/ Lawson and Gallo down, Evan Fournier has emerged as a player who appears poised to exceed expectations in a big way. Way too early to tell if he'll ever approach their level of play, but he definitely has a TP/Manu dimension to his game. He broker Parker's record (http://www.nbadraft.net/french-nba-prospect-evan-fournier-wipes-tony-parker-record-books) as the youngest player to ever score 20+ points in the French league, and his poise, confidence and fearlessness are way beyond what you'd usually expect from a rookie 20th pick.

5ass
04-09-2013, 03:07 AM
Put JJ Redick on the right team this offseason, you will see a star. I know people have heard of him, but that's because of his amateur career. He has molded himself into a defender and a passer, which both help his shooting enormously.

Come on Bulls/Blazers/Thunder/Clippers. You know you want this kid.

OKC would be the perfect fit, but JJ will never be a star.

RollingWave
04-09-2013, 04:18 AM
What's the criteria here? how unknown does he have to be? how good does he have to end up?


the guy being unknown in the sense that

1. even serious fans may not know him?
2. casual fans probably don't know him?

star in the sense that

1. very good starter on a decent team?
2. legit strait out all star?

Those are very different things. Guys like Chandler Parsons and Jimmy Butler should be well known to most semi serious fans, though maybe casual fans not in their conference might miss them, meanwhile, a strait out all star is very very difficult to go from someone who's not already pretty famous this year. (since fame is part of being an all star unfortunately. )


Having said that, I would also say that whoever wins out the Houston PF position next year would be someone to look out for. since they surely more than qualify for the "unknown" part at least ;)

I like Donatas Montejunas a lot, not sure if he can put it together, but anytime you get a young 7 footer who's fast and can shoot 3s and just about every type of post shot imaginable, you should keep an eye on him even if he sucks defensively and randomly gets into foul trouble. and often don't position himself well enough to make use of his offesnive skill set.

PhillyFaninLA
04-09-2013, 06:37 AM
Vucivic (the center the Sixers traded to the Magic)

BklynKnicks3
04-09-2013, 10:24 AM
JOsh selby if he ever gets the right coach and situation