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View Full Version : Who wins 6th man of the year?



AI
03-28-2013, 04:27 PM
Basically, it's a 3 man race between J.R., Crawford and Jack at this point.

Who wins?

NYJ - NYY
03-28-2013, 04:31 PM
if JR closes the season out the way he's been playing gonna be super hard to determine a winner

jimm120
03-28-2013, 04:53 PM
It was JR Smith at first.
Then it was a tie between Smith and Crawford
Then others like Anderson, etc started to creep into the conversations.
Then Crawford
Now I'd say Smith has retaken the lead.

Real close battle. End of the day, all have helped their teams immensly. Crawford to being a true 6th man to Smith, pretty much being the Knicks' #2 guy (though coming off the bench).

colinskik
03-28-2013, 05:13 PM
It's down to Smith and Crawford right now. Smith's been playing out of his mind lately and if he continues to do so should win it easily. He's been playing better than Melo (see last night).

ThaDubs
03-28-2013, 05:22 PM
It should be JJ if you look at per 36 stats and in terms of team impact, but it is down to Smith and Crawford because of hype and Smith has been playing out of his mind as of recently.

asandhu23
03-28-2013, 05:24 PM
Should be Jarrett Jack. Too bad that there is an East Coast bias and most people don't watch Warriors' game enough to see his impact.

QueensG_718
03-28-2013, 05:25 PM
Jr smiff!! Most definately!

Jesse2272
03-28-2013, 05:27 PM
JR Spliff:smoking:

nycericanguy
03-28-2013, 05:30 PM
Should be Jarrett Jack. Too bad that there is an East Coast bias and most people don't watch Warriors' game enough to see his impact.

JR is averaging more than 4ppg more than JJ... I know its not all about scoring, but that's a pretty significant difference.

JR is the 2nd leading scorer on the #2 seed in the East... he has to win it, and he's been insane lately, 26ppg on 54% shooting over the past 5 games. I don't think JJ has had a stretch like that or a stretch where he was flat out the Warriors best player.

DallasTrilla23
03-28-2013, 05:35 PM
JR is averaging more than 4ppg more than JJ... I know its not all about scoring, but that's a pretty significant difference.

JR is the 2nd leading scorer on the #2 seed in the East... he has to win it, and he's been insane lately, 26ppg on 54% shooting over the past 5 games. I don't think JJ has had a stretch like that or a stretch where he was flat out the Warriors best player.

Jack scores less but he does it more efficiently. He gets more assists too.

nycericanguy
03-28-2013, 05:38 PM
Jack scores less but he does it more efficiently. He gets more assists too.

JR handles a much bigger load, its not the efficiency award. Scoring more sometimes comes at the expense of some efficiency.

Jack has been solid, but he hasn't carried GSW for stretches like JR has. He's put NY on his back to a 6-0 record the past 2 weeks. He's been one of the best players in the entire league those 2 weeks.

29$JerZ
03-28-2013, 05:38 PM
Jr Smiths 2 performances against Jamal Crawford were pretty bad.
If Smith keeps his current production up for the next month (very tough month against playoff teams) he would get my vote.

It should be Jamal Crawford, JJ is the victim of the team he plays for.

Sly Guy
03-28-2013, 05:39 PM
I think jack deserves it, but I imagine it'll be crawford

D-Leethal
03-28-2013, 05:39 PM
JR is getting the hype at the right time, Crawford is pretty stale as far as 6th men go, reporters love hype and love to hand out awards to new faces, I think JR wins it.

STA_PLAR
03-28-2013, 05:39 PM
Its not that JR is a better player than JJ or JC. It is simply because the Knicks needed him to step for him to be successful.

I havent seen the stats but that probably means he played more mins, shot more and probably scored more. He is not the most efficient or consistent but he should still get it.

The knicks needed him to step up this year bc of Amare and the other old geezers they have and he did it.

So yeah I voted JR.

TheNumber37
03-28-2013, 05:42 PM
JR means more to the Knicks than Crawford does to the Clippers.
JR is ALSO one of the few Knicks to have played in every game this season, which Crawford has not done.

If JR keeps up his play during these last 11-12 games... I'd have to to take JR (assuming his PPG would be over 19 at that point)

zn23
03-28-2013, 05:58 PM
close, but I went with Crawford.

king4day
03-28-2013, 05:58 PM
I hope Smith gets it since I'm from NY, but it wouldn't bother me if any of the other 2 got it (especially Jack)

29$JerZ
03-28-2013, 06:10 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=smithjr01&y1=2013&p2=crawfja01&y2=2013&p3=jackja01&y3=2013

AI
03-28-2013, 06:29 PM
I think Smith is in the lead as of right now.

ManRam
03-28-2013, 07:18 PM
smith has been playing amaznig lately and has closed the gap.


ehhh...actually looking at things again, i'd take JR over Jack. i voted the opposite, but i change my mind. smith has been both better and means more to his team

asandhu23
03-28-2013, 07:41 PM
JR is averaging more than 4ppg more than JJ... I know its not all about scoring, but that's a pretty significant difference.

JR is the 2nd leading scorer on the #2 seed in the East... he has to win it, and he's been insane lately, 26ppg on 54% shooting over the past 5 games. I don't think JJ has had a stretch like that or a stretch where he was flat out the Warriors best player.


Look at the assists per game for Jarrett Jack.

asandhu23
03-28-2013, 07:42 PM
JR handles a much bigger load, its not the efficiency award. Scoring more sometimes comes at the expense of some efficiency.

Jack has been solid, but he hasn't carried GSW for stretches like JR has. He's put NY on his back to a 6-0 record the past 2 weeks. He's been one of the best players in the entire league those 2 weeks.

Have you watched Jarrett play this year?

Tony_Starks
03-28-2013, 07:46 PM
Crawford. JR Swish is close but I think they'll penalize him for starting some games. Plus they take record into consideration...

Utd7
03-28-2013, 08:02 PM
It's Jr's to loose as long as he doesn't implode between now and the end of the season.

AI
03-28-2013, 08:12 PM
Crawford. JR Swish is close but I think they'll penalize him for starting some games. Plus they take record into consideration...

JR hasn't started a game all year, wtf?

And by record, you mean 2nd best in the East? Would be absurd to penalize him for that.

bigmac8675
03-28-2013, 08:16 PM
It should be Jack... but since he is on the West Coast people won't see him play enough so he won't win.

b@llhog24
03-28-2013, 08:16 PM
VC has been better than all of them.

Chronz
03-28-2013, 08:35 PM
smith has been playing amaznig lately and has closed the gap.


ehhh...actually looking at things again, i'd take JR over Jack. i voted the opposite, but i change my mind. smith has been both better and means more to his team
What changed your mind?


And anyone acting like any of these guys stands out more than the crowd is lying to themselves.

ThaDubs
03-28-2013, 08:44 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=jackja01&y1=2013&p2=smithjr01&y2=2013&p3=crawfja01&y3=2013

I still take JJ.

D-Leethal
03-28-2013, 08:45 PM
What changed your mind?


And anyone acting like any of these guys stands out more than the crowd is lying to themselves.

Hype is the reason that JR and Jamal stand out. They are bigger names, and that matters to these beauty pageant type awards. Having sportswriters vote is a travesty IMO but thats another topic. Its all about the 'sexy pick' with these awards, Jarret Jack sure ain't that. Jamal IMO is getting stale as the leagues top 6th man and these reporters love a new face, JR got a lot of all star love on the national broadcasts, has had a bunch of sportcenter top 10 dunks and daggers, Knicks are finally somewhat relevant and he's a huge reason why.

I understand I didn't even give any stats or basketball reasons for why I think he wins it, and thats precisely why I think he wins it. That stuff matters less than hype in these beauty pageant awards. The funny part is the hype is manufactured all year long by the very guys who vote.

lol, please
03-28-2013, 11:23 PM
Jack and it's not close.

Kashmir13579
03-28-2013, 11:40 PM
Smith played like *** for a size-able stretch. I'm not sure this resurgence will be enough to surpass other candidates.

Kashmir13579
03-28-2013, 11:43 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=smithjr01&y1=2013&p2=crawfja01&y2=2013&p3=jackja01&y3=2013

Damn. Thats pretty close.. Smith's DWS, though..

JasonJohnHorn
03-29-2013, 10:37 AM
I would go with JR Smith, but Ray Allen and Kevin Martin have both played crucial roles for their respective teams, and Jordan Crawford has had a great year coming off the bench as well.

I have a hard time seeing JR Smith as a 6th man though since he has logged more minutes than anybody on NY's roster this season. He's a starter that they bring off the bench for some unknown reason.

todu82
03-29-2013, 10:51 AM
J.R. Smith

odiz
03-29-2013, 10:52 AM
I dont know if i think he should win, but everybody should be mentioning Jarret Jack. Hes been amazing, really efficient and he has had like 5 or 6 games where he has just beasted and single handedly carried us to wins.

He115ing
03-29-2013, 11:02 AM
JR handles a much bigger load, its not the efficiency award. Scoring more sometimes comes at the expense of some efficiency.

Jack has been solid, but he hasn't carried GSW for stretches like JR has. He's put NY on his back to a 6-0 record the past 2 weeks. He's been one of the best players in the entire league those 2 weeks.

Plus dont forget those game winners JR hit.

DTownSkitzo
03-29-2013, 01:03 PM
My vote would be for Jack because he has been an absolute beast.

J.R.'s numbers looked sexier and J.R. has the bigger name. He wouldn't be scoring so much if it were due to injuries but it is what it is.

Sactown
03-29-2013, 01:47 PM
Why isn't Kevin Martin in the conversation?

HYFR
03-29-2013, 11:15 PM
Jr 3rd straight 30 pt game and his 5th this month. He is really making a push to win it

bklynny67
03-29-2013, 11:39 PM
Jack and it's not close.

LOL

As JR goes for 35 last game and 37 tonight, continuing to be the best player in the NBA off the bench. The amount of mins he gets doesn't matter. 6th man of the yr is the best non-starter.... That's so obviously JR Smith.

bklynny67
03-29-2013, 11:46 PM
13.3 ppg, 5.5 apg, 3.0 rpg, 0.7 spg 16.07 PER

17.4 ppg, 2.8 apg, 5.1 rpg, 1.7 spg, 16.79 PER


How are people saying Jarrett Jack? I notice it's mostly Warriors fans, but come on......

bklynny67
03-29-2013, 11:47 PM
I dont know if i think he should win, but everybody should be mentioning Jarret Jack. Hes been amazing, really efficient and he has had like 5 or 6 games where he has just beasted and single handedly carried us to wins.

So he's single handedly carried "you guys" to wins? You're saying that as if JR has not done that several times for the Knicks, not to mention JR's two game winning buzzer beaters. Does Jack have any of those as well as the better numbers?..... this reasoning you tried to used is flawed, big time.

69centers
03-30-2013, 10:00 AM
Look at the assists per game for Jarrett Jack.

This is why Jack gets my vote.

mjqusoldier
03-30-2013, 10:44 AM
Yea and jarret jack isn't as good as Jc or Jr...

Becks2307
03-30-2013, 11:12 AM
JR smith is playing out of his mind, i really think this kid figured it out and is going to be an all star next season.

I think this isnt just a hot streak, he literally stopped shooting jumpers and drives the lane like crazy now, he cant be stopped. 37 points off the bench? jesus christ.

lamzoka
03-30-2013, 12:31 PM
Jr will win it. i mean most of the media thought he was suppose to be an all-star.
right now Jr is playing better basketball than he ever did in his career.

AI
03-30-2013, 12:49 PM
This is why Jack gets my vote.

J.R. vs Jack

Jack +2.7 assists
J.R. +4.1 points, +2.1 rebounds, +1 steal, +0.72 PER

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-30-2013, 12:59 PM
J.R. vs Jack

Jack +2.7 assists
J.R. +4.1 points, +2.1 rebounds, +1 steal, +0.72 PER

Forgot to point out the fact that Jack has been a more efficient scorer.

Becks2307
04-13-2013, 09:54 PM
Really trying hard to be unbiased here but this is a wrap Imo. JR Smith is a changed man.

MyDRoseLikeDeng
04-13-2013, 11:08 PM
nate robinson definitely deserves some love

lol, please
04-13-2013, 11:18 PM
Forgot to point out the fact that Jack has been a more efficient scorer.

This.

QueensG_718
04-13-2013, 11:39 PM
Jr is running away with this award

QueensG_718
04-13-2013, 11:47 PM
Lets put it this way. Jr smith is robin to carmelos batman. No other 6th man in the league is robin to their teams main player. Plus were the second best team in the east.

DreamShaker
04-14-2013, 12:27 AM
I honestly can see a case for up to 5 different guys, with no one head and shoulders above the rest. I would be fine with Jack, Smith, or Crawford and really don't see a huge favorite.

DreamShaker
04-14-2013, 12:30 AM
Jr will win it. i mean most of the media thought he was suppose to be an all-star.
right now Jr is playing better basketball than he ever did in his career.

I remember Crawford getting more All Star hype. But Smith has been better since, especially the past month.

DreamShaker
04-14-2013, 12:33 AM
nate robinson definitely deserves some love

Hes one of my favorite players to watch. Good player.

Swashcuff
04-14-2013, 07:56 AM
Jack is a PG so you'd automatically expect him to get more assists than JR (also not forgetting the fact that JR plays on a team with 3 PGs already), JR is a shooting guard who happens to be taller than Jack and has a larger rebounding responsibility so there is no surprise that he's a better rebounder than Jack. These are the obvious if you ask me. Is there any huge difference in their games that makes up for the difference in rebounding, steals, blocks, assists etc? If you ask me no.

What makes the difference IMO is the fact that without JR Smith (or another high volume SG like Crawford) no chance in hell the Knicks are a second seed this season. His play has been HUGE for them especially given the fact that their two best scorers (don't know if we can still class A'mare here but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt) has missed crucial time due to injuy, and despite that the Knicks are there 3rd best offensive team in the league. JR believe or not has a major role to play in that despite his lack of efficient scoring.

I think too many people are getting caught up with the stats and ignoring the impact/value in which a player has. If it was a stats award many of the 6MOY winners wouldn't even be top 5 in terms of consideration. Aaron McKie was probably the 15th best (I think that in itself is being generous) 6th Man Statistically in 01 but that didn't stop him from receiving the award.

JR has been better defensively, a better volume scorer (albeit on a weaker efficiency which really isn't that much of a difference) and IMO more valuable to his team's success. He is the winner between himself and Jack.

Jaded
04-14-2013, 08:23 AM
Earl Joseph Smith

Becks2307
04-14-2013, 08:46 AM
As the poster above me said. No 6th man has been their teams 2nd best player all season. Not to mention the number one option for a large portion.

Jint.
04-14-2013, 09:22 AM
JR Swish..

Yankeefan213
04-14-2013, 09:38 AM
This is going to sound biased, but I really don't see any way JR doesn't win this. His recent play has been unreal. And since he did this all at the end of the season, it will be fresh in the voters' minds, so the award will go to JR no doubt.

lvlheaded
04-14-2013, 10:12 AM
This is one of those things that I wouldn't be mad at any of JR, Crawford, JJ, or Martin winning it.

That said, I think JR gets it. Not necessarily cause hes obviously better than any of the other guys, but because he is on par with all of them and gets a lot of national exposure being on a NY team. I think he gets it by a slight margin

xxplayerxx23
04-14-2013, 10:17 AM
This is one of those things that I wouldn't be mad at any of JR, Crawford, JJ, or Martin winning it.

That said, I think JR gets it. Not necessarily cause hes obviously better than any of the other guys, but because he is on par with all of them and gets a lot of national exposure being on a NY team. I think he gets it by a slight margin

I don't think Martin is in the running. To me it's jr vs Jamal vs jack. I think jr gets it which means he might not be a knick next year because we might not be able to afford yim

KnicksorBust
04-14-2013, 10:31 AM
I've been really impressed with Jack this season. He's scoring, distributing, and he's allowing Curry to play off the ball (a huge plus for that team). However, this is like how we can talk about how great Durant has been but it's still LeBron's award. This is JR Smith's award. He has been a much more crucial piece of the Knicks success this season and the advanced stats back it up.

Jesse2272
04-14-2013, 10:39 AM
JR Spliff:smoking:

GTFO

lamzoka
04-14-2013, 10:43 AM
Give Jr the 6th man award, or he will give David Stern's wife the pipe.

Jesse2272
04-14-2013, 10:44 AM
Give Jr the 6th man award, or he will give David Stern's wife the pipe.

Ha :laugh:

Jesse2272
04-14-2013, 10:45 AM
piping aint easy

NoahH
04-14-2013, 02:41 PM
I think it has to be JR at this point

KniCks4LiFe
04-14-2013, 02:46 PM
"To score you need to shoot, to score more you need to shoot more"

JR running away.

ChiSox219
04-14-2013, 02:56 PM
I'm not saying Chris Andersen will even receive votes but his impact off the bench is undeniable.

eternal slumber
04-14-2013, 02:59 PM
i really liked Jack but i think Smith has it in the bag.

GIANTKNICK
04-15-2013, 08:06 AM
Swish!!!!

Dankster
04-15-2013, 08:43 AM
JR and it's not even close.

No offense to Jamal (I've always been a big fan of his,) but he doesn't have the same type of impact on a game that JR does. JR is a MUCH better rebounder and defender than Crawford, two facets that I don't think get factored in too much when comparing these 2 players.

And this offensive surge he's been off for approximately a month has basically sealed his fate as the 6th man of the year.

mightybosstone
04-15-2013, 08:49 AM
JR and it's not even close.

No offense to Jamal (I've always been a big fan of his,) but he doesn't have the same type of impact on a game that JR does. JR is a MUCH better rebounder and defender than Crawford, two facets that I don't think get factored in too much when comparing these 2 players.

And this offensive surge he's been off for approximately a month has basically sealed his fate as the 6th man of the year.

"Not even close" is insane, because there are probably 4-5 players who could potentially win this award and the vote will end up being very, very close. The thread doesn't even mention Kevin Martin, who stepped up with Harden gone and provided a solid 14 points off the bench on a hyper efficient 61 percent TS%.

Dankster
04-15-2013, 09:00 AM
^^No, I stand by those words "not even close."

Kevin Martin is the 3rd scorer on that team. I don't care if he has an .850 TS%, his team doesn't rely on his offense as much as the Knicks do with JR. And please if you want to compare these 2 guys lets look at their all around games-- lets factor in what kind of a defender and rebounder Kevin Martin is compared to JR as well.

It seems pretty much everyone puts such a heavy emphasis/concentration on offensive efficiency and offensive numbers when it pertains to 6th man candidates. How about the other facets of the game? Aren't they also very important when trying to analyze a player's skillset?

It's JR SMith and it's not even close. His all around game is much, much better than Jamal Crawford or Kevin Martin.

titan85
04-15-2013, 09:03 AM
Holy Knicks fans Batman! Lol I would give it to J.R. despite the inconsistencies that can cost his team. But this is why he is a 6th man.

mightybosstone
04-15-2013, 09:11 AM
^^No, I stand by those words "not even close."

Kevin Martin is the 3rd scorer on that team. I don't care if he has an .850 TS%, his team doesn't rely on his offense as much as the Knicks do with JR. And please if you want to compare these 2 guys lets look at their all around games-- lets factor in what kind of a defender and rebounder Kevin Martin is compared to JR as well.

It seems pretty much everyone puts such a heavy emphasis/concentration on offensive efficiency and offensive numbers when it pertains to 6th man candidates. How about the other facets of the game? Aren't they also very important when trying to analyze a player's skillset?

It's JR SMith and it's not even close. His all around game is much, much better than Jamal Crawford or Kevin Martin.

Kevin Martin does one thing well, but that one thing he does far, far better than Smith does. And that's score extremely efficiently. Is Smith a better rebounder and defender? Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make him the better player.

Then again, if I had to make a pick, I wouldn't chose either guy. I'd go with Jarrett Jack. He's the best defender of all four players (including Crawford), he takes over the point guard duties when Steph Curry is on the bench and even sometimes when Curry is on the floor, he can play multiple roles on offense or defense and I've seen him completely take over late in big games this year. If you want to talk about "all around game," I'm picking Jack and not thinking twice about it.

I also think Jack has made a difference in this Warriors team jumping from a cellar dweller to a postseason team. His leadership on and off the floor seems to have had a significant impact.

elledaddy
04-15-2013, 09:27 AM
Yeah it was J Crawford in a close race at the Allstar break but now it really is JR by a nice margin. Here is their stats over the last 2 months...

J Jack - 11.4 pts / 3.1 reb / 4.7 ast / 43% fg / 35% 3pt
J Crawford - 15.5 pts / 1.8 reb / 2.4 ast / 43% fg / 36% 3pt
JR Smith - 22.5 pts / 6.2 reb / 2.6 ast / 46% fg / 36 % 3pt


Yeah I would Say JR wrapped it up

omdigga
04-15-2013, 09:35 AM
JR swishhhhhhhhhhh!!

when this guy is driving to the basket, his offense is incredible to watch. the knicks regular season would be a disaster without him. he deserves it. looks like hes finally starting to figure out that thinking doesnt kill braincells.

and he should credit that award to woody, kidd, sheed, and KT.

omdigga
04-15-2013, 09:39 AM
i agree about your point on martin.

the difference to me is that if martin had a bad game, OKC still probably wins. JR has a bad game, knicks most likely lose.