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View Full Version : Knicks 16-13 with Amare, 28-13 w/o Amare



JordansBulls
03-28-2013, 03:08 PM
Knicks 16-13 with Amare
Knicks 28-13 w/o Amare


Is that a coincedence? Or are they simply better wihtout Amare around?

oak2455
03-28-2013, 03:14 PM
Ummmm someone put a hit on him ASAP ...... Dolan I'm sure has some connections

smood999
03-28-2013, 03:15 PM
coincidence...I can't fault him for anything this season other than being injured

Becks2307
03-28-2013, 03:18 PM
This season was definitely a coincidence, the team started playing badly the week before he came, not his fault at all. Kmart is amazing though

BigBlueCrew
03-28-2013, 03:18 PM
Ummmm someone put a hit on him ASAP ...... Dolan I'm sure has some connections

this x1000000

justinnum1
03-28-2013, 03:19 PM
No surprise here. Watch him come back sometime in the playoffs and the knicks go way doen hill short after.

ManRam
03-28-2013, 03:21 PM
mostly coincidence. amare played well when he was there. it's hard to imagine his good play was hurting them.

there are a ton of variables at play here too. a VERY inconsistent rotation has been thrown out there all year. along with a lot of other things like injuries, well, i'd feel uncomfortable drawing conclusions because of that

sep11ie
03-28-2013, 03:26 PM
So they have HCA without him and no HCA with him.

nycericanguy
03-28-2013, 03:28 PM
I think its mostly coincidental, but its kind of hard to ignore those numbers and the fact that Martin has been such a perfect fit at PF. Kmart has played at nearly an all star level since becoming the starter.

KnickaBocka.44
03-28-2013, 03:29 PM
Coincidence. He was playing well before having to have surgery again. He was even starting to show improvements on D...seriously, he was.

BklynKnicks3
03-28-2013, 03:30 PM
even more disturbing is when amare plays 25 min or more they are 4-8

Pierzynski4Prez
03-28-2013, 03:32 PM
So they have HCA without him and no HCA with him.

This

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 03:32 PM
Knicks 16-13 with Amare
Knicks 28-13 w/o Amare


Is that a coincedence? Or are they simply better wihtout Amare around?

Wow... Wtf happened to Amare?

Sandman
03-28-2013, 03:33 PM
the Knicks have had too many injuries to break it down like that. Its not like they were 100% in either scenario. Melo missed some of those games Amare played in as well. I don't think there's a single starter that hasn't missed at least a stretch of 5-10 games. Pretty much the whole roster outside of JR and Novak.

If you want to point to when the Knicks play well, I would say the sparkplug at the beginning was D-Leadership off the bench ---- after Rasheed Wallace that role wasn't replaced until KMart showed up. Kurt and Camby have been in and out too.

Doesn't really have anything to do with Amare and Melo and this myth they can't coexist. The myth is that they've had a healthy roster to even determine that. He might not be worth 25 mil but the efficiency he was playing with off the bench can't be knocked.

Utd7
03-28-2013, 03:55 PM
He just doesn't fit very well with us which sucks because we're on the hook for 40 mil for 2 more seasons.

GiantsSwaGG
03-28-2013, 04:16 PM
He sucks defensively

jimm120
03-28-2013, 04:39 PM
Knicks 16-13 with Amare
Knicks 28-13 w/o Amare


Is that a coincedence? Or are they simply better wihtout Amare around?

coincidence.

Take away the 18-5 start by the "without Amare" and the Knicks are 10-8.

Though all this is too general. knicks had 2 down stretches which caused such close to .500 records. Those 2 low stretches (one that lasted a month and another that had a big time losing record) are there but every other time they've played well.

bucketss
03-28-2013, 04:48 PM
its hard playing alongside a guy like melo who kills ball movement when you're amare, since he doesn't play defense or rebound he ends up hurting the team.

jimm120
03-28-2013, 04:49 PM
And after reading the topic:

-He has played well. He took 5-8 shots a game. That isn't disrupting ANY offense. His only bad stretch was at the beginning during the first week after coming back and then he had a "bad game" around the time he went down. Aside for that, he had really efficient games. Defense was improved (but still lacking, obviously).

that 16-13 mark were because of other factors.

1 - Melo was shooting 43%, after starting out the season at 49% during the 18-5 mark.
2 - JR Smith started to shoot 38% after starting the year out around 44%.
3 - Kidd wasn't making 3 pointers anymore. Literally every 3 pointer he took missed for around 2 months.
4 - INJURIES: No more sheed. No Camby for a long time. Felton went down, taking away our Driving capabilities. Amare with limited minutes.

So to me, those 4 things are what got the Knicks to 16-13 with Amare. It wasn't Amare's play or any problem co-existing. It was merely lowered production from a ton of people

Sandman
03-28-2013, 05:01 PM
Take away the 18-5 start by the "without Amare" and the Knicks are 10-8.
a winnar is you

its hard playing alongside a guy like melo who kills ball movement when you're amare, since he doesn't play defense or rebound he ends up hurting the team.
Calling ******** on this. If JR can go for 35 on a night Melo has 20 shots and Shump has 10 shots, then this isn't an issue. Melo and AI averaged 25 at the same time, two of the poster boys for this logic. If Melo has support he won't dominate the ball. Melo isn't a point guard, don't make him one.

BKLYNpigeon
03-28-2013, 05:06 PM
Knicks 16-13 with Amare
Knicks 28-13 w/o Amare


Is that a coincedence? Or are they simply better wihtout Amare around?



no,

The big difference was Rasheed Wallace. seriously.

2-ONE-5
03-28-2013, 05:35 PM
as much as i love to hate on Amare and the Knicks its just a coincidence. he played good/decent for a while when he returned but the team has declined on a monthy basis for the most part. We all knew age and the hot 3 balls would tire out eventually

Sandman
03-28-2013, 05:52 PM
no,

The big difference was Rasheed Wallace. seriously.

Agreed! K-Mart is filling the same role.

Jesse2272
03-28-2013, 06:01 PM
to many variables for that record to hold any weight

this team has not played at 100% together, everyone healthy at the same time this season to be able to properly dissect anything

we've been a straight suprise casserole all season

zn23
03-28-2013, 07:06 PM
mostly coincidence. amare played well when he was there. it's hard to imagine his good play was hurting them.

there are a ton of variables at play here too. a VERY inconsistent rotation has been thrown out there all year. along with a lot of other things like injuries, well, i'd feel uncomfortable drawing conclusions because of that

agree. He's been playing very well this year. It's more of a coincidence.

D-Leethal
03-28-2013, 07:13 PM
its hard playing alongside a guy like melo who kills ball movement when you're amare, since he doesn't play defense or rebound he ends up hurting the team.

Amare played his best off Melo, he seemed to have more chemistry with Melo than anyone else this season and Melo made more of a conscious effort to feed Amare than anyone on our team.

For the thread, I think its mostly coincidence, I think the Felton injury threw our early season momentum off more than anything, we started struggling before STAT and continued to struggle after STAT. We didn't snap out of it until KMart became a major rotational piece.

That said, while Amare played fantastic individually, he never pushed this team forward, we struggled before him but we stayed exactly the same with him - barely a .500 team. His skillset doesn't fit for the role we need in that backup sport for 25 mins so while Amare got his and was efficient as ****, we dipped in other areas, other players production dipped and the net result was pretty much nada.

Than a guy like KMart comes in who's skills filling the same role seem to push this team forward. He sparked life into the team and has without a doubt made us a much better team. STAT, regardless of how well he played on his own, never made us better.

DoMeFavors
03-28-2013, 07:17 PM
He was good his first year there and has done some stupid stuff before and after playoff games like punching the wall or trying to touch the top of backboard. Ofcourse it doesnt matter since they arent winning a championship anyway.

D-Leethal
03-28-2013, 07:18 PM
I posted in the Knicks forum a few days ago that the role we need for Amare and the makeup of our roster prevented Amare from making us better. Starting him was never a good option, the big 3 front line doesn't mesh well, its not really balanced, they just don't compliment each other all that well regardless of their +/- this year. Its an awkward fit, Melo's game always takes a hit with STAT, they have serious defensive holes as a unit that are exploited all the time, Tyson's offensive game doesn't mesh with STAT and STAT's defense pretty much cancels out the benefit of having Tyson.

Off the bench he was great, but your still in a predicament, this team plays Novak and will continue to play Novak, many think he sucks but facts is we play very well with a stretch 4, our offense is revolved around spacing, and 20 mins of Novak opens up the court. Novak can't guard 3s, STAT cannot play the 4 and crossmatch onto 3s like say a KMart would to allow Novak to match up to the 4. This means STAT is forced to play C next to Novak at 4. We all know how that works out.

Thats my explanation for why STAT performed so well individually but didn't make us better. He just doesn't have a role that fits this team and what we need from those big man spots in this rotation.

Sandman
03-28-2013, 07:46 PM
Amare played his best off Melo, he seemed to have more chemistry with Melo than anyone else this season and Melo made more of a conscious effort to feed Amare than anyone on our team.

For the thread, I think its mostly coincidence, I think the Felton injury threw our early season momentum off more than anything, we started struggling before STAT and continued to struggle after STAT. We didn't snap out of it until KMart became a major rotational piece.

That said, while Amare played fantastic individually, he never pushed this team forward, we struggled before him but we stayed exactly the same with him - barely a .500 team. His skillset doesn't fit for the role we need in that backup sport for 25 mins so while Amare got his and was efficient as ****, we dipped in other areas, other players production dipped and the net result was pretty much nada.

Than a guy like KMart comes in who's skills filling the same role seem to push this team forward. He sparked life into the team and has without a doubt made us a much better team. STAT, regardless of how well he played on his own, never made us better.
Amare would have gotten MVP votes the first half before Melo showed up.

D-Leethal
03-28-2013, 08:32 PM
Amare would have gotten MVP votes the first half before Melo showed up.

That first half season was Amare blowing his last load as an NBA superstar. A back surgery and 2 knee surgery's later and we have 20 minute limit, be-productive-on-6-to-8-touches-a-game Amare.

titan85
03-28-2013, 08:56 PM
My professor always said "correlation does not determine causation".. And I always said "The Knicks suck.." Coincidence???? ;)

TheNumber37
03-28-2013, 09:14 PM
Amare Stoudemarie! Get your Amare Stoudemarie here! This is a great deal folks you don't want wanna miss it!

My Impression of Dolan this Summer.
I hope he comes back and plays well so that some team will would want to make a deal for him. Even if we just get back 2 solid players (a big and a guard) and a bad contract (Here's looking at you Orlando - Nelson and Turk for Stat - or something).

IDunknown
03-28-2013, 09:15 PM
Coincidence. He was playing well before having to have surgery again. He was even starting to show improvements on D...seriously, he was.


the Knicks have had too many injuries to break it down like that. Its not like they were 100% in either scenario. Melo missed some of those games Amare played in as well. I don't think there's a single starter that hasn't missed at least a stretch of 5-10 games. Pretty much the whole roster outside of JR and Novak.

If you want to point to when the Knicks play well, I would say the sparkplug at the beginning was D-Leadership off the bench ---- after Rasheed Wallace that role wasn't replaced until KMart showed up. Kurt and Camby have been in and out too.

Doesn't really have anything to do with Amare and Melo and this myth they can't coexist. The myth is that they've had a healthy roster to even determine that. He might not be worth 25 mil but the efficiency he was playing with off the bench can't be knocked.

He played alot at center while Novak,and Copeland (two horrible defenders)were the forwards and he still looked like he improved his defense.He was having no problem running the pick and roll while Melo, and Chandler were also on the court.

sep11ie
03-28-2013, 09:30 PM
He sucks defensively

Quick, somebody get Captain Obvious here a cookie before his momma puts him to bed.

xxplayerxx23
03-28-2013, 09:33 PM
Quick, somebody get Captain Obvious here a cookie before his momma puts him to bed.

*hands giants#1fan a cookie*

knicks=love
03-28-2013, 10:13 PM
He was good his first year there and has done some stupid stuff before and after playoff games like punching the wall or trying to touch the top of backboard. Ofcourse it doesnt matter since they arent winning a championship anyway.

oh because the nets are.. sorry, i forgot it's your world and we're all just living in it.

Kashmir13579
03-28-2013, 10:21 PM
STAT can't stay healthy long enough to actually know the answer to this question. I don't buy it though. A healthy Amar'e is an unstoppable offensive force. If they lose with him in the line-up, its a Knicks problem - not an Amar'e problem. Its not as if the Knicks defense took a dive when Amar'e came back, the defense sucked the entire time.

hgmjbkfm
03-28-2013, 10:57 PM
Dolan I'm sure has some connectionshttp://www.xbth.info/3g.jpg

JC_
03-29-2013, 12:28 AM
The Knicks are an adrenaline team and that kind of a team can't play a full season without some kind of fire lit under their ***** every game. This is why a lot of people expected them to start sucking at some point during the season, with or without Amare.

MetroMan
03-29-2013, 12:30 AM
Quick, somebody get Captain Obvious here a cookie before his momma puts him to bed.

that is some funny ****

LOOTERX9
03-29-2013, 12:34 AM
The moral of this story is that The Knicks are better without Amare

jam
03-29-2013, 08:05 AM
The moral of this story is that the knicks will always be a pile of crap with dolan as team owner.

/thread.

Backstabber
03-29-2013, 08:31 AM
Coincidence. Knicks would be a much better team with a healthy Amare playing 2010 mode. Amare just can't stay on the court. He's hell when he's well, but he's sick all the time.

D-Leethal
03-29-2013, 09:43 AM
STAT can't stay healthy long enough to actually know the answer to this question. I don't buy it though. A healthy Amar'e is an unstoppable offensive force. If they lose with him in the line-up, its a Knicks problem - not an Amar'e problem. Its not as if the Knicks defense took a dive when Amar'e came back, the defense sucked the entire time.

But it didn't get better until we replaced that role, which Wallace once filled with great team success (and defensive success), with a versatile, tough defender who you don't run plays or forcefeed buckets on offense. Amare and his efficient scoring and awful D is not a good fit in that backup F/C role for 25 mins. Its not a problem with the Knicks that we play better with great defenders than an efficient paint scorer in the backup spot, thats just the reality of the Knicks. Its not a problem with Amare either, its just a bad fit and creates an awkward dynamic that every team in the league has easily exploited for the past 2 years. It has to do with the makeup of our roster more than anything. Sometimes players just don't fit.

Stressindecade
03-29-2013, 12:10 PM
But it didn't get better until we replaced that role, which Wallace once filled with great team success (and defensive success), with a versatile, tough defender who you don't run plays or forcefeed buckets on offense. Amare and his efficient scoring and awful D is not a good fit in that backup F/C role for 25 mins. Its not a problem with the Knicks that we play better with great defenders than an efficient paint scorer in the backup spot, thats just the reality of the Knicks. Its not a problem with Amare either, its just a bad fit and creates an awkward dynamic that every team in the league has easily exploited for the past 2 years.


The Amare situation is the same exact situation the Denver Nuggets had when they signed Kenyon Martin to a max contract .. ISO-Melo slowing down the offense for 48 minutes to average 30 pts per game, put Kenyon Martin status on injury-prone.

Kenyon Martin gave up the rookie of the year award b/c Marbury did the same ole thing on the Nets.
Amare sat on the injured-list for a month before Phoenix traded Marbury to the Knicks, and for some uncalled reason Amare became healthy to play a week after the Marbury trade.

The conspiracy is written on the Knicks wall after the Melo-trade, when the ball bounce to a slow halfcourt-offense Iso-Melo vs a run-run uptempo Amare.
Owner Dolan personally did the Melo-trade .. making the Knicks Melo's team!

Who is coaching the Knicks?
A) Woodson
B) Melo
C) Melo & Woodson

The coaching has a lot to do with the injuries .. from Billups & Amare injury in same game, to Lin & Amare injury in the same game, to Rasheed injury a game after the 18-5 start, to Camby injury on Honeynutcheerios, to Amare outstanding performance in the 22 comeback win wearing a Koolade smile with reporters after the game, then to be told he is injured too...

D-Leethal
03-29-2013, 12:15 PM
The Amare situation is the same exact situation the Denver Nuggets had when they signed Kenyon Martin to a max contract .. ISO-Melo slowing down the offense for 48 minutes to average 30 pts per game, put Kenyon Martin status on injury-prone.

Kenyon Martin gave up the rookie of the year award b/c Marbury did the same ole thing on the Nets.
Amare sat on the injured-list for a month before Phoenix traded Marbury to the Knicks, and for some uncalled reason Amare became healthy to play a week after the Marbury trade.

The conspiracy is written on the Knicks wall after the Melo-trade, when the ball bounce to a slow halfcourt-offense Iso-Melo vs a run-run uptempo Amare.
Owner Dolan personally did the Melo-trade .. making the Knicks Melo's team!

Who is coaching the Knicks?
A) Woodson
B) Melo
C) Melo & Woodson

The coaching has a lot to do with the injuries .. from Billups & Amare injury in same game, to Lin & Amare injury in the same game, to Rasheed injury a game after the 18-5 start, to Camby injury on Honeynutcheerios, to Amare outstanding performance in the 22 comeback win wearing a Koolade smile with reporters after the game, then to be told he is injured too...

Not one thing you wrote has to do with my post you quoted. What does any of this have to do with the fact that our team never played better with Amare despite his individual brilliance?

97NYer
03-29-2013, 01:13 PM
You can't really blame losses on a teams 7th man.

D-Leethal
03-29-2013, 01:17 PM
You can't really blame losses on a teams 7th man.

But you can note how those losses seem to disappear whenever we have had a defensive big capable of anchoring the second unit in that 7th man spot. They didn't disappear when STAT filled that role. They did when Wallace and Martin did.

Sandman
03-29-2013, 03:10 PM
The Amare situation is the same exact situation the Denver Nuggets had when they signed Kenyon Martin to a max contract .. ISO-Melo slowing down the offense for 48 minutes to average 30 pts per game, put Kenyon Martin status on injury-prone.
First things first, obviously he doesn't do it for 48 minutes.

Second -- is it Melo slowing things down or Denver relying on him because they didn't have anything else?

CostanzaNumba0
03-29-2013, 03:25 PM
First things first, obviously he doesn't do it for 48 minutes.

Second -- is it Melo slowing things down or Denver relying on him because they didn't have anything else?

Those nuggets teams were loaded...

Sandman
03-29-2013, 03:28 PM
Those nuggets teams were loaded...

with scorers though?

CostanzaNumba0
03-29-2013, 03:34 PM
with scorers though?

Allen Iverson wasn't a scorer? Chauncey? Afflalo?

Sandman
03-29-2013, 03:44 PM
Allen Iverson wasn't a scorer? Chauncey? Afflalo?

Agreed but those guys also saw the ball and got results. You could add JR too. I thought we were talking about the other years.

Can't say Melo stopped the ball if he and AI averaged 26 at the same time & he got to the WCF with Chauncey and lost to champion LA 4-2.

CostanzaNumba0
03-29-2013, 03:46 PM
Agreed but those guys also saw results. I kind of assumed he meant the other years.

Can't say Melo stopped the ball if he and AI averaged 26 at the same time & he got to the WCF with Chauncey and lost to champion LA 4-2.
You saying that melo doesn't stop the ball is a losing argument, he has the highest usage rate in the nba.

D-Leethal
03-29-2013, 03:48 PM
he has the highest usage rate in the nba.

On the 5th best offensive team in the NBA.

Sandman
03-29-2013, 03:51 PM
You saying that melo doesn't stop the ball is a losing argument, he has the highest usage rate in the nba.
and what I'm trying to tell you is the only way to take the ball out of his hands is to put other guys on the team that can score.

The 07-08 season was the most efficient season Anthony (49%) OR AI (45%) ever had.

CostanzaNumba0
03-29-2013, 03:52 PM
On the 5th best offensive team in the NBA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_Elenchi

CostanzaNumba0
03-29-2013, 03:52 PM
and what I'm trying to tell you is the only way to take the ball out of his hands is to put other guys on the team that can score.

The 07-08 season was the most efficient season Anthony (49%) OR AI (45%) ever had.

But there are other guys on the knicks that can score

Sandman
03-29-2013, 04:28 PM
But there are other guys on the knicks that can score
You have JR & thats about it. And even the other night, Melo took 20 shots, Shump took 10 shots and JR still scored 35.

CostanzaNumba0
03-29-2013, 04:54 PM
You have JR & thats about it. And even the other night, Melo took 20 shots, Shump took 10 shots and JR still scored 35.

novak needs shots, felton needs to dribble penetrate, copeland can score, its not just belo and jr. Shump should also be getting 8-10 shots a game, especially since hes shown a propensity for hitting threes this year

Sandman
03-29-2013, 05:20 PM
novak needs shots, felton needs to dribble penetrate, copeland can score, its not just belo and jr. Shump should also be getting 8-10 shots a game, especially since hes shown a propensity for hitting threes this year

Novak can't create for himself, are you kidding? He can only get the ball when hes open. You give him the ball instead of Melo and he loses it.

We see what happens to Felton when he shoots a lot. Averaged 7-19 in January, 6-14 in December, 4.5-11 in February and now 4.9-10.2 in March. He's a bottom 5-10 PG it is what it is. Not in a rush to give him more touches.

Would love to see Shumpert shooting more 3s. I don't know how you expect him to get 10 shots in 20 MPG tho I don't think thats realistic.

KnicksorBust
03-29-2013, 05:23 PM
He plays terrible defense and he and Melo's games clash. End of story.

Lord Leoshes
03-30-2013, 04:56 PM
He needs to be amnestied over the summer.

AI
03-30-2013, 05:06 PM
He needs to be amnestied over the summer.

Knicks already used their amnesty on Billups. We're stuck with Amare until he becomes an expiring.

EnWhyKay
03-31-2013, 12:01 AM
My professor always said "correlation does not determine causation".. And I always said "The Knicks suck.." Coincidence???? ;)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EnWhyKay
03-31-2013, 12:02 AM
STAT can't stay healthy long enough to actually know the answer to this question. I don't buy it though. A healthy Amar'e is an unstoppable offensive force. If they lose with him in the line-up, its a Knicks problem - not an Amar'e problem. Its not as if the Knicks defense took a dive when Amar'e came back, the defense sucked the entire time.

!!!!!!!!!!!

EnWhyKay
03-31-2013, 12:04 AM
And after reading the topic:

-He has played well. He took 5-8 shots a game. That isn't disrupting ANY offense. His only bad stretch was at the beginning during the first week after coming back and then he had a "bad game" around the time he went down. Aside for that, he had really efficient games. Defense was improved (but still lacking, obviously).

that 16-13 mark were because of other factors.

1 - Melo was shooting 43%, after starting out the season at 49% during the 18-5 mark.
2 - JR Smith started to shoot 38% after starting the year out around 44%.
3 - Kidd wasn't making 3 pointers anymore. Literally every 3 pointer he took missed for around 2 months.
4 - INJURIES: No more sheed. No Camby for a long time. Felton went down, taking away our Driving capabilities. Amare with limited minutes.

So to me, those 4 things are what got the Knicks to 16-13 with Amare. It wasn't Amare's play or any problem co-existing. It was merely lowered production from a ton of people

!!!!!!!

Cromedome
03-31-2013, 12:08 AM
Stat off the bench is where he should stay his entire career (or as long as he's with the Knicks).

Kenny
03-31-2013, 01:18 AM
You realize Felton got injured right before Amare came back right? Amare played a third of his games with 40 year old Kidd as the point guard. Kidd still brings a lot to the table but he isn't a point guard anymore.

Also Amare was playing at a really high level and the Knicks were starting to roll right before he got injured.

The truth on Amare is he can still be a dominant scorer when he is given the minutes and is being featured which you saw when Melo was out. If you put him on the Bobcats next year he would average 22-25 a game given the minutes. The problem is i'm not sure he can consistently play those minutes anymore and stay on the floor.

Amare being a 20 minute role player is where things go bad because he doesn't do the little things well where he is going to effect the game without scoring and getting touches.

Thats the major problem. I would bet anything though if he went on a bad team next year he can average big numbers still.

EnWhyKay
03-31-2013, 12:30 PM
You realize Felton got injured right before Amare came back right? Amare played a third of his games with 40 year old Kidd as the point guard. Kidd still brings a lot to the table but he isn't a point guard anymore.

Also Amare was playing at a really high level and the Knicks were starting to roll right before he got injured.

The truth on Amare is he can still be a dominant scorer when he is given the minutes and is being featured which you saw when Melo was out. If you put him on the Bobcats next year he would average 22-25 a game given the minutes. The problem is i'm not sure he can consistently play those minutes anymore and stay on the floor.

Amare being a 20 minute role player is where things go bad because he doesn't do the little things well where he is going to effect the game without scoring and getting touches.

Thats the major problem. I would bet anything though if he went on a bad team next year he can average big numbers still.

Totally agree...

I say if he can get healthy.. You start him and feature him within that offense and let Melo play off of Amar'e. When Stat sits you slide Melo to the 4 and feature Melo... It's a simple concept honestly... Which is contingent on Stoudemire staying healthy...

jimm120
03-31-2013, 01:10 PM
And after reading the topic:

-He has played well. He took 5-8 shots a game. That isn't disrupting ANY offense. His only bad stretch was at the beginning during the first week after coming back and then he had a "bad game" around the time he went down. Aside for that, he had really efficient games. Defense was improved (but still lacking, obviously).

that 16-13 mark were because of other factors.

1 - Melo was shooting 43%, after starting out the season at 49% during the 18-5 mark.
2 - JR Smith started to shoot 38% after starting the year out around 44%.
3 - Kidd wasn't making 3 pointers anymore. Literally every 3 pointer he took missed for around 2 months.
4 - INJURIES: No more sheed. No Camby for a long time. Felton went down, taking away our Driving capabilities. Amare with limited minutes.

So to me, those 4 things are what got the Knicks to 16-13 with Amare. It wasn't Amare's play or any problem co-existing. It was merely lowered production from a ton of people


!!!!!!!


I know...so much sense


that 16-13 mark were because of other factors.

1 - Melo was shooting 43%, after starting out the season at 49% during the 18-5 mark.
2 - JR Smith started to shoot 38% after starting the year out around 44%.
3 - Kidd wasn't making 3 pointers anymore. Literally every 3 pointer he took missed for around 2 months.
4 - INJURIES: No more sheed. No Camby for a long time. Felton went down, taking away our Driving capabilities. Amare with limited minutes.

jimm120
03-31-2013, 01:15 PM
Totally agree...

I say if he can get healthy.. You start him and feature him within that offense and let Melo play off of Amar'e. When Stat sits you slide Melo to the 4 and feature Melo... It's a simple concept honestly... Which is contingent on Stoudemire staying healthy...


I honestly don't know still. I still think Stat is perfect to come off the bench. Still, 5-6 minutes per quarter shouldn't harm his production.

But this means that Melo will always be sharing. First with Amare and then with JR.

If things go how it was, its Melo, then Melo/JR and Melo/Amare.

Who knows.

EnWhyKay
03-31-2013, 03:55 PM
I honestly don't know still. I still think Stat is perfect to come off the bench. Still, 5-6 minutes per quarter shouldn't harm his production.

But this means that Melo will always be sharing. First with Amare and then with JR.

If things go how it was, its Melo, then Melo/JR and Melo/Amare.

Who knows.

The reason why I like Amar'e is because of his good pick and roll game.. And his new and improved post game. Outside of Amar'e.. Melo is the only guy with a post game on the knicks. In the playoffs you need points in the paint. JR is going to the hole now so that will get us some points in the paint and some free throw opportunities. But if you run it through stat you put an immense amount of pressure on the defenses because you can't just let him go 1v1.. He can kill you. So teams have to double and when you swing and give Melo the ball against a rotating defense.. Mismatches get created and Melo can go off..

D-Leethal
03-31-2013, 04:04 PM
The reason why I like Amar'e is because of his good pick and roll game.. And his new and improved post game. Outside of Amar'e.. Melo is the only guy with a post game on the knicks. In the playoffs you need points in the paint. JR is going to the hole now so that will get us some points in the paint and some free throw opportunities. But if you run it through stat you put an immense amount of pressure on the defenses because you can't just let him go 1v1.. He can kill you. So teams have to double and when you swing and give Melo the ball against a rotating defense.. Mismatches get created and Melo can go off..

But dude honestly there might not be a guy in this league who passes out of doubles and triples in the post LESS than STAT. He has worse tunnelvision than Melo down there. All that sounds nice in theory but I don't think were ever going to see that inside out combo you envision for a multitude of reasons. Amare is a finisher, not a guy who's gonna read double teams and kick out to the open man.

You use him to finish plays off ball movement, not initiate the ball movement.

EnWhyKay
03-31-2013, 04:14 PM
But dude honestly there might not be a guy in this league who passes out of doubles and triples in the post LESS than STAT. He has worse tunnelvision than Melo down there. All that sounds nice in theory but I don't think were ever going to see that inside out combo you envision for a multitude of reasons. Amare is a finisher, not a guy who's gonna read double teams and kick out to the open man.

You use him to finish plays off ball movement, not initiate the ball movement.

That is wholly incorrect.. I can remember Amar'e passing very well out of the double team.. I remember him hitting Jason kidd in the corner for wide open looks.. I also remember him hitting Tyson Chandler for Dunks and layups the way Bynum and Gasol used to do it for the Lakers during their run. You watch just as much of the Knicks as I do. I know you dont really believe in the Melo and Amar'e pairing and for good reason. But please dont let your bias distort the truth.. Stat can pass out of the double team and he has shown this much..

I am just disappointed in the fact that Amar'e has been hurt all this time.. Had Amar'e, Melo, and Tyson been healthy since they were paired together. By now they would be humming.. They have only played in slightly over 50% of the games since they were assembled. It's hard to establish roles and build chemistry that way..