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BklynKnicks3
03-28-2013, 12:41 PM
I say yes with a healthy wade n bosh.

raiderposting
03-28-2013, 12:43 PM
No way

blams
03-28-2013, 12:43 PM
No chance

lol, please
03-28-2013, 12:45 PM
Easily. Bosh and Wade carry that team. Further testament to how overrated Lebron is.

BklynKnicks3
03-28-2013, 12:47 PM
My whole point how can u give mvp to some one because they are the best player its not what the award means. His team is way to loaded. This heat team is still better then the heat team that won with shaq without lebron

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 12:48 PM
Not even close.

KnickaBocka.44
03-28-2013, 12:48 PM
Healthy Wade = Oxymoron. So, no.

LAKobeBryant
03-28-2013, 12:49 PM
Better than NY w/o melo

ManRam
03-28-2013, 12:50 PM
he's their best scorer, passer, rebounder and defender. he plays a different role almost every night.

the east is down, but without lebron you're gonna have some crappy players logging a lot more minutes. i don't think there is a chance they're the best team without him. they don't have guys who can replace what he does.

tiny sample size, but the Heat are 2-5 without lebron since he went there

23-7 without Wade

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 12:52 PM
he's their best scorer, passer, rebounder and defender. he plays a different role almost every night.

the east is down, but without lebron you're gonna have some crappy players logging a lot more minutes. i don't think there is a chance they're the best team without him. they don't have guys who can replace what he does.

People forget LeBron is their PG/SF/PF/C, he rebounds, passes, defends, motivates. That Heat team is probably an 8th seed w/o him. Dwayne Wade is a great player, he ain't LeBron and even he said that.

K.I.N.G.
03-28-2013, 12:52 PM
Lebron IS the team, so no.

jasondrobinson
03-28-2013, 12:56 PM
They'd be in a 3 way battle with pacers and knicks but i still think they would be 1st

mngopher35
03-28-2013, 12:57 PM
People forget LeBron is their PG/SF/PF/C, he rebounds, passes, defends, motivates. That Heat team is probably an 8th seed w/o him. Dwayne Wade is a great player, he ain't LeBron and even he said that.

Not in the east. I think without Lebron they are about on par with the nets. So they would probably be a 3-5 seed in the east imo.

papipapsmanny
03-28-2013, 12:58 PM
again if they used the cap space that lebron would free up if he weren't there for something good than yes they would still be the best team.

They would have a top 3 SG and top 3 PF in the league on the team.

Tymathee
03-28-2013, 01:00 PM
I say yes with a healthy wade n bosh.

o.O seriously? They're a mediocre team without Lebron dude, they were a lotto team with just wade, Bosh couldn't win in Toronto even when they had talent and the Heat's true potential didn't get realized until Lebron, not Wade took over...dont kid urself.

LongIslandIcedZ
03-28-2013, 01:02 PM
No way. Lebron is too good. I would like to see Lebron miss a year, just to see how the Heat play without him. He's their best scorer/passer/rebounder/defender. I think their a 4/5 seed without Lebron.

mngopher35
03-28-2013, 01:02 PM
My whole point how can u give mvp to some one because they are the best player its not what the award means. His team is way to loaded. This heat team is still better then the heat team that won with shaq without lebron

MVP is pretty much always given to the best player on one of the top 5 or so teams. Lebron is the best player in the league and his team is at the top. I agree that doesn't always get you the actual mvp but that is how it's always done. Either way this year Lebron has been the best player, leading the best team, and his team had a 27 game win streak. I don't think there really is an argument for anyone else (durant has westbrook and ibaka and he is the next best player).

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 01:02 PM
Easily. Bosh and Wade carry that team. Further testament to how overrated Lebron is.

This. The Heat are the most stacked team ever in the weakest east of all time.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 01:04 PM
Not in the east. I think without Lebron they are about on par with the nets. So they would probably be a 3-5 seed in the east imo.

w/o LeBron, Philly can beat them, the Knicks trounce them, Chicago owns them, Indy beats them, Nets would beat them, Orlando would be on par w/ them, Washington beats them, Cleveland beats them, Boston trounces them, Toronto competes w/ them, Atlanta beats them. I gave you 11 teams in the east, they'd see 3-4 times a year. 44 gms. lets say they go .500 just hypothetically. 22-22, you think that team breaks .500 vs the West? That's an 8th seed w/o LeBron, it's almost like the Lakers are now.

ManRam
03-28-2013, 01:08 PM
i think essentially they're about where the bulls are.

wade and bosh are arguably (wade definitely is) better than anyone on the heat. so they have a better star. but the bulls have a much better team and a group of guys who can do a lot of different and important things. losing rose isn't changing their defense; losing lebron does. losing rose isn't changing their rebounding; losing lebron does. losing lebron isn't gonna hurt the heat's scoring as much as losing rose did, which is probably similar in terms of importance.

the bulls hold onto much of their keys to success: defense, rebounding and coaching....whereas the heat lose a more important player all-around, but have the star to pick up for it.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 01:09 PM
i think essentially they're about where the bulls are.

wade and bosh are arguably (wade definitely is) better than anyone on the heat. so they have a better star. but the bulls have a much better team and a group of guys who can do a lot of different and important things. losing rose isn't changing their defense; losing lebron does. losing rose isn't changing their rebounding; losing lebron does. losing lebron isn't gonna hurt the heat's scoring as much as losing rose did, which is probably similar in terms of importance.

the bulls hold onto much of their keys to success: defense, rebounding and coaching....whereas the heat lose a more important player all-around, but have the star to pick up for it.

be honest you'd be fighting for #8 or 7th seed.

Sactown
03-28-2013, 01:12 PM
This. The Heat are the most stacked team ever in the weakest east of all time.

Seriously? You must not watch a lot of basketball if you think the heat are the most stacked team ever...

nycericanguy
03-28-2013, 01:13 PM
Interesting question, at first glance you say no way. But then you consider, they'd still have the best player in the East in Wade, and the best PF in the East in Bosh. Wade & Bosh is probably the best duo in the East. Melo & Chandler, Pierce & Garnett, George & West, Deron & Brook... I think I'd take Wade & Bosh over all those duos, maybe CHandler & Melo compete but that's about it.

Surrounded with smart role players like Battier & Allen, and a decent PG in Chalmers who would take on a bigger role.

They'd adjust and be a 50 win team more or less, which would have them competing with NY & IND right now for the #1 seed.

Just goes to show you the amount of talent Lebron surrounded himself with.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 01:14 PM
Seriously? You must not watch a lot of basketball if you think the heat are the most stacked team ever...

look at the Heat w/ no LeBron for a season.

Birdman
Bosh
Battier
Wade
Chalmers

that team is an 8th seed.

blahblahyoutoo
03-28-2013, 01:15 PM
3-4 seed w/out lebron.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 01:16 PM
3-4 seed w/out lebron.

who are you 3-4'ing over. List the top 6.

nycericanguy
03-28-2013, 01:16 PM
look at the Heat w/ no LeBron for a season.

Birdman
Bosh
Battier
Wade
Chalmers

that team is an 8th seed.

Wade alone had MIA at around 42 wins, add in Bosh & Ray Allen and you think they would be on par with MIL who has no one even on Bosh's level, let alone Wade? No way...

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 01:19 PM
Wade alone had MIA at around 42 wins, add in Bosh & Ray Allen and you think they would be on par with MIL who has no one even on Bosh's level, let alone Wade? No way...

that was a different East. That was Pat Riley, Shaq was also there and Mourning.

Tony_Starks
03-28-2013, 01:21 PM
In this years east? Easily. There are 7 teams in the east on pace to lose 50 + games this year! I'm not sure but I think that's a record. Teams they face 3-4 times.

More shots for Wade, Bosh and Ray. More minutes for Miller, Cole, and Lewis= best in a Rose-less east.

LakersIn5
03-28-2013, 01:22 PM
no. 1st seed would be the team that gets lebron assuming he stays east

Avenged
03-28-2013, 01:22 PM
I think they would still have HCA for one round at least.. Probably a 4th seed.

nycericanguy
03-28-2013, 01:24 PM
that was a different East. That was Pat Riley, Shaq was also there and Mourning.

Take away Lebron and Wade is still the best player in the East, Bosh is still the best PF in the east.

You're suggesting a team with Wade, Bosh & Allen would be a borderline lottery team competing with Jennings and the Bucks? I think you need to rethink that.

ATL, MIL, CHI, IND, BK (w/o Rose) & BOS have no one on Wade's level or even close. Heck ATL, MIL don't even have someone on Bosh's level. And Ray Allen would probably be an 18ppg scorer in MIL and their best player.

Lebron adds 15-17 wins to MIA, but they are still a 50 win team w/o him.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 01:26 PM
In this years east? Easily. There are 7 teams in the east on pace to lose 50 + games this year! I'm not sure but I think that's a record. Teams they face 3-4 times.

More shots for Wade, Bosh and Ray. More minutes for Miller, Cole, and Lewis= best in a Rose-less east.

No they mean healthy East. Just no LeBron.

Heat no LeBron for a year w/ that lineup aren't even better than the LA Lakers or Mavs

1- Chicago
2- Boston
3- Indiana
4- Brooklyn
5- New York
6- Atlanta
7-
8-

Who are the Heat breaking in that top 6 group? healthy Rose, Deron Williams, stacked Pacers, fast paced Hawks and lets not forget the Sixers and Bucks.

ghettosean
03-28-2013, 01:27 PM
o.O seriously? They're a mediocre team without Lebron dude, they were a lotto team with just wade, Bosh couldn't win in Toronto even when they had talent and the Heat's true potential didn't get realized until Lebron, not Wade took over...dont kid urself.

Wade did not have other hall of famers like Ray Allen and CB4 maybe even Battier might make it (nevermind adding in a good role player like Birdman) on his squad when the heat were a lotto team so your comparison doesn't hold much weight with me.

Big Zo
03-28-2013, 01:27 PM
Didn't the OP recently state that he wasn't gonna hate on LeBron anymore because his "girlfriend" cheated on him, or some b.s. like that?

ghettosean
03-28-2013, 01:28 PM
Take away Lebron and Wade is still the best player in the East, Bosh is still the best PF in the east.

You're suggesting a team with Wade, Bosh & Allen would be a borderline lottery team competing with Jennings and the Bucks? I think you need to rethink that.

ATL, MIL, CHI, IND, BK (w/o Rose) & BOS have no one on Wade's level or even close. Heck ATL, MIL don't even have someone on Bosh's level. And Ray Allen would probably be an 18ppg scorer in MIL and their best player.

Lebron adds 15-17 wins to MIA, but they are still a 50 win team w/o him.

This I agree fully... I think people forget really quickly that 3 of the top 10 players in the NBA joined together to make a superteam.

LBJ was 1 and Wade was arguably the #2 unless you put D12 ahead so yes I believe they would still be at the top of the east if LBJ was not on the squad.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 01:28 PM
ATL, MIL, CHI, IND, BK (w/o Rose) & BOS have no one on Wade's level or even close. Heck ATL, MIL don't even have someone on Bosh's level. And Ray Allen would probably be an 18ppg scorer in MIL and their best player.

Lebron adds 15-17 wins to MIA, but they are still a 50 win team w/o him.

Wade isn't that great. He can score but he ain't efficient. Great defender but now you have Bosh and Wade and a bunch of scabs other than Ray Allen.

justinnum1
03-28-2013, 01:29 PM
ATL, MIL, CHI, IND, BK (w/o Rose) & BOS have no one on Wade's level or even close. Heck ATL, MIL don't even have someone on Bosh's level. And Ray Allen would probably be an 18ppg scorer in MIL and their best player.

Lebron adds 15-17 wins to MIA, but they are still a 50 win team w/o him.

Wade isn't that great. He can score but he ain't efficient. Great defender but now you have Bosh and Wade and a bunch of scabs other than Ray Allen.:facepalm:

numba1CHANGsta
03-28-2013, 01:31 PM
Well the East sucks, so top 3 for sure

nycericanguy
03-28-2013, 01:34 PM
Wade isn't that great. He can score but he ain't efficient. Great defender but now you have Bosh and Wade and a bunch of scabs other than Ray Allen.

:confused:

ghettosean
03-28-2013, 01:34 PM
Well the East sucks, so top 3 for sure

And this ;)

nycericanguy
03-28-2013, 01:35 PM
:confused:

I really can't even think of a wing player in the east that is as efficient as Wade.

kozelkid
03-28-2013, 01:37 PM
Maybe four years ago, but Wade isn't capable of being the top guy anymore throughout an entire season with his questionable durability. Factor in their poor supporting cast, and there's no way they can come even close to replacing all the production that Lebron provides.

Faneik
03-28-2013, 01:39 PM
56-15 with him

My speculation is 40-31 without him.

That would make them the 5th seed.

nycericanguy
03-28-2013, 01:40 PM
Maybe four years ago, but Wade isn't capable of being the top guy anymore throughout an entire season with his questionable durability. Factor in their poor supporting cast, and there's no way they can come even close to replacing all the production that Lebron provides.

They wouldn't have to.

MIA is going to win around 65 games this year... NY & IND around 50... they can take a huge hit and still be #1

The talent level gap between MIA & the rest of the east is huge

Tony_Starks
03-28-2013, 01:40 PM
Wade isn't that great. He can score but
he ain't efficient. Great defender but now you have Bosh and Wade and a bunch of scabs other than Ray Allen.

Wow. If you think Chalmers, Cole, Battier, Miller, Lewis, Birdman, are a bunch of scabs I don't know what to tell you man.....

It's crazy how much people sleep on MIA role players. Remember Miller in the finals? Or the difference it's made since they signed Birdman?

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 01:41 PM
Seriously? You must not watch a lot of basketball if you think the heat are the most stacked team ever...

I watch basketball religiously. They are One of the most stacked teams ever, and that's a fact.

todu82
03-28-2013, 01:42 PM
Nope, they'd still be good but not 1st in the East good.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 01:43 PM
look at the Heat w/ no LeBron for a season.

Birdman
Bosh
Battier
Wade
Chalmers

that team is an 8th seed.

You're classing that team with the Milwaukee Bucks? The MILWAUKEE BUCKS? *Stephen A. Smith voice* the MILWAUKEE BUCKS? Dude you must be out of your mind.

Chris Bosh is 25 and 12 waiting to happen and Wade can STILL get you a efficient 26, 5 and 7 if need be. That team is a top 3 team in the East without LeBron (and assuming Wade's and Bosh's healthy).

What they aren't however is legitimate title contenders (like the Spurs and OKC), you know what the Bulls are considered.

It seems like no one can be truthful and realistic about this. Wade = 1A/B/C SG in today's NBA Bosh = a top 5 PF and on a good night the best PF in today's NBA there is no way in hell that team is a #8 seed in the Eastern Conference.

nycericanguy
03-28-2013, 01:45 PM
Wow. If you think Chalmers, Cole, Battier, Miller, Lewis, Birdman, are a bunch of scabs I don't know what to tell you man.....

It's crazy how much people sleep on MIA role players. Remember Miller in the finals? Or the difference it's made since they signed Birdman?

Agreed, theres only so many points a team can score. Role players go to MIA and don't put up numbers so people think they suck. But Ray Allen is still a 15ppg scorer if you put him on another team. Wade can put up an efficient 25ppg, Bosh 20-22ppg. Chalmers actually running PG is a 12ppg kinda guy...etc...

MIA actually has a pretty decent supporting cast.

Look at the Knicks, we had to run out a lineup of Kurt Thomas, Kenyon Martin, James White, Pablo & Felton when we had injuries.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 01:45 PM
Wade isn't that great. He can score but he ain't efficient. Great defender but now you have Bosh and Wade and a bunch of scabs other than Ray Allen.

I can't remember seeing you ever before but how on earth do you make it to damn near 20,000 posts in 6 years and still think like this?

TmacBryant
03-28-2013, 01:45 PM
I say yes with a healthy wade n bosh.

They rely on Lebron way too much so no. It is like when Shaq left the lakers, they sucked not only because Shaq was so dominate, but they built their team around him. I mean going from Shaq to Chris Mimh... gg.

Sactown
03-28-2013, 01:46 PM
I watch basketball religiously. They are One of the most stacked teams ever, and that's a fact.

What are the 2004 Lakers then?

Gary Payton
Kobe Bryant
D. George
Karl Malone
Shaq.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 01:47 PM
Wow. If you think Chalmers, Cole, Battier, Miller, Lewis, Birdman, are a bunch of scabs I don't know what to tell you man.....

It's crazy how much people sleep on MIA role players. Remember Miller in the finals? Or the difference it's made since they signed Birdman?

Chalmers and Cole are too of the most overrated players they have. Lewis isn't much. Birdman is hot and cold.

You take LeBron out and Wade is majority offense. Heat lose a rebounder, Wade has to play PG more, b/c Chalmers stinks not to mention you lose LeBron's impact defensively. Teams would just press Wade and make Bosh beat them. And to be honest that just puts them on equal footing. They'd lose. I dare you to tell me a team in the east they 'd take 3 out of 4 against.

29$JerZ
03-28-2013, 01:48 PM
They'd easily be a Top 3 East team still.
Wade/Bosh is enough in the East to stay on top. They would look like a completely different team though, no LeBron means you lose basically 60% of what makes that offense/defense work.

It still would have been nice to see LeBron and Wade have their own team instead of the pairing, dilutes the hell out of the parity in the East.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 01:50 PM
look at the Heat w/ no LeBron for a season.

Birdman
Bosh
Battier
Wade
Chalmers

that team is an 8th seed.

8th seed in the East?:facepalm:

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 01:52 PM
Well the East sucks, so top 3 for sure

^

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 01:52 PM
As for the OP.

You know what makes LeBron THE MVP? This is what? Are the Heat in your opinion legitimate threats to the Thunder, Spurs and Clippers without LeBron?

KnickaBocka.44
03-28-2013, 01:54 PM
They wouldn't have to.

MIA is going to win around 65 games this year... NY & IND around 50... they can take a huge hit and still be #1

The talent level gap between MIA & the rest of the east is huge

Thats not any way to look at it. You're just making a guess.

How much of Lebron's 27 points and 7 assists do you think the rest of the Heat team could make up for?

Because the Heat's point differential is about +8 for the season so if we figure out how much production they lose we can go through the schedule and figure out which games they would lose.

ATX
03-28-2013, 01:55 PM
8th seed in the East?:facepalm:

I know your motives differ from mine in this respect, but hey man, I finaly agree with you! I'd say they would be a top 4 seed easy in the East.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 01:55 PM
Chalmers and Cole are too of the most overrated players they have. Lewis isn't much. Birdman is hot and cold.

You take LeBron out and Wade is majority offense. Heat lose a rebounder, Wade has to play PG more, b/c Chalmers stinks not to mention you lose LeBron's impact defensively. Teams would just press Wade and make Bosh beat them. And to be honest that just puts them on equal footing. They'd lose. I dare you to tell me a team in the east they 'd take 3 out of 4 against.

Do you know what role Wade had in the Heat's offense when the won the title in 06? Do you know what position Wade played for his entire rookie season?

I REFUSE to believe you've been an NBA fan since 07 because to me it seems as if you've only started watching basketball since the Heat's streak has started.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 01:56 PM
With LeBron on the Bench Wade averages 27.8, 5.8 and 5.1 per36 (http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player-vs-player.html#Dwyane-Wade-vs-LeBron-James|2548,2544;year=201213;season=r) on elite efficiency for a 2 guard. Wade is still a great player without Bron don't let anyone get that twisted.

KnickaBocka.44
03-28-2013, 01:58 PM
What are the 2004 Lakers then?

Gary Payton
Kobe Bryant
D. George
Karl Malone
Shaq.

40 year old Malone and 35 year old Payton cant really be compared. But honestly, this years Laker team is supposed to be one of the most stacked ever but their "stackedness" has only been outdone by their disappointment.

mngopher35
03-28-2013, 01:58 PM
w/o LeBron, Philly can beat them, the Knicks trounce them, Chicago owns them, Indy beats them, Nets would beat them, Orlando would be on par w/ them, Washington beats them, Cleveland beats them, Boston trounces them, Toronto competes w/ them, Atlanta beats them. I gave you 11 teams in the east, they'd see 3-4 times a year. 44 gms. lets say they go .500 just hypothetically. 22-22, you think that team breaks .500 vs the West? That's an 8th seed w/o LeBron, it's almost like the Lakers are now.

If healthy bulls and philly might, but neither team was healthy all year. I disagree with cleveland, washington, and orlando beating them. Boston and atlanta are maybes. A lineup of chalmers, wade, battier, bosh, haslem is better than the hawks for sure imo and they are a 6 seed. I just don't see the heat being an 8 seed at all.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 01:59 PM
What are the 2004 Lakers then?

Gary Payton
Kobe Bryant
D. George
Karl Malone
Shaq.

D George:facepalm:
35 year old scrub Payton? :facepalm:
39 year old last year of playing Malone? :facepalm:

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:01 PM
Do you know what role Wade had in the Heat's offense when the won the title in 06? Do you know what position Wade played for his entire rookie season?

I REFUSE to believe you've been an NBA fan since 07 because to me it seems as if you've only started watching basketball since the Heat's streak has started.

That was a way different Wade. Wade still has no jumper, his turnovers are down b/c he doesn't hold the ball as often.

Refuse whatever you want. You know that team is nowhere near a 4th seed in a healthy East. They are struggling most the time w/ LeBron, subtract him w/ that cast, oh they'd be in for a rude rude rude awakening.

pacofunk64
03-28-2013, 02:01 PM
Depends...who does LBJ play for? If it's the Bulls then no...in fact pretty much any other team with LBJ would be the best.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:02 PM
I know your motives differ from mine in this respect, but hey man, I finaly agree with you! I'd say they would be a top 4 seed easy in the East.

Absolutely man, Calling the Heat an 8th seed in the East is a slap in the face to everyone on the Heat but Lebron.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:03 PM
If healthy bulls and philly might, but neither team was healthy all year. I disagree with cleveland, washington, and orlando beating them. Boston and atlanta are maybes. A lineup of chalmers, wade, battier, bosh, haslem is better than the hawks for sure imo and they are a 6 seed. I just don't see the heat being an 8 seed at all.

did you see what Kyrie and that Cavs team could do? you think Miami is better than the Hawks w/o LeBron? where's the ATL fans for this. 7 or 8 seed. 6 at best, they jumping those top 6 teams.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:03 PM
Thats not any way to look at it. You're just making a guess.

How much of Lebron's 27 points and 7 assists do you think the rest of the Heat team could make up for?

Because the Heat's point differential is about +8 for the season so if we figure out how much production they lose we can go through the schedule and figure out which games they would lose.

Its the major reason why the Heat have what is right now the best offense in the NBA. They'd go from #1 to barely cracking the top 10 without Bron tbh.

With Bron they also went on a 27 game winning streak which got them to the point of finishing around or about 65 Ws on the season. At one point during that streak he played what most considered the best basketball of his life. Realistically without him they'd probably go 17 and 10 (rough guesstimate) over such a span.

No they are not #1 so easily without him. They also aren't #8.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:03 PM
40 year old Malone and 35 year old Payton cant really be compared. But honestly, this years Laker team is supposed to be one of the most stacked ever but their "stackedness" has only been outdone by their disappointment.

Nash is 40 too man, Dwight is still hurt, Gasol is a full on ***** now, injuries have destroyed us, and our bench sucks big dick.

ManRam
03-28-2013, 02:04 PM
they'd be better than an 8th seed, that's just silly. but best team in the east is just as silly.

chalmers
wade
battier
haslem
bosh

is a starting 5 with 3 positions below league-average. but, bosh and wade do make up for it.

an already average (i'd argue slightly below-average) bench becomes even worse.


it's not a great team; certainly not better than indy or the knicks. i do think brooklyn would have more talent 1-12 as well. and like i said, ultimately, i think they're right where the bulls are now. that's a top 4-5 team in the east, with only a few games seperating them from the 2 and 7 seeds

nycericanguy
03-28-2013, 02:05 PM
Thats not any way to look at it. You're just making a guess.

How much of Lebron's 27 points and 7 assists do you think the rest of the Heat team could make up for?

Because the Heat's point differential is about +8 for the season so if we figure out how much production they lose we can go through the schedule and figure out which games they would lose.

Of couse its a guess... this whole thread is hypothetical.

My point was MIA wouldn't have to replace ALL of LBJ's production to stay #1. No one's saying they wouldn't skip a beat, but they'd still be as talented as anyone in the East and capable of winning 50 games.

Wade, Allen & Bosh could each score 2-3ppg more, offense wouldn't be the biggest loss, it would be defense and versatility that James provides.

RCarlson85
03-28-2013, 02:06 PM
that was a different East. That was Pat Riley, Shaq was also there and Mourning.

Wow, it's clear that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The two years before Lebron arrived, the Heat had 43 and 47 wins. There was no Shaq, there was no Mourning, there was no Riley. That was Wade all by himself with Spo as coach. He led them by himself to a 5th seed in the East that had the Celtics with a younger big 3 and Lebron's Cavs. The next best player on those teams was probably Michael Beasley or Jermaine O'Neal.

If the Head didn't have Lebron they would have a lot more money to spend on other positions also. But even saying they have the exact same team just take away Lebron they would still be near the top of the East.

I don't post on here that much, but this was just too much for me to resist.

Stunner
03-28-2013, 02:06 PM
So no Lebron and a healthy East ? No they won't I think Chicago , Indiana and the Knicks would be the top three and the Heat would be 4th followed by Boston , Bk , ATL and hell I think a full year of wall and Beal the Wiz would sneak in the 8th spot . Their record with Wall is what 21-17 ? That's on pace for 40 wins

justinnum1
03-28-2013, 02:07 PM
if they didnt have bron, they would have someone else making near max money. thats like saying take kd off the thunder and dont replace him with anyone, they are a lotter team without kd.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:08 PM
they'd be better than an 8th seed, that's just silly. but best team in the east is just as silly.

chalmers
wade
battier
haslem
bosh

is a starting 5 with 3 positions below league-average. but, bosh and wade do make up for it.

an already average (i'd argue slightly below-average) bench becomes even worse.


it's not a great team; certainly not better than indy or the knicks. i do think brooklyn would have more talent 1-12 as well. and like i said, ultimately, i think they're right where the bulls are now. that's a top 4-5 team in the east, with only a few games seperating them from the 2 and 7 seeds

Rose back on the Bulls, Rondo on the Celtics, Louis Williams back on the Hawks, Cavs and Kyrie, Washington w/ John Wall, I'm asking again. List the 1-6 seeds. I want to see this.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:09 PM
That was a way different Wade. Wade still has no jumper, his turnovers are down b/c he doesn't hold the ball as often.

Refuse whatever you want. You know that team is nowhere near a 4th seed in a healthy East. They are struggling most the time w/ LeBron, subtract him w/ that cast, oh they'd be in for a rude rude rude awakening.

It was a different Wade so WHAT? This is a different Bosh. He has never played this level of defense in his life nor has he ever been THIS good on the mid range game. With more touches and opps he can give you 25 ppg on greater than 50% shooting from the floor.

You said Wade is inefficiency he boasts a TS% of 57.2 and an eFG% of 52.8 (career high). Its funny that you'd say Wade has no jump shot because his 39.7% on jumpers for the season is the exact same as Kobe. Its in the upper 3rd in the league in terms of % among Guards and better than Melo, Pierce, Gallo, Monta (you know the #1 option on the 8th seed in the East who couldn't chew on Wade jockstrap), Ryan Anderson, Klay etc etc etc

Only someone who is clueless about NBA ball would say Wade has no jump shot.

Stunner
03-28-2013, 02:10 PM
if they didnt have bron, they would have someone else making near max money. thats like saying take kd off the thunder and dont replace him with anyone, they are a lotter team without kd.

No we're just taking Lebron off the Heat and putting him in the west

KnickaBocka.44
03-28-2013, 02:10 PM
if they didnt have bron, they would have someone else making near max money. thats like saying take kd off the thunder and dont replace him with anyone, they are a lotter team without kd.

Even without Lebron they would be over the cap so that wouldn't be possible.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:11 PM
if they didnt have bron, they would have someone else making near max money. thats like saying take kd off the thunder and dont replace him with anyone, they are a lotter team without kd.

Well that's the question smartass you're not replacing Bron with anyone. Just for the sake of the argument lets say LeBron tore his ACL and missed the entire season.

OKC without Durant is still a playoff team out West.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:12 PM
Wow, it's clear that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The two years before Lebron arrived, the Heat had 43 and 47 wins. There was no Shaq, there was no Mourning, there was no Riley. That was Wade all by himself with Spo as coach. He led them by himself to a 5th seed in the East that had the Celtics with a younger big 3 and Lebron's Cavs. The next best player on those teams was probably Michael Beasley or Jermaine O'Neal.

If the Head didn't have Lebron they would have a lot more money to spend on other positions also. But even saying they have the exact same team just take away Lebron they would still be near the top of the East.

I don't post on here that much, but this was just too much for me to resist.

Was Deron Williams healthy? no. Were the Bulls w/ this version of Rose? no, Milwaukee was a pushover, ATL is better, Indy is better, Celtics are even better. Washington is better and more competitive, and the Knicks would be better. So no they aren't a 1-4 seed. not even 5 or 6. 7 or 8 is where they'd likely be.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:13 PM
Everyone healthy in the East? The 76ers would be the #1 seed and won 40 straight. Just saying. #TheBynumEffect :cool:

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:15 PM
It was a different Wade so WHAT? This is a different Bosh. He has never played this level of defense in his life nor has he ever been THIS good on the mid range game. With more touches and opps he can give you 25 ppg on greater than 50% shooting from the floor.

You said Wade is inefficiency he boasts a TS% of 57.2 and an eFG% of 52.8 (career high). Its funny that you'd say Wade has no jump shot because his 39.7% on jumpers for the season is the exact same as Kobe. Its in the upper 3rd in the league in terms of % among Guards and better than Melo, Pierce, Gallo, Monta (you know the #1 option on the 8th seed in the East who couldn't chew on Wade jockstrap), Ryan Anderson, Klay etc etc etc

Only someone who is clueless about NBA ball would say Wade has no jump shot.

Bosh's defense again, discrediting what LeBron does to that team. It's basically him anchoring it and making Bosh look good. The Raptors had Bosh, good scorer and rebounder, not taking that away from him but a gimpy Wade and Bosh being 7th or 8th in this east isn't a stretch.

Take LeBron out those drives are gone, the numbers lowers.

he doesn't.

BklynKnicks3
03-28-2013, 02:16 PM
did u guys forget that wADE WON 44 WITH NO BOSH YEAR BEFORE LEBRON GO THERE

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:16 PM
Was Deron Williams healthy? no. Were the Bulls w/ this version of Rose? no, Milwaukee was a pushover, ATL is better, Indy is better, Celtics are even better. Washington is better and more competitive, and the Knicks would be better. So no they aren't a 1-4 seed. not even 5 or 6. 7 or 8 is where they'd likely be.

And the Heat would still have the best played in Dwyane Wade and the best PF in Chris Bosh.

A healthy Wade gets you 26, 4 and 7 comfortably without LeBron. Last time he did that the Heat finished with the 5th best record in a MUCH better Eastern Conference and his 2nd best player being Michael Beasley/Jermaine O'Neal.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:16 PM
Everyone healthy in the East? The 76ers would be the #1 seed and won 40 straight. Just saying. #TheBynumEffect :cool:

you serious? 3 or 4 not #1.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:17 PM
if they didnt have bron, they would have someone else making near max money. thats like saying take kd off the thunder and dont replace him with anyone, they are a lotter team without kd.

This has to be taken into consideration as well, if Lebron was off the team, you have to at least replace him with an average sf to even the roster out.

blahblahyoutoo
03-28-2013, 02:17 PM
who are you 3-4'ing over. List the top 6.

are drose and bynum healthy?

1. bulls
2. pacers
3/4. heat/knicks
5/6. nets/philly

justinnum1
03-28-2013, 02:17 PM
Well that's the question smartass you're not replacing Bron with anyone. Just for the sake of the argument lets say LeBron tore his ACL and missed the entire season.

OKC without Durant is still a playoff team out West.
LOL. no they are not.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:17 PM
Well that's the question smartass you're not replacing Bron with anyone. Just for the sake of the argument lets say LeBron tore his ACL and missed the entire season.

OKC without Durant is still a playoff team out West.

I got it now, I wish the op would have made that clear.

29$JerZ
03-28-2013, 02:18 PM
Even without Lebron they would be over the cap so that wouldn't be possible.

He's referring to if LeBron stayed in Cleveland Miami would have simply maxed out Wade/Bosh and either Joe Johnson/Amar'e Stoudemire or use that Max money in 2010 to build proper support for Wade/Bosh.

29$JerZ
03-28-2013, 02:18 PM
Everyone healthy in the East? The 76ers would be the #1 seed and won 40 straight. Just saying. #TheBynumEffect :cool:

Knicks aren't spelled with a 76 :)

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:19 PM
you serious? 3 or 4 not #1.

He's joking dude.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:19 PM
did u guys forget that wADE WON 44 WITH NO BOSH YEAR BEFORE LEBRON GO THERE

8th seed and got knocked out 4-1 vs the Celtics. You forget the East was weaker those years too.

KnickaBocka.44
03-28-2013, 02:20 PM
Of couse its a guess... this whole thread is hypothetical.

My point was MIA wouldn't have to replace ALL of LBJ's production to stay #1. No one's saying they wouldn't skip a beat, but they'd still be as talented as anyone in the East and capable of winning 50 games.

Wade, Allen & Bosh could each score 2-3ppg more, offense wouldn't be the biggest loss, it would be defense and versatility that James provides.

My point is that there are better ways to approximate the number of wins they would have.

Well obviously Lebron provides more than points and assists but that is the closest way to approximate the numbers. I looked at their schedule and there are between 22-25 games they won by less than 8 which means that if they lose only half of those they are already at the level of the others in the East.

Green_Monster
03-28-2013, 02:20 PM
LOL. no they are not.

They most definitely are a playoff team.

Westbrook
Thabo
Martin
Ibaka
Perkins

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:21 PM
are drose and bynum healthy?

1. bulls
2. pacers
3/4. heat/knicks
5/6. nets/philly

they better than the Nets. And that's my team's rival. That Heat team w/ no LeBron is better than the Brooklyn Nets and my Knicks?

KnickaBocka.44
03-28-2013, 02:21 PM
He's referring to if LeBron stayed in Cleveland Miami would have simply maxed out Wade/Bosh and either Joe Johnson/Amar'e Stoudemire or use that Max money in 2010 to build proper support for Wade/Bosh.

Good luck getting Amare or JJ to take less than a max deal lol. And either way, its not like they would be getting great production out of either of those guys now.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:22 PM
Bosh's defense again, discrediting what LeBron does to that team. It's basically him anchoring it and making Bosh look good. The Raptors had Bosh, good scorer and rebounder, not taking that away from him but a gimpy Wade and Bosh being 7th or 8th in this east isn't a stretch.

Take LeBron out those drives are gone, the numbers lowers.

he doesn't.

Funny that you didn't address your falsehoods about Wade's offense haha. Wade can't shoot? :laugh2:

Chris Bosh's (2.3) DRAPM (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2012.html) last season was greater than that of LeBron's (2.2) when the Heat had arguably the best defense in all of basketball.

So its you who may not be understanding Bosh's value on D for that team. Defense is played from the inside go out, Bosh impact inside is what makes LeBron a better defensive player on the perimeter and vice versa. They have GREAT team D.

If you don't know what RAPM is you should learn what it is because its rumoured that the league has now taken control of the 2013 #s for their own personal use.

LeBron is GREAT defensively but without him the Heat would still be able to hold their own on that end of the floor make no mistake about that.

Stunner
03-28-2013, 02:23 PM
Forgot about Bynum lol

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:23 PM
Knicks aren't spelled with a 76 :)

Touche good sir :laugh2:

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:24 PM
Forgot about Bynum lol

:mad:

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:24 PM
Funny that you didn't address your falsehoods about Wade's offense haha. Wade can't shoot? :laugh2:

Chris Bosh's (2.3) DRAPM (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2012.html) last season was greater than that of LeBron's (2.2) when the Heat had arguably the best defense in all of basketball.

So its you who may not be understanding Bosh's value on D for that team. Defense is played from the inside go out, Bosh impact inside is what makes LeBron a better defensive player on the perimeter and vice versa. They have GREAT team D.

If you don't know what RAPM is you should learn what it is because its rumoured that the league has now taken control of the 2013 #s for their own personal use.

LeBron is GREAT defensively but without him the Heat would still be able to hold their own on that end of the floor make no mistake about that.

it'd be a whole different offense w/ Wade. LeBron changes so many players that's what you're not taking to account. Is Wade not the best SG in the east? ofcourse he is. Would he be as efficient and not injury prone, ofcourse not.

PrettyBoyJ
03-28-2013, 02:25 PM
No.. top 4 team but not the best in the east

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:26 PM
8th seed and got knocked out 4-1 vs the Celtics. You forget the East was weaker those years too.

The east is the weakest it's ever been kid.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:27 PM
Good luck getting Amare or JJ to take less than a max deal lol. And either way, its not like they would be getting great production out of either of those guys now.

When you take the state taxes into consideration they are making essentially the same amount of money.

29$JerZ
03-28-2013, 02:29 PM
If you took anyone's best player the team would be much worse.
Teams are built around their best player, not by building a stack team at every position.

Miami is elite because of LeBron, without him they'd only be very good which is still good for Top 3 in the East.
Cleveland/Toronto are no longer playoff threats because their 2 best players are in Miami. The East is extremely weak right now. After Miami, Indy, New York, and maybe a last good run by an old Boston team who else is a possible contender? The East is so much weaker after the top 4 teams compared to the West where as of now the 9th/10th ranked teams (Dallas/Utah) would be the 7th.8th seed in the East. Miami would still easily be a top 3 team.

Tony_Starks
03-28-2013, 02:29 PM
did u guys forget that wADE WON 44
WITH NO BOSH YEAR BEFORE LEBRON GO THERE

Yes they did. Apparently somehow the Heat would now be worse with Bosh, Allen, and Birdman and a bench against teams like the old Celtics than they were with Beasely Jermaine Oneal and MacGloire and no bench against the prime Celtics and Pistons....

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:29 PM
The east is the weakest it's ever been kid.

Sixers in 2009 or Sixers now?
Nets in 09' or Nets now?
Bulls in 09' or Bulls now?
Wizards in 09' or Wizards now?
Pacers in 09' or Pacers now?
Knicks in 09' "
Hawks in 09' "

com'on kid.

KnickaBocka.44
03-28-2013, 02:30 PM
When you take the state taxes into consideration they are making essentially the same amount of money.

True. However the amount of production they would get from either of those players this year still doesnt come anywhere close to what they get from Bron and would almost certainly make them a mid-tier playoff team.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:31 PM
it'd be a whole different offense w/ Wade. LeBron changes so many players that's what you're not taking to account. Is Wade not the best SG in the east? ofcourse he is. Would he be as efficient and not injury prone, ofcourse not.

Now you're changing your tune again. Dude reply to the post.

You think it isn't a two way street. LeBron is as efficient as he is because of the impact of those around him. Wade's scoring efficiency would drop but sure as hell wouldn't plummet. Without Bron on board he was a more efficiency scorer than he's been with Bron. What's to say he can't maintain a high standard of efficient scoring. With LeBron on board his rebounding and assists #s have taken a hit as well as his scoring. Don't you think his increase in those #s would in some ways compensate for his microscopic dip in efficiency?

BklynKnicks3
03-28-2013, 02:31 PM
Thats no bosh with bosh they win 55 east is weak now to

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:32 PM
The east is the weakest it's ever been kid.

You shouldn't be calling anyone kid since you don't know jack **** about the history of the East.

RCarlson85
03-28-2013, 02:32 PM
8th seed and got knocked out 4-1 vs the Celtics. You forget the East was weaker those years too.

Eigth seed? Try 5th seed. How was the East so much weaker than it is now? In the few seasons before the the Heat got Lebron, the Celtics won their championship and were playing at a higher level than they are now, the Cavs were a dominant team with Lebron, the Magic had good teams led by Dwight, and the Hawks were as solid as they are now or more because they still had Smith, Joe Johnson, and Horford.

Like I said before, it's clear you don't know what you're saying. I think 99% of the people posting on this topic would agree with me after reading your ridiculous posts so far.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:33 PM
Thats no bosh with bosh they win 55 east is weak now to

The NBA forum was a much better place without your posts you know. I thought you said you were going to change your ways? Guess time heeled your heartbreak but not your brain.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:35 PM
Now you're changing your tune again. Dude reply to the post.

You think it isn't a two way street. LeBron is as efficient as he is because of the impact of those around him. Wade's scoring efficiency would drop but sure as hell wouldn't plummet. Without Bron on board he was a more efficiency scorer than he's been with Bron. What's to say he can't maintain a high standard of efficient scoring. With LeBron on board his rebounding and assists #s have taken a hit as well as his scoring. Don't you think his increase in those #s would in some ways compensate for his microscopic dip in efficiency?

no b/c Wade isn't that type of player. You can't run him like that. He isn't durable enough, look at this season w/ LeBron, Wade still gets hurt, when he's hurt that will effect that type of team's win/loss. So no, he's not going to get any better.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:36 PM
Eigth seed? Try 5th seed. How was the East so much weaker than it is now? In the few seasons before the the Heat got Lebron, the Celtics won their championship and were playing at a higher level than they are now, the Cavs were a dominant team with Lebron, the Magic had good teams led by Dwight, and the Hawks were as solid as they are now or more because they still had Smith, Joe Johnson, and Horford.

Like I said before, it's clear you don't know what you're saying. I think 99% of the people posting on this topic would agree with me after reading your ridiculous posts so far.

I posted atleast 6-7 teams that are better than they were in 09' and still someone will say the east is weaker now?

shep33
03-28-2013, 02:37 PM
Nope.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 02:40 PM
no b/c Wade isn't that type of player. You can't run him like that. He isn't durable enough, look at this season w/ LeBron, Wade still gets hurt, when he's hurt that will effect that type of team's win/loss. So no, he's not going to get any better.

Okay so all the other teams are healthy but the Heat aren't okay cool. I got ya. We can run Bynum for 82 games but Wade's gonna miss half the year.

First you said Wade isn't that good and he's not efficient, then you said he has no jumper, now you're saying he can't stay healthy but the rest of the East would be able to. Make up your mind bro.

Answer me this question. If Bosh and Wade are able to play in 75 games together how many of those game do you see the Heat winning?

KnickaBocka.44
03-28-2013, 02:42 PM
I posted atleast 6-7 teams that are better than they were in 09' and still someone will say the east is weaker now?

One could make the argument that Orlando, Philly, Detroit, Cleveland, and Boston are all worse too though.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:46 PM
Sixers in 2009 or Sixers now?
Nets in 09' or Nets now?
Bulls in 09' or Bulls now?
Wizards in 09' or Wizards now?
Pacers in 09' or Pacers now?
Knicks in 09' "
Hawks in 09' "

com'on kid.

The east is weaker today, sorry.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:47 PM
no b/c Wade isn't that type of player. You can't run him like that. He isn't durable enough, look at this season w/ LeBron, Wade still gets hurt, when he's hurt that will effect that type of team's win/loss. So no, he's not going to get any better.

Wade, bosh and the best roles players in the league would hold their own in the East.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:48 PM
The east is weaker today, sorry.

yet all those team are better. Ok. Kid.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:48 PM
You shouldn't be calling anyone kid since you don't know jack **** about the history of the East.

Orly?

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:49 PM
One could make the argument that Orlando, Philly, Detroit, Cleveland, and Boston are all worse too though.

Yes they are. Philly is better than it was in 09'.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:50 PM
yet all those team are better. Ok. Kid.

Than the current east teams yes. Not to mention that all the good East teams have trouble with the health of their star players, which makes it even easier for the Heat.

Tony_Starks
03-28-2013, 02:58 PM
You know what's funny is that when Lebron was in Cleveland it was "his team is horrible, it's all Lebron." Ok now he goes to a team that was already a playoff team, already had a superstar, and added him AND another allstar plus great role players. Yet somehow it's still "the team is horrible, it's all Lebron, they'd be nothing without him?"

Ok we get it, Lebron can singlehandedly make ANY team a contender. Put him on the Bobcats instead of Kemba Walker and they win 60+ games and are in the finals...

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 02:58 PM
Than the current east teams yes. Not to mention that all the good East teams have trouble with the health of their star players, which makes it even easier for the Heat.

And that's what we're talking about a healthy east vs that team w/ no LeBron. It's a simple no, they wouldn't crack the top 6.

Alayla
03-28-2013, 03:02 PM
Id say if not the best then the 2nd best people dont give Wade or Bosh there respect anymore plus with Allen and lewis they have some degree of depth so yea id say there up there.

Alayla
03-28-2013, 03:02 PM
And that's what we're talking about a healthy east vs that team w/ no LeBron. It's a simple no, they wouldn't crack the top 6.

......wow.. now thats taking it way to far

Alayla
03-28-2013, 03:03 PM
You know what's funny is that when Lebron was in Cleveland it was "his team is horrible, it's all Lebron." Ok now he goes to a team that was already a playoff team, already had a superstar, and added him AND another allstar plus great role players. Yet somehow it's still "the team is horrible, it's all Lebron, they'd be nothing without him?"

Ok we get it, Lebron can singlehandedly make ANY team a contender. Put him on the Bobcats instead of Kemba Walker and they win 60+ games and are in the finals...

This

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 03:04 PM
......wow.. now thats taking it way to far

no that's giving teams like the Hawks, Bucks and Nets their respect. The Wizards would also have John Wall for a full year and even they'd be a playoff contender.

ManRam
03-28-2013, 03:06 PM
Rose back on the Bulls, Rondo on the Celtics, Louis Williams back on the Hawks, Cavs and Kyrie, Washington w/ John Wall, I'm asking again. List the 1-6 seeds. I want to see this.

everyone healthy and lebron not on the heat:

1. chicago
2. indy (healthy granger...with his scoring they'd be much better)
3. new york
4. a tossup
5. a tossup
6. a tossup


the heat would be right with the hawks, the C's with Rondo and the Nets. picking between them is pointless.

the wizards are interesting, but i can't say for certain that with a healthy wall they are a top 6-7 team. cleveland even with kyrie isn't in the heat's realm.

sports4life1989
03-28-2013, 03:06 PM
No. Depending on what team Lebron is playing for them, and if the Bulls are healthy they would be ahead of the Heat as well.

2-ONE-5
03-28-2013, 03:06 PM
Better than NY w/o melo

better then NY with Melo

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 03:07 PM
no that's giving teams like the Hawks, Bucks and Nets their respect. The Wizards would also have John Wall for a full year and even they'd be a playoff contender.

:laugh2:

This guy is a comedian.

king4day
03-28-2013, 03:09 PM
The team, as is, without Lebron, I'd say top 3 for sure. I thought in '10, without Lebron, that Wade and Bosh would be scary good.
If they could use that money to add another elite player, or a more well rounded bench, then a more emphatic 'yes' to the question.

ManRam
03-28-2013, 03:10 PM
You know what's funny is that when Lebron was in Cleveland it was "his team is horrible, it's all Lebron." Ok now he goes to a team that was already a playoff team, already had a superstar, and added him AND another allstar plus great role players. Yet somehow it's still "the team is horrible, it's all Lebron, they'd be nothing without him?"

Ok we get it, Lebron can singlehandedly make ANY team a contender. Put him on the Bobcats instead of Kemba Walker and they win 60+ games and are in the finals...

the difference between the cavs and heat with lebron is that when the cavs lost lebron they were the WORST team in the NBA. the heat certainly wouldn't be THAT bad, but they'd drop off a ton. he's their best player at literally every aspect of the game besides 3PT shooting and even that's close. the heat have more top end talent than the cavs, but lebron still is relied on incredibly much

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 03:14 PM
everyone healthy and lebron not on the heat:

1. chicago
2. indy (healthy granger...with his scoring they'd be much better)
3. new york
4. a tossup
5. a tossup
6. a tossup


the heat would be right with the hawks, the C's with Rondo and the Nets. picking between them is pointless.

the wizards are interesting, but i can't say for certain that with a healthy wall they are a top 6-7 team. cleveland even with kyrie isn't in the heat's realm.

Lets go w/ the obvious

Bulls w/ Rose win 50+
Knicks w/ no LeBron in division *league happy @Swashcuff?* 50+
Nets w/ healthy Deron win 50
Indy is a 50+ win team
Rondo on BOS 45+

John Wall full yr. WAS 40+
MIL is a 40 win team
ATL 40+ easily

Miami no LeBron, I'll give them 40-45 wins, me being nice. So they are fighting w/ MIL and ATL and maybe BOS. This list doesn't include TOR which would improve and CLE.

KnickaBocka.44
03-28-2013, 03:14 PM
better then NY with Melo

:facepalm:

KnickaBocka.44
03-28-2013, 03:17 PM
Yes they are. Philly is better than it was in 09'.

If you're referring to the 09-10 season yes, but not by much at all.

JoeBlessU
03-28-2013, 03:18 PM
Is this is real question?.. If so the answer is absolutely not. I thought all heat fans think hes the MVP every season? So you can take the MVP off your team and still be in 1st? that makes ZERO sense. Either your team wouldnt be in 1st w/o him or hes not the MVP, cant be both sorry.

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 03:18 PM
Lets go w/ the obvious

Bulls w/ Rose win 50+
Knicks w/ no LeBron in division 50+
Nets w/ healthy Deron win 50
Indy is a 50+ win team
Rondo on BOS 45+

John Wall full yr. WAS 40+
MIL is a 40 win team
ATL 40+ easily

Miami no LeBron, I'll give them 40-45 wins, me being nice. So they are fighting w/ MIL and ATL and maybe BOS. This list doesn't include TOR which would improve and CLE.

You're a supposed Knicks fan and you don't know that LeBron has never been in their division? :confused:

I love how you say all those teams are so much better and the heat are so much worse and then call it the obvious. :laugh:

You're obviously fooling yourself and no one else.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 03:21 PM
You're a supposed Knicks fan and you don't know that LeBron has never been in their division? :confused:


I meant league give me a break. Sheesh ppl do make mistakes typing in a rush.

TheSportMessiah
03-28-2013, 03:23 PM
In this scenario LeBron would be on the Cavs or Bulls likely...so you would really have to factor that in as well.

--23--
03-28-2013, 03:23 PM
As it stands now yes they can, If health wasn't an issue i still see them as a top 3 team in the East.

KnickaBocka.44
03-28-2013, 03:24 PM
In this scenario LeBron would be on the Cavs or Bulls likely...so you would really have to factor that in as well.

No, we've already been over this. He isn't on a team in the east at all.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 03:27 PM
the difference between the cavs and heat with lebron is that when the cavs lost lebron they were the WORST team in the NBA. the heat certainly wouldn't be THAT bad, but they'd drop off a ton. he's their best player at literally every aspect of the game besides 3PT shooting and even that's close. the heat have more top end talent than the cavs, but lebron still is relied on incredibly much

You're not taking what happened with the cavs into consideration, Do you not remember how many problems they had after Lebron left?

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 03:30 PM
And that's what we're talking about a healthy east vs that team w/ no LeBron. It's a simple no, they wouldn't crack the top 6.

How stupid is that? A healthy east vs a lebronless Heat. Way to stack the odds in ones favor...

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 03:31 PM
no that's giving teams like the Hawks, Bucks and Nets their respect. The Wizards would also have John Wall for a full year and even they'd be a playoff contender.

:facepalm: You sir are a failure.

3RDASYSTEM
03-28-2013, 03:32 PM
Lets see, WADE has a oldSHAQ and goes to back to back ECF,1 FINALS app., 1 ring

postSHAQ he couldn't stay on hardwood or get out of 1st rd

next BOSH joins him who couldn't get his team out of 1st rd for 7yrs but he did post a respectable 24 and 11 prior to joining WADE and was no1 option/franchise for TOR

Next add a guy who basaically single handed(like AI in 01') took a sub par cast to FINALS in 07', won 2 league MVP's and joined those 2 I mentioned and is 2 for 2 since and looking like a 3 for 3 in FINALS app. since forming trio

i'd say BRON's impact is 2nd to none, well it rivals a SHAQ/WILT/AI/ALCINDOR type impact, day1

just look at how he got to FINALS with BIG Z by yr4 and now he got there in yr1 with a WADE/BOSH/RILEY, now that's serious impact on the hardwood displayed

if SHAQ didn't get hurt and mess up the flow they had, BRON would have taken a older version of SHAQ to FINALS than WADE had done, BIB BABY did'em in

b@llhog24
03-28-2013, 03:33 PM
If Wade is healthy (even though this doesn't happen) then they'd have the best record in the east. This is with the assumption that you replace Bron with a capable SF starter. Only thing is, they would be sort of like the 09 and 010 Cavs, great reg season team but not a true contender.

heyman321
03-28-2013, 03:40 PM
They would be the 3 or 4th seed. 1st seed are you kidding me?? Chris Bosh is a third wheel couldn't evne get his own team into the playoffs. If Wade is healthy, that team is still good though.

Lo Porto
03-28-2013, 03:41 PM
This is such a dumb question. No the Heat would not be the #1 seed. Think about it - before LBJ and Bosh came, Miami wasn't even a playoff team when Wade was younger, better and healthier. Then look at Bosh - Toronto was barely a playoff team with him as a younger, healthier more explosive big man.

LeBron brings all those guys together. Without him, do you really think a starting unit of Chalmers, Wade, Battier, Bosh and Birdman/Anthony really scares people? They might, might be a home playoff team in the East this year. Maybe.

Tony_Starks
03-28-2013, 03:42 PM
Some of these hypotheticals don't even make since. You can't say take Lebron away AND the east is healthy. Those are two completely different stories.

If we're going there how about if the entire east was healthy the Heat this year with Lebron probably wouldn't have dominated the way they did...

JasonJohnHorn
03-28-2013, 03:44 PM
No way. They depend on him so much to carry the team sometimes. I mean, last night, everybody on that floor gave up half way through the 4th quarter, LBJ was smashing to the rim, blocking shots. And he makes up for what they lack in so many ways. They don't have a traditional PG; LBJ handles the ball. They don't have a center that can rebound, LBJ rebounds the ball. While Wade could take ball handling duties, they wouldn't have depth when it came to ball handlers without James, and Bosh has been a weak rebounding PF that last couple of seasons. 7 or 8 boards isn't going to cut it when you don't have a good rebounding center.

There are a few holes in this Heat roster as is, LBJ makes up for a lot of them, you take him away and their short comings are going to be exposed and they would struggle to get to .500 not to mention the coaching.

b@llhog24
03-28-2013, 03:45 PM
This is such a dumb question. No the Heat would not be the #1 seed. Think about it - before LBJ and Bosh came, Miami wasn't even a playoff team when Wade was younger, better and healthier. Then look at Bosh - Toronto was barely a playoff team with him as a younger, healthier more explosive big man.

LeBron brings all those guys together. Without him, do you really think a starting unit of Chalmers, Wade, Battier, Bosh and Birdman/Anthony really scares people? They might, might be a home playoff team in the East this year. Maybe.

In this case, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 03:46 PM
Lets see, WADE has a oldSHAQ and goes to back to back ECF,1 FINALS app., 1 ring

postSHAQ he couldn't stay on hardwood or get out of 1st rd

next BOSH joins him who couldn't get his team out of 1st rd for 7yrs but he did post a respectable 24 and 11 prior to joining WADE and was no1 option/franchise for TOR

Next add a guy who basaically single handed(like AI in 01') took a sub par cast to FINALS in 07', won 2 league MVP's and joined those 2 I mentioned and is 2 for 2 since and looking like a 3 for 3 in FINALS app. since forming trio

i'd say BRON's impact is 2nd to none, well it rivals a SHAQ/WILT/AI/ALCINDOR type impact, day1

just look at how he got to FINALS with BIG Z by yr4 and now he got there in yr1 with a WADE/BOSH/RILEY, now that's serious impact on the hardwood displayed

if SHAQ didn't get hurt and mess up the flow they had, BRON would have taken a older version of SHAQ to FINALS than WADE had done, BIB BABY did'em in

Can we get the English version of this?

Swashcuff
03-28-2013, 03:48 PM
This is such a dumb question. No the Heat would not be the #1 seed. Think about it - before LBJ and Bosh came, Miami wasn't even a playoff team when Wade was younger, better and healthier. Then look at Bosh - Toronto was barely a playoff team with him as a younger, healthier more explosive big man.

LeBron brings all those guys together. Without him, do you really think a starting unit of Chalmers, Wade, Battier, Bosh and Birdman/Anthony really scares people? They might, might be a home playoff team in the East this year. Maybe.

Dude the Heat were the 5th seed in the East before Bron and Bosh came. Wade carried that team.

heyman321
03-28-2013, 03:50 PM
In this case, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Lebron is the whole. He could go on the Bobcats and they'd probably be a 3rd seed, and Byron Mullens would be averaging 5 threes a game.

JordansBulls
03-28-2013, 03:55 PM
he's their best scorer, passer, rebounder and defender. he plays a different role almost every night.

the east is down, but without lebron you're gonna have some crappy players logging a lot more minutes. i don't think there is a chance they're the best team without him. they don't have guys who can replace what he does.

tiny sample size, but the Heat are 2-5 without lebron since he went there

23-7 without Wade

Do you have the teams played? I do know that the Heat played without Lebron @ Chicago the first year there. And then in some meaningless season end games when everything was wrapped up both were out.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 03:57 PM
:facepalm: You sir are a failure.

you're confusing me w/ your Lakers' season. :D

justinnum1
03-28-2013, 04:03 PM
you're confusing me w/ your lakers' season. :d

lol

Utd7
03-28-2013, 04:06 PM
you're confusing me w/ your Lakers' season. :D
Who the **** is she :D

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 04:15 PM
Who the **** is she :D

That's Carol Seleme homie. One of the baddest latinas in the game. :cool:

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 04:41 PM
you're confusing me w/ your Lakers' season. :D

Lol, I'm sorry I forgot you guys are going to beat everybody up on your way to the ship :laugh:

bucketss
03-28-2013, 04:46 PM
so is this you admitting wade>>>>>>> melo? since wade is able to lead a team with arguably the same talent to a better record than the cancer carmelo.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 04:50 PM
Lol, I'm sorry I forgot you guys are going to beat everybody up on your way to the ship :laugh:

Is Taco Tuesdays the only thing left for your team?

justinnum1
03-28-2013, 04:52 PM
so is this you admitting wade>>>>>>> melo? since wade is able to lead a team with arguably the same talent to a better record than the cancer carmelo.
Well said

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 04:53 PM
That's Carol Seleme homie. One of the baddest latinas in the game. :cool:

You made it seem as if she was in porn. Not interested.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 04:54 PM
You made it seem as if she was in porn. Not interested.

:confused:

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 04:54 PM
Is Taco Tuesdays the only thing left for your team?

Nope, more playoffs and rings will soon follow(history says it all). What is left for your team, another sweep? When was the last time you guys won a ring? Lol

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 04:56 PM
:confused:

I was expecting to see her will a dick in her mouth. Disappointed!

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 04:57 PM
so is this you admitting wade>>>>>>> melo? since wade is able to lead a team with arguably the same talent to a better record than the cancer carmelo.

I'm not sure who you're referring too, but yeah Wade is better than Melo.

bucketss
03-28-2013, 05:00 PM
I'm not sure who you're referring too, but yeah Wade is better than Melo.

im referring to the melo homer who thinks melo should be mvp.

Hawkeye15
03-28-2013, 05:05 PM
No, there is no way. People look at that team as stacked, while ignoring after taking away their top 3 players, they are simply role players built to play around LeBron/Wade/Bosh with zero inside presence. A team of Wade playing the #1 role, 38 mpg, is a lot of missed games, and their role players are not good enough to sustain missed time.

They would finish with HCA possibly, but that isn't saying much out east. 47-52 wins or so. 2nd round knockout unless Wade went ham.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 05:08 PM
im referring to the melo homer who thinks melo should be mvp.

Melo and mvp in the same sentence:confused:

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 05:11 PM
No, there is no way. People look at that team as stacked, while ignoring after taking away their top 3 players, they are simply role players built to play around LeBron/Wade/Bosh with zero inside presence. A team of Wade playing the #1 role, 38 mpg, is a lot of missed games, and their role players are not good enough to sustain missed time.

They would finish with HCA possibly, but that isn't saying much out east. 47-52 wins or so. 2nd round knockout unless Wade went ham.

What team is more stacked than Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Haslem, Chalmers, Miller, Battier, Birdman, Allen?
You won't find one man. The Heat are Uber stacked!

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 05:11 PM
I was expecting to see her will a dick in her mouth. Disappointed!

I said baddest chick in the game. Not baddest chick in porn. Not that I'm not a huge fan of Jynx, Jada and the Monicas of that world.

Hawkeye15
03-28-2013, 05:13 PM
What team is more stacked than Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Haslem, Chalmers, Miller, Battier, Birdman, Allen?
You won't find one man. The Heat are Uber stacked!

Thunder
Spurs

its not about being top heavy, its about the roster that plays. And you add those players after the big 3 like they are anything more than role players.

29$JerZ
03-28-2013, 05:14 PM
What team is more stacked than Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Haslem, Chalmers, Miller, Battier, Birdman, Allen?
You won't find one man. The Heat are Uber stacked!

Spurs are more stacked than Miami.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 05:18 PM
Nope, more playoffs and rings will soon follow(history says it all). What is left for your team, another sweep? When was the last time you guys won a ring? Lol

I'm going to cheer so hard when those Texas teams knock you off this playoff race. :laugh2:

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 05:19 PM
I'm going to cheer so hard when those Texas teams knock you off this playoff race. :laugh2:

Sig bet?

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 05:19 PM
Thunder
Spurs

its not about being top heavy, its about the roster that plays. And you add those players after the big 3 like they are anything more than role players.


Spurs are more stacked than Miami.

Do you mind posting the rosters?

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 05:20 PM
Sig bet?

Nah just rant.

29$JerZ
03-28-2013, 05:24 PM
Do you mind posting the rosters?

Tiago Splitter - Dejuan Blair - Matt Bonner - Aron Baynes
Tim Duncan - Boris Diaw
Kawhi Leonard - Stephen Jackson
Danny Green - Manu Ginobli - Gary Neal - Corey Joseph
Tony Parker - Patty Mills - Nando De Colo


They have the record they do for a reason, plus almost beat a fully equipped Miami team without Duncan/Manu/Tony

Bravo95
03-28-2013, 05:27 PM
Heck ATL, MIL don't even have someone on Bosh's level.
Slow down with that. Horford is definitely on Bosh's "level."

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 05:30 PM
Slow down with that. Horford is definitely on Bosh's "level."

Horford is actually better.

Hawkeye15
03-28-2013, 05:34 PM
Do you mind posting the rosters?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2013.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2013.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013.html

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 05:41 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2013.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/OKC/2013.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2013.html

Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Haslem, miller, Chalmers, Allen, Birdman, Joel, Battier>>>>>>>>>>>Durant, Westy, Ibaka, Collison, Jackson, Martin, sefolosha>>>>Timmy, Gino, Parker, Green, Splitter, Leonard, Jackson. What is your point here? The Heat's roster ***** all over those two.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 05:42 PM
Tiago Splitter - Dejuan Blair - Matt Bonner - Aron Baynes
Tim Duncan - Boris Diaw
Kawhi Leonard - Stephen Jackson
Danny Green - Manu Ginobli - Gary Neal - Corey Joseph
Tony Parker - Patty Mills - Nando De Colo


They have the record they do for a reason, plus almost beat a fully equipped Miami team without Duncan/Manu/Tony

That roster has nothing on the Heat, Nothing!

Bravo95
03-28-2013, 05:46 PM
Horford is actually better.
I wasn't going to say it and sound like a homer, ha.

Hawkeye15
03-28-2013, 05:47 PM
Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Haslem, miller, Chalmers, Allen, Birdman, Joel, Battier>>>>>>>>>>>Durant, Westy, Ibaka, Collison, Jackson, Martin, sefolosha>>>>Timmy, Gino, Parker, Green, Splitter, Leonard, Jackson. What is your point here? The Heat's roster ***** all over those two.

Learn stats dude, seriously. Learn impact. I can see you have some potential as a poster, but you just don't know what you are talking about the majority of the time.

bucketss
03-28-2013, 05:49 PM
Tiago Splitter - Dejuan Blair - Matt Bonner - Aron Baynes
Tim Duncan - Boris Diaw
Kawhi Leonard - Stephen Jackson
Danny Green - Manu Ginobli - Gary Neal - Corey Joseph
Tony Parker - Patty Mills - Nando De Colo


They have the record they do for a reason, plus almost beat a fully equipped Miami team without Duncan/Manu/Tony

hes a laker fan he doesn't understand depth ;p

29$JerZ
03-28-2013, 05:59 PM
That roster has nothing on the Heat, Nothing!

http://www.nba.com/games/20121129/SASMIA/gameinfo.html

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 06:00 PM
Learn stats dude, seriously. Learn impact. I can see you have some potential as a poster, but you just don't know what you are talking about the majority of the time.

I think you've backed yourself into a corner and don't want to take back what you said.
I know you would like to believe that the Heats success rest solely on Lebrons shoulders, but that's just simply not the case my man. Take the top player out of each team you just listed.
What team do you take?

Wade, Bosh, Haslem, Battier, Chalmers, Miller, Birdman, Allen.

Timmy, Tiago, Green, Gino, Jackson, Blair, Mills, Diaw.

Westbrook, Ibaka, Collision, Jackson, Martin, Maynor, Perkins.

The choice is as clear as day.

29$JerZ
03-28-2013, 06:00 PM
Miami's role support isn't even deep.
Chalmers/Allen/Battier/Haslem with some contributions from Cole/Birdman/Lewis
I'm more impressed with how LeBron makes them actually look good.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 06:01 PM
http://www.nba.com/games/20121129/SASMIA/gameinfo.html

Lol, Is this one game supposed to mean something? Get out of here man.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 06:01 PM
Miami's role support isn't even deep.
Chalmers/Allen/Battier/Haslem with some contributions from Cole/Birdman/Lewis
I'm more impressed with how LeBron makes them actually look good.

Now they're all scrubs and Lebron makes them good :laugh2: oh man you guys are too much!

29$JerZ
03-28-2013, 06:03 PM
Lol, Is this one game supposed to mean something? Get out of here man.

It's literally a game of the Spurs role players against the complete Miami HEAT team, they only loss by 5.
If your basis for Miami support > SA is in your head we have nothing else to discuss.


Now they're all scrubs and Lebron makes them good :laugh2: oh man you guys are too much!

LeBron makes the entire team deadly. They maximize their worth with him in the unit. By itself its nothing impressive.

Trueblue2
03-28-2013, 06:07 PM
Wade alone had MIA at around 42 wins, add in Bosh & Ray Allen and you think they would be on par with MIL who has no one even on Bosh's level, let alone Wade? No way...

But it's not just about the talent on the team, look at this years lakers. Taking Lebron off that team completely changes the dynamic, he's the primary ball handler and facilitator, he's counted on to defend any and all positions, and he's the go to guy in clutch situations (even though he does get undue criticism for making the right pass instead of playing hero ball). The heat without Lebron would still be better than MIL, and Bosh and Wade would step up in his absence, but running the O through Mario Chalmers or Dwayne Wade would drastically change the way they play together as a team. Wade is a pretty good passer (especially for a SG) but he's not the facilitator that Lebron is and the heat are better off with him worrying about scoring more than passing. And not having Lebron is a huge blow on defense too, they'd go from a top defensive team to a middle of the pack defensive team without Lebron.

kozelkid
03-28-2013, 06:08 PM
They wouldn't have to.

MIA is going to win around 65 games this year... NY & IND around 50... they can take a huge hit and still be #1

The talent level gap between MIA & the rest of the east is huge

Lebron James is THAT big of a difference. He, alone, provides almost 30 wins to that team. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/VORPe

And even, if you want to say that Bosh and Wade would provide more with no Lebron (which is a fair point), I still think it's fair to think they lost nearly 20 wins. I'm not saying they'll be an 8th seed, but I don't think they'd be better than any of the other top teams in the east namely Indiana, New York and Chicago.

WARRIORS@GR
03-28-2013, 06:22 PM
4th-6th seed probably.
Now,are the bobcats or magic a top 2 seed with lebron?i say yes they are.

ManningToTyree
03-28-2013, 06:26 PM
I don't think so. They would be a contender to reach the finals because the east is awful but they wouldn't beat the Spurs, clippers or thunder IMO

bucketss
03-28-2013, 06:27 PM
Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Haslem, miller, Chalmers, Allen, Birdman, Joel, Battier>>>>>>>>>>>Durant, Westy, Ibaka, Collison, Jackson, Martin, sefolosha>>>>Timmy, Gino, Parker, Green, Splitter, Leonard, Jackson. What is your point here? The Heat's roster ***** all over those two.

you're basketball knowledge must be low if you're putting that much ">>>>" in front, you don't even come close to comprehending how valuable the spurs depth is, with two solid big men in front. mvp candidate parker, and manu off the bench.. . the thunder have two legit superstars and martin off the bench, defensive player of the year candidate starting at pf. just stop .

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 06:43 PM
you're basketball knowledge must be low if you're putting that much ">>>>" in front, you don't even come close to comprehending how valuable the spurs depth is, with two solid big men in front. mvp candidate parker, and manu off the bench.. . the thunder have two legit superstars and martin off the bench, defensive player of the year candidate starting at pf. just stop .

Okkkk???? The Heat have the (best player on planet earth) a top 5 player Wade (according to Heat fans) a Third all star Bosh(best 3rd option in the league), the greatest three point shooter of all time in Ray Allen, solid hustle/perfect roles players in Haslem, Birdman, Battier, Chalmers, and topped off with a good cast of shooters/3pt shooters. Try again.

Tony_Starks
03-28-2013, 06:43 PM
You guys don't think Ray Allen could still be a starter on most teams in the league? Or that Lewis and Miller couldn't be getting PT on most teams when they can't even get off the Miami bench? Not to mention Battier who has played lock down D and hit 3's on every team he's been on?

Come on man let's be serious, their "supporting cast" is more than adequate. People act like as soon as a player puts on a Heat jersey he's automatically a scrub....

xxplayerxx23
03-28-2013, 06:45 PM
No chance. Maybe top 5 in the east though

Hawkeye15
03-28-2013, 07:24 PM
I think you've backed yourself into a corner and don't want to take back what you said.
I know you would like to believe that the Heats success rest solely on Lebrons shoulders, but that's just simply not the case my man. Take the top player out of each team you just listed.
What team do you take?

Wade, Bosh, Haslem, Battier, Chalmers, Miller, Birdman, Allen.

Timmy, Tiago, Green, Gino, Jackson, Blair, Mills, Diaw.

Westbrook, Ibaka, Collision, Jackson, Martin, Maynor, Perkins.

The choice is as clear as day.

The problem is, I fear I will spend 10 minutes writing a post that totally craps on your theory, and it will be thrown aside. That is why I continue not to give a **** about responding.

I meant what I said. I see you have potential, I just think you are too hard headed sometimes to open up and be willing to admit that your assessment of Kobe, LeBron, and many others, may be short sighted.

and yes, the choice is clear as day. Both those teams are going to be stronger than the Heat.

b@llhog24
03-28-2013, 07:38 PM
Outside of the big 3 (a big three that doesn't really even fit together) the Heat aren't that great of a team. Just a bunch of three point shooters and some hustle guys.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 07:40 PM
The problem is, I fear I will spend 10 minutes writing a post that totally craps on your theory, and it will be thrown aside. That is why I continue not to give a **** about responding.

I meant what I said. I see you have potential, I just think you are too hard headed sometimes to open up and be willing to admit that your assessment of Kobe, LeBron, and many others, may be short sighted.

and yes, the choice is clear as day. Both those teams are going to be stronger than the Heat.

So you're saying you would much rather have the thunder/spurs 2-8 players? Come on hawkeye, don't be silly.

Hawkeye15
03-28-2013, 07:41 PM
So you're saying you would much rather have the thunder/spurs 2-8 players? Come on hawkeye, don't be silly.

yes I would.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 07:42 PM
Outside of the big 3 (a big three that doesn't really even fit together) the Heat aren't that great of a team. Just a bunch of three point shooters and some hustle guys.

Way to downgrade the best 3 man combo in the league/Great great bench production. All this post basically means is Lebron carries the heat.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 07:43 PM
yes I would.

Lol! Ok hawkeye, if you say so... Care to compare players 2-5 on all three teams?

Hawkeye15
03-28-2013, 07:47 PM
Lol! Ok hawkeye, if you say so... Care to compare players 2-5 on all three teams?

not really. Rotations are what matter. 2-8, SA and OKC are better.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 07:54 PM
not really. Rotations are what matter. 2-8, SA and OKC are better.

check mate:D. Hawkeye just stop man, We all know the Heat have better players. Those two teams might have good players for their system, but the Heat have the "better basketball players". No other team in the league has anything near the 5-7 man rotaion the Heat have.

b@llhog24
03-28-2013, 07:57 PM
Way to downgrade the best 3 man combo in the league/Great great bench production. All this post basically means is Lebron carries the heat.

Captain obvious.

Weezy
03-28-2013, 08:02 PM
Captain obvious.

:laugh2: BTW I always crack up when I see your sig.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 08:03 PM
Captain obvious.

Well, You couldn't be more wrong. Try again.

LakersLockdwn
03-28-2013, 08:08 PM
The Knicks/Pacers/Boston/Chicago could all take the Heat in 7 without Lebron

b@llhog24
03-28-2013, 08:09 PM
:laugh2: BTW I always crack up when I see your sig.

Just doing my job. :bow:

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 08:12 PM
Just doing my job. :bow:

You're not as good of a troll as you think, Lol

Htownballa1622
03-28-2013, 08:23 PM
You're not as good of a troll as you think, Lol

Why in EVERY thread about LeBron or the heat you and your laker friends feel the need to comment?

Y'all are more obsessed than you realize.

bucketss
03-28-2013, 08:26 PM
Okkkk???? The Heat have the (best player on planet earth) a top 5 player Wade (according to Heat fans) a Third all star Bosh(best 3rd option in the league), the greatest three point shooter of all time in Ray Allen, solid hustle/perfect roles players in Haslem, Birdman, Battier, Chalmers, and topped off with a good cast of shooters/3pt shooters. Try again.

okay heat have a better team i know that, i was just calling you out on your exaggerations.

Hawkeye15
03-28-2013, 08:35 PM
check mate:D. Hawkeye just stop man, We all know the Heat have better players. Those two teams might have good players for their system, but the Heat have the "better basketball players". No other team in the league has anything near the 5-7 man rotaion the Heat have.

do you get it yet that I really don't feel like elaborating with posters that will just toss away the facts I give them?

theheatles
03-28-2013, 08:44 PM
Assuming LeBron doesn't go to another team in the conference, the Heat will be no worse than a 3 seed.

mngopher35
03-28-2013, 09:32 PM
I see a 4-5 seed, but I just think they would be lacking enough size to do much without lebron. I mean they would be weak at point, small forward, and center while having great sg combo and a great pf with weak backup.

Chalmers/Cole
Wade/Allen
Battier/Miller/Jones
Bosh/Lewis
Haslem/Anderson

William/Watson
Johnson/Brooks
Wallace/Bogans
Evans/Hump/Mizra
Lopez/Blatche

They would be fighting that nets team for third and I just don't see them winning. Nets bigs are all around better to me . Then they dominate at pg, and are even at sf. Miami wins shooting guard but it isn't enough of a difference to make up for the rest.

Aust
03-28-2013, 11:36 PM
Yeah, they probably would be the top team in the east without Lebron. Insane really

bklynny67
03-29-2013, 12:03 AM
Is this a serious question? Without James, I think they would be more like a 6 or 7 seed. Seriously, that team has very little depth. Wade and Bosh couldn't carry them to the top of the East.

b@llhog24
03-29-2013, 12:12 AM
Why in EVERY thread about LeBron or the heat you and your laker friends feel the need to comment?

Y'all are more obsessed than you realize.

Yet they call me the irrational one, funny how that works out huh?

Htownballa1622
03-29-2013, 12:39 AM
Yet they call me the irrational one, funny how that works out huh?

:nod:

Avenged
03-29-2013, 12:52 AM
I see a 4-5 seed, but I just think they would be lacking enough size to do much without lebron. I mean they would be weak at point, small forward, and center while having great sg combo and a great pf with weak backup.

Chalmers/Cole
Wade/Allen
Battier/Miller/Jones
Bosh/Lewis
Haslem/Anderson

William/Watson
Johnson/Brooks
Wallace/Bogans
Evans/Hump/Mizra
Lopez/Blatche

They would be fighting that nets team for third and I just don't see them winning. Nets bigs are all around better to me . Then they dominate at pg, and are even at sf. Miami wins shooting guard but it isn't enough of a difference to make up for the rest.

Yep. They'd get a solid seed, but once the playoffs get going, they just wouldn't have the beneficial match-ups.

It also depends on which Wade they get. If it's 2008-2010 Wade, with a prime Bosh, that alone would give some teams scares imo.

TheIlladelph16
03-29-2013, 01:03 AM
If we are talking a completely healthy east with Lebron removed from the equation completely, they are probably a 3-5 seed pretty comfortably. I see Bulls and Pacers are definitely better teams. They would battle with the Knicks, Sixers, and Nets for spots 3-6.

That defense would go from very good to atrocious very quickly without Lebron and their bench goes from kinda above average to terrible. The bench would hurt them with the minutes Wade would have to log in order to actually compete for a top 3 seed.

bucketss
03-29-2013, 01:05 AM
If we are talking a completely healthy east with Lebron removed from the equation completely, they are probably a 3-5 seed pretty comfortably. I see Bulls and Pacers are definitely better teams. They would battle with the Knicks, Sixers, and Nets for spots 3-6.

That defense would go from very good to atrocious very quickly without Lebron and their bench goes from kinda above average to terrible. The bench would hurt them with the minutes Wade would have to log in order to actually compete for a top 3 seed.

sixers?

HouRealCoach
03-29-2013, 01:23 AM
Wade & Bosh would have HCA with or without LeBron... 2 years ago I would have said they'd have a chance to be in the finals but now they make it no farther than ECF

TheIlladelph16
03-29-2013, 01:23 AM
Add a healthy Bynum and J Rich to that team if we are talking a healthy east. That team is a top 6 in th East for damn sure.

Edit: addressing Buckets. Phone missed the quote for some reason

bklynny67
03-29-2013, 02:28 AM
Add a healthy Bynum and J Rich to that team if we are talking a healthy east. That team is a top 6 in th East for damn sure.

Edit: addressing Buckets. Phone missed the quote for some reason

PHL is currently 15 games UNDER .500. The 6th seed is currently 8 games OVER .500. So you're saying with a healthy Bynum and J Rich, (and remember that means the rest of the East has all their players healthy too, like Granger), just those two would cause 23 game swing???

Excuse me, but.... BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

giants73756
03-29-2013, 02:52 AM
Wade's Heat teams were never very good after Shaq left. Of course they wouldn't be the best without Lebron.

giants73756
03-29-2013, 02:54 AM
Add a healthy Bynum and J Rich to that team if we are talking a healthy east. That team is a top 6 in th East for damn sure.

Edit: addressing Buckets. Phone missed the quote for some reason

PHL is currently 15 games UNDER .500. The 6th seed is currently 8 games OVER .500. So you're saying with a healthy Bynum and J Rich, (and remember that means the rest of the East has all their players healthy too, like Granger), just those two would cause PHL to win 23 more games than they have so far???

Excuse me, but.... BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
Your math is off. It would be 12 wins.

TheIlladelph16
03-29-2013, 08:43 AM
PHL is currently 15 games UNDER .500. The 6th seed is currently 8 games OVER .500. So you're saying with a healthy Bynum and J Rich, (and remember that means the rest of the East has all their players healthy too, like Granger), just those two would cause PHL to win 23 more games than they have so far???

Excuse me, but.... BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

^math is indeed off there

And yeah I 100% believe that. The Sixers were constructed to play around Bynum and Holiday and surround them with shooters. They would probably be around a six seed closer to Boston and Atlanta than the others, but they are certainly better than Milwaukee with Bynum and Richardson.

flips333
03-29-2013, 08:52 AM
They would be up there. I would assume you would replace Lebron with average center... so ya know they had one. Then they would be in the mix with the Knicks, Bulls, Pacers and Nets. Bulls with Rose would be the best team... but they don't got that now. Alot of it depends on Wade's level of play.

Dankster
03-29-2013, 08:53 AM
It all depends if they would have players coming back to them to match the salary Lebron is making. If the Heat had their currently assembled team and no Lebron on there, I don't think they're a top 3 seed in the East right now.

LotusF1Celtics
03-29-2013, 09:18 AM
MVP is pretty much always given to the best player on one of the top 5 or so teams. Lebron is the best player in the league and his team is at the top. I agree that doesn't always get you the actual mvp but that is how it's always done. Either way this year Lebron has been the best player, leading the best team, and his team had a 27 game win streak. I don't think there really is an argument for anyone else (durant has westbrook and ibaka and he is the next best player).

It's not how it's always done. If so, how did Nash won two MVP's? T-Mac and Kobe was the best players before but Tim Duncan and KG was considered to be the MVP's of the league back in those days, and they won the MVP award. TWolves was not the best team, definitely, when KG won the award.

But the Heat is so dominating this year that it's hard to give the MVP to any other player other than LBJ, though. And no one really played special this year to contest against what LBJ is doing for his team right now.

As for the topic, yes they can be the top in the east without LBJ, if they added a few pieces to match the salary that LBJ would free up. Wade when healthy and Bosh with a few good pieces is enough to lead a team. They have Ray too, so that's a pretty good team even without LBJ.

SanAntonioSpurs23
03-29-2013, 09:37 AM
Not at all. top 3 seed in East,but thats not saying much

Sly Guy
03-29-2013, 11:04 AM
Better than NY w/o melo

this. But they wouldn't top the east.

Nick O
03-29-2013, 11:16 AM
theyd still be a title threat... but maybe not number 1

Steelers23_06
03-29-2013, 11:46 AM
So wait is lebron still in east? Because if so how's he's playing now I don't see him going to any team in the east and not making them an instant title contender. But if he's in west/just not on team I say the heat are an ecf team like bulls with no mj

metsbulls1025
03-29-2013, 11:50 AM
If they didn't have Lebron they would be able to have better role players around Wade and Bosh. But you also have to think Eric Spoelstra would be exposed because Lebron wouldn't be there to carry the team through his terrible coaching. Also the team would hit low points with Wade needing to sit out multiple games and again no Lebron to carry the load of scoring.

IMO they would be anywhere in the 3-5 seed range.

flips333
03-29-2013, 11:59 AM
So wait is lebron still in east? Because if so how's he's playing now I don't see him going to any team in the east and not making them an instant title contender. But if he's in west/just not on team I say the heat are an ecf team like bulls with no mj

No.... That bulls team the year Jordan left won 55 games and lost the eastern conference semi-s on a bum call. The supporting cast in miami is not as good as it was for the bulls.