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JordansBulls
03-28-2013, 10:39 AM
Which two guards make 1st team All NBA this season?


You got
CP3
Parker
Westbrook
Kobe
Harden
Wade

Which two do you put on the 1st team?

Tony_Starks
03-28-2013, 10:57 AM
Parker and Kobe easy....

jsimms92
03-28-2013, 11:09 AM
It should be CP3 and Tony Parker but kobe will probably get on the first team over tony

DListheTRUTH
03-28-2013, 11:14 AM
Kobe and CP3. They all had really good years and no one really stood out over the others ala D Rose in 2011 so seniority rules.

jsimms92
03-28-2013, 11:17 AM
Kobe and CP3. They all had really good years and no one really stood out over the others ala D Rose in 2011 so seniority rules.

how has parker not stood out with the numbers he has put up this season on the best team in the west

b@llhog24
03-28-2013, 11:27 AM
Cp3 and a toss up between Harden and Parker.

JordansBulls
03-28-2013, 11:34 AM
I was thinking Harden should make it actually.

DListheTRUTH
03-28-2013, 11:35 AM
how has parker not stood out with the numbers he has put up this season on the best team in the west

He's been good but not better than Kobe. Timmy D has been really good this year as well for the Spurs.

zn23
03-28-2013, 11:37 AM
Who makes it: CP3 and Kobe

Who deserves it: Parker and Wade.

Parker's injury might play a factor in the selection so I expect CP3 to make it regardless. But Wade has definitely been the best SG in the league. On both sides. He's been great offensively and defensively. The other SG's have only played one side of the ball.

slaker619
03-28-2013, 11:44 AM
You right !

slaker619
03-28-2013, 11:45 AM
Who makes it: CP3 and Kobe

Who deserves it: Parker and Wade.

Parker's injury might play a factor in the selection so I expect CP3 to make it regardless. But Wade has definitely been the best SG in the league. On both sides. He's been great offensively and defensively. The other SG's have only played one side of the ball.

You right !

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 11:58 AM
Parker and Kobe easy....

Most likely this!

nickdymez
03-28-2013, 12:05 PM
Who makes it: CP3 and Kobe

Who deserves it: Parker and Wade.

Parker's injury might play a factor in the selection so I expect CP3 to make it regardless. But Wade has definitely been the best SG in the league. On both sides. He's been great offensively and defensively. The other SG's have only played one side of the ball.

Wade?

Tony_Starks
03-28-2013, 12:10 PM
Lol at people saying Wade. The same Wade that during the first half of the season everyone was asking "is Wade finished?"

That's laughable, it took him a few months to even get healthy..

Oldmantrash
03-28-2013, 12:14 PM
I think it should be CP3, and Parker

Kobe, Westbrook next

Slug3
03-28-2013, 12:16 PM
I really hope Parker gets a spot. He really deserves it.

lol, please
03-28-2013, 12:19 PM
Curry.

KniCks4LiFe
03-28-2013, 12:39 PM
CP3 and Harden

BklynKnicks3
03-28-2013, 12:39 PM
cp3 kobe easy. Should be cp3kobedurantmelolebron

blams
03-28-2013, 12:50 PM
how has parker not stood out with the numbers he has put up this season on the best team in the west

He's been good but not better than Kobe. Timmy D has been really good this year as well for the Spurs.
One of the worst defenders in the nba right now. No chance .. (kobe)

Stinkyoutsider
03-28-2013, 12:55 PM
I think Parker should make it for sure. But the other guard position is harder to figure out? Paul, Harden, and Kobe have all had fanstastic years.

The Clippers have a lot of talent on their squad but I think Paul is still the main component of the team. Harden has opened everyone's eyes to show that he can carry and lead a team. But, if I had a vote, Kobe is my other guard this year. With all the craziness going on in LA, Kobe has done so much to keep the team floating above the drop (playoffs) this year. I remember him saying that he would be much better this year because he wouldn't have to do any of the playmaking (Nash's job). Kobe found out that Nash just isn't up to it full time this year so Kobe has taken that over too and has also continued to carry the team and get Howard's mind right.

Nats_vcu-Okc35
03-28-2013, 01:09 PM
For those who are interested, here's a comparison setup between the following:

Paul
Parker
Harden
Westbrook
Wade
Bryant

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=parketo01&y1=2013&p2=bryanko01&y2=2013&p3=paulch01&y3=2013&p4=hardeja01&y4=2013&p5=wadedw01&y5=2013&p6=westbru01&y6=2013

mdm692
03-28-2013, 01:25 PM
For those who are interested, here's a comparison setup between the following:

Paul
Parker
Harden
Westbrook
Wade
Bryant

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=parketo01&y1=2013&p2=bryanko01&y2=2013&p3=paulch01&y3=2013&p4=hardeja01&y4=2013&p5=wadedw01&y5=2013&p6=westbru01&y6=2013
Stats don't lie unfortunately the people who vote do.

numba1CHANGsta
03-28-2013, 01:30 PM
Kobe and CP3, Parker is boring so he will get 2nd place :)

FraziersKnicks
03-28-2013, 01:34 PM
It should be CP3 and Tony but it will be CP3 and Kobe

colinskik
03-28-2013, 01:37 PM
Westbrook and Parker have lead their teams to the best records.

And I think Harden deserves recognition for how he's transformed his game, but that will probably come in the form of Most Improved Player.

Ultimately, I think CP3 and Westbrook for several reasons. Voters love CP3 and he is actually deserving. Westbrook has been outstanding and healthy all year. Due to his recent injury streak, Parker's terrific season will probably be overlooked, yet again, unless voters realize it's about time he gets some recognition.

If Kobe gets it then :facepalm:

Avenged
03-28-2013, 01:40 PM
I'd go with Paul and Parker.

TP is easily one of the most underrated players if not the most.

Hawkeye15
03-28-2013, 01:58 PM
Who is SHOULD be?

Paul/Parker

Who it will be?
Paul/Kobe

With Parker missing so many games as of late, he will get shafted. Harden is a young buck, Wade a #2, and Kobe has Bryant written on the back of his jersey, so the analysts who refuse to put a lot of thought in this will vote him in. Statistically, Kobe is probably behind Paul, Parker, Westbrook, Harden, and Wade. But the voters don't do that much research.

Hawkeye15
03-28-2013, 01:58 PM
I'd go with Paul and Parker.

TP is easily one of the most underrated players if not the most.

him missing so many games recently may have an impact imo. Maybe not, who knows...

Faneik
03-28-2013, 02:03 PM
cp3 is a lock.

the 2nd spot should go to parker or harden.

Stunner
03-28-2013, 02:11 PM
Harden Kobe

shep33
03-28-2013, 02:36 PM
What's the criteria for these guys to be selected? Individual stats? Team record?

For me I'd go CP3 and Parker.

Wade and Kobe on 2nd team.

ThaDubs
03-28-2013, 02:56 PM
Who makes it: Kobe and CP3
Who should make it: Parker and Harden

JasonJohnHorn
03-28-2013, 03:06 PM
I gotta say, I see Kobe and CP3 on the first team. There are arguments for other guys obviously, but I think that is how the voting will go down.

3RDASYSTEM
03-28-2013, 03:25 PM
Whatever 2 guards have the best win-loss records

on a side note MWP should win MIP since his PER this season for LA is highest in yrs, like 09'....

its going to be a combo of CP3/HARDEN or CP3/BEAN or PARKER/HARDEN or PARKER/BEAN , if WADE was healthy from start of season he would be easily on the list

b@llhog24
03-28-2013, 03:38 PM
Who makes it: CP3 and Kobe

Who deserves it: Parker and Wade.

Parker's injury might play a factor in the selection so I expect CP3 to make it regardless. But Wade has definitely been the best SG in the league. On both sides. He's been great offensively and defensively. The other SG's have only played one side of the ball.

No. It's who's been the best guard, there's no PG/SG, just guard.

b@llhog24
03-28-2013, 03:38 PM
Whatever 2 guards have the best win-loss records

on a side note MWP should win MIP since his PER this season for LA is highest in yrs, like 09'....

its going to be a combo of CP3/HARDEN or CP3/BEAN or PARKER/HARDEN or PARKER/BEAN , if WADE was healthy from start of season he would be easily on the list

Horrible line of thinking.

b@llhog24
03-28-2013, 03:39 PM
Paul and Harden are the two best guards in the Nba right now, but Parker has the better record so obviously he should get some heavy consideration over Harden.

ChiSox219
03-28-2013, 04:05 PM
Paul and Harden are the two best guards in the Nba right now, but Parker has the better record so obviously he should get some heavy consideration over Harden.

I agree, and with Harden playing more games + 5 minutes more per game I think he deserves a spot over Parker even more so if you consider supporting casts.

BKdoubleStacker
03-28-2013, 04:13 PM
CP3 is a lock, and the other choice is a toss up between parker/harden

Chronz
03-28-2013, 04:18 PM
CP3 and I dont care who else comes next.

b@llhog24
03-28-2013, 07:28 PM
I agree, and with Harden playing more games + 5 minutes more per game I think he deserves a spot over Parker even more so if you consider supporting casts.

Yea, was gonna edit my post to say *should/would get heavy consideration. Harden deserves it more but just going with historical precedent.

Tony_Starks
03-28-2013, 07:42 PM
I like how people think Kobe is going to get some kind of sympathy vote. Like he hasn't been ballin out of this world, leading sg's in points and assist, and having one of his most efficient seasons ever...

Hawkeye15
03-28-2013, 07:50 PM
I like how people think Kobe is going to get some kind of sympathy vote. Like he hasn't been ballin out of this world, leading sg's in points and assist, and having one of his most efficient seasons ever...

sympathy vote? No. But there have been better guards, period. He will get name recognition, that is just how it happens.

In 8 years, when LeBron is no longer deserving of being on all defense, 1st team all NBA, etc, he will still get there, and people will bring it up again. Jeter winning golden gloves at age 34? haha. Please.

bucketss
03-28-2013, 07:59 PM
harden and paul

JerseyPalahniuk
03-28-2013, 08:01 PM
Should be CP3 and Parker. Kobe might get voted ahead of Parker because of his recent injury.

theheatles
03-28-2013, 08:47 PM
Los Angeles

TheNumber37
03-28-2013, 09:19 PM
CP3 and Kobe.
Parker will get 2nd team though he has a case over Paul, not Kobe, though who has CARRIED his team to... well, we'll see) with Wade
3rd team will be Harden and Westbrook for the story.

mngopher35
03-28-2013, 09:45 PM
I think it should be CP3 and Parker with Harden and Kobe 2nd team. It will probably end up with kobe instead of parker though.

kdspurman
03-28-2013, 09:45 PM
Why do people keep bringing up Parker's injury as if CP3 miss several weeks earlier in the season as well? Are his chances hurt more because his injury came later in the season? Parker has played 59/71 games and Paul has played 60/72.

Chronz
03-28-2013, 10:39 PM
Why do people keep bringing up Parker's injury as if CP3 miss several weeks earlier in the season as well? Are his chances hurt more because his injury came later in the season? Parker has played 59/71 games and Paul has played 60/72.
Its more about what the injury revealed about their teams.

CP3 has superior numbers, the team suffered a greater setback without him, and he has a sexier game that voters love (as in pass first/coach on the floor type leader)

Chronz
03-28-2013, 10:42 PM
CP3 and Kobe.
Parker will get 2nd team though he has a case over Paul, not Kobe, though who has CARRIED his team to... well, we'll see) with Wade
3rd team will be Harden and Westbrook for the story.

What makes you think he has a case over CP3 but not Kobe?

CP3 will likely finish in the top-4 for MVP. I understand they are different awards but MVP hype is a pretty good precursor, and I think CP3 has more of that than either TP or Kobe, now those 2 are more of a debate.


And yea, people might put more emphasis on how the 2 close the year. When CP3 started struggling with injuries the Clips were challenging for the first seed, while TP was out, the Spurs maintained it.

kdspurman
03-28-2013, 10:49 PM
Its more about what the injury revealed about their teams.

CP3 has superior numbers, the team suffered a greater setback without him, and he has a sexier game that voters love (as in pass first/coach on the floor type leader)

I can understand both of those. Spurs didn't play "great" teams (they played OKC and some decent teams) during the stretch TP was out, and played only 1 road game out of 8 total games. So the home crowd tends to make the other guys level of play go up.

But I just didn't think because of Parker's injury he has no argument anymore. I'm a realist and know he won't get in, and it'll be Paul/Kobe, but I didn't think his injury should have much to do with it

mvb815
03-28-2013, 11:06 PM
kobe easy, the other one is a toss up

AntiG
03-29-2013, 12:00 AM
CP3 and Harden.

b@llhog24
03-29-2013, 12:10 AM
Tony only overtook Paul because Paul got injured, so you could work the "oh he's played more games so thus he is more valuable" angle. Now that they've played a similar amount of games, it's Cp3 pretty easily.

Bruno
03-29-2013, 12:33 AM
i think it should be Chris Paul and James Harden.

Bruno
03-29-2013, 12:34 AM
Parker has been brilliant but he's probably the weakest defensive guard in the discussion. that's gotta count for something.

DumDum
03-29-2013, 01:36 AM
Curry and Parker

kdspurman
03-29-2013, 09:38 AM
Parker has been brilliant but he's probably the weakest defensive guard in the discussion. that's gotta count for something.

I disagree. His defense has been vastly underrated by a lot of people on this board, and that's probably from folks who haven't seen the progress he's made. I definitely would not consider him the weakest of the guards in discussion.


1. His minus 4.0 on/off total on defense (the amount of points the Spurs give up per 100 possessions when he’s on the court compared to off) is third-best on the Spurs, trailing Tiago Splitter (minus 6.8) and Kawhi Leonard (minus 4.8) but ahead of Duncan (minus 3.5).

2. Opposing players register a 13.3 PER (15.0 is average) with a 43.5 effective field-goal percentage while matched up against Parker, according to 82games.com. For comparison’s sake, Memphis guard Tony Allen, widely considered one of the NBA’s top perimeter defenders, holds his opponents to a 13.6 PER on 51.6 eFG.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2013/03/18/is-tony-parker-a-better-defender-than-we-think/

Hardaway Here
03-29-2013, 02:43 PM
It should be cp3 and parker. I dont see how Kobe makes first team with his horrid defense, but I guess people will continue to ignore that and give him defensive 1st team to.

D-Leethal
03-29-2013, 02:46 PM
CP3 and Iman Shumpert

MaloDaw9
03-29-2013, 02:46 PM
CP3 and Kobe, who else.

futureman
03-29-2013, 02:47 PM
Lillard and Wade.

D-Leethal
03-29-2013, 02:47 PM
CP3 and Kobe, who else.

Iman Shumpert.

conway429
03-29-2013, 03:07 PM
CP3 and Curry

sunsfan88
03-29-2013, 03:26 PM
Parker & CP3 easily.

b@llhog24
03-29-2013, 10:27 PM
I disagree. His defense has been vastly underrated by a lot of people on this board, and that's probably from folks who haven't seen the progress he's made. I definitely would not consider him the weakest of the guards in discussion.



http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2013/03/18/is-tony-parker-a-better-defender-than-we-think/

So who's he better than defensively then?

kdspurman
03-29-2013, 11:28 PM
So who's he better than defensively then?

Kobe? Not sure about Harden, but fairly certain he's better defensively, more consistently than Kobe. It's been a point of emphasis this year with the Spurs as a whole, and a big reason they're back to a top 3 defensive team. Lakers not so much. We know Kobe can get amped up and get all in guys faces and make it tough for them. But overall, I think TP is consistently better.

DumDum
03-30-2013, 01:45 AM
Curry

amos1er
03-30-2013, 03:46 AM
Kobe and CP3. No brainer.

Lord Leoshes
03-30-2013, 04:12 PM
Who makes it: CP3 and Kobe

Who deserves it: Parker and Wade.

Parker's injury might play a factor in the selection so I expect CP3 to make it regardless. But Wade has definitely been the best SG in the league. On both sides. He's been great offensively and defensively. The other SG's have only played one side of the ball.

This right here.
In a game of horse, or around the world where you do not need to defend anyone then sure Kobe, or Harden would do, but in an actual NBA game where you have to play defense 50% of the time then it is clear , & without a doubt that Wade is the best player.

What is the point of scoring 26, & 27 points a game when the guy you are guarding scores just as much.
Wade is the only one the can win you games just by his defensive pressure.

Lord Leoshes
03-30-2013, 04:29 PM
Parker has been brilliant but he's probably the weakest defensive guard in the discussion. that's gotta count for something.

I would say him, Harden, & Kobe are all horrible defenders.

Bets in order of defense is .
1 Wade





2 Westbrook


3 Paul




4 Parker
5 Harden
6 Kobe

physically Wade, & Westbrook are much closer, but when it comes to mentally Wade is at the top of his class, while Westbrook is struggling with Special Ed classes.

FraziersKnicks
03-30-2013, 04:38 PM
I hope to god Kobe doesn't blindly get another 1st team... CP3 and Parker deserve it over him soooooo much

Bruno
04-01-2013, 07:00 PM
I disagree. His defense has been vastly underrated by a lot of people on this board, and that's probably from folks who haven't seen the progress he's made. I definitely would not consider him the weakest of the guards in discussion.



http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2013/03/18/is-tony-parker-a-better-defender-than-we-think/

solid, thanks for the information.

i might try to argue that teams score more points against the Spurs without Parker on the floor because their guards don't have to spend all their energy on defense chasing Parker around the court (and thus get to focus more of their energy on their offense). But his defensive PER is no doubt impressive and I'll take your word for it since I know you know what you're talking about, and you watch a lot more Spurs basketball than I do.

I do also think that Kobe is a better defender than you give him credit for. I've watched nearly every game this year, he's been better than he was last year and the year before that. The justice outcry in regards to him being over-rated on defense has swung its pendulum so far in the other direction that it's become equally as inaccurate as the believe that he is an elite first team defender.

amos1er
04-01-2013, 07:08 PM
It should be cp3 and parker. I dont see how Kobe makes first team with his horrid defense, but I guess people will continue to ignore that and give him defensive 1st team to.

lol...Thats why they have a separate All NBA team for defense. I don't know how to respond further with out being offensive. I will say that I am seriously considering adding this to my sig though, but I have to decide which foolish statement I am willing to part with in order to add this one in it's place.

amos1er
04-01-2013, 07:10 PM
This right here.
In a game of horse, or around the world where you do not need to defend anyone then sure Kobe, or Harden would do, but in an actual NBA game where you have to play defense 50% of the time then it is clear , & without a doubt that Wade is the best player.

What is the point of scoring 26, & 27 points a game when the guy you are guarding scores just as much.
Wade is the only one the can win you games just by his defensive pressure.

So you don't think that Wade being the second option to Lebron offensively has anything to do with him having more energy in the tank on the defensive end?

Hawkeye15
04-01-2013, 07:10 PM
lol...Thats why they have a separate All NBA team for defense. I don't know how to respond further with out being offensive. I will say that I am seriously considering adding this to my sig though, but I have to decide which foolish statement I am willing to part with in order to add this one in it's place.

so, all NBA teams shouldn't factor in both sides of the floor? You stated it yourself, that is why they have separate teams for defense. But saying Kobe was a top 2 guard as far as impact this season is false.

That being said, wouldn't surprise me if Parker/Harden/Westbrook were passed over due to Kobe's name.

Chronz
04-01-2013, 07:48 PM
lol...Thats why they have a separate All NBA team for defense.
No they have a separate team to award ONLY defense, All-NBA is meant to encompass ALL ASPECTS. Hence its name. There is no All-Offensive team.


I don't know how to respond further with out being offensive.
Apparently you dont know how to respond without being objective either. Nothing new here.

THE MTL
04-01-2013, 07:51 PM
CP3 and Kobe (as long as he makes playoffs) will make it. Im not arguing whether they deserve it or not, but it will be those 2.

Jetsguy
04-01-2013, 07:53 PM
Cp3
Parker/Harden

kdspurman
04-01-2013, 08:10 PM
solid, thanks for the information.

i might try to argue that teams score more points against the Spurs without Parker on the floor because their guards don't have to spend all their energy on defense chasing Parker around the court (and thus get to focus more of their energy on their offense). But his defensive PER is no doubt impressive and I'll take your word for it since I know you know what you're talking about, and you watch a lot more Spurs basketball than I do.

I do also think that Kobe is a better defender than you give him credit for. I've watched nearly every game this year, he's been better than he was last year and the year before that. The justice outcry in regards to him being over-rated on defense has swung its pendulum so far in the other direction that it's become equally as inaccurate as the believe that he is an elite first team defender.

Fair enough. I won't try and argue Kobe's defense with you really, I don't watch every game like I do the Spurs. I do know the games I've watched recently he's (Kobe) seemed to take it up a level, where early on I didn't see as much emphasis/focus on it. (Though again I only watched a select few) Then again, it could be related to having Dwight at times and there being a little too much reliance on him (?) I'm not a Kobe hater, so I'm not in the "he doesn't play defense" boat, my general consensus on him was he played average defense, and was able to turn it up when needed, or if he goes up against guys like Lebron/Durant/Melo etc... But I realize that could be wrong, which I'm fine with.

Good point about Parker too. I think someones offensive game can affect that, and I saw that the 8 games Parker was out how our defensive #'s too a nice little hit despite our 2 main guys (Duncan, Leonard) still being there.

It almost sounds like Parker & Kobe are in similar position both having reputations for not playing D but both being much improved.

Bruno
04-01-2013, 08:57 PM
Fair enough. I won't try and argue Kobe's defense with you really, I don't watch every game like I do the Spurs. I do know the games I've watched recently he's (Kobe) seemed to take it up a level, where early on I didn't see as much emphasis/focus on it. (Though again I only watched a select few) Then again, it could be related to having Dwight at times and there being a little too much reliance on him (?) I'm not a Kobe hater, so I'm not in the "he doesn't play defense" boat, my general consensus on him was he played average defense, and was able to turn it up when needed, or if he goes up against guys like Lebron/Durant/Melo etc... But I realize that could be wrong, which I'm fine with.

I don't think that that's an unfair analysis, but I'd consider him above average. Does he become more elite with effort? Totally. But at his age, with his offensive role, with his minute per game average, I don't think it would be sustainable to ask him to play elite defense every single game, every single minute. It would be detrimental to his offense and he's too important for the Lakers offense, especially since he became the floor general.


Good point about Parker too. I think someones offensive game can affect that, and I saw that the 8 games Parker was out how our defensive #'s too a nice little hit despite our 2 main guys (Duncan, Leonard) still being there.

totally, especially since Paker has been so brilliant this season.


It almost sounds like Parker & Kobe are in similar position both having reputations for not playing D but both being much improved. I think you're right. with tony he was never given credit because other players like Duncan or Bowen were given all the credit as defensive guns (and perhaps rightfully so since Parker didn't become a better defender until later in his career [right?]) and with Kobe he was given so much credit for so long that a backlash was created on the forums. Kobe is simultaneously over-rated and under-rated on defense. Over-rated by the media (defensive team voters rate him as if he plays like he did against Kyrie all year ever game), under-rated by most non Laker fans on online forums (imo).