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MetroMan
03-26-2013, 02:59 AM
With 4 more points.

Kobe needs 4 more points to pass wilt for fourth on the all time scoring list.on an unrelated note kobe is 33rd on the assist list.


Caw cawwwwwwww


Free as a seagull

Jimmer55
03-26-2013, 03:03 AM
Fly like a seagull. Caw caw caw caw!

asandhu23
03-26-2013, 05:01 AM
Well, it was inevitable.

Kobe started his career at 18 which gives him a huge advantage over Wilt ( 23 ). Kobe is reaching that record at 34 which is near the age when Wilt retired ( 36 ) and was pretty much the third scoring option behind West and Goodrich for the last few years of his career.

setman2000
03-26-2013, 05:53 AM
...as the Lakers flail around .500 mediocrity and an easy 1st round out.

setman2000
03-26-2013, 05:55 AM
I can't wait for the new thread 2 games from now stating " Kobe Bryant Passes Wilt Chamberlain For 4th Place on The All Time Scoring List", when he ACTUALLY F'ING DOES IT!

ThaDubs
03-26-2013, 05:56 AM
Are you ready to flyyyyyy

#gull

setman2000
03-26-2013, 05:58 AM
After Kobe scores 66 points to take over 4th, he'll need to score some more points to take over 3rd.....Discuss.

ThaDubs
03-26-2013, 06:00 AM
After Kobe scores 66 points to take over 4th, he'll need to score some more points to take over 3rd.....Discuss.

He just needs to make sure he shoots 3's whenever possible. He was a deadeye from out there tonight.

Dade County
03-26-2013, 09:27 AM
just keep shooting Kobe, just keep shooting.

Race
03-26-2013, 08:11 PM
I see Sooooo many hater's; and that's fine, some people luv LaQueen James and other's Love the Mamba. No matter who your team is, & who your guy is, you still gotta Respect! Greatness no matter who it is. I've been a Laker fan since 79', I can't stand Boston, San Antionio Sperms, and the put-together Heat.
I CAN'T STAND Duncan, I mean CAN'T STAND HIM, but when he retire's I will give him his credit; The best Power Forward ever. My Point is...if you can't stand Kobe, or you Love Him, he's probably top 4 or 5 of all time when he finially hangs it up.

LAKobeBryant
03-26-2013, 08:20 PM
passes is past tense.

Chronz
03-26-2013, 08:20 PM
Immortal Longevity for the win.

PS How come these threads arent made when Kobe passes someone in FGA? Im assuming he passed Wilt in this a long time ago.

KnicksorBust
03-26-2013, 09:40 PM
Remarkable accomplishment. He truly is one of the greatest players of all-time.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-26-2013, 09:58 PM
Remarkable accomplishment. He truly is one of the greatest players of all-time.

:clap:

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-26-2013, 10:00 PM
Immortal Longevity for the win.

PS How come these threads arent made when Kobe passes someone in FGA? Im assuming he passed Wilt in this a long time ago.

You act like his ability to play at top 5 level for 15 years is a bad thing.

Jimmer55
03-26-2013, 10:02 PM
You act like his ability to play at top 5 level for 15 years is a bad thing.

:dance:

Chronz
03-26-2013, 10:27 PM
You act like his ability to play at top 5 level for 15 years is a bad thing.

And how did I act that way? STRAWMAN ALERT

Chronz
03-26-2013, 10:29 PM
:dance:
LMFAO yea because the word IMMORTAL carries such a negative connotation

NBA_Starter
03-26-2013, 10:42 PM
Congrats Kobe

Raps08-09 Champ
03-26-2013, 10:46 PM
You lied to me. I went in here expecting he already passed it. Jerk.

Hardaway Here
03-26-2013, 10:47 PM
Immortal Longevity for the win.

PS How come these threads arent made when Kobe passes someone in FGA? Im assuming he passed Wilt in this a long time ago.

Efficiency means nothing to Kobe or his fans. They don't focus on things like FGA. So the man will pass up Wilt and history will be made whether he does it with the next 20 baskets or the next 100 baskets. Long live the Mamba

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-26-2013, 10:50 PM
And how did I act that way? STRAWMAN ALERT

You have to add in your cheap shots to make sure your fans know you're trolling.

Chronz
03-26-2013, 10:51 PM
You have to add in your cheap shots to make sure your fans know your trolling.
What cheap shot? What fans?

Are you trolling me?

Bruno
03-27-2013, 12:02 AM
Immortal Longevity for the win.

PS How come these threads arent made when Kobe passes someone in FGA? Im assuming he passed Wilt in this a long time ago.

622 FGAs ago. So say two or three months ago. not that surprising considering the TS% comparison.

Bruno
03-27-2013, 12:07 AM
Efficiency means nothing to Kobe or his fans. They don't focus on things like FGA. So the man will pass up Wilt and history will be made whether he does it with the next 20 baskets or the next 100 baskets. Long live the Mamba

there's nothing wrong with Kobe Bryants scoring efficiency. To date he has a higher career TS% than Wilt, Tim Duncan, Hakeem, and other all-time greats.

kobes lack of career scoring efficiency has been exaggerated. a career TS% of .555 is nothing to be ashamed about. Many all-time greats surpass it, many don't.

DumDum
03-27-2013, 02:13 AM
With all the shots he takes what took him so long?

BKdoubleStacker
03-27-2013, 02:24 AM
Efficiency means nothing to Kobe or his fans. They don't focus on things like FGA. So the man will pass up Wilt and history will be made whether he does it with the next 20 baskets or the next 100 baskets. Long live the Mamba

yes, because a career 45% fg is inefficient for a SG along with a .55% TS%

keep on hating though

jerellh528
03-27-2013, 02:31 AM
Immortal Longevity for the win.

PS How come these threads arent made when Kobe passes someone in FGA? Im assuming he passed Wilt in this a long time ago.

lol because there is never threads on fgas, people only care about point, assists, and rebounds lists.

LeperMessiah
03-27-2013, 02:41 AM
You have to add in your cheap shots to make sure your fans know you're trolling.

You seem to feel alittle offended when he posts in general...

ManRam
03-27-2013, 03:40 PM
Only a matter of time 'til he topples Jordan.

ManRam
03-27-2013, 03:46 PM
there's nothing wrong with Kobe Bryants scoring efficiency. To date he has a higher career TS% than Wilt, Tim Duncan, Hakeem, and other all-time greats.

kobes lack of career scoring efficiency has been exaggerated. a career TS% of .555 is nothing to be ashamed about. Many all-time greats surpass it, many don't.

TS% is interesting when comparing players who play such drastically different positions, especially because of the FT and 3 Point factors (FTs being a bigger reason, and that's why they'll all best Kobe in eFG%). How they go about scoring and being efficient is so different. While the goal of TS% and eFG% is to help compare across positions, it can be a bit misleading. Compare Kobe to the great perimeter scorers and that's where this perception (misconception?) that he's wildly inefficient.

I do agree that his efficiency woes are generally overblown, and 55.5% is really solid considering HOW he generally goes about scoring. But some of the knocks certainly are true...but again, people do get carried away.

king4day
03-27-2013, 03:46 PM
Misleading title. When he actually does break it, I won't be the one to close the new thread someone makes for the same topic.

EDIT: I just altered the title to say 'will pass'

MetroMan
03-27-2013, 04:35 PM
Misleading title. When he actually does break it, I won't be the one to close the new thread someone makes for the same topic.

EDIT: I just altered the title to say 'will pass'

Fair enough.

KnicksorBust
03-27-2013, 04:44 PM
there's nothing wrong with Kobe Bryants scoring efficiency. To date he has a higher career TS% than Wilt, Tim Duncan, Hakeem, and other all-time greats.

kobes lack of career scoring efficiency has been exaggerated. a career TS% of .555 is nothing to be ashamed about. Many all-time greats surpass it, many don't.

Kobe can get lumped in with players like Iverson when really it's not a fair comparison. I'm glad you made this post.


Because "negative" milestones aren't spoken about very much?

Why do people only talk about how great Magic was but fail to mention how he lost 4 times in the finals? Or how Jordan wasn't too successful until Pippen showed up?

These things really aren't too difficult to understand, but all of a sudden are insurmountable tasks for people as narrow-minded and downright idiotic when it comes to situations such as these.

You're an idiot, and you show it each and every time you post.

Your post should have ended at the bold.

ThunderousDemon
03-27-2013, 05:08 PM
The Lakers might not get anywhere this year, but at the very least Kobe can break another record before he retires.

Chronz
03-27-2013, 05:14 PM
Immortal Longevity for the win.

PS How come these threads arent made when Kobe passes someone in FGA? Im assuming he passed Wilt in this a long time ago.

Because "negative" milestones aren't spoken about very much?

Why do people only talk about how great Magic was but fail to mention how he lost 4 times in the finals? Or how Jordan wasn't too successful until Pippen showed up?

These things really aren't too difficult to understand, but all of a sudden are insurmountable tasks for people as narrow-minded and downright idiotic when it comes to situations such as these.

You're an idiot, and you show it each and every time you post.
Nothing idiotic about it, I'm just wired differently, you should be able to take the good with the bad, or at the least mention it in the very thread, it provides additional context.

Tragic Johnson has been discussed plenty back when it was relevant so I don't know why you mentioned that unless you think I just made up his one time nickname, just like many other negative pts have come up about other stars.

Try again flamer

rockbottom2010
03-27-2013, 05:15 PM
this is old news

Chronz
03-27-2013, 05:31 PM
I guess the question I should have asked is, what is the point of these threads? To say cool? If we aren't comparing or analyzing **** I just don't see the purpose. If that makes me an idiot so be it, but every single one of these threads has people dating the same thing.


LONGEVITY

KnicksorBust
03-27-2013, 05:37 PM
I guess the question I should have asked is, what is the point of these threads? To say cool? If we aren't comparing or analyzing **** I just don't see the purpose. If that makes me an idiot so be it, but every single one of these threads has people dating the same thing.


LONGEVITY

Because it's historic? Because passing Wilt Chamberlain on the all-time scoring list is a pretty damn hard thing to do? Once you get this close to an immortal record (scoring/assists/etc.) then it should be celebrated. The only records that irritate me are the "Fastest to x amount of y" because whose to say if the player will even crack the top 50 when their careers is over.

And to say we aren't comparing or analyzing isn't true when you yourself provoked a discussion of Kobe vs. Wilt FGA attempts that led to Bruno's post about Kobe's effeciency.

Tony_Starks
03-27-2013, 06:20 PM
The only question I have is will he pass MJ? If he stuck around a few more seasons he could easily but it's looking more and more like next year might be it....

jayjay33
03-27-2013, 06:34 PM
Efficiency means nothing to Kobe or his fans. They don't focus on things like FGA. So the man will pass up Wilt and history will be made whether he does it with the next 20 baskets or the next 100 baskets. Long live the Mamba



Nope it just means to much to people like you. lol

Hawkeye15
03-27-2013, 07:39 PM
622 FGAs ago. So say two or three months ago. not that surprising considering the TS% comparison.

well, its expected since Wilt had so many more attempts at the rim. Of course it was going to take Kobe more attempts.

His longevity is unreal to me. How he has been able to play at a top 2-5 player level for 14 years is unreal.

CityofTreez
03-27-2013, 07:43 PM
The only question I have is will he pass MJ? If he stuck around a few more seasons he could easily but it's looking more and more like next year might be it....

Yeah right, he has 2-3 years left with that shot.

He won't pass it though.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-27-2013, 07:44 PM
Nothing idiotic about it, I'm just wired differently, you should be able to take the good with the bad, or at the least mention it in the very thread, it provides additional context.

Tragic Johnson has been discussed plenty back when it was relevant so I don't know why you mentioned that unless you think I just made up his one time nickname, just like many other negative pts have come up about other stars.

Try again flamer

you gayist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p

KnicksorBust
03-27-2013, 07:44 PM
well, its expected since Wilt had so many more attempts at the rim. Of course it was going to take Kobe more attempts.

His longevity is unreal to me. How he has been able to play at a top 2-5 player level for 14 years is unreal.

x100 even though you had to be a dick and say top 2-5 instead of just top 5. :)

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-27-2013, 07:45 PM
well, its expected since Wilt had so many more attempts at the rim. Of course it was going to take Kobe more attempts.

His longevity is unreal to me. How he has been able to play at a top 2-5 player level for 14 years is unreal.

lol Hawk, I like how you snuck in a minijab 2-5. Kobe has without a doubt been the best player in the league for at least 4 seasons altogether. Great post otherwise.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-27-2013, 07:46 PM
x100 even though you had to be a dick and say top 2-5 instead of just top 5. :)

:laugh: Someone else caught it.

Hawkeye15
03-27-2013, 07:49 PM
x100 even though you had to be a dick and say top 2-5 instead of just top 5. :)

yeah yeah lol. I think he had a few seasons where he had a legit claim at being a top 2 player.

Hawkeye15
03-27-2013, 07:50 PM
lol Hawk, I like how you snuck in a minijab 2-5. Kobe has without a doubt been the best player in the league for at least 4 seasons altogether. Great post otherwise.

Man, we went through a thread a while back, and I couldn't pinpoint a single season where I thought he stood out as the best player in the game. That being said, I agreed to disagree with some educated posters who made their case for him over a 3-4 season period. Not enough evidence either way to determine for me personally, but I am not going to kill someone for stating a strong case against mine, in their mind.

Chronz
03-27-2013, 07:53 PM
And to say we aren't comparing or analyzing isn't true when you yourself provoked a discussion of Kobe vs. Wilt FGA attempts that led to Bruno's post about Kobe's effeciency.
Thats my point, I STARTED any sort of comparison. The very act hes insulting is what makes this thread worth discussing imo.

If we are all just saying cool accomplishment then its a pretty stale topic. Thats me tho, you can disagree but out doesn't make me an idiot.

Chronz
03-27-2013, 07:54 PM
Nothing idiotic about it, I'm just wired differently, you should be able to take the good with the bad, or at the least mention it in the very thread, it provides additional context.

Tragic Johnson has been discussed plenty back when it was relevant so I don't know why you mentioned that unless you think I just made up his one time nickname, just like many other negative pts have come up about other stars.

Try again flamer

you gayist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p
Is that really a word

jayjay33
03-27-2013, 07:57 PM
x100 even though you had to be a dick and say top 2-5 instead of just top 5. :)


You knew it was coming. When it comes to Kobe, hawkeye is like X in a math equation. :laugh2:

Hawkeye15
03-27-2013, 07:58 PM
You knew it was coming. When it comes to Kobe, hawkeye is like X in a math equation. :laugh2:

as many said in that thread we did, show me where Kobe was the clear cut best in the game in a single year. I can come up with another player or two that have just as strong of a case.

It doesn't take away from my point. Being a top 5 player for 14 years is ridiculous, no matter where you personally peg them in each year.

Hell, even when I compliment the man I get nitpicked.

jayjay33
03-27-2013, 08:00 PM
:laugh: Someone else caught it.



I think a lot of people caught it, it wasn't that subtle. lol

HouRealCoach
03-27-2013, 08:03 PM
Kobe is a Great

Tony_Starks
03-27-2013, 08:10 PM
Yeah right, he has 2-3 years left with that
shot.

He won't pass it though.

Lol. If you look at his scoring pace he could catch it in 3 seasons easily. My point is I doubt he sticks around that long.

jayjay33
03-27-2013, 08:11 PM
as many said in that thread we did, show me where Kobe was the clear cut best in the game in a single year. I can come up with another player or two that have just as strong of a case.

It doesn't take away from my point. Being a top 5 player for 14 years is ridiculous, no matter where you personally peg them in each year.

Hell, even when I compliment the man I get nitpicked.


it's not about where you rank him. The point is if it wasnt kobe you would not have went out of your way to fire a shot. Like knicksorbust said you would have just said top 5 and left it at that. That was conscious effort at a dis. Also if you think there were players with "just as strong a case". Wouldn't that still give him 1-5? Unless there was a definitive better player shouldn't you include the 1 spot? lol


No big deal, I know how you do, with kobe. Just a little food for thought. lol

KnicksorBust
03-27-2013, 08:14 PM
Thats my point, I STARTED any sort of comparison. The very act hes insulting is what makes this thread worth discussing imo.

If we are all just saying cool accomplishment then its a pretty stale topic. Thats me tho, you can disagree but out doesn't make me an idiot.

Creating a thread for Dirk passing Patrick Ewing would be stale. A polarizing player like Kobe passing a polarizing player like Wilt for 4th all-time on the all-time scoring list is not. We can re-visit the staleness in the Kobe passes Michael Jordan for 3rd on the all-time scoring list thread.

ztilzer31
03-27-2013, 08:20 PM
Kobe sets records every game.

Literally he sets the record for most missed shots all time every game.

jayjay33
03-27-2013, 08:32 PM
Kobe sets records every game.

Literally he sets the record for most missed shots all time every game.


You can't make a "championship omelette" without breaking a few eggs.

Hawkeye15
03-27-2013, 09:11 PM
it's not about where you rank him. The point is if it wasnt kobe you would not have went out of your way to fire a shot. Like knicksorbust said you would have just said top 5 and left it at that. That was conscious effort at a dis. Also if you think there were players with "just as strong a case". Wouldn't that still give him 1-5? Unless there was a definitive better player shouldn't you include the 1 spot? lol


No big deal, I know how you do, with kobe. Just a little food for thought. lol

I fired a shot? I simply said where I personally ranked him. I stated, I personally never thought he had a clear cut case at being the best player in the game any given year, but I am more than willing to listen to an educated response on why he was, not the people who spew it as fact because they think so or the media told them so.

Again, I give him credit, I still get crapped on. Typical.

Chronz
03-27-2013, 09:14 PM
Creating a thread for Dirk passing Patrick Ewing would be stale. A polarizing player like Kobe passing a polarizing player like Wilt for 4th all-time on the all-time scoring list is not. We can re-visit the staleness in the Kobe passes Michael Jordan for 3rd on the all-time scoring list thread.

Agree to disagree, I find it stale nonetheless. Discussing the ramifications of accomplishments are what Im interseted in, which is why I find these tallies to be pretty mundane. And I would say this for anyone.

I just think these sort of milestones matter more in baseball, here, what would Kobe passing MJ on the scoring list really say? To me it simply says what all the other threads say, LONGEVITY.

Vinylman
03-28-2013, 12:40 AM
meh... not really a big deal passing wilt

only passing KAJ matters

MetroMan
03-28-2013, 01:38 AM
meh... not really a big deal passing wilt

only passing KAJ matters

wrong. try again

MetroMan
03-28-2013, 01:39 AM
kobe needs 35 more points to accomplish this historic feet.

Vinylman
03-28-2013, 01:43 AM
wrong. try again

sorry dude it just isn't ... pass KAJ and it matters... until then he is just another guy who didn't beat the best all time scorer...

In the immortal words of ricky bobby ... it you ain't first you're last

MetroMan
03-28-2013, 01:45 AM
sorry dude it just isn't ... pass KAJ and it matters... until then he is just another guy who didn't beat the best all time scorer...

In the immortal words of ricky bobby ... it you ain't first you're last

lame. try again

Vinylman
03-28-2013, 01:49 AM
lame. try again

solid responses... no different than what i see in the Lakers forum :rolleyes:

while the accomplishment might be noteworthy its about as relevant as Heat fans starting threads on their win streak when they aren't even close to the record...

MetroMan
03-28-2013, 01:51 AM
only difference is kobe is 1 game from it...2 games max. Passing Wilt in scoring is an incredible achievement. Not sure how it isn't in your eyes.

MetroMan
03-28-2013, 01:53 AM
sorry dude it just isn't ... pass KAJ and it matters... until then he is just another guy who didn't beat the best all time scorer...

In the immortal words of ricky bobby ... it you ain't first you're last

by your critical thinking you must think Sam Jones > Jordan

Vinylman
03-28-2013, 01:56 AM
only difference is kobe is 1 game from it...2 games max. Passing Wilt in scoring is an incredible achievement. Not sure how it isn't in your eyes.

meh... when you are a laker fan being 4th in something is not really a big deal... like i said, WHEN he passes KAJ that will be something to talk about until then it is no different than a yankee fan not being impressed when Arod passes willie mays for 4th all time in Hr's

Again, kobe passing Wilt isn't any kind of record

Vinylman
03-28-2013, 01:57 AM
by your critical thinking you must think Sam Jones > Jordan

in terms of championships? Yes

As a player not close

one has nothing to do with the other

In terms of scoring points over a career KAJ is the only relevant milestone...

MetroMan
03-28-2013, 02:04 AM
vinlyman aka Delusionalman


keep hating man. this is basketball not baseball. everyone knows arod been on steroids. everyone knows arod disappears once playoff time comes around. everyone knows arod cant hold kobe jockstrap when it comes to work ethic and desire/ hunger to win. this is where your poor example as to why kobe passing wilt fails. but either way it makes no difference in my life. haters are always gonna hate

Im_in_Mia_bish
03-28-2013, 02:09 AM
metroman are you a lakers fan or a kobe fan? lol and why are you arguing over an opinion that another lakers fan has?
:confused:

Im_in_Mia_bish
03-28-2013, 02:09 AM
Anyways, props on kobe if and when he does this. dudes a straight up baller :)

Vinylman
03-28-2013, 02:21 AM
metroman are you a lakers fan or a kobe fan? lol and why are you arguing over an opinion that another lakers fan has?
:confused:

i am pretty sure he is bipolar...

i am a laker fan and a fan of kobe

but, as a Laker fan i just don't get to excited over a guy becoming the 4th best at something... :D

now if you wanna talk about something impressive about kobe's scoring i would probably focus on the fact that he is averaging more PPG in his 17th season than he has averaged per game over his entire career (27.1 versus 25.5) while shooting a higher percentage than his career average.

That has never happened and will probably never happen again....

MetroMan
03-28-2013, 02:27 AM
i am pretty sure he is bipolar...

i am a laker fan and a fan of kobe

but, as a Laker fan i just don't get to excited over a guy becoming the 4th best at something... :D

now if you wanna talk about something impressive about kobe's scoring i would probably focus on the fact that he is averaging more PPG in his 17th season than he has averaged per game over his entire career (27.1 versus 25.5) while shooting a higher percentage than his career average.

That has never happened and will probably never happen again....

I'm bipolar because i think kobe passing Wilt on the scoring list is impressive?

:laugh:

You are one sad child. news flash to get to 1 you must get to fourth first.

Now go away

mngopher35
03-28-2013, 02:30 AM
i am pretty sure he is bipolar...

i am a laker fan and a fan of kobe

but, as a Laker fan i just don't get to excited over a guy becoming the 4th best at something... :D

now if you wanna talk about something impressive about kobe's scoring i would probably focus on the fact that he is averaging more PPG in his 17th season than he has averaged per game over his entire career (27.1 versus 25.5) while shooting a higher percentage than his career average.

That has never happened and will probably never happen again....

I agree with you for the most part on the thread, but some people want to discuss it so why not let them. As to the more ppg than his average, that is partially due to him coming off the bench his early years too remember. Even so just the fact that in his 17th season he is shooting at one of his most efficient rates while scoring 27ppg is incredible.

The goods
03-28-2013, 03:04 AM
Bird call!!!!!!! Caw caw

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 12:26 PM
Is that really a word

No, Lol

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 12:29 PM
Man, we went through a thread a while back, and I couldn't pinpoint a single season where I thought he stood out as the best player in the game. That being said, I agreed to disagree with some educated posters who made their case for him over a 3-4 season period. Not enough evidence either way to determine for me personally, but I am not going to kill someone for stating a strong case against mine, in their mind.

Come on Hawk, everyone and their mothers knows Kobe was the best player on the planet for at least 3 of his prime years. Who was the best during 05-08 IYO?

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 12:31 PM
You can't make a "championship omelette" without breaking a few eggs.

Nice,lol

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 12:33 PM
you can't make a "championship omelette" without breaking a few eggs.

dp

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 12:35 PM
I fired a shot? I simply said where I personally ranked him. I stated, I personally never thought he had a clear cut case at being the best player in the game any given year, but I am more than willing to listen to an educated response on why he was, not the people who spew it as fact because they think so or the media told them so.

Again, I give him credit, I still get crapped on. Typical.

Hawkeye, Almost every professional analyst in America had Kobe as the best player in the world between 05-09. Do you disagree with all of them?

CityofTreez
03-28-2013, 12:48 PM
Lol. If you look at his scoring pace he could catch it in 3 seasons easily. My point is I doubt he sticks around that long.

That shot will keep him around, but that scoring will significantly decrease.
As much as he has a shot, I just don't see it happening.
But, you may be right about him "calling it quits" sooner rather than later, its just Kobe ****ing Bryant. Being a Kings fan, you just assume he'll continue to torment.

That being said, I did have a problem with MJ coming out of retirement (Washington). He definitely did it for his passion towards basketball, but also his record. I don't despise him for the selfish decision, but I do view his record differently after watching those horrid games with Washington.

Faneik
03-28-2013, 01:02 PM
Hawkeye, Almost every professional analyst in America had Kobe as the best player in the world between 05-09. Do you disagree with all of them?

go check their productivity, what they actually did on the floor

lebron in his 2nd season, produced more than kobe.


Rk Player Season Age FG% 3P% FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Kobe Bryant 2004-05 26 .433 .339 .816 5.9 6.0 1.3 0.8 4.1 2.6 27.6
2 LeBron James 2004-05 20 .472 .351 .750 7.4 7.2 2.2 0.7 3.3 1.8 27.2

Lebron beats kobe in fg and 3pt%'s, rebs, asts, steals, less to's
blks and points are the same

kobe beats lebron in ft%

if you want the advanced, here:

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Kobe Bryant 2004-05 26 66 2689 23.3 .563 .482 4.0 12.4 8.2 28.5 1.7 1.4 14.3 31.7 111 111 7.1 1.0 8.1 .145
2 LeBron James 2004-05 20 80 3388 25.7 .554 .504 3.8 17.0 10.2 32.9 2.8 1.1 11.8 29.7 114 103 9.7 4.6 14.3 .203

lebron at 20 became the better basketball player.

you can't deny facts, their productivity on the floor

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 01:04 PM
go check their productivity, what they actually did on the floor

lebron in his 2nd season, produced more than kobe.


Rk Player Season Age FG% 3P% FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Kobe Bryant 2004-05 26 .433 .339 .816 5.9 6.0 1.3 0.8 4.1 2.6 27.6
2 LeBron James 2004-05 20 .472 .351 .750 7.4 7.2 2.2 0.7 3.3 1.8 27.2

Lebron beats kobe in fg and 3pt%'s, rebs, asts, steals, less to's
blks and points are the same

kobe beats lebron in ft%

if you want the advanced, here:

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Kobe Bryant 2004-05 26 66 2689 23.3 .563 .482 4.0 12.4 8.2 28.5 1.7 1.4 14.3 31.7 111 111 7.1 1.0 8.1 .145
2 LeBron James 2004-05 20 80 3388 25.7 .554 .504 3.8 17.0 10.2 32.9 2.8 1.1 11.8 29.7 114 103 9.7 4.6 14.3 .203

lebron at 20 became the better basketball player.

you can't deny facts, their productivity on the floor

Soooo you're saying Lebron has been the best player in the league since his rookie year?

Faneik
03-28-2013, 01:21 PM
Soooo you're saying Lebron has been the best player in the league since his rookie year?

I clearly said in my previous post, in 2004/5, Lebron's 2nd season he produced more than kobe.

Who was the better player in that season... that's another subject. It's not any of them.

I think it is between Garnett (22/14) or Duncan(20/11).

Faneik
03-28-2013, 01:27 PM
I value efficiency on the floor, you value hero-ball.

That's why in your eyes kobe was the best between 2005-2008

It's the chronical 2 questions: Could kobe average 40 in that period? Probably yes.
Would that mean more victories for the lakers? A sure no.

That's what you fail to understand.

Faneik
03-28-2013, 01:30 PM
Soooo you're saying Lebron has been the best player in the league since his rookie year?

btw,

good try at:
- ignoring their productivity
- implying I said something I clearly didn't

numba1CHANGsta
03-28-2013, 01:38 PM
Well one day im pretty sure LeBron will pass Kobe on the list, but one thing is for certain, a Laker will always be #1 by the name of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar :)

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 01:39 PM
I clearly said in my previous post, in 2004/5, Lebron's 2nd season he produced more than kobe.

Who was the better player in that season... that's another subject. It's not any of them.

I think it is between Garnett (22/14) or Duncan(20/11).

I was talking about 05 and beyond, but your post doesn't mean much. Your posting raw and empty stats. Kobe was a wayyy better defender in those days too.

mngopher35
03-28-2013, 01:44 PM
Come on Hawk, everyone and their mothers knows Kobe was the best player on the planet for at least 3 of his prime years. Who was the best during 05-08 IYO?

I don't disagree that people can think kobe was the best for a 3-4 year stretch but each year there were players who can be argued over him.

05 he was injured and his team didn't make the playoffs so I don't think he's in the convo for best that year (if you need a name, ill say duncan).

06 some people put wade's season over him. The regular season advanced stats are close with kobe have the better raw stats in part because he had to do more (wade was on championship team. The big difference this year is post season where Lakers lost to suns in 7 and kobe didn't play that well. Wade played great in the playoffs, and everyone remembers the finals.

07 Some might say Lebron, but not me. The stats are close again in the regular season between Kobe and Duncan in pretty similar fashion as the year before. I think it is important to note that Duncan was still an elite anchor on defense at this time and that is what really separates the two this year imo. Duncan also had a better playoffs as well. (Note: I know kobe was on bad teams these years and I am not faulting him for that. When I say played better in the playoffs I mean at an individual level, not based on team success. Duncan and wade got rings these years but I am not talking about that, just their individual play).

08 This year many people believe chris paul had the best individual season. Better regular season and post season numbers. Over 20 points and 10 assits, with very good efficiency to go along with great defense.

Over the years you listed each of these players has a pretty strong argument as being the best player that season. I think that Kobe was the best player a year or two but that's probably it. From the time period you mentioned I would say Kobe was the best player but each individual year another player played as good or better if that makes sense. I think to say kobe was never the best player in the nba is going overboard but there are arguments for certain players each year. This does not take anything away from kobe really for me because it is his insane longevity that makes him a top 10 player easily. His prime was great but being a top player for so long and arguably a top 5 player in his 17th year is insane.

Faneik
03-28-2013, 01:47 PM
I was talking about 05 and beyond, but your post doesn't mean much. Your posting raw and empty stats. Kobe was a wayyy better defender in those days too.

If lebron at 20 was already better than Kobe, of course from that point on that remains.

I backed up my post, with facts, their productivity.

You backed your post, with well... your opinion.

PhillyFaninLA
03-28-2013, 01:59 PM
different rules, diiferent level of competition, and Kobe not as well rounded as Wilt...heck of an accomplishment by why do Kobe fans always need to brag like this...it makes me like Kobe less.

Kobe Bryant 1,231 games average 36.6 minutes per game
Wilt Chamberlain 1,045 game average 45.8 minuter per game

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:12 PM
If lebron at 20 was already better than Kobe, of course from that point on that remains.

I backed up my post, with facts, their productivity.

You backed your post, with well... your opinion.

All you did is post raw stats. Kobe was on the both first all nba teams. Lebron wasn't even on the third teams. Kobe was the better player, by a pretty good margin too.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:14 PM
I don't disagree that people can think kobe was the best for a 3-4 year stretch but each year there were players who can be argued over him.

05 he was injured and his team didn't make the playoffs so I don't think he's in the convo for best that year (if you need a name, ill say duncan).

06 some people put wade's season over him. The regular season advanced stats are close with kobe have the better raw stats in part because he had to do more (wade was on championship team. The big difference this year is post season where Lakers lost to suns in 7 and kobe didn't play that well. Wade played great in the playoffs, and everyone remembers the finals.

07 Some might say Lebron, but not me. The stats are close again in the regular season between Kobe and Duncan in pretty similar fashion as the year before. I think it is important to note that Duncan was still an elite anchor on defense at this time and that is what really separates the two this year imo. Duncan also had a better playoffs as well. (Note: I know kobe was on bad teams these years and I am not faulting him for that. When I say played better in the playoffs I mean at an individual level, not based on team success. Duncan and wade got rings these years but I am not talking about that, just their individual play).

08 This year many people believe chris paul had the best individual season. Better regular season and post season numbers. Over 20 points and 10 assits, with very good efficiency to go along with great defense.

Over the years you listed each of these players has a pretty strong argument as being the best player that season. I think that Kobe was the best player a year or two but that's probably it. From the time period you mentioned I would say Kobe was the best player but each individual year another player played as good or better if that makes sense. I think to say kobe was never the best player in the nba is going overboard but there are arguments for certain players each year. This does not take anything away from kobe really for me because it is his insane longevity that makes him a top 10 player easily. His prime was great but being a top player for so long and arguably a top 5 player in his 17th year is insane.

I can agree with most the things you said. Question: How many years do you have Kobe as the best player in the nba? I just find it insane the Hawkeye can really believe in his heart that Kobe was never the best player in the league.

PhillyFaninLA
03-28-2013, 02:14 PM
All you did is post raw stats. Kobe was on the both first all nba teams. Lebron wasn't even on the third teams. Kobe was the better player, by a pretty good margin too.


How is the bolded not an opion? I only ask because you are criticizing another poster for using opion. Better is opinion not fact.

PhillyFaninLA
03-28-2013, 02:17 PM
I can agree with most the things you said. Question: How many years do you have Kobe as the best player in the nba? I just find it insane the Hawkeye can really believe in his heart that Kobe was never the best player in the league.


I think a lot of people agree....early in his career he wasn't the best on his team. Then you had great years from guys like Wade, Duncan, Garnett, etc, then Lebron...and Kobe wasn't really the best player in the league ever but to his credit he was always in the conversation as best player in the league.

Also Kobe is no better then the 4th best Laker of all time. He is great, a hall of famer, but not as great as the Kobe apologizist make him out to be. He is special but take off the blinders for a minute.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 02:25 PM
How is the bolded not an opion? I only ask because you are criticizing another poster for using opion. Better is opinion not fact.
So you're basically saying Lebron was the better player? We both know that's not true.


I think a lot of people agree....early in his career he wasn't the best on his team. Then you had great years from guys like Wade, Duncan, Garnett, etc, then Lebron...and Kobe wasn't really the best player in the league ever but to his credit he was always in the conversation as best player in the league.

Also Kobe is no better then the 4th best Laker of all time. He is great, a hall of famer, but not as great as the Kobe apologizist make him out to be. He is special but take off the blinders for a minute.
So Kobe was never the best player in the league? Lol
Did you really just say Kobe is the 4/5th best Lakers of all time? :puke:

PhillyFaninLA
03-28-2013, 02:38 PM
So you're basically saying Lebron was the better player? We both know that's not true.


So Kobe was never the best player in the league? Lol
Did you really just say Kobe is the 4/5th best Lakers of all time? :puke:


I never mentioned Lebron, I only pointed out that you are using an opinion while critizing someone for using an opinion....way to make stuff up, it adds credibility when you lie and misread in the same spot. (see post 98 that is what he is quoting)


Kobe is not better then Magic, Wilt, Kareem, or Shaq. So he is no better then the 5th best Laker of all time.

mngopher35
03-28-2013, 02:39 PM
I can agree with most the things you said. Question: How many years do you have Kobe as the best player in the nba? I just find it insane the Hawkeye can really believe in his heart that Kobe was never the best player in the league.

See thats the thing, it is hard to pinpoint an individual year. It is much easier for me to say he was the overall best player from 06-08 (possibly expanding a year or so in either way but those years for sure). I think he was the best player in 2006. 2008 it is very close, and even 2009 being close as well with wade and lebron also having amazing years (personally I have lebron 2009, but he is my favorite non minnesota player). I will say for sure one year, and possibly 2 years that I have him as the best. I don't agree with the people who say he was never the best player in the nba for a season, but they do have an argument is what I was trying to show.

ElChinoLatino
03-28-2013, 03:00 PM
Immortal Longevity for the win.

PS How come these threads arent made when Kobe passes someone in FGA? Im assuming he passed Wilt in this a long time ago.

Lol months ago, not that long tbh, but oh well

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 03:08 PM
See thats the thing, it is hard to pinpoint an individual year. It is much easier for me to say he was the overall best player from 06-08 (possibly expanding a year or so in either way but those years for sure). I think he was the best player in 2006. 2008 it is very close, and even 2009 being close as well with wade and lebron also having amazing years (personally I have lebron 2009, but he is my favorite non minnesota player). I will say for sure one year, and possibly 2 years that I have him as the best. I don't agree with the people who say he was never the best player in the nba for a season, but they do have an argument is what I was trying to show.

I can agree on Kobe being the best for 1-2 years and having a very strong case for number one in other years, I just don't agree with people when they say he was never the best player in the league. That is basically what i'm fighting.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 03:10 PM
I never mentioned Lebron, I only pointed out that you are using an opinion while critizing someone for using an opinion....way to make stuff up, it adds credibility when you lie and misread in the same spot. (see post 98 that is what he is quoting)


Kobe is not better then Magic, Wilt, Kareem, or Shaq. So he is no better then the 5th best Laker of all time.

:facepalm: :puke: :punish: You sir have been added to the irrelevant poster list.

ElChinoLatino
03-28-2013, 03:11 PM
You can't make a "championship omelette" without breaking a few eggs.

In this case the whole henhouse in the farm.

jayjay33
03-28-2013, 03:25 PM
I value efficiency on the floor, you value hero-ball.

That's why in your eyes kobe was the best between 2005-2008

It's the chronical 2 questions: Could kobe average 40 in that period? Probably yes.
Would that mean more victories for the lakers? A sure no.

That's what you fail to understand.


Or he values doing what ever it takes to win and you value useless stats.

jayjay33
03-28-2013, 03:33 PM
In this case the whole henhouse in the farm.


OK well, in your opinion how many fga's is a championship worth? My answer is as many as it took. What's your? lol

Faneik
03-28-2013, 03:59 PM
Or he values doing what ever it takes to win and you value useless stats.

If you think not trusting your team-mates the ball, forcing shots, trying fade-away contested 3pt shots is doing what ever it takes to win... then kobe is your guy.

Money_23
03-28-2013, 04:04 PM
If you think not trusting your team-mates the ball, forcing shots, trying fade-away contested 3pt shots is doing what ever it takes to win... then kobe is your guy.

except he got the green light from Phil to takeover every game those seasons because they both know his teammates weren't that useful.

Faneik
03-28-2013, 04:14 PM
except he got the green light from Phil to takeover every game those seasons because they both know his teammates weren't that useful.

some great players can takeover games, by making plays. not just scoring.

that's one ability kobe doesn't have.

still1ballin
03-28-2013, 04:17 PM
Its an amazing feat. Still going strong at age 34 in his 17th season. It will be interesting to see if the young bloods like Lebron, Durant, Cp3, Howard can keep playing at an elite level at age 34+

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 04:36 PM
Its an amazing feat. Still going strong at age 34 in his 17th season. It will be interesting to see if the young bloods like Lebron, Durant, Cp3, Howard can keep playing at an elite level at age 34+

:clap:

younggunn113
03-28-2013, 04:38 PM
Its an amazing feat. Still going strong at age 34 in his 17th season. It will be interesting to see if the young bloods like Lebron, Durant, Cp3, Howard can keep playing at an elite level at age 34+

Blows my mind that someone like Paul Pierce is only a year older. Guy legitimately looks 45 on the court.

5ass
03-28-2013, 04:42 PM
Its an amazing feat. Still going strong at age 34 in his 17th season. It will be interesting to see if the young bloods like Lebron, Durant, Cp3, Howard can keep playing at an elite level at age 34+
It is amazing, but it helps that he stopped playing defense.

jayjay33
03-28-2013, 04:43 PM
If you think not trusting your team-mates the ball, forcing shots, trying fade-away contested 3pt shots is doing what ever it takes to win... then kobe is your guy.


An if you think passing the ball just for the sake of passing it, regardless of who your passing it to. Automatically gives you a better chance to win, then basketball is not your game.

Also, one of the dumbest cliche's is sports is "not-trusting your teams". But you do trust them, you trust them to do what they always do, which is why you don't give it to them. You do what ever you gives you the best chance to win.....period.

Faneik
03-28-2013, 04:58 PM
An if you think passing the ball just for the sake of passing it, regardless of who your passing it to. Automatically gives you a better chance to win, then basketball is not your game.

Also, one of the dumbest cliche's is sports is "not-trusting your teams". But you do trust them, you trust them to do what they always do, which is why you don't give it to them. You do what ever you gives you the best chance to win.....period.

You think hero-ball gives you the best chance to win?

The best thing you can give to a defense is a predictable offense. If you know the guy dribbling the ball will not pass it, can't you realize you can prepare for that?

Faneik
03-28-2013, 05:04 PM
Faneik is one of the worst posters on this site. Don't even pay attention to him/her.

funny how you're the only one who says that about me, and I see multiple posters saying your posts lack reasoning on a daily basis.

it's always: "my franchise better than yours"
"my superstar player is better than yours"
"where I live is nicer where you live"
"+1"
"-1"
"good post"
"terrible post"
"clap"

+1 when is a laker fan, -1 when is a non-laker fan

pathetic

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-28-2013, 05:14 PM
funny how you're the only one who says that about me, and I see multiple posters saying your posts lack reasoning on a daily basis.

it's always: "my franchise better than yours"
"my superstar player is better than yours"
"where I live is nicer where you live"
"+1"
"-1"
"good post"
"terrible post"
"clap"

+1 when is a laker fan, -1 when is a non-laker fan

pathetic

Well two of the top three things are true, Sometimes I'm busy with one of my stores and have no time to write things out, so if someone says what I was going to say +1 it is.

jayjay33
03-28-2013, 06:44 PM
You think hero-ball gives you the best chance to win?


The best thing you can give to a defense is a predictable offense. If you know the guy dribbling the ball will not pass it, can't you realize you can prepare for that?


That depends on the hero and his teammates. I think kobe's play gave him the best chance to win, which is why he has won so much. Apparently you think all teammates are created equal.

You know what else defense's like? leaving guys they know aren't gonna make the shot open. For example if you were kobe, easily baiting you into kicking to smush parker for three would be much better for the defense than you taking a fade-away.


Now kobe does take bad shots, but rarely do I see him take a bad shot, when a pass had a "better" chance of leading to a basket.

MetroMan
03-28-2013, 07:01 PM
I'll take hero ball instead of scared ball

Tony_Starks
03-28-2013, 07:03 PM
You think hero-ball gives you the best chance to win?

The best thing you can give to a defense is a predictable offense. If you know the guy dribbling the ball will not pass it, can't you realize you can prepare for that?


You are aware that Kobe is tied for highest assist avg for a shooting guard this season right? Him and James Harden both average 6 assist/game yet Harden gets praised for being a "scorer and a playmaker" but Kobe is just a ball hog.

Interesting how that works...

Faneik
03-28-2013, 08:41 PM
You are aware that Kobe is tied for highest assist avg for a shooting guard this season right? Him and James Harden both average 6 assist/game yet Harden gets praised for being a "scorer and a playmaker" but Kobe is just a ball hog.

Interesting how that works...

I'm aware of that. Lakers have so many offensive weapons this year, that he is not so reluctant to pass the ball.

Regarding his career averages, he has 1 more assist but also 1 more fg attempted and 1 turnover.

He is trying to do too much. Not enough plays for the other stars, who are getting frustrated. Dwight publicly said it.

Don't get me wrong, I admire his skill, tenacity, work ethic, durability, all that stuff.

I just think his hero-ball, sometimes hurts the team.

MetroMan
03-28-2013, 10:22 PM
4 more points

still1ballin
03-28-2013, 11:45 PM
4 more points

torocan
03-29-2013, 01:02 AM
Kobe's career has been amazing, but it has nothing to do with Wilt and honestly shouldn't be compared.

Kobe's in his 17th season, Wilt played 16 seasons. Wilt played more minutes (47,859 vs 45,035), Kobe took 600+ more shot attempts (23,497 vs 24140).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html

Kobe played in the post-3 point era, Wilt played in an era where there were no 3-pointers.

Just for some perspective, Kobe has shot 1629 x 3-point shots according to the last update from Basketball reference. So, take off 1629 points... or some fraction if you assume that he would be taking different shots.

In other words, it's awful hard to compare them. It's one of those artificial markers that the media and the league like to wave around.

It doesn't take away from Kobe's amazing career... it's just not that big a deal other than to say Kobe's been very good for a very long time.

MetroMan
03-29-2013, 02:55 AM
Kobe's career has been amazing, but it has nothing to do with Wilt and honestly shouldn't be compared.

Kobe's in his 17th season, Wilt played 16 seasons. Wilt played more minutes (47,859 vs 45,035), Kobe took 600+ more shot attempts (23,497 vs 24140).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html

Kobe played in the post-3 point era, Wilt played in an era where there were no 3-pointers.

Just for some perspective, Kobe has shot 1629 x 3-point shots according to the last update from Basketball reference. So, take off 1629 points... or some fraction if you assume that he would be taking different shots.

In other words, it's awful hard to compare them. It's one of those artificial markers that the media and the league like to wave around.

It doesn't take away from Kobe's amazing career... it's just not that big a deal other than to say Kobe's been very good for a very long time.

most ridiculous argument Iv seen here. are you saying Wilt would have been popping threes? ahahahahahaha

MetroMan
03-29-2013, 02:58 AM
Kobe's career has been amazing, but it has nothing to do with Wilt and honestly shouldn't be compared.

Kobe's in his 17th season, Wilt played 16 seasons. Wilt played more minutes (47,859 vs 45,035), Kobe took 600+ more shot attempts (23,497 vs 24140).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html

Kobe played in the post-3 point era, Wilt played in an era where there were no 3-pointers.

Just for some perspective, Kobe has shot 1629 x 3-point shots according to the last update from Basketball reference. So, take off 1629 points... or some fraction if you assume that he would be taking different shots.

In other words, it's awful hard to compare them. It's one of those artificial markers that the media and the league like to wave around.

It doesn't take away from Kobe's amazing career... it's just not that big a deal other than to say Kobe's been very good for a very long time.

most ridiculous argument Iv seen here. are you saying Wilt would have been popping threes? ahahahahahaha

Wilt played in the league when goaltending was legal.... he did it many, many times that the goaltending rule was created just because oh him doing it so damn much

asandhu23
03-29-2013, 03:02 AM
most ridiculous argument Iv seen here. are you saying Wilt would have been popping threes? ahahahahahaha

Wilt played in the league when goaltending was legal.... he did it many, many times

In his earlier career, yes. Then they changed all sorts of rules because of him. Even changed the length of free throw area so he wouldn't jump up and throw it down.

Bruno
03-29-2013, 03:08 AM
Kobe's career has been amazing, but it has nothing to do with Wilt and honestly shouldn't be compared.

Kobe's in his 17th season, Wilt played 16 seasons. Wilt played more minutes (47,859 vs 45,035), Kobe took 600+ more shot attempts (23,497 vs 24140).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html

Kobe played in the post-3 point era, Wilt played in an era where there were no 3-pointers.

Just for some perspective, Kobe has shot 1629 x 3-point shots according to the last update from Basketball reference. So, take off 1629 points... or some fraction if you assume that he would be taking different shots.

In other words, it's awful hard to compare them. It's one of those artificial markers that the media and the league like to wave around.

It doesn't take away from Kobe's amazing career... it's just not that big a deal other than to say Kobe's been very good for a very long time.
i think he could have scored more points. he would have shot a higher career FG% (closer to 48%) and those shots on the arc would have just been taken closer to the basket, or made up for at the free-thrown line from attacking the basket.

MetroMan
03-29-2013, 03:17 AM
In his earlier career, yes. Then they changed all sorts of rules because of him. Even changed the length of free throw area so he wouldn't jump up and throw it down.

correct, also

Wilt was such a ball hog that during his 100 point game, despite being up by over 20 his teammates kept on intentionally fouling the knickerbockers so Wilt would save a ton of time so he can score more. NY even turned the ball over on purpose so he can score.

that is why Kobe's 81>>>>>>>>>Wilt's 100

Chronz
03-29-2013, 03:18 AM
In his earlier career, yes. Then they changed all sorts of rules because of him. Even changed the length of free throw area so he wouldn't jump up and throw it down.

huh?

U talking about the widening of the lane or the outlawed dunk free throws?

MetroMan
03-29-2013, 03:19 AM
huh?

wilt use to just throw an alley oop of the backboard from the free throw line to himself

Chronz
03-29-2013, 03:22 AM
wilt use to just throw an alley oop of the backboard from the free throw line to himself

When? Where? Globetrotters?

jayjay33
03-29-2013, 04:54 AM
Kobe's career has been amazing, but it has nothing to do with Wilt and honestly shouldn't be compared.

Kobe's in his 17th season, Wilt played 16 seasons. Wilt played more minutes (47,859 vs 45,035), Kobe took 600+ more shot attempts (23,497 vs 24140).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html

Kobe played in the post-3 point era, Wilt played in an era where there were no 3-pointers.

Just for some perspective, Kobe has shot 1629 x 3-point shots according to the last update from Basketball reference. So, take off 1629 points... or some fraction if you assume that he would be taking different shots.

In other words, it's awful hard to compare them. It's one of those artificial markers that the media and the league like to wave around.

It doesn't take away from Kobe's amazing career... it's just not that big a deal other than to say Kobe's been very good for a very long time.



1. Wilt's not shooting 3's regardless so there's no reason to take of points for 3's Kobe shot. But I tell you what, if you want add a point for every shot from 3 point distance wilt made. Lol


2. What difference does it make who took more shots or who played longer. How does that even matter. Your making excuses like it's a comparison .


3. It's not a comparison it's a record. it doesn't mean better or worse. It just means he past wilt in the record book.

jayjay33
03-29-2013, 04:57 AM
Kobe's career has been amazing, but it has nothing to do with Wilt and honestly shouldn't be compared.

Kobe's in his 17th season, Wilt played 16 seasons. Wilt played more minutes (47,859 vs 45,035), Kobe took 600+ more shot attempts (23,497 vs 24140).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html

Kobe played in the post-3 point era, Wilt played in an era where there were no 3-pointers.

Just for some perspective, Kobe has shot 1629 x 3-point shots according to the last update from Basketball reference. So, take off 1629 points... or some fraction if you assume that he would be taking different shots.

In other words, it's awful hard to compare them. It's one of those artificial markers that the media and the league like to wave around.

It doesn't take away from Kobe's amazing career... it's just not that big a deal other than to say Kobe's been very good for a very long time.
i think he could have scored more points. he would have shot a higher career FG% (closer to 48%) and those shots on the arc would have just been taken closer to the basket, or made up for at the free-thrown line from attacking the basket.

Pretty much everybody on the list could have scored more points. Why does that matter?

jayjay33
03-29-2013, 05:06 AM
Congrats on being the highest-scoring rapist in NBA history.

What word starts with "N" and ends with "R" that you never want to call a black person?

"Neighbor..."

Just curious, do those white sheets you guys were come in different sizes? Or is it one size fits all?

ztilzer31
03-29-2013, 05:42 AM
Take the any above average SG and have him take as many shots as Kobe, and he'll break records. Good and bad. Just like Kobe does.

MetroMan
03-29-2013, 06:06 AM
Take the any above average SG and have him take as many shots as Kobe, and he'll break records. Good and bad. Just like Kobe does.

Another blind bafoon hater. So why don't they tough guy?

PhillyFaninLA
03-29-2013, 07:07 AM
:facepalm: :puke: :punish: You sir have been added to the irrelevant poster list.

You defend your view and I don't understand and accept views other than my own so I'm going to call you irrelevant. Rahter than refute you like a man I'm going to cry in the corner and type tough on the internet.

You start things, hide from points, or ignore them, you take an approach that you agree with me or you are an idiot..your kind of sad and I'm glad to be on your irrelevant list and I hope you are sterile.

PhillyFaninLA
03-29-2013, 07:08 AM
I just want to point out to the blind Kobe lovers (and again as I've said he is great)

KOBE IS NOT A DIETY, DO NOT TREAT HIM LIKE ONE

Dankster
03-29-2013, 08:46 AM
It's a very impressive record, no doubt.

Had Wilt come straight out of high school (ala Kobe) to the pros and bypassed his time at Kansas and with the Globetrotters, who knows what his career stats would've ended up looking like.

It's an amazing feat that Mamba is accomplishing, to be this good for so long and be able to avoid the injury bug for such a long career is very lucky and impressive.

ElChinoLatino
03-29-2013, 10:53 AM
OK well, in your opinion how many fga's is a championship worth? My answer is as many as it took. What's your? lol

My answer is as many as efficiently as possible, also known as, making more by shooting less or not-hero ball. Lol.

ElChinoLatino
03-29-2013, 11:08 AM
Another blind bafoon hater. So why don't they tough guy?

Because they play with their respective teams as a team. They understand that chucking the ball hurts the team overall.

Faneik
03-29-2013, 11:40 AM
To the posters who called me a fool for disliking heroball:

Did you enjoy the last 6 mins of the bucks game?

Hero-ball not so appealing, when those 3's aren't falling huh?

Bucks big men in foul trouble, and the hero shooting 3's...Nice!

farren.louis
03-29-2013, 12:01 PM
Kobe is Great, but he isnt one of the greatest all time like top 10.
1Jordan
2Wilt
3Shaq
4Kareem
5hakeem
6Magic
7.Oscar
8Duncan
9.russel
10.bird
11. barkely
12.Kobe

Go is a great player, but his leadership is dead.

CityofTreez
03-29-2013, 01:59 PM
To the posters who called me a fool for disliking heroball:

Did you enjoy the last 6 mins of the bucks game?

Hero-ball not so appealing, when those 3's aren't falling huh?

Bucks big men in foul trouble, and the hero shooting 3's...Nice!

I love how they reference: "I'll take hero ball over scared ball"
Yet, hero ball rarely equates to being a hero.

My family are Laker fans, and its always the same ****.
They complain, but cheer for the 4th quarter chuck fest, its vibrantly showing its true color this year especially.

MaloDaw9
03-29-2013, 02:17 PM
Take the any above average SG and have him take as many shots as Kobe, and he'll break records. Good and bad. Just like Kobe does.

Spoken like a person who knows absolutely nothing about basketball.

Your the guy who master baits and trolls then reports the people who respond..lol

I get it.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-29-2013, 02:19 PM
i think he could have scored more points. he would have shot a higher career FG% (closer to 48%) and those shots on the arc would have just been taken closer to the basket, or made up for at the free-thrown line from attacking the basket.
Correct.

correct, also

Wilt was such a ball hog that during his 100 point game, despite being up by over 20 his teammates kept on intentionally fouling the knickerbockers so Wilt would save a ton of time so he can score more. NY even turned the ball over on purpose so he can score.

that is why Kobe's 81>>>>>>>>>Wilt's 100
Yup.

1. Wilt's not shooting 3's regardless so there's no reason to take of points for 3's Kobe shot. But I tell you what, if you want add a point for every shot from 3 point distance wilt made. Lol


2. What difference does it make who took more shots or who played longer. How does that even matter. Your making excuses like it's a comparison .


3. It's not a comparison it's a record. it doesn't mean better or worse. It just means he past wilt in the record book.His post was awful.


Just curious, do those white sheets you guys were come in different sizes? Or is it one size fits all?Lol what a racist punk he is.


Another blind bafoon hater. So why don't they tough guy? Psd Ftw


You defend your view and I don't understand and accept views other than my own so I'm going to call you irrelevant. Rahter than refute you like a man I'm going to cry in the corner and type tough on the internet.

You start things, hide from points, or ignore them, you take an approach that you agree with me or you are an idiot..your kind of sad and I'm glad to be on your irrelevant list and I hope you are sterile.
If you have Kobe as the Number five Laker of all time, you don't deserve a reply so this is the last one.


Kobe is Great, but he isnt one of the greatest all time like top 10.
1Jordan
2Wilt
3Shaq
4Kareem
5hakeem
6Magic
7.Oscar
8Duncan
9.russel
10.bird
11. barkely
12.Kobe

Go is a great player, but his leadership is dead.

Omfg. Worst list I've ever seen in my life.

MaloDaw9
03-29-2013, 02:24 PM
I love how they reference: "I'll take hero ball over scared ball"
Yet, hero ball rarely equates to being a hero.

My family are Laker fans, and its always the same ****.
They complain, but cheer for the 4th quarter chuck fest, its vibrantly showing its true color this year especially.

The real question is why the **** do you care? Laker fans love Kobe, he's a living legend. Deal with it.

PhillyFaninLA
03-29-2013, 02:42 PM
Correct.

Yup.
His post was awful.

Lol what a racist punk he is.

Psd Ftw


If you have Kobe as the Number five Laker of all time, you don't deserve a reply so this is the last one.



Omfg. Worst list I've ever seen in my life.


If you put me on your "irrelevant list" like you said to in your last email why was I worth replying to here?

ANd again to all those that didn't see my other post I think Magic, Kareem, Wilt, and Shq are better Lakers then Kobe so that makes him 5th.

He115ing
03-29-2013, 02:57 PM
I see Sooooo many hater's; and that's fine, some people luv LaQueen James and other's Love the Mamba. No matter who your team is, & who your guy is, you still gotta Respect! Greatness no matter who it is. I've been a Laker fan since 79', I can't stand Boston, San Antionio Sperms, and the put-together Heat.
I CAN'T STAND Duncan, I mean CAN'T STAND HIM, but when he retire's I will give him his credit; The best Power Forward ever. My Point is...if you can't stand Kobe, or you Love Him, he's probably top 4 or 5 of all time when he finially hangs it up.

back up account?

albertajaysfan
03-29-2013, 03:54 PM
most ridiculous argument Iv seen here. are you saying Wilt would have been popping threes? ahahahahahaha

Pretty sure he is pointing out they played in different eras. Using the introduction of the 3-point line as a dividing line because of how it changed the game.

In the context of his argument it makes total sense. Comparing Kobe and Wilt is ridiculous. However I don't think anyone was doing such a thing in this thread either.

Kobe passing Wilt is still an amazing accomplishment and illustrates his longevity above all else.

albertajaysfan
03-29-2013, 03:56 PM
If you put me on your "irrelevant list" like you said to in your last email why was I worth replying to here?

ANd again to all those that didn't see my other post I think Magic, Kareem, Wilt, and Shq are better Lakers then Kobe so that makes him 5th.

When considering who the best Laker was though does change the order. I would have to check numbers while some of those guys played as Lakers to be sure. However I doubt Kobe would be #1 Laker.

Edit: After reviewing the numbers Wilt being in the discussion of best Lakers is absurd. He didn't play there long enough. He was a great player who played for the Lakers.

Kobe falls in the top three with Magic and Kareem.

ElChinoLatino
03-29-2013, 04:50 PM
Once again, this is why you a are a joke poster.

Lol do you ever post anything other than opinions?

rangersfan
03-29-2013, 07:31 PM
Laker fans love Kobe, he's a living legend. Deal with it.

Sometimes he loves them back too hard, esp. white chicks.

Hawkeye15
03-29-2013, 07:38 PM
Hawkeye, Almost every professional analyst in America had Kobe as the best player in the world between 05-09. Do you disagree with all of them?

Yes, I do.

2005- Kobe has his case, but his team sucks.
2006- Wade
2007- Dirk
2008- Paul/LeBron
2009- LeBron
2010- LeBron
2011- LeBron
2012- LeBron
2013- LeBron

Teeboy1487
03-29-2013, 07:47 PM
Yes, I do.

2005- Kobe
2006- Kobe
2007- Kobe
2008- Kobe
2009- Kobe/Lebron
2010- LeBron
2011- LeBron
2012- LeBron
2013- LeBron

Fixed. This is my opinion bro.

Chronz
03-29-2013, 08:06 PM
Yes, I do.

2005- Kobe has his case, but his team sucks.
2006- Wade
2007- Dirk
2008- Paul/LeBron
2009- LeBron
2010- LeBron
2011- LeBron
2012- LeBron
2013- LeBron

Kobe had absolute no case in 2005.

Chronz
03-29-2013, 08:08 PM
Fixed. This is my opinion bro.

Your pretty much destroying your credibility.


Make the case that Kobe was even top-5 in 2005, let alone its best player.

Teeboy1487
03-29-2013, 08:17 PM
Your pretty much destroying your credibility.


Make the case that Kobe was even top-5 in 2005, let alone its best player.

I'm destroying my credibility because of one year I thought Kobe was arguably the best player in the league? I guess eveyone has to agree with you huh? Don't flatter yourself.

Chronz
03-29-2013, 08:26 PM
I'm destroying my credibility because of one year I thought Kobe was arguably the best player in the league?
Arguably? Its not even close to arguable, its incomprehensible.

Go ahead and try to argue it.



I guess eveyone has to agree with you huh? Don't flatter yourself.
Nope, I disagreed with plenty of lists, I only say that when someone says something so unrealistic and so unfathomably insupportable.

I dare you to make the case, notice the lack of objective or subjective evidence. There is literally NOTHING to support your opinion.

Chronz
03-29-2013, 08:26 PM
double penetration

Tony_Starks
03-29-2013, 08:44 PM
So Kobe wasn't the best player in the league the season he scored 81 points and singlehandedly took a garbage team to the playoffs?

Oh wait his teams record wasn't that good, so he couldn't possibly have been the best player. I get it.

Chronz
03-29-2013, 08:46 PM
So Kobe wasn't the best player in the league the season he scored 81 points and singlehandedly took a garbage team to the playoffs?

Oh wait his teams record wasn't that good, so he couldn't possibly have been the best player. I get it.

Who are you talking to? It would help to quote them.

Tony_Starks
03-29-2013, 08:48 PM
Yes, I do.

2005- Kobe has his case, but his team sucks.
2006- Wade
2007- Dirk
2008- Paul/LeBron
2009- LeBron
2010- LeBron
2011- LeBron
2012- LeBron
2013- LeBron

I know of your well documented hatred for Kobe but not even giving him consideration in his back to back finals years, including a MVP season, is a bit much even for you my good fellow!

Tony_Starks
03-29-2013, 08:49 PM
Who are you talking to? It would help to quote them.

I was referring to Hawks list...

Hawkeye15
03-29-2013, 08:51 PM
Kobe had absolute no case in 2005.

his stats were awesome, but yes, I agree he really had no case. I actually confused his 35 ppg year with 2006, thought it was 2005. So no, he had no chance.

Purple_n_Gold
03-29-2013, 08:52 PM
Mods can be trolls too. Pay them no mind.

Hawkeye15
03-29-2013, 08:52 PM
I know of your well documented hatred for Kobe but not even giving him consideration in his back to back finals years, including a MVP season, is a bit much even for you my good fellow!

Instead of attacking me as a Kobe hater, make a case. That is what I don't get about Kobe fans. They can't make a sold, win me over case, they just call me a hater for not agreeing.

When, in his career, was Kobe the best player in the NBA? Show me, instead of calling me names.

Faneik
03-29-2013, 08:57 PM
Yes, I do.

2005- Kobe has his case, but his team sucks.
2006- Wade
2007- Dirk
2008- Paul/LeBron
2009- LeBron
2010- LeBron
2011- LeBron
2012- LeBron
2013- LeBron

2005- Garnett
2006- Dirk
2007- Wade
2008- LeBron
2009- LeBron
2010- LeBron
2011- LeBron
2012- LeBron
2013- LeBron

Purple_n_Gold
03-29-2013, 09:04 PM
Instead of attacking me as a Kobe hater, make a case. That is what I don't get about Kobe fans. They can't make a sold, win me over case, they just call me a hater for not agreeing.

When, in his career, was Kobe the best player in the NBA? Show me, instead of calling me names.
Nobody on here is qualified on here to show you. Go find nba execs or actual NBA players who will tell you when he was the best. If you think looking up Wikipedia for stats tells the whole story than you need to reevaluate your thinking. I think people who actually do this for a living or actually have played in the NBA know more than a troll mod from psd.

Hawkeye15
03-29-2013, 09:10 PM
Nobody on here is qualified on here to show you. Go find nba execs or actual NBA players who will tell you when he was the best. If you think looking up Wikipedia for stats tells the whole story than you need to reevaluate your thinking. I think people who actually do this for a living or actually have played in the NBA know more than a troll mod from psd.

The same execs who continually vote Kobe as the most clutch player, despite evidence presented that the theory is pure crap?

I get that Kobe fans want to use other people's opinions to validate, versus actually digging in, which doesn't paint the same picture.

My response remains the same. Instead of calling me a hater, show me why. I don't see it. Never have. Top 5 player for 15 years? Yes. Best at any given point? I don't see it.

Purple_n_Gold
03-29-2013, 09:19 PM
Forget the execs. NBA players. No one has to show you anything your opinion is your opinion. Why would someone waste time trying to prove something to you? For what? No. One has much respect for you not even fellow mods they even call you a troll. If you think you are smarter than an NBA executive than you must have your psd mod monitor armband on too tight. Most clutch is purely an opinion if you didn't know there are way too many intangibles to actually have a definite answer on that. And before you ask no im not going to prove it to you. If you Cant understand that statement yourself that is your problem. They voted KoBe. So? That obviously gets under your skin. Why?

Tony_Starks
03-29-2013, 09:19 PM
Instead of attacking me as a Kobe hater,
make a case. That is what I don't get about Kobe fans. They can't make a sold, win me over case, they just call me a hater for not agreeing.

When, in his career, was Kobe the best player in the NBA? Show me, instead of calling me names.

In '08 he put up 28 6 5, team had the best record in the west, was player of the week and month multiple times, all defense, and went on to carry his team to a ring and finals MVP. I'm not sure what more proof you need. Those are facts.

Also you have Lebron as MVP in '08 and he actually finished 4th in voting that year. His stats were amazing but his team only won 45 games in a weak east.

So by your logic Kobe should be in MVP consideration the year he put up 35 a night and was torching the league. His team had 45 wins, just like your '08 Lebron, except it was in a stacked West and Kwame Brown and Smush were starters instead of Mo Williams and Varejoa.....

Purple_n_Gold
03-29-2013, 09:25 PM
In '08 he put up 28 6 5, team had the best record in the west, was player of the week and month multiple times, all defense, and went on to carry his team to a ring and finals MVP. I'm not sure what more proof you need. Those are facts.

Also you have Lebron as MVP in '08 and he actually finished 4th in voting that year. His stats were amazing but his team only won 45 games in a weak east.

So by your logic Kobe should be in MVP consideration the year he put up 35 a night and was torching the league. His team had 45 wins, just like your '08 Lebron, except it was in a stacked West and Kwame Brown and Smush were starters instead of Mo Williams and Varejoa.....
Don't bother with this guy man. He is "digging in" which means his opinion matters. He doesn't have the mental aptitude to realize that stats are not the end all be all. It's ok though at the end of the day he can't change what's done. Maybe he will hold a rally at the HOF induction.

Purple_n_Gold
03-29-2013, 09:27 PM
I'm a Lakers fan too boy. Not a kobe fan. If he left tomorrow I wouldn't root for him. A laker fan for all my life. I just get tired of your bias ignorant comments on here and really can't believe you are a mod.

Hawkeye15
03-29-2013, 09:32 PM
Forget the execs. NBA players. No one has to show you anything your opinion is your opinion. Why would someone waste time trying to prove something to you? For what? No. One has much respect for you not even fellow mods they even call you a troll. If you think you are smarter than an NBA executive than you must have your psd mod monitor armband on too tight. Most clutch is purely an opinion if you didn't know there are way too many intangibles to actually have a definite answer on that. And before you ask no im not going to prove it to you. If you Cant understand that statement yourself that is your problem. They voted KoBe. So? That obviously gets under your skin. Why?

waste time? Please. I simply haven't been given a case outside a few actual rational Laker/Kobe fans on why I should change my opinion. Your little stabs make no difference.

Trolling? haha. Ok bud.

mngopher35
03-29-2013, 09:33 PM
In '08 he put up 28 6 5, team had the best record in the west, was player of the week and month multiple times, all defense, and went on to carry his team to a ring and finals MVP. I'm not sure what more proof you need. Those are facts.

Also you have Lebron as MVP in '08 and he actually finished 4th in voting that year. His stats were amazing but his team only won 45 games in a weak east.

So by your logic Kobe should be in MVP consideration the year he put up 35 a night and was torching the league. His team had 45 wins, just like your '08 Lebron, except it was in a stacked West and Kwame Brown and Smush were starters instead of Mo Williams and Varejoa.....

Kobe didn't win a ring or finals mvp in 2008, but I agree about it not being Lebron either. CP3 had an amazing year too though.

Hawkeye15
03-29-2013, 09:33 PM
In '08 he put up 28 6 5, team had the best record in the west, was player of the week and month multiple times, all defense, and went on to carry his team to a ring and finals MVP. I'm not sure what more proof you need. Those are facts.

Also you have Lebron as MVP in '08 and he actually finished 4th in voting that year. His stats were amazing but his team only won 45 games in a weak east.

So by your logic Kobe should be in MVP consideration the year he put up 35 a night and was torching the league. His team had 45 wins, just like your '08 Lebron, except it was in a stacked West and Kwame Brown and Smush were starters instead of Mo Williams and Varejoa.....

Kobe's 35-5-5 season is the one I think he has a case. But his team was weak, which just kills his case.

Sactown
03-29-2013, 09:42 PM
Single numbers from 2008 to 2009 Between

Lebron James 66-16 Record
Chris Paul 49-33 Record
Kobe Bryant 65-17 Record

Lebron lead the best team, with Kobe 1 game behind, while CP3's team was almost a 50 win team.. Each player has enough team success to be in the argument

Lebron James RAW STATS 28/7/7 49% shooting
Kobe Bryant RAW STATS 27/5/5 47% shooting
Chris Paul Raw STATS 23/11/5.5 50% shooting

Lebron probably has the best stats followed by CP3 and than Kobe Bryant

ADVANCED STATS:

Lebron PER 31.7 TS% .591 WS/48 .318
CP3 PER 30.0 TS% .599 WS/48 .292
KOBE PER 24.4 TS% .561 WS/48 .206

Lebron has the best advanced stats followed by CP3 and Kobe in last again


I can see people arguing that Chris Pauls team was a 7th seed and should eliminate him from the topic... fine whatever, but Lebrons team had more success, and had a significant statistical edge.

Sactown
03-29-2013, 09:44 PM
Kobe didn't win a ring or finals mvp in 2008, but I agree about it not being Lebron either. CP3 had an amazing year too though.

I think he was talking about 08-09 and not 07-08

Purple_n_Gold
03-29-2013, 09:46 PM
Agree to disagree I guess. I don't know what rational Laker fans would take time digging up stats to prove anything to you. Why would someone care to change your opinion. Your opinion is confined to PSD fame. No one cares about it. I definitely don't care to dig for stats to change your opinion. No one cares about any ones opinion on here. It's become a huge troll site unfortunately. At the end of the day history and people who know more than you and I will decide. If you think stats mean everything then you really need to get your head out of the stats reference and watch more games. Stats are only a piece when it comes to MVP. MVP is not an award for best player in the game either. It is most valuable to their team. Can being double or triple teamed which frees up other players be reflected in the players stats. That's just one example. Agree to disagree though I've already wasted too much time on you.

Sactown
03-29-2013, 09:47 PM
Nobody on here is qualified on here to show you. Go find nba execs or actual NBA players who will tell you when he was the best. If you think looking up Wikipedia for stats tells the whole story than you need to reevaluate your thinking. I think people who actually do this for a living or actually have played in the NBA know more than a troll mod from psd.

Well you would say that about Michael Jordan, but he lead a team that was the worst team in NBA history, also didn't Scottie Pippen say Lebron was the best ever? No... NBA players don't evaluate themselves that well...

Also Ron Artest and Kobe both claimed Brandon Roy was the hardest player they ever guarded.. Guess Brandon Roy was better than Kobe..

Also when you say you don't have to prove anything, you're right... but why log on to this website, where the idea is to argue basketball, and then refuse to argue your point? Kinda stupid right? all he's asking is to back your arguments with facts and make it less subjective.. if you're here to spew your opinion with no factual evidence, doesn't that make you the troll?

Purple_n_Gold
03-29-2013, 09:50 PM
Well you would say that about Michael Jordan, but he lead a team that was the worst team in NBA history, also didn't Scottie Pippen say Lebron was the best ever? No... NBA players don't evaluate themselves that well...

Also Ron Artest and Kobe both claimed Brandon Roy was the hardest player they ever guarded.. Guess Brandon Roy was better than Kobe..

Also when you say you don't have to prove anything, you're right... but why log on to this website, where the idea is to argue basketball, and then refuse to argue your point? Kinda stupid right? all he's asking is to back your arguments with facts and make it less subjective.. if you're here to spew your opinion with no factual evidence, doesn't that make you the troll?
Brandon Roy is the best ever. Yea I'm a troll. Happy? Who are you again. I didn't think my post was talking to you but if you want my attention. You got it. What do you want to know son?

Sactown
03-29-2013, 09:51 PM
Agree to disagree I guess. I don't know what rational Laker fans would take time digging up stats to prove anything to you. Why would someone care to change your opinion. Your opinion is confined to PSD fame. No one cares about it. I definitely don't care to dig for stats to change your opinion. No one cares about any ones opinion on here. It's become a huge troll site unfortunately. At the end of the day history and people who know more than you and I will decide. If you think stats mean everything then you really need to get your head out of the stats reference and watch more games. Stats are only a piece when it comes to MVP. MVP is not an award for best player in the game either. It is most valuable to their team. Can being double or triple teamed which frees up other players be reflected in the players stats. That's just one example. Agree to disagree though I've already wasted too much time on you.

You add to what you say you dislike about this forum.. you claim to not care about anyones opinion, but continue to type up paragraph after paragraph and spend hour after hour on this website.. I care about peoples opinions... or I wouldn't be on here, and the same applies to you regardless of whether you want to admit it..

You laugh at me for proving my argument because I spend the time on finding the numbers... Well what I did was separates me from you... A bad poster who rants about his subjective opinion with nothing to back it and me.. Someone who listens to other peoples arguments, likes to debate, and finds factual backings for my arguments.. I try to clean up the site with knowledgeable posts (to the best of my abilities) while you troll any fan base that disagrees Kobe was ever the most dominate in a single season....

Sactown
03-29-2013, 09:52 PM
Brandon Roy is the best ever. Yea I'm a troll. Happy? Who are you again. I didn't think my post was talking to you but if you want my attention. You got it. What do you want to know son?

Lol the point was to prove that an NBA players evaluation of any other player means nothing... Because they play the game doesn't mean they're an expert at evaluating it...

mngopher35
03-29-2013, 09:57 PM
I think he was talking about 08-09 and not 07-08

Ahh that makes more sense. Then ya Lebron Kobe and cp3 all have an argument but I would take Lebron here as well.

Purple_n_Gold
03-29-2013, 09:57 PM
You are very smart. Too smart. So would you say an NBA exec is an expert at evaluation? your boyfriend said they werent. Bottom line is an NBA player is better at evaluation than you. Justifying By saying comments made about brandon roy is just ignorant. Just because someone is a tough cover hardly justifies completely how great of a player they are. If jordan was phenomenal for one year but never played again but no one could cover him for that one year does that mean he would be the greatest still. Dumb argument son. Im trying to deal with it thank you for reading all my posts. I'm glad you care. As for my debates with someone else I don think you need to be anybody's knight on here do you? If you ever want more of my attention just pm me son.

Sactown
03-29-2013, 10:09 PM
You are very smart. Too smart. So would you say an NBA exec is an expert at evaluation? your boyfriend said they werent. Bottom line is an NBA player is better at evaluation than you. Justifying By saying comments made about brandon roy is just ignorant. Just because someone is a tough cover hardly justifies completely how great of a player they are. If jordan was phenomenal for one year but never played again but no one could cover him for that one year does that mean he would be the greatest still. Dumb argument son. Im trying to deal with it thank you for reading all my posts. I'm glad you care. As for my debates with someone else I don think you need to be anybody's knight on here do you? If you ever want more of my attention just pm me son.
Calling Hawkeye my boyfriend takes away from your whole argument... it's unnecessary and just crude... Yes NBA EXEC are paid to evaluate players talent, but obviously not all are so great at it, thus we have teams like Washing, Sacramento, Toronto, Charlotte, Clippers till recently, Warriors till recently,Wolves, and the list does go on. I don't think all are the greatest at evaluating talent, and yes players are historically bad evaluators... But sure if you want to throw all your eggs in someone else's basket it seems rather ignorant.. You clearly don't have a mind of your own.

mngopher35
03-29-2013, 10:11 PM
Yes, I do.

2005- Kobe has his case, but his team sucks.
2006- Wade
2007- Dirk
2008- Paul/LeBron
2009- LeBron
2010- LeBron
2011- LeBron
2012- LeBron
2013- LeBron

Why dirk in 2007? Your including the whole year including playoffs correct? That year Dirk was definitely a better offensive player than duncan but Duncan was still an elite defensive anchor imo, better rebounder, and was still very solid on offense. To go along with all of that Duncan played well in the playoffs helping his team to a championship (granted he didn't get finals mvp) while dirk had a pretty weak series and got ousted in an upset . I feel like Duncan was the better player that year.

jayjay33
03-29-2013, 10:19 PM
Brandon Roy is the best ever. Yea I'm a troll. Happy? Who are you again. I didn't think my post was talking to you but if you want my attention. You got it. What do you want to know son?

Lol the point was to prove that an NBA players evaluation of any other player means nothing... Because they play the game doesn't mean they're an expert at evaluating it...

The opinion of your peers always means something. What world do you live in where it doesn't. Lol

mngopher35
03-29-2013, 10:25 PM
Single numbers from 2008 to 2009 Between

Lebron James 66-16 Record
Chris Paul 49-33 Record
Kobe Bryant 65-17 Record

Lebron lead the best team, with Kobe 1 game behind, while CP3's team was almost a 50 win team.. Each player has enough team success to be in the argument

Lebron James RAW STATS 28/7/7 49% shooting
Kobe Bryant RAW STATS 27/5/5 47% shooting
Chris Paul Raw STATS 23/11/5.5 50% shooting

Lebron probably has the best stats followed by CP3 and than Kobe Bryant

ADVANCED STATS:

Lebron PER 31.7 TS% .591 WS/48 .318
CP3 PER 30.0 TS% .599 WS/48 .292
KOBE PER 24.4 TS% .561 WS/48 .206

Lebron has the best advanced stats followed by CP3 and Kobe in last again


I can see people arguing that Chris Pauls team was a 7th seed and should eliminate him from the topic... fine whatever, but Lebrons team had more success, and had a significant statistical edge.

I agree with it was James but I also think it would be fair to point out Wade as well.

Team record: 43-39 (42-37 with wade). 30.2 ppg 7.5 apg 5.0 rpg PER 30.4 TS% .574 WS/48 .232

Obviously stats are never the entire story but I know at least a few people consider wade the best in 2009 though. I think with the team record, how he played in the playoffs, and having the best production it was still Lebron, but all 4 of these guys had great years and I have heard people argue each of them.

Sactown
03-29-2013, 10:32 PM
The opinion of your peers always means something. What world do you live in where it doesn't. Lol

Former players evaluations hold no weight in an argument... In what world do you live in where they do. Lol?

Sactown
03-29-2013, 10:34 PM
I agree with it was James but I also think it would be fair to point out Wade as well.

Team record: 43-39 (42-37 with wade). 30.2 ppg 7.5 apg 5.0 rpg PER 30.4 TS% .574 WS/48 .232

Obviously stats are never the entire story but I know at least a few people consider wade the best in 2009 though. I think with the team record, how he played in the playoffs, and having the best production it was still Lebron, but all 4 of these guys had great years and I have heard people argue each of them.

I was just comparing the 3 players mentioned I didn't have anything against Wade, he just wasn't mentioned, and yeah sure he has an argument, His team was pretty mediocre to get into the conversation, but his statistical numbers are pretty dominate.. I'd put him behind Lebron and CP3 judging on pure statistical value.

basch152
03-29-2013, 10:34 PM
Why dirk in 2007? Your including the whole year including playoffs correct? That year Dirk was definitely a better offensive player than duncan but Duncan was still an elite defensive anchor imo, better rebounder, and was still very solid on offense. To go along with all of that Duncan played well in the playoffs helping his team to a championship (granted he didn't get finals mvp) while dirk had a pretty weak series and got ousted in an upset . I feel like Duncan was the better player that year.

People like to forget about things like defense when considering MVPs.

If they didn't, Nash would never have even been considered for an MVP.

Love the guy, but his defense was awful, and people overrate him because they don't take defense into consideration when talking about how good a player is.

Sactown
03-29-2013, 10:34 PM
I agree with it was James but I also think it would be fair to point out Wade as well.

Team record: 43-39 (42-37 with wade). 30.2 ppg 7.5 apg 5.0 rpg PER 30.4 TS% .574 WS/48 .232

Obviously stats are never the entire story but I know at least a few people consider wade the best in 2009 though. I think with the team record, how he played in the playoffs, and having the best production it was still Lebron, but all 4 of these guys had great years and I have heard people argue each of them.

I was just comparing the 3 players mentioned I didn't have anything against Wade, he just wasn't mentioned, and yeah sure he has an argument, His team was pretty mediocre to get into the conversation, but his statistical numbers are pretty dominate.. I'd put him behind Lebron and CP3 judging on pure statistical value.

basch152
03-29-2013, 10:35 PM
Why dirk in 2007? Your including the whole year including playoffs correct? That year Dirk was definitely a better offensive player than duncan but Duncan was still an elite defensive anchor imo, better rebounder, and was still very solid on offense. To go along with all of that Duncan played well in the playoffs helping his team to a championship (granted he didn't get finals mvp) while dirk had a pretty weak series and got ousted in an upset . I feel like Duncan was the better player that year.

People like to forget about things like defense when considering MVPs.

If they didn't, Nash would never have even been considered for an MVP.

Love the guy, but his defense was awful, and people overrate him because they don't take defense into consideration when talking about how good a player is.

mngopher35
03-30-2013, 12:23 AM
I was just comparing the 3 players mentioned I didn't have anything against Wade, he just wasn't mentioned, and yeah sure he has an argument, His team was pretty mediocre to get into the conversation, but his statistical numbers are pretty dominate.. I'd put him behind Lebron and CP3 judging on pure statistical value.

Totally understand. Those are the 4 names I have heard from people as the best player that year, so I figured might as well add him as well to that convo.

Sactown
03-30-2013, 12:27 AM
Totally understand. Those are the 4 names I have heard from people as the best player that year, so I figured might as well add him as well to that convo.

Definitely a good add, anyone who posts a per of 30 should be in the conversation automatically. He definitely slipped under the radar since he was on a bad team.

amos1er
03-30-2013, 03:59 AM
In '08 he put up 28 6 5, team had the best record in the west, was player of the week and month multiple times, all defense, and went on to carry his team to a ring and finals MVP. I'm not sure what more proof you need. Those are facts.

Also you have Lebron as MVP in '08 and he actually finished 4th in voting that year. His stats were amazing but his team only won 45 games in a weak east.

So by your logic Kobe should be in MVP consideration the year he put up 35 a night and was torching the league. His team had 45 wins, just like your '08 Lebron, except it was in a stacked West and Kwame Brown and Smush were starters instead of Mo Williams and Varejoa.....

Oh no...you made an excellent point. I hope you don't expect any of these Lebronites to acknowledge any of this. Funny thing is that I have brought up this same point many times on here and it does no good. These guys are too set in their hate to look at any of this objectively. No matter how blatantly strong and obvious the evidence is they will continue to make their outlandish claims like "Kobe was never the best player in the NBA for any single season" or "Kobe didn't deserve the MVP award in 2008". It's really comical at times. My personal favorite is "Lebron or Wade could have scored 81 if they wanted to, all they had to do was hog the ball. You really just have to sit back and laugh at these guys. They say such foolish things that they aren't even worth debating most of the time.

Sactown
03-30-2013, 12:55 PM
Oh no...you made an excellent point. I hope you don't expect any of these Lebronites to acknowledge any of this. Funny thing is that I have brought up this same point many times on here and it does no good. These guys are too set in their hate to look at any of this objectively. No matter how blatantly strong and obvious the evidence is they will continue to make their outlandish claims like "Kobe was never the best player in the NBA for any single season" or "Kobe didn't deserve the MVP award in 2008". It's really comical at times. My personal favorite is "Lebron or Wade could have scored 81 if they wanted to, all they had to do was hog the ball. You really just have to sit back and laugh at these guys. They say such foolish things that they aren't even worth debating most of the time.

For one, He didn't average those numbers that season... it was 26/5/5 I believe, for two... Pau Gasol was equally as good as Kobe in the playoffs and was the huge reason they won a ring... Neither of the other 3 players who are in the argument had a player close to Pau's caliber so no it's not a good point... it's a poor one..

Also I'm not a Lebron-Whatever-The-****-You-Want-To-Call-It.... I'm just a fan of the Kings and of the sport...

And the Lebron 81 points Whaaaa Whhaaa argument people bring up is stupid... It's in neither players game to score 81 points.. they aren't high volume scorers.. Kobe is... and as great of a game that was for Kobe, it was a 1 time game in a 17 years... Honestly, I don't have a problem with Kobe getting the MVP, but I don't think he was the best player that season

and yes I did acknowledged the post...

TheNumber37
03-30-2013, 01:05 PM
He's also has the most FG attempts and lowest FG% of anyone in the top 5.

Faneik
03-30-2013, 01:54 PM
He's also has the most FG attempts and lowest FG% of anyone in the top 5.

that's the thing about kobe... he forces shots.

on top of that, he forces even more, if his team is behind.

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 06:09 PM
Why dirk in 2007? Your including the whole year including playoffs correct? That year Dirk was definitely a better offensive player than duncan but Duncan was still an elite defensive anchor imo, better rebounder, and was still very solid on offense. To go along with all of that Duncan played well in the playoffs helping his team to a championship (granted he didn't get finals mvp) while dirk had a pretty weak series and got ousted in an upset . I feel like Duncan was the better player that year.

People like to forget about things like defense when considering MVPs.

If they didn't, Nash would never have even been considered for an MVP.

Love the guy, but his defense was awful, and people overrate him because they don't take defense into consideration when talking about how good a player is.

In addition to defense, they also like to forget about heart. Dirk played zero defense and got punked by s-jax and cracked under the pressure. But he was the best player in the league


Child please........

Chronz
03-30-2013, 06:16 PM
Kobe had absolute no case in 2005.

his stats were awesome, but yes, I agree he really had no case. I actually confused his 35 ppg year with 2006, thought it was 2005. So no, he had no chance.
Lol his stats weren't awesome

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 06:23 PM
The opinion of your peers always means something. What world do you live in where it doesn't. Lol

Former players evaluations hold no weight in an argument... In what world do you live in where they do. Lol?

The real world. Which apparently your not in. A lot of People care what the players think. Player opinions may mean nothing to "you" but then again yours don't mean anything to anybody. Yours peers opinion always matter. What doesn't matter is the opinion of novice like yourself. I think you need a reality check. Lol

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 06:37 PM
I know of your well documented hatred for Kobe but not even giving him consideration in his back to back finals years, including a MVP season, is a bit much even for you my good fellow!

Instead of attacking me as a Kobe hater, make a case. That is what I don't get about Kobe fans. They can't make a sold, win me over case, they just call me a hater for not agreeing.

When, in his career, was Kobe the best player in the NBA? Show me, instead of calling me names.

Because you are a hater.....

An you can make "win me over case" for dirk being the best player in the league in 2007. Everybody knows damn well he wasn't a better basketball player than Kobe, that is absurd.

amos1er
03-30-2013, 06:44 PM
Because you are a hater.....

An you can make "win me over case" for dirk being the best player in the league in 2007. Everybody knows damn well he wasn't a better basketball player than Kobe, that is absurd.

This forum is comedy hour 24/7 concerning the absurd things I hear in relation to Kobe Bryant. It really would be a great topic on a sports radio talk show. Some of these guys could make these outlandish claims and just get clowned by the hosts and the callers. Then they could get laughed at my millions instead of the usual hundreds on here who laugh at them on a daily basis. Though I suspect they take greater liberties on here in regards to the foolish things they say. Hopefully they would have the common sense to tone it down in a real life situation.

Hawkeye15
03-30-2013, 07:00 PM
Because you are a hater.....

An you can make "win me over case" for dirk being the best player in the league in 2007. Everybody knows damn well he wasn't a better basketball player than Kobe, that is absurd.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=nowitdi01&y1=2007&p2=bryanko01&y2=2007

Dirk's stats and impact take a dump on Kobe's that year, hence why he won the MVP award, as the top player in the game on the top regular season team.

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 07:03 PM
Oh no...you made an excellent point. I hope you don't expect any of these Lebronites to acknowledge any of this. Funny thing is that I have brought up this same point many times on here and it does no good. These guys are too set in their hate to look at any of this objectively. No matter how blatantly strong and obvious the evidence is they will continue to make their outlandish claims like "Kobe was never the best player in the NBA for any single season" or "Kobe didn't deserve the MVP award in 2008". It's really comical at times. My personal favorite is "Lebron or Wade could have scored 81 if they wanted to, all they had to do was hog the ball. You really just have to sit back and laugh at these guys. They say such foolish things that they aren't even worth debating most of the time.

For one, He didn't average those numbers that season... it was 26/5/5 I believe, for two... Pau Gasol was equally as good as Kobe in the playoffs and was the huge reason they won a ring... Neither of the other 3 players who are in the argument had a player close to Pau's caliber so no it's not a good point... it's a poor one..

Also I'm not a Lebron-Whatever-The-****-You-Want-To-Call-It.... I'm just a fan of the Kings and of the sport...

And the Lebron 81 points Whaaaa Whhaaa argument people bring up is stupid... It's in neither players game to score 81 points.. they aren't high volume scorers.. Kobe is... and as great of a game that was for Kobe, it was a 1 time game in a 17 years... Honestly, I don't have a problem with Kobe getting the MVP, but I don't think he was the best player that season

and yes I did acknowledged the post...

1. No gasol played very well, but he was not as good as Kobe. Just stop, cause you clearly don't know what the your talking about.

2. I'll trade you gasol for Tyson and west anyday.


3. Having good players doesn't diminish what you do because you still have to go out there and make it happen. No body had players as good as lebron had two years ago, but that didn't stop him from folding like a Lilly liveried mama boy now did it. Lol

mngopher35
03-30-2013, 07:28 PM
1. No gasol played very well, but he was not as good as Kobe. Just stop, cause you clearly don't know what the your talking about.

2. I'll trade you gasol for Tyson and west anyday.


3. Having good players doesn't diminish what you do because you still have to go out there and make it happen. No body had players as good as lebron had two years ago, but that didn't stop him from folding like a Lilly liveried mama boy now did it. Lol

1. I agree, in 2009 Kobe definitely played better than Gasol in the playoffs. 2010 was very close but still kobe was the best player on those laker teams every year those two have been together.

2. I'll agree, but still that is a 2 for 1 trade. I wouldn't trade lamar and pau for west and chandler. Outside of those two all that team had was peja who could score but had absolutely no d. The lakers team had more around kobe than hornets around paul.

3. Why do all of you guys need to bash Lebron to defend Kobe? Most of the posters in here that are arguing against kobe being the best player whatever year at least try and back up their points. Most of the people who disagree have just responded by calling them out, bashing them, or bringing up lebron in a negative way. Can't you guys just have a discussion without worrying about Lebron or bashing another poster who is trying to provide reasoning behind their opinions?

b@llhog24
03-30-2013, 07:29 PM
Lol his stats weren't awesome

That's subjective.

Faneik
03-30-2013, 07:41 PM
1. I agree, in 2009 Kobe definitely played better than Gasol in the playoffs. 2010 was very close but still kobe was the best player on those laker teams every year those two have been together.

2. I'll agree, but still that is a 2 for 1 trade. I wouldn't trade lamar and pau for west and chandler. Outside of those two all that team had was peja who could score but had absolutely no d. The lakers team had more around kobe than hornets around paul.

3. Why do all of you guys need to bash Lebron to defend Kobe? Most of the posters in here that are arguing against kobe being the best player whatever year at least try and back up their points. Most of the people who disagree have just responded by calling them out, bashing them, or bringing up lebron in a negative way. Can't you guys just have a discussion without worrying about Lebron or bashing another poster who is trying to provide reasoning behind their opinions?

It's frustration.

They thought they had a super team. They realize their team is old as hell, without the legs to play defense.

Regarding Kobe, they can't stand that most non-Laker fans think Kobe is a great scorer, but an inefficient one, whose hero-ball mentality hurts the team.

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 07:48 PM
Because you are a hater.....

An you can make "win me over case" for dirk being the best player in the league in 2007. Everybody knows damn well he wasn't a better basketball player than Kobe, that is absurd.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=nowitdi01&y1=2007&p2=bryanko01&y2=2007

Dirk's stats and impact take a dump on Kobe's that year, hence why he won the MVP award, as the top player in the game on the top regular season team.

Sorry not convinced "A win me over case" that completely ignore's two of the biggest factors defense and heart. Sounds a like a hater trying to spin to me. Kobe's getting 31 ppg to dirk's 24 ppg and only 3 less rebounds that a 7 footer? An on top of that, kobe's heart and defensive ability's take a dump all over dirk's by a WIDE MARGIN. Dirk let himself get punked out his game and his numbers took a nose dive in the playoffs. An His already BAD defense got even worse! lol, Which is was why Dallas would not have gotten embraced by golden state if they had Kobe instead of dirk. Why? because Kobe is A MUCH BETTER PLAYER.


C'mon man I need a " win me over case" that case was half ***. Your coming off looking like a hater. You just made a so called " win me over case" ignoring heart and defense. But your not a hater. Lmao!

Now the truth is that year and maybe other years dirk may have had a better TS or a higher WS.....etc. But we both know he was not actually a "better player" than Kobe Bryant. At the rnd of the 2007 season, everybody an they ma'am would have traded you dirk for Kobe. Lol, you really need to stop hating.


An just for future reference, always remember. If your soft and you let people punk you out yo game. YOU CAN NEVER BE THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD......EVER.

mngopher35
03-30-2013, 07:53 PM
It's frustration.

They thought they had a super team. They realize their team is old as hell, without the legs to play defense.

Regarding Kobe, they can't stand that most non-Laker fans think Kobe is a great scorer, but an inefficient one, whose hero-ball mentality hurts the team.

Kobe can be inefficient at times playing hero ball no doubt, but he has also won many games that way. Overall he isn't that much less efficient than say wade throughout their careers. I think with chris paul in his prime, and then Durant and Lebron putting up points insanely efficiently is making kobe's look worse than it is. Overall he has a near identical ts% as tim duncan (kobe very slightly better in regular season, Tim slightly better in post season). I do agree though some people fail to take efficiency into account at all.

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 08:09 PM
1. No gasol played very well, but he was not as good as Kobe. Just stop, cause you clearly don't know what the your talking about.

2. I'll trade you gasol for Tyson and west anyday.


3. Having good players doesn't diminish what you do because you still have to go out there and make it happen. No body had players as good as lebron had two years ago, but that didn't stop him from folding like a Lilly liveried mama boy now did it. Lol

1. I agree, in 2009 Kobe definitely played better than Gasol in the playoffs. 2010 was very close but still kobe was the best player on those laker teams every year those two have been together.

2. I'll agree, but still that is a 2 for 1 trade. I wouldn't trade lamar and pau for west and chandler. Outside of those two all that team had was peja who could score but had absolutely no d. The lakers team had more around kobe than hornets around paul.

3. Why do all of you guys need to bash Lebron to defend Kobe? Most of the posters in here that are arguing against kobe being the best player whatever year at least try and back up their points. Most of the people who disagree have just responded by calling them out, bashing them, or bringing up lebron in a negative way. Can't you guys just have a discussion without worrying about Lebron or bashing another poster who is trying to provide reasoning behind their opinions?


1. I'm not lebron bashing. They brought up lebron. I was simply using him as an example. Of how having good teammates isn't some kind of auto win that makes winning irrelevant. By pointing out that even if you have good teammates you still had to get it done....ie LBJ two years ago.

2. If People didn't come in a kobe thread with a list of all the years they thought lebron was better. I wouldn't be force to talk about what lebron did or didn't do, now would I?

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 08:26 PM
1. I agree, in 2009 Kobe definitely played better than Gasol in the playoffs. 2010 was very close but still kobe was the best player on those laker teams every year those two have been together.

2. I'll agree, but still that is a 2 for 1 trade. I wouldn't trade lamar and pau for west and chandler. Outside of those two all that team had was peja who could score but had absolutely no d. The lakers team had more around kobe than hornets around paul.

3. Why do all of you guys need to bash Lebron to defend Kobe? Most of the posters in here that are arguing against kobe being the best player whatever year at least try and back up their points. Most of the people who disagree have just responded by calling them out, bashing them, or bringing up lebron in a negative way. Can't you guys just have a discussion without worrying about Lebron or bashing another poster who is trying to provide reasoning behind their opinions?

It's frustration.

They thought they had a super team. They realize their team is old as hell, without the legs to play defense.

Regarding Kobe, they can't stand that most non-Laker fans think Kobe is a great scorer, but an inefficient one, whose hero-ball mentality hurts the team.


1. NO you think that. Most non-laker fans think Kobe is a "great player" whose play won championships. Stick to speaking for yourself.

2. Jordan and Kobe are the only "non gigantic" players to have that level of success. So no matter what style of play you "think" Kobe has. You are clearly WAAAAAY wrong about it's effectiveness. Lol

mngopher35
03-30-2013, 08:31 PM
1. I'm not lebron bashing. They brought up lebron. I was simply using him as an example. Of how having good teammates isn't some kind of auto win that makes winning irrelevant. By pointing out that even if you have good teammates you still had to get it done....ie LBJ two years ago.

2. If People didn't come in a kobe thread with a list of all the years they thought lebron was better. I wouldn't be force to talk about what lebron did or didn't do, now would I?

The team point could have easily been made without even mentioning lebron but instead you chose to say Lebron folded like a mama boy or whatever (in a year we aren't even discussing). You decided to use Lebron not the team as an example and then take a shot at him specifically. Your not the only one that the 3rd point was talking about though that was more of a general statement about the last few pages of posters.

2. People were asked to make a list each year of who the best player in the nba was. Some feel Lebron has been the best since 09 and that is what their list reflected, are you saying they can't have that opinion? I don't get what your saying here, it makes it sound like your mad they have a different opinion.

Faneik
03-30-2013, 08:42 PM
1. NO you think that. Most non-laker fans think Kobe is a "great player" whose play won championships. Stick to speaking for yourself.

2. Jordan and Kobe are the only "non gigantic" players to have that level of success. So no matter what style of play you "think" Kobe has. You are clearly WAAAAAY wrong about it's effectiveness. Lol

1. keep believing that

2. Jordan shot 50% for his career. kobe 45%. You're 'WWAAAYY' wrong if you think they dominated the game with the same impact.

Faneik
03-30-2013, 08:46 PM
Btw, Jordan didn't have a big man for half his career who demanded double teams.

In case you don't know why I mention this, it's because it should help the %'s.

ElChinoLatino
03-30-2013, 08:52 PM
1. NO you think that. Most non-laker fans think Kobe is a "great player" whose play won championships. Stick to speaking for yourself.

2. Jordan and Kobe are the only "non gigantic" players to have that level of success. So no matter what style of play you "think" Kobe has. You are clearly WAAAAAY wrong about it's effectiveness. Lol

Kobe is number 1 out of the top 20 greatest of all time........ in inefficiency. Some say artisans could build nations out of his vast valleys full of bricks; historians are still counting.

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 09:12 PM
It's frustration.

They thought they had a super team. They realize their team is old as hell, without the legs to play defense.

Regarding Kobe, they can't stand that most non-Laker fans think Kobe is a great scorer, but an inefficient one, whose hero-ball mentality hurts the team.

Kobe can be inefficient at times playing hero ball no doubt, but he has also won many games that way. Overall he isn't that much less efficient than say wade throughout their careers. I think with chris paul in his prime, and then Durant and Lebron putting up points insanely efficiently is making kobe's look worse than it is. Overall he has a near identical ts% as tim duncan (kobe very slightly better in regular season, Tim slightly better in post season). I do agree though some people fail to take efficiency into account at all.

The thing is Kobe understands. Is the goal is still to have more points than your opponent and you don't automatically get extra points for being highly efficient. Whats most efficient and whats most likely to result in us scoring the most points aren't always the same thing. As your teams superstar you have to be able to determine when they coincide and when they don't.

Now that being said. The smaller you are the harder it is to be both highly efficient and consistently successful. Sometimes the team needs the extra points more than they need insanely high efficiency. An if your not ginormous, like LBJ or Durant where you can a lot of high percentage shots at will and due both putting more pressure on the defense) you most likely have to choose. Now no doubt Sometimes Kobe chooses wrong, but IMO a lot more often than not he chooses right.

Edit: (although I think okc would be tougher with Durant less efficient, but taking more shots, instead of Westbrook).

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 09:30 PM
1. NO you think that. Most non-laker fans think Kobe is a "great player" whose play won championships. Stick to speaking for yourself.

2. Jordan and Kobe are the only "non gigantic" players to have that level of success. So no matter what style of play you "think" Kobe has. You are clearly WAAAAAY wrong about it's effectiveness. Lol

1. keep believing that

2. Jordan shot 50% for his career. kobe 45%. You're 'WWAAAYY' wrong if you think they dominated the game with the same impact.


1. Keep believing what? That he's a great player it that he win championship? Please find some people who don't think that it be proven a hater.....I'll wait.

2. You may have poor reading comp. when did I say the Same level. I said to reach "that" level of success. Let me make it easier for you to understand. Lol, Jordan is the only "non gigantic" player to have kobe's level of success. So no matter what style of play you "think" Kobe has. You are clearly WAAAAAY wrong about it's effectiveness. Lol Better?

Faneik
03-30-2013, 09:36 PM
1. Keep believing what? That he's a great player it that he win championship? Please find some people who don't think that it be proven a hater.....I'll wait.

2. You may have poor reading comp. when did I say the Same level. I said to reach "that" level of success. Let me make it easier for you to understand. Lol, Jordan is the only "non gigantic" player to have kobe's level of success. So no matter what style of play you "think" Kobe has. You are clearly WAAAAAY wrong about it's effectiveness. Lol Better?

1. you got it wrong. I meant I'm not the only one thinking that. This thread proves it.

2. how am I wrong when the %'s prove it? They tell us that he shoots a lot, at 45%. Like someone said, of the top players, he's the most inneficient.

Faneik
03-30-2013, 09:38 PM
The thing is Kobe understands. Is the goal is still to have more points than your opponent and you don't automatically get extra points for being highly efficient. Whats most efficient and whats most likely to result in us scoring the most points aren't always the same thing. As your teams superstar you have to be able to determine when they coincide and when they don't.

Now that being said. The smaller you are the harder it is to be both highly efficient and consistently successful. Sometimes the team needs the extra points more than they need insanely high efficiency. An if your not ginormous, like LBJ or Durant where you can a lot of high percentage shots at will and due both putting more pressure on the defense) you most likely have to choose. Now no doubt Sometimes Kobe chooses wrong, but IMO a lot more often than not he chooses right.

Edit: (although I think okc would be tougher with Durant less efficient, but taking more shots, instead of Westbrook).

if you don't think better %'s --> BETTER EFFICIENCY, leads to more points, this conversation is over.

Not wasting my time with you.

lol, please
03-30-2013, 09:46 PM
With 4 more points.

Kobe needs 4 more points to pass wilt for fourth on the all time scoring list.on an unrelated note kobe is 33rd on the assist list.


Caw cawwwwwwww


Free as a seagull

Sorry to burst your bubble but much like Brees in the NFL, he's basically doing it to chase a record, he's on team that's not even going to the playoffs. Diminished.

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 09:59 PM
1. NO you think that. Most non-laker fans think Kobe is a "great player" whose play won championships. Stick to speaking for yourself.

2. Jordan and Kobe are the only "non gigantic" players to have that level of success. So no matter what style of play you "think" Kobe has. You are clearly WAAAAAY wrong about it's effectiveness. Lol

Kobe is number 1 out of the top 20 greatest of all time........ in inefficiency. Some say artisans could build nations out of his vast valleys full of bricks; historians are still counting.


An how many of them aren't the size of a California Redwood and still took there teams to championships? your list just got pretty short uh? Lol

So all your really saying is that's it's. harder to hit a jump shot than to have some big monster stand under to goal and put it in. Well, no ****ing **** genius. Lmao, who cares the only goal is to win.

Kobe as accomplished what was thought to be reserved for giants. Historians are amazed at the stupidly of people who think it matters that it took him a few more shots per game to do it. Lol

Faneik
03-30-2013, 10:10 PM
An how many of them aren't the size of a California Redwood and still took there teams to championships? your list just got pretty short uh? Lol

So all your really saying is that's it's. harder to hit a jump shot than to have some big monster stand under to goal and put it in. Well, no ****ing **** genius. Lmao, who cares the only goal is to win.

Kobe as accomplished what was thought to be reserved for giants. Historians are amazed at the stupidly of people who think it matters that it took him a few more shots per game to do it. Lol

You seem to forget that in 3 of his rings, Kobe was a sidekick to a "giant"

In his other 2 rings, he had the best front-court rotation in the league in Bynum, Gasol and Odom.

Stop acting like he did it by himself.

ElChinoLatino
03-30-2013, 10:33 PM
An how many of them aren't the size of a California Redwood and still took there teams to championships? your list just got pretty short uh? Lol

So all your really saying is that's it's. harder to hit a jump shot than to have some big monster stand under to goal and put it in. Well, no ****ing **** genius. Lmao, who cares the only goal is to win.

Kobe as accomplished what was thought to be reserved for giants. Historians are amazed at the stupidly of people who think it matters that it took him a few more shots per game to do it. Lol

The only place Kobe has taken his team to is to the 8th seed at best, you possibly are referring to Shaq who carried him to 3 championships and Pau and Bynum who were the best front court in the NBA during his last 2 championships.

All I'm really saying is that he would be helping his team a lot more by not opening more hotels with his gargantuan amount of bricks he delivers every game. You seem to clearly have a firm grasp of the obvious, yet you seem not understand it. Like another poster said, if you think having a low FG% is inefficient, then this conversation is over.

Sigh*Ah yes, Kobe accomplished more than we could've ever had imagined, but have you wondered all the new civilizations he would have helped built with his bricks if he would've had the help LeBron had his first 7 years. The possibilities are endless, which one of them was of course, leave the Lakers. Fascinating.

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 10:58 PM
The thing is Kobe understands. Is the goal is still to have more points than your opponent and you don't automatically get extra points for being highly efficient. Whats most efficient and whats most likely to result in us scoring the most points aren't always the same thing. As your teams superstar you have to be able to determine when they coincide and when they don't.

Now that being said. The smaller you are the harder it is to be both highly efficient and consistently successful. Sometimes the team needs the extra points more than they need insanely high efficiency. An if your not ginormous, like LBJ or Durant where you can a lot of high percentage shots at will and due both putting more pressure on the defense) you most likely have to choose. Now no doubt Sometimes Kobe chooses wrong, but IMO a lot more often than not he chooses right.

Edit: (although I think okc would be tougher with Durant less efficient, but taking more shots, instead of Westbrook).

if you don't think better %'s --> BETTER EFFICIENCY, leads to more points, this conversation is over.

Not wasting my time with you.

Do you no anything AT ALL about basketball? Nothing you say makes any sense. Having to take more shots means having to be less efficient The more shots you take the more your % will drop. Does your brain understand that. Do you think this is some kind of fantasy land were no matter how many shot you take your percentage stays the same. YOU HAVE TO PICK YOU SPOTS TO HAVE A HIGH EFFICIENCY. An sometimes a your team needs your 50pts at 40% a lot more than your 30pts at 75%. On those nights being less efficient got your team more points.


Sometimes superstars have to keep shooting even thought taking more and more shots causes there efficiency to drop. Because nobody else is hitting. An they would fall to far behind.

You want to talk basketball and you don't even know that sometimes superstars being less efficient helps there team score more points? Really dude? You need to learn the game man. Every game is different, teammates are different. You have to play accordingly. Lol


If your only shooting 42% but nobody else can throw a rock in the ocean that night. THEN YOU HAVE TO KEEP SHOOTING GENIUS. What kind fool sees his team struggling and says we will score more if I just stay efficient and pick my spots. No you will lose by 30.

So to answer your question. Better efficiency does not necessarily lead to more points because 1. The more shots you have to take the more your percentage drops and 2. Because your not on the court by yourself, an your low efficiency could still be better than your teammates no efficiency. Learn the game dude.

Jenceman
03-30-2013, 11:04 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but much like Brees in the NFL, he's basically doing it to chase a record, he's on team that's not even going to the playoffs. Diminished.

Oh tell us more about how you know everything. Should he just not score at all while the Lakers are fighting for that 8th seed?

mngopher35
03-30-2013, 11:33 PM
Do you no anything AT ALL about basketball? Nothing you say makes any sense. Having to take more shots means having to be less efficient The more shots you take the more your % will drop. Does your brain understand that. Do you think this is some kind of fantasy land were no matter how many shot you take your percentage stays the same. YOU HAVE TO PICK YOU SPOTS TO HAVE A HIGH EFFICIENCY. An sometimes a your team needs your 50pts at 40% a lot more than your 30pts at 75%. On those nights being less efficient got your team more points.


Sometimes superstars have to keep shooting even thought taking more and more shots causes there efficiency to drop. Because nobody else is hitting. An they would fall to far behind.

You want to talk basketball and you don't even know that sometimes superstars being less efficient helps there team score more points? Really dude? You need to learn the game man. Every game is different, teammates are different. You have to play accordingly. Lol


If your only shooting 42% but nobody else can throw a rock in the ocean that night. THEN YOU HAVE TO KEEP SHOOTING GENIUS. What kind fool sees his team struggling and says we will score more if I just stay efficient and pick my spots. No you will lose by 30.

So to answer your question. Better efficiency does not necessarily lead to more points because 1. The more shots you have to take the more your percentage drops and 2. Because your not on the court by yourself, an your low efficiency could still be better than your teammates no efficiency. Learn the game dude.

I don't agree completely about kobe being some ballhog or any of that crap but there is a grain of truth in there. You can't just use the excuse of well he shot more that is why his efficiency is lower. He has been playing with big men who are very efficient scorers and has at times (not always) seemed to ignore them on the court while just trying to score. Sure sometimes his teammates couldn't hit a shot like you said but that was not always the case. Pau and Bynum have been more efficient scorers in the regular season basically the entire time since pau got there. In the post season kobe was more efficient in 2008 playoffs, but every year after at least one if not 2 big men were more efficient than him. It is not fair to say he had to go out and shoot because no one could score when his bigs were very good at scoring efficiently. The point some people try and make is that if he had been a bit more of a playmaker than a scorer at times his teams maybe could have scored more efficiently.

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 11:35 PM
[QUOTE=jayjay33;25771903]An how many of them aren't the size of a California Redwood and still took there teams to championships? your list just got pretty short uh? Lol

So all your really saying is that's it's. harder to hit a jump shot than to have some big monster stand under to goal and put it in. Well, no ****ing **** genius. Lmao, who cares the only goal is to win.

Kobe as accomplished what was thought to be reserved for giants. Historians are amazed at the stupidly of people who think it matters that it took him a few more shots per game to do it. Lol

You seem to forget that in 3 of his rings, Kobe was a sidekick to a "giant"

In his other 2 rings, he had the best front-court rotation in the league in Bynum, Gasol and Odom.

Stop acting like he did it by himself.[/QUOTE

1. Wait you mean the bynum that barley even played? An was just a body The little he did. I love hater revisionist history.

2. Pau and odom? D12 and Lewis? Tyson and west? Somebody listed is not an all star now who would that be?


You seem to want to avoid the question for some reason. Like I said who out of that list of 20 greats name the ones lead there team to a championships and wasn't a giant? Oh an just to show how stupid that pau odom argument you just made was. Please add anyone regardless of size from the list "if" they had a worst supporting cast than Kobe. Or "if" they won with 1 all star or less.

List still pretty short uh? Lol

Now read that new list and then explain to me the importance of Kobe's bricks again? Maybe everybody who's not a giant and doesn't have Multiple all stars should start shooting bricks uh? Lmmfao!

jayjay33
03-30-2013, 11:53 PM
An how many of them aren't the size of a California Redwood and still took there teams to championships? your list just got pretty short uh? Lol

So all your really saying is that's it's. harder to hit a jump shot than to have some big monster stand under to goal and put it in. Well, no ****ing **** genius. Lmao, who cares the only goal is to win.

Kobe as accomplished what was thought to be reserved for giants. Historians are amazed at the stupidly of people who think it matters that it took him a few more shots per game to do it. Lol

You seem to forget that in 3 of his rings, Kobe was a sidekick to a "giant"

In his other 2 rings, he had the best front-court rotation in the league in Bynum, Gasol and Odom.

Stop acting like he did it by himself.

They wasn't the best and Bynum didn't play. if you want to challenge that please say what he did. lol, I didn't say he did it by himself, i saying nobody else who wasn't a giant did it at all. but if wanna start throwing out teammates your case gets worse because all those big greats had more help than kobe did. You got no shot in a who had better teammates debate.

I also notice you have yet to start naming names? Where are all the guys who play the right way unlike Kobe?Cause it seems to me like all the great champions either took a **** load of shots or they were huge and didn't have to. Right now You look like a fool who can't back up what he's saying.


But wait your claiming he plays hero ball. So he gets the blame and the fame right? Unless your a hater trying to have it both ways, are you?

mngopher35
03-31-2013, 12:39 AM
1. Wait you mean the bynum that barley even played? An was just a body The little he did. I love hater revisionist history.

2. Pau and odom? D12 and Lewis? Tyson and west? Somebody listed is not an all star now who would that be?


You seem to want to avoid the question for some reason. Like I said who out of that list of 20 greats name the ones lead there team to a championships and wasn't a giant? Oh an just to show how stupid that pau odom argument you just made was. Please add anyone regardless of size from the list "if" they had a worst supporting cast than Kobe. Or "if" they won with 1 all star or less.

List still pretty short uh? Lol

Now read that new list and then explain to me the importance of Kobe's bricks again? Maybe everybody who's not a giant and doesn't have Multiple all stars should start shooting bricks uh? Lmmfao!

The lakers had the best regular season front court with Pau, Bynum, Odom. Even without Bynum they still had a near equal to better front court than the teams they played in the playoffs. Dwight was better than gasol no doubt, but odom was also better than Lewis during those playoffs. I can easily see giving the edge to orlando but it was really close and that was by far the strong suit of orlando. They had a backcourt of alston and courtney lee (jameer was injured and super inefficient, worse than bynum), if their frontcourt didn't dominate they were screwed.

You kept going on about how kobe was the first non giant to have so much success. Well when you look at it he had the help of great "giants" throughout a large chunk of his career, it isn't like his teams were winning without one. Jordan's teams won without a great scoring big but those teams were stacked, just in a different way. Every single player will have some sort of solid supporting cast to win a title. I just think it is totally fair to point out that although kobe isn't a dominant big like you said, when he has won he has had those types of players as well.

jayjay33
03-31-2013, 12:40 AM
1. Keep believing what? That he's a great player it that he win championship? Please find some people who don't think that it be proven a hater.....I'll wait.

2. You may have poor reading comp. when did I say the Same level. I said to reach "that" level of success. Let me make it easier for you to understand. Lol, Jordan is the only "non gigantic" player to have kobe's level of success. So no matter what style of play you "think" Kobe has. You are clearly WAAAAAY wrong about it's effectiveness. Lol Better?

1. you got it wrong. I meant I'm not the only one thinking that. This thread proves it.

2. how am I wrong when the %'s prove it? They tell us that he shoots a lot, at 45%. Like someone said, of the top players, he's the most inneficient.

1. This thread proves they think he's a great player who's play has won championships. Doesn't it? Yes or no?

2. An yet he still won. He's smaller and so he has a lower percentage. So ****ing what he won. Kobe has proven his way works. Your arguing the effectiveness of a style of play that's won chips and it's moronic. That's why your wrong.

mngopher35
03-31-2013, 12:42 AM
Also, congrats to kobe as he passed wilt tonight vs the kings to become 4th all time in points.

jayjay33
03-31-2013, 12:45 AM
With 4 more points.

Kobe needs 4 more points to pass wilt for fourth on the all time scoring list.on an unrelated note kobe is 33rd on the assist list.


Caw cawwwwwwww


Free as a seagull

Sorry to burst your bubble but much like Brees in the NFL, he's basically doing it to chase a record, he's on team that's not even going to the playoffs. Diminished.


Wtf you gotta hate on Drew Breezy? When Brees broke the record the saints were a contender! On top of that if you play the same way all the time, you not chasing jack. You just playing yo game.

UPRock
03-31-2013, 12:50 AM
18 shots for 19 points, great for Kobe.

shep33
03-31-2013, 12:54 AM
Gutsy effort by Kobe today. Amazing accomplishment

mngopher35
03-31-2013, 12:56 AM
18 shots for 19 points, great for Kobe.

Almost a triple double, 14 assists 9 boards and played the full 48 minutes. Just felt like you forgot something.

Tony_Starks
03-31-2013, 01:38 AM
Almost a triple double, 14 assists 9 boards and played the full 48 minutes. Just felt like you forgot something.

You appear to be a non-Laker fan that seems to at least try to keep it objective and leave out the hating.

Cheers to you sir!

mngopher35
03-31-2013, 01:50 AM
You appear to be a non-Laker fan that seems to at least try to keep it objective and leave out the hating.

Cheers to you sir!

I root against you guys every time I see you play pretty much haha (although I can't decide if I'd rather you guys or dallas make the playoffs). That being said I will always try to call it like I see it, and give credit where it is due.

jayjay33
03-31-2013, 01:58 AM
1. Wait you mean the bynum that barley even played? An was just a body The little he did. I love hater revisionist history.

2. Pau and odom? D12 and Lewis? Tyson and west? Somebody listed is not an all star now who would that be?


You seem to want to avoid the question for some reason. Like I said who out of that list of 20 greats name the ones lead there team to a championships and wasn't a giant? Oh an just to show how stupid that pau odom argument you just made was. Please add anyone regardless of size from the list "if" they had a worst supporting cast than Kobe. Or "if" they won with 1 all star or less.

List still pretty short uh? Lol

Now read that new list and then explain to me the importance of Kobe's bricks again? Maybe everybody who's not a giant and doesn't have Multiple all stars should start shooting bricks uh? Lmmfao!

The lakers had the best regular season front court with Pau, Bynum, Odom. Even without Bynum they still had a near equal to better front court than the teams they played in the playoffs. Dwight was better than gasol no doubt, but odom was also better than Lewis during those playoffs. I can easily see giving the edge to orlando but it was really close and that was by far the strong suit of orlando. They had a backcourt of alston and courtney lee (jameer was injured and super inefficient, worse than bynum), if their frontcourt didn't dominate they were screwed.

You kept going on about how kobe was the first non giant to have so much success. Well when you look at it he had the help of great "giants" throughout a large chunk of his career, it isn't like his teams were winning without one. Jordan's teams won without a great big but those teams were stacked, just in a different way. Every single player will have some sort of solid supporting cast to win a title. I just think it is totally fair to point out that although kobe isn't a dominant big like you said, when he has won he has had those types of players as well.

1. The best reg season front court Bynum miss half the damn season. Man you guys and this revisits history.

2. Bynum sucked and odom was ok jameer was not has hurt as Bynum who could barely walk. Lewis was an all star and a better player than odom. The lakers didn't front court of odom and pau were good not great and far from anything special.

3. Kobe had the help of 1 good big. Pau was never dominant, so just stop with that foolishness. He is not even a HOF'er based just on his play in the nba. So what's not fair is you making that ridiculous claim that Kobe had those types of big. Gasol is nothing like those great big guys, he is not anywhere near their "type" as you put it.... Your comparing pau gasol to those guys and crying about fair points. You got to be kidding. Those great giants lead the way. Just like Kobe and Jordan.

4. Thats facts should never be hidden. You not thinking "it's fair" doesn't change that. Like it or not the facts are only the giants and Jordan have reached Kobe's height's. You can pretend all really tall/big guys being the greatest players in history is just a coincidences all you want. Just don't ask me pretend along with you. By claiming it's not "fair" to mention that. Lol

5. Further more even though Kobe "might" be the most help anyone has ever had. You went on and on making a big deal out of how shaq lead the way in another thread. So to suggest that it's not "fair" to say kobe's is the only non giant to reach such heights. Because he had gasol as help Rings hollow from you of all people. Kobe lead the way. An your acting like soft as pau is Kevin Michale. Lol

Bottom line, yes every superstar even the big ones needed help to reach that level. But even with "help" Kobe and Jordan or the only ones who did it without being big themselves. An they most likely will be for a long, long time. Believe what you want, but I promise you them being only non big guys up there is not by accident.

UPRock
03-31-2013, 01:59 AM
Almost a triple double, 14 assists 9 boards and played the full 48 minutes. Just felt like you forgot something.

Rubio, almost a triple double, 23 points, 10 rebounds and 9 assists in 39 minutes yet people don't talk about him.
Just felt like you forgot something about YOUR own team. Obviously this thread is about what Kobe accomplished tonight, but what's so impressive about his game tonight in terms of stats.

mngopher35
03-31-2013, 02:53 AM
Rubio, almost a triple double, 23 points, 10 rebounds and 9 assists in 39 minutes yet people don't talk about him.
Just felt like you forgot something about YOUR own team. Obviously this thread is about what Kobe accomplished tonight, but what's so impressive about his game tonight in terms of stats.

Rubio has been playing amazing lately, not sure what that has to do with kobe though. You came in here saying he had 19 points on 18 shots tonight, and I just finished his stat line for you. I never said anything was so impressive about his stat line, just that saying he had 19 points on 18 shots wasn't the whole story since he also had 14 assists, 9 boards and only one turnover.

mngopher35
03-31-2013, 03:38 AM
The best reg season front court Bynum miss half the damn season. An you got the never to complain about fair with the revisits crap?

For 50/82 games that season the lakers had a frontcourt of Bynum/Gasol/Odom. Yes, I do believe they had the best front court in the nba.


Bynum sucked and odom was ok jameer was not has hurt as Bynum who could barely walk. An Lewis was an all star and a better player than odom at that time. The lakers didn't have some dominating front court odom and pau were good, like several others that all..

Bynum was not nearly himself and was confined to a role player, but could still give you not horrible production for 17 mpg. Jameer nelson was out the entire playoffs until the series with the lakers and posted a per of 4.9, a negative win share, and had a TS% of .384 (4 points and 3 assists per game on horrible efficiency and defense). Bynum at least was a big body providing length and defense (not his normal self but still solid defensively by the numbers). It isn't even close who did more for their team, Bynum easily.

Lewis was an all star but odom was just ok? Odom had better defense than lewis, and was a 3rd option not a second option. Not to mention in the post season odom had a higher per, TS%, and WS/48 than lewis while rebounding more with better defense. Sure he didn't score as much (only 3 points less per 36 min) but he was a more efficient scorer. All of this while being a 3rd option and lewis was a 2nd option. Regular season Lewis may have had better stats but we are talking post season when bynum is injured and odom had to do more. His post season numbers and defense were better than lewis all while being the 3rd option. To me the lakers frontcourt was just about as good as any they played in the playoffs that year, and that is all while having a top 1-3 player on the wing.


Kobe had the help of 1 good big. Pau was never dominant, so just stop with foolishness. He is not even a HOF'er based just on his play in the nba. What's not fair is you making that ridiculous claim that Kobe had those types of big. Gasol is nothing like their "type". Your comparing pau gasol to those guys and crying about fair points. You got to be kidding.

Those great giants lead the way. Just like Kobe and Jordan.

You not thinking "it's fair" doesn't change the facts. Only the giants and Jordan have reached Kobe's height's. That's not a coincidence, all really tall guys are the top players. Lol

I really don't know what you mean by all of this. Are you saying kobe and jordan are the only two small guys in the top 10 all time? Then sure I agree. If your saying they are the only two to win without "giants" then I think your wrong as Kobe has had a great frontcourt around him most of his career. He was the best player on those lakers teams I already admitted that, but he did have very good "giants" always helping him out as well. That is not a knock on him, but he hasn't won without a great big there as his sidekick like jordan did which I thought you were getting at (although as I said Jordan's teams were very stacked in other ways so it doesn't matter). Every star player needs support and Kobe's came with great front court help.


Further more even though Kobe "might" be the most help anyone has ever had. You went on and on making a big deal out of how shaq lead the way in another thread. So to suggest that it's not fair to say kobe's is the only non giant to reach such heights. Because he had gasol as help Rings hollow from you of all people.

Bottom line, yes every superstar even the big ones needed help to reach that level. But Kobe and Jordan or the only ones who did it without being big. An most likely will be for a long, long time. That says it all.

I don't remember the exact thread, but yes I do believe shaq was the clear cut best player in the league during those championship runs. Kobe was a great sidekick, but was clearly the second best player on that team to me. I don't feel this is outlandish and most people I have seen talk about it agree here. Gasol was the sidekick for kobe and even came right up to nearly matching his production in 2010. Like I said though Kobe was the best player on the lakers for the 2 championship runs. I haven't been arguing against that here.

amos1er
03-31-2013, 06:41 AM
Almost a triple double, 14 assists 9 boards and played the full 48 minutes. Just felt like you forgot something.

Good looking out. Nice to see a non Laker fan be objective!

jayjay33
03-31-2013, 10:18 AM
The best reg season front court Bynum miss half the damn season. An you got the never to complain about fair with the revisits crap?

For 50/82 games that season the lakers had a frontcourt of Bynum/Gasol/Odom. Yes, I do believe they had the best front court in the nba.


Bynum sucked and odom was ok jameer was not has hurt as Bynum who could barely walk. An Lewis was an all star and a better player than odom at that time. The lakers didn't have some dominating front court odom and pau were good, like several others that all..

Bynum was not nearly himself and was confined to a role player, but could still give you not horrible production for 17 mpg. Jameer nelson was out the entire playoffs until the series with the lakers and posted a per of 4.9, a negative win share, and had a TS% of .384 (4 points and 3 assists per game on horrible efficiency and defense). Bynum at least was a big body providing length and defense (not his normal self but still solid defensively by the numbers). It isn't even close who did more for their team, Bynum easily.

Lewis was an all star but odom was just ok? Odom had better defense than lewis, and was a 3rd option not a second option. Not to mention in the post season odom had a higher per, TS%, and WS/48 than lewis while rebounding more with better defense. Sure he didn't score as much (only 3 points less per 36 min) but he was a more efficient scorer. All of this while being a 3rd option and lewis was a 2nd option. Regular season Lewis may have had better stats but we are talking post season when bynum is injured and odom had to do more. His post season numbers and defense were better than lewis all while being the 3rd option. To me the lakers frontcourt was just about as good as any they played in the playoffs that year, and that is all while having a top 1-3 player on the wing.


Kobe had the help of 1 good big. Pau was never dominant, so just stop with foolishness. He is not even a HOF'er based just on his play in the nba. What's not fair is you making that ridiculous claim that Kobe had those types of big. Gasol is nothing like their "type". Your comparing pau gasol to those guys and crying about fair points. You got to be kidding.

Those great giants lead the way. Just like Kobe and Jordan.

You not thinking "it's fair" doesn't change the facts. Only the giants and Jordan have reached Kobe's height's. That's not a coincidence, all really tall guys are the top players. Lol

I really don't know what you mean by all of this. Are you saying kobe and jordan are the only two small guys in the top 10 all time? Then sure I agree. If your saying they are the only two to win without "giants" then I think your wrong as Kobe has had a great frontcourt around him most of his career. He was the best player on those lakers teams I already admitted that, but he did have very good "giants" always helping him out as well. That is not a knock on him, but he hasn't won without a great big there as his sidekick like jordan did which I thought you were getting at (although as I said Jordan's teams were very stacked in other ways so it doesn't matter). Every star player needs support and Kobe's came with great front court help.


Further more even though Kobe "might" be the most help anyone has ever had. You went on and on making a big deal out of how shaq lead the way in another thread. So to suggest that it's not fair to say kobe's is the only non giant to reach such heights. Because he had gasol as help Rings hollow from you of all people.

Bottom line, yes every superstar even the big ones needed help to reach that level. But Kobe and Jordan or the only ones who did it without being big. An most likely will be for a long, long time. That says it all.

I don't remember the exact thread, but yes I do believe shaq was the clear cut best player in the league during those championship runs. Kobe was a great sidekick, but was clearly the second best player on that team to me. I don't feel this is outlandish and most people I have seen talk about it agree here. Gasol was the sidekick for kobe and even came right up to nearly matching his production in 2010. Like I said though Kobe was the best player on the lakers for the 2 championship runs. I haven't been arguing against that here.


1. Lol, you just don't like admitting when your wrong do you. It started out the best (that was wrong), then it went down to best in the reg season (that was wrong to), Now it's down to the best for half the season (wtf is that). The facts are they were not the best front court. An you only believe they were because your ignoring half the season and the playoffs to suit your bias argument. The fact is Bynum didn't play half the season and when he came back he was just a body with fouls. Your "spinning" on this is really getting ridiculous.


2. Yes odom was ok, that 's what a good role player is, ok. You act like he was some kind of all star. Lewis was a multiple all star that's a fact. An Odom was a role player not an all star, that's also a fact. Also Odom was the 3rd best player yes, but not a 3rd option. He was a role player, a good one, but still a role player. Lewis was the better player. You bring up Bynum who barley played. An was just a body when he did. An you make odom out to be some kind of all star, but you have yet to mention gortat, who was certainly a better player than Bynum at the time. Lakers front court was good, Orlando's clearly was better.


3. I'm saying there the only small guys to be in the top 10 (maybe 20) and lead there teams to chips. It's all of it together. That's the "level of success" only the titans have reached. You keep making this irrelevant point that they had big guys on the team so what, every team has big guys on it. Lol, unless the bigs were the ones leading the team to the championship it's irrelevant.

At the top of the game, Jordan and Kobe stand alone among the titans and that's not by accident. It's because the only way to make up for the lack of size, is to basically be a basketball god.