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View Full Version : Do you think undercutting jump-shooters should be a flagrant foul?



Sadds The Gr8
03-14-2013, 01:29 AM
I'm far from a Laker or Kobe fan...definitely one of their biggest haters on the site so no this isn't bitterness. Just wondering if people think it should be a flagrant because many people think it is dirty and players are always furious when it happens to them. I know they can be accidental but even regular hard-fouls can be accidental and they still get called as flagrant fouls...so what do you think?

KniCks4LiFe
03-14-2013, 01:30 AM
Jalen Rose and Bruce Bowen needed to get the *** kicking of the lifetime for that crap.

hail2skins4life
03-14-2013, 01:33 AM
yes way too dangerous. That ******** practically just blew any hopes the Lakers had left for the season. You can easily contest a shot w/o undercutting the shooter

mightybosstone
03-14-2013, 01:38 AM
I don't think it should, because there's no way to prove whether or not it was intentional. How can you discern between a player trying to contest a shot who the shooter happens to land on top off versus a player deliberately trying to do this? You can't.

Also, for anyone *****ing about Kobe's incident tonight, I don't even recall his foot coming down on the defender. I think he just landed funny on the floor and he twisted his ankle. Was that a result of the defender coming up underneath him? Probably, but that type of injury happens all the time on jump shots and guys who land funny off of layups and dunks. You can't prevent it.

shep33
03-14-2013, 01:42 AM
Jones is dirty. He always has been, look at what he's done in the past. He does **** like this all the time.

Sadds The Gr8
03-14-2013, 01:42 AM
I don't think it should, because there's no way to prove whether or not it was intentional. How can you discern between a player trying to contest a shot who the shooter happens to land on top off versus a player deliberately trying to do this? You can't.

Also, for anyone *****ing about Kobe's incident tonight, I don't even recall his foot coming down on the defender. I think he just landed funny on the floor and he twisted his ankle. Was that a result of the defender coming up underneath him? Probably, but that type of injury happens all the time on jump shots and guys who land funny off of layups and dunks. You can't prevent it.
To me it'd be similar to the helmet to helmet thing in the NFL (I hate that penalty). Some guys don't mean to do it, but some do it on purpose.

It'd be tough sometimes to call flagrant fouls on guys for it because it can really be an accident, but those plays are dangerous. Not all hard fouls are done on purpose and they get called flagrants.

shep33
03-14-2013, 01:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6BWYMjTs3c

I'll try and find the video where he pushes Kobe while in the air with both hands. Dude is a dirty player. Not saying it would've changed the outcome of the game cause Kobe was pretty bad, but Jones has done this **** before.

mightybosstone
03-14-2013, 01:49 AM
To me it'd be similar to the helmet to helmet thing in the NFL (I hate that penalty). Some guys don't mean to do it, but some do it on purpose.

It'd be tough sometimes to call flagrant fouls on guys for it because it can really be an accident, but those plays are dangerous. Not all hard fouls are done on purpose and they get called flagrants.

But there's a difference in the NFL. You can always come back from a 15-yard penalty. But a flagrant foul is free throws AND possession. It's just giving an opposing team points on the board, and if it were at a key moment (like the game tonight), that could be completely detrimental to one team's chance to win. How can you take away a team's chance at a victory based on something you don't know was deliberate?

Flagrant fouls are intended for fouls that clearly are deliberate and have malicious intent. If you can't prove it's deliberate, it shouldn't be a flagrant. HOWEVER, I'm totally fine with players being fined or potentially suspended after the fact if NBA officials can carefully review each individual play and determine the intent of the defender. Tonight's play, for example, would probably warrant a fine, but not a suspension.

That's my take on it.

setman2000
03-14-2013, 01:53 AM
Funny, a few years ago Kobe was guarding Melo and I watched him PURPOSELY plant his foot right under where Melo was going to land while Melo was in the air. Melo came right down on Kobes foot and twisted his ankle and was hurt for the next few games. I watched it in slow motion over and over to see if he did it on purpose and their was no doubt about it. F Kobe - one of the dirtiest players in the NBA for years!!!

alexander_37
03-14-2013, 02:39 AM
And stupid **** like this ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpwqIQaGFmg

BULLSFAN0810
03-14-2013, 02:44 AM
i'm far from a laker or kobe fan...definitely one of their biggest haters on the site so no this isn't bitterness. Just wondering if people think it should be a flagrant because many people think it is dirty and players are always furious when it happens to them. I know they can be accidental but even regular hard-fouls can be accidental and they still get called as flagrant fouls...so what do you think?


im on the fence. It bogus to undercut,but what else is there to do but to close out tight ?

NFLNBA
03-14-2013, 02:58 AM
Its a NBA code not to do such acts. YOu contest the shot you dont shrink yourself and keep walking into and under a jump shooter. Why doesnt this happen a lot because players no its a big no no. If anyone else in here has played ball you understand. Jones is known as a very dirty player and has previous incidents liek this with Kobe. Just listen to Jalen Rose about doing that to players.

Anyway yes i believe it should be a flagrant 2 and ejection then if you do it again suspensions to come. I can go out and defend Lebron because its easy to know where he is gonna land on his jump shot, just plant yourself under him and take him out........its a disgrace. This def takes the Lakers out of playoff contention now. Kobe carrys that team.

LakersMaster24
03-14-2013, 03:03 AM
Yeah, by doing that you basically guarantee a twisted ankle for the shooter. Not good. Dirty.

Mr_Jones
03-14-2013, 03:10 AM
Funny, a few years ago Kobe was guarding Melo and I watched him PURPOSELY plant his foot right under where Melo was going to land while Melo was in the air. Melo came right down on Kobes foot and twisted his ankle and was hurt for the next few games. I watched it in slow motion over and over to see if he did it on purpose and their was no doubt about it. F Kobe - one of the dirtiest players in the NBA for years!!!

I saw Melo pull out a gun on this random guy in the crowd and threaten him if he did not cheer!
F Melo- one of the biggest thugs in the NBA for years!!!





..See how well that works out without any sources? :)

Supreme LA
03-14-2013, 03:46 AM
I can't say whether it should be a flagrant but any clear evidence showing intentions of undercutting a player deserves a fine for sure.

Anybody who is going to argue with me about this doesn't play basketball. We all know, at any level of basketball, if you go up for a shot, not to mention a fadaway shot, a defender should never slide his leg or hip under you to make contact.

This play seriously pisses me off. This guy has had a history of dirty plays against Kobe and he's been suspended for it once before with the leg trip in '09. I just hope the league becomes more aware of this issue the next time Dahntay is assigned to guard Kobe.

shep33
03-14-2013, 03:50 AM
I read somewhere that Jones was getting threats for what happened tonight. Honestly c'mon now people, I understand the frustration, heck I got a little frustrated, but you don't threaten someone over a game... especially when you personally didn't get hurt.

Didn't like the play from Jones, however, people are ridiculous for going at him with such anger. Yeesh.

Supreme LA
03-14-2013, 03:54 AM
I read somewhere that Jones was getting threats for what happened tonight. Honestly c'mon now people, I understand the frustration, heck I got a little frustrated, but you don't threaten someone over a game... especially when you personally didn't get hurt.

Didn't like the play from Jones, however, people are ridiculous for going at him with such anger. Yeesh.

He isn't receiving any threats. He's just being b*tched out by a lot of fans who were upset about the play. The guy clearly has a guilty conscience seeing as how much he is taking to twitter trying to defend his dirty play. He even had the audacity to say that it should have been an offensive foul on Kobe for kicking out his leg on a fadaway. REALLY????

I mean seriously, Kobe was freaking fading away out of bounds!!!!

odiz
03-14-2013, 04:24 AM
Wow i just saw the replay, that was really bad. Kobe had already raised up and was at the peak of his shot before Jones even moved forward. Jones doesnt even leap toward the ball instead he just lunges forward underneath Kobe. IMO thats obviously malicious and in an instance like that it should be a flagrant.

xILLN355
03-14-2013, 05:10 AM
And stupid **** like this ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpwqIQaGFmg

that didn't look intentional. manu simply went for the charge

John Walls Era
03-14-2013, 05:22 AM
Didn't look that dirty.

I couldn't help but laugh when they had Bruce Bowen analyzing this on ESPN.

amos1er
03-14-2013, 05:50 AM
Yes it should. Jones is a dirty piece of crap as are the henchmen of Stern who let crap like that go on night in and night out every game that Kobe plays. It's a travesty that a foul was not called on that play. The refs were horrible during that whole game putting Howard in foul trouble the entire game for some very ticky tack bs. Jones needs to be suspended for that play IMO, but of course he won't. **** YOU STERN FOR YOUR YEARS OF NO CALLS ON KOBE!!! NOW BECAUSE OF THIS, PLAYERS FELL LIKE THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH MURDER WHEN THEY GUARD KOBE!!! IF THIS WERE LEBRON, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A FLAGRANT 2 FOR SURE!!!

amos1er
03-14-2013, 05:51 AM
Wow i just saw the replay, that was really bad. Kobe had already raised up and was at the peak of his shot before Jones even moved forward. Jones doesnt even leap toward the ball instead he just lunges forward underneath Kobe. IMO thats obviously malicious and in an instance like that it should be a flagrant.

I agree.

amos1er
03-14-2013, 05:53 AM
I read somewhere that Jones was getting threats for what happened tonight. Honestly c'mon now people, I understand the frustration, heck I got a little frustrated, but you don't threaten someone over a game... especially when you personally didn't get hurt.

Didn't like the play from Jones, however, people are ridiculous for going at him with such anger. Yeesh.


This piece of crap not only cost the Lakers the game (had some help from the refs) he also might have cost them the season. This piece of **** doesn't deserve to be in the NBA!!!

setman2000
03-14-2013, 06:18 AM
Wow i just saw the replay, that was really bad. Kobe had already raised up and was at the peak of his shot before Jones even moved forward. Jones doesnt even leap toward the ball instead he just lunges forward underneath Kobe. IMO thats obviously malicious and in an instance like that it should be a flagrant.

...and I've seen Kobe do the EXACT SAME THING to Melo! Hey, remember when Sacramento was giving LA everything they could handle in the playoffs (around 2001) and Bibby was on Kobe at the top of the key. Kobe, holding the ball up by his face with both hands took his elbow right across Bibby's nose as hard as he could litterally putting Bibby in tears. Kobe should have been thrown out, nope, suspended for the next game, nope! What he did was no different than punching Bibby right in the face. I don't need a source for my examples - it's called my memory! Kobe is a whinig little B, dirty player and a rapist. You Kobe apologists are pathetic.

setman2000
03-14-2013, 06:20 AM
this piece of crap not only cost the lakers the game (had some help from the refs) he also might have cost them the season. This piece of **** doesn't deserve to be in the nba!!!

whhhaaaaaaaaaaa:crying:

setman2000
03-14-2013, 06:35 AM
Here's a nice video of some of Kobes greatest "Hits!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgkN0-bLrus

...and this story about what Kobe did to.......Dahnty Jones!

During Game Two of the Western Conference Finals—which this writer happens to think the Nuggets will win in six—a particular play sticks out as being yet another in a long line of dirty plays that goes completely without comment.

Everyone always talks about how dirty guys like Bill Laimbeer or Bruce Bowen or Robert Horry are/were. There are certainly parties who say the same about Bryant, but his skill set is such that it largely overshadows his pervasive filthiness.

Case in point: On a Carmelo Anthony miss from 26 feet, Bryant violently pushed Dahntay Jones with two hands from behind to throw Jones out of bounds and get the rebound. He turned, dribbled, and fed the breaking Trevor Ariza down court for a lay-up to go up 70-64 with 5:09 to go in the third.

On the push, Jones went flying out of bounds, out of control. When Mike Breen & Co. were breaking down the play in replay, not one person—not Mike Breen, not Jeff Van Gundy, not Mark Jackson—mentioned the fact that Kobe committed the loose ball foul.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/181062-kobe-bryant-dirty-player-or-dirtiest-player

Seriously, this is too easy - F Kobe, he deserves everything he gets. GO NUGGETS!

t_money25
03-14-2013, 08:32 AM
Here's a nice video of some of Kobes greatest "Hits!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgkN0-bLrus

...and this story about what Kobe did to.......Dahnty Jones!

During Game Two of the Western Conference Finals—which this writer happens to think the Nuggets will win in six—a particular play sticks out as being yet another in a long line of dirty plays that goes completely without comment.

Everyone always talks about how dirty guys like Bill Laimbeer or Bruce Bowen or Robert Horry are/were. There are certainly parties who say the same about Bryant, but his skill set is such that it largely overshadows his pervasive filthiness.

Case in point: On a Carmelo Anthony miss from 26 feet, Bryant violently pushed Dahntay Jones with two hands from behind to throw Jones out of bounds and get the rebound. He turned, dribbled, and fed the breaking Trevor Ariza down court for a lay-up to go up 70-64 with 5:09 to go in the third.

On the push, Jones went flying out of bounds, out of control. When Mike Breen & Co. were breaking down the play in replay, not one person—not Mike Breen, not Jeff Van Gundy, not Mark Jackson—mentioned the fact that Kobe committed the loose ball foul.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/181062-kobe-bryant-dirty-player-or-dirtiest-player

Seriously, this is too easy - F Kobe, he deserves everything he gets. GO NUGGETS!

Great video. Good article. Completely supports everything you e said in this thread.

As for the play last night, I don't think it was dirty nor intentional. Dantay Jones played good defense. Kobe faded away and Dantay Jones closed the gap like he's coached to. I mean what is he supposed to do? Just let Kobe shoot a wide open jumper to win the game? It's just unfortunate for Kobe that he landed awkwardly.

JiffyMix88
03-14-2013, 09:04 AM
Flagrant 1?!?!? This board is so flip floppy its hilarious. Already enough fans on here who say the NBA protects its stars and how they are sick of it and now you guys want to give players flagrant fouls when they are actually making a defensive effort?

FOOK NO YOU GUYS SUCK!

Heatcheck
03-14-2013, 09:21 AM
Yes it should. Jones is a dirty piece of crap as are the henchmen of Stern who let crap like that go on night in and night out every game that Kobe plays. It's a travesty that a foul was not called on that play. The refs were horrible during that whole game putting Howard in foul trouble the entire game for some very ticky tack bs. Jones needs to be suspended for that play IMO, but of course he won't. **** YOU STERN FOR YOUR YEARS OF NO CALLS ON KOBE!!! NOW BECAUSE OF THIS, PLAYERS FELL LIKE THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH MURDER WHEN THEY GUARD KOBE!!! IF THIS WERE LEBRON, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A FLAGRANT 2 FOR SURE!!!


Very few people shoot as many free throws as Kobe Bryant, VERY few, and Lebron is not one of them

kdspurman
03-14-2013, 09:26 AM
And stupid **** like this ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpwqIQaGFmg

Manu probably shouldn't have stood there, being that you probably won't get a charge from that far out. but that was not dirty or intentional.

R. Johnson#3
03-14-2013, 09:46 AM
It should be a bloody ejection. There's no excuse to land with your feet under a jump shooter. The shooter is completely helpless to defend himself against it and as a defender, it is very easy to keep your feet out from under the shooter. There's no excuse for it and it shouldn't be tolerated.

ManRam
03-14-2013, 10:06 AM
amos1er, I don't know why I'm gonna attempt to reason with you...but whatever.


Can you explain to me why the league would rig things AGAINST the Lakers? Explain to me why they would ever want to keep the Lakers missing the playoffs, or even Kobe missing games. Thanks.


This was absolutely a foul. I'm still on the fence as to how premeditated the intent was. At first it looked like it was just a natural landing (on a jump that I think was a reasonable contest, but some don't)...but he does clearly move his leg ever so slightly. He clearly moved into him though, and that shouldn't be allowed and has to be called. I think the problem just came from him turning his body to look at the shot. If it was anyone but Dahntay I wouldn't say there was intent, but because it is...well...there might have been.


Hopefully he's alright. I wanna see the Lakers make the playoffs...and that's gonna be impossible without him. I don't think he'll be out long though.

torocan
03-14-2013, 10:11 AM
IF you could prove it was intentional, sure.

However, good luck with that. Playing close defense, foot in the wrong place, or intentional undercutting is hard as heck to prove unless the guy is literally sticking his foot in from the side or something.

Sucks for Kobe and the Lakers, but dirty plays have been in the game as long as unfortunate accidents. There's just not much that they can do unless it's blatantly obvious.

SluggeR
03-14-2013, 10:15 AM
The league won't change the way they officiate this issue, until someone steps under Lebron; causing him to blow out his knee or something..

ManRam
03-14-2013, 10:20 AM
This stuff does happen all the time though...it's just that people only get injured off of it less than probably 1% of the time. Hell, Thad Young tried tripping LeBron when he went up for a block last night, which is probably more obvious of a dirty play, but LeBron wasn't hurt so no one cares.



Also, Kobe did a nice little leg kick there that I don't think is worth ignoring. That certainly played into it as well.

It sucks that he landed like he did. A foul should have absolutely been called, but I'm not going head hunting for Jones here.

kdspurman
03-14-2013, 10:29 AM
This stuff does happen all the time though...it's just that people only get injured off of it less than probably 1% of the time. Hell, Thad Young tried tripping LeBron when he went up for a block last night, which is probably more obvious of a dirty play, but LeBron wasn't hurt so no one cares.



Also, Kobe did a nice little leg kick there that I don't think is worth ignoring. That certainly played into it as well.

It sucks that he landed like he did. A foul should have absolutely been called, but I'm not going head hunting for Jones here.

I was just going to mention that... The leg kick and sort of spreading them wide, probably in attempt to draw a foul I think played a factor in this whole scenario.

shep33
03-14-2013, 10:46 AM
He's had a few really iffy plays in the past on Kobe. Thats what got me upset. Whatever though. Hope Kobe is okay. I don't think Jones tried to injure him on purpose but I do think it's a dangerous play.

pd1dish
03-14-2013, 10:48 AM
no because when you are closing out a shooter, you are supposed to get up in in their face like that and create as little space as possible. whether Jones did it on purpose or not, it cant be called a flagrant. its just like sliding under someone to take a charge. yes, it is a dangerous play, especially if the defender gets there late, but thats when you get called for a blocking foul...not a flagrant.

a foul SHOULD be called, but not a flagrant.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2013, 11:18 AM
I don't think it should, because there's no way to prove whether or not it was intentional. How can you discern between a player trying to contest a shot who the shooter happens to land on top off versus a player deliberately trying to do this? You can't.

Also, for anyone *****ing about Kobe's incident tonight, I don't even recall his foot coming down on the defender. I think he just landed funny on the floor and he twisted his ankle. Was that a result of the defender coming up underneath him? Probably, but that type of injury happens all the time on jump shots and guys who land funny off of layups and dunks. You can't prevent it.

exactly this.

Kuya_Clive
03-14-2013, 11:45 AM
This piece of crap not only cost the Lakers the game (had some help from the refs) he also might have cost them the season. This piece of **** doesn't deserve to be in the NBA!!!

Lol

Stinkyoutsider
03-14-2013, 12:30 PM
I don't think they should call a flagrant but it absolutely should be a fine/suspension. Some guys just do it on accident but taking out a guy's ability to land after shooting is one of the dirtiest things you can do in the game and it should be punished no matter if it was an accident or on purpose.

Maybe use the same fine/suspension plan the NBA has used on flopping but with bigger consequences.

Kobe and Jones have history so I would take that into account this time. They've had some battles? Some clean and competitive, some dirty.

I just know this. Hearing Kobe in the interview after it happened, if I was Jones, I would make sure I hit the gym hard during the offseason. A typical player might forgive and forget if they don't play against each other for the rest of the year but not Kobe. Next time Bryant plays him, I wouldn't be surprised if he went for 50 on him...

I Rock Shaqs
03-14-2013, 12:33 PM
I've done it to people on complete accident a couple times and I'm pretty sure other people have done it to me on complete accident, like if you trip over somebody even know they didn't mean to trip you they shouldn't get a flagrant foul for that too.

Oh nvm this is just another Kobe thread, I forgot about that.

ManRam
03-14-2013, 12:52 PM
I don't think they should call a flagrant but it absolutely should be a fine/suspension. Some guys just do it on accident but taking out a guy's ability to land after shooting is one of the dirtiest things you can do in the game and it should be punished no matter if it was an accident or on purpose.

Maybe use the same fine/suspension plan the NBA has used on flopping but with bigger consequences.

Kobe and Jones have history so I would take that into account this time. They've had some battles? Some clean and competitive, some dirty.

I just know this. Hearing Kobe in the interview after it happened, if I was Jones, I would make sure I hit the gym hard during the offseason. A typical player might forgive and forget if they don't play against each other for the rest of the year but not Kobe. Next time Bryant plays him, I wouldn't be surprised if he went for 50 on him...

Fine a guy for a normal/non-flagrant foul?

That makes no sense.

mightybosstone
03-14-2013, 02:37 PM
This piece of crap not only cost the Lakers the game (had some help from the refs) he also might have cost them the season. This piece of **** doesn't deserve to be in the NBA!!!

Your takes are so awful, you've joined my "guys whose posts I automatically assume are going to be mind-numbingly stupid" list. Congratulations on joining this truly elite group of idiots!

SouthSideRookie
03-14-2013, 02:44 PM
I saw Melo pull out a gun on this random guy in the crowd and threaten him if he did not cheer!
F Melo- one of the biggest thugs in the NBA for years!!!





..See how well that works out without any sources? :)
Here's some more in case you're not convinced yet:
http://youtu.be/AUxsK_2imYI


that didn't look intentional. manu simply went for the charge
Yeah trying to draw a charge on a halfcourt prayer right before the half in a regular season game, makes a lot of sense. Aaron Brooks career was ruined from that dirty play.


Manu probably shouldn't have stood there, being that you probably won't get a charge from that far out. but that was not dirty or intentional.

Im sure Bruce Bowen, another clown like Manu, could do no wrong in your eyes smh

mdm692
03-14-2013, 02:53 PM
Here's a nice video of some of Kobes greatest "Hits!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgkN0-bLrus

...and this story about what Kobe did to.......Dahnty Jones!

During Game Two of the Western Conference Finals—which this writer happens to think the Nuggets will win in six—a particular play sticks out as being yet another in a long line of dirty plays that goes completely without comment.

Everyone always talks about how dirty guys like Bill Laimbeer or Bruce Bowen or Robert Horry are/were. There are certainly parties who say the same about Bryant, but his skill set is such that it largely overshadows his pervasive filthiness.

Case in point: On a Carmelo Anthony miss from 26 feet, Bryant violently pushed Dahntay Jones with two hands from behind to throw Jones out of bounds and get the rebound. He turned, dribbled, and fed the breaking Trevor Ariza down court for a lay-up to go up 70-64 with 5:09 to go in the third.

On the push, Jones went flying out of bounds, out of control. When Mike Breen & Co. were breaking down the play in replay, not one person—not Mike Breen, not Jeff Van Gundy, not Mark Jackson—mentioned the fact that Kobe committed the loose ball foul.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/181062-kobe-bryant-dirty-player-or-dirtiest-player

Seriously, this is too easy - F Kobe, he deserves everything he gets. GO NUGGETS!

Watch every single Lakers fan look the other way.

Money_23
03-14-2013, 02:57 PM
right, so causing an injury to a player is the same as a simple uncalled foul... :laugh2:

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-14-2013, 03:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6BWYMjTs3c

I'll try and find the video where he pushes Kobe while in the air with both hands. Dude is a dirty player. Not saying it would've changed the outcome of the game cause Kobe was pretty bad, but Jones has done this **** before.

Yeah! **** the piece of ****!

Mr_Jones
03-14-2013, 03:16 PM
Here's some more in case you're not convinced yet:
http://youtu.be/AUxsK_2imYI

Wow, thanks for sending me a video on something that has nothing to do with what I was mentioning! Really helpful.

Why not send me a video of kittens playing with puppies next time? That'll be just as useful, if not more, simply because they're adorable. Let's get more irrelevant to the topic next time, bud.

Mr_Jones
03-14-2013, 03:18 PM
Watch every single Lakers fan look the other way.

SHOW US A VIDEO. It's really not that hard. "Violently" is such a subjective term to use for anything. Love how you think you've just discovered the bodies from Roswell or something. Nothing more than an article suggesting something without showing video-proof. If you can find that, then maybe I'll agree. But until then, no.

mdm692
03-14-2013, 03:29 PM
SHOW US A VIDEO. It's really not that hard. "Violently" is such a subjective term to use for anything. Love how you think you've just discovered the bodies from Roswell or something. Nothing more than an article suggesting something without showing video-proof. If you can find that, then maybe I'll agree. But until then, no.

I was just stating the obvious. That post was posted about 2-3 pages back and everybody looked the other way and turned this thread about "under cutting jump shooters" into a "**** Danhthay Jones, he's a dirty player" thread.

mightybosstone
03-14-2013, 03:31 PM
SHOW US A VIDEO. It's really not that hard. "Violently" is such a subjective term to use for anything. Love how you think you've just discovered the bodies from Roswell or something. Nothing more than an article suggesting something without showing video-proof. If you can find that, then maybe I'll agree. But until then, no.

Proof of what? Bryant being a dirty player? There is plenty of video evidence shown in this thread to support that claim. The guy throws elbows all the time. I'll never forget the elbow he threw to Artest's throat in the 2009 playoffs which got Artest ejected.

I'm not knocking the guy for it. This is a physical league, and the occasional dirty play is required to keep an opposing team or player in check. I'm not saying Kobe's the dirtiest player in the league by any means, but let's not call him a saint either. He's has as many dirty plays over the course of his career as anybody, and for him to call someone else dirty is certainly a little hypocritical.

Mr_Jones
03-14-2013, 03:38 PM
Proof of what? Bryant being a dirty player? There is plenty of video evidence shown in this thread to support that claim. The guy throws elbows all the time. I'll never forget the elbow he threw to Artest's throat in the 2009 playoffs which got Artest ejected.

I'm not knocking the guy for it. This is a physical league, and the occasional dirty play is required to keep an opposing team or player in check. I'm not saying Kobe's the dirtiest player in the league by any means, but let's not call him a saint either. He's has as many dirty plays over the course of his career as anybody, and for him to call someone else dirty is certainly a little hypocritical.

The video of what was highlighted, and what I responded to. That has nothing to do with Kobe being a dirty player. I am speaking on what you highlighted, the incident that was said would make Laker fans, "Look the other way". I am not defending Kobe on accounts of being a "dirty player", I am defending him in the occasions that he said would make LA fans look away. Find the video of him pushing him, and we can move from there. But articles have subjective terms in them all the time, so why is what was highlighted all of a sudden a huge revelation?

SteBO
03-14-2013, 03:38 PM
I'm not for that. The defender is suppose to lunge at the player and contest the shot....the shooter is leaving himself vulnerable anyway. I honestly don't think this is as big an issue as many are making it.

jiggin
03-14-2013, 03:41 PM
it should be a foul at the very least. If the foul was called, it probably would help deter it from happening as often.

Supreme LA
03-14-2013, 06:44 PM
Proof of what? Bryant being a dirty player? There is plenty of video evidence shown in this thread to support that claim. The guy throws elbows all the time. I'll never forget the elbow he threw to Artest's throat in the 2009 playoffs which got Artest ejected.

I'm not knocking the guy for it. This is a physical league, and the occasional dirty play is required to keep an opposing team or player in check. I'm not saying Kobe's the dirtiest player in the league by any means, but let's not call him a saint either. He's has as many dirty plays over the course of his career as anybody, and for him to call someone else dirty is certainly a little hypocritical.

Except that Kobe never called Dahntay a "dirty" player you troll. All Kobe said was that the league should make players more aware of how dangerous it is to step under a player coming down from a shot.

Troll.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-14-2013, 06:53 PM
Except that Kobe never called Dahntay a "dirty" player you troll. All Kobe said was that the league should make players more aware of how dangerous it is to step under a player coming down from a shot.

Troll.

Mighty is a terrible poster, don't listen to the guy.

nickdymez
03-14-2013, 07:03 PM
I'm not for that. The defender is suppose to lunge at the player and contest the shot....the shooter is leaving himself vulnerable anyway. I honestly don't think this is as big an issue as many are making it.

Until it happens to Lebron

Jimmer55
03-14-2013, 07:03 PM
ABSOLUTELY. You can ruin a career with that bush league CRAP. Jones is a DIRTY player and should be suspended for as long as Kobe is out. Look what the PUNK did to Hansborough.

mightybosstone
03-14-2013, 07:07 PM
Except that Kobe never called Dahntay a "dirty" player you troll. All Kobe said was that the league should make players more aware of how dangerous it is to step under a player coming down from a shot.

Troll.

Lol. So because my opinion differs from yours, and I'm being completely level headed, I'm a troll? Kobe did not use the word "dirty," but he certainly insinuated it in the locker room after the game based on the way he acted. Considering how many elbows he's thrown and dirty plays he's been involved in, for him to complain that the league needs to protect its players is a little hypocritical. That's merely the point I'm trying to make.

mightybosstone
03-14-2013, 07:11 PM
Mighty is a terrible poster, don't listen to the guy.

:laugh:
:laugh::laugh:
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
You've been on this site for all of three months and I can already tell you're one of the worst NBA posters. Why don't you stick to the Lakers forum where people agree with you and you won't come off as such an idiot?

JasonJohnHorn
03-14-2013, 07:23 PM
I say yes. It is dangerous and can cause injury. Safety should be the first priority of any work place, so if something is a high risk for injury the league should take it seriously. Players no not to do that. It is never called for.

KnicksorBust
03-14-2013, 07:44 PM
Definately a flagrant. If the defender puts his foot underneath the shooter it should be a suspension as well.

D-Leethal
03-14-2013, 08:00 PM
It fits under the definition of the rule as 'unnecessary'. Its tough to prove its intentional and I think it makes it awfully tough for defenders to contest the 3 ball without just letting guys shoot right over them in rhythm. Its definitely a dangerous play and needs to be looked into. Not sure flagrant is the right call though.

Sactown
03-14-2013, 08:05 PM
Eh accidents happen, so no, but if a player keeps undercutting players routinely, than the official should get him a flagrant and the league should look into suspension.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-14-2013, 08:10 PM
:laugh:
:laugh::laugh:
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
You've been on this site for all of three months and I can already tell you're one of the worst NBA posters. Why don't you stick to the Lakers forum where people agree with you and you won't come off as such an idiot?

I'm an awful poster to you and your buddies because I don't ride Lebrons sac. Just let me debates with the bigs boys on here while you watch like usual.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-14-2013, 08:12 PM
I say yes. It is dangerous and can cause injury. Safety should be the first priority of any work place, so if something is a high risk for injury the league should take it seriously. Players no not to do that. It is never called for.
Whos the girl in your sig?

Definately a flagrant. If the defender puts his foot underneath the shooter it should be a suspension as well.
Yup, Most people on her have never played basketball, it's hard for them to understand how bad you can hurt someone buy doing this.

Chronz
03-14-2013, 08:42 PM
If you injure a player doing this, you should be suspended without pay until they return to play.

QueensG_718
03-14-2013, 08:49 PM
That wasnt even blatant. Jones played good nba defense in my opinion. Laker fans just looking for an excuse to cry about.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-14-2013, 09:01 PM
That wasnt even blatant. Jones played good nba defense in my opinion. Laker fans just looking for an excuse to cry about.

You have to have played more basketball than just playing with your brother in your backyard to realise what he did.

D-Leethal
03-14-2013, 09:04 PM
You have to have played more basketball than just playing with your brother in your backyard to realise what he did.

LOL, your getting nowhere with this dude, just give it up, you sound ********.

TopsyTurvy
03-14-2013, 09:06 PM
Stepping under a shooter is a foul in the league, and should have been called on that play. That Kobe came down and rolled his ankle, an injury as incidental as contesting a shot and cracking the opponent in the eye with an elbow or a defender rolling his ankle coming down with a contested rebound.

Regardless of the intent and, to a lesser degree, the outcome of the play - the rules simply weren't enforced. Kobe should have been shooting free throws or a sub should have been shooting them for him. That Kobe got injured an unfortunate outcome of an illegal play.

Is the play dangerous? Of course, but no more so than any time a player leaves the ground.

D-Leethal
03-14-2013, 09:06 PM
I think you could have a similar rule to the flopping rule where you review it after the fact to determine if its intentional and hand out fines and suspensions after review.

Its very difficult to tell if its intentional or accidental in real-time, so you can't really put the onus on the refs to make that call. A lot of the time the shooter well kick his legs off balance and not land in perfect shoulder-distance stance. Its a play that a huge chunk of the time IS an accident.

D-Leethal
03-14-2013, 09:06 PM
Stepping under a shooter is a foul in the league, and should have been called on that play. That Kobe came down and rolled his ankle is as incidental as contesting a shot and cracking the opponent in the eye with an elbow or a defender rolling his ankle coming down with a contested rebound.

Regardless of the intent and, to a lesser degree, the outcome of the play - the rules simply weren't enforced. Kobe should have been shooting free throws or a sub should have been shooting them for him.

Is the play dangerous? Of course, but no more so than any time any player leaves the ground.

Well said.

amos1er
03-14-2013, 09:29 PM
amos1er, I don't know why I'm gonna attempt to reason with you...but whatever.


Can you explain to me why the league would rig things AGAINST the Lakers? Explain to me why they would ever want to keep the Lakers missing the playoffs, or even Kobe missing games. Thanks.


This was absolutely a foul. I'm still on the fence as to how premeditated the intent was. At first it looked like it was just a natural landing (on a jump that I think was a reasonable contest, but some don't)...but he does clearly move his leg ever so slightly. He clearly moved into him though, and that shouldn't be allowed and has to be called. I think the problem just came from him turning his body to look at the shot. If it was anyone but Dahntay I wouldn't say there was intent, but because it is...well...there might have been.


Hopefully he's alright. I wanna see the Lakers make the playoffs...and that's gonna be impossible without him. I don't think he'll be out long though.

Thank you for at least admitting it was a foul. Believe it or not, there are those on here who will deny even that. Anyways, I don't think that the refs meant for Kobe to get injured, I'm just saying that compared to the other elite superstars, he does not get as good a treatment from the refs...this has been going on for years now. Does he complain too much to the refs? Yes, and that could have something to do with why he doesn't get his due. All I'm saying is that the refs need to do a better job when it comes to protecting NBA players from unnecessary injuries, despite personal vendettas with certain players.

amos1er
03-14-2013, 09:32 PM
If you injure a player doing this, you should be suspended without pay until they return to play.

I agree.

Chronz isn't even a Laker fan and he can admit that play was dirty. To those of you who deny this...I really feel that there is no hope for any of you.

setman2000
03-14-2013, 09:36 PM
I'm an awful poster to you and your buddies because I don't ride Lebrons sac. Just let me debates with the bigs boys on here while you watch like usual.

No, u just suck on Kobe's sac. Do u tickle his taint while your at it? I PLAYED BASKETBALL ONCE SO ONLY I KNOW EVERYTHING! Seriously, you sound like a d-bag idiot.

alexander_37
03-14-2013, 09:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgkN0-bLrus&feature=player_detailpage#t=178s
That should be a lifetime ban ... :pity:

QueensG_718
03-14-2013, 09:55 PM
You have to have played more basketball than just playing with your brother in your backyard to realise what he did.

LOL, your getting nowhere with this dude, just give it up, you sound ********.

D leeth your saying i sound ******** or illusionist? Lol I honestly saw nothing wrong with that play and im not being biased. I would have thought the same thing if it happen to melo. He just so happened to land on his foot. Its kobe you have to play crazy tight d on him. Hes a leethal midrange shooter. That play was done with no malice.

mightybosstone
03-14-2013, 10:49 PM
I'm an awful poster to you and your buddies because I don't ride Lebrons sac. Just let me debates with the bigs boys on here while you watch like usual.

Awful grammar aside, I hardly "ride Lebron's sack." I'm not a Heat fan, but I can appreciate how good the guy is, unlike most idiotic Kobephiles. The only reason you think I'm an awful poster is because I don't like the Lakers and I have a realistic view of Kobe's legacy and of his current skill. The NBA forum in general has become entirely split between Kobe and Lebron, and it's annoying as ****. If all the complete homer Laker fans on this site would just take an objective viewpoint of the league, it would be a lot more enjoyable for everyone.

Cracka2HI!
03-14-2013, 10:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgkN0-bLrus&feature=player_detailpage#t=178s
That should be a lifetime ban ... :pity:

This! The elbow on Mike Miller is the dirtiest play I've ever seen. He could have killed him.

LakerPride
03-15-2013, 06:06 AM
wow a lot of people still dont know that undercutting a player is a flagrant foul 2

sventhedog
03-15-2013, 07:51 AM
This! The elbow on Mike Miller is the dirtiest play I've ever seen. He could have killed him.

oh my god! why is he not in jail? lol.

king4day
03-15-2013, 12:17 PM
Only if they can prove it was intentional. Just like they can review plays after a game is over and add a flagrant and so forth.
IMO, this wasn't intentional. He got under him for sure but if you think it was intentional, I'd love to know what you are seeing that shows it.
Looking at his body motion and facial reactions is enough. Hearing him on ESPN too. The guy simply doesn't have this type of reputation.
And scratch his push in '09. That's almost 4 years ago and a lot has changed since then.

JiffyMix88
03-15-2013, 12:46 PM
:crying: