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View Full Version : Opinion: Dwight Howard is not and never was a Superstar



Randy Moss84
03-13-2013, 10:32 AM
I never really understood the argument for dwight howard being a superstar, he essentially is the carmelo anthony of big men, except that unlike melo, dwight makes his teammates better and helps get them easy looks.

before i continue this, let me preface this by saying that i believe dwight howard is the best center in the nba, and is an ELITE player, but not a Superstar

dwight howard, for the majority of his career has been a great rebounder, shot blocker, and a solid scoring center, without qiestion he is elite at his position, but in terms of being a superstar? he has no argument, he got past the first round a few times, but only reached the conference finals twice, got to the finals the year kg was out, then proceeded to get smacked by the celtics the next time they faced in the playoffs, and overall, howard doesnt raise his game in the playoffs with career averages of 19 pts and 14 boards

he has proven to be incapable of carrying his team or stepping up his offensive game come playoff time, and virtually has been the same player whether its regular season or playoff time

he does not have that second level, he doesnt rise to the occasion, and outside of the 6 playoff games he played in 2011, he only averaged over 20 ppg in the playoffs twice in his career

superstars are players who not only have nearly complete all around games, make their team mates better, but also, have that next level when it matters

my my ranking, howard is in that same bubble that carmelo anthony and kevin love are, players that are Elite, but for different reasons, each player cannot legitimately be considered a superstar

realistically, there are probably 5 or less superstars in todays NBA

dwight howard gets wayyy too much credit in this department, he is without question elite at his position, a top 10 nba player, but does in no way deserve superstar consideration, dwight howard is nothing more than an Elite High Level Allstar and not a superstar

Guppyfighter
03-13-2013, 10:32 AM
Wrong. And this semantics game is ********.

Chitownhero1992
03-13-2013, 10:55 AM
That is really hard to say, superstar no, star...yes. He is a star, he deserves his all-star ranks, he's played extremely well and deserves a chance at winning. However he is not of superstar ranks yet, if he could lead a team to multiple championships then yes he could reach superstar but until that he is more of a star.

CB29
03-13-2013, 10:56 AM
He took an average team to the nba finals. He's the best overall center in the league today. Freak athletically. He's a top 5 player in the nba when healthy which he is not currently. Definitely a superstar however you phrase it. Does he play like it always? No, but he has the skillset to be one and there's no team that he doesn't start for in the nba.

NYCkid12
03-13-2013, 11:17 AM
wrong

and LOL at putting Kevin Love in Dwight's class....rediculous

Anyways, the main thing people don't bring up more is that when he's healthy he is the most dominant defender in the league by far..he changes shots, blocks, rebounds and just being in the paint alters gameplans

He might not bring his game up to another level offensively but in Orlando during the playoffs Defensively he was unreal during a lot of those playoff runs...look at Orlando now that he's gone, there one of the two worst teams in the league

I'm not a fan of Dwight anymore, but a lot of people forget how dominant he was before this injury season

Swashcuff
03-13-2013, 11:17 AM
Everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess. As idiotic as it may seem :shrug:

This simplistic one side of the ball thinking really waters down the NBA. By the notion of Dwight not being a superstar because of his inability to score over 20 ppg in the post season Bill Russell should not be a superstar either. He too only did so on 2 occasions.

GREATNESS ONE
03-13-2013, 11:19 AM
Fail.


Top 10 players in the NBA are Super-stars

Go_NUGGETS
03-13-2013, 11:21 AM
Javale Mcgee has owned him everytime they have went head2head....Javale >>> Dwight

Randy Moss84
03-13-2013, 11:22 AM
Fail.


Top 10 players in the NBA are Super-stars

Lmao, thanks, needed a good laugh

ManRam
03-13-2013, 11:26 AM
Absolutely positively not correct.


Everyone already forgets Orlando? Undeniable top-3 or 5 player in the league for a good portion of his time there.

Swashcuff
03-13-2013, 11:27 AM
Lmao, thanks, needed a good laugh

This thread is a good laugh.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-13-2013, 11:30 AM
I had to call the national mental hospital hotline to make sure no patient was missing, phew. You might need to check into one and then reassess your thread.

Plus 1. You're still my sig tho. lol

strahan92osi72
03-13-2013, 11:30 AM
Dwight has no offense outside of 5 feet from the basket and is a liability from the FT line, he will literally shoot you out of a game from the line. Plus, he's a diva and has so much to say, can negatively affect any team he goes to the moment one little thing doesn't go his way. Way too much baggage to be considered a superstar. So in my eyes, no way.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-13-2013, 11:31 AM
Javale Mcgee has owned him everytime they have went head2head....Javale >>> Dwight

I actually think this kid is serious :laugh:

HouRealCoach
03-13-2013, 11:33 AM
Dwight Howard is still the best bigman right now, & yes he is a superstar

jchase3
03-13-2013, 11:34 AM
RandyMoss84 must be a Heat or Magic fan... hater

ManRam
03-13-2013, 11:34 AM
I just don't get how anyone can reasonably tell me that in 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 he wasn't a "super star" and a top 5 player in the league. 08-09 he was the 3rd best player in the league as far as I'm concerned.

His offensive woes are overblown. He's not Shaq out there, but his later years in Orlando he was an absolute force. I was incredibly hard on him before those two years because he truly didn't have an offensive game, but he made big strides those years, and defensively no one was half as impactful as he was.

D12 fan
03-13-2013, 11:38 AM
Haters Gonna Hate!


:dance::dance::dance:

D12 fan
03-13-2013, 11:39 AM
OP is definitely a butthurt Magic fan who is mad Dwight dominated them last night.

ManRam
03-13-2013, 11:42 AM
OP is definitely a butthurt Magic fan who is mad Dwight dominated them last night.

1. He's not
2. I might fit that criteria
3. I disagree with him

LongIslandIcedZ
03-13-2013, 11:45 AM
Superstar is a subjective term, there is no fact to back up what a superstar is.

In my opinion there are two superstars in the NBA:

Lebron
Kobe

There are a few superstars who are climbing the mountain but arent there yet:

Durant
Blake
CP3

Being a superstar IMO has as much to do with off the court as on.

NYCkid12
03-13-2013, 11:48 AM
Superstar is a subjective term, there is no fact to back up what a superstar is.

In my opinion there are two superstars in the NBA:

Lebron
Kobe

There are a few superstars who are climbing the mountain but arent there yet:

Durant
Blake
CP3

Being a superstar IMO has as much to do with off the court as on.

LOLOL Blake is closer to being a superstar than Dwight Howard???

That might be the stupidest thing I ever heard

Swashcuff
03-13-2013, 11:50 AM
Dwight has no offense outside of 5 feet from the basket and is a liability from the FT line, he will literally shoot you out of a game from the line. Plus, he's a diva and has so much to say, can negatively affect any team he goes to the moment one little thing doesn't go his way. Way too much baggage to be considered a superstar. So in my eyes, no way.

And from 5 feet in there is no better player in the NBA. Reason why he's finished in the top 10 in FG% every season of his career and is currently 5th all time in that regard.

ManRam
03-13-2013, 11:54 AM
Superstar is a subjective term, there is no fact to back up what a superstar is.

In my opinion there are two superstars in the NBA:

Lebron
Kobe

There are a few superstars who are climbing the mountain but arent there yet:

Durant
Blake
CP3

Being a superstar IMO has as much to do with off the court as on.

Dwight used to make 15-20 million a year off of endorsement deals. McDonalds and Coca-Cola recently decided to not extend him, but again, when he was a top 3-5 player he was marketed as one as well. He might be a "super star" now, but the off-the-court argument doesn't work with him if we're talking "ever".

Current off-the-court earnings, per Forbes.

LeBron: 40 million
Kobe: 32 million
Rose: 16 million
Wade: 13 million
KD: 13 million
Melo: 9 million

Blake I'd imagine is somewhere below Kobe...he didn't make the list because Forbes only did a top-10 list of total earners, and he doesn't make a ton for playing basketball. He's got Kia, Subway, AT&T Vizio...and a new Nike contract.

strahan92osi72
03-13-2013, 11:59 AM
And from 5 feet in there is no better player in the NBA. Reason why he's finished in the top 10 in FG% every season of his career and is currently 5th all time in that regard.

You're gonna throw FG% at me, seriously? Tyson Chandler's got a better FG% the last 3 years. You really want to use that stat as your argument?

Swashcuff
03-13-2013, 12:06 PM
You're gonna throw FG% at me, seriously? Tyson Chandler's got a better FG% the last 3 years. You really want to use that stat as your argument?

So what? Tyson Chandler is an extremely valuable offensive player and one of the most efficient scorers the game has ever seen. Shaq's FG% is also among the best, as well as Artis Gilmore's. Dwight is 16th all time in TS%. Are you going to argue that as well?

Is there a better more dominant player/finisher deep in the paint in today's NBA? Allow Dwight any opportunity in there and its GAME OVER.

strahan92osi72
03-13-2013, 12:11 PM
So what? Tyson Chandler is an extremely valuable offensive player and one of the most efficient scorers the game has ever seen. Shaq's FG% is also among the best, as well as Artis Gilmore's. Dwight is 16th all time in TS%. Are you going to argue that as well?

Is there a better more dominant player/finisher deep in the paint in today's NBA? Allow Dwight any opportunity in there and its GAME OVER.

My point is, just because you may be efficient inside of 5 feet does not take away the how bad he is from beyond that. He's got too many holes in his game offensively, and from the line to be considered a superstar. He will kill any team he is on from the free throw line in crunch time. He actually becomes a liability at that point. Plus, his attitude, surliness, and lack of leadership at all can bring a team down. For all that he can bring to a team, I personally wouldn't take him on mine.

kduce
03-13-2013, 12:13 PM
You make a compelling argument. You are right, Dwight doesnt have that extra gear where he comes out and suddenly takes it to another level when he reaches the playoffs. I agree with a lot of others, Dwight is a star for sure and he would easily be the best player on a lot of teams... but I dont think he has reached Superstar status yet. He may never reach it, but he has plenty of career left so lets see how things go from here.

RaiderLakersA's
03-13-2013, 12:14 PM
He took an average team to the nba finals. He's the best overall center in the league today. Freak athletically. He's a top 5 player in the nba when healthy which he is not currently. Definitely a superstar however you phrase it. Does he play like it always? No, but he has the skillset to be one and there's no team that he doesn't start for in the nba.

My thoughts exactly.

:clap:

strahan92osi72
03-13-2013, 12:15 PM
You make a compelling argument. You are right, Dwight doesnt have that extra gear where he comes out and suddenly takes it to another level when he reaches the playoffs. I agree with a lot of others, Dwight is a star for sure and he would easily be the best player on a lot of teams... but I dont think he has reached Superstar status yet. He may never reach it, but he has plenty of career left so lets see how things go from here.

You hit the nail right in the head.

NYCkid12
03-13-2013, 12:19 PM
I think a lot of people are judging him soley on this season....bacuse if you watched him in orlando the past 4-5 years you would see that he does have an offensive game and is the most dominant defender in the league by far

NYCkid12
03-13-2013, 12:20 PM
And for the people who say they wouldn't take him on there team because of his attitude , I remember a lot of people saying similar things about Lebron when he left Cleveland.."he's not a leader" .....and now obviously we know the conclusion to that story

JasonJohnHorn
03-13-2013, 12:23 PM
Dwight, save last year`s injury/lock-out shortened season and this season (which he is still recovering from), Dwight has been the best defender in the league for the bulk of his career. DPOY X3 says something. And his dominance on the glass is something else as well.

Yes... although the last season and a half he hasn't played as well as the four seasons leading up to them, he is a superstar.

Kobe2324
03-13-2013, 12:25 PM
Everyone likes a superstar that can create his own shot and score the ball, Just because Dwight does not have the best post moves does not mean he's not a Superstar, he's a dominating defensive player when healthy, he's a rebounding machine when healthy, and as long as he has a good playmaker alongside him to get him easier buckets he can score the ball efficiantly with his great athletism again of course when healthy. We are only starting to see recently in LA, next year he will be a beast again.

lpdunks8
03-13-2013, 12:27 PM
Javale Mcgee has owned him everytime they have went head2head....Javale >>> Dwight

LOL; what? http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=howardw01&p2=mcgeeja01

JordansBulls
03-13-2013, 12:28 PM
Dwight went thru two 60 wins teams as the underdog and led a team to the finals. Why wouldnt a guy who led a team to the finals as the only star not be a superstar?

maddBat
03-13-2013, 12:30 PM
def a superstar. every1s just a hater based on the recent. dont forget this year hes come back from surgery and on a new team.

do u remember the magic team he took to the finals? LOL best defensive big in the nba today.

Sly Guy
03-13-2013, 12:34 PM
wrong

and LOL at putting Kevin Love in Dwight's class....rediculous

Anyways, the main thing people don't bring up more is that when he's healthy he is the most dominant defender in the league by far..he changes shots, blocks, rebounds and just being in the paint alters gameplans

He might not bring his game up to another level offensively but in Orlando during the playoffs Defensively he was unreal during a lot of those playoff runs...look at Orlando now that he's gone, there one of the two worst teams in the league

I'm not a fan of Dwight anymore, but a lot of people forget how dominant he was before this injury season

this guy knows.
Dwight is one of the only maybe 5 guys in the NBA that you have to completely build your game plan around. When he's healthy.

LongIslandIcedZ
03-13-2013, 12:44 PM
Dwight used to make 15-20 million a year off of endorsement deals. McDonalds and Coca-Cola recently decided to not extend him, but again, when he was a top 3-5 player he was marketed as one as well. He might be a "super star" now, but the off-the-court argument doesn't work with him if we're talking "ever".

Current off-the-court earnings, per Forbes.

LeBron: 40 million
Kobe: 32 million
Rose: 16 million
Wade: 13 million
KD: 13 million
Melo: 9 million

Blake I'd imagine is somewhere below Kobe...he didn't make the list because Forbes only did a top-10 list of total earners, and he doesn't make a ton for playing basketball. He's got Kia, Subway, AT&T Vizio...and a new Nike contract.

Basically the way I look at it, is if the average non-sports fan recognizes. I'd say most average non sports fans know who Lebron and Kobe are, without question. I dont know if that is the case with Durant/Cliff Paul/Rose. And honestly I suppose Dwight could be put in the second group of guys, but he isnt on Kobe and Lebron's level. I dont even think Durant/CP3/Blake/Rose are all that close to Lebron and Kobe, I think their on their way, just not there yet.

Swashcuff
03-13-2013, 12:44 PM
My point is, just because you may be efficient inside of 5 feet does not take away the how bad he is from beyond that. He's got too many holes in his game offensively, and from the line to be considered a superstar. He will kill any team he is on from the free throw line in crunch time. He actually becomes a liability at that point. Plus, his attitude, surliness, and lack of leadership at all can bring a team down. For all that he can bring to a team, I personally wouldn't take him on mine.

This is absolute HOGWASH. You mean to tell me that Dwight's inability to score outside of 5 feet hurts him but his absolute dominance within 5 feet doesn't help. His late game FT woes hurts him but the fact that his opposing # rarely gets to stay on the floor because of the fact that they are almost always in foul trouble doesn't help him.

By your argument Shaquille O'Neal was NEVER a superstar because of the same "reasons" you're stating. Same for Wilt.

Honestly if you ask me you really have no point. You seem to dislike Dwight personally and that's why your judgement is clouded. When you're able to get to the line 20 times a game, shot at 60% from the field, grab 16+ rebounds on any given night AND lock down the paint like no other in the game, you're an absolute superstar in this league. You guys have selective memory but just let Dwight find his niche again and regain health. He'd be a top 3-5 player once more leading whatever team he plays for deep in the playoffs and all this talk about him not being a superstar would be laughed at.

Stinkyoutsider
03-13-2013, 12:51 PM
I think that Howard is a superstar but he has room to grow, especially with seeing how he left the Magic.

The reason he hasn't been able to raise his game in the key moments (in Orlando) is because he's limited with his post moves. His shooting touch isn't good and if he was smart, he would pay attention to a guy like Amare in the way he developed a shooting touch when he was in Phoenix and recovering from his first microfracture surgery. If Howard can develop this, his moves would be more effective. He's already athletic enough to force doubles but he doesn't have that skillset yet.

Defensively, there's no one like him in the NBA right now as far as being complete. Blocking/changing shots, strength, techniquie, movement in the post, and pure intimidation factor makes a dominant low post defender.

TheLegend
03-13-2013, 12:55 PM
Dwight Howard is absolutely a NBA superstar. If you don't think so then you really don't know what a superstar is.

NYCkid12
03-13-2013, 12:55 PM
Basically the way I look at it, is if the average non-sports fan recognizes. I'd say most average non sports fans know who Lebron and Kobe are, without question. I dont know if that is the case with Durant/Cliff Paul/Rose. And honestly I suppose Dwight could be put in the second group of guys, but he isnt on Kobe and Lebron's level. I dont even think Durant/CP3/Blake/Rose are all that close to Lebron and Kobe, I think their on their way, just not there yet.

If your going by those standards, for off the court recognition, I agree with you for the most part

But whenever I evaluate if a guy is a superstar, I am judging soley 100% his game on the court...being recognized off the court doesn't win ball games

Zackthesack
03-13-2013, 12:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zPJqavUIuKQ

LongIslandIcedZ
03-13-2013, 01:04 PM
If your going by those standards, for off the court recognition, I agree with you for the most part

But whenever I evaluate if a guy is a superstar, I am judging soley 100% his game on the court...being recognized off the court doesn't win ball games

Thats why its a largely subjective argument.

hotadef
03-13-2013, 01:15 PM
i guess its how you define a superstar. i mean really a superstar to me is an all star fan and media favorite makes them a superstar. bill russell was a superstar he did it on defence much like howard does now. scoring is not the only thing that wins games. dwight is a game changer on d. dennis rodman as well. in the end the fans and media play the biggest part in what seperates allstars and superstars. they come to see kobe the come to see superman or ironman or what ever they calling him now.

Randy Moss84
03-13-2013, 01:21 PM
Lmao, thanks, needed a good laugh

This thread is a good laugh.

So players like James harden, carnelian Anthony, Tony parker etc are all superstars? Lol

D12 fan
03-13-2013, 01:29 PM
This thread is a complete joke, Dwight was considered a top 2 player just 2 years ago. SMH

OP either doesn't know basketball or he just hates Dwight Howard lol.

Pistol_Pete
03-13-2013, 01:39 PM
No. This is ridiculous. The only argument here is what someone personally considers a superstar. In basketball terms, on the court and impacting the game, I don't now how you could say he's not a superstar.

First, let's take a look at his career stat line:
18.4PPG, 13PPG, 2.2BPG, 1.5APG, 1SPG

Now let's look at his career playoff stat line:
19.9PPG, 14.4PPG, 2.8BPG, 1.4APG, .8SPG

And finally for stats, let's look at this season, where he's considered to be playing terrible:
16.5PPG, 12.9RPG, 2.4BPG, 1.4APG, 1.1SPG

Looks like he raised his game in points, rebounds, and blocks, while assists and stats are almost the same in the the playoffs.

Now let's take a look at his awards:
3 NBA Defensive Player of the Year (20092011)
7 NBA All-Star (20072013)
4 NBA rebounding champion (20082010, 2012)
2 NBA blocks leader (20092010)
5 All-NBA First Team (20082012)
All-NBA Third Team (2007)
4 NBA All-Defensive First Team (20092012)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2008)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2005)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (2008)
Olympic Gold Medalist

And, he went to the NBA Finals with what really was a weak team. He didn't have a 3 HOFer team or a 4 All-Star starters team.

Superstar.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-13-2013, 01:57 PM
1. He's not
2. I might fit that criteria
3. I disagree with him

I can see you took Howard leaving pretty well. Why do you not dislike him? Does it bother you that your favorite player is playing for your most hated team?

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-13-2013, 02:00 PM
Dwight went thru two 60 wins teams as the underdog and led a team to the finals. Why wouldnt a guy who led a team to the finals as the only star not be a superstar?

Dwight is with out a doubt a superstar. This site has alot of haters. I'm sure if Dwight wasn't on the Lakers, none of these kids wouldn't be saying that.

DallasTrilla23
03-13-2013, 02:01 PM
what?? You talk like going to the conference finals and finals are not impressive accomplishments.

You say there's only about 5 superstars in the league so you're telling me those 5 players not only could accomplish everything Dwight with that Orlando team but they would of done better?

smh

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-13-2013, 02:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPJqavUIuKQ

lol you fail!

LakersIn5
03-13-2013, 02:03 PM
My point is, just because you may be efficient inside of 5 feet does not take away the how bad he is from beyond that. He's got too many holes in his game offensively, and from the line to be considered a superstar. He will kill any team he is on from the free throw line in crunch time. He actually becomes a liability at that point. Plus, his attitude, surliness, and lack of leadership at all can bring a team down. For all that he can bring to a team, I personally wouldn't take him on mine.

you have a team? rich bastard

NYCkid12
03-13-2013, 02:07 PM
I can see you took Howard leaving pretty well. Why do you not dislike him? Does it bother you that your favorite player is playing for your most hated team?

I don't know about ManRam, but for me it was a year and half of constant is he staying/going, who he wants to be traded to, arguments with upper management/ coaching staff...it began to take a toll and I wanted more of an end to it all more than anything else

And just because you don't like a player, you can't deny there talents

NYCkid12
03-13-2013, 02:08 PM
So players like James harden, carnelian Anthony, Tony parker etc are all superstars? Lol

Those guys are not on Dwight's level.....

ManRam
03-13-2013, 02:20 PM
I can see you took Howard leaving pretty well. Why do you not dislike him? Does it bother you that your favorite player is playing for your most hated team?

You mistake "liking" for being rational.

I hate Dwight. I have little respect for him. He put the team and fans through unnecessary hell because of his immaturity and selfishness to an extent.

He's just been slandered way too much this year despite clearly not being 100%, despite adjusting to a new team, two new coaches and a player like Kobe and a system/team that doesn't know how to properly utilize him (figuring it out). I don't care if I "like" or "hate" someone, I'll say what I think is objective/fair/true.

And it did annoy me. I was hesitant to watch them play early because I figured they'd just crush it and I wasn't ready for that. But honestly, and I don't care if people believe me, I'm happy they're gonna make the playoffs...and I dislike them much less than I thought.

miller
03-13-2013, 02:36 PM
he has proven to be incapable of carrying his team or stepping up his offensive game come playoff time, and virtually has been the same player whether its regular season or playoff time


Surely one can argue this isn't a bad thing..... lots of stars stats go down in the playoffs but because he remains consistent he hasn't stepped up in your view. Harsh analysis in my opinion. Lots of teams would love a guy that could deliver the same as his regular season production in the playoffs.

Consistent production playoff or regular season, makes teammates better and gets easy looks but falls down against a superior loaded west team in the Finals, Just curious - in 2007 would Lebron have been a superstar under your criteria?

Bruno
03-13-2013, 03:04 PM
dwights a superstar. how else do you explain him landing the starting gig at the all-star game despite putting up such a weak season.

according to hollingers PER definition, Howard has been somewhere between "solid second option" and "borderline all-star". yet he still dominated the voting. he's a star.

LA4life24/8
03-13-2013, 03:10 PM
Dwight is a superstar player or star player, i hate the term superstar btw it makes it sound like ppl are saying they have super powers... lame but dwight is a huge star and a very elite player when healthy, dont be fooled by this year he had major back surgery and came back way too early, just wait hell get back to form

NYCkid12
03-13-2013, 03:12 PM
Dwight is a superstar player or star player, i hate the term superstar btw it makes it sound like ppl are saying they have super powers... lame but dwight is a huge star and a very elite player when healthy, dont be fooled by this year he had major back surgery and came back way too early, just wait hell get back to form

I think you are thinking of super HERO lol

superior
03-13-2013, 03:16 PM
wrong

and LOL at putting Kevin Love in Dwight's class....rediculous

Anyways, the main thing people don't bring up more is that when he's healthy he is the most dominant defender in the league by far..he changes shots, blocks, rebounds and just being in the paint alters gameplans

He might not bring his game up to another level offensively but in Orlando during the playoffs Defensively he was unreal during a lot of those playoff runs...look at Orlando now that he's gone, there one of the two worst teams in the league

I'm not a fan of Dwight anymore, but a lot of people forget how dominant he was before this injury season

first of all how old are you? do you really not know how to spell "ridiculous"??? my god......anywho....k-love would give howard the bussiness 8 days out of the week. only people who dont think so are little howard fanboys

True Sports Fan
03-13-2013, 03:19 PM
You try taking your team to a championship when your surrounding pieces are Hedo and Jameer Nelson

Rarely do superstars take a team to the playoffs by themselves. Usually have a supporting star.

And Dwight isn't built for his offensive. 14 Rebounds and 3 BPG in the playoffs? That's really impressive. Rebounding and Shotblocking are both vital to a championship contender, but he also can score if needed.

NYCkid12
03-13-2013, 03:33 PM
first of all how old are you? do you really not know how to spell "ridiculous"??? my god......anywho....k-love would give howard the bussiness 8 days out of the week. only people who dont think so are little howard fanboys

LMAO I see grammar gets you worked up. So just a heads up sir, "anywho" is not a word, "dont" is also not a word, I believe you are reffering to "don't" which has an apostrophe which stands for "do not".

Anyways, your delusional if you think Kevin Love is even in the same discussion as Howard. Howard has led his team to the playoffs multiple times, one defensive player of the year 3 times, and led his team to a finals appearance. Kevin Love has done what ?

NYCkid12
03-13-2013, 03:35 PM
You try taking your team to a championship when your surrounding pieces are Hedo and Jameer Nelson

Rarely do superstars take a team to the playoffs by themselves. Usually have a supporting star.

And Dwight isn't built for his offensive. 14 Rebounds and 3 BPG in the playoffs? That's really impressive. Rebounding and Shotblocking are both vital to a championship contender, but he also can score if needed.

And the year they went to the finals Jameer was hurt....Skip to my lou was there PG...Nelson only came back for the finals vs LA

GREATNESS ONE
03-13-2013, 05:15 PM
So players like James harden, carnelian Anthony, Tony parker etc are all superstars? Lol

Kobe
Lebron
Durant
Howard
CP3
Melo
Wade
Rose(healthy)
Westbrook
Love
Griffin

Are capable of leading a franchise as the face and almost taking any teams roster to the playoffs if healthy.

Not saying they are the best hands down but these players are all stars in the league with a few more that are carrying the NBA brand. Superstar, NBA star, sure but maybe we need a clear definition of the term Superstar

dtmagnet
03-13-2013, 05:34 PM
He was in Orlando, he sucks butt this year.

AIRMAR72
03-14-2013, 02:07 AM
I never really understood the argument for dwight howard being a superstar, he essentially is the carmelo anthony of big men, except that unlike melo, dwight makes his teammates better and helps get them easy looks.

before i continue this, let me preface this by saying that i believe dwight howard is the best center in the nba, and is an ELITE player, but not a Superstar

dwight howard, for the majority of his career has been a great rebounder, shot blocker, and a solid scoring center, without qiestion he is elite at his position, but in terms of being a superstar? he has no argument, he got past the first round a few times, but only reached the conference finals twice, got to the finals the year kg was out, then proceeded to get smacked by the celtics the next time they faced in the playoffs, and overall, howard doesnt raise his game in the playoffs with career averages of 19 pts and 14 boards

he has proven to be incapable of carrying his team or stepping up his offensive game come playoff time, and virtually has been the same player whether its regular season or playoff time

he does not have that second level, he doesnt rise to the occasion, and outside of the 6 playoff games he played in 2011, he only averaged over 20 ppg in the playoffs twice in his career

superstars are players who not only have nearly complete all around games, make their team mates better, but also, have that next level when it matters

my my ranking, howard is in that same bubble that carmelo anthony and kevin love are, players that are Elite, but for different reasons, each player cannot legitimately be considered a superstar

realistically, there are probably 5 or less superstars in todays NBA

dwight howard gets wayyy too much credit in this department, he is without question elite at his position, a top 10 nba player, but does in no way deserve superstar consideration, dwight howard is nothing more than an Elite High Level Allstar and not a superstarCORRECT..thta is why I refer to howard as a MODERN day Antonio Davis except Antonio was 10x better compare to Howard, if howard was playing back in the days he would NEVER get off the bench the man is just TOO stiff, LACKS shooting touch, 0post moves, no go to moves, predictable, average IQ, POOR ft maker, a magnet for fouls, has NEVER improve on HIS offensive SKILLS after spending time with the dream(HAKEEM) howard NEED other players to make him better that is NOT a SUPERSTAR

NYCkid12
03-14-2013, 10:04 AM
CORRECT..thta is why I refer to howard as a MODERN day Antonio Davis except Antonio was 10x better compare to Howard, if howard was playing back in the days he would NEVER get off the bench the man is just TOO stiff, LACKS shooting touch, 0post moves, no go to moves, predictable, average IQ, POOR ft maker, a magnet for fouls, has NEVER improve on HIS offensive SKILLS after spending time with the dream(HAKEEM) howard NEED other players to make him better that is NOT a SUPERSTAR

Anotoni Davis was better than Dwight Howard? I won't even address this

Anyways, we are not "back in the day" we are here and now and he's the best center in the league by a wide margin

You also have no idea what you are talking about. He never improved his offensive skills? He has actually improved a huge amount from the time he was in the league and even more since the year they went to the finals. I'm curious who on Orlando made Dwight better?

You must soley be basing your opinion on his very short time in LA where he is in an offense that doesn't fit his game at all. Becaue if you had watched any other part of his career, you would actually have a clue what your talking about.

blahblahyoutoo
03-14-2013, 10:14 AM
He took an average team to the nba finals. He's the best overall center in the league today. Freak athletically. He's a top 5 player in the nba when healthy which he is not currently. Definitely a superstar however you phrase it. Does he play like it always? No, but he has the skillset to be one and there's no team that he doesn't start for in the nba.

he didn't take the team. the team took the team to the playoffs.
he is the most dependent star center in the past couple of decades. he depends on others to set him up for easy buckets. he depends on his wing players to hit 3s because he cannot create shots on his own.

you didn't see this in olajuwon, robinson, ewing, shaq, etc. dump the ball down low to those guys and it's an easy bucket off of a dunk, spin move, hook shot, jump shot, fadeaway, or a pass out of a double team.

dump the ball down low to dwight and it's a turnover, or a pass out (he's a bad passer), or a hack which leads to missed FTs.

blahblahyoutoo
03-14-2013, 10:17 AM
wrong

and LOL at putting Kevin Love in Dwight's class....rediculous

Anyways, the main thing people don't bring up more is that when he's healthy he is the most dominant defender in the league by far..he changes shots, blocks, rebounds and just being in the paint alters gameplans

He might not bring his game up to another level offensively but in Orlando during the playoffs Defensively he was unreal during a lot of those playoff runs...look at Orlando now that he's gone, there one of the two worst teams in the league

I'm not a fan of Dwight anymore, but a lot of people forget how dominant he was before this injury season

mutumbo was more dominant defensively and just as offensively inept. was he a superstar? most would rank him a tier below hakeem and shaq.

blahblahyoutoo
03-14-2013, 10:18 AM
Everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess. As idiotic as it may seem :shrug:

This simplistic one side of the ball thinking really waters down the NBA. By the notion of Dwight not being a superstar because of his inability to score over 20 ppg in the post season Bill Russell should not be a superstar either. He too only did so on 2 occasions.

it's not a ppg question.
i didn't watch russell play but did he have a complete game on both ends? was he an offensive threat? could he be trusted to score if called upon?

Swashcuff
03-14-2013, 10:49 AM
mutumbo was more dominant defensively and just as offensively inept. was he a superstar? most would rank him a tier below hakeem and shaq.

What was Mutumbo's career average again? How many times has Mutumbo scored 30+ in a game? How many occasions would he take his man out of the game on the offensive end by scoring bucket after bucket? How many teams has he lead to the NBA Finals where he was not only the only above average defensive player but the team's #1 option and leading scorer. Where does he ranked amongst the most efficient scorers in the history of basketball. If you can answer all these questions then you'd realize how utterly idiotic your comment is.


it's not a ppg question.
i didn't watch russell play but did he have a complete game on both ends? was he an offensive threat? could he be trusted to score if called upon?

You jumped in a PPG debate and said its not a ppg question. Really?

Did Russell have a complete game on both ends? No. Did Bird? Magic? Oscar? etc? He was hands down the most valuable defensive player the league has ever seen. That's half the floor.

Was he an offensive threat? Of course he was.

Could he be trusted? :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: What do you think? Can LeBron be trusted? in 2011 he couldn't. Did that make him any less of a superstar? Could Shaq be trusted late at the line? No? Did that make him any less of a superstar? How about Wilt.

C'mon what exactly are you getting at?

Howard is twice the offensive player Mutumbo ever was and could also hold his own with him defensively.

NYCkid12
03-14-2013, 10:51 AM
mutumbo was more dominant defensively and just as offensively inept. was he a superstar? most would rank him a tier below hakeem and shaq.

I'd say Dwight and Mutumbo are about equally as dominant on the defensive side of the ball, although probably a slight edge to mutumbo

But you are making Dwight Howard out to be one of the worst offensive players, the guy averages right around 20ppg and Mutumbo was around 10ppg...Dwight when feeded the ball can make a low post move and can score...as a heat fan you should now this considering we dominated that divison until the big 3 came along...That being said he's obviously not hakeem, shaq, or a ewing on offense..but he's not mutumbo either

Randy Moss84
03-14-2013, 10:58 AM
I'd say Dwight and Mutumbo are about equally as dominant on the defensive side of the ball, although probably a slight edge to mutumbo

But you are making Dwight Howard out to be one of the worst offensive players, the guy averages right around 20ppg and Mutumbo was around 10ppg...Dwight when feeded the ball can make a low post move and can score...as a heat fan you should now this considering we dominated that divison until the big 3 came along...That being said he's obviously not hakeem, shaq, or a ewing on offense..but he's not mutumbo either

now out of those players, which would you say relys mostly on their athleticism to score, and also, rank them in order of actual offensive ability

NYCkid12
03-14-2013, 11:04 AM
now out of those players, which would you say relys mostly on their athleticism to score, and also, rank them in order of actual offensive ability

I know the point you are getting at...and I never said he was ever on there offensive level...obviously of those 4 guys Dwight ranks last when it comes to offensive ability.. and with Ewing for example, he averaged around that 21-24ppg and dwight averages 20ppg..does it matter how he's getting it??

But your throwing one side of the court completely out...Rank those guys on the defensive end of the floor...its Dwight number one by FAR...not even close

You don't make a decision on if a guy is a superstar by comparing him to guys in a different era, you do it with guys now..and right now he's the best center in the league

Did you watch this guy in orlando at all?? (Not trying to be a dick, serious question)

Swashcuff
03-14-2013, 11:10 AM
now out of those players, which would you say relys mostly on their athleticism to score, and also, rank them in order of actual offensive ability

Shaq.

Dwight has the least offensive ability of the bench but he's the 2nd best defensive player of the lot. Doesn't that count for anything?

He was his team's BEST defensive player and only 20 ppg scorer the year he LEAD them to the NBA finals. Not even Shaq can boast of that because every finals team he has ever played on he's had a #2 (in the case of Wade a #1) 20+ ppg scorer.

Randy Moss84
03-14-2013, 11:13 AM
I know the point you are getting at...and I never said he was ever on there offensive level...obviously of those 4 guys Dwight ranks last when it comes to offensive ability.. and with Ewing for example, he averaged around that 21-24ppg and dwight averages 20ppg..does it matter how he's getting it??

But your throwing one side of the court completely out...Rank those guys on the defensive end of the floor...its Dwight number one by FAR...not even close

You don't make a decision on if a guy is a superstar by comparing him to guys in a different era, you do it with guys now..and right now he's the best center in the league

Did you watch this guy in orlando at all?? (Not trying to be a dick, serious question)

this is like asking whether blake griffin's 20 ppg is equivalent to the 20 ppg of a kobe or a lebron or something

sure hes scoring the same points, but when the game slows down and its time for a last second shot, who has the advantage? the player who actually has a fundemental game and knows how to create his shot, or the one who relys on put back dunks, offensive rebounds, and tip ins to score?

as far as in orlando, he got the ball in the paint, the double came, he passed it out to his team mates for the shot. he had minimal post moves, and in his last year there he added a little mid range bank shot which had some success

im not undermining his defensive ability, im just saying he doesnt have that next level, when the game is on the line, you cant rely on him to hit that shot because he cant carry a team

his eastern conference finals appearances dont mean much to me, for the past decade the east has been crap, if you take the nuggets and put them over there for the past decade, they would have been in the conference finals plently as well. so ECF isnt something i look at as an achievment

and the fact that he beat the celtics without kg, then the next time they faced them with kg they lost 4-2 is something of note

what is wrong with saying someone is a high level allstar? people act like its an indictment on the player

Randy Moss84
03-14-2013, 11:16 AM
Shaq.

Dwight has the least offensive ability of the bench but he's the 2nd best defensive player of the lot. Doesn't that count for anything?

He was his team's BEST defensive player and only 20 ppg scorer the year he LEAD them to the NBA finals. Not even Shaq can boast of that because every finals team he has ever played on he's had a #2 (in the case of Wade a #1) 20+ ppg scorer.

sure dwights defense counts, but how far does that really get you? how many times in history has a top 3 or 5 defensive team won a ring?

led the team to the finals? i went over that argument already, it isnt even a discussion. this reminds me of hakeems two rings, he won 1 when jordan retired, and the other when jordan was jsut coming back, and people somehow think hes the goat of the center positon

BKLYNpigeon
03-14-2013, 11:21 AM
that have to stop letting Children the ability to create threads. you guys put up the same threads on a 3 month cycle. Stop it already.

NBA forum is getting dumber and dumber.

NYCkid12
03-14-2013, 11:27 AM
this is like asking whether blake griffin's 20 ppg is equivalent to the 20 ppg of a kobe or a lebron or something

sure hes scoring the same points, but when the game slows down and its time for a last second shot, who has the advantage? the player who actually has a fundemental game and knows how to create his shot, or the one who relys on put back dunks, offensive rebounds, and tip ins to score?

as far as in orlando, he got the ball in the paint, the double came, he passed it out to his team mates for the shot. he had minimal post moves, and in his last year there he added a little mid range bank shot which had some success

im not undermining his defensive ability, im just saying he doesnt have that next level, when the game is on the line, you cant rely on him to hit that shot because he cant carry a team

his eastern conference finals appearances dont mean much to me, for the past decade the east has been crap, if you take the nuggets and put them over there for the past decade, they would have been in the conference finals plently as well. so ECF isnt something i look at as an achievment

and the fact that he beat the celtics without kg, then the next time they faced them with kg they lost 4-2 is something of note

what is wrong with saying someone is a high level allstar? people act like its an indictment on the player

So in order to be a superstar you need to create your own shot?? So Shaq wasn't a superstar because they didn't rely on him for last second shots

Randy Moss84
03-14-2013, 11:34 AM
So in order to be a superstar you need to create your own shot?? So Shaq wasn't a superstar because they didn't rely on him for last second shots

why would a center need to take the last shot when he was playing with a high level allstar like kobe who could do it from a guard position, and has the ability to score from more areas on the court as well as hit freethrows?

NYCkid12
03-14-2013, 11:44 AM
why would a center need to take the last shot when he was playing with a high level allstar like kobe who could do it from a guard position, and has the ability to score from more areas on the court as well as hit freethrows?

That's my point, the criteria used for a superstar player of "he can't create his own shot" is a poor one because with exception of probably Hakeem (and not him either really), none of those guys are getting the final shot

A big man very rarely gets the last shot for the reasons you mentioned..what you want out of your big man is to give you a good post game (Dwight does, along with being the best pick and roll big in the game), control the paint (which he's the best, not even close), provide defense (he's dominant defensively), and rebound the basketball (excellent rebounder, probably best in the league, if not top 3)

So what is it that he needs to do to be considered a superstar?

Chronz
03-14-2013, 12:13 PM
Wtf did I just read

blahblahyoutoo
03-14-2013, 12:33 PM
it absolutely matters. when the game is on the line, do you trust howard with the ball and pray he doesn't brick a shot, turn it over, or get fouled and miss 2 FT's?
Or give it to a proven scorer who can score over a double team, kick out when triple teamed, and hit FT's when it counts.

Hakeem was a monster on the defensive end, and as graceful and reliable a scorer on the offensive end.


I know the point you are getting at...and I never said he was ever on there offensive level...obviously of those 4 guys Dwight ranks last when it comes to offensive ability.. and with Ewing for example, he averaged around that 21-24ppg and dwight averages 20ppg..does it matter how he's getting it??

But your throwing one side of the court completely out...Rank those guys on the defensive end of the floor...its Dwight number one by FAR...not even close

You don't make a decision on if a guy is a superstar by comparing him to guys in a different era, you do it with guys now..and right now he's the best center in the league

Did you watch this guy in orlando at all?? (Not trying to be a dick, serious question)

Swashcuff
03-14-2013, 12:33 PM
sure dwights defense counts, but how far does that really get you? how many times in history has a top 3 or 5 defensive team won a ring?

led the team to the finals? i went over that argument already, it isnt even a discussion. this reminds me of hakeems two rings, he won 1 when jordan retired, and the other when jordan was jsut coming back, and people somehow think hes the goat of the center positon

Gonna do something that's rare here on PSD. Do the research and actually ANSWER the question that was asked :speechless:"


Year Champion Defensive Rank
2012 Miami Heat 4th
2011 Dallas Mavericks 8th
2010 Los Angeles Lakers 4th
2009 Los Angeles Lakers 6th
2008 Boston Celtics 1st
2007 San Antonio Spurs 2nd
2006 Miami Heat 9th
2005 San Antonio Spurs 1st
2004 Detroit Pistons 2nd
2003 San Antonio Spurs 3rd
2002 Los Angeles Lakers 7th
2001 Los Angeles Lakers 21st
2000 Los Angeles Lakers 1st
1999 San Antonio Spurs 1st
1998 Chicago Bulls 3rd
1997 Chicago Bulls 4th
1996 Chicago Bulls 1st
1995 Houston Rockets 12th
1994 Houston Rockets 2nd
1993 Chicago Bulls 7th
1992 Chicago Bulls 4th
1991 Chicago Bulls 7th
1990 Detroit Pistons 2nd
1989 Detroit Pistons 3rd
1988 Los Angeles Lakers 9th
1987 Los Angeles Lakers 7th
1986 Boston Celtics 1st
1985 Los Angeles Lakers 7th
1984 Boston Celtics 3rd
1983 Philadelphia 76ers 5th
1982 Los Angeles Lakers 10th
1981 Boston Celtics 4th
1980 Los Angeles Lakers 9th
1979 Seattle SuperSonics 1st
1978 Washington Bullets 9th
1977 Portland Trail Blazers 5th
1976 Boston Celtics 5th
1975 Golden State Warriors 3rd
1974 Boston Celtics 5th
1973 New York Knicks 1st
1972 Los Angeles Lakers 6th
1971 Milwaukee Bucks 3rd
1970 New York Knicks 1st
1969 Boston Celtics 2nd
1968 Boston Celtics 2nd
1967 Philadelphia 76ers 3rd
1966 Boston Celtics 1st
1965 Boston Celtics 1st
1964 Boston Celtics 2nd
1963 Boston Celtics 2nd
1962 Boston Celtics 1st
1961 Boston Celtics 2nd
1960 Boston Celtics 5th
1959 Boston Celtics 6th
1958 St. Louis Hawks 5th
1957 Boston Celtics 5th
1956 Philadelphia Warriors 5th
1955 Syracuse Nationals 1st
1954 Minneapolis Lakers 4th
1953 Minneapolis Lakers 3rd
1952 Minneapolis Lakers 1st
1951 Rochester Royals 3rd
1950 Minneapolis Lakers 2nd
1949 Minneapolis Lakers 1st
1948 Baltimore Bullets 2nd
1947 Philadelphia Warriors 5th

51 NBA Champions have been top 5 defenses while the other 15 others have not.

Capiche

blahblahyoutoo
03-14-2013, 12:36 PM
now show it side by side with offensive rankings.


Gonna do something that's rare here on PSD. Do the research and actually ANSWER the question that was asked :speechless:"


Year Champion Defensive Rank
2012 Miami Heat 4th
2011 Dallas Mavericks 8th
2010 Los Angeles Lakers 4th
2009 Los Angeles Lakers 6th
2008 Boston Celtics 1st
2007 San Antonio Spurs 2nd
2006 Miami Heat 9th
2005 San Antonio Spurs 1st
2004 Detroit Pistons 2nd
2003 San Antonio Spurs 3rd
2002 Los Angeles Lakers 7th
2001 Los Angeles Lakers 21st
2000 Los Angeles Lakers 1st
1999 San Antonio Spurs 1st
1998 Chicago Bulls 3rd
1997 Chicago Bulls 4th
1996 Chicago Bulls 1st
1995 Houston Rockets 12th
1994 Houston Rockets 2nd
1993 Chicago Bulls 7th
1992 Chicago Bulls 4th
1991 Chicago Bulls 7th
1990 Detroit Pistons 2nd
1989 Detroit Pistons 3rd
1988 Los Angeles Lakers 9th
1987 Los Angeles Lakers 7th
1986 Boston Celtics 1st
1985 Los Angeles Lakers 7th
1984 Boston Celtics 3rd
1983 Philadelphia 76ers 5th
1982 Los Angeles Lakers 10th
1981 Boston Celtics 4th
1980 Los Angeles Lakers 9th
1979 Seattle SuperSonics 1st
1978 Washington Bullets 9th
1977 Portland Trail Blazers 5th
1976 Boston Celtics 5th
1975 Golden State Warriors 3rd
1974 Boston Celtics 5th
1973 New York Knicks 1st
1972 Los Angeles Lakers 6th
1971 Milwaukee Bucks 3rd
1970 New York Knicks 1st
1969 Boston Celtics 2nd
1968 Boston Celtics 2nd
1967 Philadelphia 76ers 3rd
1966 Boston Celtics 1st
1965 Boston Celtics 1st
1964 Boston Celtics 2nd
1963 Boston Celtics 2nd
1962 Boston Celtics 1st
1961 Boston Celtics 2nd
1960 Boston Celtics 5th
1959 Boston Celtics 6th
1958 St. Louis Hawks 5th
1957 Boston Celtics 5th
1956 Philadelphia Warriors 5th
1955 Syracuse Nationals 1st
1954 Minneapolis Lakers 4th
1953 Minneapolis Lakers 3rd
1952 Minneapolis Lakers 1st
1951 Rochester Royals 3rd
1950 Minneapolis Lakers 2nd
1949 Minneapolis Lakers 1st
1948 Baltimore Bullets 2nd
1947 Philadelphia Warriors 5th

51 NBA Champions have been top 5 defenses while the other 15 others have not.

Capiche

Swashcuff
03-14-2013, 12:52 PM
now show it side by side with offensive rankings.

I did the hard work now you do the same. I can tell you though that there are much top 10 defenses that won titles than there are top 5 offenses.