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mjqusoldier
03-08-2013, 12:11 PM
Is Amare Stoudemire back? I watch every Knicks game and he looks unstoppable resembling his Pheonix days. He is dunking on people and added a unstoppable post game/ hook shot. It looks like working with Hakeem has paid off. His defense also looks much improved under Woodson. He is hustling his tail off on both sides of the ball. I think he should start as he is still showing he is one of the best big men in the league. I know he is on a 30 minute a game plan but he gets it done in his 30 minutes. He is the Knicks most efficient scorer and looks to be back in all star forum with a few new nice wrinkles to his game. Thoughts?

Daze9900
03-08-2013, 12:16 PM
Yup he seems to be healthy but there is a medical cap for him to play 30 minutes a night.

Pacerlive
03-08-2013, 12:18 PM
Is Amare Stoudemire back? I watch every Knicks game and he looks unstoppable resembling his Pheonix days. He is dunking on people and added a unstoppable post game/ hook shot. It looks like working with Hakeem has paid off. His defense also looks much improved under Woodson. He is hustling his tail off on both sides of the ball. I think he should start as he is still showing he is one of the best big men in the league. I know he is on a 30 minute a game plan but he gets it done in his 30 minutes. He is the Knicks most efficient scorer and looks to be back in all star forum with a few new nice wrinkles to his game. Thoughts?
He is 10 games removed from scoring 7 points against the Pacers. I think he has to prove it in the playoffs to even consider him back. To me he is the best backup pf in the league and he is paid like it..

ewing
03-08-2013, 12:19 PM
He is 10 games removed from scoring 7 points against the Pacers. I think he has to prove it in the playoffs to even consider him back. To me he is the best backup pf in the league and he is paid like it..

pick one game as sample size, that makes sense

NYCkid12
03-08-2013, 12:19 PM
I think he's played very well, still a liability on defense for sure

I think he should stay coming off the bench, only because of the minutes limit...If Knicks get off to a good start you can buy a few mins before having to sub Amare in..if he starts he'll probably play the first 7-8 minuts and then your working with 20 mins the rest of the game..I'd rather have him for the 4th

blahblahyoutoo
03-08-2013, 12:20 PM
Is Amare Stoudemire back? I watch every Knicks game and he looks unstoppable resembling his Pheonix days. He is dunking on people and added a unstoppable post game/ hook shot. It looks like working with Hakeem has paid off. His defense also looks much improved under Woodson. He is hustling his tail off on both sides of the ball. I think he should start as he is still showing he is one of the best big men in the league. I know he is on a 30 minute a game plan but he gets it done in his 30 minutes. He is the Knicks most efficient scorer and looks to be back in all star forum with a few new nice wrinkles to his game. Thoughts?

between amare and dwight, both students of hakeem, it's obvious who has an offensive game.
also equally obvious who has a defensive game, lol.

NYCkid12
03-08-2013, 12:22 PM
He is 10 games removed from scoring 7 points against the Pacers. I think he has to prove it in the playoffs to even consider him back. To me he is the best backup pf in the league and he is paid like it..

I agree with this...Since coming to NY he hasn't taken the playoffs seriously and has let his team down...

Hurting your back doing a trick dunk? Punching a fire extinguisher?? That's not what I'd want from a guy I am paying max money to

mjqusoldier
03-08-2013, 12:22 PM
between amare and dwight, both students of hakeem, it's obvious who has an offensive game.
also equally obvious who has a defensive game, lol.
Lol but amares defense looks much improved.

mjqusoldier
03-08-2013, 12:24 PM
Also if he keeps playing like this do the Knicks resign him or let him walk? What kind of contract does he get?

NYCkid12
03-08-2013, 12:24 PM
Lol but amares defense looks much improved.

Thats not saying much

NYCkid12
03-08-2013, 12:25 PM
Also if he keeps playing like this do the Knicks resign him or let him walk? What kind of contract does he get?

he's still got another 2 years after this season.....

Pacerlive
03-08-2013, 12:27 PM
pick one game as sample size, that makes sense

I can come up with many others but it is what it is. Knicks fans want Amare back to his old form since they are paying him 20 million a year. Thats understandable but its still too soon to tell IMO. I feel alot more confident saying David West is back than saying Amares back at this point.

Pacerlive
03-08-2013, 12:29 PM
Also if he keeps playing like this do the Knicks resign him or let him walk? What kind of contract does he get?

His current deal which is 21 mill and 23 mill for the next two years.

The knicks next year have 57 million tied up in three players.

NYCkid12
03-08-2013, 12:35 PM
The Knicks really are in cap hell right now.....I mean this is the team for the next 3 years pretty much

oak2455
03-08-2013, 12:37 PM
Also if he keeps playing like this do the Knicks resign him or let him walk? What kind of contract does he get?

when his contract expires he will get a max deal :D

KnickaBocka.44
03-08-2013, 12:40 PM
The Knicks really are in cap hell right now.....I mean this is the team for the next 3 years pretty much

That's how it goes when you sign multiple high dollar players. They are going all in for the next 3 years and after that, they can start fresh if they choose.

2-ONE-5
03-08-2013, 12:41 PM
did i really just see the word unstoppable used to describe Amere? c'mon! is he playin better lately, yes. But he is playing the majority of his minutes against backups too. Gotta wait til the playoffs to see if he can coincide with Melo (highly doubtful)

ewing
03-08-2013, 12:43 PM
I can come up with many others but it is what it is. Knicks fans want Amare back to his old form since they are paying him 20 million a year. Thats understandable but its still too soon to tell IMO. I feel alot more confident saying David West is back than saying Amares back at this point.


No you can't unless you go back to the first 5 to 10 games he came back. Amare is playing well. He is shooting 58% for the season and averaging 14 in 22 mins. Given looks, he will score regardless of the fact that he only scored 7 against the Pacers in a game that wasn't competitive from the start and where he only got 5 attempts


The mins limit makes you wonder how much his body can take but he is a much improved defender this year, even though the effort sometimes results in him picking up quick fouls, he has been very impressive in the low post, and is starting to utilize his mid range game. Is he having the impact that you would reward with a 20 mil contract? No, not even close but is averaging 14 in 22 mins a night and is just starting to be featured. . Amare has always been able to put the ball in the basket that has not changed.

NYCkid12
03-08-2013, 12:52 PM
That's how it goes when you sign multiple high dollar players. They are going all in for the next 3 years and after that, they can start fresh if they choose.

I agree, even in that last season if they feel they're not in title contention you can move the expiring deals on the books

D-Leethal
03-08-2013, 12:58 PM
I wouldn't say hes 'back', hes different. This is Amare 2.0, similar to Larry Johnson 2.0 that went from high flyer to post up forward on the Knicks. Hes transformed his game to be more efficient and very effective on limited touches, but hes not a guy who can shoulder the #1 option scoring load for a title contender anymore, I think the 40 point outbursts are a thing of the past.

This is a different Amare, and kudos to him for overcoming injury after injury after injury and coming back strong. Guy takes care of his body better than anyone in this league with his rigorous training and dieting. Hes had some of the biggest 'career killer' injuries to knees, backs, and almost went blind, yet still comes back for more. Dude is a warrior despite his shortcomings on D or at-times hard to watch forced offense. I think thats why NYK fans shower him with standing O's every time he checks in even though they get frustrated with his game at times and cap-killing contract.

ewing
03-08-2013, 01:54 PM
I wouldn't say hes 'back', hes different. This is Amare 2.0, similar to Larry Johnson 2.0 that went from high flyer to post up forward on the Knicks. Hes transformed his game to be more efficient and very effective on limited touches, but hes not a guy who can shoulder the #1 option scoring load for a title contender anymore, I think the 40 point outbursts are a thing of the past.

This is a different Amare, and kudos to him for overcoming injury after injury after injury and coming back strong. Guy takes care of his body better than anyone in this league with his rigorous training and dieting. Hes had some of the biggest 'career killer' injuries to knees, backs, and almost went blind, yet still comes back for more. Dude is a warrior despite his shortcomings on D or at-times hard to watch forced offense. I think thats why NYK fans shower him with standing O's every time he checks in even though they get frustrated with his game at times and cap-killing contract.

Why don't you think Amare can score 40 on a given night?

Chronz
03-08-2013, 02:07 PM
LOL at his Defense being "much improved".

Its hilarious how many Knick stars have "much improved" defense yet the team has suffered the most on that end this year.

On topic, hes looked great, I wouldn't start him just yet because of his defensive lapses and the need to prioritize Melo.

D-Leethal
03-08-2013, 02:15 PM
LOL at his Defense being "much improved".

Its hilarious how many Knick stars have "much improved" defense yet the team has suffered the most on that end this year.

On topic, hes looked great, I wouldn't start him just yet because of his defensive lapses and the need to prioritize Melo.

Knicks fans understand our D is a matter of effort. Pretty sure our second half/4th quarter D has been top 10 all year long, its the first half D that is atrocious, but we've shown we can lock it down when we have to. Its something that is somewhat expected with the vets and guys with questionable long term focus like Melo, JR, STAT. These guys get up for big games and get up when they are losing to crappy teams but over the course of the 82 game season they coast a ton and it shows.

I don't think Amare's D is much improved, but he definitely appears to be more aware and in tune out there on D.

D-Leethal
03-08-2013, 02:18 PM
Why don't you think Amare can score 40 on a given night?

I don't think hes capable of that sort of outburst, I don't think you can forcefeed him that many touches without him losing his effciency and effectiveness. He still has very awkward moments out there offensively and sucks on his faceup 1 on 1 moves, I don't think you can get him in proper position to score enough times over the course of a game to drop 40. He has to work too hard when its a 15 foot iso situation and isn't very good in those situations, and his teammates have to work too hard to set him up in scoring position to get him the touches required to drop 40.

It would probably take him being completely lights out with that jumper and I just don't see it happening at this point.

Maybe on a special night but I was more or less stating his days of being a 25 ppg guy and shouldering a huge offensive load over a season, with 40 point outbursts on the reg like we see from guys like Melo are pretty much over. This Amare isn't the PHX Amare.

ewing
03-08-2013, 02:24 PM
I don't think hes capable of that sort of outburst, I don't think you can forcefeed him that many touches without him losing his effciency and effectiveness. He still has very awkward moments out there offensively and sucks on his faceup 1 on 1 moves, I don't think you can get him in proper position to score enough times over the course of a game to drop 40. He has to work too hard when its a 15 foot iso situation and isn't very good in those situations, and his teammates have to work too hard to set him up in scoring position to get him the touches required to drop 40.

It would probably take him being completely lights out with that jumper and I just don't see it happening at this point.


I guess what i'm asking is what do you think he has lost offensively? I think if anything right now he is better at putting it on the floor in isolation then he was when he came to NY.

Matrix3132
03-08-2013, 02:29 PM
Knicks fans understand our D is a matter of effort. Pretty sure our second half/4th quarter D has been top 10 all year long, its the first half D that is atrocious, but we've shown we can lock it down when we have to. Its something that is somewhat expected with the vets and guys with questionable long term focus like Melo, JR, STAT. These guys get up for big games and get up when they are losing to crappy teams but over the course of the 82 game season they coast a ton and it shows.

I don't think Amare's D is much improved, but he definitely appears to be more aware and in tune out there on D.

Aside from amare in phoenix, what big games have they ever played? Big games don't start until at least the second round of the playoffs.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-08-2013, 02:30 PM
knicks are 16-14 with amare

NYCkid12
03-08-2013, 02:35 PM
knicks are 16-14 with amare

This ... for some reason this team is not as good with Amare..

D-Leethal
03-08-2013, 02:41 PM
I guess what i'm asking is what do you think he has lost offensively? I think if anything right now he is better at putting it on the floor in isolation then he was when he came to NY.

I remember a guy that first came to NY who you could give the ball to in an iso when the offensive set comes up empty and say 'score'. It wasn't always the prettiest but I remember it being effective on top of having KG-like efficiency with his jumper. Nowadays to me it seems his jumper is hit or miss and he doesn't really take too many attempts or seem to confident in it, his iso's seem to be pretty horrid and end up in a turnover or a blocked shot more often than not. He seems to be a guy who's only really comfortable 10 feet and closer now.

It less about being quicker and a superior athlete than his opponent and more about having an extremely soft touch and a great flip hook with both hands around the basket.

ewing
03-08-2013, 02:41 PM
LOL at his Defense being "much improved".

Its hilarious how many Knick stars have "much improved" defense yet the team has suffered the most on that end this year.

On topic, hes looked great, I wouldn't start him just yet because of his defensive lapses and the need to prioritize Melo.


Amare used to avoid contact like the plague b/c he was scared of foul trouble. This season he is much more aggressive and physical on D. He still gets lost at times but he a better defended. If your going to discounted every opinion knick fans have solely b/c many knicks fans are over zealous about there players why even comment?

D-Leethal
03-08-2013, 02:42 PM
Aside from amare in phoenix, what big games have they ever played? Big games don't start until at least the second round of the playoffs.

Thanks for your personal definition of 'big games'. I meant 'big games' in context of the regular season, that should have been obvious.

D-Leethal
03-08-2013, 02:44 PM
knicks are 16-14 with amare

Thats more circumstantial than anything IMO. We started faltering before Amare got back.

ewing
03-08-2013, 02:45 PM
I remember a guy that first came to NY who you could give the ball to in an iso when the offensive set comes up empty and say 'score'. It wasn't always the prettiest but I remember it being effective on top of having KG-like efficiency with his jumper. Nowadays to me it seems his jumper is hit or miss and he doesn't really take too many attempts or seem to confident in it, his iso's seem to be pretty horrid and end up in a turnover or a blocked shot more often than not. He seems to be a guy who's only really comfortable 10 feet and closer now.

It less about being quicker and a superior athlete than his opponent and more about having an extremely soft touch and a great flip hook with both hands around the basket.

I agree he is missing that auto-matic 18 to 20 footer. I don't think that **** leaves. All Amare needs is reps. he can put the ball in the hole. I'm not even saying he should be the primary scorer on this team but dude can put the ball in the hole and i think your fooling yourself if you don't think he has enough game to potentially drop 40 in an NBA game

xxplayerxx23
03-08-2013, 02:46 PM
LOL at his Defense being "much improved".

Its hilarious how many Knick stars have "much improved" defense yet the team has suffered the most on that end this year.

On topic, hes looked great, I wouldn't start him just yet because of his defensive lapses and the need to prioritize Melo.

Well he isn't the worst defender in the league anymore lol. But I do agree with you, he is fine with his bench role

D-Leethal
03-08-2013, 02:51 PM
I agree he is missing that auto-matic 18 to 20 footer. I don't think that **** leaves. All Amare needs is reps. he can put the ball in the hole. I'm not even saying he should be the primary scorer on this team but dude can put the ball in the hole and i think your fooling yourself if you don't think he has enough game to potentially drop 40 in an NBA game

Hes capable of an outburst or 2 for 40 over the season. But the old Amare was dropping 40 on the reg, the same dude who has the Knicks record for consecutive 30 point games. I don't think that Amare is around anymore. I love Amare 2.0. Not hating just stating.

It can be said that THAT Amare and THOSE scoring outbursts had a lot to do with the Mike D system, and that THIS Amare in THAT system can still drop 40 on the reg. Thats probably a fair argument, I think its more than just the system though. I just don't see him as a bulk touches guy anymore.

Chronz
03-08-2013, 03:00 PM
Amare used to avoid contact like the plague b/c he was scared of foul trouble. This season he is much more aggressive and physical on D. He still gets lost at times but he a better defended. If your going to discounted every opinion knick fans have solely b/c many knicks fans are over zealous about there players why even comment?

Because I disagree with the comment.

sep11ie
03-08-2013, 03:02 PM
Knicks forum.

ewing
03-08-2013, 03:09 PM
Hes capable of an outburst or 2 for 40 over the season. But the old Amare was dropping 40 on the reg, the same dude who has the Knicks record for consecutive 30 point games. I don't think that Amare is around anymore. I love Amare 2.0. Not hating just stating.

It can be said that THAT Amare and THOSE scoring outbursts had a lot to do with the Mike D system, and that THIS Amare in THAT system can still drop 40 on the reg. Thats probably a fair argument, I think its more than just the system though. I just don't see him as a bulk touches guy anymore.

exactly, b/c of the team he is on and pace they play at not b/c of the player. Amare is just as capable of putting the ball in the hole as he ever was. Dude just needs reps on his J.

Missing56&33
03-08-2013, 03:38 PM
Amar'e has been moving around pretty good out there and hopefully he continues to get better going into the playoffs.

Pacerlive
03-08-2013, 03:57 PM
No you can't unless you go back to the first 5 to 10 games he came back. Amare is playing well. He is shooting 58% for the season and averaging 14 in 22 mins. Given looks, he will score regardless of the fact that he only scored 7 against the Pacers in a game that wasn't competitive from the start and where he only got 5 attempts


The mins limit makes you wonder how much his body can take but he is a much improved defender this year, even though the effort sometimes results in him picking up quick fouls, he has been very impressive in the low post, and is starting to utilize his mid range game. Is he having the impact that you would reward with a 20 mil contract? No, not even close but is averaging 14 in 22 mins a night and is just starting to be featured. . Amare has always been able to put the ball in the basket that has not changed.

Or I can just go back to the Thunder game yesterday unless you want to argue that going 5 of 16 is back to Amare's oldself...

D-Leethal
03-08-2013, 03:59 PM
Or I can just go back to the Thunder game yesterday unless you want to argue that going 5 of 16 is back to Amare's oldself...

Are NBA players not entitled to poor shooting nights against the best PF defender in the league?

Pacerlive
03-08-2013, 04:07 PM
Are NBA players not entitled to poor shooting nights against the best PF defender in the league?

Well see there in lies the point. Amare of old was almost impossible to stop and I don't think against good defenders he will be as consistent. I mean the Raptors held him check the game before the Pacers and the Amare of old would have ate up David West/Tyler Hansbrough or a combination of Amir Johnson/Bargs.

I am not saying he can't but its too soon to tell IMO hence the playoff comment I made.

D-Leethal
03-08-2013, 04:14 PM
Well see there in lies the point. Amare of old was almost impossible to stop and I don't think against good defenders he will be as consistent. I mean the Raptors held him check the game before the Pacers and the Amare of old would have ate up David West/Tyler Hansbrough or a combination of Amir Johnson/Bargs.

I am not saying he can't but its too soon to tell IMO hence the playoff comment I made.

Even Amare of old had his off nights and nights he didn't score efficiently. Every player in this league does.

ewing
03-08-2013, 04:16 PM
Or I can just go back to the Thunder game yesterday unless you want to argue that going 5 of 16 is back to Amare's oldself...

he had a game where he didn't shoot 50%, big deal. The guy is shooting 58% for the season and he had 18 and 8 last night. It wasn't a bad game for Amare at all. Serge is a tough match up for him. Amare normally has a physical advantage when it comes to size or speed. I wasn't surprised that it was a little more of a grinding game scoring wise for Amare at all. Amare isn't the player he was 2 years ago yet but your one game examples are dumb and lazy

Pacerlive
03-08-2013, 05:21 PM
he had a game where he didn't shoot 50%, big deal. The guy is shooting 58% for the season and he had 18 and 8 last night. It wasn't a bad game for Amare at all. Serge is a tough match up for him. Amare normally has a physical advantage when it comes to size or speed. I wasn't surprised that it was a little more of a grinding game scoring wise for Amare at all. Amare isn't the player he was 2 years ago yet but your one game examples are dumb and lazy

ITs funny how one game examples have turned into 3. IF you want to harp on my examples of him not being back then fine.. That 58% field goal percentange is against mainly backup pfs where he should have a clear cut adavantage in every game. Its lazy not to consider that fact.

Amare was a great player and now he is a good player that can have moments of greatness. IF he is fully back then those moments will be a lot more and against good defenses. I haven't seen that and based on your bolded comment neither have you.

ewing
03-08-2013, 08:12 PM
ITs funny how one game examples have turned into 3. IF you want to harp on my examples of him not being back then fine.. That 58% field goal percentange is against mainly backup pfs where he should have a clear cut adavantage in every game. Its lazy not to consider that fact.

Amare was a great player and now he is a good player that can have moments of greatness. IF he is fully back then those moments will be a lot more and against good defenses. I haven't seen that and based on your bolded comment neither have you.

I will harp, you cant picking out his only 3 bad shooting nights since Feb 1st and use those 3 games to describe what type of player he is. It makes no sense. If you have something to say about his current skill set or abilities in relation to the player he was go ahead.

jimm120
03-08-2013, 08:42 PM
between amare and dwight, both students of hakeem, it's obvious who has an offensive game.
also equally obvious who has a defensive game, lol.
Dwight has had two hall of fame centers coach him and still nothing.

Ewing helped Yao reach those heights. Ewing could barely help Dwight. Hakeem couldn't help Dwight.

Amare definitely benefited.

DumDum
03-09-2013, 04:38 AM
Are you talking about the guys same guy who plays for the the Knicks lol

JEDean89
03-09-2013, 06:59 AM
amare is the type of player who if he was healthy, would be at top 5 guy in the league. he is like dwight howard but can face up and hit free throws, which is probably the strongest part of his game. i think he is smart to play on the ground but look, he has had what, 30 games since his training with hakeem? post moves don't come to a player overnight or over the course of a season but over years of working on it and game experience which amare doesn't have yet he has shown at least the ability to be a post threat now. i mean his FG% is like Lebron James and is much improved over last season. give him until the end of next season to judge his post game, my bet is that if he is healthy, the amare we see next year will again be much improved in the post.

D-Leethal
03-09-2013, 08:46 AM
Are you talking about the guys same guy who plays for the the Knicks lol

Nice contribution to the thread brah. Very insightful.

rayray1993
03-09-2013, 09:41 AM
I see people bringing up the thunder game mostly against ibaka but, didn't Amar'e get ibaka into foul trouble the whole game

Pacerlive
03-10-2013, 12:32 AM
I will harp, you cant picking out his only 3 bad shooting nights since Feb 1st and use those 3 games to describe what type of player he is. It makes no sense. If you have something to say about his current skill set or abilities in relation to the player he was go ahead.

I think his current skill set is drastically affected by solid defense. In the past that wasn't the case but we could contribute that to playing under a different coach. I don't think he is back and he again is set back with another injury go figure. Maybe we will never know but either way nothing you stated would even suggest he is back.

If he starts and plays just as well then I will think he is back but as of right now we will have to wait 6 to 8 weeks yet again to know.

Collings94
03-10-2013, 12:35 AM
Knick fans tried to talk themselves into Amare in order to justify giving him a ridiculous contract, when in reality if he is your best player, your going no where in the playoffs.

Collings94
03-10-2013, 12:37 AM
amare is the type of player who if he was healthy, would be at top 5 guy in the league. he is like dwight howard.

What?????? There is this thing called defense that guys have to play in the NBA, you are aware of that right?

Pacerlive
03-10-2013, 12:39 AM
Knick fans tried to talk themselves into Amare in order to justify giving him a ridiculous contract, when in reality if he is your best player, your going no where in the playoffs.

I don't think anyone thinks he is their best player but he is their third best player and he can't stay healthy for whatever reason. For 20 million he is more of a hinderance than a help since they can't do a sign and trade or offer anything outside of the mini MLE to improve their roster.

Collings94
03-10-2013, 01:39 AM
I don't think anyone thinks he is their best player but he is their third best player and he can't stay healthy for whatever reason. For 20 million he is more of a hinderance than a help since they can't do a sign and trade or offer anything outside of the mini MLE to improve their roster.

I just can't wrap my head around what some of these people are saying about how good Amare can be. Ever since his rookie year he has been overrated. The knicks gave him an absurd contract because they struck out on Lebron/Wade, so NY fans tried to talk themselves into thinking that they too, got a franchise player when in reality they got an injury prone, one-way player who has an UNINSURED contract.

Jesse2272
03-10-2013, 04:46 AM
I see people bringing up the thunder game mostly against ibaka but, didn't Amar'e get ibaka into foul trouble the whole game

all I remember was the facial he gave Ibaka

Jesse2272
03-10-2013, 04:47 AM
I just can't wrap my head around what some of these people are saying about how good Amare can be. Ever since his rookie year he has been overrated. The knicks gave him an absurd contract because they struck out on Lebron/Wade, so NY fans tried to talk themselves into thinking that they too, got a franchise player when in reality they got an injury prone, one-way player who has an UNINSURED contract.
get a life dude its not that serious