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View Full Version : Which of These Point Guards Would You Want to Build Your Team Around?



papipapsmanny
03-05-2013, 12:53 AM
All of these guys are in the stage of their careers where we aren't sure what to make of them quite yet.

Holiday and Jennings have played the most games so far.

Rubio, Knight, and Thomas playing in the least games so far, and Wall and Bledsoe in between.

Who, if you had to start with one of them, would you want to build your team around going forward?

justinnum1
03-05-2013, 01:16 AM
rubio.

OceanSpray
03-05-2013, 01:28 AM
Holiday and not even close.

DDynO
03-05-2013, 01:29 AM
Holiday. Pretty easy choice for me.

AWC713
03-05-2013, 01:39 AM
holiday. dude is cold blooded

KingPosey
03-05-2013, 01:59 AM
Vasquez was slept on in college and still in the pros. Offensively, he has been what Rubio was gassed up to be in a lot of aspects.
I have been waiting for someone to notice him for years and he just seems to be missed. He is ****ing talented.

More-Than-Most
03-05-2013, 02:07 AM
I have a massive massive man crush on Holiday

PrettyBoyJ
03-05-2013, 02:10 AM
I'll go with John Wall because his upside is greater than any of the choices

Sactown
03-05-2013, 02:16 AM
John Wall
Jrue Holliday
Rubio
Bledsoe
Jennings
Knight
Thomas

And seriously no appreciation for G. Vasquez?

papipapsmanny
03-05-2013, 02:30 AM
To be Fair Vazquez is 26 all of these guys are 23 and under

3RDASYSTEM
03-05-2013, 02:31 AM
Based on what I've seen so far from these players my choices would be

JENNINGS-HOLIDAY-BLEDSOE in no order but I prefer JENNINGS or BLEDSOE as my top if push came to shove

Sactown
03-05-2013, 02:36 AM
Switching my answer to DeMarcus "Magic" Cousins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqrlCEjJs7Y

DumDum
03-05-2013, 05:56 AM
Rubio hands and feet above the rest. Prove me wrong :shush::shush::shush:

netsgiantsyanks
03-05-2013, 06:20 AM
it's a mix up between rubio and holiday.

Raidaz4Life
03-05-2013, 07:12 AM
I'd take Rubio or Holiday.

hidalgo
03-05-2013, 07:57 AM
Isaiah Thomas the Pistons hall of famer

MRF420
03-05-2013, 07:58 AM
Rubio or Holiday
Jennings / Wall
Bledsoe
Thomas
Knight ( not able to run a team, plays sg)

this would be my order. rubio or holiday depends on the supporting cast.

FraziersKnicks
03-05-2013, 08:14 AM
Kyrie.Andrew.Irving

...or Jrue Holiday

Swashcuff
03-05-2013, 10:24 AM
Based on what we know about their careers gotta Holiday IMO. I'm biased but he's not as big of a health concern as Wall and Rubio, he's every bit as good as they are on the defensive end better offensively and just as capable a playmaker. Jrue. If we're going based on potential however I do believe that Wall still has the highest ceiling of the bunch

ManningToTyree
03-05-2013, 10:25 AM
Holiday

JiffyMix88
03-05-2013, 10:45 AM
I chose John Wall because of his athleticism and he will only improve his game. Rubios just got so much talent and skill sets already that it was tough choosing Wall over him but I think Wall will be the better player in the long run.

papipapsmanny
03-05-2013, 12:46 PM
I like Wall and Holiday the best and then Bledsoe

Dade County
03-05-2013, 12:53 PM
Eric Bledsoe

IgglesFanInCO
03-05-2013, 02:24 PM
Holiday is the best of them right now, but personally im a sucker for potential so i would go Rubio if im building a team

NoahH
03-05-2013, 02:26 PM
LOL So far no one has voted for Brandon Jennings

Why include Jennings / Holiday but not Curry tho? same draft year

Kuya_Clive
03-05-2013, 02:41 PM
Jrue is probably the best out of his group right now and he can still get better. Wall has the most potential out of this group. I'd go with those two first and I'd put Rubio third.

ManRam
03-05-2013, 02:44 PM
1. I wouldn't build my team around any of these guys.
2. I'd most want Holiday on my team. Wall and Rubio after that.

garyraymond23
03-05-2013, 03:01 PM
Rubio without any hesitation.

papipapsmanny
03-05-2013, 03:24 PM
Interesting that Rubio has more votes than Wall, imo at least

papipapsmanny
03-05-2013, 03:25 PM
LOL So far no one has voted for Brandon Jennings

Why include Jennings / Holiday but not Curry tho? same draft year

Because Curry has proven to be an efficient scorer and a good player. All of these guys really haven't (with the exception of holiday this year)

ChiSox219
03-05-2013, 03:27 PM
Rubio because his offensive creation is all about getting his teammates good looks which means you have a little bit more flexibility with the offense needed from other positions. Rubio's also an excellent defender, should be all defense soon.

yaswaggin
03-05-2013, 03:33 PM
Jrue and thats unbiased even though im a sixers fan

everyone on this list didnt prove to be in the talks of elite pgs yet EXCEPT for jrue holiday

PG tier 1: CP3, Kyrie, Rose, Parker, Westbrook (in that order)

PG tier 2: Curry, Holiday, Rondo, Nash (in that order)

PG tier 3: Lawson, Deron, Lillard, Wall (in no order)

PG tier 4: Knight, Rubio, Vasquez, Jennings, Thomas(in no order)

PG tier 5: Conley, Teague, Dragic, Bledsoe (in no order)

everyone else i either forgot to mention on top of my head or is meh

Guppyfighter
03-05-2013, 03:38 PM
Holiday's stats vs the worst teams compared to the best teams is the worst differential in the league. He literally pads his stats vs bad teams while playing awful vs good teams.

I'd build around Bledsoe or Rubio. Ceiling wise.

NoahH
03-05-2013, 03:39 PM
Jrue and thats unbiased even though im a sixers fan

everyone on this list didnt prove to be in the talks of elite pgs yet EXCEPT for jrue holiday

PG tier 1: CP3, Kyrie, Rose, Parker, Westbrook (in that order)

PG tier 2: Curry, Holiday, Rondo, Nash (in that order)

PG tier 3: Lawson, Deron, Lillard, Wall (in no order)

PG tier 4: Knight, Rubio, Vasquez, Jennings, Thomas(in no order)

PG tier 5: Conley, Teague, Dragic, Bledsoe (in no order)

everyone else i either forgot to mention on top of my head or is meh

Arguably Deron is in tier 2 (hes injured this year). Also I think Dragic, Conley are better than Knight and Thomas. Also I think Nash is too high atm.

PG tier 1: CP3, Kyrie, Rose, Parker, Westbrook (in that order)

PG tier 2: Curry, Holiday, Rondo, Deron (in that order)

PG tier 3: Lawson, Nash, Lillard, Wall, G. Hill (in no order)

PG tier 4: Dragic, Rubio, Vasquez, Jennings, Conley(in no order)

PG tier 5: Knight, Teague, Thomas, Bledsoe (in no order)

thats mine

EDIT: FORGOT GEORGE HILL

Guppyfighter
03-05-2013, 03:41 PM
Kyrie is not ahead of Parker, Rose, and Wrestbrook until he learns how to play defense.

Swashcuff
03-05-2013, 03:59 PM
Holiday's stats vs the worst teams compared to the best teams is the worst differential in the league. He literally pads his stats vs bad teams while playing awful vs good teams.

I'd build around Bledsoe or Rubio. Ceiling wise.

No more foolish statement than this right here.

I dare you to back this claim up. As a matter of a fact this is actually the opposite but lets see you back this up.

Oh and as good as Bledsoe is and as much as I've been on his bandwagon he's no where near John Wall in terms of ceiling.

D-Leethal
03-05-2013, 04:00 PM
Rubio, Jrue and possibly Bledsoe.

ChiTownPacerFan
03-05-2013, 04:19 PM
Jrue and thats unbiased even though im a sixers fan

everyone on this list didnt prove to be in the talks of elite pgs yet EXCEPT for jrue holiday

PG tier 1: CP3, Kyrie, Rose, Parker, Westbrook (in that order)

PG tier 2: Curry, Holiday, Rondo, Nash (in that order)

PG tier 3: Lawson, Deron, Lillard, Wall (in no order)

PG tier 4: Knight, Rubio, Vasquez, Jennings, Thomas(in no order)

PG tier 5: Conley, Teague, Dragic, Bledsoe (in no order)

everyone else i either forgot to mention on top of my head or is meh



Arguably Deron is in tier 2 (hes injured this year). Also I think Dragic, Conley are better than Knight and Thomas. Also I think Nash is too high atm.

PG tier 1: CP3, Kyrie, Rose, Parker, Westbrook (in that order)

PG tier 2: Curry, Holiday, Rondo, Deron (in that order)

PG tier 3: Lawson, Nash, Lillard, Wall (in no order)

PG tier 4: Dragic, Rubio, Vasquez, Jennings, Conley(in no order)

PG tier 5: Knight, Teague, Thomas, Bledsoe (in no order)

thats mine

George Hill gets slept on so hard! SMDH

SOS
03-05-2013, 04:21 PM
I'd take John Wall for the potential

NoahH
03-05-2013, 04:29 PM
George Hill gets slept on so hard! SMDH

my bad i added him

Guppyfighter
03-05-2013, 05:29 PM
No more foolish statement than this right here.

I dare you to back this claim up. As a matter of a fact this is actually the opposite but lets see you back this up.

Oh and as good as Bledsoe is and as much as I've been on his bandwagon he's no where near John Wall in terms of ceiling.

Jrue gets an average boost of 9.52 percent against the top 8 worst defenses in the league. That's the highest in the league. It's severe inflation. Especially when he gets -8 percent in his stats vs top 8 defenses. It's the biggest differential between those in the league.

http://www.bballbreakdown.com/are-kevin-durant-and-lebron-james-really-the-best-scorers-in-the-nba/

Alayla
03-05-2013, 05:36 PM
Jrue gets an average boost of 9.52 percent against the top 8 worst defenses in the league. That's the highest in the league. It's severe inflation. Especially when he gets -8 percent in his stats vs top 8 defenses. It's the biggest differential between those in the league.

http://www.bballbreakdown.com/are-kevin-durant-and-lebron-james-really-the-best-scorers-in-the-nba/

Im not going to aruge with that because frankly i dont know enough to get into it but

Tell me even if it where the case why does it matter?

Its not like Jrue is exactly on a good team or anything

It stands to reason he is going to struggle more agiesnt better teams.

Have you seen how mad the sixers front court is? it makes it so easy for Defenses to Trap Jrue all game long because no one is a big enough threat to stop it.

Guppyfighter
03-05-2013, 05:38 PM
Im not going to aruge with that because frankly i dont know enough to get into it but

Tell me even if it where the case why does it matter?

Its not like Jrue is exactly on a good team or anything

It stands to reason he is going to struggle more agiesnt better teams.

Have you seen how mad the sixers front court is? it makes it so easy for Defenses to Trap Jrue all game long because no one is a big enough threat to stop it.

It's the second biggest differential in stats, which is pretty telling. Wade is higher, but that's because he puts up much better stats so his drop is not as noticeable or severe because this is basically just comparing yourself to yourself.

It's also why I don't consider Kyrie ahead of some of the other top PG's (Yet) in terms of offense, because he has a huge differential too as well in that category.

I like Jrue and I think he has a bright future, but I don't think he is someone you can build around for a team that is going to be a super competitive playoff team. I don't think he can be your best player.

Alayla
03-05-2013, 05:41 PM
It's the second biggest differential in stats, which is pretty telling. Wade is higher, but that's because he puts up much better stats so his drop is not as noticeable or severe because this is basically just comparing yourself to yourself.

It's also why I don't consider Kyrie ahead of some of the other top PG's (Yet) in terms of offense, because he has a huge differential too as well in that category.

Thats just too narrow minded PGs with weak support are not going to do well facing strong teams thats common sense.

Alayla
03-05-2013, 05:44 PM
That being said I really haven't been happy with Jrue post all-star break he seems like hes just breaking down. Settling for more jumpers and generally just not playing as well. But overall this year he has still played far better than anyone on this poll.

Guppyfighter
03-05-2013, 05:44 PM
Thats just too narrow minded PGs with weak support are not going to do well facing strong teams thats common sense.

Wouldn't they not get a big as boost against bad defenses as well? They are still focusing their energy on that player the most. Wouldn't his boost against bad defenses be smaller?

Guppyfighter
03-05-2013, 05:45 PM
That being said I really haven't been happy with Jrue post all-star break he seems like hes just breaking down. Settling for more jumpers and generally just not playing as well. But overall this year he has still played far better than anyone on this poll.

Dog days of the NBA for a team out of the playoff race is probably why he is settling for jumpers and ****.

ManRam
03-05-2013, 05:48 PM
I think I'm lower on Rubio than just about anyone else.

But I'm racist against ultra pass-first PGs I think

Alayla
03-05-2013, 05:51 PM
Just the opposite the reason the stat exists is because its easy to score on weaker teams hell thats the whole basis behind your point right?
Better teams tend to take better approaches to defending players than weaker ones thats not really rocket science,

In Jrues case all you need to do to shut him down is relentlessly trap him all night and force a few turnovers

Im not as sure with Irving because i dont watch him nearly as much but im sure defenses have figured him out by now too its the nature of the game and when your talking about players so young who have yet too master the art of composer its not fair to ask them to do things alone

Actually im a firm believer that if you surround any good point guard with total **** they will struggle with the exception of maybe CP3 people forget this is a team game

Guppyfighter
03-05-2013, 05:54 PM
I agree it's a team game, but out of all the young PG's he has the worst drop off from the top eight defenses.

Alayla
03-05-2013, 05:55 PM
Also what am i missing with people talking Rubio over Wall? thats bad **** crazy if you ask me.
I mean i know hes underwhelming for a number 1 pick but hes better than Rubio people.
If not now then very very soon.

Guppyfighter
03-05-2013, 05:56 PM
Also what am i missing with people talking Rubio over Wall? thats bad **** crazy if you ask me.
I mean i know hes underwhelming for a number 1 pick but hes better than Rubio people.
If not now then very very soon.

I picked Rubio over Wall because I think Rubio will end up better. Rubio is an elite defender and passer. I think Wall only has athleticism on him, I don't think he will ever be a great defender and at best a good passer.

Alayla
03-05-2013, 05:58 PM
I agree it's a team game, but out of all the young PG's he has the worst drop off from the top eight defenses.

Thats to expected take a look at the roster around him.
Not a single Legitimate starter outside of holiday IMO people can cry Thad all they want but his best role is a 6th man off the bench or maybe being the weakest link in an otherwise very strong starting 5

Turner isnt there yet eather in fact Turner looks like a rotational player in this league.

And dont get me started on Nick young lol

Swashcuff
03-05-2013, 05:58 PM
Jrue gets an average boost of 9.52 percent against the top 8 worst defenses in the league. That's the highest in the league. It's severe inflation. Especially when he gets -8 percent in his stats vs top 8 defenses. It's the biggest differential between those in the league.

http://www.bballbreakdown.com/are-kevin-durant-and-lebron-james-really-the-best-scorers-in-the-nba/

And how on earth does that correlate with the garbage in which you spewed?

How about the fact that Jrue averages 19 an 8 against the East while averaging 19 and 9 against the West? Or the fact that he averages more against the top teams in the East than the bottom teams? How about that?

Vs NYK : 27.3 ppg, 6.5 apg
Vs GSW : 24.0 ppg, 8.5 apg
Vs LAL : 26.0 ppg, 10.0 apg
Vs MIA : 21.0 ppg, 6.0 apg
Vs BKN : 21.5 ppg, 8.5 apg
Vs CHI: 23.7 ppg, 6.3 apg

Its only basic common sense that your PPG would take a hit against the better defensive teams in the league. Those teams tend to play at a slower pace (we're already one of the slowest pace teams in the league as it is) an are the better defensive teams for a reason.

You said Jrue pads his stats against the weaker teams and struggle against the stronger ones well quite honestly that couldn't be more untrue.

bigsams50
03-05-2013, 05:58 PM
Kemba continues to get no love. I consider him better then Knight and Thomas.

Alayla
03-05-2013, 05:59 PM
I picked Rubio over Wall because I think Rubio will end up better. Rubio is an elite defender and passer. I think Wall only has athleticism on him, I don't think he will ever be a great defender and at best a good passer.

I think thats going to remain the extent of his game

Alayla
03-05-2013, 05:59 PM
Kemba continues to get no love. I consider him better then Knight and Thomas.

argeed its becuase people cant be assed to wacth the bobcats lol

Alayla
03-05-2013, 06:01 PM
And how on earth does that correlate with the garbage in which you spewed?

How about the fact that Jrue averages 19 an 8 against the East while averaging 19 and 9 against the West? Or the fact that he averages more against the top teams in the East than the bottom teams? How about that?

Vs NYK : 27.3 ppg, 6.5 apg
Vs GSW : 24.0 ppg, 8.5 apg
Vs LAL : 26.0 ppg, 10.0 apg
Vs MIA : 21.0 ppg, 6.0 apg
Vs BKN : 21.5 ppg, 8.5 apg
Vs CHI: 23.7 ppg, 6.3 apg

Its only basic common sense that your PPG would take a hit against the better defensive teams in the league. Those teams tend to play at a slower pace (we're already one of the slowest pace teams in the league as it is) an are the better defensive teams for a reason.

You said Jrue pads his stats against the weaker teams and struggle against the stronger ones well quite honestly that couldn't be more untrue.

Man you HAVE to teach me where you learned to aruge haha

Guppyfighter
03-05-2013, 06:01 PM
And how on earth does that correlate with the garbage in which you spewed?

How about the fact that Jrue averages 19 an 8 against the East while averaging 19 and 9 against the West? Or the fact that he averages more against the top teams in the East than the bottom teams? How about that?

Vs NYK : 27.3 ppg, 6.5 apg
Vs GSW : 24.0 ppg, 8.5 apg
Vs LAL : 26.0 ppg, 10.0 apg
Vs MIA : 21.0 ppg, 6.0 apg
Vs BKN : 21.5 ppg, 8.5 apg
Vs CHI: 23.7 ppg, 6.3 apg

Its only basic common sense that your PPG would take a hit against the better defensive teams in the league. Those teams tend to play at a slower pace (we're already one of the slowest pace teams in the league as it is) an are the better defensive teams for a reason.

You said Jrue pads his stats against the weaker teams and struggle against the stronger ones well quite honestly that couldn't be more untrue.

You chose a six game sample to try to dispute an entire season worth?

bigsams50
03-05-2013, 06:03 PM
argeed its becuase people cant be assed to wacth the bobcats lol

lol cold, but true. I have watched most of their games, (living it greece sometimes the time difference just ****s me) and i have to say Kemba is playing much improved this season.

Alayla
03-05-2013, 06:04 PM
You chose a six game sample to try to dispute an entire season worth?

Your aware teams play each other more than once right? not to mention his point totally went over your head.

Guppyfighter
03-05-2013, 06:06 PM
It didn't go over my head and fair enough, he is still using a small sample either way.

Alayla
03-05-2013, 06:06 PM
lol cold, but true. I have watched most of their games, (living it greece sometimes the time difference just ****s me) and i have to say Kemba is playing much improved this season.

I still feel bad for you guys picking MKG over Barnes though Kemba+Barnes would be a hell of a thing to wacth but yea Kemba is a player its just unfortunate how deep the position he plays in is.
Id say about 3 more drafts from now you guys will crack the playoffs again.

Swashcuff
03-05-2013, 06:10 PM
It's the second biggest differential in stats, which is pretty telling. Wade is higher, but that's because he puts up much better stats so his drop is not as noticeable or severe because this is basically just comparing yourself to yourself.

It's also why I don't consider Kyrie ahead of some of the other top PG's (Yet) in terms of offense, because he has a huge differential too as well in that category.

I like Jrue and I think he has a bright future, but I don't think he is someone you can build around for a team that is going to be a super competitive playoff team. I don't think he can be your best player.

Lets test this theory.

Kyrie and Jrue are #1 and #2 right? Now tell me what are some of the hallmarks of top tier defensive teams? Solid interior D, fairly decent perimeter D, ability to throw multiple defenders at you, able to focus on not letting the opposing team's best player beat them etc

Now tell me when you're on a team where you're virtually the only offensive thread and you come up against a top calibre defensive unit what's going to happen most likely? Wouldn't this team's D focus on you? Wouldn't said team have a MUCH easier time at doing that when your team has limited offensive option? Wouldn't it be even harder for the player who has to be his team's #1 scoring, shot creator an playmaker on every single night? Now tell me wouldn't a bad supporting cast hurt a player in these ways just as they'd help in allow one to "pad their stats"?

You don't think its by chance that great offensive teams score more points against great defensive teams than poor offensive teams do? Wouldn't it reflect such on each player?

Point of all these questions is this its easier to lock down a player who on 3 nights out of 4 has no real offensive help (as is the case with Kyrie an Jrue) than it is to put the clamps on someone who has a boat load of help on that end of the floor. These things aren't by chance its damn near certain to happen. When one puts the stats in which they analyze into context they see these things more clearly.

Alayla
03-05-2013, 06:10 PM
It didn't go over my head and fair enough, he is still using a small sample either way.

Seeing as this whole season is still a small sample size id say its unreasonable to expect him not too hell for all we know Holidays season could be a fluke and he could go the way of Devin Harris

But really how many examples do you expect of good teams we have played when the season is 25 games away from over. Thats a pretty limited pool of games to begin with.

bigsams50
03-05-2013, 06:12 PM
I still feel bad for you guys picking MKG over Barnes though Kemba+Barnes would be a hell of a thing to wacth but yea Kemba is a player its just unfortunate how deep the position he plays in is.
Id say about 3 more drafts from now you guys will crack the playoffs again.

I like MKG. I'm more dissapointed on potentially missing out on a beast like Drummond. And we have a while before we can even think of playoffs lol

Alayla
03-05-2013, 06:15 PM
I like MKG. I'm more dissapointed on potentially missing out on a beast like Drummond. And we have a while before we can even think of playoffs lol

Nah the talent is there its just going to take a couple years before everything gets figured out id say you guys are 2 strong draft choices away or 3 decent ones

Swashcuff
03-05-2013, 06:16 PM
You chose a six game sample to try to dispute an entire season worth?

Actually its a 13 game sample size against 6 teams who have a combined .652 winning % against eastern conference opponents (you know the conference in which Jrue plays in). You said that Jrue plays bad against good teams that's not true.

Alayla
03-05-2013, 06:17 PM
I like MKG. I'm more dissapointed on potentially missing out on a beast like Drummond. And we have a while before we can even think of playoffs lol

Oh and you cant really blame your FO for not watching to bark up that tree he would have been a risk reward to begin with and would have been a massive stretch at 2 imo Barnes actually had the talent to be a defensible choice at 2.

Swashcuff
03-05-2013, 06:17 PM
It didn't go over my head and fair enough, he is still using a small sample either way.

How does his play against 6 teams make it a small sample size but his play against 8 teams isn't? :confused:

bigsams50
03-05-2013, 06:17 PM
Nah the talent is there its just going to take a couple years before everything gets figured out id say you guys are 2 strong draft choices away or 3 decent ones

I hope so. We really can't afford to draft anymore busts lol I want Shabazz :pray:

Alayla
03-05-2013, 06:19 PM
Actually its a 13 game sample size against 6 teams who have a combined .652 winning % against eastern conference opponents (you know the conference in which Jrue plays in). You said that Jrue plays bad against good teams that's not true.

out of curiosity how do those numbers for above .500 teams look out west?

Alayla
03-05-2013, 06:21 PM
I hope so. We really can't afford to draft anymore busts lol I want Shabazz :pray:

Personally i would like to see you guys pick of noel i think a frontcourt of noel and biyombo would work nicely

JasonJohnHorn
03-05-2013, 06:22 PM
I wnet with Holiday because he is currently the best player of the group. Rubio was my next choice, I love his play making ability and defence, but he needs to learn how to shoot the ball, or if not, at least learn when to not shoot the ball (like Rondo).

Wall... also a horrible shooter, but not nearly as good a defender of play makers as rubio. I don't expect him to be starting past his rookie contract. Thomas is simply too small. He's going to struggle to keep rotation minutes in the league. Jennings? A very talented player, but I'm not sure his play making skills are where they need to be. I mean, he's got a pretty talented roster around him and they are struggling to make the playoffs so building around him would be difficult. Knight... I'm still upset Dumars drafted him ahead of Klay! and Bledsoe, from what I have seen is a combo guard. He's more ideal for coming off the bench than starting, so I wouldn't build around him.


Holiday is the clear pick here in my eyes. Rubio, if he was a better shooter would be the obvious pick though.

Alayla
03-05-2013, 06:26 PM
I wnet with Holiday because he is currently the best player of the group. Rubio was my next choice, I love his play making ability and defence, but he needs to learn how to shoot the ball, or if not, at least learn when to not shoot the ball (like Rondo).

Wall... also a horrible shooter, but not nearly as good a defender of play makers as rubio. I don't expect him to be starting past his rookie contract. Thomas is simply too small. He's going to struggle to keep rotation minutes in the league. Jennings? A very talented player, but I'm not sure his play making skills are where they need to be. I mean, he's got a pretty talented roster around him and they are struggling to make the playoffs so building around him would be difficult. Knight... I'm still upset Dumars drafted him ahead of Klay! and Bledsoe, from what I have seen is a combo guard. He's more ideal for coming off the bench than starting, so I wouldn't build around him.


Holiday is the clear pick here in my eyes. Rubio, if he was a better shooter would be the obvious pick though.

heh.. im not a big Jennings fan but the bucks are not talented Any team centered around Monte Ellis is bound to struggle imo

Swashcuff
03-05-2013, 06:30 PM
out of curiosity how do those numbers for above .500 teams look out west?

Look at his spilts on basketball reference/NBA.com/ESPN etc an compare it to the team's record. For most accurate #s (like if the team was above .500 when we actually played them and not over .500 right now) you'd have to take a look at the actual box score from said game. Its not really that hard since we really don't play that many games against the West.

Guppyfighter
03-05-2013, 06:31 PM
The Bucks have Larry ****ing Sanders.

AIRMAR72
03-05-2013, 06:36 PM
Holiday. Pretty easy choice for me.

correct

97NYer
03-05-2013, 06:40 PM
Rubio

bigsams50
03-05-2013, 06:40 PM
Personally i would like to see you guys pick of noel i think a frontcourt of noel and biyombo would work nicely


While i like Noel, him and Biyombo together would result in literally no post points lol

xxplayerxx23
03-05-2013, 06:56 PM
Jrue over all of them

therealwd27
03-05-2013, 07:00 PM
I'd take Jrue, close call between him and Rubio but Rubio offense isn't as polished as Jrue...plus Rubio forces so many passes witnessed last night for first time he tries to be too fancy

Sactown
03-05-2013, 07:02 PM
Isaiah Thomas is garbage, shouldn't be on the list.

twin4life
03-05-2013, 07:04 PM
Ill take Ricard Vives :eyebrow:

kkruiser86
03-05-2013, 07:05 PM
This poll is ridiculous. This is like saying if the good points guards aren't available and had to build a new franchise then who would you "settle" for.

Alayla
03-05-2013, 08:45 PM
While i like Noel, him and Biyombo together would result in literally no post points lol

Fair enough lol

72 Wins
03-05-2013, 08:51 PM
I want to say Wall, but I question is work ethic.

Hawkeye15
03-05-2013, 09:00 PM
Jrue right now, But here is Rubio's line since Feb 1, when he seemed to finally trust that knee:

12.9 ppg
9.3 apg
5 rpg
3 spg

This is while playing without Love, Budinger, Lee, Roy, and other games missed by Pekovic, and Kirilenko. He is also being a complete pest on defense. If this boy learns to even score at a slightly below average rate, he is a perennial all NBA defender who can make some all star games.

b@llhog24
03-05-2013, 09:24 PM
Isaiah Thomas is garbage, shouldn't be on the list.

Not to be a turd or anything right, but I remember when you actually thought he was better than Kyrie.

OceanSpray
03-05-2013, 09:30 PM
The only issue with Rubio is he needs to work on his offensive part of his game. I would say he's a Steve Nash type of player but has no shot and his FT % isn't really jaw dropping. I don't think he has much game tbh.

Sactown
03-06-2013, 02:38 AM
Not to be a turd or anything right, but I remember when you actually thought he was better than Kyrie.

I was making a point, I didn't think he was as good as Kyrie, or had nearly the potential, but I didn't like the hype Kyrie was getting for producing numbers similar to the last pick in the draft... If you remember, I was arguing that Kyrie wasn't producing like a top 5 PG in the league that season like everyone was saying he was... Didn't like Isaiah then, and still not a fan, he's a score first PG with a team full of talent.

JAZZNC
03-06-2013, 01:18 PM
John Wall was/has been so over hyped it's absurd. He's not some super star.

Baller1
03-06-2013, 01:29 PM
Rubio for me.

Alayla
03-06-2013, 01:36 PM
John Wall was/has been so over hyped it's absurd. He's not some super star.

He could be however
John Wall was a bit hyped coming into the NBA, because he looked so good compared to how weak everyone else who ended up in that draft looked. But he was still far and away the clear choice at number 1 and still has star potential as a madder of fact hes kind of overlooked now.

todu82
03-06-2013, 01:43 PM
Jrue Holiday

rockbottom2010
03-06-2013, 01:47 PM
holiday is a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad man

AI4MVP
03-06-2013, 02:26 PM
lol Silly gooses. Ricky Rubio will be the only player from this list to make the Hall of Fame, as he will creep up on the all-time record for both assists and steals.

Alayla
03-06-2013, 03:37 PM
lol Silly gooses. Ricky Rubio will be the only player from this list to make the Hall of Fame, as he will creep up on the all-time record for both assists and steals.

hahaha....wait you ARE joking right.. please tell me your joking, no? uh awkward im just gonna step away now and let you believe whatever you want.. have fun with that.

AI4MVP
03-06-2013, 03:54 PM
Well, it all depends on whether you think someone in the top 5 in assists and steals should make the hall of fame. Because both those conditions will be true without a doubt.

Tony_Starks
03-06-2013, 04:04 PM
Brandon Jennings

Collings94
03-06-2013, 04:29 PM
Holiday is better overall then Rubio is, although Rubio has Nash-like potential.

How can people say John Wall when Holiday is obviously just a more complete version of Wall?

The_Jamal
03-06-2013, 05:20 PM
None of these guys are good enough to build a team around, nor will they likely ever be good enough to build a team around. Holliday would be my pick though

PleaseBeNice
03-06-2013, 05:35 PM
Irving

WHODAT8o8
03-06-2013, 07:29 PM
Westbrook!

Alayla
03-07-2013, 03:14 AM
Well, it all depends on whether you think someone in the top 5 in assists and steals should make the hall of fame. Because both those conditions will be true without a doubt.

1. No both are meaningless counting stats and 2 no way he ends up having a much better career than say Andre Miller Not an isult but not enough for the HOF imo .

Alayla
03-07-2013, 03:17 AM
Holiday is better overall then Rubio is, although Rubio has Nash-like potential.

How can people say John Wall when Holiday is obviously just a more complete version of Wall?

EHHH?... No thats not really what Holiday is... hes more like a poor mans Payton with less defensive teeth (Payton being the best PG defender in history where as Holiday is just a top 3-5 defender at PG today)

Showtime Steve
03-07-2013, 03:47 AM
Holiday. He isn't uncle drew, but his game is pretty. Dude is smooth.

AI4MVP
03-07-2013, 06:08 AM
1. No both are meaningless counting stats and 2 no way he ends up having a much better career than say Andre Miller Not an isult but not enough for the HOF imo .

LOL. Have you even seen him play? Have you looked at his games since he had his minutes limits removed ? Andre Miller? He's already light years ahead of Andre Miller. It's obvious you haven't seen him play. Jrue Holiday puts up numbers but anyone who has consistently watched Rubio play can clearly see that Rubio has the heart of a champion and will be a winner. You put Rubio on the Sixers and they win more games than with Holiday. Unfortunately, right now his starting lineup consists of Luke Ridnour, Mikael Geleballe, Derrick Williams, and Greg Steitsma.

Collings94
03-07-2013, 11:30 AM
EHHH?... No thats not really what Holiday is... hes more like a poor mans Payton with less defensive teeth (Payton being the best PG defender in history where as Holiday is just a top 3-5 defender at PG today)

What does that have to do with John Wall? Holiday is a better defender, a better shooter, and a better playmaker then Wall.

ManRam
03-07-2013, 11:35 AM
LOL. Have you even seen him play? Have you looked at his games since he had his minutes limits removed ? Andre Miller? He's already light years ahead of Andre Miller. It's obvious you haven't seen him play. Jrue Holiday puts up numbers but anyone who has consistently watched Rubio play can clearly see that Rubio has the heart of a champion and will be a winner. You put Rubio on the Sixers and they win more games than with Holiday. Unfortunately, right now his starting lineup consists of Luke Ridnour, Mikael Geleballe, Derrick Williams, and Greg Steitsma.

This might be a stupid comment from me, and I acknowledge it might be...


But I don't think Rubio's upside amounts to much more than Rondo's...and I don't think Rondo is gonna have a ton of success in the rest of his career without that championship Celtics roster. Basically, I don't think terribly highly of either.


Rubio is gonna have to learn to score some way, some how. These ultra pass-first PGs aren't that much of a necessity any more. Luckily for him, he can defend tremendously well. But he's gotta learn to score.


Any team building AROUND any of these guys is never going to even come close to sniffing a championship.

SlimKid
03-07-2013, 04:11 PM
Rubio or Holiday.. can't go wrong with either

ZHawk1123
03-07-2013, 04:13 PM
LOL at Jarret Jack not being on this list.

papipapsmanny
03-07-2013, 05:29 PM
LOL at Jarret Jack not being on this list.

Clearly your brain can't grasp what this thread was about.

The one guy I did forget was Kemba Walker, I should have put him in here because I was going with PGs 23 (mainly 22) and under, who have yet to establish themselves yet, or have potential and questions which will be answered over the next 1-3 years (That is why Irving, and Curry are not in this, or Westbrook).

Ebbs
03-07-2013, 05:49 PM
Jrue lol

Hellcrooner
03-07-2013, 06:06 PM
seriously, do people watches the game?

What in rubio, no shot, great DEFENSE and passing reminds anybody bout NASH?



Rubio if anything can grow up into a Jason KIDD, not a nash.

Deception
03-07-2013, 06:08 PM
I picked Wall. I think Rubio is alright, he's a great facilitator but building around him isn't going to work. He's someone you can plug in to a team that already has a great structure and build chemistry with them.

ManRam
03-07-2013, 06:09 PM
Seriously...Rubio and Nash have almost nothing in common besides skin color.

And whoever said "Jarrett Jack"...you do realize he's 29?

VCaintdead17
03-07-2013, 06:09 PM
Should of had Kemba on this poll instead of Jrue. Too easy of a decision.

Tony_Starks
03-07-2013, 06:26 PM
Surprised Bledsoe isn't getting more love. People sleep on him but he could easily be a starter

Beltrans Mole
03-07-2013, 06:38 PM
Jrue Holiday...easily...

Hawkeye15
03-07-2013, 06:46 PM
This might be a stupid comment from me, and I acknowledge it might be...


But I don't think Rubio's upside amounts to much more than Rondo's...and I don't think Rondo is gonna have a ton of success in the rest of his career without that championship Celtics roster. Basically, I don't think terribly highly of either.


Rubio is gonna have to learn to score some way, some how. These ultra pass-first PGs aren't that much of a necessity any more. Luckily for him, he can defend tremendously well. But he's gotta learn to score.


Any team building AROUND any of these guys is never going to even come close to sniffing a championship.

Rubio's mental makeup makes his upside far better than Rondo's dude.

KnicksorBust
03-07-2013, 06:57 PM
My opinion pretty much fits exactly with the poll results. I thought seriously about Wall/Rubio but Jrue is the clear choice. He's already doing it all (scoring/passing/defending) while the other two still have huge holes in their game. Nobody else should be in the conversation.

KnicksorBust
03-07-2013, 06:58 PM
Rubio's mental makeup makes his upside far better than Rondo's dude.

Rubio can also shoot better than Rondo.

Alayla
03-07-2013, 07:48 PM
LOL. Have you even seen him play? Have you looked at his games since he had his minutes limits removed ? Andre Miller? He's already light years ahead of Andre Miller. It's obvious you haven't seen him play. Jrue Holiday puts up numbers but anyone who has consistently watched Rubio play can clearly see that Rubio has the heart of a champion and will be a winner. You put Rubio on the Sixers and they win more games than with Holiday. Unfortunately, right now his starting lineup consists of Luke Ridnour, Mikael Geleballe, Derrick Williams, and Greg Steitsma.

1.I dont think you really understand how good Millers career has actually been because you seem to think thats a slide at Rubio Miller is a borderline HOF candidate.

2. Why are you making this about Jrue Holiday? its not like i said hey Jrue Holiday is in a whole different class from Rubio. In fact i never even bothered to compare them but if you must make me compare your wrong IMO and Holiday is a top 5-7 PG allready and barring a Devin Harris level collapse in skill is going to be a mainstay in the top 8 or so for a very long time

Your comparing a guy that per 36 minutes is averaging 11 and 9 and 4 with .343FG% and .1713p% too a guy Averageing 19 9 and 4 .448% FG and 354. 3p%.
And its not like you can even claim Defense is Rickys saving grace becuse both him and Jrue are elitle Defenders

I liked Rubio D will and Love as much as the next guy and think you guys are way better than your record shows but COME OFF IT lol

Alayla
03-07-2013, 07:51 PM
What does that have to do with John Wall? Holiday is a better defender, a better shooter, and a better playmaker then Wall.

Becuase Wall and Holidays games are nothing alike.

Alayla
03-07-2013, 07:53 PM
seriously, do people watches the game?

What in rubio, no shot, great DEFENSE and passing reminds anybody bout NASH?


Rubio if anything can grow up into a Jason KIDD, not a nash.


Thank you when i think Rubio Kidd is much closer than Nash in terms of a direct comparison.

topdog
03-07-2013, 10:48 PM
People are probably just going to write this off as a homer pick, but Rubio has Holiday beat imo. Yes, Rubio isn't much of a scorer and his percentages from the field are worse but he doubles up Holiday in steals per 36 (Holiday is playing nearly 40 minutes a game) and has the better defensive rating despite his team giving up more points.

Rubio in his second season has an assist percentage of just 0.1% less than Holiday in his 4th season and at a much lower usage rate. People seem to neglect/forget that Rubio is coming off of a knee injury that sidelined him during the offseason and hobbled his way into the box score to start his 2012-13 season. He is learning that he must score in order to keep defenses honest and has been calling his own number and scoring in the teens more often lately.

ManRam
03-07-2013, 11:16 PM
Rubio's mental makeup makes his upside far better than Rondo's dude.

I don't think anything about Rondo's personality holds him back. I think that's mainly just a sensationalized story. It doesn't affect his play, or his team's play, really at all IMO.


And Rubio may be a better shooter (and there is some upside) than Rondo, but right now that like comparing a pile of turds to a pile of diarrhea

papipapsmanny
03-07-2013, 11:17 PM
Should of had Kemba on this poll instead of Jrue. Too easy of a decision.

I should of had Kemba I am mad at myself for forgetting him.

As for Jrue I acknowledge that he is a very good player but my question was going forward, career projections (that may or may not change some people's picks).

I picked Wall (I am a Wiz fan I'll admit that) he is still young enough where his potential just makes me go with him. He can dribble, pass, and defend pretty well. If he can cut the TO's and shoot his jumper like he has the last 2 games then he will be really good. Right now he is essentially a better passing D-Rose with no 3 point range and a poor jumper. If he can get a meh 3 point range and above average jumper he would be sick.

Put it this way if he can shoot 44 % with 28-32% 3 point range on a playoff team I honestly think he would be a 18-22 guy with 10 assists and 4-5 rebounds per game. The big question is his jumper.

Rubio is a great passer and defender but he shoots worse than wall (actually a lot worse) and is basically the same age so I don't really understand people picking him over Wall.

my 2 cents

Alayla
03-08-2013, 04:17 AM
People are probably just going to write this off as a homer pick, but Rubio has Holiday beat imo. Yes, Rubio isn't much of a scorer and his percentages from the field are worse but he doubles up Holiday in steals per 36 (Holiday is playing nearly 40 minutes a game) and has the better defensive rating despite his team giving up more points.

Rubio in his second season has an assist percentage of just 0.1% less than Holiday in his 4th season and at a much lower usage rate. People seem to neglect/forget that Rubio is coming off of a knee injury that sidelined him during the offseason and hobbled his way into the box score to start his 2012-13 season. He is learning that he must score in order to keep defenses honest and has been calling his own number and scoring in the teens more often lately.

The sixers are one of the slowest paced teams in the NBA we are a bad defensive team this year dont let the numbers fool you :P
also steals numbers mean nothing
Look im not saying Rubio is bad but if you think hes better your going to need a much stronger arugement than that to be justified as anything more than a homer no offense.

benzni
03-08-2013, 10:28 AM
holiday. far behind is rubio and the rest

ZHawk1123
03-08-2013, 10:44 AM
Clearly your brain can't grasp what this thread was about.

The one guy I did forget was Kemba Walker, I should have put him in here because I was going with PGs 23 (mainly 22) and under, who have yet to establish themselves yet, or have potential and questions which will be answered over the next 1-3 years (That is why Irving, and Curry are not in this, or Westbrook).

hahaha... easy... I was making fun of people that always say crap like that in these threads... I'm well aware of Jarret Jack's shortcomings...

papipapsmanny
03-08-2013, 03:33 PM
hahaha... easy... I was making fun of people that always say crap like that in these threads... I'm well aware of Jarret Jack's shortcomings...

alright yeah its hard to pick up on the sarcasm when reading

NJrockPD
03-08-2013, 03:45 PM
John Wall (Too much upside)
Jrue Holliday (most polished at this point)
Jennings (seems more like a Hybrid guard more than a point)
Rubio (first on my list if Healthy)
Bledsoe
Knight
Thomas

Sactown
03-08-2013, 04:08 PM
DeMarcus Cousins, not even close

ztilzer31
03-08-2013, 04:18 PM
I love Ricky Rubio. That guy makes some amazing passes. It's too bad the T-Wolves are such a mess.

hugepatsfan
03-08-2013, 04:29 PM
None of those are a guy you can build your team around. Holiday>Wall>Rubio for me. Maybe Rubio ahead of Wall. Bledsoe is the wildcard. I love his play style as a role player. He would be a better fit at PG on a team with Lebron or some other ball dominant wing than Rubio or Wall, for example.

jericho
03-08-2013, 04:34 PM
if you want to win jrue holiday if you want to sell tickets rubio. i want to sell tickets just imagine rubio with a bunch of high flyers on the same team

beasted86
03-08-2013, 07:33 PM
People are going with the choice that seems obvious based on stats, but Philly sucks with Holiday as the first option and a cast good enough to be closer to a .500 record.

Give me John Wall with a developed jump shot, fully healthy and a year under his belt with Beal and some other decent pieces. Rubio is way overrated.

Hawkeye15
03-08-2013, 08:14 PM
1.I dont think you really understand how good Millers career has actually been because you seem to think thats a slide at Rubio Miller is a borderline HOF candidate.

2. Why are you making this about Jrue Holiday? its not like i said hey Jrue Holiday is in a whole different class from Rubio. In fact i never even bothered to compare them but if you must make me compare your wrong IMO and Holiday is a top 5-7 PG allready and barring a Devin Harris level collapse in skill is going to be a mainstay in the top 8 or so for a very long time

Your comparing a guy that per 36 minutes is averaging 11 and 9 and 4 with .343FG% and .1713p% too a guy Averageing 19 9 and 4 .448% FG and 354. 3p%.
And its not like you can even claim Defense is Rickys saving grace becuse both him and Jrue are elitle Defenders

I liked Rubio D will and Love as much as the next guy and think you guys are way better than your record shows but COME OFF IT lol

Don't pay attention to him, he only shows up in the Wolves board when Rubio is playing, he isn't a Wolves fan per say. He does overrate Ricky. I think Rubio has top 5-6 PG potential if he can continue to get better at finishing better at the rim (57% since Feb 1, a 10% improvement over last year), and you can tell his shot is almost there, it goes in and out many times. This will be his first offseason to start working on those skills, and he is a very disruptive player defensively, meaning he gets the other teams offense out of its flow and they are forced to make quicker decisions, while knocking balls loose and getting a high amount of steals without gambling and losing his man. He controls pace, spacing, and the entire offense like a veteran. Now just imagine if he had Love, Budinger, Kirilenko, and Pekovic to distribute the ball to versus Cunningham, Ridnour, Stiemsma, and Williams...

IKnowHoops
03-09-2013, 12:18 AM
I would take John Wall, but I really like Rubio too. I would take both if I could, but I think John wall could be in the mvp running in the years to come. I see rubio making everyone better and playing at an allstar level but not mvp.

topdog
03-09-2013, 12:41 AM
The sixers are one of the slowest paced teams in the NBA we are a bad defensive team this year dont let the numbers fool you :P

I don't get why you would say the Sixers slow pace should make us disregard defensive ratings (which Philly is 12th in league for as a team and Minnesota is 13th).


also steals numbers mean nothing

Please explain.


Look im not saying Rubio is bad but if you think hes better your going to need a much stronger arugement than that to be justified as anything more than a homer no offense.

His second year in the league, Ricky Rubio is comparable if not better than Holiday in his second year:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=rubiori01&y1=2013&p2=holidjr01&y2=2011

Rubio also has won their 2 head-to-heads:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=rubiori01&p2=holidjr01

b@llhog24
03-09-2013, 01:08 AM
Using Drtg to rank individual players is already bad, them being point guards just makes it worse.