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Nick O
03-04-2013, 05:39 PM
Is there even a point? I know most players are picked in the second round for a reason. and maybe this is just a Raptor thing. But why even use the pick if you are never going to give these players a chance? I cant remember the last second round pick we had get any chance. I know for some teams second round picks end up being solid players.but there is alot of wasted talent out there and you would think some bad teams would give them a shot for sure. But why do so many franchises refuse to give so many of these players an opportunity?

KnicksorBust
03-04-2013, 05:42 PM
Small talent pool. Tough to break through when the NBA is so far above every other league.

rockbottom2010
03-04-2013, 05:48 PM
hard work pays off

rashard lewis
michael redd
gilbert arenas
manu ginobili
mo williams
trevor ariza
nikola pekevic
deandre jordan
marc gasol

Nick O
03-04-2013, 05:52 PM
hard work pays off

rashard lewis
michael redd
gilbert arenas
manu ginobili
mo williams
trevor ariza
nikola pekevic
deandre jordan
marc gasol

right but those guys got a chance... think of all the talent who never got a fair shot to show what they could do

rockbottom2010
03-04-2013, 05:56 PM
right but those guys got a chance... think of all the talent who never got a fair shot to show what they could do

im sure they had a chance...cuz some of the 1st rounders are bust i.e. kwame brown, eddy curry

LAKobeBryant
03-04-2013, 05:56 PM
teams gotta fill their roster its better to have a 19 year old than a 30 year old as your 15th man. (team perspective)

WHODAT8o8
03-04-2013, 05:57 PM
If they were that good, then they would have gotten a chance.

b1e9a8r5s
03-04-2013, 06:10 PM
2nd round picks are valuable because they aren't gaurenteed. Hitting on them can be very benificial.

Bishnoff
03-04-2013, 06:11 PM
If they were that good, then they would have gotten a chance.

Hardly. Hundreds of player's careers have been destroyed because of the team that drafted them.

b1e9a8r5s
03-04-2013, 06:14 PM
Issaih Thomas (Sac)
Omer Asik
Kyle Singler
Chandler Parsons
Landry Fields
Lance Stephson
Dejaun Blair

some other 2nd round picks who have been solid NBA players

Nick O
03-04-2013, 06:18 PM
Issaih Thomas (Sac)
Omer Asik
Kyle Singler
Chandler Parsons
Landry Fields
Lance Stephson
Dejaun Blair

some other 2nd round picks who have been solid NBA players

exactly my point. alot of second round picks who get a chance end up playing well.. so many get stuck on the bench and play 3 minutes every 5 games.. that doesnt help

b1e9a8r5s
03-04-2013, 06:19 PM
Man the 2008 2nd round was pretty good.
Asik
Pekovic
Deandre Jordan
Mbah a Moute
Dragic
Chalmers

b1e9a8r5s
03-04-2013, 06:22 PM
exactly my point. alot of second round picks who get a chance end up playing well.. so many get stuck on the bench and play 3 minutes every 5 games.. that doesnt help

Do the 2nd round picks that get to play extended minutes end up being good? Or do the good 2nd round players earn their time? It's selection bias. That's not to say that their aren't guys who slip through the cracks. You view "getting a chance" as getting minutes in a game, but they are getting a chance to show thier skills in practice and or the D league. The ones that to "pan out" make it because they are better than the ones who don't (for the most part).

PurpleJesus
03-04-2013, 06:39 PM
many players who get drafted in the second round play in Europe, and just decide that they would rather stay home...and if the players drafted in the 2nd round were players in college, a lot of them like the idea of playing in Europe and getting playing time earlier, rather than sitting on the bench of an NBA team.

king4day
03-04-2013, 06:42 PM
If the player is good enough, he'll find a way. Most 2nd rounders don't pan out but usually a few per season will make a name for themselves.

2-ONE-5
03-04-2013, 06:46 PM
right but those guys got a chance... think of all the talent who never got a fair shot to show what they could do

they do get a chance. some get less of a chance due to the team they go to a deep team but they dont have guaranteed contracts so they are able to try to make another team

HouRealCoach
03-04-2013, 06:52 PM
exactly my point. alot of second round picks who get a chance end up playing well.. so many get stuck on the bench and play 3 minutes every 5 games.. that doesnt help

If others don't get a chance then maybe it's because there are guys better or they just didn't cut it in Training Camp

JasonJohnHorn
03-04-2013, 07:03 PM
teams gotta fill their roster its better to have a 19 year old than a 30 year old as your 15th man. (team perspective)

This is not always the case. If you have a team that is contending, it is likely better to have a vet that comes in and knows what he's doing to cover for an injured guy or a guy in foul trouble, rather than a guy who might make a rookie mistake or commit a dumb foul.


If you are in cellar, then yeah... you might as well give a shot to a young guy, but the younger guy is not always the best option.



Also... it depends on who drafts you.... that could make a huge impact. You get drafted by the Spurs, you get a great coach who knows how to develop players and teammates who only care about winning, then they want to help you improve, but you get put on a young team where everybody is fighting for minutes, you might not get a chance to develop as much is the guy ahead of you wins favour with the coach. There are guys who could have contributed more if they had been drafted into a different situation.


I always look at the Spurs as the model. You look at guys like Stephen Jackson and Bruce Bowen, Roger Mason, guys who never got a chance to play with other teams, they get in Pop's system and all of a sudden they look like stars. Would Manu and Parker have been able to develop into the players they are on a different roster? Their style of game doesn't translate well into every system. They might have very easily found limited minutes in the NBA and headed to Europe after their rookie contacts were up. This is what almost happened to Drazen Petrovic.. he got drafted by a deep team, and he didn't get minutes. He almost left to go back to Europe, but then was traded and figured he'd try things out with his new team. Turns out he was perhaps the best shooter the league had ever seen (even if he was a cardboard cutout on defence).


Take a look at Darko. Everybody know that Larry Brown hates playing rookies.... he killed Darko's confidence. Likewise Jordan and Collins tore apart Kawme Brown... had either of those guys been drafted by the Spurs, or by the Lakers when Phil Jackson was around (though more so Pop), either of those players may have ended up having very different careers.

papipapsmanny
03-04-2013, 08:02 PM
Small talent pool. Tough to break through when the NBA is so far above every other league.

What does that even mean? Its only because there is a much limited amount of space on each roster compared to every other league.

c.c.
03-04-2013, 08:28 PM
The league is full of talent but 1st rounders are being treated the same nowadays. And like others said it all depends on what team you end up on. Look at Jeremy Lamb, if he was still on the Rockets he would of playing at least 20 minutes a game. But since he got traded to Thunder, I think he's currently in the D-league after playing like 2 to 3 minutes a game. Wasting his rookie season!

Chronz
03-04-2013, 08:33 PM
Is there even a point? I know most players are picked in the second round for a reason. and maybe this is just a Raptor thing. But why even use the pick if you are never going to give these players a chance? I cant remember the last second round pick we had get any chance. I know for some teams second round picks end up being solid players.but there is alot of wasted talent out there and you would think some bad teams would give them a shot for sure. But why do so many franchises refuse to give so many of these players an opportunity?
Yes there is a point, check out Moreys draft record with them. The beginning of the 2nd round has some if the best value for a pick.

IndyRealist
03-04-2013, 08:50 PM
There's a discrimination factor against 2nd round picks which weighs heavily against them in regards to playing time. First round picks get paid more, have guaranteed contracts, and most importantly for this discussion, a decision maker on the team thought they were good. If that first round pick does not get PT, that's in effect saying that the decision maker was wrong. That decision maker is also likely the guy who signs the checks, or at least is significantly up the food chain from the coach. So coach has to play his "prized" first round pick, even if the guy's a bust (Michael Beasley, anyone?)

Celticsfan2007
03-04-2013, 09:00 PM
2nd round picks = Roulette.

You have about a 1:36 chance to hit. :D

Nothing wrong with them.

La11
03-04-2013, 09:11 PM
Just look at Houston and San Antonio's draft picks. They value it more than the Raptors. The Raptors give out 2nd's like they are Candy..

Nick O
03-04-2013, 09:30 PM
Just look at Houston and San Antonio's draft picks. They value it more than the Raptors. The Raptors give out 2nd's like they are Candy..

i know.. and its annoying as hell

garyraymond23
03-04-2013, 10:20 PM
Is there even a point to 2nd rd picks? :facepalm:

DumDum
03-05-2013, 04:40 AM
hard work pays off


rashard lewis
michael redd
gilbert arenas
manu ginobili
mo williams
trevor ariza
nikola pekevic
deandre jordan
marc gasol

Their always a couple gems at the bottom of box you have to look

Bob_at_york
03-05-2013, 10:34 AM
Is there even a point? I know most players are picked in the second round for a reason. and maybe this is just a Raptor thing. But why even use the pick if you are never going to give these players a chance? I cant remember the last second round pick we had get any chance. I know for some teams second round picks end up being solid players.but there is alot of wasted talent out there and you would think some bad teams would give them a shot for sure. But why do so many franchises refuse to give so many of these players an opportunity?

Have you forgotten about Roko already? It was only 4 years ago and the Raptors have only drafted maybe 3 or 4 more 2nd rounders since then. I think 2nd rounders get opportunities in practice and in the d-league. If they earn time, they play in the nba.

MrfadeawayJB
03-05-2013, 11:32 AM
Most second rounders dont get a real chance to prove themselves. Not to mention, most of them can leave and play in europe for more money

Pierzynski4Prez
03-05-2013, 11:55 AM
If they were that good, then they would have gotten a chance.

This.

There's this thing called practice, and if they were good enough during it, they would get more chances.

NYCkid12
03-05-2013, 12:12 PM
This.

There's this thing called practice, and if they were good enough during it, they would get more chances.

THANK YOU!!

Was just going to say the same thing...it's not like games are the only place to prove yourself, a lot of times it's practice where you earn your playing time

We're talking about the best talent evaluators working for these NBA teams..you think if a guy was good enough to be a productive player every night in the NBA , that wouldn't show in practice??

And I'm curious, is there a specific player in mind who would of "made it" or become a productive player if "given a chance"?

C_Mund
03-05-2013, 12:21 PM
"What's a draft pick?"
-Raptors fans

JLynn943
03-05-2013, 12:29 PM
Isaiah has worked out quite well for the Kings :)

At the very least, I think the second round is a great opportunity to take a shot at international players. The Spurs have proven that doing your work on international players pays off.

Gators123
03-05-2013, 12:40 PM
This.

There's this thing called practice, and if they were good enough during it, they would get more chances.

Thats not completely true. For instance-



Prince on Drummondís progress: "Iím totally surprised. Some guys arenít practice players. Heís totally different in practice than in games."


TP on Drummond: "We get in the game&the floor is wide open, his athleticism takes over the game. In camp he was struggling finding openings.


Prince said in practice the lanes are so clogged itís hard for Drummond to get to the open spots. In the games, it all changes

http://www.pistonpowered.com/2013/01/andre-drummond-not-a-good-practice-player-says-tayshaun-prince/

2-ONE-5
03-05-2013, 04:15 PM
Lavoy Allen was huge for my Sixers last year in the plaoyoffs in guarding KG

NoahH
03-05-2013, 09:03 PM
2nd players can be solid contributors, they just are not stars all the time. You can take a gamble with low-risk and score-high.

All relevant 2nd round picks since 2002...

Carlos Boozer
Matt Barnes
Luis Scola
Steve Blake
Keith Bogans
ZaZa Pachulia
Mo Williams
James Jones
Anderson Varejao
Chris Duhon
Trevor Ariza
Brandon Bass
Illyasova
CJ Miles
Ronny Turiaf
Monta Ellis
Lou Williams
Andray Blatche
Amir Johnson
Steve Novak
Daniel Gibson
Paul Millsap
Carl Landry
Glen Davis
Josh McRoberts
Marc Gasol
Aaron Gray
Ramon Sessions
Nikola Pekovic
Mario Chalmers
DeAndre Jordan
Omer Asik
Mbah a Moute
Sonny Weams
Goran Dragic
Sam Young
Dejuan Blair
Jodie Meeks
Marcus Thornton
Chase Budinger
Danny Green
AJ Price
Landry Fields
Lance Stephenson
David E'Banks
Kyle Singler
Chandler Parsons
Lavoy Allen
Isaiah Thomas

As you can see the list is long. This list includes all the second round picks still in the NBA contributing in a role to their team. Yes, some aren't playing huge minutes but theyre all assets to their team in one way or another than the teams need. And as stated, NBA teams sometimes find a diamond in the rough too.. Boozer, Monta Ellis etc.

I think it comes down to teams giving players a shot combined with skill / impressing the coaches. Take Jeremy Lin. He was buried on the Warriors bench despite having starter skill and then all of a sudden he explodes in NY when given the chance