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View Full Version : If MJ remained retired after 1993 Season, would he still be the GOAT?



COLH
02-25-2013, 08:29 PM
Im just curious, me and my friends are debating if Jordan never came back to basketball after his first retirement would he still be considered the Greatest of All Time?


Accomplishments by 1993:


3x NBA Championships
3x Finals MVP
3x Regular Season MVPS
1x DPOY
First Team: 1987-93
Second Team: 1985
First Defensive Team: 1988-93
NBA Rookie of the Year: 1985
Scoring champion: 1987-93
3x steals leader: 1988, 1990, 1993
2x Olympic gold medals: 1984, 1992

Jeffy25
02-25-2013, 08:31 PM
No.

We would just be talking about what could have been.

siix
02-25-2013, 08:31 PM
hell no

LASportsFan1996
02-25-2013, 08:32 PM
No Way Jose

seikou8
02-25-2013, 08:37 PM
no

COLH
02-25-2013, 08:39 PM
Lol. Thats what I kept telling them. Magic Johnson, Bill Russell, Bird, Kareem etc. would be greater than MJ. Maybe even Duncan and Kobe are debatable.

bootleg42
02-25-2013, 08:42 PM
By 1993 he as AN all-time great.

After 1998, he was the GREATEST OF ALL TIME!!!!!!!

ackar
02-25-2013, 08:46 PM
Yeppers he would be. funny thing is Magic said he was just after the first three peat!

Rndy
02-25-2013, 08:48 PM
I think he would be not with accomplishments or Rings but the fact he was so amazing he stopped playing because he was bored. That is a legend. It's almost like how Ted Williams is called one of the best ever because he went to war in his prime. I won't act like war is the same as sitting on your *** but they both left in their primes and would receive the benefit of the doubt of how great they are.

bootleg42
02-25-2013, 08:48 PM
Thank about it.

With just his last name, MJ sells overpriced shoes, and he gets to run a team he really has no business running.

Until LeBron and Kobe can put their names on shoes and overprice it and STILL sell them out, then MJ is the GOAT.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-25-2013, 08:50 PM
No!

COLH
02-25-2013, 08:50 PM
really? I didnt know Magic said that!

But sometimes Magic's opinion is ehhh haha

COLH
02-25-2013, 08:54 PM
Thank about it.

With just his last name, MJ sells overpriced shoes, and he gets to run a team he really has no business running.

Until LeBron and Kobe can put their names on shoes and overprice it and STILL sell them out, then MJ is the GOAT.

Good point man. I know MJ is marketbale as heck, him and Magic changed the game in terms of marketbaility no doubt. But I was asking more about GOAT in terms of NBA accomplishments(comparing with former and current players).

Ray_R
02-25-2013, 08:55 PM
Thank about it.

With just his last name, MJ sells overpriced shoes, and he gets to run a team he really has no business running.

Until LeBron and Kobe can put their names on shoes and overprice it and STILL sell them out, then MJ is the GOAT.They do

netsgiantsyanks
02-25-2013, 09:04 PM
They do

people aren't killing each other over kobes as much as jordans.

DumDum
02-25-2013, 09:10 PM
we know kobe would still try to be like him

DumDum
02-25-2013, 09:11 PM
people aren't killing each other over kobes as much as jordans.

nobody killing over kobe's look at my sig

COLH
02-25-2013, 09:30 PM
nobody killing over kobe's look at my sig

lol. Dont know why my brother bought those.

Bruno
02-25-2013, 09:40 PM
no, he wouldn't be top three either.

i'd entertain an argument for top five though.

Bullsfan22
02-25-2013, 09:40 PM
No way..

Dade County
02-26-2013, 12:30 AM
People would just say that he was the greatest they ever say... but they wouldn't give him the greatest ever title.

Becks2307
02-26-2013, 12:32 AM
Barry Sanders Status

Alayla
02-26-2013, 03:12 PM
yes he still would be but he wouldn't be thought of in nearly the same light he would be seen as the greatest but he wouldn't have the untouchable lure he has today.

BullySixChicago
02-26-2013, 03:23 PM
Since we are talking what ifs, what if he never retired and won 8 straight would we even be discussing this?

Matrix3132
02-26-2013, 03:26 PM
Barry Sanders Status

I agree, I think longevity is overrated and inflates career stats far beyond a player's actual skill/abilities, while leaving the game early is a baller move.

Lo Porto
02-26-2013, 03:30 PM
MJ isn't the GOAT right now. He's just one of the top 3 players of all time and definitely the best player of his era.

Swashcuff
02-26-2013, 03:51 PM
Don't see why not... The best seasons of his career were already behind him, many thought he had already surpassed Magic by that time (the player who was being seen as the G.O.A.T. around then) and our last memories of MJ would be him at the pinnacle of his career doing what Magic himself couldn't do (three peat). Honestly there was no player with a greater peak/prime run than MJ at that point in his career and from the POV of purely being the best/most impactful player ever he would certainly be seen as #1. Maybe not by the large margin that he is now but certainly in the running. I'd still have him at #1 :shrug:

Bravo95
02-26-2013, 04:01 PM
Saw enough of his prime to still rank him #1.

xxplayerxx23
02-26-2013, 04:03 PM
Nope. Btw to the sneakers talk lebrons sneakers are getting pretty popular.

Hellcrooner
02-26-2013, 05:10 PM
no and yes.

He wouldnt be, he would be one of the candidates ( what he is in reality).

But yes he would be perceived as the goat, because all the brainwashing marketing work was already done.

DITKA4GOV
02-26-2013, 06:22 PM
MJ isn't the GOAT right now. He's just one of the top 3 players of all time and definitely the best player of his era.

SMH, keep fighting the good fight people. Show me one person in league history where there stats/accomplishments/post-season heroics even compare to MJ. And... Good Luck.

I think MJ would be considered top 3-5 prior to his first retirement. His accolades at that point were impressive and comparable already to some of the games greats. What he did when he came back just added so much to his legacy. I wish he would have just left the game after that shot over Russell. Then again, he did average 20 ppg / 6rpg / 4 apg @ 40 years old for the Wiz.

Regarding shoes. LeBronís shoes may becoming popular, (I find them bulky and ugly)but are not trend setting like the Air Jordans. Half the problem may be all the colorways and versions of LBJís they put out which waters down the product. I can tell you what the first couple of Pennyís looked like, or the Iversons. They just stood out in style.

hidalgo
02-26-2013, 06:29 PM
people aren't killing each other over kobes as much as jordans.i don't think people even buy Kobes

most kids that get Kobes probably begged for Jordan's & their mom came home with lame Kobes instead, causing a giant fit

hidalgo
02-26-2013, 06:31 PM
Barry Sanders Statusi agree. he'd still be the best, like Barry Sanders. MJ was already thought of as the best ever by alot of people by his first title, maybe before then

Heatcheck
02-26-2013, 08:30 PM
I think the gap would have been even bigger. now, the last memory you have of Jordan is as the biggest star in the world, a 3peat with basically just him and scottie (and Grant), and the most ridiculous career averages imaginable.

I can see it now "Jordan quit early", "Can you imagine if Jordan would have kept playing?"

LeperMessiah
02-27-2013, 01:25 AM
I think a more relevant question is: Would he still be a hall of famer?

AIRMAR72
02-27-2013, 01:44 AM
No

MaloDaw9
02-27-2013, 01:57 AM
i don't think people even buy Kobes

most kids that get Kobes probably begged for Jordan's & their mom came home with lame Kobes instead, causing a giant fit

Something tells me your not a expert in fashion or trends. In fact, I bet you are one of the last SOB's on the planet one would even ask about such matters.

AIRMAR72
02-27-2013, 02:01 AM
Something tells me your not a expert in fashion or trends. In fact, I bet you are one of the last SOB's on the planet one would even ask about such matters.ok kobe thats enuff GO wash your and bush your teeth

MaloDaw9
02-27-2013, 02:10 AM
ok kobe thats enuff GO wash your and bush your teeth

Ahh you again :facepalm:

Still butchering the English language i see.

Swashcuff
02-27-2013, 11:32 AM
I think a more relevant question is: Would he still be a hall of famer?

Idiotic question. He'd be the in the HoF after his first run.

todu82
02-27-2013, 12:26 PM
No, he'd possibly be in the top 10 but had he stayed retired after 1993 he would not be #1.

JordansBulls
02-27-2013, 12:58 PM
No, he'd possibly be in the top 10 but had he stayed retired after 1993 he would not be #1.

Top 10???

He had 3 titles, 3 peat, 3 league mvp's, 3 finals mvp's and here were his playoff career numbers thru that point in time.

Here are MJ's playoff averages upon retirement in 1993 (age 30), over the course of 111 playoff games:

34.8 pts/6.7 reb/6.7 ast/2.4 stl/1.1 blk/51.3% FG/29.7 PER

I mean, that's just insane. Basically 35/7/7/2+/1+/30 PER. Nutso.

sp1derm00
02-27-2013, 04:55 PM
Yes, he would be to me at least.

His playoff performances were ****ing amazing and we would all be left wondering how many he would have won in a row had he stayed. We wouldn't be thinking, oh he might be top 10. I mean, the man was ****ing unstoppable.

The man left the NBA averaging:

41ppg on 51%, 8.5rpg, 6.3apg, 1.7spg, .67bpg, 2.6TO/gm

on what would be his last Finals, had he just left. That is ****ing incredible.