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View Full Version : Is LeBron an elite shooter now?



Chronz
02-25-2013, 02:23 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/PerDiem-130225/nba-lebron-james-shooting-star


According to Synergy, 28 players have taken at least 400 jump shots this season. So in this sample, we're looking at the most prolific jump shooters on planet Earth -- Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Joe Johnson, Kobe Bryant and James Harden, etc.

Guess who ranks No. 1 in field goal percentage?

That's right, it's James. He's made 44.7 percent of all his jumpers, which equates to an effective field goal percentage of 52.8 percent. Going by effective field goal percentage, James trails only Ryan Anderson and J.J. Redick in this group.

But when it comes to straight conversion rate, no one's better. And get this: In 2004-05 -- the first recorded season in the Synergy database -- James ranked second-to-last in jump-shot field goal percentage among 57 players with at least 400 jumpers. He made only 34.8 percent of his tries back then; now it's up to a league-best 44.7 percent.

LEBRON'S JUMP-SHOOTING STATS


Season GP MPG FG FGA FG% eFG%
2012-13 54 38.3 3.4 7.6 44.7% 52.8%
2011-12 62 37.5 3.0 7.8 39.3% 44.3%
2010-11 79 38.8 3.6 9.0 39.8% 45.4%
2009-10 76 39.0 3.9 10.3 38.0% 45.6%
2008-09 81 37.7 3.8 10.4 36.2% 43.2%
2007-08 75 40.4 3.7 10.8 34.2% 40.8%
2006-07 78 40.9 3.3 10.1 32.4% 37.4%
2005-06 79 42.5 4.3 11.8 36.9% 43.0%
2004-05 80 42.3 3.5 10.2 34.8% 40.4%
via Synergy


Coach Erik Spoelstra contends that James has trimmed the fat in his shot selection. And this checks out; James has taken one fewer shot from outside 10 feet per game than he did last season and about two fewer shots than his typical diet in Cleveland. And anecdotally, there's been fewer "dribble it up and chuck it from 25 feet" shots from James these days.

But this might just be a natural progression. When James took the world by storm out of high school, we wondered what he might look like in his prime. Well, here it is, folks. James is registering 27.0 points, 8.1 rebounds and 7.1 assists per game on 56.7 percent shooting -- a stat line that has never been achieved in NBA history.

And he now wields one of the best jump shots in the game. We've never seen anything like this. So sit back and appreciate what he's doing because now more than ever, James is a shooting star.

Hawkeye15
02-25-2013, 02:30 PM
just read the same article. Yes, he is an elite shooter this year, which is very scary for the league. Anyone who still thinks his FG% comes from dunks and layups is flat out not informed correctly.

Big Zo
02-25-2013, 02:35 PM
The guy can place the ball on top of his ***, fart on it, and it will go inside the basket. Yes, he's an elite shooter now.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-25-2013, 02:38 PM
I wouldn't call him elite sure he is super efficient because most of his shots come form 5-10 feet out, but he is an above average shooter now, elite not yet, he's very streaky though

sp1derm00
02-25-2013, 02:41 PM
It's scary how good Lebron has become. He's so consistently good, it's amazing.

HouRealCoach
02-25-2013, 02:42 PM
The guy can place the ball on top of his ***, fart on it, and it will go inside the basket. Yes, he's an elite shooter now.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I suppose he is now... His efficiency has been equivalent to some of the best bigs in the game and he's been taking a few contested leaning long jumpers

It's insane

Hawkeye15
02-25-2013, 02:44 PM
I wouldn't call him elite sure he is super efficient because most of his shots come form 5-10 feet out, but he is an above average shooter now, elite not yet, he's very streaky though

did you read the article? Obviously not, or you wouldn't state that most of his shots come from 5-10 feet out. Keep trying to discredit him though..

HouRealCoach
02-25-2013, 02:47 PM
Then again, he does have to do it a little longer to be justified as an elite shooter

Hawkeye15
02-25-2013, 02:49 PM
Then again, he does have to do it a little longer to be justified as an elite shooter

yeah, he was on the incline, but made a big jump this season. I am interested to see if it holds up. If it does, he is elite at it, but for now, he is an elite jump shooter, this season.

Sactown
02-25-2013, 02:53 PM
The greatest thing about Lebron James is he understands the game, especially this season. He knows what shots he can make and he doesn't force the issue, he just makes the best basketball play. He's a very good jump shooter, but him knowing what's a good shot from a bad shot makes him elite.

So do I think Lebron is an elite shooter? No, but Lebron is a GREAT shooter, with elite shot selection.

valade16
02-25-2013, 02:57 PM
Never seen this stat line before? MJ averaged 32.5 ppg, 8 rpg, 8 apg on 53.8% shooting. LeBron's shooting % is 2.9% better. I don't think that really equates to "never been seen before".

That being said, he's about as complete a player as is possible right now. Best player in the league unarguably. Just from the last few games I've seen of him his shooting was deadly.

IKnowHoops
02-25-2013, 03:03 PM
yeah, he was on the incline, but made a big jump this season. I am interested to see if it holds up. If it does, he is elite at it, but for now, he is an elite jump shooter, this season.

Exactly

IKnowHoops
02-25-2013, 03:06 PM
The greatest thing about Lebron James is he understands the game, especially this season. He knows what shots he can make and he doesn't force the issue, he just makes the best basketball play. He's a very good jump shooter, but him knowing what's a good shot from a bad shot makes him elite.

So do I think Lebron is an elite shooter? No, but Lebron is a GREAT shooter, with elite shot selection.

I agree, but his shot selection is past elite.

Twins Fanatic
02-25-2013, 03:32 PM
The greatest thing about Lebron James is he understands the game, especially this season. He knows what shots he can make and he doesn't force the issue, he just makes the best basketball play. He's a very good jump shooter, but him knowing what's a good shot from a bad shot makes him elite.

So do I think Lebron is an elite shooter? No, but Lebron is a GREAT shooter, with elite shot selection.

Which would make players like Kobe and Melo elite shooters with crappy shot selections. Right?

bucketss
02-25-2013, 03:35 PM
I wouldn't call him elite sure he is super efficient because most of his shots come form 5-10 feet out, but he is an above average shooter now, elite not yet, he's very streaky though

atleast say defenses don't put as much pressure on him on the perimeter compared to other elite shooters.

LongIslandIcedZ
02-25-2013, 03:38 PM
It helps a lot that the dude is always in a nice rhythm since he can get to the hoop at will. After hitting a few layups, it helps his confidence, and that in turn that probably helps his shot. Having said all that, it has clearly improved and all his hard work is paying off.

I would be interested in seeing what his shooting numbers would be like if he didnt take it to the hole as much as he does. Not that it changes anything, because it's his game, I would like to see how he would stack up against Kobe and Melo. Unfortunately such a stat probably doesnt exist.

rockbottom2010
02-25-2013, 05:30 PM
this is the reason why lebron is gonna break the scoring record

Alayla
02-25-2013, 06:19 PM
hes close but i still say the strong team around him contributes to that a great deal never the less this guy is a beast his game is nearly flawless at this point.

robdesign13
02-25-2013, 06:29 PM
He's really started to shoot the ball much better. The take on Lebron was to make him shoot from the outside and limit his touches in transition. His transformation into becoming one of the best all around players of all time seems to be complete. I begrudgingly concede.

Ebbs
02-25-2013, 06:32 PM
Another reason why he should win MVP despite how badly the media wants to give it to KD.

lakers4sho
02-25-2013, 06:34 PM
His shots are mostly dunks and layups.

Klivlend
02-25-2013, 06:37 PM
His shots are mostly dunks and layups.

Not sure if serious or trolling...

If serious, don't post if you're not gonna read.

LAKobeBryant
02-25-2013, 06:40 PM
Yes, hes a elite shooter but i don't know about clutch situations for LeBron. They haven't had many close games this season and even if so Ray is the one shooting.

justinnum1
02-25-2013, 06:41 PM
His shots are mostly dunks and layups.

:facepalm:

HYFR
02-25-2013, 06:46 PM
His shot selection is amazing. He simply will not bail out the defense by talking a dumb three anymore. He is an elite shooter this season no question.

Freakazoid
02-25-2013, 06:46 PM
I don't think he's suddenly a better shooter in terms of technique and what not but I do think he has done a better job in the past few seasons to find better shots in order to make up for his awkward jumper.

Sactown
02-25-2013, 06:47 PM
Which would make players like Kobe and Melo elite shooters with crappy shot selections. Right?

I've seen Kobe take some tough fall away jumpers that he didn't have to take, but to say that Kobe and Melo have a better shot selection than Lebron is silly, or they'd be much more efficient..

A good part of why Lebron is capable to taking great shots is the fact that he's bigger and faster than everyone else and can get to his spots easy.

Bravo95
02-25-2013, 07:20 PM
This LeBron guy is pretty good.

Iggz53
02-25-2013, 07:33 PM
I don't think I'd call him an elite shooter yet. Unlike the other guys in that category (Ray Allen, Kyle Korver, etc) defenses always play LeBron for the drive. That little extra space he gets from being such an extreme threat to penetrate gives him a huge advantage in jump-shooting, when compared to those other guys, who are almost always defended for the jumpshot. And let's let an entire season play out before we categorize someone in any elite category.

TheNumber37
02-25-2013, 07:44 PM
Can't be considered an elite shooter with human free throw percentages.

Iggz53
02-25-2013, 07:44 PM
I'd also like to mention that 3 years ago, Derrick Rose shot jumpers inside the arc at a higher rate and higher percentage than LeBron this year. I don't see that classifying Rose as an elite shooter, even back then.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-25-2013, 08:03 PM
Good yes! Elite no!

ManRam
02-25-2013, 08:27 PM
I don't know how you could objectively look at what he's done this season, and look at the stats, and not conclude that he is an elite shooter this year.

ManRam
02-25-2013, 08:39 PM
I'd also like to mention that 3 years ago, Derrick Rose shot jumpers inside the arc at a higher rate and higher percentage than LeBron this year. I don't see that classifying Rose as an elite shooter, even back then.

OK. Cool! Bulls fans always gotta get in how disrespected Rose is ;)

So Derrick Rose for one season shot the ball really well from one spot on the floor...and you say that therefore if we say LeBron is elite, than Rose should have been considered too?

Talking about 2009-2010? (3 years ago, right? If not, that's the year should be picking because that was his best shooting year from within the arc).


He shot 26.7% from three. He had a TS% of 53.2% and an eFG% of 49.5.

He shot 44% from 16-23 feet and 50% from 10-15 feet.

LeBron is shooting 41% from three. He has a TS% of 63.9% and an eFG% of 60.5.

He's shooting 43% from 16-23 feet and 43.3% from 10-15.

So Rose is better from 10-15 feet, about the same from 16-23 and gets absolutely destroyed in every other regard.


Sorry to hurt your feelings, but I'm not calling Derrick Rose an elite shooter, especially if the only reason to do so is because I think LeBron might be :laugh:


LeBron is no Ray Allen in his prime, but he's shooting better from 16 feet and on than Melo, Kobe, Harden and is right there with KD. I think that's elite enough. He might not shoot it from deep as much, but he does do it a lot, and he's incredibly efficient when he does.

Iggz53
02-25-2013, 08:55 PM
OK. Cool! Bulls fans always gotta get in how disrespected Rose is ;)

So Derrick Rose for one season shot the ball really well from one spot on the floor...and you say that therefore if we say LeBron is elite, than Rose should have been considered too?

Talking about 2009-2010? (3 years ago, right? If not, that's the year should be picking because that was his best shooting year from within the arc).


He shot 26.7% from three. He had a TS% of 53.2% and an eFG% of 49.5.

He shot 44% from 16-23 feet and 50% from 10-15 feet.

LeBron is shooting 41% from three. He has a TS% of 63.9% and an eFG% of 60.5.

He's shooting 43% from 16-23 feet and 43.3% from 10-15.

So Rose is better from 10-15 feet, about the same from 16-23 and gets absolutely destroyed in every other regard.


Sorry to hurt your feelings, but I'm not calling Derrick Rose an elite shooter, especially if the only reason to do so is because I think LeBron might be :laugh:


LeBron is no Ray Allen in his prime, but he's shooting better from 16 feet and on than Melo, Kobe, Harden and is right there with KD. I think that's elite enough. He might not shoot it from deep as much, but he does do it a lot, and he's incredibly efficient when he does.

I'm sorry, what? In what way did I sneak in a "disrespect of Rose"? I clearly stated that I would not call Rose an elite shooter. What you have done, however, is attempt to downgrade my opinion just because I'm a Bulls fan, so congrats for that. I thought you were supposed to be one of the better posters?

As for your response, you keep bringing up TS% as if that's an indicator of jump-shooting and not scoring efficiency. So really the "destroyed in every other regard" is 3-point shooting. Because Rose "destroys" LeBron in free throw shooting. The other 'regards" are LeBron's interior skills and ability to get to the foul line, which are not indiactors of shooting ability.

Next time you respond, I'd appreciate it if you just respond to the content and leave the personal ******** out of it. Also, you only quoted a follow-up to my original point.

HYFR
02-26-2013, 12:30 AM
Shots fired

SportsFanatic10
02-26-2013, 12:38 AM
lol, its funny that several lakers fans come in here and without reading the article or knowing anything at all really, just blindly say..."duh well all his shots are layups and dunks, duh". what a bunch of morons, they're practically allergic to facts, no wonder they can never back up their arguments.

Ill21
02-26-2013, 12:43 AM
I don't think he is elite, but he does shoot at a very high level. To be honest I thought he would never fully develop this part of his game, glad he proved me wrong.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-26-2013, 01:04 AM
I'd want to see him do it for a couple more years before I consider him 'elite'. But he's been improving over the years.

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-26-2013, 01:29 AM
I wouldn't call him elite sure he is super efficient because most of his shots come form 5-10 feet out, but he is an above average shooter now, elite not yet, he's very streaky though

:facepalm:

READ THE ARTICLE. lol

my goodness, just dont comment on any thread lebron related, cos u usually make up things to discredit lebron.

:rolleyes:

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-26-2013, 01:31 AM
anyways, he is among the best shooters in the nba. end of discussion, anyways checkin out that sick pregame dunk by bron ;)

Demon11
02-26-2013, 02:13 AM
1. Enter thead betting Laker's fans are the only ones discrediting Lebron.
2. Truth
3.???
4. Profit

mightybosstone
02-26-2013, 03:02 AM
It's scary to think that he could be an elite shooter as well, because that seemed to be the one area which required the most improvement. He's a 6'8", 250-pound forward who can post up like a 4, defend like a 3, shoot like a 2 and handle like a 1. To think he's only 28 and to see how Kobe still plays at a very high level at 34 and it's not unrealistic to think Lebron could still be putting up freakishly efficient numbers into his early 30s. Now if only his shooting improvement could translate to better free throw shooting. A Lebron James shooing 50/40/90 is a terrifying thought.

--23--
02-26-2013, 04:42 AM
I'd call him a smarter shooter now, not an elite shooter. He cut down on taking a high number of long jump shots compared to his previous years, and pretty much balanced his game out. As a defender I would still rather him take a lot of contested long jumpers instead to getting anywhere near the basket.

tdg823
02-26-2013, 09:13 AM
So he plays 9 seasons, shoots good for 3/4 of a season and he's elite, huh? Maybe we should reserve judgement until he's amassed a larger body of evidence to dispute that he's not such a good shooter. Or strike while the irons hot to prove a point that people have falsely claimed for years now. His shooting this year is Much improved, I never thought he'd do it, but it's still a silly small sample size. The only thing it really shows is improvement.

rockbottom2010
02-26-2013, 09:27 AM
the scary part is that he can score in any kind of way.....

mightybosstone
02-26-2013, 10:43 AM
So he plays 9 seasons, shoots good for 3/4 of a season and he's elite, huh? Maybe we should reserve judgement until he's amassed a larger body of evidence to dispute that he's not such a good shooter. Or strike while the irons hot to prove a point that people have falsely claimed for years now. His shooting this year is Much improved, I never thought he'd do it, but it's still a silly small sample size. The only thing it really shows is improvement.

A "silly small" sample size is like 5-10 games or maybe a quarter of a season. But a guy shooting 41% from 3-point range for more than 50 games of a season is legitimate data. And of course it shows improvement. It shows a HUGE improvement for a career .336 3-point shooter, even if he did shoot better than 36% last year.

So many star players get by on making a third of their 3-point attempts while never improving that aspect of their games: Kobe, Wade, McGrady, Iverson, Wilkins and even MJ (although he shot much better from long range the two years after the comeback). If Lebron keeps this up for the rest of his career, he will arguably be the most versatile, efficient scorer in the history of the NBA.

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-26-2013, 10:50 AM
So he plays 9 seasons, shoots good for 3/4 of a season and he's elite, huh? Maybe we should reserve judgement until he's amassed a larger body of evidence to dispute that he's not such a good shooter. Or strike while the irons hot to prove a point that people have falsely claimed for years now. His shooting this year is Much improved, I never thought he'd do it, but it's still a silly small sample size. The only thing it really shows is improvement.

...
you do realize that there is a way to see bron's improvements from all areas of the court right? and from 2009 he has been among the league's best from all areas except the 10-15ft range.

so i dont follow your small sample size unless 2-3 years is a small sample size to you, than nvm.

before you start blindly hating, I'd advise you to look up the stats first so you dont come out looking like a douche.

3RDASYSTEM
02-26-2013, 11:17 AM
When did ALLEN or BIRD or DURANT become elite shooters?

BRON coming out of HS had according to scouting reports 26 ft range in HS

now which level of a shooter is he at is the ?

showing that dumbass pct chart doesn't make him elite or not

just like it doesn't for the other 'elite' shooters I mentioned above

they had it at high level entering NBA, ALLEN was shooting like that against my kinfolk at UCONN, same with BIRD/DURANT/MELO/AI/WEST/D.SCOTT

because you post these numbers don't make you smart and doesn't prove a point, we all watch and can see how good he can shoot from midrange/3pt(he been in league 10yrs,damn), BRONs not an elite shooter this yr nor his rookie yr, hes always been decent to good and could improve(which we've witnessed), but he will never ever be an elite shooter in the ilk of a DURANT/AI/BIRD/ALLEN/D.ELLIS and others

that's why I know 'elite' is a media driven word, BRON is 'legit' as a shooter, straight out of HS

mightybosstone
02-26-2013, 11:31 AM
When did ALLEN or BIRD or DURANT become elite shooters?
Actually, after Bird's rookie season, he had four consecutive years before he shot better than 29% from the 3-point line again. And Durant was a .288 3-point shooter in his rookie year. So you could argue that neither of those guys were immediately, consistently elite 3-point shooters in their early years.


showing that dumbass pct chart doesn't make him elite or not
The phrase "dumbass pct chart" made me laugh out loud. Do you realize how stupid that makes you sound?


just like it doesn't for the other 'elite' shooters I mentioned above
Soooo.... if I showed you a chart that said Allen, Durant and Bird were career 20% free throw shooters, you would still blindly defend them? Is there no statistic worth keeping track of then? Hell, we should just stop keeping score of the games altogether and give the win to the team that looks like they're playing the best.


they had it at high level entering NBA, ALLEN was shooting like that against my kinfolk at UCONN, same with BIRD/DURANT/MELO/AI/WEST/D.SCOTT
You are aware that Melo and AI are statistically poor 3-point shooters for their career, right? And that Jerry West never attempted a 3-pointer, because they didn't exist during his career?


because you post these numbers don't make you smart and doesn't prove a point, we all watch and can see how good he can shoot from midrange/3pt(he been in league 10yrs,damn), BRONs not an elite shooter this yr nor his rookie yr, hes always been decent to good and could improve(which we've witnessed), but he will never ever be an elite shooter in the ilk of a DURANT/AI/BIRD/ALLEN/D.ELLIS and others
Okay.... Why do you keep including Iverson in the "elite shooter" category? He was a horrible perimeter hooter who posted a career .313 average from beyond the arc and never shot better than 34.5% in a full season! And so what if Lebron didn't come out of high school and shoot 40%? We're not talking about the first 8-9 years, we're talking about the last couple of seasons. This is a "what have you done for me lately" league. If someone asked you who the best player in the NBA was, you wouldn't say Kobe or Duncan, because they used to be among the best in the league. You would say Lebron or Durant, because they're the current alpha dogs.


that's why I know 'elite' is a media driven word, BRON is 'legit' as a shooter, straight out of HS
What the **** does this even mean? It's like you went out of your way to make the dumbest possible post you could concoct and then ended it with a completely ludicrous statement that has no meaning!

3RDASYSTEM
02-26-2013, 11:32 AM
When did ALLEN or BIRD or DURANT become elite shooters?

BRON coming out of HS had according to scouting reports 26 ft range in HS

now which level of a shooter is he at is the ?

showing that dumbass pct chart doesn't make him elite or not

just like it doesn't for the other 'elite' shooters I mentioned above

they had it at high level entering NBA, ALLEN was shooting like that against my kinfolk at UCONN, same with BIRD/DURANT/MELO/AI/WEST/D.SCOTT

because you post these numbers don't make you smart and doesn't prove a point, we all watch and can see how good he can shoot from midrange/3pt(he been in league 10yrs,damn), BRONs not an elite shooter this yr nor his rookie yr, hes always been decent to good and could improve(which we've witnessed), but he will never ever be an elite shooter in the ilk of a DURANT/AI/BIRD/ALLEN/D.ELLIS and others

that's why I know 'elite' is a media driven word, BRON is 'legit' as a shooter, straight out of HS

They should place a ban on posting stats to try to justify your EINSTEIN to feel accepted in new digital age nba circle talk

no great player back in old days or new day talk about WILT or JORDAN or WEST or MAGIC being dominant players based on PER or WS% or none of that newage digital science talk , it was about they game/impact on hardwood

been like that since its inception, and no matter how many EINSTEINS come up with new bball science talk it will always go back to its inception, game/impact on hardwood

3RDASYSTEM
02-26-2013, 11:37 AM
MIGHTYBOSS

BIRD had a flame coming into NBA, quit showing me dumb *** pct to justify a ice cold shooter

this dude told everybody they coming in 2nd place in NBA 3pt contest, imagine had he been in college or HS, he would have said and done same thing

same with DURANT at UT and IVERSON at G'TOWN, are you seriously trying to say IVERSON cant shoot because he played with SNOW/MCKIE and had to shoot 40x a game to cover up for they lack of offensive game?

no need to reply to you no more since you said BIRD shot 29pct from 3 or something of that nature, who cares what pct he shot

Its like im saying the most basic basketball **** ever and since you guys are EINSTEINS its hard to comprehend because your trying to justify a ice cold shooter with a pct/ws/per


like what the hell, RAY ALLEN had a flame at UCONN, KERR has a spotup flame,PAXSON had a spot up flame, MILLER/ALLEN/IVERSON ran off screens shooting from 3pt/18-20ft, who in the hell can do that if you cant shoot? how in the **** would a HOF coach in BROWN run AI off screens baseline to baseline to 3pt line to shoot if he cant shoot?

you EINSTEINS are the ****

did BIRD have a flame when he entered league or was he known for being a high flyer? cased closed

its like me saying MAGIC's allaround game wasn't 'elite' til he wont ship his rookie yr

no he had that preNBA, his all around game was flame, or do I need a PER/WS% to justify that also for MAGIC?

mightybosstone
02-26-2013, 11:38 AM
They should place a ban on posting stats to try to justify your EINSTEIN to feel accepted in new digital age nba circle talk

no great player back in old days or new day talk about WILT or JORDAN or WEST or MAGIC being dominant players based on PER or WS% or none of that newage digital science talk , it was about they game/impact on hardwood

been like that since its inception, and no matter how many EINSTEINS come up with new bball science talk it will always go back to its inception, game/impact on hardwood
The sad thing is the "Einstein" numbers you're referring to are basically just FG% numbers, the same statistics that have been used to measure a player's talent for decades. It's pretty simple, bro. Divide the number of jumpers made by the number of jumpers attempted and you see who the best jump shooters are. Or did you not pay attention in third and fourth-grade math classes?

mightybosstone
02-26-2013, 11:39 AM
MIGHTYBOSS

BIRD had a flame coming into NBA, quit showing me dumb *** pct to justify a ice cold shooter

this dude told everybody they coming in 2nd place in NBA 3pt contest, imagine had he been in college or HS, he would have said and done same thing

same with DURANT at UT and IVERSON at G'TOWN, are you seriously trying to say IVERSON cant shoot because he played with SNOW/MCKIE and had to shoot 40x a game to cover up for they lack of offensive game?

no need to reply to you no more since you said BIRD shot 29pct from 3 or something of that nature, who cares what pct he shot

did BIRD have a flame when he entered league or was he known for being a high flyer? cased closed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9kpTvm6CYA

3RDASYSTEM
02-26-2013, 11:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9kpTvm6CYA

This is what you meant to post EINSTEIN

http://youtu.be/nU3Aud_Rxq4

http://youtu.be/JTJxJV_jHEE

http://youtu.be/6juMVqT09bo

Now go back and hide in your science lab and make up some new ****

make sure all you current and future EINSTEINS pay very close attention to those guys shooting 3/jumpers and tell me did they not have it from day1, not via a PER/WS%, im talking about a flame, pct is based on talent around you, I already broke that **** down to you non players on here

just look at BRON and BOSH and WADE pct together and when they weren't a trio

also watch the net swish, another sign of player who knows how to 'shoot' or has a flame,its pretty much natural, they supremely master it at next level right?

mightybosstone
02-26-2013, 11:56 AM
This is what you meant to post EINSTEIN

http://youtu.be/nU3Aud_Rxq4

http://youtu.be/JTJxJV_jHEE

http://youtu.be/6juMVqT09bo

Now go back and hide in your science lab and make up some new ****

make sure all you current and future EINSTEINS pay very close attention to those guys shooting 3/jumpers and tell me did they not have it from day1, not via a PER/WS%, im talking about a flame, pct is based on talent around you, I already broke that **** down to you non players on here

just look at BRON and BOSH and WADE pct together and when they weren't a trio

You realize that "Einstein" is a compliment, not an insult, right? Why would I be upset by you complimenting my intelligence? Also, I posted exactly the video I meant to. Posting highlights of NBA players when they were in college means absolutely nothing and proves no point whatsoever. In fact, I'm not even sure what your point was to begin with, I just know that it was wrong.

Chronz
02-26-2013, 11:57 AM
MIGHTYBOSS

BIRD had a flame coming into NBA, quit showing me dumb *** pct to justify a ice cold shooter

this dude told everybody they coming in 2nd place in NBA 3pt contest, imagine had he been in college or HS, he would have said and done same thing

same with DURANT at UT and IVERSON at G'TOWN, are you seriously trying to say IVERSON cant shoot because he played with SNOW/MCKIE and had to shoot 40x a game to cover up for they lack of offensive game?

no need to reply to you no more since you said BIRD shot 29pct from 3 or something of that nature, who cares what pct he shot

Its like im saying the most basic basketball **** ever and since you guys are EINSTEINS its hard to comprehend because your trying to justify a ice cold shooter with a pct/ws/per


like what the hell, RAY ALLEN had a flame at UCONN, KERR has a spotup flame,PAXSON had a spot up flame, MILLER/ALLEN/IVERSON ran off screens shooting from 3pt/18-20ft, who in the hell can do that if you cant shoot? how in the **** would a HOF coach in BROWN run AI off screens baseline to baseline to 3pt line to shoot if he cant shoot?

you EINSTEINS are the ****

did BIRD have a flame when he entered league or was he known for being a high flyer? cased closed

its like me saying MAGIC's allaround game wasn't 'elite' til he wont ship his rookie yr

no he had that preNBA, his all around game was flame, or do I need a PER/WS% to justify that also for MAGIC?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN5Ry3EawI0

3RDASYSTEM
02-26-2013, 12:03 PM
You realize that "Einstein" is a compliment, not an insult, right? Why would I be upset by you complimenting my intelligence? Also, I posted exactly the video I meant to. Posting highlights of NBA players when they were in college means absolutely nothing and proves no point whatsoever. In fact, I'm not even sure what your point was to begin with, I just know that it was wrong.

EINSTEIN is a diss because hes no smarter than BOOKER T or whoever but is viewed as this so called media genius, im not giving you props at all

and of course since you don't play ball and never have it wouldn't mean anything to see a player have the same ability/game/shot in NBA as they did preNBA, in college/HS BIRD/DURANT/AI had they game before you saw them play in NBA, that's all im showing you, the basic of it... your EINSTEIN is whats causing the confusion bringing up BIRD shot 29pct or some bs, who cares he still had a flame from anywhere basically on court

the point was showing that BRON was who he was shooting wise since CHRONZ posted that chart

everytime I say basic **** it just flies over the genius head, if you actually played it would be that much easier

3RDASYSTEM
02-26-2013, 12:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN5Ry3EawI0

Msg to EINSTEIN ring leader

This is what you meant to post EINSTEIN

http://youtu.be/nU3Aud_Rxq4

http://youtu.be/JTJxJV_jHEE

http://youtu.be/6juMVqT09bo

Now go back and hide in your science lab and make up some new ****

now tell me they didn't/don't play same exact style as in college as entering the NBA, Im talking shooting/playing/passing etc?

3RDASYSTEM
02-26-2013, 12:07 PM
Sorry to hurt people feelings around here where you have to post vids on AI/DURANT/BIRD (comedy,YOGA FLAME)not shooting or showcasing they game preNBA

sorry that I had to show proof of that to kill all this EINSTEIN madness going on in psdville

mightybosstone
02-26-2013, 12:10 PM
EINSTEIN is a diss because hes no smarter than BOOKER T or whoever but is viewed as this so called media genius, im not giving you props at all
Are you comparing the guy who developed the theory of relativity to a professional wrestler?


and of course since you don't play ball and never have it wouldn't mean anything to see a player have the same ability/game/shot in NBA as they did preNBA, in college/HS BIRD/DURANT/AI had they game before you saw them play in NBA, that's all im showing you, the basic of it... your EINSTEIN is whats causing the confusion bringing up BIRD shot 29pct or some bs, who cares he still had a flame from anywhere basically on court
WTF is a flame? Can you show me where it is on a player's body? Can you measure it? Whose flame is largest? Does the Lebron have a small flame and that's what's preventing him from becoming an elite 3-point shooter?


everytime I say basic **** it just flies over the genius head, if you actually played it would be that much easier
I think I'm going to just stop arguing with you, because every time I do you make less sense than before and I feel like I'm trying to argue with a brick wall. You really shouldn't post on PSD unless you can form coherent thoughts and explain them in writing.

3RDASYSTEM
02-26-2013, 12:15 PM
No im trying to show you when something is overrated and mediahyped as this genius when its nothing close to being it, such as this PER/WS%..this **** is all media agenda, I aint tripping ..just speaking on it, don't take it personal, unless you really believe in EINSTEIN

Now I don't even want to continue since its obvious you haven't even played at your local park, let alone organized ball

answer me this, do you know what 'buckets' mean in bball term? since a player with a flame(pretty good to lethal shooter) just went over your EINSTEIN genius dome, wow bball America, we are in trouble

of course we should stop debating because while im speaking on basic bball ****, you're trying to justify how good or great a player can shoot based on his 29pct or PER or WS%, Just a bunch of made up EINSTEIN caveman type ****, that's more like it right there

3RDASYSTEM
02-26-2013, 12:19 PM
This is what you meant to post EINSTEIN

http://youtu.be/nU3Aud_Rxq4

http://youtu.be/JTJxJV_jHEE

http://youtu.be/6juMVqT09bo

Now go back and hide in your science lab and make up some new ****

and also tell me what did those players do diff. when they entered NBA to display they game? did they play same or no? weren't they that good individually basically? how did BIRDs flame become so lethal? 3 rings do it? or was it natural? i'll take the latter since im no genuis

3RDASYSTEM
02-26-2013, 12:29 PM
I've never seen WILT play but this EINSTEIN told me his PER was 30.5

my reply was he is so elite

damn that 38ppg rookie yr or his 50ppg 3rd yr or his 30ppg in his 10th, just tell me what his PER is and that will let me know,thanks psd

where the true EINSTEIN geniuses reside,psdville

tdg823
02-26-2013, 12:29 PM
3/4 of one season is roughly 7-8% of a 9 year basketball career. 7-8% is a pretty darn silly small sample size. If you call him an elite shooter you ignore 90+% of his career. And we already had the argument about the last 2-3 years. He was improving during that time, rounding into an AVERAGE shooter, but even in those years he didn't hardly impress. You showed me the stats already, i'm basing that off of what you cited when we discussed this 2 months ago or so...

Chronz
02-26-2013, 12:51 PM
Msg to EINSTEIN ring leader

This is what you meant to post EINSTEIN

http://youtu.be/nU3Aud_Rxq4

http://youtu.be/JTJxJV_jHEE

http://youtu.be/6juMVqT09bo

Now go back and hide in your science lab and make up some new ****

now tell me they didn't/don't play same exact style as in college as entering the NBA, Im talking shooting/playing/passing etc?
No I posted the correct vid the first time, and damn that sucks if your saying AI never improved his game. I thought you liked him. You can keep hoping I go and "hide" but Ill be here until you bore me, then we start it all over again in a few days, right bud.

Chronz
02-26-2013, 12:52 PM
Sorry to hurt people feelings around here where you have to post vids on AI/DURANT/BIRD (comedy,YOGA FLAME)not shooting or showcasing they game preNBA

sorry that I had to show proof of that to kill all this EINSTEIN madness going on in psdville

Except you didn't show proof, you showed a highlight reel.

Want me to go find an old game and show all of a players misses and say "see, bro had no flame and now hedo"?

KnicksR4Real
02-26-2013, 12:55 PM
Are you gonna cry? Sorry he made a misleading comment.

Stinkyoutsider
02-26-2013, 01:34 PM
Lebron has finally changed his mindset and it's showing this year. There's very few players who don't have to take what the defense gives them to be productive. He can get to the basket when he wants, he can pull up and shoot, and he can post when he wants to. The big thing for James is he's figured out what's best for his game.

Other guys may be better shooters from the outside, but they have to take what the defense gives them. But not James and that what makes him great.

mightybosstone
02-26-2013, 01:46 PM
wow bball America, we are in trouble

You're right, we are. We have neanderthals like yourself who can't formulate a sentence trying to justify Allen Iverson as an elite shooter based on highlight reels and using "flame" as a justification for what makes a great shooter. Have I played basketball in my local park? Of course. Who hasn't? That doesn't mean I sit around and use dumbed down terminology like "flame" to argue my points.

And I think it's really sad that you're trying to demean people who use intelligence and common sense to make an argument. That's not only one of my biggest problems with sports today, it's my biggest problem with society.

tdg823
02-26-2013, 02:06 PM
And I think it's really sad that you're trying to demean people who use intelligence and common sense to make an argument. That's not only one of my biggest problems with sports today, it's my biggest problem with society.[/QUOTE]

Says the man from Texas...You're politicians and school boards are know for demeaning reason, common sense and science aren't they?
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you at all,I just had to throw that little dig in there, no offense meant... half humor/half observation

tdg823
02-26-2013, 02:07 PM
Isn't Austin like the liberal haven in Texas? Like the oasis in a desert of conservative madness?

dodgersuck
02-26-2013, 02:18 PM
This thread went downhill fast

mightybosstone
02-26-2013, 02:28 PM
Says the man from Texas...You're politicians and school boards are know for demeaning reason, common sense and science aren't they?
In all seriousness, I don't disagree with you at all,I just had to throw that little dig in there, no offense meant... half humor/half observation


Isn't Austin like the liberal haven in Texas? Like the oasis in a desert of conservative madness?

Believe me, I'm all to aware of how conservative a state is and I live in one of the most conservative counties of the state. It blows. But I went to college in Austin, and yes, it is an incredibly awesome, super liberal city. I'm trying like hell to move back there.

And I know you're joking, but you really shouldn't judge all Texans as being ultra-Republican rednecks. I was born into a conservative family in a super conservative part of the state and couldn't be more liberal.

Steelers23_06
02-26-2013, 02:42 PM
3/4 of one season is roughly 7-8% of a 9 year basketball career. 7-8% is a pretty darn silly small sample size. If you call him an elite shooter you ignore 90+% of his career. And we already had the argument about the last 2-3 years. He was improving during that time, rounding into an AVERAGE shooter, but even in those years he didn't hardly impress. You showed me the stats already, i'm basing that off of what you cited when we discussed this 2 months ago or so...

He's definitely above average this year. And Jordan wasn't a great shooter at the beginning of his career but it developed about mid-career and I think it safe to say lebron is hittin mid career right now so if he stays on this path he will be an elite shooter. And one thing that lebron has in common with Jordan is their determination to improve everything they can. Every season they adjusted something in their game. Jordan did it up until he retired in Washington and lebron has done it every season since he was drafted. And with that said I don't see him getting worse. During their Olympic run lebron was competing and winning shoot outs at practice with melo, Kobe & Durant. Something he admittedly shied away from his last Olympic run.

Hitman 3:16
02-26-2013, 02:50 PM
"Elite Shooter" is a misnomer. Better term to describe LeBron would be "Elite Scorer". He has the all-around game offensively; labeling him in any form of a shooter would actually be a disservice to him, because that is only one facet of his offensive repertoire, which I'll admit he's vastly improved over the last 3-4 yrs.

Krizzle88
02-26-2013, 04:55 PM
he'll never be an elite shooter hes just taking shots he knows he can make

Demon11
02-26-2013, 06:17 PM
he'll never be an elite shooter hes just taking shots he knows he can make

This makes zero sense.