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Big Zo
02-22-2013, 02:41 PM
Let's say LeBron returns to Cleveland, but doesn't win anything. Will he be remembered as a Cav, or Miami Heat?

OceanSpray
02-22-2013, 03:12 PM
I still remember him as a Cav because his impact on that team will never be forgotten. With that being stated, he's better off a Miami Heat. He's had the most success with that team and has a chance to win another two rings. I don't think he's ever going to sign with Cleveland again. Dan Gilbert really did a huge hit on him and a return to Cleveland might hurt his marketability.

king4day
02-22-2013, 04:43 PM
It depends on if he wins anymore rings with the Heat. If won this year and next year and then went back, I'd say he'll be remembered as a Heat.

D-Leethal
02-22-2013, 04:54 PM
Heat definitely. He will be remembered as the guy who left the hometown Cavs to join the stacked Heat and win a championship. Call me a hater but thats what people will remember. He will still be known as one of the GOAT's but the decision is going to be watermarked on his legacy no matter what people want to say about the situation.

gotoHcarolina52
02-22-2013, 05:00 PM
He will be remembered as an NBA Champion.

xRipCity
02-22-2013, 05:06 PM
Heat definitely. He will be remembered as the guy who left the hometown Cavs to join the stacked Heat and win a championship. Call me a hater but thats what people will remember. He will still be known as one of the GOAT's but the decision is going to be watermarked on his legacy no matter what people want to say about the situation.

The reason he left is cause he waited 9 years for Gilbert to get him 1 PIECE to work with. You can't win by yourself so he left and found his Scottie Pippen (Wade) and won a championship

Sactown
02-22-2013, 05:13 PM
Heat definitely. He will be remembered as the guy who left the hometown Cavs to join the stacked Heat and win a championship. Call me a hater but thats what people will remember. He will still be known as one of the GOAT's but the decision is going to be watermarked on his legacy no matter what people want to say about the situation.

I don't think you're a homer and I agree, look at the all time rankings and like able players?

MJ-Bulls
BIRD-Celts
Bill Russell-Celts
Magic Johnson-Laker
Kobe Bryant- Laker
Isiah Thomas- Piston
Tim Duncan- Spur
Karl Malone-Jazz
John Stockton- Jazz
DREAM- Rockets


You look at players who impacted the game, and the most memorable, are ones who played for one team, It's not fair, but it's true.

People LOVE stories about players being career team players.

xRipCity
02-22-2013, 05:16 PM
I don't think you're a homer and I agree, look at the all time rankings and like able players?

MJ-Bulls
BIRD-Celts
Bill Russell-Celts
Magic Johnson-Laker
Kobe Bryant- Laker
Isiah Thomas- Piston
Tim Duncan- Spur
Karl Malone-Jazz
John Stockton- Jazz
DREAM- Rockets


You look at players who impacted the game, and the most memorable, are ones who played for one team, It's not fair, but it's true.

People LOVE stories about players being career team players.

None of them were stuck with Gilbert. End of story lol

OceanSpray
02-22-2013, 05:19 PM
I don't think you're a homer and I agree, look at the all time rankings and like able players?

MJ-Bulls
BIRD-Celts
Bill Russell-Celts
Magic Johnson-Laker
Kobe Bryant- Laker
Isiah Thomas- Piston
Tim Duncan- Spur
Karl Malone-Jazz
John Stockton- Jazz
DREAM- Rockets


You look at players who impacted the game, and the most memorable, are ones who played for one team, It's not fair, but it's true.

People LOVE stories about players being career team players.

Check your list, no one from Cleveland. Why? Because they are a trash franchise. People should remember LeBron for saving Cleveland. The way they were playing before he came, they might as well disband the damn team. The impact LeBron had on Ohio as a state was that much more incredible. LeBron was the team. I don't blame him one damn bit for not staying. At the end of the day, if he stayed in Cleveland, he wouldn't have won a ring and they would remember him as the greatest player to never win a ring.

SOS
02-22-2013, 05:25 PM
The reason he left is cause he waited 9 years for Gilbert to get him 1 PIECE to work with. You can't win by yourself so he left and found his Scottie Pippen (Wade) and won a championship

It's not that he left. Its the way he did it and the fact that he had to join 2 other top 15 players in order to win a championship. He is the best player in the game, he really should not need that much help.

Sactown
02-22-2013, 05:26 PM
Check your list, no one from Cleveland. Why? Because they are a trash franchise. People should remember LeBron for saving Cleveland. The way they were playing before he came, they might as well disband the damn team. The impact LeBron had on Ohio as a state was that much more incredible. LeBron was the team. I don't blame him one damn bit for not staying. At the end of the day, if he stayed in Cleveland, he wouldn't have won a ring and they would remember him as the greatest player to never win a ring.


You're really not understanding what I'm saying... I'm a big Lebron James fan, and I agree he got no help in Cleveland and had terrible management, but ALL I'M SAYING is that, the general PUBLIC likes Hero stories, and Lebron isn't one of them...

Sactown
02-22-2013, 05:27 PM
It's not that he left. Its the way he did it and the fact that he had to join 2 other top 15 players in order to win a championship. He is the best player in the game, he really should not need that much help.

Eh without Lebron the Miami Heat aren't the best team in the league, so I don't think it's "That much help" There has been plenty of teams more stacked.

OceanSpray
02-22-2013, 05:29 PM
You're really not understanding what I'm saying... I'm a big Lebron James fan, and I agree he got no help in Cleveland and had terrible management, but ALL I'M SAYING is that, the general PUBLIC likes Hero stories, and Lebron isn't one of them...

Yes, but your list is based off what you think. No one is saying that.. Kobe wasn't a LAL his entire career, he was traded. When his career is long gone, no one will care about Cavs.

Big Zo
02-22-2013, 05:30 PM
So Shaq isn't likeable because he played for a bunch of different teams? What about Kareem, who also played for the Bucks?

Arch Stanton
02-22-2013, 05:30 PM
Check your list, no one from Cleveland. Why? Because they are a trash franchise. People should remember LeBron for saving Cleveland. The way they were playing before he came, they might as well disband the damn team. The impact LeBron had on Ohio as a state was that much more incredible. LeBron was the team. I don't blame him one damn bit for not staying. At the end of the day, if he stayed in Cleveland, he wouldn't have won a ring and they would remember him as the greatest player to never win a ring.

There are hall of famers who played for the Cavs - Nate Thurmond, Walt Frasier, Lenny Wilkens, Chuck Daly, and Wayne Embry. And... LeBron James will be another one day. Probably Kyrie too!
Ocean Spray, you fit the definition of a TROLL.

Arch Stanton
02-22-2013, 05:32 PM
Yes, but your list is based off what you think. No one is saying that.. Kobe wasn't a LAL his entire career, he was traded. When his career is long gone, no one will care about Cavs.

Actually there will. There are Cavs fans they just don't troll internet forums 24/7 like you.

xRipCity
02-22-2013, 05:32 PM
I'd consider Chauncey Billups to be a fairly likeable guy.

OceanSpray
02-22-2013, 05:32 PM
There are hall of famers who played for the Cavs - Nate Thurmond, Walt Frasier, Lenny Wilkens, Chuck Daly, and Wayne Embry. And... LeBron James will be another one day. Probably Kyrie too!
Ocean Spray, you fit the definition of a TROLL.

None of those players you mentioned were or are on LeBron's level.. They don't deserve to be mentioned along with those individuals that he listed. You have no idea what you're typing up.

SOS
02-22-2013, 05:38 PM
Eh without Lebron the Miami Heat aren't the best team in the league, so I don't think it's "That much help" There has been plenty of teams more stacked.

At the time that he signed Wade was a top 3 player and Bosh was considered top 10. Without Lebron the Heat are still a top 3 team in the east

Arch Stanton
02-22-2013, 05:40 PM
None of those players you mentioned were or are on LeBron's level.. They don't deserve to be mentioned along with those individuals that he listed. You have no idea what you're typing up.

Two are top 50. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm typing. I had my exorcism yesterday so I am no longer possessed.

D-Leethal
02-22-2013, 05:50 PM
I'm not trying to troll LeBron and I don't think Sactown is. I genuinely believe thats what his legacy will be remembered as.

'One of the greatest ever, BUT......'

If you catch my drift. Thats just reality.

D-Leethal
02-22-2013, 05:51 PM
And I completely agree Cavs did a piss poor job surrounding him with a championship caliber cast, and don't blame him for leaving, its about where he left (his hometown), how he left (broadcasted on TV to rip the hearts out of said hometown fans) and who he teamed up with (a top 3 player and a top 10-15 player at the time) thats going to be the watermark.

Melo15
02-22-2013, 05:56 PM
Two are top 50. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm typing. I had my exorcism yesterday so I am no longer possessed.

:laugh2:

Slug3
02-22-2013, 05:56 PM
I don't think you're a homer and I agree, look at the all time rankings and like able players?

MJ-Bulls
BIRD-Celts
Bill Russell-Celts
Magic Johnson-Laker
Kobe Bryant- Laker
Isiah Thomas- Piston
Tim Duncan- Spur
Karl Malone-Jazz
John Stockton- Jazz
DREAM- Rockets


You look at players who impacted the game, and the most memorable, are ones who played for one team, It's not fair, but it's true.

People LOVE stories about players being career team players.

There are a few on there that played for more than one franchise.

OceanSpray
02-22-2013, 06:34 PM
Two are top 50. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm typing. I had my exorcism yesterday so I am no longer possessed.

Again, none of them were on the level of Magic, Hakeem, Stockton, etc. They were good, not great. Cleveland has the crappiest franchises ever. As the great Noah said, "What is Cleveland?"

Arch Stanton
02-22-2013, 06:50 PM
Again, none of them were on the level of Magic, Hakeem, Stockton, etc. They were good, not great. Cleveland has the crappiest franchises ever. As the great Noah said, "What is Cleveland?"

If they are in the top 50 they are great. So according to you Noah is on the same level as Magic, Hakeem, and Stockton? Or is he great because he knows how to troll fans??? Like you!!!
How do you define the crappiest franchises ever? I don't think a Cleveland team ranks in the top 10. Despite it's appeal, Cleveland is a great sports town. But you probably have never been here and are just regurgitating national perspective because you lack any sort of individuality and are a real loser in life. That is why you hang out in forums with twitter balls picking fights with other teams fans.

Jroz
02-22-2013, 06:59 PM
Someone made the comment earlier..how could he possibly reunite with Dan Gilbert hahaha...based on that, these hypotheticals are pointless...a more realistic hypothetical question would be....

When Lebron leaves in two years, buys the Bobcats from Jordan and moves them to Akron Ohio, what will the team be named? I say the Akron Templar, since Lebron refers to himself as a King and all..gotta have some knights

Philapsychosis
02-22-2013, 07:06 PM
If they are in the top 50 they are great. So according to you Noah is on the same level as Magic, Hakeem, and Stockton? Or is he great because he knows how to troll fans??? Like you!!!
How do you define the crappiest franchises ever? I don't think a Cleveland team ranks in the top 10. Despite it's appeal, Cleveland is a great sports town. But you probably have never been here and are just regurgitating national perspective because you lack any sort of individuality and are a real loser in life. That is why you hang out in forums with twitter balls picking fights with other teams fans.

Hahaha, got em! I liked Cleveland when I was there. Cincy on the other hand I wasn't a fan of. The one thing I did notice is the insane amount of passion in the sports fans. For having so little success, you guys never give up hope haha. I always half heatedly hope for the best for Cleveland franchises because of that.

justinnum1
02-22-2013, 07:07 PM
He is def going back to cle.

Dade County
02-22-2013, 07:17 PM
It's not that he left. Its the way he did it and the fact that he had to join 2 other top 15 players in order to win a championship. He is the best player in the game, he really should not need that much help.

Blame the C's, Lakers, big market stack teams, and the NBA.
So he should have stayed in Cleveland and tried his best ( but his best can't fight the way the NBA is set up, and the Cav's ownership ).

SOS
02-22-2013, 07:24 PM
Blame the C's, Lakers, big market stack teams, and the NBA.
So he should have stayed in Cleveland and tried his best ( but his best can't fight the way the NBA is set up, and the Cav's ownership ).

No I had no problem with him leaving Cleveland. They had every chance to build a good team to keep him and failed. The way he left and the the fact that he had to join 2 other superstars to win will tarnish his legacy. If he had gone to any other team you would see people being more ok with it.

And I hate the blame the celtics excuse. They built their team through good basketball moves. Not superstars plan to team up and just sign outright.

Dade County
02-22-2013, 07:43 PM
No I had no problem with him leaving Cleveland. They had every chance to build a good team to keep him and failed. The way he left and the the fact that he had to join 2 other superstars to win will tarnish his legacy. If he had gone to any other team you would see people being more ok with it.

And I hate the blame the celtics excuse. They built their team through good basketball moves. Not superstars plan to team up and just sign outright.

So you can't use the same reasoning when it comes to Pat Riley having the foresight to plan and maneuver, 3 to 4yrs before Lbj & Bosh became free agents.

Do you think it was Wade that came up with the idea for them to play with each other?! I can answer that for you, NO!



If he had gone to any other team you would see people being more ok with it.

Let me guess... Bulls or knicks right?

People should understand this if they didn't already... If anyone would have been left out, it would have been Bosh; no matter what! Lbj & Wade was going to play together.

Just because Lbj wanted to broadcast the "Decision", and is a diva... His ego at the time, needed the spot light to be on him.

These guys treated that free agency like a game... and for that, some fans will always have bad feelings towards them.

Lbj could have played it any way he wanted, fans still would be mad at him, because he teamed up with Wade.

After all like 5 teams had their shot at talking to Lbj, he could have simply held a pres-conference after informing the Cav's, that he wouldn't resign with them... and told the world, that Pat Riley impressed him so much that he is going to take his talents to south beach.

Then Bosh could have been like, **** i'm going to south beach too... but I still thanks that fans would have found away to hate him.

SOS
02-22-2013, 08:00 PM
So you can't use the same reasoning when it comes to Pat Riley having the foresight to plan and maneuver, 3 to 4yrs before Lbj & Bosh became free agents.

Do you think it was Wade that came up with the idea for them to play with each other?! I can answer that for you, NO!



Let me guess... Bulls or knicks right?

People should understand this if they didn't already... If anyone would have been left out, it would have been Bosh; no matter what! Lbj & Wade was going to play together.

Just because Lbj wanted to broadcast the "Decision", and is a diva... His ego at the time, needed the spot light to be on him.

These guys treated that free agency like a game... and for that, some fans will always have bad feelings towards them.

Lbj could have played it any way he wanted, fans still would be mad at him, because he teamed up with Wade.

After all like 5 teams had their shot at talking to Lbj, he could have simply held a pres-conference after informing the Cav's, that he wouldn't resign with them... and told the world, that Pat Riley impressed him so much that he is going to take his talents to south beach.

Then Bosh could have been like, **** i'm going to south beach too... but I still thanks that fans would have found away to hate him.

I can't say it was a good basketball move by pat riley to do that because he wasn't some genius who was the only one to have the idea. Tons of teams did that because they knew of the FA class.

You say no matter what Lebron and Wade were gonna play together yet they didn't plan it? How is that even possible?

The fact that he had to join another top 3 player the way he did will always tarnish his legacy. Let alone another top 15 player as well.

He could of went to ANY other team and people would not have been as enraged because of the talent he joined.

Sactown
02-22-2013, 08:05 PM
There are a few on there that played for more than one franchise.

There prime and majority of career was spent in one place. That's my point, they weren't changing teams in their prime.

Sactown
02-22-2013, 08:06 PM
I can't say it was a good basketball move by pat riley to do that because he wasn't some genius who was the only one to have the idea. Tons of teams did that because they knew of the FA class.

You say no matter what Lebron and Wade were gonna play together yet they didn't plan it? How is that even possible?

The fact that he had to join another top 3 player the way he did will always tarnish his legacy. Let alone another top 15 player as well.

He could of went to ANY other team and people would not have been as enraged because of the talent he joined.

That's absolutely not true.

DumDum
02-22-2013, 09:01 PM
He will be remembered as an NBA Champion.


1+

Ill21
02-22-2013, 09:15 PM
He is def going back to cle.

Sarcasm?

justinnum1
02-22-2013, 09:19 PM
Sarcasm?

No. He will finish his career there.

Ill21
02-22-2013, 09:25 PM
No. He will finish his career there.

So in what like his last contract or do you think he will go when this deal is up?

OceanSpray
02-22-2013, 11:48 PM
So you can't use the same reasoning when it comes to Pat Riley having the foresight to plan and maneuver, 3 to 4yrs before Lbj & Bosh became free agents.

Do you think it was Wade that came up with the idea for them to play with each other?! I can answer that for you, NO!



Let me guess... Bulls or knicks right?

People should understand this if they didn't already... If anyone would have been left out, it would have been Bosh; no matter what! Lbj & Wade was going to play together.

Just because Lbj wanted to broadcast the "Decision", and is a diva... His ego at the time, needed the spot light to be on him.

These guys treated that free agency like a game... and for that, some fans will always have bad feelings towards them.

Lbj could have played it any way he wanted, fans still would be mad at him, because he teamed up with Wade.

After all like 5 teams had their shot at talking to Lbj, he could have simply held a pres-conference after informing the Cav's, that he wouldn't resign with them... and told the world, that Pat Riley impressed him so much that he is going to take his talents to south beach.

Then Bosh could have been like, **** i'm going to south beach too... but I still thanks that fans would have found away to hate him.

Wade and Bosh obviously resigned with Heat because LeBron agreed too... LeBron just announced his decision later because of The Decision(which raised $3 millions for charity but we can just ignore that because no one cares these days about helping).

Big Zo
02-23-2013, 10:37 AM
There prime and majority of career was spent in one place. That's my point, they weren't changing teams in their prime.

Kareem did. He's pretty well liked. So is Shaq.

Dade County
02-23-2013, 12:08 PM
I can't say it was a good basketball move by pat riley to do that because he wasn't some genius who was the only one to have the idea. Tons of teams did that because they knew of the FA class.

ummm, HEAT cleared enough cap to sign 3 All star players..... all other teams in the race that year, could only fit two or one All star players.

So in short Pat did his job better then anyone else that year.



You say no matter what Lebron and Wade were gonna play together yet they didn't plan it? How is that even possible?

I didn't say Wade & Lbj never talked about it, but I am betting that Pat was the originator of the idea... He had to plan and make sure it was possible; if he didn't do what he did, the big 3 never could have gotten together on their own.



The fact that he had to join another top 3 player the way he did will always tarnish his legacy. Let alone another top 15 player as well.

You can look at it that way... So I am guessing you look at every free agent this way; if a all star free agent doesn't go to a bad team, or a team that he can become the man, he tarnishes his legacy.

So in other words, Lbj should have said, well Miami has the money to sign me, Pat is a great GM, but I can't sign with them because Wade is going to resign their too, and his way to good of a player.

I should only sign with a team that has maybe 1 above average player.



He could of went to ANY other team and people would not have been as enraged because of the talent he joined.

Got it, he should have signed with the Clippers, Nets, bulls, (resign with the Cav's), or the team you've been waiting for me to type, the Knicks... that year right!?

ClevelandSpider
02-23-2013, 12:50 PM
Wow some of you casual fans are completely lost on what happened in Cleveland and Miami regarding LeBron's decision to leave and Pat Riley assembling the big 3...so I'll break it down for you:

#1 Cavs Front Office Epically Failed Myth: While true to some degree, the end result is that they didn't do enough to keep LeBron. But it's deeper than that. They went all out to win now when LeBron was on the team. His noncommittal to the Cavs forced them to take risks, gamble and mortgage away the future for a chance to win now. Every player they signed LeBron not only gave his approval, he begged them to go out and get them...they traded away draft picks and took on bad contracts because LeBron forced them too...they made a few bad signings ala Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall, Damon Jones, guys that never really panned out, but it wasn't like the deals they signed were head scratchers...they had played well before but just went downhill...their biggest mistake was trusting Carlos Boozer with a handshake agreement and voiding the last year of his contract so he could sign longterm, instead of went out and signed a bigger deal with the Jazz, had they not voided his contract under a gentlemen's agreement, his first year in Utah would have been in Cleveland and for about 400k...so yes the Cavs FO didn't do enough, but LeBron forced their hand and made them mortgage the future to assemble a team that could compete now, then he left it in shambles

#2 Pat Riley Is a Mastermind Myth: Pat Riley did nothing more than clear cap space to give Miami enough space to add 3 players, that agreed to team up together at the 2008 Beijing Olympics...it was collusion 100%...I don't think LeBron ever intended to resign in Cleveland in 2010, he was worried about being a King without a ring and was gone as soon as the Olympics ended with him, Bosh and Wade having USA Gold...it's not like Riley saw talent in players others didnt, he didn't take risks with guys that other teams were hesitant too, he signed 3 of the best players in the league, it was a no brainer, they colluded to team up in Miami

#3 Dan Gilbert's Reaction Post Decision Will Stop LeBron from Returning Myth: Lets face it, Dan Gilbert was stupid with his open letter to the fans...as fans, we can act stupid, we can burn jerseys, cry ourselves to sleep, he's a professional, a face of the franchise, he has to hold himself to a higher standard...if a few fans burn jerseys who cares, every fan base has stupid fans, and those fans are a very small percentage of the entire fan base, when an owner makes an *** of himself, its a big deal...that being said, LeBron's departure was stupid too, he didn't tell the Cavs FO until 2 minutes before the Decision aired, which was on the 8th if July, well into free agency and giving the Cavs no fall back plans for adding players...the way he announced it, the way he left, he regrets it, he could have done it better, so he and Gilbert both made mistakes...

I'm not confident he'll return but I think there's a good chance. Winning in Cleveland means more than winning in Miami and LeBron knows that. To bring a title to such a starved city would do great things for his legacy. I can see him returning and playing the prodigal son card. If he doesn't return, its not because of his rocky relationship with Dan Gilbert. I think LeBron will go to the best situation in 2014, the team that is most ready to compete for a title. I think its safe to say at this point he cares about winning above all else and if the Cavs haven't continued to grow by the summer of 2014, he won't return, but I think they'll be in prime position to land him

justinnum1
02-23-2013, 01:15 PM
No. He will finish his career there.

So in what like his last contract or do you think he will go when this deal is up?

Hard to say. If he wins rings this season and next I think he stays In Miami for now. I think he stays in Miami till he is 32 or 33. But he could leave before then.

eugene
02-23-2013, 01:24 PM
Heat definitely. He will be remembered as the guy who left the hometown Cavs to join the stacked Heat and win a championship. Call me a hater but thats what people will remember. He will still be known as one of the GOAT's but the decision is going to be watermarked on his legacy no matter what people want to say about the situation.

This...

Pistol_Pete
02-24-2013, 02:40 AM
Yes, but your list is based off what you think. No one is saying that.. Kobe wasn't a LAL his entire career, he was traded. When his career is long gone, no one will care about Cavs.

When you're traded on draft day, I don't think it counts as playing for another team. So yes, Kobe, has been a Laker his entire career.

Unless LeBron went back to Cleveland and won a championship there, he's likely going to be remembered as a member of the Heat. It's really as simple as that I think. He's been playing incredibly well in Miami.

Rndy
02-24-2013, 02:46 AM
When you're traded on draft day, I don't think it counts as playing for another team. So yes, Kobe, has been a Laker his entire career.

Unless LeBron went back to Cleveland and won a championship there, he's likely going to be remembered as a member of the Heat. It's really as simple as that I think. He's been playing incredibly well in Miami.

I'll always remember Kobe as a Hornet.

Sactown
02-24-2013, 02:49 AM
I'll always remember Kobe as a Hornet.
:laugh2: