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View Full Version : Does Roy Hibbert have one of the worst contracts?



beasted86
02-22-2013, 12:24 PM
He makes $13.6M to put up 9.9 PPG, 8.2 REB, 2.6 BLK on 41% FG. He hasn't been injured, he's just not that good, plain and simple. And this is just the first year of a 4 year max contract.

He's 26 and doesn't have a lot of upside IMO. What you see is what you get as far as I am concerned. When Granger comes back, some of his numbers might even go down.

Chronz
02-22-2013, 12:30 PM
I think he suffers from not having enough help, if anything his numbers should bounce back up with Granger.

I haven't checked out his numbers but I'm pretty sure his usage has skyrocketed beyond his optimal skill curve. Hes prolly being relied upon too much with not enough spacing to help offset the added responsibilities. Could be wrong, maybe hes just regressed but it seems abit early for that, especially for a bigman

Sly Guy
02-22-2013, 12:31 PM
no, andrea bagnani has a/the wors(e/t) contract

IndyRealist
02-22-2013, 12:41 PM
#1 defense in the league. #1 in FG defense. #1 in 3pt% defense. That's all because of Hibbert. Because he controls the paint so dominantly, wings don't have to help down in the paint, staying on shooters and funnel driving ballhandlers into the shot blocker. He doesn't put up gaudy numbers, but he isn't asked to. As Chronz said, he forces his offense too much trying to compensate for the loss of Granger, and the added spacing should help his efficiency.

Portland was willing to pay him the exact same contract, and Indy couldn't afford to lose their defensive anchor after taking a solid shot at Miami last playoffs. It's the same reason Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay got huge deals.

JiffyMix88
02-22-2013, 12:48 PM
#1 defense in the league. #1 in FG defense. #1 in 3pt% defense. That's all because of Hibbert. Because he controls the paint so dominantly, wings don't have to help down in the paint, staying on shooters and funnel driving ballhandlers into the shot blocker. He doesn't put up gaudy numbers, but he isn't asked to. As Chronz said, he forces his offense too much trying to compensate for the loss of Granger, and the added spacing should help his efficiency.

Portland was willing to pay him the exact same contract, and Indy couldn't afford to lose their defensive anchor after taking a solid shot at Miami last playoffs. It's the same reason Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay got huge deals.

Hibbert for DOPY?

bloomis1307
02-22-2013, 12:51 PM
Honestly, I think he deserves to be mentioned in that category.

ombada
02-22-2013, 12:56 PM
Hibbert for DOPY?

no, George is a better defensive player just on our team. But Hibbert is a huge part of our defensive success. He clogs up the middle and plays straight up. He doesnt collect fouls like he had in years past and puts up great block numbers, which the op conveniently left out.

I will be the first to admit that this year has been disappointing from an offensive standpoint, but Chronz is right. The lack of spacing on the court has really hurt his offensive game. Early in the season he was getting doubled every time he touched the ball. They were coming off of Stephenson or Hill to double. Hill would sit at the top of the key and Stephenson was not as productive as he is now. Since then we have gotten much more continuity from the entirety of the team on offense, but his numbers are going to stay low because he is the 3 option. George is first, then West and finally Hibbert. When Granger comes back he will be the 4th, but he will get more open opportunities because the defender cant pull off of a good shooter like Granger.

waveycrockett
02-22-2013, 01:00 PM
No Brook Lopez has the worst contract of all time.

ombada
02-22-2013, 01:00 PM
I also forgot to mention he has missed soooo many gimmes at the rim, i mean an ungodly amount. If he puts in just 25% of the point blank shots hes missed, his PPG % probably goes up by 2 or 3 on the season. He hasnt seemed right on the offensive end all year.

MrfadeawayJB
02-22-2013, 01:02 PM
I think he does do stuff that does not show up in the statline. But is he overpaid? Sure, most Centers in the league who can catch a ball and move without falling are.

jiggin
02-22-2013, 01:22 PM
You are welcome.

Sincerely,

The Blazers

GREATNESS ONE
02-22-2013, 01:23 PM
no, andrea bagnani has a/the wors(e/t) contract

/Thread

OceanSpray
02-22-2013, 01:29 PM
I don't want to hear about "not enough help."

Roy should be the first option in the Pacers. The fact that he isn't just gives Paul George the motor to be it. Overrated since last year.

LAKobeBryant
02-22-2013, 01:48 PM
no he played excellent last year.

xRipCity
02-22-2013, 01:50 PM
It would have to be Bargs.

Few years ago Rashard Lewis and AK47 were also in this category

IndyRealist
02-22-2013, 01:54 PM
I don't want to hear about "not enough help."

Roy should be the first option in the Pacers. The fact that he isn't just gives Paul George the motor to be it. Overrated since last year.

Why? Even last year when he put up career numbers, he wasn't the 1st option on offense. He gets paid for defense first and foremost.

OceanSpray
02-22-2013, 01:58 PM
Why? Even last year when he put up career numbers, he wasn't the 1st option on offense. He gets paid for defense first and foremost.

1) Lack of centers in today's era. He should be dominating the paint.
2) With Granger out, he had the opportunity to be the best on that team. It didn't work out and now Paul George is the first option.

Let's face it, he's a huge disappointment. Even on the defensive end, he's been a disappointment.

Freyakazoide
02-22-2013, 02:00 PM
1) Lack of centers in today's era. He should be dominating the paint.
2) With Granger out, he had the opportunity to be the best on that team. It didn't work out and now Paul George is the first option.

Let's face it, he's a huge disappointment. Even on the defensive end, he's been a disappointment.


Oh god...

mdm692
02-22-2013, 02:02 PM
:puke:. Those are Gortat #'s at double the cost.

xRipCity
02-22-2013, 02:11 PM
Olshey is a genius.

Screwed the Pacers future by forcing them to max Roy Hibbert.

IndyRealist
02-22-2013, 02:18 PM
1) Lack of centers in today's era. He should be dominating the paint.
2) With Granger out, he had the opportunity to be the best on that team. It didn't work out and now Paul George is the first option.

Let's face it, he's a huge disappointment. Even on the defensive end, he's been a disappointment.

1) David West is the primary post option. Unlike wings who can choose not to pass the ball, big men are dependent on ball handlers to get them in scoring position. Plays are called for West, not Hibbert.

2) Paul George was always going to break out this year. The Pacers force fed him the ball early and often. Watching him light up opponents now makes it easy to forget that in November he was HORRIBLE. Couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Turnover machine. There was talk of trading him. Then the Pacers adjusted what they ran for him (less iso/dribble penetration, more cuts and 3's) and he went on a Ray Allen-like shooting regimen, taking hundreds of shots before games. The result? All-star. The plan was always for George to be the primary option with Granger out.

3) Roy Hibbert anchors the #1 defense in the league. I don't see how that's a disappointment.

OceanSpray
02-22-2013, 02:22 PM
1) David West is the primary post option. Unlike wings who can choose not to pass the ball, big men are dependent on ball handlers to get them in scoring position. Plays are called for West, not Hibbert.

2) Paul George was always going to break out this year. The Pacers force fed him the ball early and often. Watching him light up opponents now makes it easy to forget that in November he was HORRIBLE. Couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Turnover machine. There was talk of trading him. Then the Pacers adjusted what they ran for him (less iso/dribble penetration, more cuts and 3's) and he went on a Ray Allen-like shooting regimen, taking hundreds of shots before games. The result? All-star. The plan was always for George to be the primary option with Granger out.

3) Roy Hibbert anchors the #1 defense in the league. I don't see how that's a disappointment.

1) West is the primary because Hibbert lacks that ability.
2) If Granger wasn't injured, George wouldn't be posting these numbers. If Roy was playing the way he did last year and better, he would be the first option. He just doesn't have the moves to do it and that's his fault. He got paid a huge contract and doesn't develop any offensive moves.
3) He's a disappointment because he should be the best center right now.

IndyRealist
02-22-2013, 02:23 PM
Olshey is a genius.

Screwed the Pacers future by forcing them to max Roy Hibbert.

The Pacers apparently planned for it. The 3 other guys they signed this summer to multi-year deals, George Hill, Gerald Green, and Ian Mahimni, all have flat contracts with no raises. We're probably going to see a lot more of that in the future for non-max players, so teams don't get stuck against the tax line like New York did.

beasted86
02-22-2013, 02:33 PM
1) West is the primary because Hibbert lacks that ability.
2) If Granger wasn't injured, George wouldn't be posting these numbers. If Roy was playing the way he did last year and better, he would be the first option. He just doesn't have the moves to do it and that's his fault. He got paid a huge contract and doesn't develop any offensive moves.
3) He's a disappointment because he should be the best center right now.

I agree with most of this line of thinking.

Hibbert is a disappointment, period. He should be Alonzo Mourning-esque on defense if that's his specialty and he's not relied upon to score. Instead he's still somewhat foul prone, misses a ton of close shots at the basket, and overall hasn't really added much to his game over his career. Slight improvements here and there, but nothing significant. He never truly earned that max deal and it is a worse contract than Rudy Gay or Joe Johnson since those guys are top 2-3 players on most teams in the NBA. Hibbert might truly be the 4th best player on the Pacers when Granger comes back and he's really not close to an all-star level Center since there are easily 5-6 better Centers in just the Eastern Conference alone excluding Bynum who hasn't played this year.

Blitzbolt
02-22-2013, 02:56 PM
This is really dumb look at Marc Gasol and ZBO is hard to get good stats when you have a great PF C combo West steals alot of his rebounds and points.

And also the way he owns the Paint on Defense is worth it.

ziglur
02-22-2013, 03:02 PM
I think he suffers from not having enough help, if anything his numbers should bounce back up with Granger.

I haven't checked out his numbers but I'm pretty sure his usage has skyrocketed beyond his optimal skill curve. Hes prolly being relied upon too much with not enough spacing to help offset the added responsibilities. Could be wrong, maybe hes just regressed but it seems abit early for that, especially for a bigman

Im from Indiana and hes not very good now that he got the big contract. He looked promising till this year. Some players just dont put in the work after getting for the big bucks. His minutes had gone down not up. There are better options in the 4th quarter most of the time.

Htownballa1622
02-22-2013, 03:05 PM
I remember when Omer Asik got "overpaid"

Looks like Daryl Morey wins again :win:

b@llhog24
02-22-2013, 07:55 PM
I think he suffers from not having enough help, if anything his numbers should bounce back up with Granger.

I haven't checked out his numbers but I'm pretty sure his usage has skyrocketed beyond his optimal skill curve. Hes prolly being relied upon too much with not enough spacing to help offset the added responsibilities. Could be wrong, maybe hes just regressed but it seems abit early for that, especially for a bigman

His usg is identical to last year, but consistent spacing is invaluable in the Nba.


You are welcome.

Sincerely,

The Blazers

:cool:

ombada
02-22-2013, 09:38 PM
Most of the people posting in here dont watch Pacers games and its obvious.


Im from Indiana and hes not very good now that he got the big contract. He looked promising till this year. Some players just dont put in the work after getting for the big bucks. His minutes had gone down not up. There are better options in the 4th quarter most of the time.

This is flat out BS. He is one of the hardest working players on the team if not the entire NBA. Recently when we came back from a three games in three nights stint, the only one in the NBA this season, instead of going home and going to sleep he went to the Training facility and lifted weights. He works his *** off and his work ethic is well known in Indiana.

His minutes have dropped because we actually have a legit 7'0 Center behind him in Mahinmi

His defense is superb. Period. Theres nothing more to say about it. He is not foul prone. He has become an expert at going straight up and he changes a great many opposing offensive possessions. His defense has grown substantially.

His offense will come. He is 7'2 and at some point those point blank shots will fall at a higher consistency. He is still in the first year of his contract. People need to be a little more patient with their judgments... like this for instance:


I agree with most of this line of thinking.

Hibbert is a disappointment, period. He should be Alonzo Mourning-esque on defense if that's his specialty and he's not relied upon to score. Instead he's still somewhat foul prone, misses a ton of close shots at the basket, and overall hasn't really added much to his game over his career. Slight improvements here and there, but nothing significant. He never truly earned that max deal and it is a worse contract than Rudy Gay or Joe Johnson since those guys are top 2-3 players on most teams in the NBA. Hibbert might truly be the 4th best player on the Pacers when Granger comes back and he's really not close to an all-star level Center since there are easily 5-6 better Centers in just the Eastern Conference alone excluding Bynum who hasn't played this year.

before this year, people on this board were calling for Joe Johnson to retire. They were saying he is a shell of his former self. Now he is a top 2-3 player on most teams. Be patient he isnt even a full year removed from an all star year.

and name me 5-6 better Centers in the East. Lopez, Noah...? Who else is there? Maybe Greg Monroe... Thats really a stretch.

ombada
02-22-2013, 09:51 PM
I just want to make it completely clear how i feel about Hibbert. His offense has been very disappointing. Im not trying to argue that. But people that dont watch us dont see how valuable his defense has been to the success of this team. It has been excellent.

--23--
02-22-2013, 10:01 PM
Offensively, yea he have not been producing numbers similar/better than his last 2 seasons, but he's making it up on the defensive end...And it shows!

tmacsc2
02-22-2013, 10:38 PM
#1 defense in the league. #1 in FG defense. #1 in 3pt% defense. That's all because of Hibbert. Because he controls the paint so dominantly, wings don't have to help down in the paint, staying on shooters and funnel driving ballhandlers into the shot blocker. He doesn't put up gaudy numbers, but he isn't asked to. As Chronz said, he forces his offense too much trying to compensate for the loss of Granger, and the added spacing should help his efficiency.

Portland was willing to pay him the exact same contract, and Indy couldn't afford to lose their defensive anchor after taking a solid shot at Miami last playoffs. It's the same reason Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay got huge deals.

Great post!!

beasted86
02-22-2013, 11:03 PM
Most of the people posting in here dont watch Pacers games and its obvious.



This is flat out BS. He is one of the hardest working players on the team if not the entire NBA. Recently when we came back from a three games in three nights stint, the only one in the NBA this season, instead of going home and going to sleep he went to the Training facility and lifted weights. He works his *** off and his work ethic is well known in Indiana.

His minutes have dropped because we actually have a legit 7'0 Center behind him in Mahinmi

His defense is superb. Period. Theres nothing more to say about it. He is not foul prone. He has become an expert at going straight up and he changes a great many opposing offensive possessions. His defense has grown substantially.

His offense will come. He is 7'2 and at some point those point blank shots will fall at a higher consistency. He is still in the first year of his contract. People need to be a little more patient with their judgments... like this for instance:



before this year, people on this board were calling for Joe Johnson to retire. They were saying he is a shell of his former self. Now he is a top 2-3 player on most teams. Be patient he isnt even a full year removed from an all star year.

and name me 5-6 better Centers in the East. Lopez, Noah...? Who else is there? Maybe Greg Monroe... Thats really a stretch.

No, it's not a stretch. Chris Bosh, Kevin Garnett, Brook Lopez, Al Horford, Greg Monroe, Tyson Chandler, Anderson Varejao, Joakim Noah. That's actually 8 not even including Bynum who are Centers, and if you are using the "traditional Center" metric then it still leaves 5. The stats aren't even really close when comparing any of these to Hibbert. Sorry, the defense intangibles of Hibbert cannot compensate for how much their stats dwarf Hibbert's, and some of those guys are defensive players themselves.

Sure, if you want to nitpick, you can throw in "this year"... but that's basically the premise of this thread.... "this year" now that he's making almost $14M he is not close to living up to the contract.

beasted86
02-22-2013, 11:12 PM
Look, to make it clear, I'm not hating on Hibbert or the Pacers. I thought he was going to be a really good Center based on last season, and I thought with Granger injured I expected this to become "his team". I thought based on last season's playoff matchup against the Pacers, it became clear to me he had the biggest impact against Miami in that series and was their best player even though ESPN refers to it as Grangers team because he runs his mouth the most.

But the fact is, this year, Hibbert kinda sucks TBH. He is not living up to a max contract and is overpaid for what he gives the Pacers. And like I said, even though he is the highest paid player on the Pacers... he could very well be the 4th best player on the team, and that's sort of sad since the Pacers don't have one top 20 NBA player in the whole bunch.

ombada
02-23-2013, 07:20 AM
No, it's not a stretch. Chris Bosh, Kevin Garnett, Brook Lopez, Al Horford, Greg Monroe, Tyson Chandler, Anderson Varejao, Joakim Noah. That's actually 8 not even including Bynum who are Centers, and if you are using the "traditional Center" metric then it still leaves 5. The stats aren't even really close when comparing any of these to Hibbert. Sorry, the defense intangibles of Hibbert cannot compensate for how much their stats dwarf Hibbert's, and some of those guys are defensive players themselves.

Sure, if you want to nitpick, you can throw in "this year"... but that's basically the premise of this thread.... "this year" now that he's making almost $14M he is not close to living up to the contract.

The premise of the thread is over the next 4 years, because the OP is asking if his contract is the worst in the NBA. We wont truly know that until the contract expires, or is at least expiring.

Bold are not Centers. When teams like the Pacers who have two legit big men play them, those players revert back to PF. (boston does C by committee, Hawks play Pachulia at C, and the Heat try to use Anthony at C because Bosh gets constantly abused down low by all our bigs)

Varejao is injured for the year so hes not better than anyone right now.

Tyson Chandler is just not better. 11/11/1 is not 'dwarfing' 10/8/2.6 and Noah's 12/11/2 isnt dwarfing much either. I hate stats, they dont tell the whole story *like when Hibbert at 7'2 dives the ground for loose balls or the ridiculous amount of shots he changes at the rim or how he is consistently making smart passes out of the post that usually lead to points. He does the little things that fans appreciate.* but even if we were talking strictly numbers, they are close. Noah, Lopez and Monroe are Centers that IMO have outplayed Hibbert in the east this year. Chandler and Hibbert are playing at a similar offensive level.

* This is all fan perspective. We watch every game and see how hard he works to produce victories.

Yes, he is overpaid. Yes, his offense has been disappointing. But again he is still a solid center, on a down year in terms of scoring, that has drastically improved his defense and meant a lot to our teams overall success. His offense WILL catch up, it might not happen this year, but i would expect improvement over the offseason because no one is more disappointed in his offensive game than he is, and he has been the first to tell the fans every opportunity he gets.


Look, to make it clear, I'm not hating on Hibbert or the Pacers. I thought he was going to be a really good Center based on last season, and I thought with Granger injured I expected this to become "his team". I thought based on last season's playoff matchup against the Pacers, it became clear to me he had the biggest impact against Miami in that series and was their best player even though ESPN refers to it as Grangers team because he runs his mouth the most.

But the fact is, this year, Hibbert kinda sucks TBH. He is not living up to a max contract and is overpaid for what he gives the Pacers. And like I said, even though he is the highest paid player on the Pacers... he could very well be the 4th best player on the team, and that's sort of sad since the Pacers don't have one top 20 NBA player in the whole bunch.

I agree with the Bold.

but you do need to understand that this team wasnt put together with the same mentality as your HEAT. They dont need a top 20 player. If they had one it would just be an added bonus. This team was put together kind of like the Grizzlies, or the Pistons mid 2000's teams. This team was intended to not have any positions of weakness, have athleticism and length at every position and to be aggressive and defensive minded. In that, Hibbert fits in perfectly.

I dont think we are disagreeing too much here, I just dont think this contract is or will be the worst in the NBA. I see a lot of positives in the way Hibbert has played that should expand his game in the future.

Pacerlive
02-23-2013, 01:30 PM
He's also dealt with a bum wrist most of the off season and only recently has healed up. Roy is mentally frail on the offensive end and he can get into a funk pretty easy. That doesn't mean he doesn't work hard or won't get out of his poor shooting woes and taken his entire career as a Pacer he hasn't been overpaid. He has been a great locker room guy and relatively healthy for his position but of course you can have your headaches of Bynum and Howard and watch your talented Center take down your entire season. I like Roy even if he isn't as talented because chemistry is the reason the Pacers are doing so well and that's what other teams think they create with malcontents.

Chronz
02-23-2013, 04:13 PM
Look, to make it clear, I'm not hating on Hibbert or the Pacers. I thought he was going to be a really good Center based on last season, and I thought with Granger injured I expected this to become "his team". I thought based on last season's playoff matchup against the Pacers, it became clear to me he had the biggest impact against Miami in that series and was their best player even though ESPN refers to it as Grangers team because he runs his mouth the most.

But the fact is, this year, Hibbert kinda sucks TBH. He is not living up to a max contract and is overpaid for what he gives the Pacers. And like I said, even though he is the highest paid player on the Pacers... he could very well be the 4th best player on the team, and that's sort of sad since the Pacers don't have one top 20 NBA player in the whole bunch.
So your saying Indiana should have let him walk? Is the 2M or so more that hes getting paid worth scrapping your squad? As you said, without him, their chances of dethroning Miami are zilch.


On a team like that, the top-4 are pretty interchangeable. But I think its fair to say Hibbert is more valuable than Granger given their performance without him. George is the only one I would say is clearly more important than him.

However I was wrong about his usage%, it seems hes still accounting for the same % of possessions, maybe its a matter of quality. His Fg% is historically(aka last 3-years) stronger with Granger on the court.

Sactown
02-23-2013, 04:22 PM
He's overpaid, but it's not like Indiana had a choice, Portland offered him the max and Indiana either had to match, or shoot down into mediocrity and possibly missing the playoffs and having to start over.

topdog
02-23-2013, 09:01 PM
Olshey is a genius.

Screwed the Pacers future by forcing them to max Roy Hibbert.

So what does that make Kahn for having the Blazer pay Batum $12M per year?

JNoel
02-23-2013, 09:04 PM
Birdman is better.