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View Full Version : Did LBJ give up on the Cavs to early?



Jayrich28
02-19-2013, 12:16 AM
I'm throwing this out there and will make one comparison. Thats kg he spent so many years in minny fans were begging him to leave for higher ground. But his situation was very understandable he played his tail off but his team was a perennial 7 or 8 seed. He finally got a little help in 04 and he delivered taking his team to the wcf only to have that team broken up and minny back to rebuilding.

That brings me to lebron he work his tail off and put the cavs back on the map. He surprised most leading the cavs to the finals in 07 beating the mighty pistons. Although they lost it was a valuable learning experience. Then they follow up and two years straight the get homecourt for having the best record in the league.

Compared to kg was it really that bad in cleveland for him to leave when he did?

Also seeing him now and him finally reaching his potential, posting up, better shooting, dominating at both ends, and mentally tougher. Could he have reached this stage in cleveland?

justinnum1
02-19-2013, 12:22 AM
He would still be ringless if he was on the cavs.

waveycrockett
02-19-2013, 12:24 AM
Lets see 2 nba finals in 2 years. NOPE

IndyRealist
02-19-2013, 12:29 AM
KG was under contract when he was traded from Minnesota. I don't see how the situations compare. If he could have left, he probably would have. And I'm not the only one to suspect KG tanked games in his last year in Minny.

felixng2012
02-19-2013, 12:33 AM
Nope. Would be stuck with scrub players his entire career. Inept FO and unattractive FA destination.

Jayrich28
02-19-2013, 12:35 AM
KG was under contract when he was traded from Minnesota. I don't see how the situations compare. If he could have left, he probably would have. And I'm not the only one to suspect KG tanked games in his last year in Minny.

It's still comparable kg decide to stay and signed a new contract with minny. Many though he was being too loyal cuz minny hadn't really been a contender. Him leaving was kind of a good service.

HYFR
02-19-2013, 12:37 AM
Never got him a legit 2 option in the 7 years he was there so no.

Jayrich28
02-19-2013, 12:43 AM
Nope. Would be stuck with scrub players his entire career. Inept FO and unattractive FA destination.

Very possible do you think a coaching change would have helped ala collins out for phil. Plus lebron strengthing his game to where it is now. Its not too many teams right now in the league that with lbj playing at this level wouldnt be championship level.

MarkieMark48
02-19-2013, 12:43 AM
I'm throwing this out there and will make one comparison. Thats kg he spent so many years in minny fans were begging him to leave for higher ground. But his situation was very understandable he played his tail off but his team was a perennial 7 or 8 seed. He finally got a little help in 04 and he delivered taking his team to the wcf only to have that team broken up and minny back to rebuilding.

That brings me to lebron he work his tail off and put the cavs back on the map. He surprised most leading the cavs to the finals in 07 beating the mighty pistons. Although they lost it was a valuable learning experience. Then they follow up and two years straight the get homecourt for having the best record in the league.

Compared to kg was it really that bad in cleveland for him to leave when he did?

Also seeing him now and him finally reaching his potential, posting up, better shooting, dominating at both ends, and mentally tougher. Could he have reached this stage in cleveland?

Not unless ownership changed.. Here's Larry Hughes, mo Williams and a beat up shaq that can only play 20 mins a game. What he did in Cleveland was remarkable. Some people that dislike Lebron use Lebrons Cleveland day to knock him, I use them to show how great he is carrying that team full of scrubs to multiple playoff births and a finals appearance.

LAKobeBryant
02-19-2013, 12:51 AM
I think if he won at Cleveland and "doing it himself" it would be levelled in the kobe vs lebron debate that Jordan brought up about 5 against 1. That one is way more significant and he's brining Cleveland the first NBA Championship also doing it for his city.

justinnum1
02-19-2013, 12:56 AM
they wouldnt have kyrie...

Guppyfighter
02-19-2013, 01:03 AM
they wouldnt have kyrie...

Nah, they could still get him. Take the unprotected pick and Baron Davis. And than you can draft Kyrie.

zn23
02-19-2013, 01:08 AM
He would still be ringless if he was on the cavs.

I agree. If you look at their roster they simply did not have the weapons around him. He had to play perfect every game to have a chance of winning. If he had an average night the Cavs could end up losing the game.

Since LeBron left their record has been: 55-142..... With LeBron they were winning 60 games a year. In 3 years they can't even get to 60 lol.

This team was simply a mess.

rockbottom2010
02-19-2013, 01:10 AM
everybody knows the answer to this...stupid forum...next

Swift Game
02-19-2013, 01:15 AM
He may go back to the Cavs in 2014 to join Kyrie...that would be interesting. But no way they draft Kyire 1st overall if Lebron was still with the Cavs. They would have a much better record and less ping pong balls. simple.

nastynice
02-19-2013, 01:18 AM
I wonder the same thing as the op. Lebron was always a beast, but he's just something else these last few years. Its hard to say wether he would have had the same success. Well, actually, he wouldn't have the SAME success, but he still might've been able to get some rings there. The only thing is, its understandable why he got frustrated, cleveland has the most garbage front office, what they put around lebron was just not good. I gotta say tho, his "legacy" would've been much more valuable had he stayed in cleveland, if he reached this level in cleveland, its possible he could've gotten a ring or more even with the garbage the cavs fo was putting around him.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
02-19-2013, 01:21 AM
He would still be ringless if he was on the cavs.

Debatable.


Nah, they could still get him. Take the unprotected pick and Baron Davis. And than you can draft Kyrie.

Cavs wouldn't make that trade if LeBron was still in Cleveland. That and they wouldn't have the cap space too.

Guppyfighter
02-19-2013, 01:31 AM
Debatable.



Cavs wouldn't make that trade if LeBron was still in Cleveland. That and they wouldn't have the cap space too.

They could make the room.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
02-19-2013, 01:35 AM
They could make the room.

It would've been near impossible to be able to clear at least 10-15 million.

Hawkeye15
02-19-2013, 01:49 AM
No, he did not.

Jeffy25
02-19-2013, 01:52 AM
1. They wouldn't have Kyrie if he hadn't left
2. Been to the Finals twice in two years. So no.

papipapsmanny
02-19-2013, 01:55 AM
Nope because apparently Lebron needs a top 3 PF and a top 3 SG to get a ring

Raps08-09 Champ
02-19-2013, 01:56 AM
No. They had an incompetent coach, incompetent GM, incompetent owner and his teammates never amounted up to the talent as other championship teams.

WITZ
02-19-2013, 01:59 AM
It would've been near impossible to be able to clear at least 10-15 million.

Not trying to a douche ,but how is it near impossible mo williams contract was at 9 million that season and barons was at 13 mil. doesn't seem like it would be that hard to make up the extra 4 million to make the money match. not to mention the also dealt Moon but i doubt his contract was that much that difference. I hope got the concept of how the trade system works correct :laugh2:


Edit: and to answer the question No. It worked out best for both parties in the end the cavs picked up Kyrie Irving and lbj got his ring.

IKnowHoops
02-19-2013, 02:15 AM
Actually, if he comes back then he will have done that team the biggest favor in history. He will have left only so that they would be horrible and aquire top five talent each year, until he returns and brings a couple recruits with him to go with the talent thats already there and he can give cleveland a legendary run of champions that otherwise could not of been accomplished because as long as Bron was there, they were not going to be able to draft anyone.

Avenged
02-19-2013, 02:21 AM
If Lebron is that good, he would have won a ring in Cleveland eventually.

We'll never know now, but I think he could have. Not worth the risk though, and it doesn't matter anyways.. He got what he wanted.

gatkins11
02-19-2013, 02:27 AM
LeBron could have won a championship in Cleveland eventually even if he was the only superstar. Dirk was the lone superstar in 2011 and won a ring with a bunch of players no other team wanted at the time.

zn23
02-19-2013, 02:44 AM
LeBron could have won a championship in Cleveland eventually even if he was the only superstar. Dirk was the lone superstar in 2011 and won a ring with a bunch of players no other team wanted at the time.

Those players stepped up big in the playoffs for him. Especially Terry and Chandler.

Every time the playoffs for the Cavs , Mo Williams would pull a disappearing act.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-19-2013, 02:47 AM
LeBron could have won a championship in Cleveland eventually even if he was the only superstar. Dirk was the lone superstar in 2011 and won a ring with a bunch of players no other team wanted at the time.

The main reason the Mavs won was because Lebron acted like a ***** and disappeared. But let's not act like no other team wanted players like Terry, Chandler, Marion, Kidd, Barea and their solid role players. Hell, Terry played very well in the Finals and was the biggest difference that series and the whole playoffs. Tyson Chandler got a multi million dollar contract after his performance.

sharqstealth
02-19-2013, 02:49 AM
If Lebron goes back to Cleveland with Kyrie in there, boy that is going to be one hell of a dynamic duo, could be better than the Lebron-DWade combo, Kyrie would complement him better because of his outside shooting

DumDum
02-19-2013, 04:44 AM
nope :horse:

naps
02-19-2013, 04:58 AM
Very smart thread. The OP was made an apparent talented poster. Such thoughtful vision. LeBron is a quitter because he couldn't win playing alongside one of the finest point guards of all-time (Mo Williams). I mean how can you not win when you are surrounded by the greatest center of all time in Shaq, Ben Wallace who won as the man, and Mo? How?? Dumbass!

jerellh528
02-19-2013, 05:51 AM
yeah, his legacy will forever be tarnished for being a big fat *****

Jayrich28
02-19-2013, 09:10 AM
So do you think he will go back to cleveland?

DITKA4GOV
02-19-2013, 10:24 AM
I think if he won at Cleveland and "doing it himself" it would be levelled in the kobe vs lebron debate that Jordan brought up about 5 against 1. That one is way more significant and he's brining Cleveland the first NBA Championship also doing it for his city.

***This. He would have a statue already in the middle of the city.

Anyone who discredits what he did in CLE is crazy. I love how everyone totally discredits his team in CLE thou. One person can not lead a team to the best record and finals appearance alone. His team wasn't the greatest, but in the right situtaiton LBJ could have won there.

But it was MUCH easier to win with two future HOF'ers, so he did what he did. In my opinion, I think 3 rings in Miami = 1 ring in Cleveland as far as legacy for LBJ.

Corey
02-19-2013, 10:27 AM
He'll be back in Cleveland soon enough.

pacofunk64
02-19-2013, 10:49 AM
Ya he left when he had to. Cleveland just wasn't getting any better. Now after sucking *** for the past few years they have been able to get a few nice young pieces in there and Irving is a stud. Look for him to be back in Cleveland in a few years.

Nats_vcu-Okc35
02-19-2013, 10:59 AM
As much as it must hurt cavs fans, of course it was the right move for him. And honestly, Cleveland has gone from a team with egregiously overpaid washed up talent and Lebron, to half the rising stars team (it was actually 4 I think, with favorable rookie contracts. I'm sure little compensation for losing an all time great, but if he is gonna come back CLE is in a much better position to do so.

ManRam
02-19-2013, 11:07 AM
That wasn't wasn't going to improve the next season. Jamison, Davis and himself would have made ~45 million alone. They wouldn't have been players in free agency once again.

He did give up too early. It was the right time to go. It just wasn't getting better.

Hangtime
02-19-2013, 11:11 AM
In the end, Boston also weighed in his decision. That Boston team was superior to those Cavs teams. In terms of veteran talent and coaching. Lebron simply didn't have the players to step up match that intensity. Just didn't work the way it was constructed. Then they missed out of the big free agent class sweep stakes. Nobody would sign there. It's all about winning rings and you put yourself in the best possible position to do that if the franchise can't.

king4day
02-19-2013, 11:28 AM
I think he wanted to enjoy this part of his life. Miami is a good young person city. Good weather and living by the water. And he gets to play with his friends.

I don't think it had anything to do with the Cavs franchise.

C_Mund
02-19-2013, 12:08 PM
I think he did, but that's just me. I truly believe that he was good enough to win without having to find another prime superstar, just for his management to stop with the overpaid-and-past-their-prime role players. The way he just destroyed Boston that one year.... man.
Don't get me wrong, I'm over all my old big-3 hate. I have no doubt that he'll win more with Miami and cement a legacy. Just for ME (again, I'll throw in more caveats here because I hate putting in my opinion and have people bash it even though I'm not ignorant to reason), I think being in 1 uniform for your whole career while leading that team to a championship is worth more than chasing. Like, if Paul Pierce gets traded or leaves the Celts and comes off the bench for OKC one year (15 mins, 6 pts, 3 rbs) en route to a second ring, it wouldn't mean as much to me as staying with the Celtics and wearing the green from start to finish.

TheNumber37
02-19-2013, 12:09 PM
Never got him a legit 2 option in the 7 years he was there so no.

by legit second option, you mean like d wade.
He could have stayed in Cleveland and easily gotten bosh to join him, but he didn't...

xfyre
02-19-2013, 12:14 PM
as long as dan gilbert is there, lebron will not be

justinnum1
02-19-2013, 12:19 PM
He'll be back in Cleveland soon enough.

Yep, that's where he spends his summers.

Spiggity_ace
02-19-2013, 12:38 PM
i guess its the owner/gm's fault

they couldnt ever get lebron a legit 2nd option, i think if they got M redd instead of hughes it would have helped but i dunno if that would put them over the edge, i used to marvel how this guy could turn a team around signlehandedly, LOL at the players that were on that team.

maybe the varejao of the early part of this season paired with a prime M redd and lebron woulda won a ring in 07, Lebron was such a team carrier.

Spiggity_ace
02-19-2013, 12:39 PM
He'll be back in Cleveland soon enough.

glad to see im not the only one who has this feeling

kyrie/lebron = :drool:

NoahH
02-19-2013, 12:57 PM
Never got him a legit 2 option in the 7 years he was there so no.

Mo Williams...




















:laugh2:

pd1dish
02-19-2013, 01:18 PM
he wasnt going to win a championship in Cleveland. when he was there, Boston gave them problems in the east and LA was their problem out west.

now, he would have to deal with the Bulls, Pacers, Knicks, and Nets and then out west he'd have to get through probably either OKC or LAC in the finals. i cant see a Cleveland team led by Lebron, and Lebron only, getting through the east and beating either one of those west teams. when Lebron was with Cleveland, the east was relatively easy to get through with the exception of Boston.

however, if he chose to go there come 2014 and he has Kyrie on his side, then this is a whole different discussion.

gwrighter
02-19-2013, 01:19 PM
Hell no.

Eagles710
02-19-2013, 01:25 PM
GREAT QUESTION!!!!!

Play with D-wade and bosh in miami?
Or Did he leave to soon? Should have stood with Big Z and Mo williams?

im going to think about this and get back to you #Your-A-Moron

justinnum1
02-19-2013, 02:19 PM
GREAT QUESTION!!!!!

Play with D-wade and bosh in miami?
Or Did he leave to soon? Should have stood with Big Z and Mo williams?

im going to think about this and get back to you #Your-A-Moron

lmao

LA4life24/8
02-19-2013, 03:08 PM
i dont think he gave up on them too early, maybe gave up on himself too early, but then again on those cleveland teams he literally did everything 100% if he had an off night they were done, at least in miami he only has to do about 75% of the work load, and if he has an off night there is still a chance wade or bosh picks up the slack

wouldnt go as far as to say hed eventually have won a championship there, but playing like he is this year, straight dominating fools down low and defensively he prolly would wind up with 1 or 2 rings when it was all said and done

LA4life24/8
02-19-2013, 03:10 PM
i do really think bron goes back to cleveland though, i think he wants to try and win at least one ship there, to look like the good guy in the end, and erase "the decision" from his career and between kyrie and lebron i think they could definitely do it, if they keep some solid pieces around them, id see them as a better version of durant/westbrook

Giraffes Rule
02-19-2013, 03:12 PM
I think if he won at Cleveland and "doing it himself" it would be levelled in the kobe vs lebron debate that Jordan brought up about 5 against 1. That one is way more significant and he's brining Cleveland the first NBA Championship also doing it for his city.

Because Kobe and Jordan sure won championships all by themselves. Never had hall of fame players or an all time great coach next to them ever, right you guys?

MickeyMgl
02-19-2013, 04:01 PM
Yes.



Compared to kg was it really that bad in cleveland for him to leave when he did?

No.



Also seeing him now and him finally reaching his potential, posting up, better shooting, dominating at both ends, and mentally tougher. Could he have reached this stage in cleveland?

Yes.

Jayrich28
02-19-2013, 05:18 PM
I do think boston forming their big three influenced his decision as well .

Derick713
02-19-2013, 05:46 PM
LeBron James made the right decision. The Cavaliers never had the necessary talent to help LeBron match up with teams like the Celtics, Spurs, Thunder, Magic, and Lakers. LeBron needed Wade and Bosh to help him take down the Celtics. Bosh and Wade matched up with Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen. The Cavaliers never got a big free agent or made a great draft pick while James was there.

The Cavaliers will be in better position to win once LeBron becomes a free agent in 2014. The Cavaliers finally have a superstar in Kyrie Irving. They have good young building blocks in Tristan Thompson, Tyler Zeller, and Dion Waiters. The Cavs will also be able to add a lottery talent this year and perhaps next year. If the Cavs can somehow land Ben McLemore then they've got the best chance to land LeBron in 2014.

Farcelona
02-19-2013, 05:49 PM
Cleveland has 16 wins. They wont even sniff the playoffs in the next 2 years. Lebron will have 3 rings by then.

kobe4thewinbang
02-19-2013, 06:10 PM
Compared to kg was it really that bad in cleveland for him to leave when he did?Cleveland was trying every half-assed solution they could to win a title. Shaq, Mo Williams, Larry Hughes, Wally Szczerbiak, Ben Wallace, Antawn Jamison, all of which underperformed and had excessive salaries. LeBron was tired of being the only one trying to win. When he left, I wasn't surprised because it wasn't going to change. Cleveland would've brought in Amar'e, Iverson, or someone else that had fallen from grace. It's not that easy to build a championship caliber team. Basically, Cleveland's front office was whacked.


Also seeing him now and him finally reaching his potential, posting up, better shooting, dominating at both ends, and mentally tougher. Could he have reached this stage in cleveland?When they got to the Finals, it was because of LeBron crushing the Pistons. If he had improved his basketball IQ sooner, he'd still be the only player contributing. Even if he had 60 points, Cleveland would still lose without other players helping him.

SteBO
02-19-2013, 06:10 PM
No. Cleveland's front office was as inept as it could get when trying to get LeBron help. He clearly made the right choice here, and there's really no debating that.

Chances are LeBron stays in Miami, where he'd likely be in a better position to win, but I'll admit that CLE has a rising star in Irving and they've accumulated enough picks where if they could hit on a couple, they'd be in business for possible title contention. I like Waiters. Tristan Thompson and Tyler Zeller are nice players, but nothing really too special from what I've watched of them (and I've watched a good amount of Cavs games). We'll see....I wouldn't put it past 'Bron to rejoin the Cavs, nor would I blame him. I wouldn't even be THAT disappointed. I'm just happy that I've been given the opportunity to watch this guy play night in and night out.

Jayrich28
02-19-2013, 06:22 PM
Alot of ppl seem to think lbj will return to cavs eventually.

kobe4thewinbang
02-19-2013, 06:22 PM
No. Cleveland's front office was as inept as it could get when trying to get LeBron help. He clearly made the right choice here, and there's really no debating that.

Chances are LeBron stays in Miami, where he'd likely be in a better position to win, but I'll admit that CLE has a rising star in Irving and they've accumulated enough picks where if they could hit on a couple, they'd be in business for possible title contention. I like Waiters. Tristan Thompson and Tyler Zeller are nice players, but nothing really too special from what I've watched of them (and I've watched a good amount of Cavs games). We'll see....I wouldn't put it past 'Bron to rejoin the Cavs, nor would I blame him. I wouldn't even be disappointed. I'm just happy that I've been given the opportunity to watch this guy play night in and night out.It'd be nice to see Cleveland get legit for once and put a brain in their head. Then Cleveland might make the playoffs and face Miami. The media would love that. However, I think it's more likely that poor Kyrie looks back on LeBron's woe and hightails it in 2014. It's not about dissing Cleveland. Stars don't stay with bad teams, and if Cleveland can't right the ship by 2014, they don't deserve Irving.

PurpleJesus
02-19-2013, 06:23 PM
I think the media had a big part to do with his mental toughness, and dont think the media would have looked at him so negatively had he not left Cleveland

SteBO
02-19-2013, 06:55 PM
I think the media had a big part to do with his mental toughness, and dont think the media would have looked at him so negatively had he not left Cleveland
There's a lot of truth to this, but it's also a huge reason why stars simply don't stay with their original teams in todays NBA. The pressure they put on these guys to win titles has gotten kinda absurd in recent years. Plus, the way the media looked at him the minute he left Cleveland for Miami is no different than what it would've been had he not won any titles at the age of 31 w/ bad knees while staying with CLE when you consider the raucus hype he came into the league with. There was no reason for him to play w/ fire like that. Again, they had no cap flexibility and the best guy they could put next to him was Mo Williams.

SteBO
02-19-2013, 07:00 PM
It'd be nice to see Cleveland get legit for once and put a brain in their head. Then Cleveland might make the playoffs and face Miami. The media would love that. However, I think it's more likely that poor Kyrie looks back on LeBron's woe and hightails it in 2014. It's not about dissing Cleveland. Stars don't stay with bad teams, and if Cleveland can't right the ship by 2014, they don't deserve Irving.
Well, Dan Gilbert has another chance here. Kyrie is an absolute "STUD", and with the right moves Cleveland can become legitamite once again. I'll say this.....OKC and you can even argue the Memphis Grizzlies managed to do well for themselves considering the disadvantage they have when it comes to attracting free agents. CLE can pull it off with proper management and some foresight.

nitram58
02-19-2013, 07:31 PM
Because Kobe and Jordan sure won championships all by themselves. Never had hall of fame players or an all time great coach next to them ever, right you guys?

ok quick,what college did Pippen go to? who was he traded for on draft day?what was Phil Jacksons coaching resume before becoming Bulls head coach? Face it,Jordan helped Pippen become the player he became.Jordan got the players to believe in the team.Don't make it sound like Jordan came to Chicago surrounded by a bunch of superstars.He lead the team.He was the leader.

alexander_37
02-19-2013, 08:10 PM
Nah, they could still get him. Take the unprotected pick and Baron Davis. And than you can draft Kyrie.

Lmfao, that wouldn't even be close to enough.

jamiebbk
02-19-2013, 08:31 PM
There's a lot of truth to this, but it's also a huge reason why stars simply don't stay with their original teams in todays NBA. The pressure they put on these guys to win titles has gotten kinda absurd in recent years. Plus, the way the media looked at him the minute he left Cleveland for Miami is no different than what it would've been had he not won any titles at the age of 31 w/ bad knees while staying with CLE when you consider the raucus hype he came into the league with. There was no reason for him to play w/ fire like that. Again, they had no cap flexibility and the best guy they could put next to him was Mo Williams.

Cavs failed him but to be honest Lebron has never been the ultimate competitor. Even in some of the Cavs games, you saw him give up which i don't think Jordan, and even Kobe would have done.

I always find it absurd when people say Lebron will win 4+ championships as he strikes me as the kinda of person who once he wins 2, he will lose the drive to win more, and will be more chilled.

Guppyfighter
02-19-2013, 08:59 PM
ok quick,what college did Pippen go to? who was he traded for on draft day?what was Phil Jacksons coaching resume before becoming Bulls head coach? Face it,Jordan helped Pippen become the player he became.Jordan got the players to believe in the team.Don't make it sound like Jordan came to Chicago surrounded by a bunch of superstars.He lead the team.He was the leader.

Pippen was already really good before Chicago.

Arch Stanton
02-20-2013, 01:24 AM
I think it was fine he left after 7 years.

Guppyfighter
02-20-2013, 04:15 AM
Lmfao, that wouldn't even be close to enough.

Uh, that's what it took to get him. They won the lotto with that pick.