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View Full Version : The NBA: 10 years ago and now.



DreamShaker
02-18-2013, 04:56 PM
Pretty simple: how has the nba changed, if at all, in the past 10 years? I watched the 2003 All-Star game and this thought came to mind. This was Jordan's last season/all-star game and the season before that Lebron/Bosh/Wade/Melo draft class came in. Some of the All-Stars were:

Iverson
Steve Francis
Marbury
Antoine Walker
Shaq
Yao
Gary Payton
Jermaine O'neal
Brad Miller
T-Mac
Vince Carter
Jamal Mashburn
Shawn Marion
Peja
Dirk

The only guys who were still in the game yesterday were: Kobe, Duncan, and KG. Safe to say the league has much different stars at this point. But what has changed?

DreamShaker
02-18-2013, 04:59 PM
Also some funny things: Yao, Shaq, Duncan, and KG all played together at the same time. And Isiah Thomas was MJ's coach for this game.

Jeffy25
02-18-2013, 08:59 PM
I love the NBA, or rather.....I love basketball.


But I hate how much the NBA has become a 'showmanship' sport in some aspects. The all-star weekend is hideous.

I can't stand the showmanship aspect of the game. I love basketball, but it's difficult to discuss the game or get into a topic in the NBA forum where everything is about 'flash' and respect. I guess I grew up with a different game.

I started to stop paying attention about 10 years ago from the game. I grew up with Bird, Pippen, Jordan, Magic etc. I watched Payton, Shaq etc as well quite a bit. But after this all star class, I started to lose interest because of the way the game evolved. I still like basketball, and college basketball. I just don't understand why it's so much more about hype and not about..........the sport itself.

Seems half the discussions on PSD are about Kobe and Lebron and respect. And I don't understand. You don't see this sort of thing in other sports and it turns me off on a sport that I do enjoy. I just can't enjoy discussing with other people.

I'd rather go back 10 years ago and watch this all-star game then to see the 2013 all star game, and I'd rather go back 20 years to see the 1993 all star game the most.

RLundi
02-18-2013, 09:09 PM
I love the NBA, or rather.....I love basketball.


But I hate how much the NBA has become a 'showmanship' sport in some aspects. The all-star weekend is hideous.

I can't stand the showmanship aspect of the game. I love basketball, but it's difficult to discuss the game or get into a topic in the NBA forum where everything is about 'flash' and respect. I guess I grew up with a different game.

I started to stop paying attention about 10 years ago from the game. I grew up with Bird, Pippen, Jordan, Magic etc. I watched Payton, Shaq etc as well quite a bit. But after this all star class, I started to lose interest because of the way the game evolved. I still like basketball, and college basketball. I just don't understand why it's so much more about hype and not about..........the sport itself.

Seems half the discussions on PSD are about Kobe and Lebron and respect. And I don't understand. You don't see this sort of thing in other sports and it turns me off on a sport that I do enjoy. I just can't enjoy discussing with other people.

I'd rather go back 10 years ago and watch this all-star game then to see the 2013 all star game, and I'd rather go back 20 years to see the 1993 all star game the most.

I get what you mean. At the same time, we live in a different era. Facebook, Twitter, blogs, forums, etc dominate and are everywhere now. Whereas in the past, you didn't have to hear someone's idiotic opinion because you only discussed sports with your friends or family, now forums, blogs, etc make it so you have access to EVERYONE'S opinion, and the majority of those are going to be immature, short-sighted, vain and just plain ridiculous. Unfortunate but true.

And naturally, ESPN and other sport-related entertainment feels the need to cater to and keep up with the idiots that are now prevalent. It's a vicious cycle brought upon by the advanced information age that we are now accustomed to living in. The only difference (to me anyway) is it seems more kids like the NBA than MLB or NFL, and the majority of those ridiculous, vain people are just that: kids.

Just my hypothesis though. I love the NBA, and as I try to weed out the fools on this site, I think the game in itself has certainly evolved for the better. MJ, Bird, Magic and company built this league. And Kobe, LeBron, Durant and Melo are continuing it. I have no qualms with the sport itself.

mightybosstone
02-18-2013, 09:13 PM
This was an interesting idea for a thread, and it sucks that it got buried. Here are a few observations:

1. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the NBA is more talented today than it was 10 years ago. A few of the guys on that team more than likely don't sniff an All-Star game in today's NBA, mainly Walker, Mashburn and Miller.

2. The quality of today's point guards really stands out by comparison to that era. Payton is probably the best overall PG on that list and he was a shell of himself at that point in his career.

3. The quality of the centers 10 years ago isn't significantly better than the quality of today's era. Outside of Shaq and Yao, the best true center on that list is Brad freakin' Miller. Clearly the position had already died out a bit by that time.

Jeffy25
02-18-2013, 10:20 PM
I get what you mean. At the same time, we live in a different era. Facebook, Twitter, blogs, forums, etc dominate and are everywhere now. Whereas in the past, you didn't have to hear someone's idiotic opinion because you only discussed sports with your friends or family, now forums, blogs, etc make it so you have access to EVERYONE'S opinion, and the majority of those are going to be immature, short-sighted, vain and just plain ridiculous. Unfortunate but true.

And naturally, ESPN and other sport-related entertainment feels the need to cater to and keep up with the idiots that are now prevalent. It's a vicious cycle brought upon by the advanced information age that we are now accustomed to living in. The only difference (to me anyway) is it seems more kids like the NBA than MLB or NFL, and the majority of those ridiculous, vain people are just that: kids.

Just my hypothesis though. I love the NBA, and as I try to weed out the fools on this site, I think the game in itself has certainly evolved for the better. MJ, Bird, Magic and company built this league. And Kobe, LeBron, Durant and Melo are continuing it. I have no qualms with the sport itself.

I guess.

I just don't see MLB players tweets on SportsCenter, and the all-star game isn't about Mike Trout's flash and discussions aren't if Clayton Kershaw is getting enough respect or not.

Sort of just turns me off on all of it.


Maybe it's because I'm 29. But I loved watching MJ battle with Bird and Johnson. It wasn't about their style or anything like that. It was about the execution of their play. Same with this all-star class being discussed in this thread.

I'm not trying to be negative. Just what I've noticed, and why I have a hard time coming into this section because it isn't a discussion about anything that matters. Who cares about style. Why would anyone care about style, flash, respect in the game or who is dating who etc? I guess I just don't understand.

And I feel like this class 10 years wasn't this bad either. Remember Shaq and Penny? That was awesome!



But seriously.

Who the hell cares about
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?803755-Video-Lil-Wayne-says-Heat-got-him-banned-from-all-NBA-games-slept-with-Bosh-s-wife

How can anyone care about that?

Jeffy25
02-18-2013, 10:22 PM
This was an interesting idea for a thread, and it sucks that it got buried. Here are a few observations:

1. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the NBA is more talented today than it was 10 years ago. A few of the guys on that team more than likely don't sniff an All-Star game in today's NBA, mainly Walker, Mashburn and Miller.

2. The quality of today's point guards really stands out by comparison to that era. Payton is probably the best overall PG on that list and he was a shell of himself at that point in his career.

3. The quality of the centers 10 years ago isn't significantly better than the quality of today's era. Outside of Shaq and Yao, the best true center on that list is Brad freakin' Miller. Clearly the position had already died out a bit by that time.

Agreed on all three points.

valade16
02-19-2013, 12:15 AM
I think it's wierd people don't like the NBA because of the showmanship. Talking about respect? Go back. You think Jordan didn't command respect? He wasn't a showman? Go back further. Bird is considered one of the biggest trash talkers in the game. He asked people who was coming in 2nd during the 3pt shootout. How is that not the same as they do today? Heck, the Lakers of the 80s were called the "showtime" Lakers.

Thinking guys like Bird, MJ, or Magic weren't like players of today is funny. Heck, look at the guys in the 2003 All-Star game: Steve Francis, Allen Iverson, Marbury, Carter. You're telling me they were not about showmanship?

Good stuff

Jeffy25
02-19-2013, 01:54 AM
I think it's wierd people don't like the NBA because of the showmanship. Talking about respect? Go back. You think Jordan didn't command respect? He wasn't a showman? Go back further. Bird is considered one of the biggest trash talkers in the game. He asked people who was coming in 2nd during the 3pt shootout. How is that not the same as they do today? Heck, the Lakers of the 80s were called the "showtime" Lakers.

Thinking guys like Bird, MJ, or Magic weren't like players of today is funny. Heck, look at the guys in the 2003 All-Star game: Steve Francis, Allen Iverson, Marbury, Carter. You're telling me they were not about showmanship?

Good stuff

I'm not talking about the players. I'm talking about how it's all the fans care about. Not what the players did and how they were driven.

mightybosstone
02-19-2013, 02:38 AM
I just don't see MLB players tweets on SportsCenter, and the all-star game isn't about Mike Trout's flash and discussions aren't if Clayton Kershaw is getting enough respect or not. Sort of just turns me off on all of it.
While this is true to some extent, you're talking about two completely different sports. A single star basketball player has far more impact on his team's success than a star baseball player, which naturally makes the athletes more visible and puts them more in the media spotlight than in other sports. The same case can be made for quarterbacks in the NFL. But that doesn't take away from either sport, IMO.


Maybe it's because I'm 29. But I loved watching MJ battle with Bird and Johnson. It wasn't about their style or anything like that. It was about the execution of their play. Same with this all-star class being discussed in this thread.
Yeah, I'm having a hard time swallowing this one, dude. I'm 25, so I can easily remember MJ and how much I loathed him whenever he played my Rockets during the regular season. But you can't tell me that guy didn't have a certain style to his game that made him mesmerizing to watch. The same could easily have been said for guys who came before him like Dr. J and Magic.

And as far as watching guys battle it out and enjoying the execution of play, I love this game as much today as I did in 1994 when I started watching it. I'm a Rockets fan, but if I see that the Thunder and Heat are playing on a given night, you can bet that I'll be clearing my schedule to park myself in front of the television. And my absolute favorite sports season of the year is March-May. Sure, we get March Madness, the Masters, the start of baseball season and the NFL draft, but my absolute favorite postseason experience is still the NBA playoffs. No professional sport provides more drama to its postseason than the NBA.


I'm not trying to be negative. Just what I've noticed, and why I have a hard time coming into this section because it isn't a discussion about anything that matters. Who cares about style. Why would anyone care about style, flash, respect in the game or who is dating who etc? I guess I just don't understand.
But what you're talking about has almost nothing to do with the game and everything to do with the over-saturation of celebrities in the media. And it's no different than other sports. Look how much ridiculous crap comes up every year in the two weeks between the conference championships and the Super Bowl. Or how about all the drama every single time a PED rumor comes up in baseball?

The NBA gets it worse than most, but it's essentially the same for all professional sports.


But seriously.

Who the hell cares about
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?803755-Video-Lil-Wayne-says-Heat-got-him-banned-from-all-NBA-games-slept-with-Bosh-s-wife

How can anyone care about that?
C'mon dude... You can't rip on the NBA because of what the barely intelligible masses of the general NBA forum chose to discuss. If I listened to the general NBA forum, I would believe that Kobe was the GOAT, Lebron was essentially Adolf Hitler and the New York Knicks are contenders every single year.

Jeffy25
02-19-2013, 03:16 AM
While this is true to some extent, you're talking about two completely different sports. A single star basketball player has far more impact on his team's success than a star baseball player, which naturally makes the athletes more visible and puts them more in the media spotlight than in other sports. The same case can be made for quarterbacks in the NFL. But that doesn't take away from either sport, IMO.


Yeah, I'm having a hard time swallowing this one, dude. I'm 25, so I can easily remember MJ and how much I loathed him whenever he played my Rockets during the regular season. But you can't tell me that guy didn't have a certain style to his game that made him mesmerizing to watch. The same could easily have been said for guys who came before him like Dr. J and Magic.

And as far as watching guys battle it out and enjoying the execution of play, I love this game as much today as I did in 1994 when I started watching it. I'm a Rockets fan, but if I see that the Thunder and Heat are playing on a given night, you can bet that I'll be clearing my schedule to park myself in front of the television. And my absolute favorite sports season of the year is March-May. Sure, we get March Madness, the Masters, the start of baseball season and the NFL draft, but my absolute favorite postseason experience is still the NBA playoffs. No professional sport provides more drama to its postseason than the NBA.


But what you're talking about has almost nothing to do with the game and everything to do with the over-saturation of celebrities in the media. And it's no different than other sports. Look how much ridiculous crap comes up every year in the two weeks between the conference championships and the Super Bowl. Or how about all the drama every single time a PED rumor comes up in baseball?

The NBA gets it worse than most, but it's essentially the same for all professional sports.


C'mon dude... You can't rip on the NBA because of what the barely intelligible masses of the general NBA forum chose to discuss. If I listened to the general NBA forum, I would believe that Kobe was the GOAT, Lebron was essentially Adolf Hitler and the New York Knicks are contenders every single year.

I suppose so long as it isn't everyone, then I can relate. I just don't see much evidence from NBA fans that actually want to talk about....well basketball. They seem to idolize the celebrity side of the sport, rather than the aspects of the game.

Maybe I'm way off. It's also partially because I live in Southeast Missouri, and the closest NBA team is the Grizzles, and I don't personally know anyone that cares about them. This is baseball country here, so I don't know any other NBA fans. Maybe there are more good NBA fans than I realize, just seems like every time I pop my head into this forum it's a lot of crap like that above link. I will never understand how anyone can care about stuff like that, even a little. Even jokingly.

That said, the NBA is fun, and I have gravitated back to it in recent years, but only because it's a joy to watch and partially because it's baseballs off-season and there isn't as much to discuss.

Thanks for replying.

jerellh528
02-19-2013, 03:40 AM
the nba sucks compared to early 2000s. I blame small ball

Bruno
02-19-2013, 05:43 AM
wow.

even five years ago in 2008. half those 2008 all-stars weren't on the 2013 roster.

jerellh528
02-19-2013, 05:55 AM
10 years ago was much more fun, the best swingmen played then

mightybosstone
02-19-2013, 11:12 AM
the nba sucks compared to early 2000s. I blame small ball
How so? I much prefer today's NBA, when there are more competitive teams and there isn't a single franchise winning every championship. And today's NBA is far more talented than 10 years ago, when most of the talent from the 90s was on the verge of retirement.


10 years ago was much more fun, the best swingmen played then
Dude, how can you say that when we're in an era of two monsters like Lebron and Durant and beasts like Kobe, Harden, Melo and Wade? The SG position wasn't what it was 10 years ago, but there are more elite SFs in the league today than there have ever been at any point in the league. And a lot of guys who might have been SGs 10-20 years ago are PGs in today's NBA, because of how athletic and versatile today's players are.

ewing
02-19-2013, 02:31 PM
I love the NBA, or rather.....I love basketball.


But I hate how much the NBA has become a 'showmanship' sport in some aspects. The all-star weekend is hideous.

I can't stand the showmanship aspect of the game. I love basketball, but it's difficult to discuss the game or get into a topic in the NBA forum where everything is about 'flash' and respect. I guess I grew up with a different game.

I started to stop paying attention about 10 years ago from the game. I grew up with Bird, Pippen, Jordan, Magic etc. I watched Payton, Shaq etc as well quite a bit. But after this all star class, I started to lose interest because of the way the game evolved. I still like basketball, and college basketball. I just don't understand why it's so much more about hype and not about..........the sport itself.

Seems half the discussions on PSD are about Kobe and Lebron and respect. And I don't understand. You don't see this sort of thing in other sports and it turns me off on a sport that I do enjoy. I just can't enjoy discussing with other people.

I'd rather go back 10 years ago and watch this all-star game then to see the 2013 all star game, and I'd rather go back 20 years to see the 1993 all star game the most.


I agree with you but i think 10 years ago was when the NBA was at its lowest point I've seen as a fan. The game is definitely in a better place now then it was in 2003

ewing
02-19-2013, 02:37 PM
The thing i hate most about the early 2000s in the NBA was everyone's need to give themselves awful nicknames. Everyone tried to copy AI, I'm "the question mark", call me "starberry", I'm "the truth". Just terrible stuff

Tony_Starks
02-19-2013, 03:25 PM
The game was great then, it's great now. The biggest difference is the social media aspect of how it's covered. Writers focus 90% of their attention on rumors, pure speculation, tmz style off court stuff, and free agency fantasies that will never happen. And THAT sucks.

Supreme LA
02-19-2013, 05:54 PM
The rules have changed and the league has taken away the dominance of the big man in the last decade. Today you have zone defenses loading up on post players. What people forget as that this game was built around the big man and those same people don't realize the affects it will have on the future of the game. The children of today and tomorrow emulate what they see and develop as they practice. If no big men are in the post anymore, then it will just be a huge part of the game that will be phased out, like it already as been.

The game was predicated on the pass to the post before and now it's all dribble penetration and corner 3's. I don't care too much for today's brand of NBA basketball because I think we're missing so much of the game that I grew up with.

The most troubling thing to me is how much freedom perimeter players have today compared to how much contact that is allowed in the paint in the post. You can't graze a guard on the perimeter today but you can push in the back, grab, hold, lock eachother's arms, pull in the post and you'll rarely be called for it.

The only PG's I truly believe to be great today are only CP3 and Derrick Rose. I doubt the rest could be great in 80's or 90's. The I'm one of those people who believes the PG's of today aren't any greater than the PG's of the past. They are just a product of what the NBA has chosen to highlight for today's game. I know the topic is about what has changed since 2003 but I think what we're watching now is the result of what i consider to be a transition period at that time. Shaq was the most dominant force up until that year and I believe the rules for zone defense were put in place because of him during that time and we're now seeing the results of it.

hidalgo
02-19-2013, 08:14 PM
i wish they'd have never changed the rules, & took out handchecking, etc. they should put the old rules back in, & take out the zone. eras can be more fairly judged under the same rules

NYKalltheway
02-20-2013, 01:22 AM
the NBA died 15 years ago.

Patman
02-20-2013, 11:10 AM
The rules have changed and the league has taken away the dominance of the big man in the last decade. Today you have zone defenses loading up on post players. What people forget as that this game was built around the big man and those same people don't realize the affects it will have on the future of the game. The children of today and tomorrow emulate what they see and develop as they practice. If no big men are in the post anymore, then it will just be a huge part of the game that will be phased out, like it already as been.

The game was predicated on the pass to the post before and now it's all dribble penetration and corner 3's. I don't care too much for today's brand of NBA basketball because I think we're missing so much of the game that I grew up with.

The most troubling thing to me is how much freedom perimeter players have today compared to how much contact that is allowed in the paint in the post. You can't graze a guard on the perimeter today but you can push in the back, grab, hold, lock eachother's arms, pull in the post and you'll rarely be called for it.

The only PG's I truly believe to be great today are only CP3 and Derrick Rose. I doubt the rest could be great in 80's or 90's. The I'm one of those people who believes the PG's of today aren't any greater than the PG's of the past. They are just a product of what the NBA has chosen to highlight for today's game. I know the topic is about what has changed since 2003 but I think what we're watching now is the result of what i consider to be a transition period at that time. Shaq was the most dominant force up until that year and I believe the rules for zone defense were put in place because of him during that time and we're now seeing the results of it.

I can make the same argument about the bigs in the 80's and 90's they were only that impressive because the rules allowed them to, most of them would never ever post the numbers they posted back then.

I find the motion today, way more interesting then Wing and Post Iso plays that were used way more in the past. I think todays league or the league over the past few years has finally fully adapted to the rule changes of the 2000's.

Supreme LA
02-20-2013, 03:47 PM
I can make the same argument about the bigs in the 80's and 90's they were only that impressive because the rules allowed them to, most of them would never ever post the numbers they posted back then.

I find the motion today, way more interesting then Wing and Post Iso plays that were used way more in the past. I think todays league or the league over the past few years has finally fully adapted to the rule changes of the 2000's.

Well I guess it comes down to preference. I personally prefer the game of the past with more post-play and an inside out game.

I was just simply saying that the rules that have been implemented over the last decade will have lingering effects for years to come as far as quality big men. I don't know about you but I'd much rather watch a big man skilled in the post rather than picking and popping or picking and rolling every play.

The big man is dead now and I don't like it.

Fired-Up
02-20-2013, 04:15 PM
Agreed on all three points.

Prime Tim Duncan tho........ kinda really stands out. ya know, only the best ever at his position in his absolute prime.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
02-20-2013, 04:20 PM
This was an interesting idea for a thread, and it sucks that it got buried. Here are a few observations:

1. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the NBA is more talented today than it was 10 years ago. A few of the guys on that team more than likely don't sniff an All-Star game in today's NBA, mainly Walker, Mashburn and Miller.

2. The quality of today's point guards really stands out by comparison to that era. Payton is probably the best overall PG on that list and he was a shell of himself at that point in his career.

3. The quality of the centers 10 years ago isn't significantly better than the quality of today's era. Outside of Shaq and Yao, the best true center on that list is Brad freakin' Miller. Clearly the position had already died out a bit by that time.

Definitely agree with this. I do believe the talent in the NBA was at it's lowest in decades the first 5 years or so after Jordan's Bulls/the lockout. Look at the 2002 Celtics for example. No way that team makes it to the ECF in the NBA today.

mightybosstone
02-20-2013, 04:20 PM
Well I guess it comes down to preference. I personally prefer the game of the past with more post-play and an inside out game.

I was just simply saying that the rules that have been implemented over the last decade will have lingering effects for years to come as far as quality big men. I don't know about you but I'd much rather watch a big man skilled in the post rather than picking and popping or picking and rolling every play.

The big man is dead now and I don't like it.

A lot of it depends on the skill of the players. If we had the talent of 90s centers in today's game, I'm sure there would be far more post play. If we threw in today's point guards into the 90s, there would be more dribble penetration. Zone defenses have had some effect on that, but you can't tell me there are tons of big men playing the game today who are as talented as the centers of that era.

But I love watching the game as much today as I did 15 years ago. Of course there's going to be some change, but that's natural in all sports. Who knows how the league will change 10 and 20 years from now, but it won't change the sport enough to make it significantly less interesting to me.