PDA

View Full Version : Why Duncan isn't regarded as the best Big in the League



Fired-Up
02-17-2013, 02:28 PM
Tim Duncan has been playing Center for the last handful of years. Previously he was a power forward. Make no mistake though he's a big man and always has been. He posts up, defends the rim and doesn't play on the perimeter.

He's just a big man.

He's the best big man in the league right now and has been for the last 10+ years. Yet whenever the discussion in the media comes up about the best big man in the game he's not even mentioned. It's as if he's retired.

He's 36 years old and the best big man in the league. That is a travesty.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2013, 02:30 PM
He has a decent case this year, but the previous few years, no way. Injuries, limited minutes, and his play was down. He is playing great this season however, and with some bigs like Love and Dirk being hurt so much, and Dwight not near 100%, Gasol regressing and being injured, the competition for bigs got a little weaker.

SLY WILLIAMS
02-17-2013, 02:31 PM
He has slowed down a lot in regards to defense but he is still a very good player because of his fundamentals. A younger Duncan would dominate this Duncan in my opinion but he is still playing at a very high level. He is a smart player that is able to overcome the steps that he has lost.

Fired-Up
02-17-2013, 02:35 PM
He has slowed down a lot in regards to defense but he is still a very good player because of his fundamentals. A younger Duncan would dominate this Duncan in my opinion but he is still playing at a very high level. He is a smart player that is able to overcome the steps that he has lost.

I agree young Duncan is miles better, but the quality of bigs right now is so low that he deserves mention. Personally I think he is the best big man.

When you think about it he blows away Love. His game doesn't translate to victories. Bynum could never match him. Howard was solid the last 3-4 years, but he had no offensive game. If you can't feed him the ball and let him iso 1 on 1 in the 4th quarter then I take issue with that.
As for his defense. He is at worst a top 3 defending big man in the league.

Sactown
02-17-2013, 02:36 PM
Duncan plays for the Spurs, and Spurs players don't get the hype that other players get because they aren't as flashy, also a big part of it is Duncan has only played 28 minutes, 28 minutes, 29 minutes per game the last 3 seasons when other bigs play up to the high 30's. Also Pop pulls his older players for a lot of games throughout the season.

Fired-Up
02-17-2013, 02:38 PM
Duncan plays for the Spurs, and Spurs players don't get the hype that other players get because they aren't as flashy, also a big part of it is Duncan has only played 28 minutes, 28 minutes, 29 minutes per game the last 3 seasons when other bigs play up to the high 30's. Also Pop pulls his older players for a lot of games throughout the season.

Lack of minutes is pretty much why his numbers aren't what they used to be. Sure his game has seen regression, but while he's on the court he isn't a shell of his former self.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2013, 02:39 PM
I agree young Duncan is miles better, but the quality of bigs right now is so low that he deserves mention. Personally I think he is the best big man.

When you think about it he blows away Love. His game doesn't translate to victories. Bynum could never match him. Howard was solid the last 3-4 years, but he had no offensive game. If you can't feed him the ball and let him iso 1 on 1 in the 4th quarter then I take issue with that.
As for his defense. He is at worst a top 3 defending big man in the league.

I bet Love wishes he walked into a contender, and had Buford as a GM, with D-Rob, Manu, Parker, Pops, and the rest of the crew to play with...

Sactown
02-17-2013, 02:40 PM
Lack of minutes is pretty much why his numbers aren't what they used to be. Sure his game has seen regression, but while he's on the court he isn't a shell of his former self.

If he played 35 minutes a game, by game 25 he would be though...

Fired-Up
02-17-2013, 02:40 PM
I bet Love wishes he walked into a contender, and had Buford as a GM, with D-Rob, Manu, Parker, Pops, and the rest of the crew to play with...

Duncan won Finals MVP with Stephen Jackson as his 2nd best player. I take issue with guys being on teams that win like 20 games a year.

SLY WILLIAMS
02-17-2013, 02:41 PM
I agree young Duncan is miles better, but the quality of bigs right now is so low that he deserves mention. Personally I think he is the best big man.

When you think about it he blows away Love. His game doesn't translate to victories. Bynum could never match him. Howard was solid the last 3-4 years, but he had no offensive game. If you can't feed him the ball and let him iso 1 on 1 in the 4th quarter then I take issue with that.
As for his defense. He is at worst a top 3 defending big man in the league.

I agree to a point but that is more a reflection of how much the other bigs have fallen in recent years. Duncan is playing very well. He is smart and confident. I can not say he is a top 3 defender because of how much he has slowed down but he is still a good 1 on 1 post defender. Faster more athletic guys can now run by him though if given some room. That is not a knock on Duncan. Age catches up to everyone sooner or later. The great players like Duncan adjust their games. I saw Duncan in a Porsche dealership back in 2001.

Sactown
02-17-2013, 02:42 PM
Duncan won Finals MVP with Stephen Jackson as his 2nd best player. I take issue with guys being on teams that win like 20 games a year.

If you're trying to argue that the greatest PF ever is better than Love, than yes you win... But if you're going to say the current Tim Duncan is better than Kevin Love, than you're going to need more than what Tim did in his prime to win that one.

Fired-Up
02-17-2013, 02:45 PM
If you're trying to argue that the greatest PF ever is better than Love, than yes you win... But if you're going to say the current Tim Duncan is better than Kevin Love, than you're going to need more than what Tim did in his prime to win that one.

Tim Duncan this year has the best defensive rating in the league. Now I'm not one for stats, but his defense is fantastic right now. Plus, his offensive game is still there. Can Duncan iso and get a bucket. Yes. His game is flawless. Declining athleticism is affecting his dominance, but his game right now is still fundamentally perfect.

DallasTrilla23
02-17-2013, 02:47 PM
Duncan won Finals MVP with Stephen Jackson as his 2nd best player. I take issue with guys being on teams that win like 20 games a year.

If Jack was the 2nd best player... Then what was David Robinson?

Fired-Up
02-17-2013, 02:51 PM
If Jack was the 2nd best player... Then what was David Robinson?

a shell.

Sactown
02-17-2013, 02:52 PM
Tim Duncan this year has the best defensive rating in the league. Now I'm not one for stats, but his defense is fantastic right now. Plus, his offensive game is still there. Can Duncan iso and get a bucket. Yes. His game is flawless. Declining athleticism is affecting his dominance, but his game right now is still fundamentally perfect.

Duncan is great fundamentally... hence his nickname The Big Fundamental.. But at times he get's abused by bigger, faster PF's. His DRTG has a lot to do with Pop always having a fantastic defense. Tim Duncan arguably doesn't have the biggest impact on his own team let alone compared to all the bigs in the league.

TyrionLannister
02-17-2013, 02:53 PM
If he wasn't playing only 30 minutes a game he'd be an MVP candidate.

Fired-Up
02-17-2013, 02:55 PM
Duncan is great fundamentally... hence his nickname The Big Fundamental.. But at times he get's abused by bigger, faster PF's. His DRTG has a lot to do with Pop always having a fantastic defense. Tim Duncan arguably doesn't have the biggest impact on his own team let alone compared to all the bigs in the league.

If you are trying to say the guy who passes out of double teams, sets picks, rebounds, protects the rim, iso's, blocks shots and has the rest of the team play off him isn't the more important player on the team then you are wrong.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2013, 02:57 PM
Duncan won Finals MVP with Stephen Jackson as his 2nd best player. I take issue with guys being on teams that win like 20 games a year.

that isn't the current Duncan my friend.

ManRam
02-17-2013, 02:58 PM
Well, this year he might very well be, but he most certainly hasn't been for a while.

Sactown
02-17-2013, 02:59 PM
If you are trying to say the guy who passes out of double teams, sets picks, rebounds, protects the rim, iso's, blocks shots and has the rest of the team play off him isn't the more important player on the team then you are wrong.

Tony Parker carries that team.. Tony Parker shoots a higher FG% and he's a guard.. he averages 21/8 and is a legit MVP candidate.

Fired-Up
02-17-2013, 03:01 PM
Tony Parker carries that team.. Tony Parker shoots a higher FG% and he's a guard.. he averages 21/8 and is a legit MVP candidate.

I'm not one for stats. Pop knows why the team has 4 rings. His mantra is simple. We live and die by Tim Duncan. If you don't like it, leave. He said it himself.

ManRam
02-17-2013, 03:03 PM
I'm not one for stats. Pop knows why the team has 4 rings. His mantra is simple. We live and die by Tim Duncan. If you don't like it, leave. He said it himself.

Tim Duncan is gonna be 37 during the playoffs. Things change.

They'll go as far as TP takes them this year.

Sactown
02-17-2013, 03:05 PM
I'm not one for stats. Pop knows why the team has 4 rings. His mantra is simple. We live and die by Tim Duncan. If you don't like it, leave. He said it himself.

If they played Tim heavy minutes and rely on him in the playoffs... they're going to die by Tim. I can tell you that much. Tony Parker is the only chance they have at winning a title.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2013, 03:06 PM
I'm not one for stats. Pop knows why the team has 4 rings. His mantra is simple. We live and die by Tim Duncan. If you don't like it, leave. He said it himself.

Why do you continue to use Duncan's career to make up for what you claimed to begin with? Duncan has a slight case for being the best big this season, so far, but the last few years, no way in hell dude. Throwing his rings from years ago at us doesn't change that fact. If you are seeking validation that your favorite Spur is an all time great, by all means, you will get it. But he is not the same player he was years ago. Age happens, and younger, talented player catch and pass you.

Fired-Up
02-17-2013, 03:10 PM
Why do you continue to use Duncan's career to make up for what you claimed to begin with? Duncan has a slight case for being the best big this season, so far, but the last few years, no way in hell dude. Throwing his rings from years ago at us doesn't change that fact. If you are seeking validation that your favorite Spur is an all time great, by all means, you will get it. But he is not the same player he was years ago. Age happens, and younger, talented player catch and pass you.

Not denying that. A lesser Duncan, IMO is the best big man in the league.

Blitzbolt
02-17-2013, 03:12 PM
I'll take a 50 year old duncan over Kevin Love at his prime.

Why?Because I want to WIN!

Blitzbolt
02-17-2013, 03:12 PM
.Double post

Hawkeye15
02-17-2013, 03:14 PM
Not denying that. A lesser Duncan, IMO is the best big man in the league.

and that is where you will run into almost everyone disagreeing with you.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2013, 03:15 PM
I'll take a 50 year old duncan over Kevin Love at his prime.

Why?Because I want to WIN!

totally. I would take Robert Horry right now over Love. Why? Cause he wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiins!

Sactown
02-17-2013, 03:20 PM
totally. I would take Robert Horry right now over Love. Why? Cause he wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiins!

Bill Russell with his walker is > Prime Duncan, Love, Jordan, Horry, Kobe, Bron.

11 rings beats 4, 0, 6, 7, 5, 1..

In the words of the most prestigious journalist ever, Skip Bayless "All he does is win, all all all he does is win."

OceanSpray
02-17-2013, 03:22 PM
Brian Scalabrine is coming back and replacing Blake Griffin on the LAC because he's a winner.

OceanSpray
02-17-2013, 03:23 PM
Bill Russell with his walker is > Prime Duncan, Love, Jordan, Horry, Kobe, Bron.

11 rings beats 4, 0, 6, 7, 5, 1..

In the words of the most prestigious journalist ever, Skip Bayless "All he does is win, all all all he does is win."

I guess Jordan doesn't make it into the top 7 of best ever then.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-17-2013, 04:24 PM
He has a decent case this year, but the previous few years, no way. Injuries, limited minutes, and his play was down. He is playing great this season however, and with some bigs like Love and Dirk being hurt so much, and Dwight not near 100%, Gasol regressing and being injured, the competition for bigs got a little weaker.

^^^

LOOTERX9
02-17-2013, 05:27 PM
Duncan = too much of a boring player too watch. We don't want our pro athletes being as lame as he is. yes he's a great player but he is not fun to watch at all.

It's like that old saying "if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound?"

So Duncan is a great player but if there are not many fans there to watch him, did his greatness really happen?

Chronz
02-17-2013, 05:45 PM
Duncan won Finals MVP with Stephen Jackson as his 2nd best player. I take issue with guys being on teams that win like 20 games a year.

Stephen Jackson was far from their 2nd best player.

DallasTrilla23
02-17-2013, 08:57 PM
totally. I would take Robert Horry right now over Love. Why? Cause he wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiins!

not after what I saw last night lol

kdspurman
02-17-2013, 09:19 PM
Duncan is great fundamentally... hence his nickname The Big Fundamental.. But at times he get's abused by bigger, faster PF's. His DRTG has a lot to do with Pop always having a fantastic defense. Tim Duncan arguably doesn't have the biggest impact on his own team let alone compared to all the bigs in the league.

On the defensive end? Yea he does have the biggest impact on the team, with Kawhi breathing down his neck... I think you're overlooking his impact.


Tony Parker carries that team.. Tony Parker shoots a higher FG% and he's a guard.. he averages 21/8 and is a legit MVP candidate.

Yea his FG% is lower than Parkers, but frankly, he's taking more jump shots these days due to starting a long side Splitter, while Parker lives in the paint. Duncan has taken 283 mid range shots (44%) and 317 shots in the paint/restricted area combined. Naturally his FG% would be lower, he doesn't live in the post anymore.

The below is from late December, and up until his injury where he missed a handful of games, there was a serious argument for him to win DPOY. And depending on how he does the 2nd half of this season, he could still have serious contention.


As startling as it sounds, Duncan, a 13-time all-defensive big man, has never had a better shot-blocking campaign in his career. He's currently collecting 2.6 blocks per game with an average of only 30.6 minutes of playing time. In other words, he's blocking more shots per 36 minutes (3.0) than at any point in his 15 seasons in the league


Another hidden value of Duncan's blocks: He stays home rather than chase rejections all over the floor. In fact, 83.6 percent of Duncan's blocks come within five feet of the basket, which is the highest rate among the 17 players with at least 40 blocks to their name this season.

In some ways, Duncan's lack of athleticism is a blessing in disguise; it keeps him in close proximity of the rim and prevents him from block hunting on jumpers like others. Seen another way, the average shot distance of a Duncan blocked shot is 2.9 feet. Among the top 25 shot-blockers in the league, only Bismack Biyombo posted a shorter block average (2.7 feet). Compare that 2.9-foot average with Anthony Davis, who's often hailed as the next Duncan. His average blocked-shot is 7.1 feet away. Andrei Kirilenko? 8.4 feet. JaVale McGee? 5.2 feet. Duncan probably silently scoffs in their general direction.
Shortest blocked shot distance


More evidence of Duncan's subtle dominance on defense: He almost never fouls. As an illustration, let's compare him to his contemporaries. Serge Ibaka, Larry Sanders, Roy Hibbert and Dwight Howard are the only players who have more blocks than Duncan, and they've received 3.5, 4.3, 5.7 and 3.7 whistles per 36 minutes, respectively, this season. Duncan's foul rate? 2.1 fouls per 36 minutes, almost half those shot-blockers collective rate of 4.1 blocks per 36 minutes. Again, the Big Fundamental.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2013, 09:39 PM
not after what I saw last night lol

But he is a winner. Love is not. By bb's rational, no contest.

Sactown
02-17-2013, 10:21 PM
On the defensive end? Yea he does have the biggest impact on the team, with Kawhi breathing down his neck... I think you're overlooking his impact.



Yea his FG% is lower than Parkers, but frankly, he's taking more jump shots these days due to starting a long side Splitter, while Parker lives in the paint. Duncan has taken 283 mid range shots (44%) and 317 shots in the paint/restricted area combined. Naturally his FG% would be lower, he doesn't live in the post anymore.

The below is from late December, and up until his injury where he missed a handful of games, there was a serious argument for him to win DPOY. And depending on how he does the 2nd half of this season, he could still have serious contention.

I was just commenting team play does end up helping or hurting a players DRTG, because someone mentioned it was so great, I wasn't saying Tim Duncan doesn't have a huge impact on defense.. Obviously he anchors the defense, but there are a lot of good defenders on that team is all I was saying.

But as great as Duncan has been this year, the Spurs will live or die by Tony Parker's production come playoff time, he anchors that team on the offensive end and is a big part of why win. Tony Parker is the legit MVP candidate on that Team, it isn't Tim.

sventhedog
02-18-2013, 07:23 AM
Duncan is great fundamentally... hence his nickname The Big Fundamental.. But at times he get's abused by bigger, faster PF's. His DRTG has a lot to do with Pop always having a fantastic defense. Tim Duncan arguably doesn't have the biggest impact on his own team let alone compared to all the bigs in the league.

but don't most centers get abused by bigger, faster PF's?

DallasTrilla23
02-18-2013, 09:17 AM
But he is a winner. Love is not. By bb's rational, no contest.

But he air balled the half court shot!

SanAntonioSpurs23
02-18-2013, 09:23 AM
He has slowed down a lot in regards to defense but he is still a very good player because of his fundamentals. A younger Duncan would dominate this Duncan in my opinion but he is still playing at a very high level. He is a smart player that is able to overcome the steps that he has lost.

He's averaging a near career high in BPG. He's actually playing his best D since the 2007 season.


The reason Duncan doesn't get a lot of credit is because he's not a high flyer and he plays defense. Those two things Bspn hates.

IversonIsKrazy
02-18-2013, 05:59 PM
I love Duncan, but hes not the best big in the league either. A lot of his points/plays are plays off of Parker now. Tony is the leader of that team, and has been for the past few years.
As for past history, Duncan may have been the best player of the decade (2000-2010). And his 2003 was THE MOST impressive one. My god, David Robinson by FAR FAR away from what he once was, he was avging 8/8 that year. Tony Parker was the 2nd best player on that team, and he was a sophmore PG who didn't have a jumpshot who got 14ppg 5apg. Duncan averaged 25ppg, 15rpg, 3bpg and beat the 3-peat Lakers. Still amazed at how Spurs won that year, it was pretty much Duncan carrying that team. Simply amazing.

IversonIsKrazy
02-18-2013, 06:00 PM
Not to mention, during the 2003 playoffs, Duncan led him team in Points, Rebounds, Blocks & Assists.

mjt20mik
02-18-2013, 06:39 PM
He's not the best 4 in the league right now. However, he will go down as being the best 4 of all time.

Hawkeye15
02-18-2013, 07:17 PM
But he air balled the half court shot!

Horry carries teams to chips. Love is a stat whore whose numbers are empty.

Horry all day baby

Hawkeye15
02-18-2013, 07:18 PM
He's averaging a near career high in BPG. He's actually playing his best D since the 2007 season.


The reason Duncan doesn't get a lot of credit is because he's not a high flyer and he plays defense. Those two things Bspn hates.

Nor is he in a market, or on a team, that the national media oversensationalizes about every nanosecond. They are consistently awesome, never have internal strife, and this is boring to the media.

Manimal35
02-18-2013, 07:24 PM
I'd say he is the best big in the league right now, but that's not saying much considering we're in an era with historically poor play from bigs. Duncan may be a shell of his former self, yet he's putting up an all-nba season which is nothing short of amazing at his age. Top 10 player all time.

Hawkeye15
02-18-2013, 07:28 PM
I'd say he is the best big in the league right now, but that's not saying much considering we're in an era with historically poor play from bigs. Duncan may be a shell of his former self, yet he's putting up an all-nba season which is nothing short of amazing at his age. Top 10 player all time.

with the injuries to Love, Dirk, Dwight, Gasol, etc, this is a very down year for bigs anyways.

felixng2012
02-19-2013, 12:38 AM
He is the clear cut best big man right now.... Statistically no one is close tbh especially with Dwight's regression.

ThaDubs
02-19-2013, 01:52 AM
He's great and people don't talk about the Spurs in general as much because they're not flashy and focus more on the fundamentals (even though they have the best record in the league). Obviously this plays a part in why he doesn't get the deserved recognition but his per 36 stats are ridiculously better than the last few years (MIP dark horse?) and I would probably say he's the best center and best power forward in the league. True sports fans give him tons of praise. It's the stupid little kids and David Sterns that don't give him the credit.

jerellh528
02-19-2013, 03:42 AM
because he is not anymore /