PDA

View Full Version : Knicks open to trading Iman Shumpert



eternal slumber
02-16-2013, 10:13 PM
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/02/knicks-open-to-trading-iman-shumpert.html


Dudley and a first round pick might be enough

justinnum1
02-16-2013, 10:16 PM
No surprise here. If they are trying to win this year they trade him for someone that can help them now.

lamzoka
02-16-2013, 10:17 PM
is this news?

Nick O
02-16-2013, 10:20 PM
well anyone could use a talented young 7 footer.... at least i think thats how tall he is with that hair..

ManRam
02-16-2013, 10:21 PM
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_2axR4iWogBYAz5fwx9wvGJnB3nW3y NXkN4aWF6o_j7wFZrkY

ManRam
02-16-2013, 10:22 PM
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_2axR4iWogBYAz5fwx9wvGJnB3nW3y NXkN4aWF6o_j7wFZrkY

Hawkeye15
02-16-2013, 10:22 PM
can Knicks fans tell me why? Is he really being that disruptive?

justinnum1
02-16-2013, 10:25 PM
can Knicks fans tell me why? Is he really being that disruptive?

I think it has more to do with shump being their only tradable asset and the knicks need to add a piece if they want to get past miami. Still think shump for dudley is a fair trade for both teams.

AI
02-16-2013, 10:25 PM
He's not disruptive at all. Don't believe everything you read. Everybody loves him.

mdm692
02-16-2013, 10:28 PM
Read the articles people it is Iman's camp who feels his developing is being slowed by him playing minutes as a SF instead of a SG. They acknowledge the situation of being with a winning team but at the end of the day his camp is basically saying they want what's best for his career and a team like PHX would fit his needs perfectly. Nothing more to it.

xxplayerxx23
02-16-2013, 10:31 PM
can Knicks fans tell me why? Is he really being that disruptive?

No. He isn't 100% yet and the Knicks want to win now. They have no patience. I'd be upset to see him to but if we get a pick and a vet like Dudley I'd be okay with it. I still think shump is Ganna be a good player and wouldn't be surprised if he stays with us.

mdm692
02-16-2013, 10:33 PM
"There are major concerns (from people close to Shumpert) over how the Knicks are developing him," a source from another team told SheridanHoops.com, speaking on the condition of anonymity."They feel he’s being played out of position (at small forward) and his confidence is suffering because of it. They understand the team is having success and it has to be the right deal, but they’d prefer Iman in another situation… And soon."


http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/2/16/3996632/report-shumperts-camp-pushing-for-trade

Hawkeye15
02-16-2013, 10:34 PM
I would LOVE to get him on the Wolves and throw him at SG.

rocky4104
02-16-2013, 10:46 PM
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/02/knicks-open-to-trading-iman-shumpert.html


Dudley and a first round pick might be enough

..... and a first round pick?? for someone who has not proven himself yet and is recovering from a major injury and playing limited minutes?

mdm692
02-16-2013, 10:48 PM
We have the Minnesota pick o I don't mind giving them that one.

TO Rapz
02-16-2013, 10:57 PM
Bargnani for Shump

KniCks4LiFe
02-16-2013, 10:57 PM
can Knicks fans tell me why? Is he really being that disruptive?

Shump has no consistent jumper, his D has fell off. Athleticism is inconsistent to being able to finish. Turnover prone. He could potentially become Ronald Brewer. We can't risk that w/ our best shot at a ship' being w/ Melo, Tyson and Stat. Melo can't be taking 30 shots to get 40 pts., we can't win that way. So that's why. Plus the 1st rd. pick.

KniCks4LiFe
02-16-2013, 10:58 PM
Bargnani for Shump

No.

Kashmir13579
02-16-2013, 11:00 PM
Trading Shumpert would be a mistake, seeing as the Knicks are a mediocre team right now and an awful defensive team. I don't like it unless there is a guaranteed 1st round pick coming.

Knick_Fever
02-16-2013, 11:03 PM
Trading Shumpert would be a mistake, seeing as the Knicks are a mediocre team right now and an awful defensive team. I don't like it unless there is a guaranteed 1st round pick coming.

Or an All-Star caliber player.

Kashmir13579
02-16-2013, 11:04 PM
can Knicks fans tell me why? Is he really being that disruptive?
He isn't disruptive at all. If this even is true, the reasoning is probably that we don't have time for Shump to fully recover and we need help in the back court for the playoffs.

I think it has more to do with shump being their only tradable asset and the knicks need to add a piece if they want to get past miami. Still think shump for dudley is a fair trade for both teams.dude, **** Dudley. The only reason you think that is a fair trade is because you like to troll Knick fans. You know it, and i know it.

Kashmir13579
02-16-2013, 11:05 PM
Or an All-Star caliber player.

Shumpert isn't worth an all-star caliber player.

mdm692
02-16-2013, 11:07 PM
He isn't disruptive at all. If this even is true, the reasoning is probably that we don't have time for Shump to fully recover and we need help in the back court for the playoffs.
dude, **** Dudley. The only reason you think that is a fair trade is because you like to troll Knick fans. You know it, and i know it.

:facepalm: How sad is it that Knicks fans don't even know what's going on on their own team and how mis-informed they are about other players around the league.

D-Leethal
02-16-2013, 11:09 PM
Shumpert isn't worth an all-star caliber player.

I think his value could net a guy one tier below all star level in a unique situation - i.e Paul Millsap in a contract year. The only rumored deals I am interested is Millsap or Dudley + Lakers first this season or PHX's first rounder next season.

D-Leethal
02-16-2013, 11:10 PM
:facepalm: How sad is it that Knicks fans don't even know what's going on on their own team and how mis-informed they are about other players around the league.

What are you talking about? Shump isn't disruptive at all. He is the personality that bonds the team together if anything.

Sadds The Gr8
02-16-2013, 11:14 PM
Bargnani for Shump

this

AI
02-16-2013, 11:17 PM
What are you talking about? Shump isn't disruptive at all. He is the personality that bonds the team together if anything.

He even made our team song, some people will believe everything they read.

mdm692
02-16-2013, 11:20 PM
I'm posting this again because the ignorance of some of the posters here is ridiculous.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/2/16/3996632/report-shumperts-camp-pushing-for-trade


"There are major concerns (from people close to Shumpert) over how the Knicks are developing him," a source from another team told SheridanHoops.com, speaking on the condition of anonymity."They feel he’s being played out of position (at small forward) and his confidence is suffering because of it. They understand the team is having success and it has to be the right deal, but they’d prefer Iman in another situation… And soon."

As you can see from this most recent report, the reason why Knicks are more in favor of trading Shump is because his camp has suggested that a trade be made because apparently he isn't comfortable with his current role on the Knicks at the SF position. The reason why Dudley is one of their targets is because he brings high bball IQ, great defense and leadership along with a very good 3pt shot(40% for his career). Dudley makes the Knicks better by providing a consistent 3pt shot to stretch the floor for Melo without taking a hit on the defensive end. Dudley can also provide great leadership and composure off the bench or in the starting line up.

mdm692
02-16-2013, 11:35 PM
What are you talking about? Shump isn't disruptive at all. He is the personality that bonds the team together if anything.

Mis-read. Still your insight on Dudley is incorrect.

KniCks4LiFe
02-17-2013, 12:24 AM
What are you talking about? Shump isn't disruptive at all. He is the personality that bonds the team together if anything.

we don't lose anything losing Shump. Love him but he replaceable. We talking about a run for the NBA ECF and or Finals. We need the ball movement to lead to efficient shooting. Melo jacking up 25 - 30 shots while double teamed b/c Novak can't get open, JR isn't efficient and Shump can't shoot and you damn sure don't want Ray or Kidd shooting... ain't efficient.

KniCks4LiFe
02-17-2013, 12:27 AM
"There are major concerns (from people close to Shumpert) over how the Knicks are developing him," a source from another team told SheridanHoops.com, speaking on the condition of anonymity."They feel he’s being played out of position (at small forward) and his confidence is suffering because of it. They understand the team is having success and it has to be the right deal, but they’d prefer Iman in another situation… And soon."


That's been my thoughts on him. This isn't a Lin offensive upside type player. Don't overrate him. Jeremy had 15 - 17 games that Shump may never have. Don't overrate him. Get what you need.

sportscrazed
02-17-2013, 12:27 AM
How would a "source from another team" know what "Shumpert's people think." Also, why should we believe Chris Sheridan?

KniCks4LiFe
02-17-2013, 12:30 AM
How would a "source from another team" know what "Shumpert's people think." Also, why should we believe Chris Sheridan?

you think it's a source from another team or a whistle blower? point is he doesn't have star upside so what are we doing here. Lets not act like Shump is going to be CP3 or Clyde. Chill. Improve the team, b/c once Melo is drained out, when the dust clears, you ain't building no damn team around Iman Shumpert. Get off that cloud.

Hawkeye15
02-17-2013, 12:34 AM
Shump has no consistent jumper, his D has fell off. Athleticism is inconsistent to being able to finish. Turnover prone. He could potentially become Ronald Brewer. We can't risk that w/ our best shot at a ship' being w/ Melo, Tyson and Stat. Melo can't be taking 30 shots to get 40 pts., we can't win that way. So that's why. Plus the 1st rd. pick.

he is coming back from a serious knee injury. Did you expect everything to just be the same?

KniCks4LiFe
02-17-2013, 12:39 AM
he is coming back from a serious knee injury. Did you expect everything to just be the same?

No I didn't. But I also don't think fully healthy he's such a great untradeable piece. He's not an efficient shooter, he's turnover prone, he doesn't finish great. He has one pro, he plays D. But I'm not going to overrate him. You want to know what is going on. The Knicks fans haven't seen defense in years and last yr. this brotha was a bad man. But when you sit down and look at the bigger picture you sell this kid if you can get a piece for the future or that will help you win a title before his value drops.

Knicks fans who wanted defense = starving fat kid who hasn't eaten in years

Shumpert playing # 2 league leading perimeter defense last yr. = the piece of cracker that was found on the floor

ElishaJ1030
02-17-2013, 01:05 AM
I heard the Knicks are interested in Marion and Chris Kaman...

sunsfan88
02-17-2013, 01:22 AM
The only pick NY will get for Shump from the Suns is the Memphis/Minny 1st rd pick that we have which is like super protected.

OceanSpray
02-17-2013, 01:29 AM
Might be time to kick Shumpert out before the Dudley offer is off.

DoMeFavors
02-17-2013, 01:33 AM
He isnt a top player or anything and if they dont trade him they will regret it come summer time when they could get a nice vet that could help them come playoff time. the kids a brat aswell the way he acts.

gwrighter
02-17-2013, 02:48 AM
Damaged goods.

Silent
02-17-2013, 03:02 AM
Rose Shumpert Butler ? Noah:drool:

Clippersfan86
02-17-2013, 03:33 AM
Would Knicks fans take Bledsoe for Shumpert? You guys need a PG for the future... we need a SG. Similar value and both defensive monsters.

Chronz
02-17-2013, 03:47 AM
Would Knicks fans take Bledsoe for Shumpert? You guys need a PG for the future... we need a SG. Similar value and both defensive monsters.

Similar value? WTF?

Do you completely ignore health+stats when comparing players?

Clippersfan86
02-17-2013, 03:52 AM
Similar value? WTF?

Do you completely ignore health+stats when comparing players?

He's seemed fine since coming back from the ACL injury? Maybe Knicks could throw in something but in general I think the swap could benefit.

xxplayerxx23
02-17-2013, 03:57 AM
Lol some of you have no idea whatyou are talking about with Shump. He just came back relax. We won't regret not trading him if we don't end up doing the deal. And yes we would gladly take Bledsoe lol

Clippersfan86
02-17-2013, 04:03 AM
Lol some of you have no idea whatyou are talking about with Shump. He just came back relax. We won't regret not trading him if we don't end up doing the deal. And yes we would gladly take Bledsoe lol

If Shumpert gets 100 percent again from the injury it's a great trade for both sides. Same contract, same age and both high upside, top 5 perimeter defenders.

KniCks4LiFe
02-17-2013, 04:36 AM
Would Knicks fans take Bledsoe for Shumpert? You guys need a PG for the future... we need a SG. Similar value and both defensive monsters.

:smoking:

Kashmir13579
02-17-2013, 04:46 AM
:facepalm: How sad is it that Knicks fans don't even know what's going on on their own team and how mis-informed they are about other players around the league.

explain yourself or hold that

Captain Moroni
02-17-2013, 04:47 AM
Knicks are in win now mode. Any trade that helps that cause immediately should be considered.

I do believe Iman is being played out of position. I also believe he will be a star in the future.

Knicks want to win NOW not next year or 2 years from now. Adding a piece that gets them that much closer NOW makes sense to trade a future piece to the puzzle.

KniCks4LiFe
02-17-2013, 07:21 AM
Knicks are in win now mode. Any trade that helps that cause immediately should be considered.

I do believe Iman is being played out of position. I also believe he will be a star in the future.

Knicks want to win NOW not next year or 2 years from now. Adding a piece that gets them that much closer NOW makes sense to trade a future piece to the puzzle.

With no consistent or efficient jumpshot, w/ no real consistent passing skills, w/ being turnover prone and average going to the rim and below average finisher? he's a star potential now?

eternal slumber
02-17-2013, 09:41 AM
the Pros and Cons of trading Iman Shumpert

http://www.hoopsworld.com/the-pros-and-cons-of-trading-iman-shumpert/

just to add in the conversation.

detzfish
02-17-2013, 11:06 AM
Wish the pistons had a solid package to offer for him as I would love him at sg for the future. But will Bynum, Rodney stuckey, Jason Maxiell and Charlie Villanueva are the only players that make sense to send for the pistons but don't see the Knicks being interested in any of em. Brandon knight maybe but I don't see either team doing that

king4day
02-17-2013, 11:53 AM
Here's a pretty good article about the possibilities:

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/2/16/3996632/report-shumperts-camp-pushing-for-trade

It's worth the read from either side.

justinnum1
02-17-2013, 12:03 PM
Would Knicks fans take Bledsoe for Shumpert? You guys need a PG for the future... we need a SG. Similar value and both defensive monsters.

:facepalm:

bledsoe>>>>>>shump

king4day
02-17-2013, 12:06 PM
:facepalm:

bledsoe>>>>>>shump

I was thinking that too. Knicks fans would take that deal and run. Then they wanted, they could deal Bledsoe and get more than they could in a Shump deal.

Blitzbolt
02-17-2013, 12:15 PM
Shump is the best defender of all time <Knicks fans.

cssdmark
02-17-2013, 12:27 PM
Chris Paul will not approve Bledsoe for Shump and he is the Gm over there. Is it possible financially to get that big man from Utah, if not Dudley and unprotected first. Or how about the Knicks just play their players in their natural position, what a novel idea. Melo was a star plaing small forward prior to coming to the Knicks

D-Leethal
02-17-2013, 12:41 PM
Shump is the best defender of all time <Knicks fans.

I root for a team who trades shots at a championship for dollars saved, therefore I bash big market teams every chance I get because I am salty 1) No stars wanna play in Memphis and 2) My cheap *** owner wouldn't pay them even if they did! <Grizzlies fans

D-Leethal
02-17-2013, 12:45 PM
With no consistent or efficient jumpshot, w/ no real consistent passing skills, w/ being turnover prone and average going to the rim and below average finisher? he's a star potential now?

His passing skills are fine for a SG, TO prone? Might want to check on that one again....1.3 TO per 36 mins? .7 per game? He was one of the best at finishing at the rim last year according to his stats, but that has fallen off this year, mainly due to about 7 missed dunks thus far. The foundation for his jumper is there, hes got great form and he already has a mid range pull up which rarely any player comes into the league able to do nowadays. Jump shots are arguably the easiest fix in this league, especially when its not completely broken, which its not. Were not talking about Brewer or Fields here who make you cringe at the sight of their shot release.

I understand your point but your making **** up to prove it. Hes still a 'rook', you are acting like hes a 5 year vet who still displays those problems (not that he even displays some of the things you said right here and now).

Knick_Fever
02-17-2013, 12:46 PM
:facepalm:

bledsoe>>>>>>shump

A little over-exaggeration here. While Bledsoe is currently better than shump, he's under-sized on the defensive end. Shump is definitely more versatile and can guard 3 positions. More realistically- bledsoe>shump, and not another greater sign more.

KingPosey
02-17-2013, 12:53 PM
is this news?

It should be considering how big of a deal his return was supposed to be for you guys, and he's been AWFUL

nycericanguy
02-17-2013, 12:56 PM
The only pick NY will get for Shump from the Suns is the Memphis/Minny 1st rd pick that we have which is like super protected.

Knicks won't do that deal, we don't HAVE to deal Shump, in fact, we probably shouldn't. But he probably won't be the same this year and he's the only real asset we can trade and get something back for.

No way would I do Dudley for Shump straight up, Dudley is a very nice player and I like him alot, but he's just a role player. Shump is 22, cheap and has great potential. I agree that Bledsoe has more value, but Shump is in the convo, and LAC would never even entertain a Bledsoe for Dudley straight up.

I'd consider the deal if we got the Lakers pick this year and Dudley.

D-Leethal
02-17-2013, 12:56 PM
It should be considering how big of a deal his return was supposed to be for you guys, and he's been AWFUL

Not everyone is Adrian Peterson bro. How did Rubio look his first month? Shump is out there playing ball while Rose is still getting lubed and massaged up by dudes all day you should probably cut him a little slack. ACL tears are as bad as they get with sports injuries.

D-Leethal
02-17-2013, 01:00 PM
Knicks won't do that deal, we don't HAVE to deal Shump, in fact, we probably shouldn't. But he probably won't be the same this year and he's the only real asset we can trade and get something back for.

No way would I do Dudley for Shump straight up, Dudley is a very nice player and I like him alot, but he's just a role player. Shump is 22, cheap and has great potential. I agree that Bledsoe has more value, but Shump is in the convo, and LAC would never even entertain a Bledsoe for Dudley straight up.

I'd consider the deal if we got the Lakers pick this year and Dudley.

This is how I feel. Shump is really our only real asset left that can net us something of pretty good to great value in return. If were not getting an asset back that can replace that (like the Lakers pick) its not a trade worth making. Only deals I would consider are Dudley + LA pick (or next years PHX pick) or something that nets us Millsap.

justinnum1
02-17-2013, 01:09 PM
Knicks have no chance of getting millsap for shump.

BklynKnicks3
02-17-2013, 01:15 PM
knicks better not trade iman and shump

D-Leethal
02-17-2013, 01:23 PM
Knicks have no chance of getting millsap for shump.

I don't think its out of the realm of possibility. Millsap is a goner next season, they have no intention of resigning him. Its better than taking Humprhies and Brooks. Not sure many teams would take the risk unless they were confident he would definitely resign, and I think Knicks would be confident because he would start at PF and get a ton of minutes. I think Shump/Hayward would be a nice tandem at the 2/3 going into the future that compliments each other very well. I don't think there are many options out there for Utah other than letting him walk for nothing.

Dankster
02-17-2013, 01:30 PM
^^That's pretty much how I see it as well Leethal. If somehow the Knicks could find a way to include a draft pick and some expiring contracts to match the salaries together, a package centered around Iman isn't the worst thing Utah could accept. They'd have a young core of Alec, Iman, Enes and Favors..not bad at all. They'd still shed off the salaries at the end of the season and move forward with a bunch of young assets, and finally allow the young bigs to develop more.

D-Leethal
02-17-2013, 01:36 PM
^^That's pretty much how I see it as well Leethal. If somehow the Knicks could find a way to include a draft pick and some expiring contracts to match the salaries together, a package centered around Iman isn't the worst thing Utah could accept. They'd have a young core of Alec, Iman, Enes and Favors..not bad at all. They'd still shed off the salaries at the end of the season and move forward with a bunch of young assets, and finally allow the young bigs to develop more.

Novak doesn't have a lot of value but I think a team like Utah would like to have him. Spread provision makes his contract next to nothing against the cap.

rocky4104
02-17-2013, 01:45 PM
Knicks won't do that deal, we don't HAVE to deal Shump, in fact, we probably shouldn't. But he probably won't be the same this year and he's the only real asset we can trade and get something back for.

No way would I do Dudley for Shump straight up, Dudley is a very nice player and I like him alot, but he's just a role player. Shump is 22, cheap and has great potential.

I'd consider the deal if we got the Lakers pick this year and Dudley.

Dudley and the Laker's pick for someone who, in your own words, has great potential? key word -- potential

i wouldn't mind having shumpert in a SUns uniform but not at that cost

mdm692
02-17-2013, 02:19 PM
Right now Shump isn't even on Bledsoes level so how is he worth a lottery pick? We can give you our pick for next year but lotto protected.

Sactown
02-17-2013, 03:11 PM
Not everyone is Adrian Peterson bro. How did Rubio look his first month? Shump is out there playing ball while Rose is still getting lubed and massaged up by dudes all day you should probably cut him a little slack. ACL tears are as bad as they get with sports injuries.

Shump wasn't Adrian Peterson to begin with.. Ap was better when he came back.. nobody expected that from Shump, but to be this awful? and making a comparison to Rubio isn't right either. Rubio's base to his game isn't his athleticism, but for Shump it is. His value can't be that high considering how much he relies on his athleticism and how he had such a big injury his rookie season. There's a chance Shump will never have the same athletic prowess and that's a big concern.

Sactown
02-17-2013, 03:12 PM
Not everyone is Adrian Peterson bro. How did Rubio look his first month? Shump is out there playing ball while Rose is still getting lubed and massaged up by dudes all day you should probably cut him a little slack. ACL tears are as bad as they get with sports injuries.

Shump wasn't Adrian Peterson to begin with.. Ap was better when he came back.. nobody expected that from Shump, but to be this awful? and making a comparison to Rubio isn't right either. Rubio's base to his game isn't his athleticism, but for Shump it is. His value can't be that high considering how much he relies on his athleticism and how he had such a big injury his rookie season. There's a chance Shump will never have the same athletic prowess and that's a big concern.

JerseysFinest
02-17-2013, 03:35 PM
I don't think its out of the realm of possibility. Millsap is a goner next season, they have no intention of resigning him. Its better than taking Humprhies and Brooks. Not sure many teams would take the risk unless they were confident he would definitely resign, and I think Knicks would be confident because he would start at PF and get a ton of minutes. I think Shump/Hayward would be a nice tandem at the 2/3 going into the future that compliments each other very well. I don't think there are many options out there for Utah other than letting him walk for nothing.

Not quite. First off, the Knicks cannot even trade for Millsap without throwing in fillers since Shumpert's deal is much smaller. Unless they're willing to throw in J.R. and Camby, it can't happen. In a deal with the Nets, they could send Humphries to a third team, and that third team would send an asset to Utah (probably a point guard) and the Nets would send Brooks to Utah. Honestly, MarShon Brooks and Iman Shumpert aren't even that far apart in terms of talent. The media in New York overrate Shumpert to extreme levels, you'd think he's the second coming of Michael Jordan. Both are one dimensional players, Brooks being the better scorer and Shumpert being the better defender. Both are solid in transition, but Iman is probably the better athlete. I haven't seen enough of Shumpert to judge his playmaking ability, but Brooks is actually a surprisingly willing passer and makes smart plays occasionally. Both have the potential to improve as players since they're both young. We'll see in the coming days what will actually happen.

mdm692
02-17-2013, 04:07 PM
The Knicks need to realize the best offer they are going to get for Shump without giving away any other assets. Is Dudley and the Minny pick. Knicks can't get Milsap without including JR and Novak. Knicks won't get Bledsoe period because Bledsoe can net the Clippers much more. The only other team that I could see making a move for Shump is Minny but the Knicks probably want Shved which I doubt the Wolves will include. ******** and homerism aside if the Knicks want a ring during the Melo era they need to jump on this deal ASAP. They need what Dudley brings and aside from the athletic ability Dudley is superior in every single category. Even as a glue guy, which seems to be the reason why Knicks fan are hesistant, Dudley is better he's been doing it since the 2010 WCF run coming off the bench and he did it as a leader in the starting unit. You can make a million excuses as to why the Knicks need to keep Shumpert but at the end of the day it's all about winning a championship. Hey Knicks fans guess what? Dudley gets you closer to the ultimate goal.

KniCks4LiFe
02-17-2013, 04:09 PM
His passing skills are fine for a SG, TO prone? Might want to check on that one again....1.3 TO per 36 mins? .7 per game? He was one of the best at finishing at the rim last year according to his stats, but that has fallen off this year, mainly due to about 7 missed dunks thus far. The foundation for his jumper is there, hes got great form and he already has a mid range pull up which rarely any player comes into the league able to do nowadays. Jump shots are arguably the easiest fix in this league, especially when its not completely broken, which its not. Were not talking about Brewer or Fields here who make you cringe at the sight of their shot release.

I understand your point but your making **** up to prove it. Hes still a 'rook', you are acting like hes a 5 year vet who still displays those problems (not that he even displays some of the things you said right here and now).

His passing skills are inconsistant. The TO prone is real. He hasn't had the ball in his hands enough to show it. I bet his usg rtg is extremely low. So no you can't go by that per 36 mpg for him. Even last year Shump wasn't a great finisher D-Leethal. He's fallen off this year, granted it's after ACL surgery but we can't take that risk. What makes him possibly not a fall off player? lets be honest and real here. He ain't DWade, stop, he ain't Monta, he not GP, and he not Westbrook, so what are we doing here.

No one is making things up. Some people here can clearly see it. Now if you want to sugar coat his performance go ahead. I ain't. He's not a #1 option, he's not a #2 option, can he be a #3 option shooting 37-40% IDK. I certainly know right now we don't have the time to risk it.

Sactown
02-17-2013, 04:12 PM
His passing skills are inconsistant. The TO prone is real. He hasn't had the ball in his hands enough to show it. I bet his usg rtg is extremely low. So no you can't go by that per 36 mpg for him. Even last year Shump wasn't a great finisher D-Leethal. He's fallen off this year, granted it's after ACL surgery but we can't take that risk. What makes him possibly not a fall off player? lets be honest and real here. He ain't DWade, stop, he ain't Monta, he not GP, and he not Westbrook, so what are we doing here.

No one is making things up. Some people here can clearly see it. Now if you want to sugar coat his performance go ahead. I ain't. He's not a #1 option, he's not a #2 option, can he be a #3 option shooting 37-40% IDK. I certainly know right now we don't have the time to risk it.

This, NY should deal him since they're making a serious run this year, and their players aren't getting younger.. Also ideal to deal Shumpert when his value is still high, and before the "Potential" label falls off.

And realistically Shumpert is an athletic 2 guard who is a good defender, and a seriously liability on offense. His offense has actually improved this season believe it or not, (last year posting negative WS on offense), but his defense has fallen off tremendously. He's definitely a below average player who is probably best served coming off the bench for defense.

KniCks4LiFe
02-17-2013, 04:20 PM
This, NY should deal him since they're making a serious run this year, and their players aren't getting younger.. Also ideal to deal Shumpert when his value is still high, and before the "Potential" label falls off.

And realistically Shumpert is an athletic 2 guard who is a good defender, and a seriously liability on offense. His offense has actually improved this season believe it or not, (last year posting negative WS on offense), but his defense has fallen off tremendously. He's definitely a below average player who is probably best served coming off the bench for defense.

Even in Georgia Tech w/ Favors Shump's offense wasn't his strength. I'm thinking as a Knicks fan. What happens when Shump's value drops. What happens when his jumpshot is what it is b/c he's not putting in the work. What happens when he gets more touches and turns the ball over like Nash? w/o a consistent jumper, w/ a low amount of FT attempts and his only value will be good defender that can rebound some. He ain't a drive and kick player, so this isn't impossible.

It's only a matter a time that a deal can go from

Shumpert + filler for Derrick Favors or Milsap + 1st rd. pick

to filler, filler, pick + Shumpert for (40% shooting SF) + 2nd rd. pick

Knicks fans need to realize he's the piece that gets you something to survive the 1st rd. Stop worrying about his career. This ain't about Shump. It's about getting Melo and Tyson and Amar'e help.

D-Leethal
02-17-2013, 04:31 PM
His passing skills are inconsistant. The TO prone is real. He hasn't had the ball in his hands enough to show it. I bet his usg rtg is extremely low. So no you can't go by that per 36 mpg for him. Even last year Shump wasn't a great finisher D-Leethal. He's fallen off this year, granted it's after ACL surgery but we can't take that risk. What makes him possibly not a fall off player? lets be honest and real here. He ain't DWade, stop, he ain't Monta, he not GP, and he not Westbrook, so what are we doing here.

No one is making things up. Some people here can clearly see it. Now if you want to sugar coat his performance go ahead. I ain't. He's not a #1 option, he's not a #2 option, can he be a #3 option shooting 37-40% IDK. I certainly know right now we don't have the time to risk it.

I'm not overrating him at all. We don't need him to be Wade or Monta Ellis (who sucks, btw), and we don't expect him to be. No one here is calling a 2nd or 3rd option. He doesn't need to be a guy with a high usage rate.

People are just accounting for natural progression where you are expecting him to turn into Toney Douglas 2.0. He has foundation to build from for his offensive game, its not completely broken at all and has an array of different offensive skills. He dropped 25 twice last year in his rookie season and showed he could be called upon during the Linsanity stretch to provide an offensive punch.

Either way, the things you are saying aren't true. His 3 ball is dropping this year at over 40%, and hes always had great form on his jumper. He has a midrange off the dribble pull up in his arsenal, which next to none of the young players come into the league with. Last year he shot 61% at the rim, this year hes shooting 35% at the rim. He was a good finisher last year, hes struggling this year off ACL injury but has literally missed 6 or 7 dunks and a few point blank layups. Clear indications of rust.

Ok, his usage isn't very high but his TOV% is 10.2 compared to your boy young phenom JLin at 19.6 (who's USG ain't much higher than Shumps), and 14.6 for JKidd. His TO's aren't a problem at all.

D-Leethal
02-17-2013, 04:32 PM
BTW I am all for a trade if it makes us better, just calling a spade a spade. Shump ain't no scrub just like Rubio wasn't when he was playing like one after his injury. I do agree with your assessment of starving Knick fans getting a taste of defensive filet mignon for the first time in ages and falling in love with the kid.

OceanSpray
02-17-2013, 04:35 PM
BTW I am all for a trade if it makes us better, just calling a spade a spade. Shump ain't no scrub just like Rubio wasn't when he was playing like one after his injury. I do agree with your assessment of starving Knick fans getting a taste of defensive filet mignon for the first time in ages and falling in love with the kid.

The question is whether or not Shump can get back to that old form. NYK want to win now with Carmelo playing his best game and Amare showing he can co-exist with Melo. They don't have time for Shump to recover just like LAL pressuring Howard to play through his injuries.

D-Leethal
02-17-2013, 04:43 PM
The question is whether or not Shump can get back to that old form. NYK want to win now with Carmelo playing his best game and Amare showing he can co-exist with Melo. They don't have time for Shump to recover just like LAL pressuring Howard to play through his injuries.

I agree. Its bad timing for Shump. Knicks did him no favors by stinking up the joint the last 3 games before the break. That was their time to convince the FO they are ready to make a run at this thing as-is, and they clearly didn't do that. Nobody to blame but themselves for that one. Shump's really our only trade asset that can bring back a legitimate piece so he might have to be sacrificed, were just not desperate by any means to trade him for scrubs, its gotta be a deal that helps us and if teams really want him for a guy with a crappy contract like Dudley, they are going to have to overpay a little bit to get him or no deal. We have the leverage in most of these scenarios and teams are approaching us, not vice versa.

Chronz
02-17-2013, 05:56 PM
He's seemed fine since coming back from the ACL injury? Maybe Knicks could throw in something but in general I think the swap could benefit.
So the answer is yes?

Put it this way, while your thinking Shump, the "sources" are thinking KG/Milsap etc..

Shump is a fine 8th man, fringe starter on a team stacked with spacing at every position. But hes a horrible fit IMO, his defense is great but I loathe his offensive game.

Chronz
02-17-2013, 06:11 PM
His passing skills are fine for a SG, TO prone? Might want to check on that one again....1.3 TO per 36 mins? .7 per game? He was one of the best at finishing at the rim last year according to his stats, but that has fallen off this year, mainly due to about 7 missed dunks thus far. The foundation for his jumper is there, hes got great form and he already has a mid range pull up which rarely any player comes into the league able to do nowadays. Jump shots are arguably the easiest fix in this league, especially when its not completely broken, which its not. Were not talking about Brewer or Fields here who make you cringe at the sight of their shot release.

Thats a compelling argument. I had more hope for his potential before the injury but you make it sound like its not much of a concern moving forward.

His floor game sucks IMO but I understand the stats dont back it, still part of me thinks him trying to facilitate is just an excuse for his passivity when he should be looking to force the issue. My biggest problem with him is his inability to use that athleticism for anything other than setting up low% jump shots. We had someone like that in Al Thornton a few years back, only without the 1 on 1 defense and decent assist stats. It looks good when he has it going, but over a course of a few games it eventually kills your offense. His stats look better this year, and thats with him barely getting acclimated. Hes still not a guy I would trade Bledsoe for.


I understand your point but your making **** up to prove it. Hes still a 'rook', you are acting like hes a 5 year vet who still displays those problems (not that he even displays some of the things you said right here and now).
The sad thing is, if he was a high turnover prone player but a better shooter, I would have more hope for him. Turnovers are generally the 1 statistic that players see the most growth. Sure enough that has held true for Shump this year, but he has some work to put it in.

Fresno
02-17-2013, 06:14 PM
Pretty shocking to see but it is best for his career


Woodson has maintained that Shumpert is in the team’s long-term plans.

But according to a report by Chris Sheridan (sheridanhoops.com), it’s Shumpert--or, rather, his people--who are growing tired of the Knicks.

“There are major concerns (from people close to Shumpert) over how the Knicks are developing him,” a source told Sheridan.

“They feel he’s being played out of position (at small forward) and his confidence is suffering because of it,” the source continued. “They understand the team is having success and it has to be the right deal, but they’d prefer Iman in another situation… And soon.”

It’s true that Shumpert is playing out of position at small forward. Not only should he be in the backcourt, but he should be handling the ball in an effort to develop him as a distributor.

http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2013/02/iman_shumperts_representatives.html

I think he can develop into a very good PG but not a great one if he keeps working on it

At worst he's a combo guard who can occasionally run the offense similar to the way James Harden, Joe Johnson, or Tyreke Evans but hes a better defender and athlete.

DoMeFavors
02-17-2013, 06:16 PM
I seriously doubt this is true, guy wont shut up about being a knick

RLundi
02-17-2013, 06:17 PM
Shumpert a point guard??

I don't see it.

mightybosstone
02-17-2013, 06:17 PM
It seems like this is a lot of drama for such a mediocre player. I almost feel like his value has been inflated because he plays in New York and Knicks fans are so desperate for young players. I also feel bad for Knicks fans, because he was pretty much the only young player with potential on the team, and he already wants out. That doesn't say too much for where this franchise is at right now...

Chronz
02-17-2013, 06:17 PM
His passing skills are inconsistant. The TO prone is real. He hasn't had the ball in his hands enough to show it. I bet his usg rtg is extremely low. So no you can't go by that per 36 mpg for him. Even last year Shump wasn't a great finisher D-Leethal. He's fallen off this year, granted it's after ACL surgery but we can't take that risk. What makes him possibly not a fall off player? lets be honest and real here. He ain't DWade, stop, he ain't Monta, he not GP, and he not Westbrook, so what are we doing here.

No one is making things up. Some people here can clearly see it. Now if you want to sugar coat his performance go ahead. I ain't. He's not a #1 option, he's not a #2 option, can he be a #3 option shooting 37-40% IDK. I certainly know right now we don't have the time to risk it.
Good point about his usage. Thats probably where most of his "improvement" has come. 39% of his offense has come from spot-up attempts, vs 24% last year. To his credit hes converting on those opportunities but I wonder how he would fare if he was back at his "natural" spot, even worse, how does he fare if the jumper stops falling.

KnicksorBust
02-17-2013, 06:19 PM
He doesn't want out. He's writing rap songs about how much he loves his teammates. His agents are just being overly aggressive. I highly doubt anything comes of this.

Felton-Shump-Melo-Stat-Chandler are all young enough to stay together and put some playoff runs together. No reason to break that up the very first season we look like a solid team again.

Sactown
02-17-2013, 06:20 PM
It seems like this is a lot of drama for such a mediocre player. I almost feel like his value has been inflated because he plays in New York and Knicks fans are so desperate for young players. I also feel bad for Knicks fans, because he was pretty much the only young player with potential on the team, and he already wants out. That doesn't say too much for where this franchise is at right now...
... hes a bad player.... on any other team this would be a non story

Fresno
02-17-2013, 06:21 PM
Shumpert a point guard??

I don't see it.

He played PG in college.

Really wouldnt be the traditional PG who can make great passes and keep a low turnover rate.

I didnt see Russell Westbrook being a Point Guard either but the Thunder put him out there and he steadily developed each season at the position. When you're a great athlete and can handle the ball it really opens things up for the offense depending on who else is out there with him.

Spiggity_ace
02-17-2013, 06:21 PM
LETs ship stuckey n other **** for him, im down for gettin him in detroit!!!!

Sactown
02-17-2013, 06:22 PM
He played PG in college.

Really wouldnt be the traditional PG who can make great passes and keep a low turnover rate.

I didnt see Russell Westbrook being a Point Guard either but the Thunder put him out there and he steadily developed each season at the position. When you're a great athlete and can handle the ball it really opens things up for the offense depending on who else is out there with him.

Russell plays offense... Hes a threat to score... Shump isn't.

Fresno
02-17-2013, 06:27 PM
It seems like this is a lot of drama for such a mediocre player. I almost feel like his value has been inflated because he plays in New York and Knicks fans are so desperate for young players. I also feel bad for Knicks fans, because he was pretty much the only young player with potential on the team, and he already wants out. That doesn't say too much for where this franchise is at right now...

Last season several current/former NBA players, coaches, & others who scout the game mentioned how he was arguably the best on ball defender who has come into the NBA in awhile.

Before the 2011 NBA Draft most draft sites acknowledged he was the best defender coming in but he lived up to those expectations as a rookie.

So I wouldnt call him a mediocre player despite him struggling 10 games into his return

If he can improve his jumpshot he will be a really good player in the league beyond just being just another Tony Allen type.

Fresno
02-17-2013, 06:29 PM
Russell plays offense... Hes a threat to score... Shump isn't.

How long did it take for Russell to shoot consistently?

DoMeFavors
02-17-2013, 06:33 PM
Its pretty stupid tho he is starting at SF, that is small ball beyond belief. thats dantoni stuff

PC
02-17-2013, 06:35 PM
... hes a bad player.... on any other team this would be a non story

LOL a bad player?

I'm not the type to overrate my team's players but to straight up call him a bad player is ignorant

DoMeFavors
02-17-2013, 06:38 PM
LOL a bad player?

I'm not the type to overrate my team's players but to straight up call him a bad player is ignorant

Well he isnt a good player, he cant even shoot over 40 percent from the floor. He is overated just like Fields was

Sactown
02-17-2013, 06:38 PM
How long did it take for Russell to shoot consistently?

Westbrook took huge strides his second year and didn't suffer a huge, athletic altering injury.. Also Westbrook averaged 15/5 his rookie season.. Shumpert averaged 9.5 and 2.8..

They aren't comparable. RWB was miles ahead of Shumpert.

Sactown
02-17-2013, 06:41 PM
LOL a bad player?

I'm not the type to overrate my team's players but to straight up call him a bad player is ignorant

He posts below the league average in PER, has an astronomically bad TS% of .435... and his "Defensive prowess" is leading to .7 steals .1 blocks and a DRTG of 107 And WS/48 is .054... Yes Shumpert is a bad player currently.. Does he have potential? In my eyes, not much, but in others? I guess people do see potential.. but never as more than a boarderline starter with a bad offensive game

Would you prefer I call him a below average player?

LOOTERX9
02-17-2013, 06:43 PM
shump is a pretty bad shooter. ill trade him for millsap in a second. and if the suns threw in a unprotected draft pick id trade him for dudley too for sure. Yhat would be a steal for the knicks

oak2455
02-17-2013, 06:45 PM
Wow pages of blah blah I guess no news lol

KnicksorBust
02-17-2013, 06:46 PM
Well he isnt a good player, he cant even shoot over 40 percent from the floor. He is overated just like Fields was

He's a phenomenal defensive player who can guard 3 positions. His offensive game needs to develop but he's shooting over 40% from 3pt right now and he averaged about 10ppg-3apg-3rpg with 1.7spg in his rookie season. Sign me up for 10+ seasons of Iman Shumpert please. I love how he fits on our team.

LOOTERX9
02-17-2013, 06:47 PM
And actually Jeremy Lin had much greater offensive moments his short rookie year than shumpurt. shump is no franchise player cause his offense is below average. shump is good for on the ball defense and not much else

PC
02-17-2013, 06:48 PM
He posts below the league average in PER, has an astronomically bad TS% of .435... and his "Defensive prowess" is leading to .7 steals .1 blocks and a DRTG of 107 And WS/48 is .054... Yes Shumpert is a bad player currently.. Does he have potential? In my eyes, not much, but in others? I guess people do see potential.. but never as more than a boarderline starter with a bad offensive game

And you're judging him based off of 13 games following a torn ACL while playing a position he's never played before. Seems perfectly reasonable

KnicksorBust
02-17-2013, 06:49 PM
He posts below the league average in PER, has an astronomically bad TS% of .435... and his "Defensive prowess" is leading to .7 steals .1 blocks and a DRTG of 107 And WS/48 is .054... Yes Shumpert is a bad player currently.. Does he have potential? In my eyes, not much, but in others? I guess people do see potential.. but never as more than a boarderline starter with a bad offensive game

Would you prefer I call him a below average player?

Dude are you really looking at his per game numbers while he is averaging 19mpg in 13 games since coming back from a serious injury? That's pretty weak.

How bout last season where he was in the top 10 in both steals per game and steal percentage. How bout averaging 10ppg/3rpg/3apg as a role player? You want to bag on him for this year? He's still bringing it on one end of the floor. Defensively opponents are shooting under 31% from the field against him. How do you like that?

KnicksorBust
02-17-2013, 06:49 PM
double post. :)

knicks=love
02-17-2013, 06:54 PM
He isnt a top player or anything and if they dont trade him they will regret it come summer time when they could get a nice vet that could help them come playoff time. the kids a brat aswell the way he acts.

how the **** is he a brat?

Sactown
02-17-2013, 06:55 PM
And you're judging him based off of 13 games following a torn ACL while playing a position he's never played before. Seems perfectly reasonable
Okay how about his rookie season playing at his position:

Still a horrible TS% of .484. A ORTG OF 96! posting NEGATIVE offensive WS.. still below the league average PER at 10.8, Averaging 1.8 turnovers and 2.8 assist, and shooting 30% from deep..

Still bad player numbers, his defense was good, but was totally off set by his horrendous offense.. which it was.. horrendous.

best case scenario I think is Tony Allen. Elite defender, but ultimately fringe starter/ 6th man who understands there role.

mightybosstone
02-17-2013, 06:55 PM
Dude are you really looking at his per game numbers while he is averaging 19mpg in 13 games since coming back from a serious injury? That's pretty weak.

How bout last season where he was in the top 10 in both steals per game and steal percentage. How bout averaging 10ppg/3rpg/3apg as a role player? You want to bag on him for this year? He's still bringing it on one end of the floor. Defensively opponents are shooting under 31% from the field against him. How do you like that?

A couple of things....

You can't excuse his poor offensive output by claiming he's only playing 19 minutes a night and then tout his defensive numbers in those same minutes. Double standard, dude.

Also, I'm totally fine with Knicks fans viewing him as a solid role player with some untapped potential, but let's not go any further than that. The guy has a ton of holes in his game right now, and while he may always have a role in this league because of his defensive prowess, the guy is still a mess offensively. I'm not ready to knock him for his poor play this season, because he's coming off a major injury and he's still very young. But let's also see Shumpert for what he is and not what he could be.

DoMeFavors
02-17-2013, 07:03 PM
He's a phenomenal defensive player who can guard 3 positions. His offensive game needs to develop but he's shooting over 40% from 3pt right now and he averaged about 10ppg-3apg-3rpg with 1.7spg in his rookie season. Sign me up for 10+ seasons of Iman Shumpert please. I love how he fits on our team.
Just cause players defend doesnt mean they are good players, id rather a skilled offensive player over a black hole on defense on a bad defensive team

DoMeFavors
02-17-2013, 07:04 PM
how the **** is he a brat?

The way he acts, he has been in the league playing for little over a year and the way he acted last season he disrespected a lot of vets like KG. With stare downs after dunks. Just comes off as a brat to me

knicks=love
02-17-2013, 07:16 PM
The way he acts, he has been in the league playing for little over a year and the way he acted last season he disrespected a lot of vets like KG. With stare downs after dunks. Just comes off as a brat to me

so you want people to push him around? he's standing up for himself. everyone disrespects everyone on the court and they make up for it off the court. you just love to come up with the dumbest ****ing excuses for everything related to the knicks. how are you not banned yet?

DoMeFavors
02-17-2013, 07:20 PM
so you want people to push him around? he's standing up for himself. everyone disrespects everyone on the court and they make up for it off the court. you just love to come up with the dumbest ****ing excuses for everything related to the knicks. how are you not banned yet?

Its not defending himself, he was also yelling to Blatche according to reports in pre season that he is an awful player. He shouldnt disrespect people that have been in the league for years while he has proven nothing. I dont have any excuses its my opinion on him.

Kashmir13579
02-17-2013, 07:26 PM
Okay how about his rookie season playing at his position:

Still a horrible TS% of .484. A ORTG OF 96! posting NEGATIVE offensive WS.. still below the league average PER at 10.8, Averaging 1.8 turnovers and 2.8 assist, and shooting 30% from deep..

Still bad player numbers, his defense was good, but was totally off set by his horrendous offense.. which it was.. horrendous.

best case scenario I think is Tony Allen. Elite defender, but ultimately fringe starter/ 6th man who understands there role.
He wasnt playing his position last year. Continue talking out of your arse though, by all means.

TheNumber37
02-17-2013, 07:27 PM
Woodson is playing him out of position. Kidd should be coming off the bench.
Still, Iman will stay.

Kashmir13579
02-17-2013, 07:35 PM
The Knicks need to realize the best offer they are going to get for Shump without giving away any other assets. Is Dudley and the Minny pick. Knicks can't get Milsap without including JR and Novak. Knicks won't get Bledsoe period because Bledsoe can net the Clippers much more. The only other team that I could see making a move for Shump is Minny but the Knicks probably want Shved which I doubt the Wolves will include. ******** and homerism aside if the Knicks want a ring during the Melo era they need to jump on this deal ASAP. They need what Dudley brings and aside from the athletic ability Dudley is superior in every single category. Even as a glue guy, which seems to be the reason why Knicks fan are hesistant, Dudley is better he's been doing it since the 2010 WCF run coming off the bench and he did it as a leader in the starting unit. You can make a million excuses as to why the Knicks need to keep Shumpert but at the end of the day it's all about winning a championship. Hey Knicks fans guess what? Dudley gets you closer to the ultimate goal.

You sound like you want this trade to go through.

Clippersfan86
02-17-2013, 07:40 PM
I didn't realize Shumpert was so bad offensively, even in his rookie year...

Sactown
02-17-2013, 07:45 PM
I didn't realize Shumpert was so bad offensively, even in his rookie year...
Don't worry, most Knick fans will give you an excuse why his offense is horrendous.

Mile High Champ
02-17-2013, 08:27 PM
An awful offensive option with good bug not great defense. Knicks should not expect much in return.

TrueFan420
02-17-2013, 08:33 PM
This is 9 pages... Really? He's nothing special just a good role player

Kashmir13579
02-17-2013, 09:20 PM
Don't worry, most Knick fans will give you an excuse why his offense is horrendous.

Most Knick fans would tell you we drafted him because we needed defense, his offensive game being a well worth-it project. Certainly not a lost cause. Just because you can pull up basketball-reference doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. It shows in your arguments, where you show clear lack of context and perspective.

Sactown
02-17-2013, 11:27 PM
Most Knick fans would tell you we drafted him because we needed defense, his offensive game being a well worth-it project. Certainly not a lost cause. Just because you can pull up basketball-reference doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. It shows in your arguments, where you show clear lack of context and perspective.

Lol yet most people agree he's nothing more than a roll player, it's not just me saying he isn't a good player lol.. And yes I backed up my argument with stats, just to prove how bad Shumpert is offensively.. which he is regardless of what you say. Look at the post 2 spots above yours.. I'm not the only one.. but Knicks fans are the only ones saying he has star potential..

You lack context and perspective because you're a near sighted homer...