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View Full Version : Why r their so many people on psd that dont understand the difference?



Jayrich28
02-16-2013, 01:39 PM
This is probably the most confusing issue on psd?

What criteria r we using to rank greatness btw players?

Me and hawkeye had a discussion bout this once.

Its crazy how ppl interpid the rings argument and it goes to players like horry,fisher,kerr,morrison,salley,etc., Being linked in with kobe,mj,lbj,kareem, magic,etc.

I dont think ive seen one person on psd say rings makes that player better period.

Well I told hawkeye during r debate cuz we were comparing isiah and stockton...i said I ranked players as follow

1. R u an allstar
2. career numbers legit
3. Individual awards
4. Rings
5. Intangibles
6. And career moment (plays or games that define ur career)

I though isiah did more overall than stockton he thought otherwise?

So I wanna know psd how do u rank ur players?

hugepatsfan
02-16-2013, 01:43 PM
No one's going to take your side if your side proposes an evaluation method that ranks Issiah higher than Stockton.

Blitzbolt
02-16-2013, 01:51 PM
I think WINS is the one and only important stat and not RINGS for example I hate guys like Monta Ellis Kevin Love and Kyrie Irvin because they put up stats but they don't put up wins.

For me the best player in the NBA right now is Bosh because he is clearly a first option but he sacrifice his game for WINS.

Nick O
02-16-2013, 01:52 PM
you know ARE and YOU are already pretty short words.. minus well finish writing them out you know?

ManRam
02-16-2013, 01:55 PM
Well written.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-16-2013, 01:57 PM
you know ARE and YOU are already pretty short words.. minus well finish writing them out you know?


Well written.

LOl

xxplayerxx23
02-16-2013, 01:58 PM
I think WINS is the one and only important stat and not RINGS for example I hate guys like Monta Ellis Kevin Love and Kyrie Irvin because they put up stats but they don't put up wins.

For me the best player in the NBA right now is Bosh because he is clearly a first option but he sacrifice his game for WINS.

:laugh:

b@llhog24
02-16-2013, 02:00 PM
I think WINS is the one and only important stat and not RINGS for example I hate guys like Monta Ellis Kevin Love and Kyrie Irvin because they put up stats but they don't put up wins.

For me the best player in the NBA right now is Bosh because he is clearly a first option but he sacrifice his game for WINS.

I want to put this in my sig so badly. :sigh:

ManRam
02-16-2013, 02:01 PM
I think WINS is the one and only important stat and not RINGS for example I hate guys like Monta Ellis Kevin Love and Kyrie Irvin because they put up stats but they don't put up wins.

For me the best player in the NBA right now is Bosh because he is clearly a first option but he sacrifice his game for WINS.

This is truly amazing.

Jayrich28
02-16-2013, 02:01 PM
How do u figure?

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-16-2013, 02:02 PM
Like a Bosh!

:cool:

Nick O
02-16-2013, 02:03 PM
loool k i didnt read the whole thing... i love bosh... im probably one of his biggest supporters on this site...... but i dont know what kind of crack you have been doing.. but it's been 65 million years since bosh has been the best basketball player on earth ;)

Jayrich28
02-16-2013, 02:04 PM
Minus...u know does not equal might as well right?
But we r not here for that r we?

ManRam
02-16-2013, 02:06 PM
How do u figure?


Minus...u know does not equal might as well right?
But we r not here for that r we?

Pardon me, but what the **** are you talking about?

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-16-2013, 02:13 PM
before this gets closed, can you explain your title? why wasnt "why" abbreviated to just the letter "y" and why didnt you spell there correctly, when it has the same amount of letters? :confused:

sep11ie
02-16-2013, 02:15 PM
I feel like someone just molested my eyes.

PhlyHighPhilly
02-16-2013, 02:34 PM
This is probably the most confusing issue on psd?

What criteria r we using to rank greatness btw players?

Me and hawkeye had a discussion bout this once.

Its crazy how ppl interpid the rings arguement and it goes to players like horry,fisher,kerr,morrison,salley,etc.
Being linked in with kobe,mj,lbj,kareem, magic,etc.

I dont think ive seen one person on psd say rings makes that player better period.

Well I told hawkeye during r debate cuz we were comparing isiah and stockton...i said I ranked players as follow

1. R u an allstar
2. career numbers legit
3. Individual awards
4. Rings
5. Intangibles
6. And career moment (plays or games that define ur career)

I though isiah did more overall than stockton he thought otherwise?

So I wanna know psd how do u rank ur players?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

smith&wesson
02-16-2013, 02:43 PM
This is probably the most confusing issue on psd?

What criteria r we using to rank greatness btw players?

Me and hawkeye had a discussion bout this once.

Its crazy how ppl interpid the rings arguement and it goes to players like horry,fisher,kerr,morrison,salley,etc.
Being linked in with kobe,mj,lbj,kareem, magic,etc.

I dont think ive seen one person on psd say rings makes that player better period.

Well I told hawkeye during r debate cuz we were comparing isiah and stockton...i said I ranked players as follow

1. R u an allstar
2. career numbers legit
3. Individual awards
4. Rings
5. Intangibles
6. And career moment (plays or games that define ur career)

I though isiah did more overall than stockton he thought otherwise?

So I wanna know psd how do u rank ur players?

You know fans get to vote the allstars right ? Honestly imo that is a Terrible way to judge a player.

mdm692
02-16-2013, 02:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

:laugh:. The only rational post in this thread.

Jayrich28
02-16-2013, 02:56 PM
You know fans get to vote the allstars right ? Honestly imo that is a Terrible way to judge a player.

What r u talking bout. Every great has made an all star team. If u can't make a handful of those ur not even in this discussion.

Jayrich28
02-16-2013, 03:14 PM
Pardon me, but what the **** are you talking about?

Disregard that it didnt copy the quotes to who I was talking too

Hawkeye15
02-16-2013, 06:45 PM
I think WINS is the one and only important stat and not RINGS for example I hate guys like Monta Ellis Kevin Love and Kyrie Irvin because they put up stats but they don't put up wins.

For me the best player in the NBA right now is Bosh because he is clearly a first option but he sacrifice his game for WINS.

you are amazing dude

RLundi
02-16-2013, 06:46 PM
Can't take you seriously until you fix your grammar.

GREATNESS ONE
02-16-2013, 07:03 PM
you know ARE and YOU are already pretty short words.. minus well finish writing them out you know?

Hahahahah first thing I noticed too. Can't even stand it in a text let alone typed out -_______-

Guppyfighter
02-16-2013, 09:00 PM
I think WINS is the one and only important stat and not RINGS for example I hate guys like Monta Ellis Kevin Love and Kyrie Irvin because they put up stats but they don't put up wins.

For me the best player in the NBA right now is Bosh because he is clearly a first option but he sacrifice his game for WINS.


Kevin Love's teams put up a lot less wins when he is out. Same with Irving's team. Their impact is clear. Ellis teams put up more wins when he doesn't play.

bucketss
02-16-2013, 09:03 PM
I think WINS is the one and only important stat and not RINGS for example I hate guys like Monta Ellis Kevin Love and Kyrie Irvin because they put up stats but they don't put up wins.

For me the best player in the NBA right now is Bosh because he is clearly a first option but he sacrifice his game for WINS.

w
t
f???

JasonJohnHorn
02-16-2013, 09:04 PM
Thomas had three finals appearances, Stockton had two. They aren't that far apart in terms how many deep playoff runs they each had... Stockton actually had more playoff wins than Thomas.


Stockton's numbers alone blow Thomas out of the water, from his assist average to his percentages to his steals and low turnovers... Stockton was just better than Thomas. I will concede that when Thomas was playing at his best, his best was better than whatever Stockton could do on his best day, but this league is about consistency, and Stockton was more consistent.

Rings are dependent on a lot of things. Stockton had Malone and Malone and then Malone and Horneck, he never had the supporting cast Thomas had: Dumar, The Mircowave, Laimbeer, Rodman, MaHorn, Edwards, Salley, Aguire/Dantley. I mean that Pistons team was LOADED!! Had the Pistons had Stockton in his prime then, they may have very easily won all three finals appearances and put off Jordan's first championship as well.

KnicksorBust
02-16-2013, 09:31 PM
That OP was an abomination but I like the idea of the thread. I value several different things:

1. Individual Accolades (MVPs, All-NBA Teams, etc.)
2. Statistics (Per Game, Advanced)
3. Success (regular season success, rings, and the role the individual played in that success)

In my opinion, players who have been #1-#2 option on winning teams have an edge when they are being compared with players of similar production.

sunsfan88
02-16-2013, 09:43 PM
The OP exactly explains and shows America's decline in education.

THE GIPPER
02-16-2013, 09:55 PM
you are amazing dude

WINS!! ITS ALL ABOUT WINS!!!!!





Matt Bonner > Kevin Love

ManRam
02-16-2013, 09:58 PM
to answr the op's ? peeps on psd rn't that smart. we cant al conprehen stuffs leik u can. abuncha stupid peeps

rocket
02-16-2013, 10:22 PM
interpid

Jayrich28
02-16-2013, 10:42 PM
Man some of yall are special on here...its not even that big a deal I can spell r and u just like this and u can understand the sentence perfectly clear...either add to the discussion or keep it moving.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2013, 10:47 PM
Man some of yall are special on here...its not even that big a deal I can spell r and u just like this and u can understand the sentence perfectly clear...either add to the discussion or keep it moving.

It has to do with a lot of things. Awards, accolades, stats, dominance amongst your peers, etc. Its just so difficult to judge players in different scenarios many times. Take a guy like Mitch Richmond. I constantly hear he is underrated, but he was always on bad teams, and has 25 total playoff games, and that is where legends are born. So how do we judge a player who unfortunately was just not ever given talent? Versus a player who played for one or more great teams?

Redskins10
02-16-2013, 10:53 PM
Very insightful OP.

OceanSpray
02-16-2013, 11:12 PM
Anyone find this question ironic? Man, grammar check that ****.

Jayrich28
02-16-2013, 11:28 PM
hawk guys like mitch,sprewell,tim hardway,steve smith,tmac,to this point melo will always be behind guys of their peers cuz of lack of playoff success and rings. Yes all are all stars some on decent teams some not but the greats even without the best supporting cast find away to get the best out of what they have...example kg,ai,lbj,pierce,wade,dirk,etc. Those guys took teams of lesser talent not only to respectable records but deep playoff runs and regular playoff apperances. You should see that kg is way above kevin love being twolves fan.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2013, 11:52 PM
hawk guys like mitch,sprewell,tim hardway,steve smith,tmac,to this point melo will always be behind guys of their peers cuz of lack of playoff success and rings. Yes all are all stars some on decent teams some not but the greats even without the best supporting cast find away to get the best out of what they have...example kg,ai,lbj,pierce,wade,dirk,etc. Those guys took teams of lesser talent not only to respectable records but deep playoff runs and regular playoff apperances. You should see that kg is way above kevin love being twolves fan.

That is what I am saying. I can't judge Kevin Love until I see him in the playoffs, and against the best of his peers. You are missing my point.

Jayrich28
02-17-2013, 12:04 AM
Some guys just don't get that oppurtunity....therefore they will always be left out of the top 50 or 75 greatest list. A guy like mitch will never be above clyde,miller,jordan,dumars.

Chuck Taylor
02-17-2013, 12:07 AM
It's possible to determine the GOAT. But it's hard to rank players in any objective way...........it gets confusing and everything is relative.

Jayrich28
02-17-2013, 12:51 AM
It's possible to determine the GOAT. But it's hard to rank players in any objective way...........it gets confusing and everything is relative.

Thats true, theres is no perfect way to rank players just mostly opinions from who's better. I may like hakeem more than shaq...but u may like wilt more than russell.....we go back in forth one weighing more on winning and rings another weighing on individual stats and individual accomplishments.

This thread is just for ppl to share what they use to rank the greats.

Chuck Taylor
02-17-2013, 05:12 AM
I like to rank them as teams. Like, first team and second team and so on. I guess some greats get pushed down that way, but it's a team sport so it only makes sense to rank them this way.

Ebbs
02-17-2013, 05:36 AM
Interprid?

yaswaggin
02-17-2013, 10:34 AM
I think WINS is the one and only important stat and not RINGS for example I hate guys like Monta Ellis Kevin Love and Kyrie Irvin because they put up stats but they don't put up wins.

For me the best player in the NBA right now is Bosh because he is clearly a first option but he sacrifice his game for WINS.

Oh gosh, please don't ever post again

Blitzbolt
02-17-2013, 12:13 PM
Some people can't handle the truth.

PhlyHighPhilly
02-17-2013, 08:13 PM
Thats true, theres is no perfect way to rank players just mostly opinions from who's better. I may like hakeem more than shaq...but u may like wilt more than russell.....we go back in forth one weighing more on winning and rings another weighing on individual stats and individual accomplishments.

This thread is just for ppl to share what they use to rank the greats.

I think this thread is used to make fun of your terrible grammar more than anything else.

Jayrich28
02-18-2013, 12:31 PM
I think this thread is used to make fun of your terrible grammar more than anything else.

Yeah I see that..but I dont care what they talking bout..im doing this from my phone most times so I really could care less

PurpleJesus
02-18-2013, 12:40 PM
I think this thread may be interesting, but I am going to have to invest in the Rosetta Stone to read what the OP said.

TheNumber37
02-18-2013, 12:57 PM
people who don't understand the difference between "there", "they're" "their"?
I don't know

Jayrich28
02-18-2013, 01:03 PM
Im just tired of seeing ppl group role players who were on multiple championship teams, with stars who lead teams to titles.

Horry,kerr,and fisher arent stars or all time greats there is no reason for there names to be brought up when comparing kobe/lbj/magic or mj.

Its insane.

Jayrich28
02-18-2013, 01:06 PM
people who don't understand the difference between "there", "they're" "their"?
I don't know

I can't change the title so it will be that way...do u have anything to add to the thread?

Tony_Starks
02-18-2013, 01:22 PM
Im just tired of seeing ppl group role players who were on multiple championship teams, with stars who lead teams to titles.

Horry,kerr,and fisher arent stars or all time greats there is no reason for there names to be brought up when comparing kobe/lbj/magic or mj.

Its insane.

I feel exactly the same way when I see people use the old "well Horry has 7 rings does that make him better than _____" argument.

It's mind boggling to me that people that claim to know basketball can't understand the difference between winning a chip as the 1-2 best player on the team vs winning as a role player.....

DubbyDubbs
02-18-2013, 01:40 PM
u r cray-z ma mayng. theyre aint nuttin bout dat. :confused:

JiffyMix88
02-18-2013, 01:43 PM
Some people can't handle the truth.

Preach it my brother.

PhlyHighPhilly
02-18-2013, 02:00 PM
Yeah I see that..but I dont care what they talking bout..im doing this from my phone most times so I really could care less

No one is going to take you seriously when you type like that. It's the truth

Swashcuff
02-18-2013, 02:04 PM
Oh gosh, please don't ever post again

I've been telling him that from the very first post I've ever seen him make. He's one of the worst posters on here

3RDASYSTEM
02-18-2013, 02:49 PM
This is only a debate if you feel ZEKE played with better overall team roster talent more so than STOCKTON over they entire career, or like on here, in they 'prime yrs', but I could have sworn media/peers say STOCKTON played same from 1st yr til he retired it seem? so where would his prime be

but based on what I watched from they college to pro(eye test highlights) ZEKE was better individual player


he could put up STOCKTON type numbers assists wise but he could drop 25pts at any time, and I do mean rather it be in a qtr a half or a fullgame, STOCKTON never ever ever came close to having that type of impact scoring wise, and they were both little so defensively I don't see them being game changer but were both gritty and tough as nails, I would also give that edge to ZEKE especially after MALONE gave him like 50 stitches and he still kept attacking or maybe im wrong,my memory sucks now

both damn good players, but no way im giving edge to ZEKE because of ******** 2 rings, hell I credit STOCKTON for going to back to back FINALS,just like I credit KELLY for going to 4straight in NFL...im basing it off game/impact, **** ZEKE beat JORDAN/MAGIC/BIRD all in they PSD PRIME and he was clearly the leader/best player right? or do you count the combo of DUMARS/RODMAN as 1 player? then it would be equal

STOCKTON lost back to back to old man JORDAN right? im not using that as to why ZEKE is better, he just is in my eyes..im giving example to show its all about the game/impact, not the flash(rings)

but if I used the great knowledge science of psd then wouldn't ZEKE be better for beating a 'primed' and I do mean primed JORDAN/MAGIC/BIRD vs oldman3peat JORDAN? I mean damn that's pretty damn impressive if you really put some thought to it


ZEKE was better individually, no brainer

I based a player off they game, just go look at the so called 'greatest' players of alltime and they all did it rookie yr/day1, they all had allnba type impact game or were allnba first yr right out the gate
if your really damn good/HOF, it doesn't take rings to define it..its been showcased on hardwood since WILT in 60's, or is my memory failing me once again?

in my mind WILT/SHAQ/JORDAN/IVERSON/BRON/BIRD/ALCINDOR/BARKLEY/BothMALONES/DR.J/ZEKE/DREAM/DUNCAN/KG on so on didn't and never would need a ring or high PER to justify the impact they had on they initial franchise, it showed really preNBA, film don't lie

Why does BRON need to tie BIRD in rings to show he was 'better' player, greatness equals rings? FISHER/HORRY/KERR greatness is tremendous in that way, they 'game' is ok/so so and KERR is just a spot up shooter, at least FISH/HORRY could put it on floor and attack basket when given chance in young days, how is KERR/FISHER/PURDUE better 6thman who could/should start players such as R.PIERCE/MCKEY/SHCREMPF/TERRY/GINOBILI/CRAWFORD/ODOM? why doesn't the ring carry same weight as these players?

KERR/FISHER helped JORDAN/SHAQ/BRYANT get rings in a major way in some of those rings right?

that's why the ring is straight up ********, it just fits for a certain elite mediahyped type when it should work for every player who is in the NBA right, unless elite play in superNBA than you win, even equal field, to me its about who had biggest impact or who singlehandedly took a team to promise land win or lose? orwho dominated or did things we've never seen before ? who gets JORDAN rules thrown at them? who dominated rookie yr offtop for decade plus? see where im going

3RDASYSTEM
02-18-2013, 02:55 PM
you think ZEKE/DREAM/DROB are equal because of 2 rings each? does winning NBA MVP give edge to DREAM/DROB over ZEKE?

a ring is the very very last thing(if at all) you look at when judging a players game, you can be like KG/TMAC/BRON/AI and carry a squad solo for yrs and be on the same or higher level as another allnba-allstar player who has a sidekick allstar or another equal allnba player to ride with and look better as a team with, doesn't make you better individual player,and factoring in PER/pct is dumb also when a player is carrying a squad solo as opposed to playing with a superteam type squad

just look at JORDAN fro 84-85 on, MAGIC/BIRD/DRJ pretty much won all rings in 80's but to me from eye test JORDAN was better individual player and he wasn't the best because of no dumbass PER or shooting 50pct from field, its because of his game/impact on hardwood via eye test, just my thoughts I could be wrong like usual.

.players weren't thinking about PER back then nor now, even though the NBA(ESPN) is trying its best to bring it all way mainstream with BRON's latest 30ppg 60fgpct run, the PERman's dream such unreal efficiency, its JORDAN/WILT like

like when IVERSON finished runner up to SHAQ in 2000 MVP race, then he beat out DUNCAN/SHAQ following yr to capture MVP ..do you think AI didn't have this game/impact before 2000-01? like when he won ROY in 96-97 season? like at G'TOWN when he avg 25ppg as sophomore? that's what I mean by game/impact, it doesn't take a ring/stats to evaluate a players impact/game, just watch and observe, team talent plays a major role in greatness(rings), individual player brings the game/impact

like for instance KERR can impact a game just like any player can no matter the 'role', but he has to wait for JORDAN to draw a double/triple team or for PIPP to hit him on fastbreak spot up 3, he doesn't have G.HAYWARD type game, hell KERR don't even have KORVER game,he can put it on floor better than KERR,and that aint saying much at all,KERR was who he was from day1 right? just like all these players are, until the greatness(rings) gets involved

if IVERSON can shoot 48pct coming into NBA then im quite sure had he been under a CUBAN/RILEY/P.ALLEN type org. then he would have shot basically that for his NBA career or higher based on surrounding talent, just look at BRON/WADE/BOSH fg pct as a whole together since they got together in 10-11', but silly folk on here talk down on IVERSON because of his low fg pct and volume shooting but never ever took into account that he inherited the allnba talent of MCKIE/SNOW who avg a combined 6ppg coming to PHI and left 40mill$$$(each) richer after balling with AI, but I get it those 6ppg scorers can really shoulder a scoring load, that's why I know people on here don't know **** about bball, based on the fact they mention AI fg pct but not his actual 'core' guys...MCKIE/SNOW, now I see why BRON left CAVS to team up with WADE/BOSH/RILEY instead of staying with MO/ANDERSON, that's basically what AI had in PHI for damn near 11yrs and BRON bailed after 7yrs, big up to BRON and many others in near future

when you have played and followed the game seriously it really becomes too basic, even with the science of PER/WS%, its still pretty basic

its just majority of media top 10 have 'rings'...get it I said 'media' top 10, the same media who pushes the rings agenda

the best don't need rings, we all know the top individual players of alltime to do it,until you mix a backup/bench player with rings,in all of sports for that matter

blastmasta26
02-18-2013, 03:00 PM
Title can be important but there's so much context that has to be taken into account, especially when considering supporting casts.

Mr_Jones
02-18-2013, 03:04 PM
you know ARE and YOU are already pretty short words.. minus well finish writing them out you know?

:clap:

MonroeFAN
02-18-2013, 03:59 PM
This is probably the most confusing issue on psd?

What criteria r we using to rank greatness btw players?

Me and hawkeye had a discussion bout this once.

Its crazy how ppl interpid the rings argument and it goes to players like


Dodge?


Jesus christ what is up with your spelling?

Jayrich28
02-18-2013, 05:20 PM
Dodge?


Jesus christ what is up with your spelling?

Look at this smart guy intrepid is the car see the difference.

Jayrich28
02-18-2013, 05:48 PM
Title can be important but there's so much context that has to be taken into account, especially when considering supporting casts.

Supporting cast looks great when u win...but people make excuses for the players without rings like they didnt have good supporting cast.
Thats why the stars that win I believe have the upper hand. Malone and stockton couldve won rings but they came up short when facing mj and pippen.

IKnowHoops
02-18-2013, 07:39 PM
It has to do with a lot of things. Awards, accolades, stats, dominance amongst your peers, etc. Its just so difficult to judge players in different scenarios many times. Take a guy like Mitch Richmond. I constantly hear he is underrated, but he was always on bad teams, and has 25 total playoff games, and that is where legends are born. So how do we judge a player who unfortunately was just not ever given talent? Versus a player who played for one or more great teams?

I agree with your premise, but I dont agree in this situation. I think Mitch, playing with Tim Hardaway and Chris Mullin, showed that he is a very good player of 2-4 time all star ability, but not a perrenial all star. I think all three of them showed they were very good players on the level of Ray allen/Latrell Sprewell, Reggie Miller, chris Bosh, Lemarcus Aldridge etc. But not the level of D wade, Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, Jordan. I base this off the fact that you had three very talented players but they couldnt get out of the first round. To there credit, they gave Magic and the lakers a great series, but in the end they were B/B+ players going against and A players.

Jayrich28
02-18-2013, 08:30 PM
Exactly the best of the best have these clutch moments that can't be duplicated...lbj had it game six against boston , mj had it against utah flu game, wade had it game 3 against dallas, and magic when kareem went down and he played center. So many others as well those are the intangibles that guys like malone ,c webb,tmac,barkley fail to deliver keeping them from becoming champions. That holds more value than any stat u can pull up.

Jeffy25
02-18-2013, 08:54 PM
This is probably the most confusing issue on psd?

What criteria r we using to rank greatness btw players?

Me and hawkeye had a discussion bout this once.

Its crazy how ppl interpid the rings argument and it goes to players like horry,fisher,kerr,morrison,salley,etc., Being linked in with kobe,mj,lbj,kareem, magic,etc.

I dont think ive seen one person on psd say rings makes that player better period.

Well I told hawkeye during r debate cuz we were comparing isiah and stockton...i said I ranked players as follow

1. R u an allstar
2. career numbers legit
3. Individual awards
4. Rings
5. Intangibles
6. And career moment (plays or games that define ur career)

I though isiah did more overall than stockton he thought otherwise?

So I wanna know psd how do u rank ur players?

I re-read your post four times.

And I still don't understand what you are saying because it's typed like a text message.


Are you saying rings are a call for greatness?

Jayrich28
02-18-2013, 09:27 PM
To jeffy 25 thats cuz it is lol...but what I'm saying is that the rings are just part of the discussions but when ranking the greats ex. Lbj vs kobe that rings hold weight alot. I think guys take for granted how hard it is to win rings and those who can do it are special guys. Then when you add in the fact you can do it with multiple different teammates and win multiple titles on top of that you deserve more recognition than a guy who couldn't win one.

Just up until last yr lbj was a choker now look. But I will add just cuz he has won once he doesnt pass any of those top 10 to 15 guys.

Ill21
02-18-2013, 09:29 PM
The grammar lol

jayjay33
02-18-2013, 09:56 PM
No one's going to take your side if your side proposes an evaluation method that ranks Issiah higher than Stockton.

They should I'd take zeke over Stockton all day long.

Lifted
02-18-2013, 09:59 PM
This thread reminds me of Sammy Davis Jr. on The Cosby Show.
When he couldn't read or write. Solid episode.

Jayrich28
02-18-2013, 10:09 PM
They should I'd take zeke over Stockton all day long.

Your not the only one boss...its a few others in this thread who prefer isiah as well. Nothing against stockton but isiah went toe to toe with the big boys while stockton was in the bleachers.

Jayrich28
02-18-2013, 10:13 PM
This thread reminds me of Sammy Davis Jr. on The Cosby Show.
When he couldn't read or write. Solid episode.

Interesting ive seen many cosby episodes..dont recall this one. Well this thread will be solid as well so thats 2 things in common.

Great input!!!

jayjay33
02-18-2013, 10:13 PM
It's possible to determine the GOAT. But it's hard to rank players in any objective way...........it gets confusing and everything is relative.

Thats true, theres is no perfect way to rank players just mostly opinions from who's better. I may like hakeem more than shaq...but u may like wilt more than russell.....we go back in forth one weighing more on winning and rings another weighing on individual stats and individual accomplishments.

This thread is just for ppl to share what they use to rank the greats.


This is the point. There nothing wrong with factoring in wins or rings because. Their just as good as anything else. I a team sport everything even individual stats are still based of your team. It's to many factors. Having more help can make putting up better numbers easier or it can make it tougher. Technically there is no goat....circumstances play to big a factor either way. The thing some people ignore is that stats are not any better of a judge. There are just to many variables.

samlo144
02-18-2013, 10:14 PM
well Isiah is better than Stockton, he beat all 3 demi-gods of the era twice with a team full of role players (except Dumars). While Stockton had a top 3 PF and a team to perfectly compliment the two of them.
championships signify winning which is the sole purpose of being a professional basketball player so to say championships are a result of who you are surrounded with or who coaches you is overblown.

Bill Russell for example, everyone says he played with 8 or whatever hall of famers, but those players dont become hall of famers if they didnt win as much as they did. As a result Russell becomes underrated and his teammates are overrated by us looking back purely at the stats.

I know everyone here has an obsession with advanced stats and stats in general but there is more to it than that, hence why the draft is such a fine art, hence why trades often take months to happen.

And things like people saying Rodman shouldnt be in the hall of fame because all he did was play defence. Its no surprise that David Robinson had his best year and won MVP when Rodman played next to him (something stats cant tell you), and no surprise a team where Jordan and Pippen are the main offensive threats go 72-10 because of Rodman at the PF.

Winning is the reason basketball players dedicate their lives to this sport, to discredit it all together is just foolish.

Hawkeye15
02-18-2013, 10:16 PM
I agree with your premise, but I dont agree in this situation. I think Mitch, playing with Tim Hardaway and Chris Mullin, showed that he is a very good player of 2-4 time all star ability, but not a perrenial all star. I think all three of them showed they were very good players on the level of Ray allen/Latrell Sprewell, Reggie Miller, chris Bosh, Lemarcus Aldridge etc. But not the level of D wade, Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, Jordan. I base this off the fact that you had three very talented players but they couldnt get out of the first round. To there credit, they gave Magic and the lakers a great series, but in the end they were B/B+ players going against and A players.

Oh I never meant Richmond was on their level at all, I simply named a player who has routinely been a name mentioned as being underrated because he had such minimal to none playoff success.

My evaluation of a players career, I stated. And that is my personal view, I am not going to try and push it on others, I just will call out people who weigh SO heavily on one aspect, while ignoring so many other factors that go into evaluating players.

Hawkeye15
02-18-2013, 10:17 PM
Thomas over Stockton? Haha

Jayrich28
02-18-2013, 10:41 PM
Thomas over Stockton? Haha

I will ride with isiah...i dont know what it is but isiah gets left out when they talk bird,mj,magic. Just because he wasnt buddy buddy with those guys he seems to not get the respect. Lets be real we know he wouldve been on the dream team if it was for that.

Hawkeye15
02-18-2013, 10:44 PM
I will ride with isiah...i dont know what it is but isiah gets left out when they talk bird,mj,magic. Just because he wasnt buddy buddy with those guys he seems to not get the respect. Lets be real we know he wouldve been on the dream team if it was for that.

he should be left out, he has no business being mentioned with them as players.

Jayrich28
02-18-2013, 10:53 PM
he should be left out, he has no business being mentioned with them as players.

Lmao..you said that with conviction. May I ask why so he was just as instrumental to the 80s as they were.

samlo144
02-18-2013, 10:53 PM
Amen Jayrich

Jayrich28
02-18-2013, 11:47 PM
Amen Jayrich

Lol..just good debate going on.

jayjay33
02-19-2013, 02:52 AM
Zeke if you want someone who take over games and win you a championship.

ThaDubs
02-19-2013, 03:03 AM
This is probably the most confusing issue on psd?

What criteria r we using to rank greatness btw players?

Me and hawkeye had a discussion bout this once.

Its crazy how ppl interpid the rings argument and it goes to players like horry,fisher,kerr,morrison,salley,etc., Being linked in with kobe,mj,lbj,kareem, magic,etc.

I dont think ive seen one person on psd say rings makes that player better period.

Well I told hawkeye during r debate cuz we were comparing isiah and stockton...i said I ranked players as follow

1. R u an allstar
2. career numbers legit
3. Individual awards
4. Rings
5. Intangibles
6. And career moment (plays or games that define ur career)

I though isiah did more overall than stockton he thought otherwise?

So I wanna know psd how do u rank ur players?

Is it so dang hard to type out "are" and "you"? :confused:

jerellh528
02-19-2013, 06:02 AM
championships are what everyone is supposed to play for. thats why they are held in high regard which they should.

Jayrich28
02-19-2013, 09:57 AM
championships are what everyone is supposed to play for. thats why they are held in high regard which they should.

You would think so.