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View Full Version : Sources: Raptors Can Accept Bargnani-Boozer Deal Whenever They Choose



LAKobeBryant
02-15-2013, 01:47 PM
The Toronto Raptors were told last week that they can accept the Andrea Bargnani and John Lucas III trade for Carlos Boozer and Nate Robinson from the Chicago Bulls whenever they wanted it, according to league sources.

That deal could take the Bulls below the luxury-tax threshold.

The Bulls would like to avoid paying tax, especially if Derrick Rose is not able to play this season.

http://basketball.******.com/wiretap/226129/Sources-Raptors-Can-Accept-Bargnani-Boozer-Deal-Whenever-They-Choose

Would you do this trade?

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 01:48 PM
Bargnani shouldn't even play in the NBA... He's not worth half of Boozer.

KnickaBocka.44
02-15-2013, 01:49 PM
:pray:

JiffyMix88
02-15-2013, 01:49 PM
So the Bulls are going to trade Carlos when he finally starts to play like Carlos Boozer we signed in 2010?

heyman321
02-15-2013, 01:52 PM
I'd do it. Raptor's new owners are the two biggest TV/phone companies in Canada lmao. They make more money than the luxury tax when they rip me off of my phone and internet bills every year.

Swashcuff
02-15-2013, 01:53 PM
So the Bulls are going to trade Carlos when he finally starts to play like Carlos Boozer we signed in 2010?

:confused:

The Boozer they signed in 2010 would be the best player on that team this season and would get you a consistent/efficient 20 and 10. In terms of production this is his worst year as a member of the Bulls and the worst year of his prime as well. His play has been extremely overrated this season.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
02-15-2013, 01:56 PM
Would be a good trade for the raps I think ... nice looking squad

Jroz
02-15-2013, 01:57 PM
weird, I would have thought the Bulls would have to accept that deal..not the other way around?

bucketss
02-15-2013, 02:01 PM
i'll pass.

Hellcrooner
02-15-2013, 02:02 PM
chicago is nuts?
:crazy:

SlimKid
02-15-2013, 02:03 PM
Outside of the luxury tax issue, which is probably the driving force behind all of this, I don't see the benefit (talent wise) for either team in this deal.

Jays Claw
02-15-2013, 02:03 PM
I would do this trade in a heartbeat if it weren't for the Raps giving up Lucas. I don't think Robinson would fit in well with this group of players.

BHF
02-15-2013, 02:04 PM
i would amnesty Bargs before taking back a bad contract unless they send up the Bobcats pick with Boozer

waveycrockett
02-15-2013, 02:05 PM
The Bulls are actually really smart. They realize with Belinelli and Bargani they could potentially have the Mario Bros. on their hands.

No but seriously Boozer's contract is awful and Taj is better than him makes lots of sense.

DoMeFavors
02-15-2013, 02:06 PM
Next year this would put Raptors in a top 5 seed in the EAST

bears88
02-15-2013, 02:08 PM
i would amnesty Bargs before taking back a bad contract unless they send up the Bobcats pick with Boozer

yea I don't think that will happen, so keep dreaming. Boozer>Barg and adding the bobcats pick is giving up Way to much Barg isn't a superstar so he isn't worth giving up a potential top 5 pick.

beasted86
02-15-2013, 02:09 PM
:confused:

The Boozer they signed in 2010 would be the best player on that team this season and would get you a consistent/efficient 20 and 10. In terms of production this is his worst year as a member of the Bulls and the worst year of his prime as well. His play has been extremely overrated this season.

I agree with you about something for once...:faint:

Lakers + Giants
02-15-2013, 02:10 PM
Bulls getting ready for Dwight :nod:

lmao

Jamiecballer
02-15-2013, 02:12 PM
i guess the bulls are more concerned with their finances than winning this year

jmoney85
02-15-2013, 02:12 PM
are the bulls stupid?

ThePooH_1_
02-15-2013, 02:14 PM
Worst thing after Drose injury as a bulls fan if this happens :facepalm:

waveycrockett
02-15-2013, 02:14 PM
are the bulls stupid?

How are the Bulls stupid? They are paying him Max Money and he isn't even their best PF.

BHF
02-15-2013, 02:18 PM
yea I don't think that will happen, so keep dreaming. Boozer>Barg and adding the bobcats pick is giving up Way to much Barg isn't a superstar so he isn't worth giving up a potential top 5 pick.

keep Boozer we dont want him on the raps anyway we can always amnesty Bargs without taking on that 31 year old and his huge contract

bucketss
02-15-2013, 02:22 PM
keep Boozer we dont want him on the raps anyway we can always amnesty Bargs without taking on that 31 year old and his huge contract

Agreed.

ManRam
02-15-2013, 02:24 PM
The Raptors have already sealed their fate in terms of cap space for the next few season. Why not pay a little extra for a guy who will make you better?

I don't get why they aren't pulling the trigger.

I also, again, don't get why Chicago is so interested. The $4M+ a year in savings must really mean a lot to them.

Amnesty is the best option for both teams, if their owners are OK with eating that much money (not a safe assumption).

beasted86
02-15-2013, 02:27 PM
The Raptors have already sealed their fate in terms of cap space for the next few season. Why not pay a little extra for a guy who will make you better?

I don't get why they aren't pulling the trigger.

I also, again, don't get why Chicago is so interested. The $4M+ a year in savings must really mean a lot to them.

Amnesty is the best option for both teams, if their owners are OK with eating that much money (not a safe assumption).

It's not $4M a year. Probably more like $10M when you deduct what their luxury tax payment would have been, along with the money they would be getting from all the luxury tax teams.

dayman
02-15-2013, 02:28 PM
I'd do this trade if I was Bryan Colangelo. Boozer > Bargs

I can see why Chicago would want Lucas, he's been playing well for that Raps lately and making big shots from behind the arc.

Raidaz4Life
02-15-2013, 02:31 PM
The Raptors have already sealed their fate in terms of cap space for the next few season. Why not pay a little extra for a guy who will make you better?

I don't get why they aren't pulling the trigger.

I also, again, don't get why Chicago is so interested. The $4M+ a year in savings must really mean a lot to them.

Amnesty is the best option for both teams, if their owners are OK with eating that much money (not a safe assumption).

I actually agree with this. Spot on post.

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 02:31 PM
At first I wasn't for this deal.. Now I think it's a no brainer for the raptors. The gay deal means were going all in so boozer for Barg's would def help us out .. Boozers like a 15-9 guy ..

Also I really think Barg's would be good in Chicago beside Noah, and playing for thibs.

gwrighter
02-15-2013, 02:33 PM
Would not do this trade now. Like others have said Raps still have the amnesty and aren't in a rush to trade Bargs. Acquiring boozer would be effectively sealing the fate of the Raps for the next couple seasons. I hope BC waits for the offseason to see how the dust settles in T.O. after the Gay trade.

Also would not want to see JL3 go.

waveycrockett
02-15-2013, 02:34 PM
Imagine Bargs became a good defender under Thibs?? :laugh:

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 02:37 PM
The Raptors have already sealed their fate in terms of cap space for the next few season. Why not pay a little extra for a guy who will make you better?

I don't get why they aren't pulling the trigger.

I also, again, don't get why Chicago is so interested. The $4M+ a year in savings must really mean a lot to them.

Amnesty is the best option for both teams, if their owners are OK with eating that much money (not a safe assumption).

If you think about it the bulls are a defensive team. When rose was playing their main problem was that they didn't have that 2nd go to scorer.. Bargs is capable of putting up 21+ pts as a starter. With a defensive C beside him in Noah, and a coach who can mask his weaknesses on D, it can be a really good fit for Bargs and ultimately for the bulls.

Bargs help D is suspet but his man on man D isn't too bad.. Noah is a good help defender and takes some of that pressure off of Bargs.. Bargs wouldn't have the pressure of being the go to man on the bulls either. He could space the floor for noah to work in the middle and wait for kick outs from rose for nice easy looks. It can work for the bulls. Not like they will miss boozers d ..

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 02:39 PM
Would not do this trade now. Like others have said Raps still have the amnesty and aren't in a rush to trade Bargs. Acquiring boozer would be effectively sealing the fate of the Raps for the next couple seasons. I hope BC waits for the offseason to see how the dust settles in T.O. after the Gay trade.

Also would not want to see JL3 go.

We could trade Barg's for Booz which would really help us out and then amnesty kleiza .. We don't really need him if you think about it ..

JiffyMix88
02-15-2013, 02:39 PM
:confused:

The Boozer they signed in 2010 would be the best player on that team this season and would get you a consistent/efficient 20 and 10. In terms of production this is his worst year as a member of the Bulls and the worst year of his prime as well. His play has been extremely overrated this season.

:confused: He's been playing better than he ever has as a Bulls. His defense has greatly improved and his play with Noah has been splended, which seemed impossible to even begin to say after how they have looked while playing together since he get to Chicago the previous two years.

To say we would have this record without him and his play is ludicrous.

mjt20mik
02-15-2013, 02:40 PM
Smart move for the Bulls IMO. When Kirk comes back, Nate is gonna be on the bench. When Rose comes back Nate becomes a 3rd string. Taj would have a breakout season if Boozer got trader. Bargnani could work with CHI front court, cause both Noah and Luol are good defenders.

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 02:48 PM
Lowry,derozan,gay,boozer,Amir, Ross,Jonas,AA, fields.. That's a pretty good 9 man rotation.. 5th seed in the east next year :shrug:

LeperMessiah
02-15-2013, 02:48 PM
Wouldn't hesitate 2 seconds.

BHF
02-15-2013, 02:50 PM
Lowry,derozan,gay,boozer,Amir, Ross,Jonas,AA, fields.. That's a pretty good 9 man rotation.. 5th seed in the east next year :shrug:

so we can be the Hawks 2.0 for 2 years and than go back to lottery :no:

gwrighter
02-15-2013, 02:54 PM
We could trade Barg's for Booz which would really help us out and then amnesty kleiza .. We don't really need him if you think about it ..

Not against the trade, but not just yet. I wanna see what else plays out in the rest of the NBA this offseason. Where's Dwight going? Sale of the Kings, what about Cousins, Paul Millsap etc.

The reason why I'm not ready to pull the trigger just yet is because once this deal is done, any other moves we make will have to involve one of our core pieces going out.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-15-2013, 02:57 PM
I think the Bulls FO might be realizing their chance to get the best player they can to put next to rose is in 2014 free agency. Not sure who will be available, but they should have about 15-18 in cap space while still having Rose, Noah, Taj, Butler, Teague if this deal were to go through.

mvb815
02-15-2013, 02:58 PM
Raptors don't want boozer, they just want the league to know this so they can get someone better for bargs

Swashcuff
02-15-2013, 02:59 PM
:confused: He's been playing better than he ever has as a Bulls. His defense has greatly improved and his play with Noah has been splended, which seemed impossible to even begin to say after how they have looked while playing together since he get to Chicago the previous two years.

To say we would have this record without him and his play is ludicrous.

Trying more on D doesn't making him better defensively, just means he's trying better.

What evidence do you have of him playing better than ever. I've watch him play and I've gone over the numbers nothing stands out to me as being better than either of his two prior years as a member of the Bulls.

I never said they'd have this record without him, but he isn't making much of a difference. He's the 3rd best player on the team, the Boozer they signed would be the best player on a team missing Derrick Rose.

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 02:59 PM
so we can be the Hawks 2.0 for 2 years and than go back to lottery :no:

the east is weak...

Really there would be like three teams that would be clearly better then us in the east .. we could compete with this roster for a few years. Not saying we would be contenders .. but hey some playoff basketball would be appreciated

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 03:02 PM
Not against the trade, but not just yet. I wanna see what else plays out in the rest of the NBA this offseason. Where's Dwight going? Sale of the Kings, what about Cousins, Paul Millsap etc.

The reason why I'm not ready to pull the trigger just yet is because once this deal is done, any other moves we make will have to involve one of our core pieces going out.

consider the trading chips... Bargs and Lucas the turd aren't going to net us any of those guys you listed bro. those guys would require a combo of picks and our young assets like Jonas or Ross or even both..

I'm thinking after this move B.C pretty much done this season. If we move anyone else it will prolly be the rookies for an impact player but I don't see that happening.

kenzo400
02-15-2013, 03:03 PM
I'm not sure why so many Raptors fans are for this trade. Just because Boozer averages 15ppg and 9rpg doesn't mean he would help us. He would only serve as an over glorified re bounder and inside scoring player. That's where he gets most of his points anyway seeing as how his jump shot has gotten a lot worse since his Utah days.

It would make a lot more sense to have PF that can spread the floor and create space for Derozan and Gay. Boozer doesn't do these things.

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 03:07 PM
I'm not sure why so many Raptors fans are for this trade. Just because Boozer averages 15ppg and 9rpg doesn't mean he would help us. He would only serve as an over glorified re bounder and inside scoring player. That's where he gets most of his points anyway seeing as how his jump shot has gotten a lot worse since his Utah days.

It would make a lot more sense to have PF that can spread the floor and create space for Derozan and Gay. Boozer doesn't do these things.

I dunno that sounds like Bargs to me :shrug:

LeperMessiah
02-15-2013, 03:08 PM
i guess the bulls are more concerned with their finances than winning this year
Maybe because Rose wont play at all?

mbsalame123
02-15-2013, 03:08 PM
I think this is a win win for both teams, now the bulls might receive a setback but look at it.... they have TAJ GIBSON! this guy deserves way more playing time and he will get it with this trade. this trade makes the bulls more versatile with a stretch 4 who can work well with noah, gibson, deng, and rose. they pair bargnani with marco the 2 italians. they will save money similar to the grizzlies trade and they stay competitive.

the raptors become an official playoff contender and a scary team for next year and the rest of the season. they have a trio of lowry, gay, and derrozan which sets up a super athletic team. adding a deep low post presence in boozer will bolster the team and balance everything out and add jonas valenciunas and amir johnson downlow and this is a deep playoff team.

I like it!

MrfadeawayJB
02-15-2013, 03:11 PM
makes no sense for chi but perfect sense for tor

LeperMessiah
02-15-2013, 03:12 PM
I'm not sure why so many Raptors fans are for this trade. Just because Boozer averages 15ppg and 9rpg doesn't mean he would help us. He would only serve as an over glorified re bounder and inside scoring player. That's where he gets most of his points anyway seeing as how his jump shot has gotten a lot worse since his Utah days.

It would make a lot more sense to have PF that can spread the floor and create space for Derozan and Gay. Boozer doesn't do these things.
Surely, he will bring more to this team than bargniani is right now? Especially on the rebounding end...

Not against the trade, but not just yet. I wanna see what else plays out in the rest of the NBA this offseason. Where's Dwight going? Sale of the Kings, what about Cousins, Paul Millsap etc.

The reason why I'm not ready to pull the trigger just yet is because once this deal is done, any other moves we make will have to involve one of our core pieces going out.

That's my worry as well, but do the Raps have a piece that's going to be the over the top talent? Even if Jonas hits his ceiling in a few years I don't see it being superstar status- not saying he won't be good, he just wont be a KD or a LBJ tier of talent.

ManRam
02-15-2013, 03:13 PM
Raptors don't want boozer, they just want the league to know this so they can get someone better for bargs

The idea that they can get something better than Boozer is kinda funny.

Bargs has a terrible contract and isn't a great player. The Bulls are only willing to trade Boozer because his contract is more terrible. Bargs is NOT a coveted commodity. It's just both these guys are so untradable that they can't really be traded for anyone but guys like themselves.

LeperMessiah
02-15-2013, 03:14 PM
Trying more on D doesn't making him better defensively, just means he's trying better.

What evidence do you have of him playing better than ever. I've watch him play and I've gone over the numbers nothing stands out to me as being better than either of his two prior years as a member of the Bulls.

I never said they'd have this record without him, but he isn't making much of a difference. He's the 3rd best player on the team, the Boozer they signed would be the best player on a team missing Derrick Rose.

It does since defense relies largely on Effort.

D-Leethal
02-15-2013, 03:14 PM
Not sure how Bargs would fit in with that rugged mentality in Chicago. It hurts there rebounding which is biggest strength. I guess Gibson would start and Bargs would be 6th man? Gibson is at the point where he needs to expand his role so I guess it makes sense.

Funny everyone says Bargs sucks, he always looks great when Amare is guarding him. I thought he was still pretty good :facepalm:

LeperMessiah
02-15-2013, 03:15 PM
^^His man-to-man is pretty good, it's his help defense and inability to use his size to drive.

D-Leethal
02-15-2013, 03:18 PM
It does since defense relies largely on Effort.

One of the most overused cliche's there is. Effort is about 1/10th of great defense. There are many aspects to D. You can be a top notch lockdown 1 on 1 defender but suck at getting thru screens and constantly get lost in rotations (Iman Shumpert). You can be a great shot blocker but have zero defensive awareness and can't guard face up bigs at all (STAT).

Defense isn't something your either good or bad at. You can be great at one aspect and suck at others. Its like Novak being the best 3 point shooter in the league but he still sucks when you judge his offense as a whole.

Constant effort isn't making anyone a great defender unless they have defensive awareness and well rounded skills to go with it. What good is effort if your slow as **** laterally and can't stay in front of anyone? What good is effort if your a skinny little ***** and get bullied in the post? What good is effort if you have horrible peripheral vision and have trouble seeing the ball and seeing your man simultaneously?

thunderforce
02-15-2013, 03:20 PM
I would be for this trade as long as it does not hurt us from resigning Lowry .

LAKobeBryant
02-15-2013, 03:21 PM
Why does Lucas and Nate need to be in the deal.

pebloemer
02-15-2013, 03:24 PM
I still really like this deal for Toronto as long as there isn't more to it than what is being reported. If someone like Ross is required to go the other way it would be a different story. Bringing in Boozer's size and ability to score down low would be a huge assistance to this group. We are already pretty much nullified from operating under the cap, so trades like this are the primary avenue to get better. Unless Toronto wants to stay under the tax and thinks they can lure a big FA via Sign and Trade, this is a good deal for us.

Tmath
02-15-2013, 03:24 PM
I don't see the Raptors doing this. Lowry is due for an extension after next season. If they trade for Boozer they won't be able to.

The Raptors will either be looking for expiring's or players with 2 years left on their contract instead of 3 like Boozer.

koreancabbage
02-15-2013, 03:27 PM
One of the most overused cliche's there is. Effort is about 1/10th of great defense. There are many aspects to D. You can be a top notch lockdown 1 on 1 defender but suck at getting thru screens and constantly get lost in rotations (Iman Shumpert). You can be a great shot blocker but have zero defensive awareness and can't guard face up bigs at all (STAT).

Defense isn't something your either good or bad at. You can be great at one aspect and suck at others. Its like Novak being the best 3 point shooter in the league but he still sucks when you judge his offense as a whole.

Constant effort isn't making anyone a great defender unless they have defensive awareness and well rounded skills to go with it. What good is effort if your slow as **** laterally and can't stay in front of anyone? What good is effort if your a skinny little ***** and get bullied in the post? What good is effort if you have horrible peripheral vision and have trouble seeing the ball and seeing your man simultaneously?

you are right on some extent but when it comes down to it, its effort. its not overrated or overused or a cliche.

You might have all the skills and talent in the world but if you don't put any effort in your defense, you will never be a good defensive player. plain and simple. having good defensive instincts, skills and talent does not mean you are good at defence.

LeperMessiah
02-15-2013, 03:27 PM
One of the most overused cliche's there is. Effort is about 1/10th of great defense. There are many aspects to D. You can be a top notch lockdown 1 on 1 defender but suck at getting thru screens and constantly get lost in rotations (Iman Shumpert). You can be a great shot blocker but have zero defensive awareness and can't guard face up bigs at all (STAT).

Defense isn't something your either good or bad at. You can be great at one aspect and suck at others. Its like Novak being the best 3 point shooter in the league but he still sucks when you judge his offense as a whole.

Constant effort isn't making anyone a great defender unless they have defensive awareness and well rounded skills to go with it. What good is effort if your slow as **** laterally and can't stay in front of anyone? What good is effort if your a skinny little ***** and get bullied in the post? What good is effort if you have horrible peripheral vision and have trouble seeing the ball and seeing your man simultaneously?

Lot of what you are saying is dependent on effort, because at the end of it long as you're able to contest the potential shot your effort has to be there. Guys like Ed Davis, who is an undersized PF, use to get bullied around in his rookie year- still pretty undersized in his second year but his defense has improved because I see him contesting shots.

koreancabbage
02-15-2013, 03:29 PM
I don't see the Raptors doing this. Lowry is due for an extension after next season. If they trade for Boozer they won't be able to.

The Raptors will either be looking for expiring's or players with 2 years left on their contract instead of 3 like Boozer.

they could and they could offer him what he is worth. obviously it would take them over the tax threshold but if you look at it the other way, they can't sign anyone in free agency (if salaries hold up) more than the veterans min (or MLE if it hasn't been used yet)

Raps18-19 Champ
02-15-2013, 03:31 PM
:shrug:

I don't really care either way. I'd prefer to have Bargnani though and trade him offseason.

koreancabbage
02-15-2013, 03:33 PM
:shrug:

I don't really care either way. I'd prefer to have Bargnani though and trade him offseason.

sign and trade for Millsap?

GodsSon
02-15-2013, 03:33 PM
Bulls need to throw in a pick to offset the money they save.

Stunner
02-15-2013, 03:35 PM
As a Bulls fan ill do this deal for salary reason and the potential of Bargs with Thibs and him next to Noah . I wouldnt do this deal if Vinny Del Negro is our coach . Plus Raps get to use their Anensty on another player .

Bob_at_york
02-15-2013, 03:35 PM
Why does Lucas and Nate need to be in the deal.

Because the Bulls are big fans of Lucas. He played well for them last year.

Silent
02-15-2013, 03:39 PM
Bulls need to throw in a pick to offset the money they save.

Your getting the better player i don't see the point of doing that

koreancabbage
02-15-2013, 03:40 PM
Your getting the better player i don't see the point of doing that

isn't that 99% the case?

what has history taught us? its not all about talent, its about money.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-15-2013, 03:43 PM
sign and trade for Millsap?

Bargnani for Millsap will never happen unless we add some young talent. They can do so much better than Bargnani alone.

Ray_R
02-15-2013, 03:51 PM
Why does Lucas and Nate need to be in the deal.

Because the Bulls are big fans of Lucas. He played well for them last year.**** no. you canhave him. I'm sure he has incriminating photos of some one in the bulls organization to keep coming back.

koreancabbage
02-15-2013, 03:52 PM
Bargnani for Millsap will never happen unless we add some young talent. They can do so much better than Bargnani alone.

i'm willing to go Bargnani + 1st (if we don't make the playoffs and OKC gets ours) for Millsap.

Uncbball234
02-15-2013, 03:54 PM
Bulls need to throw in a pick to offset the money they save.

No

Uncbball234
02-15-2013, 03:55 PM
Because the Bulls are big fans of Lucas. He played well for them last year.

Your kidding right?

chong2204
02-15-2013, 04:05 PM
Everyone knows Lil Nate is the type of guy that pushes a team over the top.

mjt20mik
02-15-2013, 04:16 PM
I'd pass on taking a terrible contract for an underachieving, past prime, undersized 4. I'd stick with Bargnani's 10 mill.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-15-2013, 04:18 PM
i'm willing to go Bargnani + 1st (if we don't make the playoffs and OKC gets ours) for Millsap.

Jazz can probably do better than an overpaid stretch 4 and a mid teen pick.

Sadds The Gr8
02-15-2013, 04:21 PM
I'd pass on taking a terrible contract for an underachieving, past prime, undersized 4. I'd stick with Bargnani's 10 mill.

Bargnani's underachieving, and might as well be considered undersized with the way he plays

Bob_at_york
02-15-2013, 04:24 PM
Your kidding right?

no. I have read a couple articles this year about how Bulls management wants him back and I thought he did a good job for a 3rd PG.

heyman321
02-15-2013, 04:29 PM
^^His man-to-man is pretty good, it's his help defense and inability to use his size to drive.

Why does everyone on Raptors forum say this??? His man to man is terrible as well. I've been watching Bargnani since he was drafted. His D is just overall bad. Show me some video of this.

Bob_at_york
02-15-2013, 04:33 PM
Why does everyone on Raptors forum say this??? His man to man is terrible as well. I've been watching Bargnani since he was drafted. His D is just overall bad. Show me some video of this.

Visit the raptors forum. Someone will show you the stats.

LeperMessiah
02-15-2013, 04:33 PM
Why does everyone on Raptors forum say this??? His man to man is terrible as well. I've been watching Bargnani since he was drafted. His D is just overall bad. Show me some video of this.

I'm speaking in his ability to contest shots. I regularly watch him at least put the effort there. I saw this against KG and Amare especially, for recent games.

Uncbball234
02-15-2013, 04:35 PM
The Bulls need to get more out of this

mjt20mik
02-15-2013, 04:37 PM
Bargnani's underachieving, and might as well be considered undersized with the way he plays

I'd rather just get a midteen pick for him then take on an expensive contract of a past-his-prime player.

North Yorker
02-15-2013, 04:40 PM
Why does everyone on Raptors forum say this??? His man to man is terrible as well. I've been watching Bargnani since he was drafted. His D is just overall bad. Show me some video of this.

He is by far our best post defender on our team this year, and no it isnt close. His synergy stats confirm this and it's quite evident if you watch any Raps games.

LeperMessiah
02-15-2013, 04:41 PM
I'd rather just get a midteen pick for him then take on an expensive contract of a past-his-prime player.

But you're really getting more or less the same player, at least right now you can say in the overall aspect of his position- Boozer can do more than Bargs.

C_Mund
02-15-2013, 04:45 PM
so we can be the Hawks 2.0 for 2 years and than go back to lottery :no:

...or be in the middle of the lottery with poor or no picks? Nah, I'd rather see us try to get to the second round than blow it up. Our fate is sealed as a middle-of-the pack team for a couple years so why not enjoy what could be the best ball we've played since the VC era?

D-Leethal
02-15-2013, 04:49 PM
He is by far our best post defender on our team this year, and no it isnt close. His synergy stats confirm this and it's quite evident if you watch any Raps games.

Honestly, STAT has been dominating opposing bench C's in the post and Bargs gave him fits. Forced him into some ugly airballs and blocked him multiple times.

But why don't the Bulls just amnesty Boozer and free up some cap if this year is going to be a waste anyway without Rose? Why replace one horrible contract with another for an underachieving big? Who else will they be able to use the amnesty on if they don't with Boozer? It had to be a contract signed pre-lockout to be amnesty-eligible.

North Yorker
02-15-2013, 04:56 PM
Honestly, STAT has been dominating opposing bench C's in the post and Bargs gave him fits. Forced him into some ugly airballs and blocked him multiple times.

But why don't the Bulls just amnesty Boozer and free up some cap if this year is going to be a waste anyway without Rose? Why replace one horrible contract with another for an underachieving big? Who else will they be able to use the amnesty on if they don't with Boozer? It had to be a contract signed pre-lockout to be amnesty-eligible.

Bulls owner doesnt want to pay Boozer $15M/yr to not play.

TheNumber37
02-15-2013, 05:15 PM
the bulls should consider it.

Bargs gives them a nice stretch 4 they've been missing.
boozer has been great and maybe that's a reason to consider moving him because his value won't be higher and the savings won't be greater...

they should try to pry someone else from the raptors or get a third team involved to acquire another mobile big in the paint. free up a roster spot to get Kmart or amundson. that would be a steal.

mjt20mik
02-15-2013, 05:17 PM
the bulls should consider it.

Bargs gives them a nice stretch 4 they've been missing.
boozer has been great and maybe that's a reason to consider moving him because his value won't be higher and the savings won't be greater...

they should try to pry someone else from the raptors or get a third team involved to acquire another mobile big in the paint. free up a roster spot to get Kmart or amundson. that would be a steal.

The Bulls want it. They are waiting for the Raptors to pull the trigger.

JasonJohnHorn
02-15-2013, 05:32 PM
The Bulls are one of the most profitable teams in the league. Behind LAL and NY, I don't think there is a team that makes more money. Why would they make a trade like this that makes them worse just to pay less. If they do this, then they are clearly NOT interested in contending and they will have a hard time keeping Rose when he hits free agency.


The Raptors would he stupid not to take this trade. This move makes them better immediately. With Big-V and Lowry and Gay, with DeRozen, they would actually have a quality starting line-up. And though Nate Robinson does give up a lot of size, he's good for big nights off the bench that help a team win 4 or 5 games a season.

I can't believe the bulls are that concerned about money. They let Asik walk, and Krover. If they trade Boozer for financial reasons, they will find that Deng Noah and Rose are not enough to win a title, and when Rose hits free agency he is going to leave.


A team like the Bulls, that has the finances to pay quality players but doesn't, doesn't deserve to win. I feel bad for the fans.

kenzo400
02-15-2013, 05:34 PM
I dunno that sounds like Bargs to me :shrug:

There are other good versatile PF's. Ilyasova could be a good fit.

R. Johnson#3
02-15-2013, 05:37 PM
I'm gonna come out and say it.

I don't give 2 ***** about the luxury tax. If we can turn Bargnani into Boozer then for the love of God, PULL THE TRIGGER!

GodsSon
02-15-2013, 05:39 PM
No

$10+ mil in savings over the course of two years is worth a pick.

bears88
02-15-2013, 05:55 PM
The Bulls are one of the most profitable teams in the league. Behind LAL and NY, I don't think there is a team that makes more money. Why would they make a trade like this that makes them worse just to pay less. If they do this, then they are clearly NOT interested in contending and they will have a hard time keeping Rose when he hits free agency.


The Raptors would he stupid not to take this trade. This move makes them better immediately. With Big-V and Lowry and Gay, with DeRozen, they would actually have a quality starting line-up. And though Nate Robinson does give up a lot of size, he's good for big nights off the bench that help a team win 4 or 5 games a season.

I can't believe the bulls are that concerned about money. They let Asik walk, and Krover. If they trade Boozer for financial reasons, they will find that Deng Noah and Rose are not enough to win a title, and when Rose hits free agency he is going to leave.


A team like the Bulls, that has the finances to pay quality players but doesn't, doesn't deserve to win. I feel bad for the fans.

Rose did sign an extension.

ecorrea
02-15-2013, 05:56 PM
The Raptors have already sealed their fate in terms of cap space for the next few season. Why not pay a little extra for a guy who will make you better?

I don't get why they aren't pulling the trigger.

I also, again, don't get why Chicago is so interested. The $4M+ a year in savings must really mean a lot to them.
Amnesty is the best option for both teams, if their owners are OK with eating that much money (not a safe assumption).

i was also thinking about this and then realized that the $4m might be for signing bellenelli. that plus getting under the luxury plus getting taj more minutes would make sense to me.

Yunqn
02-15-2013, 06:26 PM
Bargnani shouldn't even play in the NBA... He's not worth half of Boozer.

Yes he is .. And yes he can..

How can you ask a guy to rebound and defend if they never preached it to him? Yes hes bad but u do know that boozer isnt any different? .. please stop with the excuses.. The bulls should make the trade because its easier to trade barg with his contract and ability later on .. They will probably never amnesty anyone unless theyre a cancerous/untradeable player..

The whole purpose is to get below the tax and boozer was never a superior player in chicago so therefore yes trade him.. This trade has the domino effect written all over it..

As proven thibs can change a player on defense.. And barg in a high chemistry & supportive locker room like chicago may reinvent himself.. Then later giving us ammo to trade him..

DITKA4GOV
02-15-2013, 06:31 PM
The Bulls are one of the most profitable teams in the league. Behind LAL and NY, I don't think there is a team that makes more money. Why would they make a trade like this that makes them worse just to pay less. If they do this, then they are clearly NOT interested in contending and they will have a hard time keeping Rose when he hits free agency.


The Raptors would he stupid not to take this trade. This move makes them better immediately. With Big-V and Lowry and Gay, with DeRozen, they would actually have a quality starting line-up. And though Nate Robinson does give up a lot of size, he's good for big nights off the bench that help a team win 4 or 5 games a season.

I can't believe the bulls are that concerned about money. They let Asik walk, and Krover. If they trade Boozer for financial reasons, they will find that Deng Noah and Rose are not enough to win a title, and when Rose hits free agency he is going to leave.


A team like the Bulls, that has the finances to pay quality players but doesn't, doesn't deserve to win. I feel bad for the fans.

Rose is from Chicago, even has the skyline tattooed on his hand. Doubt he leaves Chicago. The Bulls are getting ready to attack 2014 free agency. Not to mention the Bobcats pick and Mirotic are on deck. I read if Mirotic came out this year and was drafted, he'd be top 3 at least. I don't see Rose leaving Chicago because Bulls are planning for NEAR-future. It would take a major blow up for Rose to want to leave. His interviews are him just carrying on about how much he loves Chicago.

I go back and forth on this trade. I know winning this year would be miracle even with (if) Rose coming back. I have not seen enough of Bargnani to feel confident giving up Boozer. I know he hasn't been worth his contract, but has played well this year, in my opinion. Stats wise I cant prove that, but he has had a ton of double-doubles this year and does appear to be rotating slightly better on defense. This is all eye-test thou, and I rarely miss a game. I don't like giving up Nate. I think he brings a lot to this team, and has had an effect positively in our record.

DubbyDubbs
02-15-2013, 06:38 PM
Yes he is .. And yes he can..

How can you ask a guy to rebound and defend if they never preached it to him? Yes hes bad but u do know that boozer isnt any different? .. please stop with the excuses.. The bulls should make the trade because its easier to trade barg with his contract and ability later on .. They will probably never amnesty anyone unless theyre a cancerous/untradeable player..

The whole purpose is to get below the tax and boozer was never a superior player in chicago so therefore yes trade him.. This trade has the domino effect written all over it..

As proven thibs can change a player on defense.. And barg in a high chemistry & supportive locker room like chicago may reinvent himself.. Then later giving us ammo to trade him..

No . Being in a locker room with the dream team would not reinvent bargnani to the point where he would average more than 7 rbs a game

akesh99
02-15-2013, 07:02 PM
Im hard pressed to think of a situation better for Bargs than playing between two defensive/rebounding studs in Noah and Deng. He could really shine as a part of the Bulls and they know it. The fact that they save money in addition to adding Bargs' skill set is really the cherry on top. Im sure BC knows this and thats why I think he's waiting them out to add the Cats pick in the deal.

monzternipz12
02-15-2013, 07:02 PM
Just do it. This season is at a loss already with or without Rose. Mind as well start saving up $$ for next season with a healthy Rose. There's no way we're getting passed the thunder or heat this year. Plus, I'm tired of hearing boozer yell after he does something good or bad.

fin_frenzy_84
02-15-2013, 07:34 PM
Dont believe it, Bulls would be getting raped in that trade.

BHF
02-15-2013, 07:39 PM
...or be in the middle of the lottery with poor or no picks? Nah, I'd rather see us try to get to the second round than blow it up. Our fate is sealed as a middle-of-the pack team for a couple years so why not enjoy what could be the best ball we've played since the VC era?

because this would happen if we dont sign Boozer right?

justinnum1
02-15-2013, 07:40 PM
Bulls owner is so cheap.

This also tells me they dont think they can win a championship with the roster as is even if rose was 100%.

ramsizzle
02-15-2013, 07:42 PM
because this would happen if we dont sign Boozer right?

Boozer is leading the east in double doubles on a team firmly in the playoffs. No you wouldn't be a lottery team. You'd have the most successful big man your franchise has ever had.

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 07:58 PM
because this would happen if we dont sign Boozer right?

its where we have been over the last 4 seasons.

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 07:59 PM
Boozer is leading the east in double doubles on a team firmly in the playoffs. No you wouldn't be a lottery team. You'd have the most successful big man your franchise has ever had.

id argue that bosh is the better over all player. so i dont know about boozer being the most successful big man our franchise has ever had.

ramsizzle
02-15-2013, 08:08 PM
Boozer has always played in the playoffs. Bosh once. Their numbers being very close I'd say boozer was more successful.

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 08:14 PM
Boozer has always played in the playoffs. Bosh once. Their numbers being very close I'd say boozer was more successful.

bosh has only been to they playoffs once :confused: whatchu talking bout mang.

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 08:17 PM
Boozer has always played in the playoffs. Bosh once. Their numbers being very close I'd say boozer was more successful.

bosh has been and is a better all around player then boozer.. this is coming from a non bosh fan. i cant stand the guy.

i dont know what you mean when saying bosh has been the playoffs once ?

if your saying boozer is the best big man the raps would have since bosh, then id agree with you.

ramsizzle
02-15-2013, 08:23 PM
Yeah on the raptors. Unless I'm mistaken n ill own up if I am. Rators fans watched bosh every game of course you like him more... Bosh a point better for the career and boozer the better rebounder and passer. It's negligible at best so I'd take the guy who had been there all the time

king4day
02-15-2013, 08:34 PM
What the **** are the Raps waiting for?

Legitimate
02-15-2013, 09:13 PM
What the **** are the Raps waiting for?

We need Bargnani's size and shooting range on this team. To be honest, I wouldn't mind trading Bargs just for a salary dump so we can sign someone in the offseason, or we can just amnesty him. Boozer or not we still might make the playoffs and next year we will for sure make the playoffs. Don't care about being a contender or not just want my team to get into the playoffs so we can have some fun.

Bulls_fan90
02-15-2013, 09:54 PM
If the Bulls do this I'm done with them. Cheap *** mother****ers.

kozelkid
02-15-2013, 10:00 PM
If the Bulls do this I'm done with them. Cheap *** mother****ers.

While I agree that Jerry sucks, it's not near the downgrade that you think and has more potential along with it.

Furthermore, if Rose can't play this season, it's a trade that is VERY good for the future. I say this as someone who hates Jerry as much as the next guy, but this isn't necessarily a move that would make me irate.

Vancity
02-15-2013, 10:00 PM
Yeah on the raptors. Unless I'm mistaken n ill own up if I am. Rators fans watched bosh every game of course you like him more... Bosh a point better for the career and boozer the better rebounder and passer. It's negligible at best so I'd take the guy who had been there all the time

WTF are you talking about?

3 pts more, same asts, same rebs, best defender..

I don;t even like Bosh and i'm not that blind.

Bulls_fan90
02-15-2013, 10:08 PM
While I agree that Jerry sucks, it's not near the downgrade that you think and has more potential along with it.

Furthermore, if Rose can't play this season, it's a trade that is VERY good for the future. I say this as someone who hates Jerry as much as the next guy, but this isn't necessarily a move that would make me irate.

Might have been a slight overreaction but I'm really not a fan of this trade. At least Noah will put up incredible rebounding numbers playing next to him :sigh:

kozelkid
02-15-2013, 10:10 PM
Might have been a slight overreaction but I'm really not a fan of this trade. At least Noah will put up incredible rebounding numbers playing next to him :sigh:

I understand the anger from the sense that it's partially an obvious move from the standpoint of avoiding the luxury tax, but from a basketball standpoint and ability to make maneuvers in the future, it has its benefits.

For me, letting Asik go was ultimately what pisses me off with JR.

Bulls_fan90
02-15-2013, 10:20 PM
I understand the anger from the sense that it's partially an obvious move from the standpoint of avoiding the luxury tax, but from a basketball standpoint and ability to make maneuvers in the future, it has its benefits.

For me, letting Asik go was ultimately what pisses me off with JR.
One of the worst mistakes the Bulls as a franchise have made. When moves are made strictly based on JR and his financial restraints he has placed on this franchise it really makes me irate. It's one thing to make a smart business move and keep financial flexibility going forward. It is another to be a cheap owner...

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 10:37 PM
Boozer has always played in the playoffs. Bosh once. Their numbers being very close I'd say boozer was more successful.

I just told you that i am not a bosh fan.

Im not even looking at numbers or stats. im just telling you from what ive seen from them both playing over the years. bosh is the better overall player and its obvious. im not saying anything most people dont know around here my man.

More-Than-Most
02-15-2013, 10:44 PM
lol why do this if your the bulls?

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 11:06 PM
What the **** are the Raps waiting for?

good question... my bet is B.C is hesitant to commit to another huge contract.


Might have been a slight overreaction but I'm really not a fan of this trade. At least Noah will put up incredible rebounding numbers playing next to him :sigh:

honestly if you think about it bargnani will provide more scoring for you then boozer. also bargs stretches the floor, and the paint opens up for noah to work... you have two strong rebounders at the 3 & 5. My guess is rebounding is not an area of need for you guys.

bargs is cheaper also and perhaps will give your team flexability to make additional moves when rose does come back at full speed next season. also taj gibson has shown he is ready for a bigger role and this move will give him that opportunity.

I honestly dont think its that bad for the bulls. infact i think thibs can mask bargs rebounding weakness and make him look like a stud on the offensive end.

smith&wesson
02-15-2013, 11:07 PM
lol why do this if your the bulls?

to shed a 31 year old's huge contract and save money im guessing.

Cracka2HI!
02-16-2013, 02:28 AM
I think this trade kinda makes sense. Toronto seems to be trying to add bigger names and Boozer is playing great. The Bulls may know Rose isn't coming back this season and think Bargnani is an upgrade over Boozer in the future. When you hear about rumors like this it reminds us how little rumors mean and how off the general fan on the internet can be about trade rumors. On this site this trade makes no sense, but GM's probably don't see Bargnani as poorly as internet fans do.

OceanSpray
02-16-2013, 03:08 AM
Bargnani actually fits well with the Bulls. The question is if he can get healthy though.

He can't rebound.. Average three point shooter. Terrible defense.

Him and Noah sounds good but I'm not sure if it's worth the trade.