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el hidalgo
02-15-2013, 04:09 AM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8949448/michael-jordan-pick-kobe-bryant-lebron-james
the true goat has spoken. let the lebronze sack slurpers go back to their homes and quit talking shenanigans, crowning lebrick better than kobe. the GOAT of basketball would take kobe over lebron. that speaks volume of kobe and his ability to change the game. he just has this killer instinct that lebron doesn't posses. the guy just has the will to win.

hopefully this puts those laughable lecrap > kobe comments to rest for a few seasons.

Sadds The Gr8
02-15-2013, 04:10 AM
take it with a grain of salt...he runs the crappiest team in the league.

LakersIn5
02-15-2013, 04:26 AM
jordan took kwame over 59 others

More-Than-Most
02-15-2013, 04:30 AM
He knows Kobe has no shot of passing him.... He choose him for that reason. Jordan is a bit of a dick to be honest and will be looking up at James before all is said and done. James will be the best player ever...He is already more unguardable than Jordan.

DumDum
02-15-2013, 04:33 AM
How can jordan not pick his seed :rolleyes:

sunsfan88
02-15-2013, 04:35 AM
The GOAT took Kobe over LeBron so that means Kobe is better than LeBron?

The GOAT also took Kwame over everyone else in a draft that must mean that Kwame is better than everyone else in that draft right?

MJ may be GOAT but there's no worse talent evaluator than him in terms of top 20 players who are either HCs or FO management. No wonder his son sucked.

jmeeks42
02-15-2013, 04:36 AM
So Jordan is basing this on rings? I want to see Jordan admit that Robert Horry is better than him because Robert Horry has 7 rings and MJ only has 6.

Minimal
02-15-2013, 07:42 AM
jordan took kwame over 59 others
Haha good one.

Jordan is a dick. It looks like he is afraid LeBron might take the throne of the GOAT from him (Kobe won't obviuosly), thats why he makes such a stupid comments.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-15-2013, 07:51 AM
He knows Kobe has no shot of passing him.... He choose him for that reason. Jordan is a bit of a dick to be honest and will be looking up at James before all is said and done. James will be the best player ever...He is already more unguardable than Jordan.

12 year old right!?

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-15-2013, 07:51 AM
Lebron fans mad haha

Dade County
02-15-2013, 08:35 AM
Wouldn't it have been better if Jordan would have said, Kobe has two finals Mvp's, because for Jordan to say he got 5 rings, doesn't really mean anything, because 3 of those are Shaq Finals Mvp's.

Thats like Jordan saying, Horry has 7 rings, his money.

Everyone celebrates Jordan because he won 6 championships & 6 Finals Mvp's... Everyone always word it just like that, so why not the same for Kobe.

Put Wade or Lbj Next to prime Shaq, Jordan would be saying right not.... Well Wade/Lbj has 7 rings, so I would pick them.

(Note: I am not a Lbj fan.... I am a HEAT fan)

cubbiefan_est88
02-15-2013, 08:40 AM
Maybe he knows about lebrons HGH use? Lol

cuttydoesit6
02-15-2013, 08:41 AM
He knows Kobe has no shot of passing him.... He choose him for that reason. Jordan is a bit of a dick to be honest and will be looking up at James before all is said and done. James will be the best player ever...He is already more unguardable than Jordan.

lmfao no ****ing way my dude...

Jordan over lbj...and its not even close... sorry lol

LongIslandIcedZ
02-15-2013, 08:49 AM
This guy also runs the Bobcats.

But, there is little doubt in my mind that he respects Kobe more than Lebron. Not that he is more deserving or anything, but I think if you ask MJ who he has more respect for, he'll say Kobe every time.

But Lebron has had a few years now that Kobe has never had.

Big Zo
02-15-2013, 09:05 AM
MJ be scurred.

Jahari Kavi
02-15-2013, 09:10 AM
He knows Kobe has no shot of passing him.... He choose him for that reason. Jordan is a bit of a dick to be honest and will be looking up at James before all is said and done. James will be the best player ever...He is already more unguardable than Jordan.

dude you read my mind...I said the same exact thing when I heard the comments...Jordan knows that Lebron can surpass him.....his ego would never let him admit it though....

boateng
02-15-2013, 09:12 AM
This guy also runs the Bobcats.

But, there is little doubt in my mind that he respects Kobe more than Lebron. Not that he is more deserving or anything, but I think if you ask MJ who he has more respect for, he'll say Kobe every time.

But Lebron has had a few years now that Kobe has never had.

I don't see why people are upset?

He is entitled to his opinion the same way Lebron & Kobe fans on here argue till dawn about who is better/

I do agree with the respect thing though. He seems to not be a huge Lebron fan? Even before he joined the heat he was moaning about players getting sponsorships deals and i think he was referring to Lebron,.

boateng
02-15-2013, 09:13 AM
dude you read my mind...I said the same exact thing when I heard the comments...Jordan knows that Lebron can surpass him.....his ego would never let him admit it though....

Lebon cannot surpress him. Even if Lebron wins 7 rings, he doesn't have the same impact as Jordan.
I am from the UK and in all the sports shops you see Jordan Jersey's even though he has retired! Marketing or not, that proves how much of an impact he has had on basketball and sport/
Even Kobe is more popular than Lebron. Jordan influence on Sport will never be replicated/

NYJ - NYY
02-15-2013, 09:31 AM
Mj is goat but he's an ignorant prick Kobe is one of the all time greats but. Lebron will pass both

Jahari Kavi
02-15-2013, 09:33 AM
Lebon cannot surpress him. Even if Lebron wins 7 rings, he doesn't have the same impact as Jordan.
I am from the UK and in all the sports shops you see Jordan Jersey's even though he has retired! Marketing or not, that proves how much of an impact he has had on basketball and sport/
Even Kobe is more popular than Lebron. Jordan influence on Sport will never be replicated/

being a better player has nothing to do with popularity.....charles barkley was more "popular" than Tim Duncan, but Duncan is a better player.......

Jahari Kavi
02-15-2013, 09:34 AM
from a pure talent level I've never seen anything like Lebron.....

waveycrockett
02-15-2013, 09:49 AM
Jordan has been in charge of the Bobcats and Wizards. He has no idea what he's talking about.

Bartlee23
02-15-2013, 09:51 AM
The whole argument about who has more championships is a stupid argument but judging Jordan's opinion off of how a franchise drafted a player is stupid too. Jordan had coaches and scouts who told him this is the guy. I agree his track record drafting has not been great but those are franchise decisions not individual. Kobe's career has been better than LeBron's to date in so many more ways than championships. Can they be passed? Absolutely but with the exception of obvious LeBron and Heat fans I would think people would have to say to date Kobe has had the better career.

BigCityofDreams
02-15-2013, 09:54 AM
I don't see why people are upset?

He is entitled to his opinion the same way Lebron & Kobe fans on here argue till dawn about who is better/

I do agree with the respect thing though. He seems to not be a huge Lebron fan? Even before he joined the heat he was moaning about players getting sponsorships deals and i think he was referring to Lebron,.

Whenever Jordan is asked about Lebron vs. Kobe more often than not he has chosen Kobe. Jordan was at one of his camps a few yrs ago and a kid asked him who is better Lebron or Kobe and Jordan answered pssst Kobe. As if it was a no brainer. There might be times he picked Lebron but if he has it's not a lot. For whatever reason Jordan and Lebron don't click. Doesn't anyone wonder after wearing 23 since HS he decides to just change it. The reason he gave is:

"I feel like no NBA player should wear 23. I'm starting a petition, and I've got to get everyone in the NBA to sign it. Now, if I'm not going to wear No. 23, then nobody else should be able to wear it."

If that's the case why did he wear it for so long? I hate to read someone's mind but I think Lebron realized Jordan wasn't a fan of his. This goes back to what Ian O' Connor(radio host in NY) said during the summer of Lebron. Apparently James reached out for advice and MJ basically ignored. Other NY journalists have also stated the relationship between the two isn't a good one. I wonder why though? Lebron isn't the first player to be compared to Jordan. Is it the fact he crowned himself King before he joined the league, is it the jersey number, or is it something behind the scenes?


I would think people would have to say to date Kobe has had the better career.

You would be surprised.

waveycrockett
02-15-2013, 09:59 AM
Kobe has never been a better individual player than LeBron.

BigCityofDreams
02-15-2013, 10:09 AM
Kobe has never been a better individual player than LeBron.

I agree Kobe is a bum off with his head lol jk

Andrew32
02-15-2013, 10:18 AM
Guys... 5 is more then 1.
5... more... than... 1.

lol.

I guess Jordan thinks Pippen > Lebron also cause you know 6 is more then 1 also.

hugepatsfan
02-15-2013, 10:22 AM
Oh so Kobe and Kwame Brown have something in common.

boateng
02-15-2013, 10:26 AM
Oh so Kobe and Kwame Brown have something in common.

jordan knows more about basketball than you.

boateng
02-15-2013, 10:28 AM
being a better player has nothing to do with popularity.....charles barkley was more "popular" than Tim Duncan, but Duncan is a better player.......

It does when you are considered the GOAT. Joe Montana for example, Roger Federer etc...are all recognised all over the world as the GOAT in their sports.

If Lebron GOAT basketball player he will be recognised by that off the court and exceed Jordan.

Barkley and Duncan are not the GOAT/

waveycrockett
02-15-2013, 10:29 AM
jordan knows more about basketball than you.

lmao I doubt it. Jordan wouldn't know talent if it smacked him in the face.

boateng
02-15-2013, 10:31 AM
lmao I doubt it. Jordan wouldn't know talent if it smacked him in the face.

Evaluating talent and knowing basketball are two different things

That's why there are scouts and analyst. Just because your picked bad in the draft does not mean you don't know basketball.
How can the GOAT not no anything about basketball?

Also why are you not working in the NBA if your knowledge is so great? LOOOOOOL!

BIG worm
02-15-2013, 10:46 AM
He knows Kobe has no shot of passing him.... He choose him for that reason. Jordan is a bit of a dick to be honest and will be looking up at James before all is said and done. James will be the best player ever...He is already more unguardable than Jordan.

you have completely lost your mind! saying lebron is already more unguardable then jordan is a fallacy.

stawka
02-15-2013, 10:47 AM
I love me some Jordan, but the man gives me the ***** sometimes. Dude, you retired a lifetime ago, stop being bitter towards people and just STFU!

I would have loved it if he came out and said "Well... I was pretty good myself, but Bill Russell has 11 rings... And 11 beats 6 every time". Maybe he's bitter that Kobe approached Jordan for help while LeBron hasn't? I dunno what it is, the man is just a little ***** at times

Unfortunately for LeBron, he didn't enter the league playing alongside the MDE along with playing on one of the best franchises in all of sports. Instead he played with Ilgauskas and Larry Hughes.

ChitownSports16
02-15-2013, 10:48 AM
^^ welcome to PSD where pretenders are born.....

ShockerArt
02-15-2013, 10:48 AM
Evaluating talent and knowing basketball are two different things

That's why there are scouts and analyst. Just because your picked bad in the draft does not mean you don't know basketball.
How can the GOAT not no anything about basketball?

Also why are you not working in the NBA if your knowledge is so great? LOOOOOOL!

It's not like understanding basketball requires a PhD. The notion that the only people that understand sports are the pro athletes is absurd.

BigCityofDreams
02-15-2013, 11:00 AM
I love me some Jordan, but the man gives me the ***** sometimes. Dude, you retired a lifetime ago, stop being bitter towards people and just STFU!

I would have loved it if he came out and said "Well... I was pretty good myself, but Bill Russell has 11 rings... And 11 beats 6 every time". Maybe he's bitter that Kobe approached Jordan for help while LeBron hasn't? I dunno what it is, the man is just a little ***** at times

Unfortunately for LeBron, he didn't enter the league playing alongside the MDE along with playing on one of the best franchises in all of sports. Instead he played with Ilgauskas and Larry Hughes.

True but sometimes those are the cards that are dealt. In every sport some teams are better than others in certain areas.

It can be both ways. When the Cavs were running through the league and putting up high win totals all we heard was this was a championship team, they are on a collision course with the Lakers, no one wants to face the Cavs, etc. But when he started to get further away from the finals it became *shoulder shrug* hey he doesn't have a team. Maybe ppl over hyped the team instead of looking at it logically.

Slug3
02-15-2013, 11:17 AM
ok everyone lets settle down here. If he said who is playing the best right now it would be LJ. But in the whole career timeline at looking at things, Kobe so far HAS had the better career. There is not much debate on that and LeBron is on my team and its hard for me to admit something like this. The problem with this question is it really needs to be asked again in like 8 years when Kobe is done and Lebron is either done or close to hanging it up. Lebron is playing great basketball and it looks like he has a few more titles in him, but we cannot go off of what might happen in the future.

C_Mund
02-15-2013, 11:24 AM
What an awfully posed thread

natelpete
02-15-2013, 11:34 AM
It's MJ's ego talking. He knows's LBJ has a better shot than Kobe of taking over the number one spot so he's doing what he can to discredit him.

kdspurman
02-15-2013, 11:52 AM
Jordan also said this


"JORDAN PLAYS his new favorite trivia game, asking which current players could be nearly as successful in his era. "Our era," he says over and over again, calling modern players soft, coddled and ill-prepared for the highest level of the game. This is personal to him, since he'll be compared to this generation, and since he has to build a franchise with this generation's players.

"I'll give you a hint," he says. "I can only come up with four."

He lists them: LeBron, Kobe, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki."

***Full interview below

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/Michael-Jordan/michael-jordan-not-left-building

Yanks All Day
02-15-2013, 11:53 AM
Jordan knows LeBron is the only player alive who can challenge his legacy. Of course he would try to knock him down a peg. MJ is not stupid. If he took LeBron over Kobe, you're basically putting LeBron into top 5-7 category all-time before he's even 29. It's self-protection for MJ right now, but in a few years, it's likely it won't even be a debate between LeBron and Kobe.

kntresistheheat
02-15-2013, 12:06 PM
Jordan didn't win his first ring until the age of 28, so lebron gots time and he won't slow down anytime soon. Of course he will choose Kobe, he is identical to his game and same position but I don't know why he would say this because if Kobe and Jordan to play together they couldn't co-exist but if lebron played with Jordan they would run a Boston on the league!

DaBUU
02-15-2013, 12:08 PM
I just don't get it, Lebron is so very far from MJ's legacy. All I can chalk it up to is children watching too much of that crap booyah network.

kylem4711
02-15-2013, 12:27 PM
jordan likes kobe cause he sees that kobe is a jerk like jordan was. he probably just thinks you have to be like that to be great. old man syndrome

c.c.
02-15-2013, 12:28 PM
I'm a Jordan fan and I haven't liked LeBron since he left Cleveland but LeBron James is better than Kobe to me

BigCityofDreams
02-15-2013, 12:28 PM
Here is a short clip of the interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tVxjw07Eu8&feature=player_embedded

Gibby23
02-15-2013, 12:28 PM
He knows Kobe has no shot of passing him.... He choose him for that reason. Jordan is a bit of a dick to be honest and will be looking up at James before all is said and done. James will be the best player ever...He is already more unguardable than Jordan.

Did you ever watch Jordan? The defense was allowed to beat him up, they knew he was looking to score and he would still go out and drop 50 on them. He would have had 7 or 8 if he didn't retire.

lukeem21
02-15-2013, 12:29 PM
Dear MJ 11 beats 6 every time... not a valid/complete argument

boateng
02-15-2013, 01:07 PM
jordan likes kobe cause he sees that kobe is a jerk like jordan was. he probably just thinks you have to be like that to be great. old man syndrome

Lebron is not a jerk?

A guy who leaves his team on live tv and calls himself in third person?

Not even jordan called himself ''king''. loool

boateng
02-15-2013, 01:07 PM
I'm a Jordan fan and I haven't liked LeBron since he left Cleveland but LeBron James is better than Kobe to me

well yeah cos lebron is in his prime and kobe isnt.

lebron is miles ahead of kobe at this moment in time. i think lebron is a better player than kobe in his prime but i dont think he is miles better.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-15-2013, 01:09 PM
Of course Kobe will have more achievements considering he's been in the league 6 years more than Lebron. But Jordan sounds like an idiot for basing his answer on the amount of rings without providing anything else.

magic0320
02-15-2013, 01:23 PM
haha i love how lebron nut holders are butt hurt. everyone know's lebron won't be no where near kobe when it's all done. everyone knows in thier mind. just don't want to see it happening haha

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 01:26 PM
He said he takes Kobe over LeBron based off rings and that means he picks Robert Horry over Kobe and Magic.

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 01:27 PM
haha i love how lebron nut holders are butt hurt. everyone know's lebron won't be no where near kobe when it's all done. everyone knows in thier mind. just don't want to see it happening haha

Says the guy who thinks Kobe is going to make it to the WCF and win the finals by hitting game 7 game winners... Lol..

Chronz
02-15-2013, 01:33 PM
5 is greater than 1? Thats the sort of intelligence I expect from the youth on this site, not an actual OWNER and GOAT of the sport.

whitemamba33
02-15-2013, 01:33 PM
You know what cracks me up? Jordan is treated like a god here until he says something like this. Than all of a sudden he doesn't know what he's talking about and he's scared about his legacy.

Pretty much sums up my feelings on PSD.

tdg823
02-15-2013, 01:55 PM
I just don't get it, Lebron is so very far from MJ's legacy. All I can chalk it up to is children watching too much of that crap booyah network.

Exactly. Besides, Jordan was there (and the driving force) when the NBA became business and entertainment, not basketball. He knows firsthand the influence of money on the game and can use that to properly put Lebron in context.

BigCityofDreams
02-15-2013, 01:57 PM
He said he takes Kobe over LeBron based off rings and that means he picks Robert Horry over Kobe and Magic.



Did anyone see the entire Jordan quote. He said Lebron is dominating the game right now.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 01:57 PM
MJ is one of the biggest reasons I don't take ex-players evaluations with anything more than a grain of salt. Look at what his ability to judge talent landed the Wizards and Bobcats.

Besides, he most likely is still MJ, the super competitive dude. Why would he choose LeBron, knowing full well the debates have started all over again on whether or not Bron can pass him? Of course he would choose Kobe, who he know has zero chance at catching him.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 01:58 PM
You know what cracks me up? Jordan is treated like a god here until he says something like this. Than all of a sudden he doesn't know what he's talking about and he's scared about his legacy.

Pretty much sums up my feelings on PSD.

as a player, he was a god. As a talent evaluator, he is just flat out bad.

tdg823
02-15-2013, 02:02 PM
You know why the debate started? Because Sportscenter told you it was a debate. Before they stared blowing smoke up peoples butts in the last week or so, we weren't having this debate on any relevant scale, just a few true Heaven's Gate/ Jonestown devotees might have said it. Now it's a legit debate? nonsense.....

Power of the media..... Repeat that phrase over and over until it sinks in.....

P-O-Z
02-15-2013, 02:03 PM
MJ is one of the biggest reasons I don't take ex-players evaluations with anything more than a grain of salt. Look at what his ability to judge talent landed the Wizards and Bobcats.

Besides, he most likely is still MJ, the super competitive dude. Why would he choose LeBron, knowing full well the debates have started all over again on whether or not Bron can pass him? Of course he would choose Kobe, who he know has zero chance at catching him.

Funny thing is MJ said a while back KoBe would be top 10 as In top 10 guard of all time LOL but people remember what they want to hear its a fact, Lebrons 2012 playoff run > any of Kobe's. Kobe could only dream of being the efficient player lebron is, not to mention had lebron choose to say go the Kobe route (chucking) he could drop more and even then.. At an even more efficient rate than Kobe chucking!

boateng
02-15-2013, 02:05 PM
as a player, he was a god. As a talent evaluator, he is just flat out bad.

to say he thinks kobe is better isnt an outrageous opinion. Kenny Smith said the same thing as well.

Lebron isnt miles better than Kobe when in their primes even though i think he is the better player. It's like Lebron is some God who is on a different level to bryant. Kobe was amazing in his prime. Just proves how good lebron is really.

Chacarron
02-15-2013, 02:06 PM
Jordan did draft/trade for Kemba and Bismack in the same draft :drool:

Who says Jordan don't know talent?

CHANGO
02-15-2013, 02:08 PM
"Eleven beats six every time I look at it," Chango said. "And not that (Jordan) won't get eleven. He may return to the NBA and get more than that, but eleven is bigger than six."

Bill Rusell best player EVA!! Yo, I'm using Jordan logic! Now I understand why there is so much people thinking Kobe>Lebron, if Jordan say it... :facepalm:

BigCityofDreams
02-15-2013, 02:16 PM
You know what cracks me up? Jordan is treated like a god here until he says something like this. Than all of a sudden he doesn't know what he's talking about and he's scared about his legacy.

Pretty much sums up my feelings on PSD.

That's funny but I see what you're saying. Jordan says Kobe is just a top ten guard and it's "Hey the Goat is right Kobe is a very very good guard but lets relax on him being up there with Russ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Oscar, West, Shaq, Duncan, Dream, etc" Then he says "Kobe’s the only one to have done the work, to deserve comparison." and ppl say Jordan is just saying that...he doesn't mean it. Then today we have his comments and the reaction is "what does Jordan know about basketball"

lol

Sactown
02-15-2013, 02:17 PM
He was the manager of the worst team in NBA history last season for a REASON..

Rain City
02-15-2013, 02:20 PM
i think MJs comments here are more self-serving than anything. as bad as a talent evaluator as he is he knows for sure lebron is the best in the game right now.

hes never given much credit to lebron and has always seen insecure about it for some reason. i dont understand why, even tho who is the better player gets more and more debateable, neither kobe or lebron have a chance at matching MJ's legacy/resume.

naps
02-15-2013, 02:25 PM
Every time I look at it 11 is bigger than 6. 8 is bigger than 6. 7 is bigger than 6. So yeah Jordan is a borderline top 10 player. Can't have it both ways.

Michael is just scared of LeBron's potential. He knows LeBron is the only who can take kick him out of that GOAT status.

Sactown
02-15-2013, 02:25 PM
i think MJs comments here are more self-serving than anything. as bad as a talent evaluator as he is he knows for sure lebron is the best in the game right now.

hes never given much credit to lebron and has always seen insecure about it for some reason. i dont understand why, even tho who is the better player gets more and more debateable, neither kobe or lebron have a chance at matching MJ's legacy/resume.
Seems like everytime a player starts to be compared to Jordan, Jordan makes it an effort to go to the press and slam that person down. Remember a few years back when Jordan was asked about Kobe's all time rank, and he said "Top 50". Obviously Kobe was much higher up than that, but Jordan is so insecure he has to try to throw water on anybodies parade.

bucketss
02-15-2013, 02:26 PM
i don't get whats wrong with what he said kobe>lebron ... unless hes talking about whose the better player today, than he would be a ****** to take a 34 year old bryant over lebron.

BigCityofDreams
02-15-2013, 02:30 PM
to say he thinks kobe is better isnt an outrageous opinion. Kenny Smith said the same thing as well.

Lebron isnt miles better than Kobe when in their primes even though i think he is the better player. It's like Lebron is some God who is on a different level to bryant. Kobe was amazing in his prime. Just proves how good lebron is really.

And besides in the same interview he said Lebron is dominating the league right now.

What Lebron is doing is crazy and it is fun watching him play even though I'm not a fan of his but you would think Kobe just happened to play well by some form of luck. You hear fans, former players, and analysts say we have never seen a player play in this mode. But yet go back yrs ago and you'll hear those same ppl say the same things about Kobe when he was in one of his zones.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 02:31 PM
and your better.

to say he thinks kobe is better isnt an outrageous opinion. Kenny Smith said the same thing as well.

Lebron isnt miles better than Kobe when in their primes even though i think he is the better player. It's like Lebron is some God who is on a different level to bryant.

Better than Jordan? Not hard dude. It doesn't take a brilliant basketball mind to say Kwame Brown shouldn't have gone #1 at the time, or Adam Morrison did not have the athletic ability to make it in the NBA, among other moves he made.

I am not saying its a travesty to say that haha, many ex-players value winning over anything, by a large margin, without using context.

LeBron's peak will end up going down as well above Kobe's. He has already had 3 years better than Kobe ever did. I know Kobe fans hate advanced stats, but LeBron has statistically had 6 seasons, with this being #7, better than Kobe has ever put up. Even his career PER, Win shares/48, offensive rating, and even LeBron's playoff AVERAGES equal the best postseason stats Kobe had, in 08-09'. There is going to be a monster statistical difference between the two's peaks. Kobe will most likely have the longevity, we don't know yet. LeBron will have dwarfed him in MVP's, and be with him on all other accolades. In reality, the only thing Kobe may win in that battle is team championships. And that has "team" in it, not individual, which is what we are measuring.

waveycrockett
02-15-2013, 02:35 PM
Jordan did draft/trade for Kemba and Bismack in the same draft :drool:

Who says Jordan don't know talent?
Actually that was Cho.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 02:37 PM
Jordan did draft/trade for Kemba and Bismack in the same draft :drool:

Who says Jordan don't know talent?

that was Cho, the guy MJ hired when he finally realized he really sucked at evaluating NBA basketball talent.

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 04:24 PM
Jordan always likes to devalue a player who is compared to him. He said Kobe is definitely a top 10 guard? I mean c'mon. He doesn't give anyone dues because they are compared against him. MJ's basketball IQ may be high but his decisions and management is the worst. He's like Shaq... Great basketball player who are ******** analysts. Blake Griffin the next best player after LeBron... lol.

hugepatsfan
02-15-2013, 04:31 PM
Jordan retired the second time from CHI when I was 7 so I have to ask the older posters... how on Earth did people like this guy? He seems like way more of a douche bag than Lebron and I'm no Lebron fan by any stretch.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-15-2013, 04:32 PM
Wade agrees with Jordan!

“When you look back at this era there’s going to be a lot of players that you can pick from. You can talk about their greatness. This is a good era for basketball, and it would be led by Kobe Bryant – who was the greatest player in our era.”

beliges
02-15-2013, 04:34 PM
He knows Kobe has no shot of passing him.... He choose him for that reason. Jordan is a bit of a dick to be honest and will be looking up at James before all is said and done. James will be the best player ever...He is already more unguardable than Jordan.

Lebron may get there with at least 5 more titles. Its a pretty tall order. Lets see if he can get to that level. With only one title now, it seems a bit silly to even have this discussion. But, playing on a tremendously talented team like the Heat are now, I see no reason why LBJ shouldnt achieve at least another 3 to 4 titles to get in that Magic, Kobe, Bird and MJ discussion for perimeter players. As of right now, he is on the outside looking in. The only way for him to get it is another 3 to 4 titles. Once hes on that level, then the MJ comparisons should have some merit.

D-Leethal
02-15-2013, 04:38 PM
I think he feels his legacy is more threatened by LeBron, Kobe isn't going to rack up the accolades necessary to dethrone MJ before he retires but LeBron might. Hes protecting his GOAT image he cares ever so deeply about.

beliges
02-15-2013, 04:39 PM
And besides in the same interview he said Lebron is dominating the league right now.

What Lebron is doing is crazy and it is fun watching him play even though I'm not a fan of his but you would think Kobe just happened to play well by some form of luck. You hear fans, former players, and analysts say we have never seen a player play in this mode. But yet go back yrs ago and you'll hear those same ppl say the same things about Kobe when he was in one of his zones.

Its the same thing over and over again about every new up and coming player. If Durant happens to win a ring this year, they will say the same thing about Durant. When Kobe was in his prime, lots of people were calling him the best player ever. Its just how it works in the media. Theres only one way for Lebron to reach the level of an MJ or a Kobe or a Magic, and that is by winning championships. Once Lebron gets his 5th, then we can have a very serious debate. But without winning, its a moot point making these comparisons. Statistics are a minor part of one's greatness. Without an ability to win, statistics dont mean nearly as much. Furthermore, I can see Lebron garnering the criticism that he couldnt do it without Wade and Bosh if he happens to never win without them. Kobe got the same criticism about Shaq and then went on to win another two titles without him. There will always be reasons to commend and criticize great players. But, the only way Lebron can get to that undisputed level of greatness that MJ, Magic and Kobe have achieved is through winning many many many titles.

D-Leethal
02-15-2013, 04:45 PM
I don't think LeBron needs 6 rings to dethrone MJ but he will need about 4 of them. His stats will likely trump MJ when its all said and done, if he can rack up a few DPOY (Very possible), get about 4 chips, 4 finals MVP's, dominate for a longer period of time and maybe win a ring with two different franchises (Cleveland) I think that could do it for him. Rings mean a lot, but they aren't the entire argument. Its not like Russell is considered the GOAT over MJ by anyone but Bill Simmons.

If LBJ wins 2 or 3 in Miami and goes to Cleveland and wins one, hes going to make a hell of a case for himself. I think winning with two different franchises/supporting casts/coaches would be the deal breaker.

beliges
02-15-2013, 04:50 PM
I don't think LeBron needs 6 rings to dethrone MJ but he will need about 4 of them. His stats will likely trump MJ when its all said and done, if he can rack up a few DPOY (Very possible), get about 4 chips, 4 finals MVP's, dominate for a longer period of time and maybe win a ring with two different franchises (Cleveland) I think that could do it for him. Rings mean a lot, but they aren't the entire argument. Its not like Russell is considered the GOAT over MJ by anyone but Bill Simmons.

If LBJ wins 2 or 3 in Miami and goes to Cleveland and wins one, hes going to make a hell of a case for himself. I think winning with two different franchises/supporting casts/coaches would be the deal breaker.

Lebron playing on the team hes playing on will need 6 titles to thump MJ and at least 5 to get to Magic and Kobe's levels. He is playing on a supremely talented team he personally chose to play on in order to win titles. Stats mean nothing without titles. If he is as good as everyone is saying he is, he will win. Its really pretty simple. Those before him have done it. He will undoubtedly be held to the same standard. Otherwise, Wilt would be the undisputed greatest of all time. Lebron needs to continue winning title after title after title. Thats the only thing left for him to do in order to reach the level of the great perimeter players that came before him.

JdKing7
02-15-2013, 04:54 PM
Im not much of a lebron lover. I truly believe mj is the greatest of all time and will still be by the end of lebrons career. However, he's just afraid to admit it because he doesn't want to give the lebron lovers any more fuel for the fire. He's just afraid of the possibilty that lebron make overtake the throne.

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 04:59 PM
Wade agrees with Jordan!

“When you look back at this era there’s going to be a lot of players that you can pick from. You can talk about their greatness. This is a good era for basketball, and it would be led by Kobe Bryant – who was the greatest player in our era.”

How did he agree with Jordan? Jordan said he would pick Kobe solely on rings. Wade said the current era is filled with lots of great players, that of which begins with Kobe because he's the most respected NBA player right now.

bucketss
02-15-2013, 05:05 PM
Lebron playing on the team hes playing on will need 6 titles to thump MJ and at least 5 to get to Magic and Kobe's levels. He is playing on a supremely talented team he personally chose to play on in order to win titles. Stats mean nothing without titles. If he is as good as everyone is saying he is, he will win. Its really pretty simple. Those before him have done it. He will undoubtedly be held to the same standard. Otherwise, Wilt would be the undisputed greatest of all time. Lebron needs to continue winning title after title after title. Thats the only thing left for him to do in order to reach the level of the great perimeter players that came before him.

he doesn't need 5 to pass kobe if he gets two more(finals mvp on both) kobe will be eating his dust,and don't act like kobe and magic didn't play with a great team, kobe wasn't even the man for most of his rings, and magic played with kareem and worthy.

DanG
02-15-2013, 05:05 PM
Wade agrees with Jordan!

“When you look back at this era there’s going to be a lot of players that you can pick from. You can talk about their greatness. This is a good era for basketball, and it would be led by Kobe Bryant – who was the greatest player in our era.”

He didn't agree with him, but still respect to him for saying that.

ManRam
02-15-2013, 05:07 PM
So, Jordan is saying that he himself is a fringe top 10 player all time?

I don't think his viewpoint is wrong necessarily. I do think it's foolish to think all he's doing is counting rings (and if he is, then he is foolish himself)...but Jordan knows best to just wait and see. MJ got his ring as late as Bron did...

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 05:08 PM
Jordan retired the second time from CHI when I was 7 so I have to ask the older posters... how on Earth did people like this guy? He seems like way more of a douche bag than Lebron and I'm no Lebron fan by any stretch.he was just naturally likable, especially when he was playing. any cockiness came off as cool, & just made sense. he did it the right way. natural charm. the whole world was crazy about him

D-Leethal
02-15-2013, 05:09 PM
Lebron playing on the team hes playing on will need 6 titles to thump MJ and at least 5 to get to Magic and Kobe's levels. He is playing on a supremely talented team he personally chose to play on in order to win titles. Stats mean nothing without titles. If he is as good as everyone is saying he is, he will win. Its really pretty simple. Those before him have done it. He will undoubtedly be held to the same standard. Otherwise, Wilt would be the undisputed greatest of all time. Lebron needs to continue winning title after title after title. Thats the only thing left for him to do in order to reach the level of the great perimeter players that came before him.

I don't think so. MJ's supporting cast was a quarter away from making the finals WITHOUT him. You think the Heat are sniffing the finals with LeBron? MJ's supporting cast was every bit as good as Wade's, despite HOW LeBron and Wade teamed up compared to MJ/Scottie. Lets not act like Kobe, Magic and LBJ didn't have multiple HOFs on their respective squads.

IMO, Kobe and Shaq's Lakers, MJ, Scottie and Grant/Rodmans Bulls, Magic, Kareem and Worthy's Lakers were ALL better supporting casts than the current Heat squad. I might even give the nod to Kobe-Pau-Bynum-Odom Laker squads.

LAKERMANIA
02-15-2013, 05:09 PM
He knows Kobe has no shot of passing him.... He choose him for that reason. Jordan is a bit of a dick to be honest and will be looking up at James before all is said and done. James will be the best player ever...He is already more unguardable than Jordan.

Are you kidding me? :pity:

D-Leethal
02-15-2013, 05:10 PM
Im not much of a lebron lover. I truly believe mj is the greatest of all time and will still be by the end of lebrons career. However, he's just afraid to admit it because he doesn't want to give the lebron lovers any more fuel for the fire. He's just afraid of the possibilty that lebron make overtake the throne.

I agree. I think he knows Kobe doesn't have the accolades and doesn't have enough time to rack them up. LeBron on the other hand.....

ManRam
02-15-2013, 05:10 PM
Jordan wasn't a likable person...but like we've seen with Kobe, and are seeing with LeBron, winning cures that all. But if Jordan were an average player I'm sure he'd be considered very, very, very unlikable.

MassoDio
02-15-2013, 05:12 PM
Man people go overboard on this forum.

"It's Michael's ego. He's bitter. He doesn't like LeBron....blah...blah...blah"

It really is quite simple. Michael chose Kobe because Kobe is more like him. Jordan see's things through a competitive, winning is the only thing that matters perspective. To this point, Kobe has had the more accomplished career. AND Kobe plays a similar game and has a similar attitude towards the game. People seek out other people like them in all facets of life. Jordan's choice, when looking at it logically, rather than through the ridiculously biased views tinted by our own feelings on who is better, is quite simple to figure out.

Some people really need to stop attacking players like they stole your girlfriend or something. Seriously. It is petty and plain ignorant.

For those of you who can actually look at things in a logical way, and without bias, Michael Wilbon had something to say about the way Jordan felt about LeBron outside of the public eye. This what he says in his article.


More times than I can count, when young 20ish LeBron was going through his postseason struggles, I got messages from Jordan that amounted to, "Hey, leave that kid alone & he's going to kick everybody's *** one day and you'll feel dumb for criticizing him!"

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/8947531/michael-jordan-birthday-recalls-greatness-not-surpassed-lebron-james-dominance

Jordan is very aware of how good LeBron is. And if you knew anything about Jordan and his competitive mentality, then you wouldn't be saying that Jordan is afraid LeBron will pass him. That thought doesn't enter his mind. What Michael would be thinking is, "LeBron is great and Kobe is too, but I would still whoop them both if I was in my prime." Regardless of it you think he is right or not, that is the man's mentality, and one of the reason's he was so great.

Just stop with all the ridiculous crap about him hating this guy or that guy. The only thing Jordan hates about LeBron, and he hates Kobe for it too, is that they are still able to suit up every day and do what he loved to do.

Here is another article that is really well written, that gives a little perspective on how Jordan is now.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/Michael-Jordan/michael-jordan-not-left-building

And for those of you saying he can't evaluate talent because the Bobcats are bad. Just stop. Stop the Kwame crap. All GM's get things wrong. There was no clear cut guy that was head and shoulders above everyone else in that draft. Pau ended up being an incredible player. Tyson is just the last few years been good. Eddy Curry went number 2, drafted by a guy who has widely been known as a good GM in Jerry Krause. That draft was a crap shoot. (Not to mention, that was Jordan's first attempt at a draft, and it was one that there was a bunch of unknowns in. It was high school kids and Euros.) There is a learning curve to being a GM and draft evaluater. All GM's screw up big time. They just aren't the most famous former basketball player ever.

Drafting Morrison was a bad pick. But many people were calling him the next Larry Bird. (Which was absurd, but still. Many really good scouts were singing his praises.) A that time, the Bobcats had no shooters. It was a choice based on logic that happened to backfire. He has drafted fairly well the last couple years in getting Biyumbo, Kemba, and MKG. For crying out loud people are firckin ridiculous.

BigCityofDreams
02-15-2013, 05:12 PM
Its the same thing over and over again about every new up and coming player. If Durant happens to win a ring this year, they will say the same thing about Durant. When Kobe was in his prime, lots of people were calling him the best player ever. Its just how it works in the media. Theres only one way for Lebron to reach the level of an MJ or a Kobe or a Magic, and that is by winning championships. Once Lebron gets his 5th, then we can have a very serious debate. But without winning, its a moot point making these comparisons. Statistics are a minor part of one's greatness. Without an ability to win, statistics dont mean nearly as much. Furthermore, I can see Lebron garnering the criticism that he couldnt do it without Wade and Bosh if he happens to never win without them. Kobe got the same criticism about Shaq and then went on to win another two titles without him. There will always be reasons to commend and criticize great players. But, the only way Lebron can get to that undisputed level of greatness that MJ, Magic and Kobe have achieved is through winning many many many titles.

Very well said.

I don't think he needs exactly six rings but definitely 4-5 rings to add to his resume would go a long way.

Sactown
02-15-2013, 05:16 PM
Jordan wasn't a likable person...but like we've seen with Kobe, and are seeing with LeBron, winning cures that all. But if Jordan were an average player I'm sure he'd be considered very, very, very unlikable.

Eh, there wasn't as much media outlets in the 90's, so MJ wasn't under the spotlight 24/7 like Athletes are today, especially with twitter, most athletes tend to pull a Plexico Burress and shoot themselves in the foot. I also thought I've read (pretty positive), Nike controlled a lot of MJ's announcements/speeches/interviews. Also I believe media outlets weren't so cold blooded like they are today. Imagine if Lebron or Kevin Durant were forced to retire to do AIDS, like Magic Johnson... They wouldn't of received the courtesy Magic did..

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 05:17 PM
he doesn't need 5 to pass kobe if he gets two more(finals mvp on both) kobe will be eating his dust,and don't act like kobe and magic didn't play with a great team, kobe wasn't even the man for most of his rings, and magic played with kareem and worthy.Magic was still better than Kobe even if he gets his 6th title

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 05:19 PM
Jordan wasn't a likable person...but like we've seen with Kobe, and are seeing with LeBron, winning cures that all. But if Jordan were an average player I'm sure he'd be considered very, very, very unlikable.he was extremely likable to me, & millions & millions of other people. Still is, Jordan is cool

he's a little crankier these days, but it's because he's not dealing with getting older very well, it's tough for him to lose his ability

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 05:22 PM
and i disagree with Michael (i'd go with LeBron everytme over KB), if he truly said he'd take Kobe over LeBron which i didn't hear him exactly say that

AIRMAR72
02-15-2013, 05:22 PM
man people go overboard on this forum.

"it's michael's ego. He's bitter. He doesn't like lebron....blah...blah...blah"

it really is quite simple. Michael chose kobe because kobe is more like him. Jordan see's things through a competitive, winning is the only thing that matters perspective. To this point, kobe has had the more accomplished career. And kobe plays a similar game and has a similar attitude towards the game. People seek out other people like them in all facets of life. Jordan's choice, when looking at it logically, rather than through the ridiculously biased views tinted by our own feelings on who is better, is quite simple to figure out.

Some people really need to stop attacking players like they stole your girlfriend or something. Seriously. It is petty and plain ignorant.

For those of you who can actually look at things in a logical way, and without bias, michael wilbon had something to say about the way jordan felt about lebron outside of the public eye. This what he says in his article.



http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/8947531/michael-jordan-birthday-recalls-greatness-not-surpassed-lebron-james-dominance

jordan is very aware of how good lebron is. And if you knew anything about jordan and his competitive mentality, then you wouldn't be saying that jordan is afraid lebron will pass him. That thought doesn't enter his mind. What michael would be thinking is, "lebron is great and kobe is too, but i would still whoop them both if i was in my prime." regardless of it you think he is right or not, that is the man's mentality, and one of the reason's he was so great.

Just stop with all the ridiculous crap about him hating this guy or that guy. The only thing jordan hates about lebron, and he hates kobe for it too, is that they are still able to suit up every day and do what he loved to do.

Here is another article that is really well written, that gives a little perspective on how jordan is now.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/michael-jordan/michael-jordan-not-left-building

and for those of you saying he can't evaluate talent because the bobcats are bad. Just stop. Stop the kwame crap. All gm's get things wrong. There was no clear cut guy that was head and shoulders above everyone else in that draft. Pau ended up being an incredible player. Tyson is just the last few years been good. Eddy curry went number 2, drafted by a guy who has widely been known as a good gm in jerry krause. That draft was a crap shoot. (not to mention, that was jordan's first attempt at a draft, and it was one that there was a bunch of unknowns in. It was high school kids and euros.) there is a learning curve to being a gm and draft evaluater. All gm's screw up big time. They just aren't the most famous former basketball player ever.

Drafting morrison was a bad pick. But many people were calling him the next larry bird. (which was absurd, but still. Many really good scouts were singing his praises.) a that time, the bobcats had no shooters. It was a choice based on logic that happened to backfire. He has drafted fairly well the last couple years in getting biyumbo, kemba, and mkg. For crying out loud people are firckin ridiculous.true

DanG
02-15-2013, 05:24 PM
Bron

"He said he would take Kobe over me because… five rings are better than one and last time he checked five is better than one, But that’s his own opinion. At the end of the days, rings doesn’t always define somebody’s career. If that’s the case, then I would sit up here and say, I would take Russell over Jordan. But I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t take Russell over Jordan. Russell has 11 rings, Jordan has six. Would I take Robert Horry (who has seven) over Kobe? I wouldn’t do that. It’s your personal opinion. Rings does not define somebody’s career… Charles Barkley doesn’t have one ring… Patrick Ewing is one of the greatest of all time (and doesn’t have one). Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time (and doesn’t have one). Sometimes it’s the situation you’re in, it’s the team you’re in. And it’s about time as well. I don’t play the game and try to define who I am over what guys say or what they feel about me. It doesn’t matter to me, I go out and I play for my family, I play for my coaching staff.’’

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 05:29 PM
i agree it's not just about ring count. it's a combination of everything really, & that's where MJ always wins against anyone. the eye test (when you just know you're watching the best player ever), the impact, playoff ppg, finals mvps, regular season ppg, mvps, huge clutch moments in the playoffs & finals, DPOTY, etc all combined, MJ destroys

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 05:30 PM
Bron

"He said he would take Kobe over me because… five rings are better than one and last time he checked five is better than one, But that’s his own opinion. At the end of the days, rings doesn’t always define somebody’s career. If that’s the case, then I would sit up here and say, I would take Russell over Jordan. But I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t take Russell over Jordan. Russell has 11 rings, Jordan has six. Would I take Robert Horry (who has seven) over Kobe? I wouldn’t do that. It’s your personal opinion. Rings does not define somebody’s career… Charles Barkley doesn’t have one ring… Patrick Ewing is one of the greatest of all time (and doesn’t have one). Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time (and doesn’t have one). Sometimes it’s the situation you’re in, it’s the team you’re in. And it’s about time as well. I don’t play the game and try to define who I am over what guys say or what they feel about me. It doesn’t matter to me, I go out and I play for my family, I play for my coaching staff.’’

perfect response. For once LeBron didn't put his foot in his mouth haha

beliges
02-15-2013, 05:30 PM
Magic was still better than Kobe even if he gets his 6th title

Eh, You can find many people that will disagree with you there. But one thing people will not disagree on is that Magic and Kobe, along with MJ are among the 3 absolute greatest perimeter players of all time. And thats because they won more than any other perimeter player on their level.

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 05:32 PM
perfect response. For once LeBron didn't put his foot in his mouth hahathat was a perfect response. LeBron is the man in the NBA today, the best

BigCityofDreams
02-15-2013, 05:32 PM
Jordan retired the second time from CHI when I was 7 so I have to ask the older posters... how on Earth did people like this guy? He seems like way more of a douche bag than Lebron and I'm no Lebron fan by any stretch.

God you were 7 I feel old lol

He was one the greatest things in sports anyone had ever seen. Yes he was brash and loud but it came off cool and exciting. The playoff games were like events. I never had the opportunity to go to one but even on tv it felt larger than life. Take into account how much the media has changed over the yrs. MJ played at a time when there was coverage but not like there is now. His behavior was seen as a great player just wanting to win badly. It would take yrs later for journalists and teammates to tell the other side of Jordan. Kerr tells ppl the story of Jordan hitting him during practice and even though he laughs I'm sure he didn't like getting hit in front of everyone.

mngopher35
02-15-2013, 05:34 PM
Lebron playing on the team hes playing on will need 6 titles to thump MJ and at least 5 to get to Magic and Kobe's levels. He is playing on a supremely talented team he personally chose to play on in order to win titles. Stats mean nothing without titles. If he is as good as everyone is saying he is, he will win. Its really pretty simple. Those before him have done it. He will undoubtedly be held to the same standard. Otherwise, Wilt would be the undisputed greatest of all time. Lebron needs to continue winning title after title after title. Thats the only thing left for him to do in order to reach the level of the great perimeter players that came before him.

I see what your saying but I partially disagree. Jordan has a slightly different situation and the amazing accolades and stats where I can see Lebron possibly needing 6 to be the GOAT. Magic had a shorter career and championship help most of his career. He won 5 titles but he had many years of support to do it with. So with longevity, stats, accolades very possibly favoring Lebron I don't think he needs to match Magic ring for ring (although he needs more than just this one or another and needs the finals mvp too). For Kobe if Lebron gets 2 more rings and the finals mvps then he will have Kobe beat in mvps, prime, finals mvps, stats etc. In this case Kobe would only have 2 rings on Lebron and when you consider their situations (playing with shaq in his prime compared to playing in cleveland with mo williams) I think many people would have Lebron over Kobe at that point.

I'm not saying that this is what will or what needs to happen for certain. I'm just pointing out I can reallistically see a way Lebron is compared to favorably with these players you mentioned without getting up to 5 rings. I'm not huge on saying a player needs x amount of rings or using rings as the entire basis for comparing players so maybe we disagree there. There are so many other factors than rings and I was just giving you some examples (so he doesnt need 2 more to pass kobe but it's possible he gets 2 more and has a case when it's all said and done is my point).

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 05:35 PM
I just watched the report regarding LeBron on this matter. He's 100% correct but he respects his predecessors enough to not insult them. It sounded like he did admit he was better than Kobe except that Kobe had the better team and management.

beliges
02-15-2013, 05:36 PM
perfect response. For once LeBron didn't put his foot in his mouth haha

I found his response a bit funny and ironic in the sense that he mentioned the greatness of MJ and Russell and then mentioned names like Barkley, Reggie Miller and Patrick Ewing. True Barkley, Ewing and Miller were great, but they were nowhere near the level of MJ or Russell and thats because while MJ and Russell won many many many rings, Ewing, Miller and Barkley didnt.

If Lebron wants to be on the same level as a Barkley or a Ewing, then hes right, he can achieve that form of greatness without winning. But, if he wants to get to where MJ, and Russell and Magic and Kobe have gotten to, he will need to win another 3-4 rings at least. Its a matter of what level of greatness you want to reach. Lebron has the ability and the talent around him to reach the level or Magic and Kobe, now he just has to actually do it. Truly he is a remarkable talent and is putting up spectacular numbers. But none of that will matter too much if he doesnt win another 3 or 4 titles. And as was stated, if Lebron truly is as great as a lot of people are making him out to be, then he should have no problem winning another 3-4 more titles. He has the team and the talent around him that the greats before him had. He should be able to achieve the same amount of success as those that came before him if he is to reach their level.

LOOTERX9
02-15-2013, 05:36 PM
Well I think Jordan does not really like Lebron much really. But the biggest factor to him picking kobe is that kobe plays like he did. So if he says that lebron is better cause of lebron's passing abilities then it would make jordan look a little worst cause lebron passes better than jordan too. Jordan and kobe has the same skill set so in jordan's head if he says lebron is better then that means lebron's skill set would be better than jordan's skill set overall.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 05:36 PM
that was a perfect response. LeBron is the man in the NBA today, the best

I agree, but he is a poor speaker. He seems to come off as a victim many times, he is better off not speaking usually.

JasonJohnHorn
02-15-2013, 05:37 PM
Umm... yeah... you are talking about a guy who drafted Adam Morrison and Kwambe Brown. Obviously he is $#!T at evaluating talent.

Hmm... should I take Adam Morrison, Rudy Gay or Brandon Roy? I think I'll go with Adam Morrison. Though I don't want to pass up on Tyrus Thomas, so I think I'll give up a first round draft pick for him and give him a big contract.

Hmm... should I take Kwambe Brown? Or Tyson chandler? Or Pau Gasol? Or Gerald Wallace? Or Jason Richardson? Or Joe Johnson? Or Z-Bo? Hmm.... so many great players to choose from... I think I'll go with Kwame Brown.


Yeah... Jordan's opinion doesn't matter.

Seriously. This post should be title: Man who drafted Kwame Brown says Kobe better than LeBron.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 05:37 PM
I found his response a bit funny and ironic in the sense that he mentioned the greatness of MJ and Russell and then mentioned names like Barkley, Reggie Miller and Patrick Ewing. True Barkley, Ewing and Miller were great, but they were nowhere near the level of MJ or Russell and thats because while MJ and Russell won many many many rings, Ewing, Miller and Barkley didnt.

If Lebron wants to be on the same level as a Barkley or a Ewing, then hes right, he can achieve that form of greatness without winning. But, if he wants to get to where MJ, and Russell and Magic and Kobe have gotten to, he will need to win another 3-4 rings at least. Its a matter of what level of greatness you want to reach. Lebron has the ability and the talent around him to reach the level or Magic and Kobe, now he just has to actually do it. Truly he is a remarkable talent and is putting up spectacular numbers. But none of that will matter too much if he doesnt win another 3 or 4 titles. And as was stated, if Lebron truly is as great as a lot of people are making him out to be, then he should have no problem winning another 3-4 more titles. He has the team and the talent around him that the greats before him had. He should be able to achieve the same amount of success as those that came before him if he is to reach their level.

I personally think Russell is overrated some. I have him at the end of my top 10, right with Barkley honestly. Bill was utterly useless on one side of the floor for so much of his career. LeBron basically said, if he wants to use rings as the only reason, why shouldn't we judge all greats on that?

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 05:38 PM
I found his response a bit funny and ironic in the sense that he mentioned the greatness of MJ and Russell and then mentioned names like Barkley, Reggie Miller and Patrick Ewing. True Barkley, Ewing and Miller were great, but they were nowhere near the level of MJ or Russell and thats because while MJ and Russell won many many many rings, Ewing, Miller and Barkley didnt.

If Lebron wants to be on the same level as a Barkley or a Ewing, then hes right, he can achieve that form of greatness without winning. But, if he wants to get to where MJ, and Russell and Magic and Kobe have gotten to, he will need to win another 3-4 rings at least. Its a matter of what level of greatness you want to reach. Lebron has the ability and the talent around him to reach the level or Magic and Kobe, now he just has to actually do it. Truly he is a remarkable talent and is putting up spectacular numbers. But none of that will matter too much if he doesnt win another 3 or 4 titles. And as was stated, if Lebron truly is as great as a lot of people are making him out to be, then he should have no problem winning another 3-4 more titles. He has the team and the talent around him that the greats before him had. He should be able to achieve the same amount of success as those that came before him if he is to reach their level.

I think you misread everything. He was asked what he felt about MJ's response in which MJ said he would choose Kobe over LeBron because Kobe has 5 rings and 5 rings beats 1. It's perfectly legible for LeBron to respond that Robert Horry has 7 rings and Charles Barkley has 0, therefore is Horry better than Barkley?

He never once compared Barkley, Ewing, or Miller to Russell. He's just referring to the fact that comparing a player via rings is very flawed.

And I'd argue. Barkley to me is a top 10 player in terms of his ability to play. He's too underrated and that's rightfully so if you include rings.

ThuglifeJ
02-15-2013, 05:39 PM
I just don't get it, Lebron is so very far from MJ's legacy. All I can chalk it up to is children watching too much of that crap booyah network.
I kinda agree here.

Am I the only one who actually thinks Kobe is better than Lebron. Not individually right now this season, but overall.. I understand that PSD loves to live in the moment but everything I see Lebron do these days I was seeing Kobe do years ago... Like honestly I saw Kobe throw in 81 points and rape the Orlando Magic in the finals not too long ago. Like Lebron still has a lot to prove I dont care what ESPN says the man won one ring with one of the best all-time rosters. He's proving to be an all-time player but he needs to do something extraordinary to be as good as everyone is saying. Like I need to see a 60 point game where he turns around and hits a game winner in everyone's face. Reg. season stats don't as much to me with the opposing teams now days (not saying he doesn't do it against the good teams, because he does). The 6 game streak of 30 points 60% was a good start tho. Let's hope he continues to improve his legacy that was tarnished a couple years ago on "the decision"


That being said I do believe the reason for Jordan saying this wasn't because he actually believes it but because he has an enormous ego to fill every day when he wakes up and Lebron is in his prime time.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 05:40 PM
I just watched the report regarding LeBron on this matter. He's 100% correct but he respects his predecessors enough to not insult them. It sounded like he did admit he was better than Kobe except that Kobe had the better team and management.

and LeBron would be correct...

beliges
02-15-2013, 05:40 PM
I see what your saying but I partially disagree. Jordan has a slightly different situation and the amazing accolades and stats where I can see Lebron possibly needing 6 to be the GOAT. Magic had a shorter career and championship help most of his career. He won 5 titles but he had many years of support to do it with. So with longevity, stats, accolades very possibly favoring Lebron I don't think he needs to match Magic ring for ring (although he needs more than just this one or another and needs the finals mvp too). For Kobe if Lebron gets 2 more rings and the finals mvps then he will have Kobe beat in mvps, prime, finals mvps, stats etc. In this case Kobe would only have 2 rings on Lebron and when you consider their situations (playing with shaq in his prime compared to playing in cleveland with mo williams) I think many people would have Lebron over Kobe at that point.

I'm not saying that this is what will or what needs to happen for certain. I'm just pointing out I can reallistically see a way Lebron is compared to favorably with these players you mentioned without getting up to 5 rings. I'm not huge on saying a player needs x amount of rings or using rings as the entire basis for comparing players so maybe we disagree there. There are so many other factors than rings and I was just giving you some examples (so he doesnt need 2 more to pass kobe but it's possible he gets 2 more and has a case when it's all said and done is my point).

I dont think "lack of talent" will ever be an excuse for Lebron again. On the same note, I can argue that Lebron coulnt win without Wade and Bosh. Kobe was forced to get out of that shadow with Shaq and he did it with a guy like Pau, instantly turning him into a dominant champion. In my opinion, Lebron will either need to match Kobe in rings or win a few without Wade and Bosh by his side. There are a lot of variables that come into play. For me, Lebron has no excuses not to get to 5 titles given the talent he has on his team. If Kobe and Magic and MJ could do it, then he should also be able to do it. Seems pretty simple to me. If he was still on the Cavs without playing alongside other elite NBA players, it would be different. But he has two elite NBA players by his side, along with a very solid bench. He should achieve the same amount of success as the greats that came before him.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 05:42 PM
I dont think "lack of talent" will ever be an excuse for Lebron again. On the same note, I can argue that Lebron coulnt win without Wade and Bosh. Kobe was forced to get out of that shadow with Shaq and he did it with a guy like Pau, instantly turning him into a dominant champion. In my opinion, Lebron will either need to match Kobe in rings or win a few without Wade and Bosh by his side. There are a lot of variables that come into play. For me, Lebron has no excuses not to get to 5 titles given the talent he has on his team. If Kobe and Magic and MJ could do it, then he should also be able to do it. Seems pretty simple to me. If he was still on the Cavs without playing alongside other elite NBA players, it would be different. But he has two elite NBA players by his side, along with a very solid bench. He should achieve the same amount of success as the greats that came before him.

Show me a superstar who won alone. Of course LeBron couldn't win without having roster support, and very good roster support at that. Neither did, or could, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Russell, or anyone who has won chips.

Point?

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 05:43 PM
the media was very different then. they didn't try to nit pick every little word anyone said, & get all crazy about a good stretch of games. MJ's 37.1 ppg season, his triple double streak, his 35ppg on 535%fg weren't hyped up to insane levels like now days. there was no pti or around the horn, opinion shows, & sports center just basically told what happened in the games & moved on (didn't obsess over things like today), no twitter, no face book, no internet. if MJ played through his best years today, they'd go bonkers, & i'm sure he could get 40ppg on 55% with the rules today (he got 37.1 ppg with handchecking, & much tougher rules back then, 2.9 away from 40ppg, so i have no doubt he could get 40ppg today)

beliges
02-15-2013, 05:43 PM
and LeBron would be correct...

Lebron's team now is every bit as good as the Kobe/Shaq teams and better than the Kobe/Pau teams. He should be able to achieve the same amount of success, if not better than Kobe if you think he is indeed a better player.

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 05:43 PM
I kinda agree here.

Am I the only one who actually thinks Kobe is better than Lebron. Not individually right now this season, but overall.. I understand that PSD loves to live in the moment but everything I see Lebron do these days I was seeing Kobe do years ago... Like honestly I saw Kobe throw in 81 points and rape the Orlando Magic in the finals not too long ago. Like Lebron still has a lot to prove I dont care what ESPN says the man won one ring with one of the best all-time rosters. He's proving to be an all-time player but he needs to do something extraordinary to be as good as everyone is saying. Like I need to see a 60 point game where he turns around and hits a game winner in everyone's face. Reg. season stats don't as much to me with the opposing teams now days (not saying he doesn't do it against the good teams, because he does). The 6 game streak of 30 points 60% was a good start tho. Let's hope he continues to improve his legacy that was tarnished a couple years ago on "the decision"


That being said I do believe the reason for Jordan saying this wasn't because he actually believes it but because he has an enormous ego to fill every day when he wakes up and Lebron is in his prime time.

Man, Kobe never did what LeBron is doing right now. I don't know what you are talking about. Scoring 81 points is impressive but not enough to the point where you ignore LeBron's triple doubles and carrying his team to the finals. Kobe was never better than LeBron except for maybe 2-3 of LeBron's early years. Since 2008, there is no doubt who the best has been.

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 05:44 PM
Lebron's team now is every bit as good as the Kobe/Shaq teams and better than the Kobe/Pau teams. He should be able to achieve the same amount of success, if not better than Kobe if you think he is indeed a better player.

But it's only their third year and they are favorites to win this year. Give him maybe 5 more years but there is no doubt that if he gets 5-6 rings, he can compete with Jordan as the best.

beliges
02-15-2013, 05:46 PM
Show me a superstar who won alone. Of course LeBron couldn't win without having roster support, and very good roster support at that. Neither did, or could, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Russell, or anyone who has won chips.

Point?

I completely agree with you on the fact that nobody has done it alone. But, my point is, Lebron's on the best and most talented team in the league right now. He has the help Kobe had and MJ had and etc...On that basis, he should be able to achieve the same amount of success. It seems people are setting him up for if he falls short of winning 4 or 5 titles, by claiming he would be considered better than those that did it before him. My point is, if he is as good or better than Kobe, or Magic, then he should and will win 5 titles with better numbers. He certainly has the talent around him to get there and if he truly is as good or better, then he should, without excuse, get to that level.

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 05:46 PM
I agree, but he is a poor speaker. He seems to come off as a victim many times, he is better off not speaking usually.i think he really cares what MJ thinks. you can tell he does when he tries to play it off, but it looks like it hurts his feelings. he's just a crazed MJ fan like alot of people at heart, so it's gotta sting a bit

beliges
02-15-2013, 05:48 PM
But it's only their third year and they are favorites to win this year. Give him maybe 5 more years but there is no doubt that if he gets 5-6 rings, he can compete with Jordan as the best.


I completely agree. If he gets to 4 or 5, he can compete with the Magic and Kobe level. If he gets to 6, he can compete with MJ as the GOAT. He clearly has the ability to do so and has the team around him to do so. And if he really truly is as good as Kobe or Magic or MJ, he would achieve the level of success those guys did.

ThuglifeJ
02-15-2013, 05:48 PM
PSD

Kobe wins a ring: threads about Kobe being potentially now the GOAT and piles of posters agreeing.
Lebron wins a ring: he's not the next Jordan, he's even better, more unguardable..
Kobe hits some gamewinner: ..I take it back, you have to factor in how clutch Kobe is. dayum
Lebron has historic stat streak: Kobe and Jordan could never do that.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 05:48 PM
Lebron's team now is every bit as good as the Kobe/Shaq teams and better than the Kobe/Pau teams. He should be able to achieve the same amount of success, if not better than Kobe if you think he is indeed a better player.

So, you are forming my opinions for me now? Stop trying to justify everything, and setting up expectations. Kobe had championship help for a decade. Lemme know when Bron has that..

D-Leethal
02-15-2013, 05:49 PM
perfect response. For once LeBron didn't put his foot in his mouth haha

I wish the reporter followed up with MJ, 'So does that mean Bill Russell is better than yourself?'

MJ's response would have been quality televison.


I personally think Russell is overrated some. I have him at the end of my top 10, right with Barkley honestly. Bill was utterly useless on one side of the floor for so much of his career. LeBron basically said, if he wants to use rings as the only reason, why shouldn't we judge all greats on that?

Utterly useless?

He was the engine that ignited the Cousy fast break. His shot blocking, outlet passing, mobility and ability to put the ball on the floor MADE that offense.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 05:49 PM
i think he really cares what MJ thinks. you can tell he does when he tries to play it off, but it looks like it hurts his feelings. he's just a crazed MJ fan like alot of people at heart, so it's gotta sting a bit

wouldn't it get to you if the GOAT said that, even if its established that he is unlikeable and does this anytime a player is mentioned with him? That is one thing that made MJ so great. You were NOT going to be better than him if he had anything to say or do about it. MJ being MJ, Bron will end up blowing it off

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 05:50 PM
LBJ might end up with more regular season mvps than Jordan. they don't screw LeBron out of mvps like they did Michael (they got really bored with giving Mj mvps). LeBron gets them when he deserves them. and i'm not hating on LeBRon for that either, i think he'll get his 4th this season

ThuglifeJ
02-15-2013, 05:51 PM
Show me a superstar who won alone. Of course LeBron couldn't win without having roster support, and very good roster support at that. Neither did, or could, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Russell, or anyone who has won chips.

Point?

Yet guys like Carter, Tmac, Iverson get knocked constantly for not winning one...
go figure.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 05:51 PM
I wish the reporter followed up with MJ, 'So does that mean Bill Russell is better than yourself?'

MJ's response would have been quality televison.



Utterly useless?

He was the engine that ignited the Cousy fast break. His shot blocking, outlet passing, mobility and ability to put the ball on the floor MADE that offense.

Yes, offensively, he was pretty useless for many seasons. You can attempt to say his outlet passing and rebounding ignited the offense, but that doesn't mean he was an offensive player at all dude. Like I said, top 10ish still, but his rings are the clear definition and best example of how rings can make a player overrated by the masses.

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 05:51 PM
I completely agree. If he gets to 4 or 5, he can compete with the Magic and Kobe level. If he gets to 6, he can compete with MJ as the GOAT. He clearly has the ability to do so and has the team around him to do so. And if he really truly is as good as Kobe or Magic or MJ, he would achieve the level of success those guys did.

LeBron is above Kobe's level in terms of individual and team talent. Kobe just had the opportunity to play with great players for 3/4th of his career. LeBron had to endure 7 years of terrible management. It was an unrealistic setting for him to even compete with that team. The fact that he got to the finals is really shocking. I can't name one player who could've taken that team to the finals except MJ.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 05:51 PM
Yet guys like Carter, Tmac, Iverson get knocked constantly for not winning one...
go figure.

By who?

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 05:52 PM
Yet guys like Carter, Tmac, Iverson get knocked constantly for not winning one...
go figure.
Knocked constantly? No NBA superstar was scrutinized for not winning as much as LeBron.. T-Mac, Carter, and AI were never on LeBron's level. Not even MJ went through what LeBron survived.

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 05:52 PM
Yet guys like Carter, Tmac, Iverson get knocked constantly for not winning one...
go figure.
Knocked constantly? No NBA superstar was scrutinized for not winning as much as LeBron.. T-Mac, Carter, and AI were never on LeBron's level. Not even MJ went through what LeBron survived.

SwatTeam
02-15-2013, 05:52 PM
The reason this whole debate even started is because Jordan turned 50 and BSPN has been celebrating his birthday for the past 2 weeks. Its getting ridiculous. I think a majority of people (probably 95%) know MJ is the GOAT. I think a majority of people know that Lebron and Kobe aren't there yet - and in the latter case will never get there. What is with the debating?

This is a waste of time because football season is over, baseball hasn't started yet, basketball is in the middle of the season and there's nothing else controversial going on. BSPN is just trying to kill time. Don't fall into the trap and waste your time over topics you already know the answers to.

beliges
02-15-2013, 05:53 PM
So, you are forming my opinions for me now? Stop trying to justify everything, and setting up expectations. Kobe had championship help for a decade. Lemme know when Bron has that..

Lebron has championship help now and has done so for the past 3 seasons (including this one). I dont see Wade or Bosh leaving Miami so I think he will have this kind of help probably for the remainder of the decade. And why is it not a good thing to set up expectations. When you make a statement like Lebron is one of the greatests ever, or hes better than Kobe or Magic or could be the greatest ever, there are expectations he needs to achieve before that becomes a plausible sentiment. The expectations Lebron needs to achieve are the ones achieved by those great ones who have done it before him. He will not and cannot surpass any of them before exceeding those expectations. And now that he is on a championship caliber team, he has no excuses not to achieve those expectations.

bucketss
02-15-2013, 05:54 PM
I completely agree with you on the fact that nobody has done it alone. But, my point is, Lebron's on the best and most talented team in the league right now. He has the help Kobe had and MJ had and etc...On that basis, he should be able to achieve the same amount of success. It seems people are setting him up for if he falls short of winning 4 or 5 titles, by claiming he would be considered better than those that did it before him. My point is, if he is as good or better than Kobe, or Magic, then he should and will win 5 titles with better numbers. He certainly has the talent around him to get there and if he truly is as good or better, then he should, without excuse, get to that level.

okay we all know he needs to win chapionships but you don't think mvps matter and stats? 4 mvps + better stats + 3 nba finals mvps <--- that doesn't look like a better resume than kobe? i think he does, he will never pass mj but he can easily pass kobe in the next few years if he does what he is expected to do

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 05:55 PM
Michael did say LeBron is the man right now, so i dunno. i never heard him say he'd take Kobe over LeBron, he just said 5 beats 1, but LeBron is the best now. wasn't a clear cut answer

beliges
02-15-2013, 05:55 PM
LeBron is above Kobe's level in terms of individual and team talent. Kobe just had the opportunity to play with great players for 3/4th of his career. LeBron had to endure 7 years of terrible management. It was an unrealistic setting for him to even compete with that team. The fact that he got to the finals is really shocking. I can't name one player who could've taken that team to the finals except MJ.

Kobe had the opportunity to play with Shaq for the first 7 years of his career. After that, he played with Pau and Lamar. Hardly anything significantly great. This Miami team is better than the Kobe/Pau Lakers in terms of talent. If anyone had the greatest amount of talent it would be Magic.

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 05:56 PM
The reason this whole debate even started is because Jordan turned 50 and BSPN has been celebrating his birthday for the past 2 weeks. Its getting ridiculous. I think a majority of people (probably 95%) know MJ is the GOAT. I think a majority of people know that Lebron and Kobe aren't there yet - and in the latter case will never get there. What is with the debating?

This is a waste of time because football season is over, baseball hasn't started yet, basketball is in the middle of the season and there's nothing else controversial going on. BSPN is just trying to kill time. Don't fall into the trap and waste your time over topics you already know the answers to.

Who cares how it started? It's a legitimate debate in the NBA. And the question was if he'd rather choose Kobe or LeBron.

kubernetes
02-15-2013, 05:56 PM
Yeah, Jordan's a jerk, but he's got the rings and accomplishments. I think LeBron is easily the best player in the world, but he's put himself in the spot of having to demur when a great champion says stuff like that. Proclaiming that you'll win 8 rings before you've even got one means that it's going to be long time before LeBron can really respond.

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 05:57 PM
Man, Kobe never did what LeBron is doing right now. I don't know what you are talking about. Scoring 81 points is impressive but not enough to the point where you ignore LeBron's triple doubles and carrying his team to the finals. Kobe was never better than LeBron except for maybe 2-3 of LeBron's early years. Since 2008, there is no doubt who the best has been.truth

beliges
02-15-2013, 05:57 PM
okay we all know he needs to win chapionships but you don't think mvps matter and stats? 4 mvps + better stats + 3 nba finals mvps <--- that doesn't look like a better resume than kobe? i think he does, he will never pass mj but he can easily pass kobe in the next few years if he does what he is expected to do

He could pass Kobe in a few more years. If he gets to 4 titles and wins another 2 Finals MVPs, one can make an argument that he has passed Kobe I guess. But he needs to win another 3 titles in my opinion before he could do that. So again, bottom line is winning. Look, if Lebron continues to win title after title after title, he could surpass everybody. If he truly is the greatest to ever play, then he should have no problem doing that. So lets see.

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 05:57 PM
Kobe had the opportunity to play with Shaq for the first 7 years of his career. After that, he played with Pau and Lamar. Hardly anything significantly great. This Miami team is better than the Kobe/Pau Lakers in terms of talent. If anyone had the greatest amount of talent it would be Magic.

Pau, Bynum, Fisher, Metta, Lamar...

Meanwhile LeBron has Zydrunas, Mo Williams, and Wally Sczherbiak.

Yeah, LeBron does have a team now and he's 1 for 2, possibly 2 for 3 if he can keep it up this year.

But as you said, Kobe won with a prime Shaq for 7 years. Are you saying a prime LeBron and prime Shaq couldn't win 3 chips? They would win 5+ because LeBron is unselfish.

ThuglifeJ
02-15-2013, 05:58 PM
The reason this whole debate even started is because Jordan turned 50 and BSPN has been celebrating his birthday for the past 2 weeks. Its getting ridiculous. I think a majority of people (probably 95%) know MJ is the GOAT. I think a majority of people know that Lebron and Kobe aren't there yet - and in the latter case will never get there. What is with the debating?

This is a waste of time because football season is over, baseball hasn't started yet, basketball is in the middle of the season and there's nothing else controversial going on. BSPN is just trying to kill time. Don't fall into the trap and waste your time over topics you already know the answers to.

Nailed it

mngopher35
02-15-2013, 06:00 PM
I completely agree with you on the fact that nobody has done it alone. But, my point is, Lebron's on the best and most talented team in the league right now. He has the help Kobe had and MJ had and etc...On that basis, he should be able to achieve the same amount of success. It seems people are setting him up for if he falls short of winning 4 or 5 titles, by claiming he would be considered better than those that did it before him. My point is, if he is as good or better than Kobe, or Magic, then he should and will win 5 titles with better numbers. He certainly has the talent around him to get there and if he truly is as good or better, then he should, without excuse, get to that level.

If his teams talent with the heat lasts for another 7 plus years then I agree. If he has like 7 more years with championship support he should end with 5ish titles out of the 10 years of championship support. Kobe has had an amazing team roster for like 14 years of his career, magic had it almost his entire career as well. Lebron has currently had that help for 2 years (this being the third).

Let's wait and see how everything plays out but My guess is the players you mentioned will have had superior support for a longer time. If he gets to 3 finals mvps within the next 4-5 years I see him having an amazing argument for being rated over kobe. At that point kobe would have Lebron in rings but really 2 rings with shaq being in his prime won't make up for Lebron leading so many other areas (at least to me).

bucketss
02-15-2013, 06:02 PM
He could pass Kobe in a few more years. If he gets to 4 titles and wins another 2 Finals MVPs, one can make an argument that he has passed Kobe I guess. But he needs to win another 3 titles in my opinion before he could do that. So again, bottom line is winning. Look, if Lebron continues to win title after title after title, he could surpass everybody. If he truly is the greatest to ever play, then he should have no problem doing that. So lets see.

so basically you're saying his regular season mvps and stats would have no impact on his rankings? 32k points,5 mvps, 3 finals mvps and still not passed kobe? i doubt it.

BigCityofDreams
02-15-2013, 06:05 PM
I just watched the report regarding LeBron on this matter. He's 100% correct but he respects his predecessors enough to not insult them. It sounded like he did admit he was better than Kobe except that Kobe had the better team and management.

That's the way it is sometimes. It's the luck of the draw.

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 06:09 PM
Kobe had the opportunity to play with Shaq for the first 7 years of his career. After that, he played with Pau and Lamar. Hardly anything significantly great. This Miami team is better than the Kobe/Pau Lakers in terms of talent. If anyone had the greatest amount of talent it would be Magic.Gasol will be in the hall of fame, book it. he was always a great player, just ignored because Memphis was only a decent playoff team, & got bounced in the first round everytime (Gasol alone basically as their leader). he was absolutely great in the playoff runs with LA. that's why i was pissed, & worried as hell when they traded for Gasol, cause i knew what was gonna happen (because how good he was)

then there was Bynum & a prime Odom too, Ariza, Artest, etc. they were stacked. it's amazing they only won 2. they wouldn't beat the all time best teams like the Bulls, 80s Lakers, & 80s Celtics, but they were loaded

mngopher35
02-15-2013, 06:10 PM
so basically you're saying his regular season mvps and stats would have no impact on his rankings? 32k points,5 mvps, 3 finals mvps and still not passed kobe? i doubt it.

These are my thoughts as well. Unless Lebron really doesn't last long or has a career ending injury in a couple years if he gets 3 finals mvp's I don't see Kobe having much of a case. At that point like the only thing he will have over Lebron is 2 rings where he wasn't even the man while Lebron leads in stats/production and other accolades like mvps and finals mvp.

zn23
02-15-2013, 06:10 PM
#lgbt

jakey
02-15-2013, 06:15 PM
What's wrong with what Jordan says?

What's drafting Kwame Brown got to do with this?

He is entitled to his own opinion.

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 06:15 PM
i'd like to see the Heat win 4 titles in a row. would be cool, we've never seen 4 straight in modern times

DanG
02-15-2013, 06:33 PM
I have a bad team - I'll take LeBron
I have a good team- 50/50 for me

BigCityofDreams
02-15-2013, 06:43 PM
I personally think Russell is overrated some. I have him at the end of my top 10, right with Barkley honestly. Bill was utterly useless on one side of the floor for so much of his career. LeBron basically said, if he wants to use rings as the only reason, why shouldn't we judge all greats on that?

Don't say that to anyone that watched Russell play or was raised on him. I'm listening to a radio host right now talk about Russell's era and today's NBA. "Russell is the number 1 center of all time. The league was harder back then. Look at how many rebounds Russell averaged. The league is watered down today. It was harder to play back then as opposed to Jordan's era. Every team had a big man. Every team was great and had a bench."

You have a good grasp on the game how far off is the radio host?

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 09:11 PM
Don't say that to anyone that watched Russell play or was raised on him. I'm listening to a radio host right now talk about Russell's era and today's NBA. "Russell is the number 1 center of all time. The league was harder back then. Look at how many rebounds Russell averaged. The league is watered down today. It was harder to play back then as opposed to Jordan's era. Every team had a big man. Every team was great and had a bench."

You have a good grasp on the game how far off is the radio host?

how was it more difficult to play in an era where one team hoarded most the talent haha?

Not buying that at all. I would have called the radio station and debated him.

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 09:52 PM
i think the late 50s 60s & through the mid 70s was the weakest. dudes averaged 25 RPG easily. like did anyone box out back then? the game was still evolving, & fully evolved into modern basketball by the 80s

hidalgo
02-15-2013, 09:54 PM
i mean in the early 70s Dr J avg 15 RPG. not a chance he'd have done that in the 80s, 90s or now

same with Kareem, & tons of others. their RPG went way down in the 80s, once it became the modern game

those 80s & 90s PFs & Cs sure as hell wouldn't have let Wilt get anywhere near 50 ppg either. but i do think Wilt was ahead of his time & could have got 28-30 ppg in his best years in modern times

BigCityofDreams
02-15-2013, 11:53 PM
i mean in the early 70s Dr J avg 15 RPG. not a chance he'd have done that in the 80s

same with Kareem, & tons of others. their RPG went way down in the 80s, once it became the modern game

those 80s & 90s PFs & Cs sure as hell wouldn't have let Wilt get anywhere near 50 ppg either. but i do think Wilt was ahead of his time & could have got 28-30 ppg in his best years in modern times

lol he was kinda getting at Kareem today because "he didn't rebound on the level of Russell or Wilt."

Question and everyone can answer how would you rate the quality of the league through the yrs in terms of the players. How good or bad was the offensive and defense in the league?

50s
60s
70s
80s
90s
00s
09-present day

Or if you would rather do one specific yr to another instead of just the decades that is fine as well. Ex: 55-67

BigCityofDreams
02-16-2013, 12:36 AM
how was it more difficult to play in an era where one team hoarded most the talent haha?

Not buying that at all. I would have called the radio station and debated him.

When a caller mentioned how there were only teams on those early championship runs by the Celtics the host basically said it didn't matter because every team was great. How is it harder back then when you have 8 teams in the league, one team has the best coach, a loaded roster, first round byes, and probably played in the most nonathletic era in team history. Here is the number 877-337-6666 he comes on WFAN Mon-Fri from 1-6. Whenever you have the chance in the future try to give him a call I'd love for someone to debate him. When a young caller states how easy it was back then he dismisses them as being to young to understand the game.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2013, 12:40 AM
When a caller mentioned how there were only teams on those early championship runs by the Celtics the host basically said it didn't matter because every team was great. How is it harder back then when you have 8 teams in the league, one team has the best coach, a loaded roster, first round byes, and probably played in the most nonathletic era in team history. Here is the number 877-337-6666 he comes on WFAN Mon-Fri from 1-6. Whenever you have the chance in the future try to give him a call I'd love for someone to debate him. When a young caller states how easy it was back then he dismisses them as being to young to understand the game.

well, I am not young haha, but I don't listen to that station, and probably have no perspective of what that host speaks of. I think Houston has a great radio show on 790 am, but I still disagree with a few things they say. My expertise would get destroyed in baseball, football, gold, or any other sport those guys are paid to talk about, but I know more about basketball than any radio guy I have heard.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2013, 12:40 AM
I may call anyways..

BigCityofDreams
02-16-2013, 01:01 AM
well, I am not young haha, but I don't listen to that station, and probably have no perspective of what that host speaks of. I think Houston has a great radio show on 790 am, but I still disagree with a few things they say. My expertise would get destroyed in baseball, football, gold, or any other sport those guys are paid to talk about, but I know more about basketball than any radio guy I have heard.

You do have extension knowledge about the game. I don't always agree with what you post but I respect your opinions about the game. The host has seen and followed the game for a long time but he has a tendency to get caught up with the past. He gets into basketball discussions during these months because the NFL is over and MLB is a month or so away. This also happens around playoff time

OceanSpray
02-16-2013, 01:19 AM
What's wrong with what Jordan says?

What's drafting Kwame Brown got to do with this?

He is entitled to his own opinion.

It means Jordan is biased and doesn't know what he's talking about.

hidalgo
02-16-2013, 01:22 AM
lol he was kinda getting at Kareem today because "he didn't rebound on the level of Russell or Wilt."

Question and everyone can answer how would you rate the quality of the league through the yrs in terms of the players. How good or bad was the offensive and defense in the league?

50s
60s
70s
80s
90s
00s
09-present day

Or if you would rather do one specific yr to another instead of just the decades that is fine as well. Ex: 55-67i can't really comment much about the 50s-70s (i was born in 79), but alot of the footage looks like the game hadn't reached it's full potential (& the odd rebound stats, & Wilt's 50 ppg, Oscar's triple double avg for a full season with 30+ ppg, etc kinda prove it). i think late 70s to early 80s it finally became the modern game. mainly the 80s-now. the 1992 dream team is a major example of basketball at it's peak

Chronz
02-16-2013, 01:43 AM
The reason this whole debate even started is because Jordan turned 50 and BSPN has been celebrating his birthday for the past 2 weeks. Its getting ridiculous. I think a majority of people (probably 95%) know MJ is the GOAT. I think a majority of people know that Lebron and Kobe aren't there yet - and in the latter case will never get there. What is with the debating?

This is a waste of time because football season is over, baseball hasn't started yet, basketball is in the middle of the season and there's nothing else controversial going on. BSPN is just trying to kill time. Don't fall into the trap and waste your time over topics you already know the answers to.
Well put

DODGERS&LAKERS
02-16-2013, 01:48 AM
I think MJ is rooting for the lesser if two evils. He knows Kobe can't touch him. But he sees that 27 year old monster and feels threatened. I'm a big Kobe guy and I know this not to be true.

hidalgo
02-16-2013, 02:06 AM
i think Olajuwon is better than Tim Duncan, yet Timmy went 4-0 in the finals as the best player on the Spurs, & the Dream went 2-1 as the Rockets best player. Still i'd take Olajuwon (not taking anything away from Timmy the great)

so LeBron's point about X number of titles is valid. it's not always that simple

Cal827
02-16-2013, 02:24 AM
I came in here for the llullz of seeing some of the washy Laker fans praise MJs opinion on this.... even though they condemned the **** out of him when he said that Kobe "might" be a top 10 Shooting guard of all time :laugh:

OceanSpray
02-16-2013, 02:26 AM
i think Olajuwon is better than Tim Duncan, yet Timmy went 4-0 in the finals as the best player on the Spurs, & the Dream went 2-1 as the Rockets best player. Still i'd take Olajuwon (not taking anything away from Timmy the great)

so LeBron's point about X number of titles is valid. it's not always that simple

Yeah, Dream is a top 5 player in my books based off talent and ability.

CTCUBBIES
02-16-2013, 02:26 AM
lmao I doubt it. Jordan wouldn't know talent if it smacked him in the face.

But you would? You would have drafted Kwame #1 just like every other GM in the league. Stop using revisionist history. I agree Lebron is better than Kobe but it isn't inconceivable to think Kobe is greater than Lebron. Most of LBJ's accomplishment's have been in the regular season when half the players are high / hungover or plain don't care.

redhorse
02-16-2013, 02:27 AM
I don't understand why people are so butt hurt in what Jordan said. Saw the interview he's absolutely right. As far as dominating right now it's lebron,but in terms of a whole career he's going with Kobe rightfully so. Ppl are so fast to call lbj the greatest of all time already, but Jordan and Kobe played at the top of their game till the end of their careers. Im not saying lbj can't and if he keeps this up and plays this level past his 30's like mj and Kobe did then u can put him there... Personally I don't see it happening...

OceanSpray
02-16-2013, 02:28 AM
But you would? You would have drafted Kwame #1 just like every other GM in the league. Stop using revisionist history. I agree Lebron is better than Kobe but it isn't inconceivable to think Kobe is greater than Lebron. Most of LBJ's accomplishment's have been in the regular season when half the players are high / hungover or plain don't care.

"High, hungover, or plain don't care."

Yeah, let's discredit everything they have done.

CTCUBBIES
02-16-2013, 02:32 AM
"High, hungover, or plain don't care."

Yeah, let's discredit everything they have done.

Sorry didn't mean to come across this way. I agree you cannot discount what people have done - I just think that is how Jordan thinks. I don't believe he respects regular season accomplishments like this. That is not how I feel.

CTCUBBIES
02-16-2013, 02:36 AM
Another way I can express what I'm trying to say is that I bet Jordan would never even mention when he got 10 triple doubles in 11 games in '89 or whatever. Wouldn't even register because it was regular season and meaningless yet everyone is trying to make a huge deal of the stretch Lebron just went through in the regular season. I give Lebron all the credit in the world but I just don't think it is that meaningful to MJ unless its when everyone is going full bore, i.e. playoffs.

OceanSpray
02-16-2013, 02:49 AM
Another way I can express what I'm trying to say is that I bet Jordan would never even mention when he got 10 triple doubles in 11 games in '89 or whatever. Wouldn't even register because it was regular season and meaningless yet everyone is trying to make a huge deal of the stretch Lebron just went through in the regular season. I give Lebron all the credit in the world but I just don't think it is that meaningful to MJ unless its when everyone is going full bore, i.e. playoffs.

You bet is very hypothetical. The media is everywhere. NBA has never been bigger. It means much more right now since more fans are available.

The only reason we're not hearing about Jordan's regular season stats is because it was so long ago. Back then, they were probably going crazy over it.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2013, 02:50 AM
Yeah, Dream is a top 5 player in my books based off talent and ability.

where is he on your all time list? I have him around 6-7ish

zn23
02-16-2013, 02:52 AM
There is definitely a little bit of fear in MJ when it comes to LeBron.

OceanSpray
02-16-2013, 02:56 AM
where is he on your all time list? I have him around 6-7ish

I mean if we disregard the accolades, he's probably the 4th or 5th best player in my book. Just very skilled and has the best moves.

Hawkeye15
02-16-2013, 02:57 AM
I mean if we disregard the accolades, he's probably the 4th or 5th best player in my book. Just very skilled and has the best moves.

stop disregarding everything. Where does he rank for you dude?

OceanSpray
02-16-2013, 02:59 AM
stop disregarding everything. Where does he rank for you dude?

Why can't I disregard? He's the 4th or 5th best in my books but if you want to bring the rings into question, I think he's in the 7th or 8th. Had to put disregard or else someone is going to quote me and say "But he only had two rings."

Hawkeye15
02-16-2013, 03:05 AM
Why can't I disregard? He's the 4th or 5th best in my books but if you want to bring the rings into question, I think he's in the 7th or 8th. Had to put disregard or else someone is going to quote me and say "But he only had two rings."

I am simply asking where he ranks in your rankings..

OceanSpray
02-16-2013, 03:05 AM
I am simply asking where he ranks in your rankings..

I said 4th or 5th... I don't see the issue. I only mentioned the disregard part because I know someone out there is going to nitpick and say Hakeem only had two rings

b@llhog24
02-16-2013, 03:07 AM
Doesn't MJ consider Hakeem the greatest C ever? Because that would go against his whole "Player A has more rings than Player B, so therefore player A is better" train of thought.


perfect response. For once LeBron didn't put his foot in his mouth haha

Great response, then again you're gonna have people saying that "he shouldn't have said nothing at all, etc" Bron just can't win man.

OceanSpray
02-16-2013, 03:09 AM
Doesn't MJ consider Hakeem the greatest C ever? Because that would go against his whole "Player A has more rings than Player B, so therefore player A is better" train of thought.



Great response, then again you're gonna have people saying that "he shouldn't have said nothing at all, etc" Bron just can't win man.

MJ thinks Horry is better than him too lol

if Bron didn't say anything, ESPN first take would say he was too scared and turned to the frozen one.

magic0320
02-16-2013, 03:58 AM
lol idk why people are so defensive about this. you never know how good lebron will be at his 30s without crazy body doing all the work instead of basketball skills. but he may avg like 12 apg and less poitns.

DanG
02-16-2013, 04:11 AM
IMO All-time rankings when they both retire

LeBron
at worst - top 10
most likely - top 5
at best - top 2

Kobe

at worst - top 10
most likely - top 7-9
at best - top 5-6

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-16-2013, 04:20 AM
Lebron fans mad haha

This . Lmfao! You bron fans are class A comedy.

Faneik
02-16-2013, 04:41 AM
Kwame
Adam Morrison

he was the best at playing the game, evaluating talent not so much

prime lebron > prime kobe any day of the week

Baller1
02-16-2013, 04:45 AM
This is MJ saying:

"****, Lebron is well on his way to becoming the greatest to ever touch a basketball... Let me use my legendary name to spite Lebron's greatness and pretend like Kobe holds a torch to him".

Andrew32
02-16-2013, 04:49 AM
Jordan scurred.
lol jk.

I really don't see Lebron on pace to surpass let alone equal Jordan so he shouldn't be.

giants73756
02-16-2013, 05:03 AM
IMO All-time rankings when they both retire

LeBron
at worst - top 10
most likely - top 5
at best - top 2

Kobe

at worst - top 10
most likely - top 7-9
at best - top 5-6

This is accurate, and really shows the intentions behind Jordan's words. MJ knows that only LeBron can challenge him for the title of best basketball player ever. He's trying to do what he can to make people keep thinking he's the best. James is only 28 years old and has a lot of time to add on to his legacy.

As a Bulls fan, I'd just like to say that Jordan is being ********. If he thinks the most rings makes you the best, then he's tied for the 10th best basketball player of all time. James Loscutoff and Frank Ramsey are better than him.

Jahari Kavi
02-16-2013, 05:21 AM
the media was very different then. they didn't try to nit pick every little word anyone said, & get all crazy about a good stretch of games. MJ's 37.1 ppg season, his triple double streak, his 35ppg on 535%fg weren't hyped up to insane levels like now days. there was no pti or around the horn, opinion shows, & sports center just basically told what happened in the games & moved on (didn't obsess over things like today), no twitter, no face book, no internet. if MJ played through his best years today, they'd go bonkers, & i'm sure he could get 40ppg on 55% with the rules today (he got 37.1 ppg with handchecking, & much tougher rules back then, 2.9 away from 40ppg, so i have no doubt he could get 40ppg today)

i can see why most would think this, but I disagree completely....MJ's prime came during a time where the "highlight" became popular. As great as he was, he was (and in a lot of ways today) is the living definition of hype. People were calling him the best ever after his 2nd and 3rd titles, which is why I don't think it's disrespectful for people to say the same of Lebron, because of his recent success. The NBA (like all major sports) has had that element of "hype" surrounding it probably since the 80's with Magic vs. Bird. Hype of the early 90's is why we have folks reminiscing about Reggie Miller calling him an all time great, lol......

The second point of scoring avg. is hard too gauge. I personally feel like the whole "hand checking" era argument is overrated (just like how tough defensively the Knicks were during that time period), especially when you factor in modern zone defense, which is harder to penetrate against. You could make a legitimate argument that the defense from big men was far superior then than now though. However there were great players in the past, but there are also great players today that could be just as dominate in those eras. Positions 1-3 are certainly more talented now than they ever have been over the past 6-7 years. No one would ever admit it, but as far as wing competition goes Jordan played against a bunch of stiffs during his peaks years for the most part. This isn't to say that star perimeter players over the last 6-7 years haven't played against stiffs either, but seriously go look at the 2-3 position during..let's say.....90-93 when MJ was probably at his apex (where the physical meshes with the mental) and tell me exactly why it is so much better than what we've seen in recent history.......Drexler, Nique, Dumars, Mullin, Manning and Mitch come to mind off the top...but after that it is pretty damn average to say the least. Are they any better than what Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Melo, Pierce, or Wade have been over the past 3-4 years? Hell are they even equivalent from a pure talent standpoint? That answer should be pretty obvious. Jordan always states that the guys who played him the best defensively were Maxwell and Dumars. As much of a child hood hero Max is there is no way you can convince me that he played better D than a Ron Artest in his prime, Bruce Bowen, or Shane Battier.....To put it simply the biggest hype by sports fans is hype of the past. I am not trying to downplay the era of the late 80's-90's because it was the era that I grew up watching, but I still can sit back and look at things from a fairly accurate perspective.

Jahari Kavi
02-16-2013, 05:41 AM
Doesn't MJ consider Hakeem the greatest C ever? Because that would go against his whole "Player A has more rings than Player B, so therefore player A is better" train of thought.



Great response, then again you're gonna have people saying that "he shouldn't have said nothing at all, etc" Bron just can't win man.

Yep...sure does...funny how the whole ring argument isn't relevant there, lol.

bluefire7002
02-16-2013, 08:26 AM
This is MJ saying:

"****, Lebron is well on his way to becoming the greatest to ever touch a basketball... Let me use my legendary name to spite Lebron's greatness and pretend like Kobe holds a torch to him".

lmao are you serious??? NO matter what Lebron does at this point, will he surpass Jordan. Scratch that, maybe if Lebron wins the next 4 titles while winning 4 mvps then there will be a discussion. Jordan ain't stupid either, I'm sure he spoke what he truly felt when he said this.

Guppyfighter
02-16-2013, 08:51 AM
People have this almost cult-like affinity for the Jordan "brand." I honestly want Lebron to surpass MJ in every way. Jordan was a ****ing dick and is a ****ing dick.

redhorse
02-16-2013, 09:25 AM
Did anybody see the interview?.. Jordan is right... lbj is the most dominant now , but Kobe has been playing at a very high level throughout his whole career... like Jordan did well past there 30s.. Jordan went out on top and Kobe is still top 3 player in this league at 34... ppl r so quick to give this guy the throne already it's annoying.. let's see if LeBron can do what he does at 30 and above like mike did and Kobe did...

DanG
02-16-2013, 10:19 AM
This is MJ saying:

"****, Lebron is well on his way to becoming the greatest to ever touch a basketball... Let me use my legendary name to spite Lebron's greatness and pretend like Kobe holds a torch to him".

You really think LeBron will be the GOAT?

justinnum1
02-16-2013, 12:27 PM
voulgaris
Why does anyone care that MJ would take Kobe over Lebron? You guys are aware of MJ's draft and trading record right?

I get that he was the greatest player of all time, but he also drafted A.Morrison, he doesn't have a clue who is better or worse. Trust me.

If I was LBJ I'd be more concerned if MJ preferred me to Kobe.
lol

Baller1
02-16-2013, 12:31 PM
You really think LeBron will be the GOAT?

I think that he's on track to be. He dominates the game in evey single way a basketball player possibly can. And it's consistent as hell.

With a few more championship wins and Finals MVP, I think there's a good shot that we're watching the new GOAT in his prime.

RLundi
02-16-2013, 12:45 PM
Michael Jordan is an idiot.

85BearsDefense
02-16-2013, 12:50 PM
He knows Kobe has no shot of passing him.... He choose him for that reason. Jordan is a bit of a dick to be honest and will be looking up at James before all is said and done. James will be the best player ever...He is already more unguardable than Jordan.

I take It you've never watched Jordan live, don't think Lebron could ever average 37.9 PPG let alone in his 3rd year IIRC. But your right Lebron way more unguardable.

85BearsDefense
02-16-2013, 12:52 PM
Wouldn't it have been better if Jordan would have said, Kobe has two finals Mvp's, because for Jordan to say he got 5 rings, doesn't really mean anything, because 3 of those are Shaq Finals Mvp's.

Thats like Jordan saying, Horry has 7 rings, his money.

Everyone celebrates Jordan because he won 6 championships & 6 Finals Mvp's... Everyone always word it just like that, so why not the same for Kobe.

Put Wade or Lbj Next to prime Shaq, Jordan would be saying right not.... Well Wade/Lbj has 7 rings, so I would pick them.

(Note: I am not a Lbj fan.... I am a HEAT fan)

So Kobe averaging 27 in the finals was all Shaq good try Lebron troll.

koberulesall
02-16-2013, 12:59 PM
He knows Kobe has no shot of passing him.... He choose him for that reason. Jordan is a bit of a dick to be honest and will be looking up at James before all is said and done. James will be the best player ever...He is already more unguardable than Jordan.

what a dumbass hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i bet you think the wwf is real too hahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!! u watch guys grab eachother in little panties hahahahahahahah!!!!

85BearsDefense
02-16-2013, 01:01 PM
God people on this site are just plain stupid how about you interpret his quote. He is using the ring argument with players that he thinks the battle between is so close that's what it comes down to. He doesn't truly believe rings over everything but with 2 super talented freaks that's what he used. No Horry is not better because he has 7 rings get that garbage out of here.

85BearsDefense
02-16-2013, 01:02 PM
You really think LeBron will be the GOAT?

I think that he's on track to be. He dominates the game in evey single way a basketball player possibly can. And it's consistent as hell.

With a few more championship wins and Finals MVP, I think there's a good shot that we're watching the new GOAT in his prime.

I can tell You've never watched Jordan.

BigCityofDreams
02-16-2013, 02:17 PM
God people on this site are just plain stupid how about you interpret his quote. He is using the ring argument with players that he thinks the battle between is so close that's what it comes down to. He doesn't truly believe rings over everything but with 2 super talented freaks that's what he used. No Horry is not better because he has 7 rings get that garbage out of here.

I can't believe ppl use the Horry argument. Robert Horry was a role player who never made an all-star team

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-16-2013, 02:21 PM
Comment after comment about How Lebron is already challanging Jordans goat status. :facepalm: I'm 100 percent convinced most people on this site are minors. You guys have the nerve to say Kobe fans are bad.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-16-2013, 02:26 PM
I think that he's on track to be. He dominates the game in evey single way a basketball player possibly can. And it's consistent as hell.

With a few more championship wins and Finals MVP, I think there's a good shot that we're watching the new GOAT in his prime.

:facepalm:

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-16-2013, 02:33 PM
I can tell You've never watched Jordan.

^ 80 percent of psd hasn't. Jordan was leagues better than Lebron. We are in the weakest defensive era Since the 60's. Lebrons stats look better because of this reason. In 30 years some kid will average 40/5/7 due to rule changes .We are slowly moving into a pure offensive entertainment league.

Jahari Kavi
02-16-2013, 02:52 PM
^ 80 percent of psd hasn't. Jordan was leagues better than Lebron. We are in the weakest defensive era Since the 60's. Lebrons stats look better because of this reason. In 30 years some kid will average 40/5/7 due to rule changes .We are slowly moving into a pure offensive entertainment league.

I watched plenty of Jordan...No one was saying that people were crazy when they were calling Jordan the best ever in 93 even though he hadn't accomplished as much as other greats.......Save that argument....Talent is talent and to say that Jordan is "leaps and bounds" better than Lebron is the ultimate case of falling victim to nostalgia...Lebron does certain things better than Jordan ever did..It's understandable why someone would say Jordan is better (and at this point in their careers I'd choose Jordan slightly), but I hate when people treat Jordan like some untouchable demigod. Lebron and Kobe are on his level and can be compared, anyone who disagrees is either

a.) a MJ ___hugger
b.) old and bitter
c.) a young person who never watched Jordan and is trying to impress the old and bitter crowd


Besides I don't even think Jordan is the best ever and have never understood why he is the gold standard....

poleandreel
02-16-2013, 02:54 PM
^ 80 percent of psd hasn't. Jordan was leagues better than Lebron. We are in the weakest defensive era Since the 60's. Lebrons stats look better because of this reason. In 30 years some kid will average 40/5/7 due to rule changes .We are slowly moving into a pure offensive entertainment league.

You are so wrong it is insane. The league is as efficient as ever and pace has decrease significantly. Not to mention there are wayyyy less 20ppg scorers now than there were years ago.

Also, your sig is dumb. Everything that person said that you quoted is accurate a true. You trying to put him on blast is hilarious because it just makes you look stupid for supporting an inefficient player who has had more help than anyone else in history.

LOOTERX9
02-16-2013, 03:05 PM
Jordan used Kobe as a buffer between himself and Lebron. Mj is saying lebron is not even better than kobe so how on earth can he be better than me..

kntresistheheat
02-16-2013, 03:08 PM
Lebron response was:

“(Jordan) said he would take Kobe over me because … five rings are better than one, and the last time he checked, five is better than one. At the end of the day, rings don’t always define someone’s career. If that’s the case, then I’d sit up here and say I would take (Bill) Russell over Jordan. But I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t take Russell over Jordan. Russell has 11 rings. Jordan has six. I wouldn’t do that.” – LeBron James

Well said lebron!

zn23
02-16-2013, 03:33 PM
Lebron response was:

“(Jordan) said he would take Kobe over me because … five rings are better than one, and the last time he checked, five is better than one. At the end of the day, rings don’t always define someone’s career. If that’s the case, then I’d sit up here and say I would take (Bill) Russell over Jordan. But I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t take Russell over Jordan. Russell has 11 rings. Jordan has six. I wouldn’t do that.” – LeBron James

Well said lebron!

Larry Holmes once that Muhammad Ali only liked someone if Ali was at the top and they were below him. But as soon as they emerged and got close to him he broke ties with them.

I think Jordan feels the same way. I think he knows that LeBron is the only active player out there that has the best chance of catching up to and surpassing him. Not saying he will, but he's clearly more of a threat than Kobe ever was to catching MJ. So obviously MJ will prop up Kobe to put LeBron down.

kntresistheheat
02-16-2013, 03:39 PM
I'm a huge Jordan fan but I guess ever since Jordan has become a "Witness" he has become a "Hater"

bucketss
02-16-2013, 03:43 PM
^ 80 percent of psd hasn't. Jordan was leagues better than Lebron. We are in the weakest defensive era Since the 60's. Lebrons stats look better because of this reason. In 30 years some kid will average 40/5/7 due to rule changes .We are slowly moving into a pure offensive entertainment league.

i don't know if you're trolling or if you're really this clueless smh

lamzoka
02-16-2013, 03:48 PM
MJ is just afraid of the idea of being pass by LeBron

King P
02-16-2013, 04:18 PM
Lebron response was:

“(Jordan) said he would take Kobe over me because … five rings are better than one, and the last time he checked, five is better than one. At the end of the day, rings don’t always define someone’s career. If that’s the case, then I’d sit up here and say I would take (Bill) Russell over Jordan. But I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t take Russell over Jordan. Russell has 11 rings. Jordan has six. I wouldn’t do that.” – LeBron James

Well said lebron!
Lebron is correct.

The "Player A had a better career than Player B because he had more titles" is an extremely flawed way of comparing players' careers, especially when Horry's titles throw a wrench in that logic and they have to then qualify their statement with "but I was talking about star players, you gotta be the best on your team when you win those titles"

People wanna have it both ways. And you can't.

You can't knock great players like Barkley, Malone, Ewing, etc. for not having rings, and then not want to give Horry credit when he has 7 rings and was a key factor in almost all of the title wins.

Either you live by your argument that rings/titles determine whether a player was great, or you die by that. You can't have it both ways.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-16-2013, 04:19 PM
I think MJ is rooting for the lesser if two evils. He knows Kobe can't touch him. But he sees that 27 year old monster and feels threatened. I'm a big Kobe guy and I know this not to be true.

Kobe at lebrons age was also being talked and compared to Jordan day and night, even mark Jackson said he was gonna go down as the best ever. I feel like lebrons being talked about so much because he just recently won a championship and is on a hot streak

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-16-2013, 04:29 PM
Jordan used Kobe as a buffer between himself and Lebron. Mj is saying lebron is not even better than kobe so how on earth can he be better than me..

It's true though lebron still has a long way to go to surpass Kobe

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-16-2013, 04:30 PM
@blazersedge: Gary Payton was Team Kobe Bryant > LeBron James: "I still think Kobe is a great basketball player and the best basketball player right now."

Lebron who?

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-16-2013, 04:41 PM
IMO All-time rankings when they both retire

LeBron
at worst - top 10
most likely - top 5
at best - top 2

Kobe

at worst - top 10
most likely - top 7-9
at best - top 5-6

Kobe is borderline top 5 already he'll be top 3-5 with 1 more ring when it's all said and done

CHANGO
02-16-2013, 04:45 PM
@blazersedge: Gary Payton was Team Kobe Bryant > LeBron James: "I still think Kobe is a great basketball player and the best basketball player right now."

Lebron who?

Sad thing... Is you really believe that!

jchase3
02-16-2013, 04:50 PM
I really don't understand why this is getting so much press... overall career wise Kobe is better. End of story.

zn23
02-16-2013, 04:53 PM
@blazersedge: Gary Payton was Team Kobe Bryant > LeBron James: "I still think Kobe is a great basketball player and the best basketball player right now."

Lebron who?

The guy who owns Kobe in all their matchups?

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-16-2013, 05:09 PM
The guy who owns Kobe in all their matchups?

I didn't know Kobe guarded lebron and vice versa. Anyways in the last week
Not only Jordan has said they would prefer Kobe
So did wade well wade and popovich actually said he was the best of his era and Payton still thinks Kobe is better then lebron still
It just goes to show you that NBA players and coaches etc. don't care as much about stats as 15 yr olds on psd... But yes Jordan is jealous of lebron I'm sure lol fact is everyone knows how much more talented Kobe was, lebron is just a pure freak of nature. Kobe>lebron forever and ever hahaha

justinnum1
02-16-2013, 05:12 PM
Right now Lebron>kobe and its not a debate at all. For their careers, no one knows right now. Lebron is just entering his prime.

Kobe homers that want to say Kobe>lebron because 5>1 well no ****. Lebron just won his first. But make no mistake, kobe is not close to the basketball player lebron is right now. Swap kobe and lebron and the lakers are a top 4 seed, maybe even top 2.

MaloDaw9
02-16-2013, 05:12 PM
Kobe Bryant has been intimidating you cowards for years (The Haters)

Kobe has a grocery list of career achievements compared to LBJ

im sure MJ remembers "LBJ the quitter" and "no heart Lebron" of a few years ago also..

'MAYBE' LBJ can surpass Kobe's greatness..maybe not.. thats a discussion we can have in 10 years or so

*i also fail to see all the copy and paste stat wizards ever mention Kobe's first 3 years in the league were on the bench.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-16-2013, 05:14 PM
I watched plenty of Jordan...No one was saying that people were crazy when they were calling Jordan the best ever in 93 even though he hadn't accomplished as much as other greats.......Save that argument....Talent is talent and to say that Jordan is "leaps and bounds" better than Lebron is the ultimate case of falling victim to nostalgia...Lebron does certain things better than Jordan ever did..It's understandable why someone would say Jordan is better (and at this point in their careers I'd choose Jordan slightly), but I hate when people treat Jordan like some untouchable demigod. Lebron and Kobe are on his level and can be compared, anyone who disagrees is either

a.) a MJ ___hugger
b.) old and bitter
c.) a young person who never watched Jordan and is trying to impress the old and bitter crowd


Besides I don't even think Jordan is the best ever and have never understood why he is the gold standard....

To me it sounds like you're the old bitter fan of some team Jordan owned every year. Jordan not the Goat? :facepalm:

bucketss
02-16-2013, 05:22 PM
You guys have the nerve to say Kobe fans are bad.


@blazersedge: Gary Payton was Team Kobe Bryant > LeBron James: "I still think Kobe is a great basketball player and the best basketball player right now."

Lebron who?

^^ yup you guys are pretty bad.

godolphins
02-16-2013, 05:27 PM
@blazersedge: Gary Payton was Team Kobe Bryant > LeBron James: "I still think Kobe is a great basketball player and the best basketball player right now."

Lebron who?
Do you really believe that crap? If so, you're a very sad man or woman.

And if he's "the best basketball player right now" how come his team is struggling to get the 8th seed in the west?

justinnum1
02-16-2013, 05:28 PM
Do you really believe that crap? If so, you're a very sad man or woman.

And if he's "the best basketball player right now" how come his team is struggling to get the 8th seed in the west?
Kobe homers would never place any blame on kobe.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-16-2013, 05:32 PM
You are so wrong it is insane. The league is as efficient as ever and pace has decrease significantly. Not to mention there are wayyyy less 20ppg scorers now than there were years ago.

Also, your sig is dumb. Everything that person said that you quoted is accurate a true. You trying to put him on blast is hilarious because it just makes you look stupid for supporting an inefficient player who has had more help than anyone else in history.

The pace may have slowed, but the rules are laughable today. Look through out history. Rules have made it easier and earier to be a scorer. In 20-30 years the nba will basically be a touch free sport, Allowing superstars to excel in every statistical category.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-16-2013, 05:34 PM
Stupid format..

godolphins
02-16-2013, 05:35 PM
Kobe homers would never place any blame on kobe.

That reminds me of that thread he made listing all the reasons(excuses) why the Lakers won't make the playoffs. That was pretty darn sad.

This dude or chick probably has a Kobe tattoo across his chest.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-16-2013, 05:36 PM
Right now Lebron>kobe and its not a debate at all. For their careers, no one knows right now. Lebron is just entering his prime.

Kobe homers that want to say Kobe>lebron because 5>1 well no ****. Lebron just won his first. But make no mistake, kobe is not close to the basketball player lebron is right now. Swap kobe and lebron and the lakers are a top 4 seed, maybe even top 2.

Top 2? Lol

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-16-2013, 05:36 PM
Kobe is borderline top 5 already he'll be top 3-5 with 1 more ring when it's all said and done

+1

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-16-2013, 05:38 PM
Do you really believe that crap? If so, you're a very sad man or woman.

And if he's "the best basketball player right now" how come his team is struggling to get the 8th seed in the west?

I don't think Kobe> lebron right now but all time hell yeah

justinnum1
02-16-2013, 05:39 PM
Kobe is borderline top 5 already he'll be top 3-5 with 1 more ring when it's all said and done

Lakers aren't going to win another ring anytime soon, and kobe just said he has 2 more years left. The ring is lebrons to lose for the next half decade. I think lebron and kd both finish ahead of kobe on the all time list. Kobe will be somewhere between 9-15

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-16-2013, 05:39 PM
^^ yup you guys are pretty bad.

What does that make you bron fans then?

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-16-2013, 05:40 PM
Lakers aren't going to win another ring anytime soon, and kobe just said he has 2 more years left. The ring is lebrons to lose for the next half decade. I think lebron and kd both finish ahead of kobe on the all time list. Kobe will be somewhere between 9-15

:facepalm:

justinnum1
02-16-2013, 05:43 PM
:facepalm:

http://calibermag.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/You-cant-handle-the-truth6.jpg

godolphins
02-16-2013, 05:44 PM
I don't think Kobe> lebron right now but all time hell yeah

This is exactly right.

MaloDaw9
02-16-2013, 05:45 PM
Right now Lebron>kobe and its not a debate at all. For their careers, no one knows right now. Lebron is just entering his prime.

Kobe homers that want to say Kobe>lebron because 5>1 well no ****. Lebron just won his first. But make no mistake, kobe is not close to the basketball player lebron is right now. Swap kobe and lebron and the lakers are a top 4 seed, maybe even top 2.

i agree with a lot of this post.. yes, LBJ over Kobe today in terms of level of play. as for careers if they both stopped playing today Kobe>LBJ and it's not even a debate. In 10 years..who knows.

bucketss
02-16-2013, 05:48 PM
+1

lol, you just finished saying this era is easy to score so why would your boy kobe be borderline top 5

Guppyfighter
02-16-2013, 05:48 PM
It's pretty obvious outside of a car crash Lebron James will end up as the second or first best player of all time. I am not sure why Laker fans are so defensive about this.

And no, we are not all Bron fans, we just aren't ********.