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View Full Version : Could Rose have been the second best player if he wasn't injured?



OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 06:41 PM
I remember two years ago, Rose was mentioned as the second best player in the NBA. Do you think he could've been 1a, 1b, or 1c on this year's MVP race?

Chill_Will_24
02-14-2013, 06:42 PM
I do not remember anyone calling him the best player and i always felt he was terribly overrated as a player. Hope he comes back strong and keeps up his high level of play

ManRam
02-14-2013, 06:43 PM
No. He hasn't shown he's got the game to be on LeBron or KD's level. Can he get there? IDK, we'll see. But it's not a safe assumption at all.

And he wasn't ever the second best player in the NBA. An elite player? Absolutely. But he never made it that high.

SteBO
02-14-2013, 06:43 PM
No I think Kevin Durant would still take the cake. But he was definitely an arguable top 5 player before the injury bug hit him hard.

Chill_Will_24
02-14-2013, 06:45 PM
I think Dwight Howard would be a better comparison. Had he not been plagued by injuries could he have been the 2nd best player today? I think so.

While he was in ORL i had him at number 2

ManRam
02-14-2013, 06:47 PM
I think Dwight Howard would be a better comparison. Had he not been plagued by injuries could he have been the 2nd best player today? I think so.

While he was in ORL i had him at number 2

I think KD right now is slightly more valuable than Dwight was...but I can't prove it nor will I argue otherwise. But yes, when Dwight was his healthy self in Orlando he was clearly the second best player in the NBA IMO. No one had the same impact on a team besides LeBron. CP3 pushed him for that title for a while too.

ChicagoSports12
02-14-2013, 06:48 PM
It might have been fair to say that he was a top 5 player after his MVP season or that he was the best pg but I'm not sure anyone thought he was better than Durant

Baller1
02-14-2013, 06:48 PM
Rose doesnt even approach Lebron or KD's level.

unwantedplayer
02-14-2013, 06:52 PM
The difference between Rose and KD & LeBron is that I feel like that Lebron and KD could take a ****** team and make them borderline contenders whereas Rose would need at least a decent team to start with to make them contenders.

Lebron and KD are just that special I guess.

Federal Reserve
02-14-2013, 06:53 PM
The Bulls seem to be playing better as a team without Rose.

Chill_Will_24
02-14-2013, 06:56 PM
The difference between Rose and KD & LeBron is that I feel like that Lebron and KD could take a ****** team and make them borderline contenders whereas Rose would need at least a decent team to start with to make them contenders.

Lebron and KD are just that special I guess.

The Bulls are pretty much the only team in the east that stands a chance against the Heat and they have played without Rose all year. The Bulls are good because of their coaching. Rose was good for them but the Bulls have shown they can win and be a top team without him.

ManRam
02-14-2013, 06:58 PM
The Bulls seem to be playing better as a team without Rose.

Nice joke.

Or...

A for troll effort.

Chill_Will_24
02-14-2013, 06:59 PM
The Bulls seem to be playing better as a team without Rose.

Eh they need his offense badly. At times the Bulls can get into offensive droughts. That is what Rose brought to the team. He could get them points.

If they had a JR Smith there or someone like that it would fix that problem. At least till Rose comes back. The return of Ben Gordon would not be such a bad move for them right now.

The Bulls defense will ALWAYS be there. They have Thibs, plus great defensive players. When they lose games it's usually because they cannot score. They need Rose for that

Sactown
02-14-2013, 07:02 PM
For me, unfortunately, it's hard for PG's to really climb the ranks.
PG's can't anchor a defense like Centers, PF's, or SF's.
Centers and PF's have the capability to anchor a defense from the inside.
And dominate SF's can be a dominate wing defender, and PG's just can't cover the bigger 2's and 3's of the game.

Pg's have to really dominate on offense and control the pace to get real consideration, and it's even harder than ever to reach the #1 rank when Lebron James is distributing like a PG, scoring like a SG, rebounds like a big, and is one of the leagues premiere defenders.

ManRam
02-14-2013, 07:05 PM
The Bulls seem to be playing better as a team without Rose.

Someday I'll start ignoring stupid comments...


Bulls in 2010-2011: 108.3 ORTG, 100.3 RTG and a 75.6% win percentage
Bulls in 2011-2012: 107.4 ORTG, 98.3 DRTG and a 75.8% win percentage
Bulls in 2012-2013: 103.5 ORTG, 101.8 DRTG and a 57.7% win percentage


You can hush now, thanks!

TheWhiteMamba
02-14-2013, 07:08 PM
Before injury i believe it was plausible for Rose to be considered a top 5 player.

LeperMessiah
02-14-2013, 08:26 PM
It's a possibility

Blitzbolt
02-14-2013, 08:42 PM
NO
Why?
Mario Chalmers OWN him in College and in the NBA.

Mario Chalmers>Rose.

Avenged
02-14-2013, 08:49 PM
No

More-Than-Most
02-14-2013, 08:57 PM
Not top to be brutally honest

James







Durant


CP3





Everyone else

TheNumber37
02-14-2013, 09:00 PM
rose is not even better than Paul.

Bruno
02-14-2013, 09:02 PM
in 2013 its LeBron, and Durant, then everybody else.

Rose isn't on their level in terms of statistical impact, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have won MVP- he easily could be leading the race this year if he were healthy and Chicago had a better record than Miami.

gotoHcarolina52
02-14-2013, 09:21 PM
Rose is a solid top-10 player, but LeBron, KD, Melo, Tony Parker, CP3, Bryant, Westbrook, and Wade are all better right now. He's about on par with Stephen Curry.

AntiG
02-15-2013, 12:17 AM
lol no.

b@llhog24
02-15-2013, 12:21 AM
:laugh:

ThaDubs
02-15-2013, 12:30 AM
Chris Paul alone is miles above Derrick Rose.

b@llhog24
02-15-2013, 12:37 AM
Rose isn't top 3 though, but he's dope as hell mayne.

Alayla
02-15-2013, 12:38 AM
No he would need the best season of his career to even be 2nd best at his own position he is highly overrated

Alayla
02-15-2013, 12:39 AM
Rose is a solid top-10 player, but LeBron, KD, Melo, Tony Parker, CP3, Bryant, Westbrook, and Wade are all better right now. He's about on par with Stephen Curry.

This

Vinny642
02-15-2013, 12:40 AM
It goes..

Lebron




KD




Rest of NBA

Cubby
02-15-2013, 01:07 AM
Rose is a solid top-10 player, but LeBron, KD, Melo, Tony Parker, CP3, Bryant, Westbrook, and Wade are all better right now. He's about on par with Stephen Curry.

What a joke. :laugh2:

MGB
02-15-2013, 04:54 AM
Rose is a solid top-10 player, but LeBron, KD, Melo, Tony Parker, CP3, Bryant, Westbrook, and Wade are all better right now. He's about on par with Stephen Curry.

3/10

rockbottom2010
02-15-2013, 05:29 AM
rose needs to go past chris paul in order to be in that conversation

boateng
02-15-2013, 09:18 AM
rose needs to go past chris paul in order to be in that conversation

He is better than CP3

I think Rose's game is made for championships

CP3 has never been past the 2nd round. We shall see how far he takes the stacked Clippers this year.

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 01:35 PM
Rose was better than CP3 like two years ago imo.

Cubby
02-15-2013, 01:41 PM
Rose was better than CP3 like two years ago imo.

I wouldn't say that. I still think CP3 is better, but to say Rose is in the same category as Steph ****ing Curry is just utter blasphemy.

And having Melo, Parker, and Westbrook (especially Westbrook) is also stupid. It still baffles me that people said last postseason he was better than Rose. All you have to do is watch without bias (that's hard for a lot of you) and you can clearly see that Rose is a much better/more complete player.

Cubby
02-15-2013, 01:42 PM
double post

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 01:47 PM
I wouldn't say that. I still think CP3 is better, but to say Rose is in the same category as Steph ****ing Curry is just utter blasphemy.

And having Melo, Parker, and Westbrook (especially Westbrook) is also stupid. It still baffles me that people said last postseason he was better than Rose. All you have to do is watch without bias (that's hard for a lot of you) and you can clearly see that Rose is a much better/more complete player.

2010-2011, I think Rose was better though.

JiffyMix88
02-15-2013, 01:48 PM
Chris Paul alone is miles above Derrick Rose.

Have you seen what happens when they play each other though?

Cubby
02-15-2013, 01:56 PM
2010-2011, I think Rose was better though.

In his MVP season, yeah probably. But overall Chris Paul is better.

Their head to head matchups are a different story, however.

Cubby
02-15-2013, 01:57 PM
Have you seen what happens when they play each other though?

Yeah he isn't "miles above" Derrick. But he's still better.

boateng
02-15-2013, 02:09 PM
Yeah he isn't "miles above" Derrick. But he's still better.

In what what is CP3 much better though?

He hasnt really done anything post season wise and whilst he has been on bad teams, rose hasnt really played with an all star either until Deng and Noah the last two seasons.

JiffyMix88
02-15-2013, 04:08 PM
Yeah he isn't "miles above" Derrick. But he's still better.

No, when they play each other Derrick normally dominates him

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 04:11 PM
The difference between Rose and KD & LeBron is that I feel like that Lebron and KD could take a ****** team and make them borderline contenders whereas Rose would need at least a decent team to start with to make them contenders.

Lebron and KD are just that special I guess.

pretty much. Rose is not of their caliber. Most likely never will be. LeBron and KD are special players, as you said. Rose is a superstar, but he is going to be wedged in that 4-8 area for player rankings most his prime/peak I would think. Hell, I am not so sure he doesn't get passed by Irving while having CP3 still ahead of him in a year or two at the PG position.

jakey
02-15-2013, 06:54 PM
pretty much. Rose is not of their caliber. Most likely never will be. LeBron and KD are special players, as you said. Rose is a superstar, but he is going to be wedged in that 4-8 area for player rankings most his prime/peak I would think. Hell, I am not so sure he doesn't get passed by Irving while having CP3 still ahead of him in a year or two at the PG position.

Irving needs to get his team into the play offs before being considered an elite player. I know his team sucks and all, but still if he's that good, he should be getting the Cav's more wins.

I disgaree with you a little anyway. Considering Rose and the Bulls got to the ECF, to me suggests that he can take a team to a NBA finals. If healthy i think the Bulls have a chance against the Heat even though i expect the Heat to win.

He can be on Durant level imo. Dwayne Wade struggled before Lebron came even though he won a chip so i guess if the Bulls don't get another scorer, Rose is gonna find it tough!

yaswaggin
02-15-2013, 08:03 PM
Irving> rose when they were the same age

I see kyrie being the best pg next season

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 09:05 PM
Irving needs to get his team into the play offs before being considered an elite player. I know his team sucks and all, but still if he's that good, he should be getting the Cav's more wins.

I disgaree with you a little anyway. Considering Rose and the Bulls got to the ECF, to me suggests that he can take a team to a NBA finals. If healthy i think the Bulls have a chance against the Heat even though i expect the Heat to win.

He can be on Durant level imo. Dwayne Wade struggled before Lebron came even though he won a chip so i guess if the Bulls don't get another scorer, Rose is gonna find it tough!

I wonder if Irving would have loved to have the team that drafted him win 49 games, then underachieve, miss the playoffs, and skip over 12 teams to land him.

Irving will pass Rose imo. Its only a matter of time. Rose will live in that 4-8 range as a player in the league I think, if he bounces back and is the old Rose.

Hawkeye15
02-15-2013, 09:06 PM
Irving> rose when they were the same age

I see kyrie being the best pg next season

nah, Paul will still be better. Irving needs to learn how to play with good players first. Not his fault per say, but he just won't be on Paul's level until he can play a game within the game.

kozelkid
02-15-2013, 09:36 PM
I wonder if Irving would have loved to have the team that drafted him win 49 games, then underachieve, miss the playoffs, and skip over 12 teams to land him.

Irving will pass Rose imo. Its only a matter of time. Rose will live in that 4-8 range as a player in the league I think, if he bounces back and is the old Rose.

While I like Irving because he is so fundamentally sound and could very well overtake Rose, you need to stop repeating like a parrot, erroneous statements.

(A) Bulls OVERachieved in 06-07. They were a .500 team the year before, and after 06-07, while they underachieved somewhat it was less than they overachieved the year before. Scott Skiles is the textbook definition of a coach that gets his team to overachieve for a few years before his act wears out. See: Chicago and now Milwaukee. They had more talent than a typical team that gets the #1 pick, but stop acting like they were a playoff team without Rose. They wouldn't and it showed as they barely made the playoffs the first two years that Rose played for them.

(B) They didn't jump 12 spots. they had the ninth worst record.

Sorry if I came off as a dick, but there's no greater pet peeve for me than people that don't make the effort to do the research, especially on an internet forum given the plethora of references you have at the tip of your fingers.

OceanSpray
02-16-2013, 03:17 AM
While I like Irving because he is so fundamentally sound and could very well overtake Rose, you need to stop repeating like a parrot, erroneous statements.

(A) Bulls OVERachieved in 06-07. They were a .500 team the year before, and after 06-07, while they underachieved somewhat it was less than they overachieved the year before. Scott Skiles is the textbook definition of a coach that gets his team to overachieve for a few years before his act wears out. See: Chicago and now Milwaukee. They had more talent than a typical team that gets the #1 pick, but stop acting like they were a playoff team without Rose. They wouldn't and it showed as they barely made the playoffs the first two years that Rose played for them.

(B) They didn't jump 12 spots. they had the ninth worst record.

Sorry if I came off as a dick, but there's no greater pet peeve for me than people that don't make the effort to do the research, especially on an internet forum given the plethora of references you have at the tip of your fingers.

Noah, Boozer, Deng, and Taj Gibson aren't scrubs.. Legitimate starters on any team. Rose had it easy but he played terrible against Miami two years ago.

Bullsfan22
02-16-2013, 06:00 AM
While I like Irving because he is so fundamentally sound and could very well overtake Rose, you need to stop repeating like a parrot, erroneous statements.

(A) Bulls OVERachieved in 06-07. They were a .500 team the year before, and after 06-07, while they underachieved somewhat it was less than they overachieved the year before. Scott Skiles is the textbook definition of a coach that gets his team to overachieve for a few years before his act wears out. See: Chicago and now Milwaukee. They had more talent than a typical team that gets the #1 pick, but stop acting like they were a playoff team without Rose. They wouldn't and it showed as they barely made the playoffs the first two years that Rose played for them.

(B) They didn't jump 12 spots. they had the ninth worst record.

Sorry if I came off as a dick, but there's no greater pet peeve for me than people that don't make the effort to do the research, especially on an internet forum given the plethora of references you have at the tip of your fingers.

This. In the other thread about Rose he spewed out the same crap basically saying the 06-07 team was the norm when it really wasn't. Any Bulls fan would tell you everything clicked that year. Ben Gordon,Nocioni and Deng had outstanding seasons. By the next year Skiles drained out all the potential he could in the players and his coaching style grew old.

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-16-2013, 12:34 PM
before injury he was arguably a top 3 pg (i had him behind cp3 and dwill) and i viewed rose as a westy-type player.
however if he were healthy today, id say rose would be with westy(2a to 2b) for 2nd best pg in the league behind cp3 of course, and overall id say he would be top 5 to top 6.

nowhere near top 3, which is reserved for LeBron, Durant, and CP3 imo.

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-16-2013, 12:37 PM
Rose was better than CP3 like two years ago imo.

no.. no he wasnt. the same argument u make for lebron being better than durant (defense), can be used here. in 2010 cp3 was THE best on ball pg defender in the league. rose had a good defensive team, individually he wasnt an elite defender, he was an explosive offensive player though!

in 2013, according to a lot of analysts, conley is the best pg defender, followed by cp3. so unless rose somehow becomes an elite defender, he will always be behind cp3 imo.

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-16-2013, 12:41 PM
I wonder if Irving would have loved to have the team that drafted him win 49 games, then underachieve, miss the playoffs, and skip over 12 teams to land him.

Irving will pass Rose imo. Its only a matter of time. Rose will live in that 4-8 range as a player in the league I think, if he bounces back and is the old Rose.

well thats assuming if rose doesnt improve his game.. i think rose has solid potential to be the best pg in the league. if he becomes a solid to decent shooter along with possessing elite defense (mixed with his amazing floaters and explosiveness), id say that would be enough to place rose over cp3..

Greedy22
02-16-2013, 12:48 PM
I'd say top 5-8, never thought he was top 2