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LoveMeOrHateMe
02-13-2013, 05:47 PM
So as a shot artist, what other shots do you admire around the league? Iím not talking about something as general as Ray Allenís jumper. Iím talking specific shots.

I'm such a dork, still. This is my 15th year and I still sit, when my wife's asleep, I sit there and watch League Pass. I do it from sometimes 9 p.m. till 12:30 a.m., until the West Coast games are over. I was always a huge fan of Kobe. Obviously, he's now on the declining end, like most of us older guys, but the stuff he does Ö They are never out of a game. When I get home, at like 11 p.m., I know the fourth quarter will just be starting in L.A., and I'll sit down and watch him basically will his team to win with some incredible shots.

So you donít buy the idea that Kobe and other stars are playing hero ball there at the end of games? That they are taking really bad shots with two or three guys guarding them?

Yeah, sometimes it's a thin line. You need a mixture [of plays] to find the open guy, but some nights you just gotta take the team home.

Kobeís footwork in the post is obviously legendary.

Oh yeah. The athleticism, the balance in the air, the lefty shots. He made a 3 on us one year in the corner. The shot clock was winding down, and he had to spin around and just shoot it lefty. To me, he's the no. 1 player over the 15 years I've been in this league.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/50736/qa-dirk-nowitzki-on-the-mavs-struggles-his-favorite-shot-artist-and-refusing-to-watch-shark-tank

ManRam
02-13-2013, 05:49 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

Open man > Hero ball


Kobe's great. Dirk agrees. What are we trying to prove here?

ewing
02-13-2013, 05:51 PM
Steve Nash's running one legged jumpshot. I tried for years to steal that move from Mark Price and could never get it down

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-13-2013, 05:54 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

Open man > Hero ball


Kobe's great. Dirk agrees. What are we trying to prove here?


Your bringing up a Henry Abbott article? Lol he's a known Kobe hater. Does he even work for espn anymore?

1-800-STFU
02-13-2013, 05:56 PM
Rose > Kobe

5ass
02-13-2013, 06:01 PM
Your bringing up a Henry Abbott article? Lol he's a known Kobe hater. Does he even work for espn anymore?

ofcourse you wont bother to read it because "hes a known kobe hater". The guy presents an argument and backs it up with stats. why does his opinion on Kobe matter? Just read the article and stop living in ignorance.

Sactown
02-13-2013, 06:08 PM
No. 1 Over Tim Duncan?
"Duncan to me is obviously so solid, but to watch him play …" Dirk
Oh, you mean, just in terms of style.
"Yeah. Duncan is probably the best power forward ever to play this game."

beliges
02-13-2013, 06:13 PM
Well this should not be a shock and I think goes without saying. Its become very evident that this generation has belonged to Kobe as the greatest player and winner of his era. Now we've moved onto the Lebron/Durant era, while Kobe is still relative and one of the top 5 or 6 players in the game.

Hawkeye15
02-13-2013, 06:28 PM
Meh, I still take Duncan over Kobe for this generation, but its not like there isn't an argument over it.

mngopher35
02-13-2013, 06:32 PM
Well this should not be a shock and I think goes without saying. Its become very evident that this generation has belonged to Kobe as the greatest player and winner of his era. Now we've moved onto the Lebron/Durant era, while Kobe is still relative and one of the top 5 or 6 players in the game.

what do you mean by this? what era are you referring to? Tim Duncan was amazing as well if your talking about from when he entered the league till now (or a few years ago).

sep11ie
02-13-2013, 06:34 PM
Start having sex with your wife before someone else does.

Shortys4711
02-13-2013, 06:58 PM
Start having sex with your wife before someone else does.

LOL Thread.

Baller1
02-13-2013, 07:07 PM
Start having sex with your wife before someone else does.

:laugh2:

OceanSpray
02-13-2013, 07:20 PM
OP, why do you always open threads to boost Kobe's outlook towards us? If he was that good, you wouldn't have to convince any of us.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-13-2013, 07:26 PM
OP, why do you always open threads to boost Kobe's outlook towards us? If he was that good, you wouldn't have to convince any of us.

I'm not its just that I've had enough of these lebron threads, me always opening Kobe threads now that's false I haven't opened one in a while

OceanSpray
02-13-2013, 07:36 PM
I'm not its just that I've had enough of these lebron threads, me always opening Kobe threads now that's false I haven't opened one in a while

Maybe so but you did try and blame the LAL as an injured team instead of Kobe. I mean yesterday Kobe has like 4 points and they came out with a win. No need to raise your argument for Kobe. We all know he'll go down as one of the greatest ever.

zn23
02-13-2013, 07:43 PM
What is this supposed to prove? All Nowitzki said was that he likes watching Kobe play. I'm sure a lot of players like watching him play. But what does that have to do with 'Stat Geeks and PER lovers' ?

ManRam
02-13-2013, 08:16 PM
Your bringing up a Henry Abbott article? Lol he's a known Kobe hater. Does he even work for espn anymore?

If you read the article you'd clearly see that what he's saying isn't really opinion, rather cold hard facts.

b@llhog24
02-13-2013, 08:20 PM
I like to watch Steph, Kyrie, Melo and Dirk shoot. (Not sure what this thread is about, didn't bother to click an article that LMHM thinks is just).

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-13-2013, 08:30 PM
What is this supposed to prove? All Nowitzki said was that he likes watching Kobe play. I'm sure a lot of players like watching him play. But what does that have to do with 'Stat Geeks and PER lovers' ?

He did say Kobe was the greatest player of the last 15 years

OceanSpray
02-13-2013, 08:32 PM
He did say Kobe was the greatest player of the last 15 years

That's because Kobe has been the best player if you add up what he has done the past 15 years. If you're talking about the past 5 years, it's hands down LeBron and not even close. That's just me though.

ManRam
02-13-2013, 08:34 PM
He did say Kobe was the greatest player of the last 15 years

Would you like me to make a new thread whenever anyone says who they think is the best player ever or best player over any certain time frame?

No. I don't think you would.

So why is this thread something that exists?

mdm692
02-13-2013, 09:10 PM
OP why do you ignore the Henry Abbott article where he backs up his article with stats?

zn23
02-13-2013, 09:18 PM
He did say Kobe was the greatest player of the last 15 years

He's wrong. LeBron surpassed Kobe in 2008. It's almost asinine to put Kobe ahead of Duncan, or event Shaq. Kobe had good years, but he never had a year where he clearly separated himself from the rest.

Hawkeye15
02-13-2013, 09:32 PM
I'm not its just that I've had enough of these lebron threads, me always opening Kobe threads now that's false I haven't opened one in a while

wait, you are sick of LeBron threads, while ignoring the fact that there are Laker/Kobe threads littering the forum at all times?

ATX
02-13-2013, 09:38 PM
That's because Kobe has been the best player if you add up what he has done the past 15 years. If you're talking about the past 5 years, it's hands down LeBron and not even close. That's just me though.

I think anyone sans Kobe fans would agree with you here.


Would you like me to make a new thread whenever anyone says who they think is the best player ever or best player over any certain time frame?

No. I don't think you would.

So why is this thread something that exists?

Great question.


OP why do you ignore the Henry Abbott article where he backs up his article with stats?

I've noticed that stats are irrelevant to Kobemeefers.


He's wrong. LeBron surpassed Kobe in 2008. It's almost asinine to put Kobe ahead of Duncan, or event Shaq. Kobe had good years, but he never had a year where he clearly separated himself from the rest.

I agree Duncan over Kobe all time.
*Not that Kobe isn't top 10 All Time.

Hawkeye15
02-13-2013, 10:02 PM
OP why do you ignore the Henry Abbott article where he backs up his article with stats?

stats don't matter to Kobephiles dude, you didn't know that?

--23--
02-13-2013, 10:22 PM
Start having sex with your wife before someone else does.

:laugh:

jericho
02-13-2013, 10:26 PM
Well this should not be a shock and I think goes without saying. Its become very evident that this generation has belonged to Kobe as the greatest player and winner of his era. Now we've moved onto the Lebron/Durant era, while Kobe is still relative and one of the top 5 or 6 players in the game.

I dont know why you guys like to bring this up. 2 of them shaq helped him get them sorry shaq got them for him, 1 was stolen from the kings ill give you the last 2 even tho he needed a really stacked team to get them with odom gasol bynum and the rest of the gang he still got those 2 tho

godolphins
02-13-2013, 11:25 PM
OP, I think you're obsessed with Kobe. You're exactly like Stan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOMhN-hfMtY

flea
02-13-2013, 11:37 PM
For this era (2000s) it's definitely Duncan. The question is whether Kobe is second or as low as fourth (below Shaq and KG).

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-13-2013, 11:42 PM
For this era (2000s) it's definitely Duncan. The question is whether Kobe is second or as low as fourth (below Shaq and KG).

:facepalm:

ManRam
02-13-2013, 11:44 PM
:facepalm:

:facepalm:

Sly Guy
02-13-2013, 11:45 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

Open man > Hero ball


Kobe's great. Dirk agrees. What are we trying to prove here?

amen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2BlOTeoZVE

flea
02-13-2013, 11:45 PM
Hey I like Kobe and he's the best shooting guard of his era easily. But I'm not going to pretend Duncan is an inferior player just because Kobe was the most heavily marketed.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-13-2013, 11:47 PM
Your bringing up a Henry Abbott article? Lol he's a known Kobe hater. Does he even work for espn anymore?

Certainly balances out between his hate and your bjs.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 12:22 AM
Would you like me to make a new thread whenever anyone says who they think is the best player ever or best player over any certain time frame?

No. I don't think you would.

So why is this thread something that exists?

Go head and do that I'll be in every single one of them chances are very few people will say anyone other then Kobe
It's funny because if this was a lebron thread you would be praising the hell out of him

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 12:25 AM
For this era (2000s) it's definitely Duncan. The question is whether Kobe is second or as low as fourth (below Shaq and KG).


Duncan hasn't been anything near what he was for a good 4-5 years now lol this year he was having a good year though, Kobe is #1 on most sites you check! Slam,TNT named him the best,espn etc.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 12:26 AM
Certainly balances out between his hate and your bjs.

Aww you really hurt my feeling with this one, your about to make me cry have fun with your ban.

Chronz
02-14-2013, 01:25 AM
Doesn't Dirk mention hes not comparing Kobe to Duncan? Just in terms of watching a player perform, hes the best to watch?

Sadds The Gr8
02-14-2013, 01:45 AM
Start having sex with your wife before someone else does.

Brock Lesnar wins this thread.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-14-2013, 01:00 PM
:facepalm:

:facepalm: :facepalm:

1-800-STFU
02-14-2013, 01:30 PM
:facepalm:
:facepalm:

NFLNBA
02-14-2013, 01:50 PM
He's wrong. LeBron surpassed Kobe in 2008. It's almost asinine to put Kobe ahead of Duncan, or event Shaq. Kobe had good years, but he never had a year where he clearly separated himself from the rest.

Wow......really!? Who was the last person to average 36 PPG? What other perimeter player had anything even close to a 81 pt game? Hello 9..... straight 40 pt games, 4 straight 50 pt games........but nooooo thats nothing Lebrons 6 straight 30 pt games is the most amazing thing EVER LMAO GTFO

NFLNBA
02-14-2013, 01:55 PM
For this era (2000s) it's definitely Duncan. The question is whether Kobe is second or as low as fourth (below Shaq and KG).[/quote]


I dont understand this.....Kobe with 7 Finals appearances, 5 Rings, Kobe breaks every Laker record ever just about, passing magic johnson as greatest Laker ever and we are talking about the most storied NBA franchise with the greatest players to ever play this game, KObe's name is on top of duncans in every catogory. Kobe Ranks 5th all time in scoring yet he hasnt owed the last 15 years!? People really hate Kobe so much its krazy

naps
02-14-2013, 02:03 PM
OP always tries to force-feed us how great Kobe is. LOL. He can't stand the fact that Kobe isn't in the top player conversation. Guy reminds me of KB-Pau-D12 (permabanned).

1-800-STFU
02-14-2013, 02:09 PM
OP always tries to force-feed us how great Kobe is. LOL. He can't stand the fact that Kobe isn't in the top player conversation. Guy reminds me of KB-Pau-D12 (permabanned).

GET THE DUPE POLICE

Scooby-Doo is on the case

ManRam
02-14-2013, 02:10 PM
Wow......really!? Who was the last person to average 36 PPG? What other perimeter player had anything even close to a 81 pt game? Hello 9..... straight 40 pt games, 4 straight 50 pt games........but nooooo thats nothing Lebrons 6 straight 30 pt games is the most amazing thing EVER LMAO GTFO

His ability to shoot the ball over 30 times a game was remarkable. You are correct.

Deezy3
02-14-2013, 02:21 PM
Kobe Bryant probably knows where the entrance to Narnia is.

TheIlladelph16
02-14-2013, 02:37 PM
His ability to shoot the ball over 30 times a game was remarkable. You are correct.

:laugh:

I do enjoy when that stat (36 PPG) is used with zero context behind it other than "OMFG 36 PPG = GOAT"

ElChinoLatino
02-14-2013, 02:51 PM
Start having sex with your wife before someone else does.

:laugh:

zn23
02-14-2013, 03:07 PM
His ability to shoot the ball over 30 times a game was remarkable. You are correct.

LOL

He's also going to reach another milestone at the end of the year... and that's most missed shots in NBA history... Not just that, but fastest to most missed shots ever lol. If he plays two more years he'll have an almost unreachable record. Most missed shots will be as unreachable as the 100 point game.

5 rings!!!!

ztilzer31
02-14-2013, 03:21 PM
Aww you really hurt my feeling with this one, your about to make me cry have fun with your ban.

You forgot rapist in your tag. It must be hard to type with Kobes balls firmly placed in your mouth, but you know we all have our flaws.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-14-2013, 03:34 PM
Haters gun hate.

ElChinoLatino
02-14-2013, 03:40 PM
Haters gun hate.

Homers be blind

el hidalgo
02-14-2013, 03:40 PM
please, before anybody even THINKS about saying the name "lebron" in the same sentence as kobe, just stop. last time a hater did that i had a severe stroke and went to the hospital. fallacies to THAT degree just get my blood going. lebronze can talk once he got some more of them shiny golden rings on his finger. until the "king" gets more jewelry, he aint no "king". the closet thing lebrick will ever have to a crown is if he puts kobe's jockstrap on his head. then he will know what it feels like to be a true champion.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 03:42 PM
LOL

He's also going to reach another milestone at the end of the year... and that's most missed shots in NBA history... Not just that, but fastest to most missed shots ever lol. If he plays two more years he'll have an almost unreachable record. Most missed shots will be as unreachable as the 100 point game.

5 rings!!!!

Well you would think he's bound to hit that record at some point after he's been playing for 15 years (next year) and his main job has been to score, while playing SG. Didn't MJ own that record for some time?

flea
02-14-2013, 03:48 PM
I dont understand this.....Kobe with 7 Finals appearances, 5 Rings, Kobe breaks every Laker record ever just about, passing magic johnson as greatest Laker ever and we are talking about the most storied NBA franchise with the greatest players to ever play this game, KObe's name is on top of duncans in every catogory. Kobe Ranks 5th all time in scoring yet he hasnt owed the last 15 years!? People really hate Kobe so much its krazy
Who cares about what Shaq gave Kobe early in his career or pointless volume stats for a franchise when deciding who was the best of the 2000s? Duncan has more win shares both in the 2000s and more in his career (despite Kobe playing one more season than Duncan). Duncan is a much more valuable defender, even despite the fact that Kobe was a pretty good wing defender in his prime.

Not everything in basketball is about who takes the most shots. Like I said, I like Kobe. He's probably the 2nd best of that era in my mind (barely edging KG).

ztilzer31
02-14-2013, 04:00 PM
please, before anybody even THINKS about saying the name "lebron" in the same sentence as kobe, just stop. last time a hater did that i had a severe stroke and went to the hospital. fallacies to THAT degree just get my blood going. lebronze can talk once he got some more of them shiny golden rings on his finger. until the "king" gets more jewelry, he aint no "king". the closet thing lebrick will ever have to a crown is if he puts kobe's jockstrap on his head. then he will know what it feels like to be a true champion.

If Lebron retired today and Kobe played another 5 years of Ok basketball I'd still have Lebron on top. He's a better defender, rebounder, leader, and at everything. I use to say Kobe was a better scorer, but that's not true. Kobe scores more points less efficiently, and after this year Lebron will probably have 2 rings. Same amount as Kobe got as the head man on his team (sorry if Lebron got to play with prime shaq for his first few years he'd have 5-8 rings already.

ManRam
02-14-2013, 04:00 PM
Kobe's 4 game 50+ point streak: 56.3 points (19-35 shooting, 8.3 threes attempted, 14/15 FTs), 54%/52%/93%, 2,8 assists, 6.3 rebounds

LeBron's 6 game 30+ point streak: 30.8 points (11-15.3 shooting, 3 threes attempted, 7.2/9.2 FTs), 71.7%/56%/78%, 6.5 assists, 6.7 rebounds


They're both tremendous in their own regards, and they won every game they played in.


They both were tremendous stretches, unlike anything we've seen from their peers. What's wrong with leaving it at that?

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-14-2013, 04:00 PM
Homers be blind

of?

ztilzer31
02-14-2013, 04:01 PM
P.S. Any oppurtunity to make a Lake fan have a stroke, and not talk on these forums anymore is a win win according to me. Dumbest fans in all of sports. I feel bad for the 10% of Lakers fans that actually know a thing about basketball and look at their players realistically. For the other 90% go back to hiding. This forum is so much better when the Lakers/Knicks fans have nothing to talk about.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-14-2013, 04:01 PM
please, before anybody even THINKS about saying the name "lebron" in the same sentence as kobe, just stop. last time a hater did that i had a severe stroke and went to the hospital. fallacies to THAT degree just get my blood going. lebronze can talk once he got some more of them shiny golden rings on his finger. until the "king" gets more jewelry, he aint no "king". the closet thing lebrick will ever have to a crown is if he puts kobe's jockstrap on his head. then he will know what it feels like to be a true champion.

+1

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 04:06 PM
For this era (2000s) it's definitely Duncan. The question is whether Kobe is second or as low as fourth (below Shaq and KG).


I dont understand this.....Kobe with 7 Finals appearances, 5 Rings, Kobe breaks every Laker record ever just about, passing magic johnson as greatest Laker ever and we are talking about the most storied NBA franchise with the greatest players to ever play this game, KObe's name is on top of duncans in every catogory. Kobe Ranks 5th all time in scoring yet he hasnt owed the last 15 years!? People really hate Kobe so much its krazy[/QUOTE]


Preach bro! (:

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 04:08 PM
You forgot rapist in your tag. It must be hard to type with Kobes balls firmly placed in your mouth, but you know we all have our flaws.

Oh burn!!! Nice one! More infractions coming up nice...

ManRam
02-14-2013, 04:10 PM
RINGZ



a team accomplishment, but all that matters when comparing individuals, I guess

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-14-2013, 04:10 PM
If Lebron retired today and Kobe played another 5 years of Ok basketball I'd still have Lebron on top. He's a better defender, rebounder, leader, and at everything. I use to say Kobe was a better scorer, but that's not true. Kobe scores more points less efficiently, and after this year Lebron will probably have 2 rings. Same amount as Kobe got as the head man on his team (sorry if Lebron got to play with prime shaq for his first few years he'd have 5-8 rings already.

Comedy gold!

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 04:12 PM
To be fair, LeBron never had a chance to win a ring his first 7 years. No one could've won with his team. Not Jordan, not Hakeem, and certainly not Kobe.

ManRam
02-14-2013, 04:13 PM
LeBron's not ahead of Kobe right now because of longevity. If LeBron plays like this for 4-5 more years then we can have that discussion. In his prime, Bron has been better individually I don't think there's any statistical argument suggesting otherwise, but for all-time rankings that isn't enough. He's gotta get the longevity stuff out of the way first.

The rings will come now that he's on a team comparable to Kobe's championship teams. Kobe never won with as little as Bron had in Cleveland, so why do we hold LeBron to those high standards and fault him for not doing something Kobe also never did? I've never once gotten an answer from a Kobe fan explaining that.

flea
02-14-2013, 04:14 PM
To be fair, LeBron never had a chance to win a ring his first 7 years. No one could've won with his team. Not Jordan, not Hakeem, and certainly not Kobe.

Hakeem might have done it, that's about it though.

EDIT: They are astonishingly (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/1994.html) similar. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2007.html)

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 04:14 PM
RINGZ



a team accomplishment, but all that matters when comparing individuals, I guess

Stats the most flawed thing ever, teammates help with stats as well, it's a team game if you don't make the baskets you don't get the assist! But it's ok let's keep sucking lebrons dick for shooting 70% when 80 percent of his baskets come on fast break layups and dunks

el hidalgo
02-14-2013, 04:18 PM
trolls be trollin

ElChinoLatino
02-14-2013, 04:19 PM
of?

facts.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 04:20 PM
Kobe's 4 game 50+ point streak: 56.3 points (19-35 shooting, 8.3 threes attempted, 14/15 FTs), 54%/52%/93%, 2,8 assists, 6.3 rebounds

LeBron's 6 game 30+ point streak: 30.8 points (11-15.3 shooting, 3 threes attempted, 7.2/9.2 FTs), 71.7%/56%/78%, 6.5 assists, 6.7 rebounds


They're both tremendous in their own regards, and they won every game they played in.


They both were tremendous stretches, unlike anything we've seen from their peers. What's wrong with leaving it at that?

I agree with this. Both players were/are on a hot streak that's just so rare. Lebrons 70%+ FG is also that high because most his shots come from 0-8 feet from the basket, but then again he also is one of the biggest/strongest guys in the NBA so its understandable.

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 04:22 PM
I agree with this. Both players were/are on a hot streak that's just so rare. Lebrons 70%+ FG is also that high because most his shots come from 0-8 feet from the basket, but then again he also is one of the biggest/strongest guys in the NBA so its understandable.

I don't like how people criticize LeBron for taking most of his shots in the paint.

1) If anyone can do it, why don't they?

Answer: Because they can't.

2) If LeBron is shooting most of his shots from the 0-8 ft part of the court, does Shaq suck because 99% of his shots are 0-8 ft froom the court?

I don't think it's fair. You guys make it seem as if it's easy to do it.

ManRam
02-14-2013, 04:25 PM
Stats the most flawed thing ever, teammates help with stats as well, it's a team game if you don't make the baskets you don't get the assist! But it's ok let's keep sucking lebrons dick for shooting 70% when 80 percent of his baskets come on fast break layups and dunks

What's more flawed that stats are the opinions of blind homers/haters.

TEAMMATES MATTER! Did you just say that! Aha! Now, do teammates matter for RINGZ!?


Who cares how his baskets come? I don't care if you score by taking hard shots or by getting easy shots. The results are what matters. The fact that LeBron CAN get so many easy shots is what makes him so great.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 04:34 PM
It's not that impressive when your 6'8 275 and can just overpower over anybody now if he wasn't so big and strong it would be so much more impressive, frankly lebrons game has never impressed me he's just so dominant though that he's the best in the NBA right now I can't wait until he's no longer in his prime to see how well he plays I wanna see what not being able to jump or run as fast does to his overall game, he better start getting that post game together, he should ask Kobe for some lessons after all he did take him to school whenever he was guarding the mamba in the post last sunday

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 04:42 PM
It's not that impressive when your 6'8 275 and can just overpower over anybody now if he wasn't so big and strong it would be so much more impressive, frankly lebrons game has never impressed me he's just so dominant though that he's the best in the NBA right now I can't wait until he's no longer in his prime to see how well he plays I wanna see what not being able to jump or run as fast does to his overall game, he better start getting that post game together, he should ask Kobe for some lessons after all he did take him to school whenever he was guarding the mamba in the post last sunday

Kobe didn't take anyone to school... Wade and James both outplayed him. LeBron is 13-6 against Kobe in head to head matchups..

I also like how you discredit everything about LeBron and say he's only "this good because of his athleticism and physique."

How does that even make sense? So the fact that he's born gifted makes him less of a player than anyone else? So in your case, a child prodigy should be discredited of everything they do.

"If he wasn't so big and strong."

Basically you mean you're angry at the fact that Kobe isn't as big and strong as LeBron.

IKnowHoops
02-14-2013, 04:47 PM
For this era (2000s) it's definitely Duncan. The question is whether Kobe is second or as low as fourth (below Shaq and KG).

I think he is definately behind Duncan/Shaq/KG. I like PER a lot though and Since Jordan and all the other best players have lead it, I like the guys who lead it or are close to it. Kobe never has been a leader of PER and my eye test tells me he talented but just a gun, much like Allen Iverson, who I love by the way, but Ivo isnt better than those guys either. Kobe and Iverson are in the 4-6 spots of this era IMO

mjm07
02-14-2013, 04:48 PM
It's not that impressive when your 6'8 275 and can just overpower over anybody now if he wasn't so big and strong it would be so much more impressive, frankly lebrons game has never impressed me he's just so dominant though that he's the best in the NBA right now I can't wait until he's no longer in his prime to see how well he plays I wanna see what not being able to jump or run as fast does to his overall game, he better start getting that post game together, he should ask Kobe for some lessons after all he did take him to school whenever he was guarding the mamba in the post last sunday

^^^ Extremely blind homer & LBJ hater^^^^ :facepalm::facepalm:

ManRam
02-14-2013, 04:50 PM
It's not that impressive when your 6'8 275 and can just overpower over anybody now if he wasn't so big and strong it would be so much more impressive, frankly lebrons game has never impressed me he's just so dominant though that he's the best in the NBA right now I can't wait until he's no longer in his prime to see how well he plays I wanna see what not being able to jump or run as fast does to his overall game, he better start getting that post game together, he should ask Kobe for some lessons after all he did take him to school whenever he was guarding the mamba in the post last sunday

OK. If you say so!


Again, who cares HOW or WHY you're better or dominant. All that matters is that you are. I don't care if you're the most skilled, least skilled, most athletic, least athletic or whatever...all that matters are results and performance.

Not sure why you aren't impressed with the fact that his career 3PT% is exactly the same as Kobe's. How do you explain that if all LeBron does is "overpower" people and get by because of physical skills? Or the fact that he's shooting well higher from three this year than Kobe ever has. Guess you're not impressed with his amazing passing SKILLS. Or his amazing defensive SKILLS. Or his newly developed post SKILLS.


But yeah, all he is is some great athlete with no skills.


Not impressed either! He's a scrub!




I don't know why I bother with you.

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 04:50 PM
It's hard to argue that Kobe isn't the greatest of this era. His achievements and accolades have been extremely impressive. He is the best of this era imo. But, if you're asking who the best of this decade is, it's clearly LeBron James. No one comes close! Ever since James came into the NBA, he's improved periodically, and the fact that he's been amazing his entire career.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 04:54 PM
I don't like how people criticize LeBron for taking most of his shots in the paint.

1) If anyone can do it, why don't they?

Answer: Because they can't.

2) If LeBron is shooting most of his shots from the 0-8 ft part of the court, does Shaq suck because 99% of his shots are 0-8 ft froom the court?

I don't think it's fair. You guys make it seem as if it's easy to do it.

Im not criticizing him... It's not that they can't, that's just the type of game they have developed/evolved into based on their size/physique. Shaq was a beast, and developed an awesome post game. When you combine that with his power, it's what made him so dominant. Of course some players can't. I'm sure if you have Rajon Rondo trying to develop a game where his shots are from down low it would be a disaster. Based on his size.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 04:58 PM
Kobe didn't take anyone to school... Wade and James both outplayed him. LeBron is 13-6 against Kobe in head to head matchups..

I also like how you discredit everything about LeBron and say he's only "this good because of his athleticism and physique."

How does that even make sense? So the fact that he's born gifted makes him less of a player than anyone else? So in your case, a child prodigy should be discredited of everything they do.

"If he wasn't so big and strong."

Basically you mean you're angry at the fact that Kobe isn't as big and strong as LeBron.

Look at the game Kobe had the best overall stats of the 3 Sure the heat won the game and I meant he schooled lebron in the post there is no shame in that Kobe makes everyone look silly down low haha he went one way and lebron the other... And no lebron is talented I never said he wasn't but if he wasn't so big and strong there is no way he would be this well rounded as a player you really think if he was Kobe's size he'd take most of his shots in the paint? No he wouldn't because it wouldn't be as easy getting in the paint

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 04:59 PM
Im not criticizing him... It's not that they can't, that's just the type of game they have developed/evolved into based on their size/physique. Shaq was a beast, and developed an awesome post game. When you combine that with his power, it's what made him so dominant. Of course some players can't. I'm sure if you have Rajon Rondo trying to develop a game where his shots are from down low it would be a disaster. Based on his size.

No, but it seems that you're discrediting him by saying he only scores on the paint. It's not true and his 3 point FG % proves that. He can do what and when he wants.. That's the scary part.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 04:59 PM
It's hard to argue that Kobe isn't the greatest of this era. His achievements and accolades have been extremely impressive. He is the best of this era imo. But, if you're asking who the best of this decade is, it's clearly LeBron James. No one comes close! Ever since James came into the NBA, he's improved periodically, and the fact that he's been amazing his entire career.

Totally agree, this is his time for him to dominate since he's in his prime years. It will be interesting to see what Kevin Durant does towards the backend of this decade, when he gets into his prime.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 05:00 PM
I think he is definately behind Duncan/Shaq/KG. I like PER a lot though and Since Jordan and all the other best players have lead it, I like the guys who lead it or are close to it. Kobe never has been a leader of PER and my eye test tells me he talented but just a gun, much like Allen Iverson, who I love by the way, but Ivo isnt better than those guys either. Kobe and Iverson are in the 4-6 spots of this era IMO

Haha you just made yourself look silly and a blind Kobe hater. kG and Shaq above Kobe lol even Duncan has a small argument but Kobe takes the cake

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 05:01 PM
^^^ Extremely blind homer & LBJ hater^^^^ :facepalm::facepalm:

So calling lebron the best in the NBA is being a hater oh ok... It's one thing to be a hater and another one is sucking his dick and I'm neither I could care less about lebron

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 05:02 PM
It's hard to argue that Kobe isn't the greatest of this era. His achievements and accolades have been extremely impressive. He is the best of this era imo. But, if you're asking who the best of this decade is, it's clearly LeBron James. No one comes close! Ever since James came into the NBA, he's improved periodically, and the fact that he's been amazing his entire career.


Era technically is a decade lol but if you mean 2010 and now then yes I agree

mngopher35
02-14-2013, 05:04 PM
OK. If you say so!


Again, who cares HOW or WHY you're better or dominant. All that matters is that you are. I don't care if you're the most skilled, least skilled, most athletic, least athletic or whatever...all that matters are results and performance.

Not sure why you aren't impressed with the fact that his career 3PT% is exactly the same as Kobe's. How do you explain that if all LeBron does is "overpower" people and get by because of physical skills? Or the fact that he's shooting well higher from three this year than Kobe ever has. Guess you're not impressed with his amazing passing SKILLS. Or his amazing defensive SKILLS. Or his newly developed post SKILLS.


But yeah, all he is is some great athlete with no skills.


Not impressed either! He's a scrub!




I don't know why I bother with you.

He said in a different thread he was angry that lebron gets so much hype now. He's basically jealous that his favorite player is declining and there is very possibly a current player that will pass him up eventually.

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 05:04 PM
Look at the game Kobe had the best overall stats of the 3 Sure the heat won the game and I meant he schooled lebron in the post there is no shame in that Kobe makes everyone look silly down low haha he went one way and lebron the other... And no lebron is talented I never said he wasn't but if he wasn't so big and strong there is no way he would be this well rounded as a player you really think if he was Kobe's size he'd take most of his shots in the paint? No he wouldn't because it wouldn't be as easy getting in the paint

So how did Wade manage to score so easy on Kobe? Wasn't he guarding him? Hmmm... Kobe had the ball 24/7 and he makes Nash useless. LeBron and Wade shared the ball that game. Once again, if he schooled LeBron, which he didn't, why is he 13-6 against LeBron?

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/bc/84/bc84b019786345c05e100ec7aa1d3359.png

What does Kobe outplay him at? Shooting 42% FG%?

The reason LeBron is so good is because of his physique and athleticism.. He's a once in a lifetime athlete and that is why he's special. Name one player in any sport who is a better athlete than James... I don't care how you put it, if he's bigger, faster, and stronger than anyone else, that's not his problem.

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 05:06 PM
Era technically is a decade lol but if you mean 2010 and now then yes I agree

Yes, a decade is 10 years. LeBron has been that best player for the entire 10 years. Kobe, without those 3 rings courtesy of Shaq, would never be compared to LeBron.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 05:12 PM
No, but it seems that you're discrediting him by saying he only scores on the paint. It's not true and his 3 point FG % proves that. He can do what and when he wants.. That's the scary part.

I never once said all of his shots come from down low. I said MOST of his do, which is true. His primary focus is to attack the basket. He definitely has improved his outside shooting, especially his 3 point % also though.

His stats these past few games will also prove my point.
Against Raptors ---10-16 FG Ft's 9-11 Points 30
Rockets-----------11-18 FTs 7-10 Points 32

He only took 10 shots to get 30 points that night which is crazy. However he also took 11ft's which I can bet were fouls drawn by him attacking the basket. Which is my point, he makes a living off attacking the basket. Nothing wrong with that again with his size and all. Still an impressive streak to be on Im just not popping a boner over it.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 05:12 PM
So how did Wade manage to score so easy on Kobe? Wasn't he guarding him? Hmmm... Kobe had the ball 24/7 and he makes Nash useless. LeBron and Wade shared the ball that game. Once again, if he schooled LeBron, which he didn't, why is he 13-6 against LeBron?

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/bc/84/bc84b019786345c05e100ec7aa1d3359.png

What does Kobe outplay him at? Shooting 42% FG%?

The reason LeBron is so good is because of his physique and athleticism.. He's a once in a lifetime athlete and that is why he's special. Name one player in any sport who is a better athlete than James... I don't care how you put it, if he's bigger, faster, and stronger than anyone else, that's not his problem.

Lol when Kobe guarded him he barely scored did you watch the game? He scored most of his points on Meeks and whoever was guarding wade when Kobe switched on allen and he didn't shoot 42% he shot 11/20 that's 56% I believe get it right

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 05:14 PM
Lol when Kobe guarded him he barely scored did you watch the game? He scored most of his points on Meeks and whoever was guarding wade when Kobe switched on allen and he didn't shoot 42% he shot 11/20 that's 56% I believe get it right

So why is Kobe 13-6 in head to head matchups against LeBron? And why does he shoot 42 FG% against him?

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 05:14 PM
Yes, a decade is 10 years. LeBron has been that best player for the entire 10 years. Kobe, without those 3 rings courtesy of Shaq, would never be compared to LeBron.

:facepalm: how old are you 13?
Lol and 3 rings courtesy of Shaq, nice it's funny I remember Kobe stepping up and winning games for the lakers when Shaq was in foul trouble, he was guarding the teams best players while Shaq was guarding scrubs like smith lol but yeah it's all courtesy of Shaq.

mngopher35
02-14-2013, 05:15 PM
Yes, a decade is 10 years. LeBron has been that best player for the entire 10 years. Kobe, without those 3 rings courtesy of Shaq, would never be compared to LeBron.

If we are talking 2000-2010, then no way. That belongs to Kobe/Duncan with Shaq coming in third.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 05:15 PM
Yes, a decade is 10 years. LeBron has been that best player for the entire 10 years. Kobe, without those 3 rings courtesy of Shaq, would never be compared to LeBron.

Originally thought you meant this new decade (2010- current) but I see what you meant...

I disagree with you. You can't add those what IF statements to prove a point neither. So I can technically say, had Lebron not joined Wade and Bosh he'd still not have a ring???

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 05:16 PM
If we are talking 2000-2010, then no way. That belongs to Kobe/Duncan with Shaq coming in third.

Lol... he's trying to start the decade when Lebron joined the league, which is also not true either way :laugh2:

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 05:18 PM
Originally thought you meant this new decade (2010- current) but I see what you meant...

I disagree with you. You can't add those what IF statements to prove a point neither. So I can technically say, had Lebron not joined Wade and Bosh he'd still not have a ring???

When did I add "IF" statements? A decade ago would be 2002-2003, a year before James entered. Check his stats... He's been a beast since his second year in the NBA. Kobe only got two rings the past decade.

And "IF" statements apply in some cases. We all know Kobe wouldn't have won without Shaq, there's nothing to deny about that.

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 05:20 PM
The decade, 2003-2013, name one player who has been better than James...

mngopher35
02-14-2013, 05:24 PM
Lol... he's trying to start the decade when Lebron joined the league, which is also not true either way :laugh2:

Well, actually I think if we start his rookie year through the end of this year (10 years) there is definitely an argument for Lebron. If they win the title and he's finals mvp then yes then last 10 years would favor him pretty easily.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 05:28 PM
When did I add "IF" statements? A decade ago would be 2002-2003, a year before James entered. Check his stats... He's been a beast since his second year in the NBA. Kobe only got two rings the past decade.

And "IF" statements apply in some cases. We all know Kobe wouldn't have won without Shaq, there's nothing to deny about that.

Your making yourself look really dumb dude... No you didn't technically add an "IF" to your statement, you pretty much made a sentence, making it seem like it would be a fact that if Kobe didn't have Shaq he wouldn't have any of those 3 rings :rolleyes: (oh wait that's pretty much an IF statement).

And no Kobe was the better player from 2002-2008 than Lebron. Few years after that may be debatable due to the fact it was the time Kobe was leading his team to 2 more championships.

LeperMessiah
02-14-2013, 05:31 PM
Start having sex with your wife before someone else does.

He just won the thread

ElChinoLatino
02-14-2013, 05:31 PM
It's not that impressive when your 6'8 275 and can just overpower over anybody now if he wasn't so big and strong it would be so much more impressive, frankly lebrons game has never impressed me he's just so dominant though that he's the best in the NBA right now I can't wait until he's no longer in his prime to see how well he plays I wanna see what not being able to jump or run as fast does to his overall game, he better start getting that post game together, he should ask Kobe for some lessons after all he did take him to school whenever he was guarding the mamba in the post last sunday

Lol this has to be the most biased post I have even seen in PSD, and I have seen the wonders of DoMeFavors. "LeBron James is unimpressive because of his physique." If this is the case, then Nate Robinson and Allen Iverson are the GOATs since they were able to accomplished so much being 6' or less in height.

"I can't wait until he (LeBron) stops being so dominant right now so people could admire more Kobe."

"Eye balls deep in muddy water, ******* hypocrite."

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 05:32 PM
Your making yourself look really dumb dude... No you didn't technically add an "IF" to your statement, you pretty much made a sentence, making it seem like it would be a fact that if Kobe didn't have Shaq he wouldn't have any of those 3 rings :rolleyes: (oh wait that's pretty much an IF statement).

And no Kobe was the better player from 2002-2008 than Lebron. Few years after that may be debatable due to the fact it was the time Kobe was leading his team to 2 more championships.

Well, you're the one who misused the term "you're."

I never used a hypothetical statement. I simply stated that if Kobe didn't have his three rings that Shaq won, he wouldn't be as praised as now. He won those rings because of Shaq, that's not an IF statement.

I think you misread my post.

Kobe was arguably better in his 2002-2008 seasons.. From then on, it clearly goes to James. Kobe only has one more ring than James in the past decade.

Hawkeye15
02-14-2013, 05:33 PM
Lol this has to be the most biased post I have even seen in PSD, and I have seen the wonders of DoMeFavors. "LeBron James is unimpressive because of his physique." If this is the case, then Nate Robinson and Allen Iverson are the GOATs since they were able to accomplished so much being 6' or less in height.

"I can't wait until he (LeBron) stops being so dominant right now so people could admire more Kobe."

"Eye balls deep in muddy water, ******* hypocrite."

a fellow Tool fan. Nice!

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-14-2013, 05:41 PM
Look at the game Kobe had the best overall stats of the 3 Sure the heat won the game and I meant he schooled lebron in the post there is no shame in that Kobe makes everyone look silly down low haha he went one way and lebron the other... And no lebron is talented I never said he wasn't but if he wasn't so big and strong there is no way he would be this well rounded as a player you really think if he was Kobe's size he'd take most of his shots in the paint? No he wouldn't because it wouldn't be as easy getting in the paint

Yup. If Kobe was in Lebrons body, He would be the Goat

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 05:42 PM
Well, you're the one who misused the term "you're."

I never used a hypothetical statement. I simply stated that if Kobe didn't have his three rings that Shaq won, he wouldn't be as praised as now. He won those rings because of Shaq, that's not an IF statement.

I think you misread my post.

Kobe was arguably better in his 2002-2008 seasons.. From then on, it clearly goes to James. Kobe only has one more ring than James in the past decade.

I type 105 words per minute, sue me :)

Lol pretty sure that's an IF statement man, I use IF statements a lot... Im a computer programmer. However Kobe DID win those 3 rings, that's a straight out historical fact. He had the right team to do it those years to win it, you can't take those away... Just like I can't take away the fact that Lebron won a year last year because he had Wade and Bosh on his team. They still did it. We see it argument after argument on PSD. Takes a team effort to win it all.

yea thats a total of 6 years and more championships AND finals appearances than Lebron. Why not just admit it , those were Kobe's prime years so there's nothing wrong with him being the better player while Lebron was still growing in the NBA. Just like how now Lebron is in his prime while Kobe is getting ready to exit the NBA.

Hawkeye15
02-14-2013, 05:45 PM
Yup. If Kobe was in Lebrons body, He would be the Goat

love those arguments...

ElChinoLatino
02-14-2013, 05:46 PM
Yup. If Kobe was in Lebrons body, He would be the Goat

If I were to be in Jordan's body I would be the GOAT. If I were to be in blah blah blah who cares about all those IFs. Give facts dude FACTS.

Hawkeye15
02-14-2013, 05:46 PM
I type 105 words per minute, sue me :)

Lol pretty sure that's an IF statement man, I use IF statements a lot... Im a computer programmer. However Kobe DID win those 3 rings, that's a straight out historical fact. He had the right team to do it those years to win it, you can't take those away... Just like I can't take away the fact that Lebron won a year last year because he had Wade and Bosh on his team. They still did it. We see it argument after argument on PSD. Takes a team effort to win it all.

yea thats a total of 6 years and more championships AND finals appearances than Lebron. Why not just admit it , those were Kobe's prime years so there's nothing wrong with him being the better player while Lebron was still growing in the NBA. Just like how now Lebron is in his prime while Kobe is getting ready to exit the NBA.

Is that the strength of your argument? Um, should we whip up roster support for each guy over that time period?

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 05:46 PM
I type 105 words per minute, sue me :)

Lol pretty sure that's an IF statement man, I use IF statements a lot... Im a computer programmer. However Kobe DID win those 3 rings, that's a straight out historical fact. He had the right team to do it those years to win it, you can't take those away... Just like I can't take away the fact that Lebron won a year last year because he had Wade and Bosh on his team. They still did it. We see it argument after argument on PSD. Takes a team effort to win it all.

yea thats a total of 6 years and more championships AND finals appearances than Lebron. Why not just admit it , those were Kobe's prime years so there's nothing wrong with him being the better player while Lebron was still growing in the NBA. Just like how now Lebron is in his prime while Kobe is getting ready to exit the NBA.

Is it an IF statement that Kobe won because of Shaq? By your logic, all statements regarding the past are IF. Some are true, some are hypothetical. I never said LeBron didn't win without Wade and Bosh but LeBron was the best player in the playoffs. Kobe wasn't the best player in those playoffs.

I'd argue with Kobe's seasons. I don't think he was a better player than James from those years. I only gave it to him because I know how many Kobe fans are going to be quick and bash me that Kobe was better. If you compare stats and team record, LeBron has been better than Kobe. Kobe hasn't had a good team for only 3 years of his career? James had to endure 7 years of role players and that limited his success.

What I do admit is that Kobe is the second greatest player in my book so I'm not a hater, just a realist.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-14-2013, 05:49 PM
Yup. If Kobe was in Lebrons body, He would be the Goat

No doubt, but there are no what ifs bro

Faneik
02-14-2013, 05:57 PM
Well this should not be a shock and I think goes without saying. Its become very evident that this generation has belonged to Kobe as the greatest player and winner of his era. Now we've moved onto the Lebron/Durant era, while Kobe is still relative and one of the top 5 or 6 players in the game.

pre 2005: shaq and duncan

after 2005: lebron

kobe was at the top but he was never the greatest of his time

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 05:58 PM
Is it an IF statement that Kobe won because of Shaq? By your logic, all statements regarding the past are IF. Some are true, some are hypothetical. I never said LeBron didn't win without Wade and Bosh but LeBron was the best player in the playoffs. Kobe wasn't the best player in those playoffs.

I'd argue with Kobe's seasons. I don't think he was a better player than James from those years. I only gave it to him because I know how many Kobe fans are going to be quick and bash me that Kobe was better. If you compare stats and team record, LeBron has been better than Kobe. Kobe hasn't had a good team for only 3 years of his career? James had to endure 7 years of role players and that limited his success.

What I do admit is that Kobe is the second greatest player in my book so I'm not a hater, just a realist.

No, your actually stating your opinion that he wouldn't have those without Shaq because Shaq was the better player. So according to your logic, Shaq would still have those 3 rings without Kobe because he was the better player anyways??. Therefore, Lebron would still have won it last year even if he still didn't have Wade?
Which means Jordan would still have those 6 rings even without Pippen? NO, they wont because these examples I just named made great teams together and thus they won the championship.

Faneik
02-14-2013, 05:58 PM
Yup. If Kobe was in Lebrons body, He would be the Goat

if iverson had the body of kobe he would be better than kobe

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-14-2013, 06:00 PM
If I were to be in Jordan's body I would be the GOAT. If I were to be in blah blah blah who cares about all those IFs. Give facts dude FACTS.

The point i'm trying to make is Kobe is more skilled while lebron is 50 percent Body 50 percent skill.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-14-2013, 06:00 PM
if iverson had the body of kobe he would be better than kobe

Not even close.

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 06:01 PM
No, your actually stating your opinion that he wouldn't have those without Shaq because Shaq was the better player. So according to your logic, Shaq would still have those 3 rings without Kobe because he was the better player anyways??. Therefore, Lebron would still have won it last year even if he still didn't have Wade?
Which means Jordan would still have those 6 rings even without Pippen?

Sorry but that's not true.

Please learn to read. You put your own assumptions into my posts. I said Kobe won't have three rings without Shaq, vice versa. But the fact is Kobe wasn't the best player during the playoff run. Jordan and James on the other hand were the best players. Your logic basically places all "if" statements as nothing but hypothetical. I don't think Kobe could've won without Shaq during that stint; neither could Shaq.

Anyways, that has nothing to do with what the OP was asking. Turned to a LeBron vs Kobe pretty quick.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 06:02 PM
if iverson had the body of kobe he would be better than kobe

If Kobe had Chamberlain's swag, he would have ****ed more chicks than Chamberlain.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 06:09 PM
Please learn to read. You put your own assumptions into my posts. I said Kobe won't have three rings without Shaq, vice versa. But the fact is Kobe wasn't the best player during the playoff run. Jordan and James on the other hand were the best players. Your logic basically places all "if" statements as nothing but hypothetical. I don't think Kobe could've won without Shaq during that stint; neither could Shaq.

Anyways, that has nothing to do with what the OP was asking. Turned to a LeBron vs Kobe pretty quick.

LOL wtf... go back 2 pages, YOU started the whole Kobe Lebron debate :laugh2:

but no you can't just go ahead and discredit Kobe's 3 rings because he played with Shaq, which is in all honesty what your trying to do.

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 06:12 PM
LOL wtf... go back 2 pages, YOU started the whole Kobe Lebron debate :laugh2:

but no you can't just go ahead and discredit Kobe's 3 rings because he played with Shaq, which is in all honesty what your trying to do.

I can't take you serious anymore. I didn't start the Kobe and LeBron debate.. Go back like 4 or 5 pages.

I never discredited Kobe's three rings. I'm simply saying he wasn't the best player during that run and that's not a lie. If LeBron didn't win the MVP last year and Wade did, they would say he wasn't the best and criticize him.

I don't want to keep it a LeBron vs Kobe thread because we can go on for 1000 pages.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-14-2013, 06:15 PM
I can't take you serious anymore. I didn't start the Kobe and LeBron debate.. Go back like 4 or 5 pages.

I never discredited Kobe's three rings. I'm simply saying he wasn't the best player during that run and that's not a lie. If LeBron didn't win the MVP last year and Wade did, they would say he wasn't the best and criticize him.

I don't want to keep it a LeBron vs Kobe thread because we can go on for 1000 pages.

What ever you say DNG!

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 06:30 PM
I can't take you serious anymore. I didn't start the Kobe and LeBron debate.. Go back like 4 or 5 pages.

I never discredited Kobe's three rings. I'm simply saying he wasn't the best player during that run and that's not a lie. If LeBron didn't win the MVP last year and Wade did, they would say he wasn't the best and criticize him.

I don't want to keep it a LeBron vs Kobe thread because we can go on for 1000 pages.

Your one of the worst debaters on here because you keep changing what your trying to say...

Your own posts on here:

I never used a hypothetical statement. I simply stated that if Kobe didn't have his three rings that Shaq won, he wouldn't be as praised as now. He won those rings because of Shaq, that's not an IF statement.



We all know Kobe wouldn't have won without Shaq, there's nothing to deny about that.

That's you discrediting Kobe.
But to your NEW point. Yes your right, though It's not Kobe's fault he played with the Most dominating center of all time during that center's prime. That still doesn't mean those rings are voided

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 06:35 PM
Your one of the worst debaters on here because you keep changing what your trying to say...

Your own posts on here:




That's you discrediting Kobe.
But to your NEW point. Yes your right, though It's not Kobe's fault he played with the Most dominating center of all time during that center's prime. That still doesn't mean those rings are voided

Why do you keep bumping this thread with nonsense? There's nothing to discuss. You just want to bring something from nothing. You don't know what discrediting means. Kobe wasn't the best player those title runs and that is why I said they were Shaq's rings. If you're not the best player on the playoff team, you're not the best.

LeBron was the best player. Jordan was the best player. Kobe wasn't the best player. I mean I don't see what's wrong at all.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 06:35 PM
Is that the strength of your argument? Um, should we whip up roster support for each guy over that time period?

Wasn't the strength of my argument, However it deserves to be included.

ManRam
02-14-2013, 06:39 PM
Yup. If Kobe was in Lebrons body, He would be the Goat

Cool. But he's not.

Doesn't make Kobe better than he is or LeBron worse than he is. They are exactly what they are. Period.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 06:41 PM
Why do you keep bumping this thread with nonsense? There's nothing to discuss. You just want to bring something from nothing. You don't know what discrediting means. Kobe wasn't the best player those title runs and that is why I said they were Shaq's rings. If you're not the best player on the playoff team, you're not the best.

LeBron was the best player. Jordan was the best player. Kobe wasn't the best player. I mean I don't see what's wrong at all.

Didn't know proving you wrong with your own posts was nonsense... oh well... Don't try and telling me what discrediting means, what are you 16 years old?
Your like a chick that after she knows she's wrong she just says "whatever!" and forgets the conversation haha. I simply quoted ManRam I believe, and you started mentioning Kobe yet im trying to make something out of nothing.

zn23
02-14-2013, 06:42 PM
LeBron's not ahead of Kobe right now because of longevity. If LeBron plays like this for 4-5 more years then we can have that discussion. In his prime, Bron has been better individually I don't think there's any statistical argument suggesting otherwise, but for all-time rankings that isn't enough. He's gotta get the longevity stuff out of the way first.

The rings will come now that he's on a team comparable to Kobe's championship teams. Kobe never won with as little as Bron had in Cleveland, so why do we hold LeBron to those high standards and fault him for not doing something Kobe also never did? I've never once gotten an answer from a Kobe fan explaining that.

I have him ranked ahead of Kobe in all-time regards. I have LeBron at 12, Kobe at 13. How many players have 3 MVP's and 1 Finals MVP? it's a very short list. Not to mention statistically LeBron is just far superior in every category.

The only argument for Kobe is "5 rings", the problem with that argument is obviously it's flawed, but every year that argument is going be diminished and go from "Kobe has 4 more", "Kobe has 3 more" Kobe has 2 more" to eventual silence.

The ring argument is simply not going to last forever. Eventually that card will be useless. Whereas the amount of MVP's between the two will increase, LeBron has two more, three more, 4 more... and so on.

Lets not forget, at his best Kobe can't hold a candle to LeBron's best years. These past 4 years by LeBron have been all-time great. Kobe's simply not on that level.

But hey 5 rings!!!

OceanSpray
02-14-2013, 06:44 PM
Didn't know proving you wrong with your own posts was nonsense... oh well... Don't try and telling me what discrediting means, what are you 16 years old?
Your like a chick that after she knows she's wrong she just says "whatever!" and forgets the conversation haha. I simply quoted ManRam I believe, and you started mentioning Kobe yet im trying to make something out of nothing.

Whatever, I don't want to discuss with an individual who calls me a kid but doesn't know the difference between you're and your. If you can't distinguish those two words from one another, you shouldn't be calling anyone a kid.

ManRam
02-14-2013, 06:45 PM
I have him ranked ahead of Kobe in all-time regards. I have LeBron at 12, Kobe at 13. How many players have 3 MVP's and 1 Finals MVP? it's a very short list. Not to mention statistically LeBron is just far superior in every category.

The only argument for Kobe is "5 rings", the problem with that argument is obviously it's flawed, but every year that argument is going be diminished and go from "Kobe has 4 more", "Kobe has 3 more" Kobe has 2 more" to eventual silence.

The ring argument is simply not going to last forever. Eventually that card will be useless. Whereas the amount of MVP's between the two will increase, LeBron has two more, three more, 4 more... and so on.

Lets not forget, at his best Kobe can't hold a candle to LeBron's best years. These past 4 years by LeBron have been all-time great. Kobe's simply not on that level.

But hey 5 rings!!!

I'm not gonna facepalm you like Lakers fans, since they can't articulate a proper rebuttal...

But I think Kobe's longevity gives him the edge. I don't care too much for wins. They matter in context, but LeBron does need to win another before I'll think about it. He don't need 5 to be better than Kobe, but he needs to win again now that he's on a team that should win.

But yes, 5 rings is all they'll ultimately end up with...and that's why they're getting so defensive lately...because it's becoming glaringly obvious.

zn23
02-14-2013, 06:50 PM
I'm not gonna facepalm you like Lakers fans, since they can't articulate a proper rebuttal...

But I think Kobe's longevity gives him the edge. I don't care too much for wins. They matter in context, but LeBron does need to win another before I'll think about it. He don't need 5 to be better than Kobe, but he needs to win again now that he's on a team that should win.

But yes, 5 rings is all they'll ultimately end up with...and that's why they're getting so defensive lately...because it's becoming glaringly obvious.

I agree. IMO If LeBron wins a a title this year, plus a Finals MVP(that's important too), If he wins the MVP over Durant (close race so far). I think it's a nail in the coffin for the discussion. Because he'll have the same amount of Finals MVP's + 3 more MVP's. That's going to be really hard to argue against, especially with the way he's been playing. Obviously the stats argument is 100% in LeBron's favor.

ManRam
02-14-2013, 06:54 PM
Yup. If Kobe was in Lebrons body, He would be the Goat

One more thought on this stupid comment.


If Wes Welker had Calvin Johnson's body he'd be the GOAT!

If David Eckstein had Barry Bonds' body he'd be the GOAT!

If I had Michael Phelp's body I'd be the GOAT!

If this dude (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ4fA_nwnZ0) had Usain Bolt's body he'd be the GOAT!


No one gives a **** about those arguments. Kobe has his body, LeBron has his. It is what it is. Nothing needs to be taken into account.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 07:01 PM
Whatever, I don't want to discuss with an individual who calls me a kid but doesn't know the difference between you're and your. If you can't distinguish those two words from one another, you shouldn't be calling anyone a kid.

Sorry about that forgot YOU'RE the grammar police.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-14-2013, 07:42 PM
One more thought on this stupid comment.


If Wes Welker had Calvin Johnson's body he'd be the GOAT!

If David Eckstein had Barry Bonds' body he'd be the GOAT!

If I had Michael Phelp's body I'd be the GOAT!

If this dude (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ4fA_nwnZ0) had Usain Bolt's body he'd be the GOAT!


No one gives a **** about those arguments. Kobe has his body, LeBron has his. It is what it is. Nothing needs to be taken into account.

Kobes skills> Lebrons
Lebrons body > Kobes

ManRam
02-14-2013, 07:49 PM
Kobes skills> Lebrons
Lebrons body > Kobes

Sure.

And it doesn't matter one bit when comparing players.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-14-2013, 07:57 PM
Sure.

And it doesn't matter one bit when comparing players.

Sure does, One has more basketball skills. The other is just an athletic freak.

mngopher35
02-14-2013, 08:02 PM
Sure does.

What matters is the players production and impact. If size and athleticism were taken out for players there wouldn't be nearly as many big men in the top 10. Guards are generally more skilled than big men, but big men produce more.

ManRam
02-14-2013, 08:03 PM
Sure does.

OK, keep coming up with silly reasons to justify what you WANT to believe.

Results matter. Production matters. Not HOW you achieve those thing.


OK. So, Yao was better than Shaq in their respective primes?

John Stockton is better than Magic Johnson?

Bird better than Jordan?

West better than Kobe?


I mean, you're gonna have to be consistent here. Knock every hyper-athletic player down in favor of the lesser player who is more skilled.

5ass
02-14-2013, 08:10 PM
Kobes skills> Lebrons
Lebrons body > Kobes

Skills? What about team skills? Lebron has better court vision and better passing. Give me Lebron on my team over prime Kobe any day. Lebron gets his team involved and that does wonders for ur team chemistry, morale and effort. Which are all HUGE factors that should be taken into consideration when comparing Kobe and Lebron.

Take this scenario:
Its 1996 and the Lakers have to choose between trading Divac for Kobe or Lebron. Lets say the lakers know how these 2 players will perform in their careers. You think they would choose Kobe over Lebron? I think not, Lebron wouldnt have clashed with the best player on the team, and let his ego **** up a great thing.

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 08:53 PM
Skills? What about team skills? Lebron has better court vision and better passing. Give me Lebron on my team over prime Kobe any day. Lebron gets his team involved and that does wonders for ur team chemistry, morale and effort. Which are all HUGE factors that should be taken into consideration when comparing Kobe and Lebron.

Take this scenario:
Its 1996 and the Lakers have to choose between trading Divac for Kobe or Lebron. Lets say the lakers know how these 2 players will perform in their careers. You think they would choose Kobe over Lebron? I think not, Lebron wouldnt have clashed with the best player on the team, and let his ego **** up a great thing.

Didn't know you stepped into another dimension and saw how Lebron with prime Shaq turned out.

ManRam
02-14-2013, 09:05 PM
Didn't know you stepped into another dimension and saw how Lebron with prime Shaq turned out.

You're insinuating that Shaq is the only teammate Kobe clashed with for incredibly petty reasons.

That's cute!

bluefire7002
02-14-2013, 09:07 PM
You're insinuating that Shaq is the only teammate Kobe clashed with for incredibly petty reasons.

That's cute!

I'm actually insinuating that Lebron is the perfect teammate and all his teammates have liked him, so why wouldnt this work in another dimension :p

zn23
02-14-2013, 09:21 PM
Sure does, One has more basketball skills. The other is just an athletic freak.

That kind of makes Kobe sound like underachiever...

ManRam
02-14-2013, 09:24 PM
Sure does, One has more basketball skills. The other is just an athletic freak.

And both can make you a great basketball player. It doesn't matter HOW, it just matters that you are.


And let's stop acting like Kobe isn't very physically gifted for a 2 guard...

5ass
02-15-2013, 05:48 AM
Other than what i mentioned earlier, lets not forget that lebron's versatility is one of his most valuable skills. His ability to guard and play multiple postitions (pg,sg,sf,pf) makes the coach's job 10 times easier. That, and his amazing court vision make Lebron a better basketball player to me. He made Mike Brown coach of the year in 09. Kobe had phil jackson during his championship runs. Not only did he have great teams, he had the best coach of all time.

Money_23
02-15-2013, 11:18 AM
I never thought I would have said this, but Lebron is currently playing at prime MJ level. Strictly peak wise, his last year is top ten all time. If he manages to win another one this year, which I don't see how the Heat can't, it'll be even better than last year's. Incredible.

sep11ie
02-16-2013, 02:23 PM
Brock Lesnar wins this thread.

I miss you!