PDA

View Full Version : Michael Jordan's Triple Double Streak



Tymathee
02-12-2013, 08:21 PM
Nuff said, just :facepalm: :clap:

http://www.interbasket.net/news/10741/2013/02/michael-jordans-streak-of-10-triple-doubles-in-11-games/


With all the talk about LeBron James‘ current run of five straight games of 30 points at the 70% clip and how it may be the best stretch of games in NBA history – some may have forgotten Michael Jordan‘s insane run of triple-doubles during the 1988-89 season.

In an experimental move by Phil Jackson, the Bulls moved Jordan to point guard for part of the season and as only Jordan can, he responded with 10 triples doubles in 11 games. (edit: okay, maybe Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, and Larry Bird could have , if they were so challenged).



TEAM W/L DATE PTS RBS AST
Seattle Supersonics W 03/25/1989 21 12 12
Golden St. Warriors W 03/28/1989 33 12 11
Milwaukee Bucks W 03/29/1989 32 10 10
Cleveland Cavs L 03/31/1989 37 10 10
New Jersey Nets W 04/02/1989 27 14 12
Charlotte Hornets W 04/04/1989 33 10 12
Detroit Pistons L 04/06/1989 31 13 10
Detroit Pistons L 04/07/1989 40 7 11
Atlanta Hawks L 04/09/1989 40 10 12
Indiana Pacers L 04/13/1989 47 11 13
New Jersey Nets L 04/14/1989 29 10 12
5-6 N/A 33.6 10.8 11.4

Sactown
02-12-2013, 08:30 PM
Michael Jordan's era played at a much faster pace during that era, in fact did you know that the 1988-1989 Bulls took 2000 more shots than the 2011-2012 Heat?? and the Heat are even playing slower this season.. 2000 shots is slightly over 24 more shots a game. The Bulls also had over 700 more rebounds and 1000 more assists Also MJ played over 42 minutes a game during that stretch? Lebron James played 1 game over 40 minutes during his...

Lebrons is definitely more impressive when you put all the pieces together.

tredigs
02-12-2013, 08:44 PM
Michael Jordan's era played at a much faster pace during that era, in fact did you know that the 1988-1989 Bulls took 2000 more shots than the 2011-2012 Heat?? and the Heat are even playing slower this season.. 2000 shots is slightly over 24 more shots a game. The Bulls also had over 700 more rebounds and 1000 more assists Also MJ played over 42 minutes a game during that stretch? Lebron James played 1 game over 40 minutes during his...

Lebrons is definitely more impressive when you put all the pieces together.

Even regulated, it's still 31/7/6 with 4.2 TO's a game for LBJ. The only thing truly extraordinary about it is the FG%. Overall scoring efficiency is slightly less exciting with the 9.4 FTA/G at 76%. That's not touching >2x as many games of triple doubles. If he keeps it up for another week+ of games coming off the ASB, it at least becomes a discussion against that run. Certainly not yet. And let's not forget that the average defensive rank is ~20th of the teams hes faced. Amazing little run, but let's keep perspective on all aspects.

ATX
02-12-2013, 08:46 PM
MJ is GOAT...That stretch was simply phenomenal.

I think this is just a **** on LBJ thread.

ATX
02-12-2013, 08:47 PM
LBJ is doing historic things right now, but let's just disregard all of it, because MJ was better. smh...

D_Rose1118
02-12-2013, 08:47 PM
jordans 1988-89 season might be the best statistical season for anyone

Sactown
02-12-2013, 08:52 PM
Even regulated, it's still 31/7/6 with 4.2 TO's a game for LBJ. The only thing truly extraordinary about it is the FG%. Overall scoring efficiency is slightly less exciting with the 9.4 FTA/G at 76%. That's not touching >2x as many games of triple doubles. If he keeps it up for another week+ of games coming off the ASB, it at least becomes a discussion against that run. Certainly not yet. And let's not forget that the average defensive rank is ~20th of the teams hes faced. Amazing little run, but let's keep perspective on all aspects.

Do you happen to know the defensive rating of the teams MJ did it against? And Like my first post indicates, MJ's triple doubles are nearly as impressive if you consider the pace and the minutes played.. Lebron averages close to 10 minutes less a game in a slower pace... I'm just saying.. I do believe Lebron gets the edge, if you compare 5 games against 5, obviously 5 games from now we'll have a better understanding of the comparison.
But let's not act like MJ's numbers blow Lebrons out of the water just by looking at raw statistics.. if we do that we might as well throw in Oscars numbers.

RipCity32
02-12-2013, 08:52 PM
That is very impressive

Yanks All Day
02-12-2013, 08:55 PM
Extremely impressive, but I do think it's telling that the Bulls were 5-6 in that 11 game stretch.

rocket
02-12-2013, 09:02 PM
Holy ****. I have never watched Jordan play since I'm a young fella, but GOD damn those stats are insane. Now I see why some believe that Jordan will always be the greatest.

hidalgo
02-12-2013, 09:11 PM
unreal...

Bishnoff
02-12-2013, 09:59 PM
Jordan was a freak.

Chronz
02-12-2013, 10:16 PM
don't know who's was better, haven't seen anything expansive on both stretches but I do know that MJ became obsessed with triple doubles during that span. Both were chasing history/goals but MJs attitude during that stretch slightly detracts from it.


jordans 1988-89 season might be the best statistical season for anyone
Definitely the prettiest but MJ has had better

ManRam
02-12-2013, 10:20 PM
MJ was obviously amazing.

LeBron may or may not compare.

Either way, I'm gonna ENJOY LeBron while I can...and worry about stupid **** later.

thephoenixson28
02-12-2013, 10:34 PM
A lot of people like to compare the old with the new. Jordan played in a era where 6"11 was a center. Why don't you think wilt was so dominating when he played. Not taking anything away from Jordan cuz he was the best in his Era. But lebron is a freak, who is to say if lebron played in Jordans era that he wouldn't do the same. The only arguement people have is hand checking. I want to see Jordan play against 7"0 PF. But we won't be able to, so why should we argue about it.

JerseyPalahniuk
02-12-2013, 10:35 PM
MJ also had a six game stretch where he averaged 46 PPG (on 60% shooting), 10 RPG, and 5.5 APG.

But let's enjoy Lebron's stretch. :facepalm: at the OP for trying to undermine Lebron's stretch by comparing it to the best player of all time's best statistical stretch of all time

ManRam
02-12-2013, 11:03 PM
MJ also had a six game stretch where he averaged 46 PPG (on 60% shooting), 10 RPG, and 5.5 APG.

But let's enjoy Lebron's stretch. :facepalm: at the OP for trying to undermine Lebron's stretch by comparing it to the best player of all time's best statistical stretch of all time

Seriously.

OMG HIS STRETCH DOESN'T BEST THE GREATEST PLAYER EVER'S BEST STRETCH!!!!

That's why the OP just gotta learn to ENJOY!

Slug3
02-12-2013, 11:04 PM
MJ was obviously amazing.

LeBron may or may not compare.

Either way, I'm gonna ENJOY LeBron while I can...and worry about stupid **** later.

Why can't more people just be like this. There are people in here who get upset cause they never got to watch Jordan play. There are going to be people in 15 years who didnt get to watch Lebron now and all the people on here want to bag on him cause they don't like him cause he's good and not on their team. When Lebron leaves Miami I will still enjoy his game.

Big Zo
02-12-2013, 11:06 PM
Bringing up that retired old fart again? Yeesh...

ThuglifeJ
02-12-2013, 11:08 PM
Michael Jordan's era played at a much faster pace during that era, in fact did you know that the 1988-1989 Bulls took 2000 more shots than the 2011-2012 Heat?? and the Heat are even playing slower this season.. 2000 shots is slightly over 24 more shots a game. The Bulls also had over 700 more rebounds and 1000 more assists Also MJ played over 42 minutes a game during that stretch? Lebron James played 1 game over 40 minutes during his...

Lebrons is definitely more impressive when you put all the pieces together.

am I the only one who watched the Lebron efficiency games? Yah they're great, except the first one was vs the Bobcats and there was little to no D on every highlight. I thought him making some of those bank hook shots and what not were great but realistically most his shots were pretty easy for an NBA player. His missed shots he got to the line as well..

not to discredit it but it's not close to as impressive as Jordan's TD streak.

I mean just watch highlights of Jordan vs highlights of Bron. Jordan's doing it against tight D and 3 opponents camping the lane when he needs to. I dont know any current NBA players that could score on that consistently

JerseyPalahniuk
02-12-2013, 11:23 PM
not to discredit it but it's not close to as impressive as Jordan's TD streak.

I mean just watch highlights of Jordan vs highlights of Bron. Jordan's doing it against tight D and 3 opponents camping the lane when he needs to. I dont know any current NBA players that could score on that consistently

That's the point...this streak is amazing. Why bring it up in the first place? Who would argue that a 6 game streak of 30+ and 60% FG is more impressive then a triple double streak?

bucketss
02-12-2013, 11:51 PM
op is clearly threatened.

JasonJohnHorn
02-13-2013, 12:17 AM
Regardless of the number of possessions and the minutes played, Jordan's streak was AMAZING!!!! Jordan played amazing basketball that year, and for me, I think that season was his most impressive statistical season. That said, it says Phil Jackson put Jordan at PG, but Doug Collins was actually the coach that season (though it is possible Phil Jackson is the one who suggested the move). Jordan average 8 boards and 8 assists that season. FAWKING INCREDIBLE!!! Jordan was essentially 2 board and 2 assists short of a triple double (so 4 r+a short). Jason Kidd was closer in that he averaged a double-double in 07/08 and was 2.5 rebounds short of a triple-double, Kidd was also 2.8 rebounds shy of averaging a triple-double in 99/00, so technically Kidd was closer to averaging a triple-double than was Jordan, but considering Kidd was scoring in the low teens and Jordan was averaging over 30 points a game with a much higher percentage than Kidd, I think it's fair to say Jordan's season was more impressive.

But yeah, taking into consideration the number of possessions, LBJ's rebounding numbers are certainly more impressive than Jordan's, and his assist numbers, it could be argued, are at least as impressive.

Either way, both Jordan and LBJ are amazing and will likely each go down as the best players at their respective positions.

Becks2307
02-13-2013, 12:19 AM
A lot of people like to compare the old with the new. Jordan played in a era where 6"11 was a center. Why don't you think wilt was so dominating when he played. Not taking anything away from Jordan cuz he was the best in his Era. But lebron is a freak, who is to say if lebron played in Jordans era that he wouldn't do the same. The only arguement people have is hand checking. I want to see Jordan play against 7"0 PF. But we won't be able to, so why should we argue about it.

You have got to be kidding me trying to use that debate vs Jordan. Which 7"0 PFs is Lebron playing against today?

thephoenixson28
02-13-2013, 12:51 AM
You have got to be kidding me trying to use that debate vs Jordan. Which 7"0 PFs is Lebron playing against today?

Dirk,Gasol,Garnett,Duncan just to name a few. There is one thing that thrives the next person that plays this sport, they want to be better than the next guy. That's why there is so many records broken everyday. Believe me when I say this. Have you seen a 7"6 Chinese person play like Yoa Ming. The game is evolving right in front of your eyes, but people don't want to see that.

Sactown
02-13-2013, 12:59 AM
If everyone is going to disregard Pace and MPG than Wilt and Oscar are better than Jordan... you can't pick and choose when to use Pace and MPG...

envymamba24
02-13-2013, 01:26 AM
MJ was obviously amazing.

LeBron may or may not compare.

Either way, I'm gonna ENJOY LeBron while I can...and worry about stupid **** later.

Thank you! I really wish more people shared this mentality, not only in basketball, but in all sports. Except Tom Brady..**** Tom Brady

Sactown
02-13-2013, 01:29 AM
am I the only one who watched the Lebron efficiency games? Yah they're great, except the first one was vs the Bobcats and there was little to no D on every highlight. I thought him making some of those bank hook shots and what not were great but realistically most his shots were pretty easy for an NBA player. His missed shots he got to the line as well..

not to discredit it but it's not close to as impressive as Jordan's TD streak.

I mean just watch highlights of Jordan vs highlights of Bron. Jordan's doing it against tight D and 3 opponents camping the lane when he needs to. I dont know any current NBA players that could score on that consistently

And Lebrons scoring on chopped liver?
Also 3 of those 10 games were against the top notch NBA teams, the other 7 were against chopped liver.

Twins Fanatic
02-13-2013, 01:49 AM
Don't get how the bulls only went 5-6 in that stretch....

WOwolfOL
02-13-2013, 01:59 AM
Don't get how the bulls only went 5-6 in that stretch....

Peep the roster: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1989.html

This was a very young Pippen and Grant. Both 23, still finding their way. Also, the teams that beat them were much better in that time.

WOwolfOL
02-13-2013, 02:10 AM
Peep Jordan's game log from that year and that stretch was actually surrounded by a 19 game streak where he had at least 9 assists; only 2 games did he have 9.

But all props to LBJ. He is a generational talent. I'd love to see him play Tight End, I don't think there is a linebacker alive who could cover him. If ****ing Jimmy Graham can put up 1300, LBJ could crack 2K.

BklyNyk
02-13-2013, 03:17 AM
Jordan's stretch was more impressive IMO but that doesn't change the fact that Lebron has been amazing.

ClearSoulForce
02-13-2013, 03:26 AM
Lmao Kobe isn't getting attention and people aren't saying he's the. GOAT so a Lakers fan has to **** all over LeBron...

bholly
02-13-2013, 03:27 AM
don't know who's was better, haven't seen anything expansive on both stretches but I do know that MJ became obsessed with triple doubles during that span. Both were chasing history/goals but MJs attitude during that stretch slightly detracts from it.


Definitely the prettiest but MJ has had better

Was wondering about this, given how many of those games he just got there.

ThuglifeJ
02-13-2013, 03:38 AM
You have got to be kidding me trying to use that debate vs Jordan. Which 7"0 PFs is Lebron playing against today?

Dirk Nowitzki and Pau Gasol obviously. Both were in talks for DPOY at one point

ThuglifeJ
02-13-2013, 03:43 AM
Dirk,Gasol,Garnett,Duncan just to name a few. There is one thing that thrives the next person that plays this sport, they want to be better than the next guy. That's why there is so many records broken everyday. Believe me when I say this. Have you seen a 7"6 Chinese person play like Yoa Ming. The game is evolving right in front of your eyes, but people don't want to see that.

Nope, havn't seen anything like Yao Ming. Yi Janlian was leagues worse. So we havn't evolved in that regard...

speaking of that I really friggin miss Yao Ming that was the most exciting debut I've ever lived to see imo. I was so mind-blown seeing a giant asian shooting like that. 2000 NBA was so mythological-like.

ThuglifeJ
02-13-2013, 03:50 AM
And Lebrons scoring on chopped liver?
Also 3 of those 10 games were against the top notch NBA teams, the other 7 were against chopped liver.

Besides OKC, Clippers..mabye Spurs, maybe Bulls.. No team the Heat face are scary to face by any means. Every other team you can score pretty willfully if you're a star player.

there arent defensive crazy Bigs running around anymore to stop you (B. Wallace, Shaq, Zo, Robinson, etc) and Ron Artest type players aren't young anymore. You don't see many teams besides the ones I mentioned flying around trying to block every layup you put up.

naps
02-13-2013, 04:10 AM
I am not sure if anyone with the right mind saying LeBron is having the best 6 game stretch of all time. What I read is just that nobody in the history of the game has ever scored 30 or more points a game with 60% FG in a 6 game stretch. This absolutely doesn't mean it's the greatest 6 game stretch by any means. Where is the confusion and why did you need to compare two COMPLETELY different topics? Oh the thread was made by a LA/Kobe fan. Surprise! Surprise!

LOOTERX9
02-13-2013, 05:22 AM
Holy ****. I have never watched Jordan play since I'm a young fella, but GOD damn those stats are insane. Now I see why some believe that Jordan will always be the greatest.

Jordan and prime shaq were the 2 most dominant players i've ever seen in my lifetime. Lebron is gonna have to prove to me that he has the killer instinct to go out there and win atleast 2 more titles before I start putting him in Jordan territory. Lebron has the physical skills to be all time great but his mental flaws are a huge drawback for him

JiffyMix88
02-13-2013, 09:42 AM
don't know who's was better, haven't seen anything expansive on both stretches but I do know that MJ became obsessed with triple doubles during that span. Both were chasing history/goals but MJs attitude during that stretch slightly detracts from it.


Definitely the prettiest but MJ has had better

How?

Swashcuff
02-13-2013, 10:04 AM
Michael Jordan's era played at a much faster pace during that era, in fact did you know that the 1988-1989 Bulls took 2000 more shots than the 2011-2012 Heat?? and the Heat are even playing slower this season.. 2000 shots is slightly over 24 more shots a game. The Bulls also had over 700 more rebounds and 1000 more assists Also MJ played over 42 minutes a game during that stretch? Lebron James played 1 game over 40 minutes during his...

Lebrons is definitely more impressive when you put all the pieces together.

So wait a minute you're going to compare a team who played an 82 game season to a team that played a 66 games.

In Jordan's time the average amount of rebounds per game for a team was 43.9 this season the league average is 42.2. Not a monumental difference. Also there is very little correlation (http://wagesofwins.com/2012/12/14/rethinking-assists/) between pace and assists. So little that most statisticians really don't recognize there as being one. Because you play a higher pace doesn't automatically mean you're going to get more assists. Same goes for pace and efficiency (http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7225) (read comment #30).

Hell even if you adjust Jordan's and Bron's numbers for pace/mpg Jordan still comes out more impressive.

So try again.


If everyone is going to disregard Pace and MPG than Wilt and Oscar are better than Jordan... you can't pick and choose when to use Pace and MPG...

Even when you take pace and mpg into consideration Jordan was better than Wilt and Oscar in almost every facet.

Nats_vcu-Okc35
02-13-2013, 03:54 PM
MJ was obviously amazing.

LeBron may or may not compare.

Either way, I'm gonna ENJOY LeBron while I can...and worry about stupid **** later.

Thank you. Once in a generation is once in a generation for a reason.

blahblahyoutoo
02-13-2013, 06:03 PM
triple double is an overrated stat IMO.

Sactown
02-13-2013, 06:09 PM
So wait a minute you're going to compare a team who played an 82 game season to a team that played a 66 games.

In Jordan's time the average amount of rebounds per game for a team was 43.9 this season the league average is 42.2. Not a monumental difference. Also there is very little correlation (http://wagesofwins.com/2012/12/14/rethinking-assists/) between pace and assists. So little that most statisticians really don't recognize there as being one. Because you play a higher pace doesn't automatically mean you're going to get more assists. Same goes for pace and efficiency (http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7225) (read comment #30).

Hell even if you adjust Jordan's and Bron's numbers for pace/mpg Jordan still comes out more impressive.

So try again.



Even when you take pace and mpg into consideration Jordan was better than Wilt and Oscar in almost every facet.

You're right, I forgot about the lockout. I ****ed that up :facepalm: :laugh2:

OceanSpray
02-13-2013, 07:25 PM
There is no point in comparing these two because they played in completely different eras. You can't argue that LeBron's streak is garbage when Jordan couldn't do it. Same with Jordan's streak, LeBron has yet to do it. Appreciate LeBron while you can... When he's gone, we're going to look back and tell your grandchildren the amazing things he did. Just like with Jordan.

Greet
02-13-2013, 07:56 PM
Lebron during his stretch: 5-0
Jordan during his stretch: 5-6

Chronz
02-13-2013, 09:12 PM
Was wondering about this, given how many of those games he just got there.
Yup, I guess players go through stretches where they just feel unstopable and want to accomplish certain goals just to see if they could. Nothing wrong with it so long as it doesn't come into the playoffs. Phil Jackson has spoken on both Kobe and MJ dropping the BS when it came time to win.


How?
Just kept a mental log of how many assists he had and berated scorekeepers who didn't agree with him. I know its not a big deal, just stating something not too many people remember with regards to MJ.

IIRC, Tex Winter was on vacation during this stretch and whenever he was gone, Phil would allow MJ to search for his offense outside of the triangle.

netsgiantsyanks
02-13-2013, 09:19 PM
you people must really loathe lebron.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-13-2013, 09:39 PM
jordans 1988-89 season might be the best statistical season for anyone

Nope! Haven't you heard? Lebron >>>Jordan

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-13-2013, 09:40 PM
Lebron during his stretch: 5-0
Jordan during his stretch: 5-6

Yup..

Lebron>>>Jordan

ATX
02-13-2013, 09:47 PM
Find me one quote of anyone here stating LeBron is better than Jordan. Everything I've read simply reiterates that MJ is the GOAT, and that LBJ is the only player capable of even coming remotely close to challenging MJ, though we ALL know we need to see his ridiculous success on the court sustained for a much larger time frame.

97NYer
02-13-2013, 09:50 PM
While this is a decent point, 6'11 is probably the average height of a center now. The tallest good centers in the league are probably Marc Gasol and Tyson Chandler at 7'1, Hibbert at 7'2 though he isn't really anything special. Guys like Monroe, Jefferson, Dwight, Horford are all 6'10-6'11.

Ill21
02-13-2013, 10:26 PM
MJ was obviously amazing.

LeBron may or may not compare.

Either way, I'm gonna ENJOY LeBron while I can...and worry about stupid **** later.

Couldn't agree more

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-13-2013, 11:34 PM
Find me one quote of anyone here stating LeBron is better than Jordan. Everything I've read simply reiterates that MJ is the GOAT, and that LBJ is the only player capable of even coming remotely close to challenging MJ, though we ALL know we need to see his ridiculous success on the court sustained for a much larger time frame.

Go check the lebron at 28 thread. I agree with you heat fans now Lebron>>> jordan

Raps08-09 Champ
02-13-2013, 11:39 PM
Damn. When was the last time someone had a streak of 7 TD in a row?

ATX
02-13-2013, 11:45 PM
People debating that LeBron at 28 could be better is way different than someone stating he is a lock to be better than MJ all time, which is clearly what my post was alluding to.

TheSportsWonk
02-13-2013, 11:47 PM
Bottom line, MJ is the man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXCfKXe9Vto&list=UUBRv_Mjy2Ad4KcmCCTTagOQ

Tymathee
02-15-2013, 02:38 PM
Who said i was trying to dump on lbj's streak? It was just a story i found and cuz i'm only 31, i never saw early MJ play and didn't see that streak so when I heard about it on the radio I went to look for it, found that story, thought it was interested and posted it.

Then again...Oscar Robertson was better...a season triple double, nuff said, let's see lbj do that.

OceanSpray
02-15-2013, 03:17 PM
Who said i was trying to dump on lbj's streak? It was just a story i found and cuz i'm only 31, i never saw early MJ play and didn't see that streak so when I heard about it on the radio I went to look for it, found that story, thought it was interested and posted it.

Then again...Oscar Robertson was better...a season triple double, nuff said, let's see lbj do that.

But then again... Who did Oscar Robertson play against?

Chronz
02-15-2013, 04:09 PM
Big O played against the best of his time, same as everyone else. The bigger story is the pace of play.

DITKA4GOV
02-15-2013, 06:53 PM
The two streaks don't compare. IF you have to bring MPG and PACE into the argument, thatís a joke. People want to bring up separate era's (pace/mpg) when itís convenient for their argument. MJ's streak was more impressive, yet LBJ's shooting during his stretch has been flat out pretty. Both are great, enjoy LBJ before you can't anymore. I will.

Bulls were losing some of those games due to the sheer fact that they were still finding themselves, and were also losing to superior "teams." MJ's season that year may be one of the most impressive statistical seasons in the history of the NBA. I also believe that stretch of 40+ ppg while shooting 60% above was amazing as well. You have to keep in mind that teams were game planning to stop MJ and ONLY MJ. Teams approach the HEAT as trying to stop 3 future HOF's, which gives LBJ some easy looks. Not to take away from LBJ, but if you want to bring up pace & MPG, then looking at how defenses approached LBJ & MJ at the time is feasible, right?


I think both steaks are to be remembered. These LBJ VS MJ discussion are a joke. It should be LBJ vs KOBE. LBJ needs a lot more then this streak to touch MJ's legacy. 1 ring is a decent start (would have been better in CLE), but MJ changed the game. GOAT