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View Full Version : Why did the NBA go soft?



NYC
02-10-2013, 05:21 PM
It's amazing how the game has changed in the past twenty years. The old Knick, Piston teams used to beat up on Jordan like crazy and he still got his.

Nowadays, a touch on LeBron, a touch on Kobe, a touch on many players is a foul. It's honestly a shame the game has went down this road and Stern has cracked down. I don't know the reasoning behind it.

It was a lot more compelling when you could be completely physical with another team. Too many times I see guys go down on the block and they get a little bump, that's a foul. A guy goes strong to the hole and gets a little wrist tap and that's a foul.

Coming off screens, little bumps, HAND CHECKS, wow, don't even get me started there. A hand check shouldn't be a foul.

There was an entire mental aspect that came along with the physical play and getting guys off their games that just isn't allowed anymore and the sport suffers because of it. I'd love to see a game where guys just get knocked on their *** and it's not a foul - that's how it was 20 years ago.

For that reason alone, I don't think that LeBron or Kobe could hold MJ's jockstrap. These guys never grew up in that era and I don't think a lot of the prima donnas in the NBA today would be able to take it. Merely go back and look at Jordan's resume, what he was able to accomplish under those circumstances and it was just so much more impressive than what LeBron is doing today under a baby league.

JNoel
02-10-2013, 05:26 PM
Protect the stars. This is a business, and the league must take extraordinary steps to ensure protecting them; money talks in the end. Theres too high of a risk of them getting injured which would most likely happen.

Alayla
02-10-2013, 05:29 PM
It's amazing how the game has changed in the past twenty years. The old Knick, Piston teams used to beat up on Jordan like crazy and he still got his.

Nowadays, a touch on LeBron, a touch on Kobe, a touch on many players is a foul. It's honestly a shame the game has went down this road and Stern has cracked down. I don't know the reasoning behind it.

It was a lot more compelling when you could be completely physical with another team. Too many times I see guys go down on the block and they get a little bump, that's a foul. A guy goes strong to the hole and gets a little wrist tap and that's a foul.

Coming off screens, little bumps, HAND CHECKS, wow, don't even get me started there. A hand check shouldn't be a foul.

There was an entire mental aspect that came along with the physical play and getting guys off their games that just isn't allowed anymore and the sport suffers because of it. I'd love to see a game where guys just get knocked on their *** and it's not a foul - that's how it was 20 years ago.

For that reason alone, I don't think that LeBron or Kobe could hold MJ's jockstrap. These guys never grew up in that era and I don't think a lot of the prima donnas in the NBA today would be able to take it. Merely go back and look at Jordan's resume, what he was able to accomplish under those circumstances and it was just so much more impressive than what LeBron is doing today under a baby league.

Lebron would have handled that Era fine hes a freight train in fact i think more physicality would favor James

ManRam
02-10-2013, 05:29 PM
If FTA is your argument, well, there's no much of one.

MJ: 8.2 a game
West: 9.4 a game
Oscar: 8.8 a game

LeBron: 8.7 a game
Kobe: 7.6 a game


The rule changes have changed the game, but it's not as huge of a change as most hype it up to be. And sure, these players would have to make slight adjustments if they went back and played in the 80s and 90s, but those guys in those eras would have to make just as many adjustments to today's game. Tougher defense then than now? Sure. Trying going against the better athletes...

Kobe was skilled enough and is durable enough to thrive just as well in any era. LeBron is a ROCK that again would have been fine in any era, perhaps even better. He's supremely athletic, unlike anything we saw in those eras. And let's not act like he isn't a tremendously skilled player.

Sixerlover
02-10-2013, 05:34 PM
It's amazing how the game has changed in the past twenty years. The old Knick, Piston teams used to beat up on Jordan like crazy and he still got his.

Nowadays, a touch on LeBron, a touch on Kobe, a touch on many players is a foul. It's honestly a shame the game has went down this road and Stern has cracked down. I don't know the reasoning behind it.

It was a lot more compelling when you could be completely physical with another team. Too many times I see guys go down on the block and they get a little bump, that's a foul. A guy goes strong to the hole and gets a little wrist tap and that's a foul.

Coming off screens, little bumps, HAND CHECKS, wow, don't even get me started there. A hand check shouldn't be a foul.

There was an entire mental aspect that came along with the physical play and getting guys off their games that just isn't allowed anymore and the sport suffers because of it. I'd love to see a game where guys just get knocked on their *** and it's not a foul - that's how it was 20 years ago.

For that reason alone, I don't think that LeBron or Kobe could hold MJ's jockstrap. These guys never grew up in that era and I don't think a lot of the prima donnas in the NBA today would be able to take it. Merely go back and look at Jordan's resume, what he was able to accomplish under those circumstances and it was just so much more impressive than what LeBron is doing today under a baby league.
Short Answer: The NBA realized fans prefer less contact and more speed in games. A grind em out, hard fought 72-70 game isn't as entertaining to the causal fan as a fast paced 105-103 game.

Also I disagree with the LeBron and Kobe v Jordan argument because imagine if Lebron came up in the era of physical play. Him being a one in a generation physical talent would probably allow him to the be the greatest man on man defender ever, and an absolute load to try and guard on the other side of the ball.

smith&wesson
02-10-2013, 05:46 PM
MJ changed the game to how it is today.. Didn't stern change the rules for him or something ?

dalton749
02-10-2013, 05:48 PM
Short Answer: The NBA realized fans prefer less contact and more speed in games. A grind em out, hard fought 72-70 game isn't as entertaining to the causal fan as a fast paced 105-103 game.

Also I disagree with the LeBron and Kobe v Jordan argument because imagine if Lebron came up in the era of physical play. Him being a one in a generation physical talent would probably allow him to the be the greatest man on man defender ever, and an absolute load to try and guard on the other side of the ball.

never thought of this before but yeah lebron would have been scary back then.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-10-2013, 06:02 PM
It's amazing how the game has changed in the past twenty years. The old Knick, Piston teams used to beat up on Jordan like crazy and he still got his.

Nowadays, a touch on LeBron, a touch on Kobe, a touch on many players is a foul. It's honestly a shame the game has went down this road and Stern has cracked down. I don't know the reasoning behind it.

It was a lot more compelling when you could be completely physical with another team. Too many times I see guys go down on the block and they get a little bump, that's a foul. A guy goes strong to the hole and gets a little wrist tap and that's a foul.

Coming off screens, little bumps, HAND CHECKS, wow, don't even get me started there. A hand check shouldn't be a foul.

There was an entire mental aspect that came along with the physical play and getting guys off their games that just isn't allowed anymore and the sport suffers because of it. I'd love to see a game where guys just get knocked on their *** and it's not a foul - that's how it was 20 years ago.

For that reason alone, I don't think that LeBron or Kobe could hold MJ's jockstrap. These guys never grew up in that era and I don't think a lot of the prima donnas in the NBA today would be able to take it. Merely go back and look at Jordan's resume, what he was able to accomplish under those circumstances and it was just so much more impressive than what LeBron is doing today under a baby league.

Stern is doing what is best to expand the Nba as a business. He turned this into an offensive league. He is trying to make the game appealing to the casual fan. I expect Player to average 40 ppg by year 2033. Defense is a thing of the past.

Furymaker
02-10-2013, 06:08 PM
i'd take that era back in a heartbeat , I love defense , thats probably I love this Bulls team soo much , I'd love seeing Artest going all out on Lebron , or Battier going at Wade ( current game playing )
What about Iggy defending KD or Melo ? Shampert or Bradley doing hand checks on Westbrook , Dwight making hard fouls on everyone who tries to get in the lane . All these bad teams wouldnt be that bad if they could play that type of defense

JasonJohnHorn
02-10-2013, 06:27 PM
It seems clear that over the years, athletic wing players are adopted by the fans. Dr. J, Jordan, Kobe, KcGrady, Carter, now LBJ and Wade and Durant. Fans just seem to like these guys more, and Stern has changed the rules so that these players have an easier time to succeed, and has made it harder for guys in the paint to be as effective. Rules like taking away hand-checking help to open up the floor, while making the 3-seconds with your back to the basket rule limits post play, and making more restrictive rules for charging and such make it harder for bigs to get position in the paint to defend, and there are more fouls called on big guys than there used to be. Like Kareem and Moses were elite defenders and shot blockers back in the day and never got into foul trouble, but these days it's hard for a guy to average 3 blocks per game without averaging 6 fouls to go with it.


Yeah... the rules have changed to allow altheltic wing players to succeed. Stern thinks it's good for the league. I miss the classic post play.

bucketss
02-10-2013, 06:39 PM
umm no jordan use to get babied later on in his career

bucketss
02-10-2013, 06:43 PM
Stern is doing what is best to expand the Nba as a business. He turned this into an offensive league. He is trying to make the game appealing to the casual fan. I expect Player to average 40 ppg by year 2033. Defense is a thing of the past.

so basically go back to the 60's.

ManRam
02-10-2013, 06:51 PM
Stern is doing what is best to expand the Nba as a business. He turned this into an offensive league. He is trying to make the game appealing to the casual fan. I expect Player to average 40 ppg by year 2033. Defense is a thing of the past.


I think you'd be pretty surprised to see how league offensive efficiencies have not increased really at all over the past 20-30 years...if anything they've gone down.

League pace has remained steady for a few decades now, and is way lower than it was in the 70s.


I don't think you're actually right about what you're saying...even though there have been a few rules changes to allow some more offensive freedom. I just think those changes aren't as drastic or impacting as you feel.

BIG worm
02-10-2013, 06:52 PM
i miss good ol' post up, crazy aggressive defensive 80's and 90's nba. but the masses like scoring and pretty plays.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-10-2013, 08:19 PM
I think you'd be pretty surprised to see how league offensive efficiencies have not increased really at all over the past 20-30 years...if anything they've gone down.

League pace has remained steady for a few decades now, and is way lower than it was in the 70s.


I don't think you're actually right about what you're saying...even though there have been a few rules changes to allow some more offensive freedom. I just think those changes aren't as drastic or impacting as you feel.

The rules have changed so much, and they will continue to change in favor of offensive players. What they called hard fouls back then are flagrant fouls today. I'd say in 20 or 30 years Touching offenisive players with hards/arms will not be allowed

bucketss
02-10-2013, 08:27 PM
The rules have changed so much, and they will continue to change in favor of offensive players. What they called hard fouls back then are flagrant fouls today. I'd say in 20 or 30 years Touching offenisive players with hards/arms will not be allowed

that makes no sense there would be a call every second like football

TyrionLannister
02-10-2013, 08:28 PM
Because more physical play can lead to more fighting and the NBA is terrified of another Kermit Washington punch or Artest melee happening.

I don't agree with it, I think there is little to no chance scenarios like that happen again, but that's what it is.

bucketss
02-10-2013, 08:30 PM
Because more physical play can lead to more fighting and the NBA is terrified of another Kermit Washington punch or Artest melee happening.

I don't agree with it, I think there is little to no chance scenarios like that happen again, but that's what it is.

i think its to also prevent injuries even in this so called soft era a lot of stars are suffering some serious career threatening injuries.

ManRam
02-10-2013, 08:34 PM
The rules have changed so much, and they will continue to change in favor of offensive players. What they called hard fouls back then are flagrant fouls today. I'd say in 20 or 30 years Touching offenisive players with hards/arms will not be allowed

I think you're crazy.

Explain to me why scoring as a whole hasn't increased really at all over the past 15-20 year?

kubernetes
02-10-2013, 08:58 PM
Fans like scoring.

Also, "the way it was" encourages teams to employ enforcer-types and that leads to more aggression and fights, etc. Even if it doesn't, fans don't like that type of play. They'd rather see crazy acrobatic scoring than wrestling moves in the lane.

Blitzbolt
02-10-2013, 09:09 PM
I blame the fans for allowing it the fans got soft first so the NBA got soft.

KnicksorBust
02-10-2013, 09:20 PM
It's been about 15-20 years. Get over it. Refs still allow some contact just not hand-checking. There is not a dramatic increase in FT shooting. What's the problem?

OA SLAY
02-10-2013, 09:32 PM
The world got soft

BlinkManJan02
02-10-2013, 09:34 PM
money makes the world go round.