PDA

View Full Version : Which talent pool was greater, presently or Jordan's era?



OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 03:01 PM
By this, I don't mean the top 10 or 20 best, I mean how many of the entire league can actually play? The talent pool in today's league is far bigger than that of Jordan's era.

It's evident by the fact that in the Olympics, you actually played against NBA players, not random scrubs who never played the competitiveness that NBA players play through.

b@llhog24
02-09-2013, 03:04 PM
The 80's.

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-09-2013, 03:08 PM
hmm. Depends on which years youre talking about when you say Jordan era.
when the bulls went 72-10, it was watered DOWN.

in the midst of the 1st 3 peat, it was damn good competition, and very very tough defenses.
----------------

as for the modern era, the league's talent was bleh from 2000-2007 picked up since, and now we just might be entering into another golden era of basketball with durant-lebron and possibly young talents all over..

so hopefully the talent will be as good as it was in the mid to late 90s.

JasonJohnHorn
02-09-2013, 03:09 PM
You have centers coming off the bench back then who could potentially make an All-Star game these days. I would easily go with the 90's era over today. So many great centers and power forwards. I think the PG position is deeper now than it was, and that wing players are deeper than they were then, but still, overall talent goes to the 90's in my book.

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 03:10 PM
Can you guys name the 10 best players from 91-96.

Bruno
02-09-2013, 03:10 PM
presently.

and the early 2000's was the best defensive era in league history.

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 03:12 PM
You have centers coming off the bench back then who could potentially make an All-Star game these days. I would easily go with the 90's era over today. So many great centers and power forwards. I think the PG position is deeper now than it was, and that wing players are deeper than they were then, but still, overall talent goes to the 90's in my book.

The league made centers an irrelevant position to play. Players can't play in the paint 24/7 and thus that was why centers were actually dominant back then. The league really changed the way a center can play. I don't care what anyone says, the only reason centers dominated back then was because they were the most important position. They had the opportunity to stay in the paint and thus easier rebounding and scoring.

DreamShaker
02-09-2013, 03:13 PM
It's different. There were so many great, low-post, big guys in Jordan's era. Now the big guys shoot 3's and play more pick and roll. It is far more filled with super-athletic point guards. Overall, I like the 90's talent, but today's guys are nothing to sneeze at.

ManRam
02-09-2013, 03:14 PM
I'd imagine it's better now. I mean, at the very least there are more players playing basketball now than there was then, so the odds are there's more talent overall.

The disparity in talent in terms of big men makes it interesting though. I think it's harder to be a successful big man in today's faster NBA than it was back then, so that plays into it.

If I had to guess I'd definitely say there's more talent now. I'd imagine teams as a whole have more talent from 1-13 than ever before. But you can't really quantify that easily, so it is just a guess.

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 03:17 PM
You can actually quantify that easily, just look at the Olympics.

(Back in 1992, there were fewer than 20 international players in the NBA, and the cream of the crop were players like Detlef Schrempf and Tony Kukoc. Those players were good, but they are nowhere near the level of international talent that exists in the NBA today.

Today there are over 60 international players in the NBA, and a majority of them are legitimate superstars.

Players like Tony Parker, Nene Hilario, Luol Deng, Manu Ginobili, Dirk Nowitzki, Luis Scola, Jose Calderon, Marc Gasol, Andrew Bogut, Al Horford, Serge Ibaka and Pau Gasol headline the international talent today—and those players are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to star-level international talent.)


It's not a coincidence. It's the fact that competition is much heavier today than before. Seriously, Dirk Nowitzki is an international player... Who in the NBA back then was a legitimate player that people actually noticed?

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 03:20 PM
You have centers coming off the bench back then who could potentially make an All-Star game these days. I would easily go with the 90's era over today. So many great centers and power forwards. I think the PG position is deeper now than it was, and that wing players are deeper than they were then, but still, overall talent goes to the 90's in my book.i agree with everything here except about PGs. i think the 90s was stacked with really good PGs

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 03:23 PM
You can actually quantify that easily, just look at the Olympics.

(Back in 1992, there were fewer than 20 international players in the NBA, and the cream of the crop were players like Detlef Schrempf and Tony Kukoc. Those players were good, but they are nowhere near the level of international talent that exists in the NBA today.

Today there are over 60 international players in the NBA, and a majority of them are legitimate superstars.

Players like Tony Parker, Nene Hilario, Luol Deng, Manu Ginobili, Dirk Nowitzki, Luis Scola, Jose Calderon, Marc Gasol, Andrew Bogut, Al Horford, Serge Ibaka and Pau Gasol headline the international talent today—and those players are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to star-level international talent.)


It's not a coincidence. It's the fact that competition is much heavier today than before. Seriously, Dirk Nowitzki is an international player... Who in the NBA back then was a legitimate player that people actually noticed?i don't think it prooves anything that more guys play in the olympics now. that doesn't have anything to do with the NBA & how tough it was

Tmath
02-09-2013, 03:23 PM
You guys are living in the past man (hippy voice)

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 03:25 PM
The league made centers an irrelevant position to play. Players can't play in the paint 24/7 and thus that was why centers were actually dominant back then. The league really changed the way a center can play. I don't care what anyone says, the only reason centers dominated back then was because they were the most important position. They had the opportunity to stay in the paint and thus easier rebounding and scoring.there was a 3 seconds rule then too ya know, they couldn't just set up camp in the paint to score

SoFreshNsoClean
02-09-2013, 03:37 PM
Omg guyz nuthing compar3z 2 jord3nz era he is godlik3 lik3 it jus dnt comapr3

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 03:39 PM
i don't think it prooves anything that more guys play in the olympics now. that doesn't have anything to do with the NBA & how tough it was

What? How doesn't it prove anything? Players in general are better today than the past. How doesn't it have anything to do with the NBA? In the Olympics, they actually have to play against NBA players; not random players. This explains why the Dream Team dominated every game. It wasn't even close.

b@llhog24
02-09-2013, 03:44 PM
Aside from Bron, Durant and Cp3. Who's comparable to the likes of Magic, Bird, MJ, DRrob, Ewing, Barkley, Hakeem?

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 04:09 PM
Aside from Bron, Durant and Cp3. Who's comparable to the likes of Magic, Bird, MJ, DRrob, Ewing, Barkley, Hakeem?

Has a lot to do with the talent pool. Less talent, easier to play. More talent, harder to play.
Easier to play= better stats.
Harder to play= harder stats.

You didn't mention Kobe, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett.. You're handpicking for your argument.

dalton749
02-09-2013, 04:11 PM
theres more talent now and its not even close. and it will be the same another 20 years from now unless we've peaked and kids just start getting fat and caught up in technology.

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 04:15 PM
What? How doesn't it prove anything? Players in general are better today than the past. How doesn't it have anything to do with the NBA? In the Olympics, they actually have to play against NBA players; not random players. This explains why the Dream Team dominated every game. It wasn't even close.it's your opinion that players are better now, & the dream team played against alot more NBA players than you pretend they did. hater

we're talking about NBA players, era vs era, not how many were in the olympics

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 04:22 PM
theres more talent now and its not even close. and it will be the same another 20 years from now unless we've peaked and kids just start getting fat and caught up in technology.i don't think any champs of the past 13 years could beat the Bulls dynasty, Lakers, Celtics or Pistons or Jordan's era. Maybe just maybe someone could beat the Rockets, but doubtful there too

b@llhog24
02-09-2013, 04:22 PM
Has a lot to do with the talent pool. Less talent, easier to play. More talent, harder to play.
Easier to play= better stats.
Harder to play= harder stats.

You didn't mention Kobe, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett.. You're handpicking for your argument.

Who cares if Jose Calderon is better than Mookie Blaylock? At the top, the guys (you know the ones who are actually leading their teams to something) is higher. Also Kobe, Tim Duncan and Garnett aren't comparable RIGHT NOW (presently). If you're not specific with your time-frames don't get your panties in a bunch if someone else's interpretation is different.

kingkenny01
02-09-2013, 04:23 PM
the overall quality of the league is better now talent gets better with every generation, but the 90's elite players maybe better the current players. Guards are better now (its hard to find a team with a bad point guard) but big man were better then.

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 04:24 PM
Mookie whipes the floor with Calderon

b@llhog24
02-09-2013, 04:29 PM
Mookie whipes the floor with Calderon

Because if he was in the league currently, that would change the whole landscape of the Nba.

Money_23
02-09-2013, 04:32 PM
80s.

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 04:32 PM
lets not get carried away

TrueFan420
02-09-2013, 04:35 PM
You can actually quantify that easily, just look at the Olympics.

(Back in 1992, there were fewer than 20 international players in the NBA, and the cream of the crop were players like Detlef Schrempf and Tony Kukoc. Those players were good, but they are nowhere near the level of international talent that exists in the NBA today.

Today there are over 60 international players in the NBA, and a majority of them are legitimate superstars.

Players like Tony Parker, Nene Hilario, Luol Deng, Manu Ginobili, Dirk Nowitzki, Luis Scola, Jose Calderon, Marc Gasol, Andrew Bogut, Al Horford, Serge Ibaka and Pau Gasol headline the international talent today—and those players are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to star-level international talent.)


It's not a coincidence. It's the fact that competition is much heavier today than before. Seriously, Dirk Nowitzki is an international player... Who in the NBA back then was a legitimate player that people actually noticed?

Not that easy. You overlooking the fact that information is gathered and shared much easier now then back then. The world has gotten much smaller in a very short period. That and while bias is still a problem it's less so now than before. The use to look down on euro bball players as not as good for the most part they were not seen as franchise type players but rather role players. Now that's not the case.

b@llhog24
02-09-2013, 04:36 PM
lets not get carried away

Which is basically what I'm saying. It's relatively irrelevant to the landscape of the Nba. But supplanting MJ, Bird, Magic in this era or LeBron, KD, Cp3 in the 80's would change the landscape, teams titles chances.

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 04:41 PM
the best of the best were better in MJ's era, & the champions as well

macc
02-09-2013, 05:22 PM
I know we're not looking for top 20's, but just to throw out some notable names from the 90's can sometimes trigger some full teams.

Top pg's 90's

Penny Hardaway
Tim Hardaway
Gary Payton
Jason Kidd
Rod Strickland
John Stockton
Mark Price
Kevin Johnson

Sg's 90's

Michael Jordan
Clyde Drexler
Reggie Miller
Mitch Richmond
Allan Houston
Latrell Sprewell
Joe Dumars
Dan Majerle

SF's 90's

Scottie Pippen
Grant HIll
Chris Mullen
Glen Rice
Dominique Wilkins
James Worthy
Glen Robinson
Cedrick Ceballos
Detlef Schrempf

pf's 90's

Charles Barkley
Karl Malone
Horace Grant
Shawn Kemp
Larry Johnson
Dennis Rodman
Chris Webber
Derrick Coleman
Cliff Robinson

C's 90's

Patrick Ewing
David Robinson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
Alonzo Mourning
Dikembe Mutombo
Vlade Divac

Hellcrooner
02-09-2013, 05:34 PM
Define " jordans era".

If we are talking aboug his entire 1985-2002 stint, then yes Jordans era was tougher.

If we are talkign about jordans PRIME 90-98 then the thing is differente because the best players of the 80s were either retired or fading and the best of the late 90s were still coming up and developing.

so the current generation may be argued better as the jordans Prime was.

WARRIORS@GR
02-09-2013, 07:18 PM
You can actually quantify that easily, just look at the Olympics.

(Back in 1992, there were fewer than 20 international players in the NBA, and the cream of the crop were players like Detlef Schrempf and Tony Kukoc. Those players were good, but they are nowhere near the level of international talent that exists in the NBA today.

Today there are over 60 international players in the NBA, and a majority of them are legitimate superstars.

Players like Tony Parker, Nene Hilario, Luol Deng, Manu Ginobili, Dirk Nowitzki, Luis Scola, Jose Calderon, Marc Gasol, Andrew Bogut, Al Horford, Serge Ibaka and Pau Gasol headline the international talent today—and those players are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to star-level international talent.)


It's not a coincidence. It's the fact that competition is much heavier today than before. Seriously, Dirk Nowitzki is an international player... Who in the NBA back then was a legitimate player that people actually noticed?
i can name you at least 10 of these international players back then(which you called scrubs) who would be franchise players in today's nba.what you are saying is irrelevant.

tredigs
02-09-2013, 08:19 PM
Let's use 1993/94 as a good middle ground for "Jordan's era" (right before his 2nd 3 peat), so we'll leave out Bird/Magic/Kareem, McHale, Zeke etc in this scenario - who Jordan did have to battle with in the mid 80's. Outside of Lebron, KD and Chris Paul, I would say that at that time: Jordan, Malone, Shaq, Barkley, Olajuwon, D. Robinson, Scottie Pippen, Patrick Ewing, John Stockton, and Alonzo Mourning are all better than the current version of every other player in the NBA (some of those obviously being better than some or all of CP3/KD/LBJ as well).

And it's not as if that was all the talent: Kemp was like Blake Griffin at the time, Dominique just like Carmelo, you also had prime Reggie Miller, Rodman, Drexler, Tim Hardaway, Chris Mullen etc. Those guys were all as potent as the 2nd/3rd tier superstars we have right now. Soon after you had Payton, J. Kidd, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, etc along with most of these guys. The league was STACKED, and teams weren't shallow. For every Roy Hibbert or Deron Williams now you had a Rik Smits and Kevin Johnson or Mark Jackson then.

The league frankly, has sucked for the last 8 years. It doesn't sniff the talent of the early/mid 90's, but it's definitely getting better currently. I'm excited for the next decade in hoops.

So, yeah, not a favorable comparison for our current league to that one.

Guppyfighter
02-09-2013, 08:21 PM
If you are looking at the top 20 only than you are doing it wrong. The top 20 players from the past benefited from basketball not being as popular, and in turn, less talent to select from. Had a much easier time being the greatests.

Basketball, while still a relatively small talent pool has a much larger talent pool to select from than in the past. The gap in talent is not as large as it was in the past.

asandhu23
02-09-2013, 08:23 PM
You can actually quantify that easily, just look at the Olympics.

(Back in 1992, there were fewer than 20 international players in the NBA, and the cream of the crop were players like Detlef Schrempf and Tony Kukoc. Those players were good, but they are nowhere near the level of international talent that exists in the NBA today.

Today there are over 60 international players in the NBA, and a majority of them are legitimate superstars.

Players like Tony Parker, Nene Hilario, Luol Deng, Manu Ginobili, Dirk Nowitzki, Luis Scola, Jose Calderon, Marc Gasol, Andrew Bogut, Al Horford, Serge Ibaka and Pau Gasol headline the international talent today—and those players are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to star-level international talent.)


It's not a coincidence. It's the fact that competition is much heavier today than before. Seriously, Dirk Nowitzki is an international player... Who in the NBA back then was a legitimate player that people actually noticed?

are you calling Schrempf a schmuck? dude was amazing.

Rndy
02-09-2013, 08:26 PM
These threads are never fun! You can't compare different games because that is what this era is compared to the past.

tredigs
02-09-2013, 08:30 PM
If you are looking at the top 20 only than you are doing it wrong. The top 20 players from the past benefited from basketball not being as popular, and in turn, less talent to select from. Had a much easier time being the greatests.

Basketball, while still a relatively small talent pool has a much larger talent pool to select from than in the past. The gap in talent is not as large as it was in the past.

Take the top 75, and it was still significantly better then imo. Nothing else really matters as far as competing against the best teams is concerned, and the top 20 certainly do matter more than anything else; this isn't football, it's a sport where 1 great player has the ability to transform a franchise. But great role players existed then as well. Many of them, and still I never even mentioned names like Detleft Schrempf - 3rd best player on his team most of his career and was putting up 18/10/5 around the early 90's.

asandhu23
02-09-2013, 08:31 PM
Let's not forget Sarunas Marciulionis, Drazen Petrovic, Ronny Seikaly

beasted86
02-09-2013, 08:32 PM
Guys like Brad Daugherty and Rik Smits would completely own today's league... and these were lesser guys with a 0% chance at the Hall of Fame.

asandhu23
02-09-2013, 08:40 PM
How many of you remember Derrick Coleman? Yeah. He averaged 20-10s as well.

How about Terrell Brandon?

Mark Price?

Vin Baker?

Rndy
02-09-2013, 08:43 PM
Guys like Brad Daugherty and Rik Smits would completely own today's league... and these were lesser guys with a 0% chance at the Hall of Fame.

It's a much easier league offensively in this era. Drives me insane that the newer generation of fans don't understand it.

jericho
02-09-2013, 08:52 PM
What? How doesn't it prove anything? Players in general are better today than the past. How doesn't it have anything to do with the NBA? In the Olympics, they actually have to play against NBA players; not random players. This explains why the Dream Team dominated every game. It wasn't even close.

are we talking bout nba or international competition??? yes the international competition now is better but still the nba back then had a lil bit more talent than now wich is a shame with the athletic, basketball and technology improvements we have now back then they had heart and drive now some have the talent to be better but they just dont care

THE GIPPER
02-09-2013, 08:54 PM
presently.

and the early 2000's was the best defensive era in league history.

Best sig ever.

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 08:55 PM
Lol, I love how you guys seriously overrate some players. "The crappier players of back then would destroy the players of today." Based off what? Killer mentality? Is that seriously all you guys can come up with? And don't bring up defense, there are less points scored today than back then.

DallasTrilla23
02-09-2013, 09:57 PM
The 80's.

Yessir, you talk about stacked teams, the 80s were full of those.

Bird's Celtics, Showtime Lakers, Dr. J's 76ers, The Bad boy pistons, Moncrief's Bucks, Houston with Sampson and Hakeem, Dexler's Blazers, Jordan was coming up, and the list goes on and on.

SlimKid
02-09-2013, 10:33 PM
Well, you are the only one calling those players "crappy," so this really boils down to how you are defining players.. Logic and rationality are out the window with that sort of evaluation.

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 10:35 PM
Well, you are the only one calling those players "crappy," so this really boils down to how you are defining players.. Logic and rationality are out the window with that sort of evaluation.

Crappy players as in their impact on the game has been nothing but minimal. You would never find a player like Dirk Nowitzki against the NBA in the Olympics.

tredigs
02-09-2013, 10:38 PM
And you would never find a player like Hakeem Olajuwon in today's NBA. What is your fixation with the international pool? Until you go more than ~80 or so deep, that NBA was superior.

BigCityofDreams
02-09-2013, 11:05 PM
presently.

and the early 2000's was the best defensive era in league history.

Can you expand on that Bruno?

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 11:16 PM
It's a much easier league offensively in this era. Drives me insane that the newer generation of fans don't understand it.they're pretty dumb

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 11:18 PM
Crappy players as in their impact on the game has been nothing but minimal. You would never find a player like Dirk Nowitzki against the NBA in the Olympics.Sabonis was arguably as good as Dirk in his prime, & he was in the olympics vs the dream team. Drazen Petrovic was another awesome NBA player. ah who cares you'll never get it

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 11:22 PM
Sabonis was arguably as good as Dirk in his prime, & he was in the olympics vs the dream team. Drazen Petrovic was another awesome NBA player. ah who cares you'll never get it

http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/85/2f/852f636e238299b47d68eb22f31fd776.png

Did you just say this guy was as good as Dirk in his prime? Are you nuts? He was in the Olympics vs Dream team because he was the best international talent the NBA had at that time. Petrovik yes, he was starting to be a great player. Very unfortunate he passed away. But he is not in the same league as Dirk. No one in that era of international players was as good as Dirk.

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 11:24 PM
they're pretty dumb

2012 NBA team stats--- http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html

1993 NBA team stats--- http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1993.html

Can you explain to me why players scored more PPG in 1993 than in 2012? What's your excuse now?

Hawkeye15
02-09-2013, 11:27 PM
Well, the centers of the 80-90's take a dump on right now, and with the old rules allowing much more physicality, we really don't know. Sports where size, speed, and strength matter will always evolve, but its not like we are so far removed from the Jordan era (he is 10 years older than Nash for crying out loud), that its like comparing the current to 1960.

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 11:27 PM
Lol, I love how you guys seriously overrate some players. "The crappier players of back then would destroy the players of today." Based off what? Killer mentality? Is that seriously all you guys can come up with? And don't bring up defense, there are less points scored today than back then.you do the exact thing in reverse & it's equally dumb. just give both eras their due & be done with it

Hawkeye15
02-09-2013, 11:28 PM
http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/85/2f/852f636e238299b47d68eb22f31fd776.png

Did you just say this guy was as good as Dirk in his prime? Are you nuts? He was in the Olympics vs Dream team because he was the best international talent the NBA had at that time. Petrovik yes, he was starting to be a great player. Very unfortunate he passed away. But he is not in the same league as Dirk. No one in that era of international players was as good as Dirk.

do you realize Sabonis's prime was not in the NBA? Think before you type next time. He was the most skilled center to ever walk the planet.

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 11:30 PM
do you realize Sabonis's prime was not in the NBA? Think before you type next time. He was the most skilled center to ever walk the planet.

Do you realize that playing in a trash league doesn't compare to playing in the NBA? I don't care how good you are, Stephon Marbury would not post those stats in China in the NBA. For a user who has so many posts, I've never seen one more despicable.

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 11:31 PM
2012 NBA team stats--- http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html

1993 NBA team stats--- http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1993.html

Can you explain to me why players scored more PPG in 1993 than in 2012? What's your excuse now?they passed the ball better than (thus more ponts), less 1 on 1 BS, better fundementals. less 1 on 1 types could get 30 ppg back then because the tougher defense. players generally played better team basketball then, just watch some games, know it all

trying to go 1 on 1 was much tougher with the old rules

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 11:32 PM
they passed the ball better than, less 1 on 1 BS, better fundementals. less 1 on 1 types could get 30 ppg back then because the tougher defense. players generally played better team basketball then, just watch some games, know it all

Ohhhh, so can you tell me why defense allows fewer PPG now than before? Always an excuse within an excuse. Just stop it. If a player scores less, you say the league was tougher. If they score more, you say they had better fundamentals. There's just no way to argue with your logic.

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 11:34 PM
Do you realize that playing in a trash league doesn't compare to playing in the NBA? I don't care how good you are, Stephon Marbury would not post those stats in China in the NBA. For a user who has so many posts, I've never seen one more despicable.

but dude, how does Marbury put those numbers up in China if international ball is so crazy amazing good now days? tough guy

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 11:37 PM
but dude, how does Marbury put those numbers up in China if international ball is so crazy amazing good now days? tough guy

:facepalm: China never made it to the Olympics... Did you even watch it? Only a certain amount of teams can make it. Marbury put up those numbers in a Chinese league.. They can't play ball there... Please, no more posting for you.

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 11:38 PM
Ohhhh, so can you tell me why defense allows fewer PPG now than before? Always an excuse within an excuse. Just stop it. If a player scores less, you say the league was tougher. If they score more, you say they had better fundamentals. There's just no way to argue with your logic.i don't have to argue it, it's well known by anyone with half a brain that the 90s NBA had a lot tougher defense. funny you're in the minority barking like you know it all. we got a cowboy on our hands folks

Hawkeye15
02-09-2013, 11:42 PM
Do you realize that playing in a trash league doesn't compare to playing in the NBA? I don't care how good you are, Stephon Marbury would not post those stats in China in the NBA. For a user who has so many posts, I've never seen one more despicable.

Who are you?

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 11:43 PM
Who are you?Kobe Bryant

Hawkeye15
02-09-2013, 11:48 PM
i don't have to argue it, it's well known by anyone with half a brain that the 90s NBA had a lot tougher defense. funny you're in the minority barking like you know it all. we got a cowboy on our hands folks

tougher, not better. The defenses now are simply more evolved.

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 11:49 PM
i don't have to argue it, it's well known by anyone with half a brain that the 90s NBA had a lot tougher defense. funny you're in the minority barking like you know it all. we got a cowboy on our hands folks

You don't have to argue? Well, obviously you don't. It's easy to just end a discussion by just saying something was tougher without any proof.

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 11:50 PM
Who are you?

Does your penis get bigger since you have an earlier join date and more posts? Are you really 37? Damn... One would figure you'd have more important things to do at that stage of your life.

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 11:53 PM
You don't have to argue? Well, obviously you don't. It's easy to just end a discussion by just saying something was tougher without any proof.the proof is in the tapes, old games, & the fact that the vast majority of NBA experts & fans agree the old rules were much tougher. you can be mr rebel all you want, but you'll always be in the minority. ha freaking ha at that

now i'm done talkin to you weirdo contrarian boy

OceanSpray
02-09-2013, 11:57 PM
the proof is in the tapes, old games, & the fact that the vast majority of NBA experts & fans agree the old rules were much tougher. you can be mr rebel all you want, but you'll always be in the minority. ha freaking ha at that

now i'm done talkin to you weirdo contrarian boy

You're done talking to me because you can't handle the pressure of someone actually willing to debate. Now run along and ignore my posts.

hidalgo
02-09-2013, 11:59 PM
enjoy the minority, while i'm busy being right. later

OceanSpray
02-10-2013, 12:00 AM
enjoy the minority, while i'm busy being right. later

You said that two minutes ago. You're probably googling "Jordan's best games" and then thinking he does that every game.

tredigs
02-10-2013, 12:26 AM
Ohhhh, so can you tell me why defense allows fewer PPG now than before? Always an excuse within an excuse. Just stop it. If a player scores less, you say the league was tougher. If they score more, you say they had better fundamentals. There's just no way to argue with your logic.

Shortsided logic - without even contending the point one way or another - have you taken into consideration that it may just be that the offenses are worse? How about pace? Where is that at in comparison?

Hawkeye15
02-10-2013, 12:56 AM
Shortsided logic - without even contending the point one way or another - have you taken into consideration that it may just be that the offenses are worse? How about pace? Where is that at in comparison?

Why would he factor in anything when he has a clear agenda?

tdg823
02-10-2013, 12:58 AM
Talent is better today, but guys have no clue how to play the game.Blame it on not going to college, whatever,League is way bigger and more athletic down, actual skill and understanding is way down. Money and egos have tainted the league.

sciferguy
02-10-2013, 01:05 AM
Personally, I feel the one thing that is hurting the talent pool of today's NBA is the one and done rule. Although people were allowed to enter the NBA in the 90s from h.s. is was not like 90% of the draftees in the first round were h.s. or 1 year players. There have been some great h.s. and 1 year players but far more have been unsuccessful than successful.

Defense is not better now in anyway than the past either. If you try to pull stats please remember how soft foul calling is now compared to any other point in NBA history.

tdg823
02-10-2013, 01:06 AM
It's a much easier league offensively in this era. Drives me insane that the newer generation of fans don't understand it.


Did you guys catch this?

Amen

tdg823
02-10-2013, 01:10 AM
they scored more because the game is played at a much slower pace today. You can thank Pat Riley for that.

tdg823
02-10-2013, 01:11 AM
And Shaq and Barkley for that matter.

WARRIORS@GR
02-10-2013, 08:38 AM
http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/85/2f/852f636e238299b47d68eb22f31fd776.png

Did you just say this guy was as good as Dirk in his prime? Are you nuts? He was in the Olympics vs Dream team because he was the best international talent the NBA had at that time. Petrovik yes, he was starting to be a great player. Very unfortunate he passed away. But he is not in the same league as Dirk. No one in that era of international players was as good as Dirk.
omg..sabonis came up to the nba at age 31,how can you know what his prime was?not to mention his knees were already cracked..have you ever seen these guys play or you are just looking up stats and comparing?

bagwell368
02-10-2013, 09:48 AM
I think the average athlete today is better then in 1990.

But the great teams of the 80's - Celts, Lakers, 76'ers, Pistons were more powerful than the average Championship team since 90-91 ('85-'86 Celts or '86-'87 Lakers would have killed the '95-'96 Bulls), and the style of play in the '80's (combo of old style fast break, athletic supremacy, 3's just coming in) was easily better then anything since.

The salary cap, triangle offense, slow down due to coaches desire to control as much of the game as possible, the dependance on 3's, and the dependance on the few super stars has made watching the NBA since the Bulls first Championship a painful experience to me for the most part - with some great and notable exceptions such as the SAS teams, the '01-'02 Kings team, '07-'08 Celts, and a few others.

Becks2307
02-10-2013, 10:21 AM
Look at it this way

How many Pgs are better than - Stockton, Tim Hardaway, Payton, Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd, Penny Hardaway?

I got Cp3 better than some but then it gets iffy. I have a hard time putting Rose/Rondo higher than anyone else on this list. Even Tony Parker, is he really better than anyone here?

Hell Tim Hardaway gave you 23 10 4 in his prime. NO one does that now.


Furthermore, who outside of Lebron and KD is stopping Barkley today?

Malone would beast in the post.

Could K.Love/Dwight outrebound Rodman? idk?

I think Grant Hill would be the 2nd best SF in the league (beating out KD because of the all round game)

Ewing,Hakeem,David Robinson and all the other centers would be going crazy as well.

c.c.
02-10-2013, 11:07 AM
There's way more talent nowadays!!!

hidalgo
02-10-2013, 11:23 AM
it's really lame that they changed the rules so much, it makes eras hard to even compair, & gives offensive players today a huge edge. bring back the old rules & make these guys do it the right way

hidalgo
02-10-2013, 11:27 AM
Look at it this way

How many Pgs are better than - Stockton, Tim Hardaway, Payton, Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd, Penny Hardaway?

I got Cp3 better than some but then it gets iffy. I have a hard time putting Rose/Rondo higher than anyone else on this list. Even Tony Parker, is he really better than anyone here?

Hell Tim Hardaway gave you 23 10 4 in his prime. NO one does that now.


Furthermore, who outside of Lebron and KD is stopping Barkley today?

Malone would beast in the post.

Could K.Love/Dwight outrebound Rodman? idk?

I think Grant Hill would be the 2nd best SF in the league (beating out KD because of the all round game)

Ewing,Hakeem,David Robinson and all the other centers would be going crazy as well.don't forget Magic & Isiah Thomas. both easily better than any PGs today. especially Magic

koLohe2133
02-10-2013, 11:37 AM
Payton/stockton/Penny
Jordan/Miller/Drexler
Pippen/Barkley/Hill
Rodman/Malone/Kemp
Hakeem/Admiral/Ewing

Cp3/Rose/Westbrook
Kobe/Wade/Harden

Durant/Carmelo/Pierce
Lebron/Griffin/Garnett
Dwight/Chandler/Duncan

Vancity
02-11-2013, 04:07 AM
Personally, I feel the one thing that is hurting the talent pool of today's NBA is the one and done rule. Although people were allowed to enter the NBA in the 90s from h.s. is was not like 90% of the draftees in the first round were h.s. or 1 year players. There have been some great h.s. and 1 year players but far more have been unsuccessful than successful.

Defense is not better now in anyway than the past either. If you try to pull stats please remember how soft foul calling is now compared to any other point in NBA history.

I was immediately thinking this when I saw the title.

As soon as HS players were en vogue the league started being inundated with players who weren't rounded enough in skills and were raw. Few players came in and adjusted quickly.
Players who come in as rookies come in way to underdeveloped. The NBA runs them ragged because they dont have Lebron bodies and should be playing half the games/practices like in college.. Then by the time their contracts up they havent developed their skill or contributed much to their original team.

Jordan didn't win a ship' till his 8th season. He was older than Lebron.

Jordan. Avging 33-37pts

iFYouSeekAmy
02-11-2013, 04:44 AM
In this era, too many fouls are called. Players like Ron Artest had to adjust his defense because it was too aggressive for the league. Players nowadays would immediately get thrown out of games, fined, and suspended if they imitated what Bill Laimbeer or the Bad Boy Pistons did. In Jordan's era, handchecks and physical defense was common and the refs allowed them to play on.

However, in this era, players are more athletic. Not to mention, there's probably a more full on scouting report and statistical analytic breakdown on how players play in order to focus more on defensive schemes to exploit a player's weakness. I'm not so sure if coaches and management did that in Jordan's era, but there is more of that today.

JayW_1023
02-11-2013, 06:02 AM
No dominant centers in this era. Jordans era was much tougher. Zo. Hakeem. Shaq. Ewing. Robinson.

Guppyfighter
02-11-2013, 06:15 AM
It's a much easier league offensively in this era. Drives me insane that the newer generation of fans don't understand it. http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=25352473


Did you guys catch this?

Amen

Nah, defense is better than ever. Not more physical, but definitely more complex and hard to break down.

Guppyfighter
02-11-2013, 06:15 AM
No dominant centers in this era. Jordans era was much tougher. Zo. Hakeem. Shaq. Ewing. Robinson.

The drought in big men is made up by the fact this is the golden era of PG's and SF's.

Chronz
02-11-2013, 06:18 AM
http://speedcap.net/sharing/files/85/2f/852f636e238299b47d68eb22f31fd776.png

Did you just say this guy was as good as Dirk in his prime? Are you nuts? He was in the Olympics vs Dream team because he was the best international talent the NBA had at that time. Petrovik yes, he was starting to be a great player. Very unfortunate he passed away. But he is not in the same league as Dirk. No one in that era of international players was as good as Dirk.

NBA stats = PEAK, does not compute

Chronz
02-11-2013, 06:40 AM
The league is better but its degrading and not shaping out the way I'd hoped due to injuries and such.

asandhu23
02-11-2013, 06:54 AM
The drought in big men is made up by the fact this is the golden era of PG's and SF's.

hmm. there were a lot of good PGs and SF in 90s too.

Guppyfighter
02-11-2013, 06:57 AM
hmm. there were a lot of good PGs and SF in 90s too.

Better now.

asandhu23
02-11-2013, 07:02 AM
Better now.

Really?

Furymaker
02-11-2013, 08:27 AM
PG position is deeper now talent wise than before , obviously best PG's of today barely can compare to these from 80s-90s , best PG from back then beats today's best , but others from today beats the others from that era. Now you have good PG on almost every team
I mean , Tony Parker , Rondo , CP3 , Rose , Westbrook , Holiday , Curry , Wall , Lillard , Kyrie , D-Will , Jennings , Kemba , Knight , Chalmers , Hill , Collison , Lawson , Hill , Teague , Conley , Vasquez , Lin , Jack ... really deep now , but other than PG position and maybe SF , all other positions were better , take their best 100 players they easily beats todays top 100 players

AIRMAR72
02-11-2013, 08:56 AM
GOLDEN era

Chitownhero1992
02-11-2013, 10:35 AM
Talent wise...Jordan's era was better by far the number of Hall of Famers around in that era is so dominant compared to this one many of the all-stars in todays game aren't hall of fame worthy.

Also the late 80's and early 90's were so much more physical...there were NO LAYUPS...if you went in you might as well just stumble into the bleachers because you were being pushed there anyway. In todays game, you can sneeze in lebrons direction and its a foul and if his shot goes in its continuation....

koreancabbage
02-11-2013, 11:00 AM
obviously now.

the talent pool is being drawn from the world now. you have guys like Iverson, TMac playing overseas b/c of their attitude of not wanting a role/bench player.