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View Full Version : Boozer for barngani? teams had talks...



justinnum1
02-07-2013, 06:57 PM
stein
Just going online: ESPN sources say Bulls & Raptors have had exploratory talks on potential trade featuring Carlos Boozer & Andrea Bargnani

knicks=love
02-07-2013, 06:58 PM
Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
Just going online: ESPN sources say Bulls & Raptors have had exploratory talks on potential trade featuring Carlos Boozer & Andrea Bargnani


Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
ESPN link to Carlos Boozer/Andrea Bargnani exploratory trade discussions: http://es.pn/UGNCG0

wow

knicks=love
02-07-2013, 06:58 PM
i posted the link :silly:

justinnum1
02-07-2013, 07:00 PM
i posted the link :silly:

you get the assist ;)

ManRam
02-07-2013, 07:00 PM
They both kinda suck...

But Bargs sucks WAY more. Don't get it from Chicago's perspective. Maybe additional pieces.

justinnum1
02-07-2013, 07:01 PM
They both kinda suck...

But Bargs sucks WAY more. Don't get it from Chicago's perspective. Maybe additional pieces.

chicago owner being cheap imo

Gators123
02-07-2013, 07:03 PM
I don't get it for either team.

knicks=love
02-07-2013, 07:03 PM
I don't get it for either team.

this

Celticsfan2007
02-07-2013, 07:04 PM
I'm not sure Barfnani could play with that team defensively, let alone start. Bad idea for the Bulls IMO.

bucketss
02-07-2013, 07:04 PM
i hate bargnani but no THAT much

LTBaByyy
02-07-2013, 07:05 PM
Boozer has been amazing this year.

What are y'all talking about? He has had one bad year in his career (last season) and it wasn't even as bad as people think

beasted86
02-07-2013, 07:05 PM
I think Tom Thibbs would just quit if they made that trade.

Celticsfan2007
02-07-2013, 07:05 PM
I don't get it for either team.

It makes sense for the Raptors, who essentially just went "all in" with the rudy gay trade. The Raptors are officially in a "win now" mode since they have solid pieces at nearly every position.

The one thing the Raptors yet lack though is a low post presnence who can rebound. That's exactly what Boozer brings to the table.

LTBaByyy
02-07-2013, 07:06 PM
Raptors will be a 5-8 seed next season guaranteed

ManRam
02-07-2013, 07:06 PM
Yeah...Boozer certainly doesn't "suck". I got a bit carried away, but I still have never been too enamored with his decision making, defense or efficiency.

But Bargs is BAD. I don't get it for Chicago. Makes sense for Toronto though...unless they'd have to give up something valuable too...because Bargs is not valuable.

kozelkid
02-07-2013, 07:07 PM
They both kinda suck...

But Bargs sucks WAY more. Don't get it from Chicago's perspective. Maybe additional pieces.

Probably additional pieces, but it does make sense from a spacing standpoint.


chicago owner being cheap imo

This deal is not exemplary of such unless there is more involved. Too big of a deal to be merely getting under the tax.

Trading Rip and a pick would me more of an example of what you're describing.

KniCks4LiFe
02-07-2013, 07:07 PM
I think Tom Thibbs would just quit if they made that trade.

he should quit just for them talking this trade. If I'm Toronto offer DeRozan try to get Taj Gibson thrown in this deal.

abe_froman
02-07-2013, 07:08 PM
I don't get it for either team.

for raps its an upgrade at the pf spot,for the bulls it's a money move(i'm guessing).really the only way to make it fit logically

kozelkid
02-07-2013, 07:08 PM
If Thibodeau could make Boozer an adequate defender in his system, I see no reason why he can't do the same for Bargnani. At the very least, he could provide weak side defense.

Rivera
02-07-2013, 07:09 PM
Boozer sucks he's gonna disappear in the playoffs anyway

If baths can get back to the level he was playing at last year this would be a steal for the bulls. Behind spreads the floor even more for Derrick rose to penitents gives him another good three point shooter and Noah when healthy can protect bargs. Boozer is gonna disappear come play off time anyway he's a waste of space if in Chicago in jumping on this

IndyRealist
02-07-2013, 07:09 PM
I'm not sure Barfnani could play with that team defensively, let alone start. Bad idea for the Bulls IMO.

Well they already cover for Boozer defensively, so covering for Bargs wouldn't be much more of a stretch. The real question would they be able to get him to rebound? As to why the Bulls would do it, they could get still get some offensive production while cutting about $5M/yr in salary for the next 3 years. For the Raptors, they're all in at this point with Lowry, DeRozan, and Gay. The only way they're going to improve now is through the draft or through trades like this.

72 Wins
02-07-2013, 07:10 PM
he should quit just for them talking this trade. If I'm Toronto offer DeRozan try to get Taj Gibson thrown in this deal.

ROFL. They will never include Taj.

ACanadian
02-07-2013, 07:12 PM
I'll take it, Boozer and a second round for Bargs and Felds

LTBaByyy
02-07-2013, 07:12 PM
Lowry
Derozan
Gay
Boozer
Valancunias

Ross
Amir
Fields

Is a good team (In the East of course)

Ps Gay has been efficient and a prime time scorer ever since joining Raptors

kozelkid
02-07-2013, 07:12 PM
Another thing to consider... Bargs would be a nice transition without needing to adjust too much when Mirotic arrives.

KniCks4LiFe
02-07-2013, 07:12 PM
ROFL. They will never include Taj.

they shouldn't be calling for Bargs period.

DR_1
02-07-2013, 07:13 PM
This can't be true. We are not this stupid.

kozelkid
02-07-2013, 07:13 PM
Ps Gay has been efficient and a prime time scorer ever since joining Raptors

First of all, it's been three ****ing games. Second of all, not all that much.

ManRam
02-07-2013, 07:15 PM
Probably additional pieces, but it does make sense from a spacing standpoint.

It will only help spacing if Bargs can shoot better than 30% from three again. Teams aren't honoring his shot as much these days. I think it hurts the offense unless he suddenly gets better again. Theoretically the Bulls could benefit from a little offensive spacing...I just don't think Bargs is gonna change that all much.

KniCks4LiFe
02-07-2013, 07:17 PM
It will only help spacing if Bargs can shoot better than 30% from three again. Teams aren't honoring his shot as much these days. I think it hurts the offense unless he suddenly gets better again. Theoretically the Bulls could benefit from a little offensive spacing...I just don't think Bargs is gonna change that all much.

logical thinking out the window LMAO

kozelkid
02-07-2013, 07:17 PM
It will only help spacing if Bargs can shoot better than 30% from three again...

Why shouldn't he? His career 3pt% is 36 and he has never in his career played with a floor spacer like Rose.

Either way, the more I think about it, the more I see this as Toronto approaching Chicago and Chicago turning it down. People need to remember that these "talks" happen probably dozens of times a day and maybe a small fraction of them actually leak out.

Stunner
02-07-2013, 07:18 PM
I'll only do it if we get Ross back . boozer , Rip and Bobcats pick for Bargs , Ross and Keliza

Longhornfan1234
02-07-2013, 07:20 PM
Bulls owner is being cheap.

Keep3HEATSOnMe
02-07-2013, 07:22 PM
No ****ing way the bulls do this

ManRam
02-07-2013, 07:23 PM
Why shouldn't he? His career 3pt% is 36 and he has never in his career played with a floor spacer like Rose.

Either way, the more I think about it, the more I see this as Toronto approaching Chicago and Chicago turning it down. People need to remember that these "talks" happen probably dozens of times a day and maybe a small fraction of them actually leak out.

Because this year he's been awful. Sure, he's shown in the past he can do that...but if you've seen him this year, well, he's been terrible offensively. A liability and some.

I do think moving to Chicago could help his game out, and Rose is a big reason for it, but I don't think it would be moving mountains...and I'm not certain he'd outweigh what Boozer does for that team.

KniCks4LiFe
02-07-2013, 07:23 PM
I'll help Chicago out. You want a floor spacer, you want a 3pt shooter who you can deal for right? call Dallas about Vince Carter. Nice short contract, experience, vet shooter.

kozelkid
02-07-2013, 07:27 PM
Because this year he's been awful. Sure, he's shown in the past he can do that...but if you've seen him this year, well, he's been terrible offensively. A liability and some.

I do think moving to Chicago could help his game out, and Rose is a big reason for it, but I don't think it would be moving mountains...and I'm not certain he'd outweigh what Boozer does for that team.

Could be simply a case of a bad funk on an awful team. Again, I'm just giving the reasoning behind it. For what it's worth, I'm not a fan unless there's more involved, but I am intrigued.


I'll help Chicago out. You want a floor spacer, you want a 3pt shooter who you can deal for right? call Dallas about Vince Carter. Nice short contract, experience, vet shooter.

Thanks for your help, dawg. We HAVE wings that can space the floor. The idea is a BIG who can space the floor.

Jumba
02-07-2013, 07:28 PM
Taj can do what Boozer can do to a certain extent, and they could bring Bargs off the bench as a stretch 4 or 5.. But his contract suggests he should start.

DoMeFavors
02-07-2013, 07:34 PM
Toronto looking to stop the rebuilding and finally start winning, I respect it!

effen5
02-07-2013, 07:37 PM
Taj can do what Boozer can do to a certain extent, and they could bring Bargs off the bench as a stretch 4 or 5.. But his contract suggests he should start.

Umm noo taj can't.

Vancity
02-07-2013, 07:37 PM
Because this year he's been awful. Sure, he's shown in the past he can do that...but if you've seen him this year, well, he's been terrible offensively. A liability and some.

I do think moving to Chicago could help his game out, and Rose is a big reason for it, but I don't think it would be moving mountains...and I'm not certain he'd outweigh what Boozer does for that team.

He wouldn't but he would save the bulls money. I'd imagine another piece could be thrown in from the raps like anderson or fields. NOT ROSS. pffft. For those who undervalue Bargnani. 17.7 per/36 in an off year.
Spreads the floor and Chicago still has major rebounders in Noah, Gibson. Plus Bargs plays C/PF while Noahs out and Bulls start him and Gibson.


http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=byyqbaf

fin_frenzy_84
02-07-2013, 07:40 PM
I would hate that trade if its straight up... They could throw in Ross and I might do it.

I would also see if they would do

Boozer/Rip/Bobcats pick (Future lottery)

for

Demar/Barngani

gotoHcarolina52
02-07-2013, 07:45 PM
@KCJHoop

Told Bulls initiated. And unlikely. RT @ESPNSteinLine: Sources say Bulls, Raptors have had talks on trade featuring Boozer, Bargnani.

The Bulls initiated these talks? Wow.

Vancity
02-07-2013, 07:46 PM
Raps dont need Rip. Ross would net them Boozer, Teague by himself.
Both Bargs and Boozer are amnesty targets tho unlikely because the Raps will likely use theirs on Linas Kleiza.

I think this works. I don't like teams contending making drastic moves (Grizzlies)
However, the bulls are going to going through a bit of a break in period as is with Rose returning.
Perhaps they want that shooter in the pick n roll to protect rose from crashing the basket everytime.
I don't have the metrics but in pick n roll situations, how many times does Rose keep vs league average for a pg? I'd guess a lot more.

ManRam
02-07-2013, 07:46 PM
Could be simply a case of a bad funk on an awful team. Again, I'm just giving the reasoning behind it. For what it's worth, I'm not a fan unless there's more involved, but I am intrigued.


Could be a funk.

But he's been on that same bad team forever now, and hasn't looked this inept really before.

mdm692
02-07-2013, 07:47 PM
Terrence Ross going to Chi maybe??

Rego247
02-07-2013, 07:48 PM
I'll only do it if we get Ross back . boozer , Rip and Bobcats pick for Bargs , Ross and Keliza

That's not going to happen. Raps didn't give him up in the Gay deal, they sure as hell aren't gonna give him up for Boozer.

Stunner
02-07-2013, 07:50 PM
That's not going to happen. Raps didn't give him up in the Gay deal, they sure as hell aren't gonna give him up for Boozer.

That Bobcats 1st is very appealing that's why I added that .

OceanSpray
02-07-2013, 07:52 PM
Boozer isn't sucking tbh. Very good.

Stunner
02-07-2013, 07:53 PM
Bulls have the advantage in this situation since Gasol went down , Boozer is the only PF who is producing that Is on the market . Not to mention the Raptots really want to get Bargs out of there ......Ross could be pulled away .

BHF
02-07-2013, 08:06 PM
there is 0 chance you guys getting Ross zer0

BHF
02-07-2013, 08:09 PM
Bulls have the advantage in this situation since Gasol went down , Boozer is the only PF who is producing that Is on the market . Not to mention the Raptots really want to get Bargs out of there ......Ross could be pulled away .

Raptors dont have to trade Bargs they can always amnesty him there is no way they are giving up Ross in this trade :) the guy has more upside than Derozan he might be already better than Derozan

LanceUpperCut
02-07-2013, 08:13 PM
There's no way in hell you get Ross to. I know it's easy to kick a guy like Bargnani when he's down but he is underrated, as is Boozer.

Bargnani has been out since dec.10th and had about 10 pretty ****** games so far this season. I'll say Bargnani is horrible at help defence and probably the worst rebounder I've ever seen but his post D is actually pretty good and very underrated the guy can also move better than almost any big in the league. The guy can't create his own shot like pretty much every other 7FT in the league and should not be a 1st option like he has been since Bosh left but with Rose and Noah on the same line he could be a lot better then this forum would give him credit for.

chisox721
02-07-2013, 08:16 PM
there is 0 chance you guys getting Ross zer0
^Solid input

Charlotte is going to be bad for a long time, so that 1st round pick is a pretty valuable asset. Still don't know if it would be enough to get Ross in the deal but it's not completely out of the question.

Bargnani wouldn't even start on the Bulls and Noah/Gibson could somewhat mask his deficiencies on defense.

LanceUpperCut
02-07-2013, 08:16 PM
Bulls have the advantage in this situation since Gasol went down , Boozer is the only PF who is producing that Is on the market . Not to mention the Raptots really want to get Bargs out of there ......Ross could be pulled away .

Or the Raps hang on to him and wait till the off-season since his value can only go up from here. Yes they want to trade him but in no way are they desperate at all.

justinnum1
02-07-2013, 08:17 PM
why not 3 way

bargs to lakers, gasol to bulls, boozer to toronto? +fillers...

Tmath
02-07-2013, 08:18 PM
Ross was just selected to the dunk contest, only Raptor in the All-Star weekend. I highly doubt he is traded.

chisox721
02-07-2013, 08:20 PM
Ross was just selected to the dunk contest, only Raptor in the All-Star weekend. I highly doubt he is traded.
He's in the dunk contest? Damn, he MUST be untouchable.

BHF
02-07-2013, 08:21 PM
^Solid input

Charlotte is going to be bad for a long time, so that 1st round pick is a pretty valuable asset. Still don't know if it would be enough to get Ross in the deal but it's not completely out of the question.

Bargnani wouldn't even start on the Bulls and Noah/Gibson could somewhat mask his deficiencies on defense.

i was gonna say maybe and only maybe if you add the Charlotte pick Raps might do it but you beat me to it

BHF
02-07-2013, 08:23 PM
He's in the dunk contest? Damn, he MUST be untouchable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlvQWuqEC10&feature=youtu.be

Vancity
02-07-2013, 08:28 PM
He's in the dunk contest? Damn, he MUST be untouchable.

wise guy. his profile will be higher making him worth more. yes. The only way the raps trade ross if it was an unprotected bobcats 2014 pick 1st rounder

flclfanman
02-07-2013, 08:29 PM
Do we get their first next year or something, b/c Bargnani is AWFUL. The front office has to know that.

Sending a guy that even more infamous than Boozer for defensive lapses to a team that eat, drinks, and sleeps the stuff is a disaster waiting to happen.

I just hope this is the FO returning a Toronto courtesy call.

Sly Guy
02-07-2013, 08:31 PM
lol, ross is not going anywhere, chicago fans.

king4day
02-07-2013, 08:34 PM
I'd LOVE this for Toronto. I have a feeling they will need to throw in Johnson or something else. I can't see Chicago being OK with this trade as is.

chisox721
02-07-2013, 08:45 PM
Is James White untouchable too since hes in the dunk contest?

Maybe the Raptors have no interest in moving him, wouldn't surprise me at all, but the logic here is hilarious.

Tmath
02-07-2013, 08:56 PM
Is James White untouchable too since hes in the dunk contest?

Maybe the Raptors have no interest in moving him, wouldn't surprise me at all, but the logic here is hilarious.

He is a part of their future, I don't see the Raptors trading him. I don't even think this trade happens to be honest.

yoseppii12
02-07-2013, 08:59 PM
He is a part of their future, I don't see the Raptors trading him. I don't even think this trade happens to be honest.

Part of their future. Is that a future without DeRozan and Gay? I don't see where Ross fits unless he's a PG...I don't know much about TORs plans but I don't see much PT behind two stars?

TheNumber37
02-07-2013, 08:59 PM
why aren't they just trying to get him to the nets for brooks and blatche
the Sixers might want him to pair with Bynum.
Rockets also make some sense

koreancabbage
02-07-2013, 09:00 PM
Is James White untouchable too since hes in the dunk contest?

Maybe the Raptors have no interest in moving him, wouldn't surprise me at all, but the logic here is hilarious.

he's shown promise. i don't get the logic here (in previous posts) but if the Bulls are dumping salary, they aren't getting Ross. More like Bulls are giving up the Charlotte first to rid themselves of the contract is more reasonable to even sniff Ross.

remember, Bulls initiated the talks so that means they probably want to dump salaries in all likelihood.

koreancabbage
02-07-2013, 09:02 PM
Part of their future. Is that a future without DeRozan and Gay? I don't see where Ross fits unless he's a PG...I don't know much about TORs plans but I don't see much PT behind two stars?

well if they weren't trading him in the Gay deal, who is another wing btw, what makes you think they will trade him in this deal?

dalton749
02-07-2013, 09:05 PM
lol nothing else of value is going chicagos way for overpaid boozer

North Yorker
02-07-2013, 09:11 PM
lol nothing else of value is going chicagos way for overpaid boozer

This.

chisox721
02-07-2013, 09:13 PM
well if they weren't trading him in the Gay deal, who is another wing btw, what makes you think they will trade him in this deal?
Probably because they obviously got the Gay deal done without needing to include him

P.I.
02-07-2013, 09:13 PM
They both kinda suck...

But Bargs sucks WAY more. Don't get it from Chicago's perspective. Maybe additional pieces.

Dude Boozer has been Boozer, 15 and 9... I would take this for Bargs.

Chicago so good they don't need boozer, they don't need his rebounding help when they got Noah.

As for Bargs going to Chicago, I actually think this is better for him. Chicago is a "no joke" basketball city, and this team is pure hard work and defence. He will just be a role player, to spread the floor. I think going to Chicago and playing with guys like Noah and Rose who are dead serious about winning will be good for him. Tom Thibodeau as coach.... he better do as he is told. lol

mrblisterdundee
02-07-2013, 09:13 PM
I've always wanted Chicago to drop Carlos Boozer and give Taj Gibson a bigger role. Who knows, though; maybe Andrea Bargnani will fit nicely and spread the floor on a Bulls team that isn't known for its shooting ability. He could end up being the second highest scorer behind Derrick Rose.

yoseppii12
02-07-2013, 09:14 PM
This.

Agreed. Which is why I don't see it happening. Chicago won't trade him unless they get Barg and something of decent value back. Otherwise, I think they would just amnesty him after the season.

yoseppii12
02-07-2013, 09:14 PM
This.

Agreed. Which is why I don't see it happening. Chicago won't trade him unless they get Barg and something of decent value back. Otherwise, I think they would just amnesty him after the season.

LeperMessiah
02-07-2013, 09:17 PM
Make it happen!

P.I.
02-07-2013, 09:17 PM
Bargs and Landry Fields. Happy?

mrblisterdundee
02-07-2013, 09:19 PM
I'll only do it if we get Ross back . boozer , Rip and Bobcats pick for Bargs , Ross and Keliza

This seems logical. The Bulls are weakest at shooting guard, and Bargnani can spread the floor and be switched out with Gibson when the Bulls want more defense.

North Yorker
02-07-2013, 09:19 PM
Agreed. Which is why I don't see it happening. Chicago won't trade him unless they get Barg and something of decent value back. Otherwise, I think they would just amnesty him after the season.

Yea, both teams can amnesty Bargs/Boozer this offseason if all they want is cap relief.

The reason why I think Chicago is looking to move Boozer is because they are trying to do anything to move him because they will amnesty him this offseason anyways with the contract they just gave Taj. And just from rumblings it seems like the Bulls owner isnt too keen on paying a guy that much money not to play.

yoseppii12
02-07-2013, 09:22 PM
If Bulls would be stuck with Bargs through 2014 (assuming he doesn't exercise the ETO- which why the hell would he, no one elseis giving him 10+ million), then why would the Bulls do the deal when they could just send Booz packing with amnesty. Plus if Taj started over him, why would we pay someone 10+ a year to be on the bench? Idk, some people have said Chicago initiated the talks but I think they might be doing that because they think they can get value from TOR. I don't think they would do this "just to dump $5M off the books", IMO it doesn't make sense in the long-term.

chisox721
02-07-2013, 09:23 PM
Yea, both teams can amnesty Bargs/Boozer this offseason if all they want is cap relief.

The reason why I think Chicago is looking to move Boozer is because they are trying to do anything to move him because they will amnesty him this offseason anyways with the contract they just gave Taj. And just from rumblings it seems like the Bulls owner isnt too keen on paying a guy that much money not to play.
Everything I've read is that if they amnesty him it won't be until after the 2014 season, if that means anything.

yoseppii12
02-07-2013, 09:24 PM
Yea, both teams can amnesty Bargs/Boozer this offseason if all they want is cap relief.

The reason why I think Chicago is looking to move Boozer is because they are trying to do anything to move him because they will amnesty him this offseason anyways with the contract they just gave Taj. And just from rumblings it seems like the Bulls owner isnt too keen on paying a guy that much money not to play.

So you are saying the Bulls could amnesty Bargs if they traded for him?

Stunner
02-07-2013, 09:24 PM
Bulls, Raptors explore Boozer-Bargnani trade

DENVER -- The Bulls and Raptors engaged in trade talks centered on Carlos Boozer and Andrea Bargnani over a week ago, according to two league sources.

ESPN.com's Marc Stein first reported the talks, which a source told the Tribune were initiated by the Bulls and initially dismissed because of the Raptors' desire to land the Lakers' Pau Gasol. Though talks are not currently active, a source said the Raptors know the trade is available and could expand to include Nate Robinson and John Lucas III. Another source suggested it's unlikely the Raptors would take on Boozer's contract, which has $9.1 million more than Bargnani's over the next two seasons.

The Raptors recently added Rudy Gay's long-term contract via trade.

Boozer makes $5 million more than Bargnani this season. Coach Tom Thibodeau long has been an advocate of Lucas III, who is playing sparingly for the Raptors.

Despite the talks, there are no plans to use the amnesty provision on Boozer this summer. Boozer is having a strong season, but shedding his salary could improve the Bulls' long-term financial picture.

Stunner
02-07-2013, 09:26 PM
F that trade I wouldn't trade Nate for Lucas .....ever

FriedTofuz
02-07-2013, 09:27 PM
Bargnani + Landry Fields for boozer + hienrich

Raptors will have a very good bench
heinrich/ ross/ Anderson/Johnson/ gray

starters : lowry/derozan/gay/ boozer/valancuinas

Raptors better squeeze into 8th place, and Miami or new York should actually try not to face them.

North Yorker
02-07-2013, 09:28 PM
So you are saying the Bulls could amnesty Bargs if they traded for him?

No, the amnesty doesnt work that way. I think the owner would rather pay Bargs $10M/yr to play instead of paying Boozer not to play by amnestying him.

Why else would Chicago initiate these talks? Boozer is playing well, and if they want long term flexibility that's what the amnesty is for. Thats the way Im viewing this deal.

FriedTofuz
02-07-2013, 09:28 PM
bell and rogers, the owners of the raptors, will have no problem paying luxury tax. they'll be winning games. I think this team would sure be better than the nets and hawks. just behind the pacers .

yoseppii12
02-07-2013, 09:29 PM
F that trade I wouldn't trade Nate for Lucas .....ever

Yeah this trade doesn't make much sense to me. We would be handcuffed with another 10+M contract in 2014. So we'd have to let Deng walk in order to get anyone? Idk, doesn't make much sense to me.

Stunner
02-07-2013, 09:31 PM
Like I said I don't want Bargs unless Ross is coming , ill gladly give the Raps this years 1st and Bobcats pick for him .

Wade n Fade
02-07-2013, 09:33 PM
Well, I hope Toronto gets the better deal. Hopefully, the Bulls are stupid enough to make a trade for Garbagani. Anything to get rid of Garbagani.

Uncbball234
02-07-2013, 09:34 PM
Like I said I don't want Bargs unless Ross is coming , ill gladly give the Raps this years 1st and Bobcats pick for him .

This if I'm the Bulls I need Ross in the deal!

kenzo400
02-07-2013, 09:41 PM
I'll only do it if we get Ross back . boozer , Rip and Bobcats pick for Bargs , Ross and Keliza

Lol, get the **** out of here. Take your garbage elsewhere.

flclfanman
02-07-2013, 09:42 PM
This is an awful idea on so many levels:

You trade a productive player with bad defense for an unproductive player with AWFUL defense

You basically trade away your amnesty option since you can't use it on Rose,Noah,Deng,or Gibson given their level of play the last few years

You trade away your second best scorer for a big man that cant rebound well and hasn't shot well (I'm talking Brandon Jennings bad :speechless:)

You're trading a defensive sieve to a team predicated on defense. What would be the over/under on the number of Aneurysms Thibs'll have after watching him defend? My bet is 2.


This proposed trade is the polar opposite of what the Bulls' FO has been doing for 2 years. My gut tells me Reinsdorf has a big hand in this trade proposal.

flclfanman
02-07-2013, 09:43 PM
Lol, get the **** out of here. Take your garbage elsewhere.

Right back at you with Bargnani :puke:

kenzo400
02-07-2013, 09:45 PM
Right back at you with Bargnani :puke:

I agree Bargnani sucks but Boozer isn't any better. The guy completely dissapears in the playoffs. Bargs would be a risk for Chicago but one worth taking, especially considering he's cheaper and younger.

North Yorker
02-07-2013, 09:46 PM
This is an awful idea on so many levels:

You trade a productive player with bad defense for an unproductive player with AWFUL defense

You basically trade away your amnesty option since you can't use it on Rose,Noah,Deng,or Gibson given their level of play the last few years

You trade away your second best scorer for a big man that cant rebound well and hasn't shot well (I'm talking Brandon Jennings bad :speechless:)

You're trading a defensive sieve to a team predicated on defense. What would be the over/under on the number of Aneurysms Thibs'll have after watching him defend? My bet is 2.


This proposed trade is the polar opposite of what the Bulls' FO has been doing for 2 years. My gut tells me Reinsdorf has a big hand in this trade proposal.

Bargs is actually a very good 1 on 1 and post defender. It's his help defense and rebounding that are his short comings. I actually think he's a better defender than Boozer, although thats not hard to be.

heyman321
02-07-2013, 09:54 PM
I'd do this easily. Both can't defend but Boozer can score in the POST!!! Jesus we need one of that. And I don't care about that salary. It's pennies to what Rogers and Bell makes.

flclfanman
02-07-2013, 09:57 PM
I agree Bargnani sucks but Boozer isn't any better. The guy completely dissapears in the playoffs. Bargs would be a risk for Chicago but one worth taking, especially considering he's cheaper and younger.

If averaging 16 and 9 (around his career totals) and close to 50% Fg is bad then I'd love to see good.

Boozer career avg in reg. Season: 16.9 ppg 9.7 rpg, 53% FG

in the playoffs: 17.2 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 48.3%FG

Boozer actually steps up his game in the playoffs. You're probably thinking of that 2010 run where he was slowed by injury(turf toe)

If Bargnani could do ANYTHING like that we wouldn't be having this conversation.

flclfanman
02-07-2013, 10:00 PM
Bargs is actually a very good 1 on 1 and post defender. It's his help defense and rebounding that are his short comings. I actually think he's a better defender than Boozer, although thats not hard to be.

Can't rebound well and sucks on help defense, both dumbfounding for a 7 footer with his wingspan and range. If he scored consistently like a Brook Lopez or Dirk it'd be forgivable, but when you can score well or play defense consistently, what good are you?

That's why ppl can tolerate Boozer. He's not going to set the world on fire with his D, but he can give you 16-10 on a given night and occasionally bust one open for 25-30 points.

kenzo400
02-07-2013, 10:08 PM
If averaging 16 and 9 (around his career totals) and close to 50% Fg is bad then I'd love to see good.

Boozer career avg in reg. Season: 16.9 ppg 9.7 rpg, 53% FG

in the playoffs: 17.2 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 48.3%FG

Boozer actually steps up his game in the playoffs. You're probably thinking of that 2010 run where he was slowed by injury(turf toe)

If Bargnani could do ANYTHING like that we wouldn't be having this conversation.


Yes, I know his career averages and the fact that he has played in Utahs system with one of the best point guards in the league for most of his career. Either way, I wasn't arguing that Bargs is a better player. I'm just saying that Boozer is pointless to us since he is a 1 dimensional scorer with worse 1on1 defense. There is just not point of acquiring him.

Bargs could easily suck even worse on Chicago but the fact that he spreads the floor and has a diverse offensive game could benefit Chicago greatly. Yes, he is a terrible help defender but considering Bulls are such a good defensive team, it won't hurt them that much. You could get other guys to cover his defensive weaknesses.

sharqstealth
02-07-2013, 10:16 PM
And how will the bulls defend with bargs? I dont think thibs will like it, amd i dont think it will happen

flclfanman
02-07-2013, 10:18 PM
Yes, I know his career averages and the fact that he has played in Utahs system with one of the best point guards in the league for most of his career. Either way, I wasn't arguing that Bargs is a better player. I'm just saying that Boozer is pointless to us since he is a 1 dimensional scorer with worse 1on1 defense. There is just not point of acquiring him.

Bargs could easily suck even worse on Chicago but the fact that he spreads the floor and has a diverse offensive game could benefit Chicago greatly. Yes, he is a terrible help defender but considering Bulls are such a good defensive team, it won't hurt them that much. You could get other guys to cover his defensive weaknesses.

Ok thanks for clarifying.

akesh99
02-07-2013, 10:26 PM
Bargs and Kleiza for Boozer. Get er done BC

Mile High Champ
02-07-2013, 10:31 PM
If averaging 16 and 9 (around his career totals) and close to 50% Fg is bad then I'd love to see good.

Boozer career avg in reg. Season: 16.9 ppg 9.7 rpg, 53% FG

in the playoffs: 17.2 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 48.3%FG

Boozer actually steps up his game in the playoffs. You're probably thinking of that 2010 run where he was slowed by injury(turf toe)

If Bargnani could do ANYTHING like that we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You are looking at all the wrong stats. Boozer's post season WS/48 are an awful .100 compared to the .159 he posts in the regular season. He truly disappears completely in the playoffs and has not been a good post season player since his first year back in 06-07. His PER, eFG% and TS% also drop significantly as well in the post-season. So yes you are very wrong when you say he gets better in the playoffs because he clearly gets worse.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boozeca01.html

Daaaarryyl
02-08-2013, 12:06 AM
GEEEEZ, Just amnesty Boozer after the year (or next) and they'll be under the cap in '14. Rose is a young player, why not look to build a winner rather than wasting years with a guy like Bargs?

kobe4thewinbang
02-08-2013, 12:09 AM
This makes no sense. Why the heck have they been talking for? That desperate to ditch Boozer? Dude ain't always been great, but he's been beasting lately.

Mataro41
02-08-2013, 12:15 AM
bargs for boozer bulls would be stupid unless the Raps throw in TRoss which i doubt. I hope TRoss gets his chance in the NBA because he gots some skills

koreancabbage
02-08-2013, 12:28 AM
bargs for boozer bulls would be stupid unless the Raps throw in TRoss which i doubt. I hope TRoss gets his chance in the NBA because he gots some skills

throw in, more like Bulls are giving up Boozer b/c of money. which more than likely means first rounder to accompany Boozer. for Bargnani and probably Klieza.

we are not talking about talent for talent trade cuz Bulls wouldn't come to the Raptors in the first place looking for Bargnani

salary dump.

GodsSon
02-08-2013, 12:56 AM
Bargnani + Kleiza + 2nd for Boozer + Charlotte pick

Stunner
02-08-2013, 01:06 AM
Why do the Raps think their getting the Bobcats pick without Ross in the deal . Y'all would get any other 1st but that one . Stop asking for it . It's insulting .

smith&wesson
02-08-2013, 01:14 AM
Here's what I think :o

I think taj Gibson makes boozer expendable ... If boozer is traded for bargs, gibson will start imo.

I also think bulls gm maybe didn't do his homework on bargs and thinks he is getting a back up C like Asik :shrug: Barg's is a finess, stretch 4 who can't rebound.

smith&wesson
02-08-2013, 01:17 AM
Why do the Raps think their getting the Bobcats pick without Ross in the deal . Y'all would get any other 1st but that one . Stop asking for it . It's insulting .

Us asking you for the pick really means nothing. Don't be insulted :hi5:

Ross to us is like jimmy butler to u guys ... We love him lol

smith&wesson
02-08-2013, 01:18 AM
Bargnani + Kleiza + 2nd for Boozer + Charlotte pick

This deal prolly won't happen at all bro. And if it does I really doubt we get the Charlotte pick other wise they would be asking for more then Barg's IMO.. But hey I'm with you... A raptor fan can dream lol

Daaaarryyl
02-08-2013, 01:19 AM
So you are saying the Bulls could amnesty Bargs if they traded for him?

Two Rules for Amnesty provision:
1-Player must still be on a contract that was in place when the new CBA was announced in Nov 2011

2-Player must be with the same team as when the new CBA was announced in Nov 2011


So:
-Player still with same team as Nov 2011 but signed new deal= NO AMNESTY
-Player on same deal as was in Nov 2011 but was traded since= NO AMNESTY

-Player on same contract and same team as on Nov 2011= YES, CAN BE AMNESTIED


*NOTE- I use November 2011 because although the new CBA was actually announced in December there were a flurry of moves made which would make it confusing. So basically look back to who was under contract before the new CBA.

R. Johnson#3
02-08-2013, 01:49 AM
If we could turn Bargnani into Boozer I would be so happy.

fin_frenzy_84
02-08-2013, 05:43 AM
throw in, more like Bulls are giving up Boozer b/c of money. which more than likely means first rounder to accompany Boozer. for Bargnani and probably Klieza.

we are not talking about talent for talent trade cuz Bulls wouldn't come to the Raptors in the first place looking for Bargnani

salary dump.

Not really. We still would be getting back a pretty big contract...
We could just amnesty Boozer but if we trade him then we could pretty much just amnesty one of Rose, Noah, or Deng which is not happening.

Bulls are just calling around because Boozers value is high right now

fin_frenzy_84
02-08-2013, 05:43 AM
Here's what I think :o

I think taj Gibson makes boozer expendable ... If boozer is traded for bargs, gibson will start imo.

I also think bulls gm maybe didn't do his homework on bargs and thinks he is getting a back up C like Asik :shrug: Barg's is a finess, stretch 4 who can't rebound.


We need a guy who can stretch the floor... Thats why we called on him

fin_frenzy_84
02-08-2013, 05:46 AM
I would not trade Boozer for Barngani straight up... They would have to throw in ross

I just dont see the bobcats pick being a option.

People can say this trade is a salary dump but its really not because we could just amnesty boozer.

Bulls are a contending team right now so we wont be making our team worse this season.

LanceUpperCut
02-08-2013, 08:06 AM
Are the RAPTORS still in the NBA?...Why would you want a player from that garbage team?

Very insightful. You should write for Espn.

quade36
02-08-2013, 09:22 AM
The key person in this trade (even though he wouldn't be part of it) is taj. Can he pick up some of the offensive inside presence slack that will leave if boozer is traded. He has shown flashes that he could do it. He had some monster games when boozer and Noah were injured. If he does this trade looks better for the bulls than at first glance.

I Rock Shaqs
02-08-2013, 09:23 AM
Bargnani + Kleiza + 2nd for Boozer + Charlotte pick

Throwing in a second round pick and a terrible contract to a contending team isn't a bonus...

koreancabbage
02-08-2013, 10:48 AM
I would not trade Boozer for Barngani straight up... They would have to throw in ross

I just dont see the bobcats pick being a option.

People can say this trade is a salary dump but its really not because we could just amnesty boozer.

Bulls are a contending team right now so we wont be making our team worse this season.

it might be that but Boozer is owed 15 and 16 or something like that the next two years while Bargnani is gonna to hit $11 and 12 the next two.

Why would they come and ask for Bargnani????????? of all players?????? it doesn't even make sense to the Bulls short term in terms of PFs- but they probably will use that money for another piece next year. both contracts run for two years as well.

If they amnesty him, they would have done so already. so why ask for a player which they can't amnesty anymore AND knowing they won't amnesty anyone else on the roster from your previous post, this is a salary dump on a smaller scale, which would be a first and the player as a salary dump. You are probably gonna take all our expirings as well (Klieza and Anderson) to give you more flexibility in the next two years with Rose coming back

kozelkid
02-08-2013, 04:25 PM
Raptor fans must be on something strong if they actually think we're going to deal the Bobcats pick for Bargnani. :laugh2:

I wouldn't even deal the Bobcats pick if Ross was thrown in, but that's more of my personal opinion on Ross. In other words, Bobcats pick to the Bulls is just about as valuable as Ross is to Raptors so if our FO holds more value in Ross than I do (which I doubt given our lack of success with project players), then the only way the Bobcats pick gets added is with Ross.

DChibes
02-08-2013, 04:34 PM
Bulls Clearing room for Kevin Love?:D

Wade n Fade
02-08-2013, 04:34 PM
Raptor fans must be on something strong if they actually think we're going to deal the Bobcats pick for Bargnani. :laugh2:

I wouldn't even deal the Bobcats pick if Ross was thrown enough, but that's more of my personal opinion on Ross. In other words, Bobcats pick to the Bulls is just about as valuable as Ross is to Raptors.

From the Raptors fan perspective (since they are my 2nd fav team,born in Miami, FL, but I am also a Canadian, Toronto is my 2nd home, tons of family there, I visit often, and I have been to a few games in Toronto for the Blue Jays, but not Raptors games since they weren't playing basketball last time, but besides the point), Ross is underutilized. To get rid of Garbagani for anything better is a miracle. Boozer is better on the glass, d (than Garbagani), and he can score in the post. Idk why people bring up the Bobcats pick all the time? The Bobcats/MJ are stupid because they missed on Bradley Beal. They want a SG to go with Walker. That's understandable, but to trade a top 4 pick (in 2016) for Ross, too risky on their end. For the Bulls, this deal doesn't add up. You get another SF/PF with 7"0 size and he cannot rebound. At least Dirk was a competent stretch 4 and post up 4 who can grab about 8 boards a game (when healthy and a lot younger.) People compared Garbagani to Dirk, I never saw the comparision in actuality. Sure, the Bulls need more offense. If they want more offense, try considering a trade for an SG or a PF that can score. Heck, a trade for Bynum makes more sense for the Bulls. It just creates a bench option that is overpaid. The Bulls become weaker if they trade Boozer for Garbagani.

farren.louis
02-08-2013, 04:35 PM
This would be a dumba$$ trade

BHF
02-08-2013, 05:18 PM
Raptor fans must be on something strong if they actually think we're going to deal the Bobcats pick for Bargnani. :laugh2:

I wouldn't even deal the Bobcats pick if Ross was thrown in, but that's more of my personal opinion on Ross. In other words, Bobcats pick to the Bulls is just about as valuable as Ross is to Raptors so if our FO holds more value in Ross than I do (which I doubt given our lack of success with project players), then the only way the Bobcats pick gets added is with Ross.

you don't have to worry you are not getting Ross even if you add the Bobcats pick and the Bulls pick i am 100% sure BC will not give you Ross

kozelkid
02-08-2013, 05:22 PM
you don't have to worry you are not getting Ross even if you add the Bobcats pick and the Bulls pick i am 100% sure BC will not give you Ross

Good. I'm fairly happy with that. Like I said, I have no interest in Ross.

Stunner
02-08-2013, 05:28 PM
Idk now I'm swaying on this deal now , Bargs had more decent seasons than bad . Only knock is that he can't get you 8 boards and his defense . At first the deal looks dumb but this is the type of deal you have to look real deep into . I'm too lazy to go into detail , but if it happen depending on the pieces involved i wouldn't be unhappy with the deal .

Necrosis
02-08-2013, 05:40 PM
Idk now I'm swaying on this deal now , Bargs had more decent seasons than bad . Only knock is that he can't get you 8 boards and his defense . At first the deal looks dumb but this is the type of deal you have to look real deep into . I'm too lazy to go into detail , but if it happen depending on the pieces involved i wouldn't be unhappy with the deal .

Bargs when motivated is actually a very good defender, he is a solid post defender but the knock is help defense. However, when engaged his mobility allows him to be a solid defender. My only issue with bargs is his terrible motor, we seen how good he could be in a ten game stretch and then meh again, he just doesn't have the drive it appears.

bucketss
02-08-2013, 05:43 PM
bargnani is only good when he wants to be,seems like he has a hooker waiting for him in his hotel and just wants to end the game already.

Stunner
02-08-2013, 05:49 PM
Bargs when motivated is actually a very good defender, he is a solid post defender but the knock is help defense. However, when engaged his mobility allows him to be a solid defender. My only issue with bargs is his terrible motor, we seen how good he could be in a ten game stretch and then meh again, he just doesn't have the drive it appears.
Prob the reason why the Bulls started the trade talks because the believe Thibs is the type of coach he needs .

Stunner
02-08-2013, 05:49 PM
He wouldn't get this much if he wasn't the number 1 overall pick

LanceUpperCut
02-08-2013, 05:54 PM
Idk now I'm swaying on this deal now , Bargs had more decent seasons than bad . Only knock is that he can't get you 8 boards and his defense . At first the deal looks dumb but this is the type of deal you have to look real deep into . I'm too lazy to go into detail , but if it happen depending on the pieces involved i wouldn't be unhappy with the deal .

Bargs is just an easy guy to hate right now by many, especially the Raptor fans who use him as a scape goat for are horrible start when there were many other reasons. I can see Bargnani really hitting a new level with Noah, Deng and Rose. He would defiantly piss you off some night's and lead your team in scoring the other nights.

Stunner
02-08-2013, 06:01 PM
Bargs is just an easy guy to hate right now by many, especially the Raptor fans who use him as a scape goat for are horrible start when there were many other reasons. I can see Bargnani really hitting a new level with Noah, Deng and Rose. He would defiantly piss you off some night's and lead your team in scoring the other nights.
Same with Boozer to a degree , the more I think about and study the aspect of it this could be a decent deal for both teams . I would give the Raps a 1st for this year to take on Booz cap not the bobcats pick though .

NJrockPD
02-08-2013, 06:07 PM
If Barg can reach his potential with Thibs then the bulls will look brilliant. IF they can open up the paint for Rose by having Bargs step outside and hit threes. Also if they get the athletic 7 footer to dedicate himself to using his skills to become a better defender this is a no brainer. If Boozer goes to Toronto and continues to play well, while bargs comes here and continues to be a soft, lazy, underachiever than Chicago will look dumb. It's a high risk, high reward situation, except there is a little less risk because the Bulls free up 5-6 mil in cap and have a big contract coming off the books in 2 years either way.

Vancity
02-08-2013, 06:16 PM
Idk now I'm swaying on this deal now , Bargs had more decent seasons than bad . Only knock is that he can't get you 8 boards and his defense . At first the deal looks dumb but this is the type of deal you have to look real deep into . I'm too lazy to go into detail , but if it happen depending on the pieces involved i wouldn't be unhappy with the deal .

Bargnani opens the floor for Rose, creates more space for Noah to rebound offensively. Gives the bulls a deep threat. Bulls got killed on the fast break last night especially when boozer and noah both crashed the boards to no avail.

Bulls are in win now mode. Contending team.
A 2016 top 4 pick does nothing to help them.
Ross a #8 pick would do more than a pick that would likely still not be a difference maker till 2018-19.
By then Rose, Noah, Gibson are on the decline. (Rose at 29-30 will not rely on his explosion, arguably his best game, same as westbrook, Noah 32, plays hard, run down)

That being said, an over-worked, aging 31 yr old Boozer who is paid more than Bargs and clogs the lane for our slashers (Val being like Noah when he broke into the league)

for Bargnani AND Ross (will raise profile at ASG wknd)

You came to the Raptors, and even with NROB and Lucas to offset, they said no.
So come back with that pick you have no need for and you get a shooting big you do have a need for because of your redundancy in gibson/boozer

Boozer doesn't even fit in Toronto. He's inconsistent.
He's the same as Amir Johnson but plays worse defence.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2769/amir-johnson
(12.4 ppg, 9.5 reb, 1.5 Blk, 1.3 Stll\)
Last 10 games to highlight now he is starting (see minutes)

Did i mention he makes half the amount and is 25?

Edit: I would think The bulls pick this year would make it fair. W/O Ross.

Ezekial
02-08-2013, 06:26 PM
Bargnani + Kleiza + 2nd for Boozer + Charlotte pick

Maybe in a wet dream of yours.

smith&wesson
02-08-2013, 06:32 PM
bargnani has the better contract and is actually a better man on man defender + he has more range.. boozer is obviously a better rebounder but his contract sucks and his man on man D is very suspect.

with noah at the C position, bargs could thrive at the 4. Also noah would get to clog the paint while bargs streatches the floor.
thibs will like bargs man on man d over boozers, and also bargs will help space the floor more.
this could actually work out for the bulls.

Vancity
02-08-2013, 06:51 PM
bargnani has the better contract and is actually a better man on man defender + he has more range.. boozer is obviously a better rebounder but his contract sucks and his man on man D is very suspect.

with noah at the C position, bargs could thrive at the 4. Also noah would get to clog the paint while bargs streatches the floor.
thibs will like bargs man on man d over boozers, and also bargs will help space the floor more.
this could actually work out for the bulls.

THIS.

Is why it wouldn't be a good deal for the raps unless they were at least getting the bulls 1st rounder this year.
More salary, clogs the lane for dero/ross/lowry/gay. Takes interior away from Gray/Val

Reasons no one wants Boozer. His on the ball defence.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoEJ8qwdxeA

smiddy012
02-08-2013, 08:31 PM
This trade would not help the Bulls this season. Boozer is having his best year as a Bull, don't let the stats fool you. The reason he's having his best year is because he's finally figured out how to play defense (not that he's exceptional or anything). Plus, players just don't come in and start in Thibbs sytem unless they are defensively sound to begin with, which Barg is far from. And we got a decent PF in Gibson, but damn he is shooting like complete dog-**** this season, the way his offense is going we might as well put Noah at PF and let Gibson get the easy dunks. And this season, Booz has been the overall better player, cuz Gibson's shooting is just that bad.

Only way this trade goes down is if Thibbs himself thinks he can turn Barg around, and is really pushing for the trade. And if we give up a first too we are ********. We already got a stretch 4 with plenty of potential coming next season from Europe.

smiddy012
02-08-2013, 08:36 PM
THIS.

Is why it wouldn't be a good deal for the raps unless they were at least getting the bulls 1st rounder this year.
More salary, clogs the lane for dero/ross/lowry/gay. Takes interior away from Gray/Val

Reasons no one wants Boozer. His on the ball defence.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoEJ8qwdxeA


How much have you watched Boozer play this year? His defense* has been consistently solid, not necessarily good, but not bad either. I was literally willing to trade Booz for a bag of potato chips over the off-season, but he has really turned it around this season.

Boozer posts up, passes, and rebounds a TON better than Barg. Barg has longer range, is younger, and has a cheaper contract, THAT'S IT. And Barg should be a better defender than Booz, but he isn't this season.

STL Don
02-08-2013, 08:42 PM
Not a bad deal for Toronto. I'm impressed with what they're trying to do, given what they've had to work with. They do deserve some credit for constantly trying to improve the team and being aggressive. If they can acquire Carlos Boozer in return for Bargs, that's a great player to receive in terms of value.

Lowry/DeRozan/Gay/Boozer/Valanciunas -- Certainly looks like a starting lineup capable of carrying a team into a few playoff runs.

IversonIsKrazy
02-08-2013, 09:03 PM
Bargs would be better in the pick-and-roll situation. I think ppl can underrate his offense. When healthy, hes pretty solid offensively, he can put the ball on the floor a LOT better than anyone who's 7feet, and can light it up from downtown. And paired up with D-Rose, it can do amazing things. Not to mention having Thibs shoring up his defense so he can be a good help-side defender, it would be deadly paired with Noah.
Though I think a guard like Ross, Kleiza, or Anderson gotta be involved with Bargs for Boozer. I'm just surprised Chicago will be having to give up more assets, I mean Boozer > Bargs. Though this can be interesting for both teams.

koreancabbage
02-08-2013, 09:17 PM
How much have you watched Boozer play this year? His defense* has been consistently solid, not necessarily good, but not bad either. I was literally willing to trade Booz for a bag of potato chips over the off-season, but he has really turned it around this season.

Boozer posts up, passes, and rebounds a TON better than Barg. Barg has longer range, is younger, and has a cheaper contract, THAT'S IT. And Barg should be a better defender than Booz, but he isn't this season.
Funny cuz Bargs hasnt played a lot this year. And if you watch his last games, his man to man is pretty darn good. Just his help defense is bad.

All we know is the Bulls wanted to talk about Bargnani for Boozer, so lets think about why they want to do it. Boozer cant sustain it. Why did it take so long? Cuz he doesnt want to get traded.

Vancity
02-08-2013, 09:29 PM
How much have you watched Boozer play this year? His defense* has been consistently solid, not necessarily good, but not bad either. I was literally willing to trade Booz for a bag of potato chips over the off-season, but he has really turned it around this season.

Boozer posts up, passes, and rebounds a TON better than Barg. Barg has longer range, is younger, and has a cheaper contract, THAT'S IT. And Barg should be a better defender than Booz, but he isn't this season.

Faried carved up Boozer last night. West the night before (29 pts) Boozer was a -23 on the court.
The 3 recent games Booz missed, the bulls went 2-1 and almost beat Nets.
Then the 3 games prior Booz they go 2-1 (bobcats, wiz, warriors)
He shoots 14/43. Wins over warriors can be thanked to Hinrich and Robinson
David Lee puts up 23 on him. 6 rebs suggests they weren't just putbacks. In fact his 12 foult shots and Boozers 5 fouls suggest Boozer couldn't guard him.

In the loss to the Wiz, Boozer had 6 pts, -22 and Gibson was a +6
In the win over the lowly Bobcats, Biyombo was +11, Boozer -12, Gibson +21

In comparision,
Bargs put +2 & 13 pts vs Celts. Guess how Green/Bass did combined -5 18 pts. AB had 2 fouls.
When AB guarded Garnett, he actually shut him down. Why Gray/Johnson were a -5

Faried went 18 and 10 and a -13. Bargs went 23 & 4, +7
Cats- Mullens and Haywood went 16 pts, -9. Bargnani went 25, +4

Even in blowouts vs Jazz by 30 AB had 20 & 8 -20 but 2 fouls. Val had 5 and was the reason millsap got to the line 5 times.
Clippers won by 20. Griffin-19 pts, +2; Jordan 7 pts, +1 - Combined 17 foul shots.
Bargani had 2 fouls. Had 12 pts, -10. Amir Johnson was a -20

Now, those same Pacers.
Nov.13 West- 11 pts, +2, 8 foul shots. Hibbert, 6 pts, -10
Bargnani had 8 pts, +5 3 fouls. Davis and Amir had combined 9 fouls, -5

West 25 pts, +0 ; Hibbert 14 pts, +7

Bargs- 16 pts, 2 fouls, -3, Val 12 pts, 4 fouls, -7


Want to back up your ** FACT ** that Boozer can defend and that Bargnani can't.

I refer back to this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoEJ8qwdxeA

and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fas-Da3NDWc

But I guess Boozer can do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L4vuuveD30

Bargnani's biggest problem isn't on the ball D, off the ball he becomes disinterested and lost at times on the defensive glass. He needs to toughen up. Its the difference between Odom when he wants to play and rebound and when he wants to hover. His rebounding numbers are also affected by being a perimeter offensive player.
Boozer can pass better? A cheaper contract is a big deal, ask all the teams shedding contracts.
Bulls approached Raps.

Try again.

Stunner
02-08-2013, 10:06 PM
Smh

mjt20mik
02-08-2013, 11:18 PM
I'd do it if I was CHI. Gibson needs a chance. He's been putting up monster numbers when Boozer/Noah were out.

Vancity
02-08-2013, 11:21 PM
Smh

Great Rebuttal. Insightful. Typical Homer fan who can't evaluate talent.
I don't even want Bargnani to the Bulls. He's a more valuable expiring to a contending team than Boozer. Makes the Bulls a more multi-dimensional team, is younger and as I clearly have exemplified...
A better defender than Boozer. Sure he lacks some tenacity on the boards. But the bulls have that in Gibson, Noah.

Again, Bargnani. 14 pts tonight, +6, 29 minutes, 7/10 fg And no one was looking for him early in the clock.
West got his, but watching the game, he got his mostly in the 2nd half with Val, Amir guarding him and when Gray was terrible in help D. Bargs guarding Hibbert- 6 pts.

You can keep Boozer and amnesty him in the offseason. You know, because your owner wants to pay 16m for nothing. And next year (greater chance to win with a healthy Rose) you won't have anything to show for Boozer.
Or you could protect Rose by opening the floor, less contact in the lane and not the need to drive, instead kick it out and do it well by creating lots of room for an efficient Bargnani.
Raps with Calderon never had an explosive ballhander like Rose who can create room for shots like Bargnani that teams were closing in on when calderon drove not respecting calderon drives. too predictable and AB's shot are contested. Long Range, open Bargnani is money. and if bigs try to collapse then close out Bargs can definitely drive to the hoop.

Really, with a redundant front line you have. Rather not make the Bulls more diverse. As much as I respect D Rose and don't want anything but another MVP from him. Won't be helped by boozer clogging the lane with Noah, Gibson, none of which are that effective pick n pop.

Stunner
02-08-2013, 11:43 PM
I'm not a homer fan in actually one I'd the more logical ones , I get it from both sides . I was shaking your head at you acting like Boozer was the only one not defending last night. The team as a whole played bad and Boozer was the only bright spot from the starting line up . Not to mention Boozer trying to get his legs back after the hamstring injury isn't didn't play into your argument . Nobody is saying Boozer is a good defender we know this ; but this season Boozer is his best as a Bull on both sides . And I know what my team can do but we aren't going ri amnesty Boozer that would be stupid and knowing our FO history it's not hard for anyone to figure out .

koreancabbage
02-09-2013, 12:12 AM
I'm not a homer fan in actually one I'd the more logical ones , I get it from both sides . I was shaking your head at you acting like Boozer was the only one not defending last night. The team as a whole played bad and Boozer was the only bright spot from the starting line up . Not to mention Boozer trying to get his legs back after the hamstring injury isn't didn't play into your argument . Nobody is saying Boozer is a good defender we know this ; but this season Boozer is his best as a Bull on both sides . And I know what my team can do but we aren't going ri amnesty Boozer that would be stupid and knowing our FO history it's not hard for anyone to figure out .

they are trying to maximize his value right now. He doesn't play defense usually, and if this is the only year he's done it, its only been a stretch. The is the best he's been but he's 31 years old and making big time dough.

They would be lucky to get Bargnani or anyone worthy for Boozer. Like I said before and previous trades made in history, if Boozer is getting shipped out, teams aren't looking for only Boozer - it will be Boozer and a probably the Charlotte first (not really worth much since its like top 10 protected anyways) just for someone to take that salary, especially with the double tax penalty. Now the only reason why the Bulls don't amnesty him is that they still his calibre of a player or similar to move further when it comes playoff time.

Boozer has one of those "untradeable contracts" but can be moved if at least a first rounder comes along with it.

kblo247
02-09-2013, 02:27 AM
Yeah...Boozer certainly doesn't "suck". I got a bit carried away, but I still have never been too enamored with his decision making, defense or efficiency.

But Bargs is BAD. I don't get it for Chicago. Makes sense for Toronto though...unless they'd have to give up something valuable too...because Bargs is not valuable.
I'll say it, unless if you're calling Bron and Melo a PF, Boozer has been top 3 at his position this year nightly. There's him, Zach, and Blake IMO. I'm not really digging Aldridge this year and Love well he stat padded but he sucked

RipCity32
02-09-2013, 02:57 AM
Boozer>Bargs

murphturph
02-09-2013, 03:28 AM
Bargs>boozer

flclfanman
02-09-2013, 03:32 AM
Bargs>boozer

You play 2k13 too? Small world :hi5:

flclfanman
02-09-2013, 03:34 AM
If Rap fans want the Bobcats pick you're gonna have to give up Ross. We already know Derozan's off limits and No need for Amir Johnson since his game is alot like Gibsons'.

Boozer is better than Bargs as of now, so we're not going to give up a potential top 5 pick in a solid draft class to "sweeten the deal"

Tmath
02-09-2013, 03:47 AM
If Rap fans want the Bobcats pick you're gonna have to give up Ross. We already know Derozan's off limits and No need for Amir Johnson since his game is alot like Gibsons'.

Boozer is better than Bargs as of now, so we're not going to give up a potential top 5 pick in a solid draft class to "sweeten the deal"

Boozer is also 5 years older (31) and is getting paid 5 mill more.

Besides, apparently the Raptors don't like the deal. So you aren't likely getting Bargnani or Ross.

flclfanman
02-09-2013, 03:50 AM
As far as I know, no one here is the GM for the Raptors or Bulls.

Besides, apparently the Raptors don't like the deal. So you aren't likely getting Bargnani or Ross.

I know, I just got into armchair GM mode, was bored and revisited this thread.

If this deal breaks down I won't lose any sleep over it for the aforementioned reasons.

TopsyTurvy
02-09-2013, 04:02 AM
Besides, apparently the Raptors don't like the deal.

Huh, what deal? There's no moral high ground to be taken here...

Just to get numbers to match, the Raptors would have to send something else back and that was never even discussed with the original rumor.

Even Toronto media acknowledge that, while there are no "active talks," that's not to say the idea couldn't be revisited ala the Rudy Gay trade.

As for my opinion, I believe Toronto needs a point guard and I think the Spurs are the best suitors for that.

smiddy012
02-09-2013, 04:21 AM
Faried carved up Boozer last night. West the night before (29 pts) Boozer was a -23 on the court.
The 3 recent games Booz missed, the bulls went 2-1 and almost beat Nets.
Then the 3 games prior Booz they go 2-1 (bobcats, wiz, warriors)
He shoots 14/43. Wins over warriors can be thanked to Hinrich and Robinson
David Lee puts up 23 on him. 6 rebs suggests they weren't just putbacks. In fact his 12 foult shots and Boozers 5 fouls suggest Boozer couldn't guard him.

In the loss to the Wiz, Boozer had 6 pts, -22 and Gibson was a +6
In the win over the lowly Bobcats, Biyombo was +11, Boozer -12, Gibson +21

In comparision,
Bargs put +2 & 13 pts vs Celts. Guess how Green/Bass did combined -5 18 pts. AB had 2 fouls.
When AB guarded Garnett, he actually shut him down. Why Gray/Johnson were a -5

Faried went 18 and 10 and a -13. Bargs went 23 & 4, +7
Cats- Mullens and Haywood went 16 pts, -9. Bargnani went 25, +4

Even in blowouts vs Jazz by 30 AB had 20 & 8 -20 but 2 fouls. Val had 5 and was the reason millsap got to the line 5 times.
Clippers won by 20. Griffin-19 pts, +2; Jordan 7 pts, +1 - Combined 17 foul shots.
Bargani had 2 fouls. Had 12 pts, -10. Amir Johnson was a -20

Now, those same Pacers.
Nov.13 West- 11 pts, +2, 8 foul shots. Hibbert, 6 pts, -10
Bargnani had 8 pts, +5 3 fouls. Davis and Amir had combined 9 fouls, -5

West 25 pts, +0 ; Hibbert 14 pts, +7

Bargs- 16 pts, 2 fouls, -3, Val 12 pts, 4 fouls, -7


Want to back up your ** FACT ** that Boozer can defend and that Bargnani can't.

I refer back to this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoEJ8qwdxeA

and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fas-Da3NDWc

But I guess Boozer can do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L4vuuveD30

Bargnani's biggest problem isn't on the ball D, off the ball he becomes disinterested and lost at times on the defensive glass. He needs to toughen up. Its the difference between Odom when he wants to play and rebound and when he wants to hover. His rebounding numbers are also affected by being a perimeter offensive player.
Boozer can pass better? A cheaper contract is a big deal, ask all the teams shedding contracts.
Bulls approached Raps.

Try again.

Oh wow, three games. What a great sample size! Oh I've just been schooled! OMG those youtube videos completely sealed the deal! And they're all so recent!

Can Barg do this???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmX52VQbbb4
That wasn't that hard for me to do was it?

Let's assume that Bargnani is slightly better than Boozer defensively, even though they both have ****** reputations when it comes to defense.

Barg sucks, I mean, SUCKS, at rebounding. Meanwhile Booz is one of the best in the league (feel free to reference their statistics). Passing? Booz is one of the the better passing big men in the league, even though his role is that of a finisher, Barg not so much (again, feel free to reference their statistics).

Now Barg is supposed to be better offensively than Boozer? His "great value" is his offense and stretching the floor? He's hitting 30% from the 3, even Deng shoots the 3 better, and he doesn't even have the reputation of a shooter. And Barg has a FG% of 40%!!! Meanwhile Boozer is at 48%. He's such a good mid-range shooter that he is double-teamed when hot. Oh, and he can post-up, can Barg do that?

Even if Barg is a better defender, he's still a bad defender. And even then, Boozer's offense has been a great deal better this season (and career wise). Throw in the rebounding and passing, and it's quite obvious who the better player has been and continues to be.

If the Bulls even got Barg, they'd be better off with Deng at PF and Butler at SF if they wanted a stretch 4. Deng's light years ahead of Barg defensively, and a plenty better shooter this season.

Legitimate
02-09-2013, 04:21 AM
Give us David Robinson and you have a deal. :D. For real though, I just want a good back up point guard, but not for Boozer.

dalton749
02-09-2013, 05:13 AM
Oh wow, three games. What a great sample size! Oh I've just been schooled! OMG those youtube videos completely sealed the deal! And they're all so recent!

Can Barg do this???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmX52VQbbb4
That wasn't that hard for me to do was it?

Let's assume that Bargnani is slightly better than Boozer defensively, even though they both have ****** reputations when it comes to defense.

Barg sucks, I mean, SUCKS, at rebounding. Meanwhile Booz is one of the best in the league (feel free to reference their statistics). Passing? Booz is one of the the better passing big men in the league, even though his role is that of a finisher, Barg not so much (again, feel free to reference their statistics).

Now Barg is supposed to be better offensively than Boozer? His "great value" is his offense and stretching the floor? He's hitting 30% from the 3, even Deng shoots the 3 better, and he doesn't even have the reputation of a shooter. And Barg has a FG% of 40%!!! Meanwhile Boozer is at 48%. He's such a good mid-range shooter that he is double-teamed when hot. Oh, and he can post-up, can Barg do that?

Even if Barg is a better defender, he's still a bad defender. And even then, Boozer's offense has been a great deal better this season (and career wise). Throw in the rebounding and passing, and it's quite obvious who the better player has been and continues to be.

If the Bulls even got Barg, they'd be better off with Deng at PF and Butler at SF if they wanted a stretch 4. Deng's light years ahead of Barg defensively, and a plenty better shooter this season.

lol.

eugene
02-09-2013, 06:12 AM
Don't see the reason why Raptors should do this. Valanciunas will improve much over next summer. Remember my words, kiddo has balls, 15 and 11 player next season. Johnson could move to 4 in this case and you've got a solid core in Valanciunas, Johnson, Gay and DeRozan. Trade Barg for solid PG and we have 4-6 seeded team.

Legitimate
02-09-2013, 06:40 AM
Nah raptors don't do this trade, i'll take Bargnani of the bench next year for a deep playoff run.

KingPosey
02-09-2013, 07:54 AM
Ya if its not a money decision this is dumb for Chi town. Boozer carried them for a month and is playing much better this season.

Vancity
02-09-2013, 08:20 AM
I'm not a homer fan in actually one I'd the more logical ones , I get it from both sides . I was shaking your head at you acting like Boozer was the only one not defending last night. The team as a whole played bad and Boozer was the only bright spot from the starting line up . Not to mention Boozer trying to get his legs back after the hamstring injury isn't didn't play into your argument . Nobody is saying Boozer is a good defender we know this ; but this season Boozer is his best as a Bull on both sides . And I know what my team can do but we aren't going ri amnesty Boozer that would be stupid and knowing our FO history it's not hard for anyone to figure out .

The Bulls are going over luxury tax this year. Meaning next year even with a hike in tax to projected 84m next year. In order for Bulls to stay under they must sign 2 rookies. check. one mini mid level check and 2 league minimums. Bye Belli, NRob, Mohammed, Cook, Radmanovic.
So no acquiring during this or next season of extra salary. Bulls will pay extra 3.2m in tax this year alone.
Since no one, count it no one takes Boozers 16m poison pill unless it is a deal shaped like Speights (8m) -Leuer. IE Boozer (16m) + 1st etc for a body. Would likely take MORE than that. To a team with room. Otherwise, try explaining to your owner next year why traded for a 16m dollar 32 yr old on the decline when it put you 5m over cap and cost him 7.5m extra.
Bulls if 3/4 years (and likely to to contend with Rose and hunt for upgrade over Deng) repeat luxury tax...

"For the first $5 million a team exceeds the tax threshold, it will be charged $1.50 per dollar, meaning that the cost of exceeding the tax threshold by $5 million is a tax charge of $7.5 million.

For each dollar between $5 million and $10 million that a team exceeds the tax threshold, it will be charged $1.75 per dollar, so a team that is $9 million over the tax threshold would pay $7.5 million for the first $5 million, plus an additional $6 million for the next $4 million.

In short, the tax has become much more expensive and much more oppressive, and while a team exceeding the tax threshold by $30 million will probably cease to be the norm, a team exceeding it by $15 million would be hit with a tax bill of about $29 million. That’s more reasonable, but still a hefty sum.

And not exceeding the tax threshold by more than $15 million will require astute management and making tough decisions. We are much less likely to see teams taking eight figure risks on young players based solely on upside.

That's true even before taking into account the notorious “repeater rate” luxury tax charges. The repeater rate essentially discourages teams from being perennial taxpayers. If a team’s payroll exceeds the luxury tax threshold three times during a four-year period, it will have to pay an additional $1 on the aforementioned sliding scale.

So, for example, instead of being charged $1.25 per dollar between $0 and $5 million over the threshold, the charge is $2.50 per dollar. And for each dollar between $5 million and $10 million, the repeater rate is $2.75 as opposed to $1.75. For each dollar between $10 million and $15 million, instead of being charged $2.50 per dollar (under normal circumstances), the charge is $3.50 per dollar.

In other words, if a team makes exceeding the tax threshold a habit and is charged the repeater rate after being a taxpaying team four times in any five year period, its tax bill would see a substantial increase.
A team that has a payroll exceeding the tax threshold by $15 million and paying the repeater rate would be hit with a tax bill of an astonishing $44 million."

Read: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1457745-how-nbas-luxury-tax-penalties-will-impact-elite-teams

justinnum1
02-09-2013, 08:53 AM
I think the bulls ship rip for a 2nd to avoid paying tax this season.

Bob_at_york
02-09-2013, 09:46 AM
Passing? Booz is one of the the better passing big men in the league, even though his role is that of a finisher, Barg not so much (again, feel free to reference their statistics).

I have no stats, just wanted to let you know that Bargs is a pretty good passer, he just isn't the most willing passer. If he trusts his teammates more he would be passing it a lot more.

Vancity
02-09-2013, 09:51 AM
Oh wow, three games. What a great sample size! Oh I've just been schooled! OMG those youtube videos completely sealed the deal! And they're all so recent!

Can Barg do this???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmX52VQbbb4
That wasn't that hard for me to do was it?

Let's assume that Bargnani is slightly better than Boozer defensively, even though they both have ****** reputations when it comes to defense.

Barg sucks, I mean, SUCKS, at rebounding. Meanwhile Booz is one of the best in the league (feel free to reference their statistics). Passing? Booz is one of the the better passing big men in the league, even though his role is that of a finisher, Barg not so much (again, feel free to reference their statistics).

Now Barg is supposed to be better offensively than Boozer? His "great value" is his offense and stretching the floor? He's hitting 30% from the 3, even Deng shoots the 3 better, and he doesn't even have the reputation of a shooter. And Barg has a FG% of 40%!!! Meanwhile Boozer is at 48%. He's such a good mid-range shooter that he is double-teamed when hot. Oh, and he can post-up, can Barg do that?

Even if Barg is a better defender, he's still a bad defender. And even then, Boozer's offense has been a great deal better this season (and career wise). Throw in the rebounding and passing, and it's quite obvious who the better player has been and continues to be.

If the Bulls even got Barg, they'd be better off with Deng at PF and Butler at SF if they wanted a stretch 4. Deng's light years ahead of Barg defensively, and a plenty better shooter this season.

Where to start...

Tonight Bulls win. Boozer has 19, +6. Well done.
But... Al Jeff(+6) and Millsap (+2) combined for 32 and 21 respectively= 53 pts.
Just compare these guys last 10 games. Boozer is already cracking.

Ah, I sampled 2 games since Boozers hammy pull (signs of an aging player, out of shape)
3 prior to his injury. And 3 while he was away where the bulls did remarkable in his absence.
I failed to mention Booz was -16 in 22 minutes vs DEN
Wiz: That Okafor and Nene who combine to average 20 pts put up 31. The offensive beasts they are that can create off the dribble. Did i mention Boozer went -22 in that game, oh I did. Well, Noah went -10 so don't blame it on him. Or Taj who went +6. Oh I know, John Wall broke down the guards and scored a WHOPPING.. 15 pts.
BOOZ SUCKS ON AND OFF THE BALL DEFENCE. Period.

I sampled 2 since ABs injury. 1 26 game elbow injury. You know where your arm is weaker, you're hesitant to get it in harms way, where it affects your shot. One vs same Pacers.
I sampled 5 games using the same teams (Pacers, Bobcats, Nuggets)
I sampled 2 games where the Raps were blown out, to make to not whine about the Nuggets game.
I found this gem. Raps lose by 30 to Jazz.
Bargs also puts up 20 & 8, wait oh wait! He was a -20. Rightttt, damn. Got me.
"....but 2 fouls. Val had 5 and was the reason millsap got to the line 5 times.
Those Clippers won by 20 right!
But... Griffin-19 pts, +2; Jordan 7 pts, +1 - Combined 17 foul shots. Must of been poor on the ball Defense.
So let's.. idk Compare!
Bargani had 2 fouls. Had 12 pts, -10. Amir Johnson was a -20"

Nice Clip:

Biyombo (1.7 blks) was coming weakside underneath basket, ill-prepared. Boozers man & NRobs guard left Boozer, free lane. Weak.

AB-
Showcasing his Triple threat attack and Defence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efT2qhyn2U8

Shakes Balkman (considered great defender) And Rises over a challenging Birdman. Who at the time was avg 2.5 Blks a game. Dwight territory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBzVPXxV8UY

Shakes Lopez, dunks over 2 nets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYDvtmEzBMQ

1-up ya, Shakes then Over Biyombo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPR0M0PR9N8

Bargnani has a poor Rep for... Defensive and Offensive Reb (Because he is a perimeter player like Dirk)
In fact a comparision of the two has Bargs career O/REB as nearly identical to Dirks. Hmmm. Interesting.

Weird how when Boozer was 27, the year prior had his best season like Bargnani and had a knee issue for 3 mos and had an off year. He bounced back the next year to replicate his numbers. Arguably having his best statistical season ever (Career highs in Reb, Ast, FG %) Averaging 2 less pts and 2 less shot attempts than his peak PPG pre-injury. And all this led to his Bulls contract.
Don't worry a Bargnani-bounce back season next year won't lead him to receiving a massive overpayment. He's under contract for 11.5
Not to mention, since Boozer has been on the decline and showing signs of wear. Whereas Bargnani's game, mainly outside tends to stand the text of time. Ask Dirk! Ask Sam Perkins! Ask Vlade Divac!

Let's compare Booz generously in model to Kevin Mchale. Mchale's last real Starting season was at 31. He averaged 36 minutes. Booz is at 30 minutes a game right now. From there Mchale never fully started and retired at 35.
Boozers rebounding is top notch for now. And is what he is known for.
Boozers AST numbers largely mirror Bargnani's. Booz last 10 games avg. 0.3 asts. Thats 3 assists in 10 games for you math majors. Bargs last 10.... 15 asts. Must be nice to pass it to D Rose and D Will and have him bail you of a jam and pick up an assist for it.

So lets get this straight. Bargnani plays perimeter, Therefore taking longer range shots= greater difficulty. Now his 10% increase in FT shooting implies he is a better shooter than Boozer and is what his team expects of him.
Before this inj=plagued year drawing more fouls the last 2 years and FT attempts than Booz. Actually at a rate 27 year old Booz did.
But... in doing so opens lane for his teammates. Can't be stack tracked.
Bargnani is a career 36% shooter which is akin to Nowitzki.
By no means are these players the same. No ones saying that. Infact their differences caused the offer.
The Bulls offered Boozer because of money, declining age, and redundancy in player type.
Not to mention since receiving the big contract, Boozer has faded in the playoffs.
Deng cannot guard David West, Gasol, Amare...etc etc.. Bargnani has 3 inches and 40 lbs on him.

If someone came to me and said Poor man's 31 yr old mchale or poor mans 27 yr old Dirk. Oh and dirks 5m less a yr. With the tax factor.... Think about it.

raptor fan
02-09-2013, 02:38 PM
I dont think the raptors will move ross in this deal, and as a result, i'm not expecting charlotte's unprotected pick back in this sort of deal. I think the following deal may be a fair trade:

Toronto trades: Andrea Bargnani, Aaron Gray, and Hadad Haddadi
Toronto acquires: Carlos Boozer, Marquis Teague, Nazr Mohammed and Chicago's 2013 first round pick (as an incentive to take the extra salary over 3 years)

KnicksR4Real
02-09-2013, 02:53 PM
Idk just doesn't make sense for the Raptors or the Bulls. The Bulls are a good team as it is, and I don't think the want to make a big trade like that. Only role players are they going to trade for.