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Fresno
02-06-2013, 04:02 PM
And now the 2nd domino appears to have fallen.



Sounding noticeably frustrated after the team's latest loss, Memphis Grizzlies big man Zach Randolph said the team's offense is, "pick-and-roll now," Geoff Calkins of the Memphis Commercial Appeal writes.

Despite a strong start on Tuesday night against the Phoenix Suns, Randolph ended up taking just one shot attempt in the fourth quarter of the Grizzlies' 96-90 loss. He still finished the game with 21 points and 13 rebounds, but it's obvious that Memphis is still looking for an identity on offense after trading leading scorer Rudy Gay.

While it's worth wondering just how good Gay is, it's become clear that the Grizzlies miss his ability to create shots and attack the rim. He didn't always do those things as frequently or efficiently as one would like, but Memphis is still adjusting to a roster that had featured Gay for years.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/2/6/3960212/zach-randolph-memphis-grizzlies-offense-lionel-hollins



ESPN's Chad Ford believes the Grizzlies will also deal Zach Randolph before the trade deadline
http://twitter.com/MySportsLegion/status/299236262261432321

Not surprising.

The offense looks terrible at this point and Randolph is simply just a low post scorer at this point in his career after 13 seasons. He can't adjust the way Pau Gasol could, with his game and his mentality.

JNoel
02-06-2013, 04:04 PM
Zach Randolph to the Raptors for Bargnani and Kleiza :laugh2:

Fresno
02-06-2013, 04:10 PM
Zach Randolph to the Raptors for Bargnani and Kleiza :laugh2:

I just checked their PER.

That isnt a good deal.

Zach Randolph straight up for Quincy Acy's 16.6 PER and Amir Johnson's 17.8 PER

ManRam
02-06-2013, 04:15 PM
I just checked their PER.

That isnt a good deal.

Zach Randolph straight up for Quincy Acy's 16.6 PER and Amir Johnson's 17.8 PER

If they could get Lowry too that would be a great deal for Memphis...seriously.

ZBo has to have a lot more value than Gay had.

*Silver&Black*
02-06-2013, 04:21 PM
I don't know if Grizz fans like trading away Gay/Randolph but as someone outside looking in, why did the Grizz ruin the chance they had to advance in the playoffs this year? Just for money? For the fans, do you believe Conley/Gasol is your foundation and you could do without Gay/Randolph?

PacersForLife
02-06-2013, 04:25 PM
Man, they really messed up a good thing there in Memphis.

ManRam
02-06-2013, 04:28 PM
I don't know if Grizz fans like trading away Gay/Randolph but as someone outside looking in, why did the Grizz ruin the chance they had to advance in the playoffs this year? Just for money? For the fans, do you believe Conley/Gasol is your foundation and you could do without Gay/Randolph?

A lot of it obviously was money. They have a lot of big long-term contracts. They just got rid of their worst for sure. I think a lot of it was looking long term. They pretty much were maxed out in terms of what they could achieve with what they had. They weren't going to have good draft picks, they weren't going to have money to spend and they weren't winning a championship any time soon.

I'd understand why Grizz fans could be upset, but I still think these moves could, and probably will, pay off down the road. They were about to be Atlanta Hawks West with how their roster was set up. This gives them a lot more flexibility.

I'm lower on Gay, especially how he was playing this year, than it seems like a lot of people are. I think they've done fine on their past two trades. Arthur is capable of filling in for Speights, and shedding his salary was a good move. Selby and Ellington aren't really key players on any contending team. I've said time after time why I like the Gay trade...especially long-term.

Trading ZBo will be a lot more iffy. He's far more valuable to that team, or really to any team. That really will depend on what they get back and truly will dictate if they have a shot to win a playoff series, or even two, this year or not.

*Silver&Black*
02-06-2013, 04:29 PM
They were about to be Atlanta Hawks West with how their roster was set up. This gives them a lot more flexibility.

I can obviously understand that then. I liked what they got back for Gay, but trading Randolph seems like a bad idea, unless they thought they couldn't advance anymore then what they have been.

Hellcrooner
02-06-2013, 04:32 PM
Domino.

Zach gets traded for a similar package than gay then Marc G asks for a trade next.

J4KOP99
02-06-2013, 04:32 PM
to whom and for what?

Mikeleafs
02-06-2013, 04:33 PM
to whom and for what?


http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=at9mgsp

Clippersfan86
02-06-2013, 04:33 PM
Thanks Hollinger for fu**ing up a growing rivalry. Serious though as much as I didn't like the Memphis team.... the front office/owner fu**ed this team up and I feel sorry for them.

ManRam
02-06-2013, 04:34 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=at9mgsp

Yeah....

Memphis would shoot that down in a heartbeat.

JasonJohnHorn
02-06-2013, 04:34 PM
I'm surprised. I thought Z-Bo would have liked being the clear cut first option on offence. But that said, it is pretty clear the front office has thrown the towel in on this season, and the coach has made it clear he does not approve, and knowing that the coach doesn't buy into the recent trades, it seems like he is going to have a hard time motivating his team to compete at their highest level.

That said, I still think this team, as it is, can win in the playoffs. I wouldn't put any money on them going all the way, but I do think that they can win a 7 game series against pretty much any team in the West outside of OKC and the Spurs, and even the Spurs lost to Memphis a couple year ago. Clippers would be a great series, as we saw last year, it could have went either way.

I do feel bad for Memphis fans though.

AddiX
02-06-2013, 04:42 PM
I understand what Memphis did, but it was a bad move, a bad message to there fans, and a bad decision for the outlook for the franchise.

Who in the right mind, wants to be there now, or will want to go there? And why are they making these moves as if gay and Randolph will be washed up in a year, sorry, but this is pathetic, and if I was the NBA I would look into this.

As a marketing consultant, this is a very bad look for the nba's brand image. Stern can't be happy with this.

Cal827
02-06-2013, 04:42 PM
If Z-bo ends up in Toronto, I'm going to laugh so freaking hard.

rockbottom2010
02-06-2013, 04:43 PM
If they could get Lowry too that would be a great deal for Memphis...seriously.

ZBo has to have a lot more value than Gay had.

never happening....conley and bayless are running the pg spot

rockbottom2010
02-06-2013, 04:44 PM
this is a joke....and espn gave memphis and detroit a higher score than the raptors did in order to boost up hollingers front office skills...********

AddiX
02-06-2013, 04:46 PM
There a 4th seed in the west, blow this team up!

Makes sense right?

Didn't think so...

SugeKnight
02-06-2013, 04:47 PM
They should just swap teams with toronto

KniCks4LiFe
02-06-2013, 05:00 PM
Zach Randolph to the Raptors for Bargnani and Kleiza :laugh2:

Gay and Z-Bo didn't like ea. other and didn't really want to play together. So scratch that.

SACNYY
02-06-2013, 05:01 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6rhbd2z

Nats_vcu-Okc35
02-06-2013, 05:05 PM
They should just swap teams with toronto

At this rate they might. I'm not quite sure where the end game is headed. Who are they targeting that they believe makes them markedly better for zbo, who has the second most double-doubles in the league? I had heard hollinger was looking to cut these contracts, but I now wonder if the FO is over thinking this.

heyman321
02-06-2013, 05:05 PM
Thanks John Hollinger

Fresno
02-06-2013, 05:06 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6rhbd2z

Would be hilarious if that happened.

Always wondered what would happen if you put Ron Artest and Zach Randolph on the same team.

dtmagnet
02-06-2013, 05:08 PM
Maybe the people who hated on Toronto and praised Memphis will think a little harder now.

Sssmush
02-06-2013, 05:15 PM
A lot of it obviously was money. They have a lot of big long-term contracts. They just got rid of their worst for sure. I think a lot of it was looking long term. They pretty much were maxed out in terms of what they could achieve with what they had. They weren't going to have good draft picks, they weren't going to have money to spend and they weren't winning a championship any time soon.

I'd understand why Grizz fans could be upset, but I still think these moves could, and probably will, pay off down the road. They were about to be Atlanta Hawks West with how their roster was set up. This gives them a lot more flexibility.

I'm lower on Gay, especially how he was playing this year, than it seems like a lot of people are. I think they've done fine on their past two trades. Arthur is capable of filling in for Speights, and shedding his salary was a good move. Selby and Ellington aren't really key players on any contending team. I've said time after time why I like the Gay trade...especially long-term.

Trading ZBo will be a lot more iffy. He's far more valuable to that team, or really to any team. That really will depend on what they get back and truly will dictate if they have a shot to win a playoff series, or even two, this year or not.

Apparently the players on the team recognize how valuable Rudy Gay was, and how much of a key player he was.

Now it is the domino effect and not only their entire season but every good player wants out. Getting rid of Zbo is pretty obvious, he was a guy who had problems anyway. But then after that, Marc Gasol will likely want out, because the team is in rebuilding mode. Memphis will want to keep HIM, because they see him as young and marketable, so when he makes a nasty trade demand then the whole franchise will be ****ed, at least for a while.

Like, moving Gay was easy, smooth; Zbo situation a bit worse, because he is making a subtle trade demand and apparently making some noises that the team sucks and he's not happy; when Marc Gasol demands out, it will be even worse, because he will have to be like "HEY!!! MEDIA!!! THIS TEAM SUCKS I DEMAND TO BE TRADED!!!" And then like I said the Grizzlies have completed ****ing themselves completely.

Fresno
02-06-2013, 05:19 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bgkemox

With the way things are going for both teams, why not?

Nets get back another 16/10 kind of player
Grizzlies hope Blatche keeps playing the way he does & Brooks learns to play defense
Nuggets get more frontcourt help for the Playoffs

ManRam
02-06-2013, 05:19 PM
Thanks Hollinger for fu**ing up a growing rivalry. Serious though as much as I didn't like the Memphis team.... the front office/owner fu**ed this team up and I feel sorry for them.

I'm not even convinced they're any worse off now than they were at the start of the season. Let's see how they play with the pieces they have now. I think's Gay value to that team did certainly exist, but he wasn't playing as well as he normally does...nor was he really statistically much of an asset. Considering he was paid top-flight money, and was a borderline top-50 performer this year, getting rid of him long term makes sense.

Let's be a little patient before we blast the front office. Not only are these moves potentially long-term moves first and foremost, but we don't even know how it will impact them short term.

ManRam
02-06-2013, 05:20 PM
Apparently the players on the team recognize how valuable Rudy Gay was, and how much of a key player he was.

Now it is the domino effect and not only their entire season but every good player wants out. Getting rid of Zbo is pretty obvious, he was a guy who had problems anyway. But then after that, Marc Gasol will likely want out, because the team is in rebuilding mode. Memphis will want to keep HIM, because they see him as young and marketable, so when he makes a nasty trade demand then the whole franchise will be ****ed, at least for a while.

Like, moving Gay was easy, smooth; Zbo situation a bit worse, because he is making a subtle trade demand and apparently making some noises that the team sucks and he's not happy; when Marc Gasol demands out, it will be even worse, because he will have to be like "HEY!!! MEDIA!!! THIS TEAM SUCKS I DEMAND TO BE TRADED!!!" And then like I said the Grizzlies have completed ****ing themselves completely.

Players have *****ed and moaned about lesser things.

The Domino effect seems to be true, but that doesn't mean the moves were wrong. It might mean the players didn't like it, but it doesn't mean it's wrong. The front office is doing their job, and the players should just shut up and do their's. That's always my opinion.

smith&wesson
02-06-2013, 05:28 PM
kevin martin for randolph :shrug:

westbrook
sefalosha
durant
randolph
ibaka

that would be scary.

Fresno
02-06-2013, 05:31 PM
Let's be a little patient before we blast the front office. Not only are these moves potentially long-term moves first and foremost, but we don't even know how it will impact them short term.
Well they are long-term moves.

It looks like Conley & Gasol are future cornerstones of a team that will once again be in the quest for a superstar level type of player at SG or SF. Then there are young guys with upside like Davis & Wroten who probably will be there for awhile. They gave Rudy Gay 3 seasons to become that kind of superstar player and he didn't step up, and they basically saved $8 Million over the next 2 seasons in doing that deal.

But for the fans, Lionel Hollins, & veterans like Randolph/Allen you would think Memphis would wait to see how they did 1 last time in the Playoffs before they started blowing up the team. That way everybody could get the most out of the run knowing that it was their last ride together, just like the Mavericks did 2 years ago and Boston did last season eventhough Rivers & KG both returned. But Memphis would have been in a situation where they weren't going to blow it up too early like Dallas did or wait too late until things went downhill like Boston is going through. You could close the chapter and move on.

Memphis seems to be trying to set themselves up by dealing Randolph now or after the season to have cap space in 2014 and/or be bad enough in 2014 to position themselves for a high draft pick in arguably the most talented draft class since 2003.

Hawkeye15
02-06-2013, 05:33 PM
Did people think there wouldn't be an adjustment period after Gay left? This team has been together for a long time, same core, same starting lineup, etc. Its Hollins job to change up the offense, and the players to adjust. Getting rid of a top 40-50 player who made $18 million per year is still the right move long term, now its Hollins job to coach, or they can go find another coach that will use his assets on this team.

Fresno
02-06-2013, 05:36 PM
Did people think there wouldn't be an adjustment period after Gay left? This team has been together for a long time, same core, same starting lineup, etc. Its Hollins job to change up the offense, and the players to adjust. Getting rid of a top 40-50 player who made $18 million per year is still the right move long term, now its Hollins job to coach, or they can go find another coach that will use his assets on this team.

Id be willing to wager some cash that Hollins will be gone by this time next year.

He even said he hasn't even talked to their new management/ownership, and Hollinger has been given more power than Chris Wallace over personnel moves like the Rudy Gay trade.

Thats an uncomfortable environment espescially since the owner who had given him the Grizzlies job 3 TIMES is now out of the picture.

OceanSpray
02-06-2013, 05:37 PM
They are breaking up a team that is playing well.. This makes no sense. Next they're going to trade Marc Gasol.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-06-2013, 05:38 PM
They already planned to trade him long ago.

I say he goes to the Lakers.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-06-2013, 05:39 PM
kevin martin for randolph :shrug:

westbrook
sefalosha
durant
randolph
ibaka

that would be scary.

Didn't Perkins and Randolph have a fight?

Deezy3
02-06-2013, 05:57 PM
The Grizzlies are NOT going to trade Zach Randolph. Everything you hear is just rumors and speculation, started by people who's job is to start rumors and speculate.

koreancabbage
02-06-2013, 06:00 PM
They are breaking up a team that is playing well.. This makes no sense. Next they're going to trade Marc Gasol.

it was a money move that began with Gay. Memphis isn't a contender anymore, especially if they traded a player like Gay. I'm pretty sure Randolph was more happy with Gay there even if they did bump heads there. They lost Mayo and Gay. so far, they are lacking wing scoring and talent.

Prince is pretty **** and he doesn't do much to affect the entire game even if he does the little things decent. Ed Davis is gonna be pretty much garbage in that system considering that they don't have a great passer like Calderon there. They were probably ONE piece away- pre Rudy Gay trade - to actually make a move in the West and be legit championship contenders.

teddygreen17
02-06-2013, 06:04 PM
Memphis just got good like 5 years ago and now they are going to go back to the old Abdul-Rahim Grizzlies...not good for fans of Memphis man.

OceanSpray
02-06-2013, 06:08 PM
it was a money move that began with Gay. Memphis isn't a contender anymore, especially if they traded a player like Gay. I'm pretty sure Randolph was more happy with Gay there even if they did bump heads there. They lost Mayo and Gay. so far, they are lacking wing scoring and talent.

Prince is pretty **** and he doesn't do much to affect the entire game even if he does the little things decent. Ed Davis is gonna be pretty much garbage in that system considering that they don't have a great passer like Calderon there. They were probably ONE piece away- pre Rudy Gay trade - to actually make a move in the West and be legit championship contenders.

It doesn't matter if it was a money move because they could've seriously competed with that team. Now it's all gone because they want to save money? Why build a team to win a ring if you're just going to give them huge contracts and trade them away?

DR_1
02-06-2013, 06:12 PM
Oh man I feel really bad for Grizz fans. They were looking like a contender before they made their stupid "budget trades."

Guppyfighter
02-06-2013, 06:15 PM
Oh man I feel really bad for Grizz fans. They were looking like a contender before they made their stupid "budget trades."

They will be fine and get back to the pseudo-contender status soon enough.

Keep3HEATSOnMe
02-06-2013, 06:22 PM
Hopefully it's just a rumor.

Hawkeye15
02-06-2013, 06:22 PM
It doesn't matter if it was a money move because they could've seriously competed with that team. Now it's all gone because they want to save money? Why build a team to win a ring if you're just going to give them huge contracts and trade them away?

And you buy a team as an investment. You aren't paying the bills, the owner of the Memphis Grizzlies is. And remember, it was the previous management that gave Gay that stupid deal. This management probably realized what a hamstring contract that was, and decided to get rid of a player that quite frankly hasn't been very good this season at all. They will be fine, this is just an adjustment period. Besides, did anyone really think this team was a true contender? I mean, I could see a round in before they get beat, but their offense was painful to watch, and they would have needed to win on defense. That isn't going to save you against the well balanced Thunder or Spurs, which is a much different team than the Grizz beat 2 years ago (without Gay btw).

sp1derm00
02-06-2013, 06:31 PM
If they could get Lowry too that would be a great deal for Memphis...seriously.

ZBo has to have a lot more value than Gay had.

Gay is young, Zbo is kinda old.

Deezy3
02-06-2013, 06:31 PM
As a Grizzlies fan, I do not believe one bit that we will trade Randolph. What I do believe though, is that we will and should use our trade exception of 7.5 million to acquire another good talent.

BuffsFan
02-06-2013, 06:49 PM
Zach Randolph for Pau Gasol. Reunite the Gasol brothers!

Keep3HEATSOnMe
02-06-2013, 06:52 PM
Pau Gasol is injured

Guppyfighter
02-06-2013, 06:52 PM
Pau is out for six weeks.

bucketss
02-06-2013, 06:54 PM
Yeah....

Memphis would shoot that down in a heartbeat.

we're talking about memphis here.

Guppyfighter
02-06-2013, 06:56 PM
we're talking about memphis here.
Stop it.

smith&wesson
02-06-2013, 07:01 PM
Didn't Perkins and Randolph have a fight?

perk sucks, he can be amnestied.

HouRealCoach
02-06-2013, 07:05 PM
Randolph for Gasol

kblo247
02-06-2013, 07:57 PM
Players have *****ed and moaned about lesser things.

The Domino effect seems to be true, but that doesn't mean the moves were wrong. It might mean the players didn't like it, but it doesn't mean it's wrong. The front office is doing their job, and the players should just shut up and do their's. That's always my opinion.
And the players opinion of we know more about basketball than Hollinger hasn't been proven wrong

Baller1
02-06-2013, 07:58 PM
Memphis is so ****ing dumb. They messed up a contender for literally no reason.

Verbal Christ
02-06-2013, 08:49 PM
I could see the rockets getting involved now that randolph is talking openly to the public. it now becomes a value situation, where before you could make argument for equal return in a trade scenario. this is when morey smells blood in the water.

Vinylman
02-06-2013, 08:56 PM
I could see the rockets getting involved now that randolph is talking openly to the public. it now becomes a value situation, where before you could make argument for equal return in a trade scenario. this is when morey smells blood in the water.

would that mess up your chances for D12 though?

from a basketball perspective it would be awesome but if it keeps you from making that D12 run i wouldn't do it.

Rivera
02-06-2013, 09:03 PM
While it's worth wondering just how good Gay is, it's become clear that the Grizzlies miss his ability to create shots and attack the rim. He didn't always do those things as frequently or efficiently as one would like, but Memphis is still adjusting to a roster that had featured Gay for years.

this part of basketball is soooo underrated now because of advanced stats people. i agree he wasnt efficient i agree that he should be more efficient. but someone to have the ball beat someone off the dribble and create for others or get to the rim is soooo underrated on psd it isnt even funny.

gay has a lot of negatives. but his ability to beat someone off the dribble and attack the rim cannot be quanified in any advanced stats because a defense breaks down and causes either openings for teammates or easier offensive rebounding oppurtunities because the defensive players left there assignments to cover the rim that rudy was attacking

Blitzbolt
02-06-2013, 09:31 PM
WOW this the media no way we trade ZBO and no Way ZBO will ask for a trade.

ohreally
02-06-2013, 09:57 PM
WOW this the media no way we trade ZBO and no Way ZBO will ask for a trade.


I figure about the same. But if Zach is barely touching the ball in the 4th, after trading Gay, I could see him being a bit pissed.

I'd like to see that Memphis-Nets--Denver trade if he does, unfathomably, get traded. Would be super to have him in Brooklyn.

--23--
02-06-2013, 10:17 PM
Memphis is so ****ing dumb. They messed up a contender for literally no reason.

+1 my exact thoughts

MiamiBoy77
02-06-2013, 10:44 PM
this is Moneyball all over again

koreancabbage
02-06-2013, 10:47 PM
It doesn't matter if it was a money move because they could've seriously competed with that team. Now it's all gone because they want to save money? Why build a team to win a ring if you're just going to give them huge contracts and trade them away?

like i said, they were one move away from really contending.

koreancabbage
02-06-2013, 10:50 PM
While it's worth wondering just how good Gay is, it's become clear that the Grizzlies miss his ability to create shots and attack the rim. He didn't always do those things as frequently or efficiently as one would like, but Memphis is still adjusting to a roster that had featured Gay for years.

this part of basketball is soooo underrated now because of advanced stats people. i agree he wasnt efficient i agree that he should be more efficient. but someone to have the ball beat someone off the dribble and create for others or get to the rim is soooo underrated on psd it isnt even funny.

gay has a lot of negatives. but his ability to beat someone off the dribble and attack the rim cannot be quanified in any advanced stats because a defense breaks down and causes either openings for teammates or easier offensive rebounding oppurtunities because the defensive players left there assignments to cover the rim that rudy was attacking

I think somewhere when it comes to stats of all the elite SFs, Gay takes the most shots with 5 sseconds left and the most with 9 seconds left. The Memphis team was misusing Gay and his abilities.

mzgrizz
02-06-2013, 11:11 PM
I don't know if Grizz fans like trading away Gay/Randolph but as someone outside looking in, why did the Grizz ruin the chance they had to advance in the playoffs this year? Just for money? For the fans, do you believe Conley/Gasol is your foundation and you could do without Gay/Randolph?

As a fan I'm pretty pissed off now. F'd up a good team. Memphis fans will freak out as the losses mount. Mo fo FO is reaping what they have sown and they want me to pay NOW for renewal. Really ????

mzgrizz
02-06-2013, 11:25 PM
Just read all of the posts. Thanks to the guys who are sympathetic to the Memphis fans who feel ****ed over. Can't imagine what Friday night v GSW will be like.

Deezy3
02-06-2013, 11:32 PM
As a fan I'm pretty pissed off now. F'd up a good team. Memphis fans will freak out as the losses mount. Mo fo FO is reaping what they have sown and they want me to pay NOW for renewal. Really ????

I'm pissed too, honestly.

ThaDubs
02-06-2013, 11:38 PM
It's Memphis' fault. Worst trade of the season by far. I think they really had a chance to win the WCF and they trade their best player for role-players. I feel terrible for Memphis fans.

SINCESTARBURY25
02-06-2013, 11:42 PM
Id take him on the knicks i love Amare but Randolph is younger and healthier. I expect him to go to Boston or La

TheBlackHole
02-07-2013, 12:05 AM
Dam, Memphis has really started a snowball now. Your a top team in your conference and you start to blow things up, I dont get it. I dont want to hear that nonsense that it was for financial reasons. Is this not what you spend years building a team for?? When players play well, they get a bigger contract, thats usually how things work in professional sports. Why spend time building a team, at some point you will have to give players raises when their contract is up. Are they just going to keep getting players and dumping them when their contract is up? Or give them a bigger salary after their contract, and then still dump them? Last I checked, you try and build good teams with an end goal of a championship, not just for ***** and giggles. Could have at least let this season ride out....

PatsSoxKnicks
02-07-2013, 12:09 AM
Does everyone forget that Memphis beat SA and took OKC to 7 games without Gay in 2010? Gay is overrated on this site. Yes, he has an ability to create his own shot but the horrible efficiency he does it at makes it not worth it. If he really made that big of a difference, don't you think he'd have a larger on/off +/- for his career?
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gayru01/on-off/

It's practically at 0.

You want to know the real difference in Memphis? It's Z-Bo not being the same player he was in 2010. I thought the guy would come back from last year's injuries strong but he's not been the same. In 10, he had a 55% TS%, and averaged 20-10. This year, he's more or less doing what he did after his injury last year. 15 ppg on a 51% TS%. Yes his rebounding has recovered but his scoring efficiency has not. He isn't the same beast he was in 2010. And THAT is the reason Memphis' offense hasn't been very good.

BTW, for all those saying Memphis offense is terrible without Gay, it was pretty bad with Gay too. Their Offensive Rating was still in the 20s and was in decline far before the traded Gay (it's been bad since after their hot start, right around December). The fact is Memphis wins with defense and it has the whole season.

Anyways, in regards to Z-Bo, if he's not the same player he was in 2010 and is not capable of playing that way anymore, why keep the core together? They won't go anywhere unless Z-Bo returns to his 2010 form. They were always at their best when they played inside-out. And if Z-Bo is on the decline, why keep a team that isn't going anywhere together? Marc and Conley are still young enough that they can go for a quick fix and hope to see Ed Davis develop so that they have a newer younger core. As for Gay, he has a horrible contract and why build your team around terrible contracts like that?

I think Memphis needs to figure out if Z-Bo is going to return to his 10 form when he was a 20-10 guy. They can't have him averaging 15 a night and expect to win. And he needs to get that 20 with the same efficiency that he was doing in 2010. Not Rudy Gay efficiency. If those days are indeed behind Z-Bo, then it does make sense to trade him.

PS- Memphis has been a .500 team pretty much since they started 18-6. And again, that was WAY before they traded Gay.

Cracka2HI!
02-07-2013, 12:10 AM
Memphis really screwed up. Looking at their bench that team is just a mess now. Who's gonna score? Teams can just really collapse on Z-Bo and Gasol now. They almost need to trade Z-Bo to restore the roster. Seems to be the plan anyway. Wroten should be playing more. Ed Davis doesn't seem like a good get considering they gave up their best scorer and can't score. Looks like he's only getting about 10 min a night. They really needed someone to replace Gay's scoring instead of a 4th big. It does seem like another trade is in the works. Sux for Grizz fans.

Mataro41
02-07-2013, 12:21 AM
ZBO Just wants to be a contender and then they take rudy away and i like its just feeling distrusted in the team

mzgrizz
02-07-2013, 12:46 AM
Dam, Memphis has really started a snowball now. Your a top team in your conference and you start to blow things up, I dont get it. I dont want to hear that nonsense that it was for financial reasons. Is this not what you spend years building a team for?? When players play well, they get a bigger contract, thats usually how things work in professional sports. Why spend time building a team, at some point you will have to give players raises when their contract is up. Are they just going to keep getting players and dumping them when their contract is up? Or give them a bigger salary after their contract, and then still dump them? Last I checked, you try and build good teams with an end goal of a championship, not just for ***** and giggles. Could have at least let this season ride out....
I am Sooooooooooooo with you. I thought the *******s should have paid the lux tax for 1 season and THEN figure out how to destroy our hops.......well, HOPE,too

THE MTL
02-07-2013, 12:54 AM
Grizzlies MESSED up! They should have kept the team together for one honest run at the championship. THey were under the luxury tax line with the earlier trade. They could have found a suitor in the summer

TheBlackHole
02-07-2013, 01:10 AM
I am Sooooooooooooo with you. I thought the *******s should have paid the lux tax for 1 season and THEN figure out how to destroy our hops.......well, HOPE,too

It must really suck having your contending team traded into dog ****, for that I am sorry.

TheBlackHole
02-07-2013, 01:13 AM
Now that the Grizzlies are done, I hear a group will try to buy them and move them to Sacremento to replace the Kings.

BKLYNpigeon
02-07-2013, 01:50 AM
If you had a Business and you were losing 10 million dollars a year owning it. would you cut costs?

This is "Memphis" were talking about, not LA or NY. this team. Memphis has a bad TV deal and does not sell out its arena. Small Market Teams cannot afford to go into Luxury Tax.

if Memphis has all the money in the world... Of course they would keep this team together..

LeperMessiah
02-07-2013, 02:07 AM
He'll probably get over it.

naps
02-07-2013, 02:30 AM
WTF are they doing seriously? They were looking scary and now their FO is blowing this beautiful thing up. I guess that's the Hollinger effect. SMDH...

TheBlackHole
02-07-2013, 02:34 AM
If you had a Business and you were losing 10 million dollars a year owning it. would you cut costs?

This is "Memphis" were talking about, not LA or NY. this team. Memphis has a bad TV deal and does not sell out its arena. Small Market Teams cannot afford to go into Luxury Tax.

if Memphis has all the money in the world... Of course they would keep this team together..

So, what you are saying is just because it is a smaller market, you would not pay out for better players to put a team that could compete for a title on the court? You sound like my assessment of Grizzlies management, that you would rather rebuild year after year, then try to win. Based off of what you are saying, what would be the point in even keeping a team in Memphis?

Well boys, looks like we might win the war, seems like the best time to go and surrender ourselves to the enemy...

TheBlackHole
02-07-2013, 02:36 AM
Cheap things aren't good, and good things aren't cheap.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 02:41 AM
so much overreaction on this thread, and in general with this trade.

Guppyfighter
02-07-2013, 02:44 AM
so much overreaction on this thread, and in general with this trade.

Yep.

This gives them flexibility to be a true title contender later on.

TheBlackHole
02-07-2013, 02:58 AM
Yep.

This gives them flexibility to be a true title contender later on.

Well, isn't that kind of the rationale of every team that tries to save money? But when you have a good team that is competing at the top of their conference, what sense does it make to get rid of one of your best players? And now possibly might lose another one. If you want to contend, you are going to have to pay somebody. Its only reasonable.

Sadds The Gr8
02-07-2013, 03:06 AM
I knew they'd be ****ed when they kept extending everybody and their mothers on that roster.

Cracka2HI!
02-07-2013, 03:08 AM
so much overreaction on this thread, and in general with this trade.
Not sure. They don't look like contender anymore. I'm not sure why they didn't find a 4th team to swap Davis to for a scorer. Prince and a 10 minute a game big man probably wasn't a good deal. If can see them shipping Randolph too. If I was a Grizz fan I'd be pissed.

FOXHOUND
02-07-2013, 03:33 AM
The Gay trade was clearly made because the new ownership group, complete with Hollinger and in general being very advanced stat favorable, didn't value Gay or at least at the money he was making thanks to the previous group.

What I don't get about the advanced stat crowd is they make it sound like Gay has shot 40% his entire career. Like in just the 2010-11 season he didn't score 19.8 PPG with a .471/.396/.804 shooting line before he got hurt. Like he hasn't been excellent in the clutch. Like he doesn't play underrated defense (did you see that block and some of the stellar denies of the drive he had vs LeBron in the Heat-Raptor game?). If you look at his career he's been pretty efficient, except for this year.

Now, I do understand why Memphis made this trade. After the playoff run without Gay the team shifted towards the big men as the focal point, and even last year Gay's play started to tail off. He became badly misused, and no longer fit with what Memphis wanted to do. They wanted a SF more like Battier, and that's exactly what they get in Prince. As someone said earlier though, Zach hasn't been the same since his injuries. He hasn't been the WCF Zach at all, and if that continues this trade will be a disaster.

While it's an incredibly small sample size Gay is already getting back to his normal production and efficiency in Toronto now that he's being allowed to play to his strengths again, although he had a rough shooting game tonight.

I do still think this trade was a win for all three teams, if you look at it from their perspective. The worst case for Memphis is Zach remains in his post injury form, which is probably likely, and in that case they ship him out for whatever they can get and start a quick rebuild around Gasol, Conley, Davis, Wroten and whatever. They were never going to win with Gay, he just didn't fit and their offense was too messy trying to get all of those guys involved with one ball. How can everyone forget that last year that team blew a game 7 at home vs the Clippers entire bench in the 4th quarter?

The other aspect is the domino effect that some people have mentioned here. While the fans in Memphis, the coach and a large chunk, if not all, of the players are upset right now they may get over it if they understand the angle the new front office is taking. Unfortunately it may not work like that, and it may just end up alienating the guys like Gasol and Conley that they want to build around.

Let's not forget that not too long ago Marc's brother requested a trade out of Memphis because he was unhappy with their direction and lack of commitment to winning. Don't assume that if this does lead to Zach requesting a trade that Marc won't start feeling the same, and could end up consulting his brother Pau who will probably give him advice that will make Memphis fans vomit. And if that happens, wouldn't Conley be next?

I understand the angle, but this could be a disaster for Hollinger's start.

Vancity
02-07-2013, 06:29 AM
I think most people are upset about the gay trade because of the speights deal.
Offloading those bench players and a 1st when in reality those players should net you a contending teams protected 20 say 1st is what is ridiculous.

When Memphis could of traded those players for the equivalent of a oladipo, kabongo, Tim hardaway jr, trey burke all with cheap rookie scale contracts. Then made a run this year and trade gay in the offseason for likely the same or traded gay and kept mayo.

They need to move Arthur or Davis simply put.
Davis, a 1st Speights, Ellington, Selby mightve been enough to secure Josh Smith/ Millsap/ Cousins and others mentioned as movable. They arent maximizing the return on their assets and that is what is frustrating. In the end, they may as well blow it up. This team wont win the championship now. So what gives. Trade Randolph for more promising talent.

Raptors step up into mediocrity, Grizzlies step down. Both team at similar level now.

P.S. if Memphis has a poor tv deal and average ticket sales, Why did the team ever go to Memphis?
This is why more than ever the NBA needs a relegation league. That way all the smaller-markets can have the pleasure of middling success and decades of average to above-average teams.

Chronz
02-07-2013, 12:27 PM
Not sure. They don't look like contender anymore. I'm not sure why they didn't find a 4th team to swap Davis to for a scorer. Prince and a 10 minute a game big man probably wasn't a good deal. If can see them shipping Randolph too. If I was a Grizz fan I'd be pissed.

Your overreacting

They didn't look like much of a contender before either. And that was off a much larger sample size than the one your using to gauge them now.

So whatever they become now, at least they set themselves up to get better in the long term.

Chronz
02-07-2013, 12:33 PM
I think most people are upset about the gay trade because of the speights deal.
Offloading those bench players and a 1st when in reality those players should net you a contending teams protected 20 say 1st is what is ridiculous.

When Memphis could of traded those players for the equivalent of a oladipo, kabongo, Tim hardaway jr, trey burke all with cheap rookie scale contracts. Then made a run this year and trade gay in the offseason for likely the same or traded gay and kept mayo.

They need to move Arthur or Davis simply put.
Davis, a 1st Speights, Ellington, Selby mightve been enough to secure Josh Smith/ Millsap/ Cousins and others mentioned as movable. They arent maximizing the return on their assets and that is what is frustrating. In the end, they may as well blow it up. This team wont win the championship now. So what gives. Trade Randolph for more promising talent.

Raptors step up into mediocrity, Grizzlies step down. Both team at similar level now.
Thats what proper criticism looks like. Agreed on the Speights deal, they made that move too soon. I have a feeling they were intent on keeping Gay after that deal but either changed their minds when he expressed his displeasure or they got the call for the offer. Either way, the Speights deal should have been held off for alot longer.


P.S. if Memphis has a poor tv deal and average ticket sales, Why did the team ever go to Memphis?
This is why more than ever the NBA needs a relegation league. That way all the smaller-markets can have the pleasure of middling success and decades of average to above-average teams.
New CBA makes it possible for small market teams to profit if the big market teams are overspending. So long as you stay under the luxury tax, you can profit. And as the tax gets more punitive, you'll see even big markets reign in their wallets.

Building a contender without going over the luxury tax isn't impossible and its going to get easier as less teams are willing to go above it. The key is not having contracts like Gay's, where your paying superstar money to a guy who puts up average production.

koreancabbage
02-07-2013, 02:01 PM
Yep.

This gives them flexibility to be a true title contender later on.

ya right. that is totally the most BS and overrated statement ever. they could try but that might be 10 years down the road - to get the calibre of players they had/have in the future is pretty slim.

GodsSon
02-07-2013, 02:12 PM
Sucks to be a Grizz fan right now.

Chronz
02-07-2013, 02:12 PM
ya right. that is totally the most BS and overrated statement ever. they could try but that might be 10 years down the road - to get the calibre of players they had/have in the future is pretty slim.

Couldn't be any slimmer than their chances of winning this year and paying money they can't afford. Its a no brainer if you look at it that way

valade16
02-07-2013, 02:14 PM
I just wanted to say in the original thread about the Gay trade I expressed concern that the Grizzlies would have no one capable of driving or creating their own shot now; which looks to be exactly what happened.

Chronz
02-07-2013, 06:30 PM
What I don't get about the advanced stat crowd is they make it sound like Gay has shot 40% his entire career. Like in just the 2010-11 season he didn't score 19.8 PPG with a .471/.396/.804 shooting line before he got hurt. Like he hasn't been excellent in the clutch. Like he doesn't play underrated defense (did you see that block and some of the stellar denies of the drive he had vs LeBron in the Heat-Raptor game?). If you look at his career he's been pretty efficient, except for this year.
They definitely sold low, prolly took the teams decent play with him struggling as a sign that they could sustain his departure. We'll see how much changes.


Now, I do understand why Memphis made this trade. After the playoff run without Gay the team shifted towards the big men as the focal point, and even last year Gay's play started to tail off. He became badly misused, and no longer fit with what Memphis wanted to do. They wanted a SF more like Battier, and that's exactly what they get in Prince. As someone said earlier though, Zach hasn't been the same since his injuries. He hasn't been the WCF Zach at all, and if that continues this trade will be a disaster.
Doubtful ANYONE in the organization expects Z-Bo to return to form, dont see how the trades success is contingent on that.

beasted86
02-07-2013, 06:37 PM
This whole Memphis Grizzlies situation is eerily similar to the Miami Marlins situation. The only difference is the Grizzlies are on pace to make the playoffs.

But in the end I suspect this is the result of a cheapskate owner who had no business buying the Grizzlies last summer and he will fully break up the team and drive away fans.

mzgrizz
02-08-2013, 12:02 AM
Now that the Grizzlies are done, I hear a group will try to buy them and move them to Sacremento to replace the Kings.

Well, it is near impossible for them to do that. The local owners have first right of refusal as well as multiple legal barriers to moving them for the next 15 years. All agreed upon with the sale to Pera this year.
Got to admit I got a little paranoid about that, but it's virtually impossible.

Cracka2HI!
02-08-2013, 03:19 AM
Your overreacting

They didn't look like much of a contender before either. And that was off a much larger sample size than the one your using to gauge them now.

So whatever they become now, at least they set themselves up to get better in the long term.

I know your boy Hollinger has a plan and I don't doubt that it will pay off. As a "fan" there is no way I am overreacting. Grizz fans are pissed man. Advanced stats in relation to the budget mean nothing in the now. This is the type of thing where dummy stats matter. They can't score and they traded their leading scorer. Now they are losing. I totally agree with you that Gay is overpaid. Ever see me say I wanted him on the Clipps at that number? That said this trade will NOT help them sell tickets in the short term or anytime soon.

Maybe contender was the wrong word but they were without doubt a top 5 seed with a chance to make noise. Do you remember how exciting the playoffs were last year and especially 06? The main reason I'd be PISSED is that I think the FO should have given the fans this year. Especially after the Speights trade. They obviously have a plan and selling high on Gay and Randolph is smart, but not at the expense of a playoff season.

Cracka2HI!
02-08-2013, 03:21 AM
I think I'm also upset because the Clippers lost their best rival IMO. I loved watching the Clippers play the Grizzlies.

Guppyfighter
02-08-2013, 03:34 AM
You guys got a new rival. Golden State.

PatsSoxKnicks
02-08-2013, 03:46 AM
Memphis was around 20th in Offensive Rating before they traded Gay so lets not make it seem like they ruined a potent offense or anything. Their offense was kinda sucking even with Gay.

And as I said earlier, they started 18-6 and were basically playing .500 ball since then. Memphis' play was declining far before they traded Gay. And seeing as how Z-Bo is not the same post injury, they never really had a chance to do any damage in the playoffs. When Memphis was at their best, in the playoffs, they played through their bigs. But that was a pre-injury Z-Bo. At their best, Memphis offense never ran through Gay.

mgsports
02-08-2013, 10:41 AM
To the Magic with Gortat to Grizzles and O'Quinn/Nicholson to Suns?

koreancabbage
02-08-2013, 10:54 AM
Couldn't be any slimmer than their chances of winning this year and paying money they can't afford. Its a no brainer if you look at it that way

maybe, but their chances are better now than ever. they are probably one piece away from really really contending i.e. probably a player like Iggy, would bring them over the top- a player who excels in the open court, and is a willing passer and doesn't need the ball much.

talent wise, its a hit. but maybe the GM doens't believe they can win it all with the current roster and the money they are paying them right now. but i'm saying its that gathering all the talent they have now won't be as easy to gather them in the future.

waveycrockett
02-08-2013, 11:15 AM
A lot of it obviously was money. They have a lot of big long-term contracts. They just got rid of their worst for sure. I think a lot of it was looking long term. They pretty much were maxed out in terms of what they could achieve with what they had. They weren't going to have good draft picks, they weren't going to have money to spend and they weren't winning a championship any time soon.

I'd understand why Grizz fans could be upset, but I still think these moves could, and probably will, pay off down the road. They were about to be Atlanta Hawks West with how their roster was set up. This gives them a lot more flexibility.

I'm lower on Gay, especially how he was playing this year, than it seems like a lot of people are. I think they've done fine on their past two trades. Arthur is capable of filling in for Speights, and shedding his salary was a good move. Selby and Ellington aren't really key players on any contending team. I've said time after time why I like the Gay trade...especially long-term.

Trading ZBo will be a lot more iffy. He's far more valuable to that team, or really to any team. That really will depend on what they get back and truly will dictate if they have a shot to win a playoff series, or even two, this year or not.

I believe they very much could have especially with the first 2 months of the season as an indication. They had all the pieces just needed to get Gay to play with more consistency.

waveycrockett
02-08-2013, 11:18 AM
Couldn't be any slimmer than their chances of winning this year and paying money they can't afford. Its a no brainer if you look at it that way

They had a top tier team this year before the rumors started circulating. Big mistake. Look at Dallas from 2 years ago,

C_Mund
02-08-2013, 11:33 AM
A lot of it obviously was money. They have a lot of big long-term contracts. They just got rid of their worst for sure. I think a lot of it was looking long term. They pretty much were maxed out in terms of what they could achieve with what they had. They weren't going to have good draft picks, they weren't going to have money to spend and they weren't winning a championship any time soon.

I'd understand why Grizz fans could be upset, but I still think these moves could, and probably will, pay off down the road. They were about to be Atlanta Hawks West with how their roster was set up. This gives them a lot more flexibility.

I'm lower on Gay, especially how he was playing this year, than it seems like a lot of people are. I think they've done fine on their past two trades. Arthur is capable of filling in for Speights, and shedding his salary was a good move. Selby and Ellington aren't really key players on any contending team. I've said time after time why I like the Gay trade...especially long-term.

Trading ZBo will be a lot more iffy. He's far more valuable to that team, or really to any team. That really will depend on what they get back and truly will dictate if they have a shot to win a playoff series, or even two, this year or not.

In the West (or, I guess the NBA in general) you compete against dynamo teams and superstars. If you have a couple years to do so, why not just do it? Who cares about 2-3 years of overspending? You don't decide to rebuild when you're the best defensive team in the NBA and have a shot at beating anybody in a 7-game series. I really liked that Memphis team but I hope they end up in the lottery because their ownership doesn't deserve to save money and still be competitive.

.....and this is coming from a Raps fan. I just feel like if we managed to make the playoffs this year, upset a team to somehow make the 2'nd round.... then decided that Gay makes too much money and isn't a "long-term" solution, I'd stop rooting for that team. The fans deserved one more run and there's no reason to blow that team up right before the all-star break.

C_Mund
02-08-2013, 11:43 AM
Couldn't be any slimmer than their chances of winning this year and paying money they can't afford. Its a no brainer if you look at it that way

I don't know, there's got to be some accountability to the fans that pay to watch the team. Grizz were/are good, there's no reason to believe that the 2nd or 3rd round was out of the question. With the talent they have (even if they blow it up and keep one or two pieces) they won't sniff the top 4 picks in the lottery any time soon so they've basically thrown Marc's best years out the window.

That's just how I see it. I think if you're a good team you gotta have faith in what you've accomplished, you don't see what happens one/two years and just give up. The NBA is becoming such a financially-motivated/star-run/predictable league that it blows my mind. I know EVERY league is financially motivated, but this league generates SO much revenue, yet nobody is ever content to just go out and play ball. If they ship out Randolph I'll never root for the Grizzlies again because unless they land the #1 pick, they won't even try to win.

Sly Guy
02-08-2013, 12:56 PM
If Z-bo ends up in Toronto, I'm going to laugh so freaking hard.

this. Because who would have thought the value of the memphis roster was the toronto one? lol.

xRipCity
02-08-2013, 01:29 PM
Trading Z-Bo would be best for them in the long run, I believe.

But I stopped trusting Chad Ford a long time ago.

KingPosey
02-08-2013, 01:49 PM
I'm gonna laugh after all this blows up in their and Hollingers face. They won't be this close again for a while, if at all, and they're blowing it IMO. Whether its about money or advanced stats, they're ****ing up

Chronz
02-08-2013, 02:20 PM
They had a top tier team this year before the rumors started circulating. Big mistake. Look at Dallas from 2 years ago,

Maybe, but they didn't think they were as good as you seem to think. I agree with them, pointing to Dallas is a decent point but so is pointing to alot of other teams who have played at an uninspired level who go on to lose. Looking at history, what do you think is more likely, that this was another also-ran core (like their stats suggested) or one that had a few players ready to blow up in the playoffs?

Wade n Fade
02-08-2013, 04:26 PM
Look at what Hollinger has done. Memphis was operating under one of the cheapest ticket prices in the NBA. They had huge contracts with Zebo and Rudy Gay. Now, they got nothing from the Raptors for Rudy Gay. From top 4 seed in the West to a non-playoff team. You have a decent PG, had a good SF, and two great bigs. Now, they are destroying the entire core. Memphis fans must be irrate right now?

D-Leethal
02-08-2013, 04:43 PM
Maybe, but they didn't think they were as good as you seem to think. I agree with them, pointing to Dallas is a decent point but so is pointing to alot of other teams who have played at an uninspired level who go on to lose. Looking at history, what do you think is more likely, that this was another also-ran core (like their stats suggested) or one that had a few players ready to blow up in the playoffs?

They were one tweak away from being a bonafide contender, if they weren't already. They have already taken the Spurs out of the playoffs in 2011 with pretty much equal casts, and took the both Clips (last year) and OKC (2011) to game 7 in the playoffs. They have already proven they can play with the big boys of the West come playoff time. I see no reason their chances weren't every bit as good as the Clips this year.

You are acting like its easy to trade away your main pieces, rebuild and get back to being a 50+ win team that is one tweak away from being a top 3 contender in all of the NBA. Its not like they have 23 yr old studs waiting in the wings, they are a win now team trading away veteran, win now players.

Is every team that isn't a top 2 or 3 contender supposed to just blow it up if they aren't a unanimous top 3 favorite to win it all? Thats the mentality you want your team to take? To just play the percentages? Look at Duncans injury, what happens if Blake/CP3 go down again. Grizz were as close as anyone to coming out of the West if they got hot in the playoffs.

Mavs aren't the only example of a dark horse making a DEEP run in recent history, 2010 C's made the finals, 2012 C's were a 1 quarter away from doing it again, 2006 Heat won it all as a darkhorse.

Only stat geeks would support these awful moves.

Blitzbolt
02-08-2013, 05:09 PM
The Grizz FO said they are getting calls about ZBO but they won't trade him.

Ronald Tillery: Griz continue to field trade calls for Zach Randolph but have informed teams that they aren’t interested in moving the All Star forward Twitter @CAGrizBlog

Ronald Tillery: ZBo was in trade talks earlier this season. Team brass told ZBo yesterday that he won’t be moved this season.Focus is on rallying the troops Twitter @CAGrizBlog

The Grizzlies right now have some chemistry issues is not only Rudy Gay who they traded Hamed Haddai,JoshSelby,Wayne Ellintong,Maresse Spheiths.That's 5 players all traded in a week and replace them with cheap players who are kind of the same.

So as a Grizz fan I'm really mad about the timing of both trades why do they trade them away so early??It will take some time but I think grizz will get it together I don't blame outsiders saying that we are done because it looks bad.

KnicksorBust
02-08-2013, 08:00 PM
They were one tweak away from being a bonafide contender, if they weren't already. They have already taken the Spurs out of the playoffs in 2011 with pretty much equal casts, and took the both Clips (last year) and OKC (2011) to game 7 in the playoffs. They have already proven they can play with the big boys of the West come playoff time. I see no reason their chances weren't every bit as good as the Clips this year.

You are acting like its easy to trade away your main pieces, rebuild and get back to being a 50+ win team that is one tweak away from being a top 3 contender in all of the NBA. Its not like they have 23 yr old studs waiting in the wings, they are a win now team trading away veteran, win now players.

Is every team that isn't a top 2 or 3 contender supposed to just blow it up if they aren't a unanimous top 3 favorite to win it all? Thats the mentality you want your team to take? To just play the percentages? Look at Duncans injury, what happens if Blake/CP3 go down again. Grizz were as close as anyone to coming out of the West if they got hot in the playoffs.

Mavs aren't the only example of a dark horse making a DEEP run in recent history, 2010 C's made the finals, 2012 C's were a 1 quarter away from doing it again, 2006 Heat won it all as a darkhorse.

Only stat geeks would support these awful moves.

Spot-on minus the baiting comment at the end.

eternal slumber
02-08-2013, 08:46 PM
looks like Z-Bo will stay with Memphis.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/02/grizzlies-tell-randolph-he-wont-be-moved.html

KnicksorBust
02-08-2013, 09:24 PM
looks like Z-Bo will stay with Memphis.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/02/grizzlies-tell-randolph-he-wont-be-moved.html

Doesn't matter they ruined their season when they traded Gay.

mzgrizz
02-08-2013, 10:17 PM
No. Not really. Rudy needed a visa and that's not a charge card. Maybe he can be the world beater for Toronto but he wasn't that here.

KnicksorBust
02-08-2013, 10:49 PM
So Tayshaun Prince was an upgrade?

OceanSpray
02-08-2013, 11:01 PM
1-4 since Rudy Gay's trade... Good move Memphis!

mjt20mik
02-08-2013, 11:17 PM
Bargnani for Zbo!

Cracka2HI!
02-08-2013, 11:39 PM
If Memphis keeps Z-Bo they might be able to turn it around this year. The big problem I have with the Rudy Gay trade is they got the wrong kind of value. Ed Davis has good trade value. They got a good piece but with the minutes he's getting he's nearly worthless. Prince is a big downgrade from Rudy so that's what they got. If they can somehow find a trade for Ed Davis for a scorer...maybe someone like Danny Williams they might be able to get back on tract.

RipCity32
02-08-2013, 11:43 PM
They might as well just trade Z Bo now.They aren't contenders anymore and he's not going to get any younger.

OceanSpray
02-08-2013, 11:47 PM
Z-Bo for Josh Smith. What's your pick guys?

Chronz
02-09-2013, 12:52 AM
They were one tweak away from being a bonafide contender, if they weren't already. They have already taken the Spurs out of the playoffs in 2011 with pretty much equal casts, and took the both Clips (last year) and OKC (2011) to game 7 in the playoffs. They have already proven they can play with the big boys of the West come playoff time. I see no reason their chances weren't every bit as good as the Clips this year.
LOL thanks for the history lesson but Im well versed in recent playoff lore. In spite of that impressive analysis (including both the team and the year they played them in is quite impressive to say the least), Im not swayed. I fail to see how mentioning G.7 losses to teams that have improved leaps and bounds more than you since then is an accomplishment.

In the Clippers case its especially appalling when you consider they lost with the healthier team and HCA. Then its compounded by a vastly superior SRS this season, add it all up and I see absolutely no reason to put them in the tier you suggest.



You are acting like its easy to trade away your main pieces, rebuild and get back to being a 50+ win team that is one tweak away from being a top 3 contender in all of the NBA. Its not like they have 23 yr old studs waiting in the wings, they are a win now team trading away veteran, win now players.
I dont view it that way, they were a win now team that was locked into a core that had proven to be less than 2nd rate. I dont know what else to tell you, other than I would want to retool as well,


Is every team that isn't a top 2 or 3 contender supposed to just blow it up if they aren't a unanimous top 3 favorite to win it all?
Real life doesn't operate under absolutes, how I approach a team situation depends on more than just 1 variable, its salary structure changes things quite abit.


Thats the mentality you want your team to take? To just play the percentages? Look at Duncans injury, what happens if Blake/CP3 go down again. Grizz were as close as anyone to coming out of the West if they got hot in the playoffs.
Thats why we differ, I wouldnt want my team to base its decisions on the chance that an injury might happen to other teams.


Mavs aren't the only example of a dark horse making a DEEP run in recent history, 2010 C's made the finals, 2012 C's were a 1 quarter away from doing it again, 2006 Heat won it all as a darkhorse.
Strawman argument, nobody said they were the only example of anything, what was said was that for every example you list, you can name more for situations of them failing. Thats where odds come from guy.


Only stat geeks would support these awful moves.
I disagree but more importantly, thats not exactly a diss nowadays. If my team is going to make an unpopular decision, I would rather it be based on objective rationale

Chronz
02-09-2013, 12:58 AM
So Tayshaun Prince was an upgrade?
Did someone actually say that?

KnicksorBust
02-09-2013, 01:01 AM
Did someone actually say that?

The question was step 1 in a 3 step process toward an admission that trading Gay was mistake.

Chronz
02-09-2013, 01:17 AM
The question was step 1 in a 3 step process toward an admission that trading Gay was mistake.
You lost me

hugepatsfan
02-09-2013, 11:26 AM
They don't have any perimeter scorers on that team. All they have on the wing is cutters and spot up shooters. Ed Davis is a great young piece, but as the 3rd big behind Z-Bo and Gasol his value isn't being maximized. If the Gay trade is step 1 in a plan, then fine. But they made themselves a worse basketball team by a good bit IMO and they're going to have to make more moves if they want to be contenders or even close.

Blitzbolt
02-09-2013, 11:46 AM
The Grizz traded 5 players in one week so yea they have chemistry issues right now but I still like the Rudy Trade we just have to wait the season is not over yet.

The Grizz will use the $10 Million Dollar Trade Exception to get another playmaker so the season is not over just yet.

Hangtime
02-09-2013, 02:49 PM
I saw the Grizz as being similar to the Atlanta Hawks. An annual playoff contender with some solid players that would never represent the western conference. They just didn't have the type of player that's needed to make crucial 4th quarter plays in tight games in the playoffs. Every true contender needs that guy. Gay was never going to improve in that system. Randolph is not the guy he was 2 years ago. Conley is a decent point guard but look at the competition at his position he faces in the west. If you are content with playoff appearances and second round exits then this was the team for the job. They are exactly where they were before and after this trade, an early exit in the second or first round.

beasted86
02-09-2013, 03:35 PM
I've always said Mike Conley was the problem, and not Gay, Randolph or Gasol. But fans for whatever reason think he's a good player. IMO he's way too mediocre and inconsistent. Jack of all trades... good at none.

Blitzbolt
02-09-2013, 04:02 PM
I've always said Mike Conley was the problem, and not Gay, Randolph or Gasol. But fans for whatever reason think he's a good player. IMO he's way too mediocre and inconsistent. Jack of all trades... good at none.You know why alot of Grizz fans love Conley go look at his contract he is getting underpaid for what he does.While the others are getting paid max money.

mzgrizz
02-09-2013, 04:17 PM
Uh. ZBo is staying this year. When I get to my PC I'll post the article. Per the consigliere Levien.

USCtoOAKRtoLAL
02-09-2013, 05:27 PM
Send ZBO to LA, in return we send PAU Gasol back to Memphis to play with his brother! We need a dominate offensive rebounder, whether its Dwights injury or the system he's grabbing enough offensive rebounds to keep our possessions alive! And for Memphis they'll have to Geneticially mutated spainiards. Win Win for both club

beasted86
02-09-2013, 05:29 PM
You know why alot of Grizz fans love Conley go look at his contract he is getting underpaid for what he does.While the others are getting paid max money.

No, he's not underpaid, he probably makes an exact amount of what he is worth. If Conley is underpaid, what does that make Raymond Felton, Ramon Sessions, and Jarrett Jack? Super-underpaid?

Conley has outlasted both Lowry and Vasquez on Memphis, and both of those guys were traded away and make less money and are putting up comparable or better production on other teams right now.

Blitzbolt
02-09-2013, 05:46 PM
No, he's not underpaid, he probably makes an exact amount of what he is worth. If Conley is underpaid, what does that make Raymond Felton, Ramon Sessions, and Jarrett Jack? Super-underpaid?

Conley has outlasted both Lowry and Vasquez on Memphis, and both of those guys were traded away and make less money and are putting up comparable or better production on other teams right now.

If you know the Grizzlies you know why Vasquez and Lowry got traded coach Lionel Hollins LOVES defense and wants the point guard to control the game and pass it down low to the big guys.

So Conley is not the issue he is just doing what the coach tells him to do.

mzgrizz
02-09-2013, 08:16 PM
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2013/feb/08/grizzlies-say-they-wont-trade-all-star-forward/

Give it up........at least for this year

beasted86
02-09-2013, 10:03 PM
If you know the Grizzlies you know why Vasquez and Lowry got traded coach Lionel Hollins LOVES defense and wants the point guard to control the game and pass it down low to the big guys.

So Conley is not the issue he is just doing what the coach tells him to do.

Okay, I get that... but Conley is not a great defender. He reminds me of Mario Chalmers where he is very solid, but when listing the top 5 defensive PGs he's nowhere to be found.

He is not a great passer, not a great shooter, not very athletic, not great at getting to the FT line. Conley is spectacular at nothing... or rather, spectacular at being unspectacular. I feel like Conley is what is holding the team back to be honest. I get that Rudy Gay was expendable if you had an elite PG, but you don't. Conley will never be an all-star PG, Randolph is getting older, and Gasol is not realistically a #2 scoring option... so where does that leave you?

I'm not saying the Grizz need a top 3 PG, but even a lesser name... like if you swapped out Conley with Jrue Holiday the Grizzlies would be a whole lot better.

Verbal Christ
02-09-2013, 10:04 PM
you needed a PC to post a link? LOL c'mon now. sounds like you are emotionally invested with zbo, hopefully he doesnt get traded, but if he keeps blabbing negative things ala kyle lowry, what is the team left to do?

mzgrizz
02-09-2013, 10:09 PM
you needed a PC to post a link? LOL c'mon now. sounds like you are emotionally invested with zbo, hopefully he doesnt get traded, but if he keeps blabbing negative things ala kyle lowry, what is the team left to do?

Read the link bro......so I'm challenged with the iPhone for linking articles smh
Give me a hard time for trying to explain he's OFF THE TABLE right now and to provide the link from the paper

Cracka2HI!
02-09-2013, 10:48 PM
I would never bother to post a link on my phone. It may be easy but I don't care to learn to do it. Some of us aren't so tech savvy. Z-Bo staying is good news for Grizz fans. The team still has a chance of clicking and turning it around this season. I actually thought it was a good trade at the time.

Cracka2HI!
02-09-2013, 10:51 PM
They don't have any perimeter scorers on that team. All they have on the wing is cutters and spot up shooters. Ed Davis is a great young piece, but as the 3rd big behind Z-Bo and Gasol his value isn't being maximized. If the Gay trade is step 1 in a plan, then fine. But they made themselves a worse basketball team by a good bit IMO and they're going to have to make more moves if they want to be contenders or even close.In hindsight this is my problem with the trade. Ed Davis is a great piece, but it looks like he's actually being as the 4th big behind Darrell Arthur. A player getting 10 minutes a night wasn't worth the downgrade of Prince from Gay. They really needed a scorer and with their 2 best players being bigs it made no sense for the most valuable piece in the trade for them to be a big....unless they were going to do a full rebuild and move Z-Bo.

mzgrizz
02-09-2013, 11:56 PM
I would never bother to post a link on my phone. It may be easy but I don't care to learn to do it. Some of us aren't so tech savvy. Z-Bo staying is good news for Grizz fans. The team still has a chance of clicking and turning it around this season. I actually thought it was a good trade at the time.

Thanks Cracka........hope you are doing ok......glad your guys are getting well. Having injuries really sucks worse than trading out your life blood...............uh, not really. We looked really good last night and I think they can put together as good a run as we would have had with the departed

mzgrizz
02-09-2013, 11:59 PM
In hindsight this is my problem with the trade. Ed Davis is a great piece, but it looks like he's actually being as the 4th big behind Darrell Arthur. A player getting 10 minutes a night wasn't worth the downgrade of Prince from Gay. They really needed a scorer and with their 2 best players being bigs it made no sense for the most valuable piece in the trade for them to be a big....unless they were going to do a full rebuild and move Z-Bo.

They may have been planning a ZBo trade but ran into a brick wall of opposition in the city. Not a huge lot of tears shed for Gay personally around here, but when they started making it known they were looking at offers for ZBo; the **** hit the fan and they started backpeddling. Hence, Davis being a 4th wheel right now. And why Speights was moved on.

Cracka2HI!
02-10-2013, 01:25 AM
It sucks that neither team is what is was to start the season. Our chemistry which was so great has been ruined by injuries. I'm worried about CP3. He came back but looked like crap. Israel Gutierrez said he is the Superstar who is most affected by injury and he may be right. You guys trading Gay seems to have backfired but I think both teams can get back on tract!

Cracka2HI!
02-10-2013, 01:27 AM
They may have been planning a ZBo trade but ran into a brick wall of opposition in the city. Not a huge lot of tears shed for Gay personally around here, but when they started making it known they were looking at offers for ZBo; the **** hit the fan and they started backpeddling. Hence, Davis being a 4th wheel right now. And why Speights was moved on.

What do you think of addition of Ed Davis? I just think it's a total waste of value on your roster.

mzgrizz
02-10-2013, 02:25 AM
[QUOTE=Cracka2HI!;25352641]It sucks that neither team is what is was to start the season. Our chemistry which was so great has been ruined by injuries. I'm worried about CP3. He came back but looked like crap. Israel Gutierrez said he is the Superstar who is most affected by injury and he may be right. You guys trading Gay seems to have backfired but I think both teams can get back on tract![/QUOTE

Yes. Both our teams started like a house afire but you know it's going to burn out. So you go slow and steady and plod along resting major players major minutes like Pop does for the Spurs and they keep building wins over and over. CP3 does seen to be injury prone. But he does give you all he's got when he goes back on the court. ZBo and Marc looked fired up last night so we'll see how they do. Sunday games usually suck for us.

mzgrizz
02-10-2013, 02:28 AM
What do you think of addition of Ed Davis? I just think it's a total waste of value on your roster.

No. He'll be useful when he can learn a lot of plays. His position is probably the hardest to do IMO.
He also is a ringer for Ren which still makes my heart ache. He'll be a contributor by playoff time. And I hate to say it out loud. But Darrell Arthur is no stranger to injuries.

MrfadeawayJB
02-10-2013, 01:56 PM
No, he's not underpaid, he probably makes an exact amount of what he is worth. If Conley is underpaid, what does that make Raymond Felton, Ramon Sessions, and Jarrett Jack? Super-underpaid?

Conley has outlasted both Lowry and Vasquez on Memphis, and both of those guys were traded away and make less money and are putting up comparable or better production on other teams right now.

You obviously have never watched the grizz closely. Conley is the most important player on the team. Just watch how the grizz play without Conley, they look totally lost and out of sync

Verbal Christ
02-10-2013, 03:20 PM
wow, SMH at the snippy remarks regarding one of the easiest things to do with any smartphone. whatever. oh and yea local newspapers always report the facts dont they. alrighty then have a nice life.

Losoway
02-10-2013, 03:39 PM
memphis should have spent the extra money. the grizzles now look terrible .

mzgrizz
02-10-2013, 08:40 PM
wow, SMH at the snippy remarks regarding one of the easiest things to do with any smartphone. whatever. oh and yea local newspapers always report the facts dont they. alrighty then have a nice life.

Talk about snippy. My life is great.

mzgrizz
02-10-2013, 08:41 PM
memphis should have spent the extra money. the grizzles now look terrible .

Really ? That 16 point lead is turrible