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DumDum
02-06-2013, 02:19 AM
I think people romanticize how good Derrick Rose actually is. He definitely is a great player, being the only person other than Lebron to win MVP in the last 4 years, but he’s not as good as people are making him out to be, in my possibly delusional opinion. He’s got a great team behind him who are fully capable of standing on their own. The return of Derrick Rose isn’t going to shake the NBA and turn it on its head. It’s a momentous occasion considering the severity of his injury, but he’s just another really good player. People are making him out to be the best players ever because he got MVP that year. Granted, that is no small feat, but he is just not THAT good. He’s great, have I mind you, but he is NOT the savior of the bulls franchise. They’ve already got a solid team. D-Rose is simply a fundamental piece in the puzzle. The bulls can win the championship if that whole team just plays their hearts out, NOT because D-Rose is on the floor. Again, I think D-Rose is a great player: fast, distributes, clutch shooting, etc. It just bothers me that people exaggerate and romanticize about how good he really is

CubsBullsBucs
02-06-2013, 02:25 AM
cant wait till the spring themed oreos come out with the yellow cream in middle.... yum!

mightybosstone
02-06-2013, 02:25 AM
Rose is extremely talented, but the OP hit the nail on the head, IMO. And news flash to Bulls fans: Rose did not deserve his MVP. There were easily at least 2-3 more deserving players, and his award will go down as one of the weakest MVPs in the history of the NBA. I'm sorry Bulls fans, but this is something you will have to accept at some point.

Avenged
02-06-2013, 02:26 AM
The return of Rose will definitely going to "shake" the NBA. People forget so easily, but he makes the Bulls legit contenders. He is that good. With the way the bulls give it 100% every game, adding Rose will only elevate them that much further.

DumDum
02-06-2013, 02:30 AM
The return of Rose will definitely going to "shake" the NBA. People forget so easily, but he makes the Bulls legit contenders. He is that good. With the way the bulls give it 100% every game, adding Rose will only elevate them that much further.

shake ? really thats the world you going use ? look at ricky look at shump they went down the same injury. they not shaking anything just yet

Avenged
02-06-2013, 02:32 AM
shake ? really thats the world you going use ? look at ricky look at shump they went the same. they not shaking anything just yet

OP used that word DumDum thats why I quoted it.

but imo rose is that good. we'll just have to wait and see

CubsBullsBucs
02-06-2013, 02:33 AM
shake ? really thats the world you going use ? look at ricky look at shump they went the same. they not shaking anything just yet

people on here have to be at least somewhat mentally challenged. i read the same crap every day. you are clearly trying to start an argument comparing Iman freaking Shumpert to Derrick Rose. This is why the NBA Forum has become such trash. Not only is such stupid stuff said, but its repeated over and over again. When was Shumpert ever expected to 'shake' anything upon his return??

mightybosstone
02-06-2013, 02:34 AM
The return of Rose will definitely going to "shake" the NBA. People forget so easily, but he makes the Bulls legit contenders. He is that good. With the way the bulls give it 100% every game, adding Rose will only elevate them that much further.

This is also accurate. While I do think people overrate Rose's abilities, the guy has top 10 potential if healthy. Even a 75 percent Derrick Rose makes Chicago probably the second best team in the East (though admittedly a weak conference). Still, I don't think Rose gives them enough of a push to get past Miami this season. If he can stay healthy for the whole season and Chicago can make smart decisions in the offseason? I could legitimately see them winning the ECF next year.

DumDum
02-06-2013, 02:36 AM
people on here have to be at least somewhat mentally challenged. i read the same crap every day. you are clearly trying to start an argument comparing Iman freaking Shumpert to Derrick Rose. This is why the NBA Forum has become such trash. Not only is such stupid stuff said, but its repeated over and over again. When was Shumpert ever expected to 'shake' anything upon his return??

I'm only comparing their injuries. did you even read my post ?

Stunner
02-06-2013, 02:38 AM
Another Rose bait thread ? Eh

CubsBullsBucs
02-06-2013, 02:39 AM
I'm only comparing their injuries. did you even read my post ?

yes you said that in reference to shumpert and rubio "they not shaking anything just yet". My question is when was Shumpert EVER supposed to shake anything upon his return?? You cant compare an MVP to an unproven player with potential. And Rubio had 15 points and 14 assists in his first game with big minutes last night. does he need 30/20 to satisfy you?

DumDum
02-06-2013, 02:42 AM
not a baiting don't care how you feel . will not post anything rose related since bulls fans are still sensitive about the matter

BIG worm
02-06-2013, 02:47 AM
dumdum is an extremely fitting name for the op.

Mr_Jones
02-06-2013, 02:52 AM
I like Derrick Rose, and that's all that matters.

Avenged
02-06-2013, 02:54 AM
I like Derrick Rose, and that's all that matters.

that is actually all that matters in the end.

Mr_Jones
02-06-2013, 03:08 AM
that is actually all that matters in the end.

absolutely, bud.

faridk89
02-06-2013, 03:09 AM
not a baiting don't care how you feel . will not post anything rose related since bulls fans are still sensitive about the matter

maybe you shouldn't post anything because you make no sense... and this from a Raptor fan

Meaze_Gibson
02-06-2013, 04:28 AM
People are seeing this Bulls team and acting as if it was the same bulls team from his MVP year. NewsFlash is that it is not. His very well deserved MVP was earned during a season which his team had the best record in the conference DESPITE Noah playing in only 49 games and Carlos Boozer playing in only 59. The offensive chemistry that you see between Noah and Boozer just was not there because of injuries and due to it being Carlos Boozer's first year with the team. Also, Keith Bogans was there starting two instead of Richard Hamilton. Nuff said on that.

The Bulls had a better record against top teams than anybody in the league that SEASON. Derrick Rose was the consistent leader who played out of his mind, even more so against those top teams that SEASON. Lebron James, while having better looking stats, did not lead his team to the degree we expect THAT SEASON. Both Lebron and Dwight Howard could not close, close games THAT SEASON nor was their team beating the upper echelon teams in the league despite having more durable and better overall teammates than Derrick Rose. That is why Rose deserved MVP THAT SEASON

At the end of day, Rose was a top 5 player in the nba when he was injured on a team that was starting to build chemistry. Anytime he goes against the top point guards, he destroys them, especially if the game is televised. Go check out Rose's career games from 2009 on vs Chris Paul Deron Williams, Tony Parker, etc on basketball reference. Anytime he goes against top teams, he usually destroys them. People are not romantisizing but just calling it how it is

JEDean89
02-06-2013, 04:31 AM
Dum Dums argument: Because Shumps and Rubio weren't insta MVP candidates upon their return then Rose won't be either.

the rest of us: :facepalm:

Bullsfan22
02-06-2013, 04:43 AM
Another Rose bait thread ? Eh

Probably just another jealous fan.

Kashmir13579
02-06-2013, 04:58 AM
Absolutely agree with the OP. He is still a lot better than shitbrick though.

DumDum
02-06-2013, 06:11 AM
Dum Dums argument: Because Shumps and Rubio weren't insta MVP candidates upon their return then Rose won't be either.

the rest of us: :facepalm:
not what I said. I'll walk you though it and even hold your hand like your 5 yrs old . rose got hurt. rose no play. rose no play long time. rose rusty. rose not 100%. rose not superman (rubio. shump) happy now ?

HYFR
02-06-2013, 06:16 AM
Is he a bit overrated? Yes, but he is a star in this league and the bulls are going nowhere without him.

flclfanman
02-06-2013, 07:25 AM
shake ? really thats the world you going use ? look at ricky look at shump they went down the same injury. they not shaking anything just yet

Except Rubio and Shump aren't bonafide superstars that'll get you 20ppg and 7apg

Rubio was rushed back a little ahead of schedule and now his body is having fits. Shump never lit up the highlight reel, he's mainly damn good at defense.

Look at all 3 of their numbers and the only thing they have in common are their injuries. Their impact on their respective team differ GREATLY.

Badluck33
02-06-2013, 08:35 AM
Rose should probably switch sports or retire.

He115ing
02-06-2013, 09:47 AM
I don't know what you think ppl are making him out to be but he is a superstar and a really amazing basketball player. My only conern is that he is pretty injury prone but that is really a consequence of how he plays.

omdigga
02-06-2013, 09:58 AM
Im impressed with how well the Bulls are playing without him. They play some solid D that keeps them in every game.
I dont get this thread. When DRose gets back the Bulls become contenders and one of the few teams in the east that can challenge miami.

ChitownbullsBG7
02-06-2013, 10:19 AM
Im impressed with how well the Bulls are playing without him. They play some solid D that keeps them in every game.
I dont get this thread. When DRose gets back the Bulls become contenders and one of the few teams in the east that can challenge miami.

No we don't. According to a lot of people on here, rose is overrated. So we won't really be any better even if he is 100%. I mean if rubio and shump haven't made an impact yet. There is no way a guy like rose who led his team to the best record in the NBA 2 times out of his first 4 years in the league, led his team to an ECF already and has won an MVP. There is just absolutely no way he makes us a better team. I mean he is just an overrated wanna be. What a joke rose is.:facepalm:

northsider
02-06-2013, 10:24 AM
Even if he's not as great as made out to be you would have to be half blind to not admit he is without a doubt one of the most exciting players in the NBA to watch play.

He could be a bottom 20 player in the NBA and still he is just amazing to watch on the court in crunch time or in general with his acrobatic plays to the rack. I guess as a Chicago kid it just means a whole lot more as well as the fact that his style of play literally replicates that of Chicago born and raised hooper.

These threads are getting old cause it's been made clear that we know a majority think he was undeserving of his MVP and that most think he is super overrated. However changing the emphasis on why y9ou think that doesn't change the fact it's the same ****ing boring thread as the other 100 brought up to down play an exciting player.

Then someone saying that Iman/Rubio coming back didn't shake things up. Well no ****ing **** sherlock in what world are either of those two players on the level of Rose in terms of excitement as well as NBA superstar level of play.

Any time the league gets a super star back it's going to not only be a big deal but, sure it "shakes" some things up.

Manimal
02-06-2013, 10:38 AM
Yup, overrated. I think Chicago should trade him away. They could probably dupe Denver into giving them Lawson and some draft picks;).

effen5
02-06-2013, 10:50 AM
People are seeing this Bulls team and acting as if it was the same bulls team from his MVP year. NewsFlash is that it is not. His very well deserved MVP was earned during a season which his team had the best record in the conference DESPITE Noah playing in only 49 games and Carlos Boozer playing in only 59. The offensive chemistry that you see between Noah and Boozer just was not there because of injuries and due to it being Carlos Boozer's first year with the team. Also, Keith Bogans was there starting two instead of Richard Hamilton. Nuff said on that.

The Bulls had a better record against top teams than anybody in the league that SEASON. Derrick Rose was the consistent leader who played out of his mind, even more so against those top teams that SEASON. Lebron James, while having better looking stats, did not lead his team to the degree we expect THAT SEASON. Both Lebron and Dwight Howard could not close, close games THAT SEASON nor was their team beating the upper echelon teams in the league despite having more durable and better overall teammates than Derrick Rose. That is why Rose deserved MVP THAT SEASON

At the end of day, Rose was a top 5 player in the nba when he was injured on a team that was starting to build chemistry. Anytime he goes against the top point guards, he destroys them, especially if the game is televised. Go check out Rose's career games from 2009 on vs Chris Paul Deron Williams, Tony Parker, etc on basketball reference. Anytime he goes against top teams, he usually destroys them. People are not romantisizing but just calling it how it is

Hey OP, why don't you read this post and then shut the **** up because you obviously know nothing about Rose's MVP season.

Oh...he's 24....not even close to his prime....and is an absolute freak.

DR_1
02-06-2013, 10:52 AM
OP, u mad???

effen5
02-06-2013, 10:53 AM
This forum is the definition of hypocrite. People say Rose didn't have enough last year and look at the playoffs when Rose got hurt, they couldn't even beat an average 6er team...Thats this forum saying that. Now that Rose is close to returning, people are saying that Rose shouldn't have been MVP because this team is very good without Rose.

Make up your ****in minds.

DR_1
02-06-2013, 10:56 AM
This forum is the definition of hypocrite. People say Rose didn't have enough last year and look at the playoffs when Rose got hurt, they couldn't even beat an average 6er team...Thats this forum saying that. Now that Rose is close to returning, people are saying that Rose shouldn't have been MVP because this team is very good without Rose.

Make up your ****in minds.
:clap:
Sig worthy

ThaDubs
02-06-2013, 11:12 AM
Without D Rose they're 29-18 (I think). With D Rose they had the best record in the NBA.

DaBUU
02-06-2013, 11:22 AM
Calling DRose overrated is like calling Durant overrated. Just plain silliness, like this stupid thread.

HighCHWRoller07
02-06-2013, 11:35 AM
OP must be a heat or knicks fan and is scared of the return...

Manimal
02-06-2013, 11:45 AM
It's a troll thread, expect it to gain momentum when DRose does return. Since only idiots expect him to straightaway return at the level he was playing before he got injured.

So expect more trolling once he starts playing. I must say the OP is a visionary troll, he's ahead of his less talented colleagues.

Longhornfan1234
02-06-2013, 11:49 AM
I don't see many Bulls on here anymore. This board was filled with Bulls fans before Rose got injured.

ChitownbullsBG7
02-06-2013, 12:09 PM
Yup, overrated. I think Chicago should trade him away. They could probably dupe Denver into giving them Lawson and some draft picks;).

Y'all are giving up way too much for the overrated rose.

I don't see many Bulls on here anymore. This board was filled with Bulls fans before Rose got injured.
Look at the dumb threads that get posted.

Nats_vcu-Okc35
02-06-2013, 12:15 PM
So what makes him overrated, that his team is winning without him? Any time a player that, as you stated, is a FUNDAMENTAL, piece of a team comes back, yes it is significant. Especially when it comes to a team that is at the upper echelon of a weak eastern conference.
As stated earlier in the thread, Rubio came back early to a team with a weakened, then injured Kevin love, and shumpert was never expected to take the rains and be a major producer, so he has been able to work back into form. Don't really see the comparison, between them. If your strictly just comparing injuries, and I know it gets brought up too often, then Adrien Peterson would tell you it's possible to come back and be effective.
If you're gonna make a post where you wanna call some one out, if you say for half the post that said overrated player is "great" and "good", it really confuses your argument. If you're saying he is not as good as Lebron, Durant, Kobe, melo, and cp3 then say so, using a term as amorphous as overrated comes off as baiting.

Cal827
02-06-2013, 12:34 PM
I've got a good feeling about this thread... just like the other 100 "Derek Rose is overrated" threads last year :jumpy::jumpy::jumpy::jumpy::jumpy::jumpy::jumpy:

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-06-2013, 12:44 PM
I think people romanticize how good Derrick Rose actually is. He definitely is a great player, being the only person other than Lebron to win MVP in the last 4 years, but he’s not as good as people are making him out to be, in my possibly delusional opinion. He’s got a great team behind him who are fully capable of standing on their own. The return of Derrick Rose isn’t going to shake the NBA and turn it on its head. It’s a momentous occasion considering the severity of his injury, but he’s just another really good player. People are making him out to be the best players ever because he got MVP that year. Granted, that is no small feat, but he is just not THAT good. He’s great, have I mind you, but he is NOT the savior of the bulls franchise. They’ve already got a solid team. D-Rose is simply a fundamental piece in the puzzle. The bulls can win the championship if that whole team just plays their hearts out, NOT because D-Rose is on the floor. Again, I think D-Rose is a great player: fast, distributes, clutch shooting, etc. It just bothers me that people exaggerate and romanticize about how good he really is

Well to be fair, Before rose went down he was a monster. He was basically westbrook on riods. However i do not see rose coming back and being the same guy (unless he goes ap style). I really like the kids game and personality. It's just some bulls fans make him out to be MJ 2.0
I do hope i'm wrong though and he comes back and the bulls beat the heat in the playoffs :D

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-06-2013, 12:45 PM
I don't see many Bulls on here anymore. This board was filled with Bulls fans before Rose got injured.

Don't kid yourself. They will storm back when he comes back and they make some noise.

northsider
02-06-2013, 12:51 PM
Don't kid yourself. They will storm back when he comes back and they make some noise.

There's still a ton of us and our actual forum is active however yes the actually idiots who cared to join the other idiots in the NBA forum to stir up trouble should be back lol.

DR_1
02-06-2013, 12:56 PM
The reason there is a smaller amount of Bulls fams on the NBA forum is because of how stupid it is.

Lio Messi
02-06-2013, 01:01 PM
The reason there is a smaller amount of Bulls fams on the NBA forum is because of how stupid it is.
i guess only the dumb ones are still posting in it

Gators123
02-06-2013, 01:19 PM
OP, u mad???


The reason there is a smaller amount of Bulls fams on the NBA forum is because of how stupid it is.

Hmm.

DaBUU
02-06-2013, 01:40 PM
i guess only the dumb ones are still posting in it

Thats just great mult.

boateng
02-06-2013, 01:40 PM
Rose is extremely talented, but the OP hit the nail on the head, IMO. And news flash to Bulls fans: Rose did not deserve his MVP. There were easily at least 2-3 more deserving players, and his award will go down as one of the weakest MVPs in the history of the NBA. I'm sorry Bulls fans, but this is something you will have to accept at some point.

yeah but get over it

it was 2 years ago. i don't see why it bothers you so much.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-06-2013, 01:51 PM
There's still a ton of us and our actual forum is active however yes the actually idiots who cared to join the other idiots in the NBA forum to stir up trouble should be back lol.

LOl

Cubby
02-06-2013, 02:39 PM
I don't see many Bulls on here anymore. This board was filled with Bulls fans before Rose got injured.

Maybe because we have our own forum where we don't get bombarded with troll threads and hate? Or the fact that most posters here have little to no respect for Chicago sports as whole and thus harass most of us? Or that the average IQ of most posters in here has dropped exponentially making it nearly impossible to maintain interest in this forum?

Gee, I don't ****ing know.

Cubby
02-06-2013, 02:41 PM
Well to be fair, Before rose went down he was a monster. He was basically westbrook on riods. However i do not see rose coming back and being the same guy (unless he goes ap style). I really like the kids game and personality. It's just some bulls fans make him out to be MJ 2.0
I do hope i'm wrong though and he comes back and the bulls beat the heat in the playoffs :D

I've never heard someone compare him to MJ, but whoever did is incredibly stupid.

DITKA4GOV
02-06-2013, 02:52 PM
I don't understand the Rose hate threads. The NBA is filled with D-bags/thugs/a-holes, yet Rose continues to get dumped on. The guy who acts like a gentleman, doesn't talk **** before/during/after games, barely gets t'd up by refs, and practices/plays hard every day gets **** on?

You can't compare Rose or his injury to Shump or Rubio. While they came back like they left, Rose is coming back with an added 15 pounds of muscle. Determination and heart seperates Rose from the pack.

What will happend when he comes back is the question. But Chicago can't wait for the return. Looks like fans of the other teams in the league are anticipating it as well with all these "hate Rose" threads. Good luck with that.

DR_1
02-06-2013, 02:59 PM
Hmm.

I can't help myself. I love talking basketball too much.

ManRam
02-06-2013, 03:00 PM
I don't understand the Rose hate threads. The NBA is filled with D-bags/thugs/a-holes, yet Rose continues to get dumped on. The guy who acts like a gentleman, doesn't talk **** before/during/after games, barely gets t'd up by refs, and practices/plays hard every day gets **** on?

You can't compare Rose or his injury to Shump or Rubio. While they came back like they left, Rose is coming back with an added 15 pounds of muscle. Determination and heart seperates Rose from the pack.

What will happend when he comes back is the question. But Chicago can't wait for the return. Looks like fans of the other teams in the league are anticipating it as well with all these "hate Rose" threads. Good luck with that.

Rose by all accounts is a great guy. My issues with Rose have NOTHING to do with his character. After all, this is basketball we're talking about. I don't really hate any athlete simply because of their character or off-the-court stuff. That's none of my business.

The Rose "haters" might seem antagonistic at times, but it's probably because the Rose fans are so incredibly defensive about him. I don't think it's any more so than any other fanbase is defensive about their fans, there's just such a high volume of Rose/Bulls fans here that it seems more annoying than normal. I mean, look no further than your post...you're making it sound like Rose is the only guy in the NBA who isn't a "D-bag/thug/a-hole" and who is the only guy who has "heart and determination". I mean, he's a great guy who cares a lot, but it's the constant placing of Rose on ridiculous pedestals that bothers me...and many others clearly.

You almost can't say anything negative about him, even if it's true, without being accused of being a "hater" or "dumping on him".

ewing
02-06-2013, 03:04 PM
Lol yup, that is right. Preach on! Well thought out and backed by facts.


Rose or no Rose the Bulls better be the best defensive team in the league if they want to win. Without Rose they don't have a ton of fire power and with him there number one offensive weapon is a ball dominate PG with limited court vision. Like it or not Rose cannot run team like a traditional point guard and his ball dominance limits the team's secondary scorers- look at Boozer. He reminds me of another unworthy MVP winner, AI. Both were ball dominate PGs that couldn't run a traditional offensive and were at there best surrounded by hard nose defensive players that didn't demand the ball.

DITKA4GOV
02-06-2013, 03:15 PM
[QUOTE=ManRamForPrez24;25322004]Rose by all accounts is a great guy. My issues with Rose have NOTHING to do with his character. After all, this is basketball we're talking about. I don't really hate any athlete simply because of their character or off-the-court stuff. That's none of my business.

LBJ/Heat fans as well as Laker/Kobe fans are just as numerous as Bulls/Rose fans. Yet, in my opinion there tends to be more Rose Hate threads than most. I can read negative views on Rose without issue. Doesn’t bother me some think his MVP was not earned, because he will always have that accolade no matter how much someone wants to hate on it. Calling him not top 5 or not top 10 is insane in my opinion if you look at his stats, and record when he’s on the floor.

Everyone has a right to their opinion when it comes to basketball. The way I was raised playing ball in Chicago, by coaches and elder players is how I view when it comes to respect on the court. Guys like Demarcus Cousins, Howard, Artest, JR Smith, and so on I will never like or respect. Even if they have game, I can’t stand the unprofessional approach they take to a game that I obviously follow and enjoy. My HS coach would roll over in his grave if he heard what these dbags say on the court, or when they act like fools.

ChitownbullsBG7
02-06-2013, 03:19 PM
Rose or no Rose the Bulls better be the best defensive team in the league if they want to win. Without Rose they don't have a ton of fire power and with him there number one offensive weapon is a ball dominate PG with limited court vision. Like it or not Rose cannot run team like a traditional point guard and his ball dominance limits the team's secondary scorers- look at Boozer. He reminds me of another unworthy MVP winner, AI. Both were ball dominate PGs that couldn't run a traditional offensive and were at there best surrounded by hard nose defensive players that didn't demand the ball.
Almost everyone on the bulls are shooting career lows. But again preach it!

ewing
02-06-2013, 03:21 PM
Almost everyone on the bulls are shooting career lows. But again preach it!

And this disproves the idea that they better be great defensively to win how?

DITKA4GOV
02-06-2013, 03:22 PM
Rose or no Rose the Bulls better be the best defensive team in the league if they want to win. Without Rose they don't have a ton of fire power and with him there number one offensive weapon is a ball dominate PG with limited court vision. Like it or not Rose cannot run team like a traditional point guard and his ball dominance limits the team's secondary scorers- look at Boozer. He reminds me of another unworthy MVP winner, AI. Both were ball dominate PGs that couldn't run a traditional offensive and were at there best surrounded by hard nose defensive players that didn't demand the ball.

Have you watched Bulls Games when Rose was playing. The offense is quite different then the Sixer offense with AI. I'd love to see the stat in which AI brought the ball up and shot without a pass compared to Rose. Tw

Rose is a MUCH more complete player than AI. And, he has a MUCH better attitude

ewing
02-06-2013, 03:24 PM
Have you watched Bulls Games when Rose was playing. The offense is quite different then the Sixer offense with AI. I'd love to see the stat in which AI brought the ball up and shot without a pass compared to Rose. Tw

Rose is a MUCH more complete player than AI. And, he has a MUCH better attitude

I agree that he is better and more complete but i still think the comparison is valid.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-06-2013, 03:34 PM
I've never heard someone compare him to MJ, but whoever did is incredibly stupid.

Some bulls fans on here can be a little over the top. I hope he comes back and starts tearing **** up again. He's my 3rd fav player.

ChitownbullsBG7
02-06-2013, 03:35 PM
And this disproves the idea that they better be great defensively to win how?

It disproves how you say he limits secondary scorers when their stat line is basically the same or worse without him. But keep preaching!

ManRam
02-06-2013, 03:40 PM
LBJ/Heat fans as well as Laker/Kobe fans are just as numerous as Bulls/Rose fans. Yet, in my opinion there tends to be more Rose Hate threads than most. I can read negative views on Rose without issue. Doesn’t bother me some think his MVP was not earned, because he will always have that accolade no matter how much someone wants to hate on it. Calling him not top 5 or not top 10 is insane in my opinion if you look at his stats, and record when he’s on the floor.

Everyone has a right to their opinion when it comes to basketball. The way I was raised playing ball in Chicago, by coaches and elder players is how I view when it comes to respect on the court. Guys like Demarcus Cousins, Howard, Artest, JR Smith, and so on I will never like or respect. Even if they have game, I can’t stand the unprofessional approach they take to a game that I obviously follow and enjoy. My HS coach would roll over in his grave if he heard what these dbags say on the court, or when they act like fools.

1) LeBron's hate in his hate-prime shats all over the hate Rose gets. Don't even pretend.
2) I'd say the same for Kobe
3) NOW, after Rose's MVP and LeBron's ring, maybe it's different...but come on


It's cool that you like guys who are great individuals and good human beings.

But if that's true, I'm assuming you hated MJ...who was neither.

ewing
02-06-2013, 03:50 PM
It disproves how you say he limits secondary scorers when their stat line is basically the same or worse without him. But keep preaching!

No it doesn't. The only guy the Bulls have capable of being a legit second option is Boozer and with or without Rose you don't have a point that can set him up properly. The Bulls will be dependent on being great defensively with or with out Rose. Rose gives them a super athlete that can get buckets on his own at the end of a slug feast. Otherwise i don't think he really changes the team. If your want to sell me on a primary ball handler being MVP level he has to do more for others on the offensive end

RowBTrice
02-06-2013, 03:57 PM
Who is this Derrick Rose you speak of???

SwatTeam
02-06-2013, 04:14 PM
Who is this Derrick Rose you speak of???

He is this pusssy who tore his ACL , cries on stage when people honor him, cheats on his SATs, chokes in games (Kentucky-Kansas championship game), and is the savior of Chicago sports because the bears and cubs constantly suck.

^^now that my friends is trolling at its finest^^

quade36
02-06-2013, 04:15 PM
I've never heard of Derrick Rose either?

quade36
02-06-2013, 04:16 PM
He is this pusssy who tore his ACL , cries on stage when people honor him, cheats on his SATs, chokes in games (Kentucky-Kansas championship game), and is the savior of Chicago sports because the bears and cubs constantly suck.

^^now that my friends is trolling at its finest^^

What about the Blackhawks???? They don't suck.

SwatTeam
02-06-2013, 04:16 PM
He is this pusssy who tore his ACL , cries on stage when people honor him, cheats on his SATs, chokes in games (Kentucky-Kansas championship game), and is the savior of Chicago sports because the bears and cubs constantly suck.

^^now that my friends is trolling at its finest^^

You're a POS. Derrick Rose is Jesus Christ reincarnate!

SwatTeam
02-06-2013, 04:17 PM
What about the Blackhawks???? They don't suck.

Yeah good call. The Blackhawks are sick. That swag team guy is a queer.

TheIlladelph16
02-06-2013, 04:19 PM
1) LeBron's hate in his hate-prime shats all over the hate Rose gets. Don't even pretend.
2) I'd say the same for Kobe
3) NOW, after Rose's MVP and LeBron's ring, maybe it's different...but come on


It's cool that you like guys who are great individuals and good human beings.

But if that's true, I'm assuming you hated MJ...who was neither.

That's what's curious to me. Rose by all accounts is a really great guy and works just as hard as can be asked of an individual, which I have the utmost respect for. MJ is the exact opposite of that. Insane, killer work ethic for sure, but as a person and individual MJ fails completely. Both are revered for the exact opposite reasons as this point, so I'm curious as to why you would prop Rose up as a great human being etc. while also not tearing down the greatest player ever.

SwatTeam
02-06-2013, 04:20 PM
Yeah good call. The Blackhawks are sick. That swag team guy is a queer.

You want some of this?

rocket
02-06-2013, 04:46 PM
Jimmy Buckets

Muttman73
02-06-2013, 05:35 PM
This is pretty much what I expect from the NBA forum these days, headed back to the NFL where you can at least have moronic conversations, this one is pathetic

Hawkeye15
02-06-2013, 05:57 PM
The OP makes some solid points, and I do think Rose is overrated by most, but it doesn't change the fact that he is an amazing talent, and an excellent player, top 20 in the NBA, and a top 3-5 PG. But what gets me honestly is when people try and tell me he brought a lottery team to the playoffs in year one, and that he has never missed the playoffs, while they completely ignore the circumstances. Hell, the Bulls are 46-28 without him the last 2 seasons. His MVP was a weak one imo, I get why he won it, I have no issue with it, but don't act like he was the best player in the NBA that year, not even close.

All that being said, he is fun to watch, a great kid, and I hope he fully recovers, because he is a huge talent.

Hawkeye15
02-06-2013, 05:59 PM
This is pretty much what I expect from the NBA forum these days, headed back to the NFL where you can at least have moronic conversations, this one is pathetic

dude, I had a poster tell me he would take Mario Chalmers over Kyrie Irving because "he wins playoff games" the other day. So, yeah, the NBA forum is awesome.

kubernetes
02-06-2013, 06:08 PM
I dunno, maybe he is overrated, but honestly it's been so long since I've seen Rose be Rose that it's hard to say.

OceanSpray
02-06-2013, 06:11 PM
I agree. He shouldn't have won MVP that year anyways. His team has always been good. Noah, Boozer, Taj Gibson, Deng? I don't see why people think he's so good. Yes, he was a top 5 player. But LeBron at that time was 10x better than the second best player.

Hawkeye15
02-06-2013, 06:13 PM
I do feel for Bulls fans, because unless he has an AP recovery (not likely), there will be a thread after every possession he plays calling him overrated, and people listing 20 PG's better right now, all because Rose will be recovering from one of the most serious basketball injuries, and probably not look like Derrick Rose until late this year at best.

bbcmillionaire
02-06-2013, 06:20 PM
hahaha at this thread. There should really be a 1,000 post minimum requirement for creating a thread

utl768
02-06-2013, 06:41 PM
only reason rose won the mvp is because everyone was still mad at lebron in 2010

DITKA4GOV
02-06-2013, 06:53 PM
That's what's curious to me. Rose by all accounts is a really great guy and works just as hard as can be asked of an individual, which I have the utmost respect for. MJ is the exact opposite of that. Insane, killer work ethic for sure, but as a person and individual MJ fails completely. Both are revered for the exact opposite reasons as this point, so I'm curious as to why you would prop Rose up as a great human being etc. while also not tearing down the greatest player ever.

Great question. Maybe comes with my age, 31. I watched and rooted the MJ Bulls from the first championship.. on. I never questioned MJ's personality/profesionalism off the court because I was too young to care. I remember a park opened in the city around 92 and Jordan wanted 100k to show up and cut the ribbon. Bobby Hanson (Name dropper) did it for free. At the time of MJ I was playing rec league and AAU (Crusader.) Didn't really understand the game like I do now.

Looking back at MJ, yeah not the greatest person but also was never suspended for punching out a fan (Artest), held a team hostage for a trade (Melo & Howard,) or lead the league in T's or flat out a total ******* to his team, refs, and everyone else (D.Cousins.) Not to mention MJ in my opinion was the GOAT when it came to game time. The two years (Baseball) irk me knowing an 8 peat was within grasp.

But overall... that is a great question. I also think the face of this league has changed quite a bit from the MJ Days to the LBJ days. Guys like KD and DRose are breaths of fresh air in a league filled with green smoke.

DITKA4GOV
02-06-2013, 06:56 PM
only reason rose won the mvp is because everyone was still mad at lebron in 2010

Yeah, thats why. Mystery solved. It had nothing to do with LBJ and the Heat not living up to expectations after the parade, and guarantees and all that. SMH

fin_frenzy_84
02-07-2013, 12:11 AM
Rose is that good... He is easily a top 10 player in the league and that being said is a Superstar. He isn't the best player in the league but he is really really good and is a game changer.

ThaDubs
02-07-2013, 12:13 AM
I agree. He shouldn't have won MVP that year anyways. His team has always been good. Noah, Boozer, Taj Gibson, Deng? I don't see why people think he's so good. Yes, he was a top 5 player. But LeBron at that time was 10x better than the second best player.

Who was the 2nd best player at the time... maybe CP3? LeBron James is not 10x better than CP3... maybe 1.4x better.

ThaDubs
02-07-2013, 12:13 AM
I agree. He shouldn't have won MVP that year anyways. His team has always been good. Noah, Boozer, Taj Gibson, Deng? I don't see why people think he's so good. Yes, he was a top 5 player. But LeBron at that time was 10x better than the second best player.

Who was the 2nd best player at the time... maybe CP3? LeBron James is not 10x better than CP3... maybe 1.4x better.

Mataro41
02-07-2013, 12:26 AM
d rose has more heart than most players thats what makes is a specia kinda player cares more about the game and wants to improve

chicago lulz
02-07-2013, 01:04 AM
The OP makes some solid points, and I do think Rose is overrated by most, but it doesn't change the fact that he is an amazing talent, and an excellent player, top 20 in the NBA, and a top 3-5 PG.

Lately, I've only lurked here and there on the NBA Forum, so could you explain how people are overrating Rose, and who you define as most? I certainly see some Bulls fans in this thread poorly making arguments, making some farce statements, but OP's argument isn't as clear either. OP certainly gives his reason, but never addresses "but he’s not as good as people are making him out to be", so I'm confused as to what the pretense was regarding the "overraters" opinions on Rose.



But what gets me honestly is when people try and tell me he brought a lottery team to the playoffs in year one, and that he has never missed the playoffs, while they completely ignore the circumstances. Hell, the Bulls are 46-28 without him the last 2 seasons.

I certainly agree the "HE brought a team to the playoffs" statement is weak, because ultimately it's a team sport. I don't know if one can make the statement that a single player single-handedly brought a team to the playoffs, without taking into consideration the players around him, the coaching staff, as well as the offensive/defensive sets implemented by that staff. The past few years, I believe Rose has been surrounded by some solid to great talent, and a great coaching staff. So I agree with OP's statement that they have a great/solid team right now able to hold their own, but can it continue in the playoffs?
I believe Rose at 100% can make this team better than it already is, and will be key in the playoffs, as he's one of the only players on the team able to be effective in isolation. Not to mention his ability to penetrate and collapse the defense freeing up open players.

Personally, the "Bulls are doing so well without him" argument isn't telling of anything about Rose. Unless their record with Rose is worse than without. Do direct me to a database with this kind of information if you know one.


His MVP was a weak one imo, I get why he won it, I have no issue with it, but don't act like he was the best player in the NBA that year, not even close.

If there were a criteria to choosing an MVP, I would be more inclined to debate on your opinion of his MVP being weak, but since there isn't, my argument would be subjective, considering my idea of an MVP may be different from yours. Also, I don't feel like typing another long paragraph (excuse my laziness), and what's done is done. I will say, he may not have had the best stats that year, compared to other MVP candidates.


In regards to OP, it's difficult to make a claim against his argument since many of the statements made are not defined, but rather are subjective ("...really good player", "not THAT good", "great player" I love how Rose goes from "really good" to "not that good" to "great"). I do not agree with his statement "The bulls can win the championship if that whole team just plays their hearts out, NOT because D-Rose is on the floor". I certainly believe Rose will be needed for the Bulls to compete for a championship. I believe he's currently the most important piece to the puzzle, if the Bulls are going to have a chance at the Finals. Maybe down the road, the Bulls are able to get a more important piece, but as it stands, he's the most important piece.

Anyways, a bit dissapointed with the thread, as it's a lot of "yes, no" back and forth without much substance, although I've seen decent arguments here and there.

Cool007
02-07-2013, 01:05 AM
I agree. He shouldn't have won MVP that year anyways. His team has always been good. Noah, Boozer, Taj Gibson, Deng? I don't see why people think he's so good. Yes, he was a top 5 player. But LeBron at that time was 10x better than the second best player.

You do (actually you don't per your comments) realize that the year Rose won MVP, both NOah and Boozer missed **** LOAD of Games right?

Did you know that most of the games Bulls had 100 year old Kurt Thomas and Brick Bogans were in the starting lineup right?

Did you know that 2 years ago East was MUCH BETTER than Eastern Conference this year right?

Oh wait, if you did know then you would never write the comments you had.

kozelkid
02-07-2013, 01:18 AM
Rose is extremely talented, but the OP hit the nail on the head, IMO. And news flash to Bulls fans: Rose did not deserve his MVP. There were easily at least 2-3 more deserving players, and his award will go down as one of the weakest MVPs in the history of the NBA. I'm sorry Bulls fans, but this is something you will have to accept at some point.

Then clearly you have a VERY bad grasp on NBA history.

Look up Allen Iverson and Wes Unseld for starters. Not to mention, you clearly have a lot to learn if you think the NBA MVP is only about the best statistical output. If it was, MJ would have won more than 5, and Shaq more than one. There's no question Lebron in a vacuum was a superior player that year, as was Dwight. But if you believe that the biggest story and overall team success doesn't factor into MVP awarding, then, again, you have A LOT to learn.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 01:37 AM
Lately, I've only lurked here and there on the NBA Forum, so could you explain how people are overrating Rose, and who you define as most? I certainly see some Bulls fans in this thread poorly making arguments, making some farce statements, but OP's argument isn't as clear either. OP certainly gives his reason, but never addresses "but he’s not as good as people are making him out to be", so I'm confused as to what the pretense was regarding the "overraters" opinions on Rose.

The term "overrated" is subjective, correct? We both agree on that. He is overrated to me, because he won an MVP when he clearly wasn't the best player in the league, and I have to read countless posters (many Bulls fans) say that he has "led" teams to the playoffs, when he clearly was drafted to a team that had no business getting the #1 pick to begin with. That being said, I think Rose is a top 10 player when healthy, but I would not define him as a superstar.



I certainly agree the "HE brought a team to the playoffs" statement is weak, because ultimately it's a team sport. I don't know if one can make the statement that a single player single-handedly brought a team to the playoffs, without taking into consideration the players around him, the coaching staff, as well as the offensive/defensive sets implemented by that staff. The past few years, I believe Rose has been surrounded by some solid to great talent, and a great coaching staff. So I agree with OP's statement that they have a great/solid team right now able to hold their own, but can it continue in the playoffs?
I believe Rose at 100% can make this team better than it already is, and will be key in the playoffs, as he's one of the only players on the team able to be effective in isolation. Not to mention his ability to penetrate and collapse the defense freeing up open players.

LeBron is the only guy I think you stick on any garbage team, and they are in the playoffs. So we agree on this portion of your post for sure.


Personally, the "Bulls are doing so well without him" argument isn't telling of anything about Rose. Unless their record with Rose is worse than without. Do direct me to a database with this kind of information if you know one.

I mean, its simple math. The Bulls, without Rose, were a playoff team before he showed up (before horribly underachieving and then skipping 12 teams to get him), and are now. Is he the part that pushes them from a nice playoff roster to elite? Sure. But that doesn't mean his roster isn't awesome.

If you actually want some sites that will give you numbers, I will send them to you. Let me know.


If there were a criteria to choosing an MVP, I would be more inclined to debate on your opinion of his MVP being weak, but since there isn't, my argument would be subjective, considering my idea of an MVP may be different from yours. Also, I don't feel like typing another long paragraph (excuse my laziness), and what's done is done. I will say, he may not have had the best stats that year, compared to other MVP candidates.

No doubt dude, I guess it all depends on what defines the MVP to a person. That year, LeBron was public enemy #1, and stood no chance of winning the MVP, despite clearly being the best player on the planet. Dwight also had a better case, but Rose's team, under Thib's, was the taste of the NBA, and the great story. He played excellent. I mean, Nash's MVP's were a joke as well, but it is what it is.



In regards to OP, it's difficult to make a claim against his argument since many of the statements made are not defined, but rather are subjective ("...really good player", "not THAT good", "great player" I love how Rose goes from "really good" to "not that good" to "great"). I do not agree with his statement "The bulls can win the championship if that whole team just plays their hearts out, NOT because D-Rose is on the floor". I certainly believe Rose will be needed for the Bulls to compete for a championship. I believe he's currently the most important piece to the puzzle, if the Bulls are going to have a chance at the Finals. Maybe down the road, the Bulls are able to get a more important piece, but as it stands, he's the most important piece.

That is what you got from the OP? I read that while he thinks Rose is very talented, he may indeed not be as important to his teams day to day success. I think I stated earlier, for the Bulls to be considered contenders, of course Rose needs to be there, and be playing great. He is the most important piece, but he is simply overrated as a player who carries a team, because they are doing just fine without him.


Anyways, a bit dissapointed with the thread, as it's a lot of "yes, no" back and forth without much substance, although I've seen decent arguments here and there.

Meh, the NBA forum only has a few dozen good poster who have any clue what they are talking about. You will pinpoint them eventually, and engage. See you around.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 01:39 AM
Then clearly you have a VERY bad grasp on NBA history.

Look up Allen Iverson and Wes Unseld for starters. Not to mention, you clearly have a lot to learn if you think the NBA MVP is only about the best statistical output. If it was, MJ would have won more than 5, and Shaq more than one. There's no question Lebron in a vacuum was a superior player that year, as was Dwight. But if you believe that the biggest story and overall team success doesn't factor into MVP awarding, then, again, you have A LOT to learn.

you just engaged another worthy poster. MBT has been on record calling out AI, and Unseld's MVPs as well dude.

MVP is about the story many times, not the best player. That is why so many that understand the game call it a very inconsistent award.

chicago lulz
02-07-2013, 01:51 AM
If you actually want some sites that will give you numbers, I will send them to you. Let me know.


Fair points. Thanks for clearing that up.

Sota4Ever
02-07-2013, 02:12 AM
I can't wait until he is back. One of my favorite players in the league. Love the way he plays the game and acts on and off the court. Even though I can't stand the bears I find myself cheering for the bulls to make it out of the east. (especially to beat the heat)

The MVP is an award that is up to opinion. It is how you see the award be given out is how you determine if the player deserved it or not. Me and Hawk have had discussions about this especially with Rose. I think Rose completely deserved his MVP but there are plenty that see it otherwise.

Bullsfan22
02-07-2013, 02:26 AM
"Rose didn't lead his team to the playoffs because he was drafted by a team that had no business getting the #1 pick."

"And Rose is not a superstar"

Wow to the first quote and your definition of the word superstar must be one of epic proportion when you factor in the basketball players that are in a H.O.F.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 02:28 AM
"So Rose didn't lead his team to the playoffs because he was drafted by a team that had no business getting the #1 pick."

"And Rose is not a superstar"

Wow to the first quote and who the heck do you consider a superstar?

Wait, do you disagree that your team underperformed big time after a 49 win season, and then jumped 12 teams to land Rose?

Bullsfan22
02-07-2013, 02:34 AM
Do you really think Rose didn't lead his team to the playoffs? And again what type of player do you consider a superstar?

I believe that Bulls team overachieved.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 02:40 AM
Do you really think Rose didn't lead his team to the playoffs? And again what type of player do you consider a superstar?

I believe that Bulls team overachieved.

The Bulls, previous to playing well under their talent the year they landed in the lottery and skipped 12 teams, won a series, and were considered an up and coming team. Rose was simply a great talent added to a roster that had already made the playoffs. And then they hired Thib's to coach them, and he turned them into a powerhouse. I mean, the Bulls are 46-28 without him. Its not like he wasn't gifted a great situation dude. Fact.

If you believe the overachieved by losing 15 games more than the previous year from their 49 win campaign, with the same roster, only to land 13th in the draft hierarchy, yet skip 12 teams to get the #1 pick, that is on you bud.

Bullsfan22
02-07-2013, 02:58 AM
Before Rose came the prior 3 seasons we won 41,49, and 33 games (The season before we got Rose).

The 06-07 Bulls team that won 49 games had three players (Ben Gordon,Deng and Nocioni) each had arguably their most productive seasons. On top of that, that was Ben Wallace's last year of his prime after that he declined rapidly. Also at that time Scott Skiles coaching style started to wear out not only him but the players also. Media and fans slowly started pushing him out of the city by mid season. Did The Bulls deserve the number one pick? No. But our team wasn't on the edge of greatness like you seem to think. Gordon moved on to play with the Pistons and Kirk was burned out by Skiles. We weren't up and coming, we we're destined to be a team to good to get a high draft pick and limited to a second round knock out at best. We had a new coach (Vinny) with no prior coaching experience and roster with our number one scoring option Ben Gordon knowing he was on his way out. A rookie Rose provided a stop gap to and organization that would have found their way back into the lottery without Rose.

So if a team is good enough to get to the playoffs without their star player that rules out the notion that the star player led them to the playoffs the prior seasons? I don't get your logic behind that. I never once said the Bulls reflected a normal team that deserved the number 1 pick so you don't have to argue that point with me.

The Bulls team right now is a reflection of an Elite coach with a group of players that are buying into the system. Rose turns this current team that has a ceiling despite their "regular season record" into contenders. If you've paid attention to this team you would understand that all year we've won with great defense and heart and good teams underestimating us. I'm sure you understand you need more than that to get you to the ECF. The playoffs are a whole different ball game and that was evident shortly after Rose got injured and we seemingly had little chance at beating the 76'ers.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 03:59 AM
Before Rose came the prior 3 seasons we won 41,49, and 33 games (The season before we got Rose).

The 06-07 Bulls team that won 49 games had three players (Ben Gordon,Deng and Nocioni) each had arguably their most productive seasons. On top of that, that was Ben Wallace's last year of his prime after that he declined rapidly. Also at that time Scott Skiles coaching style started to wear out not only him but the players also. Media and fans slowly started pushing him out of the city by mid season. Did The Bulls deserve the number one pick? No. But our team wasn't on the edge of greatness like you seem to think. Gordon moved on to play with the Pistons and Kirk was burned out by Skiles. We weren't up and coming, we we're destined to be a team to good to get a high draft pick and limited to a second round knock out at best. We had a new coach (Vinny) with no prior coaching experience and roster with our number one scoring option Ben Gordon knowing he was on his way out. A rookie Rose provided a stop gap to and organization that would have found their way back into the lottery without Rose.

So if a team is good enough to get to the playoffs without their star player that rules out the notion that the star player led them to the playoffs the prior seasons? I don't get your logic behind that. I never once said the Bulls reflected a normal team that deserved the number 1 pick so you don't have to argue that point with me.

The Bulls team right now is a reflection of an Elite coach with a group of players that are buying into the system. Rose turns this current team that has a ceiling despite their "regular season record" into contenders. If you've paid attention to this team you would understand that all year we've won with great defense and heart and good teams underestimating us. I'm sure you understand you need more than that to get you to the ECF. The playoffs are a whole different ball game and that was evident shortly after Rose got injured and we seemingly had little chance at beating the 76'ers.

You answered your own question.

Bullsfan22
02-07-2013, 06:37 AM
Tsk Tsk. Done here.

time4change
02-07-2013, 08:52 AM
shake ? really thats the world you going use ? look at ricky look at shump they went down the same injury. they not shaking anything just yet

Neither Ricky or Shump are half the athlete that Derrick Rose is.

Nor the player.

Derrick Rose is a game changer, if can't see that you need to watch more Bulls games when he is healthy again.



Not to mention the guy has even come close to reaching his full potential.

time4change
02-07-2013, 08:57 AM
I just can't wait til the playoffs are here and Rose is fully healthy.

I do think the Bulls (if Rose is healthy) will beat the Heat if that matchup comes to fruition.

Then will see what you posters who are skull deep in LBJ are saying.

R. Johnson#3
02-07-2013, 09:06 AM
The thing that sucks about this all is that we probably won't be seeing the same Derrick Rose when he returns and all the nay sayers will start up with the "I told ya so" comments. Prior to the injury, Rose was top 5 in the league. I really hope he can return to 100%

ewing
02-07-2013, 09:56 AM
d rose has more heart than most players thats what makes is a specia kinda player cares more about the game and wants to improve


So do I.

kozelkid
02-07-2013, 10:57 AM
Then clearly you have a VERY bad grasp on NBA history.

Look up Allen Iverson and Wes Unseld for starters. Not to mention, you clearly have a lot to learn if you think the NBA MVP is only about the best statistical output. If it was, MJ would have won more than 5, and Shaq more than one. There's no question Lebron in a vacuum was a superior player that year, as was Dwight. But if you believe that the biggest story and overall team success doesn't factor into MVP awarding, then, again, you have A LOT to learn.

you just engaged another worthy poster. MBT has been on record calling out AI, and Unseld's MVPs as well dude.

MVP is about the story many times, not the best player. That is why so many that understand the game call it a very inconsistent award.

Maybe so, but you can't label Rose the "worst MVP" when this has been done many times in the past.

ManRam
02-07-2013, 10:58 AM
I just can't wait til the playoffs are here and Rose is fully healthy.

I do think the Bulls (if Rose is healthy) will beat the Heat if that matchup comes to fruition.

Then will see what you posters who are skull deep in LBJ are saying.

I actually think with a healthy Rose that the Bulls can beat the Heat, but that's not going to change my opinion on Rose or LeBron. It takes a team.

I'm not sure what the last sentence here means, but the Bulls team defense is far better than the Heat's team defense. They are a better rebounding team, especially on the offensive end. They have a better bench, that will get better when Rose returns. The Heat have a league-average defense, are the 4th worst offensive rebounding team in the NBA, have the 3rd lowest scoring bench in the NBA and they still don't have much size. I know in 2011 they handled the Bulls relatively easily, and a lot of these concerns remained (they were much better defensively in the regular season), but the Bulls are a tremendously complete team.

I think that's what bothered me most. In the MVP debate, and I'm guilty of it myself with Dwight that year (though, the Magic without him truly do actually suck), it seemed that those arguing for Rose were slandering the team around him on ridiculous levels. That team had basically a historically great defense that got overlooked in an effort to credit Rose, and a great head coach, who people were reluctant to give credit to because it was his first year.

I don't really hate any athlete, I just get peeved when I think fanboyism (Kobe, Rose, current Rondo, early Griffin, early LeBron etc.) or senseless hate (swayed back into liking LeBron, Westbrook, early Rondo, etc.) is too prevalent and my defenses or arguments start to shape my opinions of players. Maybe that's a stupid reason to like or dislike players, but I'm sure it's true for a lot of us. A lot of that like/dislike truly comes from success...and that might even play a role into my perceived dislike for Rose. Never took issue with him until the MVP campaign really.

DITKA4GOV
02-07-2013, 11:30 AM
I actually think with a healthy Rose that the Bulls can beat the Heat, but that's not going to change my opinion on Rose or LeBron. It takes a team.

I'm not sure what the last sentence here means, but the Bulls team defense is far better than the Heat's team defense. They are a better rebounding team, especially on the offensive end. They have a better bench, that will get better when Rose returns. The Heat have a league-average defense, are the 4th worst offensive rebounding team in the NBA, have the 3rd lowest scoring bench in the NBA and they still don't have much size. I know in 2011 they handled the Bulls relatively easily, and a lot of these concerns remained (they were much better defensively in the regular season), but the Bulls are a tremendously complete team.

I think that's what bothered me most. In the MVP debate, and I'm guilty of it myself with Dwight that year (though, the Magic without him truly do actually suck), it seemed that those arguing for Rose were slandering the team around him on ridiculous levels. That team had basically a historically great defense that got overlooked in an effort to credit Rose, and a great head coach, who people were reluctant to give credit to because it was his first year.

I don't really hate any athlete, I just get peeved when I think fanboyism (Kobe, Rose, current Rondo, early Griffin, early LeBron etc.) or senseless hate (swayed back into liking LeBron, Westbrook, early Rondo, etc.) is too prevalent and my defenses or arguments start to shape my opinions of players. Maybe that's a stupid reason to like or dislike players, but I'm sure it's true for a lot of us. A lot of that like/dislike truly comes from success...and that might even play a role into my perceived dislike for Rose. Never took issue with him until the MVP campaign really.

Good points. If LBJ would have gotten it that year, I would have been disappointed (due to Heat not meeting their crazy expectations) but would of understood due to LBJ’s insane stats. If Howard would have won, I would have been pissed. He had great stats, but hurt his team terribly with his foul shooting, technicals, and even a suspension b/c of said techs. I couldn’t see someone who hurt his team’s record (& playoff position) due to missing a game down the stretch b/c of his mouth win MVP.

benzni
02-07-2013, 11:44 AM
Comparing Rose to Shump and Rubio? :laugh2:

/thread

ManRam
02-07-2013, 11:47 AM
Good points. If LBJ would have gotten it that year, I would have been disappointed (due to Heat not meeting their crazy expectations) but would of understood due to LBJ’s insane stats. If Howard would have won, I would have been pissed. He had great stats, but hurt his team terribly with his foul shooting, technicals, and even a suspension b/c of said techs. I couldn’t see someone who hurt his team’s record (& playoff position) due to missing a game down the stretch b/c of his mouth win MVP.

I eventually resigned to the fact that Rose, regardless of how he ranked as a player, deserved the award. I don't think Howard hurt us as much as you're alluding, but the team didn't have the success it needed that year. You can point out his flaws, and he certainly has a few big ones, but you'll still never convince me that he meant less to that team than Rose meant to his...or that he didn't have a bigger impact. But, again, the Magic finished 4th in the East with a significantly worse record than the year before...so Dwight had no shot. Chicago's 8th-to-1st turnaround was too good of a story to not win the MVP.

haggis
02-07-2013, 11:53 AM
I've never seen a team with Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden be labeled a 'great' situation. I learned something today.

ManRam
02-07-2013, 12:20 PM
I've never seen a team with Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden be labeled a 'great' situation. I learned something today.

Not sure what post you're referencing, but I'm assuming it's reference to someone saying that as a #1 overall pick he landed in a very good situation.

Name me a #1 overall pick who landed on a team with as much talent as Rose did. It certainly wasn't a "great" amount of talent, but Gordon, Salmons, Hinrich, Brad Miller, Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas...and even the guys they traded that season (Hughes, Gooden...who weren't top minutes getters for those Bulls teams BTW...probably were better than most 6th and 7th options in the NBA at the time, Nocioni), well, there's a decent amount of talent there.

ewing
02-07-2013, 12:33 PM
Not sure what post you're referencing, but I'm assuming it's reference to someone saying that as a #1 overall pick he landed in a very good situation.

Name me a #1 overall pick who landed on a team with as much talent as Rose did. It certainly wasn't a "great" amount of talent, but Gordon, Salmons, Hinrich, Brad Miller, Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas...and even the guys they traded that season (Hughes, Gooden...who weren't top minutes getters for those Bulls teams BTW...probably were better than most 6th and 7th options in the NBA at the time, Nocioni), well, there's a decent amount of talent there.


Timmy and Magic

ManRam
02-07-2013, 01:05 PM
Timmy and Magic

So two guys out of what, 60?

I'm sure if we look far enough back we'll find some more, but I think the point is that it's very rare for a #1 overall pick to land in a decent situation. It obviously wasn't "GREAT", but it was well above average.

David Robinson missing almost all of the 96-97 season was the biggest blessing in disguise ever for San Antonio. Imagine how different things would have been if he were healthy that year....

TheIlladelph16
02-07-2013, 01:24 PM
Great question. Maybe comes with my age, 31. I watched and rooted the MJ Bulls from the first championship.. on. I never questioned MJ's personality/profesionalism off the court because I was too young to care. I remember a park opened in the city around 92 and Jordan wanted 100k to show up and cut the ribbon. Bobby Hanson (Name dropper) did it for free. At the time of MJ I was playing rec league and AAU (Crusader.) Didn't really understand the game like I do now.

Looking back at MJ, yeah not the greatest person but also was never suspended for punching out a fan (Artest), held a team hostage for a trade (Melo & Howard,) or lead the league in T's or flat out a total ******* to his team, refs, and everyone else (D.Cousins.) Not to mention MJ in my opinion was the GOAT when it came to game time. The two years (Baseball) irk me knowing an 8 peat was within grasp.

But overall... that is a great question. I also think the face of this league has changed quite a bit from the MJ Days to the LBJ days. Guys like KD and DRose are breaths of fresh air in a league filled with green smoke.

Great honest response there. I was very young during Jordan's championship runs, and being a kid he was obviously my favorite player. He was the sole reason I even got into basketball at that point. It wasn't until I was older that I got the clearer picture of who Jordan was outside of basketball and some of the baggage that came with playing with him.

I understand why people look at guys like KD and DRose as being the humble superstars who put their team first and what have you. I also believe that if it ever really came down to it, both of those players could potentially leave their cities behind for greener pastures and more money. It's just ironic when you have a guy like Rose who is perceived as the super humble guy and revered for it, while referring to other stars in the league who aren't perceived that way as negative examples. Yet the greatest player ever was essentially a crazy, egomaniac and by all accounts ****head who is revered even more. Its just funny.

It boils down to winning in the end no matter what a fan says.... If Cousins was leading the Kings to multiple championships in beast mode, his antics and demeanor would be completely overlooked. If Rose was continually failing to keep his team competing, the humble superstar story line falls by the wayside in favor of whatever fits the narrative.

SDBearsFan
02-07-2013, 01:39 PM
Rose is extremely talented, but the OP hit the nail on the head, IMO. And news flash to Bulls fans: Rose did not deserve his MVP. There were easily at least 2-3 more deserving players, and his award will go down as one of the weakest MVPs in the history of the NBA. I'm sorry Bulls fans, but this is something you will have to accept at some point.

:laugh:

j11430
02-07-2013, 02:10 PM
I really don't care where you rank him, but he's the reason I watch basketball. He's fun to watch and clearly brings the Bulls from pretty good to really good. I'm not a huge basketball fan, but when he plays I just have to watch.

Maybe he's being a bit overrated by some fans and media outlets. But when a superstar player in any sports comes back from a major injury that happens.

SteBO
02-07-2013, 02:23 PM
Good lord,

It amazes me how some people just never grasp the simple concept of “expectations”. Some you guys need to dig up the old preseason predictions prior to the 2010-2011 NBA Season after LBJ, Wade, Bosh, Boozer, Amare, etc…..all made their decisions in the offseason. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, even entertained the notion that they could win 60+ games (beating every team in the league at least once in the process), finish 1st in their conference when Miami was the big story, and do it while sustaining injuries to Boozer, Noah, and other hey cogs. They were expected to be at most a 4 seed if I remember correctly. While Thibs’ defensive principles deserve a ton of credit, you need to be able to score points too, and Rose carried that team on the offensive end of the floor. That’s why he was the MVP of the league, and quite frankly deserved it in my opinion too. He elevated them to heights they weren’t supposed to sniff.

Also, wasn’t Iverson the league MVP under similar circumstances or at least pretty close to it? This isn’t news people.

ecorrea
02-07-2013, 02:29 PM
thank you stebo. always very sensible. cant wait for the return.

ewing
02-07-2013, 02:43 PM
So two guys out of what, 60?

I'm sure if we look far enough back we'll find some more, but I think the point is that it's very rare for a #1 overall pick to land in a decent situation. It obviously wasn't "GREAT", but it was well above average.

David Robinson missing almost all of the 96-97 season was the biggest blessing in disguise ever for San Antonio. Imagine how different things would have been if he were healthy that year....

I wasn't trying to make a point. I agree with most of your points. You are a good poster. Just like basketball trivia. :)

hotadef
02-07-2013, 02:53 PM
well is d rose overrated is he a bonifide superstar. um these questions are absurd. ask this question you can look at all the teams in the nba. if bulls offered rose in trade for there starting pg and backup pg, even with him hurt how many would turn the bulls down

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 03:16 PM
The thing that sucks about this all is that we probably won't be seeing the same Derrick Rose when he returns and all the nay sayers will start up with the "I told ya so" comments. Prior to the injury, Rose was top 5 in the league. I really hope he can return to 100%

I mentioned that a few pages ago, that people will be lighting up Rose for not being Rose right away. I feel for Bulls fans because of it. Not everyone, in fact almost no one, is AP.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 03:16 PM
Maybe so, but you can't label Rose the "worst MVP" when this has been done many times in the past.

I believe I said one of the worst. You named the other 2 that I would throw in as the 3 weakest MVP seasons by a player.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 03:19 PM
I've never seen a team with Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden be labeled a 'great' situation. I learned something today.

Aren't you leaving out a ton of guys? Fact is, a 49 win team underachieved, jumped 12 teams, to get the #1 pick. There is no better situation to be put in, when you then consider the coaching change that came up later. Rose walked into a team that had already won a playoff series essentially. These are facts dude. Usually, #1 picks are taken by teams that are there for a reason. You know, cause they suck.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 03:20 PM
Timmy and Magic

Magic was before the lottery, it was always wacky back then, and Tim is a perfect answer. Same ****, different reason. Only Tim went to a contender, Rose to a playoff team.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 03:21 PM
well is d rose overrated is he a bonifide superstar. um this questions are absurd. ask this question you can look at all the teams in the nba. if bulls offered rose in trade for there starting pg and back even with him hurt how many ould turn the bulls down

meh, that doesn't necessarily mean much. How many teams would the Wolves have traded Love to for their starting PF last season? Do you consider Love a real superstar?

ManRam
02-07-2013, 03:27 PM
Good lord,

It amazes me how some people just never grasp the simple concept of “expectations”. Some you guys need to dig up the old preseason predictions prior to the 2010-2011 NBA Season after LBJ, Wade, Bosh, Boozer, Amare, etc…..all made their decisions in the offseason. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, even entertained the notion that they could win 60+ games (beating every team in the league at least once in the process), finish 1st in their conference when Miami was the big story, and do it while sustaining injuries to Boozer, Noah, and other hey cogs. They were expected to be at most a 4 seed if I remember correctly. While Thibs’ defensive principles deserve a ton of credit, you need to be able to score points too, and Rose carried that team on the offensive end of the floor. That’s why he was the MVP of the league, and quite frankly deserved it in my opinion too. He elevated them to heights they weren’t supposed to sniff.

Also, wasn’t Iverson the league MVP under similar circumstances or at least pretty close to it? This isn’t news people.

And that's why he won it.

Like I said, I eventually became convinced he deserved it...but he deserved it only because of what the award often seeks to reward. It's often, not always, a team award...and Rose benefited from an amazing change in Chicago, in which he played a large role. The problem is, at the time, people acted like he was the only reason. That's why I was so critical at the time. I think people arguing for Rose often had a misconstrued sense of why that team was so successful.

Him being deserving or not doesn't mean he can't be considered one of the weakest winners. Individually there is no way around it. And saying so doesn't make you a "hater" or anything. Criticism =/= hating.


I'm excited for his return, and I do disagree to an extent with the OP. He will make this Bulls team a bit better. Defense is what makes the Bulls, but Rose is the icing on the cake. Even if he's at 80%, the Bulls become the Heat's biggest threat in the East. I really hope we see them clash in a great series.



And lastly, arguing over "overrated" and "underrated" is the most pointless thing ever. Every player is overrated and underrated by many.

hotadef
02-07-2013, 03:43 PM
meh, that doesn't necessarily mean much. How many teams would the Wolves have traded Love to for their starting PF last season? Do you consider Love a real superstar?

yes love is a superstar. he is an olympian, yes if wolves made him available how man teams would turn him down feeling like they got away with murder

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 03:46 PM
yes love is a superstar. he is an olympian, yes if wolves made him available how man teams would turn him down feeling like they got away with murder

Well, we have different versions of the term I suppose. No big deal.

DR_1
02-07-2013, 04:00 PM
The OP makes some solid points, and I do think Rose is overrated by most, but it doesn't change the fact that he is an amazing talent, and an excellent player, top 20 in the NBA, and a top 3-5 PG. But what gets me honestly is when people try and tell me he brought a lottery team to the playoffs in year one, and that he has never missed the playoffs, while they completely ignore the circumstances. Hell, the Bulls are 46-28 without him the last 2 seasons. His MVP was a weak one imo, I get why he won it, I have no issue with it, but don't act like he was the best player in the NBA that year, not even close.

All that being said, he is fun to watch, a great kid, and I hope he fully recovers, because he is a huge talent.

If this is not blatantly trolling Bulls fan I don't know what is.

SteBO
02-07-2013, 04:35 PM
And that's why he won it.

Like I said, I eventually became convinced he deserved it...but he deserved it only because of what the award often seeks to reward. It's often, not always, a team award...and Rose benefited from an amazing change in Chicago, in which he played a large role. The problem is, at the time, people acted like he was the only reason. That's why I was so critical at the time. I think people arguing for Rose often had a misconstrued sense of why that team was so successful.

Him being deserving or not doesn't mean he can't be considered one of the weakest winners. Individually there is no way around it. And saying so doesn't make you a "hater" or anything. Criticism =/= hating.


I'm excited for his return, and I do disagree to an extent with the OP. He will make this Bulls team a bit better. Defense is what makes the Bulls, but Rose is the icing on the cake. Even if he's at 80%, the Bulls become the Heat's biggest threat in the East. I really hope we see them clash in a great series.



And lastly, arguing over "overrated" and "underrated" is the most pointless thing ever. Every player is overrated and underrated by many.

OK, but why should he be considered one of the weakest winners? I don’t think what you or Hawkeye are saying warrants the “hater” label, and yes I do recall a lot of Bulls fans saying that it’s solely because of Rose why they went as far as they did. However, there’s already an award out there for the other factor of the Bulls’ success (COY, which rightfully happened to go to Thibs that year). I don’t know, I just think to call Rose one of the weakest MVP winners in the history of this league is going to be viewed as a slight because even after all the injuries that team had to endure that season, they still managed to handle the best teams, win 60+ games, play hard every night, and do all of the things we as NBA fans want to view on a night in night out basis from not just our favorite teams, but from all teams. The reason they pulled this off despite the setbacks? Derrick Rose. He was their only consistent source of offense. Criticizing him, the individual player, is one thing. But I think to knock his accomplishment by calling it “weak” because of the other factors that gave a helping hand in the Bulls being as great as they were, will bring out the hard-core Bulls fans that will inevitably label you a “hater”.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 04:42 PM
OK, but why should he be considered one of the weakest winners? I don’t think what you or Hawkeye are saying warrants the “hater” label, and yes I do recall a lot of Bulls fans saying that it’s solely because of Rose why they went as far as they did. However, there’s already an award out there for the other factor of the Bulls’ success (COY, which rightfully happened to go to Thibs that year). I don’t know, I just think to call Rose one of the weakest MVP winners in the history of this league is going to be viewed as a slight because even after all the injuries that team had to endure that season, they still managed to handle the best teams, win 60+ games, play hard every night, and do all of the things we as NBA fans want to view on a night in night out basis from not just our favorite teams, but from all teams. The reason they pulled this off despite the setbacks? Derrick Rose. He was their only consistent source of offense. Criticizing him, the individual player, is one thing. But I think to knock his accomplishment by calling it “weak” because of the other factors that gave a helping hand in the Bulls being as great as they were, will bring out the hard-core Bulls fans that will inevitably label you a “hater”.

I call it weak because I think there were 3-4 players simply better than Rose that year. But honestly, I have been on record as saying I think they have gotten the MVP award wrong a ton of times, so I am not aiming it at Rose specifically.

SteBO
02-07-2013, 04:43 PM
If this is not blatantly trolling Bulls fan I don't know what is.

but it doesn't change the fact that he is an amazing talent, and an excellent player, top 20 in the NBA, and a top 3-5 PG.

All that being said, he is fun to watch, a great kid, and I hope he fully recovers, because he is a huge talent.

This is exactly what ManRam was referring to. You’re accusing Hawk of trolling, even after admitting that he understands why he won it. He may have an opinion differing from your own, to which I somewhat disagree, but even you have to admit that there a lot of Bulls fans running rabid on this board, placing him on this holy pedestal hailing him as the greatest thing to ever walk on an NBA basketball floor. I take it you’re one of those fans based on this response to an innocent post with some fact behind it……

effen5
02-07-2013, 04:47 PM
Aren't you leaving out a ton of guys? Fact is, a 49 win team underachieved, jumped 12 teams, to get the #1 pick. There is no better situation to be put in, when you then consider the coaching change that came up later. Rose walked into a team that had already won a playoff series essentially. These are facts dude. Usually, #1 picks are taken by teams that are there for a reason. You know, cause they suck.

Really? Because most people thought that 49 team over-achieved came back to reality, jumped 12 teams and got the #1 pick.

Look at their record....Can honestly tell me that the 49 team under-achieved or did they actually over-achieve?

05-06 41-41
06-07 49-33
07-08 33-49
08-09 41-41

The fact is this, Rose took a team with 10 new players (Omer, Keith Bogans, Carlos Boozer, Rasual Butler, John Lucas, Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer, CJ watson, Kurt Thomas, Brian Scal) a new head coach and coaching staff, new coaching schemes, and a team with its two superstars burdened with injuries. Boozer (missed 23 games) Noah(missed 34 games).The difference between the Bulls and every other team that year….They didn’t struggle 2 games in a row. You can’t honestly tell me Miami was better than the Bulls in the regular season that year because they weren’t. The reason why they didn't struggle? Drose.

SteBO
02-07-2013, 04:47 PM
I call it weak because I think there were 3-4 players simply better than Rose that year. But honestly, I have been on record as saying I think they have gotten the MVP award wrong a ton of times, so I am not aiming it at Rose specifically.
3 or 4?

LBJ and Dwight are the only two I can recall being so heavily advocated for over Rose. I wouldn't have been against either of these choices, because you could make legitamite arguments for both. But I think what did LBJ in that year was obvious petty hatred for the guy making a FA decision, and as for Dwight, the Magic underachieved, despite Howard's phenomenal play.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 04:51 PM
Really? Because most people thought that 49 team over-achieved came back to reality, jumped 12 teams and got the #1 pick.

Look at their record....Can honestly tell me that the 49 team under-achieved or did they actually over-achieve?

05-06 41-41
06-07 49-33
07-08 33-49
08-09 41-41

The fact is this, Rose took a team with 10 new players (Omer, Keith Bogans, Carlos Boozer, Rasual Butler, John Lucas, Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer, CJ watson, Kurt Thomas, Brian Scal) a new head coach and coaching staff, new coaching schemes, and a team with its two superstars burdened with injuries. Boozer (missed 23 games) Noah(missed 34 games).The difference between the Bulls and every other team that year….They didn’t struggle 2 games in a row. You can’t honestly tell me Miami was better than the Bulls in the regular season that year because they weren’t.

Its still a far more ideal situation to walk into than the normal #1 picks gets. Don't you see that? Most #1 picks are drafted by perennial lottery teams. The ones who are not, are either teams that had no business with that pick (the Bulls that year), or a good team that had devastating injuries (Miami that same year).

Rose has had playoff talent around him, and one of the best coaches in the NBA since he suited up. This can't be denied. I never said Rose wasn't a star caliber player one time in this, or any other thread. But acting like he carried a team in a Bron-esque way is ludicrous to me. Do you want to know why the Bulls won so many games? Sure, Rose was a huge part of it. So was the defensive noose they put around teams. The Bulls defense simply wore teams down, obvious from the 4th quarter differentials and opposing teams efficiency numbers.

I understand why he won MVP, even if there were 3-4 players that had better seasons. I just hate that argument that he brought a lottery team into the playoffs. That is the same thing Melo fans say, while ignoring what went on with the team around Melo.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 04:52 PM
Of course Miami was not as good that year, but are we now just going straight off team record for who gets the MVP?

May as well mail it to Durant right now.

effen5
02-07-2013, 05:04 PM
Its still a far more ideal situation to walk into than the normal #1 picks gets. Don't you see that? Most #1 picks are drafted by perennial lottery teams. The ones who are not, are either teams that had no business with that pick (the Bulls that year), or a good team that had devastating injuries (Miami that same year).

Rose has had playoff talent around him, and one of the best coaches in the NBA since he suited up. This can't be denied. I never said Rose wasn't a star caliber player one time in this, or any other thread. But acting like he carried a team in a Bron-esque way is ludicrous to me. Do you want to know why the Bulls won so many games? Sure, Rose was a huge part of it. So was the defensive noose they put around teams. The Bulls defense simply wore teams down, obvious from the 4th quarter differentials and opposing teams efficiency numbers.

I understand why he won MVP, even if there were 3-4 players that had better seasons. I just hate that argument that he brought a lottery team into the playoffs. That is the same thing Melo fans say, while ignoring what went on with the team around Melo.

Really? This forum is so hypocritical it amazes to me. I’m glad you see that he’s had talent but what about his rookie year? He only had Noah and Deng both underachieving with a moron of a coach in Vinnie Del Negro and at the same time, where this exact same forum heavily criticized Noah and Deng saying they would never be all stars.

The point is, Rose raised everybody’s game that year. If there was no Rose, I guarantee you, Thibs would have burned everybody out right now and Thibs would be on a different team coaching. If there was no Rose, nobody on this team would have bought in Thibs system. If there was no Rose, Deng would never had been an all star. You just need to watch a lot more Bulls games. Bulls fans in the Bulls forum knows what Rose brings. Yes Thibs defense simply wore teams out…but guess what, this team still needs to outscore the other team, and that is difficult when Boozer your 80 million dollar player is out, when Noah isn’t there for the tip in, Taj hasn’t developed an offensive game (still might I add even though it has improved), Omer had no offensive game, Bogans brought you 6 points a game, I mean where is the offensive coming from? This is why Rose carried that team that year, he carried the Bulls team offensively.

effen5
02-07-2013, 05:09 PM
I’m still confused on what major talent the Bulls had in Rose’s rookie year.

Luol Deng
Drew Gooden
Ben Gordon
Aaron Gray
Kirk Hinrich
Larry Hughes
Lindsey Hunter
Linton Johnson
Brad Miller
Demetris Nichols
Joakim Noah
Andres Nocioni
Anthony Roberson
Derrick Rose
John Salmons
Thabo Sefolosha
Cedric Simmons
Tim Thomas
Tyrus Thomas


That is their roster. I mean Jesus Christ, we barely made the playoffs that year. They are all below average outside of Noah and Deng.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 05:11 PM
Really? This forum is so hypocritical it amazes to me. I’m glad you see that he’s had talent but what about his rookie year? He only had Noah and Deng both underachieving with a moron of a coach in Vinnie Del Negro and at the same time, where this exact same forum heavily criticized Noah and Deng saying they would never be all stars.

The point is, Rose raised everybody’s game that year. If there was no Rose, I guarantee you, Thibs would have burned everybody out right now and Thibs would be on a different team coaching. If there was no Rose, nobody on this team would have bought in Thibs system. If there was no Rose, Deng would never had been an all star. You just need to watch a lot more Bulls games. Bulls fans in the Bulls forum knows what Rose brings. Yes Thibs defense simply wore teams out…but guess what, this team still needs to outscore the other team, and that is difficult when Boozer your 80 million dollar player is out, when Noah isn’t there for the tip in, Taj hasn’t developed an offensive game (still might I add even though it has improved), Omer had no offensive game, Bogans brought you 6 points a game, I mean where is the offensive coming from? This is why Rose carried that team that year, he carried the Bulls team offensively.

I disagree that the Bulls were not still a pretty good team minus Rose that year, their defense was just ridiculous.

All I am saying dude, is that he walked into a more ideal situation than most #1 picks get. So to listen to the whole, "he took a lottery team to the playoffs" deal annoys me. Same with any star unless that team was a perennial loser and that one addition made the difference. How often does that happen? I am not saying Rose walked into a Duncan situation, I am saying he walked into a much better deal than LeBron, Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, and most #1 picks walk into.

I really get annoyed when you guys ignore how awesome the Bulls defense was that year. I get that Rose carried the offense, but your defense was the bigger reason you won games.

46-28 since his MVP year without him. Not saying he is not EASILY the reason they become contenders versus just being really good. But that roster/coaching staff is not bad dude.

Kyben36
02-07-2013, 05:13 PM
James is a *****, that is all. actualy derrick is nowhere near James's level but the point of the awward is who is the most valuable, at the time, rose was clearly more valuable than james for the bulls than james was for the heat. that being said, nobody is saying he is the best player in the world, but he is a hell of a good player, IMO top 5 in the league at this point, as long as he comes back healthy. James and Durrant are clearly up in the top 5, but rose could arguably beat out anyone else as long as he comes back 100%

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 05:16 PM
I’m still confused on what major talent the Bulls had in Rose’s rookie year.

Luol Deng
Drew Gooden
Ben Gordon
Aaron Gray
Kirk Hinrich
Larry Hughes
Lindsey Hunter
Linton Johnson
Brad Miller
Demetris Nichols
Joakim Noah
Andres Nocioni
Anthony Roberson
Derrick Rose
John Salmons
Thabo Sefolosha
Cedric Simmons
Tim Thomas
Tyrus Thomas


That is their roster. I mean Jesus Christ, we barely made the playoffs that year. They are all below average outside of Noah and Deng.

Major? I said playoff help. Its the east dude. And don't you think most young guys would love to have a great roster around them and a great coach around them as quickly as Rose eventually got it? My god, that is all I am saying.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 05:18 PM
James is a *****, that is all. actualy derrick is nowhere near James's level but the point of the awward is who is the most valuable, at the time, rose was clearly more valuable than james for the bulls than james was for the heat. that being said, nobody is saying he is the best player in the world, but he is a hell of a good player, IMO top 5 in the league at this point, as long as he comes back healthy. James and Durrant are clearly up in the top 5, but rose could arguably beat out anyone else as long as he comes back 100%

Yeah, and that is why I was totally fine with Rose getting the award. It just depends on how you define MVP really. To me, its best player in the league. But I get others have a different perspective of it, so I am fine with their answer, if it seems reasonable.

effen5
02-07-2013, 05:29 PM
Major? I said playoff help. Its the east dude. And don't you think most young guys would love to have a great roster around them and a great coach around them as quickly as Rose eventually got it? My god, that is all I am saying.

What great roster? We had a **** roster Rose’s rookie year….it was a complete mess outside of Jo and Deng like I’ve been saying.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 05:35 PM
What great roster? We had a **** roster Rose’s rookie year….it was a complete mess outside of Jo and Deng like I’ve been saying.

I am speaking after his rookie year. It didn't take long to shape it and get Thibs in there.

ManRam
02-07-2013, 05:40 PM
OK, but why should he be considered one of the weakest winners?

Because individually he was :shrug:

I don't know what else to say. He deserved it I think, but how does he stack up individually to other winners? Pretty poorly.

I mean, it is what it is. If I get bashed for saying he's one of the weakest MVP winners ever, so be it. He still won it, he's got the award, it's in the record books and he deserved it...but that doesn't change the fact of the matter...and nothing says people can't talk about it.

effen5
02-07-2013, 05:42 PM
I am speaking after his rookie year. It didn't take long to shape it and get Thibs in there.

Okay I get that but we all know that’s an extreme case with the whole Lebronathon but it doesn’t change the fact that Boozer and Noah struggled under Thibs first year. Rose still did majority of the lifting offensively.

ManRam
02-07-2013, 05:45 PM
nevermind

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 05:46 PM
Okay I get that but we all know that’s an extreme case with the whole Lebronathon but it doesn’t change the fact that Boozer and Noah struggled under Thibs first year. Rose still did majority of the lifting offensively.

Never denied that. But the Bulls strength was not their offense, it was their suffocating defense. Remove Rose from that 60 win team, they are still going to fight for HCA, but be roadkill in round 1.

Rose doesn't make them a playoff team since 2010, he makes them a contender.

Cool007
02-07-2013, 05:56 PM
I’m still confused on what major talent the Bulls had in Rose’s rookie year.

Luol Deng
Drew Gooden
Ben Gordon
Aaron Gray
Kirk Hinrich
Larry Hughes
Lindsey Hunter
Linton Johnson
Brad Miller
Demetris Nichols
Joakim Noah
Andres Nocioni
Anthony Roberson
Derrick Rose
John Salmons
Thabo Sefolosha
Cedric Simmons
Tim Thomas
Tyrus Thomas


That is their roster. I mean Jesus Christ, we barely made the playoffs that year. They are all below average outside of Noah and Deng.

Not to mention Deng had missed games and so did Hinrich and others. Noah was nowhere near what he is now. Bulls had few nutcases who thought they were superstars in Gooden and Hughes.

I remember Bulls were like 12 or so games below 50% in late February and Rose came out with comments "We WILL make the playoffs and face Cavs in the 1st round" guess what? he went off crazy to finish the season and brought the Bulls team (IMO single handedly) to the playoffs.

It's much easier to look at team on paper and say it was easy for this player or he was in good situation. Guess what Lakers are a damn HOFer loaded team and still can't be in the top 8 seed. It's not always how it seems.

effen5
02-07-2013, 05:57 PM
Really? Remove Rose from a team with no Boozer and no Noah? I’d say 6-8 seed. One of the reasons why we’re doing so well this year without Rose is because Boozer is starting to play like the old Boozer and Noah is playing at an all star level.

ewing
02-07-2013, 05:58 PM
What great roster? We had a **** roster Rose’s rookie year….it was a complete mess outside of Jo and Deng like I’ve been saying.


********, Deng, Gordon, Noc, Salmons, Kurt, and a ton of versatile bigs. If you consider this a **** roaster i'm going to assume you aren't old enough to have watched the team in the early 2000s and have never followed a **** team

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 06:00 PM
Really? Remove Rose from a team with no Boozer and no Noah? I’d say 6-8 seed. One of the reasons why we’re doing so well this year without Rose is because Boozer is starting to play like the old Boozer and Noah is playing at an all star level.

I simply disagree. The offense would have slid to bottom 1/3rd, defense still #1. In the east, that spells enough wins to fight for HCA. Come playoff time, with no options to score, it would have been one and done though.

Cool007
02-07-2013, 06:01 PM
Never denied that. But the Bulls strength was not their offense, it was their suffocating defense. Remove Rose from that 60 win team, they are still going to fight for HCA, but be roadkill in round 1.

Rose doesn't make them a playoff team since 2010, he makes them a contender.

That's the thing. Without Rose, Bulls are a 45-48 win team that would lose in the 1st round but with Rose, Bulls are a 62 win team and a ECF team.

For example when Jordan retired, Bulls still had a good team based on great defense and leading by Pippen. Bulls still won 50+ games and did great in the playoffs. Does that mean Jordan is not HOFer or GOAT? NO. That means Bulls were still a good team but with Jordan, they win it all and that's why Jordan is the GOAT.

Not comparing Jordan and ROse but just the impact on the team as constructed.

Cool007
02-07-2013, 06:02 PM
********, Deng, Gordon, Noc, Salmons, Kurt, and a ton of versatile bigs. If you consider this a **** roaster i'm going to assume you aren't old enough to have watched the team in the early 2000s and have never followed a **** team

No, that 2000s team were BOTTOM seeder and laughing stock in the NBA.

The other players may look good on paper but they were pretty damn bad and basically at times NET NEGATIVE.

Cool007
02-07-2013, 06:04 PM
Really? Remove Rose from a team with no Boozer and no Noah? I’d say 6-8 seed. One of the reasons why we’re doing so well this year without Rose is because Boozer is starting to play like the old Boozer and Noah is playing at an all star level.

+1. People forget that both Noah and Boozer missed ton of games that year and Bulls had 100 year old Kurt Thomas starting in their place and Keith "the Brick" bogans was starting as a 2-guard.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 06:04 PM
That's the thing. Without Rose, Bulls are a 45-48 win team that would lose in the 1st round but with Rose, Bulls are a 62 win team and a ECF team.

For example when Jordan retired, Bulls still had a good team based on great defense and leading by Pippen. Bulls still won 50+ games and did great in the playoffs. Does that mean Jordan is not HOFer or GOAT? NO. That means Bulls were still a good team but with Jordan, they win it all and that's why Jordan is the GOAT.

Not comparing Jordan and ROse but just the impact on the team as constructed.

exactly. Never said Rose wasn't the catalyst that makes them a contender, simply said that is you remove him from the team, they still make the playoffs. The same can probably be said about most contenders. Take their best guy off, they are still making the cut.

DaBUU
02-07-2013, 06:17 PM
I love DRose threads, cuz in DRose threads the NBA forum fellas claim the rest of the Bulls are so good they don't even need him, overrated. But in threads where there are rumors of a trade involving superstars, the rest of the Bulls suck and no one wants them, the team is only good cuz of Rose.

Shammyguy3
02-07-2013, 06:39 PM
Good lord,

It amazes me how some people just never grasp the simple concept of “expectations”. Some you guys need to dig up the old preseason predictions prior to the 2010-2011 NBA Season after LBJ, Wade, Bosh, Boozer, Amare, etc…..all made their decisions in the offseason. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, even entertained the notion that they could win 60+ games (beating every team in the league at least once in the process), finish 1st in their conference when Miami was the big story, and do it while sustaining injuries to Boozer, Noah, and other hey cogs. They were expected to be at most a 4 seed if I remember correctly. While Thibs’ defensive principles deserve a ton of credit, you need to be able to score points too, and Rose carried that team on the offensive end of the floor. That’s why he was the MVP of the league, and quite frankly deserved it in my opinion too. He elevated them to heights they weren’t supposed to sniff.

Also, wasn’t Iverson the league MVP under similar circumstances or at least pretty close to it? This isn’t news people.

All of this.


OK, but why should he be considered one of the weakest winners? I don’t think what you or Hawkeye are saying warrants the “hater” label, and yes I do recall a lot of Bulls fans saying that it’s solely because of Rose why they went as far as they did. However, there’s already an award out there for the other factor of the Bulls’ success (COY, which rightfully happened to go to Thibs that year). I don’t know, I just think to call Rose one of the weakest MVP winners in the history of this league is going to be viewed as a slight because even after all the injuries that team had to endure that season, they still managed to handle the best teams, win 60+ games, play hard every night, and do all of the things we as NBA fans want to view on a night in night out basis from not just our favorite teams, but from all teams. The reason they pulled this off despite the setbacks? Derrick Rose. He was their only consistent source of offense. Criticizing him, the individual player, is one thing. But I think to knock his accomplishment by calling it “weak” because of the other factors that gave a helping hand in the Bulls being as great as they were, will bring out the hard-core Bulls fans that will inevitably label you a “hater”.

All of this as well.


Really? Remove Rose from a team with no Boozer and no Noah? I’d say 6-8 seed. One of the reasons why we’re doing so well this year without Rose is because Boozer is starting to play like the old Boozer and Noah is playing at an all star level.

In 2010-11 when Rose won the MVP award: Boozer played only 59 games; Noah played 48 games.

Rose averaged 25.0ppg 7.7apg 3.4tov 4.1rpg playing 37.4 minutes each game.
He posted a 55.0ts% 48.5efg% 113 ORtg; 38.7ast% 13.1tov%
And he had a usage percentage of 32.2usg% (good for 2nd in the league, only behind Kobe Bryant).
Team was 11th in ORtg at 108.3 and 1st in DRtg at 100.3

Factor in that the only players on the roster from the previous year included Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, and if we want to be technical James Johsnon (only 123 minutes played with the Bulls that season). All new players outside of those three, where Noah missed 34 games, coupled with a completely different coach.


For comparison, Iverson being the MVP in 2001 posted the following:
31.1ppg 4.6apg 3.3tov 3.8rpg in 42.0mpg
51.8ts% 44.7efg% 106 ORtg; 23.0ast% 10.0tov% and lead the league with a 35.9usg%
Team was 56-26 with Larry Brown winning COY. Team was 13th in ORtg at 103.6 and 5th in DRtg at 98.9


Any fan that says he was one of the "worst" MVPs has every right to think so, I just disagree. But when fans say he didn't deserve it, then that's a problem.

effen5
02-07-2013, 07:27 PM
********, Deng, Gordon, Noc, Salmons, Kurt, and a ton of versatile bigs. If you consider this a **** roaster i'm going to assume you aren't old enough to have watched the team in the early 2000s and have never followed a **** team

Really? You mean the old days when we picked up Ron mercer, jalen rose, Travis best? No **** we were a bottom feeder then.

effen5
02-07-2013, 07:29 PM
****in I remember those days like it was yesterday, ran into Marcus fizer at the grocery store and had a great convo about picking up jalen.

ManRam
02-07-2013, 07:30 PM
I love DRose threads, cuz in DRose threads the NBA forum fellas claim the rest of the Bulls are so good they don't even need him, overrated. But in threads where there are rumors of a trade involving superstars, the rest of the Bulls suck and no one wants them, the team is only good cuz of Rose.

Aside from a few idiots, no one here is saying "the Bulls don't need Rose". The problem is, that's all Bulls fans see...in every post that doesn't involve praising His Holiness.

effen5
02-07-2013, 07:39 PM
Aside from a few idiots, no one here is saying "the Bulls don't need Rose". The problem is, that's all Bulls fans see...in every post that doesn't involve praising His Holiness.

No the problem is that people is sayin he is overrated which is the farthest from the truth.

ManRam
02-07-2013, 10:21 PM
No the problem is that people is sayin he is overrated which is the farthest from the truth.

Is it?

Depends on how people rate him. I think a lot of people do overrate him. I think a lot of people in this thread have done just that. I think a lot of people underrate him too.

People were calling him the best PG in the game. That's overrating him IMO.

People were saying he wasn't better than Rondo the past two years. That's underrating him IMO

:shrug:

I do think a lot of Rose fans think that it's not OK to criticize the dude...and that's stupid.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2013, 10:26 PM
No the problem is that people is sayin he is overrated which is the farthest from the truth.

depends how you rate him...

Southsideheat
02-08-2013, 12:43 AM
Another award winning PSD thread. Way to go guys, continue to give time to the stupid.

nirvana235
02-08-2013, 12:44 AM
Another award winning PSD thread. Way to go guys, continue to give time to the stupid.

You my friend, have a ****ing awesome avatar.

Southsideheat
02-08-2013, 12:47 AM
You my friend, have a ****ing awesome avatar.

You my friend, are awesome for noticing.

ewing
02-08-2013, 08:08 AM
No, that 2000s team were BOTTOM seeder and laughing stock in the NBA.

The other players may look good on paper but they were pretty damn bad and basically at times NET NEGATIVE.

and that's who normally gets the #1 overall pick. Rose walked into a very good situation for a guy taken 1 overall. That's all anyone has said.

ewing
02-08-2013, 08:12 AM
Really? You mean the old days when we picked up Ron mercer, jalen rose, Travis best? No **** we were a bottom feeder then.

yep, now that is a **** roaster

poleandreel
02-08-2013, 08:57 AM
I just can't wait til the playoffs are here and Rose is fully healthy.

I do think the Bulls (if Rose is healthy) will beat the Heat if that matchup comes to fruition.

Then will see what you posters who are skull deep in LBJ are saying.

So the bulls got much worse with the loss of Asik, Roses ACL injury, and still no sg while Miami won the championship, beat the Bulls in 2010/2011 and have since gotten allen, battier, lewis etc. Why on earth would the bulls win now after not winning any other time?

HYFR
02-08-2013, 10:45 AM
Most posters in this thread are saying that rose is the guy that pushes them over the top. Without rose they are still a playoff team especially in the east. IMO the bulls are the definition of teamwork, guys know their roles and are selfless. Those guys bust their *** every night which is something you just don't see in the nba.

SlimKid
02-08-2013, 12:00 PM
Aside from a few idiots, no one here is saying "the Bulls don't need Rose". The problem is, that's all Bulls fans see...in every post that doesn't involve praising His Holiness.

This!

Pierzynski4Prez
02-08-2013, 01:26 PM
So the bulls got much worse with the loss of Asik, Roses ACL injury, and still no sg while Miami won the championship, beat the Bulls in 2010/2011 and have since gotten allen, battier, lewis etc. Why on earth would the bulls win now after not winning any other time?

So what you're saying is that players cannot improve. And that the only way a team can get better is to go out and sign the best aging Free Agents every year. If the Mavs were to play the Heat in the finals this year, the Mavs would definitely win because they beat them in 2011 Finals, and the Heat still have the same weaknesses, interior defense and rebounding. So you would just assume the same result, correct?

Most of the Bulls core are either just entering their prime, or have not even gotten there yet. Should we just expect the same thing every year from every team. The Heat have picked up players that are not getting any better as the year goes on, and most likely each year will be declining a bit.

BULLSFAN0810
02-08-2013, 03:33 PM
lol..same **** i heard about Jordan. Im not saying Rose is Jordan,but the excuses are very similar. Is he a PG or SG? He shoots too much. Isnt a team player. Isnt consistent wit his jumper. Cant play defense.I here this and know we got a REAL WINNER. how can a guy be heralded by his team mates and the league and almost the majority of the "FANS" say the opposite. I used to try to convince ppl ...but i know we got a winner,youre just mad your team doesnt have the same type of guy. We in Chicago imho have the right to crown someone "The Man" we seen Jordan up close and personal. Its not like were saying deng is the best,or Boozer. Its funny Rose didnt desrve the MVP or isnt considered the top of his position or tops in the league,yet he won MVP AND IS CONSIDERED TOP 5 BY HIS PEERS? SOUNDS LIKE HATE..AND I LOVE IT..IT MEANS WE GOT ONE...NO ONE HATES A NOBODY..YOU GOTTA BE SOMEBODY. Teams dont look for the next Rondo or CP3 ..if theyre there they draft them, but everyone is looking for the next Rose or James. DYNAMIC PLAYERS

ManRam
02-08-2013, 03:49 PM
lol..same **** i heard about Jordan. Im not saying Rose is Jordan,but the excuses are very similar. Is he a PG or SG? He shoots too much. Isnt a team player. Isnt consistent wit his jumper. Cant play defense.I here this and know we got a REAL WINNER. how can a guy be heralded by his team mates and the league and almost the majority of the "FANS" say the opposite. I used to try to convince ppl ...but i know we got a winner,youre just mad your team doesnt have the same type of guy. We in Chicago imho have the right to crown someone "The Man" we seen Jordan up close and personal. Its not like were saying deng is the best,or Boozer. Its funny Rose didnt desrve the MVP or isnt considered the top of his position or tops in the league,yet he won MVP AND IS CONSIDERED TOP 5 BY HIS PEERS? SOUNDS LIKE HATE..AND I LOVE IT..IT MEANS WE GOT ONE...NO ONE HATES A NOBODY..YOU GOTTA BE SOMEBODY. Teams dont look for the next Rondo or CP3 ..if theyre there they draft them, but everyone is looking for the next Rose or James. DYNAMIC PLAYERS

Cool post!

boateng
02-08-2013, 04:17 PM
Is it?

Depends on how people rate him. I think a lot of people do overrate him. I think a lot of people in this thread have done just that. I think a lot of people underrate him too.

People were calling him the best PG in the game. That's overrating him IMO.

People were saying he wasn't better than Rondo the past two years. That's underrating him IMO

:shrug:

I do think a lot of Rose fans think that it's not OK to criticize the dude...and that's stupid.

he is the best imo though
well it's between him and cp3. i think cp3 gets really overrated. people make fun of melo but cp3 have never been past the 2nd round/
cp3 has never won an mvl either.

kozelkid
02-08-2013, 04:22 PM
he is the best imo though
well it's between him and cp3. i think cp3 gets really overrated. people make fun of melo but cp3 have never been past the 2nd round/
cp3 has never won an mvl either.

Well he was absolutely robbed of an MVP in 07-08...

DumDum
02-10-2013, 02:15 AM
OP must be a heat or knicks fan and is scared of the return...

O bulls fans still are butt hurt about this post O 12 pages worth huh. hands down better than any garbage that you ever wrote on Psd I'm just part timing this ish I have a lot more hobbies I can't keep track of you small fries bulls fans



PSD's ROY 2012

DumDum
02-10-2013, 02:30 AM
It's a troll thread, expect it to gain momentum when DRose does return. Since only idiots expect him to straightaway return at the level he was playing before he got injured.

So expect more trolling once he starts playing. I must say the OP is a visionary troll, he's ahead of his less talented colleagues.

everything but the troll part but hey I take it it seems like people who can read above the 8th grade level are all trolls on PSD everyone else is a Dum dum

trolls > dum dums

DumDum
02-10-2013, 02:42 AM
The OP makes some solid points, and I do think Rose is overrated by most, but it doesn't change the fact that he is an amazing talent, and an excellent player, top 20 in the NBA, and a top 3-5 PG. But what gets me honestly is when people try and tell me he brought a lottery team to the playoffs in year one, and that he has never missed the playoffs, while they completely ignore the circumstances. Hell, the Bulls are 46-28 without him the last 2 seasons. His MVP was a weak one imo, I get why he won it, I have no issue with it, but don't act like he was the best player in the NBA that year, not even close.

All that being said, he is fun to watch, a great kid, and I hope he fully recovers, because he is a huge talent.

I only read hawkeye and Manram posts :D

everyone else doesn't watch basketball they blog about basketball

boateng
02-10-2013, 06:12 AM
I only read hawkeye and Manram posts :D

everyone else doesn't watch basketball the blog about basketball

Well hawkeye is wrong IMO. Rose is clearly a top 2 PG and top 10 player.

Doogolas
02-10-2013, 06:27 AM
With Rose in the previous two seasons:

94-27.

Without him the past two and this one?

16-10 the past two and 30-20 this year. That's 46-30 total

That's a winning percentage of .777 with Rose, in those two years .615, this year .6 and total .605.

So if we go by the two years only, it's -.162, that's like taking this year's Heat from a 33-14 team to a 25-22 team.

And if we use the three year sample size, we're talking -.172 or Miami's 33-14 to 25-22. (so about the same, not surprising given the similar overall records).

I dunno. I think Rose is pretty ****ing valuable. So you can say, "Their record is great without him" but their record is only great relative to the league. Not relative to how amazing they are with him. Relative to that, their record is kind of **** without Rose.

I mean, if the Heat were without LeBron and they went 19-16 the rest of the way, everyone would be saying he was UNANIMOUSLY the MVP because they went from best in the conference to about .500 without him.

Gotta look at context here guys. It's not as simple as raw record.

DumDum
03-11-2013, 04:50 AM
Two yrs til he put up worth while numbers

TheLegend
03-11-2013, 07:30 AM
The OP sound like a hater. Derrick Rose is the best pg in basketball when healthy.

smiddy012
03-11-2013, 08:10 AM
O bulls fans still are butt hurt about this post O 12 pages worth huh. hands down better than any garbage that you ever wrote on Psd I'm just part timing this ish I have a lot more hobbies I can't keep track of you small fries bulls fans.

"I said something and it got a large reaction, therefore I win the argument."

"I'm just part-timing this ****, that's why I don't know ****."

felixng2012
03-11-2013, 08:23 AM
The OP sound like a hater. Derrick Rose is the best pg in basketball when healthy.

Cute.

D1JM
03-11-2013, 08:27 AM
With Rose in the previous two seasons:

94-27.

Without him the past two and this one?

16-10 the past two and 30-20 this year. That's 46-30 total

That's a winning percentage of .777 with Rose, in those two years .615, this year .6 and total .605.

So if we go by the two years only, it's -.162, that's like taking this year's Heat from a 33-14 team to a 25-22 team.

And if we use the three year sample size, we're talking -.172 or Miami's 33-14 to 25-22. (so about the same, not surprising given the similar overall records).

I dunno. I think Rose is pretty ****ing valuable. So you can say, "Their record is great without him" but their record is only great relative to the league. Not relative to how amazing they are with him. Relative to that, their record is kind of **** without Rose.

I mean, if the Heat were without LeBron and they went 19-16 the rest of the way, everyone would be saying he was UNANIMOUSLY the MVP because they went from best in the conference to about .500 without him.

Gotta look at context here guys. It's not as simple as raw record.

Don't overwhelm the OP with those numbers. He doesnt care about facts. Eyes don't lie

sager729
03-11-2013, 08:30 AM
It is funny because 95% of fans on PSD can't be objective. Especially in the NBA forum, not worth my time.

1-800-STFU
03-11-2013, 11:17 AM
You guys fall for trolls so easily.

He115ing
03-11-2013, 12:03 PM
Its just sad how troll threads get a ton of exposure and good threads just get buried. Internets FTW!

Stinkyoutsider
03-11-2013, 12:33 PM
Bulls can't score and that's what Derek Rose does the best. Create offense and score.

He's exactly what our team needs. Our other players (and the team as a whole) hustle, rebound, and play great defense. But we can't create offense and can't score. Without Rose, we have a good regular season team but when the playoffs come and defenses tighten up, we'll need someone to create. And that guy is Rose.

I think a lot of people judge Rose on what he's good at and not his complete game when talking about other players. I'm not sure why that is, but I think Rose is as good as anyone in the league at getting his own shot. But when you factor in complete games, that's when Rose's value comes down some. He's still a fantastic player and I'm glad we have him, but I can't honestly say he's on Lebron's or Durant's level right now.

Maybe, he's not even the best point guard? I'm biased because Rose plays for us, but I would honestly take Paul or Westbrook first.

KobeGotDaRapies
03-11-2013, 12:49 PM
cant wait till the spring themed oreos come out with the yellow cream in middle.... yum!

Got them they taste just like regular oreos. UMMMMHMMMMM!

Shmontaine
03-11-2013, 01:32 PM
Two yrs til he put up worth while numbers

same time since you made a worthwhile comment...

Dnovakovic099
03-11-2013, 02:03 PM
With Rose in the previous two seasons:

94-27.

Without him the past two and this one?

16-10 the past two and 30-20 this year. That's 46-30 total

That's a winning percentage of .777 with Rose, in those two years .615, this year .6 and total .605.

So if we go by the two years only, it's -.162, that's like taking this year's Heat from a 33-14 team to a 25-22 team.

And if we use the three year sample size, we're talking -.172 or Miami's 33-14 to 25-22. (so about the same, not surprising given the similar overall records).

I dunno. I think Rose is pretty ****ing valuable. So you can say, "Their record is great without him" but their record is only great relative to the league. Not relative to how amazing they are with him. Relative to that, their record is kind of **** without Rose.

I mean, if the Heat were without LeBron and they went 19-16 the rest of the way, everyone would be saying he was UNANIMOUSLY the MVP because they went from best in the conference to about .500 without him.

Gotta look at context here guys. It's not as simple as raw record.

I wasn't aware that there was such a large disparity in winning percentage. Hawkeye, while you make some very good and logical posts I think you are kind of off on Rose. First, if these winning percentages are correct they speak for themselves. Secondly, what you don't take into account is that teams with injured superstars tend to over perform for a while until they come back to earth. The Bulls are slowing down lately and look at Boston now, over performing. Then comes your statement that Rose is a 3-5 pg. Westrbook plays on one of the best offensive teams in the league while Rose plays on one of the worst ones and yet his numbers are equal, at best, to Rose's and same is true for Tony. Yes Westbrook is a superior defender, but I do think Rose gets vastly underrated on that end too, plus guards don't have that much of an impact on team defense. If they did we would all be sucking Lowry's nuts. Deron is obviously not even in the argument anymore. Then we get to Rondo. The Celtics were fighting for a playoff spot with a team that is far more talented than the Bulls, heck they have a worse record than the Bulls even after their run since Rondo got injured. The Bulls record with the ****** roster and Vinny was comparable to that of the Celtics and that was when Rose was 3 years younger... This combined with the fact that Rose pretty much ***** on every pg when he faces them, you can say that their team D helps with that but if you actually watch the games not many people blow by Rose.

Dnovakovic099
03-11-2013, 02:12 PM
Also, the Bulls are 35-28 and falling this year and the East is pathetic. It is pretty clear the Bulls are a 4-6 seed in the ****** East and not a playoff team, and probably not even a .500 team in the West. While when they have Rose, they are arguably the best regular season team in the league. People, also don't really realize how much of our offense Derrick is responsible for. If I am correct, I don't have time to find the stats, but he was first in hockey assists in the NBA last season. While that sounds like of a dumb argument, if you watch the Bulls games a lot of the times Rose drives and he passes it out and the help D comes so they have to pass it one more. Now we are running our offense through Noah and Bellineli!!!! Are you ****ing kidding me Noah and Bellinelli! This team is burning down very fast. They are getting tired of playing 35+ minutes a game where they have to bust their ***** off just to stay in games. While when we had Rose, we didn't have to put up as much effort.

MaloDaw9
03-11-2013, 03:10 PM
not what I said. I'll walk you though it and even hold your hand like your 5 yrs old . rose got hurt. rose no play. rose no play long time. rose rusty. rose not 100%. rose not superman (rubio. shump) happy now ?

This is awesome DumDum..Exactly how i pictured you talking in real life.

DR_1
03-11-2013, 04:28 PM
This is exactly what ManRam was referring to. You’re accusing Hawk of trolling, even after admitting that he understands why he won it. He may have an opinion differing from your own, to which I somewhat disagree, but even you have to admit that there a lot of Bulls fans running rabid on this board, placing him on this holy pedestal hailing him as the greatest thing to ever walk on an NBA basketball floor. I take it you’re one of those fans based on this response to an innocent post with some fact behind it……

Stebo, let me start by saying that I really respect your opinions and knowledge of the game, one of the most objective guys on here :cheers:

But, I called it trolling because in what world is Rose not at the very least a top 10 player? Hawkeye cannot possibly name 10-15 players better than Derrick Rose. And 3-5 PG? Really? The only one up with Rose in CP3, and I think it's practically a coin flip between them. Just depends on what you are looking for with your team. I am not as biased as you believe here, I just think it's ridiculous that Hawkeye can get away with crap like this, just because he is a mod. And yes I am calling out Hawkeye.

Hardaway Here
03-11-2013, 08:29 PM
Stebo, let me start by saying that I really respect your opinions and knowledge of the game, one of the most objective guys on here :cheers:

But, I called it trolling because in what world is Rose not at the very least a top 10 player? Hawkeye cannot possibly name 10-15 players better than Derrick Rose. And 3-5 PG? Really? The only one up with Rose in CP3, and I think it's practically a coin flip between them. Just depends on what you are looking for with your team. I am not as biased as you believe here, I just think it's ridiculous that Hawkeye can get away with crap like this, just because he is a mod. And yes I am calling out Hawkeye.

I can agree with the 3-5 at pg cause it's all a matter of opinion really. I'd take CP3 and TP over rose that's just me though. You think Rose is better than CP3 and I can tell you that you are in the minority of people who think that. Rose as the number 2 is debatable. Because like I said when speaking of opinion most have CP3 at 1. People will argue the number 2 whether it being TP, Westbrook, Rose, or Rondo. So him being top 3-5 is not a slight on Rose at all look at all the talent at PG you make it seem like Rose is a clear front runner when that's not the case at all.

Cubby
03-11-2013, 08:48 PM
Stebo, let me start by saying that I really respect your opinions and knowledge of the game, one of the most objective guys on here :cheers:

But, I called it trolling because in what world is Rose not at the very least a top 10 player? Hawkeye cannot possibly name 10-15 players better than Derrick Rose. And 3-5 PG? Really? The only one up with Rose in CP3, and I think it's practically a coin flip between them. Just depends on what you are looking for with your team. I am not as biased as you believe here, I just think it's ridiculous that Hawkeye can get away with crap like this, just because he is a mod. And yes I am calling out Hawkeye.

I'm not really surprised to be honest. Hawkeye has always held some sort of weird attitude towards Rose. He always underrates the hell out of him.

NYCkid12
03-11-2013, 09:13 PM
Stebo, let me start by saying that I really respect your opinions and knowledge of the game, one of the most objective guys on here :cheers:

But, I called it trolling because in what world is Rose not at the very least a top 10 player? Hawkeye cannot possibly name 10-15 players better than Derrick Rose. And 3-5 PG? Really? The only one up with Rose in CP3, and I think it's practically a coin flip between them. Just depends on what you are looking for with your team. I am not as biased as you believe here, I just think it's ridiculous that Hawkeye can get away with crap like this, just because he is a mod. And yes I am calling out Hawkeye.

I agree with you that saying he's not a top 10 player when healthy is ridiculous

Only thing I'd disagree slightly with is that point guard wise you have to put tony Parker in that discussion ... He's getting a lot of MVP hype this year but this guy is great year in and year out and doesn't get the recognition .... This has been tony Parker's team for at least the last 3-4 years

Cubby
03-11-2013, 09:37 PM
I agree with you that saying he's not a top 10 player when healthy is ridiculous

Only thing I'd disagree slightly with is that point guard wise you have to put tony Parker in that discussion ... He's getting a lot of MVP hype this year but this guy is great year in and year out and doesn't get the recognition .... This has been tony Parker's team for at least the last 3-4 years

Currently (when everyone is healthy)

Paul
Rose
Parker
Irving

That's my 1-4. In my mind, 3+ is entirely interchangeable depending on what you desire on your team with Kyrie joining Paul and Derrick in the near future.

smiddy012
03-11-2013, 09:38 PM
I can agree with the 3-5 at pg cause it's all a matter of opinion really. I'd take CP3 and TP over rose that's just me though. You think Rose is better than CP3 and I can tell you that you are in the minority of people who think that. Rose as the number 2 is debatable. Because like I said when speaking of opinion most have CP3 at 1. People will argue the number 2 whether it being TP, Westbrook, Rose, or Rondo. So him being top 3-5 is not a slight on Rose at all look at all the talent at PG you make it seem like Rose is a clear front runner when that's not the case at all.

Ummmm....

Ummmmmmmm....

Calling DRose the clear-cut best PG in the league is overating him.

Calling DRose a 3-5 PG in the league makes me wonder if you've ever consistently watched the guy play. Any way you cut it, he is, at the at the very least, the second most dominate PG in the league.

amos1er
03-11-2013, 09:42 PM
Yes, he did not deserve to be in BSPN's top five players in the NBA last year...especially considering he missed 3/4 of the season. :pity:

Sactown
03-11-2013, 09:44 PM
Currently (when everyone is healthy)

Paul
Rose
Parker
Irving

That's my 1-4. In my mind, 3+ is entirely interchangeable depending on what you desire on your team with Kyrie joining Paul and Derrick in the near future.

I don't understand how people have Irving so high, it's an injustice to have him above Russell Westbrook... ROUNDING UP he averages 23/6/4 on with a per of 22, Those are good numbers, but he suffers constant injuries and is on a horrible team.. I understand he has a HORRID supporting cast, but a top 4 point guard should at minimum put you .333 win percentage...
There are a lot of good PG's who seem to do much more for their teams than Kyrie, and avoid injuries as well..

Blitzbolt
03-11-2013, 09:47 PM
Health is not the issue with Rose he one of the most mentally weak players in the NBA the guy is Soft and chokes under pressure like Lebron use to do.

But I'm sure time(age)will fix that.

chi-townlove1
03-11-2013, 09:58 PM
Health is not the issue with Rose he one of the most mentally weak players in the NBA the guy is Soft and chokes under pressure like Lebron use to do.

But I'm sure time(age)will fix that.

Lmao please just leave. Please stop trolling. Soft? Name another guy who goes head to head with biggest and baddest of the cheerleaders in the NBA now a days. Nobody, noone does it better than rose. MAYBE Westbrook. Calling him soft. :pity: and the amount of clutch game winning or game tying shots the man has made is remarkable. Typically the bulls didn't even need a huge last second shot, because Derrick put them in a winning situation 20 minutes into the game anyways.

Blitzbolt
03-11-2013, 10:06 PM
Lmao please just leave. Please stop trolling. Soft? Name another guy who goes head to head with biggest and baddest of the cheerleaders in the NBA now a days. Nobody, noone does it better than rose. MAYBE Westbrook. Calling him soft. :pity: and the amount of clutch game winning or game tying shots the man has made is remarkable. Typically the bulls didn't even need a huge last second shot, because Derrick put them in a winning situation 20 minutes into the game anyways.I'm a big Rose Fan I been fallowing since High School college(Memphis) and now in the NBA.He is mentally weak when he is under pressure look at him now bit ching about his Knee and weak bulls team it happens all the time.

effen5
03-11-2013, 10:21 PM
So your basing this off of one college season? If you really did follow him in HS he was phenomenal and if you watched his first three season in the league, agin he was phenomenal.

Blitzbolt
03-11-2013, 10:30 PM
So your basing this off of one college season? If you really did follow him in HS he was phenomenal and if you watched his first three season in the league, agin he was phenomenal.I agree 100% but he chokes every single year why?because he is mentally weak.

effen5
03-11-2013, 10:35 PM
I agree 100% but he chokes every single year why?because he is mentally weak.

Yet you don't provide proof of this. He was beyond clutch in his MVP season and I already can think of 5 game tying or game winners on top of my head. The floater over Pau Gasol or game winner over Brandon Jennings or absolutely destroying the spurs with two minutes to go....this kid is unbelievable in clutch time, and your talking to a guy whose watched every Derrick Rose game.

Cool007
03-11-2013, 11:04 PM
Yes, D-Rose last year before getting hurt, was simply phenomenal in the clutch time. He already had quite a few buzzer beaters, big time game winning shot (started the season with a game winning shot vs Lakers).

The only team Rose needs to get over the hump is Miami Heat, other than that he has been money since his rookie year.

chi-townlove1
03-11-2013, 11:13 PM
Once again, thank you for the help gentlemen ^

DumDum
03-11-2013, 11:59 PM
same time since you made a worthwhile comment...

Another PSD sucker

DumDum
03-12-2013, 12:01 AM
You guys fall for trolls so easily.

Gotta go fast

DumDum
03-12-2013, 12:03 AM
This is awesome DumDum..Exactly how i pictured you talking in real life.

Another PSD Knob gobbler

DumDum
03-12-2013, 12:07 AM
Only wrote my opinion only Homer Bulls fans Are mad about it.

ILLUSIONIST^248
03-12-2013, 12:10 AM
Rose comes back add leads the Bulls to a seven game upset of the Heat.

DumDum
03-12-2013, 04:47 AM
Rose comes back add leads the Bulls to a seven game upset of the Heat.

Yeah then Kobe's sneakers sell out like Jordan's lol

1-800-STFU
03-12-2013, 09:16 AM
Gotta go fast

Cum on step it up

Good job by the way. This turned into a 15 page thread :laugh2:

BKLYNpigeon
03-12-2013, 09:27 AM
Derick Rose? he needs to get back on the court.

He's going to fall out of the top 10 best PG's on PSD.. OH NO!

Shmontaine
03-12-2013, 09:49 AM
Another PSD sucker

yep...

effen5
03-12-2013, 01:28 PM
Only wrote my opinion only Homer Bulls fans Are mad about it.

Well thats adorable but your opinion has no substance or facts or even back ups which is why your opinion is worth nothing.

Just read what Doogs posted a few pages ago and just close this thread.

DumDum
03-25-2013, 02:50 AM
Nah ,,, I want see how fall I can take this

felixng2012
03-25-2013, 10:10 PM
Derrick Rose is a soft little ***** and one of the weakest MVPs in history. Overrated.

Slug3
03-25-2013, 10:17 PM
There are like 3 weeks left and he hasn't come back. He should just take the year off and be ready from the hate next year. It's going to take him 2-3 weeks to get to good game condition.

DumDum
04-16-2013, 04:00 AM
Rose comes back add leads the Bulls to a seven game upset of the Heat.

meth not even once

FYL_McVeezy
04-16-2013, 09:41 AM
Derrick Rose is a great player...a VERY great player...

But I think some people do overrate him....and I don't think he will ever lead the Bulls to a title...

minervamob
04-16-2013, 09:53 AM
shake ? really thats the world you going use ? look at ricky look at shump they went down the same injury. they not shaking anything just yet

you're an idiot who probably has only seen nationally televised Bulls games. Just because you've seen the Bulls win some games against good teams, you think they are good enough to contend for a title if they are all dedicated?? This team could not get out the 1st round without Rose last year. I watched the Bulls struggle all year. the offense is in the bottom 5 of almost every category besides rebounds and team assists. They lose to the worst teams in the NBA as much as they have beaten some of the best. Then you compare DRose to Rubio and Shumpert??? Are you kidding me??? Rose was the MVP for a reason, he is incredibly talented at what he does. You put him on this Bulls team and its a guarantee they go at least back to the Eastern Conference Finals. Stop being such a hater and watch more games before you make outlandish, ignorant posts.

BullySixChicago
04-16-2013, 10:21 AM
The nitwits are still out, the idea that some are still harping on his MVP season, and the same nitwits are again harping on his ability. I actually believe that some of these nitwits should watch the games rather than offer opinions about their NBA and player knowledge.

SportsFanatic10
04-16-2013, 10:27 AM
The nitwits are still out, the idea that some are still harping on his MVP season, and the same nitwits are again harping on his ability. I actually believe that some of these nitwits should watch the games rather than offer opinions about their NBA and player knowledge.

did you just discover the word "nitwits" and challenge yourself to try using it as many times as you could in a single post?

JiffyMix88
04-16-2013, 10:42 AM
did you just discover the word "nitwits" and challenge yourself to try using it as many times as you could in a single post?

Well he did call them nitwits in the first part of the sentence so to go back and call them something different could be confusing. It's like me calling your mom a different name then what I normally do and it's "bicth" by the way. I say hey "*****" go get me a soda I don't say hey Barbara get me a soda cause that would be confusing to her for me to call her out her only name shes ever known.

SportsFanatic10
04-16-2013, 10:44 AM
Well he did call them nitwits in the first part of the sentence so to go back and call them something different could be confusing. It's like me calling your mom a different name then what I normally do and it's "bicth" by the way. I say hey "*****" go get me a soda I don't say hey Barbara get me a soda cause that would be confusing to her for me to call her out her only name shes ever known.

lol way to stand up for your butt buddy there bicth

pd1dish
04-16-2013, 10:50 AM
I think people romanticize how good Derrick Rose actually is. He definitely is a great player, being the only person other than Lebron to win MVP in the last 4 years, but he’s not as good as people are making him out to be, in my possibly delusional opinion. He’s got a great team behind him who are fully capable of standing on their own. The return of Derrick Rose isn’t going to shake the NBA and turn it on its head. It’s a momentous occasion considering the severity of his injury, but he’s just another really good player. People are making him out to be the best players ever because he got MVP that year. Granted, that is no small feat, but he is just not THAT good. He’s great, have I mind you, but he is NOT the savior of the bulls franchise. They’ve already got a solid team. D-Rose is simply a fundamental piece in the puzzle. The bulls can win the championship if that whole team just plays their hearts out, NOT because D-Rose is on the floor. Again, I think D-Rose is a great player: fast, distributes, clutch shooting, etc. It just bothers me that people exaggerate and romanticize about how good he really is

if the Bulls would have finished a top 3 seed in the east, then i would maybe agree with you to a certain extent. however, this team has dropped from being the team who had the best record in the NBA for back-to-back years. Now, without Rose, this team has fallen to the 6th seed in the east. i dont think its even a question as to how valuable Rose is to this team.

this team defines inconsistency when it comes to the Rose-less offensive side of the ball. with Rose in the lineup, that goes away. the Bulls go from 6th seed to favorites to make it to the ECF to challenge the Heat. we go from mediocrity to elite just like that.

pd1dish
04-16-2013, 10:53 AM
Derrick Rose is a great player...a VERY great player...

But I think some people do overrate him....and I don't think he will ever lead the Bulls to a title...

if you think this about Rose, then i cant imagine where you see Melo taking you....

at least Rose has a winning attitude and a sense of responsibility. when things go wrong, who do you think takes the blame for the Bulls? cant say the same thing about Melo's lazy ***.

JiffyMix88
04-16-2013, 10:54 AM
lol way to stand up for your butt buddy there bicth

idk him

likemystylez
04-16-2013, 10:57 AM
I know they didnt want to rush him back in jan or feb because he wasnt ready. They said as long as he is good for the playoffs, then thats what matters. Now they are talking about resting him during the playoffs too? Wait a minute- what exactly are you saving him for if the playoffs arent a good enough reason to get him out there.

I mean it would be one thing if the doctors havent cleared him, but they cleared him like 3 months ago. Theres no reason he shouldnt be out there during the playoffs. I think it would have been smart to get him in the games in late march just to get conditioned to play in the playoffs, but I dont see what the point is of resting him for next pre season if you are going to sit him during the playoffs. It kinda shows that rose himself doesnt want to win as bad as you want your star player to want it. THIS IS ROSE'S CHOICE, most star players are the ones pushing to come back a little bit early. I mean rose isnt 38 yrs old, he should want to take advantage of this point in his career.

72 Wins
04-16-2013, 11:16 AM
did you just discover the word "nitwits" and challenge yourself to try using it as many times as you could in a single post?

WHOH! You burned him BRO.

FYL_McVeezy
04-16-2013, 11:34 AM
if you think this about Rose, then i cant imagine where you see Melo taking you....

at least Rose has a winning attitude and a sense of responsibility. when things go wrong, who do you think takes the blame for the Bulls? cant say the same thing about Melo's lazy ***.

Only in the NBA forum does a post about D.Rose turn into a Melo bashing post..... all because some Bulls fan got all butthurt at the fact that I said D.Rose won't win a title in CHI :laugh:

bbcmillionaire
04-16-2013, 12:00 PM
Only in the NBA forum does a post about D.Rose turn into a Melo bashing post..... all because some Bulls fan got all butthurt at the fact that I said D.Rose won't win a title in CHI :laugh:
Lol not as funny as the Knicks not winning a title anytime soon

SportsFanatic10
04-16-2013, 12:05 PM
WHOH! You burned him BRO.

yeah i agree...not much of a burn because that's not what i was going for. i just got a kick out of how many times he said nitwit lol. i think the few of you who were rubbed the wrong way by my post took it to be an insult since i'm a heat fan and he's a bulls fan when it really wasn't.

SportsFanatic10
04-16-2013, 12:09 PM
idk him

you know him better than you know my mom who you claimed to know...

TheIlladelph16
04-16-2013, 12:15 PM
I've kinda lost what this thread was even about to begin with, but I think Rose is pretty properly ranked and not overrated. A 100% healthy Rose is the second best PG and arguably top 3-5 player in terms of impact on their team. Now, I still think Dwight and Bron both got slightly robbed (pick pocketed? lol) on the MVP a couple years ago, but I think the only reason he is so low on some rankings is health.

72 Wins
04-16-2013, 12:18 PM
yeah i agree...not much of a burn because that's not what i was going for. i just got a kick out of how many times he said nitwit lol. i think the few of you who were rubbed the wrong way by my post took it to be an insult since i'm a heat fan and he's a bulls fan when it really wasn't.

You are a nitwit, because you don't recognize sarcasm.

SportsFanatic10
04-16-2013, 12:22 PM
You are a nitwit, because you don't recognize sarcasm.

no you are for not recognizing that i recognized the sarcasm.

72 Wins
04-16-2013, 12:23 PM
no you are for not recognizing that i recognized the sarcasm.

No, you are.

SportsFanatic10
04-16-2013, 12:25 PM
No, you are.

i know you are but what am i?

He115ing
04-16-2013, 12:28 PM
somebody close this thread.