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Money_23
02-05-2013, 12:04 AM
every player of all time except maybe a couple? Keep in mind I'm not talking about championships, MVPs, FMVPS, etc. Just solely on what a player can bring on to the court.

Do you think Lebron is already near the top in this regard?

Just saw tonight's game, so this could be an overreaction thread. :laugh2:

stawka
02-05-2013, 12:08 AM
Dafuqbro?!

ManRam
02-05-2013, 12:15 AM
Statistically his prime has been better than "every player of all time except maybe a couple" for sure. It's almost unlike anything we've ever seen...almost.

justinnum1
02-05-2013, 12:24 AM
Just enjoy it

K.I.N.G.
02-05-2013, 12:29 AM
Well you can say Shaq or someone but then again Shaq didn't have the fundamentals like shooting or dribbling so yeah Lebron is the greatest of all time as a player besides MJ.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-05-2013, 12:39 AM
Individually, he's a top 5 player.

Ladies Man
02-05-2013, 12:41 AM
Well you can say Shaq or someone but then again Shaq didn't have the fundamentals like shooting or dribbling so yeah Lebron is the greatest of all time as a player besides MJ.

Well one can argue Steve Nash is a better dribbler and shooter than LeBron. So thats why it does come down to players legacies, which is by championships. Dont get me wrong, James is better than Nash. But its all about your legacy in the NBA, which is why people say Jordan is the GOAT and not soneone like Wilt.

b@llhog24
02-05-2013, 12:43 AM
Couples of guys could give him a run.

i.got.the.nutz
02-05-2013, 12:43 AM
Prime Lebron is a good comparison with Prime Shaq. It would be tough to choose between them.

zB_#85
02-05-2013, 12:44 AM
Individually more all around talented than really anyone. If he had MJ of Kobes mentality I'd feel sorry for everyone trying to stop him.

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-05-2013, 01:08 AM
:drool:

Jahari Kavi
02-05-2013, 01:09 AM
in my honest opinion he is top 10 right now....he will definitely be top 5 before it's all said and done...and if he gets 5 rings I'll call him the best ever considering he wasted half of his career with an awful team....

Jahari Kavi
02-05-2013, 01:11 AM
As far as "unique" ability Lebron, Hakeem, Magic and Shaq are probably the most unique great players I've seen in my life......MJ was great but his style can be easily emulated....

Becks2307
02-05-2013, 01:11 AM
Seriously individually Lebron is top 3 all time.

sneakeraddict24
02-05-2013, 01:55 AM
better than kobe? i admit lebron is better right now but ill take Kobe over LB in there primes anyday

LeperMessiah
02-05-2013, 02:08 AM
20 years from now people will talk about Jordan and James.

LaLa_Land
02-05-2013, 02:24 AM
When you talk about individual talent, the bunched up top 10 are so hard to make clear distinctions between.

Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, MJ, Magic, etc. were all unbelievable in their own ways. To name one clearly superior to the rest is quite impossible.

Personally, I'd say LeBron and Shaq were the only players in my eyes that were physical beasts (dominating their eras with pure strength and athleticism as their primary traits). I'm not saying they were better than Jordan or any of the greats - but that they are/were the epitome of the word "unstoppable".

Shaq would bull into you and dunk on you every single goddamn time, and you simply COULD NOT stop it. Nobody could.

LeBron will jump over you, run through you, cross you over, you name it. No one in the league can stop him.

There were people to match up with Jordan, Kobe, etc. that would clearly give them a hard time, and visibly alter their game. Shaq and recent LeBron on the other hand find ways to dominate games every single night. You can't just take them out of the game. There wasn't an individual in either era that could stop these men in a one on one scenario.

Shaq was just so great...

Teeboy1487
02-05-2013, 02:39 AM
Lebron is the best all around player ever imo. That's in terms of athletic ability, basketball IQ, scoring, rebounding, passing, defense, even steals and blocks. Just an extremely gifted human being.

jerellh528
02-05-2013, 02:46 AM
Individually more all around talented than really anyone. If he had MJ of Kobes mentality I'd feel sorry for everyone trying to stop him.

Not talent or skill wise because those go to jordan and kobe..but his physical attributes mixed in with above average talent makes him a top 5 individual player in his prime.

Kid Fabulous
02-05-2013, 02:46 AM
Individually more all around talented than really anyone. If he had MJ of Kobes mentality I'd feel sorry for everyone trying to stop him.

So he's getting knocked because he's a better team player?

Kid Fabulous
02-05-2013, 02:47 AM
As far as "unique" ability Lebron, Hakeem, Magic and Shaq are probably the most unique great players I've seen in my life......MJ was great but his style can be easily emulated....

Kobe in a nutshell

IKnowHoops
02-05-2013, 02:56 AM
Id say as an Individual he is top 3 for sure MJ, Lebron, Shaq in no order. I'd say Lebron is the most physically gifted athlete that has ever lived.

GrumpyOldMan
02-05-2013, 06:11 AM
IMO what puts guys like Magic and Lebron near the same level as Jordan and Kobe is their versatility. Both Magic and Lebron could play all 5 positions and do it very well. If Lebron can maintain his level of play for another decade he could be 1/2 with Jordan when all is said and done.

JEDean89
02-05-2013, 06:27 AM
rings will end up being the determining factor when it is all said and done. jordan will go down the better scorer and lebron the better assister and passer. i think they are both about even defensively and maybe lebron has the edge because of his size. which is better? you can't really make an argument for either so it will have to come down to accolades. jordan has 6 rings and 6 finals mvp's, lebron has 1 and 1 but has about 6-7 years of his prime to win around 6. the problem is that Lebron has not yet built a team that truly plays to his strengths. give him a true center like tyson chandler and a real pg like tony parker and you have a much better big 3 for him than the superstars that were bosh and wade. the jordan bulls had luc longley, kukoc, pippen, rodman, kerr, and more that all played to jordan's strengths. If I'm the heat I'm trading bosh in 2014 to a team for a pg or a center and some picks/young talent. i would then ask wade to opt out and resign him to a cheaper deal for another 3 years. something like 3 years 30 mil. then i'm signing either a PG or C depending on what the heat didn't get for bosh. So say they have lebron for about 22 mil a year, wade for 10, a center for 13, and a pg for 10 they could have a far better core to play to lebron's strengths then they currently have for a little bit less money. it is also cheaper to fill in backup pg's, 6th men, PF's, shooters and defensive specialists (ask the knicks who get JR smith, Iman Shumpert, Jason Kidd and Steve Novak for a combined 11 mil a year) than it is to get quality starting pg's and centers.

Mr.ATLHawks
02-05-2013, 06:39 AM
Well you can say Shaq or someone but then again Shaq didn't have the fundamentals like shooting or dribbling so yeah Lebron is the greatest of all time as a player besides MJ.

:facepalm: Shaq was a very good dribbler and passer...I guess you never seen Shaq lead the break before?

jaydubb
02-05-2013, 06:51 AM
Why does every thread turn into Kobe vs. lebron?? I should make a thread about diarrhea, no doubt in the end somehow ppl will find a way to say lebron is better then kobe at going diarrhea and vice versa.. :/

jaydubb
02-05-2013, 06:52 AM
:facepalm: Shaq was a very good dribbler and passer...I guess you never seen Shaq lead the break before?

Shaq perfected showtime

SanAntonioSpurs23
02-05-2013, 09:39 AM
Win More Rings first

b@llhog24
02-05-2013, 10:03 AM
Win More Rings first

What does a "team" accomplishment, have to do with the INDIVIDUAL?

LakersSaintsLSU
02-05-2013, 10:16 AM
20 years from now people will talk about Jordan and James.

Yea...ONLY kobe haters...sure wish you guys would come out the closet and admit you hate kobe...cause ONLY a laker/kobe hater would say something dumb like that:facepalm:

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-05-2013, 10:30 AM
Yea...ONLY kobe haters...sure wish you guys would come out the closet and admit you hate kobe...cause ONLY a laker/kobe hater would say something dumb like that:facepalm:

....what part of his comment made you come up with the conclusion that he is a kobe hater?

he basically said he believes lebron will end up top 2 when he retires lol.. i dont understand how you can say he is a kobe hater, when he doesnt even mention kobe in his comment? :shrug:

Dankster
02-05-2013, 10:34 AM
I wonder how many people actually saw Michael play in his prime rather than just stare at a bunch of statistics on various websites.

Anyone who saw him play in his PRIME, like actually watched games of the guy, would know offensively he's in another stratosphere compared to LBJ--he has a much more refined post up game, an automatic midrange game with a fadeaway that was impossible to block. He was a tremendous passer for a team that didn't have a veritable PG (BJ Armstrong and JOhn Paxson were small off guards.) The guy was also an excellent rebounder for a SG, especially in an era that had many more elite rebounders than comparing with today (Moses/Karl/Rodman/Hakeem/Charles/Pat.)

And as hard as it may be to believe, he's more athletic than Lebron. lBJ can't do half the things MJ could do with the ball, the adjustments that man could make in midair were just jawdropping to watch. He was just a more skilled player than LBJ. LBJ is an all time great, but if he didn't have that freakish combination of size and speed, I don't know how great he'd be. But obviously, that's what makes him Lebron.

DITKA4GOV
02-05-2013, 11:04 AM
I wonder how many people actually saw Michael play in his prime rather than just stare at a bunch of statistics on various websites.

Anyone who saw him play in his PRIME, like actually watched games of the guy, would know offensively he's in another stratosphere compared to LBJ--he has a much more refined post up game, an automatic midrange game with a fadeaway that was impossible to block. He was a tremendous passer for a team that didn't have a veritable PG (BJ Armstrong and JOhn Paxson were small off guards.) The guy was also an excellent rebounder for a SG, especially in an era that had many more elite rebounders than comparing with today (Moses/Karl/Rodman/Hakeem/Charles/Pat.)

And as hard as it may be to believe, he's more athletic than Lebron. lBJ can't do half the things MJ could do with the ball, the adjustments that man could make in midair were just jawdropping to watch. He was just a more skilled player than LBJ. LBJ is an all time great, but if he didn't have that freakish combination of size and speed, I don't know how great he'd be. But obviously, that's what makes him Lebron.

^This.

Even with 6 total rings for LBJ, I don't think he overtakes MJ. 10x scoring champ who averaged 41 ppg in the 6 games in the 93 NBA Finals. 9x Defense 1st team, even with a DPOY mixed in there. I don't think we've seen a player that could match MJ's offensive prowess along with his defensive tenacity. He made the NBA global. What LBJ did last night was an insanely efficient game, and he will be top 3 at least when it's all said and done. What MJ did on a night to night basis was insane and nearly unmatched, espicailly when you look at what he did in playoffs/finals alone.

If LBJ somehow goes back to Cleveland and brings that championship deprived city a championship, that would be a great notch in his "legacy belt.'

Enjoy it for what it is now. Just like Jordan, before you know it you will have to explain to the people who didn't get to see LBJ play how great he really was.

LeperMessiah
02-05-2013, 11:13 AM
Yea...ONLY kobe haters...sure wish you guys would come out the closet and admit you hate kobe...cause ONLY a laker/kobe hater would say something dumb like that:facepalm:

Don't be so butt hurt love, I just believe James will reach higher heights to merit that. ONLY kobe lovers can't see past that.

ManRam
02-05-2013, 11:27 AM
Just enjoy it

I'm on this bandwagon.

Just enjoy it!

Big Zo
02-05-2013, 11:29 AM
He's not even better than Mike James.

lakerboy
02-05-2013, 11:43 AM
Enjoy it now. LBJ does not have the fundamental skills to play like this past year 30

justinnum1
02-05-2013, 11:43 AM
kobe homers getting mad lol

og knick
02-05-2013, 12:05 PM
Yes... best ever on offense and defense... and we haven't seen the best of him( the bastard added a deadly three point shot this year)
His skills , athleticism, size, speed , stamina,and basketball iq, are years ahead of his maturity ,charisma, street smarts, and desire to win.

thecro88
02-05-2013, 12:08 PM
1991-92 Pippen would have finished the 2011-2012 season with these impressive rankings

Points - # 2
Rebounds - # 11
Assists - # 3
Steals - # 1
Blocks - # 15

When LBJ does this, get back to me!

Kobe2324
02-05-2013, 12:29 PM
It's a weird way to look at things since players are usually judged on their entire Resume, but sure you can rank him top 5 all time I think as far as individual talent since he is a great all around player, if not top 5 than top 10 for sure, but I have a hard time judging players simply on talent and not taking everything else into consideraton. in my opinion if he never wins another title I would have a hard time ranking him in the top 5 all time...but still young and has lot of time to build up that resume.

NoahH
02-05-2013, 12:31 PM
Statistically his prime has been better than "every player of all time except maybe a couple" for sure. It's almost unlike anything we've ever seen...almost.

+1

IKnowHoops
02-05-2013, 12:40 PM
I wonder how many people actually saw Michael play in his prime rather than just stare at a bunch of statistics on various websites.

Anyone who saw him play in his PRIME, like actually watched games of the guy, would know offensively he's in another stratosphere compared to LBJ--he has a much more refined post up game, an automatic midrange game with a fadeaway that was impossible to block. He was a tremendous passer for a team that didn't have a veritable PG (BJ Armstrong and JOhn Paxson were small off guards.) The guy was also an excellent rebounder for a SG, especially in an era that had many more elite rebounders than comparing with today (Moses/Karl/Rodman/Hakeem/Charles/Pat.)

And as hard as it may be to believe, he's more athletic than Lebron. lBJ can't do half the things MJ could do with the ball, the adjustments that man could make in midair were just jawdropping to watch. He was just a more skilled player than LBJ. LBJ is an all time great, but if he didn't have that freakish combination of size and speed, I don't know how great he'd be. But obviously, that's what makes him Lebron.

So which is it? I watched Mike's whole career and he was not more athletic than Lebron. He had more body control in the air yes, but Lebron was definately faster. And the fact that Lebron has 65 pounds on Jordan with for arguments sake basically the same amount of hops makes him the better athlete. Hes bigger, faster, and stronger than Mike. And yes Mike was an unbeleivable athlete and stood alone during his time as an athlete.

IKnowHoops
02-05-2013, 12:44 PM
1991-92 Pippen would have finished the 2011-2012 season with these impressive rankings

Points - # 2
Rebounds - # 11
Assists - # 3
Steals - # 1
Blocks - # 15

When LBJ does this, get back to me!

How did you come up with this? When Jordan left Pippen was like 28 years old and couldnt put up the numbers your making up. Thats just ridic

LeperMessiah
02-05-2013, 01:10 PM
1991-92 Pippen would have finished the 2011-2012 season with these impressive rankings

Points - # 2
Rebounds - # 11
Assists - # 3
Steals - # 1
Blocks - # 15

When LBJ does this, get back to me!

It is a much faster league today than it was in the 90s, the real question is how Lebron would have fared in the 90s.

beliges
02-05-2013, 01:16 PM
Lebron puts up spectacular individual numbers but none of that would mean much of anything unless he translates that into wins, and most specifically championships. He no longer has an excuse not to win. He plays for arguably the most talented team in a dramatically inferior conference. For him to be considered in the mj, magic and Kobe level he needs to get another 3 titles. Its possible but he's got a ways to go.

LeperMessiah
02-05-2013, 01:28 PM
Lebron puts up spectacular individual numbers but none of that would mean much of anything unless he translates that into wins, and most specifically championships. He no longer has an excuse not to win. He plays for arguably the most talented team in a dramatically inferior conference. For him to be considered in the mj, magic and Kobe level he needs to get another 3 titles. Its possible but he's got a ways to go.
... Cleveland only won because Lebron played.

boateng
02-05-2013, 02:36 PM
he is not better than jordan

justinnum1
02-05-2013, 02:40 PM
he is not better than jordan

no one is.

boateng
02-05-2013, 02:42 PM
no one is.

some heat and lebron fans think he is.

Money_23
02-05-2013, 03:13 PM
some heat and lebron fans think he is.

those are the dumb ones.

Big Zo
02-05-2013, 03:19 PM
he is not better than jordan

Duh! No one will ever be better than Jordan Farmar.

jayjay33
02-05-2013, 03:38 PM
what does a "team" accomplishment, have to do with the individual?

dp

jayjay33
02-05-2013, 03:42 PM
What does a "team" accomplishment, have to do with the INDIVIDUAL?


Because winning is the MOST important thing of all. You think Jordan would be considered the GOAT if he had zero rings? Besides individual accomplishments have just as much to do with your team.

TheNumber37
02-05-2013, 03:47 PM
Are his starts really more impressive than Wilt's or OScar Robertson?

justinnum1
02-05-2013, 04:00 PM
some heat and lebron fans think he is.

Show me a heat fan who thinks lebron is better than jordan.

og knick
02-05-2013, 05:53 PM
It is a much faster league today than it was in the 90s, the real question is how Lebron would have fared in the 90s.

No doubt! you said this so perfectly. lebron wouldn't have survived the 90's well.
With Lebron's personallity I think he would have hidden from the contact and the intensity of the players back then.

They would have gotten into his head and he would have shrunk.

OceanSpray
02-05-2013, 05:58 PM
better than kobe? i admit lebron is better right now but ill take Kobe over LB in there primes anyday

Because you are stupid. Kobe in his prime never achieved the stats LeBron achieved. Asides from scoring, Kobe never beat LeBron at anything. I don't call riding Shaq and having Horry knock down clutch threes Kobe's rings because Shaq won them. Kobe scored 35 PPG, nice, with 45%. LeBron scores 27 PPG this year shooting 56%. Hmmm, something tells me that if LeBron took more shots and ballhogged, he would score much more. The fact is Kobe in his prime would ballhog and led his team straight out of the first round playoffs.

OceanSpray
02-05-2013, 05:59 PM
No doubt! you said this so perfectly. lebron wouldn't have survived the 90's well.
With Lebron's personallity I think he would have hidden from the contact and the intensity of the players back then.

They would have gotten into his head and he would have shrunk.

This is based off the fact that you're a hater who wants to find every way possible to devalue LeBron. He's scared, he's going to shrink. You don't make it to the top of NBA and "shrink." He's the best there is right now, get over it and stop making silly assumptions.

Money_23
02-05-2013, 06:19 PM
Because you are stupid. Kobe in his prime never achieved the stats LeBron achieved. Asides from scoring, Kobe never beat LeBron at anything. I don't call riding Shaq and having Horry knock down clutch threes Kobe's rings because Shaq won them. Kobe scored 35 PPG, nice, with 45%. LeBron scores 27 PPG this year shooting 56%. Hmmm, something tells me that if LeBron took more shots and ballhogged, he would score much more. The fact is Kobe in his prime would ballhog and led his team straight out of the first round playoffs.

the difference is, Kobe had no one to rely on that year on offense, he WAS the Lakers' offense.

OceanSpray
02-05-2013, 06:22 PM
the difference is, Kobe had no one to rely on that year on offense, he WAS the Lakers' offense.

You know why he had no one to rely on? Because he never gave them a chance. You think people knew who Mo Williams was? You think people cared about the players in Cleveland before LeBron came in? No, because LeBron gave them an opportunity to score every time he was out on the court. Kobe doesn't have the mentality to make his teammates better. He even insulted them all and said he shouldn't associate with anyone who doesn't have the accolades that he has. When LeBron steps out on the court, his intent is to win games no matter what it takes; even if he has to sacrifice his own achievements.

Money_23
02-05-2013, 06:26 PM
You know why he had no one to rely on? Because he never gave them a chance. You think people knew who Mo Williams was? You think people cared about the players in Cleveland before LeBron came in? No, because LeBron gave them an opportunity to score every time he was out on the court. Kobe doesn't have the mentality to make his teammates better. He even insulted them all and said he shouldn't associate with anyone who doesn't have the accolades that he has. When LeBron steps out on the court, his intent is to win games no matter what it takes; even if he has to sacrifice his own achievements.

you didn't watch basketball in 2006 did you? :laugh2:
his teammates had the ability to score in their own baskets as well as missing wide open dunks.

his only decent teammate was Lamar and he wasn't consistent. Anyway I don't want this thread to be a Kobe vs Lebron argument.....

OceanSpray
02-05-2013, 06:41 PM
you didn't watch basketball in 2006 did you? :laugh2:
his teammates had the ability to score in their own baskets as well as missing wide open dunks.

his only decent teammate was Lamar and he wasn't consistent. Anyway I don't want this thread to be a Kobe vs Lebron argument.....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2007.html

Actually they were more efficient than Kobe. But thanks, you certainly provided me more proof that all LAL fans are ********.

Money_23
02-05-2013, 06:48 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2007.html

Actually they were more efficient than Kobe. But thanks, you certainly provided me more proof that all LAL fans are ********.

I'm not a laker fan, it's funny everytime some anti-kobe guy's agenda gets attacked they automatically think they are some lakers or kobe homer.

you already proved yourself to be an idiot when you bring up the 2006-2007 season when originally you talked about his 35ppg season (2005-2006).
but let me just pour some more ether on you: you just compared the efficiency of a 8ppg player to that of a 32 ppg player. Great argument. :laugh2:

proves once again you started watching the NBA just the last 2 years. Anyone can bring up box scores, but nothing can cheat the eyes.

OceanSpray
02-05-2013, 06:54 PM
I'm not a laker fan, it's funny everytime some anti-kobe guy's agenda gets attacked they automatically think they are some lakers or kobe homer.

you already proved yourself to be an idiot when you bring up the 2006-2007 season when originally you talked about his 35ppg season (2005-2006).
but let me just pour some more ether on you: you just compared the efficiency of a 8ppg player to that of a 32 ppg player. Great argument. :laugh2:

proves once again you started watching the NBA just the last 2 years. Anyone can bring up box scores, but nothing can cheat the eyes.

Does it matter which season? He still ballhogged in both.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2006.html

Even better, thanks for providing more proof to my statement.

I can't compare a 8 PPG player to that of a 32 PPG? You asked for efficiency, that's what efficiency means. How you produce in the time and opportunity you are given. If given more opportunity, they would score more. You expect his roster to score more when you just admitted that Kobe had no one to help him score, thus leading to him ballhogging more. Yup, you just contradicted yourself like a ******.

Once again, thanks a bunch for being a typical LAL ******.

tp13baby
02-05-2013, 07:03 PM
The ability to be a game changer on both ends of the court, passing, rebounding, blocks, steals, efficiency on offense. He is the best two way player of all time.

LAKERS4LIFE!!
02-05-2013, 07:08 PM
Stop using the R word, you're making yourself sound so stupid and idiotic.

Eg714
02-05-2013, 07:09 PM
The ability to be a game changer on both ends of the court, passing, rebounding, blocks, steals, efficiency on offense. He is the best two way player of all time.

Sorry Jordan was a better two way player. I would even say Kobe's a better two way player in his prime. Lebron fills up the stat sheet really nice because of his physical gifts athleticism and position.

Hawkeye15
02-05-2013, 07:10 PM
LeBron is the best player I have seen since Jordan, and I wasn't able to catch Jabbar until he was old, or Wilt at all. Seen them on tape, but its tough gauging them against their peers, the game was different. LeBron is the 2nd best player, individually, I have seen.

beliges
02-05-2013, 08:21 PM
LeBron is the best player I have seen since Jordan, and I wasn't able to catch Jabbar until he was old, or Wilt at all. Seen them on tape, but its tough gauging them against their peers, the game was different. LeBron is the 2nd best player, individually, I have seen.

Not sure how one can make a statement like that and make it seem unbiased. Kobe in his prime was a better player than Lebron has been thus far in his career. Better scorer, better offensive player and a better defender. Better finisher, better footwork, better post-up game, etc... But I do understand what you are saying and Lebron has the ability to get to that level with a few more championships. He is clearly the most athletically gifted basketball player to ever play the game. He has some things to polish up still in his game and he hasnt mastered every aspect of the game like MJ and Kobe had done in their primes, but he is still improving and he really doesnt need to polish up anything else as his athleticism is much more superior as compared to MJ and Kobe.

As I stated, only thing left for LBJ to conquer is a dynasty. If he wins another 3 titles, id put him up there with the other great perimeter players such as MJ, Magic and Kobe.

beliges
02-05-2013, 08:26 PM
... Cleveland only won because Lebron played.

Well Cleavland never won anything. BUT right now he is on a team with more than enough talent to be part of a dynasty. Thats the only thing seperating LBJ from the other all time greats. One thing that has always alluded him was actually winning. Now that he has no excuses as he is on one of the most talented teams in the league, he is set up for greatness. He simply needs to win. He got it done last year but doing it once is not enough. After 3 more titles, Lebron officially enters the legendary status.

AIRMAR72
02-05-2013, 08:29 PM
As far as "unique" ability Lebron, Hakeem, Magic and Shaq are probably the most unique great players I've seen in my life......MJ was great but his style can be easily emulated....

your crazy for typing that rubbish it took kobe 7yrs to to hit the turn around fadaway like MJ last person I saw in league with hangtime was harlod minor and he was garbage furthermore you need mental power, BIGHANDS and BODY control like MJ to finish at rim at WILL

AIRMAR72
02-05-2013, 08:31 PM
agreed plus bron is built to last the guy is a NFL tightend

AIRMAR72
02-05-2013, 08:36 PM
BRON has been BETTER than kobe since day1 with a ring or no ring put PRIME kobe on BRON early cavs team and see what happens to the CAVS

Dankster
02-05-2013, 10:11 PM
So which is it? I watched Mike's whole career and he was not more athletic than Lebron. He had more body control in the air yes, but Lebron was definately faster. And the fact that Lebron has 65 pounds on Jordan with for arguments sake basically the same amount of hops makes him the better athlete. Hes bigger, faster, and stronger than Mike. And yes Mike was an unbeleivable athlete and stood alone during his time as an athlete.

Umm, he's bigger and stronger than MIchael Jordan, that's about it. And if you say he's more athletic than MIchael Jordan, than I really quesrtion if you honestly watched the guy play basketball from 1988-1993. Anytime in that period if you watched that man play ball like I did, there wouldn't be an argument to be made about it. This isn't a subjective statement whatsoever, the guy is the greatest athlete to ever play in the NBA.

My point was, if MJ could retain his skillset and his otherworldy athleticism in the size and frame of LBJ's body, that would make a pretty unstoppable basketball player. But Lebron is not FASTER or more Athletic than Michael. Maybe their quickness and speed sets are quite similar, but athleticism?? Not a chance in hell.

I'm a big fan of both of these players, but I'm very pragmatic in my outlook when comparing these guys. A better comparison to make with MJ is Kobe, whose offensive repertoire is the closest thing I've ever seen since MJ dominated the late 80's and the entire 90's.

Lebron is closer to the mold of Magic than he is Michael. There's no one like Mike.

koberulesall
02-05-2013, 10:20 PM
Kobe
Shaq
Jordan
Pippen
Magic
Kareem
Bird
The Dream
Duncan
not in any specific order but are all better at affecting a basketball game than lebron

Raps18-19 Champ
02-05-2013, 10:22 PM
Not talent or skill wise because those go to jordan and kobe..but his physical attributes mixed in with above average talent makes him a top 5 individual player in his prime.

Lol above average talent?

beliges
02-05-2013, 11:03 PM
So which is it? I watched Mike's whole career and he was not more athletic than Lebron. He had more body control in the air yes, but Lebron was definately faster. And the fact that Lebron has 65 pounds on Jordan with for arguments sake basically the same amount of hops makes him the better athlete. Hes bigger, faster, and stronger than Mike. And yes Mike was an unbeleivable athlete and stood alone during his time as an athlete.

Umm, he's bigger and stronger than MIchael Jordan, that's about it. And if you say he's more athletic than MIchael Jordan, than I really quesrtion if you honestly watched the guy play basketball from 1988-1993. Anytime in that period if you watched that man play ball like I did, there wouldn't be an argument to be made about it. This isn't a subjective statement whatsoever, the guy is the greatest athlete to ever play in the NBA.

My point was, if MJ could retain his skillset and his otherworldy athleticism in the size and frame of LBJ's body, that would make a pretty unstoppable basketball player. But Lebron is not FASTER or more Athletic than Michael. Maybe their quickness and speed sets are quite similar, but athleticism?? Not a chance in hell.

I'm a big fan of both of these players, but I'm very pragmatic in my outlook when comparing these guys. A better comparison to make with MJ is Kobe, whose offensive repertoire is the closest thing I've ever seen since MJ dominated the late 80's and the entire 90's.

Lebron is closer to the mold of Magic than he is Michael. There's no one like Mike.

Lebron is a much more athletic specimen than MJ. Lebron is the most athletically gifted player ever. Not sure how one can really disagree. There's no question lebron is much more athletically gifted than MJ. That's what makes LBJ so great.

_KB24_
02-05-2013, 11:07 PM
Most physically gifted player of all time.

mngopher35
02-05-2013, 11:12 PM
Not sure how one can make a statement like that and make it seem unbiased. Kobe in his prime was a better player than Lebron has been thus far in his career. Better scorer, better offensive player and a better defender. Better finisher, better footwork, better post-up game, etc... But I do understand what you are saying and Lebron has the ability to get to that level with a few more championships. He is clearly the most athletically gifted basketball player to ever play the game. He has some things to polish up still in his game and he hasnt mastered every aspect of the game like MJ and Kobe had done in their primes, but he is still improving and he really doesnt need to polish up anything else as his athleticism is much more superior as compared to MJ and Kobe.

As I stated, only thing left for LBJ to conquer is a dynasty. If he wins another 3 titles, id put him up there with the other great perimeter players such as MJ, Magic and Kobe.

Kobe may have a a larger/better skillset when it comes to footwork and post up game etc, but decision making, passing skills and athleticism help lebron make up for that offensively (also he is shooting well from 3 the last 2 years). Also kobe was a great one on one defender but lebron can be too (maybe not quite as good but still great) and he is also a better help defender and rebounder.


I don't think it is biased to say what hawkeye said at all. Kobe is an all time great with incredible longevity, but lebron imo has the higher peak. To me Lebron last year had a better season than kobe bryant has ever had. Now if your saying where they currently rank all time I agree with you (other than Lebron needing 3 more rings), but I don't think that's what he meant. He was talking about in their prime who was the better player and helped their team the most.

beliges
02-05-2013, 11:23 PM
Not sure how one can make a statement like that and make it seem unbiased. Kobe in his prime was a better player than Lebron has been thus far in his career. Better scorer, better offensive player and a better defender. Better finisher, better footwork, better post-up game, etc... But I do understand what you are saying and Lebron has the ability to get to that level with a few more championships. He is clearly the most athletically gifted basketball player to ever play the game. He has some things to polish up still in his game and he hasnt mastered every aspect of the game like MJ and Kobe had done in their primes, but he is still improving and he really doesnt need to polish up anything else as his athleticism is much more superior as compared to MJ and Kobe.

As I stated, only thing left for LBJ to conquer is a dynasty. If he wins another 3 titles, id put him up there with the other great perimeter players such as MJ, Magic and Kobe.

Kobe may have a a larger/better skillset when it comes to footwork and post up game etc, but decision making, passing skills and athleticism help lebron make up for that offensively (also he is shooting well from 3 the last 2 years). Also kobe was a great one on one defender but lebron can be too (maybe not quite as good but still great) and he is also a better help defender and rebounder.


I don't think it is biased to say what hawkeye said at all. Kobe is an all time great with incredible longevity, but lebron imo has the higher peak. To me Lebron last year had a better season than kobe bryant has ever had. Now if your saying where they currently rank all time I agree with you (other than Lebron needing 3 more rings), but I don't think that's what he meant. He was talking about in their prime who was the better player and helped their team the most.

Well having been lucky to watch both of these great players play for their entire careers I would have to disagree. Kobe in his prime was as unstoppable as anybody ever and his defense was also elite. The only way for this discussion to be settled will be whether lebron can win like kobe. If he does that then we can have a serious discussion. But until he wins a few more titles with this more than capable cast, Kobe will take the nod. Ability to win is more important than any statistic.

b@llhog24
02-05-2013, 11:29 PM
Because winning is the MOST important thing of all. You think Jordan would be considered the GOAT if he had zero rings? Besides individual accomplishments have just as much to do with your team.

Except that's not what this thread is asking.


Are his starts really more impressive than Wilt's or OScar Robertson?

Wilt is comparable, Oscar? Not so much.

mngopher35
02-05-2013, 11:37 PM
Well having been lucky to watch both of these great players play for their entire careers I would have to disagree. Kobe in his prime was as unstoppable as anybody ever and his defense was also elite. The only way for this discussion to be settled will be whether lebron can win like kobe. If he does that then we can have a serious discussion. But until he wins a few more titles with this more than capable cast, Kobe will take the nod. Ability to win is more important than any statistic.

I can agree with this but there is a difference between having a championship caliber team for 7 years (the last 2, this year and let's assume the next 4) and having a championship caliber squad for like 13 or so years (6 of those years and 3 of the titles coming while being the second best player on the team). Also the rings argument has nothing to do with peak. The peak I am describing for Lebron came in a year that his team won it all, and it was better than any year kobe has had.

I am talking about peak individual play, not playing with a great surrounding cast. Lebron statistically had a better year last year than kobe has ever had, and won an mvp and finals mvp as well. Gaining 3 more rings won't change how good of a peak Lebron has had (unless he improves on last year which he may).

LA_Raiders
02-05-2013, 11:52 PM
hell of a dunker

ThaDubs
02-05-2013, 11:52 PM
Who is this LeBron guy? Is that a free agent? All I know is this Dalembert guy who's 16/18.

LeperMessiah
02-06-2013, 12:35 AM
Well Cleavland never won anything. BUT right now he is on a team with more than enough talent to be part of a dynasty. Thats the only thing seperating LBJ from the other all time greats. One thing that has always alluded him was actually winning. Now that he has no excuses as he is on one of the most talented teams in the league, he is set up for greatness. He simply needs to win. He got it done last year but doing it once is not enough. After 3 more titles, Lebron officially enters the legendary status.

One man could only do so much.

That right there is far from the truth. Jordan had significant help, Magic had significant help, hell even Larry Bird. Lebron James entered legendary status a while ago. Homework.

LeperMessiah
02-06-2013, 12:38 AM
Kobe
Shaq
Jordan
Pippen
Magic
Kareem
Bird
The Dream
Duncan
not in any specific order but are all better at affecting a basketball game than lebron

Remove any one of those players from their respective teams, and their teams would have still would have won 40% of their games. Remove LeBron James from the Cavaliers and they won only 20% of their games.