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View Full Version : Raptors developing a new era/dynasty?



aLau10
02-04-2013, 12:58 AM
Forgive me if this may offend some of you PSD users, but I reside in Toronto and so therefore I have became a Raptors fan since I was a kid. Any Raptors fan can understand the pain/rage I feel and would really like the time where we can actually get INTO the game and be a contender. I know it's not much as off right now, but with the recent acquisition of Rudy Gay do you think we can become a contender within the next two years?

We do have a pretty good looking starting 5 unit right now with...
Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Johnson, Valunciunas

and then back up units like...
Lucas, Ross, Fields, Anderson, Gray, Bargnani

I unno I'm just drooling right now in thoughts of what we can potentially trade our bench units for.And for next year who we can pick up via free agency.I unno if there is a thread like this already, but I didn't see it and at the same time I really wanna know what people out there thinks.

So whatchya think? We can build a nice enough team to compete for the trophy or we got ourselves excited too early?

ThaDubs
02-04-2013, 01:02 AM
Not contenders unless you guys obtained one more huge star or a few great players, but you guys are a playoff team now in my opinion and definitely one of my favorite teams to watch (not that you haven't always been).

ManRam
02-04-2013, 01:07 AM
The Raps aren't gonna have any money to really play with in FA after this season. Hell, Bargs, Amir and Gay will make 38 million combined in 2014-2015. That's terrible.

They have a good amount of talent, but let's save the D-Word for a more fitting team.

heyman321
02-04-2013, 01:15 AM
If we started the season over, I think we could be 5-6th seed.

Colangelo better trade Primo Pasta before the deadline. Our big men are still pathetic though. Amir Johnson has the highest foul rate I've ever seen.

justinnum1
02-04-2013, 01:26 AM
I like where they are headed.

beasted86
02-04-2013, 01:29 AM
Dynasty? Can you get over .500 first? win your division? make the playoffs? get past the 2nd round for the first time in franchise history? win the east?

Raptor4life
02-04-2013, 01:32 AM
This man does not speak for the rest of us raptors fans!!!

Hellcrooner
02-04-2013, 01:33 AM
unless Valanciunas develops into a SUPERSTAR, no.
A bunch of players that are above average to fringe allstars wont get away with a ring in the modern era.

b@llhog24
02-04-2013, 01:37 AM
You probably had good intentions, but :laugh:

AWC713
02-04-2013, 01:38 AM
have they used the amesty?

beasted86
02-04-2013, 01:38 AM
unless Valanciunas develops into a SUPERSTAR, no.
A bunch of players that are above average to fringe allstars wont get away with a ring in the modern era.

It can happen if the team has a top 5 defense (see 04 Pistons). Unfortunately the Raptors are 26th in defense.

Avenged
02-04-2013, 01:41 AM
Dynasty.. I chuckled.

This is not a word you should throw out so easily but unfortunately many do.

b@llhog24
02-04-2013, 01:41 AM
Where's RapsChamp?

305 till I die
02-04-2013, 01:42 AM
Billups, Sheed, Wallace in 2004 are all better than any raptors player currently. Also i could argue for Rip being better than Gay.

The raptors are far from being a contender, but they will now be a playoff team for some years to come. I would be happy if i was a raptors fan.

rapsjaysfan88
02-04-2013, 01:44 AM
If the raps can dump bargs and amnesty kleiza, free up 15 mil, get a guy like Paul millsap and a decent bench guy they can be a 5-6 seed for the next couple yrs. as a raps fan I'll take that.

lajoie
02-04-2013, 01:45 AM
lol, a dynasty? How about making the playoffs first?

Hellcrooner
02-04-2013, 01:45 AM
It can happen if the team has a top 5 defense (see 04 Pistons). Unfortunately the Raptors are 26th in defense.
well they DONT have such a defense for starters and then the fact that
back then in 04 the ONLY superteam was the lakers and they had a ton of lockeroom troubles and health problems.
They hold no chance against, heat, knicks, nets, bulls, thunder, lakers ( or hawks/rockets/Mavs if howard moves there).

akesh99
02-04-2013, 01:50 AM
have they used the amesty?

Nope. I believe Bargs, Kleiza and Amir are still amnesty options for us.

In regards to a dynasty...no. We are however forming a nice core that should lead to a fun team to watch and consistent playoff appearances. We are still a long way from making real noise, but i like the acquisition of Rudy, and having pieces like Bargnani who i believe a team will bite on makes me excited to see what Colangelo can do with this team.

mjt20mik
02-04-2013, 01:55 AM
Dynasty... no. But they do have the potential to be something good. They are a few pieces away though.

ThaDubs
02-04-2013, 01:57 AM
lol, a dynasty? How about making the playoffs first?

Restart reg season.

aLau10
02-04-2013, 02:05 AM
Like I said, I meant no harm just for discussion to see what others think of this team and wheres its gonna head to.
And I'll admit I used the wrong text when I said "dynasty" I'll take that back! :D

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 02:08 AM
dynasty is def the wrong word ...

Let's wait and see how the roster shapes up, I have a feeling Colangelo is not done. We can be a good playoff team.

LeperMessiah
02-04-2013, 02:21 AM
have they used the amesty?

Fortunately no, unfortunately who do you use it on

Tmath
02-04-2013, 02:28 AM
If we get a lost post scorer and some outside shooting then we can be a pretty good team. Dynasty no, playoff team yes.

shep33
02-04-2013, 02:30 AM
They're basically stuck with this group though. Even if you take away Bargs's and Kleiza's deal, the Raps are at 55.2 mill with just Gay, Lowry, Fields, Amir, Jonas, Derozan, Gray and Ross.


55.2 mill... and that's assuming they get rid of Bargs + Kleiza for something that gives them back 0 salary for next year.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-04-2013, 02:47 AM
:laugh2:

We're VERY FAR from becoming a dynasty.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-04-2013, 02:48 AM
Where's RapsChamp?

Yes?

TheNumber37
02-04-2013, 03:01 AM
Rudy Gay is a top 30 player. Derozan is top 75. I don't see how you build a dynasty with those two players as the cornerstone.

murphturph
02-04-2013, 03:15 AM
Barg fields and anderson for Pau Gasol would be amazing!!

PG: Lowry
Sg: Derozan
Sf: Gay
pf: Gasol
C: Valinciunas
6th: Amir Johnson and Terrence Ross

I Think that could really be a 4,5 seed next year

And i think Rudy is going to become a star in Toronto
, almost like Harden became in Houston.

bholly
02-04-2013, 03:15 AM
Honestly, I'd be pretty furious if I was a Raptors fan, and I'm surprised at how much optimism there is amongst them. The FO is awful and is pretty much following the exact blueprint for building continued and painful mediocrity - overpaying for second and third tier talent without ever really rebuilding properly. We see it all the time with team after team after team - I just can't see it ending well at all.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 03:30 AM
Honestly, I'd be pretty furious if I was a Raptors fan, and I'm surprised at how much optimism there is amongst them. The FO is awful and is pretty much following the exact blueprint for building continued and painful mediocrity - overpaying for second and third tier talent without ever really rebuilding properly. We see it all the time with team after team after team - I just can't see it ending well at all.

There is only so much top tier talent in this league and sadly they are all playing with each other and only want to play in LA/MIA/NYC. It doesn't really leave you with much other choice.

sventhedog
02-04-2013, 04:01 AM
too much offense.

monty77
02-04-2013, 07:23 AM
Anybody knows what need a team to became a winner. If we glance Toronto roster we found great, younger players like Gay, Bargnani, DeRozar, Lowry. There are other players who could develop a good role as: Amir Johnson, Fields and Kleiza and, finally, there are players who are going to improve in next years: Ross and Valanciunas.

The average age of this nine players are: 24,4 so, if Raptors could keep all them together and add some quality player through Draft, they'll have the chance to reach second round in playoffs in two-tree years without no doubts.

I think that Calderon departure was needed because Lowry have to show his game, and further everyone knew that Calderon won't want to resign with Raptors, so they were able to take advantage of the situation getting a great player like Gay, with a long remaining contract.

If Raptors are able to sign a defensive strong player who mix with Bargnani, Johnson and Valaciunas, they are gonna be a team to be reckoned. Regardless it, with current roster, they probably will reach playoffs position next year ahead teams like Boston, 76ers, Bucks and so on.

sep11ie
02-04-2013, 07:54 AM
Yea, Gay is a once in a lifetime talent...

ThaDubs
02-04-2013, 07:55 AM
Anybody knows what need a team to became a winner. If we glance Toronto roster we found great, younger players like Gay, Bargnani, DeRozar, Lowry. There are other players who could develop a good role as: Amir Johnson, Fields and Kleiza and, finally, there are players who are going to improve in next years: Ross and Valanciunas.

The average age of this nine players are: 24,4 so, if Raptors could keep all them together and add some quality player through Draft, they'll have the chance to reach second round in playoffs in two-tree years without no doubts.

I think that Calderon departure was needed because Lowry have to show his game, and further everyone knew that Calderon won't want to resign with Raptors, so they were able to take advantage of the situation getting a great player like Gay, with a long remaining contract.

If Raptors are able to sign a defensive strong player who mix with Bargnani, Johnson and Valaciunas, they are gonna be a team to be reckoned. Regardless it, with current roster, they probably will reach playoffs position next year ahead teams like Boston, 76ers, Bucks and so on.

Lol, dude, they're definitely not holding on to Nani for much longer...

eugene
02-04-2013, 08:08 AM
only in case valanciunas develops into superstar in next two years

2-ONE-5
02-04-2013, 08:42 AM
1. Raptors thread?
2. Does the OP know that to be a dynasty u have to win a ship or does he think a couple first round sweeps is the equivalent?

pebloemer
02-04-2013, 09:02 AM
Dynasty? Can you get over .500 first? win your division? make the playoffs? get past the 2nd round for the first time in franchise history? win the east?

This.


unless Valanciunas develops into a SUPERSTAR, no.
A bunch of players that are above average to fringe allstars wont get away with a ring in the modern era.

This.

dayman
02-04-2013, 09:06 AM
Dynasty is completely the wrong word here.

Whether or not they become good team depends solely on what is done with Bargnani. I don't think he has enough time to raise his value before this trade deadline. I see him finishing out the year with the Raptors in a 6th man type of role and being dealt in the off season. For who/what remains the question, but the Bargnani experiment is coming to an end in Toronto.

BALLER R
02-04-2013, 09:17 AM
Only if Ross and Jonas become stars

LeperMessiah
02-04-2013, 09:28 AM
One must win a championship before Dynasty can come into question.

Weezy
02-04-2013, 09:58 AM
:laugh2: pretty funny but yea I think they will make the playoffs next year.

Ill21
02-04-2013, 10:05 AM
I would say yes if they had cap flexibility but they are in a tight spot with that.

knickfan33
02-04-2013, 10:11 AM
Forgive me if this may offend some of you PSD users, but I reside in Toronto and so therefore I have became a Raptors fan since I was a kid. Any Raptors fan can understand the pain/rage I feel and would really like the time where we can actually get INTO the game and be a contender. I know it's not much as off right now, but with the recent acquisition of Rudy Gay do you think we can become a contender within the next two years?

We do have a pretty good looking starting 5 unit right now with...
Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Johnson, Valunciunas

and then back up units like...
Lucas, Ross, Fields, Anderson, Gray, Bargnani

I unno I'm just drooling right now in thoughts of what we can potentially trade our bench units for.And for next year who we can pick up via free agency.I unno if there is a thread like this already, but I didn't see it and at the same time I really wanna know what people out there thinks.

So whatchya think? We can build a nice enough team to compete for the trophy or we got ourselves excited too early?

did you say dynasty?......
ahhhhhhhhh hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha 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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.. .. no.

koreancabbage
02-04-2013, 10:12 AM
ugh, i hate when OPs from fanbases make threads like these in the main forum.

atm, i am :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: myself to death right now and would like to say I don't know this Raptors fan

Weezy
02-04-2013, 10:15 AM
ugh, i hate when OPs from fanbases make threads like these in the main forum.

atm, i am :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: myself to death right now and would like to say I don't know this Raptors fan

Trust me, as a Knicks fan I know exactly how you feel.

aLau10
02-04-2013, 10:15 AM
Honestly, I'd be pretty furious if I was a Raptors fan, and I'm surprised at how much optimism there is amongst them. The FO is awful and is pretty much following the exact blueprint for building continued and painful mediocrity - overpaying for second and third tier talent without ever really rebuilding properly. We see it all the time with team after team after team - I just can't see it ending well at all.

Exactly what I've always thought, but trying to keep myself optimistic and I know there are a bunch if raptors fans out there that rly buys this trade done but colangelo.... I personally didnt really like it much because we ain't tankin properly.... But whats done is done so I came here to look for some optimistic thoughts of our future.... :)

YoungOne
02-04-2013, 10:25 AM
man how fast our division got from weakest to probably strongest -.-

Knick bag
02-04-2013, 10:35 AM
I like the Raps. Rudy Gay is a great player but bring on the GAY-ness?!? LOL I know what you mean but... LOL

Vincent33
02-04-2013, 10:39 AM
Dynasty eh? New era I'll buy, but no way are they close to building a dynasty. Need to win a few chips first

FlakeyFool
02-04-2013, 11:06 AM
Dynasty of mediocrity

IndyRealist
02-04-2013, 11:21 AM
They handcuffed themselves with Gay's salary. Once they pay DeRozan they have no cap space until 2015 even if they move Bargs.

LeperMessiah
02-04-2013, 11:22 AM
ugh, i hate when OPs from fanbases make threads like these in the main forum.

atm, i am :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: myself to death right now and would like to say I don't know this Raptors fan

You genuinely don't, so there's that.

LeperMessiah
02-04-2013, 11:24 AM
Maybe the Raptors are trying to ensure that OKC gets the worst pick possible... Could be a smart move.

ghettosean
02-04-2013, 11:56 AM
We are not a dynasty yet... If we can trade Bargs + others for someone special maybe but as of now no but I will say we are one damn exciting team to watch now!

dalton749
02-04-2013, 11:57 AM
Maybe the Raptors are trying to ensure that OKC gets the worst pick possible... Could be a smart move.

but the refs are trying to make sure they get the best pick possible haha.

not a dynasty, never will be.
but if lowry gets healthy again the 1-3 are all just below all-star level with the chance that bargnani can find what he was doing last year and come off the bench. valanciunas and ross both have all star potential so in a few years we could have a solid squad but still likely wont contend.

we need to wait and see how much better derozan is now that he cant be doubled all the time because his game is really coming around. suprisingly hes got one of the better mid range games in the league now from the wing and the numbers from there should improve now that hes not the last second shot guy.

aLau10
02-04-2013, 12:22 PM
You genuinely don't, so there's that.

Thanks :)

But I am feeling what you are all saying and when I posted this thread I'm standing on the side full of doubt.... But I would really wanna see if there are any others thinking differently and give me a reason why they think the raps can make a run to contend. Don't get me wrong I love this team and I'm excited but I feel like we got impatient and made a move way too early...

Tmath
02-04-2013, 12:42 PM
I'm going to wait until next season when the roster should be set and the rookies who are going to be key pieces moving forward are more developed.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 12:51 PM
They handcuffed themselves with Gay's salary. Once they pay DeRozan they have no cap space until 2015 even if they move Bargs.

They have already paid DeRozan.

If we can trade Bargnani for an expiring and amnesty Kleiza if he decides to pick up his player option next season, then we will have some room to improve.

koreancabbage
02-04-2013, 12:51 PM
Thanks :)

But I am feeling what you are all saying and when I posted this thread I'm standing on the side full of doubt.... But I would really wanna see if there are any others thinking differently and give me a reason why they think the raps can make a run to contend. Don't get me wrong I love this team and I'm excited but I feel like we got impatient and made a move way too early...

how can it be a dynasty if we aren't over .500? lets not use these terms cuz they just cheapen their usage. lets hope they get to the playoffs and maybe win a a championship before using the word dynasty.

gwrighter
02-04-2013, 01:30 PM
I'm going to wait until next season when the roster should be set and the rookies who are going to be key pieces moving forward are more developed.

Agreed, it takes about a full season for a roster to develop the necessary chemistry to perform at the highest level.

There are a bunch of shot takers on the team now. They need to establish a pecking order/rhythm. In time.

This is a new era of T.O. basketball. It's still early but I think there is a good chance Rudy makes the AS game next year.

xRipCity
02-04-2013, 01:36 PM
When they lost Ed Davis they lost their rebuilding idea. Rudy Gay isn't that young, and does not make this team a contender. He's overpaid and will be gone in two years

JasonJohnHorn
02-04-2013, 01:38 PM
Other than Gay, everybody on that team is average. I'm a Raptors fan, and this is what I see in the the Raptors forum all the time. The fans celebrate mediocrity.

Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Johnson, Valunciunas
Lucas, Ross, Fields, Anderson, Gray, Bargnani

How many of these guys, outside of Gay, would even be starting on a contender? Lowry is good, but he is a middle-of-the-pack PG. There are at least 15 or 16 PGs in the league better than him. The same can be said of DeRozen. I love Amir Johnson frm back in his Detroit days. He's a hard worker, but he is simply not an All-Star. I have a lot of respect for him, but no, if he's your starting PF in the playoffs, he's going to be losing that position in most instances. Valaniciunas? I have to see more of him. He's young and big, and has some potential, but he's a long way off from being an All-Star. As for the bench, I like Aaron Gray, but let's be honest, that bench is filled with guy who wouldn't even be in the rotation on a contender. Bargnani? Don't even get me started on how soft that guy is.


If this team played to their max-potential every game, they might be able to make the playoffs, but no way you get out of the first round.

I can see how you might look at this group and think there is some potential, but at the same time, if you put them alongside the starting line-up of a team like the Lakers, who aren't even a .500 team in this league right now, you'd see that the Raptors would get blown out of the water by them.

Lowry Gay and DeRozen? You look at what other teams are putting on the floor: LBJ Wade and Bosh, or Kobe Howard and Pau, or Durant Westbrook and Ibaka, or Melo Chandler and Amare, and Toronto doesn't even come close to comparing to these clubs.

Coangelo has fawked the Raptors up royally. He's swinging for the fences to keep his job now, just like he was swinging for the fences when he was trying to keep Bosh, but none of his moves really make the team better.

No... Gay, Lowry and DeRozen do not add up to a dynasty, not when teams can put out Duncan, Manu and Parker, or CP3, Griffin and Bledsoe, or Lopez, D-Will and JJ.


Combined All-Star game appearances + ALL NBA appearances, + All Defensive appearances for all current members of the Raptors = ZERO!

gwrighter
02-04-2013, 01:52 PM
Other than Gay, everybody on that team is average. I'm a Raptors fan, and this is what I see in the the Raptors forum all the time. The fans celebrate mediocrity.

Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Johnson, Valunciunas
Lucas, Ross, Fields, Anderson, Gray, Bargnani

How many of these guys, outside of Gay, would even be starting on a contender? Lowry is good, but he is a middle-of-the-pack PG. There are at least 15 or 16 PGs in the league better than him. The same can be said of DeRozen. I love Amir Johnson frm back in his Detroit days. He's a hard worker, but he is simply not an All-Star. I have a lot of respect for him, but no, if he's your starting PF in the playoffs, he's going to be losing that position in most instances. Valaniciunas? I have to see more of him. He's young and big, and has some potential, but he's a long way off from being an All-Star. As for the bench, I like Aaron Gray, but let's be honest, that bench is filled with guy who wouldn't even be in the rotation on a contender. Bargnani? Don't even get me started on how soft that guy is.


If this team played to their max-potential every game, they might be able to make the playoffs, but no way you get out of the first round.

I can see how you might look at this group and think there is some potential, but at the same time, if you put them alongside the starting line-up of a team like the Lakers, who aren't even a .500 team in this league right now, you'd see that the Raptors would get blown out of the water by them.

Lowry Gay and DeRozen? You look at what other teams are putting on the floor: LBJ Wade and Bosh, or Kobe Howard and Pau, or Durant Westbrook and Ibaka, or Melo Chandler and Amare, and Toronto doesn't even come close to comparing to these clubs.

Coangelo has fawked the Raptors up royally. He's swinging for the fences to keep his job now, just like he was swinging for the fences when he was trying to keep Bosh, but none of his moves really make the team better.

No... Gay, Lowry and DeRozen do not add up to a dynasty, not when teams can put out Duncan, Manu and Parker, or CP3, Griffin and Bledsoe, or Lopez, D-Will and JJ.


Combined All-Star game appearances + ALL NBA appearances, + All Defensive appearances for all current members of the Raptors = ZERO!

This post is complete crap.

akesh99
02-04-2013, 01:59 PM
Other than Gay, everybody on that team is average. I'm a Raptors fan, and this is what I see in the the Raptors forum all the time. The fans celebrate mediocrity.

Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Johnson, Valunciunas
Lucas, Ross, Fields, Anderson, Gray, Bargnani

How many of these guys, outside of Gay, would even be starting on a contender? Lowry is good, but he is a middle-of-the-pack PG. There are at least 15 or 16 PGs in the league better than him. The same can be said of DeRozen. I love Amir Johnson frm back in his Detroit days. He's a hard worker, but he is simply not an All-Star. I have a lot of respect for him, but no, if he's your starting PF in the playoffs, he's going to be losing that position in most instances. Valaniciunas? I have to see more of him. He's young and big, and has some potential, but he's a long way off from being an All-Star. As for the bench, I like Aaron Gray, but let's be honest, that bench is filled with guy who wouldn't even be in the rotation on a contender. Bargnani? Don't even get me started on how soft that guy is.


If this team played to their max-potential every game, they might be able to make the playoffs, but no way you get out of the first round.

I can see how you might look at this group and think there is some potential, but at the same time, if you put them alongside the starting line-up of a team like the Lakers, who aren't even a .500 team in this league right now, you'd see that the Raptors would get blown out of the water by them.

Lowry Gay and DeRozen? You look at what other teams are putting on the floor: LBJ Wade and Bosh, or Kobe Howard and Pau, or Durant Westbrook and Ibaka, or Melo Chandler and Amare, and Toronto doesn't even come close to comparing to these clubs.

Coangelo has fawked the Raptors up royally. He's swinging for the fences to keep his job now, just like he was swinging for the fences when he was trying to keep Bosh, but none of his moves really make the team better.

No... Gay, Lowry and DeRozen do not add up to a dynasty, not when teams can put out Duncan, Manu and Parker, or CP3, Griffin and Bledsoe, or Lopez, D-Will and JJ.


Combined All-Star game appearances + ALL NBA appearances, + All Defensive appearances for all current members of the Raptors = ZERO!

We beat the Lakers last week and that was without Gay.

Also I think you're undervaluing our pieces a little bit. Lowry has the potential to be a top 10-12 PG and maybe now that Jose has been shipped out he'll finally have the opportunity to showcase his talents? Regarding Derozan- him and Rudy seem to have great chemistry right off the bat. They combined for something like 56 pts yesterday against Miami. Throw in the potential development of guys like Val and Ross as well as potential trades of guys like Bargs/Fields/Kleiza and I see the Raps being a playoff team. I'm not looking at a ship or even an ECF appearance any time soon, but next year, I dont see a second round appearance as completely off the table. That makes me happy as a raps fan.

IndyRealist
02-04-2013, 02:11 PM
They have already paid DeRozan.

If we can trade Bargnani for an expiring and amnesty Kleiza if he decides to pick up his player option next season, then we will have some room to improve.

It's a $36M extension that starts next year, right? So They'll be around $70M in salary commitments with him. Even if they manage to move Bargs and Kleiza, that leaves them basically at the salary cap (around $56M with a $59M cap). They have no room to improve.

Borough
02-04-2013, 02:12 PM
If this team was in place before the superteam era then we would be contenders

Chronz
02-04-2013, 02:17 PM
It can happen if the team has a top 5 defense (see 04 Pistons). Unfortunately the Raptors are 26th in defense.

04 Pistons were more than just a top 5 defense, they were the best defense ever. And thats whats made them stars. Billups and Ben were well above fringe all-star level, the rest I cant agree with.

xRipCity
02-04-2013, 02:18 PM
The Raptors ironically traded with a team that did their theory better than they can. Get good enough to make playoffs, but not quite (or ever) contend for title, and get bad draft picks (so no improvement, stuck in cycle). The Grizzlies got close to possible contention a couple of times, but this Raptors team never will. The Hawks also were victims to this cylce for many years

GodsSon
02-04-2013, 02:28 PM
The Raptors ironically traded with a team that did their theory better than they can. Get good enough to make playoffs, but not quite (or ever) contend for title, and get bad draft picks (so no improvement, stuck in cycle). The Grizzlies got close to possible contention a couple of times, but this Raptors team never will. The Hawks also were victims to this cylce for many years

So what exactly do you think 27 teams in the NBA should do? Constantly tank waiting for a superstar to fall into their lap? Because really, there are only about 3 teams every year with an actual chance of winning a title.

I wasn't a big fan of the Gay trade, but eventually ownership has to sell it's fan-base more than just hope.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 02:32 PM
It's a $36M extension that starts next year, right? So They'll be around $70M in salary commitments with him. Even if they manage to move Bargs and Kleiza, that leaves them basically at the salary cap (around $56M with a $59M cap). They have no room to improve.

If Kleiza picks up his player option they will be at around 62 million. If he does, all signs point to them using the amnesty clause on him which would bring it to around 57 million.

If they can trade Bargnani for an expiring, that could get them to around 47 million.

Another scenario, If we can't trade Bargnani and Kleiza decides not to pick up his option, which I am hoping for, we can amnesty Bargnani, which would again bring it down to 47 million.

Colangelo also hinted about going into the luxury if the right deal presents its self. The new owners seem to want to win, and are willing to pay the money to meet that goal.

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 02:34 PM
So what exactly do you think 27 teams in the NBA should do? Constantly tank waiting for a superstar to fall into their lap? Because really, there are only about 3 teams every year with an actual chance of winning a title.

I wasn't a big fan of the Gay trade, but eventually ownership has to sell it's fan-base more than just hope.

Well said.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 02:36 PM
The Raptors ironically traded with a team that did their theory better than they can. Get good enough to make playoffs, but not quite (or ever) contend for title, and get bad draft picks (so no improvement, stuck in cycle). The Grizzlies got close to possible contention a couple of times, but this Raptors team never will. The Hawks also were victims to this cylce for many years

Kind of like the Blazers.

heyman321
02-04-2013, 02:41 PM
If this team was in place before the superteam era then we would be contenders

No...we are average 6-7 seed at best. We need a legit power forward and a full season to gel. Also, Varsity Blues suck so hard.

ink
02-04-2013, 02:45 PM
This post is complete crap.

Why not counter his points? I didn't think he was unfair at all. In fact, point by point it's hard to disagree.

ink
02-04-2013, 02:48 PM
The Raptors ironically traded with a team that did their theory better than they can. Get good enough to make playoffs, but not quite (or ever) contend for title, and get bad draft picks (so no improvement, stuck in cycle). The Grizzlies got close to possible contention a couple of times, but this Raptors team never will. The Hawks also were victims to this cylce for many years

I think you're saying what most of us Raptors fans don't want to hear right now. The best answer to your solid points is that if we are going to be one the treadmill teams the Grizzlies also were, we might as well be entertaining. Though I've been a long time supporter of BC it's hard to deny that he is a showman and will put flash before substance in order to keep his job or keep ownership happy with their profits.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-04-2013, 02:59 PM
Forgive me if this may offend some of you PSD users, but I reside in Toronto and so therefore I have became a Raptors fan since I was a kid. Any Raptors fan can understand the pain/rage I feel and would really like the time where we can actually get INTO the game and be a contender. I know it's not much as off right now, but with the recent acquisition of Rudy Gay do you think we can become a contender within the next two years?

We do have a pretty good looking starting 5 unit right now with...
Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Johnson, Valunciunas

and then back up units like...
Lucas, Ross, Fields, Anderson, Gray, Bargnani

I unno I'm just drooling right now in thoughts of what we can potentially trade our bench units for.And for next year who we can pick up via free agency.I unno if there is a thread like this already, but I didn't see it and at the same time I really wanna know what people out there thinks.

So whatchya think? We can build a nice enough team to compete for the trophy or we got ourselves excited too early?

Raptors will not make it to the finals for the next 20 years. Sorry to hurt your feeling but Toronto will never have the personale to win the ship.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 03:02 PM
The Raptors can't improve their team in free agency, but thats ok because Toronto doesn't attract good FA's anyways and next seasons free agent crop is thin.

The Raptors can however improve their team by trades, and we have pieces to do so. We have highly coveted rookies that could land us another star player, and Bargnani who could we are likely to trade.

I'm not sure how its going to play out, but I'm interested to see how it does. I just want a team that has a chance to advance past the 1st round, to at least give them a chance. Its going to be hard for any team that isn't the Heat, Clippers & OKC to win a championship for the next few years.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 03:03 PM
Raptors will not make it to the finals for the next 20 years. Sorry to hurt your feeling but Toronto will never have the personale to win the ship.

Ok, Ms Cleo.

You could be right, but its stupid to make such a statement.

JasonJohnHorn
02-04-2013, 03:08 PM
This post is complete crap.

How so?

Did I do my math wrong? Does somebody on the Raptors actually have an All-Star appearance? Or an All-NBA team appearance? Or an All-Defensive team appearance? Look, I'm a Raptors fan. I REALLY want this team to be good, but they aren't even a playoff team, as we have seen all season long. Coangelo has done an awful job overpaying for average players (Hedu, Jack, Kapono, Fields) and does it every year, so he cloearly hasn't learned his lesson. Is Gay a great player? Yes. Does he make this team better? Not really. We traded perhaps our best rebounder in Ed Davis for him, and lost our best PG for a SF who has yet to make an All-Star game, yet is being paid out a max deal. Lowry? He is good. But he's not even top ten at his position.

So what about my post was crap? I'll tell you what's crap, the Raptors. Anybody who thinks this team is going to contend with this roster is dreaming. I've been saying this since the offseason, when many Raptors fans were going on about making the playoffs THIS year.

And so long as Coangelo is running things in Toronto, this team will not win.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 03:14 PM
All-Stars are voted by the fans. There are plenty of guys that deserved that title, but didn't get in because of votes.

ghettosean
02-04-2013, 03:27 PM
I love when people use the all star debate about players to justify why they are no good for team... Jeremy Lin got twice as many votes as Harden and 8 times as many votes as Tony Parker this year but that doesn't make him 8 times better than Parker :facepalm:

LeperMessiah
02-04-2013, 04:23 PM
When they lost Ed Davis they lost their rebuilding idea. Rudy Gay isn't that young, and does not make this team a contender. He's overpaid and will be gone in two years

He's 26.

heyman321
02-04-2013, 04:27 PM
Raptors will not make it to the finals for the next 20 years. Sorry to hurt your feeling but Toronto will never have the personale to win the ship.

I agree. Which is why we should've just tried to tank for Wiggins, who is supposed to be the best player since Lebron.

xRipCity
02-04-2013, 04:31 PM
So what exactly do you think 27 teams in the NBA should do? Constantly tank waiting for a superstar to fall into their lap? Because really, there are only about 3 teams every year with an actual chance of winning a title.

I wasn't a big fan of the Gay trade, but eventually ownership has to sell it's fan-base more than just hope.

It's tough, and takes dedicated years to just tanking. The Thunder did it beautifully. That's the only winning formula (unless you are a team located in a major sports city and players want to go there and you can convince them to take reduced salaries and group up and dominate)

xRipCity
02-04-2013, 04:31 PM
I agree. Which is why we should've just tried to tank for Wiggins, who is supposed to be the best player since Lebron.

This guy gets it.

xRipCity
02-04-2013, 04:33 PM
I think you're saying what most of us Raptors fans don't want to hear right now. The best answer to your solid points is that if we are going to be one the treadmill teams the Grizzlies also were, we might as well be entertaining. Though I've been a long time supporter of BC it's hard to deny that he is a showman and will put flash before substance in order to keep his job or keep ownership happy with their profits.

A rebuilding era is TOUGH on a gm, I understand. But true success comes after failure, and fans have to be patient

Tmath
02-04-2013, 04:48 PM
This guy gets it.

Do you know the odds of us actually getting Wiggins? and what if he busts or gets a serious injury? then what?

jon32
02-04-2013, 04:48 PM
They will be when Wiggins signs in Toronto in his prime......hopefully he can convince a couple stars to come with him :)

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 04:49 PM
A rebuilding era is TOUGH on a gm, I understand. But true success comes after failure, and fans have to be patient

4 season's out of the playoffs isnt considered failure ? 17 seasons in the league and only have ever got out of the first round once, thats failure. doesnt promise you anything. the draft is a lottery.. chance & luck play a huge part.

we tried tanking, didnt get us very far..

blahblahyoutoo
02-04-2013, 05:00 PM
lol fields.

dtmagnet
02-04-2013, 05:20 PM
Do you know how many years the Raptors have been tanking? Since Bosh left and the highest pick they've gotten is 5th overall, if you keep doing it year after year fans will just forget about the team and they will end up relocating to the USA. Toronto needs to establish a winning culture more than anything and that begins with being a playoff team.

gwrighter
02-04-2013, 05:21 PM
I agree. Which is why we should've just tried to tank for Wiggins, who is supposed to be the best player since Lebron.

Why can't the Raptors just trade one of their players for a top draft pick instead of tanking for one?

aLau10
02-04-2013, 05:33 PM
I realize that the Craptors have tanked for a long while, but ever since the VC era we tanked for 3 years and got Bosh and drafted Bargs thinking they would create a nice frontcourt duo, but failed obviously... then we tanked for another 3 years now we got Gay... I can only see another first round exit at most with this team, unless we bring in another star player buy trading Bargs.... I still love the team, I'm just gonna stay optimistic about the raptors making the playoffs first....

ghettosean
02-04-2013, 05:40 PM
4 season's out of the playoffs isnt considered failure ? 17 seasons in the league and only have ever got out of the first round once, thats failure. doesnt promise you anything. the draft is a lottery.. chance & luck play a huge part.

we tried tanking, didnt get us very far..

This!

ddhulett
02-04-2013, 05:47 PM
17-31 as of February 4th. That should tell you something, Gay is good but not that good and you lost a pretty good PG.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 05:53 PM
17-31 as of February 4th. That should tell you something, Gay is good but not that good and you lost a pretty good PG.

They got Rudy less than a week ago, he has played 2 games with them. They also have had many key injuries this season. After the terrible 4-19 start, they have gone 13-12. Now with Rudy, they should be able to play above .500 basketball.

ddhulett
02-04-2013, 06:00 PM
I understand that but what team doesn't deal with injuries? Rudy is shooting 40% from the field at 17 points a game, that's not necessarily going to help all that much. You never want to be just above .500 team that get's you know where. If the raps can get more out of Bargnani then it's going to be a dangerous team.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 06:09 PM
I understand that but what team doesn't deal with injuries? Rudy is shooting 40% from the field at 17 points a game, that's not necessarily going to help all that much. You never want to be just above .500 team that get's you know where. If the raps can get more out of Bargnani then it's going to be a dangerous team.

He is playing in a different system now, who's to say those percentages can't go up? and FG percentage is only one aspect of the game. He does a lot more on the floor then just score. Before we had Landry Fields & Alan Anderson playing the SF position, Rudy changes the whole dynamic of the team.

Its all about baby steps. 1st step is to win more than you lose, then go from there.

Vancity
02-04-2013, 06:17 PM
They should have 2 more wins at least for the 4 blown calls at the end of the game. Injuries be damned.

Pacerlive
02-04-2013, 06:26 PM
If the Raptors want to get above 500 on a consistent basis they need to play some defense. Having one or two players doesn't cut it which is why the Bulls can play without the Rose and why the Pacers can overcome the loss of Granger and Hibbert playing like crap on offense.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 06:26 PM
They should have 2 more wins at least for the 4 blown calls at the end of the game. Injuries be damned.

Yup, good point. You also have to factor though that other teams get robbed by officials too. But I do believe they were a little better than their record shows, and now with Rudy and possibly more trades to come, we will be a much better team than the one we started off with this season.

canzano55
02-04-2013, 06:29 PM
The Raptors ironically traded with a team that did their theory better than they can. Get good enough to make playoffs, but not quite (or ever) contend for title, and get bad draft picks (so no improvement, stuck in cycle). The Grizzlies got close to possible contention a couple of times, but this Raptors team never will. The Hawks also were victims to this cylce for many yearsUnfortunately, this.

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 06:34 PM
If the Raptors want to get above 500 on a consistent basis they need to play some defense. Having one or two players doesn't cut it which is why the Bulls can play without the Rose and why the Pacers can overcome the loss of Granger and Hibbert playing like crap on offense.

wich is exactly what caseys trying to do. much better coach for the job then jay triano was.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 06:34 PM
If the Raptors want to get above 500 on a consistent basis they need to play some defense. Having one or two players doesn't cut it which is why the Bulls can play without the Rose and why the Pacers can overcome the loss of Granger and Hibbert playing like crap on offense.

We aren't terrible defensively, they sure can improve in that category. We held the Clippers to 72 points the other night. 68 if Caron Butler didn't do that douche steal at the end.

Now that Calderon is gone (our worst perimeter defender) and Ed Davis (our worst post defender) who were playing a lot of mins, I expect us to improve in that category.

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 06:36 PM
I understand that but what team doesn't deal with injuries? Rudy is shooting 40% from the field at 17 points a game, that's not necessarily going to help all that much. You never want to be just above .500 team that get's you know where. If the raps can get more out of Bargnani then it's going to be a dangerous team.

hope bargs can play well off the bench for us. it would make a big difference i think

mike_noodles
02-04-2013, 06:40 PM
I honestly thought this was a joke thread, but it's supposed to be serious I guess. And I'm a Raptors fan. Let's get to .500 first, then make the playoffs. Dynasty... smh.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 06:42 PM
Also, our defensive numbers look worse than they are. For a big chunk of the season, we had a rookie starting at the C, Bargnani at the PF & Jose on at the same time. That really hurt our defense.

Now we have athletic players at every position except from C, but Gray has pretty good post defense.

Once Valanciunas develops and gets stronger, he will be a much better option then having Gray there.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 06:43 PM
I honestly thought this was a joke thread, but it's supposed to be serious I guess. And I'm a Raptors fan. Let's get to .500 first, then make the playoffs. Dynasty... smh.

The OP got way ahead of himself, luckily he doesn't speak for all Raptors fans. Using the word "Dynasty" was a mistake on his part.

mp3
02-04-2013, 06:52 PM
Lowry, DeRozan, and Gay all shoot a poor percentage. Not the most efficient players. Not seeing the hype.

ink
02-04-2013, 06:56 PM
The OP got way ahead of himself, luckily he doesn't speak for all Raptors fans. Using the word "Dynasty" was a mistake on his part.

tbh he only said what a lot of Raptors fans have been talking like since the trade. Not saying "dynasty" but seeing the trade and then the beatdown on the (struggling) Clippers and predicting all kinds of things. I get the exuberance but seriously it's not like the guy is way out there compared with everyone else.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 07:01 PM
Lowry, DeRozan, and Gay all shoot a poor percentage. Not the most efficient players. Not seeing the hype.

With the acquisition of Rudy, DeMar and Lowry's FG% could go up because he opens the floor up for them and vice versa.

People use FG% like its the be all end all. Lets just see a bigger sample size how they play together before asuming it won't work, same goes for the OP before calling them a Dynasty.

Pacerlive
02-04-2013, 07:03 PM
We aren't terrible defensively, they sure can improve in that category. We held the Clippers to 72 points the other night. 68 if Caron Butler didn't do that douche steal at the end.

Now that Calderon is gone (our worst perimeter defender) and Ed Davis (our worst post defender) who were playing a lot of mins, I expect us to improve in that category.

In the East your going to have to rely on your defense more than your offense. I don't see one guy who I would hang my hat on to get a stop for the Raptors. The Bulls, Pacers and the Knicks have more than one who will do the job and everyone knows the Heat can clamp down when they want to. Team defense in the post and on the perimeter has always been their problem. You can't mask a guy like Bargs on defense. He just has too many flaws like a former pacer named Murphy.

I agree getting rid of Calderon will help but you still have to be sold out as a unit and having one or two guys won't cut it IMO.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 07:04 PM
tbh he only said what a lot of Raptors fans have been talking like since the trade. Not saying "dynasty" but seeing the trade and then the beatdown on the (struggling) Clippers and predicting all kinds of things. I get the exuberance but seriously it's not like the guy is way out there compared with everyone else.

All I said was, I liked the direction and upside the team has. I never said they were a contender or even dynasty. What I do know is, they will be a lot more exciting to watch then past teams, and SHOULD be a lot better then what they are now.

boateng
02-04-2013, 07:07 PM
No.
Rudy Gay is not a franchise player let alone all star.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 07:08 PM
In the East your going to have to rely on your defense more than your offense. I don't see one guy who I would hang my hat on to get a stop for the Raptors. The Bulls, Pacers and the Knicks have more than one who will do the job and everyone knows the Heat can clamp down when they want to. Team defense in the post and on the perimeter has always been their problem. You can't mask a guy like Bargs on defense. He just has too many flaws like a former pacer named Murphy.

I agree getting rid of Calderon will help but you still have to be sold out as a unit and having one or two guys won't cut it IMO.

The GM has already hinted to replacing Bargs, hopefully he gets a guy that is competent on the defensive end to replace him. All signs point to Bargs being traded and if he isn't, he will come off the bench, and he isn't a bad guy to have coming off the bench.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 07:11 PM
No.
Rudy Gay is not a franchise player let alone all star.

If he continues the numbers he is putting up with Toronto (I know, small sample size) he is definitely in that class.

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 07:12 PM
tbh he only said what a lot of Raptors fans have been talking like since the trade. Not saying "dynasty" but seeing the trade and then the beatdown on the (struggling) Clippers and predicting all kinds of things. I get the exuberance but seriously it's not like the guy is way out there compared with everyone else.

I disagree, I think we have an intellegent fan base for the most part. Most posters in the raps forum are excited no doubt but we have fair expectations as well. I havent seen any one call this team a contender ...

most of us are just excited about having added some talent to the roster.. its not just gay, but with jonas, and ross also being a part of this team our future looks better then it did a season ago.

were not a contending team, but you know what there's finally some excitement again in raptorland and its hard to not be a little happy.. but i dont see anyone really calling this team a dynasty or even a contender for that matter. other then the op who may have just used the wrong dam word and is getting scortched for it.

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 07:19 PM
In the East your going to have to rely on your defense more than your offense. I don't see one guy who I would hang my hat on to get a stop for the Raptors. The Bulls, Pacers and the Knicks have more than one who will do the job and everyone knows the Heat can clamp down when they want to. Team defense in the post and on the perimeter has always been their problem. You can't mask a guy like Bargs on defense. He just has too many flaws like a former pacer named Murphy.

I agree getting rid of Calderon will help but you still have to be sold out as a unit and having one or two guys won't cut it IMO.

maybe jonas can develop in to that role... not easy to get a quality C, were hoping we found ours in the draft. And yes he is defensive minded and can develop in to an anchor.

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 07:22 PM
just a season ago we had guys like r.butler, anthony carter, jamal maglore, etc.... we have replaced those guys with jonas, t.ross, lowry, gay

its not just gay, but the development of derozan, addition of ross & jonas, along with the lowry and now gay pick up's that have us a little bit excited.

no ones calling this team a contender but we are finally getting some talent and its something we were starving for.

also our team is not a finished product. lets see how B.C shapes out this roster before calling it a dynasty or a failed experiment.. were all jumping the gun here. lets see how it all pans out.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 07:28 PM
I'll take LeBron, Wade & Spoelstra's word that we are on the upswing, over posters on PSD who say we aren't.

OceanSpray
02-04-2013, 07:32 PM
I'll take LeBron, Wade & Spoelstra's word that we are on the upswing, over posters on PSD who say we aren't.

Who's we? You don't play for the team.

aman_13
02-04-2013, 07:33 PM
just a season ago we had guys like r.butler, anthony carter, jamal maglore, etc.... we have replaced those guys with jonas, t.ross, lowry, gay

its not just gay, but the development of derozan, addition of ross & jonas, along with the lowry and now gay pick up's that have us a little bit excited.

no ones calling this team a contender but we are finally getting some talent and its something we were starving for.

also our team is not a finished product. lets see how B.C shapes out this roster before calling it a dynasty or a failed experiment.. were all jumping the gun here. lets see how it all pans out.

This.

I don't get why the title hasn't been changed. I know the OP hasn't asked for it to be changed but he did admit that "Dynasty" wasn't the right word to use.

aman_13
02-04-2013, 07:33 PM
.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 07:36 PM
Who's we? You don't play for the team.

No, but I am part of the fan base, which is associated with the team.

How about contributing to the discussion instead of being a douche.

todu82
02-04-2013, 07:42 PM
Would be nice to see this team get back on the right track. Be good for the Toronto sports landscape if both the Blue Jays and the Raptors get back on track.

mp3
02-04-2013, 07:42 PM
If he continues the numbers he is putting up with Toronto (I know, small sample size) he is definitely in that class.

I hope you don't mean a franchise player. Don't you think the Grizzlies would have kept him? Most teams would not take out a 1 seed when they are a 8 seed without their so called franchise player. Boarder line all star.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 07:48 PM
I hope you don't mean a franchise player. Don't you think the Grizzlies would have kept him? Most teams would not take out a 1 seed when they are a 8 seed without their so called franchise player. Boarder line all star.

I was referring to All-Star. He most certainly has the potential to be that.

The only franchise players in this league in my eyes, is LeBron and Durant, and even then, they still need a good supporting cast.

OceanSpray
02-04-2013, 07:49 PM
No, but I am part of the fan base, which is associated with the team.

How about contributing to the discussion instead of being a douche.

No, because you don't dictate how a team plays. I hate when people include themselves as a part of the team. You're a fan, you don't have an insight to how things go.

Anyways, they are going to be a good team in the future. If I were Toronto, I'd look to grab Howard. They need a big man asap.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 07:51 PM
No, because you don't dictate how a team plays. I hate when people include themselves as a part of the team. You're a fan, you don't have an insight to how things go.

Anyways, they are going to be a good team in the future. If I were Toronto, I'd look to grab Howard. They need a big man asap.

I'm sure you'll get over it one day.

OceanSpray
02-04-2013, 07:51 PM
I'm sure you'll get over it one day.

Pretty sure you're angry now because I insulted you for thinking you're part of the inside team. Haha. I laugh at you.

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 07:56 PM
No, because you don't dictate how a team plays. I hate when people include themselves as a part of the team. You're a fan, you don't have an insight to how things go.

Anyways, they are going to be a good team in the future. If I were Toronto, I'd look to grab Howard. They need a big man asap.

seems like nitpicking to me.

every one on psd refers to the team as "we" at one point or another and every one knows that when saying that the poster doesnt actually think he or she is part of the team.

also the howard thing is not realistic at all.

aman_13
02-04-2013, 07:57 PM
Pretty sure you're angry now because I insulted you for thinking you're part of the inside team. Haha. I laugh at you.

Your PSD NBA forum folks. Come join us in these insightful discussions.

nirvana235
02-04-2013, 08:02 PM
Let's be real here Raps fans, the best we can hope for is if they turn into Atlanta.

Blitzbolt
02-04-2013, 08:07 PM
I saw this back in the day to tell you guys the true.Lowry/Mayo/Gay/Warrick/C(I think it was Pau or Marc) they score ALOT of points but never actually got wins.

Memphis grizzlies Back in the day very similar^.

Blitzbolt
02-04-2013, 08:12 PM
Mayo and Warrick are trash. How is that same as gastrong and zebro?

Mayo's Rookie year was Great go look it up he average 17 points or something like that and Warrick was very much like AmirJ.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 08:12 PM
I saw this back in the day to tell you guys the true.Lowry/Mayo/Gay/Warrick/C(I think it was Pau or Marc) they score ALOT of points but never actually got wins.

Memphis grizzlies Back in the day very similar^.

Conley, Lowry, Mayo, Gay & Marc weren't the same players they are today. It took buying into a system and building chemistry to get that team where they are today.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 08:13 PM
Mayo's Rookie year was Great go look it up he average 17 points or something like that and Warrick was very much like AmirJ.

Don't bother replying to that troll.

Blitzbolt
02-04-2013, 08:14 PM
Don't bother replying to that troll.How I'm I Trolling is a fact.There is a reason why we traded them all away.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 08:16 PM
Anyways, I'm done here.

The only way to find out, is to wait and see. It won't likely be until midway next season till we truly know what kind of team they can be, and I'm sure there will be more moves to come. It isn't a finished product yet, so no point discussing this any further.

Tmath
02-04-2013, 08:17 PM
How I'm I Trolling is a fact.There is a reason why we traded them all away.

I didn't call you a troll, I was calling Spanish Fly (also known as Crooner) a troll.

rapsjaysfan88
02-04-2013, 08:26 PM
if atl trades smith i wonder if val and ross plus a future pick would get him 2 toronto.

lowry pg
dd sg
rudy sf
smith pf
amir c

that would be a scary athletic team

Mataro41
02-04-2013, 08:28 PM
if they can get rid of barg and klezia and get a PF then they can be pretty good kinda like the Pacers after they got David west

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 09:33 PM
I saw this back in the day to tell you guys the true.Lowry/Mayo/Gay/Warrick/C(I think it was Pau or Marc) they score ALOT of points but never actually got wins.

i dont see much resemblance in that line up to the raptors current line up to be honest..

Blitzbolt
02-04-2013, 09:37 PM
i dont see much resemblance in that line up to the raptors current line up to be honest..What? Gay Lowry?Young Euro Center??Mayo-Derozan.

bucketss
02-04-2013, 09:42 PM
What? Gay Lowry?Young Euro Center??Mayo-Derozan.

lol so lowry and gay haven't improved since than and rookie mayo is on derozans level now? you're comparing a team full of young bucks on a team that was in tank mode to the raptors.

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 09:53 PM
What? Gay Lowry?Young Euro Center??Mayo-Derozan.

what do mayo and derozan have in common ?

the only thing that Marc Gasol or Pau gasol have in common with Jonas Valanciunas is that they are european. seriously.. as if that even matters though ? they play nothing alike.

lowry is older and has more experience, and we also have amir, bargs, ross, fields, anderson,acy & gray ... like i said i dont see much resemblance in the line up's your comparing. we can agree to disagree

naps
02-04-2013, 10:04 PM
Dynasry? Let's just say I don't wanna say anything to upset you. I am not even sure if you have just being too optimistic (which is perfectly alright) or trolling the raptor fans.

aLau10
02-04-2013, 10:05 PM
This.

I don't get why the title hasn't been changed. I know the OP hasn't asked for it to be changed but he did admit that "Dynasty" wasn't the right word to use.

Don't know howta change.... LOL

Vancity
02-04-2013, 10:08 PM
This team will run more = better fg %
Gay is a stop gap, makes this place an exciting team to watch and maybe play for and at worst is a great expiring for when val/ross/dero all mature their game. Heck gay could net the 1st rounder that ends up with wiggins/parker.
By no means a dynasty, but a more entertaining brand. This team will be a more attractive destination than the Bosh years.
On a pure product standpoint, there will be less close losses and more wins purely based on having a finisher in gay or less attention to dero. This team will be above 500. to close the year.

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 10:15 PM
This team will run more = better fg %
Gay is a stop gap, makes this place an exciting team to watch and maybe play for and at worst is a great expiring for when val/ross/dero all mature their game. Heck gay could net the 1st rounder that ends up with wiggins/parker.
By no means a dynasty, but a more entertaining brand. This team will be a more attractive destination than the Bosh years.
On a pure product standpoint, there will be less close losses and more wins purely based on having a finisher in gay or less attention to dero. This team will be above 500. to close the year.

I agree, well said.

smith&wesson
02-04-2013, 10:17 PM
Don't know howta change.... LOL

its alright, we all understand the gist of what your trying to say.

just used the wrong word and obviously thats the first thing that stands out and every one jumps at.

mzgrizz
02-04-2013, 10:23 PM
My, how can anyone not allow the Raps' fans to have some hope for their future???

Raye
02-04-2013, 10:46 PM
Raptor fans deserve a good team and if they can sneak into the playoffs they'd be scary.

Derick713
02-04-2013, 11:17 PM
I will say that the Raptors have good pieces in place. Only trouble is they lost their 1st Round Pick this year because of Kyle Lowry deal. DeMar DeRozan and Rudy Gay are good franchise cornerstones. Valunciunas is a good center.

PG- Kyle Lowry/John Lucas/
SG- DeMar DeRozan/Terrence Ross/
SF- Rudy Gay/Linas Klezia/
PF- ?
SC- Jonas Valanciunas

ThuglifeJ
02-05-2013, 12:30 AM
It has been one game..

I'm happyISH, but I don't half the fans realize the contract situation Raps are in now..not good

I'm predicting a typical first round exit Raps the next few years then hopefully something can happen after that.


Dynasty is a no no tho. Vince and Tmac were supposed to be the dynasty... A holes.

Sadds The Gr8
02-05-2013, 01:05 AM
The OP disgraced my fanbase

b@llhog24
02-05-2013, 01:06 AM
Yes?

Hi :)

Sactown
02-05-2013, 01:11 AM
Definitely a more exciting brand of basketball. Very athletic big wings, I don't know if it'll translate to wins.. Hard to play when 2 perimeter players are poor 3pt shooters (28%, 31%)

Vancity
02-05-2013, 06:16 AM
Definitely a more exciting brand of basketball. Very athletic big wings, I don't know if it'll translate to wins.. Hard to play when 2 perimeter players are poor 3pt shooters (28%, 31%)

Good thing, they will be used to slash and kickout to Bargnani. Dero/Rudy gay cuts and dishes out to eachother defense collapses, big men help out, Bargs shoots and if he misses you have good offensive rebounding guards crashing and Val who knows his role is to clean up.


Sidepoint: Would Thunder have use for Bargnani and if so what would they offer?
I was thinking Maynor,Perk and the thunder 1st/Perry jones for Bargnani, Anderson, If perry inclu. Gray goes back.

Perks been inefficient but could teach Val a bit and provide interior presence, Thabeets taking over. Raps get a backup pg. and a 1st for this year in a deep draft (draft kabongo, trey burke, oladipo, noguiera)
Raps have Amir,Val,Perkins and small ball options.


Thunder get a Bargs, scorer to stretch the floor and good 2nd scoring unit big. Retain defensive presence in Thabeet and have Orton waiting in wings. Perkins is redundant. Alan Anderson adds scoring punch

NoahH
02-05-2013, 05:31 PM
With this roster the Raptors will perennially be average. Not good enough to contend and not bad enough to rebuild.

Tmath
02-05-2013, 05:50 PM
Definitely a more exciting brand of basketball. Very athletic big wings, I don't know if it'll translate to wins.. Hard to play when 2 perimeter players are poor 3pt shooters (28%, 31%)


Rudy Gay's role in Memphis played a big factor to why his percentages were so low.

55% of his FGAs in Memphis happened in the first 15 seconds of the shot clock.
20% of his FGAs in Memphis happened in the last 4 seconds of the shot clock.
45% of his FGAs happened in the final 9 seconds of the shot clock.

I expect his numbers to go up.

Tmath
02-05-2013, 05:53 PM
With this roster the Raptors will perennially be average. Not good enough to contend and not bad enough to rebuild.

The roster is still incomplete, not a finished product yet.

All the core players are 26 and younger, lots of time to improve.

New owners are also willing to dip into the luxury for the right deal, which allows us more options to improve.

aLau10
02-05-2013, 08:13 PM
its alright, we all understand the gist of what your trying to say.

just used the wrong word and obviously thats the first thing that stands out and every one jumps at.

Thanks bud. But the Raps definitely got 10x more interesting to watch. :D I'm not hyped at all about this team getting the chip, but just been so long since they've reach the playoffs that a taste of the playoffs will satisfy me. :jumpy:

PatriotsGirl
02-05-2013, 08:52 PM
Wow, uh, dynasty?

I like Rudy Gay and all but let's be serious.

Keep3HEATSOnMe
02-05-2013, 11:59 PM
I like the new Raps I think they will be a playoff team next season maybe sneak for 8th this season ;)

smith&wesson
02-06-2013, 03:15 AM
Wow, uh, dynasty?

I like Rudy Gay and all but let's be serious.

No were a dinosty

LeperMessiah
02-06-2013, 11:05 AM
No were a dinosty

Lmao well played.

LeperMessiah
02-06-2013, 11:06 AM
I like the new Raps I think they will be a playoff team next season maybe sneak for 8th this season ;)

All depends on bynum.

Skip A. Smith
02-06-2013, 11:07 AM
You can't be a dynasty when you have inefficient players and overpaid player in Fields who sucks!

miller74
02-06-2013, 11:25 AM
Dynasty lol thats a good one

Seriously though they seem to be heading in the right direction. What they can get back for bargnani could help that. Ross, Jonus, and Gay is a descent start.

Wonder bargnani and derozan could get them? i think they need a solid #4, and a reliable back up PG