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View Full Version : Re: Is Kyrie Irving already at MVP Derrick Rose level?



metsfan4ever
02-02-2013, 08:25 PM
Before the Bulls fans rage, lets just get the fallacy that Rose carried the Bulls out of the way. He had an impact, but it wasn't as huge as people made it out to be as the Bulls have remained top 3 even without Rose's helpThat is not to say Rose isn't a great player, he provided the scoring output that the Bulls needed to make it far in the playoffs.That being said, currently, Kyrie is scoring just as much as Rose was on less shot attempts, with an efficiency higher than Rose ever had in his career. (24 ppg, 47%FG, 40%3PT, 84%FT)His defense is currently on par with Rose's after his first two yearsHe is averaging slightly less assists but that is a result of far worse teammatesWon't be long until Kyrie > Rose in all facets of the game

b@llhog24
02-02-2013, 08:31 PM
Only PG i think that Kyrie can't surpass is Cp3. That being said, no Kyrie is not good as Rose was in his MVP season.

Minimal
02-02-2013, 08:34 PM
He is near, but not there yet. I think he will surpass Rose in near future.

dee279
02-02-2013, 08:38 PM
No, no, and no

SeoulBeatz
02-02-2013, 08:44 PM
kyrie aint there yet. let's not talk blasphemy now.

Guppyfighter
02-02-2013, 08:47 PM
He needs to learn defense first.

Kyben36
02-02-2013, 09:01 PM
I dont think so. but he needs alot more tallent around him to know

OceanSpray
02-02-2013, 09:01 PM
Not yet but give him two years and he'll be a top 5 player imo.

Corey
02-02-2013, 09:01 PM
Paul is the only point guard I'd take ahead of Kyrie right now.

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Hawkeye15
02-02-2013, 09:30 PM
Defensively, he is way behind Rose right now, but Rose also had Thibs, so I am not sure how to answer this honestly. But going forward, I am not sure if I would take a PG ahead of Irving.

Alayla
02-02-2013, 09:36 PM
No

Hawkeye15
02-02-2013, 09:37 PM
btw, Irving didn't walk into Rose's situation, so team success should not even be touched here. The Bulls were the up and coming team the year prior to underachieving big time, and skipping 12 teams to get the #1 pick. The Cavs were flat out dirt.

JEDean89
02-02-2013, 09:50 PM
btw, Irving didn't walk into Rose's situation, so team success should not even be touched here. The Bulls were the up and coming team the year prior to underachieving big time, and skipping 12 teams to get the #1 pick. The Cavs were flat out dirt.

yep and not to mention that kyrie got drafted 1 year after the decision. kyrie had nothing around him with a team in full rebuild mode and he still produces. give him joakim noah, boozer and deng and he is a different player. i think the cavs messed up their drafting, they should have drafted a big ol player like valanciunas or drummond when they had the chance. still i think thompson and waiters are good players just not the top 5 picks they were drafted as. rose also is in the bigger market and led his team to one an incredible record at age 24. kyrie has a year or 2 more to really get to where rose was.

da ThRONe
02-02-2013, 09:54 PM
Kyrie is really close but I agree with the masses he's not there yet.

Hawkeye15
02-02-2013, 10:00 PM
yep and not to mention that kyrie got drafted 1 year after the decision. kyrie had nothing around him with a team in full rebuild mode and he still produces. give him joakim noah, boozer and deng and he is a different player. i think the cavs messed up their drafting, they should have drafted a big ol player like valanciunas or drummond when they had the chance. still i think thompson and waiters are good players just not the top 5 picks they were drafted as. rose also is in the bigger market and led his team to one an incredible record at age 24. kyrie has a year or 2 more to really get to where rose was.

The Cavs are not well run, this is obvious. Being gifted the #1 pick in two drafts were is was a huge "duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh", is not good management. I find it hard to believe they will be able to give Irving a lot of help.

ManRam
02-02-2013, 10:16 PM
He's not having as good of a season as Rose's MVP year...but it isn't terribly far behind. He'll get there eventually however.

ClevelandSpider
02-02-2013, 10:25 PM
Rose won the MVP in his 3rd season at 23, Kyrie is still only 20 years old...I think Irving gets an MVP next 3 years and will surpass Rose soon, but at this point Rose has the experience...but you have to ask what kind of Rose will we get after tearing his ACL, not everyone can come back like AP...will he be the Derrick of old? I sure hope so, though I doubt he'll be as explosive for some time

Hawkeye15
02-02-2013, 10:45 PM
Rose won the MVP in his 3rd season at 23, Kyrie is still only 20 years old...I think Irving gets an MVP next 3 years and will surpass Rose soon, but at this point Rose has the experience...but you have to ask what kind of Rose will we get after tearing his ACL, not everyone can come back like AP...will he be the Derrick of old? I sure hope so, though I doubt he'll be as explosive for some time

I have been watching Rubio, and he is the typical deal. Came back 7 weeks ago, and is just now looking like the Rubio of old.

Yunqn
02-02-2013, 10:58 PM
.

seikou8
02-02-2013, 11:02 PM
too good he surpass him soon

LAKobeBryant
02-02-2013, 11:03 PM
Kyrie as a scoring pg can be better than Westbrook or at least close to it already. But i don't see Kyrie being a PG that can impact the game other than scoring like CP3, and R-Rose can do.

seikou8
02-02-2013, 11:09 PM
Kyrie as a scoring pg can be better than Westbrook or at least close to it already. But i don't see Kyrie being a PG that can impact the game other than scoring like CP3, and R-Rose can do.

whatt does rose do well other than scoring

RenegadeRiot36
02-02-2013, 11:14 PM
13 points in 2:32 in the 4th quarter says a lot about why he will be the best point guard in the league.

Becks2307
02-02-2013, 11:15 PM
Imagine if OKC had Kyrie!

seikou8
02-02-2013, 11:19 PM
13 points in 2:32 in the 4th quarter says a lot about why he will be the best point guard in the league.

cp3 say hi

Dankster
02-02-2013, 11:28 PM
He's a very complete PG at such a young age, especially factoring in his lack of college/NBA experience up to this point.

I remember watching this kid back in HS when he played for St Patrick's, I never envisioned him being THIS good.

quade36
02-02-2013, 11:29 PM
This is kind of funny. I remember two years ago people said all the Bulls had was Rose and without him they were nothing. Now they are saying that he was surrounded by a good team and didn't deserve his popularity.

Why is there always a competition. They are both good leave it at that. Trolling around trying to anger other fans is just immature. And this thread is definitely a troll thread saying as it start "Before the Bulls fans rage, lets just get the fallacy that Rose carried the Bulls out of the way."

This person was probably one of those two years ago that said the Bulls are nothing without Rose.

nitric
02-02-2013, 11:40 PM
Since Rose hasn't played this entire season people are forgetting the player Rose is. Soon..

Stuckey#3
02-02-2013, 11:48 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
This is one of the dumbest threads ever.

Can we start a PSD wall of shame forum?

Stuckey#3
02-02-2013, 11:51 PM
The bulls have a great coach. And have a great team.
They also have one of the top three players in the league.

I'm not even a bulls fan... **** in the 90s I hated the Bulls.
But they will eat the heat Knicks and anyone else in contention once Drose is healthy.

Stupid thread.

dreday
02-02-2013, 11:52 PM
[I'm not even sure that Irving is a featured player on a top team in the league. To say that he is better than Rose is crazy. I think he does somethings well and is more skilled in some areas then Rose was and maybe is but that does not make him better. I think the thing that put Rose in a different league then all PGs is his athleticism. The fact is you can become a better shooter and floor leader but athleticism you can't teach.

Dankster
02-02-2013, 11:56 PM
The bulls have a great coach. And have a great team.
They also have one of the top three players in the league.

I'm not even a bulls fan... **** in the 90s I hated the Bulls.
But they will eat the heat Knicks and anyone else in contention once Drose is healthy.

Stupid thread.

That's all hypothetical. If I remember correctly, the Bulls had a very high winning percentage with Rose injured last year and are doing well again this year. They're just a very good and complete team in general, well coached and play elite level defense. But to think they'll "eat the Heat," is a bit hyperbolic.

ManRam
02-02-2013, 11:59 PM
Kyrie as a scoring pg can be better than Westbrook or at least close to it already. But i don't see Kyrie being a PG that can impact the game other than scoring like CP3, and R-Rose can do.

Rose is far from a "non-scoring" PG.

And Kyrie has very little around him. His passing numbers certainly will be fine.


And "scoring PGs" aren't a bad thing.

ManRam
02-03-2013, 12:00 AM
The bulls have a great coach. And have a great team.
They also have one of the top three players in the league.

I'm not even a bulls fan... **** in the 90s I hated the Bulls.
But they will eat the heat Knicks and anyone else in contention once Drose is healthy.

Stupid thread.

Who's the top 3 player on their team?

Stuckey#3
02-03-2013, 12:02 AM
Who's the top 3 player on their team?

Top 3:

1 KD
2 DROSE (when healthy)
3a CP3
3b LBJ

b@llhog24
02-03-2013, 12:04 AM
Come to think of it, maybe Kyrie would be putting up awesome efficiency numbers if he had ANY type of talent around him. But as is, I'd still take Rose, Kyrie is somewhat of a matador.

ManRam
02-03-2013, 12:08 AM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
This is one of the dumbest threads ever.

Can we start a PSD wall of shame forum?

Kyrie: 23.7p/5.5a/3.6r, 46.9%/40.7%/84.5% shooting, 22.3 PER
Derrick: 25.0p/7.7a/3.4r, 44.5%/33.2%/85.8% shooting, 23.5 PER

He certainly hasn't been as good...but he's been pretty darn close.

ManRam
02-03-2013, 12:09 AM
Top 3:

1 KD
2 DROSE (when healthy)
3a CP3
3b LBJ

:laugh:

Get the **** out of here :laugh2:

seikou8
02-03-2013, 12:13 AM
Top 3:

1 KD
2 DROSE (when healthy)
3a CP3
3b LBJ

this might be the worst post in psd history thanks for the laugh:laugh:

eibbor
02-03-2013, 12:18 AM
Well, since Rose was handed an MVP he didn't deserve... You could almost say yes... But.. No, He isn't on the level Rose was on when Rose wasn't the actual MVP.

Quinnsanity
02-03-2013, 12:23 AM
Kyrie is the second best PG in the league, a top 10 player, and 3rd in trade value (behind only Bron and Durant). Dwight's back, Rose's knee, CP3's knee, Kobe's age, Love's lack of defense and Westbrook's volatility put Kyrie ahead of them in that regard.

Quinnsanity
02-03-2013, 12:24 AM
Top 3:

1 KD
2 DROSE (when healthy)
3a CP3
3b LBJ

Did you get the license plate number of the truck that hit you as you wrote that post?

ClevelandSpider
02-03-2013, 12:24 AM
this might be the worst post in psd history thanks for the laugh:laugh:

Just look at his name, he's a Pistons fan, who are a joke and will be a joke for the forseeable future, their go-to thing is trolling the Cavs and LeBron because they're still salty about that Game 5 2007 ECF...I have it like this:

1. LBJ
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Melo (play this season has elevated his ranking from seasons past)
5. Rose (at 100%)
6. Kobe

Dade County
02-03-2013, 12:24 AM
No

Rose was the better player... If we are talking about right now then of course Kyrie is better because of rose injury.

ManRam
02-03-2013, 12:26 AM
Kyrie is the second best PG in the league, a top 10 player, and 3rd in trade value (behind only Bron and Durant). Dwight's back, Rose's knee, CP3's knee, Kobe's age, Love's lack of defense and Westbrook's volatility put Kyrie ahead of them in that regard.

I'd agree with this.

I still think LeBron only left Cleveland so that Cleveland could actually get some nice young talent there and then he could run back and actually play with great players in Cleveland. It's genius really!

Irving is a stud...and I don't think they'd trade him for anyone, besides those two guys.

ClevelandSpider
02-03-2013, 12:26 AM
Kyrie is the second best PG in the league, a top 10 player, and 3rd in trade value (behind only Bron and Durant). Dwight's back, Rose's knee, CP3's knee, Kobe's age, Love's lack of defense and Westbrook's volatility put Kyrie ahead of them in that regard.

I agree, the only untouchables in the league today are LBJ, Durant and Kyrie...obviously Kyrie doesn't have the time in the league or accomplishments as the other two, but his ceiling is so high and at only 20 years old, there's no telling what he'll become, its just scary...which is great for Cavs fans like me :)

seikou8
02-03-2013, 12:29 AM
Just look at his name, he's a Pistons fan, who are a joke and will be a joke for the forseeable future, their go-to thing is trolling the Cavs and LeBron because they're still salty about that Game 5 2007 ECF...I have it like this:

1. LBJ
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Melo (play this season has elevated his ranking from seasons past)
5. Rose (at 100%)
6. Kobe

good list nice to see a cavs fan i would kobe over rose for now

PrettyBoyJ
02-03-2013, 12:55 AM
I think Kyrie On the Bulls would have the same productivity as Rose.

Money_23
02-03-2013, 01:26 AM
Kyrie is the future.

Money_23
02-03-2013, 01:26 AM
I'd agree with this.

I still think LeBron only left Cleveland so that Cleveland could actually get some nice young talent there and then he could run back and actually play with great players in Cleveland. It's genius really!

Irving is a stud...and I don't think they'd trade him for anyone, besides those two guys.

lmao

Baller1
02-03-2013, 01:31 AM
Top 3:

1 KD
2 DROSE (when healthy)
3a CP3
3b LBJ

Ohhhhhh lord have mercy. :laugh2: :laugh2:

Crackadalic
02-03-2013, 01:37 AM
I always thought his game was cp3 esque and I was close to right about it. Way I see it between kyrie n drose is I can see kyrie as a much better efficient offensive player where drose is a volume shooter but is such a threat in when he gets to the rim. Both scoring pg but kyrie to me can be a better passer

b@llhog24
02-03-2013, 01:47 AM
Kyrie is the second best PG in the league, a top 10 player, and 3rd in trade value (behind only Bron and Durant). Dwight's back, Rose's knee, CP3's knee, Kobe's age, Love's lack of defense and Westbrook's volatility put Kyrie ahead of them in that regard.

Harden is there too.

Clocian
02-03-2013, 02:05 AM
Since Rose hasn't played this entire season people are forgetting the player Rose is. Soon..

indeed....indeed

ChI_ShIzzLe
02-03-2013, 02:33 AM
Lol..seems like everyone forgot who D-Rose is. It's ok, in 2 months when he's back to his old self and tearing every PG in the league to shreds, they'll come back to this thread and edit their posts.

D-Leethal
02-03-2013, 02:41 AM
Kyrie is/will be better than Rose. Has a better skillset and is the smarter player. Kyrie has very big things ahead in his career. Cleveland needs to find him legit support or they are going to lose two of the best players of this era.

TopsyTurvy
02-03-2013, 02:43 AM
The only thing I like about Irving over Rose is a more consistent jumper. :shrug:

ThaDubs
02-03-2013, 02:47 AM
I think Kyrie will get there.

John Walls Era
02-03-2013, 02:50 AM
Not even close. Derrick Rose was one of my fave player to watch during the 07 NCAA season where he completely took over. He was already a winning player coming out of college (came close). His team has never failed as poorly as the Cavs with Kyrie. Athletically Rose is/was a different beast.

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-03-2013, 02:50 AM
The bulls have a great coach. And have a great team.
They also have one of the top three players in the league.

I'm not even a bulls fan... **** in the 90s I hated the Bulls.
But they will eat the heat Knicks and anyone else in contention once Drose is healthy.

Stupid thread.

you dont have to be a bulls fan to be delusional.

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-03-2013, 02:51 AM
That's all hypothetical. If I remember correctly, the Bulls had a very high winning percentage with Rose injured last year and are doing well again this year. They're just a very good and complete team in general, well coached and play elite level defense. But to think they'll "eat the Heat," is a bit hyperbolic.

dude dont entertain him, hes a lebron hater. poor guy is mad. and forever angry

Clocian
02-03-2013, 02:51 AM
Kyrie is/will be better than Rose. Has a better skillset and is the smarter player. Kyrie has very big things ahead in his career. Cleveland needs to find him legit support or they are going to lose two of the best players of this era.

can said player take his team to the 8th seed in the east at the very least before we start claiming him better than the mvp. rose has never missed the playoffs since coming into the league. man people are funny. :laugh:.

Kyrie is a good shooter. Give him that, but that's where it stops. defense, passing, athletic, getting to the basket etc all goes to rose

ThaDubs
02-03-2013, 02:52 AM
Lol..seems like everyone forgot who D-Rose is. It's ok, in 2 months when he's back to his old self and tearing every PG in the league to shreds, they'll come back to this thread and edit their posts.

I have to kind of agree with this...
A healthy Rose is absurdly good. Basically a smart Westbrook with a more consistent jumper and better passing. Plus, if you can say that the **** talent that Kyrie is surrounded by affects his stats, you can say that Rose playing with more talent around him means he doesn't score as much. I still think healthy Rose is second best PG after CP3. Kyrie is probably 3 or 4, followed by Steph, Jrue, etc.

ThaDubs
02-03-2013, 02:54 AM
Top 3:

1 KD
2 DROSE (when healthy)
3a CP3
3b LBJ

Go see a doctor.

Mayweather&NYK
02-03-2013, 02:57 AM
in another year or 2 Kyrie will be the best GUARD in basketball, period... yes he's THAT good....

naps
02-03-2013, 03:00 AM
No but it's close. Kyrie has terrible teammates and he doesn't have Thibs to win him matches with stiffing defense. Oh and Rose being in a much bigger and brighter market helped with his hype too. Imagine Kyrie playing like this in NY, Chi, or LA :drool: I think in a few years Kyrie is going to really challenge CP3 for that #1 PG spot. That says a lot about the kids potential. He's been on right track so far. We will see what happens in a few years. Hope he doesn't have the bad luck of Rose or Rondo.

Stuckey#3
02-03-2013, 03:03 AM
Just look at his name, he's a Pistons fan, who are a joke and will be a joke for the forseeable future, their go-to thing is trolling the Cavs and LeBron because they're still salty about that Game 5 2007 ECF...I have it like this:

1. LBJ
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Melo (play this season has elevated his ranking from seasons past)
5. Rose (at 100%)
6. Kobe

And who kicked the ***** out of the cavs on Friday... Listen I'm sorry your queen left you for south beach. But Kyrie will never win MVP in this league.

Stuckey#3
02-03-2013, 03:05 AM
And yes I am a Detoit fan and I stick by my team. All you bandwagon MIA and NYK fans are ****ing pathetic. A lot of people forgot about how dominant Drose was before the injury. He will remind you without HGH or favors from he league office.

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-03-2013, 03:07 AM
And yes I am a Detoit fan and I stick by my team. All you bandwagon MIA and NYK fans are ****ing pathetic.

k.

naps
02-03-2013, 03:11 AM
The bulls have a great coach. And have a great team.
They also have one of the top three players in the league.

I'm not even a bulls fan... **** in the 90s I hated the Bulls.
But they will eat the heat Knicks and anyone else in contention once Drose is healthy.

Stupid thread.


Top 3:

1 KD
2 DROSE (when healthy)
3a CP3
3b LBJ


You alright man? Take it easy there. Don't sniff it too frequently.

D-Leethal
02-03-2013, 03:13 AM
can said player take his team to the 8th seed in the east at the very least before we start claiming him better than the mvp. rose has never missed the playoffs since coming into the league. man people are funny. :laugh:.

Kyrie is a good shooter. Give him that, but that's where it stops. defense, passing, athletic, getting to the basket etc all goes to rose

Thats why I said /will be. Its fair to say hes gotta lead his team somewhere before being annointed that. I feel hes already a better player in a worse situation, but I hear where your coming from.

As for defense, passing, athletic, getting to the basket, I'm not sure there is enough of a gap in any of those skills to even worth mentioning it. Rose is not a good defender. While he gets more assists I'm not sure Rose is much more of a talented passer, Rose is more athletic but Kyrie is also a superb athlete and can get to the rim whenever he wants to. I think his shooting touch is the deal breaker. Kyrie still has to earn it but I think hes the better player and will prove it soon enough.

Clocian
02-03-2013, 03:22 AM
Thats why I said /will be. Its fair to say hes gotta lead his team somewhere before being annointed that. I feel hes already a better player in a worse situation, but I hear where your coming from.

As for defense, passing, athletic, getting to the basket, I'm not sure there is enough of a gap in any of those skills to even worth mentioning it. Rose is not a good defender. While he gets more assists I'm not sure Rose is much more of a talented passer, Rose is more athletic but Kyrie is also a superb athlete and can get to the rim whenever he wants to. I think his shooting touch is the deal breaker. Kyrie still has to earn it but I think hes the better player and will prove it soon enough.

the myth that drose is not a good defender continues...

Cool007
02-03-2013, 03:39 AM
THis thread shows how underrated D-Rose is and has been.

Also shows the hype and how overrating has begun of Kyrie, just then there will be more people bashing him once he continues leading his team to bottom 5 record year after year.

RipCity32
02-03-2013, 03:57 AM
He might be better than Rose now seeing as we don't know what Rose will be like.I think D.Roses Soring won't ever be as high as it was.

CavsYanksDuke
02-03-2013, 03:58 AM
can said player take his team to the 8th seed in the east at the very least before we start claiming him better than the mvp. rose has never missed the playoffs since coming into the league. man people are funny. :laugh:.

Kyrie is a good shooter. Give him that, but that's where it stops. defense, passing, athletic, getting to the basket etc all goes to rose

Wow. You realize that the Bulls had a nearly zero percent chance to win Rose, right? Because they had a good team on the verge of making the playoffs already. By stating Rose is better than Kyrie because of playoff appearances is like saying Oscar Robinson did nothing his entire career.

3ballbomber
02-03-2013, 03:58 AM
love the kid but let's not get too carried away now.

iFYouSeekAmy
02-03-2013, 04:00 AM
Before the Bulls fans rage, lets just get the fallacy that Rose carried the Bulls out of the way. He had an impact, but it wasn't as huge as people made it out to be as the Bulls have remained top 3 even without Rose's helpThat is not to say Rose isn't a great player, he provided the scoring output that the Bulls needed to make it far in the playoffs.That being said, currently, Kyrie is scoring just as much as Rose was on less shot attempts, with an efficiency higher than Rose ever had in his career. (24 ppg, 47%FG, 40%3PT, 84%FT)His defense is currently on par with Rose's after his first two yearsHe is averaging slightly less assists but that is a result of far worse teammatesWon't be long until Kyrie > Rose in all facets of the game

WTF. MF4E got his GED already? no offense, but this is pretty well written considering your history of poorly written posts

ThaDubs
02-03-2013, 05:07 AM
And who kicked the ***** out of the cavs on Friday... Listen I'm sorry your queen left you for south beach. But Kyrie will never win MVP in this league.

Nobody cares about regular season (but going by your standards, the Cavs beat the Thunder today and are therefore better). They're younger than the Piss tons and are a playoff team come 2015-2016 if Kyrie stays around and is surrounded by some actual talent.

Kyrie will never win MVP? Going out on a limb there, the kids averaging 24 points per game at 20 years of age. 6th youngest all-star in NBA history. Saying that he has no chance to win MVP ever is blatant stupidity, the potential is practically bursting out of this kid.

Bullsfan22
02-03-2013, 05:19 AM
I see a lot "No but he's on his way" as if it's set in stone that a 24 year old young man won't get any better at basketball. We'll see what happens because according this forum John Wall,Brandon Jennings and Tyreke Evans would all be better by now. Carry on discrediting all of Derrick Rose's accomplishments because he got drafted by a decent team. Since we are tossing out projects as if they are facts "I believe the MVP Rose would make that team full of so called scrubs a playoff team"

*Waits for someone to scream "Homer Bulls fan!!!"

Baller1
02-03-2013, 05:28 AM
I see a lot "No but he's on his way" as if it's set in stone that a 24 year old young man won't get any better at basketball. We'll see what happens because according this forum John Wall,Brandon Jennings and Tyreke Evans would all be better by now. Carry on discrediting all of Derrick Rose's accomplishments because he got drafted by a decent team. Since we are tossing out projects as if they are facts "I believe the MVP Rose would make that team full of so called scrubs a playoff team"

*Waits for someone to scream "Homer Bulls fan!!!"

If you can't see the UNLIMITED talent/potential of Kyrie, then I don't know what to tell you.

Couple that with Rose's knee injury and it's not farcetched in the slightest to think Kyrie becomes a better player within the next year or two.

SugeKnight
02-03-2013, 05:33 AM
Id take 2011 Rose over 2013 Irving every time. :shrug:

Bullsfan22
02-03-2013, 05:33 AM
If you can't see the UNLIMITED talent/potential of Kyrie, then I don't know what to tell you.

Couple that with Rose's knee injury and it's not farcetched in the slightest to think Kyrie becomes a better player within the next year or two.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here? I understand how good Kyrie can be.

He very well could become better, never disputed that either. I stand by my opinion of saying Rose can also get better at his age (if healthy of course)

Everything that Rose has accomplished is somehow discredited in this thread. When he gets labeled a winner it's because he got drafted by an up and coming team. When he get labeled a better passer it's because he has better teammates. When his defensive statistics show he's a solid defender it's because of thibs system. I guess Tim Duncan shouldn't be considered better than a peer of his because he got drafted by a decent organization. Whose to say that Rose during his mvp year wouldn't be able lead Kyrie's team to at least sniff a playoff push?

metsfan4ever
02-03-2013, 10:23 AM
Kyrie is already better now than Rose ever was, and will be.Kyrie will go on to have a long, long illustrious career bcuz he is actually a smart and skilled player, while Rose a fizzle out in his early 30's being how he gets by on pure athleticism...he's the next AI, but even worse since he cant even get himself to the line...sad.

DLeeicious
02-03-2013, 10:57 AM
Didn't read thread but I assume it's been mentioned that the Bulls have had success without Rose. For that crowd check out the enormous drop off this season (ignoring record):

This year: efficiency differential = +3.2
Last season: differential = +9.2
2 seasons ago differential (when everyone besides rose was hurt) = +8.1

That is an enormous drop off and should silence any "they are having success without him" arguments. They are significantly worse this season without him.

MonroeFAN
02-03-2013, 11:07 AM
MVP derrick rose was a complete hoax, so sure.

ClevelandSpider
02-03-2013, 11:12 AM
And who kicked the ***** out of the cavs on Friday... Listen I'm sorry your queen left you for south beach. But Kyrie will never win MVP in this league.

And that win means exactly what? Wow your bad team beat my bad team, big deal, we beat arguably the best team in the NBA last night all because of Kyrie, 13 pts in the final 2:52 including the dagger 3 over Westbrook to clinch it, gee that sounds like a certain game 5 performance of someone I used to know, not on the same level but reminiscent for sure...looks like someone's feelings were hurt tho and I'm sorry for that, I know the wounds LeBron left haven't fully healed yet but they will, give it another 7 or 8 years, by that time the Pistons might be an 8 seed in the playoffs...

MonroeFAN
02-03-2013, 11:18 AM
lol

sharqstealth
02-03-2013, 11:27 AM
Not now, but he'll be better than Drose in the future.

nycericanguy
02-03-2013, 11:42 AM
Kyrie is definitely ahead of Rose right now. His first 2 seasons have flat out been much better than Rose's first 2 seasons, not to mention Irving is younger... Rose at 20 was still in college.

I think last year and this year have shown that Thibs was and is a huge reason for CHI's success. CHI has Kirk freakin Hinrich starting at PG and they are still on pace for 50 wins... this despite not having a single player having what I would call a great season. They win because of their defense... period.

Rose is obviously a great player and will make them even better, but he's not carrying that team as we all thought.

b@llhog24
02-03-2013, 11:43 AM
The only thing I like about Irving over Rose is a more consistent jumper. :shrug:

Which is a pretty good skill-set to have over the other. Spacing is one of the most important intangible effects.


Not even close. Derrick Rose was one of my fave player to watch during the 07 NCAA season where he completely took over. He was already a winning player coming out of college (came close).

Who's talking about college? :confused:


His team has never failed as poorly as the Cavs with Kyrie. Athletically Rose is/was a different beast.

Skill wise, Kyrie is a totally different beast.


can said player take his team to the 8th seed in the east at the very least before we start claiming him better than the mvp. rose has never missed the playoffs since coming into the league. man people are funny. :laugh:.

After Rose and Kyrie, make a combined list of the 10 best players that each of them have played with. The only Cavalier near your list would be an often injured Varejao.


Kyrie is a good shooter. Give him that, but that's where it stops. defense, passing, athletic, getting to the basket etc all goes to rose

Rose is superior defensively, and passing is a wash to me. But explain why if Rose is such a great finisher that he's never posted a higher at the rim % than Kyrie?


I have to kind of agree with this...
A healthy Rose is absurdly good. Basically a smart Westbrook with a more consistent jumper and better passing. Plus, if you can say that the **** talent that Kyrie is surrounded by affects his stats, you can say that Rose playing with more talent around him means he doesn't score as much. I still think healthy Rose is second best PG after CP3. Kyrie is probably 3 or 4, followed by Steph, Jrue, etc.

Playing with more talent is generally supposed to make you more efficient. If Rose played on the Cavs his efficiency couldn't touch Kyrie's own.


in another year or 2 Kyrie will be the best GUARD in basketball, period... yes he's THAT good....

Think he'll be better than Harden? Just curious.


No but it's close. Kyrie has terrible teammates and he doesn't have Thibs to win him matches with stiffing defense. Oh and Rose being in a much bigger and brighter market helped with his hype too. Imagine Kyrie playing like this in NY, Chi, or LA :drool: I think in a few years Kyrie is going to really challenge CP3 for that #1 PG spot. That says a lot about the kids potential. He's been on right track so far. We will see what happens in a few years. Hope he doesn't have the bad luck of Rose or Rondo.

Yea, the quality of his first two years ***** on Rose's own BY FAR, Cp3 and him are basically neck and neck though.


WTF. MF4E got his GED already? no offense, but this is pretty well written considering your history of poorly written posts

:laugh2:

quade36
02-03-2013, 11:43 AM
[QUOTE=metsfan4ever;25291732]Kyrie is already better now than Rose ever was, and will be.Kyrie will go on to have a long, long illustrious career bcuz he is actually a smart and skilled player, while Rose a fizzle out in his early 30's being how he gets by on pure athleticism...he's the next AI, but even worse since he cant even get himself to the line...sad.[/]

your right bulls should just amnesty rose now. Can we close this ridiculous troll thread already. Obviously people are here to ruffle feathers and don't really want to have intelligent conversations. Exhibit A ^

ThaDubs
02-03-2013, 02:04 PM
Playing with more talent is generally supposed to make you more efficient. If Rose played on the Cavs his efficiency couldn't touch Kyrie's own.

I agree with that. It's just that somebody said that Kyrie's assist numbers would be better if he had different teammates, so I was saying that you could say D Rose having such good teammates that can score the basketball with relative ease lowers his scoring. (not that I really thought it was true).

TheNumber37
02-03-2013, 02:24 PM
Kyrie is pretty damn good, he'll pass him in a couple of years and in like 6 or 7 years he'll be the best around.

vdv36
02-03-2013, 02:43 PM
:puke:

Meaze_Gibson
02-03-2013, 02:49 PM
Nah He's not better than Rose. Rose is a better finisher, a better passer, and a better defender. Though both tend to kill the other pgs, I've seen Rose get the best of Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Wade, Rondo, and all the other top guards MULTIPLE times. Now both are assassins offensively, Rose's man to man defense is much better and the fact that he's proven in the playoffs helps me go Rose. Will be interesting to see the next couple of years.

DoMeFavors
02-03-2013, 03:13 PM
Rose never missed the playoffs,Irving doesnt get wins

se247042
02-03-2013, 03:19 PM
Think he'll be better than Harden? Just curious.

Just curious, you actually think James Harden is a top guard in the NBA? lol

BULLSFAN0810
02-03-2013, 03:26 PM
As i once stated ...check my threads ...Irving will surpass cp3 ...not as good ...yet...as far as rose ...rose is top 5 ..maybe top 1

Hawkeye15
02-03-2013, 03:34 PM
Rose never missed the playoffs,Irving doesnt get wins

go back to my first page post. Team success shouldn't even be a remote factor here. Cleveland wasn't an up and coming team that underachieved, missed the playoffs, and skipped 12 teams to land Irving. The Bulls were...

Hawkeye15
02-03-2013, 03:38 PM
Just curious, you actually think James Harden is a top guard in the NBA? lol

you don't think Harden is a top guard in the game?

b@llhog24
02-03-2013, 03:42 PM
Just curious, you actually think James Harden is a top guard in the NBA? lol

I know.

b@llhog24
02-03-2013, 03:44 PM
I agree with that. It's just that somebody said that Kyrie's assist numbers would be better if he had different teammates, so I was saying that you could say D Rose having such good teammates that can score the basketball with relative ease lowers his scoring. (not that I really thought it was true).

His USG is still pretty high, he call his number just as much as any other high volume star.

b@llhog24
02-03-2013, 03:44 PM
Rose never missed the playoffs,Irving doesnt get wins

Guess he's better than Dwill too.

RenegadeRiot36
02-03-2013, 03:51 PM
You guys honestly are moronic if you are comparing the Bulls and Cavs wins. Last time i checked, Chicago is a 3 seed WITHOUT ROSE. The Cavs still essentially have mediocre talent.

And another problem you guys have is never seeing Kyrie play. Rose is in a huge market and was on national tv countless times. Kyrie Irving still hasnt been in a nationally televised game to this date not counting the rising stars game last time. For those of you that haven't seen him play, Kyrie isn't as good of a finisher as Rose. He is a BETTER finisher than rose. While giving up a step on athleticism, he has much more fine skill when it comes to scoring the ball and his technique is literally unstoppable. He knows the glass like the back of his hand and contorts his body in ways Rose couldnt when he was healthy. If you havent seen him play, dont be so quick to judge.

Clocian
02-03-2013, 03:52 PM
because yall forgot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yPPG-YJOIU

b@llhog24
02-03-2013, 03:54 PM
A youtube link. :laugh:

popo85
02-03-2013, 03:54 PM
The way he has started his career he is on his way

yaswaggin
02-03-2013, 04:05 PM
because yall forgot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yPPG-YJOIU

You forgot how he shot 35% against the heat in that playoff run

Clocian
02-03-2013, 04:16 PM
You forgot how he shot 35% against the heat in that playoff run

great players don't have bad series :rolleyes:

yaswaggin
02-03-2013, 04:22 PM
great players don't have bad series :rolleyes:

They do but him dropping 40+ on the hawks isn't that great

Clocian
02-03-2013, 04:28 PM
They do but him dropping 40+ on the hawks isn't that great

he's had better games against better teams, just used his highest scoring game as the reminder. :)

arkanian215
02-03-2013, 04:28 PM
0a

WITZ
02-03-2013, 04:32 PM
He stuffs his stats. Anyone can do that on a bad team. Sarcasm

Lets see how many people get on your case :laugh2:

Givin your hidden message

RenegadeRiot36
02-03-2013, 04:36 PM
He stuffs his stats. Anyone can do that on a bad team. Sarcasm

Its actually harder for point guards to stuff their stats on a bad team.

BULLSFAN0810
02-03-2013, 04:36 PM
You guys honestly are moronic if you are comparing the Bulls and Cavs wins. Last time i checked, Chicago is a 3 seed WITHOUT ROSE. The Cavs still essentially have mediocre talent.

And another problem you guys have is never seeing Kyrie play. Rose is in a huge market and was on national tv countless times. Kyrie Irving still hasnt been in a nationally televised game to this date not counting the rising stars game last time. For those of you that haven't seen him play, Kyrie isn't as good of a finisher as Rose. He is a BETTER finisher than rose. While giving up a step on athleticism, he has much more fine skill when it comes to scoring the ball and his technique is literally unstoppable. He knows the glass like the back of his hand and contorts his body in ways Rose couldnt when he was healthy. If you havent seen him play, dont be so quick to judge.


i watch Cavs ball and alot of othe r teams...KYRIE IS NO WHERE THE LEVEL OF ROSE AS FAR AS FINISHING..or as good. Rose is Super elite...Kyrie is very good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CIhyEPFc9c

b@llhog24
02-03-2013, 04:37 PM
He stuffs his stats. Anyone can do that on a bad team. Sarcasm

Not many can post an Ortg of 110 while have a USG% over 30.

b@llhog24
02-03-2013, 04:38 PM
i watch Cavs ball and alot of othe r teams...KYRIE IS NO WHERE THE LEVEL OF ROSE AS FAR AS FINISHING..or as good. Rose is Super elite...Kyrie is very good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CIhyEPFc9c

Then why Kyrie finishes better at the rim.

amos1er
02-03-2013, 04:39 PM
Before the Bulls fans rage, lets just get the fallacy that Rose carried the Bulls out of the way. He had an impact, but it wasn't as huge as people made it out to be as the Bulls have remained top 3 even without Rose's helpThat is not to say Rose isn't a great player, he provided the scoring output that the Bulls needed to make it far in the playoffs.That being said, currently, Kyrie is scoring just as much as Rose was on less shot attempts, with an efficiency higher than Rose ever had in his career. (24 ppg, 47%FG, 40%3PT, 84%FT)His defense is currently on par with Rose's after his first two yearsHe is averaging slightly less assists but that is a result of far worse teammatesWon't be long until Kyrie > Rose in all facets of the game

Tough to say for sure. It is very debatable though. If there was a way to put Kyrie on the Bulls, we would know for sure. Since we can only speculate, we have to give Rose the benefit of the doubt. Though I will say that Rose's MVP was one of the top 3 most overrated MVP's in NBA history and if Kyrie had been on the 2011 Bulls and put up the same numbers as he is now he would have won MVP for sure.

amos1er
02-03-2013, 04:41 PM
i watch Cavs ball and alot of othe r teams...KYRIE IS NO WHERE THE LEVEL OF ROSE AS FAR AS FINISHING..or as good. Rose is Super elite...Kyrie is very good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CIhyEPFc9c

Come on bro, it's pretty close. Take off your homer glasses. Even if you give Rose the edge (which I do) you have to admit that it's a very small edge. Rose is not Super elite. You make him sound like prince Vegeta...lol

bagwell368
02-03-2013, 04:44 PM
Offensively Irving is right up there already, but, defense is something he leaves to others unlike Rose.

BULLSFAN0810
02-03-2013, 04:46 PM
Tough to say for sure. It is very debatable though. If there was a way to put Kyrie on the Bulls, we would know for sure. Since we can only speculate, we have to give Rose the benefit of the doubt. Though I will say that Rose's MVP was one of the top 3 most overrated MVP's in NBA history and if Kyrie had been on the 2011 Bulls and put up the same numbers as he is now he would have won MVP for sure.


you say that bc ur in la...Rose was hitting game winners week to week esp when james at the same time was throwing up bricks or passing in crucial situations. thats how rose won it. the gen pop was seeing james mess up or passing out of alpha dog moments while rose was embracing it. IMO james won it for rose. rose had a great year. he was killing everyone. he even had kobe singing his praises. Jordan co signing,even though he hates the Bulls org. he had james giving him props . every nba player said rose was MVP but their followers dont. im not saying players know everything but they know enough. Plus i watche drose ...he was killing everyone. This is no homer moment..i cna show you ton of clips where this guy throws up floaters left hand ..from the side (NO BACK BOARD) he finishes lefty, he has agility which Irving doesnt ..irving has crazy english on the ball but so does RONDO..but they arent as good as a 6'3 point guard who jumps like a SF

CP3
dwill
Irving
rondo

WHOEVER!

BearsBullsSox
02-03-2013, 05:01 PM
MVP Rose put up numbers AND took his team to the playoffs. Kyrie's numbers are absolutely empty at this point. Dudes cant even get his squad to .500 in the EC.

ManRam
02-03-2013, 05:05 PM
MVP Rose put up numbers AND took his team to the playoffs. Kyrie's numbers are absolutely empty at this point. Dudes cant even get his squad to .500 in the EC.

Yes. Because Kyrie's roster is brimming with talent.

:laugh:

"Empty stats" is often a phrase I don't understand.

Hawkeye15
02-03-2013, 06:29 PM
MVP Rose put up numbers AND took his team to the playoffs. Kyrie's numbers are absolutely empty at this point. Dudes cant even get his squad to .500 in the EC.

You mean the same team that won 49 games, lost in the EC semifinals, were called the "up and coming" team in the NBA, then underachieved big time, missed the playoffs with a playoff caliber team, jumped 12 teams to get the #1 pick, and drafted Rose?

Is that the one?

I am sure Irving would have lovvvvvvvved to have been drafted into that scenario. Alas, he took the normal route the #1 pick takes, and is drafted to a team that is there for a reason. Cause they suck.

Corey
02-03-2013, 10:43 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
This is one of the dumbest threads ever.

Can we start a PSD wall of shame forum?


The bulls have a great coach. And have a great team.
They also have one of the top three players in the league.

I'm not even a bulls fan... **** in the 90s I hated the Bulls.
But they will eat the heat Knicks and anyone else in contention once Drose is healthy.

Stupid thread.See, you could have made a solid argument for yourself...But then this happened:


Top 3:

1 KD
2 DROSE (when healthy)
3a CP3
3b LBJ

Eek.

rocket
02-03-2013, 11:22 PM
Top 3:

1 KD
2 DROSE (when healthy)
3a CP3
3b LBJ

:pity:

bucketss
02-03-2013, 11:44 PM
you say that bc ur in la...Rose was hitting game winners week to week esp when james at the same time was throwing up bricks or passing in crucial situations. thats how rose won it. the gen pop was seeing james mess up or passing out of alpha dog moments while rose was embracing it. IMO james won it for rose. rose had a great year. he was killing everyone. he even had kobe singing his praises. Jordan co signing,even though he hates the Bulls org. he had james giving him props . every nba player said rose was MVP but their followers dont. im not saying players know everything but they know enough. Plus i watche drose ...he was killing everyone. This is no homer moment..i cna show you ton of clips where this guy throws up floaters left hand ..from the side (NO BACK BOARD) he finishes lefty, he has agility which Irving doesnt ..irving has crazy english on the ball but so does RONDO..but they arent as good as a 6'3 point guard who jumps like a SF

CP3
dwill
Irving
rondo

WHOEVER!

rose was overrated,over hyped. they should take that award away from him and give it to the righful owner which was dwight howard.

and is that your list of the top pgs? lmao dwil isn't on irving level neither is rondo.

Stuckey#3
02-04-2013, 12:12 AM
Maybe Kyrie will get to Droses level after he realizes that CLE has a ****** organization and takes his talents elsewhere.

JEDean89
02-04-2013, 12:49 AM
he's certainly making a case for it

KINGBAIZE
02-04-2013, 01:14 AM
Y'all talkin like Derrick Rose isn't gonna improve his game anymore, which is comical. Smh...Kyree is nice, but he's not surpassing D. Rose.

poleandreel
02-04-2013, 01:35 AM
He is already better than Rose.

3RDASYSTEM
02-04-2013, 01:42 AM
Trick ?

Did Irving have more or same type impact game as ROSE did in college?

only thing ROSE has on Irving is freakish physical/athletic ability

Irving has more/better range,ROSE is developing a 3pt shot,IRVING had it offtop, along with the other skill

so who do you want, a supreme athlete whos developing a consistent 3pt shot, or a skilled decent athlete type

both franchise type players

im taking ROSE because his midrange game is underrated and his athletic/physical ability is in the realm of WILT/SHAQ/BRON/AI/AMARE/KEMP/BARKLEY/GRIFFIN level....his 3pt game dont really matter as long as he can develop a respectable 3pt shot

but KYRIE is the raw deal,not to get it twisted..its neck and neck

i just feel ROSE's athletic/physical ability trumps the skill part,which ROSE has enough of,plenty

3RDASYSTEM
02-04-2013, 01:47 AM
rose was overrated,over hyped. they should take that award away from him and give it to the righful owner which was dwight howard.

and is that your list of the top pgs? lmao dwil isn't on irving level neither is rondo.

I get your angle but JORDAN/AI/BEAN/SHAQ/WILT/DUNCAN and many many others have been robbed of MVP....HOWARD/BRON could have won it but dont act like ROSE wasnt in the convo..he had the best record and was the best player with the best record

see how the media dictates the award..and hype?

ThaDubs
02-04-2013, 01:59 AM
you say that bc ur in la...Rose was hitting game winners week to week esp when james at the same time was throwing up bricks or passing in crucial situations. thats how rose won it. the gen pop was seeing james mess up or passing out of alpha dog moments while rose was embracing it. IMO james won it for rose. rose had a great year. he was killing everyone. he even had kobe singing his praises. Jordan co signing,even though he hates the Bulls org. he had james giving him props . every nba player said rose was MVP but their followers dont. im not saying players know everything but they know enough. Plus i watche drose ...he was killing everyone. This is no homer moment..i cna show you ton of clips where this guy throws up floaters left hand ..from the side (NO BACK BOARD) he finishes lefty, he has agility which Irving doesnt ..irving has crazy english on the ball but so does RONDO..but they arent as good as a 6'3 point guard who jumps like a SF

CP3
dwill
Irving
rondo

WHOEVER!

Lol! Is that your list of top 4 PGs? Replace D Will with Kyrie, bump Rondo and add my boy Steph.

denverfan66
02-04-2013, 02:00 AM
You can make a case for Irving over D-Rose, but right now for me Rose>Irving. Over time, the Bulls surrounded Derrick with a great surrounding cast, but those first few years that he was in the league Chitown was decent at best (the teams with Tyrus Thomas, Salmons, Brad Miller, Hinrich). Seeing how sub-par the East has been for all these years, those Bulls teams without Rose would still probably make the playoffs, but still. We wouldn't have seen the greatest playoff series of this decade without Derrick. I fully expect Kyrie to surpass Rose as long as the Cavs improve and come back into contention.

BULLSFAN0810
02-04-2013, 09:05 AM
You can make a case for Irving over D-Rose, but right now for me Rose>Irving. Over time, the Bulls surrounded Derrick with a great surrounding cast, but those first few years that he was in the league Chitown was decent at best (the teams with Tyrus Thomas, Salmons, Brad Miller, Hinrich). Seeing how sub-par the East has been for all these years, those Bulls teams without Rose would still probably make the playoffs, but still. We wouldn't have seen the greatest playoff series of this decade without Derrick. I fully expect Kyrie to surpass Rose as long as the Cavs improve and come back into contention.

he will never pass Rose..not fast enough or strong enough or big enough. as good of a pg irving is ..i cant see him passing a dominate type like rose. no matter how you guys discredit rose OR try to minimize his feat with the excuse of him having a team thats good Or not having a knock down steve nash jumper ,he still come to YOUR AREANA drops 25 plus 8 assists and wins. you havta put your BEST DEFENDER ON HIM. Kyrie isnt a CP3..He doesnt turn trash to gold,and rose owns CP3. So how can a irving as good as he is now surpass rose ?he doesnt drop dominate take over points like an elite guy..he is a good passer but he cant do it like Cp3...so i dont get your logic. To me it sounds like you respect rose bc the MVP but you dont think high of him as far as PGs...Im here to tell you this is a new brand of hooper,and irving isnt fast or athletic enough..he is a very good hooper but rose/cp3 tier 1 ..irving tier 2 and no more ..he is a guy that needs a team to really make himself shine..if he ws on rose/cp3 level the cavs would atleast be .500. or an 8th seed..and he is injury prone frail ...goodluck

Becks2307
02-04-2013, 09:48 AM
You can't say Derrick Rose is better right now, we have no idea how he is going to look.

ChitownSports16
02-04-2013, 10:17 AM
Irving needs to pass Westbrook before you even put him in the same category as Rose. I like watching Irving play but he reminds me of Jennings alot. I honestly think alot of you are hyping this kid way to much (where only in PSD that happens). And to say that Rose came to the Bulls with a decent team is laughable.

Rose has turned that franchise around. Rose has made guys like Deng and Noah be who they are now. Remember when you all use to sit on your computers **** talk about those 2?? Again, I'm not taking anything from Irving but let the dude at least have a winning record. What happen to the threads where most of you were saying they had a good team and this and that and aslo that they would be behind the Pacers? ya need to chill with this kind of talk.

Shmontaine
02-04-2013, 10:20 AM
You can't say Derrick Rose is better right now, we have no idea how he is going to look.

So is any injured PG not worth comparing?? Rondo, Rose, etc, can't be said to be better than anyone??

i like Kyrie a lot, but let's just take a step back and look for a second. this started because of one good fourth quarter in one game.. Derrick has done it routinely for years..

3RDASYSTEM
02-04-2013, 10:49 AM
I have been watching Rubio, and he is the typical deal. Came back 7 weeks ago, and is just now looking like the Rubio of old.


RUBIO of old is still the same player before his injury right?

a pass pass pass PG who cant really shoot from what i've watched and is pretty limited outside of him showing PISTOL flashes of 'passing', cause we know and he know he cant score buckets like PETE

hes pretty avg considering all that wait/highdraft he got, and that was before the injury he was pretty avg, especially going that high in draft and stayin overseas

be honest is he really better now than he was in EUROleague? like i said you are who you are til the mediahype gets involved, and he had a lil bit of it before his injury

he was starting to get that dumbass NASH talk 'making his mates better'...good-passer, avg-decent PG, not superstar/allstar perennial in my book, but what do i know, i just play and call it how i see it

Rivera
02-04-2013, 10:55 AM
I'll take kyrie right now over a healthy rose Kyrie isn't a great defender but put in in Chicago his d tremendously improves because of the help around him and the great defensive coach thibs is

Give me kyrie

3RDASYSTEM
02-04-2013, 11:02 AM
Come to think of it, maybe Kyrie would be putting up awesome efficiency numbers if he had ANY type of talent around him. But as is, I'd still take Rose, Kyrie is somewhat of a matador.

True

Its funny i made this point to CHRONZ the nba genuis on here and he swore i didnt know what i was talking about

i told him AI inherited 2&4ppg scorers and they signed 40milldollar contracts each, and AI had to shoot 30-40x a game just to keep his team in it but he had such poor fg pct that CHRONZ and the rest of the nba genuises felt like he should have passed more to 2ppg and 4ppg scorers....well he did and they end up avg 11.5ppg and 9-10ppg and 80mill total for 500k-2million$ type players

more i see this scoring PG and efficient talk and players teaming up the more i respect AI game/impact/dominance from day1 12yrs straight 96-2008

NYtilIdie
02-04-2013, 11:16 AM
I'm taking Kyrie over Rose regardless if he's healthy or not. Kyrie is on another level right now with his play.

BULLSFAN0810
02-04-2013, 11:33 AM
I'm taking Kyrie over Rose regardless if he's healthy or not. Kyrie is on another level right now with his play.

your smoking crack...get to .500. if i was the man,id get off too. as much as i dislike Wade, when he was by himself the heat was .500 team. YOUR A HATER BRO... I CAN SEE IF YOURE SAYING CP3 OR EVEN WESTBROOK BUT A PG WHO CANT STAY HEALTHY AND IS ON A LOSING TEAM? BRO....WTF?!

macc
02-04-2013, 11:33 AM
he will never pass Rose..not fast enough or strong enough or big enough. as good of a pg irving is ..i cant see him passing a dominate type like rose. no matter how you guys discredit rose OR try to minimize his feat with the excuse of him having a team thats good Or not having a knock down steve nash jumper ,he still come to YOUR AREANA drops 25 plus 8 assists and wins. you havta put your BEST DEFENDER ON HIM. Kyrie isnt a CP3..He doesnt turn trash to gold,and rose owns CP3. So how can a irving as good as he is now surpass rose ?he doesnt drop dominate take over points like an elite guy..he is a good passer but he cant do it like Cp3...so i dont get your logic. To me it sounds like you respect rose bc the MVP but you dont think high of him as far as PGs...Im here to tell you this is a new brand of hooper,and irving isnt fast or athletic enough..he is a very good hooper but rose/cp3 tier 1 ..irving tier 2 and no more ..he is a guy that needs a team to really make himself shine..if he ws on rose/cp3 level the cavs would atleast be .500. or an 8th seed..and he is injury prone frail ...goodluck


Lol, your post reaks of homerism. If Rose is so great then why does his team not miss a step without him? I thought Rose getting MVP was the biggest fluke in NBA history when it came to MVPs. Dwight Howard should of had it that year. Howard leaves Orlando and Orlando is now one of the top 4 worst teams in the league. Rose doesn't play for Chicago and they still are winning....what does that tell you?

I'll say it, Kryie > Rose. The thing is, Kryie is only 20 years old and he's already beasting. This year it may be debatable. In two years Kryie will be the best PG in the league. Book it.

macc
02-04-2013, 11:37 AM
Irving needs to pass Westbrook before you even put him in the same category as Rose. I like watching Irving play but he reminds me of Jennings alot. I honestly think alot of you are hyping this kid way to much (where only in PSD that happens). And to say that Rose came to the Bulls with a decent team is laughable.

Rose has turned that franchise around. Rose has made guys like Deng and Noah be who they are now. Remember when you all use to sit on your computers **** talk about those 2?? Again, I'm not taking anything from Irving but let the dude at least have a winning record. What happen to the threads where most of you were saying they had a good team and this and that and aslo that they would be behind the Pacers? ya need to chill with this kind of talk.



Your posts are laughable because you say one thing but stats don't back it up. First off Luol Deng has been respectbale ever since he got in the league. Saying Rose "put him where he is now" is laughable. Deng is having a better year THIS year then last year when they had Rose.

Noah is also having a better year this year without Rose then with him. So explain yourself when you're saying Rose is making these players better, yet without Rose they are having better seasons...

BULLSFAN0810
02-04-2013, 11:42 AM
Lol, your post reaks of homerism. If Rose is so great then why does his team not miss a step without him? I thought Rose getting MVP was the biggest fluke in NBA history when it came to MVPs. Dwight Howard should of had it that year. Howard leaves Orlando and Orlando is now one of the top 4 worst teams in the league. Rose doesn't play for Chicago and they still are winning....what does that tell you?

I'll say it, Kryie > Rose. The thing is, Kryie is only 20 years old and he's already beasting. This year it may be debatable. In two years Kryie will be the best PG in the league. Book it.


Same when Shaq was in Orlando..he was hurt the team stayed at the top ...ppl thought Orlando was as good w/o him...was that right ?
NO!
a good/great team can play w/o their best player...its a team sport. the best players wins the games.so while the Bulls are playing good they cannot win the ship w/o Rose ..he is the guy yoyu can put the ball in his hand and say go win it...thats what the Bulls miss and Rose provides...When Jordan left the Bulls ...the next year the Bulls were 1 games from the finals..was Jordan overrated..its not Homerism..its basketball IQ.The whole fact you say this displays you may not know as much as you think..i love the Bulls but im no Homer.. i dogged Boozer,Deng and whoever

BULLSFAN0810
02-04-2013, 11:45 AM
Your posts are laughable because you say one thing but stats don't back it up. First off Luol Deng has been respectbale ever since he got in the league. Saying Rose "put him where he is now" is laughable. Deng is having a better year THIS year then last year when they had Rose.

Noah is also having a better year this year without Rose then with him. So explain yourself when you're saying Rose is making these players better, yet without Rose they are having better seasons...

its the coach along with having roles...look at it like this Deng HAS TO STEP UP ..ITS A CONTRACT YEAR AND IF HE PLAYS BAD THEY WILL SHIP HIS *** OFF..ROSE IS OUT HE HAS TO BE THE LEADER. SO THEREFORE ROSE HAS BROUGHT STABILITY AND MADE PPL STEP UP...THIBS IS A GREAT COACH THAT HAS ALOT TO DO W IT

Iggz53
02-04-2013, 11:46 AM
How on earth is his defense on par with Rose now? That is by far Kyrie's biggest weakness, he has ways to go before you can even compare that aspect of their games.

macc
02-04-2013, 11:51 AM
Same when Shaq was in Orlando..he was hurt the team stayed at the top ...ppl thought Orlando was as good w/o him...was that right ?
NO!
a good/great team can play w/o their best player...its a team sport. the best players wins the games.so while the Bulls are playing good they cannot win the ship w/o Rose ..he is the guy yoyu can put the ball in his hand and say go win it...thats what the Bulls miss and Rose provides...When Jordan left the Bulls ...the next year the Bulls were 1 games from the finals..was Jordan overrated..its not Homerism..its basketball IQ.The whole fact you say this displays you may not know as much as you think..i love the Bulls but im no Homer.. i dogged Boozer,Deng and whoever



Rose can score but he's not a player thats going to win his team a championship. Yes a team should be able to hold their own without their best player but have you looked at the standings? Chicago is in 1st place in their devision, without their "best player." That's a little more then "holding their own" don't ya think?

Howard off Orlando = Orlando worst team in the NBA (close to it)
Rose off Chicago = Chicago STILL in first place.

I would of like to see Thibs get the MVP that season over Rose.

BULLSFAN0810
02-04-2013, 11:52 AM
lol, your post reaks of homerism. If rose is so great then why does his team not miss a step without him? I thought rose getting mvp was the biggest fluke in nba history when it came to mvps. Dwight howard should of had it that year. Howard leaves orlando and orlando is now one of the top 4 worst teams in the league. Rose doesn't play for chicago and they still are winning....what does that tell you?

I'll say it, kryie > rose. The thing is, kryie is only 20 years old and he's already beasting. This year it may be debatable. In two years kryie will be the best pg in the league. Book it.

and in my previous posts ..like @ months ago i thought irving would surpass cp3 eventually...homer or basketball scout? Check my post bro.....

macc
02-04-2013, 11:54 AM
its the coach along with having roles...look at it like this Deng HAS TO STEP UP ..ITS A CONTRACT YEAR AND IF HE PLAYS BAD THEY WILL SHIP HIS *** OFF..ROSE IS OUT HE HAS TO BE THE LEADER. SO THEREFORE ROSE HAS BROUGHT STABILITY AND MADE PPL STEP UP...THIBS IS A GREAT COACH THAT HAS ALOT TO DO W IT

The quote was made that Rose made Deng and Noah who they are today. Last I checked Deng has been in the league longer then Rose and has been doing this his entire career. Rose didn't create ****. If Rose was so important to Dengs and Noahs game then why would both of those players be having better years without Rose....hmmmmmm

In any case I would take Kryie now. He's only 20 years old and already putting up MVP Rose numbers. He will only get better.

macc
02-04-2013, 11:55 AM
your smoking crack...get to .500. if i was the man,id get off too. as much as i dislike Wade, when he was by himself the heat was .500 team. YOUR A HATER BRO... I CAN SEE IF YOURE SAYING CP3 OR EVEN WESTBROOK BUT A PG WHO CANT STAY HEALTHY AND IS ON A LOSING TEAM? BRO....WTF?!




Haha the Bulls fan is complaing about a PG being healthy.....where is Rose at right now? Oh ya....not healthy.

Iggz53
02-04-2013, 11:58 AM
Rose can score but he's not a player thats going to win his team a championship. Yes a team should be able to hold their own without their best player but have you looked at the standings? Chicago is in 1st place in their devision, without their "best player." That's a little more then "holding their own" don't ya think?

Howard off Orlando = Orlando worst team in the NBA (close to it)
Rose off Chicago = Chicago STILL in first place.

I would of like to see Thibs get the MVP that season over Rose.

How did Dwight get involved in this discussion? And I could easily just say this:
Cavs with Irving: last place
Cavs without Irving: last place

Btw, the person you quoted isn't a homer but he's not a representation of Bulls fans at all.

Shmontaine
02-04-2013, 12:01 PM
Lol, your post reaks of homerism. If Rose is so great then why does his team not miss a step without him? I thought Rose getting MVP was the biggest fluke in NBA history when it came to MVPs. Dwight Howard should of had it that year. Howard leaves Orlando and Orlando is now one of the top 4 worst teams in the league. Rose doesn't play for Chicago and they still are winning....what does that tell you?

Just because the bulls are winning, doesn't mean they 'haven't missed a step'. they'd be vying for the best record in the league if rose was playing, just like the last two years. does thibs have a lot to do with the bulls success, of course. But you overlook rose to make your point, and it's painfully obvious.

to say orlando is crap without dwight is ridiculous, he completely dismantled that team the year before he left, then left that team with nothing on his departure. Orlando's demise now s just as attributable to dwight as their success was attributable to him then... look how great he's making the lakers, btw...

the fact that chicago is successful says they're well coached and a great group of players. by your logic, the fact that chicago beat atlanta saturday without noah, boozer, hinrich, and rose means they are all most likely overrated. maybe the fact that the spurs have the best bench in the league diminishes the contributions of their starters to you too.

you put rose on the cavs, i'd be willing to bet they have a better record than 14-34


I'll say it, Kryie > Rose. The thing is, Kryie is only 20 years old and he's already beasting. This year it may be debatable. In two years Kryie will be the best PG in the league. Book it.

the thing is, you have no clue what will happen in two years... book it..

macc
02-04-2013, 12:03 PM
How did Dwight get involved in this discussion? And I could easily just say this:
Cavs with Irving: last place
Cavs without Irving: last place

Btw, the person you quoted isn't a homer but he's not a representation of Bulls fans at all.


I brought up Dwight after the quote stating that Rose made Deng and Noah who they were....which my rebuttle was if that's the case why is Chicago and these two players having better years without Rose then wight him, whereas you have Orlando who goes from a contender to bottom 4 worst in the league with him gone.

Granted Cleveland is in last now but Irving has missed 11 games this season, we'll see where the Cavs end up.

BULLSFAN0810
02-04-2013, 12:05 PM
Rose can score but he's not a player thats going to win his team a championship. Yes a team should be able to hold their own without their best player but have you looked at the standings? Chicago is in 1st place in their devision, without their "best player." That's a little more then "holding their own" don't ya think?

Howard off Orlando = Orlando worst team in the NBA (close to it)
Rose off Chicago = Chicago STILL in first place.

I would of like to see Thibs get the MVP that season over Rose.

how can you say that? Rose as a Frosh took a team to the big game and then imo wasnt as good as he is now.
and a champiionship calibur team can hold up for a time..theyre playing well imo bc they know rose is coming back and "its on". and Thibbs is a great coach..coaches coach and players play but one cant do it w/o the other.

Howard was never that good for his team..he cant post as well as he/you think ..ie why he suffered in Orlando and to a degree in LA..but i can see you case for Howard as MVP,but he didnt have the week to week impact of Rose. JAmes misses or passes up on a game winner ...rose comes out hits a game winner...he was outplaying the measuring stick. you guys can hate or call me a homer but rose was no fluke, i thought there would NEVER be another JOrdan,but Rose game has a little Jordan in it...and i watched Jordan from the age of 7 when he played Boston at the garden and dropped 60 plus,and i watched from that point on and i do have a point of refrence some may not...Rose iss the real deal ..and you know what ?!!! i remeber when JORDAN PALYED AND PPL HATED ON HIM JUST LIKE YOU GUYS DO ROSE...ITS NOT A LBJ HATE..ITS A DIFFRNT HATE ,WHERE PPL DONT ACKNOWLEDGE HOW GOOD HE IS, I REMEBER IT WELL..PPL YEAR AFTER YEAR DAY AFTER DAY SAID JORDAN WAS A BALL HOG < A CHUCKER , COULDNT SHOOT, COULDNT PASS BECAUSE HE WAS SELFISH< ONE DIMENSIONAL. WaS HE A SG OR PG ? HE COULDNT PLAY DEFENSE..AND HE PROVED THEM WRONG...INSERT ROSE NAME INSTEAD OF JORDAN>

BULLSFAN0810
02-04-2013, 12:07 PM
The quote was made that Rose made Deng and Noah who they are today. Last I checked Deng has been in the league longer then Rose and has been doing this his entire career. Rose didn't create ****. If Rose was so important to Dengs and Noahs game then why would both of those players be having better years without Rose....hmmmmmm

In any case I would take Kryie now. He's only 20 years old and already putting up MVP Rose numbers. He will only get better.

Deng was underachieving..he was said to be an elite player in the future, he played lackluster and was spotty at time until recently..and to be real ..irving is putting up numbers for a bad team and the team isnt 500 ?

macc
02-04-2013, 12:13 PM
Just because the bulls are winning, doesn't mean they 'haven't missed a step'. they'd be vying for the best record in the league if rose was playing, just like the last two years. does thibs have a lot to do with the bulls success, of course. But you overlook rose to make your point, and it's painfully obvious.

to say orlando is crap without dwight is ridiculous, he completely dismantled that team the year before he left, then left that team with nothing on his departure. Orlando's demise now s just as attributable to dwight as their success was attributable to him then... look how great he's making the lakers, btw...

the fact that chicago is successful says they're well coached and a great group of players. by your logic, the fact that chicago beat atlanta saturday without noah, boozer, hinrich, and rose means they are all most likely overrated. maybe the fact that the spurs have the best bench in the league diminishes the contributions of their starters to you too.

you put rose on the cavs, i'd be willing to bet they have a better record than 14-34



the thing is, you have no clue what will happen in two years... book it..




Theres one thing to have success, it's another to be in first place. Realize you're using these other teams as examples but you're using 1-2 game sample sizes. This entire year Rose has been out, yet Chicago is in first place, last year when Rose when out, Chicago maintained their winning. I'm just saying Rose doesn't have the impact that Chicago fans say he does. I'm not saying they are a better team without him, but when I hear comments about Rose making these other players better it's just annoying because it's not the case.

quade36
02-04-2013, 12:16 PM
The quote was made that Rose made Deng and Noah who they are today. Last I checked Deng has been in the league longer then Rose and has been doing this his entire career. Rose didn't create ****. If Rose was so important to Dengs and Noahs game then why would both of those players be having better years without Rose....hmmmmmm

In any case I would take Kryie now. He's only 20 years old and already putting up MVP Rose numbers. He will only get better.

Its funny how people like yourself (maybe not you but people who are obviously biased against the Bulls which would include you) said the Bulls were nothing without Rose a couple years ago. They claim Deng is overrated and should have never been an allstar. They claim that team is nothing and once Rose goes down they are done. How many threads were started by you people last year laughing at the Bulls once Rose went down. How they were bounced from the playoffs in the first round. Now you people are saying that the team is good without Rose? Like I said its funny.

macc
02-04-2013, 12:16 PM
how can you say that? Rose as a Frosh took a team to the big game and then imo wasnt as good as he is now.and a champiionship calibur team can hold up for a time..theyre playing well imo bc they know rose is coming back and "its on". and Thibbs is a great coach..coaches coach and players play but one cant do it w/o the other.

Howard was never that good for his team..he cant post as well as he/you think ..ie why he suffered in Orlando and to a degree in LA..but i can see you case for Howard as MVP,but he didnt have the week to week impact of Rose. JAmes misses or passes up on a game winner ...rose comes out hits a game winner...he was outplaying the measuring stick. you guys can hate or call me a homer but rose was no fluke, i thought there would NEVER be another JOrdan,but Rose game has a little Jordan in it...and i watched Jordan from the age of 7 when he played Boston at the garden and dropped 60 plus,and i watched from that point on and i do have a point of refrence some may not...Rose iss the real deal ..and you know what ?!!! i remeber when JORDAN PALYED AND PPL HATED ON HIM JUST LIKE YOU GUYS DO ROSE...ITS NOT A LBJ HATE..ITS A DIFFRNT HATE ,WHERE PPL DONT ACKNOWLEDGE HOW GOOD HE IS, I REMEBER IT WELL..PPL YEAR AFTER YEAR DAY AFTER DAY SAID JORDAN WAS A BALL HOG < A CHUCKER , COULDNT SHOOT, COULDNT PASS BECAUSE HE WAS SELFISH< ONE DIMENSIONAL. WaS HE A SG OR PG ? HE COULDNT PLAY DEFENSE..AND HE PROVED THEM WRONG...INSERT ROSE NAME INSTEAD OF JORDAN>



Ok 2 more things then I'm done with you because I hate debating with homers. 1) If Chicago is a first place team without Rose, then wouldn't you think with Rose they would be the clear favorites to win it all? The answere is no and I don't think Rose as a #1 option is going to get you a title. That's just an opinion of mine so that's a to be continued... 2) You just brought up Rose in the same sentence as Jordan....please go outside and practice falling down. Thankyou.

quade36
02-04-2013, 12:20 PM
Theres one thing to have success, it's another to be in first place. Realize you're using these other teams as examples but you're using 1-2 game sample sizes. This entire year Rose has been out, yet Chicago is in first place, last year when Rose when out, Chicago maintained their winning. I'm just saying Rose doesn't have the impact that Chicago fans say he does. I'm not saying they are a better team without him, but when I hear comments about Rose making these other players better it's just annoying because it's not the case.

No one says that. Actually, I've read Bulls fans on this forum generally say those other players are better than you think. That Noah is a top center in the east. That Deng is really good. And WITH Rose they can take down Miami.

My advice, stop hating. Worry about whatever team you root for. Everyone here gets it. You hate the Bulls, their fans, and anything about it. However, the character of your comments shows that you don't really care how Bulls fans respond you just want to ruffle their feathers.

quade36
02-04-2013, 12:22 PM
Ok 2 more things then I'm done with you because I hate debating with homers. 1) If Chicago is a first place team without Rose, then wouldn't you think with Rose they would be the clear favorites to win it all? The answere is no and I don't think Rose as a #1 option is going to get you a title. That's just an opinion of mine so that's a to be continued... 2) You just brought up Rose in the same sentence as Jordan....please go outside and practice falling down. Thankyou.

I think with Rose, Deng, Noah, and Boozer they have a chance to win the East. There is no clear favorite. That is just a stupid way to put things. And yes, WITH Rose they do have a chance.

Again stop hating. Worry about your own team. Like I say every year let the season play out. Your anger and inaccurate opinions toward bulls fans just makes everyone devalue what you say even more.

BULLSFAN0810
02-04-2013, 12:24 PM
Ok 2 more things then I'm done with you because I hate debating with homers. 1) If Chicago is a first place team without Rose, then wouldn't you think with Rose they would be the clear favorites to win it all? The answere is no and I don't think Rose as a #1 option is going to get you a title. That's just an opinion of mine so that's a to be continued... 2) You just brought up Rose in the same sentence as Jordan....please go outside and practice falling down. Thankyou.


even a first place teams need a leader...LA..kobe ..Miami..james..okc Durant ..do u think thos e teams will fall off completely? then you give no credit to Westbrook and company. You discredit a coach who can make a team actually play together when they were dependant on a player to start the offense. The bulls were ,last year the team picked by vegas ,experts to face OKC..rose goes down their out first round. And i can bring jordan up with rose ...A. they play for the same franchise B. Both won MVP. C. we havent in years seen in Chicago a player this dynamic D. we seen up close and personal Jordan,so EVERY GUY WHO PUTS ON A BULLS JERSEY WILL BE MEASURED AGAINST JORDAN..THATS WHAT WE WANT , THATS WHAT WE EXPECT. NOW IN YOUR AREA YOU MAY NOT HAVE A PLAYER OF THAT CALIBUR TO MEASURE SOME ONE TO, SO YOU CANT, BUT WE CAN...YA DIG?!

macc
02-04-2013, 12:27 PM
Its funny how people like yourself (maybe not you but people who are obviously biased against the Bulls which would include you) said the Bulls were nothing without Rose a couple years ago. They claim Deng is overrated and should have never been an allstar. They claim that team is nothing and once Rose goes down they are done. How many threads were started by you people last year laughing at the Bulls once Rose went down. How they were bounced from the playoffs in the first round. Now you people are saying that the team is good without Rose? Like I said its funny.


Can you please quote me when I said these things because I did not. If you're going to quote me, use what I said. Using meaningless comments of "all these people said this." This is very pointless when debating. No matter how good any team is in any sport. Everyone can say that about their team. Miami has been the favorites in the East yet they have their doubters all over the place.

Now going back to what I said, since you quoted me, you should really use things I stated because I choose my words wisely.

I have no bias against Chicago. I don't dislike the team whatsoever. So therefore I don't do any meaningless bashing. So when you say I have a bias that's simply wrong. Period.

I'm just saying Thibs system and style of play really elevate what Chicago is doing. Not only that but Chicago has a great group of players on that team. There are very little scrubs on the Bulls. Boozer, Deng, Rip, Hinrich, Noah, Taj, Teague could start and alot of NBA teams. I'm just saying if Rose is as great as some make him out to be, wouldn't him being the "superstar" he is be able to take his team to the finals? If you're adding an MVP to a team that without him is in first place....shouldn't that make them the clear favorites?

I don't dislike Rose, I just don't think he's the best PG in the league and think he gets over hyped alot. Theres a few PG' s I would take over him. It's just when people say that Rose made players like Deng and Noah, it's just stupid. Esp when they are having better years without Rose.

macc
02-04-2013, 12:30 PM
No one says that. Actually, I've read Bulls fans on this forum generally say those other players are better than you think. That Noah is a top center in the east. That Deng is really good. And WITH Rose they can take down Miami.

My advice, stop hating. Worry about whatever team you root for. Everyone here gets it. You hate the Bulls, their fans, and anything about it. However, the character of your comments shows that you don't really care how Bulls fans respond you just want to ruffle their feathers.


Wow dude, i'm not hating. Why does PSD have this thing where if you don't agree with a particular fan base you're hating? You're acting like I'm not bringing up valid points. If I just said statements like "Rose Sucks" then that would be hating. I'm saying maybe Rose doesn't have this great impact on his team that alot of people say he does when he's gone and his teammates are playing better and still putting themselves in first place. That's a solid statement, but go ahead, call me a "hater" for making a valid point.

ChitownbullsBG7
02-04-2013, 12:32 PM
The quote was made that Rose made Deng and Noah who they are today. Last I checked Deng has been in the league longer then Rose and has been doing this his entire career. Rose didn't create ****. If Rose was so important to Dengs and Noahs game then why would both of those players be having better years without Rose....hmmmmmm

In any case I would take Kryie now. He's only 20 years old and already putting up MVP Rose numbers. He will only get better.

Noah, Deng, boozer, belinelli, and taj are either shooting career lows or below their career average. Hell rip is to thinking about it. So I think its same to say that rose makes life a hell of a lot easier for our guys so I'm not understanding how your trying to down play it.

And so what if we lead our division w/o rose? Have you seen the east? Its full of wanna bees and shoulda couldas. I mean be real right now, and I'm not taking anything away from Irving because I think he is good with a bright future, but how the hell are people in here comparing him to rose when his team is no better than the hornets and bobcats?

Cleveland has more talent than most of the teams that they around. Kyrie has to do a better job getting his teammates involved. I mean think about it, the twolves have been missing love and rubipo for most of the year and still holds the better record. You take kyrie off of the cave and they probably still hover around those same wins.

Kyrie just isnt at that point yet where he can carry a team. Unlike derrick where when he is in the game is our offense.

Also kyrie D is terrible so that alone keeps him from being a top 3-5 pg. But he can work on these things. It is only his 2nd year.

macc
02-04-2013, 12:32 PM
even a first place teams need a leader...LA..kobe ..Miami..james..okc Durant ..do u think thos e teams will fall off completely? then you give no credit to Westbrook and company. You discredit a coach who can make a team actually play together when they were dependant on a player to start the offense. The bulls were ,last year the team picked by vegas ,experts to face OKC..rose goes down their out first round. And i can bring jordan up with rose ...A. they play for the same franchise B. Both won MVP. C. we havent in years seen in Chicago a player this dynamic D. we seen up close and personal Jordan,so EVERY GUY WHO PUTS ON A BULLS JERSEY WILL BE MEASURED AGAINST JORDAN..THATS WHAT WE WANT , THATS WHAT WE EXPECT. NOW IN YOUR AREA YOU MAY NOT HAVE A PLAYER OF THAT CALIBUR TO MEASURE SOME ONE TO, SO YOU CANT, BUT WE CAN...YA DIG?!


Lakers are to easy because even with Kobe they are out of the playoffs. Miami wihtout LJ is a 5th spot in the playoffs at best. You saw how well Miami was doing post Shaq and prior Lebron. OKC w/o Durrant is at best a 6-7th seed. I love Westy but him being the #1 opt w/o Durrant would put his team anywhere? Yet Chicago w/o Rose is still in first place..lol Stop talking.

Iggz53
02-04-2013, 12:33 PM
I brought up Dwight after the quote stating that Rose made Deng and Noah who they were....which my rebuttle was if that's the case why is Chicago and these two players having better years without Rose then wight him, whereas you have Orlando who goes from a contender to bottom 4 worst in the league with him gone.

Granted Cleveland is in last now but Irving has missed 11 games this season, we'll see where the Cavs end up.

Okay but the Bulls have also been playing significantly worse without D-Rose. You just don't see it because they played so well last year. Bulls are still on pace to have 12 more losses than last year, and last year Rose missed alot of time as well, where the Bulls played much worse without him. He isn't carrying the entire team but he makes a good team an instant contender. That's what elite players do.

BULLSFAN0810
02-04-2013, 12:35 PM
Wow dude, i'm not hating. Why does PSD have this thing where if you don't agree with a particular fan base you're hating? You're acting like I'm not bringing up valid points. If I just said statements like "Rose Sucks" then that would be hating. I'm saying maybe Rose doesn't have this great impact on his team that alot of people say he does when he's gone and his teammates are playing better and still putting themselves in first place. That's a solid statement, but go ahead, call me a "hater" for making a valid point.

bro i can tell u never played for a team or got off the bench...did you see last years playoff vs Philly..the bulls prior was playing well holding the fort down until their best player came back..so they had to play well for the playoff spot. Now if you remenber Rose destroyed INDY ( who is scary) then in the next series Rose wnt down and they lost to PHILLY??!?!?!?!?!? The team knew w/o Rose it was over..they let down.

NOW BACK TO IRVING...ALMOST THE SAME TEAM JAMES HAD WHEN HE WAS IN CLEV.... THEY SHOULD BE .500. ALL ELITE PLAYERS EVEN IF THEYRE ALONE CAN GET YOU TO THE 8th SEED..


BOSH IN TORONTO
WADE PRIOR TO SHAQ & JAMES
irving isnt in the same breathe bro

Iggz53
02-04-2013, 12:35 PM
Lakers are to easy because even with Kobe they are out of the playoffs. Miami wihtout LJ is a 5th spot in the playoffs at best. You saw how well Miami was doing post Shaq and prior Lebron. OKC w/o Durrant is at best a 6-7th seed. I love Westy but him being the #1 opt w/o Durrant would put his team anywhere? Yet Chicago w/o Rose is still in first place..lol Stop talking.

That is horribly untrue and you know it.

macc
02-04-2013, 12:36 PM
Ok I'm done in here but seriously. This year may be debatable, but in another 1-2 years Kyrie will be the best PG in the league. In his 2nd year he's already matching Rose's best and MVP season.

Btw to the people saying Kyrie has "terrible Defense" it's crazy but he's still averaging 1.8 spg. Yep, that's pretty terrible if you ask me.

quade36
02-04-2013, 12:37 PM
Can you please quote me when I said these things because I did not. If you're going to quote me, use what I said. Using meaningless comments of "all these people said this." This is very pointless when debating. No matter how good any team is in any sport. Everyone can say that about their team. Miami has been the favorites in the East yet they have their doubters all over the place.

Now going back to what I said, since you quoted me, you should really use things I stated because I choose my words wisely.

I have no bias against Chicago. I don't dislike the team whatsoever. So therefore I don't do any meaningless bashing. So when you say I have a bias that's simply wrong. Period.

I'm just saying Thibs system and style of play really elevate what Chicago is doing. Not only that but Chicago has a great group of players on that team. There are very little scrubs on the Bulls. Boozer, Deng, Rip, Hinrich, Noah, Taj, Teague could start and alot of NBA teams. I'm just saying if Rose is as great as some make him out to be, wouldn't him being the "superstar" he is be able to take his team to the finals? If you're adding an MVP to a team that without him is in first place....shouldn't that make them the clear favorites?

I don't dislike Rose, I just don't think he's the best PG in the league and think he gets over hyped alot. Theres a few PG' s I would take over him. It's just when people say that Rose made players like Deng and Noah, it's just stupid. Esp when they are having better years without Rose.

Well you are talking to several 15 year olds on this thread. Anyways, you should have posted this before going on your rants. You do realize by going on those rants (even if they were towards a certain few) made everyone else think you are just looking to anger bulls fans. This was your first post constructive non-lashing out post.

The reality is no superstar guarantees a championship for their team. But Rose is one of the best PGs in the league, there is no denying. Even if you had a Chris Paul on your team you'd still love to have Rose as well. He does make the Bulls a title contender. Can they win, not sure. Miami is really good, NY is really good, not to mention several teams in the West. But without him its definitely a lot harder.

If you saw anyone of my posts earlier on this thread I thought it was stupid comparing him to Irving and the person who started this thread was really trying to ruffle feathers. This thread should have been closed a long time ago as it really is a forum for biased people to complain about the Bulls and Bulls fans to backlash in defense. Hence when you start posting like you did against that one person, it just adds fuel to the fire.

ChitownbullsBG7
02-04-2013, 12:37 PM
Wow dude, i'm not hating. Why does PSD have this thing where if you don't agree with a particular fan base you're hating? You're acting like I'm not bringing up valid points. If I just said statements like "Rose Sucks" then that would be hating. I'm saying maybe Rose doesn't have this great impact on his team that alot of people say he does when he's gone and his teammates are playing better and still putting themselves in first place. That's a solid statement, but go ahead, call me a "hater" for making a valid point.

Things system is why we are #1. like I just said most of our players are shooting career lows. So your taking away from rose because of actually looking at each individual your looking at us being 28-18 in a weak conference. With rose I think, and most would agree, the bulls are still in single digits in the loss column.

heyman321
02-04-2013, 12:42 PM
That is horribly untrue and you know it.

Lmfao nothing untrue about it. I would go as far as saying 6th seed at best. People underrate what Lebron does for the team so much. He had almost a triple double last night against the Raptors but it was nothing compared to the story of how Bosh scored an amazing 28 points!!! Lebron does things that are amazing, but expected now. If they lost Lebron for 20 games, Heat would go 7-13. Lebron is just a freak so he never gets injured.

BULLSFAN0810
02-04-2013, 12:42 PM
Ok I'm done in here but seriously. This year may be debatable, but in another 1-2 years Kyrie will be the best PG in the league. In his 2nd year he's already matching Rose's best and MVP season.

Btw to the people saying Kyrie has "terrible Defense" it's crazy but he's still averaging 1.8 spg. Yep, that's pretty terrible if you ask me.

as the great Larry Brown once said WHILE HE WAS COACHING AI , WHO WAS LEADING THE LEAGUE IN THEfts SAID...JUST BECAUSE YOU GET STEALS DONT MEAN YOUR A GOOD DEEFNDER..IT MEANS YOU GAMBLE..AND GAMBLERS GET BEATEN MORE THAN THEY WIN. A GOOD DEFENDER MAKES A GUY MISS AND IS THERE TO LEAD A PLAYER WHO BEATS HIM TO THE HELP DEFENDER ...DUDE..you get 2 steals but you give up 5-10 points to get those 2 steals.

denverfan66
02-04-2013, 01:08 PM
he will never pass Rose..not fast enough or strong enough or big enough. as good of a pg irving is ..i cant see him passing a dominate type like rose. no matter how you guys discredit rose OR try to minimize his feat with the excuse of him having a team thats good Or not having a knock down steve nash jumper ,he still come to YOUR AREANA drops 25 plus 8 assists and wins. you havta put your BEST DEFENDER ON HIM. Kyrie isnt a CP3..He doesnt turn trash to gold,and rose owns CP3. So how can a irving as good as he is now surpass rose ?he doesnt drop dominate take over points like an elite guy..he is a good passer but he cant do it like Cp3...so i dont get your logic. To me it sounds like you respect rose bc the MVP but you dont think high of him as far as PGs...Im here to tell you this is a new brand of hooper,and irving isnt fast or athletic enough..he is a very good hooper but rose/cp3 tier 1 ..irving tier 2 and no more ..he is a guy that needs a team to really make himself shine..if he ws on rose/cp3 level the cavs would atleast be .500. or an 8th seed..and he is injury prone frail ...goodluck

As for CP3, until he starts getting up there in age, IMO he will be on a whole different planet when it comes to NBA point guards. You could make a case as Paul being the best all around PG this league has seen since Isiah. Statistically Rose and Chris have been equal the few times they've gone up against each other. You could argue that Rose's surrounding cast has been the deciding factor in Chicago having success against CP3's teams. When it comes to Rose being "bigger" then Kyrie, I don't see your reasoning. Physically they're almost exactly the same (Rose-6'3", 190 lbs. Irving-6'3", 191 lbs.) and Irving is top 5 in the league right now when it comes to being clutch. Being injury prone isn't something you should bring up when you're defending a guy who suffered a torn ACL.

Shmontaine
02-04-2013, 01:14 PM
Ok I'm done in here but seriously. This year may be debatable, but in another 1-2 years Kyrie will be the best PG in the league. In his 2nd year he's already matching Rose's best and MVP season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=rosede01&y1=2011&p2=irvinky01&y2=2013

1. he's not matching, he's below in points and he's well below in apg, all while playing half as many games so far. Kyrie would have to go nuts to match rose's numbers by years end...
2. you do know that "Rose's best and MVP season" was only his third season right?


Btw to the people saying Kyrie has "terrible Defense" it's crazy but he's still averaging 1.8 spg. Yep, that's pretty terrible if you ask me.

Drating of 109 is not good. sorry to break it to ya.

effen5
02-04-2013, 01:16 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=rosede01&y1=2011&p2=irvinky01&y2=2013

1. he's not matching, he's below in points and he's well below in apg, all while playing half as many games so far. Kyrie would have to go nuts to match rose's numbers by years end...
2. you do know that "Rose's best and MVP season" was only his third season right?



Drating of 109 is not good. sorry to break it to ya.

/thread silly forum

Oh...let me add...Boozer hurt a lot during that year, Noah also hurt a lot during that year. Bogans is your 2 guard.

So basically your starting 5 that year was
Rose
Bogans
Deng
Taj
Asik

Rose basically made everybody on that team better with all of the stars hurt.

Rose made Bogans, RB, Watson, Korver all better. Look how they are playing on their respective teams now...

effen5
02-04-2013, 01:22 PM
Ok I'm done in here but seriously. This year may be debatable, but in another 1-2 years Kyrie will be the best PG in the league. In his 2nd year he's already matching Rose's best and MVP season.

Btw to the people saying Kyrie has "terrible Defense" it's crazy but he's still averaging 1.8 spg. Yep, that's pretty terrible if you ask me.

Because steals means you are a good defender :rolleyes:

ThaDubs
02-04-2013, 02:06 PM
Btw to the people saying Kyrie has "terrible Defense" it's crazy but he's still averaging 1.8 spg. Yep, that's pretty terrible if you ask me.

People also said Harrison Barnes wasn't athletic enough. :rolleyes:

Bullsfan22
02-04-2013, 02:27 PM
This thread has gone into the dumps.

Kyrie isn't better than Rose's MVP year. I hope this answers the question of the thread.

ThaDubs
02-04-2013, 03:14 PM
This thread has gone into the dumps.

Kyrie isn't better than Rose's MVP year. I hope this answers the question of the thread.

That wasn't the question...

DLeeicious
02-04-2013, 03:41 PM
Btw to the people saying Kyrie has "terrible Defense" it's crazy but he's still averaging 1.8 spg. Yep, that's pretty terrible if you ask me.

BOOM! All these idiots saying his defense isn't great probably are just saying that from watching him play and didn't even look at the stat sheet showing 1.8 steals per game! Steals are where it's at!

smiddy012
02-04-2013, 03:43 PM
As for CP3, until he starts getting up there in age, IMO he will be on a whole different planet when it comes to NBA point guards. You could make a case as Paul being the best all around PG this league has seen since Isiah. Statistically Rose and Chris have been equal the few times they've gone up against each other. You could argue that Rose's surrounding cast has been the deciding factor in Chicago having success against CP3's teams. When it comes to Rose being "bigger" then Kyrie, I don't see your reasoning. Physically they're almost exactly the same (Rose-6'3", 190 lbs. Irving-6'3", 191 lbs.) and Irving is top 5 in the league right now when it comes to being clutch. Being injury prone isn't something you should bring up when you're defending a guy who suffered a torn ACL.

Just to clarify, they've played 5 times. First game Rose got served. 2nd game CP3 slightly outplayed Rose. 3rd game CP3 outplayed Rose. 4th game Rose outplayed CP3. 5th game Rose owned CP3, and that was CP3's second most efficient game of their 5 matchups. So the trend is definitely pointing a certain direction.

Rose hasn't proven that he's better than CP3 yet. But he's proven that he's better than every other point guard in the league.

Assuming they both stay healthy, it will be really fun to see Rose and Kyrie go head to head in time. Kyrie is definitely closing in on DRose fast.

boateng
02-04-2013, 07:01 PM
Just to clarify, they've played 5 times. First game Rose got served. 2nd game CP3 slightly outplayed Rose. 3rd game CP3 outplayed Rose. 4th game Rose outplayed CP3. 5th game Rose owned CP3, and that was CP3's second most efficient game of their 5 matchups. So the trend is definitely pointing a certain direction.

Rose hasn't proven that he's better than CP3 yet. But he's proven that he's better than every other point guard in the league.

Assuming they both stay healthy, it will be really fun to see Rose and Kyrie go head to head in time. Kyrie is definitely closing in on DRose fast.

Well Nah.

No matter how good Irving is, it will mean nothing if he doesnt get in the play-offs. He can put up all these stellar performances and numbers but it will be looked at as ''empty stats'' if the Cavs are not in the playoffs next season or the season after.
Now we can argue about his supporting case is inferior to D-Rose etc...but i still think if Rose was on that Cavs team, they would have more wins. D-Rose style of plays gets you more wins imo.

OceanSpray
02-04-2013, 07:28 PM
I'm sorry but Rose was the best PG at that time. You can argue Chris Paul but Rose was by far the best PG... Not even worth debating.

Bullsfan22
02-04-2013, 07:32 PM
BOOM! All these idiots saying his defense isn't great probably are just saying that from watching him play and didn't even look at the stat sheet showing 1.8 steals per game! Steals are where it's at!

Love it.

BleedingGreen9
02-04-2013, 07:38 PM
if i was building a team and could have any pg to build around give me Irving. Kid isnt even old enough to buy a beer and look what hes doing

BleedingGreen9
02-04-2013, 07:39 PM
Irving is the future but not at Droses MVP caliper season yet but will be soon

poleandreel
02-04-2013, 08:04 PM
So only Chicago homers are saying Rose? Interesting.

All I know is that, if I'm starting a franchise today and need a cornerstone, #1 option, I'm taking Irving over Rose 1000 times out of 1000 and it's isn't close.

Hawkeye15
02-04-2013, 08:07 PM
RUBIO of old is still the same player before his injury right?

a pass pass pass PG who cant really shoot from what i've watched and is pretty limited outside of him showing PISTOL flashes of 'passing', cause we know and he know he cant score buckets like PETE

hes pretty avg considering all that wait/highdraft he got, and that was before the injury he was pretty avg, especially going that high in draft and stayin overseas

be honest is he really better now than he was in EUROleague? like i said you are who you are til the mediahype gets involved, and he had a lil bit of it before his injury

he was starting to get that dumbass NASH talk 'making his mates better'...good-passer, avg-decent PG, not superstar/allstar perennial in my book, but what do i know, i just play and call it how i see it

Watch him play bud. His burst is back, and he has actually been shooting the ball fine the last 4 games. On top of that, he does make his teammates better, and is by far and away the best on the ball defender we have at either guard position.

Hawkeye15
02-04-2013, 08:09 PM
You mean the same team that won 49 games, lost in the EC semifinals, were called the "up and coming" team in the NBA, then underachieved big time, missed the playoffs with a playoff caliber team, jumped 12 teams to get the #1 pick, and drafted Rose?

Is that the one?

I am sure Irving would have lovvvvvvvved to have been drafted into that scenario. Alas, he took the normal route the #1 pick takes, and is drafted to a team that is there for a reason. Cause they suck.

I see this post has been skipped over for pages. If you are using team success to defend Rose, you are being ridiculous, and not using context in the slightest. Rose walked into a team that jumped 12 teams to get him, and had been a 49 win team the year prior to underachieving to get him. Irving, not so much.

Hawkeye15
02-04-2013, 08:11 PM
I'm sorry but Rose was the best PG at that time. You can argue Chris Paul but Rose was by far the best PG... Not even worth debating.

Paul was better that year, but he played on a team that was no good, and had zip chance at the MVP.

WITZ
02-04-2013, 08:19 PM
So only Chicago homers are saying Rose? Interesting.

All I know is that, if I'm starting a franchise today and need a cornerstone, #1 option, I'm taking Irving over Rose 1000 times out of 1000 and it's isn't close.

Yea ,its reminding me of how kobe/laker fans used to get defensive when they would say Lebron was a better player.

Blitzbolt
02-04-2013, 08:27 PM
This angers me if you don't have Ws you are not worth talking about just like Love.

I rather have Mario Chalmers who is a proven winner(HS,College,NBA).

Ps Don't come with the 'He is playing with bad players is not his fault'' excuse I don't give $%^& NO WINS no NOTHING he is a loser in my book not worth talking about.

Come back to me when he actually wins something.

rocket
02-04-2013, 08:31 PM
This angers me if you don't have Ws you are not worth talking about just like Love.

I rather have Mario Chalmers who is a proven winner(HS,College,NBA).

Ps Don't come with the 'He is playing with bad players is not his fault'' excuse I don't give $%^& NO WINS no NOTHING he is a loser in my book not worth talking about.

Come back to me when he actually wins something.

:laugh: God, I can't tell what runs through some peoples heads.

ClevelandSpider
02-04-2013, 08:32 PM
This angers me if you don't have Ws you are not worth talking about just like Love.

I rather have Mario Chalmers who is a proven winner(HS,College,NBA).

Ps Don't come with the 'He is playing with bad players is not his fault'' excuse I don't give $%^& NO WINS no NOTHING he is a loser in my book not worth talking about.

Come back to me when he actually wins something.

You would rather have Mario Chalmers...Marriiiooo Chhhaaalllmmmeeerrrsss...than Kyrie??? Haha, well I guess every village has an idiot and you're it! Thanks for the sig comment, your idiocy will be forever immortalized in my signature and I'm sure many others Haha

ClevelandSpider
02-04-2013, 08:33 PM
You would rather have Mario Chalmers...Marriiiooo Chhhaaalllmmmeeerrrsss...than Kyrie??? Haha, well I guess every village has an idiot and you're it! Thanks for the sig comment, your idiocy will be forever immortalized in my signature and I'm sure many others Haha

Said with a Stephen A. voice...ahah, this guy was a closet idiot, he officially just "came out" lol

Blitzbolt
02-04-2013, 08:35 PM
You would rather have Mario Chalmers...Marriiiooo Chhhaaalllmmmeeerrrsss...than Kyrie??? Haha, well I guess every village has an idiot and you're it! Thanks for the sig comment, your idiocy will be forever immortalized in my signature and I'm sure many others Haha

Mario beat Rose in College by him self the guy Knows how to get Ws and not empty stats on bad teams that's pretty easy to do.

effen5
02-04-2013, 08:41 PM
So only Chicago homers are saying Rose? Interesting.

All I know is that, if I'm starting a franchise today and need a cornerstone, #1 option, I'm taking Irving over Rose 1000 times out of 1000 and it's isn't close.

Well good for you sweetheart....

The fact that you say it isn't even close makes you a complete idiot.

People completely forget how unguardable Rose is. It's okay though, he loves proving people wrong.

ClevelandSpider
02-04-2013, 08:41 PM
Mario beat Rose in College by him self the guy Knows how to get Ws and not empty stats on bad teams that's pretty easy to do.

So are you saying that you would rather have Chalmers than Rose? I thought you were refering to Kyrie, but in fact you are saying you'd rather have Marrrriiiiooo Chhhaaalllmmmeeerrrss than Derrick Rose?

Blitzbolt
02-04-2013, 08:43 PM
So are you saying that you would rather have Chalmers than Rose? I thought you were refering to Kyrie, but in fact you are saying you'd rather have Marrrriiiiooo Chhhaaalllmmmeeerrrss than Derrick Rose?

Mario over Kyrie.

Rose actually wins regular season games(no in the playoffs/Final four he chokes).

ClevelandSpider
02-04-2013, 08:43 PM
Well good for you sweetheart....

The fact that you say it isn't even close makes you a complete idiot.

People completely forget how unguardable Rose is. It's okay though, he loves proving people wrong.

Yea that seems a bit much, 1000 out of 1000 times, dannnggg he means it...I think you're right that people have forgotten about Rose, I hope he comes back 100% but that's the thing with ACL injuries, not everyone is AP and returns the same...I'll admit Rose has been an afterthought as of late, but then I went and watched some youtube videos and they reminded me why hes top 5 in the NBA (fully healthy of course)

ClevelandSpider
02-04-2013, 08:45 PM
Mario over Kyrie.

Rose actually wins regular season games(no in the playoffs he chokes).

Ok thanks again for the sig comment, who do you think LeBron and the Heat would rather have?

Blitzbolt
02-04-2013, 08:46 PM
Ok thanks again for the sig comment, who do you think LeBron and the Heat would rather have?A winner go look up Monta Ellis putting up empty stats on bad teams in easy.

effen5
02-04-2013, 08:47 PM
People forget, he still has an MVP in his back pocket...people can discredit that if they want but the point is, he has played out of his mind and to even be considered an MVP at the time when there were candidates like D12, and Lebron James....that means that you have to be pretty ****in good to win the MVP. That kid is a ****in idiot if he thinks the gap between Rose and Irving is huge....He also led his team his team at the age of 22 to the ECF....that was with an injured Boozer, injured Noah, and no shooting guard, new coach, new system and a bunch of new players ....and we lost to a team that has 2 future hall of famers and 1 possible hall of famer....again...at the age of 22 and his 3rd year in the league. Rose was unstoppable in his MVP year. Unstoppable. Oh and Rose isn't even close to hitting his prime yet.

Blitzbolt
02-04-2013, 08:50 PM
People forget, he still has an MVP in his back pocket...people can discredit that if they want but the point is, he has played out of his mind and to even be considered an MVP at the time when there were candidates like D12, and Lebron James....that means that you have to be pretty ****in good to win the MVP. That kid is a ****in idiot if he thinks the gap between Rose and Irving is huge....He also led his team his team at the age of 22 to the ECF....that was with an injured Boozer, injured Noah, and no shooting guard, new coach, new system and a bunch of new players ....and we lost to a team that has 2 future hall of famers and 1 possible hall of famer....again...at the age of 22 and his 3rd year in the league. Rose was unstoppable in his MVP year. Unstoppable.
Unstoppable??How did Lebron stop him then?Lebron got rop that was a fake MVP award the better player was lebron Rose is was not the MVP.

effen5
02-04-2013, 08:52 PM
Unstoppable??How did Lebron stop him then?Lebron got rop that was a fake MVP award the better player was lebron Rose is was not the MVP.

Rose admitted at the end he was exhausted and played poorly in that series.

effen5
02-04-2013, 08:53 PM
MVP = regular season...

Bulls = 62-20

Rose = MVP

effen5
02-04-2013, 08:53 PM
BTW this website is ****in faulty I can't type **** without it being faulty

Hawkeye15
02-04-2013, 08:54 PM
This angers me if you don't have Ws you are not worth talking about just like Love.

I rather have Mario Chalmers who is a proven winner(HS,College,NBA).

Ps Don't come with the 'He is playing with bad players is not his fault'' excuse I don't give $%^& NO WINS no NOTHING he is a loser in my book not worth talking about.

Come back to me when he actually wins something.

Do you ever give thought to roster support? I mean, I know that is a rhetorical question, but shall we pull up what Irving or Love has played with, compared to Chalmers or Rose?

Blitzbolt
02-04-2013, 08:58 PM
Do you ever give thought to roster support? I mean, I know that is a rhetorical question, but shall we pull up what Irving or Love has played with, compared to Chalmers or Rose?

Good players make it work they work harder on defense practice ect...Good players make their teams better look at Lebron in Cle that was a pretty bad team yet he took them to another level.

Scoring points while your team in down by 20 every game is not something worth talking about

Hawkeye15
02-04-2013, 09:02 PM
Good players make it work they work harder on defense practice ect...Good players make their teams better look at Lebron in Cle that was a pretty bad team yet he took them to another level.

Scoring points while your team in down by 20 every game is not something worth talking about

A- he isn't LeBron
B- you are still missing the point dude. Typically a top 2 pick goes to a ****** team. Rose did not his team was already a playoff caliber team that underachieved, and jumped 12 teams to land him.

You have absolutely zero understanding of roster support, or context when measuring players. I get that. But your argument of Chalmers over Irving is funny enough, not even worth touching the Irving/Rose debate with you when you make statements like that.

Blitzbolt
02-04-2013, 09:08 PM
A- he isn't LeBron
B- you are still missing the point dude. Typically a top 2 pick goes to a ****** team. Rose did not his team was already a playoff caliber team that underachieved, and jumped 12 teams to land him.

You have absolutely zero understanding of roster support, or context when measuring players. I get that. But your argument of Chalmers over Irving is funny enough, not even worth touching the Irving/Rose debate with you when you make statements like that.I do get it look at Pau Gasol in Memphis and then in LA.People are already calling Kyrie and Love MVP type players but in reality they are second options on good teams.That's my point but people overrated this guys just because they are the tallest midget on bad teams.

Furymaker
02-04-2013, 09:24 PM
I dont know why do you always argue about some shitass topic
Kyrie is really good , great actually , but his supporting cast just sucks , they suck so hard i doubt even lebron would take them to playoffs .
Kyrie is not better or at Rose MVP lvl , but he is close , if he continue to improve like he did , maybe next year he'll be there , kid got potential and is actually miles better shooter than Rose ever was , if he improve his defense and get some more wins you could make a case for him being at Rose level .
and thing you all say Lebron stopped Rose are just crap , he did not stop Rose , fatigue stopped Rose , there is no defender who can stop players like Rose , Lebron , KD , Melo , etc. They only can stop themselves .
Rose carried whole Bulls squad on his shoulders whole season long and through the playoffs got them to ECF where he just burned off , Heat team defense as well as Lebron's athletic ability just made it a lot harder for him and that resulted for all of you saying Lebron stopped him .

Back on topic - if Rose is on his level when he returns I'd still take him over Kyrie , He just has more potential whether you like it or not , he's more athletic , better defender ( not saying Kyrie will not improve )and with his work ethic I don't doubt he'll eventually become better shooter , on Kyrie level ( even this season is real possibility ) .

Furymaker
02-04-2013, 09:24 PM
I dont know why do you always argue about some shitass topic
Kyrie is really good , great actually , but his supporting cast just sucks , they suck so hard i doubt even lebron would take them to playoffs .
Kyrie is not better or at Rose MVP lvl , but he is close , if he continue to improve like he did , maybe next year he'll be there , kid got potential and is actually miles better shooter than Rose ever was , if he improve his defense and get some more wins you could make a case for him being at Rose level .
and thing you all say Lebron stopped Rose are just crap , he did not stop Rose , fatigue stopped Rose , there is no defender who can stop players like Rose , Lebron , KD , Melo , etc. They only can stop themselves .
Rose carried whole Bulls squad on his shoulders whole season long and through the playoffs got them to ECF where he just burned off , Heat team defense as well as Lebron's athletic ability just made it a lot harder for him and that resulted for all of you saying Lebron stopped him .

Back on topic - if Rose is on his level when he returns I'd still take him over Kyrie , He just has more potential whether you like it or not , he's more athletic , better defender ( not saying Kyrie will not improve )and with his work ethic I don't doubt he'll eventually become better shooter , on Kyrie level ( even this season is real possibility ) .

seikou8
02-04-2013, 11:02 PM
bull fans are salty

DallasTrilla23
02-04-2013, 11:33 PM
Kyrie has the potential to get to Rose's level but I don't know if he'll ever be better than Rose, considering that Rose hasn't even reached his peak yet.

Melo15
02-04-2013, 11:38 PM
This angers me if you don't have Ws you are not worth talking about just like Love.

I rather have Mario Chalmers who is a proven winner(HS,College,NBA).

Ps Don't come with the 'He is playing with bad players is not his fault'' excuse I don't give $%^& NO WINS no NOTHING he is a loser in my book not worth talking about.

Come back to me when he actually wins something.

Holy ****ing **** this is great :laugh2:

Melo15
02-04-2013, 11:41 PM
As for this thread, no Kyrie isn't there yet. Kyrie's career is off to a great start and I, like some others here, think he eventually could pass Rose but it's too early to say he's on that level. Kyrie has to improve defensively and we need to see how Rose comes back from his ACL injury. Kyrie is a great young talent and I love watching him play but this is a bit premature.

Iggz53
02-04-2013, 11:46 PM
As for this thread, no Kyrie isn't there yet. Kyrie's career is off to a great start and I, like some others here, think he eventually could pass Rose but it's too early to say he's on that level. Kyrie has to improve defensively and we need to see how Rose comes back from his ACL injury. Kyrie is a great young talent and I love watching him play but this is a bit premature.

Agreed. Personally, I have Kyrie 3rd right now behind CP3 and Rose (obviously when healthy). Dude is an absolute beast who is already an elite shooter, and he will only get better.

Melo15
02-04-2013, 11:52 PM
Agreed. Personally, I have Kyrie 3rd right now behind CP3 and Rose (obviously when healthy). Dude is an absolute beast who is already an elite shooter, and he will only get better.

I agree, but obviously I'm extremely biased towards Kyrie. What I don't get though is it seems like many aren't accounting for the potential for Rose to grow as a player. I get that it's easier to point towards a younger player and focus on their room for growth but Rose is still quite young and is obviously a dedicated, hard working player. Maybe it's an out of mind, out of sight type of thing. Either way though, these two should have some fun battles in the coming years.

Bullsfan22
02-05-2013, 01:05 AM
I agree, but obviously I'm extremely biased towards Kyrie. What I don't get though is it seems like many aren't accounting for the potential for Rose to grow as a player. I get that it's easier to point towards a younger player and focus on their room for growth but Rose is still quite young and is obviously a dedicated, hard working player. Maybe it's an out of mind, out of sight type of thing. Either way though, these two should have some fun battles in the coming years.

This.

There's no way anyone can say for sure who will be the better player when your talking about two players this young and this good. It's funny how a Kyrie Irving fan can come in and be objective but other posters come in just to discredit another player's accomplishments to make their opinion or prediction of the future seem right. Bulls fans get called homers and sometimes rightfully so but I get the feeling some fans are either bored of their losing teams or jealous they don't have a player of Rose's caliber and don't like to see a fan base celebrate their star.

NoahH
02-05-2013, 01:11 PM
I'd say he's pretty close, but the thing is the Bulls were like 62-20 that year and the Cavs will be lucky to win 30 games this year.

boateng
02-05-2013, 02:39 PM
A- he isn't LeBron
B- you are still missing the point dude. Typically a top 2 pick goes to a ****** team. Rose did not his team was already a playoff caliber team that underachieved, and jumped 12 teams to land him.

You have absolutely zero understanding of roster support, or context when measuring players. I get that. But your argument of Chalmers over Irving is funny enough, not even worth touching the Irving/Rose debate with you when you make statements like that.

Irving hasnt proven anything to be suddenly on derrick rose's level. i know he is on a bad team, but so was lebron, was was tmac in orlando, so was garnett with the timberwolves.

i like irving and he should make the playoffs and have a big impact on the league, but he becoming very overrated imo.

boateng
02-05-2013, 02:40 PM
Agreed. Personally, I have Kyrie 3rd right now behind CP3 and Rose (obviously when healthy). Dude is an absolute beast who is already an elite shooter, and he will only get better.

his coach, byron scott said only cp3 and rondo are better than him.

DR_1
02-05-2013, 04:12 PM
No but he has impressed me a lot this year. I knew this guy would be a stud :drool: