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amos1er
01-31-2013, 11:07 PM
Kevin Ding @KevinDing 2 hours ago
Among NBA's top five all-time scorers, @Kobe Bryant now has the most assists. Kobe (5,664 assists) passed Kareem (5,660) last night

This was posted in the Lakers forum by (Championships), so I can't take credit for it, but thought I would share for all the haters who say Kobe is a ball hog.

CHANGO
01-31-2013, 11:13 PM
Well... Isn't really THAT impressive when you see that 3 of those 5 players are C's and/or PF's and the other is Michael Jordan...

Good for him tho.

b@llhog24
01-31-2013, 11:14 PM
Well MJ had a shorter career and played with a secondary ball handler, while the rest of the other players are big men. Impressive but when it's put into perspective, it kinds of loses a bit of its luster.

TylerSL
01-31-2013, 11:19 PM
^ agree with both posts.

Barring injury, when Lebron breaks the scoring record he will lead the top 5 in assists by a huge margin.

amos1er
01-31-2013, 11:23 PM
^ agree with both posts.

Barring injury, when Lebron breaks the scoring record he will lead the top 5 in assists by a huge margin.

Not when, if...

Lets see how Lebron's style of play holds up in the long run. His game is mostly based on athleticism, he has hit his plateau and will likely not put up even close to the same numbers once he hits 30. Lets see how far these "fundamentals" so many on here claim he has get him when he is one step slower in a few years.

JNoel
01-31-2013, 11:33 PM
Lebrons just getting started, he's got a good 6 more productive seasons before he will start to decline in the least bit. He's basically entering his prime right about now, no way he's declining when he reaches 30.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-31-2013, 11:36 PM
This was posted in the Lakers forum by (Championships), so I can't take credit for it, but thought I would share for all the haters who say Kobe is a ball hog.

Just because he has assist doesn't mean he's not a ball hog.

sep11ie
01-31-2013, 11:38 PM
Here the rest of the world thought the Lakers forum was where this belonged... Hmmmm...

tapajafri
01-31-2013, 11:38 PM
So how long until Lebron shatters this record too?

Lebron is better. just accept it, laker fans.

Ezio
01-31-2013, 11:38 PM
The fact that he barely passed Kareem should be the emphasis here.

ztilzer31
01-31-2013, 11:39 PM
This was posted in the Lakers forum by (Championships), so I can't take credit for it, but thought I would share for all the haters who say Kobe is a ball hog.

Also has the most shot attempts, and is the only player on that list to run his coach, and the best player on the team out of the team in one year. While being charged for rape.

Kobe's got a whole laundry list of problems.

championships
01-31-2013, 11:40 PM
Haters gonna Hate.

Found away to stick Lebron in the convo :facepalm:

sep11ie
01-31-2013, 11:47 PM
Haters gonna Hate.

Found away to stick Lebron in the convo :facepalm:

Or Laker's fans could stop filling up the NBA forum with Lakers garbage nobody would hate.

UPRock
01-31-2013, 11:50 PM
And who's the only rapist in that list? Teehee!

lakers4sho
01-31-2013, 11:51 PM
Imagine if he didnt play in the triangle

Just 4games of bernie and hes had the highest 4game assist total

Stuckey#3
01-31-2013, 11:53 PM
Stop bing delusional... Not even your precious king can beat Father Time.
Lebron will hit his endurance/athleticism wall in three years.

Unless he pulls a lance and starts using PEDs.

KobeOwnSU
01-31-2013, 11:53 PM
Or Laker's fans could stop filling up the NBA forum with Lakers garbage nobody would hate.

I got a suggestion: don't click on a thread that has Kobe in the title if you don't want to here about the Lakers and /or him.

championships
01-31-2013, 11:54 PM
Or Laker's fans could stop filling up the NBA forum with Lakers garbage nobody would hate.

Careful Envy is a deadly sin.

Can't blame you for wanting to witness your team to win a ship instead of the lakers all the time :laugh2:

LAcowBOMBER
01-31-2013, 11:55 PM
Also has the most shot attempts, and is the only player on that list to run his coach, and the best player on the team out of the team in one year. While being charged for rape.

Kobe's got a whole laundry list of problems.

Shaq gave up against the Pistons and only won a championship because of Wade once he left LA. Kobe didn't run himself out of town so he didn't run the best play out of town. Shaq and Kobe both did not like each other and just weren't going to coexist anymore and Kobe was younger and better so the Lakers kept him, good move.

Phil came back once the Lakers got some more talent. I don't put that on Kobe, it is on Phil not wanting to coach a team that is not a championship contender.

Please with that BS rape case. It had no merit. Only reason he gave her money to avoid a civil trial was so he didn't have to get up on the stand and tell an embarrassing story of cheating on his wife with some crazy ***** that was a 7 on a good day and to just move on with his life as quickly as possible.

Hater

championships
01-31-2013, 11:56 PM
Stop bing delusional... Not even your precious king can beat Father Time.
Lebron will hit his endurance/athleticism wall in three years.

Unless he pulls a lance and starts using PEDs.
Have you seen him? Probably already is.

Specially with the the story about the Miami based lab coming out.

KobeOwnSU
02-01-2013, 12:00 AM
LeBron is great but his game depends on athleticism and brute force. He doesn't have the footwork or jump shot that Kobe or Jordan have/had. Unless he really works on his shot i just don't see how he can keep up with this pace...Durant would be more likely because he is a pure shooter which bodes better against age.

LAcowBOMBER
02-01-2013, 12:02 AM
Or Laker's fans could stop filling up the NBA forum with Lakers garbage nobody would hate.

Some people have been putting to much Laker stuff in the NBA forum, but having the most assists of the top 5 scorers seems certainly reasonable for the NBA forum

Stuckey#3
02-01-2013, 12:04 AM
That might explain the premature balding an mood swings... :laugh:

bucketss
02-01-2013, 12:08 AM
Haters gonna Hate.

Found away to stick Lebron in the convo :facepalm:

thats what the op wanted, all he ever talks about is kobe or lebron.

bucketss
02-01-2013, 12:11 AM
LeBron is great but his game depends on athleticism and brute force. He doesn't have the footwork or jump shot that Kobe or Jordan have/had. Unless he really works on his shot i just don't see how he can keep up with this pace...Durant would be more likely because he is a pure shooter which bodes better against age.

6'8 250 never had a serious injury or any injuries at all. hes a freak i wouldn't be surprised if he kept his ath. for a while. btw lebron is one of the best spot up three point shooters at his position.

KobeOwnSU
02-01-2013, 12:14 AM
6'8 250 never had a serious injury or any injuries at all. hes a freak i wouldn't be surprised if he kept his ath. for a while. btw lebron is one of the best spot up three point shooters at his position.

Sure. But there aren't too many spot up 6'8 small forwards haha...And by the way, father time is undefeated.

sep11ie
02-01-2013, 12:15 AM
Careful Envy is a deadly sin.

Can't blame you for wanting to witness your team to win a ship instead of the lakers all the time :laugh2:


Better watching a "championship contender" with 4 all stars and a top five scorer assist leader not make the playoffs.

lakers4sho
02-01-2013, 12:16 AM
Hgh

sep11ie
02-01-2013, 12:16 AM
I got a suggestion: don't click on a thread that has Kobe in the title if you don't want to here about the Lakers and /or him.

Another suggestion. Lakers forum. Congrats, y'all are on DoMeFavors/DNewGuy/Knicks fans level.

bucketss
02-01-2013, 12:17 AM
Sure. But there aren't too many spot up 6'8 small forwards haha...And by the way, father time is undefeated.

stretch 4 possibly when he loses his ath. with good passing. actually hes a pretty good in general i believe hes shooting 40% from 3 this year.

KobeOwnSU
02-01-2013, 12:21 AM
stretch 4 possibly when he loses his ath. with good passing. actually hes a pretty good in general i believe hes shooting 40% from 3 this year.

You have to take into account that he gets more then average spacing on his jump shot because of his ability off the dribble. That gap will close as his athleticism advantage goes away. Then he will be played more straight up, we will see how good of a shooter he is then.

KobeOwnSU
02-01-2013, 12:22 AM
Another suggestion. Lakers forum. Congrats, y'all are on DoMeFavors/DNewGuy/Knicks fans level.

It's not just about the Lakers or Kobe. It's about a NBA record that involves players from other teams in the NBA.

ThaDubs
02-01-2013, 12:22 AM
Oh **** Kobe has more assists that a center! How impressive!

bucketss
02-01-2013, 12:30 AM
You have to take into account that he gets more then average spacing on his jump shot because of his ability off the dribble. That gap will close as his athleticism advantage goes away. Then he will be played more straight up, we will see how good of a shooter he is then.

true. lets see how he adapts.

lakers4sho
02-01-2013, 12:48 AM
Hgh

BayAreaDude420
02-01-2013, 12:57 AM
The amount of hate in this thread is insane. Kobe is going down as one of the greatest to ever play the game and he's had a sensational career. I'm happy to say I had the privilege of watching him play. Not too many players like him come around. Say what you want about Kobe, but nothing will change him from being a HOF'er and an NBA icon. BOOM.

b@llhog24
02-01-2013, 01:00 AM
Where's the "hate"?

amos1er
02-01-2013, 01:37 AM
Where's the "hate"?

lol @ a guy with the user name "b@llhog24" asking "where's the hate".

jsthornton7
02-01-2013, 01:37 AM
Better watching a "championship contender" with 4 all stars and a top five scorer assist leader not make the playoffs.

Which is still better than watching the Toronto Raptors.

LakersMaster24
02-01-2013, 01:47 AM
As l4s already said, people seem to disregard and completely ignore the fact that Bryant played in the triangle for the majority of his career. He was part of the Jackson system.

Lebron gets the ball and can dribble around for however long he wants with a bunch of 3pt shooters around him.

Shlumpledink
02-01-2013, 01:59 AM
It just shows how that title of being selfish is blown out of proportion by the media. Media likes extremes, so saying someone is kind of something doesn't make a good headline

Hawkeye15
02-01-2013, 02:19 AM
Impressive, but less so when you put it in perspective.

LAcowBOMBER
02-01-2013, 02:46 AM
Impressive, but less so when you put it in perspective.

Appropriate response by someone that thinks it is not that impressive

PSD: where anything Kobe or Lebron related turns into a borderline flamewar

Sactown
02-01-2013, 02:50 AM
Appropriate response by someone that thinks it is not that impressive

PSD: where anything Kobe or Lebron related turns into a borderline flamewar

The only other guard in the top 5 scoring played 12 seasons compared to his what? 17th 18th?
The accomplishment should be his scoring, not that he beat out the all time scoring player who's a center, in assists.

Lakers + Giants
02-01-2013, 03:04 AM
It honestly really isn't that impressive.

Why do laker fans have to get all butt hurt? Just because someone says it's really not that impressive doesn't mean they're hating. I understand why we get all the hate as laker fans. .

Chronz
02-01-2013, 03:08 AM
Cool?

Sactown
02-01-2013, 03:09 AM
It honestly really isn't that impressive.

Why do laker fans have to get all butt hurt? Just because someone says it's really not that impressive doesn't mean they're hating. I understand why we get all the hate as laker fans. .

This, the pride should be in the fact that he is the top 5 in scoring when so many players have laced up before him and played in a faster paced era..

Lakers + Giants
02-01-2013, 03:10 AM
This, the pride should be in the fact that he is the top 5 in scoring when so many players have laced up before him and played in a faster paced era..

What's really more impressive is the fact that kareem was the assist leader out of the top 5 while being a center. He did play like 20 years though.

Sactown
02-01-2013, 03:13 AM
What's really more impressive is the fact that kareem was the assist leader out of the top 5 while being a center. He did play like 20 years though.

It was an entirely different game back then... you think his scoring record is going to be hard to break, look at Wilts rebounding record.. Here's a hint... Tim Duncan is about half way to the rebounding record.

naps
02-01-2013, 03:14 AM
So what? 3 of them are big-men and Jordan is the only guard who has about the same assists (33 less) but played about 200 less games than Kobe. Not a big deal at all. This doesn't change the fact that he's the biggest ballhog in basketball history.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2013, 03:15 AM
Appropriate response by someone that thinks it is not that impressive

PSD: where anything Kobe or Lebron related turns into a borderline flamewar

no, it is impressive. But when you account for games played, minutes, position, all time numbers, and the style of the game, why should it be something we get a boner over?

Hawkeye15
02-01-2013, 03:18 AM
It honestly really isn't that impressive.

Why do laker fans have to get all butt hurt? Just because someone says it's really not that impressive doesn't mean they're hating. I understand why we get all the hate as laker fans. .

Rhetorical question here man. Not Laker fans, but insane Laker/Kobe fans need constant validation that their guy is an all timer, and need to press their agenda that some current younger player won't pass them in their minds, and he shall not be named.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2013, 03:19 AM
This, the pride should be in the fact that he is the top 5 in scoring when so many players have laced up before him and played in a faster paced era..

great point. Honestly. Kobe is an all timer, top 10 for me. But his fans are killing me.

naps
02-01-2013, 03:20 AM
It honestly really isn't that impressive.

Why do laker fans have to get all butt hurt? Just because someone says it's really not that impressive doesn't mean they're hating. I understand why we get all the hate as laker fans. .

This guy gets it. WoW!

Chronz
02-01-2013, 03:20 AM
You know whats really impressive? Check out what Kobe did on his 666th game.

Naps you gotta make a post soon, get off 5666 and try to get closer to 6666

tredigs
02-01-2013, 03:22 AM
Rhetorical question here man. Not Laker fans, but insane Laker/Kobe fans need constant validation that their guy is an all timer, and need to press their agenda that some current younger player won't pass them in their minds, and he shall not be named.

To be fair to Kobe, assuming that anonymous player stays healthy* he will pass him. Kobe's longevity at a high level is what's really impressive about him (and Duncan right now), even if he is doping (I'm sure PLENTY of others are + did as well), and that's no guarantee even for some of the seemingly sturdier guys in the game.

Wilt's and Kobe's APG for their career are damn close, that's interesting.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2013, 03:25 AM
To be fair to Kobe, assuming that anonymous player stays healthy*. His longevity at a high level is what's really impressive, even if he is doping (I'm sure PLENTY of others are + did as well), and that's no guarantee even for some of the seemingly sturdier guys in the game.

Wilt's and Kobe's APG for their career are damn close, that's interesting.

Kobe's longevity and continued top 3-5 ranking is why he is an all timer to me. It isn't his peak. Its the flat out fact that he has been a top 5 player for 15 years. That is nearly impossible for a perimeter player. I have never seen a player who prepares as well, or takes better care of himself.

beliges
02-01-2013, 03:45 AM
So what? 3 of them are big-men and Jordan is the only guard who has about the same assists (33 less) but played about 200 less games than Kobe. Not a big deal at all. This doesn't change the fact that he's the biggest ballhog in basketball history.

The biggest ballhog in bball history is mj (most shots per game). But if you win 5 and 6 titles while being a ballhog then.a ballhog is what you're supposed to be. There's a reason why Kobe is the greatest bball player of his era. What a waste it would be if Kobe didn't shoot as much.

Lakers + Giants
02-01-2013, 03:55 AM
Rhetorical question here man. Not Laker fans, but insane Laker/Kobe fans need constant validation that their guy is an all timer, and need to press their agenda that some current younger player won't pass them in their minds, and he shall not be named.

I've told you before how so many laker/kobe fans take it as a knock on kobe when people have something to say about others.

I don't get whats so bad about saying some other guy is better than kobe, it's not a knock on kobe it's just praising someone else. It's as if when someone else is praised they feel kobe isn't getting any attention.

Sort of reminds me of little kids when there is a newborn, they get all the attention and then someone else comes along and they feel like nobody cares about them. It's not like that at all, it's just acknowledgement for someone else. I know you're not really a kobe hater, I've seen you're post about lakers/kobe. You may not like him or the team but I've seen posts where you admit you respect them. Props on that.

PS: I know you said rhetorical, but hey, I responded :)

conway429
02-01-2013, 04:17 AM
the guy he passed averaged 3.6 assists per game, so Kobe's great and everything, but this one falls into the category of 'meaningless achievements'.

We all know Kobe doesn't pass. which is fine. Jordan didn't pass a whole lot either, but he averaged more assists than Kobe does and played in the triangle as well, so lets not act like this means Kobe is some great facilitator all of a sudden.

LakersMaster24
02-01-2013, 04:26 AM
The biggest ballhog in bball history is mj (most shots per game). But if you win 5 and 6 titles while being a ballhog then.a ballhog is what you're supposed to be. There's a reason why Kobe is the greatest bball player of his era. What a waste it would be if Kobe didn't shoot as much.

Don't respond to him. He is a useless troll. He will just call you a kobephile for anything positive you say regarding Kobe Bryant.

LAcowBOMBER
02-01-2013, 04:33 AM
The only other guard in the top 5 scoring played 12 seasons compared to his what? 17th 18th?
The accomplishment should be his scoring, not that he beat out the all time scoring player who's a center, in assists.

It's a milestone like 500 home runs or 10,000 or 20,000 points. I'm not saying it is ridiculously impressive, but he is still the first person with the points and assists that he has. It was threadworthy and I don't know why it had to turn into a kobe hate/love thread.

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 04:54 AM
It took 15 years for Kobe to do what LeBron did in 9 years.

Not to mention LeBron scored and rebounded more.

When will you guys accept the facts?

LeBron is roughly 21,000 points by the end of this season. 5 more seasons and he hits 31,000 while not even focusing on scoring! Imagine if he ballhogged all those shots back in Cleveland... Wow!

Chavacano
02-01-2013, 05:55 AM
Well, Kobe did start his career as a back-up singer...

LAcowBOMBER
02-01-2013, 06:01 AM
no, it is impressive. But when you account for games played, minutes, position, all time numbers, and the style of the game, why should it be something we get a boner over?

I never said it should be, but it is still a milestone. I never once said it was some incredible feat and that he is better than Lebron or Jordan. It is still impressive. All the OP did was mention he was in the top 5 in scoring and had the most assists of the group then because it is the NBA forum it turned into a Kobe/Lebron hate/love fest and a Kobe/Jordan hate/love fest.

LAcowBOMBER
02-01-2013, 06:02 AM
It took 15 years for Kobe to do what LeBron did in 9 years.

Not to mention LeBron scored and rebounded more.

When will you guys accept the facts?

LeBron is roughly 21,000 points by the end of this season. 5 more seasons and he hits 31,000 while not even focusing on scoring! Imagine if he ballhogged all those shots back in Cleveland... Wow!

Who are you talking to? There are only a small number of posters in here that have said Lebron won't get there and passed one day

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 06:16 AM
Who are you talking to? There are only a small number of posters in here that have said Lebron won't get there and passed one day

For every Kobe sucker, there are LeBron haters. Just thought I'd anger them a bit.

Kobe's assists aren't a result of him being a passer, it's a result of him playing so damn long. MJ retired earlier than he should because he could've broken Kareem's scoring record and much more.

LAcowBOMBER
02-01-2013, 06:23 AM
For every Kobe sucker, there are LeBron haters. Just thought I'd anger them a bit.

Kobe's assists aren't a result of him being a passer, it's a result of him playing so damn long. MJ retired earlier than he should because he could've broken Kareem's scoring record and much more.

I don't disagree with the part about MJ.

Kobe's assists are a result of him playing a long time and being an all around good player. To anyone that says Kobe is a chucker and won't share the ball, look back to when Shaq was on the team and see how often Kobe fed him in the post. There is also something to say for longevity. Averages are clearly more telling, but all-time numbers are part of determining how valuable a player was to a franchise for their career

And yes, I usually try to avoid Kobe or Lebron threads because they are just stupid. Intelligent conversation gets lost in all the flaming and baiting.

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 06:30 AM
I don't disagree with the part about MJ.

Kobe's assists are a result of him playing a long time and being an all around good player. To anyone that says Kobe is a chucker and won't share the ball, look back to when Shaq was on the team and see how often Kobe fed him in the post. There is also something to say for longevity. Averages are clearly more telling, but all-time numbers are part of determining how valuable a player was to a franchise for their career

And yes, I usually try to avoid Kobe or Lebron threads because they are just stupid. Intelligent conversation gets lost in all the flaming and baiting.

I believe the feud with Shaq and Kobe began because Kobe started taking more shots and Shaq didn't. But c'mon, are you really going to type all this stuff and say Kobe isn't a ballhogger? Grabbing 5 assists doesn't mean he isn't a ballhogger.

Ball hogging usually involves excessive shooting of difficult shots, especially when other players are in advantageous positions. For instance, a player with ball hogging tendencies may overlook or neglect a teammate who is open for a relatively easy shot, choosing instead to take a more difficult shot himself, often at the team's expense. Additionally, repeated ball hogging by a player can damage a team's cohesiveness and alienate him or her from his teammates, coaches, and fans.

-Grabbed from Wiki.

It's very true that Kobe alienated from his team by ballhogging.

LAcowBOMBER
02-01-2013, 06:41 AM
I believe the feud with Shaq and Kobe began because Kobe started taking more shots and Shaq didn't. But c'mon, are you really going to type all this stuff and say Kobe isn't a ballhogger? Grabbing 5 assists doesn't mean he isn't a ballhogger.

Ball hogging usually involves excessive shooting of difficult shots, especially when other players are in advantageous positions. For instance, a player with ball hogging tendencies may overlook or neglect a teammate who is open for a relatively easy shot, choosing instead to take a more difficult shot himself, often at the team's expense. Additionally, repeated ball hogging by a player can damage a team's cohesiveness and alienate him or her from his teammates, coaches, and fans.

-Grabbed from Wiki.

It's very true that Kobe alienated from his team by ballhogging.

Shaq and Kobe parted ways because Shaq thought Kobe shot too much because Shaq thought he was still the best player on that team. Kobe didn't want to hear it because he thought he was better and that Shaq did not work hard enough to stay in shape and quit in the finals against the Pistons. The Lakers chose to keep Kobe because he was the better player at that point and was younger. Kobe didn't pull that when he knew Shaq was better, but once he surpassed Shaq he wanted more shots. IMO it was justified. During that loss in the finals is when I as a Laker fan switched from Shaq being my favorite player to Kobe being my favorite player.

I was about as unbiased as you could get at that point, if anything I was biased towards Shaq, but realized it should have been Kobe's team. Shaq took a back seat to Wade and look what happened, he should have done the same with Kobe.

That said, he isn't a ball hog. He certainly takes some ill advised shots but its comical people act like it is a detriment to the team when he has 5 rings and has missed the playoffs once in the last 15 years or 12 years, whatever it is

hidalgo
02-01-2013, 08:07 AM
Michael avg more assists, so who cares. Kobe just played a ton more games

hidalgo
02-01-2013, 08:18 AM
Shaq and Kobe parted ways because Shaq thought Kobe shot too much because Shaq thought he was still the best player on that team. Kobe didn't want to hear it because he thought he was better and that Shaq did not work hard enough to stay in shape and quit in the finals against the Pistons. The Lakers chose to keep Kobe because he was the better player at that point and was younger. Kobe didn't pull that when he knew Shaq was better, but once he surpassed Shaq he wanted more shots. IMO it was justified. During that loss in the finals is when I as a Laker fan switched from Shaq being my favorite player to Kobe being my favorite player.

I was about as unbiased as you could get at that point, if anything I was biased towards Shaq, but realized it should have been Kobe's team. Shaq took a back seat to Wade and look what happened, he should have done the same with Kobe.

That said, he isn't a ball hog. He certainly takes some ill advised shots but its comical people act like it is a detriment to the team when he has 5 rings and has missed the playoffs once in the last 15 years or 12 years, whatever it isthat's a ridiculous time to switch from a shaq to kobe fan. look at the numbers each put up in that finals. Shaq was dominating, yet needed the ball more(kobe wouldn't feed him, instead insisted on fade away hero shot bricks). Kobe got shut down like a woman by their defense, while Shaq was abusing them. why can't Lakers fans admit what really happened in that finals?

Shaq 26.6 ppg 63%FG, 10.8 rpg, 1.6 apg
Kobe 22.6 ppg 38%FG, 2.8 rpg,, 4.4 apg

Shaquille shot the ball 84 times to Kobe's 113. dude would not stop shootin bricks instead of feeding the only guy killing the pistons for 63%fg. nobody else on the lakers even got near 40% except rick fox, who played a whopping 30 min total. it was obvious Kobe was refusing to give the ball up, & trying for finals mvp or bust(he'd rather lose than let shaq get another finals mvp). yea kobe was far from better than shaq at that point, & he hated it. he should have made sure to get shaq the ball more & have him avg about 32-35 ppg, & only shot when it was a great look(helping his fg%), for any chance of LA winning, but there was no way his was gonna sit by & watch shaq get another finals mvp. Shaquille was the 1 guy the pistons had no answer for. i'd have been furious at kobe if i was a lakers fan, but i loved what happened(basically throwing the finals because of ego). priceless finals lolz

LAcowBOMBER
02-01-2013, 08:30 AM
that's a ridiculous time to switch from a shaq to kobe fan. look at the numbers each put up in that finals. Shaq was dominating, yet needed the ball more(kobe wouldn't feed him, instead insisted on fade away hero shot bricks). Kobe got shut down like a woman by their defense, while Shaq was abusing them. why can't Lakers fans admit what really happened in that finals?

Shaq 26.6 ppg 63%FG, 10.8 rpg, 1.6 apg
Kobe 22.6 ppg 38%FG, 2.8 rpg,, 4.4 apg

Shaquille shot the ball 84 times to Kobe's 113. dude would not stop shootin bricks instead of feeding the only guy killing the pistons for 63%fg. nobody else on the lakers even got near 40% except rick fox, who played a whopping 30 min total. it was obvious Kobe was refusing to give the ball up, & trying for finals mvp or bust(he'd rather lose than let shaq get another finals mvp). yea kobe was far from better than shaq at that point, & he hated it

Go back and watch those games and tell me who quit, it wasn't Kobe.

Kobe had a better playoffs for the last 2 titles they won together minus the Finals which were basically just a formality with how much better the West was than the East back then. Shaq dominated scrub big men and Kobe still put up very respectable numbers in those finals. Shaq always gets the credit because he was the finals MVP which he deserved, but Kobe being the better player getting them there is overlooked. Even if you don't agree with that it is nowhere near the batman and robin team that people try to act like it was.

Also, look at their careers once Shaq left and you try to honestly tell me Shaq was better than Kobe at that point. It is seriously laughable. He took a backseat for Wade and look what happened.

hidalgo
02-01-2013, 08:38 AM
i've already went over all their playoff series in their 3 peat, & Shaq outplayed Kobe in all but maybe 2(but those to were debatable & super close). plus i just remember watching & seeing how Shaq dominated. he was hands down the best player in the nba at that point, & nobody debated it

when kobe decided he wanted to shoot a lot more, they got beat in 03 then the 04 finals. it just didn't make sense when Shaq shoots 60% to Kobe 45% at best, & it costs the lakers maybe 2 titles. but good, i'm glad it happened cause it's just more stains on kobe's legacy

and careers once Shaq left should be in Kobe's favor, he was way younger. Shaq only had 2 prime years left. so i don't understand that argument.

also, like the rest of the west weren't a formality in 2001. and in 2000 the Pacers gave them a really good finals. And Mutombo and Smits were far from scrub big men.

Jamiecballer
02-01-2013, 09:00 AM
you have to have a ball in your hand in order to get an assist. so although his career is undeniably impressive this particular stat certainly doesn't disprove the ball hog theory like OP was hoping.

LAcowBOMBER
02-01-2013, 09:12 AM
i've already went over all their playoff series in their 3 peat, & Shaq outplayed Kobe in all but maybe 2(but those to were debatable & super close). plus i just remember watching & seeing how Shaq dominated. he was hands down the best player in the nba at that point, & nobody debated it

when kobe decided he wanted to shoot a lot more, they got beat in 03 then the 04 finals. it just didn't make sense when Shaq shoots 60% to Kobe 45% at best, & it costs the lakers maybe 2 titles. but good, i'm glad it happened cause it's just more stains on kobe's legacy

and careers once Shaq left should be in Kobe's favor, he was way younger. Shaq only had 2 prime years left. so i don't understand that argument.

also, like the rest of the west weren't a formality in 2001. and in 2000 the Pacers gave them a really good finals. And Mutombo and Smits were far from scrub big men.

Mutombo was not the dominant force that he was in his early years and the first championship against the Pacers was close and was not a formality, agreed. I was referring to the last 2 in which I said Kobe was more important in the playoffs. The numbers are very close especially when you factor in the points Shaq got from hack a Shaq which really actually hurt the team because of his bad free throw shooting. He would get 5 extra point for shooting 50% from the line. Things like that need to be considered. Kobe was also the only real perimeter threat for the Lakers and Shaq would not have had the room to work that he did if it was not for Kobe and admittedly vice versa.

I'll keep saying it, Shaq and Kobe ruined Shaq and Kobe. They could not play together anymore, so who makes more sense to keep? Shaq had a problem with Kobe. He took a backseat to Wade, but wouldn't do the same with Kobe. Shaq just couldn't admit he was no longer better than Kobe and step to the side.

RLundi
02-01-2013, 09:54 AM
Good lord, certain Lakers fans just cannot seem to keep their pie holes off Kobe's knob.

RowBTrice
02-01-2013, 10:02 AM
3,000+ of them were to Shaq in the low post. Big accomplishment.

Slug3
02-01-2013, 11:07 AM
As l4s already said, people seem to disregard and completely ignore the fact that Bryant played in the triangle for the majority of his career. He was part of the Jackson system.

Lebron gets the ball and can dribble around for however long he wants with a bunch of 3pt shooters around him.

So Kobe was not allowed to pass the ball? Lets not forget Kobe played a good amount of years with one of the most dominate centers to ever play. I saw a lot of plays where he just dumped it to Shaq and Shaq did a drop step for a dunk.

LakersMaster24
02-01-2013, 11:26 AM
So Kobe was not allowed to pass the ball? Lets not forget Kobe played a good amount of years with one of the most dominate centers to ever play. I saw a lot of plays where he just dumped it to Shaq and Shaq did a drop step for a dunk.

Alright, so you don't think that playing in a system has no effect on the players productivity, and stats? What system did Lebron EVER play in? "Give Me The Ball and Go Stand Behind the 3PT Line System"? He never played with a dominant big that he had to pass to. Lebron was/is simply surrounded by 3PT shooters that he can drive and kick to. Who is the best shooter Kobe ever played with? Sasha Vujajic? Don't get me wrong this is not a knock on Lebron, I am just trying to point out how the style of your team's game can affect a player's stats.

Also, going with your logic Shaq's 20,000 points that mainly come off of wide open dunks shouldnt count either or they carry zero meaning?

Double standards.

Money_23
02-01-2013, 11:39 AM
Alright, so you don't think that playing in a system has no effect on the players productivity, and stats? What system did Lebron EVER play in? "Give Me The Ball and Go Stand Behind the 3PT Line System"? He never played with a dominant big that he had to pass to. Lebron was/is simply surrounded by 3PT shooters that he can drive and kick to. Who is the best shooter Kobe ever played with? Sasha Vujajic? Don't get me wrong this is not a knock on Lebron, I am just trying to point out how the style of your team's game can affect a player's stats.

Also, going with your logic Shaq's 20,000 points that mainly come off of wide open dunks shouldnt count either or they carry zero meaning?

Double standards.

epic ether. well done.

ManRam
02-01-2013, 11:42 AM
Wow! He has more assists than Kareem, Wilt and Karl!?!

WOW!

Jordan was a better passer too than Kobe. Kobe wins the career counting game, but Jordan was still better.


However, Kobe is a better passer than he often gets credit for. I don't think the triangle argument necessarily works, because it basically negated the need and use of a normal PG and Kobe did have the ball in his hands a tremendous amount of time. I mean, he is 4th all time in usage%...

He's a scorer, and scoring is what his team needs from him 80-90% of the time. Him not racking up 8+ assists a game isn't a reason to knock him.

HouRealCoach
02-01-2013, 11:45 AM
Does he average more than Jordan? Does he shoot the best percentages?

Kareem & Malone played with Stockton & Magic so why in the hell would they be leaders in assists?????? They get fed the damn ball playing with those two

& mention that he also shoots the worst percent out of the top 5 scorers all time

Tony_Starks
02-01-2013, 11:56 AM
At a certain point you might as well not even make Kobe threads because there's literally nothing he can do that people will deem "impressive." He's got multiple titles, awards, scored 81 and psd has yet to be impressed yet. He's easily the most discredited all time great I've ever seen....

ManRam
02-01-2013, 11:59 AM
At a certain point you might as well not even make Kobe threads because there's literally nothing he can do that people will deem "impressive." He's got multiple titles, awards, scored 81 and psd has yet to be impressed yet. He's easily the most discredited all time great I've ever seen....

There's plenty of things he does that impresses people.

Having more career assists than Kareem, Wilt, Karl and to an extent MJ isn't impressive, period :shrug:

It's not discrediting him, it's just being honest. It's like being impressed that Kareem, Wilt and Karl have more rebounds than Kobe.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-01-2013, 12:09 PM
Another suggestion. Lakers forum. Congrats, y'all are on DoMeFavors/DNewGuy/Knicks fans level.

Then don't watch.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-01-2013, 12:12 PM
lol @ a guy with the user name "b@llhog24" asking "where's the hate".

Lol this. Why do all these kids have to take a great accomplishment by Kobe and turn it into a negative... Only on psd

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-01-2013, 12:14 PM
The only other guard in the top 5 scoring played 12 seasons compared to his what? 17th 18th?
The accomplishment should be his scoring, not that he beat out the all time scoring player who's a center, in assists.

Jordan only played 12 seasons and kobe has played 18? :facepalm:

Tony_Starks
02-01-2013, 12:17 PM
There's plenty of things he does that impresses people.

Having more career assists than Kareem, Wilt, Karl and to an extent MJ isn't impressive, period :shrug:

It's not discrediting him, it's just being honest. It's like being impressed that Kareem, Wilt and Karl have more rebounds than Kobe.

For one the mere longevity is impressive in itself. For two just like those other players he's not point guard but a primary scorer so to rack up more assist than them is a big deal. Also just like MJ he spent a lot time in the triangle which doesn't lend itself to huge assist for guards. The way the ball swings around when the triangle is running correctly a lot of times Kobe or MJ would get the hockey assist.

Taking all that into consideration his accomplishment seems fairly impressive to me.....

sixer04fan
02-01-2013, 12:25 PM
So what you're basically saying is that among the top 5 ball hogs of all time, he has the most assists? And three of them are PF/C's and the other one had a much shorter career than Kobe? And this proves what?

John Walls Era
02-01-2013, 12:40 PM
It would be a PROBLEM if big men have more assists than a SG.

Chronz
02-01-2013, 12:41 PM
Shaq and Kobe parted ways because Shaq thought Kobe shot too much because Shaq thought he was still the best player on that team. Kobe didn't want to hear it because he thought he was better and that Shaq did not work hard enough to stay in shape and quit in the finals against the Pistons. The Lakers chose to keep Kobe because he was the better player at that point and was younger. Kobe didn't pull that when he knew Shaq was better, but once he surpassed Shaq he wanted more shots. IMO it was justified. During that loss in the finals is when I as a Laker fan switched from Shaq being my favorite player to Kobe being my favorite player.

I was about as unbiased as you could get at that point, if anything I was biased towards Shaq, but realized it should have been Kobe's team. Shaq took a back seat to Wade and look what happened, he should have done the same with Kobe.

That said, he isn't a ball hog. He certainly takes some ill advised shots but its comical people act like it is a detriment to the team when he has 5 rings and has missed the playoffs once in the last 15 years or 12 years, whatever it is
Kobe was never better than Shaq during their stay together. I wouldn't say Kobe passed Shaq until his 2nd year in Miami.

And it seems kind of odd to become a Kobe fan during that time when you consider how pathetic he looked in the Finals and how dominant Shaq was (Although he wasn't perfect and clearly declining). Your a true Kobe fan if you kept with him during that time with Phils tell all book basically blasting him.

b@llhog24
02-01-2013, 12:45 PM
lol @ a guy with the user name "b@llhog24" asking "where's the hate".

So you have no proof? Typical.


It honestly really isn't that impressive.

Why do laker fans have to get all butt hurt? Just because someone says it's really not that impressive doesn't mean they're hating. I understand why we get all the hate as laker fans. .

Now you understand why I act the way I do on here sometimes.


The biggest ballhog in bball history is mj (most shots per game). But if you win 5 and 6 titles while being a ballhog then.a ballhog is what you're supposed to be. There's a reason why Kobe is the greatest bball player of his era. What a waste it would be if Kobe didn't shoot as much.

MJ is a ballhog, but Kobe's a bigger ballhog.


It's a milestone like 500 home runs or 10,000 or 20,000 points. I'm not saying it is ridiculously impressive, but he is still the first person with the points and assists that he has. It was threadworthy and I don't know why it had to turn into a kobe hate/love thread.

Because a known Kobephile posted this in other to slob on Kobe's knob some more.


Wow! He has more assists than Kareem, Wilt and Karl!?!

WOW!

Jordan was a better passer too than Kobe. Kobe wins the career counting game, but Jordan was still better.


However, Kobe is a better passer than he often gets credit for. I don't think the triangle argument necessarily works, because it basically negated the need and use of a normal PG and Kobe did have the ball in his hands a tremendous amount of time. I mean, he is 4th all time in usage%...

He's a scorer, and scoring is what his team needs from him 80-90% of the time. Him not racking up 8+ assists a game isn't a reason to knock him.

Not sure why people don't get this.


At a certain point you might as well not even make Kobe threads because there's literally nothing he can do that people will deem "impressive." He's got multiple titles, awards, scored 81 and psd has yet to be impressed yet. He's easily the most discredited all time great I've ever seen....

His 81 was impressive, I just think his 62 in 3 quarters was more impressive. :shrug:


Lol this. Why do all these kids have to take a great accomplishment by Kobe and turn it into a negative... Only on psd

How did "I" turn it into a negative? :confushed:


Jordan only played 12 seasons and kobe has played 18? :facepalm:

Because that obviously detracted from his argument. :clap:

Chronz
02-01-2013, 12:45 PM
Also, look at their careers once Shaq left and you try to honestly tell me Shaq was better than Kobe at that point. It is seriously laughable. He took a backseat for Wade and look what happened.
How exactly are you remembering those moments because I fail to see how Kobe missing the playoffs and posting horrendous numbers by superstar standards and Shaq playing like an MVP and turning the Heat around, means Kobe was the better player. Shaq took a backseat the following year.

But I find it hypocritical that you want people to remember what Kobe did prior to the Finals yet completely disregard Shaq's domination of Detroit to get Miami there. Kobe was likely better at that point IMO but they are similar situations

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-01-2013, 12:49 PM
It took 15 years for Kobe to do what LeBron did in 9 years.

Not to mention LeBron scored and rebounded more.

When will you guys accept the facts?

LeBron is roughly 21,000 points by the end of this season. 5 more seasons and he hits 31,000 while not even focusing on scoring! Imagine if he ballhogged all those shots back in Cleveland... Wow!

It also took lebron 9 years to get a ring while Kobe did it in 4.

Slug3
02-01-2013, 12:51 PM
Alright, so you don't think that playing in a system has no effect on the players productivity, and stats? What system did Lebron EVER play in? "Give Me The Ball and Go Stand Behind the 3PT Line System"? He never played with a dominant big that he had to pass to. Lebron was/is simply surrounded by 3PT shooters that he can drive and kick to. Who is the best shooter Kobe ever played with? Sasha Vujajic? Don't get me wrong this is not a knock on Lebron, I am just trying to point out how the style of your team's game can affect a player's stats.

Also, going with your logic Shaq's 20,000 points that mainly come off of wide open dunks shouldnt count either or they carry zero meaning?

Double standards.

Kobe wasn't surrounded by 3 point shooters? Did he not play with Robert Horry, Rick Fox, Fisher and even Devon George who had a few good years. If you can't remember them then you don't remember Kobe with those lakers. You are bringing up players from a crappy team.

Slug3
02-01-2013, 12:53 PM
It also took lebron 9 years to get a ring while Kobe did it in 4.

The ring argument again? It's like every fact is out there and at your last ditch effort you go back to the ring argument because you have nothing left.

Chronz
02-01-2013, 12:56 PM
It also took lebron 9 years to get a ring while Kobe did it in 4.

One is HEAVILY reliant on the team. The other is HEAVILY reliant on the individual. This is as relevant as pointing out how long it took MJ to win a ring in comparison to Kobe.

Chronz
02-01-2013, 01:00 PM
Kobe wasn't surrounded by 3 point shooters? Did he not play with Robert Horry, Rick Fox, Fisher and even Devon George who had a few good years. If you can't remember them then you don't remember Kobe with those lakers. You are bringing up players from a crappy team.

Dont listen to them. The triangle is the Kobe system. The year Phil and Shaq left, the Lakers ran a basic spread offense with Kobe being the primary playmaker. He would have led the league in turnovers if not for replacement coach Hambell returning to the triangle mid-season. His passing the rest of the year was more precise and the rest of his efficiency returned.

So when you see people mention the triangle, tell them it doesn't excuse his lack of passing efficiency in comparison to whoever they are comparing (no doubt LeBron, Wade and back in the day it was Tmac)

So yea, if Kobe didn't play in the triangle he could have averaged more assists, but his passing efficiency would be putrid. Kobe was at his best back then when he could attack from the wing without worrying about expending energy getting his team into sets and creating for everyone. I always thought it was because he has iffy hands and much of his playmaking is centered around his threat as a scorer.

TheNumber37
02-01-2013, 01:05 PM
when you have the ball that much, you sometimes have to pass. playing with a big like Shaq helps a lot of those assists come faster. Jordan didn't play with a big like that. he is also the all time leader in assists for the bulls, call me when Kobe breaks the Lakers record. the other 3 guys were bigs with talent around them. Malone and Stockton passed willingly btw each other.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-01-2013, 01:14 PM
The ring argument again? It's like every fact is out there and at your last ditch effort you go back to the ring argument because you have nothing left.

How is what I stated not a fact?

ManRam
02-01-2013, 01:19 PM
It also took lebron 9 years to get a ring while Kobe did it in 4.

You think that would be the case if you swapped their careers...meaning Kobe got the Cavs and one all-star and one player ever with a 20+ PER, and LeBron got Shaq, Phil and so on?


Rings matter. But you have to put it in context...or it means nothing.

ManRam
02-01-2013, 01:22 PM
For one the mere longevity is impressive in itself. For two just like those other players he's not point guard but a primary scorer so to rack up more assist than them is a big deal. Also just like MJ he spent a lot time in the triangle which doesn't lend itself to huge assist for guards. The way the ball swings around when the triangle is running correctly a lot of times Kobe or MJ would get the hockey assist.

Taking all that into consideration his accomplishment seems fairly impressive to me.....

What is the accomplishment we're talking about? Having more career assists than some great big men scorers? Having more career assists than Jordan?

That's hardly an accomplishment worth bragging about.

I'm not trying to bash Kobe here...it's just we're talking about some "great accomplishment" that, well, really means nothing.

Slug3
02-01-2013, 01:24 PM
How is what I stated not a fact?

It's a fact. But you were using it to say Kobe had/has a better career cause of it. So we must then think Horry has 8 rings so he must be better.

Kobe had a lot of help in having a top all time center on his team and perhaps the best coach ever.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-01-2013, 01:44 PM
It's a fact. But you were using it to say Kobe had/has a better career cause of it. So we must then think Horry has 8 rings so he must be better.

Kobe had a lot of help in having a top all time center on his team and perhaps the best coach ever.

The Robert horry argument is dumb.
I agree Kobe has had some good teams, but lets not act like the heat don't have to best team in basketball. Lebron had to jump ship to an outstanding team to win his first ring.

RLundi
02-01-2013, 01:52 PM
Then don't watch.

Shut your mouth.

Lakerfan In NY
02-01-2013, 02:05 PM
You think that would be the case if you swapped their careers...meaning Kobe got the Cavs and one all-star and one player ever with a 20+ PER, and LeBron got Shaq, Phil and so on?


Rings matter. But you have to put it in context...or it means nothing.

I agree but your not putting this in context either. For you to say its not an impressive accomplishment is mind blowing if you put it into "context" He's a non-point guard. A "shoot 1st player." Alittle under 600 & he'll be the high assist leader of any non point guard in NBA history. Ok I get it, he played with Shaq & Gasol. But he also played with Kwame Brown, Smush parker & luke walton. But his assist level pretty much stayed the same.

I think your dislike for him clouds the meaning of this "accomplishment." This is a great accomplishment by a great player. The same way (if healthy) it will be a great accomplishment when LBJ breaks it. Just take it for what it is & stop trying to find ways to convince yourself its meaningless when it truly isn't.

LoveMeOrHateMe
02-01-2013, 02:05 PM
Lebrons just getting started, he's got a good 6 more productive seasons before he will start to decline in the least bit. He's basically entering his prime right about now, no way he's declining when he reaches 30.

No trust me he's got 2-3 more great seasons in him, then he'll be decking once he hits 30 he'll still be a top 5 player just not as great as he is now, his playmaking ability will really keep him on top

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-01-2013, 02:10 PM
Shut your mouth.

There you are sweet lips . How's my favorite girl doing?

naps
02-01-2013, 02:12 PM
The biggest ballhog in bball history is mj (most shots per game). But if you win 5 and 6 titles while being a ballhog then.a ballhog is what you're supposed to be. There's a reason why Kobe is the greatest bball player of his era. What a waste it would be if Kobe didn't shoot as much.

Lakers would have won 8/9 titles if Kobe was not a ballhog. He held them back. Haven't you seen how he took you guys out of the playoffs by scoring 30+ a game leading the league in FGA? Now all of a sudden, he's sharing the ball and Lakers starting to look like the contender they were supposed to be?

bluefire7002
02-01-2013, 02:15 PM
No trust me he's got 2-3 more great seasons in him, then he'll be decking once he hits 30 he'll still be a top 5 player just not as great as he is now, his playmaking ability will really keep him on top

Yea I find it funny how people just assume Lebron is going to keep doing what he's doing in 4-5 years. Or how every single Kobe thread you can't get through the first page without seeing Lebron's name. It's always the same posters hating on Kobe, so that should tell you something... Same goes the other way, there are always the same posters who worship him.

It really is hypocritical to be saying "not impressive, Lebron is going to do it sooner" wtf?? So you are not impressed by a player who has actually achieved this, yet you are more impressed by Lebron, ASSUMING he will do this when he still has 1/3rd the way to get there (points wise). Although he's not close to it yet... That's just awesome logic. To be honest I think Durant will be the one to have more points than Lebron and maybe even Kobe. The guy is only 24 and has way better scoring skills than Lebron.

Money_23
02-01-2013, 02:19 PM
Lakers would have won 8/9 titles if Kobe was not a ballhog. He held them back. Haven't you seen how he took you guys out of the playoffs by scoring 30+ a game leading the league in FGA? Now all of a sudden, he's sharing the ball and Lakers starting to look like the contender they were supposed to be?

no offense, but isn't this just a random hypothetical in retrospect? Couldn't you say this for alot of past players as well?

Tony_Starks
02-01-2013, 02:23 PM
Lakers would have won 8/9 titles if Kobe was not a ballhog. He held them back. Haven't you seen how he took you guys out of the playoffs by scoring 30+ a game leading the league in FGA? Now all of a sudden, he's sharing the ball and Lakers starting to look like the contender they were supposed to be?


You're right, he really held the Lakers back. They should've won like 8 championships straight. Not just a mere 5 championships in 7 finals........

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 02:41 PM
For those saying they were just appreciating Kobe, stop the crap! We all know you guys are just using that as an excuse to elevate your argument and stop saying he isn't a ballhog. Face it, he's a ballhog. You guys think ballhog is all about taking the ball away from your team, it's not just that! It's when you take a terrible shot when your teammate has a better position to score. And then you guys bring up "Who did Kobe have on his team to pass to?" Who did LeBron have? The reason why the Cavs were so good was because LeBron made it good. He had that many assists because he gave his teammates the ultimate chance to score. Look at his teammates now... They are all bench players!

tredigs
02-01-2013, 02:49 PM
For those saying they were just appreciating Kobe, stop the crap! We all know you guys are just using that as an excuse to elevate your argument and stop saying he isn't a ballhog. Face it, he's a ballhog. You guys think ballhog is all about taking the ball away from your team, it's not just that! It's when you take a terrible shot when your teammate has a better position to score. And then you guys bring up "Who did Kobe have on his team to pass to?" Who did LeBron have? The reason why the Cavs were so good was because LeBron made it good. He had that many assists because he gave his teammates the ultimate chance to score. Look at his teammates now... They are all bench players!

Deep breaths, deep breaths. We're gonna make it through this...

still1ballin
02-01-2013, 02:51 PM
So how long until Lebron shatters this record too?

Lebron is better. just accept it, laker fans.

Well, Kobe is gonna shatter Jordans record and Lebron is gonna shatter Kobes record so by your reasoning Lebron will be the GOAT over Jordan?

Lakerfan In NY
02-01-2013, 02:59 PM
For those saying they were just appreciating Kobe, stop the crap! We all know you guys are just using that as an excuse to elevate your argument and stop saying he isn't a ballhog. Face it, he's a ballhog. You guys think ballhog is all about taking the ball away from your team, it's not just that! It's when you take a terrible shot when your teammate has a better position to score. And then you guys bring up "Who did Kobe have on his team to pass to?" Who did LeBron have? The reason why the Cavs were so good was because LeBron made it good. He had that many assists because he gave his teammates the ultimate chance to score. Look at his teammates now... They are all bench players!

Hmmm...Then...all the players Kobe played with are bench players now...I'm just saying...

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 03:06 PM
[/B]

Hmmm...Then...all the players Kobe played with are bench players now...I'm just saying...

For around three years, Kobe cried and demanded a trade. For around seven years, LeBron stuck it out and never cried. He made the best of his time there regardless of what happened. Kobe on the other hand isolated himself from his entire team because they weren't on his "level."

beliges
02-01-2013, 03:07 PM
The biggest ballhog in bball history is mj (most shots per game). But if you win 5 and 6 titles while being a ballhog then.a ballhog is what you're supposed to be. There's a reason why Kobe is the greatest bball player of his era. What a waste it would be if Kobe didn't shoot as much.

Lakers would have won 8/9 titles if Kobe was not a ballhog. He held them back. Haven't you seen how he took you guys out of the playoffs by scoring 30+ a game leading the league in FGA? Now all of a sudden, he's sharing the ball and Lakers starting to look like the contender they were supposed to be?

Well the fact that no superstar in the history of the modern NBA era hasn't even come close to 8/9 titles and the fact that you think Kobe should have won 8/9 says a lot. Kobe won 5 titles as a "ballhog" means Kobe being a "ballhog" equals success. MJ was the biggest ballhog ever as he averaged the most shots per game but this too equaled success. When you have a player as good as mj or Kobe its a waste if they don't shoot a lot. Its funny you're criticizing Kobe for his style of play when that style of play proved to be the most dominant of his era. I really just don't understand the critics. I think you might've been happier if Kobe sacrificed winning for being more of a passer. But this isn't a children's YMCA league. The NBA is all about winning championships. Nothing else matters and Kobe was and is the most dominant winner since magic.

beliges
02-01-2013, 03:13 PM
It also took lebron 9 years to get a ring while Kobe did it in 4.

You think that would be the case if you swapped their careers...meaning Kobe got the Cavs and one all-star and one player ever with a 20+ PER, and LeBron got Shaq, Phil and so on?


Rings matter. But you have to put it in context...or it means nothing.

Rings certainly matter and now LBJ has joined dwade and.bosh and much like Kobe, has the talent around him to win multiple titles. If he's as good or better than Kobe, he should be able.to win another 3 or 4 titles. The lebron v Kobe argument has a very simple.solution. if lebron can get to 5 titles, considering he is on probably the most talented team in the league, then the argument will make sense. No more "no talent" excuse for LBJ. No reason lebron shouldn't get to 4 or 5 titles if Kobe did it.

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 03:15 PM
Rings certainly matter and now LBJ has joined dwade and.bosh and much like Kobe, has the talent around him to win multiple titles. If he's as good or better than Kobe, he should be able.to win another 3 or 4 titles. The lebron v Kobe argument has a very simple.solution. if lebron can get to 5 titles, considering he is on probably the most talented team in the league, then the argument will make sense. No more "no talent" excuse for LBJ. No reason lebron shouldn't get to 4 or 5 titles if Kobe did it.

Prime Shaq does not equate to an aging Wade and Bosh. Playing with prime Shaq along with a prime top 5 player is an instant championship freebie.

Lakerfan In NY
02-01-2013, 03:35 PM
For around three years, Kobe cried and demanded a trade. For around seven years, LeBron stuck it out and never cried. He made the best of his time there regardless of what happened. Kobe on the other hand isolated himself from his entire team because they weren't on his "level."

Actually, it was more like 11 years with the Lakers & demanded a trade in 2007 but stayed. While, LBJ took his talents to south beach & left the Cavs high & dry. They could have traded him & got a ***** load of talent & picks but all indictations were he was heading back to his home town & more money.

Ever notice when Kobe isn't happy things seem to get fixed rather quickly...& always for the better...Management made the right decision (unlike the Cavs) & got rid of a aging HOF...Kobe demands for help...enter Gasol & Poof...2 championship out of three tries. LBJ shuts his mouth than leaves...Kobe b*t*h & stays.

JasonJohnHorn
02-01-2013, 03:39 PM
Yeah, but it took him 1200 games to do what Jordan did in 1072.

Jordan is still the better play maker on the list. As for the other guys, they were power players (centers and forwards), so obviously they don't have as many assists. Dr. J scored fewer points but has more assists (including ABA numbers). And he's miles behind Oscar for assists, and Oscar played far fewer games, while also averaging about as many points a game.

Kobe is a scorer. It is impressive that he's gotten as many assists as he has, but at the same time there were several guys who scored as much and were better play makers, Kobe has just played more games than them.

Kobe also has the worst FG% among those guys, and the least amount of rebounds among them as well. And by far the fewest blocks, and the fewest steals for whose steals were recorded every season (Kareem and Wilt played back when steals weren't recorded).

DreamShaker
02-01-2013, 03:42 PM
High usage guys tend to have a good deal of assists. Kobe is a pretty good passer but trying to say scoring in not his first and second option, that is not gonna work. Iverson and Westbrook, who are regularly regarded as ball hogs, all had/have high assist averages. Kobe is a good passer when he wants to be, though. Especially with big guys.

Lakerfan In NY
02-01-2013, 03:46 PM
Prime Shaq does not equate to an aging Wade and Bosh. Playing with prime Shaq along with a prime top 5 player is an instant championship freebie.

What?! Wade was 30! Bosh was like 28! Who's not in their prime?

As many times I hear peeople arguing that Wade was better than Kobe thats not an excuse. So does that means LBJ champinship was a feebie? Between having 2 other top 5 players in the league on his team & a shorten season (you thought I forgot) Does LBJ have a 1/2 of a championship.

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 04:15 PM
What?! Wade was 30! Bosh was like 28! Who's not in their prime?

As many times I hear peeople arguing that Wade was better than Kobe thats not an excuse. So does that means LBJ champinship was a feebie? Between having 2 other top 5 players in the league on his team & a shorten season (you thought I forgot) Does LBJ have a 1/2 of a championship.

I said aging Wade, not Bosh. Also, you're telling me Wade is in his prime? Lmao. Shaq in his prime would dominate Bosh and this league. You're not making much sense. I think you forget how good Shaq was. He is the most dominating player in NBA history.

bluefire7002
02-01-2013, 04:17 PM
What?! Wade was 30! Bosh was like 28! Who's not in their prime?

As many times I hear peeople arguing that Wade was better than Kobe thats not an excuse. So does that means LBJ champinship was a feebie? Between having 2 other top 5 players in the league on his team & a shorten season (you thought I forgot) Does LBJ have a 1/2 of a championship.

Haha.. It's funny when they all came together they were all in their Prime. All of a sudden they win a championship with Lebron being the MVP and finals MVP, and people claim he "carried" an aging Heat team :laugh2:

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 04:18 PM
Actually, it was more like 11 years with the Lakers & demanded a trade in 2007 but stayed. While, LBJ took his talents to south beach & left the Cavs high & dry. They could have traded him & got a ***** load of talent & picks but all indictations were he was heading back to his home town & more money.

Ever notice when Kobe isn't happy things seem to get fixed rather quickly...& always for the better...Management made the right decision (unlike the Cavs) & got rid of a aging HOF...Kobe demands for help...enter Gasol & Poof...2 championship out of three tries. LBJ shuts his mouth than leaves...Kobe b*t*h & stays.

How is it 11 years? From 2004-2007, Kobe was busy crying and demanded a trade if he didn't get support. He stayed because they went and got Pau Gasol to stop his crying. LBJ took his talents to Miami to compete with the other elite teams. Boston had one, Spurs had one, LAL had one, there is no such thing as one player carrying his team against a superteam. People just recognize Miami as the "superteam" of today because they have the biggest names on that team.

You're pretty damn stupid. LeBron stayed 7 years, never complained. He always appreciated his teammates and never insulted them like your boy Kobe. You said Kobe demanded for help? Lmao, he cried twice in his career for not wanting to play for losing teams!

bluefire7002
02-01-2013, 04:18 PM
I said aging Wade, not Bosh. Also, you're telling me Wade is in his prime? Lmao. Shaq in his prime would dominate Bosh and this league. You're not making much sense. I think you forget how good Shaq was. He is the most dominating player in NBA history.

Actually most Heat fans will tell you that Wade is just recovering from injuries... from last year. Age 30 is actually most people's back end of their Prime too.

mngopher35
02-01-2013, 04:20 PM
What?! Wade was 30! Bosh was like 28! Who's not in their prime?

As many times I hear peeople arguing that Wade was better than Kobe thats not an excuse. So does that means LBJ champinship was a feebie? Between having 2 other top 5 players in the league on his team & a shorten season (you thought I forgot) Does LBJ have a 1/2 of a championship.

I think that was only in response to the guy saying Lebron needs 5 rings to be on Kobes level. Kobe has been on a team with significantly more talent than lebron had on the Cavs for 13ish years (he was very young for some though) and wasnt even the best player on his team for 3 of the titles. Lebron will not have the same opportunity because wade is aging and won't last another 8 years.

Also Bosh was injured for part of the playoffs and wade was much more like a sidekick than a superstar last year. Compare Pau's play in the playoffs the two years the lakers won to Wade's last year and I'd take pau over wade (not in general just the playoffs as wade clearly wasn't the same). Lebron was clearly the best player on the team which is only true for Kobe twice (you can argue 2001 was close, but so was 2010 then). I don't understand people trying to discredit Lebron's ring.

ManRam
02-01-2013, 04:20 PM
[/B]

I agree but your not putting this in context either. For you to say its not an impressive accomplishment is mind blowing if you put it into "context" He's a non-point guard. A "shoot 1st player." Alittle under 600 & he'll be the high assist leader of any non point guard in NBA history. Ok I get it, he played with Shaq & Gasol. But he also played with Kwame Brown, Smush parker & luke walton. But his assist level pretty much stayed the same.

I think your dislike for him clouds the meaning of this "accomplishment." This is a great accomplishment by a great player. The same way (if healthy) it will be a great accomplishment when LBJ breaks it. Just take it for what it is & stop trying to find ways to convince yourself its meaningless when it truly isn't.

I'm not saying 5 rings isn't a great accomplishment.

I'm saying leading Karl, Kareem, Wilt and MJ in assists isn't a great accomplishment. That's what this thread is about, correct?

Money_23
02-01-2013, 04:21 PM
Lebron is very very good, but all this d1ck riding need to stop. Lebron has 2 top 10 players as teammates, then all of a sudden they are garbage right when the Heat wins in 2012. :laugh2:

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 04:22 PM
Actually most Heat fans will tell you that Wade is just recovering from injuries... from last year. Age 30 is actually most people's back end of their Prime too.

So what are the excuses for last year NBA playoffs when LeBron had to carry his team with Wade struggling and Bosh being injured? You're telling me a 30 year old Wade and Chris Bosh could stop a prime Shaq?

Money_23
02-01-2013, 04:23 PM
So what are the excuses for last year NBA playoffs when LeBron had to carry his team with Wade struggling and Bosh being injured? You're telling me a 30 year old Wade and Chris Bosh could stop a prime Shaq?

no one can stop prime Shaq but Shaq certainly cannot stop Wade AND Bosh, or any 2 players for that matter.

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 04:24 PM
no one can stop prime Shaq but Shaq certainly cannot stop Wade AND Bosh, or any 2 players for that matter.

Let me put it into another perspective.

Would you rather have LeBron+30 year Wade, and Bosh, or LeBron with prime Shaq?
I think the answer is visible.

ManRam
02-01-2013, 04:26 PM
Lebron is very very good, but all this d1ck riding need to stop. Lebron has 2 top 10 players as teammates, then all of a sudden they are garbage right when the Heat wins in 2012. :laugh2:

I mean, they aren't garbage...but Wade played arguably the worst basketball of his career in the 2012 playoffs (aside from his rookie year), and Bosh missed some significant time.

If anyone is calling them "garbage" they are being obnoxious...but he really did more of the work than he otherwise should have had to.

Money_23
02-01-2013, 04:27 PM
Let me put it into another perspective.

Would you rather have LeBron+30 year Wade, and Bosh, or LeBron with prime Shaq?
I think the answer is visible.

who are the other 2-3 starters for each team?

Money_23
02-01-2013, 04:29 PM
I mean, they aren't garbage...but Wade played arguably the worst basketball of his career in the 2012 playoffs (aside from his rookie year), and Bosh missed some significant time.

If anyone is calling them "garbage" they are being obnoxious...but he really did more of the work than he otherwise should have had to.

he had one of the 10 greatest playoff runs in history, but I see alot of people giving him more credit than what he accomplished, in terms of context.

envymamba24
02-01-2013, 04:33 PM
Or Laker's fans could stop filling up the NBA forum with Lakers garbage nobody would hate.

What? Lol it was legitimate post about a top 5 scorer currently in the league. Your right though, that's not relevant to the NBA forum

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 04:38 PM
who are the other 2-3 starters for each team?

That's irrelevant considering we're comparing Wade and Bosh to prime Shaq.

Tony_Starks
02-01-2013, 04:42 PM
For those just goining us it wasn't the Laker fans that brought up Lebron. Started off giving props to a historic accomplishment and of course turned into "So what, Lebrons better...............

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 04:44 PM
For those just goining us it wasn't the Laker fans that brought up Lebron. Started off giving props to a historic accomplishment and of course turned into "So what, Lebrons better...............

For every Kobe thread, there are LeBron fans. Same the other way.

odiz
02-01-2013, 04:51 PM
Allen Iverson averaged 8 assists a game in the same year that he took 24+ shots a game. Not saying Kobe is but you can definitely be a ball hog and still rack up assists.

Lakerfan In NY
02-01-2013, 05:04 PM
I said aging Wade, not Bosh. Also, you're telling me Wade is in his prime? Lmao. Shaq in his prime would dominate Bosh and this league. You're not making much sense. I think you forget how good Shaq was. He is the most dominating player in NBA history.

So you think Shaq was in his prime during the last two Lakers championship & not an aging Shaq? Hmmm.

Baller1
02-01-2013, 05:17 PM
How can Laker fans complain about getting bashed, and then proceed to post garbage like this in the NBA forum?

Logical.

RLundi
02-01-2013, 05:19 PM
Lebron is very very good, but all this d1ck riding need to stop. Lebron has 2 top 10 players as teammates, then all of a sudden they are garbage right when the Heat wins in 2012. :laugh2:

Idk anyone with an IQ above 40 that would argue Bosh is a top 10 player. Even Wade is iffy on that aspect.

Lakerfan In NY
02-01-2013, 05:19 PM
How is it 11 years? From 2004-2007, Kobe was busy crying and demanded a trade if he didn't get support. He stayed because they went and got Pau Gasol to stop his crying. LBJ took his talents to Miami to compete with the other elite teams. Boston had one, Spurs had one, LAL had one, there is no such thing as one player carrying his team against a superteam. People just recognize Miami as the "superteam" of today because they have the biggest names on that team.

You're pretty damn stupid. LeBron stayed 7 years, never complained. He always appreciated his teammates and never insulted them like your boy Kobe. You said Kobe demanded for help? Lmao, he cried twice in his career for not wanting to play for losing teams!

Thats your agrument? He asked to be traded. Hell, so did Kareem,Chris Paul, Melo, Howard, VC & Magic. If we are on that topic. Jordan asked for everyone to be traded & the coach fired to get a better team...I respect them for that. Instead of running & jumping on some other superstars team...

So you proved LBJ is ok with losing & Kobe's not....Great.

RLundi
02-01-2013, 05:20 PM
What?! Wade was 30! Bosh was like 28! Who's not in their prime?

As many times I hear peeople arguing that Wade was better than Kobe thats not an excuse. So does that means LBJ champinship was a feebie? Between having 2 other top 5 players in the league on his team & a shorten season (you thought I forgot) Does LBJ have a 1/2 of a championship.

Wow, top 5 player? This couldn't be more incorrect.

RLundi
02-01-2013, 05:23 PM
Idk anyone with an IQ above 40 that would argue Bosh is a top 10 player.


What?! Wade was 30! Bosh was like 28! Who's not in their prime?

Between having 2 other top 5 players in the league on his team & a shorten season (you thought I forgot) Does LBJ have a 1/2 of a championship.

I stand corrected.

Lakerfan In NY
02-01-2013, 05:25 PM
I'm not saying 5 rings isn't a great accomplishment.

I'm saying leading Karl, Kareem, Wilt and MJ in assists isn't a great accomplishment. [B]That's what this thread is about, correct?[/

Funny, that what the thread was suppose to be about. Lol. I agree. By itself not that great but in context of career...pretty good. A great scorer who passed more than all the other great scorers per say.

Lakerfan In NY
02-01-2013, 05:29 PM
Wow, top 5 player? This couldn't be more incorrect.

Sorry, let me correct myself top 5 at there position.

RLundi
02-01-2013, 05:37 PM
Sorry, let me correct myself top 5 at there position.

Even of you did initially mean that, (jury is still out) the past couple years Duncan, Dirk, Randolph, KG, Blake, Love and Aldridge have all been arguably better than Bosh since he's joined the Heat. You can even throw A'mare in there if you want to be daring. I'll give you Wade, but Bosh has been relegated to a glorified role player on the Heat, a third cog but by no means a superstar or top player.

jayjay33
02-01-2013, 05:45 PM
Oh **** Kobe has more assists that a center! How impressive!


It's the combination of the two (points and assist) that makes it impressive genius. :facepalm:

Lakerfan In NY
02-01-2013, 05:48 PM
Even of you did initially mean that, (jury is still out) the past couple years Duncan, Dirk, Randolph, KG, Blake, Love and Aldridge have all been arguably better than Bosh since he's joined the Heat. You can even throw A'mare in there if you want to be daring. I'll give you Wade, but Bosh has been relegated to a glorified role player on the Heat, a third cog but by no means a superstar or top player.

Definite debate. Duncan, KG more like centers at this stage in their career. I agree though, he is a role player bc of situation not play. Trade him right now, he becomes a superstar again.

jayjay33
02-01-2013, 05:53 PM
Rhetorical question here man. Not Laker fans, but insane Laker/Kobe fans need constant validation that their guy is an all timer, and need to press their agenda that some current younger player won't pass them in their minds, and he shall not be named.




Really? It seems to me that the vast majority of Kobe threads are started by non laker/Kobe fans attemping to knock him in one way or another.

bluefire7002
02-01-2013, 05:54 PM
Definite debate. Duncan, KG more like centers at this stage in their career. I agree though, he is a role player bc of situation not play. Trade him right now, he becomes a superstar again.

THIS... He's had to take a step back in production, for Lebron and some nights Wade to lead.

jayjay33
02-01-2013, 05:59 PM
that's a ridiculous time to switch from a shaq to kobe fan. look at the numbers each put up in that finals. Shaq was dominating, yet needed the ball more(kobe wouldn't feed him, instead insisted on fade away hero shot bricks). Kobe got shut down like a woman by their defense, while Shaq was abusing them. why can't Lakers fans admit what really happened in that finals?

Shaq 26.6 ppg 63%FG, 10.8 rpg, 1.6 apg
Kobe 22.6 ppg 38%FG, 2.8 rpg,, 4.4 apg

Shaquille shot the ball 84 times to Kobe's 113. dude would not stop shootin bricks instead of feeding the only guy killing the pistons for 63%fg. nobody else on the lakers even got near 40% except rick fox, who played a whopping 30 min total. it was obvious Kobe was refusing to give the ball up, & trying for finals mvp or bust(he'd rather lose than let shaq get another finals mvp). yea kobe was far from better than shaq at that point, & he hated it. he should have made sure to get shaq the ball more & have him avg about 32-35 ppg, & only shot when it was a great look(helping his fg%), for any chance of LA winning, but there was no way his was gonna sit by & watch shaq get another finals mvp. Shaquille was the 1 guy the pistons had no answer for. i'd have been furious at kobe if i was a lakers fan, but i loved what happened(basically throwing the finals because of ego). priceless finals lolz


Double post

jayjay33
02-01-2013, 06:02 PM
that's a ridiculous time to switch from a shaq to kobe fan. look at the numbers each put up in that finals. Shaq was dominating, yet needed the ball more(kobe wouldn't feed him, instead insisted on fade away hero shot bricks). Kobe got shut down like a woman by their defense, while Shaq was abusing them. why can't Lakers fans admit what really happened in that finals?

Shaq 26.6 ppg 63%FG, 10.8 rpg, 1.6 apg
Kobe 22.6 ppg 38%FG, 2.8 rpg,, 4.4 apg

Shaquille shot the ball 84 times to Kobe's 113. dude would not stop shootin bricks instead of feeding the only guy killing the pistons for 63%fg. nobody else on the lakers even got near 40% except rick fox, who played a whopping 30 min total. it was obvious Kobe was refusing to give the ball up, & trying for finals mvp or bust(he'd rather lose than let shaq get another finals mvp). yea kobe was far from better than shaq at that point, & he hated it. he should have made sure to get shaq the ball more & have him avg about 32-35 ppg, & only shot when it was a great look(helping his fg%), for any chance of LA winning, but there was no way his was gonna sit by & watch shaq get another finals mvp. Shaquille was the 1 guy the pistons had no answer for. i'd have been furious at kobe if i was a lakers fan, but i loved what happened(basically throwing the finals because of ego). priceless finals lolz



You left out the part about the pistons entire game plan being exploit shaq lack of any kind of defense "what-so-ever" in pick and roll. Shaq's name should be on Chauncey billups MVP trophy. Kobe shooting didn't hurt them NEARLY as much as shaq's defense. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. priceless finals indeed lolz

RLundi
02-01-2013, 06:07 PM
Definite debate. Duncan, KG more like centers at this stage in their career. I agree though, he is a role player bc of situation not play. Trade him right now, he becomes a superstar again.

I don't think he was ever a superstar. He's a good scorer, but he definitely had Mike James syndrome in Toronto -- somebody had to do the scoring. I think Bosh is a good player, but superstar he is absolutely not.

EDIT: Went back and looked at his peak PER. It was elite-level but I still never considered him a superstar. Just my opinion though.

Tony_Starks
02-01-2013, 06:11 PM
For every Kobe thread, there are LeBron fans. Same the other way.



True but you can make a Lebron thread without being completely bombarded with Kobe talk. There are your die hard Kobe guys that chime in but that's the minority.

You make a Kobe thread and people that don't even consider themselves big Lebron fans will throw his name around just to discredit him in some way. How many times have you seen a Kobe thread and somebody just comes out of the clear blue sky with "Lebron is better than Kobe EVER was!" Like man what does that have to do with the topic?

Bruno
02-01-2013, 06:24 PM
to expand on the topic a bit

kobe has the 4th most assists out of any of the top 25 scorers in NBA history. Only three top 25 all-time scorers have more assists than kobe. oscar robertson (10th all-time scorer), jerry west (15th) and john havlicek (12th).

kobe is on pace to pass west and havlicek in assists in 2013-2014. he's on pace to retire as the #2 assist man out of the nbas top 25 all time scorers (if LBJ doesn't crack the top 25 scoring list before Kobe retires/pass him in assists by that time).

#brunostats.

Chronz
02-01-2013, 07:06 PM
Anyone got the inverse of this stat. Assist leader with the most points or something.

ManRam
02-01-2013, 07:16 PM
Longevity is going to have Kobe's counting stats well ahead of a lot of people who are considered better at said statistic. His longevity is going to be close to unmatched when all is said and done. But, counting stats, like everything else need to be taken with a grain of salt...often a large one.

LakersMaster24
02-01-2013, 07:17 PM
When it comes to comparing Kobe vs Wade, people say "Wade >> Kobe!" "Wade is a Top 8 player!!" When it comes to discussing Wade's role on the Heat..."Wade is not a Top 10 player." "Wade is a role player!"

NBA Forum.

b@llhog24
02-01-2013, 07:23 PM
Kobe fans salty.

ManRam
02-01-2013, 07:40 PM
When it comes to comparing Kobe vs Wade, people say "Wade >> Kobe!" "Wade is a Top 8 player!!" When it comes to discussing Wade's role on the Heat..."Wade is not a Top 10 player." "Wade is a role player!"

NBA Forum.

Oh. I must have missed the "Wade is a role player" talk that apparently is so prevalent. Shucks.

Can you direct me to it? And don't just quote one idiot saying that...and don't quote someone saying "wade played like a role player during this tiny period of time either"...because that's not saying "Wade is a role player"

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-01-2013, 07:49 PM
Haha.. It's funny when they all came together they were all in their Prime. All of a sudden they win a championship with Lebron being the MVP and finals MVP, and people claim he "carried" an aging Heat team :laugh2:

This,LOL

Chronz
02-01-2013, 07:51 PM
This,LOL
Isnt the correct Laker term, llullz?

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-01-2013, 07:55 PM
That's irrelevant considering we're comparing Wade and Bosh to prime Shaq.

40/13/7>>>>>>>30/13.5/3.5

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-01-2013, 07:58 PM
to expand on the topic a bit

kobe has the 4th most assists out of any of the top 25 scorers in nba history. Only three top 25 all-time scorers have more assists than kobe. Oscar robertson (10th all-time scorer), jerry west (15th) and john havlicek (12th).

Kobe is on pace to pass west and havlicek in assists in 2013-2014. He's on pace to retire as the #2 assist man out of the nbas top 25 all time scorers (if lbj doesn't crack the top 25 scoring list before kobe retires/pass him in assists by that time).

#brunostats.

zing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-01-2013, 07:59 PM
Isnt the correct Laker term, llullz?

OOPS sorry.
















llullz:D

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02-01-2013, 08:44 PM
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odiz
02-01-2013, 09:21 PM
Anyone got the inverse of this stat. Assist leader with the most points or something.

Would have to be Gary Payton or Oscar Robertson.

ManRam
02-01-2013, 09:30 PM
40/13/7>>>>>>>30/13.5/3.5

Wow. That's just not true. 2 guys hardly producing better than one guy doesn't make those 2 guys more valuable that that one guy.



Eeesssh....

Chronz
02-01-2013, 09:42 PM
40/13/7>>>>>>>30/13.5/3.5

By this argument if you were to pair Shaq with someone who averages a meager 10PPG with .6 rebounds and 3.5 Assists, thats all you would need to match that? Wow Shaq was awesome.

ThaDubs
02-01-2013, 10:17 PM
It should be pretty easy to get assists when everybody double teams you.

LakersMaster24
02-01-2013, 10:23 PM
Love how all of you ignored Bruno's post. Pathetic.

OceanSpray
02-01-2013, 10:41 PM
40/13/7>>>>>>>30/13.5/3.5

Why are you such a troll? Did you seriously combine the stats of two all star players to that of one? In that case, the starters of Washington Wizards combined is better than LeBron.

HouRealCoach
02-02-2013, 12:01 AM
Why are you such a troll? Did you seriously combine the stats of two all star players to that of one? In that case, the starters of Washington Wizards combined is better than LeBron.

They will do anything to make it seem like Kobe is god... I remember they said Shaq only played great in the playoffs against the weak eastern competition lol and Kobe is the one that carried them past the Western squads. These guys are epic, they never seem to fail but I am starting to notice how one by one that they are getting banned from the site so I am enjoying this now while I still can lol

HouRealCoach
02-02-2013, 12:19 AM
to expand on the topic a bit

kobe has the 4th most assists out of any of the top 25 scorers in NBA history. Only three top 25 all-time scorers have more assists than kobe. oscar robertson (10th all-time scorer), jerry west (15th) and john havlicek (12th).

kobe is on pace to pass west and havlicek in assists in 2013-2014. he's on pace to retire as the #2 assist man out of the nbas top 25 all time scorers (if LBJ doesn't crack the top 25 scoring list before Kobe retires/pass him in assists by that time).

#brunostats.

Where does he rank in assist averages & where does he rank in FG% among the all-time top 25 scorers?

You guys really have to quit leaving averages out of the picture & a lot of the guys are big men or guys like Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Allen Iverson etc. who we know didn't pass much

Vee-Rex
02-02-2013, 01:12 AM
Kobe fans (not LA fans) can be the worst. Kobe has flaws too, so I don't understand the way people make it seem like he is perfect. But...

What an incredible player. I'm seriously awed by Kobe. I will regret the day he retires, as I don't know if there will ever be another player like him or MJ in my lifetime. Talk about a complete player. He has no weakness in his offensive game (except maybe shooting too much). Post game, off the dribble drive, 3point, mid range J. Strong finisher with either hand even after a lot of contact. He is one of the best passers in the league and I'm glad he has been showing it lately. The dude can make EVERY pass. He can rebound really good. His defense is crazy.

Top it all off with having incredible clutch. No matter how much you hate Kobe or LA fans, no matter how arrogant and stubborn they can be, you can't take anything away from him. 5 rings, 1 mvp, multiple all-star/final mvps, etc...

No matter how much someone hate, he will go down as a top 5 if not top 3 GOAT. While Lebron could potentially surpass it, as of RIGHT NOW his career (read career, not game) is not better than Kobe's. Time will tell, but this is why I love basketball. So congrats to Kobe and his accomplishments.

Chronz
02-02-2013, 01:16 AM
Love how all of you ignored Bruno's post. Pathetic.
What exactly does his post have to do with whoever you think is ignoring it? Why cant we all share our opinions without having to belittle people? Pathetic? Plz, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing on the impession of this accomplishment. Kobe has GOAT longevity, THATS the impressive thing. And pretty much EVERYONE agrees with that. What more really needs to be said?

OceanSpray
02-02-2013, 12:52 PM
Basically this question should be renamed "Is Kobe going to play forever?" because there is no doubt his longevity is one of the best we've seen. He's not a passer, he's a ballhogger. Even if he passed, he's still a ballhog. He takes tough and unnecessary shots when his teammates have a better chance of scoring.

beliges
02-02-2013, 01:24 PM
Basically this question should be renamed "Is Kobe going to play forever?" because there is no doubt his longevity is one of the best we've seen. He's not a passer, he's a ballhogger. Even if he passed, he's still a ballhog. He takes tough and unnecessary shots when his teammates have a better chance of scoring.

I don't get why ballhog is such a bad thing? It seems this is the only criticism that remains for Kobe. The greatest of all time was the biggest ballhog in the history of the NBA. If you're as good as Kobe surely you're going to ballhog. Criticizing someone for being a ballhog is completely moot when that ballhogging has lead to 5 championships. It seems some of you would've been much happier if Kobe sacrificed winning for less shot attempts.

OceanSpray
02-02-2013, 01:39 PM
I don't get why ballhog is such a bad thing? It seems this is the only criticism that remains for Kobe. The greatest of all time was the biggest ballhog in the history of the NBA. If you're as good as Kobe surely you're going to ballhog. Criticizing someone for being a ballhog is completely moot when that ballhogging has lead to 5 championships. It seems some of you would've been much happier if Kobe sacrificed winning for less shot attempts.

There is a difference between a ballhogger who shoots the team out of games and one who wins. Why do you think LAL is 4-1 since Kobe started facilitating? Hmmm.. Must be a coincidence.

Twins Fanatic
02-02-2013, 01:45 PM
Give LeBron five more years, this won't mean a thing.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-02-2013, 02:02 PM
By this argument if you were to pair Shaq with someone who averages a meager 10PPG with .6 rebounds and 3.5 Assists, thats all you would need to match that? Wow Shaq was awesome.

The point i'm trying to make is i would rather have Wade/Bosh (from the day the heat trio joining forces) Than shaq. Especially The first two years. People seem to forget that if Lebron didn't choke in the finals they would be on there way to a 3peat. Wade was a beast that year and Lebron ruined it. Both Wade and Bosh outscored Lebron in the finals. There is absolutely no excuse for that to happen. Bottom line 2011 Wade/Bosh> Shaq

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-02-2013, 02:05 PM
They will do anything to make it seem like Kobe is god... I remember they said Shaq only played great in the playoffs against the weak eastern competition lol and Kobe is the one that carried them past the Western squads. These guys are epic, they never seem to fail but I am starting to notice how one by one that they are getting banned from the site so I am enjoying this now while I still can lol

In no way shape or form did i say anything close to regaurding Kobe you clown. So get off his nuts and go crawl back in the hole you came from fool!

HouRealCoach
02-02-2013, 02:05 PM
I don't get why ballhog is such a bad thing? It seems this is the only criticism that remains for Kobe. The greatest of all time was the biggest ballhog in the history of the NBA. If you're as good as Kobe surely you're going to ballhog. Criticizing someone for being a ballhog is completely moot when that ballhogging has lead to 5 championships. It seems some of you would've been much happier if Kobe sacrificed winning for less shot attempts.

Kobe had a lot more capable teammates to assist to than Jordan... Outside of Pippen there was no other All Star that he could rely on. Kobe on the other hand had Shaq, Rice, then just Shaq (surrounded by 3 point shooters), then Shaq, Malone, Payton, then Odom, Bynum, Gasol, Artest (or Ariza), & now Dwight, Gasol, etc.

Try comparing them to Cartwright, Grant, Armstrong, Paxson, Kukoc, Kerr, Rodman, Longley, Buechler, etc.

There is absolutely no comparison, when Jordan played PG for a year he averaged 8 assists & he's also a career 50% FG shooter (much better than Kobe)

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-02-2013, 02:08 PM
Basically this question should be renamed "Is Kobe going to play forever?" because there is no doubt his longevity is one of the best we've seen. He's not a passer, he's a ballhogger. Even if he passed, he's still a ballhog. He takes tough and unnecessary shots when his teammates have a better chance of scoring.

Perhaps you haven't seen the newest laker play. His name is Kobe johnson ;)

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-02-2013, 02:10 PM
Kobe had a lot more capable teammates to assist to than Jordan... Outside of Pippen there was no other All Star that he could rely on. Kobe on the other hand had Shaq, Rice, then just Shaq (surrounded by 3 point shooters), then Shaq, Malone, Payton, then Odom, Bynum, Gasol, Artest (or Ariza), & now Dwight, Gasol, etc.

Try comparing them to Cartwright, Grant, Armstrong, Paxson, Kukoc, Kerr, Rodman, Longley, Buechler, etc.

There is absolutely no comparison, when Jordan played PG for a year he averaged 8 assists & he's also a career 50% FG shooter (much better than Kobe)

:facepalm: Jordan had some of the greatest teams ever.

Did you just put malone and payton in there as if they were good ? Bynum was always a giant kid the could never lead us over the top. Gasol had 2 good years then had a sex change. Odom was great alot of the time but after our back to back rings he feel of in the post season. Artest is ********, and ariza was a good player with us.
Bulls cast>Lakers cast

HouRealCoach
02-02-2013, 02:13 PM
The point i'm trying to make is i would rather have Wade/Bosh (from the day the heat trio joining forces) Than shaq. Especially The first two years. People seem to forget that if Lebron didn't choke in the finals they would be on there way to a 3peat. Wade was a beast that year and Lebron ruined it. Both Wade and Bosh outscored Lebron in the finals. There is absolutely no excuse for that to happen. Bottom line 2011 Wade/Bosh> Shaq

:facepalm:


In no way shape or form did i say anything close to regaurding Kobe you clown. So get off his nuts and go crawl back in the hole you came from fool!

Why do you Kobe fans get so in your feelings? My bad I thought you were trying to say that LeBron had more help than Kobe lol


:facepalm: Jordan had some of the greatest teams ever.

Still didn't have any great scorers outside of Pippen who really wasn't that great of a scorer

beliges
02-02-2013, 02:33 PM
I don't get why ballhog is such a bad thing? It seems this is the only criticism that remains for Kobe. The greatest of all time was the biggest ballhog in the history of the NBA. If you're as good as Kobe surely you're going to ballhog. Criticizing someone for being a ballhog is completely moot when that ballhogging has lead to 5 championships. It seems some of you would've been much happier if Kobe sacrificed winning for less shot attempts.

Kobe had a lot more capable teammates to assist to than Jordan... Outside of Pippen there was no other All Star that he could rely on. Kobe on the other hand had Shaq, Rice, then just Shaq (surrounded by 3 point shooters), then Shaq, Malone, Payton, then Odom, Bynum, Gasol, Artest (or Ariza), & now Dwight, Gasol, etc.

Try comparing them to Cartwright, Grant, Armstrong, Paxson, Kukoc, Kerr, Rodman, Longley, Buechler, etc.

There is absolutely no comparison, when Jordan played PG for a year he averaged 8 assists & he's also a career 50% FG shooter (much better than Kobe)

That's just a silly statement. MJ had more than capable teammates. Great role players and the greatest perimeter defender to ever play on his team for his entire championship runs.. the Pau/Kobe Lakers did not have the talent of those Bulls teams. Its funny how.people interpret history in a way that furthers their point no matter how.inaccurate.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-02-2013, 02:34 PM
:facepalm:



Why do you Kobe fans get so in your feelings? My bad I thought you were trying to say that LeBron had more help than Kobe lol

I figured lol

Still didn't have any great scorers outside of Pippen who really wasn't that great of a scorer

The thing with those bulls teams is everyone on that team was given thier own roles and they played them to perfection. Those Bulls teams were very very well rounded.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-02-2013, 02:35 PM
That's just a silly statement. MJ had more than capable teammates. Great role players and the greatest perimeter defender to ever play on his team for his entire championship runs.. the Pau/Kobe Lakers did not have the talent of those Bulls teams. Its funny how.people interpret history in a way that furthers their point no matter how.inaccurate.

^

StarvingKnick22
02-02-2013, 02:36 PM
3 of them are centers.

DoubleDragon
02-02-2013, 02:39 PM
wow. HATE much? Stick to the thread man.

Chronz
02-02-2013, 02:50 PM
The point i'm trying to make is i would rather have Wade/Bosh (from the day the heat trio joining forces) Than shaq.
OH.... lol then find a different barometer because yours just reminds us all how dominant Shaq was. That you could pair him with someone so crappy and he would still be more productive (by that barometer) than 2 Stars is ****ing crazy.



Especially The first two years. People seem to forget that if Lebron didn't choke in the finals they would be on there way to a 3peat. Wade was a beast that year and Lebron ruined it. Both Wade and Bosh outscored Lebron in the finals. There is absolutely no excuse for that to happen. Bottom line 2011 Wade/Bosh> Shaq

Agree to disagree, not really trying to get into that debate again.

Chronz
02-02-2013, 02:52 PM
That's just a silly statement. MJ had more than capable teammates. Great role players and the greatest perimeter defender to ever play on his team for his entire championship runs.. the Pau/Kobe Lakers did not have the talent of those Bulls teams. Its funny how.people interpret history in a way that furthers their point no matter how.inaccurate.
Im pretty sure hes only talking about offense help.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-02-2013, 03:03 PM
OH.... lol then find a different barometer because yours just reminds us all how dominant Shaq was. That you could pair him with someone so crappy and he would still be more productive (by that barometer) than 2 Stars is ****ing crazy.



Agree to disagree, not really trying to get into that debate again.

The debate was would u rather have shaq or Wade/bosh I believe.

How is what I said in the second part not true?

HouRealCoach
02-02-2013, 03:05 PM
That's just a silly statement. MJ had more than capable teammates. Great role players and the greatest perimeter defender to ever play on his team for his entire championship runs.. the Pau/Kobe Lakers did not have the talent of those Bulls teams. Its funny how.people interpret history in a way that furthers their point no matter how.inaccurate.

So tell me who were the GREAT scorers you guys are acting like he had? Tell me who he had that could match Shaq on offense? Who could match what Gasol, Bynum, & Odom could provide on offense?

I never said he didn't have a good supporting cast, & you didn't read that so I'm guessing you are attempting to change the topic of my post because you saw how wrong you were

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-02-2013, 03:13 PM
So tell me who were the GREAT scorers you guys are acting like he had? Tell me who he had that could match Shaq on offense? Who could match what Gasol, Bynum, & Odom could provide on offense?

I never said he didn't have a good supporting cast, & you didn't read that so I'm guessing you are attempting to change the topic of my post because you saw how wrong you were


Pippen? Luc? Kukoc? Harper? Kerr? Those guys didn't score huh?

beliges
02-02-2013, 03:17 PM
That's just a silly statement. MJ had more than capable teammates. Great role players and the greatest perimeter defender to ever play on his team for his entire championship runs.. the Pau/Kobe Lakers did not have the talent of those Bulls teams. Its funny how.people interpret history in a way that furthers their point no matter how.inaccurate.

So tell me who were the GREAT scorers you guys are acting like he had? Tell me who he had that could match Shaq on offense? Who could match what Gasol, Bynum, & Odom could provide on offense?

I never said he didn't have a good supporting cast, & you didn't read that so I'm guessing you are attempting to change the topic of my post because you saw how wrong you were

The reason those bulls teams were so great (especially the 2nd 3peat) was because their defevse. Having the greatest perimeter defender and the greatest rebounding machine in NBA history definitely helped. Besides that, it helps to have the leagues best shooters in Kerr and paxson, not to mention pippen was a franchise player, along with the best 6 man for a few years in kukoc. Not to mention Horace grant was one of the better pfs in the game during that time. Look like I said, no point in arguing here, mj had one of the most talented teams in the league during his title runs. Same with the Kobe/shaq Lakers.

HouRealCoach
02-02-2013, 03:20 PM
Pippen? Luc? Kukoc? Harper? Kerr? Those guys didn't score huh?

Pippen could score but was not GREAT at it... Kukoc & Harper were around 10 & 13 ppg with Jordan, is that GREAT? Is that also more valuable than Shaq? I can't even believe you mentioned Longley & Kerr like they were scorers... Kerr himself will tell you he isn't a scorer lol

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-02-2013, 03:23 PM
Pippen could score but was not GREAT at it... Kukoc & Harper were around 10 & 13 ppg with Jordan, is that GREAT? Is that also more valuable than Shaq? I can't even believe you mentioned Longley & Kerr like they were scorers... Kerr himself will tell you he isn't a scorer lol

the bottom line is bulls teams> 2000's lakers teams.

mngopher35
02-02-2013, 03:23 PM
The debate was would u rather have shaq or Wade/bosh I believe.

How is what I said in the second part not true?

Now consider the salary and what type of player would need to be paired with shaq to match their production. One player matching up that close to 2 players is pretty amazing. Would you rather have carlos boozer and brandon jennings or Lebron? I'm guessing the other 2 have better combined numbers but would you honestly take them over Lebron? I'm not saying your wrong to choose those 2 players, but those statistics aren't the reason.

HouRealCoach
02-02-2013, 03:28 PM
The reason those bulls teams were so great (especially the 2nd 3peat) was because their defevse. Having the greatest perimeter defender and the greatest rebounding machine in NBA history definitely helped. Besides that, it helps to have the leagues best shooters in Kerr and paxson, not to mention pippen was a franchise player, along with the best 6 man for a few years in kukoc. Not to mention Horace grant was one of the better pfs in the game during that time. Look like I said, no point in arguing here, mj had one of the most talented teams in the league during his title runs. Same with the Kobe/shaq Lakers.

What does that have to do with you claiming Jordan is the biggest ballhog ever? I'm asking you to provide me with the scorers that he could rely on to carry the load on offense. Pippen was NOT a franchise player. Kukoc has one 6moy award. Grant was one of the better PF's? So was Shawn Kemp, outside of Barkley & Malone, the PF's were not that good in the 90's. In the 00's he wouldn't have been top 15.

I NEVER said Jordan didn't have a good supporting cast.. I put it in bold letters so you could see :)

HouRealCoach
02-02-2013, 03:30 PM
the bottom line is bulls teams> 2000's lakers teams.

Mainly because of Jordan... Trade Shaq for Pippen and Kobe for Jordan and Jordan & Shaq probably sweeps through the playoffs every year lol

LakersMaster24
02-02-2013, 03:35 PM
Mainly because of Jordan... Trade Shaq for Pippen and Kobe for Jordan and Jordan & Shaq probably sweeps through the playoffs every year lol

Jordan and Shaq would have twice is as much beef as Shaq and Kobe did.

HouRealCoach
02-02-2013, 03:40 PM
Jordan and Shaq would have twice is as much beef as Shaq and Kobe did.

You might be right because Jordan's personality sucks but talent wise they would easily be the best dynamic duo ever

LAKERMANIA
02-02-2013, 03:41 PM
Jordan and Shaq would have twice is as much beef as Shaq and Kobe did.
Agreed, just like Kobe and Shaq, both Jordan and Shaq have pretty big egos that may damage their relationship and as a result the duo of Jordan and Shaq would not last as long as people may think

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-02-2013, 03:44 PM
What does that have to do with you claiming Jordan is the biggest ballhog ever? I'm asking you to provide me with the scorers that he could rely on to carry the load on offense. Pippen was NOT a franchise player. Kukoc has one 6moy award. Grant was one of the better PF's? So was Shawn Kemp, outside of Barkley & Malone, the PF's were not that good in the 90's. In the 00's he wouldn't have been top 15.

I NEVER said Jordan didn't have a good supporting cast.. I put it in bold letters so you could see :)

Well you made it seem as if jordan had no one.

ILLUSIONIST^248
02-02-2013, 03:50 PM
You might be right because Jordan's personality sucks but talent wise they would easily be the best dynamic duo ever

yeah but it wouldn't have worked. Could you imagine them going at it for the finals MVP? ouch

beliges
02-02-2013, 05:04 PM
The reason those bulls teams were so great (especially the 2nd 3peat) was because their defevse. Having the greatest perimeter defender and the greatest rebounding machine in NBA history definitely helped. Besides that, it helps to have the leagues best shooters in Kerr and paxson, not to mention pippen was a franchise player, along with the best 6 man for a few years in kukoc. Not to mention Horace grant was one of the better pfs in the game during that time. Look like I said, no point in arguing here, mj had one of the most talented teams in the league during his title runs. Same with the Kobe/shaq Lakers.

What does that have to do with you claiming Jordan is the biggest ballhog ever? I'm asking you to provide me with the scorers that he could rely on to carry the load on offense. Pippen was NOT a franchise player. Kukoc has one 6moy award. Grant was one of the better PF's? So was Shawn Kemp, outside of Barkley & Malone, the PF's were not that good in the 90's. In the 00's he wouldn't have been top 15.

I NEVER said Jordan didn't have a good supporting cast.. I put it in bold letters so you could see :)

The reason MJ was the biggest ballhog in NBA history is because he shot more.per game than anyone in NBA history. I mean by definition he was the biggest ballhog of them all.. but again, there's nothing wrong with being a ballhog if you win.

LAcowBOMBER
02-02-2013, 08:32 PM
They will do anything to make it seem like Kobe is god... I remember they said Shaq only played great in the playoffs against the weak eastern competition lol and Kobe is the one that carried them past the Western squads. These guys are epic, they never seem to fail but I am starting to notice how one by one that they are getting banned from the site so I am enjoying this now while I still can lol

I said that if you take away the numbers from the last 2 finals that Shaq and Kobe won together, that Kobe was the better player in the playoffs. The 2nd playoff run to the championship I would even be willing to say they were equal, but Kobe was certainly better in the last playoff run that the 2 of them had leading to a championship. His numbers then seem inflated, especially against the Nets in the last year. The fact that I think Aaron Williams presented the biggest problem for Shaq should tell you all you need to know about how easy he had it in those finals. It made sense for Shaq to feast on them, but those Nets would not have gotten by any of the top 4 teams in the East that year, hence me saying that those finals were just a formality. Shaq got the MVP of the finals because he deserved it, but it makes Kobe get overlooked for being the MVP of those playoffs.

EDIT: So Shaq was more valuable for the 1st, they were pretty equally valuable for the 2nd(my personal opinion is that Kobe was better, but it is debatable) and Kobe was more valuable for the 3rd one. I don't think either one of them could have had that kind of success without the other at that point in their careers, but it's ridiculous when people act like Kobe was Robin to Shaq's batman. It was more of an Avengers situation lol

It's also funny how you think someone like me is getting banned when you are the one that adds nothing constructive and just hates on Kobe fans, thats called flaming or trolling take your pick and that is how people get banned.

Also you say "they" as if anyone other than me said it. I said it and can back it up with facts instead of saying something useless like "lol what an epic fail, Kobe isn't better than Shaq" and provide no evidence to substantiate the claim.

LAcowBOMBER
02-02-2013, 08:34 PM
The reason MJ was the biggest ballhog in NBA history is because he shot more.per game than anyone in NBA history. I mean by definition he was the biggest ballhog of them all.. but again, there's nothing wrong with being a ballhog if you win.

I would argue it is not hogging the ball if you win though. The point is to win and if you give you team the best chance at winning it isn't ballhogging, it is following the plan

OceanSpray
02-02-2013, 09:10 PM
Shots per game isn't the sole reason of a ballhogger. A ballhogger is someone who takes terrible shots when it could've been a better shot by another teammate. A ballhogger forces shots and destroys the team in terms of communication and positions.

No one who has played with Kobe truly liked him as a person. Take for example Smush Parker, he said they used to always go out and eat as a team and do activities for camaraderie. The only one who refused to and was separating himself from the team was Kobe because Kobe felt the team wasn't up to his level and that he shouldn't associate with them.

That is why Kobe ballhogged. What a pathetic player with no sense of teamwork!

beliges
02-02-2013, 10:19 PM
Shots per game isn't the sole reason of a ballhogger. A ballhogger is someone who takes terrible shots when it could've been a better shot by another teammate. A ballhogger forces shots and destroys the team in terms of communication and positions.

No one who has played with Kobe truly liked him as a person. Take for example Smush Parker, he said they used to always go out and eat as a team and do activities for camaraderie. The only one who refused to and was separating himself from the team was Kobe because Kobe felt the team wasn't up to his level and that he shouldn't associate with them.

That is why Kobe ballhogged. What a pathetic player with no sense of teamwork!

Lets put it this way, without Kobe smush would have no NBA career. And a ballhog is one that takes a lot of shots. Clearly kobes shot selection proved successful as is evideced by the fact he is the most dominant player of his era in terms of winning. I still don't see the criticism here. So a Guy with superior skill shot a lit and won 5 championships. I just don't see the problem. If you're as good as mj and Kobe you shoot.

jericho
02-02-2013, 11:03 PM
he needed like over 130 games to pass MJ and like some one else said b4 he just barely past kareem + the other 2 are a center and a pf soo plz no just no

jericho
02-02-2013, 11:43 PM
zing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lmao hahaha really again kobe has played more games then all of them except for havlicek of course he is gonna pass them use some logic in this plz i know you guys are kobe fans (not lakers fans) but plz do have some common sense

jericho
02-02-2013, 11:47 PM
i just responded to it but i quoted it wrong. i quoted illusionist instead of him lol

Dankster
02-02-2013, 11:47 PM
His numbers look extremely gaudy in general because he's been in the league since he was 17. I hate MJ, but he was a much better passer and rebounder than Kobe- just a more complete player in general. But Kobe's stats look tremendous given how long he's been able to produce.

The #'s he's putting up right now are incredible.

jericho
02-02-2013, 11:48 PM
Love how all of you ignored Bruno's post. Pathetic.

i just responded to it but i quoted it wrong. i quoted illusionist instead of him lol

LAcowBOMBER
02-03-2013, 03:32 AM
Shots per game isn't the sole reason of a ballhogger. A ballhogger is someone who takes terrible shots when it could've been a better shot by another teammate. A ballhogger forces shots and destroys the team in terms of communication and positions.

No one who has played with Kobe truly liked him as a person. Take for example Smush Parker, he said they used to always go out and eat as a team and do activities for camaraderie. The only one who refused to and was separating himself from the team was Kobe because Kobe felt the team wasn't up to his level and that he shouldn't associate with them.

That is why Kobe ballhogged. What a pathetic player with no sense of teamwork!

Please, where do you even begin to draw this conclusion?

Ballhogged his way to 5 rings where he was the best player on at least 3 of those teams. Please, its like saying Jordan is a ballhog. Ballhog has a clear negative connotation and there was nothing wrong with how they played which is evident by their success

3RDASYSTEM
02-03-2013, 01:45 PM
The amount of hate in this thread is insane. Kobe is going down as one of the greatest to ever play the game and he's had a sensational career. I'm happy to say I had the privilege of watching him play. Not too many players like him come around. Say what you want about Kobe, but nothing will change him from being a HOF'er and an NBA icon. BOOM.

Now i got to hand it to ya, nobody can match his JORDADNimage ...the league tried to do it from MINER to HILL to AI(too small)to CARTER to BEAN(same height,walk,interview,persona) and he plays in LA market, BINGO

So of course we'll never nobody try to copy BEAN game, i mean JORDAN...and just to think alot of the masses are still searching for the next ELVIS/2PAC

3RDASYSTEM
02-03-2013, 01:57 PM
I said that if you take away the numbers from the last 2 finals that Shaq and Kobe won together, that Kobe was the better player in the playoffs. The 2nd playoff run to the championship I would even be willing to say they were equal, but Kobe was certainly better in the last playoff run that the 2 of them had leading to a championship. His numbers then seem inflated, especially against the Nets in the last year. The fact that I think Aaron Williams presented the biggest problem for Shaq should tell you all you need to know about how easy he had it in those finals. It made sense for Shaq to feast on them, but those Nets would not have gotten by any of the top 4 teams in the East that year, hence me saying that those finals were just a formality. Shaq got the MVP of the finals because he deserved it, but it makes Kobe get overlooked for being the MVP of those playoffs.

EDIT: So Shaq was more valuable for the 1st, they were pretty equally valuable for the 2nd(my personal opinion is that Kobe was better, but it is debatable) and Kobe was more valuable for the 3rd one. I don't think either one of them could have had that kind of success without the other at that point in their careers, but it's ridiculous when people act like Kobe was Robin to Shaq's batman. It was more of an Avengers situation lol

It's also funny how you think someone like me is getting banned when you are the one that adds nothing constructive and just hates on Kobe fans, thats called flaming or trolling take your pick and that is how people get banned.

Also you say "they" as if anyone other than me said it. I said it and can back it up with facts instead of saying something useless like "lol what an epic fail, Kobe isn't better than Shaq" and provide no evidence to substantiate the claim.


FRANCHISEPLAYER NEWSFLASH
Why wasnt BEAN his equal prior to 2001-02 title runs in your eyes? why wasnt he on same level as DIESEL offtop? why was PIPP not on JORDAN level offtop? why wasnt IGGY on AI level offtop? do you see where im going with this?

why was MAGIC equally to ALINCDOR offtop? why was BRON equally to WADE offtop? even HARDEN was equally as important/clutch to OKC as DURANT/WESTBROOK offtop

but i get it BEAN was equal to SHAQ during 2001-02 playoffrun but SHAQ had been killing the league since1993(mvp candidate prior to coming to LA) and BEAN was his teammate for 5-6yrs before he had reached his level?

Its like every yr he went to a new level until 2006 when you fiens claim he was finally the best(after 10yrs,child please)

you fiens are the greatest,rawtalk

3RDASYSTEM
02-03-2013, 02:08 PM
What exactly does his post have to do with whoever you think is ignoring it? Why cant we all share our opinions without having to belittle people? Pathetic? Plz, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing on the impession of this accomplishment. Kobe has GOAT longevity, THATS the impressive thing. And pretty much EVERYONE agrees with that. What more really needs to be said?

BINGO,right on point

its like the FAVRE/JETER syndrome, they have GOAT longevity(nice wording)

PACKERNATION would sware FAVRE never did no wrong, and though he won 3mvp in a row its more his longevity that makes him unique, and that slingermental that he kept from day1 til his wheels fell off

same with JETER in YANKNATION
same with BEAN

how impressive is it to copy a mans game? the so called media/masses GOAT for that matter

Tony_Starks
02-03-2013, 02:26 PM
Shots per game isn't the sole reason of a ballhogger. A ballhogger is someone who takes terrible shots when it could've been a better shot by another teammate. A ballhogger forces shots and destroys the team in terms of communication and positions.

No one who has played with Kobe truly liked him as a person. Take for example Smush Parker, he said they used to always go out and eat as a team and do activities for camaraderie. The only one who refused to and was separating himself from the team was Kobe because Kobe felt the team wasn't up to his level and that he shouldn't associate with them.

That is why Kobe ballhogged. What a pathetic player with no sense of teamwork!



Huge exaggerated statement, and untrue. First off how what's important is being liked as a TEAMMATE not a person. Jordan was disliked by many as a person and thought to be a arrogant jerk in general but liked as a teammate for his competitiveness.

As far as being liked as a teammate off the top off my head I can think of Walton, Odom, Caron Butler, and MWP who all are on record as enjoying being his teammate. In fact Butler credits the time he spent with Kobe to elevating his game and making him better and MWP wanted to play with Kobe so bad he approached him personally after they lost in the finals to tell him he wanted to come to the Lakers so try again.......


Also since your so into male bonding check this out:

"I don't want to take too much credit, but in training camp we became tight," Odom said. "I made sure that we had a chef and that we ate breakfast, lunch and dinner together every day. That's when the bonding started. Even the things he was going through off the court made us tighter. Adversity makes a family tighter, and that's when this team became a family. My grandma used to say, 'You could spend time with the devil and start to like him if you hang out every day.' No one here's the devil, but we had to start hanging out to like each other."

Slowly, Odom said, Bryant changed. He was letting his guard down, joking with his teammates, going out with them, talking to them as if they were his peers instead of obstacles in his pursuit of winning another championship.


Last Friday night, far from Honolulu where the Lakers first broke bread as a team, the players gathered at trendy L.A. pizzeria Mozza for a team meal, a new ritual before each playoff round. During the dinner, news broke that Bryant would be named MVP. When the check came (Bryant picked up the tab), teammates started a chant that Kobe had heard at Staples Center for the better part of his career but didn't think would materialize into anything more.

"M-V-P, M-V-P, M-V-P!"



Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/arash_markazi/05/07/kobe.mvp/#ixzz2JrURXgI5


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/arash_markazi/05/07/kobe.mvp/#ixzz2JrU0h6TL

mngopher35
02-03-2013, 02:50 PM
I said that if you take away the numbers from the last 2 finals that Shaq and Kobe won together, that Kobe was the better player in the playoffs. The 2nd playoff run to the championship I would even be willing to say they were equal, but Kobe was certainly better in the last playoff run that the 2 of them had leading to a championship. His numbers then seem inflated, especially against the Nets in the last year. The fact that I think Aaron Williams presented the biggest problem for Shaq should tell you all you need to know about how easy he had it in those finals. It made sense for Shaq to feast on them, but those Nets would not have gotten by any of the top 4 teams in the East that year, hence me saying that those finals were just a formality. Shaq got the MVP of the finals because he deserved it, but it makes Kobe get overlooked for being the MVP of those playoffs.

EDIT: So Shaq was more valuable for the 1st, they were pretty equally valuable for the 2nd(my personal opinion is that Kobe was better, but it is debatable) and Kobe was more valuable for the 3rd one. I don't think either one of them could have had that kind of success without the other at that point in their careers, but it's ridiculous when people act like Kobe was Robin to Shaq's batman. It was more of an Avengers situation lol

It's also funny how you think someone like me is getting banned when you are the one that adds nothing constructive and just hates on Kobe fans, thats called flaming or trolling take your pick and that is how people get banned.

Also you say "they" as if anyone other than me said it. I said it and can back it up with facts instead of saying something useless like "lol what an epic fail, Kobe isn't better than Shaq" and provide no evidence to substantiate the claim.

First of all your limiting a small sample size even smaller to prove your point, because shaq was better in both the regular season and finals than Kobe was in 2001 and 2002. Kobe was a robin to Shaq for 2000 and 2002 for sure. Even so in 2002 the numbers minus the finals still show shaq being the better player, not Kobe.

2002

Shaq minus finals: 153/300 26.4 ppg 12.67 rpg 2.6 apg TS% .548

Kobe minus finals: 151/361 26.6 ppg 5.87rpg 4.4 apg TS% .488

Sometimes I really do wonder about some of these Lakers fans, its like you guys only care about kobe and discredit shaq or pau just to make him look better. Shaq was the better player all 3 years, with kobe being very close in 2001. For you to claim that kobe was better in 2002 and use a 3 series sample size (where shaq was still better) is crazy.

Chronz
02-03-2013, 02:58 PM
lol is Cowbomber serious? Shaq was better than Kobe until his 2nd year in Miami.

Money_23
02-03-2013, 03:04 PM
shaq was better than kobe during their partnership. It's that simple.

LAcowBOMBER
02-03-2013, 06:35 PM
FRANCHISEPLAYER NEWSFLASH
Why wasnt BEAN his equal prior to 2001-02 title runs in your eyes? why wasnt he on same level as DIESEL offtop? why was PIPP not on JORDAN level offtop? why wasnt IGGY on AI level offtop? do you see where im going with this?

why was MAGIC equally to ALINCDOR offtop? why was BRON equally to WADE offtop? even HARDEN was equally as important/clutch to OKC as DURANT/WESTBROOK offtop

but i get it BEAN was equal to SHAQ during 2001-02 playoffrun but SHAQ had been killing the league since1993(mvp candidate prior to coming to LA) and BEAN was his teammate for 5-6yrs before he had reached his level?

Its like every yr he went to a new level until 2006 when you fiens claim he was finally the best(after 10yrs,child please)

you fiens are the greatest,rawtalk

I can barely make out what you said. If you are asking why 18 year old KObe was not as good as an established NBA center, I don't think that even needs an answer. Their primes were at different times. Kobe has one 2 rings since then while Shaq is sitting in a TV studio. Kobe had the more successful career and was the best player on 3 championship teams, Shaq was the best on 2.

Why are you surprised it took an 18 yr old Kobe 10 years to reach his prime? That's pretty much right on par with when players hit their prime, I mean seriously, it is around the time Shaq reached his prime.

Not sure if this actually refutes what you are saying because I really can't make out parts of it

Hawkeye15
02-03-2013, 06:41 PM
lol is Cowbomber serious? Shaq was better than Kobe until his 2nd year in Miami.

many Kobe fans have convinced themselves of this even if it isn't the case, for some odd reason.

LAcowBOMBER
02-03-2013, 06:43 PM
First of all your limiting a small sample size even smaller to prove your point, because shaq was better in both the regular season and finals than Kobe was in 2001 and 2002. Kobe was a robin to Shaq for 2000 and 2002 for sure. Even so in 2002 the numbers minus the finals still show shaq being the better player, not Kobe.

2002

Shaq minus finals: 153/300 26.4 ppg 12.67 rpg 2.6 apg TS% .548

Kobe minus finals: 151/361 26.6 ppg 5.87rpg 4.4 apg TS% .488

Sometimes I really do wonder about some of these Lakers fans, its like you guys only care about kobe and discredit shaq or pau just to make him look better. Shaq was the better player all 3 years, with kobe being very close in 2001. For you to claim that kobe was better in 2002 and use a 3 series sample size (where shaq was still better) is crazy.

It's not a small sample size, it is the entire playoffs. I understand it isn't a ton of games, but NBA players are measured by rings so what sample size would you like me to examine? Playoffs are always a much smaller sample size, but yet people value them so highly.

Those numbers are ridiculously close. It's funny that you act like I am clearly wrong after putting them up. Watch the games. I was a bigger Shaq fan at the time and thought Kobe was better. Of course a guard is going to have a lower TS%. Kobe took any shot with time winding down because Shaq needed like 8 seconds at least to work in the post. Kobe was also the only one on the team that could create his own shot and seldom had Fisher set him up for an easy look. Kobe occupied everyone's attention on the perimeter, he would have had a better TS% if he had a guard better than Fisher

Hawkeye15
02-03-2013, 06:49 PM
It's not a small sample size, it is the entire playoffs. I understand it isn't a ton of games, but NBA players are measured by rings so what sample size would you like me to examine? Playoffs are always a much smaller sample size, but yet people value them so highly.

Those numbers are ridiculously close. It's funny that you act like I am clearly wrong after putting them up. Watch the games. I was a bigger Shaq fan at the time and thought Kobe was better. Of course a guard is going to have a lower TS%. Kobe took any shot with time winding down because Shaq needed like 8 seconds at least to work in the post. Kobe was also the only one on the team that could create his own shot and seldom had Fisher set him up for an easy look. Kobe occupied everyone's attention on the perimeter, he would have had a better TS% if he had a guard better than Fisher

NBA players are not measured by championships. You also don't get the impact Shaq had on defenses. During his prime, defenses didn't give a **** if a wing beat them, it was still a better option to absolutely load the side of the floor Shaq was on and let a guard shoot away. Shaq's impact is such that he changed entire defensive gameplans every single time a team played them. Kobe was the huge benefactor. Shaq was the best player on the Lakers 3 runs, and was even better than Kobe his first couple of seasons away.

3RDASYSTEM
02-03-2013, 07:23 PM
I can barely make out what you said. If you are asking why 18 year old KObe was not as good as an established NBA center, I don't think that even needs an answer. Their primes were at different times. Kobe has one 2 rings since then while Shaq is sitting in a TV studio. Kobe had the more successful career and was the best player on 3 championship teams, Shaq was the best on 2.

Why are you surprised it took an 18 yr old Kobe 10 years to reach his prime? That's pretty much right on par with when players hit their prime, I mean seriously, it is around the time Shaq reached his prime.

Not sure if this actually refutes what you are saying because I really can't make out parts of it

This is why i call him a developing player, not a franchise type...its a thin line but its a big diff when trying to decipher those 2

example, all you guys keep saying him being 18 and blah blah blah

and so was BRON/AMARE/KG/MALONE/KWAME/A.HARRINGTON/TMAC/BYNUM and so on right

now take your head out your *** and tell me how was BRON/AMARE/KG/MALONE/TMAC any diff. 'game'wise from they inception to they 7th or 10th yr? now go look at HARRINGTON/BYNUM/KWAME and look at them and tell me are they any diff. gamewise since they first entered the league?

BRON was equal to SHAQ had LA been able to heist him with the no1 pick, SHAQ was just the 1st option, but they were both equal, and he most def. would have started over CEBALLOS/VANEXEL/JONES at 18 or 22 or 25 or 28yrs old, so what in the hell does a prime have to do with anything other than a mediaword made up to justify a players 'best stretch'? BRON/AI/SHAQ/WILT/JORDAN/MAGIC and others were primed rookieyr,preNBA

a developing player has to reach a 'prime', your impact/game/dominance is shown day1

to me 18yr old BEAN is no diff. than 22 or 25yr old BEAN
same with AI/BRON/JORDAN/SHAQ/WILT

WILT avg 50ppg his 3rd yr,avg like 37ppg his rookie yr and avg like 45ppg his 5 or 6th season, do you get the basic pattern here? where in the **** is his 'prime'? he avg like 30ppg in his 10th season, where is his 'prime'?

SHAQ didnt hit his prime until 2003? wow
a player takes 10yrs to reach his prime? well of course now since BEAN entered the league he makes all the rules up

and just to think the avg professional sports shelf life is 3-5yrs on avg, but i get it 10yrs to hit your 'prime', wow

im not surprised it took BEAN 10yrs to reach his 'prime', im just trying to figure out since BRON has won 3 NBA MVP's in his first 9yrs that once he reaches your 'prime'(10yrs in) will he win'em out for rest of his career because im sure he will have a better 'prime' than his first 10yrs in getting his feet wet, along with 3finals app.

psd is the greatest place to learn about backup players turn allworldtop5ever

3RDASYSTEM
02-03-2013, 07:48 PM
NBA players are not measured by championships. You also don't get the impact Shaq had on defenses. During his prime, defenses didn't give a **** if a wing beat them, it was still a better option to absolutely load the side of the floor Shaq was on and let a guard shoot away. Shaq's impact is such that he changed entire defensive gameplans every single time a team played them. Kobe was the huge benefactor. Shaq was the best player on the Lakers 3 runs, and was even better than Kobe his first couple of seasons away.

These BEANfiens are acting like he went up against a perimeter young tandem of ARTEST/BOWEN or PRINCE(see 04Finals)/MARION combo and was getting SHAQ/FISH open 3's/dunks....but it was SHAQ getting doubled by twintower combo of DUNCAN/DROB and him and FISH got off

i've never seen a player get tripleteamed before the ball crossed halfcourt, yea that SHAQ that BEAN played with during his 8yr career,the same SHAQ that LA dropped 136mill on freeagency, so he was MVP candidate in like 95,and was established as a top C/player day1 rookie yr

but i get it, the backupguard finally reached SHAQ's level after after 7yrs in(2003), pure comedy

PURDUE-KERR are greater(rings) than a combo of WILT-AI 10-2 ring lead,but we all know whos better individually as a combo right, whos a franchise combo right?

ring talk is so dry and media driven

jayjay33
02-03-2013, 09:56 PM
NBA players are not measured by championships. You also don't get the impact Shaq had on defenses. During his prime, defenses didn't give a **** if a wing beat them, it was still a better option to absolutely load the side of the floor Shaq was on and let a guard shoot away. Shaq's impact is such that he changed entire defensive gameplans every single time a team played them. Kobe was the huge benefactor. Shaq was the best player on the Lakers 3 runs, and was even better than Kobe his first couple of seasons away.


Thats ridiculous, Then why didn't he win a championship before Kobe? If the whole damn team is guarding shaq and they didn't give a **** about anybody else shaq should have 10 rings. That's so over the top. Shaq and kobe both got a ton if attention.

An nobody mentions the entire offense of opposing team was to exploit shaq. Probably 70% of their points came from his atrocious pick and roll defense.

mngopher35
02-04-2013, 12:12 AM
It's not a small sample size, it is the entire playoffs. I understand it isn't a ton of games, but NBA players are measured by rings so what sample size would you like me to examine? Playoffs are always a much smaller sample size, but yet people value them so highly.

Those numbers are ridiculously close. It's funny that you act like I am clearly wrong after putting them up. Watch the games. I was a bigger Shaq fan at the time and thought Kobe was better. Of course a guard is going to have a lower TS%. Kobe took any shot with time winding down because Shaq needed like 8 seconds at least to work in the post. Kobe was also the only one on the team that could create his own shot and seldom had Fisher set him up for an easy look. Kobe occupied everyone's attention on the perimeter, he would have had a better TS% if he had a guard better than Fisher

It's not the enitre playoffs though, you said to exclude the finals because shaq played better in the finals. He was also better in the regular seasons which do matter as well. You said kobe was the better player the last year and said the reason was he had a better playoffs minus the finals. I'm showing you he didn't, even if it is close its still in shaq's favor. As hawkeye mentioned all of this is when the defense was more focused on Shaq. If players are measure by rings then let's look at the finals only to see who the better player was and not just ignore it (shaq destroys kobe here). Your telling me to watch the games when your the one who is arguing Kobe being the better player in 2002 when it's pretty common knowledge shaq was the better of the two players at the time (which is expected because it was his prime and kobe was young). This is why Kobe fans get a bad rep on this site, make ridiculous statements and then tell people to watch the games if they disagree...

TornadoOfSouls
02-04-2013, 05:24 AM
Thats ridiculous, Then why didn't he win a championship before Kobe?

Probably because he never had a championship calibre coach before. And lol at anyone thinking Kobe was a meaningful contributor to their first championship. You could replace him with any of the top tier shooting guards, at the time, and Lakers still win the 2000 title. People make the mistake of overrating Kobe's importance and underrating Phil Jackson's.

jayjay33
02-04-2013, 03:30 PM
Probably because he never had a championship calibre coach before. And lol at anyone thinking Kobe was a meaningful contributor to their first championship. You could replace him with any of the top tier shooting guards, at the time, and Lakers still win the 2000 title. People make the mistake of overrating Kobe's importance and underrating Phil Jackson's.



That is by far the dumbest statment ever written on the psd, EVER. :facepalm:

LAcowBOMBER
02-05-2013, 06:45 AM
It's not the enitre playoffs though, you said to exclude the finals because shaq played better in the finals. He was also better in the regular seasons which do matter as well. You said kobe was the better player the last year and said the reason was he had a better playoffs minus the finals. I'm showing you he didn't, even if it is close its still in shaq's favor. As hawkeye mentioned all of this is when the defense was more focused on Shaq. If players are measure by rings then let's look at the finals only to see who the better player was and not just ignore it (shaq destroys kobe here). Your telling me to watch the games when your the one who is arguing Kobe being the better player in 2002 when it's pretty common knowledge shaq was the better of the two players at the time (which is expected because it was his prime and kobe was young). This is why Kobe fans get a bad rep on this site, make ridiculous statements and then tell people to watch the games if they disagree...

Shaq dominated the Nets in the year that is basically being discussed here. I acknowledge that, but if you think that was the most important series of those playoffs you are crazy. Shaq dominated Aaron Williams and a bunch of other scrubs. Kobe and the whole team differed to him because it was so easy it only made sense to. If players are measured by rings, let's look at rings, not numbers in the finals that weren't even the most difficult series of the playoffs.

You also say the defense was more focused on Shaq. That isn't really a true statement. Yes Shaq would tend to get doubled when he had the ball in the post, but that happens with any good big man. Shaq had one thing that he did(get the ball in the post and do work) and he did it better than anyone I have ever seen, but don't act like a defensive gameplan formed around stopping Shaq is complicated. They tried to deny entry passes and had a guard come over for the double before he got too deep in the post. It wasn't some special D to stop Shaq, it is how everyone guards a good post player.

Don't act like my only response was just go watch the games. You may not agree with me, but stop acting like me saying that Kobe was more important for one playoff run is some outlandish and ridiculous homerish statement. I thought it was true at the time when I liked Shaq more than I liked Kobe. I don't really care if you believe me or not. This is why the NBA forum has a bad rep on here because anytime someone has an opinion that is not the most popular they get jumped all over for being a "blind homer" or "an idiot."

I said my thoughts on this topic, I'd be happy to continue discussing them, but don't try to play the "Kobe fans are all dumb and think he is the greatest" card. I have no problem admitting that Lebron is well on his way to passing Kobe and will barring injury. I have no problem admitting that MJ is better than Kobe. I also have no problem admitting that Shaq was an absolute beast and was the player that got me interested in basketball in the first place. I just think Kobe was more important in one championship run, not a crazy thought and certainly not a homer statement

hidalgo
02-05-2013, 09:20 AM
That is by far the dumbest statment ever written on the psd, EVER. :facepalm:no it's true, replace Kobe with Ray Allen, or Iverson for example, & they'd have won just the same

quade36
02-05-2013, 09:51 AM
Not sure whats been talked about in this thread. But the only real scoring person in the top 5 who also had assists was Jordan. Jordan has played two less seasons than Kobe. He also got a late start in NBA terms by going to college for 3 years. Along with missing a year and a half in early retirement. So it took Kobe 150 more games in his prime to surpass Jordan in assists. I guess thats not a lot. But the real comparison for assists is assist to turnover ratio.

Kobe career is 4.7/3.0
Jordan career is 5.3/2.7

So kudos to him for having the most assists. Mark Jackson has more career assists than Magic Johnson too. Guess that means he was a better ball handler.

ryder78c
02-05-2013, 10:28 AM
Sure. But there aren't too many spot up 6'8 small forwards haha...And by the way, father time is undefeated.

father time always wins but lebron has enough skill to play into his 40's(if he wanted to but he wont)his skill set will be compared to paul pierce in his prime. lebrons career will come to a slow down at age 35 and he'll start getting knee problems and retire by 40

ryder78c
02-05-2013, 10:36 AM
no it's true, replace Kobe with Ray Allen, or Iverson for example, & they'd have won just the same

yeah cuz the refs bet on the game. you could of put ruben patterson on the Lakers at starting SG and Won hell a 11 year old me at the time could of won on the 2000 lakers

jayjay33
02-05-2013, 11:27 AM
That is by far the dumbest statment ever written on the psd, EVER. :facepalm:no it's true, replace Kobe with Ray Allen, or Iverson for example, & they'd have won just the same


1. You don't know if the second part of what he said is true or not. Maybe they win with ray maybe they don't that is guess, not a fact. Not to mention, you could make the same "guess" with shaq and say replace shaq with Duncan, Garnett, Robinson....etc. An the lakers still win. The truth is you have no clue what would happen.

2. An more importantly, He made two separate statements. I was clearly referring to the 1st statement I put in bold as being dumb. Regardless to wether you think ray could have done it or not. That statement was still all-time stupid.

Lakerfan In NY
02-05-2013, 06:22 PM
no it's true, replace Kobe with Ray Allen, or Iverson for example, & they'd have won just the same

If you said T-mac I could understand but AI & Allen? Cmon man!!! AI passes less than Kobe. I guess everyone forgot about the hack a shaq & how Phil use to sit Shaq. Game highlight: So Shaq is on the bench either due to the hack a Shaq or foul trouble(that happened alot) & Ray Allen was your go to guy? Yea right...

OceanSpray
02-05-2013, 06:29 PM
If you said T-mac I could understand but AI & Allen? Cmon man!!! AI passes less than Kobe. I guess everyone forgot about the hack a shaq & how Phil use to sit Shaq. Game highlight: So Shaq is on the bench either due to the hack a Shaq or foul trouble(that happened alot) & Ray Allen was your go to guy? Yea right...

AI passes less than Kobe? He had nearly 8 APG on a crappy team. If he had Shaq, you can bet he will pass more instead of having to score for his team.

I don't see how you put Tracy McGrady ahead of Allen Iverson. Tracy McGrady is overrated. His best season was great but how many of those great seasons did he have? Not saying Tracy McGrady sucks, he's just overrated since many of you would put him above Durant these days.

Allen Iverson could've won more than 3. Tracy I would say two. Allen, I wouldn't know. He's not really that type of player to dominate the way Iverson and Tracy could.

Money_23
02-05-2013, 06:31 PM
AI passes less than Kobe? He had nearly 8 APG on a crappy team. If he had Shaq, you can bet he will pass more instead of having to score for his team.

I don't see how you put Tracy McGrady ahead of Allen Iverson. Tracy McGrady is overrated. His best season was great but how many of those great seasons did he have? Not saying Tracy McGrady sucks, he's just overrated since many of you would put him above Durant these days.

Allen Iverson could've won more than 3. Tracy I would say two. Allen, I wouldn't know. He's not really that type of player to dominate the way Iverson and Tracy could.

lmao, doesn't matter what hypotheticals there are, they aren't better individual players than Kobe, nor do they have the accolades.