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mosesedan
01-31-2013, 03:24 PM
dont know if this was asked already, but who do you guys think got the best of the trade?

Pistons receive: Jose Calderon

Grizzlies receive: Ed Davis, Tayshaun Prince, Austin Daye, Toronto 2nd round pick

Raptors receive: Rudy Gay, Hamed Haddadi

Guppyfighter
01-31-2013, 03:26 PM
There is no conceivable way the Pistons lost this trade.

OceanSpray
01-31-2013, 03:27 PM
You might want to mention the trade that happened. In this case, I believe Toronto got the better trade. Calderon is old and Rudy Gay is still a young star.

abe_froman
01-31-2013, 03:30 PM
i say det.they have a distributor finally and one that will be off the books soon and they can go after smith or whoever with that capspace

Gators123
01-31-2013, 03:36 PM
Tie between Pistons and Grizz.


Pistons finally have a true PG and a more productive player while saving $15M.

Calderon lobs to Drummond :drool: . Hes the kind of PG Monroe and Drummond need.

DeyAce
01-31-2013, 03:41 PM
Detrot for sure. And Gay is overrated

mosesedan
01-31-2013, 03:42 PM
lowry and gay could work, raptors should try giving up derozan/ross and bargnani for millsap, or maybe even josh smith. they have options

kyubi256
01-31-2013, 03:48 PM
I think Detroit got the best of the deal. Calderon is a good player and I think he'll be a good building piece for them. I think Raptors lost as they will expect too much out of Rudy Gay and he won't provide that for them.

The Grizzles did well but lost because chemistry won't be the same.

2-ONE-5
01-31-2013, 03:49 PM
i dont think anyone really lost. Pistons have a shot at the playoffs and Calderon is playing very well this year and is a big expiring deal. Raptors will just become a little better but i cant see them getting worse with this trade, just wanna see how Gay effects Derozans progress. As for the Grizz I think moving Gay was addition by subtraction and they are arguably better without him. They bring in a solid vet in Prince who will fit right in and a decent young backup to him with Daye who sohuld be serviceable at least.

ManRam
01-31-2013, 03:49 PM
Pistons and Grizz won.

Toronto didn't win, I'm just not convinced it's gonna help much...short or long term.

Melo15
01-31-2013, 03:50 PM
Tie between Pistons and Grizz.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. Went with the Grizzlies for voting purposes but Detroit really did well here.

BALLER R
01-31-2013, 03:51 PM
Toronto got the Best player in the trade. But that doesn't mean they won the trade

ryder78c
01-31-2013, 03:59 PM
lowry and gay could work, raptors should try giving up derozan/ross and bargnani for millsap, or maybe even josh smith. they have options I said this same trade in another forum but i said Derozen Bargs Johnson for Millsap and Jefferson and pick

Tony_Starks
01-31-2013, 04:05 PM
torronto

selassi3
01-31-2013, 04:07 PM
Mannn I guess as soon as you mention a player and the Raptors it's just never positive. Rudy Gay is by far the best player in the trade. As far as who won the trade, too early to predict anything however I believe Toronto did.

Detroit- Jose Calderon is 31 years old, and as nice and pure as a PG he is, he still cannot play defense, which will put Detroit's D in a situation when there scrapping to rotate just to cover Jose lack of guarding. With that being said he's also a free agent at the end of the year, and considering he only knows Toronto since coming from Spain 7 years ago, his house, family is still here and he's pretty much fell in love with the country I can see him back in a Raptor uniform playing whatever role Coach wants him to, just because he wants to see Toronto succeed.

Memphis- I mean you gave away your leading scorer, landed Tayshaun which should provide a more of a role player role at the 3 spot, and received a player in Ed Davis who has only been playing 'good' for about 2 months now. Davis still has no mid range, and has pretty much one post up move, and i've seen players like Tristan Thompson work him. On the plus side he is quick off his feet so blocking and rebounding is a real bonus but offensively still getting better. With that being said the potential is there but you just never know.

Toronto- How they got worse is beyond me. If anyone mentioned Ed Davis, and Jose Calderon for Gay at the start of the season anyone and everyone would of said Bryan Colangelo is ******** for proposing such trade as no one with an NBA brain would accept. Three months into the season and it's exactly what happened. Considering this is probably the best SF this young franchise has ever seen, disregarding his numbers thus far, Rudy Gay is a borderline allstar who despite what anyone thinks is exactly what the Raptors needed. After all how much can anyone outside of this city know about the Toronto Raptors?
and although he hasn't been the most efficient player thus far he's still capable of being a really good player. With Lowry/Demar/Gay/Bargnani/Val the starting lineup should be interesting. You're not guarding any of those 4 players at once. Period.

gwrighter
01-31-2013, 04:07 PM
Det traded for a rental and the Grizz downgraded in talent level how can those teams possibly have won? Take the dollars and cents out of this trade and the Raptors easily won this trade. Raptors picked up Rudy Gay for cheap.

PSD Logic - Cap Space > Rudy Gay

gwrighter
01-31-2013, 04:13 PM
Mannn I guess as soon as you mention a player and the Raptors it's just never positive. Rudy Gay is by far the best player in the trade. As far as who won the trade, too early to predict anything however I believe Toronto did.

That's the issue here. It's funny because nobody will debate you because they know you're right, but are too prideful to admit it.

rocket
01-31-2013, 04:22 PM
Det traded for a rental and the Grizz downgraded in talent level how can those teams possibly have won? Take the dollars and cents out of this trade and the Raptors easily won this trade. Raptors picked up Rudy Gay for cheap.

PSD Logic - Cap Space > Rudy Gay

:laugh2:

rocket
01-31-2013, 04:23 PM
Pistons finally get a true PG, shed 15 mill in cap space, and trade 2 bums off of our team.

I'm not sure we won the trade, but there is no way we lost the trade any bit.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 04:26 PM
many nba fans are jealous the fact that rudy g is a raptor...his prime is just beginning....we'll see what happens...

rocket
01-31-2013, 04:27 PM
Yes we are all jealous of a player that chucks shots to put up points!

oh he also makes 18 mill

selassi3
01-31-2013, 04:36 PM
That's the issue here. It's funny because nobody will debate you because they know you're right, but are too prideful to admit it.

lol....well kudos to you for clearing that air brotha.

selassi3
01-31-2013, 04:38 PM
Yes we are all jealous of a player that chucks shots to put up points!

oh he also makes 18 mill

Kinda what Stuckey/Knight do I guess you gotta hold the ball to score these days....

Oh and your paying that right? Money ain't a problem for Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment who run the Raptors and Leafs if it was they clearly would not of made that move.... So let our management worry about how much Rudy Gay is making and fans just sit back and watch how it all develops.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 04:43 PM
I guess you gotta hold the ball to score....

Oh and your paying that right? Money ain't a problem for Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment who run the Raptors and Leafs if it was they clearly would not of made that move.... So let our management worry about how much Rudy Gay is making and fans just sit back and watch how it all develops.

oh he doesn't know about mlse....thats why he embarrased himself....trust me...lowry, valenciunas, derozan, ross, johnson, and now gay....things just got a bit interesting....

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 04:43 PM
Yes we are all jealous of a player that chucks shots to put up points!

oh he also makes 18 mill

don't make a fool outta urself...pleeeeeease

Blink
01-31-2013, 04:44 PM
Memphis and Detroit did well. If Calderon doesnt want to stay here then he leaves and we draft Trey Burke :).

Dont see how people think Raptors lost. What player like Rudy Gay is going to sign there.

If anybody loses this trade. People truly dont understand how bad Austin Daye truly is.
In the Pistons forum no other term is used other than Stuckey sucks & lol Daye.

selassi3
01-31-2013, 04:45 PM
oh he doesn't know about mlse....thats why he embarrased himself....trust me...lowry, valenciunas, derozan, ross, johnson, and now gay....things just got a bit interesting....

As a fan of Toronto, not only the Raptors....I hear you....interesting is quite the right word....we shall see...

TopsyTurvy
01-31-2013, 04:47 PM
Cap Space > Rudy Gay

You can't ignore the dealing of Speights as it also relates to the Grizzlies cap woes and their luxury tax situation. I think the Grizzlies won in that they got productive role players back and an opportunity to get the ball back into their current cadre of stars, all while significantly dropping their cap number.

rocket
01-31-2013, 04:51 PM
:laugh: I just love fans that are so clueless that they think they are smart LOLOLOL

Well of course they are butthurt Raptor fans lmfao. (no offense to other raptor fans)

Gay is not worth 18 mill. Your going to trade away a piece of the future in Ed Davis have gay for a couple of season, miss the playoffs, and then lose Gay in Free Agency.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 05:03 PM
:laugh: I just love fans that are so clueless that they think they are smart LOLOLOL

Well of course they are butthurt Raptor fans lmfao. (no offense to other raptor fans)

Gay is not worth 18 mill. Your going to trade away a piece of the future in Ed Davis have gay for a couple of season, miss the playoffs, and then lose Gay in Free Agency.

unlike the detroit pistons are doing any better....

dtmagnet
01-31-2013, 05:08 PM
Based on what was given up, I think Detroit is the "winner." Really don't see how people think the Grizz won this trade though, yes they saved money but their team got worse. Verdict is still out on how Gay will progress in Toronto.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2013, 05:15 PM
In order for me, Detroit, Memphis, Toronto. Detroit got a reliable rental to help fix their assist to turnover ratio and hit jumpers, while shedding Prince's deal. Memphis upgraded its depth, and wing defense. While it lost a little scoring, it gets better 3 point shooting, and financial flexibility. Toronto got a bad deal here. Gay is not an all star talent, at all, but is paid like a perennial all star player.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2013, 05:17 PM
Based on what was given up, I think Detroit is the "winner." Really don't see how people think the Grizz won this trade though, yes they saved money but their team got worse. Verdict is still out on how Gay will progress in Toronto.

I don't know if they end up worse man, Gay was not playing well this year, with a pathetic PER, TS%, offensive rating, and he was being given way too many shots. For all his athletic ability, he just loves to shoot long jumpers, which he simply isn't good at.

ACanadian
01-31-2013, 05:21 PM
90% of the people here are homers, whats the point?
As a NBA fan, I think long term, Grizzlies won, short mid-term Toronto won and Detroit will have little benefits besides money (which they can't use in FA because its Detroit) but with that extra 15mill they can over pay their players that don't want to stay there, now thats some Charlie Sheen winning right there...

selassi3
01-31-2013, 05:22 PM
I don't know if they end up worse man, Gay was not playing well this year, with a pathetic PER, TS%, offensive rating, and he was being given way too many shots. For all his athletic ability, he just loves to shoot long jumpers, which he simply isn't good at.

What about the other 6 years? lol Buddy let the man play a full season before you attack him. I understand he isn't in the U.S anymore he has moved up North let the man and his paycheck be... and like I said let MLSE worry about the bills.....You fans just sit back and watch

selassi3
01-31-2013, 05:28 PM
:laugh: I just love fans that are so clueless that they think they are smart LOLOLOL

Well of course they are butthurt Raptor fans lmfao. (no offense to other raptor fans)

Gay is not worth 18 mill. Your going to trade away a piece of the future in Ed Davis have gay for a couple of season, miss the playoffs, and then lose Gay in Free Agency.

Well, I see where your coming from.. However, not worth 18 mill maybe not so far this year, but what about the other 6 years he was in the league? Like I said, It is not for you to worry about how the Toronto Raptors are paying bills Ed Davis buddy before two months ago you knew nothin about him, so quit lying to yourself and pretending like you were following him since a Tar Heel. They stil have Amir at the 4 and Bargnani along with Acy. Like I said, he has an upside, there is potential there but you just don't know how solid he will be. If you think other wise watch the 176 games he has played as a professional. And finally, you are no one to predict the future, your going with the general assumption he will leave but fact is you really don't know what will happen with his future.

In other words............

Rudy Gay > Jose/Ed Davis
OR
And if you really want = Combined

Hawkeye15
01-31-2013, 05:30 PM
What about the other 6 years? lol Buddy let the man play a full season before you attack him. I understand he isn't in the U.S anymore he has moved up North let the man and his paycheck be... and like I said let MLSE worry about the bills.....You fans just sit back and watch

He has been in a 3 year regression now, at age 26. With the new CBA, Gay is a contract that will get your team in trouble possibly. $37 million for a decent starting wing for the next 2 years. Raps fans get to sit back and be pissed now.

Bob_at_york
01-31-2013, 05:31 PM
I voted for the pistons. They gave up two pieces that didn't fit in with their long-term plans and cut salary. Those also got some vetern leadership for the next 3 months that will help players develop offensively.

2-ONE-5
01-31-2013, 05:32 PM
Gay has never been worth 18 mil a year nor will he be in the future. enjoy 1 or 2 first round sweeps in Toronto. Grizz will still contend so no way they lose here

Sly Guy
01-31-2013, 05:44 PM
detroit good a good piece to run their offense with. I'm not sold on what the raps gave up to get Gay. Memphis doesn't become a contender by trading part of their core. Detroit got the best of this deal.

mrker
01-31-2013, 06:00 PM
Who won THIS trade? Raptors got the best player, so on the surface them,
BUT this trade will be graded a whole better once we see what each team does with there new found pieces?

Pistons now have cap space, thats a good thing

Grizzles have cap flexabilty moving forward also good to make other moves,

Raptors got a good to great player for a expiring contract and a player at postion where they are deep,

Now once those teams show why they made this deal and use those assests to up-grade or just to save money, then you can tell,


If the grizzles just pocket the saving, the owners won put the fans lost
If the pistons have anther Ben gordan, charlie. V summer, well they lose again

If the raptors can't add more high-end talent around gay, then he walks in 2 seasons, raptors lose big-time cause he cost so much

Guppyfighter
01-31-2013, 06:04 PM
Mannn I guess as soon as you mention a player and the Raptors it's just never positive. Rudy Gay is by far the best player in the trade. As far as who won the trade, too early to predict anything however I believe Toronto did.

Detroit- Jose Calderon is 31 years old, and as nice and pure as a PG he is, he still cannot play defense, which will put Detroit's D in a situation when there scrapping to rotate just to cover Jose lack of guarding. With that being said he's also a free agent at the end of the year, and considering he only knows Toronto since coming from Spain 7 years ago, his house, family is still here and he's pretty much fell in love with the country I can see him back in a Raptor uniform playing whatever role Coach wants him to, just because he wants to see Toronto succeed.

Memphis- I mean you gave away your leading scorer, landed Tayshaun which should provide a more of a role player role at the 3 spot, and received a player in Ed Davis who has only been playing 'good' for about 2 months now. Davis still has no mid range, and has pretty much one post up move, and i've seen players like Tristan Thompson work him. On the plus side he is quick off his feet so blocking and rebounding is a real bonus but offensively still getting better. With that being said the potential is there but you just never know.

Toronto- How they got worse is beyond me. If anyone mentioned Ed Davis, and Jose Calderon for Gay at the start of the season anyone and everyone would of said Bryan Colangelo is ******** for proposing such trade as no one with an NBA brain would accept. Three months into the season and it's exactly what happened. Considering this is probably the best SF this young franchise has ever seen, disregarding his numbers thus far, Rudy Gay is a borderline allstar who despite what anyone thinks is exactly what the Raptors needed. After all how much can anyone outside of this city know about the Toronto Raptors?
and although he hasn't been the most efficient player thus far he's still capable of being a really good player. With Lowry/Demar/Gay/Bargnani/Val the starting lineup should be interesting. You're not guarding any of those 4 players at once. Period.

Detroit didn't do it for just his play. They gave up someone with a three year contract for someone who is expiring.

Toronto is now starting bargs again, they lose cap flexibility due to multitudes of bad contract, and they will still miss the playoffs. Obvious win here for the Raptors. They were ninth in offensive efficiency since he has been out, very bad with him in.

Good job Raptors.

Deception
01-31-2013, 06:10 PM
unlike the detroit pistons are doing any better....

We're in a better position than the Raptors. We free'd up lost of cap space to make a signing, for someone like hmm.. OJ Mayo? And our draft pick as well.
Calderon
Knight/Draft Pick
Mayo
Monroe
Drummond

And that's just saying we do sign someone like that. Regardless, we end up in a good situation, instead of Toronto where they're taking a risk. A team who signed Fields, Drafted Ross, and traded for Gay. Even if Gay works out, they brought in players of all the same position.

So don't make a fool outta' yourself... Please

JasonJohnHorn
01-31-2013, 06:12 PM
I think all three teams made out pretty well.

Detroit got to shed a contract. They have Magette and Singler to play SF and didn't need a third guy. So they traded off a big contract for an expiring, and they get a traditional PG (who is still very tradable and could bring them some nice assets). It would be interesting to see what this team can get done with a traditional PG though.

Memphis got Ed Davis in the trade, which is nice since they let speights go and needed to add some depth the front court. He's a young player with promise on a rookie contract. They also got Prince back, who is cheaper than Gay, and he has championship experience and is a great defender on the wing, which will come in handy should they meet up with Kobe or Durant in the post season, or LBJ. But they will miss the fact that Gay could create his own shot. Still, they are paying out less money now and the team I think is at least as good as they were before the trade, and perhaps better defensively now.

Toronto got a legit All-Star caliber player. Will he make them better? I dunno. His FG% is down this year, and in Toronto he will get a lot of attention from defenses. And it seems like TO has too many SFs/SGs. I like Gay a lot as a player, but I don't think he's good enough to turn things around in Toronto by himself. Lowry and Gay are a nice combo, but not as nice as a lot of other combos out there, and unless the Raps can get something back for Bargnani soon, the Raptors aren't going to have much to work with this season or next since they already traded their first-round pick away. As a Raps fan I am not optimistic that this trade is going to make the team any better.


Detroit made out well. Memphis made out well, and Toronto got the best player in the deal.

Guppyfighter
01-31-2013, 06:13 PM
If Celtics blow it up and Bynum remains out, they can get the eight seed. Pistons can do this.

Deception
01-31-2013, 06:13 PM
I voted for the pistons. They gave up two pieces that didn't fit in with their long-term plans and cut salary. Those also got some vetern leadership for the next 3 months that will help players develop offensively.

This exactly. Everyone who thought it was a bad trade because we lost Prince when all Pistons fans were counting down for his contract to end. He messed with the development of Knight trying to run the offense through him. Pistons got rid of two contracts for an expiring who hopefully helps mentor Knight's development into a PG

Guppyfighter
01-31-2013, 06:14 PM
This exactly. Everyone who thought it was a bad trade because we lost Prince when all Pistons fans were counting down for his contract to end. He messed with the development of Knight trying to run the offense through him. Pistons got rid of two contracts for an expiring who hopefully helps mentor Knight's development into a PG

I don't think anyone thinks this is a bad trade for the Pistons. They are easily the slam dunk winner of this trade.

Deception
01-31-2013, 06:19 PM
I don't think anyone thinks this is a bad trade for the Pistons. They are easily the slam dunk winner of this trade.


Det traded for a rental and the Grizz downgraded in talent level how can those teams possibly have won? Take the dollars and cents out of this trade and the Raptors easily won this trade. Raptors picked up Rudy Gay for cheap.

PSD Logic - Cap Space > Rudy Gay

This guy does.

TheNumber37
01-31-2013, 06:21 PM
griz. when you dump and overpaid, overrated player and pick up prince, a prospect and a pick.

Gay won't even stay in Toronto.

The pistons are bored.

Raps08-09 Champ
01-31-2013, 06:28 PM
Grizzlies won. Pistons and Raptors are tied. If Calderon resigns for the Pistions, I would give the Pistons 2nd place.

Raps08-09 Champ
01-31-2013, 06:28 PM
griz. when you dump and overpaid, overrated player and pick up prince, a prospect and a pick.

Gay won't even stay in Toronto.

The pistons are bored.

You underestimate us. Whatever teams offer Gay, we'll double it.

Hellcrooner
01-31-2013, 06:32 PM
mmm, teams got what they wanted, the three of them.

And i expect a Moderate increase of W for the three of them.

So.

No one lost?

At least SHORT team i think so.

Long term im not to sold on Raptors overpaying for several players.

Borough
01-31-2013, 06:37 PM
Pistons didnt give up too much for Jose Calderon, a terrific leader that is efficient and shoots with a high percentage at the line

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 06:47 PM
Grizzlies won. Pistons and Raptors are tied. If Calderon resigns for the Pistions, I would give the Pistons 2nd place.

with the roster they have....not even close....i put my money on calderon coming back to TO

Guppyfighter
01-31-2013, 06:50 PM
with the roster they have....not even close....i put my money on calderon coming back to TO

Guys, this was for the expiring deal. Pistons accomplished what they wanted. Shed a bad contract.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 06:52 PM
Guys, this was for the expiring deal. Pistons accomplished what they wanted. Shed a bad contract.

don't forget...stuckey is a free agent in 2014...so would they have to rely on knight as their pg for the future...i don't know about that...hes too inconsistent....so they have stuckey, knight and calderon.....i don't know how are they going to fit 3 pgs

Guppyfighter
01-31-2013, 06:52 PM
don't forget...stuckey is a free agent too this off season...so would they have to rely on knight as their pg for the future...i don't know about that...hes too inconsistent

There are always more PG's. The mistake will be if they overpay for another PG.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 06:53 PM
There are always more PG's. The mistake will be if they overpay for another PG.

remember, dumars signed gordon and villenueva for a lot of money... i question dumars at times....and he gave away amir johnson for carlos delfino...which to me is a big mistake

Corey
01-31-2013, 06:55 PM
many nba fans are jealous the fact that rudy g is a raptor...his prime is just beginning....we'll see what happens...

He's entering his prime?

That's interesting considering he's having his worst offensive season as a professional.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 06:56 PM
He's entering his prime?

That's interesting considering he's having his worst offensive season as a professional.

thats the main point, hes only 26, and hes only going to get better....its just that the grizzles don't have a choice, they can't afford him

Guppyfighter
01-31-2013, 06:57 PM
thats the main point, hes only 26, and hes only going to get better....its just that the grizzles don't have a choice, they can't afford him

Why has he gotten worse then?

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 07:00 PM
his numbers didn't slip by much...its just that they have randolph, gasol, and conley scoring too....

Raps08-09 Champ
01-31-2013, 07:06 PM
with the roster they have....not even close....i put my money on calderon coming back to TO

Doubt it. Lowry's the man now. Calderon wants to be a starter on a playoff team. He might go to Dallas for the MLE.

Guppyfighter
01-31-2013, 07:06 PM
his numbers didn't slip by much...its just that they have randolph, gasol, and conley scoring too....

Efficiency doesn't go down with more options.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 07:13 PM
Efficiency doesn't go down with more options.

i know, thats why alot of ppl don't understand about this situation....rudy still lead the team in scoring

Guppyfighter
01-31-2013, 07:14 PM
i know, thats why alot of ppl don't understand about this situation....rudy still lead the team in scoring

And taking way too many shots. That's not a good thing. He's either a bad scorer or a ball hog. Your choice.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 07:14 PM
now im hearing that calderon might be on the move again

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-31-2013, 07:14 PM
call me crazy but i think the grizzlies got a PHENOMENAL deal.

gay is probably one of the most inconsistent players this season.

dont blame memphis for pulling the trigger. not only is prince a defensive minded player, but he can also knock down the 3 ball. i like the deal.

ed davis is a young player that can easily learn from zbo and marc and he is already a pretty effecient player who will only improve.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 07:15 PM
And taking way too many shots. That's not a good thing. He's either a bad scorer or a ball hog. Your choice.

thats why theres room for improvement.....when a player like rudy gay is at his beginning of his prime, he can figure his mistakes and improve......only time will tell

Gators123
01-31-2013, 07:16 PM
now im hearing that calderon might be on the move again

You heard wrong.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 07:18 PM
You heard wrong.

trust me...i know....it doesn't make sense for the pistons.....he won't get any minutes while stuckey, knight, and bynum are around

iam brett favre
01-31-2013, 07:22 PM
Loser of this trade: Rudy Gay

Chronz
01-31-2013, 07:23 PM
trust me...i know....it doesn't make sense for the pistons.....he won't get any minutes while stuckey, knight, and bynum are around
Im pretty sure hes the Detroit fan. And why mention Stuckey? He doesn't play anywhere near as much PG as he used to.

mark1125
01-31-2013, 07:35 PM
I stopped readng once folks started insulting and using to word "butthurt". Those are the guys that are clueless and insult to cover it up. Always have to annoint a winner and loser.

This is a classic case of all parties winning. Not see how anyone "lost" in this deal. As of today, it is win-win-win. We shall see what the future holds.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 07:42 PM
Im pretty sure hes the Detroit fan. And why mention Stuckey? He doesn't play anywhere near as much PG as he used to.

stuckey was suppose to be the successor of chancey billups...however that was never the case...he is still classified as a pg

Gators123
01-31-2013, 07:59 PM
trust me...i know....it doesn't make sense for the pistons.....he won't get any minutes while stuckey, knight, and bynum are around

Calderon is by far the best PG on the roster. I think we rank 29th in Assist/Turnover ratio. Calderon will get plenty of minutes.

Stuckey won't play any PG the rest of the season. Knight will play both the 1 and 2.

Even some Pistons beat writers said Calderon will start right away.

Deception
01-31-2013, 08:02 PM
stuckey was suppose to be the successor of chancey billups...however that was never the case...he is still classified as a pg

Yet he plays as a SG. Don't try telling Piston fans what position their players play. We know Stuckey never panned out to what many expected but it happens to all teams.

Calderon is expected to start away, I don't understand why you think you know a teams entire rotation plans and you don't even follow. Stop talking, you just sound dumber every post that you write.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 08:02 PM
Calderon is by far the best PG on the roster. I think we rank 29th in Assist/Turnover ratio. Calderon will get plenty of minutes.

Stuckey won't play any PG the rest of the season. Knight will play both the 1 and 2.

calderon will end up playing for a contender, not for a pretender....its bound to happen....with monroe, drummond, knight, singler......the pistons are rebuilding....and on top that, calderon is the oldest player for the pistons...

DR_1
01-31-2013, 08:10 PM
I think Toronto did well, Memphs did OK, and Detroit was alright. Not too high on Calderon because of his lack of defense.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 08:12 PM
I think Toronto did well, Memphs did OK, and Detroit was alright. Not too high on Calderon because of his lack of defense.

defense wins games

Hawkeye15
01-31-2013, 08:49 PM
thats the main point, hes only 26, and hes only going to get better....its just that the grizzles don't have a choice, they can't afford him

He is 26 with 7 seasons under his belt, and on year 3 of regression. Not sure how he gets much better.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 08:50 PM
He is 26 with 7 seasons under his belt, and on year 3 of regression. Not sure how he gets much better.

well, ask lebron james that question...he has 9 and a half season under his belt....and it took him 9 seasons to earn a title...

Hawkeye15
01-31-2013, 08:51 PM
calderon will end up playing for a contender, not for a pretender....its bound to happen....with monroe, drummond, knight, singler......the pistons are rebuilding....and on top that, calderon is the oldest player for the pistons...

duh dude, the Pistons unloaded Prince's crappy deal and got a huge upgrade at PG, even as a rental, something they can address this summer. They didn't make this trade for any other reason than the two I just listed. I highly doubt they are going to retain Calderon.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2013, 08:52 PM
well, ask lebron james that question...he has 9 and a half season under his belt....and it took him 9 seasons to earn a title...

that is arguably the worst comparison I have ever read here. Gay's numbers are that of an average player, literally. Statistically speaking, the best player in this trade was Ed Davis. Rudy Gay was a fringe all star vote getter 3 seasons ago, not even remotely close since. LeBron has been a superstar since year 2.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 09:00 PM
that is arguably the worst comparison I have ever read here. Gay's numbers are that of an average player, literally. Statistically speaking, the best player in this trade was Ed Davis. Rudy Gay was a fringe all star vote getter 3 seasons ago, not even remotely close since. LeBron has been a superstar since year 2.

first of all, u didn't get my point,...the reason why i brought this up is because many critics were saying that lebron would never get a ring...and the critics were wrong at the end of the day....as for rudy gay....he has a hell lot of basketball in him...he has superstar potential....as for ed davis.....he not much of an offensive player......and if he wants to be a superstar...he needs to work on his offense a lot harder than expected......hes more of a rebounder....and another thing....the raptors are now up there when it comes to athleticism....

Hawkeye15
01-31-2013, 09:06 PM
first of all, u didn't get my point,...the reason why i brought this up is because many critics were saying that lebron would never get a ring...and the critics were wrong at the end of the day....

Still not getting what that has to do with me saying Rudy has seen his prime, he is in it, he is not getting better, and the comparison has nothing to do with my statement.


as for rudy gay....he has a hell lot of basketball in him...he has superstar potential....

Disagree. He has nice starter potential, with the ability to create a shot at any time. He is never, and I mean never, going to be a superstar. You can quote me on that. Superstars don't throw up TS% of 48 and an offensive rating of 98 in their primes while healthy. Superstars teams don't not skip a beat when he goes down with an injury.


as for ed davis.....he not much of an offensive player......and if he wants to be a superstar...he needs to work on his offense a lot harder than expected......hes more of a rebounder....

Never said Ed Davis would be a superstar. He is simply the best statistical player in this deal.


and another thing....the raptors are now up there when it comes to athleticism....

So?

Sactown
01-31-2013, 09:08 PM
Seems like they all kind of lost?

Seems like each team kinda cluster ****ed their rosters lol.

Only reason I can think of for this trade is.

Memphis new ownership wants to cut salary and start over, and if that's true Zach will be gone soon, because this IMO doesn't make them more of a contender by adding 2PF's and a SF... since now they have 5PF'S, and most the contracts they took on are expiring. Seems like they're hitting the reset button.

Detroit clearly does this to clear out salary so they Austin Day and Prince into an 11 Mil expiring contract.. I doubt they really needed a 4 guard, especially since the other 3 can play minutes at PG.

and Toronto does this out of desperation perhaps? Gay isn't a player who's going to elevate your team into a contender when you're already so young and bad (no offense) seems like their GM is trying to get off the hot seat? if he was on it? not sure.

RLundi
01-31-2013, 09:18 PM
The Spurs.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 09:46 PM
Still not getting what that has to do with me saying Rudy has seen his prime, he is in it, he is not getting better, and the comparison has nothing to do with my statement.


Disagree. He has nice starter potential, with the ability to create a shot at any time. He is never, and I mean never, going to be a superstar. You can quote me on that. Superstars don't throw up TS% of 48 and an offensive rating of 98 in their primes while healthy. Superstars teams don't not skip a beat when he goes down with an injury.



Never said Ed Davis would be a superstar. He is simply the best statistical player in this deal.


So?

i know ur jealous with this whole thing.....ur saying a 26 year old can't improve on their game.....look at iguodala, pierce, etc.....they were late bloomers....and ur sayin that rudy can't get any better....if thats the case, that means is that ur not watching enough basketball......another reason rudy gay is a plus is because it would catch attention for other players coming to toronto....its a nice mix.....and if u say that statistics are better on ed davis...then ur out of ur mind...the reason the grizzlies wanted ed davis is because they will most likely shop randolph during the off-seasonand not only that, u can't compare rudy gay to ed davis...they are completely different players with different skills and assets

rocket
01-31-2013, 10:03 PM
don't forget...stuckey is a free agent in 2014...so would they have to rely on knight as their pg for the future...i don't know about that...hes too inconsistent....so they have stuckey, knight and calderon.....i don't know how are they going to fit 3 pgs

Stuckey isn't a PG. Knight isn't a PG. And Detroit writers are saying that we will bring back Jose at a good price.


trust me...i know....it doesn't make sense for the pistons.....he won't get any minutes while stuckey, knight, and bynum are around

Jose won't get minutes? Trust you? He's ****ing starting tomorrow.

da ThRONe
01-31-2013, 10:04 PM
I think the Raptors won. This league more than anything is about talent. They got the most talented player at a position of need. I could see Gay having a similar impact in Toronto as Harden is having in Houston. Gay will be featured more in Tor than he was in Mem which should see his effiency go up.

Pistons would be 2nd. They shed salary (with the potential to shed even more with Calderon expiring) and bring in the one thing they don't have a true PG.

To me the Grizzs gain the least. You take a key piece of a quality playoff team mid-season. Only to shed like 8 million over 2 seasons.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
01-31-2013, 10:13 PM
many nba fans are jealous the fact that rudy g is a raptor...his prime is just beginning....we'll see what happens...

If anyone is jealous of Rudy Gay being traded to the Raptors you'd have to be a Bobcats fan.

Anyways, I would say the Grizzlies won this.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:16 PM
Stuckey isn't a PG. Knight isn't a PG. And Detroit writers are saying that we will bring back Jose at a good price.



Jose won't get minutes? Trust you? He's ****ing starting tomorrow.

are you sure about that...let me ask you a question....if stuckey isn't a point guard, and knight isn't a point guard....then why did they draft knight?....and they both of them are listed as point guard....and if they both were playing sg....so what about kyle singler, kim english and corey magette

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/roster/_/name/det/detroit-pistons

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:17 PM
If anyone is jealous of Rudy Gay being traded to the Raptors you'd have to be a Bobcats fan.

Anyways, I would say the Grizzlies won this.

ur blind...and if u really think the grizzlies won....look at the score

selassi3
01-31-2013, 10:19 PM
ur blind...and if u really think the grizzlies won....look at the score

lol

B'sCeltsPatsSox
01-31-2013, 10:22 PM
ur blind...and if u really think the grizzlies won....look at the score

I'm the blind one yet you can't notice that the Grizzlies aren't even playing with the players that they acquired in the trade yet.

But yes, everyone in Memphis should panic. (http://www.elevenwarriors.com/sites/default/files/images/users/PharmBuck/ERBDY%20PANIC.gif)

Guppyfighter
01-31-2013, 10:22 PM
ur blind...and if u really think the grizzlies won....look at the score

Ever heard of a sample size?

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:24 PM
I'm the blind one yet you can't notice that the Grizzlies aren't even playing with the players that they acquired in the trade yet.

But yes, everyone in Memphis should panic. (http://www.elevenwarriors.com/sites/default/files/images/users/PharmBuck/ERBDY%20PANIC.gif)

what difference its gonna make when they arrive....they only scored 34 points....and mark my words....gsw will go ahead of memphis...

championships
01-31-2013, 10:24 PM
IMO It was the Grizz. They shed salary while improving their defense.

That Defense is going to be hard to score to on

Chronz
01-31-2013, 10:25 PM
I think the Raptors won. This league more than anything is about talent. They got the most talented player at a position of need. I could see Gay having a similar impact in Toronto as Harden is having in Houston. Gay will be featured more in Tor than he was in Mem which should see his effiency go up.
I've seen several people make this comparison. Its not a good one, Harden saw his efficiency decrease as he carried a bigger load but his overall productive worth was much the same. To me thats a sign of growth but its not the same situation that Gay is in. Gay is already chucking, his improvement will come from working in a better offensive system and perhaps from having no pressure on him to win. He cant get any less efficient tho, hes been having a horrid year.



To me the Grizzs gain the least. You take a key piece of a quality playoff team mid-season. Only to shed like 8 million over 2 seasons.

Think the savings is greater but you could be right about them suffering this year.

Chronz
01-31-2013, 10:26 PM
stuckey was suppose to be the successor of chancey billups...however that was never the case...
Yes thats kind of why hes stopped playing PG.


he is still classified as a pg
Based on what tho?

B'sCeltsPatsSox
01-31-2013, 10:26 PM
what difference its gonna make when they arrive....they only scored 34 points

I've seen the NBA forum use 1 game sample sizes to determine trades, but never have I seen one half sample sizes. I guess we've reached this point now.

selassi3
01-31-2013, 10:27 PM
And...........FOR ANYONE SAYING RUDY GAY IS GONE AFTER 2 YEARS.........Actually...........According to Bryan Colangelo Rudy Gay wanted to play for Toronto since the draft, and when speaking to BC yesterday, his reply was, "Why did it take you so long, you should of just drafted me." Who cares who won the trade, who cares how much money Toronto will be spending. Everyone is going to have their own opinion even some people in Toronto don't like the trade. They were never going to land a free agent at his caliber or even better so kudos to BC. We gave up an expiring Jose Calderon who probably may come back to Toronto and player in Ed Davis who potential is high but just wonder how much can his offensive game improve.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:29 PM
Yes thats kind of why hes stopped playing PG.


Based on what tho?

ya calderon will not sign an extension with the pistons....thats for sure....u can hate all you want....numbers don't lie.....hes not going to make much of a difference

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3235/rodney-stuckey

Chronz
01-31-2013, 10:29 PM
Stuckey isn't a PG. Knight isn't a PG. And Detroit writers are saying that we will bring back Jose at a good price.



Jose won't get minutes? Trust you? He's ****ing starting tomorrow.

Nah bro, trust me, hes getting cut tomorrow.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:31 PM
I've seen the NBA forum use 1 game sample sizes to determine trades, but never have I seen one half sample sizes. I guess we've reached this point now.

cuz they are playing with one of the best teams in the west......shaq - " 2 lethal weapons are better than 3 regular weapons"

B'sCeltsPatsSox
01-31-2013, 10:33 PM
cuz they are playing with one of the best teams in the west......shaq - " 2 lethal weapons are better than 3 regular weapons"

And Rudy Gay's inefficient chucking would somehow make it a much closer game?

rocket
01-31-2013, 10:35 PM
are you sure about that...let me ask you a question....if stuckey isn't a point guard, and knight isn't a point guard....then why did they draft knight?....and they both of them are listed as point guard....and if they both were playing sg....so what about kyle singler, kim english and corey magette

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/roster/_/name/det/detroit-pistons

This whole POST is just LUL. Stuckey hasn't played PG this whole season. LMFAO... they are listed as PG so they must be PG's LOLOL you must have hit rock bottom. Knight is a 2. He had 31 points and 0 assists the other KNIGHT! Right man right.

Chronz
01-31-2013, 10:35 PM
ya calderon will not sign an extension with the pistons....thats for sure....u can hate all you want....
I dont care what Calderon does. I just make fun of your lack of evidence.



numbers don't lie.....hes not going to make much of a difference

What numbers? Why are you so hard to understand?
Look at the numbers yourself, more than 85% of his playing time comes from playing SG ALONGSIDE the PG's.

Chronz
01-31-2013, 10:37 PM
cuz they are playing with one of the best teams in the west......shaq - " 2 lethal weapons are better than 3 regular weapons"
Yea but Gay wasn't a lethal weapon for them.

rocket
01-31-2013, 10:37 PM
ya calderon will not sign an extension with the pistons....thats for sure....u can hate all you want....numbers don't lie.....hes not going to make much of a difference

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3235/rodney-stuckey

:laugh:

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:38 PM
This whole POST is just LUL. Stuckey hasn't played PG this whole season. LMFAO... they are listed as PG so they must be PG's LOLOL you must have hit rock bottom. Knight is a 2. He had 31 points and 0 assists the other KNIGHT! Right man right.

its not my call who plays pg...i could care less, and according to espn...they both play point guard.....and to be honest with u.....the pistons will continue to sink...

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:38 PM
:laugh:

ur a joke

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:39 PM
Yea but Gay wasn't a lethal weapon for them.

shaq juss said that right now......rudy is a closer...and once the season is over...u will see who will have the last laugh

rocket
01-31-2013, 10:41 PM
its not my call who plays pg...i could care less, and according to espn...they both play point guard.....and to be honest with u.....the pistons will continue to sink...

So your going to tell me that Stuckey is a PG because ESPN.com said he is a PG? But then again he hasn't played at Point Guard one ****ing minute this season. Continue to sink... nah were not a bum team that misses the playoffs year in year out. We actually know how to rebuild. Were clearly improving since we have a shot to make the playoffs this year. We would be in a playoff spot if we didn't blow 12 double digit leads this season. But were a young team that is still learning. Nah I don't think we'll sink

Melo15
01-31-2013, 10:41 PM
This thread is pure gold :laugh2:

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:41 PM
I dont care what Calderon does. I just make fun of your lack of evidence.


What numbers? Why are you so hard to understand?
Look at the numbers yourself, more than 85% of his playing time comes from playing SG ALONGSIDE the PG's.

what are you talking about....i look into at least 10 websites....ur the same guy that made the thread what if lebron was drafted by the spurs.....well this ur answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPmJM5-HSi0

rocket
01-31-2013, 10:43 PM
what are you talking about....i look into at least 10 websites....ur the same guy that made the thread what if lebron was drafted by the spurs.....well this ur answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPmJM5-HSi0

I know your trying really, really hard to be funny with the last part of your post. But that didn't even make sense so just please stop.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:44 PM
So your going to tell me that Stuckey is a PG because ESPN.com said he is a PG? But then again he hasn't played at Point Guard one ****ing minute this season. Continue to sink... nah were not a bum team that misses the playoffs year in year out. We actually know how to rebuild. Were clearly improving since we have a shot to make the playoffs this year. We would be in a playoff spot if we didn't blow 12 double digit leads this season. But were a young team that is still learning. Nah I don't think we'll sink

oh really.....stuckey was suppose to be the pg of the future for the pistons....that never happened....the only positives for the pistons are monroe, drummond, and possibly singler....other than that...i don't see any positives for the pistons.....and wat about villenueva and gordon...man....those signings were such a joke....

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:45 PM
I know your trying really, really hard to be funny with the last part of your post. But that didn't even make sense so just please stop.

why u even arguing....u don't even know ****...ur reasoning don't even make sense

Gators123
01-31-2013, 10:45 PM
its not my call who plays pg...i could care less, and according to espn...they both play point guard.....and to be honest with u.....the pistons will continue to sink...

:laugh2:

Thanks for clearing that up man. The 3+ Pistons fans that have been talking to you are wrong. We don't actually watch them play.

I hope one day we can be as good as the Raptors. We've never had an all-time great like Rudy Gay.

Chronz
01-31-2013, 10:45 PM
shaq juss said that right now......rudy is a closer...and once the season is over...u will see who will have the last laugh
I didn't deny that Shaq said it, Im denying what hes saying. If Rudy is a closer then you can understand why the team felt he was overrated considering his lack of production.

And what do you mean last laugh? Are you trying to say that Rudy Gay would have delivered Memphis a championship? If not then whats the point in laughing at their inevitable demise? I never had them as serious contenders anyways.

Chronz
01-31-2013, 10:46 PM
its not my call who plays pg...i could care less, and according to espn...they both play point guard.....and to be honest with u.....the pistons will continue to sink...
So when hes playing with shorter players, that means they are both PG's?

Either way, why mention him when hes not taking up PG minutes? Hes playing alongside other PG's, therefore he wont take minutes away from Calderon.

Chronz
01-31-2013, 10:49 PM
its not my call who plays pg...i could care less, and according to espn...they both play point guard.....and to be honest with u.....the pistons will continue to sink...

Just curious, when Tim Duncan (the 7 footer who defends and is defended by Centers) played alongside 6"7 Dejaun Blair? Did you believe ESPN when they said Blair was the center?

rocket
01-31-2013, 10:49 PM
oh really.....stuckey was suppose to be the pg of the future for the pistons....that never happened....the only positives for the pistons are monroe, drummond, and possibly singler....other than that...i don't see any positives for the pistons.....and wat about villenueva and gordon...man....those signings were such a joke....

There are so many things that I can come back and say about the Raptors, if you are a fan of them, pretty sure you said you were. (Even though you have a heat logo LOL) But I'm not going to because your just embarrassing your fan base.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:50 PM
I didn't deny that Shaq said it, Im denying what hes saying. If Rudy is a closer then you can understand why the team felt he was overrated considering his lack of production.

And what do you mean last laugh? Are you trying to say that Rudy Gay would have delivered Memphis a championship? If not then whats the point in laughing at their inevitable demise? I never had them as serious contenders anyways.

they took a step back.....they were a top 4 team until yesterday.....now randolph has to do most of the work....daye is nothing much of a shooter...davis is a rebounder, and prince is a defender...and how are they are going to fit them into the system......i could also see denver ahead of them

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:52 PM
There are so many things that I can come back and say about the Raptors, if you are a fan of them, pretty sure you said you were. (Even though you have a heat logo LOL) But I'm not going to because your just embarrassing your fan base.

i don't really care what you say about the raptors.....at the end of the day...they won the trade....and to conclude this...miami will win another championship

Chronz
01-31-2013, 10:52 PM
what are you talking about....i look into at least 10 websites....ur the same guy that made the thread what if lebron was drafted by the spurs.....well this ur answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPmJM5-HSi0

I dont deny your effort, but you need to start looking at the right sites, especially if your not following the teams games. Look at the sites that SHOW YOU who he plays with and how often he plays with PG's.

Again, he played 90+% of his minutes alongside a shorter PG. So why would you bring him up when discussing players who can take minutes from Calderon? The facts are, Calderon plays the PG, the very same position that Stuckey sees very little time in.

Melo15
01-31-2013, 10:54 PM
You guys just don't get it. It's clearly too advanced for you.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 10:55 PM
I dont deny your effort, but you need to start looking at the right sites, especially if your not following the teams games. Look at the sites that SHOW YOU who he plays with and how often he plays with PG's.

Again, he played 90+% of his minutes alongside a shorter PG. So why would you bring him up when discussing players who can take minutes from Calderon? The facts are, Calderon plays the PG, the very same position that Stuckey sees very little time in.

so your saying nba.com and espn.com are illegitamte sources...and not only that....calderon will be on the move.....he'll get his minutes, thats not the issue...well see what happens by trade deadline.....

Chronz
01-31-2013, 10:56 PM
they took a step back.....they were a top 4 team until yesterday.....
They were a top4 team in the West and statistically, the gap between them and the other top3 teams was greater than the gap between them and the teams behind Memphis. In other words, sometimes you got to take a step backwards to take 2 forward. Its just a matter of what they do from here.


now randolph has to do most of the work....daye is nothing much of a shooter...davis is a rebounder, and prince is a defender...and how are they are going to fit them into the system......
They have to change the system, it was a horrible offense anyways. But the hope is that their defense improves enough to keep them from really falling apart.


i could also see denver ahead of them
I always had Denver ahead of them but do you think they will be worse now than Golden State? Maybe even worse than that?

4milesperday
01-31-2013, 10:57 PM
I believe Toronto is the only team that actually got something they need in the trade. The Grizz don't have enough scorers or clutch players to be comfortable enough to trade Rudy Gay IMO. The Pistons just seem to make trades for the sake of making trades, I still question that GM they have because he seems more like he likes to gamble on players rather than make smart basketball decisions. I don't understand how someone can pay Ben Gordon that much money, trade Billups for Iverson (with such close knit team they had), and refuse to draft Carmelo because of Prince (in favor of Darko), and still have a GM job. I had suspicions about the gm after he took a gamble on Rasheed, even though that paid off, it told me a lot about him.

Chronz
01-31-2013, 11:00 PM
so your saying nba.com and espn.com are illegitamte sources...
With regards to the argument at hand, yes. Its why ESPN and NBA writers would cite the proper sources (sites that SHOW YOU ALOT MORE THAN ESPN DOES) in their articles. If you dont believe me then answer this question.


How often does Stuckey play PG vs SG?


and not only that....calderon will be on the move.....he'll get his minutes, thats not the issue...well see what happens by trade deadline.....
Dont care, just trying to help you learn how to back up your arguments.

If Stuckey is listed at PG but actually plays SG, why would you go against the tape and with the unknown sources? Atleast with proper websites you can see the minutes.

KaganRS
01-31-2013, 11:01 PM
You cannot actually be serious about saying some team won a trade - it will take 2+ years to figure this out.

This trade was actually beneficial on different levels for each team.

Toronto - it's hard to get stars to come there because they don't realize Toronto is an amazing place

Detroit- they need plenty of cap space and to rid themselves of crap players ( stuckey and charlie V you're next)

Memphis - under the cap and are able to retool without losing to much.

Some of you are equating winning a trade by the best player involved - that's pretty narrow focused in today's nba as i'm sure most of you are well aware of how the league's financial system works.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 11:01 PM
They were a top4 team in the West and statistically, the gap between them and the other top3 teams was greater than the gap between them and the teams behind Memphis. In other words, sometimes you got to take a step backwards to take 2 forward. Its just a matter of what they do from here.


They have to change the system, it was a horrible offense anyways. But the hope is that their defense improves enough to keep them from really falling apart.


I always had Denver ahead of them but do you think they will be worse now than Golden State? Maybe even worse than that?

another reason why memphis did this trade is because of luxury tax issues...memphis is a small market team...i expect them to trade randolph during the off season....and i don't think daye would be a type of player that will replace gay......im not sure what hollins is going to do...they have to start from scratch...they even got rid of their bench to the cavaliers.....

golden state and denver will face each other during the playoffs.....

dtmagnet
01-31-2013, 11:06 PM
You cannot actually be serious about saying some team won a trade - it will take 2+ years to figure this out.

This trade was actually beneficial on different levels for each team.

Toronto - it's hard to get stars to come there because they don't realize Toronto is an amazing place

Detroit- they need plenty of cap space and to rid themselves of crap players ( stuckey and charlie V you're next)

Memphis - under the cap and are able to retool without losing to much.

Some of you are equating winning a trade by the best player involved - that's pretty narrow focused in today's nba as i'm sure most of you are well aware of how the league's financial system works.

Finally a post that makes sense.

rocket
01-31-2013, 11:06 PM
another reason why memphis did this trade is because of luxury tax issues...memphis is a small market team...i expect them to trade randolph during the off season....and i don't think daye would be a type of player that will replace gay......im not sure what hollins is going to do...they have to start from scratch...they even got rid of their bench to the cavaliers.....

golden state and denver will face each other during the playoffs.....

Daye is a fantastic MVP caliber player. He will be Kevin Durant 2.0

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 11:09 PM
Daye is a fantastic MVP caliber player. He will be Kevin Durant 2.0

ahahahahahahha....keep dreaming

rocket
01-31-2013, 11:14 PM
ahahahahahahha....keep dreaming

:facepalm:

gwrighter
01-31-2013, 11:15 PM
So now Ed Davis is good because he's on another team, & Rudy Gay sucks because he's on the Raptors lol.

Grizzlies will learn why Ed Davis was available and why Terrence Ross was untouchable.

KaganRS
01-31-2013, 11:15 PM
What do you mean ? Austin Daye is better than Kevin Durant ! it's not a dream.

KaganRS
01-31-2013, 11:15 PM
:facepalm:
i know - some people don't understand sarcasm ...

sep11ie
01-31-2013, 11:17 PM
Let's see them play?

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 11:19 PM
:facepalm:

u should be ashamed of yourself...ppl like u are such a joke....

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 11:22 PM
i know - some people don't understand sarcasm ...

another pistons fan....

Gators123
01-31-2013, 11:24 PM
Hey rockbottom, I know how much you like ESPN..

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-130130-31/nba-evaluating-toronto-raptors-trade-rudy-gay


1. Good deal or bad deal for the Grizzlies?

Kevin Arnovitz, ESPN.com: Good deal. The Grizzlies had zero financial flexibility and a bottom-10 offense -- and Rudy Gay was complicit in both. They'll lose nothing defensively at the wing with Tayshaun Prince, and they pick up one of the most promising young frontcourt players in the game in Ed Davis, who will allow them to shop Zach Randolph in the offseason should they choose to.

Chip Crain, 3 Shades of Blue: Great deal, but a sad one just the same. The team was among the highest salaried in the league to start the season. It is now below the luxury tax not just for this year but next as well. For a team with the lowest revenues in the league that is a positive, but you hate to see Gay go just the same.

Dan Feldman, Piston Powered: Good deal. The Grizzles got the most valuable player (Davis) in the deal while cutting significant salary. They might take a step back considering they're downgrading a starting spot while upgrading only a backup spot, but if they were intent on cutting salary, they couldn't have done much better.

Ian Levy, The Two Man Game: Bad deal. It may look different tomorrow, but right now I'm confused. Davis is great, but the value he provides is depressed when he has to fight Randolph, Marc Gasol and Darrell Arthur for frontcourt minutes. I'm not sure Austin Daye and Prince really solve their offensive spacing issues. Mostly, I'm surprised that this was the best deal available.

Blake Murphy, Raptors Republic: Great deal. They save money, which is huge for them, and Prince improves their floor-spacing and wing defense.

Danny Nowell, Portland Roundball Soc.: Good deal. Just short of a great one. The Grizzlies swapped a semi-redundant talent for two big team needs -- efficient depth and shooting -- while saving a lot of money at the same time. This is nice work.

2. Good deal or bad deal for the Raptors?

Arnovitz: Bad deal, because in 18 months Davis will likely be the best player in the deal. Gay is pretty much the big gulp version of DeMar DeRozan -- a tall, inefficient slasher at his position who doesn't move the ball, doesn't shoot all that proficiently and doesn't stand out at the defensive end.

Crain: Bad deal. The Raptors have picked up salary for next season, lost a very valuable player and a good prospect, and landed a player who has yet to live up to his reputation in college or the pros. Gay is a dynamic player but not someone you build a franchise around, even though he is paid like it.

Feldman: Bad deal. The Raptors' four leaders in usage rate -- Rudy Gay, Andrea Bargnani, DeMar DeRozan and Alan Anderson -- all have field goal percentages below the league average. Everyone knows the best way to build a team is by stockpiling low-efficiency and high-priced (Anderson exempted on the latter) scorers. Right?

Levy: It's a wash. Gay has his problems, but he's a huge upgrade over anyone else the Raptors have run out at small forward. It does create a new set of problems on the perimeter, where he and DeRozan give the Raptors one of the worst outside-shooting wing tandems in the league. However, it's hard to criticize the Raptors too much for rolling the dice here.

Murphy: OK deal. They sold high on Jose Calderon and Ed Davis and bought low on Gay, the best player in the deal. Gay is overpaid but he is the best wing the Raptors have had since Vince Carter.

Nowell: Bad deal. Hard to see what the plan is in Toronto, where they are now building around an expensive core of athletic wings with limited creation skills. Perhaps, at least, this is the liberation Kyle Lowry and his army of blogger backers have been seeking his entire career.

3. Good deal or bad deal for the Pistons?

Arnovitz: Good deal. They clear serious cap space going forward and Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe will have a blast playing with Jose Calderon, even if only for 12 weeks.

Crain: Good deal. They got rid of an aging player on a rebuilding team in Prince and jettisoned a player who never reached his potential in Daye. Calderon's expiring deal gives the Pistons more freedom financially moving forward and provides some nice play while he is there.

Feldman: Good deal. The Pistons should be about developing their young talent and acquiring more of it, and this deal helps do both. Calderon will run the pick-and-roll with Drummond and throw entry passes to Monroe in ways no other Piston can. Plus, Calderon's defensive deficiencies should get the rim-protecting Drummond more playing time. After the season, Calderon's expiring contract will allow the Pistons to acquire even more talent.

Levy: Great deal. They saved themselves some money by unloading Prince and get a rental on Calderon for the rest of the season. His savvy, vision and passing can do some powerful things for the development of Brandon Knight and Drummond, and give the Pistons a much better chance of chasing down the Celtics for the No. 8 seed in the East. Where's the downside?

Murphy: Good deal. Giving up on Austin Daye early isn't ideal, but they get out from under Prince's deal, which has three years left on it. Calderon is a good fit with their big men (imagine the Calderon-to-Drummond alley-oops!), but they're now deep at the guard spots.

Nowell: Good deal. They have a hole at the 3 now, but this should allow their current guards to function in the scoring roles, which seems like a more natural fit, and should lead to an endless stream of highlights from Drummond in the pick-and-roll.

4. Whose outlook improves the most because of this deal?

Arnovitz: It might seem confounding to some Grizzlies fans, but Memphis' newfound ability to acquire some depth and maneuver under the cap should give it a nice opportunity to add (and retain) some important pieces in the offseason.

Crain: The homer in me says Memphis, because the Grizzlies receive a talented young forward-center, a second-round draft pick and a small forward who can spread the court to replace Gay. But I have to say Detroit gained the most long-term. Prince is tough to lose, but the freedom to rebuild and give younger players a chance has to be exciting for fans.

Feldman: O.J. Mayo. In five seasons, Mayo has never had an above-average salary. That's about to change. There's a team in Michigan that suddenly has even more cap room and an even greater need for a scoring wing. If the Pistons don't sign Mayo, they'll likely sign another similar player, reducing the supply and raising Mayo's price for another team. Mayo is going to get paid, and how could anyone's outlook improve more than that?

Levy: The Pistons. This makes the 8-seed in the East more than just a realistic possibility. One trend we've seen over the past few seasons is a young team sneaking into the playoffs, giving the top seed a tough series and using that momentum to catapult its development into the future. The Hawks did it. The Pacers did it. Now the Pistons could be poised to do it.

Murphy: Kyle Lowry. With Calderon gone, the Raptors are now his to run, and he even has his best friend (Gay) in town with him. This team will be built around those two from here on out, which gives Lowry the security he has never had in his career.

Nowell: Detroit generally, Drummond specifically. Detroit moves its young players to more sensible positions for their development and mitigates some team weaknesses while it eyes a playoff seed. Drummond learns how to move in concert with an archetypal, if only better-than-average, distributor.

5. Whose outlook declines the most because of this deal?

Arnovitz: The Raptors. Their staff has done a tremendous job of coaching Davis up and he had emerged as their most prolific frontcourt player while working on a rookie contract. Now they're locked into two big contracts for DeRozan and Gay, who have true shooting percentages of 47.8 and 50.0 respectively at the wings.

Crain: Assuming Memphis doesn't implode from all the transactions, and that threat can't be overlooked, Toronto looks like the big loser. Gay teaming with DeRozan creates space issues for the Raptors, who also lost a good 3-point threat in Calderon. Bargnani returns to the starting lineup soon too, which will create more. They also added salary, thereby limiting their opportunity to make moves to improve the team this summer.

Feldman: Boston Celtics. If Lawrence Frank makes him the team's primary point guard, Calderon makes the Pistons, 4 games back from Celtics for the No. 8 seed, instantly better. The Raptors (5 games back) think they got better too, and they're also lurking. Oh, and there goes Boston's chance of trading for Lowry.

Levy: The Raptors. I think they'll really miss Davis, and I think there's a good chance they'll get an emotionally wounded Gay determined to prove himself. I see a lot of contested midrange jumpers in Toronto's immediate future.

Murphy: Ed Davis in the short term. His rebounding will keep him in the rotation, but Davis' minutes will be slashed as the fourth big on the Grizzlies. Can learning under Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol cancel out the loss in playing time?

Nowell: The Raptors. This early, I don't see a specific player who is harmed by this deal tremendously, but this seems to cement Toronto's status as payroll castaways, toiling in a market that's invisible to many with a payroll that lacks enough room to add value.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 11:28 PM
Hey rockbottom, I know how much you like ESPN..

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-130130-31/nba-evaluating-toronto-raptors-trade-rudy-gay

what are you trying to pull out of this....thats just predictions....but overall...according to sports nation....toronto won this trade.....u can hate as much as u want

so wat about this

The NBA on ESPN ‏@ESPNNBA
Twitter poll results: Who got the best of the Rudy Gay trade? 53% say TOR; 24% say DET; 23% say MEM.

by the way...stop being desperate....

rocket
01-31-2013, 11:33 PM
what are you trying to pull out of this....thats just predictions....but overall...according to sports nation....toronto won this trade.....u can hate as much as u want

so wat about this

The NBA on ESPN ‏@ESPNNBA
Twitter poll results: Who got the best of the Rudy Gay trade? 53% say TOR; 24% say DET; 23% say MEM.

by the way...stop being desperate....

Possibly the best post I've seen ever. Period.

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 11:33 PM
So now Ed Davis is good because he's on another team, & Rudy Gay sucks because he's on the Raptors lol.

Grizzlies will learn why Ed Davis was available and why Terrence Ross was untouchable.

finally, somebody understands

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 11:34 PM
Possibly the best post I've seen ever. Period.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/01/31/everybody-wins-on-trade-night/

btw...how old are you....18, 19...cuz ur new to the game

Gators123
01-31-2013, 11:34 PM
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/31/the-extra-pass-grading-the-rudy-gay-trade/related/

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/21624766/grade-the-trade-raptors-land-their-franchise-cornerstone-in-rudy-gay

http://nba.si.com/2013/01/31/grizzlies-trade-rudy-gay-raptors-pistons-tayshaun-prince/

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/1/31/3935600/rudy-gay-trade-grizzlies-raptors-pistons

Gators123
01-31-2013, 11:35 PM
Possibly the best post I've seen ever. Period.

I lol'd at his post. "twitter poll" LOL

rocket
01-31-2013, 11:41 PM
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/01/31/everybody-wins-on-trade-night/

btw...how old are you....18, 19...cuz ur new to the game

I'm actually 16, you must be 12 considering your using twitter polls to try to defend a point.

Bob_at_york
01-31-2013, 11:41 PM
Guys don't be rude to each other

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 11:41 PM
I lol'd at his post. "twitter poll" LOL

just wait till off season......

rockbottom2010
01-31-2013, 11:42 PM
I'm actually 16, you must be 12 considering your using twitter polls to try to defend a point.

thats why...ur new to the game....u don't know the history...ive been watching the game even before u were born

rocket
01-31-2013, 11:47 PM
thats why...ur new to the game....u don't know the history...ive been watching the game even before u were born

The **** does that HAVE anything to do with the argument.

NOTHING. lmfao smh

rockbottom2010
02-01-2013, 12:01 AM
The **** does that HAVE anything to do with the argument.

NOTHING. lmfao smh

u and ur arguments....ur arguments are soooo weak....ur conclusions are going no where

Rammix
02-01-2013, 12:09 AM
u and ur arguments....ur arguments are soooo weak....ur conclusions are going no where

The only reason I signed up for this website is to tell you that you are a complete ******. Do you have the slightest idea about what your talking about? How are you gonna tell us, Pistons fans, that Calderon won't get any minutes. Ever since Chauncey left ALL WE'VE EVER WANTED WAS A TRUE PG and now that we have one, your tryna tell us that he won't get minutes? Rodney Stuckey was inactive the other night and played PG for less than 10% of his minutes the last 2 years and your gonna say that HES OUR PG OF THE FUTURE? Educate yourself.

rockbottom2010
02-01-2013, 12:15 AM
The only reason I signed up for this website is to tell you that you are a complete ******. Do you have the slightest idea about what your talking about? How are you gonna tell us, Pistons fans, that Calderon won't get any minutes. Ever since Chauncey left ALL WE'VE EVER WANTED WAS A TRUE PG and now that we have one, your tryna tell us that he won't get minutes? Rodney Stuckey was inactive the other night and played PG for less than 10% of his minutes the last 2 years and your gonna say that HES OUR PG OF THE FUTURE? Educate yourself.

are you a dumbass, chaucey billups was the best player for the pistons before he was traded....i said that stuckey was suppose to be the future pg after billups left...and now its showing that stuckey is a bust......ive watch calderon play since his rookie year...he will get minutes....but how many....look at the squad they have....calderon is the oldest player in that roster...ever since u guys traded billups for iverson..the pistons have been on a downfall ever since....the pistons will not have the type of team they had in the late 80s and early 2000s.......therefore...don't be such a punk

Rammix
02-01-2013, 12:17 AM
are you a dumbass, chaucey billups was the best player for the pistons before he was traded....i said that stuckey was suppose be the future pg after billups left...and now its showing that stuckey is a bust......ive watch calderon play since his rookie year...he will get minutes....but how many....look at the squad they have....calderon is the oldest player in that roster...ever since u guys traded billups for iverson..the pistons have been on a downfall ever since....the pistons will not have the type of team they had in the late 80s and early 2000s.......

Why are you telling me all this irrelevant ****. Everyone and their mothers know that Chauncey Billups was important to the team. We didn't trade him for Iverson hoping that we would become a better team...No. This is how teams rebuild...

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 12:19 AM
finally, somebody understands

It's funny because these ESPN analysts are the ones that pay absolutely no attention to the Raps and then spew out this garbage that they read on these forums while they scramble to come up with a catchy story line.

rockbottom2010
02-01-2013, 12:22 AM
Why are you telling me all this irrelevant ****. Everyone and their mothers know that Chauncey Billups was important to the team. We didn't trade him for Iverson hoping that we would become a better team...No. This is how teams rebuild...

hello....ur the one who was asking about stuckey not being the future pg....he was at one point.....dumars drafted him as a pg in 2007....http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stuckro01.html
the first 4 years he was listed as pg....take a good look....chauncey billups is one of my favorite players....he was finals mvp in 2004.....he was the best player for them....hes a playmaker and was a true point guard.....dumars made a lot of mistakes for the past few years

selassi3
02-01-2013, 12:24 AM
It's funny because these ESPN analysts are the ones that pay absolutely no attention to the Raps and then spew out this garbage that they read on these forums while they scramble to come up with a catchy story line.

Couldn't of said it better myself.:clap:

rockbottom2010
02-01-2013, 12:24 AM
It's funny because these ESPN analysts are the ones that pay absolutely no attention to the Raps and then spew out this garbage that they read on these forums while they scramble to come up with a catchy story line.

its because america hates canada...thats what it is and thats fine with me....this is going to be a turning point for the raptors

scaramantula
02-01-2013, 12:25 AM
could the raptors re sign calderon in the off season? if they do that they win, if not its the grizzlies

rocket
02-01-2013, 12:45 AM
It's funny because these ESPN analysts are the ones that pay absolutely no attention to the Raps and then spew out this garbage that they read on these forums while they scramble to come up with a catchy story line.

You know what I find iroinc about this post. rockbotom is using ESPN to back up his pointless and invalid arugments lololol

and Rammix I love you.

RipCity32
02-01-2013, 12:48 AM
Lol at RockBottom

rockbottom2010
02-01-2013, 12:50 AM
You know what I find iroinc about this post. rockbotom is using ESPN to back up his pointless and invalid arugments lololol

and Rammix I love you.

are you really that stupid....espn is saying the exact opposite

RipCity32
02-01-2013, 12:51 AM
Raptors are a better team now.What are they though maybe a 5th or 4th seed with no financial flexibility now.Your looking at this like they are Championship contenders when really they just scratched they're rebuild for a mediocre team that is going to stay that way for years.This was a move to just hurry up and please everyone(which worked on RockBottom) and now what you see is what your going to have.I think the potential the Raptors have now is similar to the Bucks.

RipCity32
02-01-2013, 12:56 AM
could the raptors re sign calderon in the off season? if they do that they win, if not its the grizzlies

I don't see why they couldn't.

RipCity32
02-01-2013, 01:00 AM
And why are some people acting like we traded for Calderon for anything more than a expiring contract.Now we have the luxury of signing any free agent and can handle any future trades.Pistons don't care about Calderon or if he leaves this summer.Hes just a luxury right now to help orchestrate our young team.Drummond and Monroe are our top priority and they will be the guys that we will use all our new flexibility to build around.

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 01:13 AM
Calderon is a good player and I'm happy for Det that they get him...But Tor got a fringe all-star and Det pretty much got cap space. How in the blue hell do they win that trade? You could make an argument for the Grizzlies except they downgraded in talent and got 2 role players.

Fringe All-Star > 2 Role players > Cap Space/rental

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 01:20 AM
its because america hates canada...thats what it is and thats fine with me....this is going to be a turning point for the raptors

Xenophobia produces one hell of a bias. I don't want to make this a USA vs. Canada debate because we'd be going nowhere fast but this bs has to stop. Agree on the turning point for the Raps. Grizz don't look so hot losing by close to 20. I wouldn't bet my money on Prince and Davis turning the ship around & filling the talent void that Rudy left.

RipCity32
02-01-2013, 01:22 AM
Calderon is a good player and I'm happy for Det that they get him...But Tor got a fringe all-star and Det pretty much got cap space. How in the blue hell do they win that trade? You could make an argument for the Grizzlies except they downgraded in talent and got 2 role players.

Fringe All-Star > 2 Role players > Cap Space/rental

Again,Your looking at it wrong.No doubt Rudy Gay is better than anyone else in that trade.The Pistons aren't trying to win that trade right now like The Raptors are.They want flexibility so they can finally start putting the correct pieces around they're young bigs.I guess if you think Rudy Gay can win you a championship than Dont worry about the financial handcuffs.

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 01:29 AM
Again,Your looking at it wrong.No doubt Rudy Gay is better than anyone else in that trade.The Pistons aren't trying to win that trade right now like The Raptors are.

Ok, so the Raptors win the trade.


They want flexibility so they can finally start putting the correct pieces around they're young bigs.I guess if you think Rudy Gay can win you a championship than Dont worry about the financial handcuffs.

You actually think the Raptors aren't going to make any moves in the future as well to better the team? C'mon son.

Deception
02-01-2013, 01:32 AM
Calderon is a good player and I'm happy for Det that they get him...But Tor got a fringe all-star and Det pretty much got cap space. How in the blue hell do they win that trade? You could make an argument for the Grizzlies except they downgraded in talent and got 2 role players.

Fringe All-Star > 2 Role players > Cap Space/rental

Because the people we gave up were holding us back and had a pretty crazy contract for age. Usually when teams do salary dumps, they include draft picks or valuable players, we did none of those things. Also, people say Calderon is old and won't play but he's a year younger than Prince and he started.

RipCity32
02-01-2013, 01:38 AM
Ok, so the Raptors win the trade.

What did we lose is the part I'm not understanding.The trade was really between the Raptors and Grizzlies.Detroit just seen a great opportunity to dump a lot of salary.

rockbottom2010
02-01-2013, 01:39 AM
Xenophobia produces one hell of a bias. I don't want to make this a USA vs. Canada debate because we'd be going nowhere fast but this bs has to stop. Agree on the turning point for the Raps. Grizz don't look so hot losing by close to 20. I wouldn't bet my money on Prince and Davis turning the ship around & filling the talent void that Rudy left.

I'm not hating on the pistons, grizzles, or the raptors what so ever. Its just the fact that many people here are not understanding the business of the game. The grizzles don't want to go over the cap due to luxury taxes. I really think they took a step back. They would have traded Rudy Gay during the off-season. However, BC was all over Rudy Gay and ended up acquiring him. Jose Calderon will be a free agent after this season. Colangelo got rid of an expiring contract and a potential star (Ed Davis). I see Ed Davis as a defensive player who can also hustle. Zach Randolph will most likely be shopped during the off-season. Memphis is a small market team. As for the Pistons, I'm not sure what the future holds for them. It's hard to see what are they are going to do next. They will miss the presence of Tayshaun's defense and his 3-point shooting. The only thing I can think of the Pistons being involved is cap space. I believe the Raptors won this trade is due to the fact the raptors got the best player in the trade. At the same time, they have Amir Johnson at the 4 and kept T-Ross for the future.

Tmath
02-01-2013, 01:40 AM
Again,Your looking at it wrong.No doubt Rudy Gay is better than anyone else in that trade.The Pistons aren't trying to win that trade right now like The Raptors are.They want flexibility so they can finally start putting the correct pieces around they're young bigs.I guess if you think Rudy Gay can win you a championship than Dont worry about the financial handcuffs.

You are basically relying on the Pistons to make a splash in a thin free agency. You are going to be competing with teams like Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte, Cleveland, Utah and others who have a lot of cap space, you are going to be overpaying for the big names or, overpaying for the scraps that are left, or picking up scrubs on short term contracts that will just put you back in the lottery. Thats how free agency works, and I don't see many assets on Detroit to make a big trade. The only real assets are Drummond, Monroe & draft picks, and they should be untouchables.

I know the Raptors aren't winning a championship any time soon, but I want them to at least get themselves into the playoffs to at least give themselves chance, Rudy gives us a better chance at getting to that goal.

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 01:46 AM
Because the people we gave up were holding us back and had a pretty crazy contract for age. Usually when teams do salary dumps, they include draft picks or valuable players, we did none of those things. Also, people say Calderon is old and won't play but he's a year younger than Prince and he started.

Prince makes like 7.3mil per over the next 3 & that is not much of a salary dump. If Det traded Maggette, now that would have been a salary dump. Calderon is gone after these next 36 games. Once again, flexibility is good but it doesn't win a trade.


What did we lose is the part I'm not understanding.

You lost the trade. See above :)

RipCity32
02-01-2013, 01:49 AM
You are basically relying on the Pistons to make a splash in a thin free agency. You are going to be competing with teams like Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte, Cleveland, Utah and others who have a lot of cap space, you are going to be overpaying for the big names or, overpaying for the scraps that are left, or picking up scrubs on short term contracts that will just put you back in the lottery. Thats how free agency works, and I don't see many assets on Detroit to make a big trade. The only real assets are Drummond, Monroe & draft picks, and they should be untouchables.

I know the Raptors aren't winning a championship any time soon, but I want them to at least get themselves into the playoffs to at least give themselves chance, Rudy gives us a better chance at getting to that goal.

Trust me I'm aware of the lack of good players in free agency.Its just the Pistons have been financially handcuffed for so long now and have been stuck with veterans taking up youngsters minutes on a team that is still playing around in the lottery.I don't really now what are game plan is other than to just finally have the financial freedom to get what we want if the oppurtunity arises whether that be trades,Free agency or even on draft night.We are in a lot better position now for sure.The Grizzlies I don't really now about other than they probably should have at least let the season play out.

Rammix
02-01-2013, 01:49 AM
You know what I find iroinc about this post. rockbotom is using ESPN to back up his pointless and invalid arugments lololol

and Rammix I love you.

I love you too. Nice sig...and I'm talkin bout that drummond picture ;)

But no seriously, the Pistons did absolutely nothing but gain from this trade. As much as I love Prince, it was time for him to go. Like someone said earlier, it's addition by subtraction even if we were to lose calderon by the end of the season. Tay was just holding us back from what we want to be.

rockbottom2010
02-01-2013, 01:50 AM
Now I under why espn have so much negativism to the raptors.
1) John Hollinger works for the Grizzlies front office and backing him up like no other day.
2) Toronto is the only canadian team in the NBA
3) This is not the first time that has happened. They did the same thing for the jays.

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 01:50 AM
I'm not hating on the pistons, grizzles, or the raptors what so ever. Its just the fact that many people here are not understanding the business of the game. The grizzles don't want to go over the cap due to luxury taxes. I really think they took a step back. They would have traded Rudy Gay during the off-season. However, BC was all over Rudy Gay and ended up acquiring him. Jose Calderon will be a free agent after this season. Colangelo got rid of an expiring contract and a potential star (Ed Davis). I see Ed Davis as a defensive player who can also hustle. Zach Randolph will most likely be shopped during the off-season. Memphis is a small market team. As for the Pistons, I'm not sure what the future holds for them. It's hard to see what are they are going to do next. They will miss the presence of Tayshaun's defense and his 3-point shooting. The only thing I can think of the Pistons being involved is cap space. I believe the Raptors won this trade is due to the fact the raptors got the best player in the trade. At the same time, they have Amir Johnson at the 4 and kept T-Ross for the future.

Nail on the head. Only thing I disagree with is that Ed Davis isn't a good defender. He has good instincts but lacks the strength to compete down low with the true PF's of the game. He has good instincts around the basket on offence and defence for sure and he can hustle. Probably a 16-10 player at his peak if he gets 36min. But I don't think he'll ever be a cornerstone to a contending team whereas Rudy Gay could be just that. Not the primary option but part of the big 3. Raptors gave up 2 players from 2 positions of the greatest depth for a fringe all-star. Steal.

Rammix
02-01-2013, 01:51 AM
Prince makes like 7.3mil per over the next 3 & that is not much of a salary dump. If Det traded Maggette, now that would have been a salary dump. Calderon is gone after these next 36 games. Once again, flexibility is good but it doesn't win a trade.





You lost the trade. See above :)

Why would we trade Maggette when he's coming off the books by the end of this season?

RipCity32
02-01-2013, 01:52 AM
Prince makes like 7.3mil per over the next 3 & that is not much of a salary dump. If Det traded Maggette, now that would have been a salary dump. Calderon is gone after these next 36 games. Once again, flexibility is good but it doesn't win a trade.



You lost the trade. See above :)

So we lost the trade because we moved a vet off of a lottery team.If we were contending and Prince was the reason for that then maybe.Prince needs to be on a veteran playoff team.He is a role player at this point and is a 3rd or 4th option on a contending team.Pistons are young so he was having to fall into a go to 1st option guy on our team which is something he is not and it was stunting the growth of our young guys.

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 01:56 AM
So we lost the trade because we moved a vet off of a lottery team.If we were contending and Prince was the reason for that then maybe.Prince needs to be on a veteran playoff team.He is a role player at this point and is a 3rd or 4th option on a contending team.Pistons are young so he was having to fall into a go to 1st option guy on our team which is something he is not and it was stunting the growth of our young guys.

Losing the trade doesn't mean that the trade was bad for you. The trade was good for everybody for different reasons however record wise I think the Grizz lost. Raptors got the most out of the trade, that's why they win. & by most I mean the best player.

rockbottom2010
02-01-2013, 02:05 AM
Nail on the head. Only thing I disagree with is that Ed Davis isn't a good defender. He has good instincts but lacks the strength to compete down low with the true PF's of the game. He has good instincts around the basket on offence and defence for sure and he can hustle. Probably a 16-10 player at his peak if he gets 36min. But I don't think he'll ever be a cornerstone to a contending team whereas Rudy Gay could be just that. Not the primary option but part of the big 3. Raptors gave up 2 players from 2 positions of the greatest depth for a fringe all-star. Steal.

Im not sure how many minutes Ed Davis and Austin Daye will be playing. Its hard to say since Randolph, Gasol, and Arthur will be playing a ton of minutes. Tayshaun Prince will most likely play at the 3. Rudy Gay is definitely a prolific scorer and some what of a rebounder. Its going to be real interesting once the raptors are healthy. I don't think they will be a playoff team this year unless the sixers and celtics have a major collapse which i doubt it. Definitely they will be a playoff team next season. Many teams want to free up their cap space for 2014. Every team in this league have a goal and that is winning the O'Brien Trophy.

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 02:17 AM
Why would we trade Maggette when he's coming off the books by the end of this season?

My bad, I scanned over the numbers and I misread it. But 7mil a season in Prince isn't much of a salary dump, or else you would have had to give up something else for him.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2013, 02:18 AM
i know ur jealous with this whole thing.....ur saying a 26 year old can't improve on their game.....look at iguodala, pierce, etc.....they were late bloomers....and ur sayin that rudy can't get any better....if thats the case, that means is that ur not watching enough basketball......another reason rudy gay is a plus is because it would catch attention for other players coming to toronto....its a nice mix.....and if u say that statistics are better on ed davis...then ur out of ur mind...the reason the grizzlies wanted ed davis is because they will most likely shop randolph during the off-seasonand not only that, u can't compare rudy gay to ed davis...they are completely different players with different skills and assets

jealous? That is your response? Not worth my time.

rockbottom2010
02-01-2013, 02:19 AM
jealous? That is your response? Not worth my time.

ur a waste of time in pro sports daily...end of story...and why would i have to be jealous....i have nothing to lose...

Rammix
02-01-2013, 02:28 AM
My bad, I scanned over the numbers and I misread it. But 7mil a season in Prince isn't much of a salary dump, or else you would have had to give up something else for him.

Well dumping his salary without losing any draft picks or jeapordizing our future, to me, is a pretty good deal. Not only that, but Prince was holding us back from committing to the youth, and finally got a true PG we've always wanted. We're obviously gaining the most out of this, while Toronto is just putting themselves in the same situation we were a couple years ago.

RipCity32
02-01-2013, 02:32 AM
My bad, I scanned over the numbers and I misread it. But 7mil a season in Prince isn't much of a salary dump, or else you would have had to give up something else for him.

Its more about freeing up playing time for the younger guys like Singler and Jerebko.I dont know why its so hard to understand for you.Your acting like we were competing and traded away Lebron for a expiring contract or something.

Deception
02-01-2013, 02:40 AM
Prince makes like 7.3mil per over the next 3 & that is not much of a salary dump. If Det traded Maggette, now that would have been a salary dump. Calderon is gone after these next 36 games. Once again, flexibility is good but it doesn't win a trade.



You lost the trade. See above :)

You stupid ****. Maggette expires this season, how would trading him be a salary dump? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. You lose in life :)

Sactown
02-01-2013, 02:45 AM
Still on the everyone lost bandwagon

RipCity32
02-01-2013, 02:50 AM
Still on the everyone lost bandwagon

There is absolutly no way the Pistons lost on this trade.For the other two teams thats yet to be seen.

Sactown
02-01-2013, 02:52 AM
There is absolutly no way the Pistons lost on this trade.For the other two teams thats yet to be seen.

That's true, they turned a 3 year contract into an expiring.. and I'm sure Austin Daye was out of their at this point anyways.. from a salary perspective it makes sense.. it's not like it's a big win, unless they reach a deal with Jose, but it seems they'd be pretty stuffed in the back court..
They should flip the expiring into something more useful.

Tmath
02-01-2013, 03:04 AM
Well dumping his salary without losing any draft picks or jeapordizing our future, to me, is a pretty good deal. Not only that, but Prince was holding us back from committing to the youth, and finally got a true PG we've always wanted. We're obviously gaining the most out of this, while Toronto is just putting themselves in the same situation we were a couple years ago.

Yeah, you guys got a player who likely won't re sign with you and Toronto got a potential All-Star for an expiring and a fringe starting PF, but Detroit won the deal. :rolleyes:

GTFO

Hawkeye15
02-01-2013, 03:07 AM
Still on the everyone lost bandwagon

how did Detroit possibly lose this trade?

Tmath
02-01-2013, 03:07 AM
Each team got what they wanted.

Detroit got rid of Prince while getting a temporary PG.

Grizzlies got a salary dump while adding depth.

Toronto got a legit SF in his prime who just so happens to be Lowry's best friend.

shep33
02-01-2013, 04:28 AM
Memphis and Detroit are winners, I'm not buying it for the Raptors. They're basically capping themselves out for what looks to be a 7-8 seed.

I just never liked this for Toronto. Let the young guys play. Jonas's development might suffer here too. Derozan, Gay, Bargs and even Lowry some nights like to shoot quite a bit.

I dunno, never a fan of it, and to me there was a reason why nobody else bit on a Rudy Gay deal.

mark1125
02-01-2013, 08:32 AM
Wow.......this thread has officially gone to the crapper.

LOL at everyone who insists that only 1 team can win a trade and someone has to lose.

mark1125
02-01-2013, 08:33 AM
how did Detroit possibly lose this trade?

He doesn't like the Pistons so they lose everything.

da ThRONe
02-01-2013, 09:09 AM
Every team can't be rebuilding. The purpose of the new CBA is to add balance to the league. While I'm not sure that's what was accomplished, at some point you have to take risk.

Toronto from my understanding while a non-glamour team isn't a small market team so money isn't as big of an issue as getting players there. As I said in another thread I could see them shipping Derozan and Bargnani for a guy like Pau Gasol.

The league is top heavy. Only 4 or 5 team in the entire league at a time are really title contenders the way things are step up now. I think a roster with Lowry/Gay/and a Gasol type player can be as good as Memphis is now. Which is better than rebuilding every 3-5 years.

Lifted
02-01-2013, 09:48 AM
Everyone talking about money like it's coming out of their pocket. Ownership should have no problems paying the luxury tax.

Gay's role will change in Toronto. He'll be a true #1 option playing alongside a PG in Lowry he already has chemistry with. Toronto won this trade if you look past the money YOU don't have to pay him. Gay will effectively guard the other team's best wing player and provide Toronto with some consistent offense. People forget how good he is because he put up weak numbers this year on a Memphis team that made it clear they wanted to get rid of him.

People are forgetting about the most important piece of this trade. The Raptors also got HAMED HADDADDI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

iliketurtles24
02-01-2013, 10:16 AM
so it happend finally

Raidaz4Life
02-01-2013, 10:26 AM
Easily Detroit, they jumped in and dumped their trash for exactly what they needed.

Hellcrooner
02-01-2013, 10:58 AM
Every team can't be rebuilding. The purpose of the new CBA is to add balance to the league. While I'm not sure that's what was accomplished, at some point you have to take risk.

Toronto from my understanding while a non-glamour team isn't a small market team so money isn't as big of an issue as getting players there. As I said in another thread I could see them shipping Derozan and Bargnani for a guy like Pau Gasol.

The league is top heavy. Only 4 or 5 team in the entire league at a time are really title contenders the way things are step up now. I think a roster with Lowry/Gay/and a Gasol type player can be as good as Memphis is now. Which is better than rebuilding every 3-5 years.

there was a Lowry, Gay, Gasol roster some years ago.

guess what, they went into the lottery.
gasol is older now.

Make your math.

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 11:27 AM
Well dumping his salary without losing any draft picks or jeapordizing our future, to me, is a pretty good deal. Not only that, but Prince was holding us back from committing to the youth, and finally got a true PG we've always wanted. We're obviously gaining the most out of this, while Toronto is just putting themselves in the same situation we were a couple years ago.

You've got a true pg for the next 36 games, lol. You traded for cap space. You traded for potentialities, nothing concrete. Potentiality is not greater than a tangible asset. You don't believe that your GM can drop the ball again and sign terrible contracts? Your ownerships unwillingness to spend is what is holding you back. Not Prince...



Its more about freeing up playing time for the younger guys like Singler and Jerebko.I dont know why its so hard to understand for you.Your acting like we were competing and traded away Lebron for a expiring contract or something.

You're arguing that freeing up playing time for young guys that I'd bet won't even come close to being as good as Rudy Gay means you won the trade? lol Come on man. It was a good trade for Det but they did not benefit the most from it directly. You got the smallest slice of the pie and yet you're here telling me you walked away with the biggest. Wrong.


Easily Detroit, they jumped in and dumped their trash for exactly what they needed.

Since when is cap space better than a fringe All-Star?

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 11:33 AM
Yeah, you guys got a player who likely won't re sign with you and Toronto got a potential All-Star for an expiring and a fringe starting PF, but Detroit won the deal. :rolleyes:

GTFO

There's no point, they don't understand the holes in their logic or how to weight the different scenarios for each team. Arrogance runs rampant in these assessments.

Blitzbolt
02-01-2013, 11:47 AM
I don't get all the hate on the Grizzlies coming from Raptors fans.

1.The Grizzlies are about the same spot as before maybe behind the Warriors and Denver but the drop off is not that big.

2.ZBO is gonna be traded in the offeseason so the future for the Grizzlies is Marc Gasol Conley and Davis now(only one max player).

3.Ed Davis will learn ALOT of $H!t from ZBO they are both left handed low post rebound guys.This is why I like the trade.

4.I like Rudy Gay but he needs to be the first option and he was behind Gasol and ZBO.

So at the of the day we still have a shot(a small one) at winning the title with Prince and the future and Money issue is fix.So I think we did the right thing.

Deception
02-01-2013, 11:49 AM
I don't get all the hate on Grizzlies coming from Raptors fans.

1.The Grizzlies are about the same spot as before maybe behind the Warriors and Denver but the drop off is not that big.

2.ZBO is gonna be traded in the offeseason so the future for the Grizzlies is Marc Gasol Conley and Davis now(only one max player).

3.Ed Davis will learn ALOT of $H!t from ZBO they are both left handed low post rebound guys.This is why I like the trade.

4.I like Rudy Gay but he needs to be the first option and he was behind Gasol and ZBO.

So at the of the day we still have a shot(a small one) at winning the title with Prince and the future and Money issue is fix.So I think we did the right thing.

Because Raptor fans think they got the second coming of Michael Jordan on their team. After a few weeks, they'll realize that Gay was over hyped and over paid and start making threads saying, "Who wants Gay?". Same thing they do with Bargnani.

Jamiecballer
02-01-2013, 12:45 PM
pretty straightforward to me -

-Grizzlies made out like bandits somehow dumping a massive contract while receiving equal talent back. Whether that makes them better or not remains to be seen especially considering Davis will be reduced to a bench role.

-Pistons got a hugely needed point guard and an expiring that gives them tons of space to pursue players in the off-season if needed. Fantastic move for them.

-Raptors took on a massively overpaid player and got no discount in the talent they gave up to compensate. Major fail.

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 12:46 PM
I don't get all the hate on the Grizzlies coming from Raptors fans.

1.The Grizzlies are about the same spot as before maybe behind the Warriors and Denver but the drop off is not that big.

2.ZBO is gonna be traded in the offeseason so the future for the Grizzlies is Marc Gasol Conley and Davis now(only one max player).

3.Ed Davis will learn ALOT of $H!t from ZBO they are both left handed low post rebound guys.This is why I like the trade.

4.I like Rudy Gay but he needs to be the first option and he was behind Gasol and ZBO.

So at the of the day we still have a shot(a small one) at winning the title with Prince and the future and Money issue is fix.So I think we did the right thing.

1. The dropoff will be substantial. No wing creators anymore on the grizz team. Redundancy in the post with Zbo and now Davis.

2. Rudy Gay, Randolph, Gasol >>>>> Conley, Davis, Gasol

3. Ed Davis will learn a lot but he is no ZBO and you will see that. Ed Davis doesn't have the same talent level as Zach nor the strength that he does. Davis is also a pretty bad post defender. Boozer went off for 36 & 12 on Davis. He allows his opposing matchup to post a PER of 20 against his 18.

4. Rudy Gay will be first option on Raps team.

The Grizz have downgraded in talent and effectively took themselves out of possible contention for monetary reasons.

Hellcrooner
02-01-2013, 12:48 PM
1. The dropoff will be substantial. No wing creators anymore on the grizz team. Redundancy in the post with Zbo and now Davis.

2. Rudy Gay, Randolph, Gasol >>>>> Conley, Davis, Gasol

3. Ed Davis will learn a lot but he is no ZBO and you will see that. Ed Davis doesn't have the same talent level as Zach nor the strength that he does. Davis is also a pretty bad post defender. Boozer went off for 36 & 12 on Davis. He allows his opposing matchup to post a PER of 20 against his 18.

4. Rudy Gay will be first option on Raps team.

The Grizz have downgraded in talent and effectively took themselves out of possible contention for monetary reasons.

Im not sure about that.

Lowry likes to shoot the rock, and he has it in his hands.

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 12:56 PM
Im not sure about that.

Lowry likes to shoot the rock, and he has it in his hands.

Lowry averages 9.7 field goal attempts per game. That is FAR from a first option.

TheIlladelph16
02-01-2013, 12:57 PM
The only reason I signed up for this website is to tell you that you are a complete ******. Do you have the slightest idea about what your talking about? How are you gonna tell us, Pistons fans, that Calderon won't get any minutes. Ever since Chauncey left ALL WE'VE EVER WANTED WAS A TRUE PG and now that we have one, your tryna tell us that he won't get minutes? Rodney Stuckey was inactive the other night and played PG for less than 10% of his minutes the last 2 years and your gonna say that HES OUR PG OF THE FUTURE? Educate yourself.

Since your new to the site, word of advice: It's better to not even engage Rockbottom as it will only result in head trauma and nausea. If you can't tell by his definitely coherent, well-rounded, non-conflicting arguments here, he is someone its just better to watch others feed said troll.

The trade itself worked out perfectly fine for everyone in the short-term, but long-term the Raptors ended up with the raw end of the deal. I personally would have liked Rudy Gay on the Sixers, but that's just because I have loved him since college. Unfortunately, he is a fringe all-star being paid like a franchise type player which handicaps your ability to sign actual franchise guys or complimentary pieces in the future.

Blitzbolt
02-01-2013, 01:03 PM
The Grizzlies will play with Conley Bayless and Prince now that's a better 3 point shooting team then Conley Allen and Rudy who is a BAD spacing guy because of his bad 3 point shooting.

I really think that will give Gasol ZBO more space down low and that's what we really need we are dead last in 3s make and 3s taken.

Gators123
02-01-2013, 01:13 PM
‏@Keith_Langlois


LFrank says Calderon will start as soon as he's cleared. BK will start at 2. Stuckey likely to play some 3, Frank said.

CarmeloAnthony
02-01-2013, 01:30 PM
Raptors imo.

IndyRealist
02-01-2013, 01:32 PM
Detroit at worst got out from under Prince's deal, at best they got someone to jumpstart their offense.

Memphis at worst got a ton of depth and cap relief, at best they got their PF of the future.

Toronto at worst lost two efficient starting players for one inefficient one and put themselves in cap he!!, at best they got an offensive focal point so they can finally move Bargs.

Not hard to see Memphis won by a lot.

Chronz
02-01-2013, 01:40 PM
Im not sure about that.

Lowry likes to shoot the rock, and he has it in his hands.

Gay already has a higher usage rate and thats with him playing with some decent talent. Lowry will be the primary playmaker, and Gay will be the primary scoring option.

Chronz
02-01-2013, 01:41 PM
‏@Keith_Langlois

LOL trust me, hes getting traded the same day

:facepalm:

KniCks4LiFe
02-01-2013, 01:51 PM
Without a doubt the Raptors.

daboywonder2002
02-01-2013, 01:51 PM
im gonna say memphis won. i still think they lost a ton of perimeter scoring in mayo/gay. but i think prince is gonna be a solid contributing fit on the offensive end. ed davis off the bench will be good too. austin daye- im surprised he is still in the league.

toronto is gonna improve. but they have had 20 ppg scorers before and still couldnt win. gay doesnt help you defensively and we dont know how if he and derozan can co exist.

xRipCity
02-01-2013, 01:55 PM
The Pistons won this by a long shot.
Got rid of awful Tayshaun Prince contract, and can release many players (like Maggette) this offseason, including Calderon.
Calderon will be a great mentor to young Brandon Knight.
They will have 32 million+ in cap space after this season, and with young talent like Knight, Monroe and surprisingly very good rookie Drummond (and even Singler) watch out for this team next year

ghettosean
02-01-2013, 01:59 PM
People are looking into Salary too much... Toronto got the best player in the deal... On top of that they filled a position they were weakest at with an above average SF and we finally have a player that we can depend on in the final seconds instead of there being confusion on who takes the last shot.

In the end though everyone got what they wanted... Detroit sheds Salary and same with the Grizzles but they have players to step in for the loss of Gay. While the pistons got a great PG (who won't resign with them) but he will get Drummond some spectaular looks all day long you wait!!!

KniCks4LiFe
02-01-2013, 01:59 PM
Honestly I just think Memphis is tearing it down and reconstructing it. You don't break a nucleus like that especially w/ OKC's backcourt losing Harden, having issues w/ Westbrook, Clippers inexperience together, you could have had a WCF or a championship contending team there. But now it's just broken up.

Raptors got theirselves a star player, and I like Ed Davis, but he's gonna go through the wall. Rudy Gay is a go to player who has playoff experience.

Rammix
02-01-2013, 02:11 PM
Since your new to the site, word of advice: It's better to not even engage Rockbottom as it will only result in head trauma and nausea. If you can't tell by his definitely coherent, well-rounded, non-conflicting arguments here, he is someone its just better to watch others feed said troll.

The trade itself worked out perfectly fine for everyone in the short-term, but long-term the Raptors ended up with the raw end of the deal. I personally would have liked Rudy Gay on the Sixers, but that's just because I have loved him since college. Unfortunately, he is a fringe all-star being paid like a franchise type player which handicaps your ability to sign actual franchise guys or complimentary pieces in the future.

I realize that now, thats why I stopped. Thank you.

xRipCity
02-01-2013, 02:12 PM
People are looking into Salary too much... Toronto got the best player in the deal... On top of that they filled a position they were weakest at with an above average SF and we finally have a player that we can depend on in the final seconds instead of there being confusion on who takes the last shot.


If your team is not in contention, then it is ALL about the numbers. The players are just pawns.
Gay is one of the most un-clutch and inconsistent shooters in the game and is way overpaid. Good player but not elite. Awful deal for Raptors who also had to deal Ed Davis away.
Once Prince retires the Grizzlies will be in a better situaton, especially if they get rid of Z-bo.
Pistons can sign someone for max contract after this season (Josh Smith?) and some more.

xRipCity
02-01-2013, 02:16 PM
If you are looking at who improved the most out of the three after the trade RIGHT NOW then it has to be the Raptors. Pistons have best future though

ghettosean
02-01-2013, 02:23 PM
If your team is not in contention, then it is ALL about the numbers. The players are just pawns.
Gay is one of the most un-clutch and inconsistent shooters in the game and is way overpaid. Good player but not elite. Awful deal for Raptors who also had to deal Ed Davis away.
Once Prince retires the Grizzlies will be in a better situaton, especially if they get rid of Z-bo.
Pistons can sign someone for max contract after this season (Josh Smith?) and some more.

In Toronto it's hard for us to attract any free agents and to gain talent the only way we can gain it is through trade.... We got the best player out of the deal and Gay was playing in a system that didn't suit his game. Aside from that when you say it's all about the numbers I don't agree... Currently the raptors have no GO TO player on the team... When it comes to crunch time there was confusion on who gets the ball at the end of games now we have a player who it's clear he is the #1 option in these scenarios.

We are not contenders but we have gained a valueable asset and the contract is expiring in 2 years and on the last year if things don't work out with him and Toronto Gay will be a valueable trade asset for teams who want a high volume scorer and at the same time want to shed a lot of salary.

Team wise looknig at numbers I expect Derozans efficiency to go up since defenses will no longer be focusing on him and he will get easier looks as the doubles will go more towards Gay than DD.

As I said in my previous post I think each team got exactly what they wanted in this deal and we can argue this to death but only time will tell who is right and wrong in this debate.

Hellcrooner
02-01-2013, 02:36 PM
i love the assumption that raptors got the better player in the deal.

Davis could very well BECOME the best player in the deal.

As for today, the highest efficiency from all the players traded, guess what, its not gays.:D

ghettosean
02-01-2013, 02:40 PM
i love the assumption that raptors got the better player in the deal.

Davis could very well BECOME the best player in the deal.

As for today, the highest efficiency from all the players traded, guess what, its not gays.:D


Agreed x2 in what you said... Though it is a COULD type of scenario... I LOVED Davis but when I analysis it now he's a blue collar PF who works hard and doesn't go beyond the scope of his game. I think he will remain this type of player in the future which is just my opinion and when it comes to blue collared PF I don't think they are few and far between in the NBA to get.

We can talk efficiency all day long but when it comes down to who is the most talented player aquired it was Gay.

Hellcrooner
02-01-2013, 02:43 PM
Agreed x2 in what you said... Though it is a COULD type of scenario... I LOVED Davis but when I analysis it now he's a blue collar PF who works hard and doesn't go beyond the scope of his game. I think he will remain this type of player in the future which is just my opinion and when it comes to blue collared PF I don't think they are few and far between in the NBA to get.

We can talk efficiency all day long but when it comes down to who is the most talented player aquired it was Gay.

of course Davis can go up or down, i mean when you have a strong past first pg with leadership you sometimes dont know if a player is that good or his pg is making him look that good, now he does not have jose spoon feeding him.
Is an interesting thing to watch how it unfolds.

ghettosean
02-01-2013, 02:43 PM
Just to add Varejao is in the top 20 in PER in the league but do I or really anyone on planet earth think he's one of the top 20 talented players in the league.

We all know the answer is...

I'm not a fan of rating a player overall by PER.

ghettosean
02-01-2013, 02:45 PM
of course Davis can go up or down, i mean when you have a strong past first pg with leadership you sometimes dont know if a player is that good or his pg is making him look that good, now he does not have jose spoon feeding him.
Is an interesting thing to watch how it unfolds.

Agreed because it's too hard to say who won overall at the moment because Davis is a big factor and he likely won't be seeing as much playing time for a while until Z-Bo is out of the picture in Memphis.

Hellcrooner
02-01-2013, 02:50 PM
Agreed because it's too hard to say who won overall at the moment because Davis is a big factor and he likely won't be seeing as much playing time for a while until Z-Bo is out of the picture in Memphis.

That is, coming in the next few days/weeks i think.
I smell a brotherly reunion ( 3 years vs 2 years, they save money).

Blitzbolt
02-01-2013, 02:56 PM
C and PFs always do well in Memphis.
Marreese Speights went from 0 points with the Sixers to 15 a game last year and about 10 a game this year(less playing time)Same with Dante Cunningham and Darell Arthor ect.. all of them playing behind ZBO and Gasol.

Gasol was a second round pick and it took him about a year to become good so Memphis is one of the best teams for Big man because we know how to coach and develop them.

ghettosean
02-01-2013, 02:59 PM
That is, coming in the next few days/weeks i think.
I smell a brotherly reunion ( 3 years vs 2 years, they save money).

That would be pretty damn cool if that happens and might be really good for L.A also (or cause more conflict.... LOL)

Sly Guy
02-01-2013, 03:05 PM
of course Davis can go up or down, i mean when you have a strong past first pg with leadership you sometimes dont know if a player is that good or his pg is making him look that good, now he does not have jose spoon feeding him.
Is an interesting thing to watch how it unfolds.

this is right. I expect davis to suffer from not being with caldy. Although I'm quite certain caldy's not the only guy who can get him those shots, or get that production out of him, I just don't see him playing as well, at least in the immediate future.

Stunner
02-01-2013, 03:10 PM
I dont see how people can vote for the Raps, i guess names speak loud

gwrighter
02-01-2013, 03:27 PM
Bottom Line is this, and Kenny said it best on TNT last night. Memphis, did they get better? not sure, it could go both ways. Toronto Raptors are definitely a better team after this trade. Rudy Gay and Derozan can both play inside. those two guys will be a hard match up for most SG and SF tandems in the NBA and the NBA is very much a game of having the better matchups night in night out.

rocket
02-01-2013, 04:15 PM
Notice that every Raptors fan is saying that they won the trade and that we are all idiots.

Notice how every non-Raptors fan is saying that Detroit or Memphis won the trade.

ghettosean
02-01-2013, 04:53 PM
Notice that every Raptors fan is saying that they won the trade and that we are all idiots.

Notice how every non-Raptors fan is saying that Detroit or Memphis won the trade.

Any quotes you want to post of the Raptor fans calling EVERYONE idiots just so no one thinks you are making that up to get some attention.

I also noticed you have Andre Drummond in your sig... That's nice :rolleyes:

Bob_at_york
02-01-2013, 05:04 PM
Notice that every Raptors fan is saying that they won the trade and that we are all idiots.
No, I haven't noticed that. I have noticed a bunch of Raptors fans say the raptors got the worst of the deal, myself included. You shouldn't make generalizations or judge a group because of some bad apples.


Notice how every non-Raptors fan is saying that Detroit or Memphis won the trade.

Actually I see a lot of non-Raptors fans saying that the Raptors won. I don't agree with them but it seems a lot people have a higher opinion of Rudy Gay than me.

ghettosean
02-01-2013, 05:21 PM
Without a doubt the Raptors.
Are you a Raptors fan ;)

Sorry just adding on to the comment by "Rocket"

rocket
02-01-2013, 05:22 PM
Actually I see a lot of non-Raptors fans saying that the Raptors won. I don't agree with them but it seems a lot people have a higher opinion of Rudy Gay than me.

Mostly every raptor fan is saying that they won the trade in this thread. Maybe 1 or 2 including yourself is saying they didn't.


Any quotes you want to post of the Raptor fans calling EVERYONE idiots just so no one thinks you are making that up to get some attention.

I also noticed you have Andre Drummond in your sig... That's nice :rolleyes:

see rockbottoms posts, thank you.

rocket
02-01-2013, 05:22 PM
Actually I see a lot of non-Raptors fans saying that the Raptors won. I don't agree with them but it seems a lot people have a higher opinion of Rudy Gay than me.

Mostly every raptor fan is saying that they won the trade in this thread. Maybe 1 or 2 including yourself is saying they didn't.


Any quotes you want to post of the Raptor fans calling EVERYONE idiots just so no one thinks you are making that up to get some attention.

I also noticed you have Andre Drummond in your sig... That's nice :rolleyes:

see rockbottoms posts, thank you.