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View Full Version : "Hes a CENTER!!, they play him at PF " - Karl Malone on Duncan



Chronz
01-28-2013, 02:13 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/topics/m/video/57663322/dan-patrick-show-karl-malone.htm


Wonder if Stockton would ever say that Magic was a Forward who happened to play PG.

justinnum1
01-28-2013, 02:14 PM
Malone mad

LAKobeBryant
01-28-2013, 02:24 PM
The game has changed you rarely see a actual PF and C playing alone each other. Its been 2 guards 3 fowards

rapjuicer06
01-28-2013, 02:32 PM
Wow, pretty full of himself

JasonJohnHorn
01-28-2013, 02:37 PM
Well... Malone does say afterward that he is better than Duncan, so I guess it doesn't matter what you list Duncan as, Malone will still say he's the best PF ever ;-)

I think the problem is that people have a certain perception of what define a position.

To me, SF and SG are essentially the same position, and likewise PF and C are essentially the same position. The things that differentiate those players is the versatility of the individual player. If a power player with great post up moves has range, then he's more likely to be called a power forward, rather than a center. Is a wing player has a really good post up game and rebounds well, he's more likely to be called a SF than a SG.


Coaches some times run with a single player on the blocks, two guys on the wing, and two guys in the back court, or they run with two guys on the block, two wings and a guard coming up the middle running the point. When players move from those positions they move around according to what they can do with the ball and how they can score. To me, a PF has more in common with a center than he does with a small forward, like like a SG usually has more in common with a SF than he does with the PG (obvious exceptions are applied to guys like Jordan, Pippen and LBJ who bring the ball up themselves and distribute).


As for Malone's comment, he does initially say that Duncan is a center to avoid the comparison, but when he is pressed with the direct question he does not hesitate to say he is better than Duncan, and I think he has a case there, though I would pick Duncan over Malone.

Collings94
01-28-2013, 02:41 PM
Malone with some serious sour grapes.

KG will probably go down as a better player then Malone was, so is KG a center too?

jer3miah
01-28-2013, 02:49 PM
First off I will say that I didn't watch the video, but I do agree with the comment of He's a Center, they play him at power forward. Coach Pop just likes 2 bigs down low for his system. But in my book, if you are 7'0" or taller, you are a center.

JiffyMix88
01-28-2013, 02:54 PM
First off I will say that I didn't watch the video, but I do agree with the comment of He's a Center, they play him at power forward. Coach Pop just likes 2 bigs down low for his system. But in my book, if you are 7'0" or taller, you are a center.

So in your book what's the 6'6" Charles Barkley considered as?

Sinattle
01-28-2013, 02:56 PM
Duncan is 6'11"

sp1derm00
01-28-2013, 03:01 PM
First off I will say that I didn't watch the video, but I do agree with the comment of He's a Center, they play him at power forward. Coach Pop just likes 2 bigs down low for his system. But in my book, if you are 7'0" or taller, you are a center.

Dirk is not a Center and he's a true 7 footer.

DaVille
01-28-2013, 03:05 PM
yo Karl Malone, I'm really happy that you think so highly of yourself; and imma let you finish, but Dirk, Duncan, and Garnett are top3 power forwards all time.

Chronz
01-28-2013, 03:11 PM
Duncan is 6'11"
Maybe in College

sp1derm00
01-28-2013, 03:12 PM
yo Karl Malone, I'm really happy that you think so highly of yourself; and imma let you finish, but Dirk, Duncan, and Garnett are top3 power forwards all time.

Those are my Top 3 also... Duncan, Dirk, then Garnett... then, I would probably put Barkley and thennnn Malone. He's at least Top 5.

Mile High Champ
01-28-2013, 03:13 PM
I love Karl Malone. Easily one of the most under appreciated players to have ever played the game. With that said, I would still likely take Duncan over Malone but it is a lot closer that some people may believe. Personally I do believe that Barkely is nowhere near the discussion with KG coming in the third spot all time.

Mile High Champ
01-28-2013, 03:14 PM
yo Karl Malone, I'm really happy that you think so highly of yourself; and imma let you finish, but Dirk, Duncan, and Garnett are top3 power forwards all time.

No offence but you must still be a teenager. Not having Malone in the conversation here is downright crazy.

LoveMeOrHateMe
01-28-2013, 03:16 PM
yo Karl Malone, I'm really happy that you think so highly of yourself; and imma let you finish, but Dirk, Duncan, and Garnett are top3 power forwards all time.

Dirk over Malone lol hell no

Kg has an argument I'd still take Maloneonly PF I would take over Malone would be TD and maybe KG

NJBASEBALL22
01-28-2013, 03:16 PM
So in your book what's the 6'6" Charles Barkley considered as?

Yeah but closer to 6'4

phenomenal finisher for his height.

DaVille
01-28-2013, 03:19 PM
No offence but you must still be a teenager. Not having Malone in the conversation here is downright crazy.


No, I'm not a teenager. But thank you.

rockbottom2010
01-28-2013, 03:33 PM
Yeah but closer to 6'4

phenomenal finisher for his height.

chuck is at least 6'5 minimum....6'6 tops....he's taller than wade...wade is 6'4

SanAntonioSpurs23
01-28-2013, 03:34 PM
So all those years Robinson, Nesterovic, Nazr Mohammed, Oberto and now Splitter played PF? Interesting..... :laugh: Malone

Sactown
01-28-2013, 03:42 PM
chuck is at least 6'5 minimum....6'6 tops....he's taller than wade...wade is 6'4

Wade isn't 6'4... he's registered at 6'4, but he surely isn't.

NJBASEBALL22
01-28-2013, 03:45 PM
MJ was taller than Barkley, MJ was listed at 6'6 but was probably a hair taller than 6'5.

Same way KD is listed at 6'9 but is virtually the same height as KG who is listed at 7'

Rockice_8
01-28-2013, 03:50 PM
Malone is one of the more overrated guys to ever play. He played the PnR with one of the best PG's of all time. He's a fringe top 3 PF.

No rings and played with a top 3 PG. He was a great player but not an all time great like some want to think. I'll take Duncan and KG easily over him and maybe Barkley too. Dirk could make a case too.

Hellcrooner
01-28-2013, 03:56 PM
Good for you.
I will still Pick Garnett, Mchale and maybe even Barkley over you mr Mailman.

Chronz
01-28-2013, 04:00 PM
MJ was taller than Barkley, MJ was listed at 6'6 but was probably a hair taller than 6'5.

Same way KD is listed at 6'9 but is virtually the same height as KG who is listed at 7'
KG is listed as 6"11 last I checked and I see a clear difference in KD and KG's height. KG is a legit 7ft and KD is approaching 6"11

Chuck was 6"5 in shoes 6"3/4" without. MJ was 6"6 according to SI but could be 6"5 and change

Mile High Champ
01-28-2013, 04:14 PM
Karl easily has guys like Barkley, Dirk and KG beat for me. Interesting stat, Malone had 15+ win shares in 9 Seasons. That number is truly remarkable. When we compare that number against the other guys in the conversation, this is how it shapes up.

Seasons with Win Shares of 15+
Karl Malone (9 Seasons)
Dirk Nowitzki (4 Seasons)
Charles Barkley (3 Seasons)
Kevin Garnett (3 Seasons)
Tim Duncan (2 Seasons)

Best consecutive 10 year average for win shares
Karl Malone 152.5 win shares total, averages out to 15.25 per season.
Dirk Nowitzki 141.3 win shares, averages out to 14.13 per season.
Charles Barkley 132.4 win shares total, averages out to 13.24 per season.
Kevin Garnett 131.8 win shares, averages out to 13.18 per season
Tim Duncan 129.8 win shares total, averages out to 12.98 per season.


Best consecutive 5 year average for win shares
Kevin Garnett 77.7 win shares, averages out to 15.54 per season
Dirk Nowitzki 77.2 win shares, averages out to 15.44 per season.
Karl Malone 77.1 win shares total, averages out to 15.42 per season.
Charles Barkley 75.8 win shares total, averages out to 15.16 per season.
Tim Duncan 73.6 win shares total, averages out to 14.72 per season.

Also consider the fact, that Malone's 5 year stretch would actually be number 1 had it not been for the lock out shortened season of 1998-99. That year Malone had already gotten 9.6 win shares in 49 games. That works out to about .19 win shares per game. Had he maintained that pace, he would of ended up with an additional 6.46 win shares in those remaining 32 games in the season. Thus giving him 16 win shares that season and giving him a 5 year total of 79.5 and a 5 year average of 15.9.

Best consecutive 3 year average for win shares
Charles Barkley 50.1 win shares total, averages out to 16.7 per season.
Kevin Garnett 50 win shares, averages out to 16.6 per season
Dirk Nowitzki 49.5 win shares, averages out to 16.5 per season.
Karl Malone 48.2 win shares total, averages out to 16.0 per season.
Tim Duncan 47.5 win shares total, averages out to 15.8 per season.

If counting Malone's lock out shortened season, he would have a career 3 average high of 49.1 win shares averaging out at 16.3.

Granted win shares do not mean everything but it does give you a snap shot in terms of player longevity, best 5 year stretch and the prime years of their career.

Chronz
01-28-2013, 04:15 PM
So all those years Robinson, Nesterovic, Nazr Mohammed, Oberto and now Splitter played PF? Interesting..... :laugh: Malone


“Do you know who you’re going to start at the five tonight,” ask San Antonio Express-News NBA beat writer Mike Monroe.

Without skipping a beat, Popovich took a quick sip from his Rock & Hammer limited release 2004 pinot noir and proceeded to, for all intents and purposes, throw his franchise cornerstone under a bus.

“Tim Duncan, like we have for 15 years,” replied Popovich


http://www.48minutesofhell.com/why-karl-malone-might-be-the-greatest-power-forward-ever
Just Sayin

Chronz
01-28-2013, 04:16 PM
Karl easily has guys like Barkley, Dirk and KG beat for me.

What about playoffs?

Mile High Champ
01-28-2013, 04:17 PM
Malone is one of the more overrated guys to ever play. He played the PnR with one of the best PG's of all time. He's a fringe top 3 PF.

No rings and played with a top 3 PG. He was a great player but not an all time great like some want to think. I'll take Duncan and KG easily over him and maybe Barkley too. Dirk could make a case too.

His stats really refute that. Are you accounting that Stockton was the main reason why Malone was successful? It really is never that simple. Malone really was the total package in terms of offense, defense and rebounding. 3 things you look for in any big.

Mile High Champ
01-28-2013, 04:21 PM
What about playoffs?

Your right Malone is behind in that category but it also represent a significantly smaller sample size. You do need to find some kind of an even ground but for me the regular season still weighs more because the sample size is that much greater. Barkley does have a significant edge in terms of playoff individual success but he also played in 73 fewer post season games. I would fully expect player averages to significantly drop when you have that many more games played on the likes of Dirk, KG and Barkley in the post season.

Chronz
01-28-2013, 04:31 PM
Your right Malone is behind in that category but it also represent a significantly smaller sample size. You do need to find some kind of an even ground but for me the regular season still weighs more because the sample size is that much greater. Barkley does have a significant edge in terms of playoff individual success but he also played in 73 fewer post season games. I would fully expect player averages to significantly drop when you have that many more games played on the likes of Dirk, KG and Barkley in the post season.
Peak for Peak, Chuck anihilated playoff competition so it aint just about sample size. Arguing his total playoff games is an argument for his longevity, some of us dont value that as much as peak runs. Malone has a special kind of longevity going for him so I get if you disagree.

But no question, Chuck showed up when it mattered most to a great degree. His stats actually increase when you account for playoff competition.

kdspurman
01-28-2013, 04:40 PM
http://www.48minutesofhell.com/why-karl-malone-might-be-the-greatest-power-forward-ever
Just Sayin

Not for nothing, but Pop has a tendency to say some pretty sarcastic stuff. And this whole interview seemed to be a joke to both Tim and Pop tbh.

It actually almost mirrored the Dwight/SVG interview. (Almost like they planned that or something)

I never caught on to that, but it's pretty funny. Definitely not something to be taken seriously

Hawkeye15
01-28-2013, 04:45 PM
I love Karl Malone. Easily one of the most under appreciated players to have ever played the game. With that said, I would still likely take Duncan over Malone but it is a lot closer that some people may believe. Personally I do believe that Barkely is nowhere near the discussion with KG coming in the third spot all time.

I actually have Barkley the #2 PF of all time, with KG and Malone right behind him.

Chronz
01-28-2013, 04:51 PM
Its an argument of quantity vs quality

Mile High Champ
01-28-2013, 04:53 PM
Its an argument of quantity vs quality

Truly but having 9 seasons of 15+ win shares is still quality, not just quantity. Lets just not dismiss that outright but I hear what you are saying.

JasonJohnHorn
01-28-2013, 04:56 PM
I can't believe the people who think so lowly of Karl Malone. This guy was amazing. I mean, over 18 seasons he average 25 and 10. How many guys can say they've done that? There is only one player with more career points than him, and his name is Kareem. There are only six guys ahead of Malone on total rebounds, and they were all centers. He is the highest ranking PF for career rebounds. His FG% is top notch. And he got his shares of steals and blocks as well, not to mention his ability to pass the ball (though his turnovers are higher than Kareem's, as are his personal fouls).

Malone has a case to be the best power forward of all time. Are Garnett and Duncan better? I wouldn't argue with somebody who said they were, nor would I argue with somebody who put Barkley above Malone, but at the same time, considering the subjective nature of such a debate, I think it is fair to say that Malone can fairly be put at the top of the list. As for Dirk... he just isn't a good enough rebounder or defender to crack the top four. Anybody who puts Dirk about Malone doesn't understand how good Malone is.

Malone, Barkley, Duncan and Garnett are the best power forwards of all time. Put them in whatever order you like, but anybody who knows the game knows that there is a case to be made for any of these four as the best PF of all time.

Inch for inch Barkley was the best PF of all time, but I'd take Duncan, Garnett, Malone and Barkley, in that order, though I think these guys are so close it is like splitting hairs deciding who the best player is.

Longhornfan1234
01-28-2013, 05:11 PM
Malone is overrated to me. He shrank in the playoffs. Duncan, Barkley, and KG > Malone.

CityofTreez
01-28-2013, 05:15 PM
I definitely have Malone in my Top 5 for PF's, but one thing was his FT shooting. I don't have the numbers, but I believe he struggled more than his competition. I'll never forget his FT shooting, he definitely surpassed the 10 second rule on several occasions. ****, we counted every time in Arco, and we counted to 0:12, and it was comical at that point.

Mile High Champ
01-28-2013, 05:24 PM
I definitely have Malone in my Top 5 for PF's, but one thing was his FT shooting. I don't have the numbers, but I believe he struggled more than his competition. I'll never forget his FT shooting, he definitely surpassed the 10 second rule on several occasions. ****, we counted every time in Arco, and we counted to 0:12, and it was comical at that point.

Free throw percentage is the deciding factor? Malone was 74.2% from the line for his career while Chalres shot 73.5%, Duncan 69%, Dirk shoots 87.7% for his career while KG shoots 79%.

So not sure where you are getting this thing about free throws from.

Malone does have the career record for free throws made with 9787, putting him close to 3400 ahead of Barkely. Nobody else in the PF discussion is even close to Malone. Malone also has been to the line more times than anyone in the history of the league as well and has 4400 more trips to line than Barkely. Malones ability to get to the rim is one area he simply destroys his competition.

Chronz
01-28-2013, 05:33 PM
....

Knowing what you know about Chuck and Malone, at what point did Malone get on par with him and eventually exceed him?

Talking about through their playing days.

CityofTreez
01-28-2013, 06:07 PM
Free throw percentage is the deciding factor? Malone was 74.2% from the line for his career while Chalres shot 73.5%, Duncan 69%, Dirk shoots 87.7% for his career while KG shoots 79%.

So not sure where you are getting this thing about free throws from.

Malone does have the career record for free throws made with 9787, putting him close to 3400 ahead of Barkely. Nobody else in the PF discussion is even close to Malone. Malone also has been to the line more times than anyone in the history of the league as well and has 4400 more trips to line than Barkely. Malones ability to get to the rim is one area he simply destroys his competition.

I wasn't really sure on the FT percentage. It wasn't my deciding factor, just one aspect of his game I remembered most. You're right, he got to the line better than anyone else, but I did watch a lot of his later playing years. I just remember him missing costly FT's in the playoffs when we were clashing with the Jazz. He was way past his prime too. I bet my memory of Malone is different because I missed his earlier/dominant years.

OceanSpray
01-28-2013, 06:41 PM
Malone is angry people forget about him and recognize Tim as the greatest.

Doogolas
01-28-2013, 06:55 PM
His stats really refute that. Are you accounting that Stockton was the main reason why Malone was successful? It really is never that simple. Malone really was the total package in terms of offense, defense and rebounding. 3 things you look for in any big.

Not to be pedantic, but I'm going to be, what position are those the three things you aren't looking for? I mean, I guess not rebounding for guards maybe... But even then it's a nice bonus.

sventhedog
01-28-2013, 07:07 PM
gotta feel bad for him. he probably still can't get over not winning a title and the most he can do is sort of ditch MJ or keep denying TD as a better player just to make himself feel better.

b@llhog24
01-28-2013, 07:09 PM
Duncan
Barkley/KG
Malone
Dirk/McHale/Bob.

Hawkeye15
01-28-2013, 07:36 PM
Duncan
Barkley/KG
Malone
Dirk/McHale/Bob.

I have Barkley 2, KG 3, but that is my exact list as well.

OceanSpray
01-28-2013, 07:40 PM
KG is not better than Charles. In his prime, KG was a beast. However, his prime was by far his best year. Charles has been consistent and has been one of the best players for a long time during his career.

Hawkeye15
01-28-2013, 07:50 PM
KG is not better than Charles. In his prime, KG was a beast. However, his prime was by far his best year. Charles has been consistent and has been one of the best players for a long time during his career.

One can make the case that if you exclude playoffs, Charles drops below him and Malone. But Chuck was just such a freaking beast come playoff time, while those two slightly regressed, which is why he is above them for me personally. Garnett's defensive impact is waaaaaaaaaay better, but he just didn't destroy players in the games that mattered most.

abe_froman
01-28-2013, 08:01 PM
KG is not better than Charles. In his prime, KG was a beast. However, his prime was by far his best year. Charles has been consistent and has been one of the best players for a long time during his career.
i dunno about that,the split is by a hair because kg's defensive impact is soo great that it closes the offensive gap between him and chuck

Hawkeye15
01-28-2013, 08:06 PM
i dunno about that,the split is by a hair because kg's defensive impact is soo great that it closes the offensive gap between him and chuck

Chuck ends up winning for me, because his playoff play takes a dump on almost any competitor he has. The reason I don't think he is a runaway better player than KG is indeed the defensive impact, and regular seasons.

topdog
01-29-2013, 12:11 AM
Regardless of whatever else Malone says (I don't care to watch/read), I and many others would agree that Duncan is more of a center playing under the PF label. I would assume that David Robinson is to blame for Duncan having a career label of PF.

I Rock Shaqs
01-29-2013, 12:19 AM
Black people.

TRF929
01-29-2013, 12:47 AM
Duncan is a PF that can also play center, he's talented enough to do either unlike these other guys.

king2218
01-29-2013, 12:58 AM
NO way does Nowitzki rank higher than Malone...Malone would've been considered the greatest PF if he won a ring...but unfortunately he played in the MJ era. My ranking goes: Duncan, Malone, Barkley, Garnett, Nowitzki.

Jahari Kavi
01-29-2013, 03:41 AM
Duncan is leaps and bounds better than Malone..and Malone was great...Duncan is top 10 of all time great though....I'd take Barkley in his prime over Malone and Dirk as well.....

Jahari Kavi
01-29-2013, 03:44 AM
I hate to hear that "he played in the MJ era" nonsense....Malone had his chances and to be quite honest gagged in both series...had he had played to his potential or actually played down low like big men are supposed to do, as opposed to taking 20 foot jumpers against Rodman, then maybe he'd have a ring....Duncan, Dirk, and Barkley all have more "big game" playoff moments that I can think of than Karl.......

Jahari Kavi
01-29-2013, 03:55 AM
Also lived on the FT line from flopping...a great player but give me Duncan (certainly without question), Chuck, and Dirk over him any day of the week......KG isn't big game enough for me either....great piece, but not a guy I want leading me into war..........same goes for the Mailman.....

MickeyMgl
01-29-2013, 04:19 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/topics/m/video/57663322/dan-patrick-show-karl-malone.htm


Wonder if Stockton would ever say that Magic was a Forward who happened to play PG.

Magic handled the playmaking responsibilities. Magic brought the ball to the frontcourt. Magic usually defended guards. He was a point guard. Point forward at worst, if you based it just on size. But based on the role and responsibilities of a point guard, Magic was a point guard.

Tim Duncan jumps for the tipoff (often referred to as "jumping center", or the "center jump".) Duncan was usually his team's biggest starter, frequently playing next to "centers" who were shorter and lighter than him - as short as 6'7" (Malik Rose). Duncan is usually his team's last line of defense, blocking shots at the rim. Duncan plays in the post, high and low. Based on the role and responsibilities of a center - and the size of a center - he is a center.

MickeyMgl
01-29-2013, 04:32 AM
So in your book what's the 6'6" Charles Barkley considered as?

A forward?

kdspurman
01-29-2013, 10:22 AM
Magic handled the playmaking responsibilities. Magic brought the ball to the frontcourt. Magic usually defended guards. He was a point guard. Point forward at worst, if you based it just on size. But based on the role and responsibilities of a point guard, Magic was a point guard.

Tim Duncan jumps for the tipoff (often referred to as "jumping center", or the "center jump".) Duncan was usually his team's biggest starter, frequently playing next to "centers" who were shorter and lighter than him - as short as 6'7" (Malik Rose). Duncan is usually his team's last line of defense, blocking shots at the rim. Duncan plays in the post, high and low. Based on the role and responsibilities of a center - and the size of a center - he is a center.

Center's he's played with since Robinson left

Rasho Nesterovic- 7'0
Francisco Elson- 7'0
Nazr Mohammed- 6'10 (he's definitely not a PF despite being an inch shorter)
Fabricio Oberto- 6'10 (could play the 4/5)
Tiago Splitter- 6'11

Duncan is a PF who could play C if/when needed. Just as Magic could play multiple positions, Lebron, etc...

Granted he's played with Blair/Diaw the past few years in the starting lineup, but again he's capable of either.

mightybosstone
01-29-2013, 11:02 AM
Malone is such a douche and remains the biggest choker in the history of the NBA. The greatest PF of all-time? He's not even in my top four! Duncan is clearly better than him (not debatable), and I'd also put KG, Barkley and Dirk ahead of him. I think you could even make a case for Kevin McHale, albeit not a particularly strong one.

mightybosstone
01-29-2013, 11:04 AM
Also, saying he'd rather take Pippen over Jordan? What an idiot...

phan
01-29-2013, 11:10 AM
I love Karl Malone. Easily one of the most under appreciated players to have ever played the game. With that said, I would still likely take Duncan over Malone but it is a lot closer that some people may believe. Personally I do believe that Barkely is nowhere near the discussion with KG coming in the third spot all time. I would put Barkley just outside the top 5.

Floppy
01-29-2013, 11:19 AM
http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/files/import/i-0bf834bf3a94043ea2194baf515e6ac3-barkleyc.jpg

If you look closely Barkley's only 5'9.

MickeyMgl
01-29-2013, 12:26 PM
Center's he's played with since Robinson left

Rasho Nesterovic- 7'0
Francisco Elson- 7'0
Nazr Mohammed- 6'10 (he's definitely not a PF despite being an inch shorter)
Fabricio Oberto- 6'10 (could play the 4/5)
Tiago Splitter- 6'11

Duncan is a PF who could play C if/when needed. Just as Magic could play multiple positions, Lebron, etc...

Granted he's played with Blair/Diaw the past few years in the starting lineup, but again he's capable of either.

I have seen box scores where Duncan was listed as a PF next to Malik Rose. I have seen box scores where Rose was listed at center.

kdspurman
01-29-2013, 12:31 PM
I have seen box scores where Duncan was listed as a PF next to Malik Rose. I have seen box scores where Rose was listed at center.

I know, I was simply pointing out the Centers he's played next to in addition to someone like Rose or Blair. Also noting the fact that he's capable of either

JAZZNC
01-29-2013, 12:35 PM
The people who have Dirk and KG ahead of Malone don't know **** about basketball. People want to talk about Malone's "struggles" in the playoffs but neglect to mention that KG didn't get a ring until he was put on a completely stacked team. When he was the man the T-Wolves were a joke.

And I really wish people would stop discrediting longevity like it's something that just doesn't matter. You guys know it's part of your job as a professional athlete to be in the best shape you can be and make sure you can play at your highest level for as long as you can.

And this whole Barkley stepped it up so much in the playoffs and Malone didn't. Their career playoff stats are almost identical (Malone better scorer, Barkley better rebounder) and Malone played in 70 MORE games than Barkley and played a lot of those well after his prime. So somebody is going to have to show me something that I guess isn't there for me to believe Barkley's playoff performances just blow Malones out of the water. And this talk of no rings...Malone went to one more Finals than the almighty Charles did.

Duncan is clearly the best PF to play the game. In my mind Malone is second, Barkley third, KG fourth, and nobody else is really close.

mightybosstone
01-29-2013, 01:32 PM
The people who have Dirk and KG ahead of Malone don't know **** about basketball.
Challenge accepted (just like the Rockets accepted the challenge and crushed the Jazz by 45 points last night ;)).


People want to talk about Malone's "struggles" in the playoffs but neglect to mention that KG didn't get a ring until he was put on a completely stacked team. When he was the man the T-Wolves were a joke.
Good point. Oh wait... No it's not. When did KG play with arguably the greatest distributor and one of the best No. 2s in the history of the NBA? And Malone STILL couldn't win a title. His career PER dropped 12 percent and his career WS/48 dropped 32 percent in the playoffs. Sorry, bro, but choking is choking.


And I really wish people would stop discrediting longevity like it's something that just doesn't matter. You guys know it's part of your job as a professional athlete to be in the best shape you can be and make sure you can play at your highest level for as long as you can.
Longevity does matter, but it also shouldn't be taken nearly as seriously as peak performance and postseason success. Also, it certainly helps that he played with Stockton essentially his entire career. 19 seasons, 0 titles, 2 MVPs he didn't deserve. Color me unimpressed.


And this whole Barkley stepped it up so much in the playoffs and Malone didn't. Their career playoff stats are almost identical (Malone better scorer, Barkley better rebounder) and Malone played in 70 MORE games than Barkley and played a lot of those well after his prime. So somebody is going to have to show me something that I guess isn't there for me to believe Barkley's playoff performances just blow Malones out of the water. And this talk of no rings...Malone went to one more Finals than the almighty Charles did.
I don't understand what point you're trying to make. Of course he played in more playoff games and had more Finals appearances, because he had a superior supporting cast in Utah than Barkley had in Phoenix and his later years in Philly. But if you want to argue postseason play, Barkley's career playoff PER and WS/48 absolutely dwarfs Malone's. It's not even close.


Duncan is clearly the best PF to play the game. In my mind Malone is second, Barkley third, KG fourth, and nobody else is really close.
Dirk won a ring with an inferior supporting cast against his era's greatest player. Malone failed twice. His postseason (and regular season) numbers also crush Malone's and he also has an MVP that he probably didn't deserve. To say he isn't anywhere close to Malone is to simply ignore his accomplishments for the sake of your argument.

da ThRONe
01-29-2013, 07:52 PM
Yeah I'll go

Duncan
Barkley
Garnett
Malone
McHale

In that order.

mdm692
01-29-2013, 09:44 PM
This has probably been mentioned quite a few times but Malone is just mad that Duncan is the greatest PF of all time.

NBA_Starter
01-29-2013, 10:37 PM
I always saw him as a PF

BULLSFAN0810
01-29-2013, 10:59 PM
Duncan is a center ..he is Low post. Pf are high post. he got away with it bc he was young and pop...i see him as a center ...AND NOT AS GOOD AS PEOPLE THINK...IMO HE IS EQUAL TO KG, INFERIOR TO MALONE ,JUST OFF RESUME...MALONE WAS DAMN NEAR 20 YEAR GOOD..DUNCAN HAD A TIME OF 4-5 YEARS WHERE HE WAS GOOD AND HE WASNT AS GOOD AS SHAQ WHICH IMO WHY HE WAS MOSTLY AT PF

tapajafri
01-29-2013, 11:42 PM
we got a mad malone

tapajafri
01-29-2013, 11:45 PM
1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. Barkley

then it gets interesting with Nowitzki, Garnett, and McHale. Hell, you can even throw Bob Pettit and Chris Webber into the argument but most people would probably put them after those 3, and rightfully so. I'm just saying it's only fair to mention them in the conversation.

kdspurman
01-29-2013, 11:53 PM
Duncan is a center ..he is Low post. Pf are high post. he got away with it bc he was young and pop...i see him as a center ...AND NOT AS GOOD AS PEOPLE THINK...IMO HE IS EQUAL TO KG, INFERIOR TO MALONE ,JUST OFF RESUME...MALONE WAS DAMN NEAR 20 YEAR GOOD..DUNCAN HAD A TIME OF 4-5 YEARS WHERE HE WAS GOOD AND HE WASNT AS GOOD AS SHAQ WHICH IMO WHY HE WAS MOSTLY AT PF

This is freakin' awesome.... :clap:

IKnowHoops
01-30-2013, 01:15 AM
1. Duncan
2. KG
3. Malone
4. Dirk
5. Barkley

Raidaz4Life
01-30-2013, 01:19 AM
I completely agree with him and have said it numerous times. Duncan is a versatile Center. Malone is the best true PF in the history of the game.

Hawkeye15
01-30-2013, 01:19 AM
Yeah I'll go

Duncan
Barkley
Garnett
Malone
McHale

In that order.

perfect list for me.

mightybosstone
01-30-2013, 01:42 AM
Duncan is a center ..he is Low post. Pf are high post. he got away with it bc he was young and pop...i see him as a center ...AND NOT AS GOOD AS PEOPLE THINK...IMO HE IS EQUAL TO KG, INFERIOR TO MALONE ,JUST OFF RESUME...MALONE WAS DAMN NEAR 20 YEAR GOOD..DUNCAN HAD A TIME OF 4-5 YEARS WHERE HE WAS GOOD AND HE WASNT AS GOOD AS SHAQ WHICH IMO WHY HE WAS MOSTLY AT PF
This is just wildly inaccurate and ignorant. Duncan't numbers, postseason success, defense and every other possibly feasible measure of him as a player completely dwarfs Malone's to a point where it's absolutely no contest. But hey... Malone was a better free throw shooter. So there's that, right?


Yeah I'll go

Duncan
Barkley
Garnett
Malone
McHale

In that order.
I love the list, but I'm not sure how Dirk doesn't crack the top five. Defensively, he's certainly not winning any DPOY awards, but neither did Barkley. If Barkley is No. 2 despite being an atrocious defender, how can Dirk be left off this list?

mightybosstone
01-30-2013, 01:48 AM
I completely agree with him and have said it numerous times. Duncan is a versatile Center. Malone is the best true PF in the history of the game.

Guys like Duncan and KG could play either position, but the bulk of their time came as true PFs. They have range, but can also score inside, defend around the rim or in the perimeter against bigs with range. Calling them merely "power forwards" doesn't do them justice, but they're certainly not just centers either. People who claim Duncan is a C playing PF are just nitpicking because the guy is tremendously talented and versatile. In fact, I would argue that someone calling Malone a "true PF" is pretty much an insult. If he was half the player Duncan was, he could have defended opposing 5s, but in the 90s he would have absolutely been slaughtered by Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Zo, etc.

Bottom line, Tim Duncan has spent most of his career at C and no matter how you chose to classify him, he absolutely crushes Malone in every fathomable way.

Hawkeye15
01-30-2013, 04:06 AM
This is just wildly inaccurate and ignorant. Duncan't numbers, postseason success, defense and every other possibly feasible measure of him as a player completely dwarfs Malone's to a point where it's absolutely no contest. But hey... Malone was a better free throw shooter. So there's that, right?


I love the list, but I'm not sure how Dirk doesn't crack the top five. Defensively, he's certainly not winning any DPOY awards, but neither did Barkley. If Barkley is No. 2 despite being an atrocious defender, how can Dirk be left off this list?

I somewhat agree, if you replace Dirk over McHale, I can live with it. But the list itself was right on. I think the 4-7 spots at PF are so subjective, its not even worth arguing.

da ThRONe
01-30-2013, 12:00 PM
I love the list, but I'm not sure how Dirk doesn't crack the top five. Defensively, he's certainly not winning any DPOY awards, but neither did Barkley. If Barkley is No. 2 despite being an atrocious defender, how can Dirk be left off this list?

I'm ok with Dirk over McHale. Top "whatever" list are difficult and usual can be alter slightly. I would have Dirk right after McHale so if you have him ahead of Kevin that's totally understandable.

BULLSFAN0810
01-30-2013, 12:14 PM
[QUOTE=mightybosstone;25255562]This is just wildly inaccurate and ignorant. Duncan't numbers, postseason success, defense and every other possibly feasible measure of him as a player completely dwarfs Malone's to a point where it's absolutely no contest. But hey... Malone was a better free throw shooter. So there's that, right?

You can say what you day about my oppinion, but centers are low post, of are high post. Do you want Duncan shooting the 15 footer or posting? He could do both, but he is and ess mainly low post esp.when it came to Shaq. KG. high post. Pf

THE_FLASH_21
01-30-2013, 12:27 PM
Malone is one of the more overrated guys to ever play. He played the PnR with one of the best PG's of all time. He's a fringe top 3 PF.

No rings and played with a top 3 PG. He was a great player but not an all time great like some want to think. I'll take Duncan and KG easily over him and maybe Barkley too. Dirk could make a case too.

Well it took kg many years to win his one and only ring... And the main reason he got it was of the 2 hof's he played along side with

mightybosstone
01-30-2013, 12:36 PM
I somewhat agree, if you replace Dirk over McHale, I can live with it. But the list itself was right on. I think the 4-7 spots at PF are so subjective, its not even worth arguing.

My top three would be the same, but I would put KG ahead of Barkley because of defense. I'd also put Dirk at No. 4 ahead of Malone and then McHale at 6. But I definitely think those are the six best.

nrvana
01-30-2013, 01:12 PM
interesting argument:

If (insert player) was on (insert team), would that player still be able to carry that team to the finals/win the championship?

duncan
dirk
kg
malone
barkley

spurs
mavs
celtics
jazz
suns

duncan is the best. i have no qualms with that. but i think dirk deserves more credit as well.

if you gave each pf above the mavs roster when they went to the finals twice, only duncan at his peak would've been able to replicate or best what dirk did imo.

mightybosstone
01-30-2013, 01:17 PM
interesting argument:

If (insert player) was on (insert team), would that player still be able to carry that team to the finals/win the championship?

duncan
dirk
kg
malone
barkley

spurs
mavs
celtics
jazz
suns

duncan is the best. i have no qualms with that. but i think dirk deserves more credit as well.

if you gave each pf above the mavs roster when they went to the finals twice, only duncan at his peak would've been able to replicate or best what dirk did imo.
I actually think Barkley and KG could have accomplished that in their primes. Barkley was an offensive force and placing him between Marion and Chandler would have hid a lot of his defensive struggles. And imagine a defensive frontcourt of prime KG with Tyson Chandler. :drool:

Malone, however, I struggle to see winning a title with that squad. Aside from a couple of solid postseasons, he regularly hid from the big moments. As a huge underdog against the almighty Miami Heat trio? No way that Mavs team with Malone wins that series.

Alayla
02-01-2013, 08:00 AM
He is right i have been saying this for years Duncan is a center and always has been.

Alayla
02-01-2013, 08:01 AM
I completely agree with him and have said it numerous times. Duncan is a versatile Center. Malone is the best true PF in the history of the game.

:clap:

SanAntonioSpurs23
02-01-2013, 09:19 AM
Duncan is a center ..he is Low post. Pf are high post. he got away with it bc he was young and pop...i see him as a center ...AND NOT AS GOOD AS PEOPLE THINK...IMO HE IS EQUAL TO KG, INFERIOR TO MALONE ,JUST OFF RESUME...MALONE WAS DAMN NEAR 20 YEAR GOOD..DUNCAN HAD A TIME OF 4-5 YEARS WHERE HE WAS GOOD AND HE WASNT AS GOOD AS SHAQ WHICH IMO WHY HE WAS MOSTLY AT PF

Ingles? No Bueno

SanAntonioSpurs23
02-01-2013, 09:21 AM
He is right i have been saying this for years Duncan is a center and always has been.

Really? So the Spurs played two centers from 1997-2007? Robinson, Nesterovic, Elson, Nazr Mohammed, and Fabricio Oberto all played PF?

Raidaz4Life
02-01-2013, 09:54 AM
Really? So the Spurs played two centers from 1997-2007? Robinson, Nesterovic, Elson, Nazr Mohammed, and Fabricio Oberto all played PF?

The point is that Duncan is a post player. And really never played with another player that dominated the post. He got lucky playing with guys at Center who A.) had a reliable midrange game or B.) were never true scoring options,

Thats what I mean by "true PF". Malone hardly missed a beat playing next to Shaq... and at the age of 40. I highly doubt Duncan could do that while maintaining any sort of offensive efficiency. Duncan can shoot the midrange situationally.... sure. But he can't play the perimeter the entire game to give a dominant post player proper spacing.

If we are going by "pseudo power forwards" I'd say Bird is better than them both.

kdspurman
02-01-2013, 10:31 AM
The point is that Duncan is a post player. And really never played with another player that dominated the post. He got lucky playing with guys at Center who A.) had a reliable midrange game or B.) were never true scoring options,

Thats what I mean by "true PF". Malone hardly missed a beat playing next to Shaq... and at the age of 40. I highly doubt Duncan could do that while maintaining any sort of offensive efficiency. Duncan can shoot the midrange situationally.... sure. But he can't play the perimeter the entire game to give a dominant post player proper spacing.

If we are going by "pseudo power forwards" I'd say Bird is better than them both.

So you're saying because Malone wasn't dominant in the post, but could play on the perimeter most of the game that made him a true PF? So what is a "true PF" then? Someone who only takes mid range shots? (Duncan is the guy who mastered the bank shot btw). Not to mention one of the most underrated passing big men in the game, especially in the high-low situation. Recently, playing along side Splitter who has absolutely no mid range game, have you not seen Duncan's play this year? A lot of the time he is not even operating in the post, he's up high, setting screens or working the high-low with Splitter. He had a similar role with Blair next to him cause Blair couldn't hit the mid-range shot either. I'm just confused, so because he could beat you from the mid range, but also take you down low and beat you in the post doesn't make him a "true PF'. He didn't play with many guys who could dominate the post, so the fact that he could is impressive. Great players don't just "do what they're supposed to" They do that and then some, and expand their game and continue to get better. He didn't have the luxury of having a great PG set him up for a ton of open shots/layups.


And I don't remember Malone playing with someone dominant in the post? Antoine Carr, Greg Ostertag? Maybe Malone should've expanded his game and learned some post moves, especially with his size and strength... Imagine how much more dangerous he would've been.

To say he wouldn't have been able to play next to Shaq is bogus. The great thing about him is he's able to adapt to whatever style is on the court. He might be one of the smartest players we've ever seen & I don't think there's anyone he can't play next to.

You can just see here, the amount of shots he's taken as a mid range player this year and last year.

http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player.html#Tim-Duncan|1495;year=201213;season=r

Raidaz4Life
02-01-2013, 10:49 AM
So you're saying because Malone wasn't dominant in the post, but could play on the perimeter most of the game and that made him a true PF? So what is a "true PF" then? Someone who takes mid range shots? Duncan can do that, and mastered the bank shot. Not to mention one of the best passing big men in the game, especially in the high-low situation. Playing along side Splitter who has absolutely no mid range game, have you not seen Duncan's play this year? A lot of the time he is not even operating in the post, he's up high, setting screens or working the high-low with Splitter.

To say he wouldn't be able to play next to Shaq is bogus. The great thing about him is he's able to adapt to whatever style is on the court. He might be one of the smartest players we've ever seen & I don't think there's anyone he can't play next to. I'm just confused, so because he could beat you from the mid range, but also take you down low and beat you in the post doesn't make him a "true PF'. He didn't play with many guys who could dominate the post, so the fact that he could is impressive. Great players don't just "do what they're supposed to" They do that and then some, and expand their game and continue to get better. He didn't have the luxury of having a great PG set him up for a ton of open shots/layups.

And I don't remember Malone playing with someone dominant in the post? Antoine Carr, Greg Ostertag? Maybe Malone should've expanded his game and learned some post moves, especially with his size and strength... Imagine how much more dangerous he would've been.

You can just see here, the amount of shots he's taken as a mid range player this year and last year.

http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player.html#Tim-Duncan|1495;year=201213;season=r

Actually for being 6'9 Malone was a very good post player, he just wasn't utilized in that way as often due to the system that Sloan ran.

And to compare Splitter to Shaq is nuts. In 03-04 Shaq was taking twice the amount of shots that Splitter takes. The point is Malone was far more versatile in terms of being able to play with a true center than Duncan is. Malone was also a better transition player. There is a reason San Antonio has been near the bottom of the league in terms of Pace while Duncan has been there. Duncan is where he is today because Pop knew how to get the most out of him. Pop knew how to make him effective at the PF spot. That doesn't make him any less of a more natural Center playing the Power Forward position though.

And to clarify by traditional PF I don't necessarily mean "strictly taking mid range shots" I do however mean they should have the luxury of being very perimeter oriented to compensate in case they have to play next to a dominant poster player at Center.

kdspurman
02-01-2013, 10:57 AM
Actually for being 6'9 Malone was a very good post player, he just wasn't utilized in that way as often due to the system that Sloan ran.

And to compare Splitter to Shaq is nuts. In 03-04 Shaq was taking twice the amount of shots that Splitter takes. The point is Malone was far more versatile in terms of being able to play with a true center than Duncan is. Malone was also a better transition player. There is a reason San Antonio has been near the bottom of the league in terms of Pace while Duncan has been there. Duncan is where he is today because Pop knew how to get the most out of him. Pop knew how to make him effective at the PF spot. That doesn't make him any less of a more natural Center playing the Power Forward position though.

I had no intention of comparing Splitter to a then dominant Shaq, my bad if it came out that way... I was simply referring to your comment on Duncan not being able contribute to proper floor spacing which he's proven able to do.

The Spurs were always a slow, half court, throw the ball to Tim and let the offense run through him. Single coverage, take the guy to the post, double team, kick out to the shooters, etc... Their system was different. In his prime, he always had the ball. Malone had Stockton on his team. So Stockton was the guy who ran the offense, ran the pick & roll, or pick & pop.

My thing is, just because Malone did more perimeter play (which he had to with a floor general like Stockton most nights) and Tim (being "the guy", and offense running through him) dominating in the post, getting shooters open shots, but also able to take him game to the outside if needed shouldn't make him less of a true PF because he had some versatility to his game.

Alayla
02-01-2013, 01:28 PM
Really? So the Spurs played two centers from 1997-2007? Robinson, Nesterovic, Elson, Nazr Mohammed, and Fabricio Oberto all played PF?

Yes to bold
No to underline

Alayla
02-01-2013, 01:28 PM
Really? So the Spurs played two centers from 1997-2007? Robinson, Nesterovic, Elson, Nazr Mohammed, and Fabricio Oberto all played PF?

.

Tony_Starks
02-01-2013, 02:44 PM
Most people have known this for years. I don't see the big deal, it's not like it takes away from his greatness at all but him playing more of a traditional back to the basket center game was a matchup problem for the typical "new school" PF's...

TornadoOfSouls
02-01-2013, 08:17 PM
The point is that Duncan is a post player. And really never played with another player that dominated the post. He got lucky playing with guys at Center who A.) had a reliable midrange game or B.) were never true scoring options,

Thats what I mean by "true PF". Malone hardly missed a beat playing next to Shaq... and at the age of 40. I highly doubt Duncan could do that while maintaining any sort of offensive efficiency. Duncan can shoot the midrange situationally.... sure. But he can't play the perimeter the entire game to give a dominant post player proper spacing.

If we are going by "pseudo power forwards" I'd say Bird is better than them both.

Talk about uninformed. Duncan's scored the majority of his points, the past few seasons, from mid range jumpshots. This year, for example, only 33% of Duncan's shot attempts come from inside. 67% of his shot attempts come from the mid-range. And the idea that he's isn't efficient from that range is wrong. This chart was from last season:

http://kirkgoldsberry.com/images/Midrange_Maestros.jpg

TornadoOfSouls
02-01-2013, 08:27 PM
Actually for being 6'9 Malone was a very good post player, he just wasn't utilized in that way as often due to the system that Sloan ran.

And to compare Splitter to Shaq is nuts. In 03-04 Shaq was taking twice the amount of shots that Splitter takes. The point is Malone was far more versatile in terms of being able to play with a true center than Duncan is. Malone was also a better transition player. There is a reason San Antonio has been near the bottom of the league in terms of Pace while Duncan has been there. Duncan is where he is today because Pop knew how to get the most out of him. Pop knew how to make him effective at the PF spot. That doesn't make him any less of a more natural Center playing the Power Forward position though.

And to clarify by traditional PF I don't necessarily mean "strictly taking mid range shots" I do however mean they should have the luxury of being very perimeter oriented to compensate in case they have to play next to a dominant poster player at Center.

Wrong again :facepalm:

Spurs are the 3rd fastest team in the league this year according to pace. 7th fastest last year. I'm convinced you've never watched Duncan play as your opinion of him seems to be that he's some slow, lumbering center. Duncan is VERY versatile. The fact that he's won championships with many different cores speaks volumes about this. And I like how you champion Malone as a true PF because of one season he played with Shaq when Duncan spent half his career with one of the best centers in NBA history in Robinson.