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View Full Version : What is the best metric for quantifying defense? A Dwight Howard discussion



Chill_Will_24
01-26-2013, 04:15 PM
A am having this debate with my friend on a different forum who thinks Dwight Howard is no longer a good defender.

What is the proper metrics to utilize in such an argument to gain a perspective on whether he is good or bad?

Help please.

Quinnsanity
01-26-2013, 04:21 PM
There isn't one single metric that quantifies defense. Things like defensive win shares, defensive rating, block percentage and steal percentage all play a part, but with defense the eye test plays the biggest part. I think just from watching Dwight that he's lost a lot of explosiveness because of his back issues. He used to be able to contest pretty much any shot remotely close to the basket and now he's lost a lot of that. In turn, offensive players are a lot more confident about going at him. He's still a good defender, but he's not the DPOY type guy he used to be.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-26-2013, 04:27 PM
eye test. imo, all those stats cant tell how tough the player played his oppenent, even if they made a shot.

or how bad a job the player did defensively, yet the oppenent missed the wide open shot.

judging defense is no easy task

TornadoOfSouls
01-26-2013, 05:02 PM
The old RAPM used to be very good. It exposed a lot of supposedly "good" defenders like Kobe and it usually matched up with my eye test

tredigs
01-26-2013, 05:48 PM
The old RAPM used to be very good. It exposed a lot of supposedly "good" defenders like Kobe and it usually matched up with my eye test

As opposed to the current? What's changed in your opinion? I find RAPM the best single metric by far. And yes Dwight scores highly in it (defensively, weak offensively).

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-26-2013, 05:56 PM
damn just checked up this years RAPM.. and wow KG's defense has been phenomenal.

KniCks4LiFe
01-26-2013, 06:07 PM
damn just checked up this years RAPM.. and wow KG's defense has been phenomenal.

he's been incredible for his age. But he gets away w/ alot of vet stuff. I love the RAPM metric it shows so much that your eyes see. To whomever asked about Howard, his D has been stellar it's his offense that has been under pedestrian levels. Kobe's D is long gone. Playing PGs is not making it any better.

Yunqn
01-26-2013, 06:09 PM
How can u check the rapm ? Where do u go ?

Chill_Will_24
01-26-2013, 06:21 PM
How can u check the rapm ? Where do u go ?

This and can someone explain the metric for me? Swashcuff explained it to me once but i still do not follow. Is is a plus/minus metric?

Money_23
01-26-2013, 06:27 PM
recordings of games.

KniCks4LiFe
01-26-2013, 06:43 PM
This and can someone explain the metric for me? Swashcuff explained it to me once but i still do not follow. Is is a plus/minus metric?

It's Regularized Adjusted Plus Minus. Case in short a more accurate method to measure players progression and regressions on offense and defense. It started being used on WNBA advanced stats and this year NBA blog experts have used it but it represents how well or not a player really is playing. For instance

Kobe Bryant is having a hell of an offensive year. But his OFF xRAPM is 3.76 while CP3 is 7.12 and LeBron is 6.44, showing how more efficient they are on the court.

Another example is the Brooklyn Nyets backcourt D

DEF x RAPM

DWill -3.44
JJ -0.23
Bogans -0.21
Watson -2.27

Meanwhile the starting frontcourt

Lopez 1.14
Evans 1.54
Wallace 2.93

Meaning Wallace, Evans and Lopez are their best defender covering up for the backcourt's mistakes.

Sly Guy
01-26-2013, 06:44 PM
depends on position. For the wings, you look at opponent fg%, defensive rebounding, steals, blocks, opponent ppp.
Bigs have greater responsibility, so you could even look at team stats like points in the paint while they're on the floor in addition to the stats mentioned for wings.

All that being said, it's very tough. Defensive play is underrated in general because it's much harder to quantify

KniCks4LiFe
01-26-2013, 06:53 PM
it's too early to tell if it's the greatest measure. But it's pretty accurate. For instance my Knicks are falling hard in that stat measure but I'm ngl, it's pretty accurate.

Chill_Will_24
01-26-2013, 07:40 PM
It's Regularized Adjusted Plus Minus. Case in short a more accurate method to measure players progression and regressions on offense and defense. It started being used on WNBA advanced stats and this year NBA blog experts have used it but it represents how well or not a player really is playing. For instance

Kobe Bryant is having a hell of an offensive year. But his OFF xRAPM is 3.76 while CP3 is 7.12 and LeBron is 6.44, showing how more efficient they are on the court.

Another example is the Brooklyn Nyets backcourt D

DEF x RAPM

DWill -3.44
JJ -0.23
Bogans -0.21
Watson -2.27

Meanwhile the starting frontcourt

Lopez 1.14
Evans 1.54
Wallace 2.93

Meaning Wallace, Evans and Lopez are their best defender covering up for the backcourt's mistakes.

Seems consistent with what we know about the game when you see Chandler, Howard, Asik and Noah among the best defenders in that metric.

Yunqn
01-26-2013, 09:13 PM
It's Regularized Adjusted Plus Minus. Case in short a more accurate method to measure players progression and regressions on offense and defense. It started being used on WNBA advanced stats and this year NBA blog experts have used it but it represents how well or not a player really is playing. For instance

Kobe Bryant is having a hell of an offensive year. But his OFF xRAPM is 3.76 while CP3 is 7.12 and LeBron is 6.44, showing how more efficient they are on the court.

Another example is the Brooklyn Nyets backcourt D

DEF x RAPM

DWill -3.44
JJ -0.23
Bogans -0.21
Watson -2.27

Meanwhile the starting frontcourt

Lopez 1.14
Evans 1.54
Wallace 2.93

Meaning Wallace, Evans and Lopez are their best defender covering up for the backcourt's mistakes.

Where can i go to find this info out?