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View Full Version : Why does Westrbook shoot so much?



Fired-Up
01-24-2013, 01:24 AM
I don't have a problem with it quite frankly. The Thunder aren't my team. What they do is what they do. But I can't help, but wonder why? It is by design? Does the coach want him shooting so much? I could understand if he was the only offensive option. But they have the best scorer in the league. They have Ibaka who has a jumper and some moves. They have spot up shooters. Even when they had Harden he shot a lot.

Westbrook plays point guard and shoots more shots per minute than the best scorer in the NBA. Shouldn't Durant be shooting 22-24 times a game? His efficiency warrants that. There have been extreme ball dominant shooters before like Jordan, Kobe and Shaq. You could argue that in Jordan's and Shaq's case it was beneficial for the team. If a guy is shooting over 50% give him the ball.

I guess my question is why is Westbrook shooting so much year in and year out when he clearly isn't as effective as the #1 option. Plus his field goal percentage is lower than you want regardless.

Chronz
01-24-2013, 01:39 AM
In short, because hes not able to put up big numbers without chucking. Whereas K-Mart and Durant can go for 20-30 with like 10 attempts

Fired-Up
01-24-2013, 01:41 AM
In short, because hes not able to put up big numbers without chucking. Whereas K-Mart and Durant can go for 20-30 with like 10 attempts

Yes that's true, but by shooting a large volume of shots and missing most of them doesn't that hurt the team?

Baller1
01-24-2013, 02:05 AM
Because he's very, very good at basketball...?

LAKobeBryant
01-24-2013, 02:06 AM
Russell AirBrooks. I never seen a player air ball so much a game. he had like 3 air balls?

And to your question, he's trying keep durant away from a ring.

RipCity32
01-24-2013, 02:11 AM
sometimes I wonder how many other guys in the league could avg 20+ points if they had the freedom to put up 20+attempts like the superstars.

Chronz
01-24-2013, 02:11 AM
Yes that's true, but by shooting a large volume of shots and missing most of them doesn't that hurt the team?

No because they need his production. And there is uncertainty that the rest of the team could handle the greater load.

Thats the theory at least, personally Im with most people that say he should reign it in alil but some people are too extreme. When he has it going, he makes that team dangerous.

Fired-Up
01-24-2013, 02:17 AM
No because they need his production. And there is uncertainty that the rest of the team could handle the greater load.

Thats the theory at least, personally Im with most people that say he should reign it in alil but some people are too extreme. When he has it going, he makes that team dangerous.

That's true. He takes shots when shots need to be created. When you need someone to get their own shot you don't go to Perkins. Still though his efficiency is low.

seikou8
01-24-2013, 02:58 AM
he averages less shot attempts and more assosts than last year and is alll star pg who is very good. his all around play is why he top 12 player this league.

bigmac8675
01-24-2013, 02:58 AM
Cause he can make some of them.... plus someone needs to step it up besides Durant. However, his shot selection can be very poor at times.

meloman1592
01-24-2013, 03:19 AM
his problem isn't the AMOUNT of shots he takes, it's the times and angles that he takes them. He doesn't take too many shots, just bad shots

Manimal
01-24-2013, 03:20 AM
It's not the amount of shots that's the problem. It's the amount of bad shots. He takes way too many mid range jumpers too early in the shot clock.

And don't give me the "He's being aggressive" BS. Being aggresive is getting to the rim, not settling for mid range shots early in the shot clock.

Having said that, he does so many things well, that OKC must just live with this flaw of his. He's a superstar 90% of the time and that is worth it for the 10% of the time that he is a frustrating chucker.

ThaDubs
01-24-2013, 04:06 AM
Because the Warriors are too good.

tredigs
01-24-2013, 04:10 AM
It's not the amount of shots that's the problem. It's the amount of bad shots. He takes way too many mid range jumpers too early in the shot clock.

And don't give me the "He's being aggressive" BS. Being aggresive is getting to the rim, not settling for mid range shots early in the shot clock.

Having said that, he does so many things well, that OKC must just live with this flaw of his. He's a superstar 90% of the time and that is worth it for the 10% of the time that he is a frustrating chucker.

He's exactly right here.

Sadds The Gr8
01-24-2013, 04:32 AM
It's not the amount of shots that's the problem. It's the amount of bad shots. He takes way too many mid range jumpers too early in the shot clock.

And don't give me the "He's being aggressive" BS. Being aggresive is getting to the rim, not settling for mid range shots early in the shot clock.

Having said that, he does so many things well, that OKC must just live with this flaw of his. He's a superstar 90% of the time and that is worth it for the 10% of the time that he is a frustrating chucker.

this

Hardaway Here
01-24-2013, 04:47 AM
That would be my main beef is how early in the shot clock he takes those jumpers, but hey if he continues to take those and at a higher volume he really should get dpoy. He is the only player outside of LeBron maybe who can hold KD under 25pts a game

fin_frenzy_84
01-24-2013, 04:49 AM
IMO Westbrook is overrated! His field goal percentage is pretty awful! He also has alot of bonehead mistakes

arealballer
01-24-2013, 06:27 AM
I just saw the end of the G.S. game. Westbrick threw up an airball from 3. Then Dumbbrook threw the ball away for a TO on the next possession, sealing the game for GS.

Dumbbrook's basketball IQ is in the bottom 10% of the league. It just goes to show you how good Durant is for carrying this bum and the equally idiotic head coach.

NYKnickFanatic
01-24-2013, 09:53 AM
Yes that's true, but by shooting a large volume of shots and missing most of them doesn't that hurt the team?

Obviously a little, but not much because they are still number one out in the West.

Sly Guy
01-24-2013, 10:06 AM
It's not the amount of shots that's the problem. It's the amount of bad shots. He takes way too many mid range jumpers too early in the shot clock.

And don't give me the "He's being aggressive" BS. Being aggresive is getting to the rim, not settling for mid range shots early in the shot clock.

Having said that, he does so many things well, that OKC must just live with this flaw of his. He's a superstar 90% of the time and that is worth it for the 10% of the time that he is a frustrating chucker.

this. But what worries me is that once his athleticism wanes as his career progresses, he's going to have to rely on his bball iq to play effectively. But as mentioned by a few others in here, his bball iq is often called into question.

He115ing
01-24-2013, 10:09 AM
Because he is one of those scoring shooting guards stuck in a pg body.

Manimal
01-24-2013, 10:13 AM
this. But what worries me is that once his athleticism wanes as his career progresses, he's going to have to rely on his bball iq to play effectively. But as mentioned by a few others in here, his bball iq is often called into question.

He's 23 right now. He's got atleast 7-8 good years in him. I do see him as a better passer this year and an all round better player compared to last year. So to think he won't improve his IQ ove the next 7-8 seems a stretch.

BTW people just hating on Westbrook here, he makes some mistakes but nowhere near as many as people would tell you. I guess most of the haters belong to the Skip Bayless school ignorance.

If Westbrook were available today, 25 of the 30 teams would be lining up to trade for him.

kdspurman
01-24-2013, 10:20 AM
I don't know, but I like when he gets in the I'm going to shoot no matter how bad the shot is mode.

Makes it easier on the other team, and keeps the ball out of Durant's hands

ChitownSports16
01-24-2013, 11:54 AM
Because he's very, very good at basketball...?

if you call chucking good, I guess.

ChitownSports16
01-24-2013, 11:56 AM
I just saw the end of the G.S. game. Westbrick threw up an airball from 3. Then Dumbbrook threw the ball away for a TO on the next possession, sealing the game for GS.

Dumbbrook's basketball IQ is in the bottom 10% of the league. It just goes to show you how good Durant is for carrying this bum and the equally idiotic head coach.

Agreeeed! This guy wouldnt be able to carry a top 10 team. He's been overrated in my book for a while.

blahblahyoutoo
01-24-2013, 11:59 AM
IMO Westbrook is overrated! His field goal percentage is pretty awful! He also has alot of bonehead mistakes

He's also really, really ugly.

Big Zo
01-24-2013, 12:02 PM
Because "pass" rhymes with "***."

LAKobeBryant
01-24-2013, 12:29 PM
Their 3 best offensive players are jump shooters. Live and die with the shots.

sep11ie
01-24-2013, 12:36 PM
It's because he misses 100% of the shots he doesn't take.

Baller1
01-24-2013, 01:23 PM
if you call chucking good, I guess.

Yeah, lets disregard the fact that he's also top 5 in assists and top 5 in steals in the league. One of the top rebounding PG's in the game today, and he's the PG of the top team in the NBA.

But yeah, he's just a chucker.

Where are the threads about Westbrook when he's putting up 30-12-10 triple doubles? Or when he's dropping 40 on >25 shots? They don't happen, because Westy can do no right.

Baller1
01-24-2013, 01:27 PM
Just last week, Westbrook had 36-8-5 on 14/24 shooting with 1 turnover. Does that ever get talked about? Because games like last night are much less frequent from Westbrook than strong games like this.

Westbrook is nothing more than a scapegoat, no matter what he does.

Corey
01-24-2013, 01:32 PM
Probably because their coach gamplans for him to shoot a lot.

Westbrook being dangerous offensively makes it easier for KD and KM to get theirs.

Fired-Up
01-24-2013, 01:36 PM
Just last week, Westbrook had 36-8-5 on 14/24 shooting with 1 turnover. Does that ever get talked about? Because games like last night are much less frequent from Westbrook than strong games like this.

Westbrook is nothing more than a scapegoat, no matter what he does.

I think he is a good player. But a typical night from the Thunder is this. Westbrook is 6-17 heading into the 4th. Durant is 8-13 heading into the 4th. Thunder down by 3. Then it's ok "I'm Westbrook, I tried to be the star of the team even though I'm just a point guard. Now I'm going to give the ball to the best scorer in the NBA so we can win the game. Occasionally I get over amped and I just shoot anyways, however considering I shoot well under 50 percent we might lose this game, but damnit I'm alpha. I'm the star. Durant's skinny *** can deal with it"

I don't think that is overdramatizing their games. That scenario is played out often and you have to wonder why isn't Durant shooting with volume all game long. Like 22-25 shots a game.

ManRam
01-24-2013, 01:40 PM
Westbrook is nothing more than a scapegoat, no matter what he does.

KD has it sooooo good because of that!

Not that KD really has ever needed a scapegoat....


Westbrook sometimes does take too many bad shots, and often it is frequent, but it rarely hurts the offense. He shouldn't be taking more shots than KD in theory like he is, but the Thunder do have the best offense in the NBA...so it clearly is working at least fine enough.

He's a top 10 player in the league. If he weren't playing with KD he'd get no flack, I'm sure. KD makes some of the scapegoating warranted to a tiny margin, but not to the margin people blow it up to be. People blasted him non-stop for his lack of passing last year...and this year he's been a top 5-6 passer. He won't get many props for that, and really hasn't, but I doubt he cares. His team's offense is the best in the league, so even though he might not fit your definition of what a PG "should be", he's getting it done. And that's all that matters.


I don't think he's trying to outshine KD. I don't think there's any selfish motive like that. He just knows he's required to do a lot of scoring and he has no confidence problems. It seems like some people think KD should be shooting the ball 30 times a game. Dude's the soon-to-be 3X scoring champion. Russy ain't holding him back much...if at all.

AIRMAR72
01-24-2013, 01:50 PM
because durant is such good humble young man and could score at WILL he allows IT

sammyvine
01-24-2013, 01:55 PM
I think he is a good player. But a typical night from the Thunder is this. Westbrook is 6-17 heading into the 4th. Durant is 8-13 heading into the 4th. Thunder down by 3. Then it's ok "I'm Westbrook, I tried to be the star of the team even though I'm just a point guard. Now I'm going to give the ball to the best scorer in the NBA so we can win the game. Occasionally I get over amped and I just shoot anyways, however considering I shoot well under 50 percent we might lose this game, but damnit I'm alpha. I'm the star. Durant's skinny *** can deal with it"

I don't think that is overdramatizing their games. That scenario is played out often and you have to wonder why isn't Durant shooting with volume all game long. Like 22-25 shots a game.

Every-time i watch him, he always has one of those nights. Whenever i do not watch OKC, he goes 20/24 or whatever/

Probably the dumbest all star of all time. I wish Durant was playing with CP3/

sammyvine
01-24-2013, 01:56 PM
Yeah, lets disregard the fact that he's also top 5 in assists and top 5 in steals in the league. One of the top rebounding PG's in the game today, and he's the PG of the top team in the NBA.

But yeah, he's just a chucker.

Where are the threads about Westbrook when he's putting up 30-12-10 triple doubles? Or when he's dropping 40 on >25 shots? They don't happen, because Westy can do no right.

It's easy to be top 5 in assists when your playing with the best scorer in the game and a very good shooter in Kevin Martin.

sammyvine
01-24-2013, 01:58 PM
KD has it sooooo good because of that!

Not that KD really has ever needed a scapegoat....


Westbrook sometimes does take too many bad shots, and often it is frequent, but it rarely hurts the offense. He shouldn't be taking more shots than KD in theory like he is, but the Thunder do have the best offense in the NBA...so it clearly is working at least fine enough.

He's a top 10 player in the league. If he weren't playing with KD he'd get no flack, I'm sure. KD makes some of the scapegoating warranted to a tiny margin, but not to the margin people blow it up to be. People blasted him non-stop for his lack of passing last year...and this year he's been a top 5-6 passer. He won't get many props for that, and really hasn't, but I doubt he cares. His team's offense is the best in the league, so even though he might not fit your definition of what a PG "should be", he's getting it done. And that's all that matters.


I don't think he's trying to outshine KD. I don't think there's any selfish motive like that. He just knows he's required to do a lot of scoring and he has no confidence problems. It seems like some people think KD should be shooting the ball 30 times a game. Dude's the soon-to-be 3X scoring champion. Russy ain't holding him back much...if at all.

They will always come up short with him as PG. No matter how many people wanna say they got to the finals, or the got to the WCF, it ultimately means nothing if you come up short most of the time.

The more he shoots, the more he takes shots away from Durant. I can't believe people think he is better than Derrick Rose.

ManRam
01-24-2013, 02:07 PM
They will always come up short with him as PG. No matter how many people wanna say they got to the finals, or the got to the WCF, it ultimately means nothing if you come up short most of the time.

The more he shoots, the more he takes shots away from Durant. I can't believe people think he is better than Derrick Rose.

If Derrick Rose played with a KD and took as many shots as he does now he'd get the exact same criticism. Their games are wildly similar. It's just because people have a distorted notion of what a PG should or should not be.


I just think the whole "they can't win with Russell Westbrook" argument is one of the most baseless argument there is. They DID make it to the Finals with him. They DO have the best offense in the NBA with him. What more do you expect them to do?

It's more amazing that people are so eager to discredit his every move. These same people saying "it's easy to get so many assists while playing with KD" are the same people who probably blasted him last year for not passing the ball more. He can do no good in most people's eyes. The ultimate scapegoat. KD is so lucky: he's got a scapegoat on his side, and a scapegoat that helps make the team one of the very best in the league. It's win-win for him.

Fired-Up
01-24-2013, 02:13 PM
Durant makes the Thunder. Why is that so hard to comprehend? He's so clearly elite it's not even funny. That's why they win. Along with good frontcourt defense.

Skip Bayless by the way is frying Westbrook right now on ESPN.

Trailblazer
01-24-2013, 02:20 PM
They will always come up short with him as PG. No matter how many people wanna say they got to the finals, or the got to the WCF, it ultimately means nothing if you come up short most of the time.

The more he shoots, the more he takes shots away from Durant. I can't believe people think he is better than Derrick Rose.

I think most will agree that WB shoots alot and most of the times, his shot attempts are more than durant sometimes. He takes quite often some really poor shots. He is a volume scorer and not an efficient one at that. And this is what I think frustrates many. He plays beside one of the most talented and efficient scorer in the nba in Durant but yet shoots it more than he does.

Over the years as I have watched these two play, it's been my observation that sometimes what holds durant back in his number of shot attempts is Durant himself. Westbrook is certainly a factor as well but not the sole factor. Sometimes as I see it, durant doesn't aggressively call for the ball or even fight for positioning. Other times, he is parked behind the three point line with no movement involved. Westbrook sees that Durant isn't doing anything and thus decides to make something happen.

Imo, they both play apart in it.

tredigs
01-24-2013, 02:43 PM
Just last week, Westbrook had 36-8-5 on 14/24 shooting with 1 turnover. Does that ever get talked about? Because games like last night are much less frequent from Westbrook than strong games like this.

Westbrook is nothing more than a scapegoat, no matter what he does.

I'm not a basher of Westbrook by any means, love him and the Thunder, but the fact of the matter is that nobody is looking at one game here. Over the course of the season (and most of his career), he's averaging 18.8 FGA to KD's 18.5. And shooting 41.9% from the field with a 51.9% TS%. KD on the other hand shoots 52% from the field and has a TS% of 65.7%. KD's field goal% (even with how many 3's he takes) is actually higher than Westbrook's TS%. It's inexcusable to be taking the most shots on the team when the best scorer since Jordan is on the floor with you.

Even last night when Westbrook was like 1-7 and KD COULD NOT BE STOPPED and was 6/7, Westbrook just kept taking pull ups. As a Warriors fan I was so happy.

sammyvine
01-24-2013, 02:56 PM
I think most will agree that WB shoots alot and most of the times, his shot attempts are more than durant sometimes. He takes quite often some really poor shots. He is a volume scorer and not an efficient one at that. And this is what I think frustrates many. He plays beside one of the most talented and efficient scorer in the nba in Durant but yet shoots it more than he does.

Over the years as I have watched these two play, it's been my observation that sometimes what holds durant back in his number of shot attempts is Durant himself. Westbrook is certainly a factor as well but not the sole factor. Sometimes as I see it, durant doesn't aggressively call for the ball or even fight for positioning. Other times, he is parked behind the three point line with no movement involved. Westbrook sees that Durant isn't doing anything and thus decides to make something happen.

Imo, they both play apart in it.

Agree:)

He is a good player, a potential superstar maybe, but he doesnt fit with Durant imo. He wants to be the man, the No.1 offensive player on the team, and that doesnt work if you have a player called Kevin Durant on your team.
I think Durant should take some blame too. He is too nice imo, although we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, it doesnt seem to bother him that much. I don't think MJ or even Kobe would allow their ''Robin'', to chuck as much as he does, and sometimes even take more shots. How can you out-shoot the best scorer in the NBA? Westbrook plays like Iverson/Kobe which doesn't fit the players OKC have.

Who knows they may win, they may not, but i think when they play against good teams, and the game gets tight his poor IQ will come into question and a bone headed play will make them loose.

topdog
01-24-2013, 03:06 PM
Over the years as I have watched these two play, it's been my observation that sometimes what holds durant back in his number of shot attempts is Durant himself. Westbrook is certainly a factor as well but not the sole factor. Sometimes as I see it, durant doesn't aggressively call for the ball or even fight for positioning. Other times, he is parked behind the three point line with no movement involved. Westbrook sees that Durant isn't doing anything and thus decides to make something happen.

Imo, they both play apart in it.

I agree that Durant doesn't always look for the ball and it's hard to say that he could maintain his percentages if he got up more shots (which he may be avoiding taking in the first place). Obviously, I think Durant should be getting more shots a game than Westbrook, but Russ should not be taken for granted as an inside pressure on defenses that can clear space for Durant's shooting. Consider if you put Rubio in his place. Durant would get set up for some easy attempts, but defenses would also cheat off Rubio knowing he is not likely to shoot.

ThuglifeJ
01-24-2013, 03:09 PM
Westbrook fits horribly with durant. With the leagues best scorer it should be yourr job to set him up where he wants the ball..
Could you imagine CP3 next to durant?.. if ddurant wasnt so nice an humble he probably would have no kind words for westbrook at all.

The only people who constantly defend him are Baller and Manram. But there purpose on this earth is just to piss people off and remain arrogant through it all.


Westbrook is a joke sometimes. I dont think he wants to last in this league very long with his attitude and iq

Baller1
01-24-2013, 03:10 PM
I think he is a good player. But a typical night from the Thunder is this. Westbrook is 6-17 heading into the 4th. Durant is 8-13 heading into the 4th. Thunder down by 3. Then it's ok "I'm Westbrook, I tried to be the star of the team even though I'm just a point guard. Now I'm going to give the ball to the best scorer in the NBA so we can win the game. Occasionally I get over amped and I just shoot anyways, however considering I shoot well under 50 percent we might lose this game, but damnit I'm alpha. I'm the star. Durant's skinny *** can deal with it"

I don't think that is overdramatizing their games. That scenario is played out often and you have to wonder why isn't Durant shooting with volume all game long. Like 22-25 shots a game.

Typical Thunder game? Not even in the slightest.

A typical Thunder game is being up by 10-20 going into the fourth quarter with KD and Westbrook both scoring 20+ and not having to play the fourth because the game is already over.

sammyvine
01-24-2013, 03:14 PM
If Derrick Rose played with a KD and took as many shots as he does now he'd get the exact same criticism. Their games are wildly similar. It's just because people have a distorted notion of what a PG should or should not be.


I just think the whole "they can't win with Russell Westbrook" argument is one of the most baseless argument there is. They DID make it to the Finals with him. They DO have the best offense in the NBA with him. What more do you expect them to do?

It's more amazing that people are so eager to discredit his every move. These same people saying "it's easy to get so many assists while playing with KD" are the same people who probably blasted him last year for not passing the ball more. He can do no good in most people's eyes. The ultimate scapegoat. KD is so lucky: he's got a scapegoat on his side, and a scapegoat that helps make the team one of the very best in the league. It's win-win for him.

Derrick Rose has a higher basketball IQ. If Derrick rose played with another superstar, i don't think he would mind deferring, and he certainly won't chuck the way Westbrook does, when you have Durant on your team. Rose plays the way he plays, since the Bulls lack a genuine 2nd option offensively.

sammyvine
01-24-2013, 03:15 PM
Westbrook fits horribly with durant. With the leagues best scorer it should be yourr job to set him up where he wants the ball..
Could you imagine CP3 next to durant?.. if ddurant wasnt so nice an humble he probably would have no kind words for westbrook at all.

The only people who constantly defend him are Baller and Manram. But there purpose on this earth is just to piss people off and remain arrogant through it all.


Westbrook is a joke sometimes. I dont think he wants to last in this league very long with his attitude and iq

He is an all star and i am sure many teams would offer him max so i am not sure i agree with the ''out of the league'' comment.

Also i think he has a good attitude. He obviously cares and plays hard, so i don't see any negatives there?

sep11ie
01-24-2013, 03:15 PM
Ooooh, he's talking about Westrbook.

OceanSpray
01-24-2013, 03:35 PM
I hate how people say he shoots so much but when he does play well, people forget about it. He's still a top 15 player, stop crying.

Fired-Up
01-24-2013, 04:40 PM
Typical Thunder game? Not even in the slightest.

A typical Thunder game is being up by 10-20 going into the fourth quarter with KD and Westbrook both scoring 20+ and not having to play the fourth because the game is already over.

Maybe so against scrub teams. They aren't going to be up 10-20 against the Heat and Spurs. Who are the teams they actually have to beat.

Baller1
01-24-2013, 04:42 PM
Maybe so against scrub teams. They aren't going to be up 10-20 against the Heat and Spurs. Who are the teams they actually have to beat.

True, but you're making it sound like Westbrook consistently has games like he did last night, which is not the case at all.

OceanSpray
01-24-2013, 04:47 PM
Give me 5 PG's who are better than Westbrook. The reason Westbrook is playing this way is because he's not that kind of player. He's a Derrick Rose type of player who needs the ball. When you ask him to play alongside an elite scorer such as Durant, you take away his confidence to play the way he's naturally supposed to play.

Chronz
01-24-2013, 04:52 PM
Derrick Rose has a higher basketball IQ. If Derrick rose played with another superstar, i don't think he would mind deferring, and he certainly won't chuck the way Westbrook does, when you have Durant on your team. Rose plays the way he plays, since the Bulls lack a genuine 2nd option offensively.

For some reason I agree, they have similar numbers and athleticism, but Rose plays a more controlled game IMO.

popo85
01-24-2013, 04:59 PM
His at his best when he is attacking the hoop he needs to use his athleticism more and not force such bad shots.

ThuglifeJ
01-24-2013, 05:46 PM
He is an all star and i am sure many teams would offer him max so i am not sure i agree with the ''out of the league'' comment.

Also i think he has a good attitude. He obviously cares and plays hard, so i don't see any negatives there?

I'm referring to once he nears his 30s. His lack of maturity and basketball IQ make it seem like he'll only have a 10 or 11 year career max.
Just my opinion there. I've seen AI, Francis, Marbury, all those guys just drop off once any age caught up. Those guys all had phenominal basketball IQs tho.
Not to mention he's literally all athleticism. It's not like he has a pure shot, it's based off his stop and pops from..athletic legs.

Money_23
01-24-2013, 05:49 PM
he wants the scoring title.

texanmonstra011
01-24-2013, 05:51 PM
he was a SG in college. hes still making the transition to PG. It takes a few years and he's a big time scorer. It only looks bad because he plays along side a even better scorer

ThuglifeJ
01-24-2013, 05:55 PM
I hate how people say he shoots so much but when he does play well, people forget about it. He's still a top 15 player, stop crying.

That's not true, fans just know he's gonna come out the next game with the same darn habits that annoy everyone..

Come on he's done it over and over again especially in the Playoffs. Even in the FINALS. His criticism is fully deserved!

I dont care how good he is, he's not as good as Durant. No one is as good as Durant at scoring. There is absolutely no reason a league top scorer should have to put up with a chucky point guard. Durant is just very nice and humble, if Kobe or Melo had to deal with a Westbrook they would give it 5 games and then start calling it out.

ThuglifeJ
01-24-2013, 05:57 PM
Derrick Rose has a higher basketball IQ. If Derrick rose played with another superstar, i don't think he would mind deferring, and he certainly won't chuck the way Westbrook does, when you have Durant on your team. Rose plays the way he plays, since the Bulls lack a genuine 2nd option offensively.

Agree with this.

OceanSpray
01-24-2013, 05:59 PM
That's not true, fans just know he's gonna come out the next game with the same darn habits that annoy everyone..

Come on he's done it over and over again especially in the Playoffs. Even in the FINALS. His criticism is fully deserved!

I dont care how good he is, he's not as good as Durant. No one is as good as Durant at scoring. There is absolutely no reason a league top scorer should have to put up with a chucky point guard. Durant is just very nice and humble, if Kobe or Melo had to deal with a Westbrook they would give it 5 games and then start calling it out.

So you reckon OKC will be a better team without Westbrook? I admit, Westbrook makes bad decisions. But he never gets the credit he deserves. He's forced to play with Durant who is an elite scorer. Westbrook isn't a born passer.

sammyvine
01-24-2013, 06:01 PM
I'm referring to once he nears his 30s. His lack of maturity and basketball IQ make it seem like he'll only have a 10 or 11 year career max.
Just my opinion there. I've seen AI, Francis, Marbury, all those guys just drop off once any age caught up. Those guys all had phenominal basketball IQs tho.
Not to mention he's literally all athleticism. It's not like he has a pure shot, it's based off his stop and pops from..athletic legs.

Ohhh i certainly agree with that

Players like him, Rose, Dwight Howard will not have long careers at the top because they will be useless once their athleticism goes. Like you said, Westbrook without athleticism will be ugly to watch. He's not a smart player, not a great shooter, not a great passer. Basically he's an a great athlete .

That's why i have always personally valued skilled players than athletic ones like Tim Duncan, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce etc...
Those players can play till their 50.

jazzyjake
01-24-2013, 06:06 PM
So you reckon OKC will be a better team without Westbrook? I admit, Westbrook makes bad decisions. But he never gets the credit he deserves. He's forced to play with Durant who is an elite scorer. Westbrook isn't a born passer.

Westbrook is an athlete, not a basketball player. He is such a good athlete that his lack of basketball skills gets forgotten.
One of the dumbest nba max players ever imo.

jazzyjake
01-24-2013, 06:08 PM
Give me 5 PG's who are better than Westbrook. The reason Westbrook is playing this way is because he's not that kind of player. He's a Derrick Rose type of player who needs the ball. When you ask him to play alongside an elite scorer such as Durant, you take away his confidence to play the way he's naturally supposed to play.

Lol he is a player with limited basketball skills. He is a great athlete though which is why he has made it in the nba and become one of the best players.
He is not a skilled player which is why Magic Johnson called him out and said he was the worst PG he has ever seen in a finals (although a bit extreme). His shots were not falling, but he still kept on chucking as if he were playing 1/1
He has a poor basketball IQ and doesnt seem to know he has a scoring champion next to him.

Players like him, i hate watching. Lebron is a supreme athlete, but has so much skill with his court vision.
5 PG's i will take over Westbrook.
Rose, CP3, Parker, Rondo, Irving even though he's 19.

ManRam
01-24-2013, 06:23 PM
Derrick Rose has a higher basketball IQ. If Derrick rose played with another superstar, i don't think he would mind deferring, and he certainly won't chuck the way Westbrook does, when you have Durant on your team. Rose plays the way he plays, since the Bulls lack a genuine 2nd option offensively.

I don't think you have a shred of evidence to support this.

poleandreel
01-24-2013, 06:25 PM
I love Okc, and I always support Westbrook.

But I just looked over the finals stats and my god, if Westy gave some more shots to KD, those close game losses for OKC would have been wins.

I don't care if he shoots alot but I just wish Durant would take more. Russ should be at like 15-17 with Durant being at 18-20.

Kevin Martin should be getting more than 10 shots, that is a ****ing crime and it makes me so mad.

ThuglifeJ
01-24-2013, 06:30 PM
So you reckon OKC will be a better team without Westbrook? I admit, Westbrook makes bad decisions. But he never gets the credit he deserves. He's forced to play with Durant who is an elite scorer. Westbrook isn't a born passer.

No. I mean if you subbed Westbrook out for like CP3 then yes obviously.

That's not a good excuse tho, if you're playing alongside Durant you can't just say 'im not a born passer'. He needs to set Durant up more, and if he's not capable he simply needs to defer more, simple as that. Westbrook should not get more shots then friggin KEVIN DURANT

Fired-Up
01-24-2013, 06:33 PM
If the years go by and OKC doesn't win a championship this issue is only going to become more and more hammered. Durant is heading into the years of his career where it's championship or bust.

OceanSpray
01-24-2013, 06:33 PM
No. I mean if you subbed Westbrook out for like CP3 then yes obviously.

That's not a good excuse tho, if you're playing alongside Durant you can't just say 'im not a born passer'. He needs to set Durant up more, and if he's not capable he simply needs to defer more, simple as that. Westbrook should not get more shots then friggin KEVIN DURANT

You don't seem to get it. Westbrook's natural ability isn't passing. He doesn't have that mentality. That's like saying you could put Bosh as a center and expect him to grab 10+ rebounds. It's not happening. That's not his strength. OKC should've took the trade with Westbrook for Rondo when they had a chance. They didn't. They stuck with Westbrook.

I'm not saying Westbrook is better than Paul. I'm just simply stating that Westbrook is more of a positive than negative.

ThuglifeJ
01-24-2013, 06:37 PM
I'm not saying Westbrook is better than Paul. I'm just simply stating that Westbrook is more of a positive than negative.

He's more of a positive on a lower-tier team. He's more of a negative on any team that wants to win a championship. He literally cost them playoff games and the finals.

Magic Johnson is a smart dude, when he says you're the worst pg in the finals ever you are. The 4th quarter numbers back him up on that

poleandreel
01-24-2013, 06:37 PM
Oh so if you subbed out westbrook for the best PG in the league and of the last decade they would be better?
NO ****.

ThuglifeJ
01-24-2013, 06:39 PM
The reason why the criticism is even more heated is simple.

Once he made the biggest *** of himself in the finals he had no choice but to correct his bad habits that lost it for them. We all knew that and gave him a shot to redeem himself the next seasons. He's the damn same he was then, he'll never change he thinks he's a god

I used to dislike Lebron a lot but look what he did, he matured he grew. He did what he needed to do to take that next step.

72 Wins
01-24-2013, 06:39 PM
Players like him, Rose, Dwight Howard will not have long careers at the top because they will be useless once their athleticism goes.

Too early to say just yet... They said the same about Jordan... Howard, Rose, Westbrook, etc. can change and evolve.

seikou8
01-24-2013, 06:57 PM
He's more of a positive on a lower-tier team. He's more of a negative on any team that wants to win a championship. He literally cost them playoff games and the finals.

Magic Johnson is a smart dude, when he says you're the worst pg in the finals ever you are. The 4th quarter numbers back him up on that

:facepalm: westbrook hate is laughable

OceanSpray
01-24-2013, 07:03 PM
He's more of a positive on a lower-tier team. He's more of a negative on any team that wants to win a championship. He literally cost them playoff games and the finals.

Magic Johnson is a smart dude, when he says you're the worst pg in the finals ever you are. The 4th quarter numbers back him up on that

So it wasn't Harden's fault at all.. Hmmm. Once again, you're discrediting Westbrook just because Durant is on his team. He needs to take less shots but that's like telling Durant to stop scoring. Westbrook's natural ability is to score. He might not be good at it but that's his strength.

Lim
01-24-2013, 08:03 PM
whoever is in charge of OKC is ********. fire scott brooks, trade westbrook, keep harden. they do the opposite. easiest decision of all time

OceanSpray
01-24-2013, 08:04 PM
whoever is in charge of OKC is ********. fire scott brooks, trade westbrook, keep harden. they do the opposite. easiest decision of all time

They had a chance to get Rondo and they stuck with Westbrook. Then they get angry because Westbrook didn't change for their team.. I don't know what they are doing.

tredigs
01-24-2013, 08:05 PM
whoever is in charge of OKC is ********. fire scott brooks, trade westbrook, keep harden. they do the opposite. easiest decision of all time


They had a chance to get Rondo and they stuck with Westbrook. Then they get angry because Westbrook didn't change for their team.. I don't know what they are doing.


Lim and OceanSpray's bbiq >>>>>>> Sam Presti!

ManRam
01-24-2013, 11:32 PM
No other PG besides CP3 would do better than RWB in OKC. Maybe Rose because they're so similar. Rondo? Nah. They need scoring from their PG.

Hate away. His team will keep winning and keep having the best offense in the NBA.

KD got it SOOOO GOOOODDD.

ThuglifeJ
01-24-2013, 11:50 PM
Rondo wouldn't shoot his team out of the playoffs/finals if Kevin Durant was on the floor with him.. Neither would Parker, Rose, Irving, Deron..Nash, Conley.
just saying ManRam..

Non of these point guards are as arrogant/stupid as Westbrook. And not the good arrogant, like Kobe/Jordan, because you know they weren't playing next to the leagues top scorer.

OceanSpray
01-24-2013, 11:53 PM
No other PG besides CP3 would do better than RWB in OKC. Maybe Rose because they're so similar. Rondo? Nah. They need scoring from their PG.

Hate away. His team will keep winning and keep having the best offense in the NBA.

KD got it SOOOO GOOOODDD.
I think Rondo would fare well. He could play pick and roll with Ibaka and would certainly pass the ball to Durant.

seikou8
01-25-2013, 12:53 AM
Rondo wouldn't shoot his team out of the playoffs/finals if Kevin Durant was on the floor with him.. Neither would Parker, Rose, Irving, Deron..Nash, Conley.[/B]
just saying ManRam..

Non of these point guards are as arrogant/stupid as Westbrook. And not the good arrogant, like Kobe/Jordan, because you know they weren't playing next to the leagues top scorer.



come on man they would give more on defense thats is for sure and 5 out of 6 them arent not better players than westbrook

prove it

ThuglifeJ
01-25-2013, 01:08 AM
come on man they would give more on defense thats is for sure and 5 out of 6 them arent not better players than westbrook

prove it

There not better overall players at this point but the argument was better for Durant. There's no way Westbrook is what's best for Durant.. He doesn't set up Durant, pass to Durant, or even defer to Durant unless it's a direct play call.. Every one of those point guards I mentioned would make it their duty to make sure the best scorer in the league gets in rythm

seikou8
01-25-2013, 01:23 AM
There not better overall players at this point but the argument was better for Durant. There's no way Westbrook is what's best for Durant.. He doesn't set up Durant, pass to Durant, or even defer to Durant unless it's a direct play call.. Every one of those point guards I mentioned would make it their duty to make sure the best scorer in the league gets in rythm

yes he is best scorer in nba and yes he is great and yes westbrook should shoot less but not to point where no one else cant play thier games and be agressive.most of russy assists oto kd his asssits rate is very hgh compared to last year at 40.7. sometimes kd doesnt look score enough in my eyes

Swashcuff
01-25-2013, 10:55 AM
These threads make me laugh all the time. Whenever Westy has a poor shooting/ low scoring night his team loses (no matter if he get 8-12 assists and grabs 7-10 boards while playing excellent D) he'll take the blame. Isn't it funny that when Westy doesn't score the Thunder's offense generally suffers? They have the best offense in the NBA and when Westy's game isn't on they don't look like it but for some reason he always gets the blame.

Fired-Up
01-25-2013, 11:49 AM
Sub Westbrook for Tony Parker and the Thunder immediately become the favorites to win the NBA Finals. Hell, put Parker on OKC last year and I think they beat Miami.

Swashcuff
01-25-2013, 11:58 AM
Sub Westbrook for Tony Parker and the Thunder immediately become the favorites to win the NBA Finals. Hell, put Parker on OKC last year and I think they beat Miami.

But Tony Parker attempted 7 less shots while having 6 less assists than Westbrook when they matched up against one another. Clearly your problem isn't how many shots Westy takes because you would not have made that statement. No way the Thunder beat the Heat with Parker instead of Westbrook. They needed more production from James Harden not Westy who for the most part was on point during the finals.

Fired-Up
01-25-2013, 12:07 PM
But Tony Parker attempted 7 less shots while having 6 less assists than Westbrook when they matched up against one another. Clearly your problem isn't how many shots Westy takes because you would not have made that statement. No way the Thunder beat the Heat with Parker instead of Westbrook. They needed more production from James Harden not Westy who for the most part was on point during the finals.

Tony Parker is not as ball dominant as Westbrook. Which on OKC would be a good thing. Westbrook simply has the ball far too much. Again he seems to have it in his mind that he's the star. Why? He plays point guard. I get it that nobody grows up dreaming of being a point guard. But that's what he plays. If he's not shooting he's doing something else that's dumb.

Swashcuff
01-25-2013, 12:52 PM
Tony Parker is not as ball dominant as Westbrook. ]Which on OKC would be a good thing. Westbrook simply has the ball far too much. Again he seems to have it in his mind that he's the star. Why? He plays point guard. I get it that nobody grows up dreaming of being a point guard. But that's what he plays. If he's not shooting he's doing something else that's dumb.

Oh really? Because Westbrook's dominance seems to be helping OKC and more importantly helping Kevin Durant (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/4/6/2930095/russell-westbrook-kevin-durant-oklahoma-city-thunder). His scoring (http://www.welcometoloudcity.com/2012/1/11/2699440/russell-westbrook-transition-jump-shots-key-to-scoring-success) and play making are both equally essential to his team's success and them being the best offensive team in the NBA over the past 3 seasons.

Westbrook's team over the past 3 seasons have been better offensively with him on the floor than Parker's has been with his, defensively as well. Westy has been one of the best clutch players in that span as well an almost perfect late game complement to KD.

This whole idea of you having to be a pure point guard is idiotic. Was Gus Williams a pure PG? How about Isiah? Chauncey? He took some awful shots in his day himself. He was just a much better shooter than Westy but not as good a scorer nor passer.

Westbrook's problem is his erratic play, poor decision making and poor shot selection everyone has already pointed that out in this thread but that in itself doesn't make him less of a player than Parker or less valuable to a team. Place Parker on the Thunder and he'll be more ball dominant as well, at least he should if he'd want them to be as successful as they are with Westy.

Fired-Up
01-25-2013, 01:12 PM
Westbrook doesn't need to be a pure point guard. Parker is far from a pure point guard yet he's a far better player than Westbrook. Watch Parker play. He takes a couple of dribbles. If he can't beat his man and penetrate he passes. No wasted movement. Everyone is involved and the Spurs have had the most efficient and effective offense in the league for years despite the Thunder having the best scorer in the league.

Westbrook will dribble for 10 seconds straight and totally disrupt the offense. He literally cost them the Finals last year.

Baller1
01-25-2013, 01:24 PM
Westbrook doesn't need to be a pure point guard. Parker is far from a pure point guard yet he's a far better player than Westbrook. Watch Parker play. He takes a couple of dribbles. If he can't beat his man and penetrate he passes. No wasted movement. Everyone is involved and the Spurs have had the most efficient and effective offense in the league for years despite the Thunder having the best scorer in the league.

Westbrook will dribble for 10 seconds straight and totally disrupt the offense. He literally cost them the Finals last year.

No... He didn't. Harden and Lebron cost OKC the Finals.

Fired-Up
01-25-2013, 01:39 PM
No... He didn't. Harden and Lebron cost OKC the Finals.

"I've never seen anyone play point guard worse than this in the NBA Finals"- Magic Johnson

The big point I'm trying to make is Parker would DEFINITELY be an upgrade over Westbrook. Without a shred of doubt.

Chronz
01-25-2013, 02:08 PM
No... He didn't. Harden and Lebron cost OKC the Finals.
Yea but Harden is their 3rd/4th guy, its kind of like blaming Ibaka for not performing up to par. Westbrook deserves to take his lumps too.
Harden played bad in 3 of the 4 losses vs 2 of 4 for Westbrook. Up to you who you want to blame but to me, its harder to win a game when your primary possession hog is wasting a **** load of possessions the way Westbrook did in G2+G.5 than it is when your 6th man cant give you that boost with his limited possessions. I would understand if Harden was the main guy and given a steady stream of touches but the Finals were basically Westbrooks show, he wanted the pressure of being a high usage guy and had mixed results.

I understand if Harden dissappointed his fans the most, but I dont see Westbrook as a victim, he played a role in their losses as well.

ThuglifeJ
01-25-2013, 06:25 PM
Harden deserved a lot of blame for last finals, but other then G2 and G5 let's not forget the WCF vs Dallas where this all started. Westbrook shot his team out of that series, handed it to Dallas in the 4th quarters. He never even tried to learn from those mistakes instead he did the same exact crap vs Miami..

JAZZNC
01-25-2013, 07:30 PM
Yeah, lets disregard the fact that he's also top 5 in assists and top 5 in steals in the league. One of the top rebounding PG's in the game today, and he's the PG of the top team in the NBA.

But yeah, he's just a chucker.

Where are the threads about Westbrook when he's putting up 30-12-10 triple doubles? Or when he's dropping 40 on >25 shots? They don't happen, because Westy can do no right.

This. People are just hating on the guy. I'd rather have him than anybody not named Rose, Paul, or Rondo and Rondo's really iffy.

netsgiantsyanks
01-25-2013, 07:34 PM
why is the sky blue?

Baller1
01-25-2013, 09:52 PM
Yea but Harden is their 3rd/4th guy, its kind of like blaming Ibaka for not performing up to par. Westbrook deserves to take his lumps too.
Harden played bad in 3 of the 4 losses vs 2 of 4 for Westbrook. Up to you who you want to blame but to me, its harder to win a game when your primary possession hog is wasting a **** load of possessions the way Westbrook did in G2+G.5 than it is when your 6th man cant give you that boost with his limited possessions. I would understand if Harden was the main guy and given a steady stream of touches but the Finals were basically Westbrooks show, he wanted the pressure of being a high usage guy and had mixed results.

I understand if Harden dissappointed his fans the most, but I dont see Westbrook as a victim, he played a role in their losses as well.

Definitely, I didn't mean to sound like I was giving Westy a free pass. I just meant that it's insane to single-handedly place all the blame on Westbrook, especially considering OKC doesn't sniff the Finals without him.