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View Full Version : how good is Dwight Howard in the post?



Money_23
01-23-2013, 01:45 PM
Dwight turns the ball over in the post 1/3 of the time, 1/3 he gets fouled and shoots 50% from the line, the other 1/3 he shoots and makes it 60% of the time.

roughly 0.74 pts per possession in the post.

league average is 0.85 points per possession in the post.

Best players in the post this year so far are:
Kobe/Durant - 1.12
melo - 0.97
Lopez - 0.96

feed it to dwight more. :D

justinnum1
01-23-2013, 01:52 PM
what does joel anthony average in the post? because that's what dwight looks like when you give him the ball down low.

DanG
01-23-2013, 01:55 PM
He gets stripped most of the times.

sep11ie
01-23-2013, 02:04 PM
Cooooool

oak2455
01-23-2013, 02:08 PM
The best headband in the sport

KnickaBocka.44
01-23-2013, 02:11 PM
He's not very good in the post at all. I said this in the off-season and got ripped apart by some of the posters on here.

nickdymez
01-23-2013, 02:17 PM
He's terrible in the post and I stand by my comments I made in the offseason... Healthy Bynum > Dwight. Bynum is a pretty decent defender and an above average one when he's dialed in. And his offense is MILES ahead of Dwight. Pretty much every decent big is better offensively than Dwight.

sep11ie
01-23-2013, 02:17 PM
Dwight jump so high and smiles so big.

Chronz
01-23-2013, 02:25 PM
He's terrible in the post and I stand by my comments I made in the offseason... Healthy Bynum > Dwight. Bynum is a pretty decent defender and an above average one when he's dialed in. And his offense is MILES ahead of Dwight. Pretty much every decent big is better offensively than Dwight.

What about Healthy Dwight?

nickdymez
01-23-2013, 02:27 PM
What about Healthy Dwight?

What about a healthy Dwight?

justinnum1
01-23-2013, 02:28 PM
What about Healthy Dwight?

will we ever see a healthy dwight?

nickdymez
01-23-2013, 02:31 PM
will we ever see a healthy dwight?

I've seen a healthy Dwight and Bynum is still better than him offensively.

Matter.
01-23-2013, 02:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NmzOG7r_Mg

What Happened Dwight?

Chronz
01-23-2013, 03:20 PM
What about a healthy Dwight?

Will he ever come back and where would you rank the man who scored the most off post plays than anyone else in the NBA the last 3 years before this one?


will we ever see a healthy dwight?
Give him a year, hes dealing with some nerve damage and it supposedly takes a year to get the feeling back. Imagine trying to feel defenders with a numbing sensation or holding onto the rock. I dont know where it effects him but Im not seeing the same springboard athlete who can overpower anyone physically. Id rather believe this is a result of his recovery than a sign of decline.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-23-2013, 03:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NmzOG7r_Mg

What Happened Dwight?

lol.. that dude flunked that class.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-23-2013, 03:26 PM
he def has moves, but his arsenal is very limited. and he knows moves, just look at the training video by hakeem and so on, he just doesnt know hwo to put it all together for some reason.

whatever the problem is, he has never been an offensive juggernaut. and i told countless laker fans. when kobe is having a terrible game, who will u go to?
and they said nash. i guess not.

bynum helped the lakers offensively a lot.

granted the lakers issue is mostly team defense and consistent effort by the personnel, but diversity on offense would go a long ways.

Chronz
01-23-2013, 03:26 PM
lol.. that dude flunked that class.
Based on what?

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-23-2013, 03:30 PM
Based on what?

just him utilizing what he has learned into his game consistently.
he was taught by hakeem like 3 seasons ago..

everyone improved a lot after being taught by hakeem except howard. not saying its his fault, just saying he needs to figure out how to use them correctly, where to ask for the ball, etc etc.

Chronz
01-23-2013, 03:34 PM
just him utilizing what he has learned into his game consistently.
he was taught by hakeem like 3 seasons ago..

everyone improved a lot after being taught by hakeem except howard. not saying its his fault, just saying he needs to figure out how to use them correctly, where to ask for the ball, etc etc.
I dont buy it. He was a better post up player immediately after training with Hakeem and hes improved his passing out of the post over the years. Only its gone to **** the last 1.5 years with his athleticism waning. Hes been absolutely dreadful this year, kind of reminds me of Shaq right before he got traded to Phx. But Dwight has the potential for recovery.

Emeka Okafor improved but I wouldn't say moreso than Dwight, hows Tyson Chandler and Amare doing with those post moves?

shep33
01-23-2013, 03:36 PM
I read somewhere that his turnover % in the post is 20% or something. I could be wrong.

Matrix3132
01-23-2013, 03:39 PM
he def has moves, but his arsenal is very limited. and he knows moves, just look at the training video by hakeem and so on, he just doesnt know hwo to put it all together for some reason.

whatever the problem is, he has never been an offensive juggernaut. and i told countless laker fans. when kobe is having a terrible game, who will u go to?
and they said nash. i guess not.

bynum helped the lakers offensively a lot.

granted the lakers issue is mostly team defense and consistent effort by the personnel, but diversity on offense would go a long ways.

Am I the only one who was shocked how "basic" that video was?

Who could ever give dwight a max deal having seen that?

I know big men (especially dwight) aren't very skilled (especially compared to someone like hakeem), but those moves he was working on look like the same moves junior high kids have already mastered and I don't mean any disrespect, honestly, I'm just saying that having never seen an nba practice/workout session with audio, I was pretty shocked at how basic it all was.

tredigs
01-23-2013, 03:41 PM
Dwight turns the ball over in the post 1/3 of the time, 1/3 he gets fouled and shoots 50% from the line, the other 1/3 he shoots and makes it 60% of the time.

roughly 0.74 pts per possession in the post.

league average is 0.85 points per possession in the post.

Best players in the post this year so far are:
Kobe/Durant - 1.12
melo - 0.97
Lopez - 0.96

feed it to dwight more. :D

Link? I'd like to see volume.

ManRam
01-23-2013, 03:48 PM
Dwight made huge strides after the 2009-2010 season in regards to his post game. Before then he was beyond primitive. He improved again slightly after the 2010-2011 season, but not as much. For that two year stretch he was a guy who you could force feed the ball to and it would in turn become an asset.

Healthy Dwight was a weapon. He was far from "terrible". Was he Hakeem? No. Was he Shaq? Nah. Was he better than just about every other center in the NBA offensively? Yeah.

Clearly he isn't healthy. He is turning it over way more than he has in recent years, back to his early days. That's always been a problem, and it isn't going away. But even with the TOs, and even with the poor FT%, in the right system and with an offense that can get him actively involved and get him decent looks, he'll beast.

Tmath
01-23-2013, 04:01 PM
He relies too much on strength.

He needs to learn how to keep the ball high so he doesn't get stripped so often.

Stinkyoutsider
01-23-2013, 04:05 PM
I'm not sure how good Howard is in the post but what I think we're dealing with is a guy who does damage in the post with his athleticism and not technique. I think Howard has a good drop step because he's so much stronger than most players who guard him. He's been trying to develop a solid hook shot to depend on and a shooting touch but I think he's got much more work to do before he can call for the ball every time down the floor.

So, I think he's average offensively down there. If he was a better passer from the post and limited his turnovers some, he would be more dangerous. Teams can't take a chance on him scoring so he would be doubled and he would find the open man and complete the pass more often than turning the ball over...

Chronz
01-23-2013, 04:17 PM
Dwight made huge strides after the 2009-2010 season in regards to his post game. Before then he was beyond primitive. He improved again slightly after the 2010-2011 season, but not as much. For that two year stretch he was a guy who you could force feed the ball to and it would in turn become an asset.

Healthy Dwight was a weapon. He was far from "terrible". Was he Hakeem? No. Was he Shaq? Nah. Was he better than just about every other center in the NBA offensively? Yeah.

Clearly he isn't healthy. He is turning it over way more than he has in recent years, back to his early days. That's always been a problem, and it isn't going away. But even with the TOs, and even with the poor FT%, in the right system and with an offense that can get him actively involved and get him decent looks, he'll beast.
I cant help but feel like people are using his play this year to reaffirm long held beliefs that simply weren't true in the years prior to this one. LA is prolly the worst place to play if your not close to what you once were, because everyone watches the Lakers and your poor play will stand out if the team is losing. If Dwight were playing this poorly while still in Orlando, everyone would simply be chalking it up to injury woes, but in LA everything is magnified.

Chronz
01-23-2013, 04:18 PM
Lakers should hire Al Gentry. He can run and post

Sly Guy
01-23-2013, 04:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NmzOG7r_Mg

What Happened Dwight?

he looks terrible in that video. Granted, it might be the first few times he's doing the moves, but he just looks so awkward. Also, in a lot of dwight's spins, he doesn't get nearly enough separation. What's the point in spinning if all you do is move in the exact same spot?

Sly Guy
01-23-2013, 04:35 PM
Am I the only one who was shocked how "basic" that video was?

Who could ever give dwight a max deal having seen that?

I know big men (especially dwight) aren't very skilled (especially compared to someone like hakeem), but those moves he was working on look like the same moves junior high kids have already mastered and I don't mean any disrespect, honestly, I'm just saying that having never seen an nba practice/workout session with audio, I was pretty shocked at how basic it all was.

agreed. class 1 of big man academy is a drop step. I don't know what's worse, the fact it's so basic, or the fact dwight looks awkward performing them.

nickdymez
01-23-2013, 04:46 PM
Will he ever come back and where would you rank the man who scored the most off post plays than anyone else in the NBA the last 3 years before this one?


Give him a year, hes dealing with some nerve damage and it supposedly takes a year to get the feeling back. Imagine trying to feel defenders with a numbing sensation or holding onto the rock. I dont know where it effects him but Im not seeing the same springboard athlete who can overpower anyone physically. Id rather believe this is a result of his recovery than a sign of decline.

Yea, but Dwight is the only center that was a featured player in the offense. Number option i suppose you can say. So I would imagine that he would score the most in the post. I dont know if that number accounts just for position or are they taking into account put back dunks?

Chronz
01-23-2013, 04:58 PM
Yea, but Dwight is the only center that was a featured player in the offense. Number option i suppose you can say. So I would imagine that he would score the most in the post. I dont know if that number accounts just for position or are they taking into account put back dunks?
I take it you dont expect Dwight to ever recover since you didn't answer the question.

And you cant be a number 1 option unless you can go to work. Previous versions of Dwight were all better than this.

FYI put-back dunks fall under offensive rebounds. This is strictly getting the ball on the blocks and putting it in the hole.

amos1er
01-23-2013, 05:10 PM
Dwight turns the ball over in the post 1/3 of the time, 1/3 he gets fouled and shoots 50% from the line, the other 1/3 he shoots and makes it 60% of the time.

roughly 0.74 pts per possession in the post.

league average is 0.85 points per possession in the post.

Best players in the post this year so far are:
Kobe/Durant - 1.12
melo - 0.97
Lopez - 0.96

feed it to dwight more. :D

I think the title of this thread should be how bad is he in the post, then my answer would be pretty bad.

I have even proposed a trade for him. http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bdeanln

I don't think that the Lakers could get better value than that other than Love or Dirk, which just aren't realistic options IMO.

Howard's stats are the biggest mirage in the NBA...he is not a game changer at all. Yes, his stats are even a bigger farce than Lebron's are.

tredigs
01-23-2013, 05:17 PM
I think the title of this thread should be how bad is he in the post, then my answer would be pretty bad.

I have even proposed a trade for him. http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bdeanln

I don't think that the Lakers could get better value than that other than Love or Dirk, which just aren't realistic options IMO.

Howard's stats are the biggest mirage in the NBA...he is not a game changer at all. Yes, his stats are even a bigger farce than Lebron's are.

Lakers Howard is not much of a game changer. He used to be a MASSIVE game changer. But then he destroyed his back and most people saw this coming.

Still, he's clearly the best and most impactful defender on their team (although isn't what he used to be). But his offense? Yeah, terrible.


And still no link for these stats? OP went ghost? Just trolling?

nickdymez
01-23-2013, 05:21 PM
I take it you dont expect Dwight to ever recover since you didn't answer the question.

And you cant be a number 1 option unless you can go to work. Previous versions of Dwight were all better than this.

FYI put-back dunks fall under offensive rebounds. This is strictly getting the ball on the blocks and putting it in the hole.

lol, I hate ****in talking to you.. I thought your question was rhetorical. Ok, ummm, I dont know if Dwight will ever recover. I think his injury is being exaggerated immensely. I also feel that his injury should not affect shooting freethrows and getting stripped. Maybe his explosiveness should take a hit, but injured or not you should be able to protect the ball. If he is that injured where he can't hold on to the ball without getting stripped all the damn time, he needs to sit. As for your stat, I still stand by my thoughts that he was the only Big in the league that was the number 1 option on his team scoring wise that plays back to the basket, so he should have been number 1. Also, previous versions of Dwight never had to play with the personel that the Lakers have.

ManRam
01-23-2013, 05:23 PM
I cant help but feel like people are using his play this year to reaffirm long held beliefs that simply weren't true in the years prior to this one. LA is prolly the worst place to play if your not close to what you once were, because everyone watches the Lakers and your poor play will stand out if the team is losing. If Dwight were playing this poorly while still in Orlando, everyone would simply be chalking it up to injury woes, but in LA everything is magnified.

I agree 100%.

I've been very hard on Dwight in the past. A few people here have even accused me of not being a Magic fan because of my opinions of Dwight (D Roses Bulls, and MagicBucsSox for example). My criticisms of him have eased in recent years - up until Dwightmare obviously - because he started to actually develop that offensive game that I was crying for. Again, he's not Hakeem or Shaq, or anything like that, but he was the most dominant center offensively for a few years there.

It's weird that I find myself defending Dwight more now than I ever really had. It's not hard to do when so many people are overreacting about half a year of bad play (to his standards, and to a lesser extent the standards of other centers). This is not the best Dwight has to offer. Acting like everything he's done in the past means nothing because of his play this year is silly. He's not overrated, or at least he never was. He's just not playing well now.

Not to mention the defense goes from about 25-28th worst in the league without him playing to about 15th with him in there. League average isn't good, but his defensive contributions are necessary. He's not even his normal defensive self, but look at the impact he makes anyways.


I'm like a Dwight apologist now...it's weird...

Bottom line: anyone who thinks version of Dwight is really who he always has actually been is just wrong.

I hope the Lakers and Dwight break up...that would be bad for both parties in the long run.

Chronz
01-23-2013, 05:24 PM
Howard's stats are the biggest mirage in the NBA...he is not a game changer at all. Yes, his stats are even a bigger farce than Lebron's are.
Thats not really saying anything considering how valuable Bron is. Try something thats actually insulting.

Chronz
01-23-2013, 05:26 PM
And still no link for these stats? OP went ghost? Just trolling?

I made a thread on Dwight's inefficiency as a Go-To guy earlier in the year, doesn't seem much has changed. What exactly are you doubting him on? His go to efficiency or league averages?

Chronz
01-23-2013, 05:30 PM
lol, I hate ****in talking to you.. I thought your question was rhetorical. Ok, ummm, I dont know if Dwight will ever recover. I think his injury is being exaggerated immensely. I also feel that his injury should not affect shooting freethrows and getting stripped. Maybe his explosiveness should take a hit, but injured or not you should be able to protect the ball. If he is that injured where he can't hold on to the ball without getting stripped all the damn time, he needs to sit.
Im seeing a staggering difference in his agility, he can still jump but his 2nd jump isnt there anymore and I think thats why hes bringing the ball down more often now, he feels he has to gather himself to go back up when in the past he would simply keep the ball up and jam it almost instantaneously. And from what Ive heard, at times Dwight feels numbness in certain parts of his body. I find it hard to believe hes exaggerating that when you consider how different he looks from years past.


As for your stat, I still stand by my thoughts that he was the only Big in the league that was the number 1 option on his team scoring wise that plays back to the basket, so he should have been number 1.
Shouldn't the number 1 option have it harder to score than a secondary option?


Also, previous versions of Dwight never had to play with the personel that the Lakers have.

True, but I was under the impression that having Kobe would be a benefit to a guy like Dwight. Right now its looking like Bynum was closer to being a franchise player than Dwight is.

Guppyfighter
01-23-2013, 05:34 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBUMEVbCIAEhbtW.png:large

Dwight is in the 40th percentile on the low block.

nickdymez
01-23-2013, 05:40 PM
Im seeing a staggering difference in his agility, he can still jump but his 2nd jump isnt there anymore and I think thats why hes bringing the ball down more often now, he feels he has to gather himself to go back up when in the past he would simply keep the ball up and jam it almost instantaneously. And from what Ive heard, at times Dwight feels numbness in certain parts of his body. I find it hard to believe hes exaggerating that when you consider how different he looks from years past.


Shouldn't the number 1 option have it harder to score than a secondary option?


True, but I was under the impression that having Kobe would be a benefit to a guy like Dwight. Right now its looking like Bynum was closer to being a franchise player than Dwight is.

Agree with everything here. As for him being the number 1 option, yes and no. On the Magic you had to account for the shooters they had on perimeter. So its still a yes and no answer from me. The year they went to the finals they had nothing but shooters out there, made his job a whole lot easier on the offensive end. This Lakers team isnt built like that. Nash acts like he forgot how to shoot and Kobe seems like he wants to take the hardest shot possible. No one else can really shoot like that except Meeks, and Mike dont want to play him anymore for some reason.

So I get it, there is an adjustment period, but it just doesnt look promising. Also, if everyone knows he has a bad back, why is he showing off the stat sheet?

tredigs
01-23-2013, 05:47 PM
I made a thread on Dwight's inefficiency as a Go-To guy earlier in the year, doesn't seem much has changed. What exactly are you doubting him on? His go to efficiency or league averages?

I just want to see the link to check out volumes and other players. I think I have the site saved on knee of my computers but I'm not home. Don't doubt it a bit. Although most everyone here would not believe Kd has the best (or at least most efficient) post game.

Hawkeye15
01-23-2013, 05:50 PM
I mean, Dwight isn't nearly the same player we saw pre-injury, when he was arguably the most efficient post player in the league. If he gets back to the player he was, or close to it, he is still the best center in the game. Kinda weird watching him not athletically dominate every matchup, I can't help but think its the lingering back which may take all year to recover, who knows.

LoveMeOrHateMe
01-23-2013, 05:57 PM
Dwight to me seemed like he had a better offensive game in Orlando, with the lakers he gets stripped so much it's not even funny and when he does get a shot off its ugly

nickdymez
01-23-2013, 05:57 PM
I mean, Dwight isn't nearly the same player we saw pre-injury, when he was arguably the most efficient post player in the league. If he gets back to the player he was, or close to it, he is still the best center in the game. Kinda weird watching him not athletically dominate every matchup, I can't help but think its the lingering back which may take all year to recover, who knows.

I dont get how playing with the bad back helps him at all. He should be resting and getting healthy. I just feel excuses are being made as to why he will leave or still command a max deal (Which im certain he will get). But why risk it is my question.

KingPosey
01-23-2013, 06:03 PM
will we ever see a healthy dwight?

Will we ever see a healthy Bynum is the real question.

Hawkeye15
01-23-2013, 06:07 PM
I dont get how playing with the bad back helps him at all. He should be resting and getting healthy. I just feel excuses are being made as to why he will leave or still command a max deal (Which im certain he will get). But why risk it is my question.

I don't think he should have rushed back at all man, he wasn't even supposed to play until just a few weeks ago. Perhaps it was the pressure he felt in LA, I don't know. But he had some nerve damage, and that can take a while to heal. You are right, he is getting a max deal regardless, why risk it?

bucketss
01-23-2013, 06:10 PM
healthy dwight would get doube tripled teamed in the post but this dwight i don't think is very good down there.

sep11ie
01-23-2013, 06:12 PM
Will we ever see a healthy Bynum is the real question.

This healthy Bynum you speak of, is it real or symbolic?

blahblahyoutoo
01-23-2013, 06:13 PM
poor to very poor.

bucketss
01-23-2013, 06:13 PM
I think the title of this thread should be how bad is he in the post, then my answer would be pretty bad.

I have even proposed a trade for him. http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bdeanln

I don't think that the Lakers could get better value than that other than Love or Dirk, which just aren't realistic options IMO.

Howard's stats are the biggest mirage in the NBA...he is not a game changer at all. Yes, his stats are even a bigger farce than Lebron's are.

please do that trade,this would be the start of the demise of the Fakers organization.

blahblahyoutoo
01-23-2013, 06:14 PM
Dwight turns the ball over in the post 1/3 of the time, 1/3 he gets fouled and shoots 50% from the line, the other 1/3 he shoots and makes it 60% of the time.

roughly 0.74 pts per possession in the post.

league average is 0.85 points per possession in the post.

Best players in the post this year so far are:
Kobe/Durant - 1.12
melo - 0.97
Lopez - 0.96

feed it to dwight more. :D

why would you feed it to dwight more if you have a guy on the same team that's more efficient in the post?

blahblahyoutoo
01-23-2013, 06:18 PM
Dwight made huge strides after the 2009-2010 season in regards to his post game. Before then he was beyond primitive. He improved again slightly after the 2010-2011 season, but not as much. For that two year stretch he was a guy who you could force feed the ball to and it would in turn become an asset.

Healthy Dwight was a weapon. He was far from "terrible". Was he Hakeem? No. Was he Shaq? Nah. Was he better than just about every other center in the NBA offensively? Yeah.

Clearly he isn't healthy. He is turning it over way more than he has in recent years, back to his early days. That's always been a problem, and it isn't going away. But even with the TOs, and even with the poor FT%, in the right system and with an offense that can get him actively involved and get him decent looks, he'll beast.

better offensive centers than dwight
bynum
lopez
both gasols
horford

smiddy012
01-23-2013, 07:14 PM
better offensive centers than dwight
bynum
lopez
both gasols
horford

For the 12-13 season. Prior to this season he was offensively productive as hell. The previous 5 seasons he's averaged 20.5 pts at 59%. Who else has done that?


I get that DH is a grown child, but people are acting like he sucks just because he's now playing in a system that doesn't fit him. In Orlando everything was built around him, in LA he's in a run'n'gun offense where Kobe takes all the shots. He hasn't been given the chance to develop any rhythm. Then add the injury onto that...

Criticize him for making a stupid decision, sure, criticize him for being stupid, sure, but he's still the best center in the league when he's in the right system and 100% healthy.

Money_23
01-23-2013, 07:40 PM
why would you feed it to dwight more if you have a guy on the same team that's more efficient in the post?

that's the joke.... isn't everyone saying Dwight isn't getting enough touches?

Hawkeye15
01-23-2013, 08:03 PM
better offensive centers than dwight
bynum
lopez
both gasols
horford

Bynum I am not sure, the more he was fed in the post, the less effective he got. I still like him better as the offensive glass machine who played defense.

Lopez is for sure more skilled, but when we bring up efficiency, Dwight is right there, especially when you factor in the spacing he provides his team.

Pau, you have an argument, when used correctly, though its been 2 years since that happened. Marc, not yet.

Horford, no way.

And Dwight is better than all of them defensively. If Dwight is healthy, he is the best center in the game, by a nice margin.

LAKERMANIA
01-23-2013, 09:24 PM
Bynum averaged last year less than what Dwight is averaging this year and Dwight has a bad back and is in a bad system... I don't agree even as a Lakers fan and Bynum fan that Bynum was better offensively.

Bynum has more post moves, but Dwight plays with better intensity, which leads to more scoring opportunities for him..

blahblahyoutoo
01-24-2013, 12:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NmzOG7r_Mg

What Happened Dwight?

hakeem just looks so much more smooth and fluid.

amos1er
01-24-2013, 12:27 AM
please do that trade,this would be the start of the demise of the Fakers organization.

The start???

Where have you been???

It's been started. :(

Chronz
01-24-2013, 12:34 AM
Bynum averaged last year less than what Dwight is averaging this year and Dwight has a bad back and is in a bad system... I don't agree even as a Lakers fan and Bynum fan that Bynum was better offensively.
Except thats not true


Bynum has more post moves, but Dwight plays with better intensity, which leads to more scoring opportunities for him..


What games have you been watching?