PDA

View Full Version : Who's got the better future: Pistons OR Raptors?



Mikeleafs
01-21-2013, 11:28 AM
Simple Question: Which team has the brighter future and why?

Pistons or Raptors

Pistons:
Munroe
Drummond
Singler
Jerebko
Knight

Raps:
Valancuinas
Ed Davis
Ross
DeRozan
Lowry

koreancabbage
01-21-2013, 11:43 AM
random teams to compare but i'll play along

right now, the Pistons has the best player that is producing in Greg Monroe.

however, I believe Lowry is very underrated right now, JVal has got potential, and Ross might be something special. Drummond is a developing big man, so he's got as much potential as JVal right now.

but Singler and Jerebko are just role players at best. give Singler props for having a decent year.

I'll go with the Raps at the moment but could sway to the Pistons if Drummond develops top 5 pick skill level and production.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 12:03 PM
I think the Raptors have better quantity of players and assets but Pistons have players that could potentially be better.

I think they are both doing pretty well in their rebuilds, I would throw the Cavs in there as well.

Manimal
01-21-2013, 12:03 PM
Yeah I don't think people have seen enough Drummond this year. The guy is a beast. Pistons simply because of Drummond.

RipCity32
01-21-2013, 12:03 PM
Pistons because we have Drummond and Monroe.

bigsams50
01-21-2013, 12:05 PM
Pistons. Drummond looks like a beast, and Monroe is already coming along very good. Knights development will be key though

bucketss
01-21-2013, 12:06 PM
drummond and munore are going to be a beastly front court plus they have a draft pick this year unlike toronto, i don't think highly of knight and the rest though.

LAKobeBryant
01-21-2013, 12:07 PM
Raptors because their fans. No one goes to Detroit games no more, it declines more and more every year

heyman321
01-21-2013, 12:08 PM
Toronto bceause of Terrence Ross, Lowry, and Valanchoonoas.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 12:11 PM
Pistons are likely going to have have to pay Monroe the MAX soon, or close to it, and that will limit them a little bit.

RipCity32
01-21-2013, 12:11 PM
Yeah I don't think people have seen enough Drummond this year. The guy is a beast. Pistons simply because of Drummond.

Pretty much this,Pistons have been crappy for a while now and nobody has gotten a chance to really to see this kid even when I watch NBA TV they never show all of his highlight dunks or blocks.

hugepatsfan
01-21-2013, 12:13 PM
Raptors because they have Bargnani.

Mikeleafs
01-21-2013, 12:17 PM
random teams to compare but i'll play along

right now, the Pistons has the best player that is producing in Greg Monroe.

however, I believe Lowry is very underrated right now, JVal has got potential, and Ross might be something special. Drummond is a developing big man, so he's got as much potential as JVal right now.

but Singler and Jerebko are just role players at best. give Singler props for having a decent year.

I'll go with the Raps at the moment but could sway to the Pistons if Drummond develops top 5 pick skill level and production.


The reason why chose these 2 teams is because they're very similar in terms of where they are in their rebuild. And they're at the same position in the standings.

Plus, the Raps just beat the Lakers and the Pistons just beat the Celtics... Changing of the guard maybe ;)

Tmath
01-21-2013, 12:18 PM
Drummond is a good rebounder & shot blocker but his offense is still very raw, he can't create a shot for himself and when he tries to, he looks really awkward. Basically he is a garbage man on offense.

Gators123
01-21-2013, 12:22 PM
Pistons because of this guy-


Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2012-13 19 DET NBA C 40 792 22.8 .591 .610 16.4 25.7 21.0 4.0 2.3 6.5 11.3 16.4 119 97 1.8 1.6 3.4 .209

A Drummond and Monroe frontcourt has amazing potential.

RipCity32
01-21-2013, 12:24 PM
Drummond is a good rebounder & shot blocker but his offense is still very raw, he can't create a shot for himself and when he tries to, he looks really awkward. Basically he is a garbage man on offense.

He is bad offensivley except he is a huge threat near the rim on putbacks and lobs because right now he can get up higher than just about anyone in the league.

Gators123
01-21-2013, 12:27 PM
Drummond is a good rebounder & shot blocker but his offense is still very raw, he can't create a shot for himself and when he tries to, he looks really awkward. Basically he is a garbage man on offense.

He doesn't need to create for himself. You can't stop this!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czs9XY6FRRw

;)

Tmath
01-21-2013, 12:31 PM
He is bad offensivley except he is a huge threat near the rim on putbacks and lobs because right now he can get up higher than just about anyone in the league.

He's a physical specimen, there is no denying that.

The thing that I worry about guys that big & that athletic are injury problems.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 12:31 PM
He doesn't need to create for himself. You can't stop this!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czs9XY6FRRw

;)

Yes you can, Celtics just did a terrible job at doing so. Celtics are also very undersized.

heyman321
01-21-2013, 12:33 PM
He doesn't need to create for himself. You can't stop this!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czs9XY6FRRw

;)

That's cause the Celtics have no one over 6'10 except Garnett and he's 50 and like 60 pounds lighter than Drummond. Why does Drummond not go off getting 6 alley oops a game against Memphis, the Clippers, San Antonio, etc? Cause they actually have big men to defend the paint.

Sly Guy
01-21-2013, 12:34 PM
this is a really good question....Very interested in reading more responses. I haven't seen enough of Detroit to form an opinion. All I know is that the Pistons own the Raps when they go head o head because of the size of their front court. But they won't have that mismatch every game.

Gators123
01-21-2013, 12:34 PM
Yes you can, Celtics just did a terrible job at doing so. Celtics are also very undersized.

I was semi-kidding, but hes almost 7'0, 300 pounds, with a 7'6 wingspan and can jump through the roof. Its very hard to stop him.

nycericanguy
01-21-2013, 12:34 PM
Pistons easily.

Monroe & Drummond are both better prospects than anyone TOR has. TOR also has some bad contracts like Fields, Amir & Bargs, and they also have alot of money tied up in Derozan, who is good, but not really a guy to build around.

Not to mention TOR traded their draft pick and Lowry right now hasn't proven to be a winning player and has even lost his starting job to Calderon. TOR is in a lose lose situation with Lowry, even if he plays well he's already not happy coming off the bench and could bolt in a year.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 12:36 PM
this is a really good question....Very interested in reading more responses. I haven't seen enough of Detroit to form an opinion. All I know is that the Pistons own the Raps when they go head o head because of the size of their front court. But they won't have that mismatch every game.

They are actually 1-1, 2-2 if you include preseason. Not sure how the Pistons own us?

Vinylman
01-21-2013, 12:44 PM
why would anyone be excited about toronto... you basically won't have any cap room next year since DeRozan signed and lose Calderon... who are you gonna get in the draft or FA?

Anyway, I guess we are suppose to pick one so it is easily Detroit

Drummond has the most upside of any player on either team

#Shumpert Up
01-21-2013, 12:49 PM
pistons easily. monroe is already shaping up to be one of the better power forwards in the game and drummond...wow dont get me started on drummond, on top of being a physical beast he has gaudy statistical numbers. 7 7 and 2 in 20 minutes? are u kidding me? this kid has put up multiple double doubles in 20 minutes or less, i dont know many players that can do that. his per 36 is ridiculous. and this is with his very limited offensive toolset. i'm a fan of these pistons (y)

Gators123
01-21-2013, 12:51 PM
That's cause the Celtics have no one over 6'10 except Garnett and he's 50 and like 60 pounds lighter than Drummond. Why does Drummond not go off getting 6 alley oops a game against Memphis, the Clippers, San Antonio, etc? Cause they actually have big men to defend the paint.

Once again, I was semi-kidding. He obviously doesn't get 6 oops per game, but there's a reason hes 6th in the NBA in total dunks even though he barley averages 20 MPG.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 12:52 PM
why would anyone be excited about toronto... you basically won't have any cap room next year since DeRozan signed and lose Calderon... who are you gonna get in the draft or FA?

Anyway, I guess we are suppose to pick one so it is easily Detroit

Drummond has the most upside of any player on either team

The development of our young players will be key.

Terrence Ross is one of the best SG prospects, Valanciunas is one of the bect C prospects, Ed Davis has shown tremendous growth this year with the absence of Bargnani, and we still have Derozan. Fields has been playing much better since coming back from injury almost getting a double double every game and playing solid D. Amir is one of the best backup bigs in the game imo.

We also have trade chips in Jose & Bargnani although I'm not that optimistic in what we will get in return. We still have the amnesty clause to.

They have some bright spots.

Detroit has Drummond & Monroe, but outside of that, nothing really excites me.

Mikeleafs
01-21-2013, 12:53 PM
I didn't expect to see such a big turnout in favour of the Pistons... I think the Raps have a better starting 5 but the potential with Muroe and Drummond exceeds Ros and Val (at this point in time)...

Gators123
01-21-2013, 12:55 PM
Speaking of Valanciunas, when is he supposed to come back from his injury?

champion23
01-21-2013, 12:56 PM
That's cause the Celtics have no one over 6'10 except Garnett and he's 50 and like 60 pounds lighter than Drummond. Why does Drummond not go off getting 6 alley oops a game against Memphis, the Clippers, San Antonio, etc? Cause they actually have big men to defend the paint.

Well obviously he's not going to get 5 dunks in a game every night. I think that's the first time he's done that this year. Even when they play Boston next time I doubt he has 5 dunks.. But to say he won't get a few against any of them other teams is rediculous. The last two months against every team the Pistons have played he has to be averaging a couple dunks a game. Him and Bynum run the pick and roll so well lately it's tough to stop on a consistent basis. One of Drummond's best games was against OKC and he had multiple dunks and they have great length. He will dunk on every team in the NBA

JasonJohnHorn
01-21-2013, 12:56 PM
With two young bigs in Drummond and Monroe, I gotta believe the Pistons have a bright future so long as they can keep hold of both of them.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 12:57 PM
Speaking of Valanciunas, when is he supposed to come back from his injury?

Probably another week, 2 at the max.

He's been working on his left hand for a while since he injured his right, so if there is any silver lining, its the development of his left hand.

Bargnani is also due back around the same time. Not too excited about that...

Deception
01-21-2013, 01:08 PM
Pistons easily, we shed most our bad contracts this year and the rest next year. Depending on how we spend that money will be crucial.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 01:12 PM
Pistons easily, we shed most our bad contracts this year and the rest next year. Depending on how we spend that money will be crucial.

The next crop of free agents is weak at best. Probably not a good year to be spending money.

deaner
01-21-2013, 01:13 PM
The young talent is comparable. For me the difference is in the foundation of the current franchises. If you evaluate the ownership, cities, fan's disposable income, attendance, market, etc I think the raptors will clearly have the better future. I know the raptor fans don't hate any player equally to a Austin D or Charlie V.

The big disadvantage for Toronto is going through customs with any travel.

Sly Guy
01-21-2013, 01:13 PM
They are actually 1-1, 2-2 if you include preseason. Not sure how the Pistons own us?

whoa, where was I for our win? All i remember seeing was us getting beaten up badly on the inside the last Pistons-Raps game i saw.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 01:18 PM
whoa, where was I for our win? All i remember seeing was us getting beaten up badly on the inside the last Pistons-Raps game i saw.

They beat us on the first matchup, we should of won that game too. Drummond had the buzzer beater to win the game. Lets just say the refs weren't kind to us that game...

Deception
01-21-2013, 01:19 PM
The next crop of free agents is weak at best. Probably not a good year to be spending money.

I'll take OJ Mayo as a free agent.
Knight
Singler
Mayo
Monroe
Drummond

I'll take it.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 01:20 PM
I'll take OJ Mayo as a free agent.
Knight
Singler
Mayo
Monroe
Drummond

I'll take it.

So your relying on one player to sign with your team? good luck with that.

Deception
01-21-2013, 01:27 PM
So your relying on one player to sign with your team? good luck with that.

You guys got the best player of the 2012 free agent class, Landry Fields and signed him for a **** ton so I don't think it's impossible for us :D

Tmath
01-21-2013, 01:32 PM
You guys got the best player of the 2012 free agent class, Landry Fields and signed him for a **** ton so I don't think it's impossible for us :D

Its not that bad of a contract, he gets paid 6.5 mill per for the next 2 & a half years. If he keeps playing solid D & keeps getting double doubles or close to it, like he has been, I'll take that all day.


Also, Raptors have Quincy Acy, him alone should give us the clear advantage. :p

Deception
01-21-2013, 01:37 PM
Its not that bad of a contract, he gets paid 6.5 mill per for the next 2 & a half years. If he keeps playing solid D & keeps getting double doubles or close to it, like he has been, I'll take that all day.

Also, Raptors have Quincy Acy, him alone should give us the clear advantage. :p

Pistons have Charlie V lol
/thread

Raps18-19 Champ
01-21-2013, 01:38 PM
Pistons. Drummond is a future superstar and Monroe is an all star. Knight can be a 20 PPG scorer too.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 01:39 PM
Pistons have Charlie V lol
/thread

Acy is actually a good player, CV is garbage lol.

And old man Prince's contract is even worse than Fields.

Gators123
01-21-2013, 01:46 PM
Acy is actually a good player, CV is garbage lol.

And old man Prince's contract is even worse than Fields.

No. Prince makes a little more money but is easily outplaying fields.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=princta01&y1=2013&p2=fieldla01&y2=2013

BALLER R
01-21-2013, 01:50 PM
My bias says Toronto. But honestly I think their about the same. It could go either way I'm not gonna say easily Piston or easily the Raptors because that isn't true.

rocket
01-21-2013, 01:51 PM
Munroe

heyman321
01-21-2013, 01:54 PM
Munroe

Fields.

rocket
01-21-2013, 02:01 PM
When Knight gets moved to SG (he's not a damn pg) Pistons will have a sick future.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 02:04 PM
No. Prince makes a little more money but is easily outplaying fields.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=princta01&y1=2013&p2=fieldla01&y2=2013

The sample size isn't close, also Fields was injured at the beginning of the season.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 02:05 PM
When Knight gets moved to SG (he's not a damn pg) Pistons will have a sick future.

Knight is too small for SG, how is he going to guard anyone? he will get posted up all day.

xxplayerxx23
01-21-2013, 02:07 PM
Pistons Drummond is going to be a superstar

albertajaysfan
01-21-2013, 02:08 PM
Tough call. As of this moment I am leaning towards Detroit though because of their front court potential. However they need serious help in the backcourt. Knight is nowhere near enough. A real point guard completely changes things there.

Toronto has some nice pieces but history has me rather skeptical with what the FO can accomplish going forward. I would be happy to be proven wrong obviously as a Raps fan.

sep11ie
01-21-2013, 02:11 PM
If Jurassic Park taught me anything it was that there is not much of a future for raptors.

TheNumber37
01-21-2013, 02:11 PM
Pistons. Better front court future, better ownership and more importantly, they don't play in Canada.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 02:19 PM
Pistons. Better front court future, better ownership and more importantly, they don't play in Canada.

Raptors have a better back court & solid front court, new ownership and more importantly, they don't play in Detroit...

rocket
01-21-2013, 02:28 PM
Raptors have a better back court & solid front court, new ownership and more importantly, they don't play in Detroit...

Pretty sure we play in Auburn Hills :shrug:

Gators123
01-21-2013, 02:37 PM
Yeah Auburn Hills is like 30 miles away from Detroit lol

Tmath
01-21-2013, 02:40 PM
Yeah Auburn Hills is like 30 miles away from Detroit lol

Might be time for a name change then...

Raps18-19 Champ
01-21-2013, 02:44 PM
Drummond Hills sounds better.

Tony_Starks
01-21-2013, 05:05 PM
The team that didn't draft Darko.....

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-21-2013, 05:21 PM
pistons!

heyman321
01-21-2013, 05:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM&t=0m40s

jon32
01-21-2013, 05:33 PM
Raptors......theyre gonna gonna get Bennett and Wiggins in the next couple drafts to go along with Jval and Ross, right Stern ? wouldnt that be nice

Deception
01-21-2013, 05:35 PM
Toronto seems to be on the right track, soon they'll be amazing and add to their many championships... Oh wait.

Byronicle
01-21-2013, 05:38 PM
Pistons have a nasty frontcourt and Knight is decent and Singler and Prince are good role players but that is about it in my opinion, but what pieces can Detroit grab in the future via trade? No one would take Charlie Villaneuva, and maybe guys like Maxiell and Stuckey could be traded but I believe that would just yield lateral moves

Raptors had so many injuries and we got assets that can be traded such as Calderon and his expiring contract + Bargnani. Whatever pieces they bring in will help this team. Ross + Lowry + Davis + Valanciunas looks much better. They got good role players too in Derozan and Amir Johnson

LanceUpperCut
01-21-2013, 05:47 PM
Hard to say both teams have nice young pieces. I do think a lot of people aren't really up to date on just how awesome Ed Davis has been since Bargs went out, he might not be a offensive force but holy **** he's taken a huge step this year. I think Valanciunas is being overlooked to, him like Drummond have the chance to be all-stars in time both young and raw and lets watch Jonas with Davis instead of Bargnani.

Byronicle
01-21-2013, 05:53 PM
drummond doesn't have a dynamic offense. his points come from putbacks and athleticism. how many players have we seen not live up to the hype even though they came in with so much raw potential?

valanciunas is a more complete player, and was a starter playing against other starters

miller74
01-21-2013, 05:59 PM
Love me some Alan Anderson, going to have a very solid career as a bench player

Hellcrooner
01-21-2013, 06:10 PM
we may know after the deadline if raps manage to move bargs and one out of jose and kyle.

what they bring back holds the keys.

albertajaysfan
01-21-2013, 06:18 PM
we may know after the deadline if raps manage to move bargs and one out of jose and kyle.

what they bring back holds the keys.

It's really hard to have faith in BC but I agree.

king4day
01-21-2013, 06:21 PM
I don't think there's any question it's Detroit right now. Monroe and Drummond are going to make a fierce combo in the coming years.

RipCity32
01-21-2013, 07:25 PM
drummond doesn't have a dynamic offense. his points come from putbacks and athleticism. how many players have we seen not live up to the hype even though they came in with so much raw potential?

valanciunas is a more complete player, and was a starter playing against other starters

you have never seen Drummond play have you?The things he can do he does great.

Deception
01-21-2013, 07:28 PM
you have never seen Drummond play have you?The things he can do he does great.

Ignore him, he just sounds stupid with that post.

I Rock Shaqs
01-21-2013, 07:45 PM
Ignore him, he just sounds stupid with that post.

What are you talking about lmao.
How many players who heavily rely on athleticism with no fundamentals have you seen not live up to the hype? Especially C's, it's not that hard of a question.

RipCity32
01-21-2013, 07:47 PM
What are you talking about lmao.
How many players who heavily rely on athleticism with no fundamentals have you seen not live up to the hype? Especially C's, it's not that hard of a question.

Again have you seen him play because if you have you would know comparing him to J Val is insulting as far as potential goes.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 07:48 PM
Ignore him, he just sounds stupid with that post.

There isn't really anything wrong with his post.

I don't want this thread turning Raps & Pistons fans on each other. You guys have some cool posters in your forum, I have nothing against the Pistons as a franchise.

I think both teams have some good upside, hopefully both teams can take that next step and be competitive sooner rather than later.

rockbottom2010
01-21-2013, 07:51 PM
u forgot amir johnson....hes waaaay better than jonas jerebko....

bucketss
01-21-2013, 07:55 PM
Again have you seen him play because if you have you would know comparing him to J Val is insulting as far as potential goes.

have you seen valanciaunas play?

j-bay
01-21-2013, 07:58 PM
None of the above. The Washington Wizards have a better future.

Tmath
01-21-2013, 08:00 PM
None of the above. The Washington Wizards have a better future.

The future will tell the story, we will just have to wait and see. Right now, its all speculation.

RipCity32
01-21-2013, 08:13 PM
have you seen valanciaunas play?

Yes and I think he has potential to be good long time starting big man from what I have seen but from what I have seen from Drummond is he has the potential to be the best center in the league in a few years his talent is very rare.Drummond will wow you when he is on the court and no offense to Raptor fans or J Val but I dont feel that kind of effect when he is on the court.I realize to most people who havent seen Drummond play besides for a few clips I probably sound like a homer over exaggerating a rookie but thats not the case with Drummond he is going to be really good.

LanceUpperCut
01-21-2013, 08:24 PM
Yes and I think he has potential to be good long time starting big man from what I have seen but from what I have seen from Drummond is he has the potential to be the best center in the league in a few years his talent is very rare.Drummond will wow you when he is on the court and no offense to Raptor fans or J Val but I dont feel that kind of effect when he is on the court.I realize to most people who havent seen Drummond play besides for a few clips I probably sound like a homer over exaggerating a rookie but thats not the case with Drummond he is going to be really good.

Drummond could very well be a star but your undervaluing Jonas just the same as you think we are to Drummond. Jonas has one of the best all around skill sets for a young big period, both guys are a couple years away and both have a lot of work to do but I think they each will be a top 10 center in 2-3 years who ever works harder during that time will be the better player. One thing I love about Jonas is his ability to shoot the FT as a big, to me that's a huge thing for your center down the stretch of games.

RipCity32
01-21-2013, 08:29 PM
Drummond could very well be a star but your undervaluing Jonas just the same as you think we are to Drummond. Jonas has one of the best all around skill sets for a young big period, both guys are a couple years away and both have a lot of work to do but I think they each will be a top 10 center in 2-3 years who ever works harder during that time will be the better player. One thing I love about Jonas is his ability to shoot the FT as a big, to me that's a huge thing for your center down the stretch of games.

Fair enough,J Val has better all around game where Drummond is just more physically dominant so I guess time will tell because right now its all pre mature.

bucketss
01-21-2013, 08:37 PM
Yes and I think he has potential to be good long time starting big man from what I have seen but from what I have seen from Drummond is he has the potential to be the best center in the league in a few years his talent is very rare.Drummond will wow you when he is on the court and no offense to Raptor fans or J Val but I dont feel that kind of effect when he is on the court.I realize to most people who havent seen Drummond play besides for a few clips I probably sound like a homer over exaggerating a rookie but thats not the case with Drummond he is going to be really good.

believe me i know i almost puked in mouth watching this kid because i knew raptors were suppose to draft him.drummond has more potential but i wouldn't say its insulting to compare the two . jonas is a lanky 7 footer with a nice touch around the basket and a non stop motor. he still needs to put on weight but when he dose he will be very good.

dalton749
01-22-2013, 01:18 AM
i wouldnt say drummond has more potential. the guy has an nba ready body so he can contribute right away but hes a 40% free throw shooter and will never have a great offensive skill set. i think he could potentialy average 15/15/2.5 kind of thing but hes closer to his ceiling already.
valanciunas still needs to get stronger to be efective but he has a much better all around game. hes a big who likes to play inside, has a developing post game which is good for a young big and the ability to step out and hit a jumper as well as shoot a high percentage from the free throw line. he could potentially be 20/9/2 kind of guy.
both can be good players it just depends if you want more of a garbage man than an offensive option.
comparing them is stupid because they play an entirely different game but it is hardly insulting

RipCity32
01-22-2013, 02:12 AM
I actually just looked up J Vals stats and yeah they are pretty impressive especially because I thought he averaged more than 22mpg.His FT percentage is impressive too.

Drummond-7.4ppg,7.3rpg,1.6bpg,0.4apg,0.8stls,60.7fg%,42.5ft %,19.8mpg

Valanciunas-7.8ppg,5.2rpg,1.1bpg,1.1apg,0.3stls,52.4fg%,70.3ft %,22.4mpg

GunFactor187
01-22-2013, 02:23 AM
Oh my god! A Pistons thread in the NBA Main Forum! O__O

Gritz
01-22-2013, 02:33 AM
Police deleting posts

I Rock Shaqs
01-22-2013, 02:43 AM
again have you seen him play because if you have you would know comparing him to j val is insulting as far as potential goes.

where did i compare him to anybody????
NVM I see you compared them multiple times after a couple posts completely disregarding what you said to me.