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View Full Version : 1B - time to decide on 1B for 2013



bagwell368
01-15-2013, 09:36 AM
With all of these Olt/Napoli/Morse threads, let's get it back to 1B.

With the Sox not willing to deal high specs, and the dearth of choices available, I have two options.

1. Sign Napoli - 1 year or more (no comment really needed)

2. Move Salty to 1B


The advantages of Salty at 1B:


Cheap
Taking him from behind the plate is liable to increase his offensive output - works that way for most Catchers
He's played 1B in the Majors before (40 games), not a lot, but he's liable to be better than Morse at 1B
He'd still be in play as a trade chip for C/1B through the end of the waiver period if we come up with a better option, or the Sox are out of it, and and to cash him in.


Disadvantages:


Short term solution
Not a viable #5 hitter (even if his slash goes up), but a very potent #7 hitter.


Perhaps the reason Salty hasn't been traded is because he's Napoli falling through insurance.

Sarge
01-15-2013, 01:50 PM
I like this idea. It would save a bunch of money for a team that won't make the post season anyway.

Station 13
01-15-2013, 02:05 PM
If Naps fall through...

Give Brentz a chance to play 1B. He isn't your dream 900OPS 1B, but if he could just field and hit above .270 and 20HR he's a mid of the pack 1B. Spring training he plays 1B and spend 4-6 weeks in AAA and get a called up.

Salty isn't any better than a low .200BA and 20HR 1B if they went that route.

Nomar
01-15-2013, 02:15 PM
Brentz has serious approach issues that he at least should try to fix before getting called up. I wouldn't expect him here until the end of the year.

AI.
01-15-2013, 02:19 PM
If Naps fall through...

Give Brentz a chance to play 1B. He isn't your dream 900OPS 1B, but if he could just field and hit above .270 and 20HR he's a mid of the pack 1B. Spring training he plays 1B and spend 4-6 weeks in AAA and get a called up.

Salty isn't any better than a low .200BA and 20HR 1B if they went that route.

Brentz isn't a 1B, no reason to play him there when reports are he's an average to above-average defensive OF with a plus arm. If Napoli is a no-go, I'd be fine with Mauro Gomez/Salty at 1B for this year, it's not like we're going to win anything anyways. Mauro has been tearing up the Dominican Winter League, he's raking.

Station 13
01-15-2013, 02:22 PM
Brentz isn't a 1B, no reason to play him there when reports are he's an average to above-average defensive OF with a plus arm. If Napoli is a no-go, I'd be fine with a Salty and Mauro Gomez platoon in 1B for this year, it's not like we're going to win anything anyways.

Players play out of position all the time, especially OF. Salty is a terrible 1B consideration. Also I never recall anyone saying he is above average in the OF.

Nomar
01-15-2013, 02:28 PM
Everything I've read recently suggests that Brentz's defense declined last year and that his arm is his only above average tool.

Morneau, Smoak, or backdoor chance of Ike Davis (Duda hurt though so not too realistic) could come into play again too.

AI.
01-15-2013, 02:31 PM
Players play out of position all the time, especially OF. Salty is a terrible 1B consideration. Also I never recall anyone saying he is above average in the OF.

I've read multiple scouting reports that grade him out to be average to above average with the glove and having a plus arm, with 1 certain prospect guru (can't remember who) saying he was below-average. It's one thing to play out of position when you are blocked or flat out suck at your position, in Brentz' case, it's neither. He has a good chance to become our everyday RF in 2014, you keep him there unless his defense declines to a point where he becomes a butcher with the glove, there's always LF (a good position for a slugger).

As for Salty, he might suck at 1B but as Bags has pointed out on multiple occasions, there are other motives that help make the move an easier transition for the team. His offensive output should increase from not having the wear and tear of being an everyday catcher; plus we get him out from behind the plate where he's horrible, both as a game caller and with the glove.

bagwell368
01-15-2013, 02:42 PM
If Naps fall through...

Give Brentz a chance to play 1B. He isn't your dream 900OPS 1B, but if he could just field and hit above .270 and 20HR he's a mid of the pack 1B. Spring training he plays 1B and spend 4-6 weeks in AAA and get a called up.

Salty isn't any better than a low .200BA and 20HR 1B if they went that route.

Brentz might be a good move after Salty is dealt or in September. But Gomez and Salty seems more solid to me than Brentz.

Every every day catcher wears down. I could see Salty being a .230/.300/.520 hitter being taken away from catcher, which is not bad as a one year option that costs us ~$3.75M and no specs.

I like Morneau a ton, but we won't get away dealing a bunch of chuff for the guy, and he'd cost us $14M in salary unless Minny eats some of that. Minny might as well keep him and deal him at the deadline if he's doing well to a team with an injured or faltering 1B for more than they could get now.

Station 13
01-15-2013, 03:16 PM
If Kalish can get back on his feet he would play RF here for the next few years until his body can't handled it anymore. Brentz could get booted from the OF. Not sure if LF is right for him either. He isn't a good glove from all I read. We absolutely have nothing at the majors or minors for 1B. That could change by making Brentz a 1B.

Nomar
01-15-2013, 03:20 PM
If Brentz can cut his K's down to 18%, which would be insane, then he has my blessing as a 1B. He doesn't have the chops to be an above average 1B IMO.

AI.
01-15-2013, 03:24 PM
Way too early to tell what we have at 1B in the minors or who will be our future 1B. Too many possible outcomes for the FO to consider moving Brentz. What if Xander needs to be moved to 3B? WMB could slide over to 1B and now you've stunted Brentz' growth (defensively as an OF). 1B is arguably the easiest position to fill, be it internally/externally.

Green_Monster
01-15-2013, 03:32 PM
I would've liked to see Sands play 1B, but he's gone now. A Salty/Gomez platoon is what I see happening.

Nomar
01-15-2013, 03:42 PM
Everyone who is suggesting a Salty/Gomez platoon at 1B needs to look at their splits. They both only hit RHP. Gomez and Salty both had an OPS under .600 (Salty under .500) vs. LHP. Gomez had a .911 OPS vs RHP which is great. In the Dominican Winter League Gomez has an OPS of .762 vs LHP and .841 vs RHP. They dont make sense as a platoon though.

AI.
01-15-2013, 04:36 PM
Everyone who is suggesting a Salty/Gomez platoon at 1B needs to look at their splits. They both only hit RHP. Gomez and Salty both had an OPS under .600 (Salty under .500) vs. LHP. Gomez had a .911 OPS vs RHP which is great. In the Dominican Winter League Gomez has an OPS of .762 vs LHP and .841 vs RHP. They dont make sense as a platoon though.

I was fully aware of this, I didn't bring it up because I still don't think it's a big enough sample size. Guess we'll see if Mauro gets AB's this year.

Nomar
01-15-2013, 04:46 PM
I was fully aware of this, I didn't bring it up because I still don't think it's a big enough sample size. Guess we'll see if Mauro gets AB's this year.

In the MLB redraft where did we find minor league splits? Because I remember we did so with Rizzo before we drafted him to make sure we didnt need a platoon. If a player has played in the MLB then you cant see them on MiLB.com

AI.
01-15-2013, 04:48 PM
I think it was Baseball America, but it only shows you the splits for his most recent minor league season.

So, it's still a 1 year sample.

Seguin
01-16-2013, 06:54 AM
The reason Salty hasn't been traded is because he won't be traded. He can play C, 1b, and dh... All 3 are positions with health/talent question marks. He'll be on the team opening day and its more likely Lavarnway isnt

jn6474
01-16-2013, 07:41 AM
The reason Salty hasn't been traded is because he won't be traded. He can play C, 1b, and dh... All 3 are positions with health/talent question marks. He'll be on the team opening day and its more likely Lavarnway isnt

No the reason Saltalamacchia hasnt been traded is because nobody will pay the price they are looking for to deal him away.

ruckus16969
01-16-2013, 09:10 AM
Salty hadnt been traded because there hasnt been resolution to the Napoli deal. Simple.

RedSoxtober
01-16-2013, 10:47 AM
In the MLB redraft where did we find minor league splits? Because I remember we did so with Rizzo before we drafted him to make sure we didnt need a platoon. If a player has played in the MLB then you cant see them on MiLB.com

Try MiLB.com

bagwell368
01-16-2013, 12:14 PM
The reason Salty hasn't been traded is because he won't be traded. He can play C, 1b, and dh... All 3 are positions with health/talent question marks. He'll be on the team opening day and its more likely Lavarnway isnt

Below average hitting DH/1B are not that difficult to obtain. Awful game calling catchers are not that hard to find either. If the Sox were serious about winning, he'd likely be gone. If Salty plays regularly at DH or 1B, than there is no reason for Lavarnway not to be a member of the catching tandem.

Long term Lavarnway will be here and Salty will be gone.

So far to date after signing a contract for a MLB team Lavarnway has well outpaced Salty's progress, and the Sox have 5 more years of control with Lavarnway and just one year with Salty.

Crucis
01-16-2013, 05:01 PM
Salty hasn't been traded because there hasn't been a resolution to the Napoli deal. Simple.

I won't say that that's the one and only reason, but I agree that it's probably a big reason why the Sox are hesitant to move him. But I think that you're on the money that if and after Napoli gets signed, Salty becomes much more expendable.

RedSoxtober
01-16-2013, 05:10 PM
Below average hitting DH/1B are not that difficult to obtain. Awful game calling catchers are not that hard to find either. If the Sox were serious about winning, he'd likely be gone. If Salty plays regularly at DH or 1B, than there is no reason for Lavarnway not to be a member of the catching tandem.

Long term Lavarnway will be here and Salty will be gone.

So far to date after signing a contract for a MLB team Lavarnway has well outpaced Salty's progress, and the Sox have 5 more years of control with Lavarnway and just one year with Salty.

Completely agree. It's far more likely that Salty hangs around only until a contender has an injury at C. Suggesting that he stays over Lavarnway is also ignoring the reason they signed David Ross.

Nomar
01-16-2013, 05:16 PM
Completely agree. It's far more likely that Salty hangs around only until a contender has an injury at C. Suggesting that he stays over Lavarnway is also ignoring the reason they signed David Ross.

Exactly. I think it's clear that the Red Sox are done with letting Salty call games. Our pitching has been a disgrace with him catching and he doesnt make an impact with his offense. We wouldn't have signed a top notch backup if we weren't ready to give young Lavarnway the reigns.

AI.
01-16-2013, 05:19 PM
I'm not sure they are giving him the reigns because I think Ross will play much more than the normal backup but I do agree with the sentiment that Lavarnway stays and Salty is a goner.

Nomar
01-16-2013, 05:22 PM
What I meant was that they want Lavarnway to succeed and be the catcher of the future.

bagwell368
01-17-2013, 07:16 AM
I'm not sure they are giving him the reigns because I think Ross will play much more than the normal backup but I do agree with the sentiment that Lavarnway stays and Salty is a goner.

I think the issue is when we are talking:

In '13 Ross getting 3/5 and Lavarnway 2/5 is fine. Lavarnway with Salty at 1B, and Gomez or better behind him means that Lavarnway can PH w/o worrying about an injury to Ross being an issue, or visa versa.

In '14, Salty is liable to be gone, and there is plenty of room for Ross and Lavarnway. No serious help from the Minors can be expected earlier than the final stages of '14 at the latest (Swihart).

In '15 it figures to be Lavarnway w/ Swihart as the back-up if he's ready and he's still a C - since Ross's contract is over in '14, and he'll be 38 in March '15. If Swihart isn't ready to go, then another FA catcher.

No matter how you slice it, Lavarnway figures to catch more games over the next 3 years than any other player.

RedSoxtober
01-17-2013, 10:59 AM
In '15 it figures to be Lavarnway w/ Swihart as the back-up if he's ready and he's still a C - since Ross's contract is over in '14, and he'll be 38 in March '15. If Swihart isn't ready to go, then another FA catcher.


I wouldn't be surprised to see Vazquez as the short term backup in 2015, giving more time for Swihart/Weems to develop. Both need to add a lot of mass before they've got the frame for a MLB catcher.

bagwell368
01-17-2013, 11:29 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Vazquez as the short term backup in 2015, giving more time for Swihart/Weems to develop. Both need to add a lot of mass before they've got the frame for a MLB catcher.

That's sounds right.