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View Full Version : Do you think Derrick Rose will go down as one of the most overrated MVPs ever?



Everymanalion
01-15-2013, 02:59 AM
Title says it all, I like his game but to me he is underwhelming and Stern was looking to give it to someone else besides the usual, it looked like a good idea at the time to give to to D.Rose assuming he continued to play well but injury and lackluster Bulls performances in the playoffs, most dissapointing/overrated MVP ever?

Edit: I like D.Rose' game, I just do not like his off court persona but he is paid to play ball and nothing else, so this is not just hate. Just curious about where he is viewed by others.

tredigs
01-15-2013, 03:01 AM
His post-season injury diminishes a regular season MVP? Stern? If you're going to create a thread like this, at least know what you're talking about.

LGhost
01-15-2013, 03:02 AM
Search function

DChibes
01-15-2013, 03:02 AM
This is the dumbest thread ever.

cutiepie80
01-15-2013, 03:05 AM
Yes, big time. He took an 8th seed to the best record in the east the following year. Big time overrated. Also, when he tore his acl.......his Bulls couldn't get past a Sixers team that many people can't name 2 players.

smiddy012
01-15-2013, 03:11 AM
You're not asking a question, you're making a statement, you just don't have the balls or evidence to actually spell out what you're implying.

All that said, and I'm sure you haven't gotten this far, the only player who had a valid argument of MVP over Rose that year was DH. Statistically DH had a bigger overall influence, when you take his defense into account, but DRose carried that injury-riddled Bulls team in the clutch like clockwork.

And about the one point you actually do make, the MVP is a regular season award, and has nothing to do with the playoffs. And how the heck does an injury the season after he got his MVP effect the validity of his past MVP?

Everymanalion
01-15-2013, 03:11 AM
Yes, big time. He took an 8th seed to the best record in the east the following year. Big time overrated. Also, when he tore his acl.......his Bulls couldn't get past a Sixers team that many people can't name 2 players.

Was- Spencer Hawes, J. Holiday, Iggy, Lou Williams. There is 4. ha

justinnum1
01-15-2013, 03:15 AM
no

cutiepie80
01-15-2013, 03:16 AM
Was- Spencer Hawes, J. Holiday, Iggy, Lou Williams. There is 4. ha

Thanks

Everymanalion
01-15-2013, 03:17 AM
Only reason I ask is because someone tried to tell me A.I. MVP season was more overrated than D.Rose and we had a little argument over it...thats all ha

nitric
01-15-2013, 03:20 AM
As long as you have no respect for the following peoples opinions

"Once again, I think they have got the MVP of the league. That kid has come into his own. He has matured quite a bit. When he came into the league, everybody said he had speed, he could get to the rim, but he can't shoot. Now he can shoot—the three, as well as pull-up shots. He has very few flaws. I'm pretty sure the next thing they are going to say is that he doesn't play good defense, or he can't handle a double-team. Time will tell. The kid works hard and I think he's a great piece for this franchise to rebuild with."
-- Michael Jordan on Derrick Rose

"Chicago's Derrick Rose is clearly the MVP in my mind. I've had the opportunity to watch him play every night and I'm very high on the way he's developed as a leader. Now, his team is playing towards a 60-win season. He's been spectacular."
-- Scottie Pippen on Derrick Rose

"Derrick has been tremendous down the stretch of games. What separates him from the other contenders for MVP is when you look at the Bulls' overall success. His winning attitude has become contagious. He's made great strides defensively, giving the same effort on that end of the floor as he does offensively. He gets better every night because he's so competitive. He stepped up on defense and his team has followed. That's the definition of leadership."
-- Scottie Pippen on Derrick Rose

"Derrick is playing extremely well. He's definitely probably the MVP of this league. This guy had 30 (points) and 17 (assists against Milwaukee on March 26). He can affect this game by scoring and also by his teammates. He is just going to get better, which is going to be a lot of fun to watch. I think he has all of the tools to be one of the best that played the game."
-- 10-time NBA All-Star Jason Kidd

"Derrick has been phenomenal this year. He continues to grow. He's not only a terrific athlete, but he has turned into a terrific basketball player and he's a great kid. He's a willing learner [and] teammate, and I have nothing but great things to say about him."
-- Steve Nash

"He has stepped up and is now one of the best players in the league. I think he is a worthy MVP this year. But regardless, he's a terrific player and will have a sensational career."
-- Steve Nash

"LeBron has won the last two [MVP awards]. He is my teammate, but Derrick has had a phenomenal season. Just looking at what he has done with the team and their record, how improved they are as a team and how much improved he is as a player. I think it's close, but I think I would give it to Derrick if I were a voter."
-- Miami Heat forward Chris Bosh

"He's playing well, like he's the best point guard in the league and the best player in the league. He's the most valuable player if you really think about it. If you take him out of the lineup, there is no telling what you get."
-- Miami Heat forward Chris Bosh

"Derrick is having a great year. I don't have a vote, but of course Derrick is one of the guys who is a front-runner. He's got to finish out this year strong. Of course, I believe LeBron is a front-runner as well. Those two guys are the leaders of the MVP run. I'm going to be biased and choose my teammate. There's no question about it."
-- Miami Heat guard Dwyane Wade

"Like I always keep saying, with team success comes individual accolades. D-Rose is having an unbelievable season. He's doing everything and more to help this team be a contender. There is no way you can mention the MVP race without mentioning his name."
-- Miami Heat forward LeBron James

"I think the sky is the limit for him. You see now just with the improvement he's made off his jump shot from last year to this year how much his game has really gone to another level. I think he's just scratching the surface. He's realizing now what a jump shot can do. Hopefully, he'll continue to work on it and become a pure shooter."
-- Kobe Bryant

"Hard working, good looking, no chest thumping, and modest demeanor; just a class act. All of that on top of his phenomenal play. He has taken a monster leap this year. What's really great about him is that he seems to love the pressure in putting his team on his back. He has the character and the demeanor to do that. Superstars have that character and leadership gene."
-- San Antonio Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich

"I would imagine that just out of the blue that Derrick Rose is going to be the guy. That team is what, first in the East right now, or tied? He's literally vaulted that team up on his shoulders by [Carlos] Boozer being out the first month and a half or so. I would say just on pure ‘one guy', individually, he's probably going to get a lot of votes."
-- Los Angeles Lakers head coach Phil Jackson

"I think [it's] Derrick Rose. What he's done for that team, with all the injuries they have and them being first in the Eastern Conference -- they're playing some really good basketball."
-- Two-time MVP (2009, 2010) and seven-time NBA All-Star LeBron James

"Right now, statistically, it's probably one of the best years I've had. But we'll see. The media kind of controls it. You've got some guys here that have done their job also. At one point, I thought Dirk [Nowitzki] was also [worthy] until he got hurt. But Derrick Rose definitely has gotten a lot of the exposure and a lot of the media attention because of the work he's done. He's playing some unbelievable basketball."
-- Two-time MVP (2009, 2010) and seven-time NBA All-Star LeBron James

"You look at what he's done with his team, it's tough to argue D-Rose isn't the MVP."
-- Minnesota Timberwolves forward Kevin Love

cutiepie80
01-15-2013, 03:21 AM
And the Bulls crushed Miami game 1. Had chances to win in 2-3 other games but didn't.

Bottom line is, that year Rose was unreal and he made a decent team awesome. Just because they are playing well now doesn't mean he is not going to really upgrade them. He makes everyone around him better. You want to get mad about this, get mad at the coach of the year Thibodeau for getting whatever he has to work with work.

bbcmillionaire
01-15-2013, 03:21 AM
hmmm lol a knick fan, using your argument amare stoudamire is the worst player on the knicks. i mean when he was inactive the knicks were rolling. novak>stoudamire. lol Oh and 3-0 against the knicks:D

BULLSFAN0810
01-15-2013, 03:24 AM
come on bro .... lets smoke a little kush and you let the bad feelings go. i dislike Brons game. i think he is overrated, but i also think the league is overrated except for Kobe,Durant,Rose and CP3. with that said, Bron is a beast when he is on,and i will NEVER take away his MVPs because he clearly earned it playing against the talent pool .

fin_frenzy_84
01-15-2013, 03:31 AM
This thread <<<<

yaswaggin
01-15-2013, 02:44 PM
Lebron had better stats that year

But give rose props, he beat lebron in the regular season, where it counts. Oh wait

Rose choked hard in the heat bulls playoff series, 35 percent FG %, but its a regular season award, still lebron outplayed him statistically in the reg season

8kobe24
01-15-2013, 02:55 PM
this thread is overrated.

ManRam
01-15-2013, 02:56 PM
I mean, it was one of the weaker MVP seasons individually, but he deserved it.

So whatever. It is what it is.

MickeyMgl
01-15-2013, 02:57 PM
Title says it all, I like his game but to me he is underwhelming and Stern was looking to give it to someone else besides the usual, it looked like a good idea at the time to give to to D.Rose assuming he continued to play well but injury and lackluster Bulls performances in the playoffs, most dissapointing/overrated MVP ever?

Edit: I like D.Rose' game, I just do not like his off court persona but he is paid to play ball and nothing else, so this is not just hate. Just curious about where he is viewed by others.

Not more overrated than Iverson or Nash.

NYKnickFanatic
01-15-2013, 03:02 PM
To answer your question, definitely not. DRose is a beast and definitely will not be the most overrated to win it.

JerseyPalahniuk
01-15-2013, 03:17 PM
As long as you have no respect for the following peoples opinions

Do you disagree with all these players/coaches Everymanalion? That post about sums up the answer to your question dude

Chronz
01-15-2013, 03:18 PM
Definitely between he, Iverson and Unseld

ElChinoLatino
01-15-2013, 03:19 PM
This is the stupidest thread yet.

THE_G.O.A.T.
01-15-2013, 03:29 PM
Is this the most overrated thread of all time?....No, this thread was stupid to begin with.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-15-2013, 03:35 PM
Title says it all, I like his game but to me he is underwhelming and Stern was looking to give it to someone else besides the usual, it looked like a good idea at the time to give to to D.Rose assuming he continued to play well but injury and lackluster Bulls performances in the playoffs, most dissapointing/overrated MVP ever?

Edit: I like D.Rose' game, I just do not like his off court persona but he is paid to play ball and nothing else, so this is not just hate. Just curious about where he is viewed by others.

They made the ECF that year. And what does an injury in the 2012 season have anything to do with the 2011 MVP? Just a horrible analysis.

And what's wrong with his off the court persona? Do you prefer that he be a drama queen like most of the superstars in this league?

justinnum1
01-15-2013, 03:37 PM
Answer is no. But also, one has to think if lebron wasn't the most hated man in america that year things would have probably been different.

Dnovakovic099
01-15-2013, 03:46 PM
Answer is no. But also, one has to think if lebron wasn't the most hated man in america that year things would have probably been different.

Eh, it was more of the Bulls success than LeBron IMO. I do think that Rose got way too much credit that season. Thibs is the MVP of the Bulls and not Rose. I firmly believe that. However, I don't know about the most overrated ever because I have only been watching the NBA for 10 years. Of this generation? Hell yes he was the most overrated. I guess you can argue Nash, considering Marion and JJ where pretty underrated on that team. If CP3 wins it this year I think he would be the most overrated, LeBron or Durant need to win it.

chicagocubsfan
01-15-2013, 03:51 PM
Title says it all, I like his game but to me he is underwhelming and Stern was looking to give it to someone else besides the usual, it looked like a good idea at the time to give to to D.Rose assuming he continued to play well but injury and lackluster Bulls performances in the playoffs, most dissapointing/overrated MVP ever?

Edit: I like D.Rose' game, I just do not like his off court persona but he is paid to play ball and nothing else, so this is not just hate. Just curious about where he is viewed by others. What don't you like about his off court persona? Guy seems like one of the most humble stars in the league. He took a team which was 8th and turned it into the number 1 team in the league. And it was against a team which was billed as the next team to win 70 games.

chicagocubsfan
01-15-2013, 03:53 PM
Answer is no. But also, one has to think if lebron wasn't the most hated man in america that year things would have probably been different.

I think it had to do with the fact that some pundits thought that the Heat would be the #1 seed in the league easily.

LAKobeBryant
01-15-2013, 03:56 PM
You probably forgot how good he is. Been two years since he was 100%

JiffyMix88
01-15-2013, 03:59 PM
No he earned it and to lead the Bulls to a better record than a team that had LeBron Wade And Bosh(in which they were suppose to go 82-0 how everyone was talking before the season started) I feel he should have gotten it over LeBron. To Derrick's credit he was the only player top 10 in both assist and points per game, he also lead the same team that got dominated in the first round by LeBron the prior year. One could argue we didn't have the same team because of the Boozer signing but in all honestly he was out for the first 2 months and was not the same Boozer in Utah or the Boozer we see today.

DeyAce
01-15-2013, 04:02 PM
This thread deserves double :facepalm::facepalm:

Chronz
01-15-2013, 04:17 PM
It gos without saying that every MVP winner in History has earned his MVP, but that doesn't mean every MVP won is equally impressive or deserving. Thats why people clowning the question itself are idiots, by default there has to be 1 MVP that sticks out, if even in the slightest. Looking at the performances required to win MVP, Rose's season stacks right next to AI's and Unseld's as the least impressive.

TheNumber37
01-15-2013, 04:20 PM
Overrated? as a player or as an MVP?

As a player, no? as an MVP see Steve Nash who happens to have done this twice.

JiffyMix88
01-15-2013, 04:21 PM
It gos without saying that every MVP winner in History has earned his MVP, but that doesn't mean every MVP won is equally impressive or deserving. Thats why people clowning the question itself are idiots, by default there has to be 1 MVP that sticks out, if even in the slightest. Looking at the performances required to win MVP, Rose's season stacks right next to AI's and Unseld's as the least impressive.

Sure if your looking at stats but even your man himself said it best; when your team is successful all the individual accolades will come with it.

SteBO
01-15-2013, 04:23 PM
No. He carried the Bulls to heights they weren't expected to reach. You can simply call it overachieving if you want to, but D-Rose was a HUGE reason for it. His MVP award doesn't deserve to be labeled "overrated".....

amos1er
01-15-2013, 04:27 PM
This article has some great points. Rose was the best offensive player on a team that was the 15th best in that category. The Bulls defense that year was the main reason for their vast improvement (1st in points allowed per possession), and they were proven to be better in that category when Rose was on the bench. Thibs was the most responsible for the Bulls drastic improvement...not Rose. Sorry Bulls fans.


ESPN’s John Hollinger, one of the pioneers of modern statistics, was asked in a recent chat what his argument against Rose was besides Player Efficiency Rating (Howard’s PER of 26.42 is second in the NBA to LeBron James’ 26.82; Rose is 11th at 23.32).

Hollinger wrote, “You mean, besides the fact we’re giving it to the key offensive player on the league’s 15th-best offense, when the story of the team’s surprise season has been their top-rated defense, and he’s been the worst defender on the team in terms of plus-minus … for the second time in three years? Must just be my irrational hater bias at work again.”

He continued when asked about it again.

“It’s also a case of connecting dots that sound good but aren’t necessarily true — i.e., the Bulls are having a great year (true), the Bulls only have one great player (true), therefore the Bulls would be garbage without that player (false), and thus that player has the most value (also false). … Rose is a great player, and he’s offset my earlier criticism about not getting to the line by drawing a lot more fouls. But the Bulls are winning because of their awesomely good defense, and he’s played a minor role in that story.”

Earlier this afternoon, Yahoo’s Kelly Dwyer conceded Rose would win the award but didn’t agree with it.

Dwyer wrote, “He’s the biggest reason the Bulls are the best story in the NBA, which is the largest driving force behind most award votes. But the Bulls are on pace to rule the Eastern Conference mainly (“mainly,” geesh … completely) because they’ve jumped from 11th in points allowed per possession last season, to tops overall this year. The team has gone from 18th in offense to 12th this year, not an insignificant jump in the slightest, but the real story behind these Bulls lies in the heart of that defensive improvement. And Rose, we’re sorry, is not the reason for that jump. The team’s new coach, Tom Thibodeau, is.”

Tom Ziller, one of SBNation’s premier NBA writers, went a step further, saying Rose is a comparable MVP candidate to Oklahoma City’s Russell Westbrook, who obviously won’t come close to winning the award.

Said Ziller: “If you’re willing to strongly consider Rose for the award, you’ve also got to consider Westbrook. And if you consider Rose and Westbrook, you’ve got to consider superior producers LeBron James, Dwight Howard, Dwayne Wade, Dirk Nowitzki … heck, Durant. Kevin Love is as productive as Rose. Why not him? Where would the Wolves be without Kevin Love? Worst team ever? Kobe Bryant. Zach Randolph. Pau Gasol. Amar’e Stoudemire. All of these players compare to Rose in terms of production; many of them compare favorably.”

And if you’re looking for more statistics, they have them at Silver Screen and Roll, where a Lakers blogger named Actuarially Sound jumps into the MVP debate. A chart shows the Bulls are significantly, significantly better on defense when Rose is OFF the floor. Shouldn’t an MVP impact both offense and defense?

Sound continues: “Rose sticks out like a sore thumb. The team is significantly better defensively when he is not on the court. Some may say this is because he goes against the opposition’s starters, who are more skilled than the bench, but so do Noah, Boozer and Deng. To Rose’s credit, if I were to show the same graph focusing on offense, it would be exactly the opposite. When Rose is not on the court the offense becomes much worse and no other player on the team has a similar impact. Essentially, Rose’s superior offense helps to cover up for his defensive liabilities. This helps explain why Rose is not in the top five in Win Shares, which take into account both offense and defense. But that begs the following question: Shouldn’t the MVP be solid on both ends of the floor?”

Maybe Howard needs another season? Orlando Sentinel Magic Insider Brian Schmitz, who praised Howard’s MVP chances earlier this month, says Howard has set himself up to win the award next season. The MVP voters have a way of voting players in a year late (Dirk Nowitzki in ‘07, Kobe Bryant in ‘08).

“He likely will finish second to Rose this time, although I wouldn’t rule out a last-minute burst of LeBron love for runner-up,” Schmitz wrote. “But Howard’s career season, in which he improved offensively to satisfy his critics, has now built a spectacular line of credit among the voters. Howard is like the Cubs. Wait ’til next season.”

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2011/03/dwight-howard-deserves-mvp-but-hes-long-shot-at-this-point.html

3RDASYSTEM
01-15-2013, 04:28 PM
Only reason I ask is because someone tried to tell me A.I. MVP season was more overrated than D.Rose and we had a little argument over it...thats all ha

Ask that someone you know whats harder to do
beat HOWARD or beatout SHAQ/DUNCAN for MVP?

O_Touro
01-15-2013, 04:32 PM
He was exciting to watch! And he will keep on being that when he comes back

JordansBulls
01-15-2013, 04:37 PM
It gos without saying that every MVP winner in History has earned his MVP, but that doesn't mean every MVP won is equally impressive or deserving. Thats why people clowning the question itself are idiots, by default there has to be 1 MVP that sticks out, if even in the slightest. Looking at the performances required to win MVP, Rose's season stacks right next to AI's and Unseld's as the least impressive.
How so? He led the Bulls in stats, he also was the only allstar on the squad and beat every team in the league as well.

Chronz
01-15-2013, 04:38 PM
Sure if your looking at stats
Prove it plz.


but even your man himself said it best; when your team is successful all the individual accolades will come with it.
Heres the problem, THEY ALL WON THE ACCOLADE. Being the MVP is more than just about statistical domination for EVERY MVP to ever win it. So again, you cant dismiss the question by saying he deserved the award because its a non-distingiushing distinction. THEY ALL DESERVED THE MVP. You see where Im coming from?

O_Touro
01-15-2013, 04:41 PM
no. He carried the bulls to heights they weren't expected to reach. You can simply call it overachieving if you want to, but d-rose was a huge reason for it. His mvp award doesn't deserve to be labeled "overrated".....

this

Chronz
01-15-2013, 04:41 PM
No. He carried the Bulls to heights they weren't expected to reach. You can simply call it overachieving if you want to, but D-Rose was a HUGE reason for it. His MVP award doesn't deserve to be labeled "overrated".....

The term overrated is completely subjective because it depends on what that person has heard. For example, if someone told me that Rose's MVP campaign was one of the best seasons hes seen from a player I would say hes overrating it.

Most people dont go that deep into but the OP elaborates on the argument he was having with his friend.

So the question he should have asked was where does this MVP rank. That way everyone can give their own subjective opinions on something somewhat tangible (rankings) rather than something 100% subjective (overratedness)

Chronz
01-15-2013, 04:42 PM
this is a logical fallacy

Fixed

amos1er
01-15-2013, 04:44 PM
How so? He led the Bulls in stats, he also was the only allstar on the squad and beat every team in the league as well.

He led the Bulls in offense. The Bulls offense was only 15th best in the league.

Rose was the worst on the team in terms of +/- defensively. The team did better defensively with him on the bench. The Bulls were the best in the league defensively and Rose was their worst player in that category. The Bulls biggest reason for success was defense.

If Rose was the best offensive player on a team that was successful due to it's great defense, than how can Rose be the most valuable player in the NBA?

northsider
01-15-2013, 04:44 PM
Oh boo ****ing hoo.

Same ****ing **** every time one of these pop up.

He's a game changer and was the Bulls closer and super star in a great season. It's always the same arguments from the same characters every time.

He had an amazing year and was one of the most VALUABLE players to his team. Just stop haters Rose is a beast.

Uncbball234
01-15-2013, 04:44 PM
Title says it all, I like his game but to me he is underwhelming and Stern was looking to give it to someone else besides the usual, it looked like a good idea at the time to give to to D.Rose assuming he continued to play well but injury and lackluster Bulls performances in the playoffs, most dissapointing/overrated MVP ever?

Edit: I like D.Rose' game, I just do not like his off court persona but he is paid to play ball and nothing else, so this is not just hate. Just curious about where he is viewed by others.

This is stupid

northsider
01-15-2013, 04:46 PM
Sure the defense deserves a share in that award however more times then not it wasn't the defense closing those games out that he would take over and win for us.

I mean our defense is amazing but, it has a knack of allowing teams back into the games late and that's when Rose was at his best and would take the team on his back and win the games for us. That was one of the best seasons I have gotten to watch by Bulls player since Jordan and Rose was easily one of the most exciting players to watch in the NBA.

amos1er
01-15-2013, 04:46 PM
The term overrated is completely subjective because it depends on what that person has heard. For example, if someone told me that Rose's MVP campaign was one of the best seasons hes seen from a player I would say hes overrating it.

Most people dont go that deep into but the OP elaborates on the argument he was having with his friend.

So the question he should have asked was where does this MVP rank. That way everyone can give their own subjective opinions on something somewhat tangible (rankings) rather than something 100% subjective (overratedness)

I would say that in terms of overrated MVP's, Rose ranks in the top 5 of all time for sure.

LongIslandIcedZ
01-15-2013, 04:47 PM
Perhaps its an overrated statistical MVP performance, but the success that Rose brought the Bulls evens it out.

gotoHcarolina52
01-15-2013, 04:47 PM
The MVP is a regular season award and he was great for the Bulls in the regular season, but he had one of the most disappointing playoff performances by an MVP I've ever seen.

SteBO
01-15-2013, 04:48 PM
The term overrated is completely subjective because it depends on what that person has heard. For example, if someone told me that Rose's MVP campaign was one of the best seasons hes seen from a player I would say hes overrating it.

Most people dont go that deep into but the OP elaborates on the argument he was having with his friend.

So the question he should have asked was where does this MVP rank. That way everyone can give their own subjective opinions on something somewhat tangible (rankings) rather than something 100% subjective (overratedness)


Fixed
We also measure itagainst all the other MVP winners in the history of the league. Regardless, based on the criteria the media has set in terms of popularity, team record, games played/missed, statistics, and expectations, there's no doubt that Rose was the best choice in 2010-2011 in my mind. They won 65-66 games with key players out for a significant amount of time.

JiffyMix88
01-15-2013, 04:50 PM
Prove it plz.

So if he wasn't among those three you listed as the worst statistical season for a MVP then you just backed my claim up..... :confused:

Heres the problem, THEY ALL WON THE ACCOLADE. Being the MVP is more than just about statistical domination for EVERY MVP to ever win it. So again, you cant dismiss the question by saying he deserved the award because its a non-distingiushing distinction. THEY ALL DESERVED THE MVP. You see where Im coming from?

Yes I do but in my eyes he was the MVP(maybe cause I am a Bulls fan). He was the only player in the top 10 in assist and points and lead his team to the best overall record in the NBA with basically the same team the year before. If he was the most overrated MVP then so be it but plenty of people with basketball knowledge also thought that as well(and maybe it was because everyone hated LeBron at the time).

northsider
01-15-2013, 04:50 PM
The MVP is a regular season award and he was great for the Bulls in the regular season, but he had one of the most disappointing playoff performances by an MVP I've ever seen.

Really? He took them to a conference final against a team where he faced Bosh/Lebron/Wade?

I mean it's not like he lost to scrubs he faced one of the most talented teams in the NBA and undoubtedly the BEST player in the NBA who had Wade and Bosh to boot.

Chronz
01-15-2013, 04:54 PM
We also measure itagainst all the other MVP winners in the history of the league. Regardless, based on the criteria the media has set in terms of popularity, team record, games played/missed, statistics, and expectations, there's no doubt that Rose was the best choice in 2010-2011 in my mind. They won 65-66 games with key players out for a significant amount of time.

Yea but I dont think the topic is to validate whether Rose was the best choice for MVP or not. Im pretty sure the admission that he is the MVP means hes making the next comparison, by stacking up his MVP credentials vs the rest of league history, as he did in his Rose vs Iverson argument.

By this measure, I find Rose's MVP to among the 3-4 least impressive campaigns.

ManRam
01-15-2013, 04:55 PM
This article has some great points. Rose was the best offensive player on a team that was the 15th best in that category. The Bulls defense that year was the main reason for their vast improvement (1st in points allowed per possession), and they were proven to be better in that category when Rose was on the bench. Thibs was the most responsible for the Bulls drastic improvement...not Rose. Sorry Bulls fans.

That's exactly what I was saying at the time, and it seems that the credit to the defense and Thibs is now becoming unavoidable. They are both tremendous, and potentially more valuable to that team (the defense certainly is) than any one player. But Thibs and "Chicago's defense" can't win MVPs.

Rose had one of the weaker individual seasons any MVP has ever had. Does that make him an overrated winner? I don't think so. It just is what it is.

He wasn't the best player in the NBA, and he wasn't close. But he was the most invaluable player to the team with the greatest turnaround. For that reason, knowing how convoluted the MVP criteria can be, he was deserving in the end. I argued for Howard and LeBron all year, both of whom were better players, but treating the MVP award like the team-contingent award it is, Rose winning it ultimately became 100% fine with me. The Magic never quite got it going, and the Heat were a relative disappointment in many people's eye's.

Deserving winner; one of the 5 weakest individual MVP seasons.

Chronz
01-15-2013, 04:57 PM
Ask that someone you know whats harder to do
beat HOWARD or beatout SHAQ/DUNCAN for MVP?

I would answer, whats easier to believe, that Rose is the MVP of a league with Dwight Howard struggling or a year in which Shaq and Duncan/C-Webb were all in their primes. And if I happened to be Allen Iverson answering that question, I would likely tell you that I wasn't the rightful MVP, that he would "give it to Shaq every year".

Chronz
01-15-2013, 04:58 PM
How so?
Because I dont live in your box


He led the Bulls in stats, he also was the only allstar on the squad and beat every team in the league as well.
Led the bull in Stats? LMFAO thats suppose to tell me something? Forgive me but I dont take your statistical analysis very seriously, if at all.

Why would I care about being the only All-Star when it doesn't tell me anything about the overall quality of your support. Defense, depth, and coaching matters bro.

northsider
01-15-2013, 05:00 PM
That's exactly what I was saying at the time, and it seems that the credit to the defense and Thibs is now becoming unavoidable. They are both tremendous, and potentially more valuable to that team (the defense certainly is) than any one player. But Thibs and "Chicago's defense" can't win MVPs.

Rose had one of the weaker individual seasons any MVP has ever had. Does that make him an overrated winner? I don't think so. It just is what it is.

He wasn't the best player in the NBA, and he wasn't close. But he was the most invaluable player to the team with the greatest turnaround. For that reason, knowing how convoluted the MVP criteria can be, he was deserving in the end. I argued for Howard and LeBron all year, both of whom were better players, but treating the MVP award like the team-contingent award it is, Rose winning it ultimately became 100% fine with me. The Magic never quite got it going, and the Heat were a relative disappointment in many people's eye's.

Deserving winner; one of the 5 weakest individual MVP seasons.

It was def. more so Thibs defesnive coaching and mindset that changed the team cause him and Rose were pretty much the variables with that team and both got acknowledged rightfully so.

Thibs I believe was COY and Rose MVP. Rose brought the offense and Thibs installed a defensive mindset that players bought into fully and it has been amazing.

I def. admit I undersold Thibs and the defense a bit cause right now what he is doing with this team is pretty impressive to say the least. One things for sure and it's that our players buy into what Thibs is selling.

I also respect your response on how the award was treated cause I agree. I mean with what it ultimately stands for Rose IMO was a great candidate and a deserving one. No one was saying he put up the best statistical year but, I mean the guy was just outstanding for our team that needed that offensive beast to counter the defensive one and having a guy like Bogans as your SG wasn't exactly setting anything on fire lol.

Chronz
01-15-2013, 05:08 PM
So if he wasn't among those three you listed as the worst statistical season for a MVP then you just backed my claim up....
I have no idea if it is or isn't I would have to do more work than at a glance look at whatever numbers your implying but feel free to elaborate on what your talking about because Im completely lost now.



Yes I do but in my eyes he was the MVP(maybe cause I am a Bulls fan).
Then your not following me, its not about him being the MVP or not, we are already acknowledging the fact that he won the award, this is about stacking up his credentials vs LEAGUE HISTORY. Not just who he faced in winning the award, but almost exclusively how he fares vs OTHER MVP WINNERS.



He was the only player in the top 10 in assist and points and lead his team to the best overall record in the NBA with basically the same team the year before.
I know this is off topic but the team was the same but the reason for them winning was DRASTICALLY different. Their DEFENSE improved leaps and bounds more than their offense did, its why Thibs was COY. I dont see how that makes Rose the best case for MVP but I admit he was a worthy candidate overall, just like every other MVP winner was a worthy candidate. So telling me how worthy he was of the award does absolutely NOTHING to distinguish him in this type of questioning. EVERY MVP WINNER WAS WORTHY. So if your D-Rose, what else do you have going in your favor?

amos1er
01-15-2013, 05:19 PM
That's exactly what I was saying at the time, and it seems that the credit to the defense and Thibs is now becoming unavoidable. They are both tremendous, and potentially more valuable to that team (the defense certainly is) than any one player. But Thibs and "Chicago's defense" can't win MVPs.

Rose had one of the weaker individual seasons any MVP has ever had. Does that make him an overrated winner? I don't think so. It just is what it is.

He wasn't the best player in the NBA, and he wasn't close. But he was the most invaluable player to the team with the greatest turnaround. For that reason, knowing how convoluted the MVP criteria can be, he was deserving in the end. I argued for Howard and LeBron all year, both of whom were better players, but treating the MVP award like the team-contingent award it is, Rose winning it ultimately became 100% fine with me. The Magic never quite got it going, and the Heat were a relative disappointment in many people's eye's.

Deserving winner; one of the 5 weakest individual MVP seasons.

I agree that it's pretty hard to come up with an argument where someone is undeserving of the MVP award that they won, but I can come up with some alternative candidates who I could easily argue a great case as to being more deserving of the award.

northsider
01-15-2013, 05:21 PM
I have no idea if it is or isn't I would have to do more work than at a glance look at whatever numbers your implying but feel free to elaborate on what your talking about because Im completely lost now.


Then your not following me, its not about him being the MVP or not, we are already acknowledging the fact that he won the award, this is about stacking up his credentials vs LEAGUE HISTORY. Not just who he faced in winning the award, but almost exclusively how he fares vs OTHER MVP WINNERS.



I know this is off topic but the team was the same but the reason for them winning was DRASTICALLY different. Their DEFENSE improved leaps and bounds more than their offense did, its why Thibs was COY. I dont see how that makes Rose the best case for MVP but I admit he was a worthy candidate overall, just like every other MVP winner was a worthy candidate. So telling me how worthy he was of the award does absolutely NOTHING to distinguish him in this type of questioning. EVERY MVP WINNER WAS WORTHY. So what else do you have going in your favor


Always wondered what your obsession with Rose has been? Did the PSD forum Bulls fan over homerness really turn you that bitter towards him cause as usual you just come off as someone who loathes and any sort of success he accomplished.

Just a observation I made. As soon as this threat popped up I knew instantly you would be in here prob. down talking him. This isn't an attack at you but, I just always wondered what your obsession with him was. I mean are you mad at how much credit he got and how little the defensive turn around and Thibs got? The kid (I say that cause he was that young) had an amazing season and was the Bulls leader night in and out on the offensive side of things which everyone should admit wasn't nothing to glamour about outside of Rose and the occasional nights from other players. There were a ton of games we don't win without him and the late game heroics just really stick out.

I mean if you are looking for statically backing then of course there were guys who had better seasons but, I mean attributes and contribution wise he put up an MVP season IMHO.

Federal Reserve
01-15-2013, 05:30 PM
Rose was just in the right place at the right time. He was lucky to have gotten bailed out by his team's great defense, which helped create for him easy fast break points. People forget that Rose was chucking up 3 pointers and taking unbalanced shots that were detrimental to the team's success. He was very inefficient throughout his MVP season as well as overall career. Rose is the epitome of a street baller who sometimes tries to divert from what is his natural talent. By the end of his career, Rose will be shrouded by the shadows of Allen Iverson.

northsider
01-15-2013, 05:33 PM
Rose was just in the right place at the right time. He was lucky to have gotten bailed out by his team's great defense, which helped create for him easy fast break points. People forget that Rose was chucking up 3 pointers and taking unbalanced shots that were detrimental to the team's success. He was very inefficient throughout his MVP season as well as overall career. Rose is the epitome of a street baller who sometimes tries to divert from what is his natural talent. By the end of his career, Rose will be shrouded by the shadows of Allen Iverson.

Pretty much everything in this post is not only wrong but, makes me shiver at the amount of hate spewing out of the keys you tap away at.

Yes he was totally a down fall of that team. Stick to something else you actually know something about....whatever the hell that may be.

Chronz
01-15-2013, 05:41 PM
Always wondered what your obsession with Rose has been? Did the PSD forum Bulls fan over homerness really turn you that bitter towards him cause as usual you just come off as someone who loathes and any sort of success he accomplished.
What makes you think Im obsessed with Rose?


Just a observation I made. As soon as this threat popped up I knew instantly you would be in here prob. down talking him. This isn't an attack at you but, I just always wondered what your obsession with him was.
You know my personal stance on him, why would you expect anything different in a thread revolving around the topic of his MVP credentials? Isnt that the definition of insanity? And I posted in this thread because I saw people were casually dismissing the premise of this thread with logical fallacies.



I mean are you mad at how much credit he got and how little the defensive turn around and Thibs got? The kid (I say that cause he was that young) had an amazing season and was the Bulls leader night in and out on the offensive side of things which everyone should admit wasn't nothing to glamour about outside of Rose and the occasional nights from other players. There were a ton of games we don't win without him and the late game heroics just really stick out.
Mad isnt the right word but if thats what helps move this conversation forward then yes. And I wouldn't say it was Thibs necessarily, I do think he should get however much credit a coach deserves, Im just saying the reasons for the Bulls turn around were clear. Im sure you lose alot more games without Rose, but again, these are all strawman arguments that nobody ever denied.


I mean if you are looking for statically backing then of course there were guys who had better seasons but, I mean attributes and contribution wise he put up an MVP season IMHO.
Dear god man why is it so hard for people to understand the scope of my argument? EVERY MVP WINNER IN THE HISTORY OF TIME HAS PUT UP AN MVP SEASON.

What difference does it make?

StarvingKnick22
01-15-2013, 05:42 PM
Completely.

smiddy012
01-15-2013, 05:44 PM
This article has some great points. Rose was the best offensive player on a team that was the 15th best in that category. The Bulls defense that year was the main reason for their vast improvement (1st in points allowed per possession), and they were proven to be better in that category when Rose was on the bench. Thibs was the most responsible for the Bulls drastic improvement...not Rose. Sorry Bulls fans.



http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2011/03/dwight-howard-deserves-mvp-but-hes-long-shot-at-this-point.html

So please tell me, how was the Bulls offense without Rose in the game? What about the other side of the coin?

The fact that their defense improved without him isn't surprising at all, Watson was one of the better defending PGs in the league. That said, Mike James looked like Steve Nash compared to Watson when it came to running an offense. Watson didn't know how to distribute the ball well or create for others, so with a stagnant offense with Rose on the bench, the least the team could do is focus a little more on defense to make up for it.

ALSO, our second line was BETTER defensively than our first line statistically speaking, especially when you take into account that they were facing back-ups most of the time. And even if they weren't facing back-ups, Asik/Taj/Brewer/Korver/Watson was arguably (and probably) a better defensive group than Noah/Boozer/Deng/Bogans/Rose. So the fact that our defense improved with both team's back-ups out there, with Rose on the bench, says much much more about our second unit's defensive capabilities than it does about Rose's.


To those who claim that Thibbs was more of an influence than Rose, I will argue that they were both extremely vital to the #1 seed, and without either there is no way they were a top 4 seed in the East.

Take Thibbs away and we were still top ten in defense with our personnel (Noah, Taj, Asik, Deng, Brewer, Watson, Bogans anyone?). Take Rose away and we're easily one of the ten worse offenses in the league if not one of the five worse (we were 15th with him). The Bulls had to learn to adjust to Rose's absence over the past three seasons, and at first it was really ugly, anybody who followed the Bulls that season will attest to this. And don't forget that Noah and Boozer weren't at the offensive levels they are today due in large part to a lack of rhythm with their frequent injuries.

The Lebron argument for MVP that season is sour when you compare what he had to work with with what Rose had. Rose didn't have the second best player in the league (at the time) to work with. Rose didn't even have a Bosh level player to work with. Take Lebron away and they were still a top 4 seed no doubt. Meanwhile the only player Bull's opponents' defenses had to worry about was Rose. The way the Bulls consistently won in the regular season was: keep the game close the first three quarters with great defense, then let Rose turn it on in the fourth to solidify the lead. Outside of Korver or Deng hitting an outside shot, Rose completely carried that offense in the clutch. Boozer wasn't even in the game the last ten minutes if it were close.

Chronz
01-15-2013, 05:46 PM
Pretty much everything in this post is not only wrong but, makes me shiver at the amount of hate spewing out of the keys you tap away at.

Yes he was totally a down fall of that team. Stick to something else you actually know something about....whatever the hell that may be.
I dont see any similarities to what he and I said about Rose. So why are we both hating on him?

What he said was appalling on any level (scientific/emotional), both what can be quantified and what cant be measured are in disagreement with him.

To me that is the definition of Hate.


Yet you classify us the same. ... Time to get a new buzz word

Chronz
01-15-2013, 05:50 PM
So please tell me, how was the Bulls offense without Rose in the game? What about the other side of the coin?

The fact that their defense improved without him isn't surprising at all, Watson was one of the better defending PGs in the league. That said, Mike James looked like Steve Nash compared to Watson when it came to running an offense. Watson didn't know how to distribute the ball well or create for others, so with a stagnant offense with Rose on the bench, the least the team could do is focus a little more on defense to make up for it.

ALSO, our second line was BETTER defensively than our first line statistically speaking, especially when you take into account that they were facing back-ups most of the time. And even if they weren't facing back-ups, Asik/Taj/Brewer/Korver/Watson was arguably (and probably) a better defensive group than Noah/Boozer/Deng/Bogans/Rose. So the fact that our defense improved with both team's back-ups out there, with Rose on the bench, says much much more about our second unit's defensive capabilities than it does about Rose's.
All true, but it still speaks to your teams support level for Rose. He would sit and the team could play at an +.500 level. Its why I dont have CP3 as my MVP like most people seem to want.



Take Thibbs away and we were still top ten in defense with our personnel (Noah, Taj, Asik, Deng, Brewer, Watson, Bogans anyone?). Take Rose away and we're easily one of the ten worse offenses in the league if not one of the five worse (we were 15th with him). The Bulls had to learn to adjust to Rose's absence over the past three seasons, and at first it was really ugly, anybody who followed the Bulls that season will attest to this. And don't forget that Noah and Boozer weren't at the offensive levels they are today due in large part to a lack of rhythm with their frequent injuries.
If the overall sentiment is that OVERALL roster talent matters more than anything then we agree. Just not on the precise reasons why

el hidalgo
01-15-2013, 05:51 PM
IMO kobe's mvp over CP3 is the most overrated mvp ever. cp3 had a legendary season. he definitely deserved it. from a statistical standpoint, was rose's mvp overrated? sure, but i wouldnt say it is the worst mvp.

Chronz
01-15-2013, 05:56 PM
IMO kobe's mvp over CP3 is the most overrated mvp ever. cp3 had a legendary season. he definitely deserved it. from a statistical standpoint, was rose's mvp overrated? sure, but i wouldnt say it is the worst mvp.
In terms of his own competition for the award, I would have given it to KG.

northsider
01-15-2013, 05:59 PM
I dont see any similarities to what he and I said about Rose. So why are we both hating on him?

What he said was appalling on any level (scientific/emotional), both what can be quantified and what cant be measured are in disagreement with him.

To me that is the definition of Hate.


Yet you classify us the same. ... Time to get a new buzz word

You're right you are both completely different in what you were saying however just over time even when it wasn't the Rose/MVP discussion I felt like you always like to take shots at him. I could be wrong but, I always got that impression from you that you just really didn't like him and understandably so cause Bulls fans can make that quite hard.

I could be wrong but, I am just telling you the impression I always got from you on here. I also understand that people are getting the premise of the thread wrong however I think you are also giving the OP far to much credit as I think his intentions are far different then what you are chalking his question up too.

Chill_Will_24
01-15-2013, 06:10 PM
The Bulls did not find success until Tom Thibodeau became the coach.

This year without Rose they are still one of the best teams in the east. They do not have a higher seed because at times they cannot score and that is where Rose came in and also they lost some key pieces to their bench which is what won them a lot of games last year.

Hawkeye15
01-15-2013, 06:21 PM
yes, it was one of the weaker MVP seasons, but that is also due to circumstances. LeBron had just pissed off the world, Wade just got a sidekick, the other MVP contenders weren't as good of a story, which many times, is what the MVP is all about. I do think the Nash MVP's, and Iverson MVP were also weak years, and there are a couple back in the day that are suspect, but I wouldn't cry over Rose getting it. He had a great year, his team had the best record, and the world hated the best player on the planet.

ChicagoFan4Eva
01-15-2013, 06:23 PM
this is a bait thread.

Chill_Will_24
01-15-2013, 06:25 PM
How so? Nobody is baiting and we are 5 pages in. Maybe you need to take the homer glasses off.

TheSportMessiah
01-15-2013, 06:31 PM
he deserved it that year...unless you are a Bulls fans and watched pretty much every game or watched pretty much every game nonetheless you have nothing to talk about honestly. A lot of the things he did that year were insane and MVP'esque. There were a lot of times where it was like okay is this a one man offense or what...because he was just that dominant at times...especially down the stretch...to the Bulls he was the important thus the most valuable. Just look how they crumbled against 76ers last year without him and how this year they just have nowhere near the offensive punch.

ManRam
01-15-2013, 06:31 PM
The Lebron argument for MVP that season is sour when you compare what he had to work with with what Rose had. Rose didn't have the second best player in the league (at the time) to work with. Rose didn't even have a Bosh level player to work with. Take Lebron away and they were still a top 4 seed no doubt. Meanwhile the only player Bull's opponents' defenses had to worry about was Rose. The way the Bulls consistently won in the regular season was: keep the game close the first three quarters with great defense, then let Rose turn it on in the fourth to solidify the lead. Outside of Korver or Deng hitting an outside shot, Rose completely carried that offense in the clutch. Boozer wasn't even in the game the last ten minutes if it were close.

Best defense in the NBA/near historic defense is probably as valuable than a top 5 player.

I don't think you can prove the bolded.

The Bulls had far more depth.


I think the talent level after each respective team's best player, while drastically different, is amazingly equal.

ManRam
01-15-2013, 06:33 PM
he deserved it that year...unless you are a Bulls fans and watched pretty much every game or watched pretty much every game nonetheless you have nothing to talk about honestly. A lot of the things he did that year were insane and MVP'esque. There were a lot of times where it was like okay is this a one man offense or what...because he was just that dominant at times...especially down the stretch...to the Bulls he was the important thus the most valuable. Just look how they crumbled against 76ers last year without him and how this year they just have nowhere near the offensive punch.

Only Bulls fans, who definitely are not biased, have any right talking about Derrick Rose.

Got it!


I think it's this type of stuff, and the "this is a bait thread", that get people frustrated with Bulls fans. Rose is awesome, but he's not a god. It's OK to say somewhat critical things about him.

Alayla
01-16-2013, 01:05 AM
Yes, big time. He took an 8th seed to the best record in the east the following year. Big time overrated. Also, when he tore his acl.......his Bulls couldn't get past a Sixers team that many people can't name 2 players.

1 that says more about you then most people because im sure most people could seeing as 2 where former allstars
2 that bulls team all most beat us and not to mention they got the 1 seed without rose playing much of the season...

Alayla
01-16-2013, 01:06 AM
and yes there was no reason Rose deserved the MVP one of the silliest mvp giveaways in sports history

Alayla
01-16-2013, 01:09 AM
Rose was just in the right place at the right time. He was lucky to have gotten bailed out by his team's great defense, which helped create for him easy fast break points. People forget that Rose was chucking up 3 pointers and taking unbalanced shots that were detrimental to the team's success. He was very inefficient throughout his MVP season as well as overall career. Rose is the epitome of a street baller who sometimes tries to divert from what is his natural talent. By the end of his career, Rose will be shrouded by the shadows of Allen Iverson.

Not sure that statement is fair or well thought out most people allready would take rose over a prime Iverson building a team not that i argee with those people if anything Iverson will end up in his shadow.

Stuckey#3
01-16-2013, 01:19 AM
Title says it all, I like his game but to me he is underwhelming and Stern was looking to give it to someone else besides the usual, it looked like a good idea at the time to give to to D.Rose assuming he continued to play well but injury and lackluster Bulls performances in the playoffs, most dissapointing/overrated MVP ever?

Edit: I like D.Rose' game, I just do not like his off court persona but he is paid to play ball and nothing else, so this is not just hate. Just curious about where he is viewed by others.

Pointless thread. And yes you are a hater. STFU.

Stuckey#3
01-16-2013, 01:22 AM
You think that because you have 50000+ posts you can talk ****. At least JB and others have class.

LA_Raiders
01-16-2013, 02:30 AM
lol,

LA_Raiders
01-16-2013, 02:38 AM
Bulls are playing great ball...

ThaDubs
01-16-2013, 02:45 AM
The post season has nothing to do with regular season awards.
Plus he's humble as any basketball player you'll ever find, so Idk what you mean when you say you dislike his demeanor.

BULLSFAN0810
01-16-2013, 04:37 AM
overrated ? sounds like HATERS!!!! Rose hit buzzer beaters. AND TO MAKE IT BAD... LBJ WAS RUNNING FRoM GAME WINNERS AND ROSE , IN THE FOLLOWING GAME STEPPED UP AND KNOCK ONE DOWN AND SAID TO THE CAM " I DONOT RUN FROM PRESSURE" (SHOT AT LBJ?) The guy dominated his position that year. What else do you guys want ? To say an MVP is overrated is a diss to EVERYONE ELSE. By putting down Rose you put down the league . to say Rose year was not better than such and such is lame,its a cop out.....the only time the MVP award was weak was the years JORDAN PLAYED AND DIDNT WIN...think about it. STOP HATING ON ROSE...I PREDICT HE WILL TAKE OVER AS THE BEST IN THE GAME...(Remember i am not on the Melo band wagon ...i made the vehicle ..circa 2010...look it up)

sventhedog
01-16-2013, 04:43 AM
the bulls still expect rose to come back and be their franchise player so it's too early to make conclusions.

BULLSFAN0810
01-16-2013, 04:59 AM
From prior post thread read the middle paragragh ,now talk stats

Lionel Hollins takes shot at John Hollinger for trying to trade Rudy Gay

"The reality is that we have a very versatile small forward that is 6'9. There aren't many guys out there like that. He can post up, shoot from the perimeter [and] he can attack the basket. He defends LeBron James, he defendsKevin Durant and all these guys that are tall, and strong, and quick and athletic. We don't have another player on our rsoter with that versatility, and most teams don't. That's the bottom line."
You hear people say that Rudy and Zach can't play together and they don't fit. They do fit! They need each other. Zach needs Rudy'sversatility, and Rudy needs Zach to post up and get rebounds.

"We get hung up on statistics a little too much, and I think that's a bad trait all over the league that's taken place. And the media has done it because it's easy to go to the stats to make a point or to build up a player or tear down a player. Just the analyzing, I see it every time listening to talk show radio. You've got guys spouting off stat after stat after stat. The bottom line is going out and contributing to your team for winning."
"Analytics has a place. It can't be the be all end all. I'm still trying to figure out when the Oakland Athletics won a championship with all the analytics they have. It takes talent. We had a guy a few years ago that was sending me emails about different lineup combinations, and he was saying, 'this lineup should be on the court a lot more because they're the most effective.' So, then you coach that lineup and keep them on the floor for 40 minutes. I'm going to stay with the lineups that I have on the floor. No matter what anyone wants to say, there are players that get it done in the last six minutes, they're players that do it in the first quarter. When it comes down to big shots, there's only a few guys that will take those shots, want to take those shots, have the bravery and courage to take them. Because there's a lot of criticism when you miss a shot. You have to be mentally tough and courageous to take those shots at the end of the game."

el hidalgo
01-16-2013, 05:02 AM
Rose was just in the right place at the right time. He was lucky to have gotten bailed out by his team's great defense, which helped create for him easy fast break points. People forget that Rose was chucking up 3 pointers and taking unbalanced shots that were detrimental to the team's success. He was very inefficient throughout his MVP season as well as overall career. Rose is the epitome of a street baller who sometimes tries to divert from what is his natural talent. By the end of his career, Rose will be shrouded by the shadows of Allen Iverson.

:laugh2: absolutely hilarious. bravo