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View Full Version : Was Anthony Davis too hyped?



Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 02:47 AM
People including NBA executives were hyping this guy as potentially being the most dominant rookie since Duncan. Others were saying sure fire superstar. Others said he was a lock for ROY.

I mean no doubt this guy has all star potential and will be a monster for years to come but based on the overwhelming hype he got have you been impressed so far? Personally I feel the prime Camby/Chandler comparisons with a little more scoring are looking far more realistic than the prime KG comparisons at this point. Nothing about him looks "dominant" to me although anybody would love to have him on their team obviously.

Has he been everything you expected? Worse or better? Are you surprised Lilliard is clearly the best rookie when this guy was hyped as such an elite game changer?

BALLER R
01-12-2013, 02:57 AM
Thought he would stand out more to be honest

Cal827
01-12-2013, 03:01 AM
My views on him changed around a little b/c of the injuries.

So far though, I'm pretty impressed. He's looked good defensively and about 50% from a PF isn't too shabby. 13-8 with 1 steal and two blocks per game in 30 mins per game also pretty good. You also have to consider that Duncan went to an already good team that just sucked cause their star player was gone... and Robinson served as a great tutor to him.

I think that he can be something else in the end... but it'll take him a bit to max out.

Liliard has been something else... but I'm unsure if he has the same ceiling as Davis.

sixer04fan
01-12-2013, 03:03 AM
Way too early for this thread. Seriously.

But personally, I always thought of Davis as more of a Marcus Camby type, rather than the "next great thing" in the NBA. I haven't really gotten a chance to watch him play this year to be honest though. Statistically, he's doing well. And again, it's way too early to judge him either way. I did expect New Orleans to take a bigger jump than they have this year though, with him being the team's anchor. Hasn't happened yet.

But come on. The kid has barely played like 35 games in his career, and on a bad team at that. He was a freshman in college just last year, and hasn't had nearly as much time to adjust his game to his ridiculous growth spurt as most NBA big men have. And he's still doing pretty damn well.

Was he too hyped? No one can answer this question straight without a much larger body of work to evaluate. He hasn't even played half a season yet. Imagine trying to ask this question for an NFL player after he's played only 5-6 games through his rookie year. By scale, this is pretty much the same thing. There's no way anyone can seriously or accurately respond to this.

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 03:04 AM
My views on him changed around a little b/c of the injuries.

So far though, I'm pretty impressed. He's looked good defensively and about 50% from a PF isn't too shabby. 13-8 with 1 steal and two blocks per game in 30 mins per game also pretty good. You also have to consider that Duncan went to an already good team that just sucked cause their star player was gone... and Robinson served as a great tutor to him.

I think that he can be something else in the end... but it'll take him a bit to max out.

Sure but will he be the all time great and legend many swore he was is the question. I mean people were trying to say KG? I mean nothing, even in flashes with this guy screams dominant, HOF superstar like that. KG showed flashes his rookie year as did all other elite players.

I've seen games where I say wow Marcus Camby with better shooting and ball handling but nothing "dominant" about the guy IMO.

Utd7
01-12-2013, 03:05 AM
Too soon to tell.

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 03:05 AM
Way too early for this thread. Seriously.

But personally, I always thought of Davis as more of a Marcus Camby type, rather than the "next great thing" in the NBA. I haven't really gotten a chance to watch him play this year to be honest though. Statistically, he's doing well. And again, it's way too early to judge him either way. I did expect New Orleans to take a bigger jump than they have this year though, with him being the team's anchor. Hasn't happened yet.

But come on. The kid has barely played like 35 games in his career, and on a bad team at that. He was a freshman in college just last year, and hasn't had nearly as much time to adjust his game to his ridiculous growth spurt as most NBA big men have. And he's still doing pretty damn well.

Was he too hyped? No one can answer this question straight without a much larger body of work to evaluate. He hasn't even played half a season yet. Imagine trying to ask this question for an NFL player after he's played only 5-6 games through his rookie year. By scale, this is pretty much the same thing. There's no way anyone can seriously or accurately respond to this.

After 35 games Duncan, Griffin, Lebron, CP3 and other recent dominant rookies were already looking like bonafide all stars on bad teams (outside of Duncan who had a good squad). All rookies pretty much come to bad teams and get a chance to stuff the stats so that excuse isn't logical.

Crackadalic
01-12-2013, 03:06 AM
Maybe a little but when you actually see him play you can see why he gets the hype. For someone who used to be a pg and suddenly becoming tall he's defense is well above average. His timing at his age is actually really good especially when you see a lot of young players play defense with there athleticism but lack the bbiq and understanding on fundamental defense.

NateyB24
01-12-2013, 03:12 AM
Was he supposed to be a Star? I just thought he was a good all around player in College.

meloman1592
01-12-2013, 03:15 AM
never saw super star potential in him...I remember people comparing him to KG and Duncan and i was like -_-

Marcus Camby with a more refined offensive game...i think that's fair

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 03:16 AM
Was he supposed to be a Star? I just thought he was a good all around player in College.

Many analysts were saying this is a once every decade or two player who could immediately lift a franchise off the ground.

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 03:17 AM
never saw super star potential in him...I remember people comparing him to KG and Duncan and i was like -_-

Marcus Camby with a more refined offensive game...i think that's fair

100 percent agree and yes people were saying Duncan/KG.. :facepalm:

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 03:17 AM
Maybe a little but when you actually see him play you can see why he gets the hype. For someone who used to be a pg and suddenly becoming tall he's defense is well above average. His timing at his age is actually really good especially when you see a lot of young players play defense with there athleticism but lack the bbiq and understanding on fundamental defense.

:speechless: you still post on these boards?

sep11ie
01-12-2013, 03:23 AM
Only time will tell. Another terrific thread...

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 03:24 AM
Before the injury his advanced line was off the charts. The kid actually is excelling at all the little things people thought he would at his position (general awareness and BBIQ, free throws, shot blocking). He's going to be scary good imo. He'll never be a Duncan type because he doesn't have the bulk/strength to play C the way that Timmy could.

He's already having a better rookie year than KG's anyways, so at least that comparison is still intact.


Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Anthony Davis 2012-13 19 22 18 30.1 5.3 10.8 .492 0.0 0.2 .000 2.7 3.5 .769 2.7 5.4 8.1 0.6 1.1 1.9 1.5 2.2 13.4
2 Kevin Garnett 1995-96 19 80 43 28.7 4.5 9.2 .491 0.1 0.4 .286 1.3 1.9 .705 2.2 4.1 6.3 1.8 1.1 1.6 1.4 2.4 10.4


Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1 Anthony Davis 2012-13 19 22 663 19.8 .540 .492 10.4 21.5 15.9 3.6 2.1 5.2 11.1 21.9 107 103 0.9 0.8 1.7 .125
2 Kevin Garnett 1995-96 19 80 2293 15.8 .522 .497 9.1 17.0 13.1 10.6 1.9 4.4 12.1 17.6 107 107 1.8 2.6 4.4 .092

sixer04fan
01-12-2013, 03:25 AM
Way too early for this thread. Seriously.

But personally, I always thought of Davis as more of a Marcus Camby type, rather than the "next great thing" in the NBA. I haven't really gotten a chance to watch him play this year to be honest though. Statistically, he's doing well. And again, it's way too early to judge him either way. I did expect New Orleans to take a bigger jump than they have this year though, with him being the team's anchor. Hasn't happened yet.

But come on. The kid has barely played like 35 games in his career, and on a bad team at that. He was a freshman in college just last year, and hasn't had nearly as much time to adjust his game to his ridiculous growth spurt as most NBA big men have. And he's still doing pretty damn well.

Was he too hyped? No one can answer this question straight without a much larger body of work to evaluate. He hasn't even played half a season yet. Imagine trying to ask this question for an NFL player after he's played only 5-6 games through his rookie year. By scale, this is pretty much the same thing. There's no way anyone can seriously or accurately respond to this.

After 35 games Duncan, Griffin, Lebron, CP3 and other recent dominant rookies were already looking like bonafide all stars on bad teams (outside of Duncan who had a good squad). All rookies pretty much come to bad teams and get a chance to stuff the stats so that excuse isn't logical.

Some rookies are more NBA-ready in the immediate than others. And that has nothing to do with their overall hype/potential. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp...

If you're going to judge a 19 year old who only played one year in college after 35 games, and attempt to declare if he is or is not going to meet the expectations/hype, than you're the one who isn't being logical.

Two years ago this kid was playing against 6'5" 170lb 17 year olds. He was lifting weights at a high school level. Now he's playing against 7' 300lb 30 year old men who have been playing pro basketball for years. Guys who have been working out under a professional program with professional coaches and trainers for a long time. He's 19 years old and is 35ish games removed from being a freshman in college.

It's not an illogical excuse. It's a totally legitimate part of the discussion. It's way too early to even talk about this because no one has any idea.

UPRock
01-12-2013, 03:25 AM
Too soon to tell, I still think he's going to be a top 5 PF.

JeffG20
01-12-2013, 03:26 AM
guy definatly has star potenial... if you watched every game you'd see it. he just needs to bulk up a little over the next year or so and things will work out themselves on their own. Monty also likes going with the "hot Hand" in many games hence the lack of minutes as of late.

his offensive game is way ahead of what many projected. all he needs is some bulking up and conditioning and he'll be fine

Alayla
01-12-2013, 03:27 AM
never saw super star potential in him...I remember people comparing him to KG and Duncan and i was like -_-

Marcus Camby with a more refined offensive game...i think that's fair

Yup agreed Ive felt from the beginning that he was getting a little too much love that being said he is still a fantastic basketball player

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 03:28 AM
Many analysts were saying this is a once every decade or two player who could immediately lift a franchise off the ground.

Many? I remember most calling him and instant game-changer and a turn your franchise around "talent." Shoots even the biggest AD dick riders on this board were saying that he needed a couple of years to work out the kinks in his offense.

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 03:30 AM
Some rookies are more NBA-ready in the immediate than others. And that has nothing to do with their overall hype/potential. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp...

If you're going to judge a 19 year old who only played one year in college after 35 games, and attempt to declare if he is or is not going to meet the expectations/hype, than you're the one who isn't being logical.

Two years ago this kid was playing against 6'5" 170lb 17 year olds. He was lifting weights at a high school level. Now he's playing against 7' 300lb 30 year old men who have been playing pro basketball for years. Guys who have been working out under a professional program with professional coaches and trainers for a long time. He's 19 years old and is 35ish games removed from being a freshman in college.

It's not an illogical excuse. It's a totally legitimate part of the discussion. It's way too early to even talk about this because no one has any idea.

Again all college players transitioning to the pros have to deal with the difference in the strength and athleticism of NBA players. I'm all for giving the guy time to develop. I personally feel all players deserve 3-4 full seasons to show what they got before getting labeled or judged harshly. Thing is I'm not doing that. I'm merely mentioning just how hyped Davis was compared to what we have seen so far.

I think he's a very high upside player who will be a perennial all star but the hype was WAY too much for as much as he's produced. When you have analysts saying this kid was a bonafide superstar, franchise player and would immediately lift the Hornets? I mean I just don't see it yet.

JeffG20
01-12-2013, 03:31 AM
anyones thats watched most of the games knows he can ball, this feels like an assumption made after 1 or 2 bad games

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 03:33 AM
anyones thats watched most of the games knows he can ball, this feels like an assumption made after 1 or 2 bad games

No. It's based on what I mentioned in the OP. Overall impact+production to hype ratio. I personally love Davis' game and think he will be an all star for years to come eventually. You'd think he would be getting more buzz though right? Putting up better numbers. Remember the hype recent great rookies like I mentioned got? Melo, Lebron, CP3, Griffin etc.. all got a ton of buzz and headlines. Even Durant who isn't really an all time great rookie got a ton of coverage compared to this.

DListheTRUTH
01-12-2013, 03:33 AM
You must've forgot that Duncan went to Wake for 4 years and Blake went to OU for 2 and sat out another year because of his knee. Also a big man's frame doesn't fill in before they turn 20. KG and Dwight had similar rookie years being that young as well. You gotta give the kid time to develop.

Raps08-09 Champ
01-12-2013, 03:35 AM
He's been injured, but he's posting up legit numbers.

JeffG20
01-12-2013, 03:38 AM
No. It's based on what I mentioned in the OP. Overall impact+production to hype ratio. I personally love Davis' game and think he will be an all star for years to come eventually. You'd think he would be getting more buzz though right? Putting up better numbers. Remember the hype recent great rookies like I mentioned got? Melo, Lebron, CP3, Griffin etc.. all got a ton of buzz and headlights. Even Durant who isn't really an all time great rookie got a ton of coverage compared to this.

you also have to take into account this is New Orleans, not LA. so the hype naturally wont be there if he wasent playing for a top team. Chris Paul wasent getting any attention his first year. he's putting up good numbers, maybe not what he was hyped for. not really his fault though.

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 03:39 AM
No. It's based on what I mentioned in the OP. Overall impact+production to hype ratio. I personally love Davis' game and think he will be an all star for years to come eventually. You'd think he would be getting more buzz though right? Putting up better numbers. Remember the hype recent great rookies like I mentioned got? Melo, Lebron, CP3, Griffin etc.. all got a ton of buzz and headlines. Even Durant who isn't really an all time great rookie got a ton of coverage compared to this.

Melo and LeBron were part of the best drafting class in the 20K era, Cp3 had the best rookie campaign in the 20K era, and Griffin plays in LA and is a highlight reel. Durant had the whole "should have been a #1 but was bumped to 2nd by an injury prone C." Davis just doesn't have an exciting story-line. Unless you want to talk about his eyebrow all day. :shrug:

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 03:40 AM
You must've forgot that Duncan went to Wake for 4 years and Blake went to OU for 2 and sat out another year because of his knee. Also a big man's fame doesn't fill in before they turn 20. KG and Dwight had similar rookie years being that young as well. You gotta give the kid time to develop.

KG also wasn't coming off the NCAA national championship in which he won MVP. I don't remember KG getting the hype Davis did either, correct me if I'm wrong. Also Griffin played one extra year but is by many considered to have the inferior skillset to Davis and be a far more raw player so how did he put up 22.5/12/4 as a rookie?

Dwight and KG no doubt took time to fill in a bit and get going but both came right out of high school where they were playing against significantly worse competition than Davis did at Kentucky. I understand the age is very close but 1 year of college against bigger and WAY better players vs playing against HS kids, right to the pros? Was a far bigger adjustment for KG+Dwight.

sixer04fan
01-12-2013, 03:45 AM
Again all college players transitioning to the pros have to deal with the difference in the strength and athleticism of NBA players. I'm all for giving the guy time to develop. I personally feel all players deserve 3-4 full seasons to show what they got before getting labeled or judged harshly. Thing is I'm not doing that. I'm merely mentioning just how hyped Davis was compared to what we have seen so far.

I think he's a very high upside player who will be a perennial all star but the hype was WAY too much for as much as he's produced. When you have analysts saying this kid was a bonafide superstar, franchise player and would immediately lift the Hornets? I mean I just don't see it yet.

For the record, I think we're in agreement more than we're not here. I didn't/don't think he's a true superstar kind of player. Like you/others have said, I see perennial allstar potential with a Marcus Camby type game, but with better offensive ability. By my expectations, he's been fine so far.

My main point is that it's just to early to have this conversation with any sort of conclusions or accuracy, regardless of how good anyone here or the media thought he would be. That's all I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to defend Davis or say that he's going to be an all time great by any stretch.

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 03:49 AM
For the record, I think we're in agreement more than we're not here. I didn't/don't think he's a true superstar kind of player. Like you/others have said, I see perennial allstar potential with a Marcus Camby type game, but with better offensive ability. By my expectations, he's been fine so far.

My main point is that it's just to early to have this conversation with any sort of conclusions or accuracy, regardless of how good anyone here or the media thought he would be. That's all I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to defend Davis or say that he's going to be an all time great by any stretch.

Okay cool, I definitely agree and much like you implied there isn't much to argue here. Most of us seem on the same page regarding where he is and will be. I wish I could find video of the pre draft guys though saying this guy was a SUPERSTAR and would dominate right away though. Would be the next rookie Duncan etc. Probably some of those BSPN guys :facepalm:.

kntresistheheat
01-12-2013, 03:58 AM
Well, I tell you what ESPN forgot about him because they never show any highlight of him unless its about his eyebrows.

ThaDubs
01-12-2013, 04:00 AM
He's got great PER for a rookie, but he's not gonna put up 37 points anytime soon.

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 04:01 AM
Well, I tell you what ESPN forgot about him because they never show any highlight of him unless its about his eyebrows.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=anthony+davis+ugly&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&tbm=isch&tbnid=dpNyhhk0ccNt4M:&imgrefurl=http://barstoolu.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/anthony-davis-trademarks-his-unibrow/&docid=i1AWhk-Apvh1rM&imgurl=http://www.barstoolu.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/256008-davis.jpg&w=430&h=313&ei=SRjxUOafFeb6igLv2oGICg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=263&vpy=125&dur=802&hovh=191&hovw=263&tx=129&ty=107&sig=116362827249041842110&page=1&tbnh=132&tbnw=193&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:87&biw=1366&bih=643

Look at how handsome he is now.

Lucky Junior
01-12-2013, 04:04 AM
I don't know how to search these forums but I got blasted big time for saying that he was being overrated. The two guys I loved from this class are Barnes and Perry. For them to get taken where they did is just ridiculous value. And if Perry can stay healthy and transition to the 5. I think both of them could end up being better than Davis long term.

I should probably add that part of that is because of Davis' lower body scares me. He just has injury written all over him.

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 04:05 AM
I don't know how to search these forums but I got blasted big time for saying that he was being overrated. The two guys I loved from this class are Barnes and Perry. For them to get taken where they did is just ridiculous value. And if Perry can stay healthy and transition to the 5. I think both of them could end up being better than Davis long term.

I should probably add that part of that is because of Davis' lower body scares me. He just has injury written all over him.

Hasn't he been injured 3 times already? Concussion, sprained ankle and what else?

ThaDubs
01-12-2013, 04:07 AM
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=anthony+davis+ugly&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&tbm=isch&tbnid=dpNyhhk0ccNt4M:&imgrefurl=http://barstoolu.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/anthony-davis-trademarks-his-unibrow/&docid=i1AWhk-Apvh1rM&imgurl=http://www.barstoolu.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/256008-davis.jpg&w=430&h=313&ei=SRjxUOafFeb6igLv2oGICg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=263&vpy=125&dur=802&hovh=191&hovw=263&tx=129&ty=107&sig=116362827249041842110&page=1&tbnh=132&tbnw=193&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:87&biw=1366&bih=643

Look at how handsome he is now.

That's ****ing disgusting.

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 04:08 AM
That's ****ing disgusting.

Not even kidding... I showed it to my GF right now but zoomed in and she jumped and said eww. :laugh::laugh:

JeffG20
01-12-2013, 04:08 AM
Hasn't he been injured 3 times already? Concussion, sprained ankle and what else?

the concussion was a freak accident because clumsy *** rivers is an idiot. cant hold that one against him lol.

the ankle situation was mostly precautionary because we didnt want another Gordon situation

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 04:10 AM
the concussion was a freak accident because clumsy *** rivers is an idiot. cant hold that one against him lol.

the ankle situation was mostly precautionary because we didnt want another Gordon situation

Oh okay. Then he had a stress reaction after the actual sprain right? BTW didn't realize you were a Hornets fan at first. Hornets are like my second team. Love their core group of players and Monty. I actually thought they might steal a playoff seed this year but with the injuries to Gordon+Davis, no way in hell.

JeffG20
01-12-2013, 04:12 AM
Bingo, thats exactly what it was.

slow start killed us and we are playing our way out of the lottery right now. oh well

ATX
01-12-2013, 04:14 AM
I feel bad for saying this, but **** if your not going to shave that thing, at least get some damn braces while you have the money.

JeffG20
01-12-2013, 04:16 AM
I feel bad for saying this, but **** if your not going to shave that thing, at least get some damn braces while you have the money.

he trademarked the damn thing, its actually genius from a business standpoint :laugh2:

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 04:16 AM
Bingo, thats exactly what it was.

slow start killed us and we are playing our way out of the lottery right now. oh well

You guys are going to get into that no man's zone where you aren't good enough for the playoffs but not bad enough for the high lotto. A core of Vasquez, Gordon, Aminu, Anderson and Davis though is very respectable to start. Not to mention you have a very good defensive coach. If only Aminu had a brain. I'm not sure what you think about Aminu but he always reminded me of Scarecrow from Wizard of Oz.

Just so low IQ sometimes that you are left wondering WTF just happened. He's a freak specimen with the 7'4 wingspan (he's basically got Durant's body) but the lack of IQ and how easily he gets shook is astounding. After 1 or 2 missed shots he hangs his head and doesn't contribute **** the rest of the game. Basically only thing I liked about him was his freak tip dunks, occasional blocks and rebounds.

Does this still describe Aminu or has he been solid for you guys?

ATX
01-12-2013, 04:23 AM
he trademarked the damn thing, its actually genius from a business standpoint :laugh2:

Haha, ya I came around to that realization, but the teeth man, the teeth...I don't think trademarking that trap will work. He can keep the brow, but please just deal with the braces and fix it.

JeffG20
01-12-2013, 04:23 AM
you nailed aminu to a tee.... he's so frustrating to watch because one night he'll give you 13 and 11 and then be a ghost the next. i think benching him flipped a switch though. dudes always been a freak rebounder and now is offensive game is starting to shine. didnt pick up his option though. he may or may not be back. rooting for the kid wherever he goes. i hope we can keep him as monty brings out the best in him

krisxsong
01-12-2013, 04:23 AM
Not overhyped. Everybody with a brain knew he would be very raw coming outta college and would take some time to make an impact at the NBA level.

JeffG20
01-12-2013, 04:23 AM
Haha, ya I came around to that realization, but the teeth man, the teeth...I don't think trademarking that trap will work. He can keep the brow, but please just deal with the braces and fix it.

agreed

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 04:24 AM
Haha, ya I came around to that realization, but the teeth man, the teeth...I don't think trademarking that trap will work. He can keep the brow, but please just deal with the braces and fix it.

http://preview.turbosquid.com/Preview/2010/12/09__01_44_00/Bear-Trap-View.jpg19ed24f3-b629-4a5b-8ed1-5cd8512d9bc2Larger.jpg

ATX
01-12-2013, 04:26 AM
Not overhyped. Everybody with a brain knew he would be very raw coming outta college and would take some time to make an impact at the NBA level.

And to the point of thread, I would agree with this.^^

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 04:27 AM
you nailed aminu to a tee.... he's so frustrating to watch because one night he'll give you 13 and 11 and then be a ghost the next. i think benching him flipped a switch though. dudes always been a freak rebounder and now is offensive game is starting to shine. didnt pick up his option though. he may or may not be back. rooting for the kid wherever he goes. i hope we can keep him as monty brings out the best in him

Oh.. forgot you guys purposely didn't take his option. Yea man he's basically a mentally broken freak specimen IMO. People don't seem to realize the mental fortitude it takes to be a star in a pro sport. Without confidence, focus and heart... you can have all the talent in the world and still fall short.

ATX
01-12-2013, 04:27 AM
http://preview.turbosquid.com/Preview/2010/12/09__01_44_00/Bear-Trap-View.jpg19ed24f3-b629-4a5b-8ed1-5cd8512d9bc2Larger.jpg

Nice! :laugh2:

Lucky Junior
01-12-2013, 04:43 AM
Hasn't he been injured 3 times already? Concussion, sprained ankle and what else?

Not 100% sure. I haven't been able to watch as much Hornets ball as I like since I didn't buy the League Pass like I normally do. I just don't like his body type. Watched him a lot in college and he just seems too damn skinny to hold up.

I like his talent, just not his knees. He loses his athleticism and I think he's going to be underwhelming. Hopefully I'm wrong though. Hopefully Oden recovers, signs with the Hornets, and we get to see the uglier more injury prone squeal to the Twin Towers.

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 04:46 AM
Honestly Oden would be a superb fit for Monty's system. Teams wouldn't score inside on that duo. They would just look at driving players and force turnovers with those sexy faces.

JeffG20
01-12-2013, 05:03 AM
too bad our Medical staff is on par with Portlands :(

sammyvine
01-12-2013, 05:15 AM
Doesn't the op hate Davis lol?

Anyway way too early to tell. Plus he is on a bad team. Griffin wouldn't look as good if it wasn't for cp3 simply because clippers wouldn't win as much games and the opposing team will only have griffin to worry about instead of cp3 as well.

JeffG20
01-12-2013, 05:16 AM
Doesn't the op hate Davis lol?

Anyway way too early to tell. Plus he is on a bad team. Griffin wouldn't look as good if it wasn't for cp3 simply because clippers wouldn't win as much games and the opposing team will only have griffin to worry about instead of cp3 as well.

Griffin did fine without CP

sammyvine
01-12-2013, 05:21 AM
Griffin did fine without CP

How many games did the clippers win?

He is a great dunker and that's about it. I don't get why people always put him in the Duncan/KG class. He wi never be on the level of those two.

JeffG20
01-12-2013, 05:35 AM
How many games did the clippers win?

He is a great dunker and that's about it. I don't get why people always put him in the Duncan/KG class. He wi never be on the level of those two.

its a team sport

JeffG20
01-12-2013, 05:37 AM
i dont think he's quite on that level but the squad with just Griffin was nowhere near what it is with now.

hell Paul Pierce had some down years untill trhey got players around him and thats the case with 99% of players

Heediot
01-12-2013, 06:07 AM
After 35 games Duncan, Griffin, Lebron, CP3 and other recent dominant rookies were already looking like bonafide all stars on bad teams (outside of Duncan who had a good squad). All rookies pretty much come to bad teams and get a chance to stuff the stats so that excuse isn't logical.


Aside from LeBron who was a younger rookie, if you compare Davis to the others mentioned you should compare them in relation to age. Griffin and Paul were probably a year older as rookies and Duncan probably 3 years older.

His PER for a rookie is solid even for a top pick. His defense is very good for a young player.

Gators123
01-12-2013, 09:40 AM
I'm not even sure Anthony Davis has been the best AD from this draft ;)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=davisan02&y1=2013&p2=drumman01&y2=2013

cleptopot
01-12-2013, 09:48 AM
Way too early to tell. I still think he will have an amazing kg like career. Be a future great and hall of fame type player

da ThRONe
01-12-2013, 09:52 AM
Being a NOLA fan I watch him every game and he isn't worth the hype. He's shown little to no flash of a guy who can create his on shot and his post and perimeter defense is subpar. While he's a good athlete his lateral movement isn't anything special.

He should be a good player, but I saw nothing before the draft that would lead me to believe he's special and I've saw nothing since he's been in the league to think otherwise.

Fired-Up
01-12-2013, 09:53 AM
It's difficult to say. Right now it's just too early to critique his game. He is only 19 with just 1 year of college experience. Kevin Garnett wasn't that good his rookie year either. And neither was he in his sophomore year. It's just really hard to dominate as a teenager in the NBA. For whatever reason it is. It's a combination of not having the game of more experienced players. But also not having the athleticism either. He just needs time.

the brave eagle
01-12-2013, 10:44 AM
i would say rivers is a bigger bust so for then davis

Sly Guy
01-12-2013, 11:36 AM
I always thought he was overhyped as well. He's got talent, for a guy his size, he moves really well, but he's also lacking in some areas as well. He's not rangy, and his hands are tiny.

nolafan33
01-12-2013, 11:48 AM
Monty Williams said they weren't going to put too much pressure on him offensively and that has held true. He has honestly been a afterthought offensively, either he's running the pick and roll or he's standing under the rim, that's it.

If he was on a team that cared more about getting another high pick he would be averaging 18 ppg, but the Hornets are trying to win so there are a few offensive options ahead of him, where as on other teams he would be the first or second guy.

They've also worked him along slowly because of injuries. Concussion, foot, wrist.

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 02:12 PM
Being a NOLA fan I watch him every game and he isn't worth the hype. He's shown little to no flash of a guy who can create his on shot and his post and perimeter defense is subpar. While he's a good athlete his lateral movement isn't anything special.

He should be a good player, but I saw nothing before the draft that would lead me to believe he's special and I've saw nothing since he's been in the league to think otherwise.

Dang dat brutal honesty :clap:.

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 02:17 PM
Dang dat brutal honesty :clap:.

Or bias. :eyebrow:

rocket
01-12-2013, 02:30 PM
Drum>>

Chronz
01-12-2013, 02:37 PM
Is he doing something wrong?

flea
01-12-2013, 02:39 PM
It's been an injury-riddled first year so far. Hard to judge on that. Additionally, 2 of his better assets take time to develop. He's blocking shots and rebounding like everyone knew he would, but he was drafted number 1 because of his offensive and defensive ceilings - not where he's at now. He's a very good offensive player who hasn't really had an offense run through him since becoming a center. I'd be very surprised if he's not a 20 or 25 PPG player in his prime. Additionally, post defense in the NBA is not something you learn overnight or can rely solely on athleticism for (well, unless you're Dwight maybe). He was also drafted so highly because of his basketball IQ.

If injuries don't hurt him, he'll still probably be a top 3 big man in the league during his prime. I've seen nothing in half a season so far to indicate otherwise. He was never going to be an immediate impact player.

da ThRONe
01-12-2013, 02:43 PM
Or bias. :eyebrow:

I've been accused of being bias before. However pretty much all his production is available. Watch him yourself the overwhelming majority of his stats are based off of others production.

As far as his defensives woes you have to watch a Hornets game. Great shot blocker and he'll most likely get better in the post as he grows stronger.

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 02:44 PM
I've been accused of being bias before. However pretty much all his production is available. Watch him yourself the overwhelming majority of his stats are based off of others production.

As far as his defensives woes you have to watch a Hornets game. Great shot blocker and he'll most likely get better in the post as he grows stronger.

Proof?

Jeff559
01-12-2013, 02:52 PM
He is playing at about the level that was expected of him. Even with the hype, people still acknowledged his need for growth on the offensive end. He is playing well defensively, pulling boards, and will be a stud in the years to come.

da ThRONe
01-12-2013, 03:23 PM
Proof?

Look at the % of his assisted baskets.

THE MTL
01-12-2013, 03:37 PM
I dnt think he was too hyped at all. His numbers are excellent for a rookie. The only problem have been the injuries thus far.

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 03:40 PM
I dnt think he was too hyped at all. His numbers are excellent for a rookie. The only problem have been the injuries thus far.

So you think he's been the most dominant game changing rookie since Duncan? Will be a superstar who will turn New Orleans around within a couple years? Be on par with prime KG/Duncan eventually? Because that's a lot of the noise that was going around about Davis.

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 03:40 PM
Look at the % of his assisted baskets.

Scoring is only one stat.

NBA_Starter
01-12-2013, 03:48 PM
I think he still may be hurt, he has def been disappointing so far.

da ThRONe
01-12-2013, 03:53 PM
Scoring is only one stat.

Even his rebounding numbers at times are inflated. Monty usually has everybody boxing out while Davis picks up a lot of easy defensive rebounds. Really that's a good idea, but inflates his numbers non the less. Now that AFA is playing his rebounding stats has gone down. Davis is a good rebounder, but it's very consistent.

While scoring is just "one stat" you can't be a franchise changing player without the ability to create for yourself.

Chronz
01-12-2013, 04:18 PM
I've been accused of being bias before. However pretty much all his production is available. Watch him yourself the overwhelming majority of his stats are based off of others production.
Is that suppose to be a bad thing tho? He still has to make the shot too



As far as his defensives woes you have to watch a Hornets game. Great shot blocker and he'll most likely get better in the post as he grows stronger.
I havent seen much of him but I remember Duncan taking him to school in the pivot, remember thinking he will learn the crafty tricks soon enough. Took DJ alot of time.

Chronz
01-12-2013, 04:19 PM
Look at the % of his assisted baskets.

Is it that different than league average?

da ThRONe
01-12-2013, 04:27 PM
Is that suppose to be a bad thing tho? He still has to make the shot too


I havent seen much of him but I remember Duncan taking him to school in the pivot, remember thinking he will learn the crafty tricks soon enough. Took DJ alot of time.

He'll most likely be a good player just not an elite player IMO. So to answer your question ofcourse making a basket is better than missing however superstar create points they aren't forced to rely on other players. It's early and a lot can change. I'm just talking about what I see.

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 04:40 PM
Even his rebounding numbers at times are inflated. Monty usually has everybody boxing out while Davis picks up a lot of easy defensive rebounds. Really that's a good idea, but inflates his numbers non the less. Now that AFA is playing his rebounding stats has gone down. Davis is a good rebounder, but it's very consistent.

While scoring is just "one stat" you can't be a franchise changing player without the ability to create for yourself.

Before 2011 Dwight Howard's shot creation ability wasn't anything special, and there are "empty rebounds" but Davis is such a great offensive rebounder (in addition the being the best rebounder on the team) I'm sure he's getting his share of those that count. Consistency is also a good thing btw.

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 04:41 PM
No offense daThrone, but I just saw you say Rudy Gay has "superstar" potential, I think you place too much value on shot creation.

da ThRONe
01-12-2013, 04:51 PM
Before 2011 Dwight Howard's shot creation ability wasn't anything special, and there are "empty rebounds" but Davis is such a great offensive rebounder (in addition the being the best rebounder on the team) I'm sure he's getting his share of those that count. Consistency is also a good thing btw.

Inconsistent. My fault.

Howard was better creating than Davis coming out of high school. For someone tag as a big with guard skills Davis should be able to beat guy off the dribble and I just don't see him doing so. He made one good off the dribble move all season.

da ThRONe
01-12-2013, 04:53 PM
No offense daThrone, but I just saw you say Rudy Gay has "superstar" potential, I think you place too much value on shot creation.

None taken. Gay has superstar potential. Not sure why that's something to agrue but if you disagree you are entitled to do so.

sammyvine
01-12-2013, 04:55 PM
So you think he's been the most dominant game changing rookie since Duncan? Will be a superstar who will turn New Orleans around within a couple years? Be on par with prime KG/Duncan eventually? Because that's a lot of the noise that was going around about Davis.

well we don't know do we? what did you expect? Davis to have monster stats an lead the hornets to the play offs in his 1st season?

he may end up in that tier with Duncan and Garnett, or he could fall way short and end up a marcus camby like player. I personally think he will be at the Chris Bosh level, or maybe slightly better, basically a perennial all star and a top 15 player. I don't see him being a top 10 player of all time like Duncan.
the point is, its hard to knock a rookie in his 1st year. players peak at different times.
Most people thought Westbrook was a bust or Derrick Williams should have went ahead of Kyrie Irving. Sometimes we get things wrong.

your agenda is pretty clear. your not a fan of davis and you see him as a threat to your boy blake griffin.

DeyAce
01-12-2013, 04:59 PM
That whole Kentucky squad were only good college players

da ThRONe
01-12-2013, 05:01 PM
well we don't know do we? what did you expect? Davis to have monster stats an lead the hornets to the play offs in his 1st season?

he may end up in that tier, or he could fall way short and end up a marcus camby like player.
the point is, its hard to knock a rookie in his 1st year. players peak at different times.

your agenda is pretty clear. your not a fan of davis and you see him as a threat to your boy blake griffin.

Hey I'll be the first person stressing "the wait and see" approach. However you can have a feel for a rookie. Especially considering Davis has gotten the mins and the green light to do his thing unlike most of the rookies this year.

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 05:13 PM
Inconsistent. My fault.

Howard was better creating than Davis coming out of high school. For someone tag as a big with guard skills Davis should be able to beat guy off the dribble and I just don't see him doing so. He made one good off the dribble move all season.

Point is, the kid can improve. His offensive game is far ahead of where most actually thought it would be. Everyone kept comparing him to KG, well guess what he's playing better as a rookie than KG was when he was a rookie. In fact before the injury he was on pace to have one of the greatest rookie campaigns in the since the 2000s, now he'll just have to settle for the 5 or 6th best. He stacks up pretty well to Dwight as well.




2012-13 19 NOH NBA PF 23 686 19.4 .543 .496 10.1 20.8 15.4 3.4 2.0 5.0 11.1 21.7 107 104 0.9 0.8 1.8 .123
2004-05 19 ORL NBA PF 82 2670 17.2 .571 .520 12.2 22.2 17.3 4.4 1.5 3.6 16.1 16.7 111 104 3.8 3.5 7.3 .131


None taken. Gay has superstar potential. Not sure why that's something to agrue but if you disagree you are entitled to do so.

Except Gay is having an abysmal season and hasn't really been anything special over his career. Maybe he has the talent to become a superstar in his 7th season, but I doubt it.

Blink
01-12-2013, 05:14 PM
How about that Andre Drummond fella? :)

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 05:16 PM
well we don't know do we? what did you expect? Davis to have monster stats an lead the hornets to the play offs in his 1st season?

he may end up in that tier with Duncan and Garnett, or he could fall way short and end up a marcus camby like player. I personally think he will be at the Chris Bosh level, or maybe slightly better, basically a perennial all star and a top 15 player. I don't see him being a top 10 player of all time like Duncan.
the point is, its hard to knock a rookie in his 1st year. players peak at different times.
Most people thought Westbrook was a bust or Derrick Williams should have went ahead of Kyrie Irving. Sometimes we get things wrong.

your agenda is pretty clear. your not a fan of davis and you see him as a threat to your boy blake griffin.

Honestly thought this exact same thing.

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 05:20 PM
And you guys would be wrong. None of these players had such average rookie years. KG came right out of HS and wasn't expected to be his teams best player as a rookie. So stop bringing up KG. Has nothing to do with Griffin and everything to do with people proclaiming this guy as the next dominant player. I'm merely wanting a gauge of what people see of him so far. I've watched only about 10 Hornets games but not once have I said wow this guy is going to be a superstar.

Vinny642
01-12-2013, 06:14 PM
He isnt doing tooo horrible, he is still kept under an offensive leash, and still getting stronger and everything. He is literally the 4th or 5th option offensively. I am fine with his play so far.

da ThRONe
01-12-2013, 06:32 PM
Point is, the kid can improve. His offensive game is far ahead of where most actually thought it would be. Everyone kept comparing him to KG, well guess what he's playing better as a rookie than KG was when he was a rookie. In fact before the injury he was on pace to have one of the greatest rookie campaigns in the since the 2000s, now he'll just have to settle for the 5 or 6th best. He stacks up pretty well to Dwight as well.




2012-13 19 NOH NBA PF 23 686 19.4 .543 .496 10.1 20.8 15.4 3.4 2.0 5.0 11.1 21.7 107 104 0.9 0.8 1.8 .123
2004-05 19 ORL NBA PF 82 2670 17.2 .571 .520 12.2 22.2 17.3 4.4 1.5 3.6 16.1 16.7 111 104 3.8 3.5 7.3 .131

Stats don't tell the whole story. How many made baskets were assisted, how are their on-ball defense, or how good were their post moves? These are the things that matter as it pertains to being a superstar.




Except Gay is having an abysmal season and hasn't really been anything special over his career. Maybe he has the talent to become a superstar in his 7th season, but I doubt it.

I agree if he isn't playing at a superstar level after 7 season he's not likely to become efficient enough to life up to the talent. However the talent is still there.

sammyvine
01-12-2013, 06:41 PM
And you guys would be wrong. None of these players had such average rookie years. KG came right out of HS and wasn't expected to be his teams best player as a rookie. So stop bringing up KG. Has nothing to do with Griffin and everything to do with people proclaiming this guy as the next dominant player. I'm merely wanting a gauge of what people see of him so far. I've watched only about 10 Hornets games but not once have I said wow this guy is going to be a superstar.

and i think the same thing every-time i watch blake griffin, which proves the word superstar is overused.

there are very few superstars

at this moment in time the only superstars in the league are lebron, durant and rose when healthy.

flea
01-12-2013, 06:46 PM
Rose isn't even a top 5 player, much less top 3. I have no idea what kind of metric you're using (other than "I'm a Bulls fan" metric).

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 06:52 PM
Stats don't tell the whole story. How many made baskets were assisted, how are their on-ball defense, or how good were their post moves? These are the things that matter as it pertains to being a superstar.

Do you know how many of KG's baskets were assisted? Do you remember his on ball defense (which btw isn't really as important as being a help defender as a big man), do you know how good KG's post moves were? In the end it really doesn't matter if he's not outproducing Davis. Substance>Flash, don't care how you get it done, as long as you get it done.



I agree if he isn't playing at a superstar level after 7 season he's not likely to become efficient enough to life up to the talent. However the talent is still there.

So basically it's not happening then?

kobebabe
01-12-2013, 07:04 PM
He is on Pace. Did you guys expected him to come in and average 20/10 right away? be realistic. Too early to judge him!

Clippersfan86
01-12-2013, 07:13 PM
He is on Pace. Did you guys expected him to come in and average 20/10 right away? be realistic. Too early to judge him!

Many proclaimed this.

sammyvine
01-12-2013, 07:31 PM
Rose isn't even a top 5 player, much less top 3. I have no idea what kind of metric you're using (other than "I'm a Bulls fan" metric).

its not about just being a top 3 player in my eyes

its about being marketable off the court, and is a difference maker on the court such as making his team contend. Rose is one of the most popular players in the league with fans, has been to a conference finals and won a mvp, that is a superstar for me.

flea
01-12-2013, 08:03 PM
Who the hell cares about marketable in this thread? Jeremy Lin and probably ****ing Yao Ming are still marketable. Are they good NBA players? Not really and definitely not.

IndyRealist
01-12-2013, 08:23 PM
Most everyone agreed that Davis would be a defensive force out of the gates, and that it would take a few years for his offense to catch up. That's exactly what I've seen from him.

IndyRealist
01-12-2013, 08:25 PM
Many proclaimed this.

Not anyone worth listening to. His offensive game is unrefined, there's no way he was going to average 20ppg unless they force fed him.

ricky recon
01-12-2013, 08:29 PM
Anyone who knows basketball that this kid is a rare talent and still looks like he could be a bonafied superstar. He's super young, it'll take some time for Davis to develop his skill and frame, but the overwhelming talent is there.

jerellh528
01-12-2013, 08:31 PM
Always thought he was over hyped, but still way too soon.

Chronz
01-12-2013, 08:35 PM
Most everyone agreed that Davis would be a defensive force out of the gates, and that it would take a few years for his offense to catch up. That's exactly what I've seen from him.
Is his defense as good as advertised? I've been underwhelmed with his counterpart numbers and on court influence, haven't taken a glance at his synergy numbers

Chronz
01-12-2013, 08:40 PM
Yeah how good was KG his first few years by comparison?

b@llhog24
01-12-2013, 08:46 PM
Yeah how good was KG his first few years by comparison?


Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1995-96 19 MIN NBA PF 80 2293 15.8 .522 .497 9.1 17.0 13.1 10.6 1.9 4.4 12.1 17.6 107 107 1.8 2.6 4.4 .092
1996-97 20 MIN NBA PF 77 2995 18.2 .537 .502 7.6 16.8 12.2 14.1 1.9 4.1 12.5 21.3 107 105 3.4 3.9 7.3 .116
1997-98 21 MIN NBA PF 82 3222 20.4 .527 .492 7.9 19.7 13.9 18.2 2.2 3.3 11.8 22.5 109 103 5.3 4.2 9.6 .143

Compared to (so far):


Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2012-13 19 NOH NBA PF 23 686 19.4 .543 .496 10.1 20.8 15.4 3.4 2.0 5.0 11.1 21.7 107 104 0.9 0.8 1.8 .12

JayW_1023
01-12-2013, 09:21 PM
Give the kid time. Jeez. Not all rookies are gonna be stars right away.

People have no patience. Bigs always develop at a slower pace.

Hardaway Here
01-12-2013, 09:54 PM
I don't see what the problem with him is. He needs time to adjust period he used to play pg before he grew only had a year and college then came to play with the much bigger boys. He is fine now so what if he isn't the breakout star he was hyped up to be in his rookie season. That doesn't mean he won't live up to the hype at all give him time.

KingPosey
01-12-2013, 10:09 PM
Many proclaimed this.

I don't remember anyone that knows the game expecting this honestly. He was expected to be a defensive force with room to improve offensively.

Chronz
01-12-2013, 10:17 PM
Yeah how good was KG his first few years by comparison?


Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
1995-96 19 MIN NBA PF 80 2293 15.8 .522 .497 9.1 17.0 13.1 10.6 1.9 4.4 12.1 17.6 107 107 1.8 2.6 4.4 .092
1996-97 20 MIN NBA PF 77 2995 18.2 .537 .502 7.6 16.8 12.2 14.1 1.9 4.1 12.5 21.3 107 105 3.4 3.9 7.3 .116
1997-98 21 MIN NBA PF 82 3222 20.4 .527 .492 7.9 19.7 13.9 18.2 2.2 3.3 11.8 22.5 109 103 5.3 4.2 9.6 .143

Compared to (so far):


Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2012-13 19 NOH NBA PF 23 686 19.4 .543 .496 10.1 20.8 15.4 3.4 2.0 5.0 11.1 21.7 107 104 0.9 0.8 1.8 .12
Holy **** , Why does this thread even exist? Are his intangibles that lacking? I know his on/off court numbers aren't very promising but I didn't want to put any stock into its sample size without watching the kid

mjokc
01-13-2013, 12:09 AM
Oh god no Clippersfan86, don't start trolling PSD now.

mike 810
01-13-2013, 04:14 AM
Drummond will be a superstar Davis will be a all-star. Drummond can physically dominate a game Davis can't . Davis is nice tho but in 12mins less a game drummond is putting up better numbers across the board.

Vinny642
01-13-2013, 04:30 AM
Drummond will be a superstar Davis will be a all-star. Drummond can physically dominate a game Davis can't . Davis is nice tho but in 12mins less a game drummond is putting up better numbers across the board.

Davis is asked to do alot less, also his ceiling is higher also. He had the will to improve, we'll see if Drummond does too

Korman12
01-13-2013, 05:05 AM
He hasn't exploded, but his #'s are KG comparable right now in the same time frame. Not worried.

bigtime1957
01-13-2013, 05:36 AM
All I know is He is having an OK year so far, Not Impressed but not disappointed, I think his Problem right now is, Not a Good Team, So It Reflects on him, But If The Other guys decide there going to the hoop. and not pass it to him, what do you expect, Fact is it is a bad Team Bad Coach and Bad Front Office, Oh And Piss poor Ownership. :cry:

Until The NBA Quits Favoring the LA'S and NY'S of the NBA and Start taking care of the little guys, This game will get worse every year, They Made sure all The Big Markets have top players 2 or 3, And piss on the Rest, So You Get a few Teams beating up on the Little guy, Pad there stats and then tell us how good these guys are, Fact is bring me back to the day when star players didn't flock together because they were good enough back then to carry a Team, But Just Like LJ Ran to a Team because he admitted to himself he was just not good enough to take a team on his Shoulders and win it ALL< Until he does that he is far from being the best of the best, But Yet Brainless fans continue to believe in this crap, But More and More each year turn the crap off, because it is crap. A Bunch of criminals making Millions of hard working honest people. What Has happened To America!

bigmac8675
01-13-2013, 05:39 AM
I mean the book hasn't really been written on him yet, so there is still time for him to become a good player. But the way they made him sound like a perrenial All-star right out of college was way off and a joke. And that unibrow.... c'mon man!

Hawkeye15
01-13-2013, 06:01 AM
no, he will be a stud