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View Full Version : IF Lakers don't make the playoffs, does this tarnish Kobe's legacy?



JerseyPalahniuk
01-09-2013, 08:55 PM
And by how much if you can quantify it. For those who had him in their top 5, does he drop out of it? Likewise for those who had him in their top 10, top 15, top 20 all-time.

Simple question. We've all tried to guess who is to blame, Gasol, Dwight, the coaches, Kobe himself. But if the Superstar player who is constantly compared to MJ does not make the playoffs, will you look at his career and his accomplishments in a different light?

What about Steve Nash?

shep33
01-09-2013, 08:57 PM
Nope. His career speaks for itself.

He's not in my top 5, top 10 (like around 9-10) is more realistic. I don't think he budges.

NBAfan4life
01-09-2013, 08:57 PM
It doesn't for me. He cant possibly move backwards IMO. People can only move ahead of him. Really the only players that have a chance are Durant and Lebron. Lebron is somewhat close Durant is light years away

ManRam
01-09-2013, 08:59 PM
It certainly won't help.

But if it hurts it, it won't be a lot. People already know what Kobe is...they got their minds made up

blastmasta26
01-09-2013, 09:00 PM
No, his longevity has been very impressive, and his legacy will likely remain the same until he retires. Besides, he's been scoring at a high clip and doing it efficiently, so it's not like he is single-handedly destroying the team.

Baller1
01-09-2013, 09:00 PM
Yes, as it should.

GiantsSwaGG
01-09-2013, 09:06 PM
Ball hog

Bruno
01-09-2013, 09:07 PM
And by how much if you can quantify it. For those who had him in their top 5, does he drop out of it? Likewise for those who had him in their top 10, top 15, top 20 all-time.

Simple question. We've all tried to guess who is to blame, Gasol, Dwight, the coaches, Kobe himself. But if the Superstar player who is constantly compared to MJ does not make the playoffs, will you look at his career and his accomplishments in a different light?

What about Steve Nash?

can you name a single NBA example of a revered elite falling farther back into the individual standings because of an event or circumstance (controlled or uncontrolled) which took place in that given pros 17th professional season?


if you give any merit to precedence, you should be able to answer that question for yourself.

b_russ
01-09-2013, 09:07 PM
Probably not, but it also doesn't help his case in being known as a guy that makes his teammates better. He's clearly the top dog on the team and you would think others should be able to thrive off of him. That's obviously not happening.

b@llhog24
01-09-2013, 09:07 PM
Yes, as it should.

:laugh2:

:hi5:

bucketss
01-09-2013, 09:08 PM
his legacy is already set he can only pad it at this point unless he gets caught with performance enhancing drugs

sventhedog
01-09-2013, 09:10 PM
kobe has had a great career but the problem is most people remember things that happen last. that's just human nature. another thing is some people don't appreciate someone talented and a little cocky at times. and haters never really let go of his "ballhog" tag.

nyKnicks126
01-09-2013, 09:10 PM
Dumb thread...

To answer it quickly.. Not at all.. Kobe is one of the most successful players that ever played the game.. He is up there in age and is still leading the league in scoring.. The team as a whole and the coach need to adjust..

Raps18-19 Champ
01-09-2013, 09:11 PM
It'd be a shame if he missed the playoffs with multiple stars, but it's not going to hurt him.

His legacy is cemented.

kswissdaf
01-09-2013, 09:16 PM
He is still obviously at worst a top 15 player, but if this had worked out he had top 5 potential

ThunderousDemon
01-09-2013, 09:22 PM
KobeObsessiveDisorder


We need more Knicks related threads.

ztilzer31
01-09-2013, 09:29 PM
No. It'll be a big story if Dwight leaves and Kobe retires, but overall it'll be water under the bridge. He's had too strong of a year.

Spurred1
01-09-2013, 09:30 PM
Nope-the Lakers overall have had so many injuries/coaching/gelling issues this season. As much as I detest Kobe, I don't think all the issues are his fault and he can't realistically overcome them.
There's always next season.

dtmagnet
01-09-2013, 09:30 PM
No, but it will be really freaking funny.

AsiandudePH
01-09-2013, 09:31 PM
If he was playing bad, it would, but he isn't, so it won't.

RyanStorm
01-09-2013, 09:32 PM
If Kobe's alleged crimes didn't ruin his legacy, than a losing season won't neither.

RyanStorm
01-09-2013, 09:32 PM
If he was playing bad, it would, but he isn't, so it won't.

Yeah its hard to get mad at the the dude playing the best ball of his life

Hardaway Here
01-09-2013, 09:36 PM
Close this thread I'm no where near a Kobe fan but seriously one season won't hurt the work he has put in. Considering the fact the numbers scoring wise he is putting up.

Fired-Up
01-09-2013, 09:38 PM
Yes I've said this for quite a while. He has literally consistently played with a top 1-3 big man his entire career. At one point an ALL TIME dominant big in his absolute prime on his team.

Take that away and we see a player who is not quite as good as once was thought. Still a top 20 player though. Around Nowitzki level.

JerseyPalahniuk
01-09-2013, 10:14 PM
Welp, I guess not. Close the thread if you want but I'm not sure why something like this wouldn't tarnish it. Expectations were sky high and the team SEVERELY disappointed. Celtics had similar expectations and won a ring. Heat had similar expectations and lost in the Finals. Lakers don't make the playoffs? NO ONE had this coming. And he is the #1 option BY FAR. It definitely moves him down a few notches on my all-time rankings for me. A player who refused to change his game. Agree to disagree I guess.

Kobe is a top 5 favorite player by the way. Not trolling.

beliges
01-09-2013, 10:50 PM
Yes I've said this for quite a while. He has literally consistently played with a top 1-3 big man his entire career. At one point an ALL TIME dominant big in his absolute prime on his team.

Take that away and we see a player who is not quite as good as once was thought. Still a top 20 player though. Around Nowitzki level.

That's funny. Pau was nowhere in the top 1-3 big man range before teaming up.with Kobe. Shaq? Certainly yes but that'd about the only "dominant" player kobes ever played with.

Fired-Up
01-09-2013, 10:55 PM
That's funny. Pau was nowhere in the top 1-3 big man range before teaming up.with Kobe. Shaq? Certainly yes but that'd about the only "dominant" player kobes ever played with.

Pau in his prime was the 3rd best big in the game behind Duncan and Dwight. Then Bynum is the single most skilled center in the league. All this while ignoring Shaq.

Kobe has made a living playing with dominant bigs.

HouRealCoach
01-09-2013, 11:22 PM
I gotta go with beliges (Can't believe I'm saying this lol)... Shaq is the only 'dominant' player Kobe has played, He's had some damn good teams, probably the best, but Pau & Bynum were not dominant lol

As for the thread... Kobe has an MVP, 5 rings, 2 Scoring Titles, 2 Finals MVP's, 30,000+ career points, 7 Finals appearances... One year cannot take all of that away

If anything this is hurting Dwight, people actually thought his name would be able to be spoken with the all time greats but he is really killing his legacy because at his age he is supposed to be in his prime and leading the Lakers right now

ThaDubs
01-09-2013, 11:37 PM
It's not a matter of IF, but WHEN.

ManRam
01-09-2013, 11:42 PM
If anything this is hurting Dwight, people actually thought his name would be able to be spoken with the all time greats but he is really killing his legacy because at his age he is supposed to be in his prime and leading the Lakers right now

I don't know. Dwight's got a lot of time to bounce back. If he turns it around, people will be more than willing to write it off as him just being injured/not 100% (which is clearly true).

Beltrans Mole
01-09-2013, 11:55 PM
Two coaches being fired in one season would be greatness

Robbw241
01-09-2013, 11:56 PM
Are they going to take away all his rings? If not, than no.

Swift Game
01-10-2013, 12:00 AM
Its good to see fans that do not like Kobe or the Lakers speak the truth.


I like to read reasonable basketball knowledge rather than insults or the facepalm. That being said the Lakers need to step up their game big if they intend on making the playoffs. A lot of good teams in the West and they need to make a run.

3RDASYSTEM
01-10-2013, 12:04 AM
No it wont hurt it just like when he won his first 3 didnt elevate him to top 10alltime or his next 2 postDIESEL

hes top 30-40, not top 10 or 15....i couldnt imagine had EDDIE JONES won a ring or 2 in LAKERLAND or a PENNY type, they would be top 15 ever also...next

Just like PIPP didnt tarnish his legacy for playing in POR or BARKLEY in HOU

WILT didnt tarnish his individual dominance by losing 5Finals, him winning 2rings do nothing for me, he avg 50 and 20 in same season for a reason, a ring didnt have **** to do with that, and never will

nor did DREXLER up his alltime status by winning a ring in HOU

same with MAGIC/BIRD/JORDAN/BRON

BEAN is one of the best scorers in nba ranks alltime,just as PIPP is arguably greatest PointForward/Defender ever....even when BEAN was a backupguard he still could drop 30, he did it against his idol his rookie yr(if my memory serve correct,i could be wrong)

you guys on psd and in mediahype keep me amused with all this ring talk

game is game,rather you a bonafider star or a backup or a 6thman or specialist

a ring is a reflection of the owner...like a STEINBRENNER/ROONEYS/BUSS-Organization

after like a decade its pretty clear what a player is

what can BRON do now to show me anything diff since he been doing this since his rookie yr and even HS? same with DURANT at TEXAS and MELO at CUSE and so on, they been doing what they do, MELO had killer game perimeter/post and DURANT was getting like 28 and 12 at TEXAS and i said that would translate to 27-30ppg and around 7-8boards once he touches NBA.... now somebody post me his stats since his inception and lets see where my 'prediction' stands

i cant recall a player i missed out on til i met the fiens of the world, fiens of the BEAN

Some players do improve i get that(avg-good players), but not true top 10 alltime type,they have it offtop-day1 at highest level..they are pretty much ALLNBA rookie yr-decade



they all had they game from day1,especially the true top 10-15 players of alltime...none were backupplayers

Hes always played with a no1 option so why would it be any diff. now since he inherited a 56 win squad and now inherited a top aging PG and a top young C, all in one summer

if anything hes lucky he has you fiens speaking on him being a top '5' player ever since its quite a fail to not take a 56win team over the hump and now have a new 'superteam' on paper squad at like 15wins in damn near 50games, and what makes it even more ironic is he was too young before and now hes too old now...yea top 5 ever(most excuses)

Vee-Rex
01-10-2013, 12:11 AM
I say it doesn't hurt his legacy. Actually, Kobe is having an MVP year. I guarantee if his team/coach could put it together and if the Lakers were winning games he'd lead the MVP discussion.

And I say that as a Celtics fan.

ThaDubs
01-10-2013, 12:19 AM
I say it doesn't hurt his legacy. Actually, Kobe is having an MVP year. I guarantee if his team/coach could put it together and if the Lakers were winning games he'd lead the MVP discussion.

And I say that as a Celtics fan.

But he's not a most valuable player.
His team does bad when he does good.

Jahari Kavi
01-10-2013, 12:22 AM
Kobe will always be a top 10-12 guy for me all time....I don't think missing the playoffs impacts his legacy, but I think this season is validating the point that for as great as he is, he has never been the guy to make others around him better.....sometimes he can make others better by default, but as far as getting the most out of the talent available, I cannot place him above a lot of guys....particularly big men......

JerseyPalahniuk
01-10-2013, 12:23 AM
I gotta go with beliges (Can't believe I'm saying this lol)... Shaq is the only 'dominant' player Kobe has played, He's had some damn good teams, probably the best, but Pau & Bynum were not dominant lol

As for the thread... Kobe has an MVP, 5 rings, 2 Scoring Titles, 2 Finals MVP's, 30,000+ career points, 7 Finals appearances... One year cannot take all of that away

If anything this is hurting Dwight, people actually thought his name would be able to be spoken with the all time greats but he is really killing his legacy because at his age he is supposed to be in his prime and leading the Lakers right now

My point exactly dude. I didn't say ALL of that away. His accomplishments are there. But doesn't it tarnish (to whatever extent) legacy as a winner? We're not saying he made it to the Finals and lost, dude might not even make the playoffs.

Cubby
01-10-2013, 12:24 AM
No. He has carried this team, but nobody is willing to step up and help him out.

Vee-Rex
01-10-2013, 12:27 AM
But he's not a most valuable player.
His team does bad when he does good.

I think having 5 rings makes this statement false.

But if you want to get technical, I'll say he's having an 'MVP-like' year. It's his teammates and coach that can't get it right. It's a team game and D'antoni refuses to play defense.

Sorry but the Lakers woes are not Kobe's fault at all, not this year.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-10-2013, 12:30 AM
Yes, as it should.

Kobe's been great this year. Outside Kobe, nash, Hill, and a hurt howard our team is trash.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-10-2013, 12:32 AM
No it wont hurt it just like when he won his first 3 didnt elevate him to top 10alltime or his next 2 postDIESEL

hes top 30-40, not top 10 or 15....i couldnt imagine had EDDIE JONES won a ring or 2 in LAKERLAND or a PENNY type, they would be top 15 ever also...next

Just like PIPP didnt tarnish his legacy for playing in POR or BARKLEY in HOU

WILT didnt tarnish his individual dominance by losing 5Finals, him winning 2rings do nothing for me, he avg 50 and 20 in same season for a reason, a ring didnt have **** to do with that, and never will

nor did DREXLER up his alltime status by winning a ring in HOU

same with MAGIC/BIRD/JORDAN/BRON

BEAN is one of the best scorers in nba ranks alltime,just as PIPP is arguably greatest PointForward/Defender ever....even when BEAN was a backupguard he still could drop 30, he did it against his idol his rookie yr(if my memory serve correct,i could be wrong)

you guys on psd and in mediahype keep me amused with all this ring talk

game is game,rather you a bonafider star or a backup or a 6thman or specialist

a ring is a reflection of the owner...like a STEINBRENNER/ROONEYS/BUSS-Organization

after like a decade its pretty clear what a player is

what can BRON do now to show me anything diff since he been doing this since his rookie yr and even HS? same with DURANT at TEXAS and MELO at CUSE and so on, they been doing what they do, MELO had killer game perimeter/post and DURANT was getting like 28 and 12 at TEXAS and i said that would translate to 27-30ppg and around 7-8boards once he touches NBA.... now somebody post me his stats since his inception and lets see where my 'prediction' stands

i cant recall a player i missed out on til i met the fiens of the world, fiens of the BEAN

Some players do improve i get that(avg-good players), but not true top 10 alltime type,they have it offtop-day1 at highest level..they are pretty much ALLNBA rookie yr-decade



they all had they game from day1,especially the true top 10-15 players of alltime...none were backupplayers

Hes always played with a no1 option so why would it be any diff. now since he inherited a 56 win squad and now inherited a top aging PG and a top young C, all in one summer

if anything hes lucky he has you fiens speaking on him being a top '5' player ever since its quite a fail to not take a 56win team over the hump and now have a new 'superteam' on paper squad at like 15wins in damn near 50games, and what makes it even more ironic is he was too young before and now hes too old now...yea top 5 ever(most excuses)

Terrible rant. :facepalm:

ManRam
01-10-2013, 12:42 AM
Terrible rant. :facepalm:

Yeah. That hurt my head...a lot.

BKLYNpigeon
01-10-2013, 12:52 AM
No not at all.

Everyone expects the Lakers to be Dominate, but just look at what happened.


- 35 games in the season and the the Lakers have had 2 different coaches.
- Gasol, Howard and Nash have been injured.
- half of the players are brand new.
- no bench players.

Lebron would even struggle.

JerseyPalahniuk
01-10-2013, 01:06 AM
Kobe will always be a top 10-12 guy for me all time....I don't think missing the playoffs impacts his legacy, but I think this season is validating the point that for as great as he is, he has never been the guy to make others around him better.....sometimes he can make others better by default, but as far as getting the most out of the talent available, I cannot place him above a lot of guys....particularly big men......

Thank you. This sort of response is what I was trying to get to i think.

Hawkeye15
01-10-2013, 01:09 AM
as I have stated, Kobes ranking and legacy are set for me. Winning with 4 future HOF'ers does nothing to improve it, losing takes away none of his accomplishments.

Kobe is set in my rankings. He isn't moving up or down.

LA4life24/8
01-10-2013, 01:15 AM
no kobe has cemented his legacy, he can only go up, but it doesnt look like he will with the way they are playing, hes still technically playing at a very high level, and his teammates are not, if anything it just further proves hes not the best at making everyone around him better

Jumi
01-10-2013, 01:18 AM
This season makes me respect what Lebron does for his teams even more! I'm by no means a "Kobe Hater". I've always thought that guys who made their teams better, but couldn't win it all because some teams where just flat out better than them got an unfair shake. The Big O and Baylor come to mind. I'm looking forward to see what Lebron/Durant and any other youngsta to come along can do to put their name on the list. Kobe is set for now.

NBAfan4life
01-10-2013, 02:36 AM
can you name a single NBA example of a revered elite falling farther back into the individual standings because of an event or circumstance (controlled or uncontrolled) which took place in that given pros 17th professional season?


if you give any merit to precedence, you should be able to answer that question for yourself.

This

AIverson
01-10-2013, 03:14 AM
I don't get you guys. Do you guys rank players based on how good they are or if they played on an elite team or not? Seriously, leave that ******** logic for the media. You guys are actually basketball people. You know what type of player Kobe is regardless of what his team was. Rank him based on that.

kobe4thewinbang
01-10-2013, 07:35 AM
Kobe, MWP, Hill and Nash are the only ones that care on the entire team.

The others are letting their tendencies impair the Lakers. Meeks bricking shots, Morris being wild, Jamison with out of body experiences on defense, Dwight clanking free throws, Gasol in a coma. Everybody else is confused or not trying.

So, no. It doesn't affect his legacy. Just like when he had a whole bunch of nobodies around him post-Shaq, it didn't. One player can only do so much. He isn't the best "leader" for a team, but the other players need to play efficiently.

ldawg
01-10-2013, 07:58 AM
nope anything else from kobe is bonus his legacy is already set. He is still playing better than 90% of the players in the NBA. The Lakers not making the playoffs reflects the organization the move they fail to make. I new before the season start they needed an athletic sf not sure why they fail to realize that. But i did not know they were going to be this bad. The surprise for me is Howard and Gasol not meshing. It might be a combination of two things, Coach system and Gasol being a better center at this point and not a pf.

ldawg
01-10-2013, 08:18 AM
Did MJ kill his legacy playing baseball, playing for the wizards, owning the Bobcats and drafting Kwame Brown?

kobe4thewinbang
01-10-2013, 08:45 AM
Did MJ kill his legacy playing baseball, playing for the wizards, owning the Bobcats and drafting Kwame Brown?+1

/thread

sammyvine
01-10-2013, 09:56 AM
as I have stated, Kobes ranking and legacy are set for me. Winning with 4 future HOF'ers does nothing to improve it, losing takes away none of his accomplishments.

Kobe is set in my rankings. He isn't moving up or down.

do players actually care about rankings?

i have always wondered that?

does kobe and other actually care where fans rank them?

sammyvine
01-10-2013, 09:57 AM
This season makes me respect what Lebron does for his teams even more! I'm by no means a "Kobe Hater". I've always thought that guys who made their teams better, but couldn't win it all because some teams where just flat out better than them got an unfair shake. The Big O and Baylor come to mind. I'm looking forward to see what Lebron/Durant and any other youngsta to come along can do to put their name on the list. Kobe is set for now.

you have to take age into account

kobe isnt that good anymore simple. if he was 27/8 in his prime, then i would be like, this isnt good, but he is 34, in his 17th season. He is not as good as he was in 2008.

lebron is in his prime. we will see how much he can carry a team when he is 34.

Jamiecballer
01-10-2013, 10:13 AM
yes it certainly does. people will not fail to remember how a team with 3 hall of famers failed to make the post season. even if it can't be proven, people will definitely make the case that player x (insert any other all time great) would never be in a situation like that.

and frankly they are right. he's an incredible talent but not much of a teammate at all.

koreancabbage
01-10-2013, 10:27 AM
Did MJ kill his legacy playing baseball, playing for the wizards, owning the Bobcats and drafting Kwame Brown?

correct, he's the most interesting man alive.

He was so great as a basketball player, he played professional baseball as a hobby. He was so great as a basketball player, he decided to challenge himself by being a GM and drafting Kwame Brown.

TheIlladelph16
01-10-2013, 10:43 AM
No I don't think it will, and even if it does, it would have minimal impact. He is pretty much solidified his legacy within the 5-10 range of best players of all time. Although, I don't believe him winning another championship will have much of an impact either.

xxplayerxx23
01-10-2013, 10:48 AM
Nope. His career speaks for itself.

He's not in my top 5, top 10 (like around 9-10) is more realistic. I don't think he budges.

100% agree. I have him right behind Duncan. Psd man, :pity: I hate Kobe as much as anyone but how does this tarnish anything.

rockbottom2010
01-10-2013, 11:31 AM
even though im not a fan of kobe bryant.....hes one of the all time best for the lakers....even sir charles wouldn't ask a stupid question like that....man

LakersIn5
01-10-2013, 11:34 AM
kobe has had a great career but the problem is most people remember things that happen last. that's just human nature. another thing is some people don't appreciate someone talented and a little cocky at times. and haters never really let go of his "ballhog" tag.

i remember bulls jordan more than wizards jordan

todu82
01-10-2013, 11:46 AM
No, it won't. Bryant, despite this season, has always been an excellent player. 1 bad season by his team shouldn't hurt him.

b-ballistic
01-10-2013, 12:04 PM
would you guys stop worrying about Kobe's **** ing legacy? You guys make me sick.

mbsalame123
01-10-2013, 12:08 PM
this will not ruin kobe's legacy, this will most likely make it better. if they don't make it to the playoffs they will get a good draft pick and get rid of howard and gasol and add better, supporting talent around him which will rejuvenate the team. I think kobe has realized that this year might be a fluke so that is why he is focusing on scoring in order to try and move up in the scoring rankings.

SteBO
01-10-2013, 12:10 PM
Well considering that Kobe's a 5-time champ and that his numbers show that he arguably shouldn't be any part of the reason for LA's struggles, I see no reason why this would tarnish Kobe's legacy. His is set in stone.....

benzni
01-10-2013, 12:11 PM
this is already a thread from a month ago started by MetroMan

no it doesn't.

Baller1
01-10-2013, 12:46 PM
Kobe's been great this year. Outside Kobe, nash, Hill, and a hurt howard our team is trash.

Kobe's FG% has begun to steadily free fall back to the mean though, and the Lakers continue to lose. The fact that Kobe has taken 150 more shots than anyone in the ENTIRE league is just ridiculous.

Kobe will always be seen as an all time great, but missing the playoffs this season when everyone still likes to call the Lakers "his team" should hurt his legacy. It's only logical.

LA RaiderNation
01-10-2013, 12:48 PM
ya, this is a dumb thread... So is MJ no longer a top 5 player in your mind because he missed the playoffs w/ the Wizards 2 years in a row?

beliges
01-10-2013, 01:03 PM
ya, this is a dumb thread... So is MJ no longer a top 5 player in your mind because he missed the playoffs w/ the Wizards 2 years in a row?

this is PSD. MJ is beyond criticism.

DreamShaker
01-10-2013, 01:08 PM
No, Howard and Dantoni are the ones who will get the blame, and rightfully so. Kobe is past his prime on defense, and that is where the Lakers suck. Kobe is doing his part on offense, more than anyone expected this year.

ShockerArt
01-10-2013, 01:14 PM
It will have little to no effect on his legacy. D'Antoni, though ...

TheNumber37
01-10-2013, 01:18 PM
tarnish?
hey Kobe, you've got 5 rings and 2 finals mvps, 2 gold medals. but remember your 17th year when you missed the playoffs with a stacked starting 5, bad coaching and you were playing some of the best ball of your career?

Money_23
01-10-2013, 02:09 PM
you can't: be the best player on a team, not make the playoffs, and have your legacy torn to shreds. Not his fault at all.

JerseyPalahniuk
01-10-2013, 02:18 PM
Did MJ kill his legacy playing baseball, playing for the wizards, owning the Bobcats and drafting Kwame Brown?

Him playing for a wizards team with no talent is not comparable to this year's Lakers at all.

How do the other three have to do with him as a player in any way?

cheesypacker
01-10-2013, 02:26 PM
Who knows. But i gunna say no to that one.

farren.louis
01-10-2013, 02:31 PM
Kobe Leadership skills are Horrible. when Kobe had Lamar odom An bynum he couldnt get that to work . Give Michael Jordan A young Odom and Bynum I guarantee thats a championship team . Jordan will make those guys work! Thats one part of kobe game everyone overlooks , his leadership its just not there.

Tony_Starks
01-10-2013, 03:28 PM
Kobe Leadership skills are Horrible. when Kobe had Lamar odom An bynum he couldnt get that to work . Give Michael Jordan A young Odom and Bynum I guarantee thats a championship team . Jordan will make those guys work! Thats one part of kobe game everyone overlooks , his leadership its just not there.


With Kobe Bynum and LO got two rings and 3 trips to the finals. LO was a 6th man of the year and Bynum was a all-star with his best statistical year ever. All while playing with Kobe.

Since leaving Kobe LO has been kicked off one team and Bynum has a perm.

Let's also not forget Trevor Ariza who has been horrible since leaving LA and has yet to stick with one team.



Facts.

AIRMAR72
01-10-2013, 04:42 PM
tarnish?
hey Kobe, you've got 5 rings and 2 finals mvps, 2 gold medals. but remember your 17th year when you missed the playoffs with a stacked starting 5, bad coaching and you were playing some of the best ball of your career?

laker team lead by Tobe CRYant(kobe bryant) got SWEPT lastyr lol laker fans were all counting on title #6

justinnum1
01-10-2013, 05:21 PM
How does it not tarnish kobe's legacy?

Money_23
01-10-2013, 05:33 PM
How does it not tarnish kobe's legacy?

why would it? he's the last thing that's wrong with the team.

justinnum1
01-10-2013, 05:37 PM
why would it? he's the last thing that's wrong with the team.

Disagree. Sure he is putting up good numbers, but he isn't helping his team win.

Take last night for example. A kobe contested 26 footer to tie is not a good ****. Mike d could have drawn up a nice play for clark or nash, but kobe wasn't letting anyone else take that shot, regardless of how awful the attempt was.

Thats just one example, and it happens a lot. Just becuase kobe is putting up big numbers, doesn't mean he is helping his team win games.

Chronz
01-10-2013, 05:49 PM
This site has to be monitored by women if my factual comments/images got deleted

like this image is really that shocking?

You cant post ANY images of ANY kind here. Get your head straight.

Fired-Up
01-10-2013, 05:56 PM
I'd be more interested in seeing how Kobe would do with this team at 27 or 28 instead of 34. It's harder to criticize a declining great player than a great player at the height of his powers.

Wit that said I maintain this. This is the first time we've seen him totally exposed without a good/great big man. And it shows. He's a shooter. He will shoot till he can't see straight. Problem is. I don't know if he can anything other than that. Shaq sort of did everything.

3RDASYSTEM
01-10-2013, 05:58 PM
With Kobe Bynum and LO got two rings and 3 trips to the finals. LO was a 6th man of the year and Bynum was a all-star with his best statistical year ever. All while playing with Kobe.

Since leaving Kobe LO has been kicked off one team and Bynum has a perm.

Let's also not forget Trevor Ariza who has been horrible since leaving LA and has yet to stick with one team.



Facts.

Facts= BEANS wanted BYNUM gone for KIDD, destroyed him in that rant vid when he wanted out because he couldnt get his AI/BRON on and carry the 'load', well he did to the tune of 37-42 wins in like 3seasons postDIESEL

FACT=ODOM was there when they blew 3-1 lead against SUNS and yr prior to not making playoffs, plus he was there via DIESEL trade so it was basically by default, him and ODOM went thru wars before winning anything

FACT=ODOM was made gamewise before he got to LA, BYNUM got injured by the same guy who wanted him traded for KIDD, ARIZA didnt reach SUPERSTAR status with BEANS,nor was he a SUPERSTAR prior..so whats your point about ARIZA? ARIZA made plays in the postseason himself to earn his overpay day, not BEAN,but if it makes you sleep better i'll give you that one, and FISHER(SHAQ also)..BEAN made FISH/ARIZA, amazing

FACT= BEAN goes for the glory since he felt scorned starting out as a backup and ballhogs SHAQ and maybe now GASOL/HOWARD out of town only to blame them for the shortcomings

FACT= SHAQ complained about not getting enough touches in 04FINALS,they 8th and final run together, GASOL complained back in 10' about same and now HOWARD is making comments about the ballhog subliminally

BorderlineFACT=He made it to playoffs with SMUSH/PARKER/ODOM with like 40 or 42wins, he may not get into the playoffs with NASH/GASOL/HOWARD/JAMISON with possibly 40-45wins, but i think they'll make it..too much boxoffice on that squad,even if it means a 1st or 2nd rd exit..they are a big draw because alot of folks wanna either see'em fail or succeed

im with the latter, i like NASH/BEAN/HOWARD/GASOL, i just dont overrate players


HOWARD quotes

1-We have to play like we like each other. Even if we don't want to be friends off the court, whatever that may be, when we step in between the lines or we step in the locker room or the gym, we have to respect each other and what we bring to the table.

2-"If you're an alpha male, you don't have to always show that you're the alpha male," he said. "Just be who you are. You come in the room, people know you're there... My presence is felt every day, and I don't have to come here and growl and snarl at people. I don't have to do all that."

3-"Look at the difference between our team and theirs," Howard said. "They just play together. They share the ball. Everybody's excited when something happens. We have to be like that to be a great team."




all we trading is back and forth dialogue, next

Tony_Starks
01-10-2013, 06:14 PM
Facts= BEANS wanted BYNUM gone for KIDD, destroyed him in that rant vid when he wanted out because he couldnt get his AI/BRON on and carry the 'load', well he did to the tune of 37-42 wins in like 3seasons postDIESEL

FACT=ODOM was there when they blew 3-1 lead against SUNS and yr prior to not making playoffs, plus he was there via DIESEL trade so it was basically by default, him and ODOM went thru wars before winning anything

FACT=ODOM was made gamewise before he got to LA, BYNUM got injured by the same guy who wanted him traded for KIDD, ARIZA didnt reach SUPERSTAR status with BEANS,nor was he a SUPERSTAR prior..so whats your point about ARIZA? ARIZA made plays in the postseason himself to earn his overpay day, not BEAN,but if it makes you sleep better i'll give you that one, and FISHER(SHAQ also)..BEAN made FISH/ARIZA, amazing

FACT= BEAN goes for the glory since he felt scorned starting out as a backup and ballhogs SHAQ and maybe now GASOL/HOWARD out of town only to blame them for the shortcomings

FACT= SHAQ complained about not getting enough touches in 04FINALS,they 8th and final run together, GASOL complained back in 10' about same and now HOWARD is making comments about the ballhog subliminally

BorderlineFACT=He made it to playoffs with SMUSH/PARKER/ODOM with like 40 or 42wins, he may not get into the playoffs with NASH/GASOL/HOWARD/JAMISON with possibly 40-45wins, but i think they'll make it..too much boxoffice on that squad,even if it means a 1st or 2nd rd exit..they are a big draw because alot of folks wanna either see'em fail or succeed

im with the latter, i like NASH/BEAN/HOWARD/GASOL, i just dont overrate players


HOWARD quotes

1-We have to play like we like each other. Even if we don't want to be friends off the court, whatever that may be, when we step in between the lines or we step in the locker room or the gym, we have to respect each other and what we bring to the table.

2-"If you're an alpha male, you don't have to always show that you're the alpha male," he said. "Just be who you are. You come in the room, people know you're there... My presence is felt every day, and I don't have to come here and growl and snarl at people. I don't have to do all that."

3-"Look at the difference between our team and theirs," Howard said. "They just play together. They share the ball. Everybody's excited when something happens. We have to be like that to be a great team."




all we trading is back and forth dialogue, next



Nothing you said takes away from the facts I stated. Despite all the he say, she say those guys still had a measure of success playing with Kobe, some career years( like Gasol who got two rings and before had never won a single playoff game), and quite a few players have fell off subsequently. So to say "he never made any of his teammates better" is a generalized untrue statement.

beliges
01-10-2013, 06:25 PM
The reason it wont tarnish his legacy is probably because he is in.his 17th season and is playing like a top 3 player this season. Take for example a guy like Duncan the last few seasons getting beat in the 1st round. Don't think that ruined his legacym. Furthermore MJ in.his 14th season or so missed the playoffs 2 seasons in a row. Don't think that hurt his legacy much. If you have a resume like.Kobe does, can't really do.much to tarnish it.

SirSkyHook
01-10-2013, 06:30 PM
Kobe good numbers bad team success = Kobe fault

Lebron good numbers bad team success = teams fault

lol gotta love the Kobe hate lol

LakeShowRaider
01-10-2013, 06:31 PM
Hell yes.

justinnum1
01-10-2013, 06:33 PM
Kobe good numbers bad team success = Kobe fault

Lebron good numbers bad team success = teams fault

lol gotta love the Kobe hate lol

Kobe good numbers + 3 other all stars on his team and they are 5 games under .500

lebron good numbers and 2 other all stars and his team is 10 games over .500

and in the future please dont compare lebron and kobe. all kobe can really do at this stage is score. lebron can score, defend, rebound, assist, he puts a much bigger footprint on a game than kobe.

replace kobe with lebron and the lakers have the best record in the west

SportsFanatic10
01-10-2013, 06:49 PM
not really too much, but it doesn't help that's for sure. mostly it just speaks to his inability to make teammates better, and his me first attitude but we already know that about him. gotta say the lakers missing the playoffs if it happens would be crazy though. you're supposed to at least make a run with a group like that so it can't help but look bad.

Tony_Starks
01-10-2013, 06:49 PM
Kobe good numbers + 3 other all stars on his team and they are 5 games under .500

lebron good numbers and 2 other all stars and his team is 10 games over .500

and in the future please dont compare lebron and kobe. all kobe can really do at this stage is score. lebron can score, defend, rebound, assist, he puts a much bigger footprint on a game than kobe.

replace kobe with lebron and the lakers have the best record in the west


I like how you conveniently leave out the fact that those 3 other allstars have been hurt the majority of the season. Or they have no backup pg. And how you left out the fact that they've had 3 different coaches this season.

But Im sure you're right, Kobe needs to find a way to make guys like Duhon, Sacre, and Morris better!

justinnum1
01-10-2013, 06:52 PM
I like how you conveniently leave out the fact that those 3 other allstars have been hurt the majority of the season. Or they have no backup pg. And how you left out the fact that they've had 3 different coaches this season.

But Im sure you're right, Kobe needs to find a way to make guys like Duhon, Sacre, and Morris better!

Let's be real. Take the team last night, swap lebron and kobe and that team is a 6th seed or better.

Tony_Starks
01-10-2013, 06:57 PM
Let's be real. Take the team last night, swap lebron and kobe and that team is a 6th seed or better.


Nash
Lebron
MWP
Earl Clark!
Robert Sacre!

Do you seriously think that's 6 seed team in the west, coached by D'Antoni? Two of those guys should be in the D league. Really?

If so I can't even take you seriously......

SirSkyHook
01-10-2013, 06:57 PM
Kobe good numbers + 3 other all stars on his team and they are 5 games under .500

lebron good numbers and 2 other all stars and his team is 10 games over .500

and in the future please dont compare lebron and kobe. all kobe can really do at this stage is score. lebron can score, defend, rebound, assist, he puts a much bigger footprint on a game than kobe.

replace kobe with lebron and the lakers have the best record in the west

Kobe 17th season 34 years of age and tons of miliage, also Nash misses 23 Gasol misses 10 games and counting, Howard still working through back surgery, and now out 2 games and counting for his shoulder, also coaching change, all while playing in the WEST

Lebron 28, with two other healthy high level players playing in the easier East.

Yeah i see what you mean lol

also Kobe and Lebron both average 1.5stls and Kobe is still a better man on man defender in my opinion, But again thats my opinion.

Nice try though :D

justinnum1
01-10-2013, 06:59 PM
Kobe 17th season 34 years of age and tons of miliage, also Nash misses 23 Gasol misses 10 games and counting, Howard still working through back surgery, and now out 2 games and counting for his shoulder, also coaching change, all while playing in the WEST

Lebron 28, with two other healthy high level players playing in the easier East.

Yeah i see what you mean lol

also Kobe and Lebron both average 1.5stls and Kobe is still a better man on man defender in my opinion, But again thats my opinion.

Nice try though :D

lol

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are one of kobe's biggest fans.

SportsFanatic10
01-10-2013, 07:01 PM
Kobe 17th season 34 years of age and tons of miliage, also Nash misses 23 Gasol misses 10 games and counting, Howard still working through back surgery, and now out 2 games and counting for his shoulder, also coaching change, all while playing in the WEST

Lebron 28, with two other healthy high level players playing in the easier East.

Yeah i see what you mean lol

also Kobe and Lebron both average 1.5stls and Kobe is still a better man on man defender in my opinion, But again thats my opinion.

Nice try though :D

:speechless: WOW!

justinnum1
01-10-2013, 07:02 PM
Nash
Lebron
MWP
Earl Clark!
Robert Sacre!

Do you seriously think that's 6 seed team in the west, coached by D'Antoni? Two of those guys should be in the D league. Really?

If so I can't even take you seriously......

Most def. And no worries, if you don't want to take me seriously i won't lose any sleep ;)

what teams other than spurs, clippers, grizz, okc and warriros would you say are better? houston and denver are questionable.

SirSkyHook
01-10-2013, 07:05 PM
Nash
Lebron
MWP
Earl Clark!
Robert Sacre!

Do you seriously think that's 6 seed team in the west, coached by D'Antoni? Two of those guys should be in the D league. Really?

If so I can't even take you seriously......

This.

Tony_Starks
01-10-2013, 07:07 PM
Most def. And no worries, if you don't want to take me seriously i won't lose any sleep ;)

what teams other than spurs, clippers, grizz, okc and warriros would you say are better? houston and denver are questionable.



I would take Denver and Utahs starting 5 over that one easy. You can have one weak link in the lineup but 2 is just not conducive to .500 basketball. We're not talking about roll players we're talking about lucky to be on the team players (although Clark did do his thing last night). But Sacre? People don't even know who he is, my friend text me and asked "when did Lakers sign Chico DeBarge?"

But my overall point is it's not fair to judge the Lakers as this big stacked team when their team basically hasn't been intact the whole season. If they had been healthy all this time that's another story.....

justinnum1
01-10-2013, 07:10 PM
I would take Denver and Utahs starting 5 over that one easy. You can have one weak link in the lineup but 2 is just not conducive to .500 basketball. We're not talking about roll players we're talking about lucky to be on the team players (although Clark did do his thing last night). But Sacre? People don't even know who he is, my friend text me and asked "when did Lakers sign Chico DeBarge?"

But my overall point is it's not fair to judge the Lakers as this big stacked team when their team basically hasn't been intact the whole season. If they had been healthy all this time that's another story.....

fair enough

SirSkyHook
01-10-2013, 07:14 PM
lol

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you are one of kobe's biggest fans.

Im a Lakers fan first. Magics my favorite player alltime, but unlike some i have faith in our franchise players, and question, is all you read was the last sentence?. I said thats my opinion.

justinnum1
01-10-2013, 07:17 PM
Im a Lakers fan first. Magics my favorite player alltime, but unlike some i have faith in our franchise players, and question, is all you read was the last sentence?. I said thats my opinion.

I read the whole thing. but that one sentence where you think kobe is a better man on man defender than lebron stood out lol.

That's like saying steve nash is a better man on man defender than avery bradley.

SirSkyHook
01-10-2013, 07:18 PM
:speechless: WOW!

Yeah run from the fact and run with what i said was my opinion lol, but i guess since majority may agree with you that makes you right, right? lol

I bet you believe cigarettes are healthier and should be legal opposed to Marijuana to, right? despite the fact it kills by the millions lol

JerseyPalahniuk
01-10-2013, 07:20 PM
Kobe good numbers bad team success = Kobe fault

Lebron good numbers bad team success = teams fault

lol gotta love the Kobe hate lol

Lebron's bad team success before Heat = losing to Championship eventual Pistons, Championship Spurs, Championship Celtics, Championship Mavs

Kobe's bad team success = not making playoffs

Kinda different eh?


Nash
Lebron
MWP
Earl Clark!
Robert Sacre!

Do you seriously think that's 6 seed team in the west, coached by D'Antoni? Two of those guys should be in the D league. Really?

If so I can't even take you seriously......

How many minutes have those players played this season? Are you really going to generalize the last two games for the entire season?

YES, wholeheartedly YES, Lebron even with the injuries the Lakers had would be a 6 seed in the West. Dwight played 33/35 games, Gasol played in 25/35. Lebron could play the facilitator role during the games Nash missed.

I don't want to turn this two a Lebron/Kobe thread but those commments had to be responded to.

I don't question Kobe's legacy as an individual player or scorer but as a LEADER.

SirSkyHook
01-10-2013, 07:20 PM
I read the whole thing. but that one sentence where you think kobe is a better man on man defender than lebron stood out lol.

That's like saying steve nash is a better man on man defender than avery bradley.

Come on are you serious, you think Kobe's that bad lol. I would agree with you if you said Lebrons a better help defender, or system defender, but the gap you suggest between Kobe and lebron cant be that wide on ball to you. You had to say that for ***** and giggles lol

rocky4104
01-10-2013, 07:22 PM
Let's be real. Take the team last night, swap lebron and kobe and that team is a 6th seed or better.

kinda like when LBJ was leading Cleveland??

justinnum1
01-10-2013, 07:23 PM
Come on are you serious, you think Kobe's that bad lol. I would agree with you if you said Lebrons a better help defender, or system defender, but the gap you suggest between Kobe and lebron cant be that wide on ball to you. You had to say that for ***** and giggles lol

I dont think kobe is bad at all. But lebron is better in all areas of defense compared to kobe imo.


kinda like when LBJ was leading Cleveland??

oh yea, when lebron won 65 games and his 2nd best player was mo williams. you mean that?

SirSkyHook
01-10-2013, 07:29 PM
Lebron's bad team success before Heat = losing to Championchip eventual Pistons, Championchip Spurs, Championchip Celtics, Championchip Mavs

Kobe's bad team success = not making playoffs

Kinda different eh?



How many minutes have those players played this season? Are you really going to generalize the last two games for the entire season?

YES, wholeheartedly YES, Lebron even with the injuries the Lakers had would be a 6 seed in the West. Dwight played 33/35 games, Gasol played in 25/35. Lebron could play the facilitator role during the games Nash missed.

I don't want to turn this two a Lebron/Kobe thread but those commments had to be responded to.

I don't question Kobe's legacy as an individual player or scorer but as a LEADER.

Kobe missed the playoffs once in his career when he and Lamar missed tons of games along with Buter goin down towards the end, and Vlade who was suppose to be the center was down for the entire season. If you refferring to this current team the jury is still out. In 03 the Lakers were 15-20 and finished 3rd in the West so I'm not sold on us not making it this year.

I said it before. Theres a reason Lebron didnt seriously consider coming out west when he was a free agent. He knows, even if you dont, that the West is a different beast. No way in hell dealing with the Lakers current situation does he make this team a 6th season at this point in the season.

You just better hope he makes it to the Finals this year or his lockout ring may began to look suspect.

SirSkyHook
01-10-2013, 07:31 PM
I dont think kobe is bad at all. But lebron is better in all areas of defense compared to kobe imo.

oh yea, when lebron won 65 games and his 2nd best player was mo williams. you mean that?

I can respect that as your opinion

JerseyPalahniuk
01-10-2013, 07:40 PM
Kobe missed the playoffs once in his career when he and Lamar missed tons of games along with Buter goin down towards the end, and Vlade who was suppose to be the center was down for the entire season. If you refferring to this current team the jury is still out. In 03 the Lakers were 15-20 and finished 3rd in the West so I'm not sold on us not making it this year.

I said it before. Theres a reason Lebron didnt seriously consider coming out west when he was a free agent. He knows, even if you dont, that the West is a different beast. No way in hell dealing with the Lakers current situation does he make this team a 6th season at this point in the season.

You just better hope he makes it to the Finals this year or his lockout ring may began to look suspect.

Yes, I was referring to this year. You didn't address the issue of how different the "bad success" for Kobe and Lebron was. I want the Lakers to make the playoffs, I am rooting for them. But if it doesn't happen, it is a severe disappointment.

I didn't say if Lebron and Kobe switched positions TODAY, but if they started out with him in the beginning. They would not be 15-20.

If any other team in the NBA that made their conference finals won the championship, they would not be antagonized due to the lockout. Every team had the same advantages/disadvantages. You would think the extremely young and athletic Thunder would benefit the most?

--23--
01-10-2013, 07:40 PM
Kobe legacy will be fine the guy is in his 17th season still playing at a high level which is amazing enough, realistically at this stage of his career he should be preparing for retirement and handing the torch over to the next Lakers star.

If anything it look worse for Dwight. He wanted to leave his team in Orlando, he got traded to a great franchise where every big men had title success. And if he cannot achieve any success with the talent around him now or in the future he will be a failure.

lakersfan01
01-10-2013, 07:47 PM
Paula.

rocky4104
01-10-2013, 07:48 PM
Let's be real. Take the team last night, swap lebron and kobe and that team is a 6th seed or better.

oh yea, when lebron won 65 games and his 2nd best player was mo williams. you mean that?

yes exactly that, the team without dwight, gasol, hill, blake, wherein your best players being nash, mwp, clark and sacre. i'm saying this team won't go farther even with lebron

i'll bet you he'll hightail and leave the team searching for other stars to team with

ever heard the term 'deja vu'?

Fired-Up
01-10-2013, 07:49 PM
Kobe Bryant excels on teams when they ask him to do his role and others do theirs.

Kobe Bryant's role is to shoot an enormous volume of shots. Score, shoot, score, score, shoot, miss more than half his shots, etc.

Shaq did the defense, rebounding, kicking out, controlling pace of the game. And when he left Gasol and Bynum did all the other stuff. Fisher controlled the pace of the game too.

Let's be real Kobe Bryant is just a scorer.

bucketss
01-10-2013, 07:51 PM
Come on are you serious, you think Kobe's that bad lol. I would agree with you if you said Lebrons a better help defender, or system defender, but the gap you suggest between Kobe and lebron cant be that wide on ball to you. You had to say that for ***** and giggles lol

kobe has turned into a liability on defense idk how you can compare it to lebrons.


http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2012/12/10/lakers-defensive-problems-include-kobe-bryant/

Fired-Up
01-10-2013, 07:54 PM
LeBron in his prime is simply a better defender and quite frankly a better and more impactful player than Kobe was/is. So I don't know where this whole LBJ doesn't play defense is coming from. The man is arguably the best perimeter defender in the league. He can ball.

ne3xchamps
01-10-2013, 08:15 PM
really?? What a dumb *** question. :facepalm:

It will do nothing to his legacy, he has quite the resume.

ne3xchamps
01-10-2013, 08:17 PM
I love how this is starting to turn into a lebron vs. kobe thread. :laugh2:

This is ridiculous.

Money_23
01-10-2013, 08:20 PM
I love how this is starting to turn into a lebron vs. kobe thread. :laugh2:

This is ridiculous.

PSD is a constant battle of the lebron d1ckriders vs kobe d1ckriders.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-10-2013, 08:22 PM
Kobe's FG% has begun to steadily free fall back to the mean though, and the Lakers continue to lose. The fact that Kobe has taken 150 more shots than anyone in the ENTIRE league is just ridiculous.

Kobe will always be seen as an all time great, but missing the playoffs this season when everyone still likes to call the Lakers "his team" should hurt his legacy. It's only logical.

Not Kobe's fault the lakers suck.
Kobe has been pretty steady at 48 pecent for a while now.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-10-2013, 08:27 PM
Kobe good numbers + 3 other all stars on his team and they are 5 games under .500

lebron good numbers and 2 other all stars and his team is 10 games over .500

and in the future please dont compare lebron and kobe. all kobe can really do at this stage is score. lebron can score, defend, rebound, assist, he puts a much bigger footprint on a game than kobe.

replace kobe with lebron and the lakers have the best record in the west

WHo are the three other allstars???
Nash has barely played this year, Howard is still hurt.Gasol is a *****.
Durant wouldn't change a ****ing thing buddy.

justinnum1
01-10-2013, 08:38 PM
WHo are the three other allstars???
Nash has barley played this year, Howard is still hurt.Gasol is a *****.
Durant wouldn't change a ****ing thing buddy.

i agree, durant wouldnt make much difference. But lebron would. Switch lebron and kobe and the lakers are no where near a sub .500 team.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-10-2013, 08:59 PM
i agree, durant wouldnt make much difference. But lebron would. Switch lebron and kobe and the lakers are no where near a sub .500 team.

If lebron was 34 you wouldn't be saying that.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-10-2013, 09:00 PM
Why would anyone blame Kobe?

Everyone for the past two years has said that Howard is the better player. Wouldn't this tarnish his legacy seeing as how he is in his prime?

How about Gasol? Everyone said that he was the most important player when they won their rings because he had higher win shares per 48. Does this tarnish his legacy because he is closer to his prime years than Kobe is.

How about Nash? He has won 2 MVP's and is well know to make things easier on his teammates? A far better teammate than Bryant you would all say. Does his legacy take a hit because he cant make these hall of famers better?

If Kobe is what all of you guys have always said he is, he is just a back up singer. You cant give all the credit to the other guys and say they are the better players or more important when Kobe is when he is winning rings and blame everything on Kobe when things are not going right. Choose a side and stick with it.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-10-2013, 09:09 PM
Kobe's FG% has begun to steadily free fall back to the mean though, and the Lakers continue to lose. The fact that Kobe has taken 150 more shots than anyone in the ENTIRE league is just ridiculous.

Kobe will always be seen as an all time great, but missing the playoffs this season when everyone still likes to call the Lakers "his team" should hurt his legacy. It's only logical.

His true shooting% is .585 and far better than everyone else. Who do you want taking shots? Howard? Have you seen his post up success? He turns the ball over 20% of the time on his post up opportunities and scores .73 points per possession. We all know how Gasol is doing. Name someone off the bench that should take shots away. The only that should take more shots is Nash but he refuses to.

SirSkyHook
01-10-2013, 09:19 PM
Yes, I was referring to this year. You didn't address the issue of how different the "bad success" for Kobe and Lebron was. I want the Lakers to make the playoffs, I am rooting for them. But if it doesn't happen, it is a severe disappointment.

I didn't say if Lebron and Kobe switched positions TODAY, but if they started out with him in the beginning. They would not be 15-20.

If any other team in the NBA that made their conference finals won the championship, they would not be antagonized due to the lockout. Every team had the same advantages/disadvantages. You would think the extremely young and athletic Thunder would benefit the most?

What i was saying about the 15-20 thing is that i saw it get turned around once, and it can happen again.

As far as the lockout thing. I hold every team to that standard, especially when the team is for the most part intacted. I said it about Timmy and the Spurs, and couldnt respect their lockout ring untill they won again in a full season, so with me the same goes for Lebron and the Heat.

and again I doubt that Lebron in Kobe's situation would some how have this team great. Look with the roster they have now theyer losing to losing teams at times it just dosent look as bad becuase theyer in the east, and they could lose the next 5 and still be a lock for a top spot.

I'm not trying to knock Lebron, the boy is good. I was just pointing out the double standard that was funny to me. I know alot of fans want us to stay in this hole and not crawl out, hell theyer tired of us always coming out on top, but it dosent mean the Lakers will, and again 03 was the same and we ended up 3rd, so i have faith that this team in this situation can atleast get 8th

xxplayerxx23
01-10-2013, 09:21 PM
Kobe takes the ball out of his playmakers hands and takes tough shots. He doesn't make his teammates better but it's not his fault for the slow start. Injuries have killed them

Tony_Starks
01-10-2013, 09:21 PM
Why would anyone blame Kobe?

Everyone for the past two years has said that Howard is the better player. Wouldn't this tarnish his legacy seeing as how he is in his prime?

How about Gasol? Everyone said that he was the most important player when they won their rings because he had higher win shares per 48. Does this tarnish his legacy because he is closer to his prime years than Kobe is.

How about Nash? He has won 2 MVP's and is well know to make things easier on his teammates? A far better teammate than Bryant you would all say. Does his legacy take a hit because he cant make these hall of famers better?

If Kobe is what all of you guys have always said he is, he is just a back up
singer. You cant give all the credit to the other guys and say they are the better players or more important when Kobe is when he is winning rings and
blame everything on Kobe when things are not going right. Choose a side and stick with it.


Come on you know one of the cardinal laws of psd is when Lakers lose it's Kobes fault and when the win it's in spite of him.

SirSkyHook
01-10-2013, 09:30 PM
PSD is a constant battle of the lebron d1ckriders vs kobe d1ckriders.

and your the ugly ***** in the corner wishing she had a dick to ride. Hurts dosent it? now respond all butthurt, so i can laugh while smashing on my case of Modello's lol

SirSkyHook
01-10-2013, 09:32 PM
Come on you know one of the cardinal laws of psd is when Lakers lose it's Kobes fault and when the win it's in spite of him.

funny thing is they feel justified in ther foolishness lol

SportsFanatic10
01-11-2013, 12:38 AM
Yeah run from the fact and run with what i said was my opinion lol, but i guess since majority may agree with you that makes you right, right? lol

I bet you believe cigarettes are healthier and should be legal opposed to Marijuana to, right? despite the fact it kills by the millions lol

wait, so you say its just your opinion but im running from the fact in the same sentence lol? and i could give a **** what the majority thinks, lebron is a better defender then kobe in every sense of the word and that's pretty obvious right now. but i guess just because some laker/kobe fans would agree with you makes you right, right? lol see i can use that dumb*** logic too, doesn't say anything does it? and all i said was wow in response to a very homerish and questionable opinion you stated, not exactly running with anything huh? and where does the whole cigarettes bs come from hahaha you're making a fool of yourself just stop.

desertlakeshow
01-11-2013, 01:29 AM
wait, so you say its just your opinion but im running from the fact in the same sentence lol? and i could give a **** what the majority thinks, lebron is a better defender then kobe in every sense of the word and that's pretty obvious right now. but i guess just because some laker/kobe fans would agree with you makes you right, right? lol see i can use that dumb*** logic too, doesn't say anything does it? and all i said was wow in response to a very homerish and questionable opinion you stated, not exactly running with anything huh? and where does the whole cigarettes bs come from hahaha you're making a fool of yourself just stop.

when Laron James is in his 17th season he will be a better defender than Kobe in every sense of the word and thats pretty obvious.

How can you use Lebron james in the absolute pinacle of his career like a cheap used tampon to a man who has played 17 years in the NBA.

Grow a set and if you wish to complete this lack of facts comparison come back in many years when Labron has indeed played 17 years in this league and do it.

Till then
:facepalm:

desertlakeshow
01-11-2013, 01:33 AM
And please pick any player you wish,

in their 17th season to compare and drop Kobe from a legacy standpoint.

Do you really think Lebron, Wade, Durant will play 17 seasons and still be doing what Kobe is doing?

SportsFanatic10
01-11-2013, 01:37 AM
when Laron James is in his 17th season he will be a better defender than Kobe in every sense of the word and thats pretty obvious.

How can you use Lebron james in the absolute pinacle of his career like a cheap used tampon to a man who has played 17 years in the NBA.

Grow a set and if you wish to complete this lack of facts comparison come back in many years when Labron has indeed played 17 years in this league and do it.

Till then
:facepalm:


LOL grow a set? maybe you should go back in the thread and see what led to my post instead of jumping into the mix like you know ****. the guy i responded to said kobe is a better man to man defender then lebron right now so gtfo.

desertlakeshow
01-11-2013, 01:39 AM
Here is a list for you to compare and diminish Kobe from the rest of the league from a legacy standpoint. These players played more games than Kobe. Pick the ones with magical seasons that make Kobe look like he should be downgraded in his 17th season.

1 Robert Parish* Golden State Warriors, Boston Celtics, Charlotte Hornets, Chicago Bulls 21 1,611
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[5] Milwaukee Bucks, Los Angeles Lakers 20 1,560
3 John Stockton* Utah Jazz 19 1,504
4 Karl Malone* Utah Jazz, Los Angeles Lakers 19 1,476
5 Kevin Willis† Atlanta Hawks, Miami Heat, Golden State Warriors, Houston Rockets, Toronto Raptors, Denver Nuggets, Houston, San Antonio Spurs, Atlanta, Dallas Mavericks 21 1,424
6 Reggie Miller* Indiana Pacers 18 1,389
7 Clifford R. Robinson† Portland Trail Blazers, Phoenix Suns, Detroit Pistons, Golden State Warriors, New Jersey Nets 18 1,380
8 Jason Kidd^ Dallas Mavericks, Phoenix Suns, New Jersey Nets, Dallas, New York Knicks 18+ 1,346
9 Gary Payton† Seattle SuperSonics, Milwaukee Bucks, Los Angeles Lakers, Boston Celtics, Miami Heat 17 1,335
10 Moses Malone* Buffalo Braves, Houston Rockets, Philadelphia 76ers, Washington Bullets, Atlanta Hawks, Milwaukee Bucks, Philadelphia, San Antonio Spurs 19 1,329
11 Buck Williams New Jersey Nets, Portland Trail Blazers, New York Knicks 17 1,307
12 Elvin Hayes* San Diego/Houston Rockets, Baltimore/Capital/Washington Bullets, Houston 16 1,303
13 Mark Jackson New York Knicks, Los Angeles Clippers, Indiana Pacers, Denver Nuggets, Indiana, Toronto Raptors, New York, Utah Jazz, Houston Rockets 17 1,296
14 Kevin Garnett^ Minnesota Timberwolves, Boston Celtics 17+ 1,290
15 Sam Perkins Dallas Mavericks, Los Angeles Lakers, Seattle SuperSonics, Indiana Pacers 17 1,286
16 Charles Oakley Chicago Bulls, New York Knicks, Toronto Raptors, Chicago, Washington Wizards, Houston Rockets 19 1,282
17 A.C. Green Los Angeles Lakers, Phoenix Suns, Dallas Mavericks, LA Lakers, Miami Heat 16 1,278
18 Terry Porter Portland Trail Blazers, Minnesota Timberwolves, Miami Heat, San Antonio Spurs 17 1,274
19 John Havlicek* Boston Celtics 16 1,270
20 Otis Thorpe Kansas City/Sacramento Kings, Houston Rockets, Portland Trail Blazers, Detroit Pistons, Vancouver Grizzlies, Sacramento, Washington Wizards, Miami Heat, Charlotte Hornets 17 1,257
21 Paul Silas St. Louis/Atlanta Hawks, Phoenix Suns, Boston Celtics, Denver Nuggets, Seattle SuperSonics 16 1,254
22 Hakeem Olajuwon* Houston Rockets, Toronto Raptors 18 1,238
23 Dale Ellis Dallas Mavericks, Seattle SuperSonics, Milwaukee Bucks, San Antonio Spurs, Denver Nuggets, Seattle 17 1,209
24 Shaquille O'Neal† Orlando Magic, Los Angeles Lakers, Miami Heat, Phoenix Suns, Cleveland Cavaliers, Boston Celtics 19 1,207
25 Juwan Howard† Washington Bullets/Wizards, Dallas Mavericks, Denver Nuggets, Orlando Magic, Houston Rockets, Dallas, Denver, Charlotte Bobcats, Portland Trail Blazers, Miami Heat 18 1,201
26-(T) Derek Harper Dallas Mavericks, New York Knicks, Dallas, Orlando Magic, Los Angeles Lakers 16 1,199
26-(T) Eddie A. Johnson Kansas City/Sacramento Kings, Phoenix Suns, Seattle SuperSonics, Charlotte Hornets, Indiana Pacers, Houston Rockets 17 1,199

desertlakeshow
01-11-2013, 01:42 AM
And really, why on earth would Lebron not be a better defender than Kobe right now.

Crap, same argument. Please post a player with 17 years in the league that can d up like Kobe.

desertlakeshow
01-11-2013, 01:43 AM
And I love Labron, he is Magic Johnson on steroids (no I am not saying he uses steroids).

SportsFanatic10
01-11-2013, 01:44 AM
Here is a list for you to compare and diminish Kobe from the rest of the league from a legacy standpoint. These players played more games than Kobe. Pick the ones with magical seasons that make Kobe look like he should be downgraded in his 17th season.

1 Robert Parish* Golden State Warriors, Boston Celtics, Charlotte Hornets, Chicago Bulls 21 1,611
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[5] Milwaukee Bucks, Los Angeles Lakers 20 1,560
3 John Stockton* Utah Jazz 19 1,504
4 Karl Malone* Utah Jazz, Los Angeles Lakers 19 1,476
5 Kevin Willis† Atlanta Hawks, Miami Heat, Golden State Warriors, Houston Rockets, Toronto Raptors, Denver Nuggets, Houston, San Antonio Spurs, Atlanta, Dallas Mavericks 21 1,424
6 Reggie Miller* Indiana Pacers 18 1,389
7 Clifford R. Robinson† Portland Trail Blazers, Phoenix Suns, Detroit Pistons, Golden State Warriors, New Jersey Nets 18 1,380
8 Jason Kidd^ Dallas Mavericks, Phoenix Suns, New Jersey Nets, Dallas, New York Knicks 18+ 1,346
9 Gary Payton† Seattle SuperSonics, Milwaukee Bucks, Los Angeles Lakers, Boston Celtics, Miami Heat 17 1,335
10 Moses Malone* Buffalo Braves, Houston Rockets, Philadelphia 76ers, Washington Bullets, Atlanta Hawks, Milwaukee Bucks, Philadelphia, San Antonio Spurs 19 1,329
11 Buck Williams New Jersey Nets, Portland Trail Blazers, New York Knicks 17 1,307
12 Elvin Hayes* San Diego/Houston Rockets, Baltimore/Capital/Washington Bullets, Houston 16 1,303
13 Mark Jackson New York Knicks, Los Angeles Clippers, Indiana Pacers, Denver Nuggets, Indiana, Toronto Raptors, New York, Utah Jazz, Houston Rockets 17 1,296
14 Kevin Garnett^ Minnesota Timberwolves, Boston Celtics 17+ 1,290
15 Sam Perkins Dallas Mavericks, Los Angeles Lakers, Seattle SuperSonics, Indiana Pacers 17 1,286
16 Charles Oakley Chicago Bulls, New York Knicks, Toronto Raptors, Chicago, Washington Wizards, Houston Rockets 19 1,282
17 A.C. Green Los Angeles Lakers, Phoenix Suns, Dallas Mavericks, LA Lakers, Miami Heat 16 1,278
18 Terry Porter Portland Trail Blazers, Minnesota Timberwolves, Miami Heat, San Antonio Spurs 17 1,274
19 John Havlicek* Boston Celtics 16 1,270
20 Otis Thorpe Kansas City/Sacramento Kings, Houston Rockets, Portland Trail Blazers, Detroit Pistons, Vancouver Grizzlies, Sacramento, Washington Wizards, Miami Heat, Charlotte Hornets 17 1,257
21 Paul Silas St. Louis/Atlanta Hawks, Phoenix Suns, Boston Celtics, Denver Nuggets, Seattle SuperSonics 16 1,254
22 Hakeem Olajuwon* Houston Rockets, Toronto Raptors 18 1,238
23 Dale Ellis Dallas Mavericks, Seattle SuperSonics, Milwaukee Bucks, San Antonio Spurs, Denver Nuggets, Seattle 17 1,209
24 Shaquille O'Neal† Orlando Magic, Los Angeles Lakers, Miami Heat, Phoenix Suns, Cleveland Cavaliers, Boston Celtics 19 1,207
25 Juwan Howard† Washington Bullets/Wizards, Dallas Mavericks, Denver Nuggets, Orlando Magic, Houston Rockets, Dallas, Denver, Charlotte Bobcats, Portland Trail Blazers, Miami Heat 18 1,201
26-(T) Derek Harper Dallas Mavericks, New York Knicks, Dallas, Orlando Magic, Los Angeles Lakers 16 1,199
26-(T) Eddie A. Johnson Kansas City/Sacramento Kings, Phoenix Suns, Seattle SuperSonics, Charlotte Hornets, Indiana Pacers, Houston Rockets 17 1,199


buddy can you read? the guy said he thinks kobe is a better man on man defender then lebron RIGHT NOW and i responded. you're getting all defensive and sucking kobe off without even knowing what was being discussed and in what context lol.

SportsFanatic10
01-11-2013, 01:45 AM
And really, why on earth would Lebron not be a better defender than Kobe right now.

Crap, same argument. Please post a player with 17 years in the league that can d up like Kobe.

ask your fellow homer that.

rickshaw
01-11-2013, 01:49 AM
So we can use championships as a huge factor in rating players even though it's a team accomplishment, but we can't use missing the playoffs since it's the team playing bad around someone?

desertlakeshow
01-11-2013, 01:54 AM
No, im asking you.

Why on earth would you try and make that argument.

And im not sucking Kobe off.

I would trade kobe and Dwight right now for the Nut your riding.

Why on earth compare Labron at his prime with Kobe at this stage.

And sorry if I sound defensive. Not my intent, I have not even gone into Caps mode.

Just dont understand the intent. Labron is to me an all time top 15 player right now, and Kobe is on the downside of his great career.

Why compare Labron to Kobe at this stage.

yes Shaq would totally destroy Kareem in his 17th season.

Why do it?

SportsFanatic10
01-11-2013, 01:58 AM
No, im asking you.

Why on earth would you try and make that argument.

And im not sucking Kobe off.

I would trade kobe and Dwight right now for the Nut your riding.

Why on earth compare Labron at his prime with Kobe at this stage.

And sorry if I sound defensive. Not my intent, I have not even gone into Caps mode.

Just dont understand the intent. Labron is to me an all time top 15 player right now, and Kobe is on the downside of his great career.

Why compare Labron to Kobe at this stage.

yes Shaq would totally destroy Kareem in his 17th season.

Why do it?

dude, it really is this simple...

the laker homer said he thinks kobe is a better defender one on on then lebron right now. see, HE MADE THE COMPARISON. i just called him out on it. then you come strutting into the mix and go off on random tangents that have nothing to do with what was said so far lol.

desertlakeshow
01-11-2013, 01:58 AM
So we can use championships as a huge factor in rating players even though it's a team accomplishment, but we can't use missing the playoffs since it's the team playing bad around someone?

as long as it happens to be in the players 17th season.

desertlakeshow
01-11-2013, 01:59 AM
dude, it really is this simple...

the laker homer said he thinks kobe is a better defender one on on then lebron right now. see, HE MADE THE COMPARISON. i just called him out on it. then you come strutting into the mix and go off on random tangents that have nothing to do with what was said so far lol.

your way better than that.

enjoy your evening.

SirSkyHook
01-11-2013, 04:27 AM
wait, so you say its just your opinion but im running from the fact in the same sentence lol? and i could give a **** what the majority thinks, lebron is a better defender then kobe in every sense of the word and that's pretty obvious right now. but i guess just because some laker/kobe fans would agree with you makes you right, right? lol see i can use that dumb*** logic too, doesn't say anything does it? and all i said was wow in response to a very homerish and questionable opinion you stated, not exactly running with anything huh? and where does the whole cigarettes bs come from hahaha you're making a fool of yourself just stop.

Dont play stupid ...... well i hope your playing. The fact was all the factors to why the Lakers are struggling. My opinion was that i think Kobe is still better man on man than Lebron. All you addressed was my opinion because you couldnt deny that it's not Kobe so called bad leadership to why there struggling, and couldnt prove that Lebron would have them with a better record in the West.

SportsFanatic10
01-11-2013, 04:56 AM
Dont play stupid ...... well i hope your playing. The fact was all the factors to why the Lakers are struggling. My opinion was that i think Kobe is still better man on man than Lebron. All you addressed was my opinion because you couldnt deny that it's not Kobe so called bad leadership to why there struggling, and couldnt prove that Lebron would have them with a better record in the West.

i just addressed that because the rest was someone else's argument. i just merely saw you mention the defense thing as i was reading through the thread and had a good laugh at how big a homer you are is all.

CoffeeJanitor
01-11-2013, 05:46 AM
Hell no. One, Kobe is old as hell. Two, he's playing his best basketball in YEARS. Just goes to show you that individual performance doesn't always match up with team success (not saying he's doing anything wrong).

jam
01-11-2013, 05:55 AM
Bending a girl over and raping and choking her and then paying her off to avoid criminal prosecution tarnishes his 'legacy,' not making the playoffs does not.

AIRMAR72
01-11-2013, 09:13 AM
Here is a list for you to compare and diminish Kobe from the rest of the league from a legacy standpoint. These players played more games than Kobe. Pick the ones with magical seasons that make Kobe look like he should be downgraded in his 17th season.

1 Robert Parish* Golden State Warriors, Boston Celtics, Charlotte Hornets, Chicago Bulls 21 1,611
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*[5] Milwaukee Bucks, Los Angeles Lakers 20 1,560
3 John Stockton* Utah Jazz 19 1,504
4 Karl Malone* Utah Jazz, Los Angeles Lakers 19 1,476
5 Kevin Willis† Atlanta Hawks, Miami Heat, Golden State Warriors, Houston Rockets, Toronto Raptors, Denver Nuggets, Houston, San Antonio Spurs, Atlanta, Dallas Mavericks 21 1,424
6 Reggie Miller* Indiana Pacers 18 1,389
7 Clifford R. Robinson† Portland Trail Blazers, Phoenix Suns, Detroit Pistons, Golden State Warriors, New Jersey Nets 18 1,380
8 Jason Kidd^ Dallas Mavericks, Phoenix Suns, New Jersey Nets, Dallas, New York Knicks 18+ 1,346
9 Gary Payton† Seattle SuperSonics, Milwaukee Bucks, Los Angeles Lakers, Boston Celtics, Miami Heat 17 1,335
10 Moses Malone* Buffalo Braves, Houston Rockets, Philadelphia 76ers, Washington Bullets, Atlanta Hawks, Milwaukee Bucks, Philadelphia, San Antonio Spurs 19 1,329
11 Buck Williams New Jersey Nets, Portland Trail Blazers, New York Knicks 17 1,307
12 Elvin Hayes* San Diego/Houston Rockets, Baltimore/Capital/Washington Bullets, Houston 16 1,303
13 Mark Jackson New York Knicks, Los Angeles Clippers, Indiana Pacers, Denver Nuggets, Indiana, Toronto Raptors, New York, Utah Jazz, Houston Rockets 17 1,296
14 Kevin Garnett^ Minnesota Timberwolves, Boston Celtics 17+ 1,290
15 Sam Perkins Dallas Mavericks, Los Angeles Lakers, Seattle SuperSonics, Indiana Pacers 17 1,286
16 Charles Oakley Chicago Bulls, New York Knicks, Toronto Raptors, Chicago, Washington Wizards, Houston Rockets 19 1,282
17 A.C. Green Los Angeles Lakers, Phoenix Suns, Dallas Mavericks, LA Lakers, Miami Heat 16 1,278
18 Terry Porter Portland Trail Blazers, Minnesota Timberwolves, Miami Heat, San Antonio Spurs 17 1,274
19 John Havlicek* Boston Celtics 16 1,270
20 Otis Thorpe Kansas City/Sacramento Kings, Houston Rockets, Portland Trail Blazers, Detroit Pistons, Vancouver Grizzlies, Sacramento, Washington Wizards, Miami Heat, Charlotte Hornets 17 1,257
21 Paul Silas St. Louis/Atlanta Hawks, Phoenix Suns, Boston Celtics, Denver Nuggets, Seattle SuperSonics 16 1,254
22 Hakeem Olajuwon* Houston Rockets, Toronto Raptors 18 1,238
23 Dale Ellis Dallas Mavericks, Seattle SuperSonics, Milwaukee Bucks, San Antonio Spurs, Denver Nuggets, Seattle 17 1,209
24 Shaquille O'Neal† Orlando Magic, Los Angeles Lakers, Miami Heat, Phoenix Suns, Cleveland Cavaliers, Boston Celtics 19 1,207
25 Juwan Howard† Washington Bullets/Wizards, Dallas Mavericks, Denver Nuggets, Orlando Magic, Houston Rockets, Dallas, Denver, Charlotte Bobcats, Portland Trail Blazers, Miami Heat 18 1,201
26-(T) Derek Harper Dallas Mavericks, New York Knicks, Dallas, Orlando Magic, Los Angeles Lakers 16 1,199
26-(T) Eddie A. Johnson Kansas City/Sacramento Kings, Phoenix Suns, Seattle SuperSonics, Charlotte Hornets, Indiana Pacers, Houston Rockets 17 1,199

kobe rode the bench his 1st 3yrs in the league kobe couldnt beat-out eddie jones, so they traded eddie so kobe can play

Raidaz4Life
01-11-2013, 09:19 AM
Kobe isn't the problem on the team, its a poorly built team using a coach that doesn't have the pieces to implement his offense. Its like having a bunch of extremely valuable uncut diamonds and using string and glue to make them into a "necklace". It doesn't make them any less valuable but they are definitely not an aesthetically pleasing piece of jewelry.

RowBTrice
01-11-2013, 09:58 AM
absolutely it does.

SouthSideRookie
01-11-2013, 10:25 AM
Disagree. Sure he is putting up good numbers, but he isn't helping his team win.

Take last night for example. A kobe contested 26 footer to tie is not a good ****. Mike d could have drawn up a nice play for clark or nash, but kobe wasn't letting anyone else take that shot, regardless of how awful the attempt was.

Thats just one example, and it happens a lot. Just becuase kobe is putting up big numbers, doesn't mean he is helping his team win games.

http://i.imgur.com/kytiY.jpg


I like how you conveniently leave out the fact that those 3 other allstars have been hurt the majority of the season. Or they have no backup pg. And how you left out the fact that they've had 3 different coaches this season.

But Im sure you're right, Kobe needs to find a way to make guys like Duhon, Sacre, and Morris better!

Remember when LA fans were boasting about the Lakers getting Dwight without having to trade Pau. This is what the Lakers signed up for, a "stacked" starting lineup without much depth.

eugene
01-11-2013, 12:08 PM
If they don't make the playoffs, it will be the funniest thing over the last 20 years or so :D somehow they remind me a bit those Olajuwon-Barkley-Drexler/Pippen "All-Star" teams winning nothing... just being too old, too fat, too lazy and especially too arrogant...

Pluvious
01-11-2013, 01:43 PM
Why would anyone blame Kobe?

Everyone for the past two years has said that Howard is the better player. Wouldn't this tarnish his legacy seeing as how he is in his prime?

How about Gasol? Everyone said that he was the most important player when they won their rings because he had higher win shares per 48. Does this tarnish his legacy because he is closer to his prime years than Kobe is.

How about Nash? He has won 2 MVP's and is well know to make things easier on his teammates? A far better teammate than Bryant you would all say. Does his legacy take a hit because he cant make these hall of famers better?

If Kobe is what all of you guys have always said he is, he is just a back up singer. You cant give all the credit to the other guys and say they are the better players or more important when Kobe is when he is winning rings and blame everything on Kobe when things are not going right. Choose a side and stick with it.

If the Lakes don't turn it around they are all to blame.

Kobe, Nash, Gasol, and Dwight for leadership. Dwight and Howard for effort.

However, after watching the last 2 games the Lakers have played without their bigs I don't blame Nash for making the team "work" offensively yet. Howard and Gasol just SUCK on offense right now. Whether it is effort, injury, or confidence they are a problem offensively.

The bench bigs of Earl Clark and Sacre have looked better in the offense overall...although they don't have the physical skills offensively to actually be "weapons". Those two need to pick it up the most.

Fired-Up
01-11-2013, 02:12 PM
Why can't we acknowledge that hey all Kobe does is score? That's all he does and that holds true for most of his career. Take the great bigs off the team and now we see they did all the dirty work for Kobe.

Not hating, but being honest.

LeperMessiah
01-11-2013, 05:07 PM
No.

beliges
01-11-2013, 07:22 PM
Why can't we acknowledge that hey all Kobe does is score? That's all he does and that holds true for most of his career. Take the great bigs off the team and now we see they did all the dirty work for Kobe.

Not hating, but being honest.

Throughout his career? Kobe is one of the best perimeter defenders ever. Certainly not anymore. But with that said, he is one of the best rebounding and passing SGs. Even this season, he's still one of the absolute best passers and rebounders at his position. I think you are attributing his team's performance to his performance which is simply unfounded as his teammates have been severely under performing while Kobe is playing at a substantially high level.

el hidalgo
01-11-2013, 07:58 PM
how does losing with 2 different super teams NOT tarnish his legacy? It is a testament to his ability to win. IMO he drops a few spots and is definitively outside of the top 10, but that is it.

beasted86
01-11-2013, 11:59 PM
Player wise, no. But intangibles, hell yes. It really makes a statement on how much of a leader he really is since people loved to sing that before on 'how he makes players around him better'.

Kind of makes it seem like Phil played a larger role in the leadership and he wasn't just the Zen master playing the background to Kobe as the vocal leader.