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View Full Version : Was Mike Brown firing the worst firing of an NBA coach ever?



Sssmush
01-09-2013, 07:17 PM
I do realize the Lakers were running bad at the start of the season... and I do like Mike Dantoni. Unlike many Laker fans I have not bashed or complained about Dantoni at all, I feel like his system can be very good and it is exciting to see Kobe play in this kind of wide open system, and I am grateful for that.

However, just based on wins and losses, and where the team has now ended up... I'm starting to wonder if canning Mike Brown 5 games into the season might be in retrospect the WORST firing of an NBA coach in history.

I cannot help but think that Mike Brown would have this team on a more even keel than it is currently; the defense would be better, and the post offense might be better as well. In any case, with the continuity of the same coach, the team would've gradually come together and there is NO WAY it would be 15-19 at this stage of the game.

If the Lakers had kept Mike Brown... I mean, even people who can't stand Mike Brown should realize, if the Lakers had kept him, they'd almost surely be like 22-12 or something like that right now.

Firing him so fast and so early, and bringing in Dantoni on one leg right after major surgery, it just seems like we threw away a bunch of games right off the bat. And now everyone is starting to think maybe this is just a lost season so we don't have to fight that hard, just let the ship go down and figure it out in the summer. Even Nash in that new msnbc article kind of hinted at that tone.

This is just a mess, maybe the worst Laker season on record, especially considering the expectations, and I don't see how it wouldn't be considerably better if they had rode it out with Mike Brown.

sixer04fan
01-09-2013, 07:21 PM
Never thought he should've been fired. It was completely ridiculous. Total panic move. It was honestly a joke.

Eg714
01-09-2013, 07:22 PM
It was a good firing, just a poor hiring in Pringles.

Sssmush
01-09-2013, 07:24 PM
Never thought he should've been fired. It was completely ridiculous. Total panic move. It was honestly a joke.

I know, right? Like this team is so super great, expectations are so super high, that if they lose 4 out of their first 6 games we're just going to instantly fire the head coach, because he is preventing us from our 72 win season or whatever.

And now, honestly, at this point it's hard to imagine this team even making the playoffs. And if they do, so what? They'll get absolutely drilled by Houston, Memphis, San Antonio, OKC, almost any other WC team.

The goods
01-09-2013, 07:27 PM
It was a good firing, just a poor hiring in Pringles.

This, if we had hired Phil nobody would be saying this.

DallasTrilla23
01-09-2013, 07:31 PM
I don't think it was a good move because it didn't really solve the problem. The lakers are still underperforming.

Hardaway Here
01-09-2013, 07:38 PM
They gave him no room to work with 5 games is panic city. He is a defensive coach and what do the Lakers lack... just saying

Alayla
01-09-2013, 07:40 PM
Regardless of the Lakers Record it was an awful firing u just don't fire a head coach 5 games into an NBA season it sends the message to the players they they don't need to be accountable for themselves.

BIG worm
01-09-2013, 07:44 PM
Mike Brown was a terrible hire to begin with... Dantoni , same thing.

Cal827
01-09-2013, 07:46 PM
The Firing would have only been somewhat justified if the Lakers had got Jackson to coach again.

ThaDubs
01-09-2013, 07:47 PM
The Lakers went from a defensive coach to an offensive coach (not to mention a ******** one).
They need to get a well rounded coach who knows how to get the team working together instead of giving Kobe the ball and improvising.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
01-09-2013, 07:47 PM
Was he a terrible coach? Yes, but he should have gotten more than 5 games.

abe_froman
01-09-2013, 07:52 PM
It was a good firing, just a poor hiring in Pringles.

this.phil was open and the owner blew it...for whatever reason.

and can we stop with the over using of "ever", "of all time" ,ect. when making threads now

YoungOne
01-09-2013, 07:56 PM
stop these dumb " the worst ever.." kind of threads

BIG worm
01-09-2013, 08:01 PM
stop these dumb " the worst ever.." kind of threads

i see that and i think to myself must be under 20 yrs of age.

3RDASYSTEM
01-09-2013, 08:03 PM
You dont fire a junior high to college d1-d111 in 5 games ever

let alone at the so called highest and professional level you can get

borderline travesty, even more borderline the expectations of winning big and easy

CoffeeJanitor
01-09-2013, 08:11 PM
In NBA history? WTF are you smoking OP?

Also, like someone said above, good firing (though should have been done before the season started), bad hiring.

LOOTERX9
01-09-2013, 08:18 PM
NO but the hiring of mike dantoni is the worst move ever

TheNumber37
01-09-2013, 08:23 PM
They Should have hired Brian Shaw.
They didn't and then should have hired Mike D and forced Mike B on an as assistant.
I fully expect Mike D to get fired over the Summer.

ManRam
01-09-2013, 08:26 PM
I was one of the few defending Brown. However, he was never a good hire in the first place. Should he have been fired so early in the season with such a new and different roster? I didn't think so. Was D'Antoni a good replacement? I didn't think so.

Worst ever? I don't know if I can gauge that. But I maintain that it wasn't a fair move to him. If they got Phil, or a better coach than D'Antoni (again, at the time offense wasn't the issue, even without Nash playing), then the firing would have made sense.

But this was such a lateral move...and that's not a good thing.

king4day
01-09-2013, 08:53 PM
I'm not a fan of polls that put your 'reasoning' in there for you.
I put no but not that it was a "brilliant strategy".

I don't think it was long ago that LA fans weren't keen on him anyway.
Did they act too quick? Sure. They expected to get Phil and it didn't workout.

mjt20mik
01-09-2013, 09:03 PM
Firing happened way to soon, and Mike D's system does not fit with Kobe

sventhedog
01-09-2013, 09:06 PM
no question d'antoni hasn't done a good job with the team but i doubt mike brown could've done better.

in my opinion, the front office should've done a better job of getting better pieces. e.g. getting 2 slow pg's who are not good defenders or hiring a coach who prefers smaller, faster players.

blastmasta26
01-09-2013, 09:06 PM
I don't know about worst ever, but I think the timing of it was terrible. Brown isn't a good coach so that helps the move, but they may need to tailor the roster to suit D'Antoni's offense to further justify the situation.

Verbal Christ
01-09-2013, 09:13 PM
Jesus H ****ing Christ!! When will people on this site stop using superlatives when dealing with the most mundane and redundant situations?? God damn it.

and the poll 'answers' are probably the most infantile collection of choices 'i've ever seen' .... see what i did there? probably not.

BHF
01-09-2013, 09:16 PM
you cant coach a team when you are not respected by the players and they players have more say than you do

Sssmush
01-09-2013, 10:06 PM
i see that and i think to myself must be under 20 yrs of age.

Well... Can you give an example of a WORSE firing of an NBA head coach? Anybody?

Everybody's quick to snark about the hyperbole of a title, but I'm fairly certain that nobody can come up with an objectively worse NBA firing. Sorry. Put up or shut up.

Nobody has given any counter-examples. I'm sure there must be some coach in 1970 or something on an NBA or ABA team who was fired 5 games into the season with a 20% winning percentage (1-4), and then was paid $10M dollars for the next two years, and this after a second round playoff exit the previous year.

Perhaps there is a better example? And then the new coach is hired for a significant salary and is highly unpopular, and then the team continues tanking in the most uninspired and lackadaisical way, and drops to 15-19, showing no signs of improvement, even though it is regarded as possibly the most talented roster in the NBA.

Firing Mike Brown is quickly turning into a DISASTER. And since the team and fans apparently didn't give Mike Brown ANY credit for getting the productivity and wins out of this team that he did last year, this is quickly becoming a huge, obvious embarassment because clearly, CLEARLY Dantoni cannot do any better, and by the end of the season might turn out to be significantly worse, seeing as the offensive balance is getting out of whack and the team isn't playing defense.

Sssmush
01-10-2013, 03:09 AM
See, I mean, that pretty much answers my question for me, I don't think anybody can really bring up any kind of a valid comparison.

So, considering

A. cost of buyout

B. previous season's record (solid winning record in a first year strike season. Disappointing second round loss in playoffs to best team, all games close)

C. rapport with team (decent)

D. compatibility with personnel (very decent. A low post offense and a defense oriented scheme)

E. Fact that buyout bizarrely occurred 5 games into the season, one of the earliest if not the earliest firings in NBA history

F. fact that the subsequent pursuit and jilting at the alter of Phil Jackson, and the subsequent hiring of Mike Dantoni was very unpopular with many/most LA fans

G. Lakers atrocious current record at the 34 game mark, as we approach the All Star
break

H. fact that the team is not improving, not motivated or disciplined, and that, amazingly, Dantoni is actually starting to "lose" the team already, after just 29 games.

Taking into account all those factors, I will say again that I think the Mike Brown firing is (perhaps)
THE WORST FIRING OF AN NBA COACH IN THE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE.

can you hear me in the back?

c.c.
01-10-2013, 03:37 AM
Firing coaches for nothing is at an all time high. I still feel bad for SVG but he probably wouldn't wanna coach this current Magic team anyways

Avenged
01-10-2013, 03:40 AM
Nope. He was a bad hire from the start and wasn't doing anything with the roster. Don't see how that can be considered worst ever. It's not like he was doing a great job.

LAL ****ed up right after going after Pringles though. These 2 dudes can't manage ego's. Honestly, how many times is this going to be discussed?

oh and nice poll options.

305 till I die
01-10-2013, 03:57 AM
Well deserved firing, he shouldn't have implemented a Princeton offense with that team.

COOLbeans
01-10-2013, 04:07 AM
This, if we had hired Phil nobody would be saying this.

And if they had still lost with Phil?

JasonJohnHorn
01-10-2013, 05:08 AM
I wouldn't say it was brilliant, but Brown was not the right man for the job. Neither though is 'Antoni. Brown shouldn't have even been hired in the first place, nor should have 'Antoni. I'm not sure as to what the thought process was behind either hiring.


Worst firings of all time? I gotta say the Raptors have fired a couple of guys without just cause. First, Lenny Wilkens, a HOF coach agrees to come to Toronto when they couldn't get any great experience coaches in, gets them their first playoff series victory, coaches them to within a basket of the conference finals (which they would have won), and then gets fired because the team has a losing record during a season in which the Raptors set an NBA record for most games missed due to injury. I mean, I do realize that 24-58 is awful, but if you consider the fact that they were starting guys who were on ten-day contracts and only had one practice with the team, it is pretty amazing that the Raptors didn't set the record for most losses in a season. Then they get a good young coach who guides them back into the playoffs (back-to-back appearances, not to mention their first division titles EVER), and he wins COY, and then they turn around and fire him because he starts of the season 8-9? Seriously? Twenty games into the season and you fire him for being at .500 with a sub .500 teams? Then they bring in Jay Triano who goes on to coach them to a 25-40 record? I understand that Mitchell may have caused some tension and butted heads, but bottom line, he was doing a good job for the Raptors. And even with a free agent signing and a lottery pick the next season, Triano couldn't get the Raps into the playoffs. I'd say the Raptors dropped the ball twice on coaches who were doing a good job.


I think the Doug Collins firing was one of the worst firings of all time. The guy coached the team for three seasons and each season got further in the playoffs, and even in his third season, after some controversial off-season trades that upset the team's chemistry, he managed to get things together. And the following season the team does no better and fails again in the conference finals to the same team despite having players like Grant and Pippen who had both improved and two first-round draft picks added to the mix in BJ Armstrong and Stacey King.

Mike Brown was fired because he was doing a bad job. He had done a bad job the season before. That Lakers roster should have been in the finals. No teams can match-up with Gasol and Bynum.... most teams don't even have one All-Star big, let alone two, but Brown didn't know how to get them involved.

Worst firing ever? No. Not by a long shot, though it was one of the worst hiring in recent memory (though not as bad a hiring as 'Antoni).

kobebabe
01-10-2013, 05:42 AM
Replacing him with pringles is what makes it look so bad. Otherwise wasn't a bad move to hire potato head to begin with, so wasn't a bad idea to get rid of him either....js

Sssmush
01-10-2013, 06:50 AM
I wouldn't say it was brilliant, but Brown was not the right man for the job. Neither though is 'Antoni. Brown shouldn't have even been hired in the first place, nor should have 'Antoni. I'm not sure as to what the thought process was behind either hiring.


Worst firings of all time? I gotta say the Raptors have fired a couple of guys without just cause. First, Lenny Wilkens, a HOF coach agrees to come to Toronto when they couldn't get any great experience coaches in, gets them their first playoff series victory, coaches them to within a basket of the conference finals (which they would have won), and then gets fired because the team has a losing record during a season in which the Raptors set an NBA record for most games missed due to injury. I mean, I do realize that 24-58 is awful, but if you consider the fact that they were starting guys who were on ten-day contracts and only had one practice with the team, it is pretty amazing that the Raptors didn't set the record for most losses in a season. Then they get a good young coach who guides them back into the playoffs (back-to-back appearances, not to mention their first division titles EVER), and he wins COY, and then they turn around and fire him because he starts of the season 8-9? Seriously? Twenty games into the season and you fire him for being at .500 with a sub .500 teams? Then they bring in Jay Triano who goes on to coach them to a 25-40 record? I understand that Mitchell may have caused some tension and butted heads, but bottom line, he was doing a good job for the Raptors. And even with a free agent signing and a lottery pick the next season, Triano couldn't get the Raps into the playoffs. I'd say the Raptors dropped the ball twice on coaches who were doing a good job.


I think the Doug Collins firing was one of the worst firings of all time. The guy coached the team for three seasons and each season got further in the playoffs, and even in his third season, after some controversial off-season trades that upset the team's chemistry, he managed to get things together. And the following season the team does no better and fails again in the conference finals to the same team despite having players like Grant and Pippen who had both improved and two first-round draft picks added to the mix in BJ Armstrong and Stacey King.

Mike Brown was fired because he was doing a bad job. He had done a bad job the season before. That Lakers roster should have been in the finals. No teams can match-up with Gasol and Bynum.... most teams don't even have one All-Star big, let alone two, but Brown didn't know how to get them involved.

Worst firing ever? No. Not by a long shot, though it was one of the worst hiring in recent memory (though not as bad a hiring as 'Antoni).

ok, those are all good points. Now that I think of it, wasn't Larry Brown fired from Detroit under some weird circumstances as well?

Alright, yeah. This season is so strange though... I mean seriously, if Mike Brown was still the coach, the Lakers' record would probably be +10 games over where it is right now.

And this team seems to be getting worse right now, no signs of slowing down. So, by this rash Mike Brown firing, which cost 10 or 12 million dollars, the team has managed to destabilize itself, alienate and anger the fans because of the lame flirtation with the Phil-meister, put the longterm signing of DH12 into question, waste one of Kobe's best seasons, dissolve all of Gasol's considerable trade value so they'll proabably have to eat his $40M contract, managed to get the team playing worse, and launched the team into a series of losing streaks, including a 4 game losing streak right now as they head into a very tough section of their schedule (OKC, Memphis, SA, etc) where they might easily go 1-8 or 0-9, and are now incredibly on the brink of mathematical elimination from the playoffs in January.

So, regardless, people can say "hey, no big loss, Mike Brown wasn't doing a good job anyway, so how can it be bad?"

But remember, Mike Brown had the Cavs in the ECFs and the Finals, and put together some very strong seasons in Cleveland. And right now after arbitrarily firing Mike Brown the Lakers are getting ready right now to take a HUGE bite out of the crappiest and most disappointing Laker season perhaps ever.

This Laker team just doesn't seem to be able to get off the ground, and as a pilot Dantoni now seems totally helpless and clueless. So the fact that they ditched MB after 5 games is pretty astonishing and it's about to get extremely costly in about 10 more games when the Lakers will likely be 17-27 and totally ****ed.

2-ONE-5
01-10-2013, 04:17 PM
didnt the Bucks just fire Skilies while they have a winning record?

Sssmush
01-10-2013, 07:49 PM
didnt the Bucks just fire Skilies while they have a winning record?

Do the Bucks even exist?

evadatam5150
01-10-2013, 07:58 PM
I do realize the Lakers were running bad at the start of the season... and I do like Mike Dantoni. Unlike many Laker fans I have not bashed or complained about Dantoni at all, I feel like his system can be very good and it is exciting to see Kobe play in this kind of wide open system, and I am grateful for that.

However, just based on wins and losses, and where the team has now ended up... I'm starting to wonder if canning Mike Brown 5 games into the season might be in retrospect the WORST firing of an NBA coach in history.

I cannot help but think that Mike Brown would have this team on a more even keel than it is currently; the defense would be better, and the post offense might be better as well. In any case, with the continuity of the same coach, the team would've gradually come together and there is NO WAY it would be 15-19 at this stage of the game.

If the Lakers had kept Mike Brown... I mean, even people who can't stand Mike Brown should realize, if the Lakers had kept him, they'd almost surely be like 22-12 or something like that right now.

Firing him so fast and so early, and bringing in Dantoni on one leg right after major surgery, it just seems like we threw away a bunch of games right off the bat. And now everyone is starting to think maybe this is just a lost season so we don't have to fight that hard, just let the ship go down and figure it out in the summer. Even Nash in that new msnbc article kind of hinted at that tone.

This is just a mess, maybe the worst Laker season on record, especially considering the expectations, and I don't see how it wouldn't be considerably better if they had rode it out with Mike Brown.

In my opinion it was a justified firing.. The problem wasn't letting Brown go, the problem was bringing in the wrong guy with the obvious wrong system fir the team that was assembled.. Let's not forget that Brown made some pretty glaring personnel moves..

JasonJohnHorn
01-10-2013, 09:26 PM
ok, those are all good points. Now that I think of it, wasn't Larry Brown fired from Detroit under some weird circumstances as well?


The Larry Brown "firing" was mutual from what I heard. Brown had alluded to comments about retiring and looking for a front office job, the rumour was with Cleveland at the time, and the rumour was swirling around during the playoffs, which some (especially in Detroit) felt was distracting since the team was trying to win a championship and Brown was being asked about working in Cleveland and wasn't really responding in a way that indicated he was focused on winning with the Pistons. In the offseason though, Detroit (I think Joe Dumars specifically) was quite upset with Brown's open flirtation with the Cavs and so agreed to a buy out. Before seven days had gone by Brown had signed with the Knicks to coach them.

It's funny, Brown only got 54 wins out of Detroit each season he was there, but still managed back-to-back finals appearance, while Flip Saunders got 64 wins out of the team (with a couple players gone). That is also around the time Brown coached the olympic team to a bronze metal.

Brown has always burned bridges though. He left the Spurs mid season to coach the Clippers, he left his first NBA coaching job with less than 10 games left in the season after he had agreed to coach a college team.

Cracka2HI!
01-11-2013, 02:42 AM
I was going to start a thread, but then I saw this. I think Brown may have been on to something with the Princeton offense. He had the slowest most skilled team. On the other hand Antoni is trying to take that skilled team and try to out athlete the other team. I think the hiring of D'Antoni makes the firing look worse. The real story is how poor of a hiring D'Antoni was.

Sssmush
01-11-2013, 08:12 PM
I was going to start a thread, but then I saw this. I think Brown may have been on to something with the Princeton offense. He had the slowest most skilled team. On the other hand Antoni is trying to take that skilled team and try to out athlete the other team. I think the hiring of D'Antoni makes the firing look worse. The real story is how poor of a hiring D'Antoni was.

yes. At the time of the switch, emotionally, I felt like it was a great move.

I wasn't on board with the hiring of Phil Jackson, simply because we've already seen an absolute ton of Phil Jackson this century, and I wanted to see something new.

Also, because we had this new "super team" put together, with the flashy free-form pick and roll point guard and all that, I didn't want to see the team squeezed back into the Phil Jackson mold that it had begun to escape from last season, turning Steve Nash into Derek Fisher essentially. Also, I didn't want Phil Jackson to just swoop in and get all the credit for "taking" this team to the Finals, when I felt that all they needed was a coach (like Bickerstaff showed) who could just roll out the ball and let them play.

I was actually excited about the Dantoni hiring, because I felt that he brought a lot of top notch cutting edge offensive technology to the team, and would turbocharge the offense in a lot of exciting ways. I also figured they would have a defensive assistant coach who would make sure they were getting it done on defense.

At this point though it's in such disarray, and, despite the sunny Laker articles and interviews this week, it is very likely to get worse in the near term. The Lakers will probably get drilled by OKC tonight, and may lose another 4 straight this week. I mean, this is bad. This is really bad. And that is why I was thinking "wow" like if we still had Mike Brown, we would NEVER be in this bad of shape as a team. It's just impossible. Mike Brown would've talked to them somehow, gotten through to them, just never would've accepted this.

Honestly Dantoni has become this kind of fancy-pants ivory tower coach who somehow is actually cheery and relaxed as all this is going on. But this is the Lakers. It's just so bad right now... I mean I was framing through a dvr recording of the Spurs game... I could analyze it a bit for you, but basically on defense it's like everyone is back on their heels and moving half speed. Metta leaves his man to try and cover two other guys in the key, and then his man or somebody else shoots a wide open 3. Popovich was able to have his very best shooters wide open from 3 anytime he wanted. I myself don't know how to fix all that, but I could see some fundamental things that a coach might say to a team or demand of a team.

No illusions here, getting ready to miss the playoffs right about now

Bishnoff
01-11-2013, 08:38 PM
No.

Sssmush
01-11-2013, 11:45 PM
No.

Again, I really just think that there are very, very few concrete examples that you or anyone can give that have actually turned out worse than the Mike Brown firing and this current Laker season have.

ohreally
01-12-2013, 02:59 AM
Lakers were actually pretty bad last year, with Bynum playing. Brown was not going work out.

Problem is that Mitch thought he was getting a Nash that has been a rare sighting and a Howard who really hasn't been sighted yet. D'Antoni would be looking better if those two guys were what they thought they were getting. Yeah, still would have been an old team, but still would have done better with a modified d'Antoni offense than they were doing with Brown.

Still think D'Antoni and the current Nets team may have been most tailor made for each other, but that's another story.

As it's working out, Nash and Howard are looking like Mitch's version of Isiah's Marbs and Eddy Curry/Jerome James. Extreme a bit maybe, but they were signings hat seemed good a the time and wound up being very bad indeed.

DumDum
02-11-2013, 01:25 AM
yes

Celtics33
02-11-2013, 01:24 PM
I don't believe that the firing of mike brown was the worst firing ever, but the hiring of mike d and the atrocious play under him has made mike brown look much better in contrast.

topdog
02-11-2013, 01:47 PM
Mike Brown should have never been hired. His firing led to a string of wins under Bickerstaff. The mistake was the D'Antoni hiring, not the Brown firing.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
02-11-2013, 01:49 PM
Please don't bump threads from a month ago.