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View Full Version : Why doesn't John Stockton get more love?



RandyRandy
01-08-2013, 08:39 PM
He is the all time leader in two categories: Steals and assists. No one is even close to his all time assist record and Kidd is about 600 behind him in steals. You always hear about Magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas, Oscar Robinson, and Gary Payton (rightfully so), but never Stockton.

The man has kept himself out the limelight after his career, however he was the best point guard of his era and he helped make Karl Malone what he is...

Thoughts?

seikou8
01-08-2013, 08:40 PM
no rings /thread

PlezPlayDKnicks
01-08-2013, 08:41 PM
Because he wasn't flashy. That dude was dirty as hell but he's a winner.

Hawkeye15
01-08-2013, 08:44 PM
no rings, and never had a year or two period where he was just unreal. His unreal longevity, and sheer numbers put him way up there, but he is behind Magic for sure, and then stacked in there with a handful of other PG's as far as rankings go.

RandyRandy
01-08-2013, 08:52 PM
no rings, and never had a year or two period where he was just unreal. His unreal longevity, and sheer numbers put him way up there, but he is behind Magic for sure, and then stacked in there with a handful of other PG's as far as rankings go.

So his 1990 season when he averaged over 17 points, 14 assists, and 3 steals isn't unreal?

Chris Paul, Steve Nash, and Jason Kidd never had a season like that.

His defense was vastly underrated and I know people argue that he was dirty but at 6 feet tall that just the way it was for a guy like him in the days of handchecking.

Hawkeye15
01-08-2013, 08:55 PM
So his 1990 season when he averaged over 17 points, 14 assists, and 3 steals isn't unreal?

Chris Paul, Steve Nash, and Jason Kidd never had a season like that.

His defense was vastly underrated and I know people argue that he was dirty but at 6 feet tall that just the way it was for a guy like him in the days of handchecking.

there were better players that year though is what I am saying. At no point was Stockton considered a top 3-4 player in the league. Trust me, I am a huge Stockton fan, and I do think he gets overlooked, but its not like true fans don't appreciate him. He simply wasn't polarizing, not flashy, played in a market with no media, and fell victim to all of that, on top of never winning a chip.

Hawkeye15
01-08-2013, 08:58 PM
I think CP3's 08-09' season rivals Stockton's 89-90' season btw. Better in fact..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=stockjo01&y1=1990&p2=paulch01&y2=2009

Fired-Up
01-08-2013, 09:00 PM
Point Guards. Especially those in the older eras just didn't impact the game like bigs and wings. That was the mailman's team and everyone knew it.

TheNumber37
01-08-2013, 09:03 PM
He never one a ring, played 2nd fiddle to Karl Malone, but mostly because He is not around the game. I remember giving some Lessons to Dwill early on, but he really needs to Coach or be a GM or something.

Rylz
01-08-2013, 09:05 PM
4 Reasons:
Never won a championship
Not very good for a highlight reel
Never the best player on his team
Played in Salt Lake City

You change any one of those factors and he'd be a lot more well known (can you imagine if Stockton had played for the Lakers?), but all of those things hurt his popularity. The guy is practically worshiped in Utah, though.

joseph aka Jman
01-08-2013, 09:09 PM
Point Guards. Especially those in the older eras just didn't impact the game like bigs and wings. That was the mailman's team and everyone knew it.

The Magic Man :confused:

ThaDubs
01-08-2013, 09:15 PM
So his 1990 season when he averaged over 17 points, 14 assists, and 3 steals isn't unreal?

Chris Paul, Steve Nash, and Jason Kidd never had a season like that.

His defense was vastly underrated and I know people argue that he was dirty but at 6 feet tall that just the way it was for a guy like him in the days of handchecking.

CP3 had a year on the Hornets where he averaged 23 points, 11 assists, 6 rebounds, 3 steals.

Fired-Up
01-08-2013, 09:18 PM
The Magic Man :confused:

Really the only exception.

birdmann5
01-08-2013, 09:19 PM
I don't care how you get it done or where you play. He is one of the best to ever play the game. He deserves more love and respect. Tim Duncan will be known as the best PF ever and he is not flashy. Comparing him to Magic is unrealistic. Magic played the PG position and was physically gifted but he could have played any position. Put Magic in a 6 foot body frame to be fair to rank him with point guards. Magic and Lebron are better comparisons.

CityofTreez
01-08-2013, 09:24 PM
Don't know why?

I have the deepest respect for John Stockton. He played his last game in Arco Arena, they year we finally advanced against the Jazz. Arco Arena sent him out gloriously for an opposing arena. We gave him an extraordinary ovation, and respected the hell out of him. That was the 1st hump in the Sac Kings playoff spree, and Stockton, Malone, Hornacek were vicious.

Definitely one of my favorite NBA PG's...

Alayla
01-08-2013, 09:29 PM
Hes a top 3-4 PG of all time IMO

utahjazzno12fan
01-08-2013, 10:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6Owow-Unes

Ezio
01-08-2013, 10:46 PM
Point Guards. Especially those in the older eras just didn't impact the game like bigs and wings. That was the mailman's team and everyone knew it.

Gary Payton and Isiah Thomas say hi.

JasonJohnHorn
01-09-2013, 02:41 AM
Stockton gets lots of love from me... I say he is as good as Jordan, and people think I'm crazy...

tapajafri
01-09-2013, 02:43 AM
Don't know why?

I have the deepest respect for John Stockton. He played his last game in Arco Arena, they year we finally advanced against the Jazz. Arco Arena sent him out gloriously for an opposing arena. We gave him an extraordinary ovation, and respected the hell out of him. That was the 1st hump in the Sac Kings playoff spree, and Stockton, Malone, Hornacek were vicious.

Definitely one of my favorite NBA PG's...

I remember those days. Kings vs Jazz was one of the best rivalries in the league back in the late 90's and early 2000's.

MickeyMgl
01-09-2013, 02:51 AM
He is the all time leader in two categories: Steals and assists. No one is even close to his all time assist record and Kidd is about 600 behind him in steals. You always hear about Magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas, Oscar Robinson, and Gary Payton (rightfully so), but never Stockton.

I hear about John Stockton all the time.

Vincent33
01-09-2013, 02:52 AM
Who the **** is Oscar Robinson?


j/k I know he meant Robertson, unless he thought his name was Robinson. Then, oh my.


Stockton is good people. One of top 5 PGs to play the game IMO. And that's coming from a 5'10" white boy who played varsity in high school. So you know my opinion holds water :p

MickeyMgl
01-09-2013, 03:06 AM
I put him on par with Steve Nash. Stockton was far better defensively, but Nash slightly better offensively. (Nash was/is a better passer - notwithstanding career assist totals, and while both were/are great shooters, Nash is slightly better there).

The defensive difference is pretty significant, though. There were years you just couldn't dribble in the vicinity of Stockton.

8kobe24
01-09-2013, 04:22 AM
Probably because he wasn't flashy, couldn't dunk, and wore super short shorts in the 90's:D

utahjazzno12fan
01-09-2013, 06:59 AM
I don't see how you put him on par with Nash. He was better than Nash. Generally, he is considered a top 3 PG of all time. Magic is almost always mentioned as 1 with Thomas and Stockton battling for 2nd.

mjt20mik
01-09-2013, 07:12 AM
Probably because he wasn't flashy, couldn't dunk, and wore super short shorts in the 90's:D

This.

ESaady
01-09-2013, 08:24 AM
Stockton is great. Wasn't flashy by any means, but I love watching older Jazz games. Man, could he and The Mailman run the pick n roll or what??

ewing
01-09-2013, 10:25 AM
He's white

Manimal
01-09-2013, 11:51 AM
Any time a PG goes on an assist tear, Twitter goes #StocktonAlert

Same with rebounds and #MosesAlert

Say's it all really. These guys were the best at it.

Hellcrooner
01-09-2013, 11:54 AM
Second best Pg ever IMO.
(i consider Oscar an Sg)

HIs problem is ht elack of rings.

And that people is too focused on the scoring, since the FInisher to his passes was Karl M people think that Karl was the leader andhe was the second fiddle.

WRONG IMO.
IMO Stockton was the one wearing the pants.

Jarvo
01-09-2013, 11:58 AM
No rings

SlimKid
01-09-2013, 12:05 PM
I remember watching the Jazz as a kid, and even back then I never really considered Stockton the second fiddle to Malone. Malone was a beast in his own right but it always seemed like Stockton's "team" to me. Dude was unreal

JordansBulls
01-09-2013, 12:11 PM
Stockton gets lots of love from me... I say he is as good as Jordan, and people think I'm crazy...

You are if you believe this. Stockton was never the most productive player in the league and hardly ever was a MVP candidate. Loss at least 5-6 series with HCA with a player that is top 15 all time on his team as well.

sep11ie
01-09-2013, 12:12 PM
He's kinda like Patrick Swayze, if you weren't around to see him in his prime you don't respect him the same.

JordansBulls
01-09-2013, 12:13 PM
Stockton gets plenty of love he was ranked #18 on PSD's list

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=635088

sammyvine
01-09-2013, 03:49 PM
I think CP3's 08-09' season rivals Stockton's 89-90' season btw. Better in fact..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=stockjo01&y1=1990&p2=paulch01&y2=2009

it does. but cp3's lack of play off wins so far makes him overlooked at times.

its a bit like lebron with the cavs. the fact he never won a ring was always thrown at him.

dhopisthename
01-09-2013, 04:09 PM
because he was never really an mvp candidate. he was good and his longevity and health were amazing.

Bruno
01-09-2013, 04:12 PM
I think CP3's 08-09' season rivals Stockton's 89-90' season btw. Better in fact..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=stockjo01&y1=1990&p2=paulch01&y2=2009
vry interesting how mortal they both were come post season in those selected years.

COOLbeans
01-09-2013, 04:24 PM
The posters who bring up no titles, and no MVPs make a vital point. But you don't lead all time records in assists and steals without being dominant.

Stockton is a top 3 PG of all time behind Magic and Robertson

Magic
Robertson
Stockton
Thomas
Payton/Kidd
Other

Pistol_Pete
01-10-2013, 11:53 PM
He's an old school style player, with no championship, playing in Utah. That's pretty much why.

LongWayFromHome
01-11-2013, 01:15 AM
no rings, and never had a year or two period where he was just unreal. His unreal longevity, and sheer numbers put him way up there, but he is behind Magic for sure, and then stacked in there with a handful of other PG's as far as rankings go.

87-97 were pretty filthy, especially if you take his shooting percentages into account.

- He had 7 of the top 9 Total AST seasons in history and 5 out of the top 6 AST per game seasons in history. And him and the Jazz if I remember correctly played at a WAY lower pace than a lot of high assist guys have.

- 4 of the top 16 total STL seasons and 3 of the top 17 STL per game seasons in history

- 7 of the top 10 AST% seasons in history including the top 3 ever (CP3 4th and Nash 7th and 8th)

- His Shooting percentages as a PG are nash-esqu (FT a little worse)

- He regularly had ver high WS and W/48

- Led his team deep into the playoffs a lot

- Missed 4 games in 89-90 and 18 games in 97-98. Besides that he played 82 games every season from 84-03 (this is obv pointing more towards longevity than a great seasons but just thought i'd throw it in there)

I think he had a number of really impressive seasons.

ombada
01-11-2013, 02:00 AM
I give Stockton all my love. That guy was amazing.

YashBoone
01-11-2013, 08:09 AM
Stockton always got props from me.
Him and Malone were in their prime when I was a kid and I collected basketball cards.
I had a whole three ring binder with hundreds of cards, just dedicated to those two.

Lmao, people always gave me the Stockton cards. Nobody wanted them.

But, yeah he just wasn't a flashy dude so he has to get his props now, after he's far removed from the game.

PhillyFaninLA
01-11-2013, 08:29 AM
Who the **** is Oscar Robinson?


j/k I know he meant Robertson, unless he thought his name was Robinson. Then, oh my.


Stockton is good people. One of top 5 PGs to play the game IMO. And that's coming from a 5'10" white boy who played varsity in high school. So you know my opinion holds water :p

Your cooooll pointing out someone's typos so you can sound big. Witty and original I tell ya. Not an attention seeking thing to do at all.

koreancabbage
01-11-2013, 09:21 AM
no rings. I love him as a pg but he couldn't get a ring.

scottie
01-11-2013, 09:22 AM
Really the only exception.

You have a very low basketball I.Q. And you just proved it.

the unknown
01-11-2013, 09:29 AM
no personality, no ego, not recognizable, he just doesnt have the it factor as far as star persona is concerned.. look at harvin harrison one of the best wr in nfl history.. do u remember what he looks like ?

eugene
01-11-2013, 12:24 PM
being dirty these days is like a biggest sin... people don't respect players for being competitive and being warriors just like stockton was

Hawkeye15
01-11-2013, 03:26 PM
He's kinda like Patrick Swayze, if you weren't around to see him in his prime you don't respect him the same.

omg this is the best comparison ever! And I am being dead serious.

Hawkeye15
01-11-2013, 03:27 PM
vry interesting how mortal they both were come post season in those selected years.

both knocked out right away. And Paul was dealing with some injuries I believe, wasn't he?

blastmasta26
01-11-2013, 07:07 PM
Stockton gets lots of love from me... I say he is as good as Jordan, and people think I'm crazy...

I agree with those people.

Chronz
01-11-2013, 07:16 PM
He gets too much love

sep11ie
01-11-2013, 07:26 PM
omg this is the best comparison ever! And I am being dead serious.

I thought of you while I typed that.;)

Hawkeye15
01-11-2013, 08:12 PM
I thought of you while I typed that.;)

so you are aware of my complete man crush on the Swayze...

sep11ie
01-11-2013, 08:18 PM
I am, right there with you. <----highlight

iam brett favre
01-12-2013, 03:55 AM
Because he's white.
Really though, I dont think he wants the attention. He's the reason I am a Jazz fan.

ombada
01-12-2013, 06:21 AM
no rings. I love him as a pg but he couldn't get a ring.

That could be said about most teams/players that peaked in the prime Jordan era.

whitemamba33
01-12-2013, 12:51 PM
The "assist" has always interested me. The NBA's definition of an assist is kind of general, and teams tend to have higher assist percentage at home.

Lo Porto
01-12-2013, 01:11 PM
4 reasons:

1. He wasn't flashy or arrogant. If he was, he would have gotten more attention to how great he really was
2. Not winning at least one title hurt him (that wasn't his fault though - he was the best teammate you could ask for).
3. He was white and played in Utah.

Nobody really cares about you over the long haul unless you were overly flashy, won a lot of titles or played for one of the major franchises. It's a shame because he is the best pure PG of all time. His stats, longevity, and wins on a inferior roster prove that. He had Malone, but pretty much only Malone his entire career.

Fired-Up
01-12-2013, 01:49 PM
4 reasons:

1. He wasn't flashy or arrogant. If he was, he would have gotten more attention to how great he really was
2. Not winning at least one title hurt him (that wasn't his fault though - he was the best teammate you could ask for).
3. He was white and played in Utah.

Nobody really cares about you over the long haul unless you were overly flashy, won a lot of titles or played for one of the major franchises. It's a shame because he is the best pure PG of all time. His stats, longevity, and wins on a inferior roster prove that. He had Malone, but pretty much only Malone his entire career.

So the best pure point guard of all time wasn't even the best player on his roster. Malone was. Stockton played the point guard position like it's supposed to be. Your not supposed to be the "star" of the team. Ahem, Westbrook. Or Westjack shots.

It just comes down to the fact that Stockton was a point guard.

Jumi
01-12-2013, 02:08 PM
Stockton was a helluva basketball player! The fact that he didn't win a ring has nothing to do with the fact that he's the best pg I've ever seen. People say he wasn't the best player on his team but never wonder would Malone be as good without him. I got mad respect for Stockton.

Fired-Up
01-12-2013, 02:14 PM
Stockton was a helluva basketball player! The fact that he didn't win a ring has nothing to do with the fact that he's the best pg I've ever seen. People say he wasn't the best player on his team but never wonder would Malone be as good without him. I got mad respect for Stockton.

There just isn't any contest. Would you take the best point guard in the league or the best power forward? Obviously your going with Malone. It just wasn't Stockton's team.

Jamiecballer
01-12-2013, 02:22 PM
John Stockton was a boring white guy, both in style of play and personality, playing in a predominantly black league.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-12-2013, 07:39 PM
He gets a ton of respect from the guys that played with him or against him. That is probably all that matters in the end.

JayW_1023
01-12-2013, 09:18 PM
He played in the same era as MJ. It's tough to fault him for not getting any rings.

He arguably was a top 3 PG. Probably the model player for the position as Big O and Magic were more unconventional point men.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-12-2013, 09:38 PM
Stockton gets lots of love from me... I say he is as good as Jordan, and people think I'm crazy...

Jordan was Jordan. I couldnt stand the guy but he was the best I ever saw followed by Bird. I would take John Stockton over Pippen. Stockton was arguably the best half court QB at PG ever. The guy could shoot, was pretty fast, was an amazing passer, was great fundamentally, set picks and played defense. If all of today's efficiency ratings were around in his era he would have gotten even more respect. The coaches around the league knew how great the guy was.

R. Johnson#3
01-12-2013, 09:50 PM
Isn't he regarded as the best PG ever?