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AndyfromNeptune
01-04-2013, 10:14 AM
Do you think JR Smith has a chance to be 6th Man of the Year?

Check out his incredible dunk from last night too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ3X8lIH3mk

He's averaging 16.6 points per game, 2.8 assists, 5.2 rebounds, and 1.3 steals.

Unquestionably, he's a much better defender than Jamal Crawford.

In addition, he's done a much better job as a playmaker rather than just a scorer.

Finally, he's a much better rebounder especially defensively.

justinnum1
01-04-2013, 10:16 AM
lol

No.

AndyfromNeptune
01-04-2013, 10:18 AM
lol

No.

I disagree.

BK-TY
01-04-2013, 10:26 AM
I bet he makes the All-Star team too.

b@llhog24
01-04-2013, 10:26 AM
Kevin Martin says Hi.

Mr Grim
01-04-2013, 10:26 AM
lol

No.

says the guy with the Tannehill banner LOL

LongIslandIcedZ
01-04-2013, 10:29 AM
Does Jamal Crawford start?

If JR keeps playing this well, I don't see why he can't.

He's also up for best contract of the year lol

Hellcrooner
01-04-2013, 10:35 AM
if lowry goes on being the back up, he can probably take the award.

DanG
01-04-2013, 10:41 AM
1. Martin
2. Crawford
3. Smith

mjqusoldier
01-04-2013, 10:49 AM
Yea without a doubt he can be. He's also hit 2 walk off game winners and some more big shots on top of that. He has completely matured as a Bball player and now is the Knicks most versatile defender and player. So hate if u want but he's the 6th man of the year as of right now!

Monta is beast
01-04-2013, 10:49 AM
Jarret Jack, Carl Landry, Kevin Martin, Jamal Crawford, allot of competition for 6th man this year. So I doubt it.

b@llhog24
01-04-2013, 10:52 AM
lol

No.

Youre a ****ing a joke you know that right. Everyone on this forum does not take you seriously because we all know youre just a sad little man that has nothing better to do than sit on PSD ALL ****ING DAY and post your ********. Youre the king of one word responses just to boost your terribly sad post total and you generate nothing to a conversation ever. Sad sad sad sad.

I would love to hear everyones opinion on this subject and I respect everyones answer on the topic no matter what they feel, but you are just a blind **** homer that posts garbage and ******** on this forum. Youre right up there DoMeFavors, Cousinsevansduo and all the other terrible posters in this place.

Now do I think he'll win it, probably not because there are a lot of people having great seasons. However it is undeniable that Smith has been playing amazingly and certainly deserves to be in the conversation. He brings a ton to this team and has been having an all around great season.

:laugh2:

benzni
01-04-2013, 10:52 AM
I think he can. He has had a good year.

If anything, he needs to up his fg% but he has no doubt helped his team win games this year

Slug3
01-04-2013, 10:56 AM
He is having a good year and it helps that the Knicks are having a good year as well. I think he will be in the top 3, but I think Crawford looks to be the front runner at the moment.

Shawn2timer
01-04-2013, 10:57 AM
Its obvious most of you don't watch the guys that you're all talking about. Kevin Martin is one dimensional. Jr's competition will be Crawford (awful defense) and Jarret Jack (doesn't play enough in crunch time) as of right now of course. Honorable mention to Landry. JR leads so far

uprightciti
01-04-2013, 11:00 AM
1. Martin
2. Crawford
3. Smith

1. Smith
2. Crawford
3. Martin

GiantsSwaGG
01-04-2013, 11:02 AM
Youre a ****ing a joke you know that right. Everyone on this forum does not take you seriously because we all know youre just a sad little man that has nothing better to do than sit on PSD ALL ****ING DAY and post your ********. Youre the king of one word responses just to boost your terribly sad post total and you generate nothing to a conversation ever. Sad sad sad sad.

I would love to hear everyones opinion on this subject and I respect everyones answer on the topic no matter what they feel, but you are just a blind **** homer that posts garbage and ******** on this forum. Youre right up there DoMeFavors, Cousinsevansduo and all the other terrible posters in this place.

Now do I think he'll win it, probably not because there are a lot of people having great seasons. However it is undeniable that Smith has been playing amazingly and certainly deserves to be in the conversation. He brings a ton to this team and has been having an all around great season.

:laugh: damn are you trying to end his PSD career and his 100k post in 3 years streak?

GiantsSwaGG
01-04-2013, 11:03 AM
It's between Carl Landry and Jr Smith easily

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 11:03 AM
In terms of stats? No. In terms of importance to team from a 6th man POV he may be the most valuable one around. There are better 6th men around but not many who are more important to their team than Smith. Based on the history of the award it can honestly swing either way.

Dankster
01-04-2013, 11:05 AM
He's a much better player than Martin or Crawford. When you factor in their all-around games, I don't see how you can compare the 3 guys and not think JR is the best.

He's a much better rebounder than either guy and his defense is light years ahead of both players as well. All of them are putting up similar numbers offensively (JR and JC are a bit less efficient than Martin,) but when you factor in what they bring on both sides of the ball, it seems like a no brainer to me.

I never thought JR would morph into the consistent force he's turned into this year, but if he continues his strong play and continues his performance on both ends, I think he'll be a leading candidate for the award.

Dankster
01-04-2013, 11:07 AM
In terms of stats? No. In terms of importance to team from a 6th man POV he may be the most valuable one around. There are better 6th men around but not many who are more important to their team than Smith. Based on the history of the award it can honestly swing either way.

What do you mean by stats? As far as advanced metrics eFG% and TS% and the likes? Martin is the most efficient player of the 3 offensively, but he doesn't excel in as many facets of the game as JR does.

lvlheaded
01-04-2013, 11:14 AM
As of right now I give it to J-Crossover. But Smith is certainly up there, having a great season so far

D-Leethal
01-04-2013, 11:15 AM
Complete and utter ownage on Justin.

Quietmoney
01-04-2013, 11:16 AM
It seems like in this forum, the only thing people see is effiency. It doesn't end there, JR is the best overall player of any in the sixth man conversation. His defense tops Martin's and Crawford's by miles. JR Smith is becoming dominant and not only 6th man of the year, but one of the best shooting guards in the league.

Weezy
01-04-2013, 11:19 AM
Youre a ****ing a joke you know that right. Everyone on this forum does not take you seriously because we all know youre just a sad little man that has nothing better to do than sit on PSD ALL ****ING DAY and post your ********. Youre the king of one word responses just to boost your terribly sad post total and you generate nothing to a conversation ever. Sad sad sad sad.

I would love to hear everyones opinion on this subject and I respect everyones answer on the topic no matter what they feel, but you are just a blind **** homer that posts garbage and ******** on this forum. Youre right up there DoMeFavors, Cousinsevansduo and all the other terrible posters in this place.

Now do I think he'll win it, probably not because there are a lot of people having great seasons. However it is undeniable that Smith has been playing amazingly and certainly deserves to be in the conversation. He brings a ton to this team and has been having an all around great season.

Oh my. :laugh2:

mudvayne387
01-04-2013, 11:24 AM
Youre a ****ing a joke you know that right. Everyone on this forum does not take you seriously because we all know youre just a sad little man that has nothing better to do than sit on PSD ALL ****ING DAY and post your ********. Youre the king of one word responses just to boost your terribly sad post total and you generate nothing to a conversation ever. Sad sad sad sad.

I would love to hear everyones opinion on this subject and I respect everyones answer on the topic no matter what they feel, but you are just a blind **** homer that posts garbage and ******** on this forum. Youre right up there DoMeFavors, Cousinsevansduo and all the other terrible posters in this place.

Now do I think he'll win it, probably not because there are a lot of people having great seasons. However it is undeniable that Smith has been playing amazingly and certainly deserves to be in the conversation. He brings a ton to this team and has been having an all around great season.

Ha!

oak2455
01-04-2013, 11:30 AM
Kevin Martin says Hi.

Tell him I said hey

oak2455
01-04-2013, 11:33 AM
Youre a ****ing a joke you know that right. Everyone on this forum does not take you seriously because we all know youre just a sad little man that has nothing better to do than sit on PSD ALL ****ING DAY and post your ********. Youre the king of one word responses just to boost your terribly sad post total and you generate nothing to a conversation ever. Sad sad sad sad.

I would love to hear everyones opinion on this subject and I respect everyones answer on the topic no matter what they feel, but you are just a blind **** homer that posts garbage and ******** on this forum. Youre right up there DoMeFavors, Cousinsevansduo and all the other terrible posters in this place.

Now do I think he'll win it, probably not because there are a lot of people having great seasons. However it is undeniable that Smith has been playing amazingly and certainly deserves to be in the conversation. He brings a ton to this team and has been having an all around great season.
I like this guy

FreakaNashur
01-04-2013, 11:34 AM
It seems like in this forum, the only thing people see is effiency. It doesn't end there, JR is the best overall player of any in the sixth man conversation. His defense tops Martin's and Crawford's by miles. JR Smith is becoming dominant and not only 6th man of the year, but one of the best shooting guards in the league.
LOL WTF

you people act like his game is evolving, He's JR SMITH..he's gonna do what he do wouldn't be suprise if the award falls on his lap but i still have crawford as the main candidate.

They don't give the award for defense.

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 11:36 AM
Its obvious most of you don't watch the guys that you're all talking about. Kevin Martin is one dimensional. Jr's competition will be Crawford (awful defense) and Jarret Jack (doesn't play enough in crunch time) as of right now of course. Honorable mention to Landry. JR leads so far

:crazy: :laugh:

Jarrett Jack has made more clutch field goals (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2013&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q1=Y&q2=Y&q3=Y&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=2&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=0&margin_max=5&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg) for the Warriors this season than any other player.

DragonJaii
01-04-2013, 11:41 AM
Youre a ****ing a joke you know that right. Everyone on this forum does not take you seriously because we all know youre just a sad little man that has nothing better to do than sit on PSD ALL ****ING DAY and post your ********. Youre the king of one word responses just to boost your terribly sad post total and you generate nothing to a conversation ever. Sad sad sad sad.

I would love to hear everyones opinion on this subject and I respect everyones answer on the topic no matter what they feel, but you are just a blind **** homer that posts garbage and ******** on this forum. Youre right up there DoMeFavors, Cousinsevansduo and all the other terrible posters in this place.

Now do I think he'll win it, probably not because there are a lot of people having great seasons. However it is undeniable that Smith has been playing amazingly and certainly deserves to be in the conversation. He brings a ton to this team and has been having an all around great season.

pwned

Oldmantrash
01-04-2013, 11:42 AM
Smith deserves it so far, he's been great for them.
Guys been consistent for the first time in his life

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 11:43 AM
What do you mean by stats? As far as advanced metrics eFG% and TS% and the likes? Martin is the most efficient player of the 3 offensively, but he doesn't excel in as many facets of the game as JR does.

PER: Martin > JR
RAPM: Martin > JR
WS/48: Martin > JR

Those are just three added to those that you already mentioned. There is no question who is better in terms of stats.

AndyfromNeptune
01-04-2013, 11:43 AM
It's not even about scoring as much as it is JR's importance to the Knicks team.

The Knicks' offense would be anemic without JR.

FYL_McVeezy
01-04-2013, 11:45 AM
2 way race between him and Crawford. Who wins is anyone's guess at this point but JR has positioned himself well for the award with his play for the majority of this season so far.....

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 11:48 AM
It's not even about scoring as much as it is JR's importance to the Knicks team.

The Knicks' offense would be anemic without JR.

Thing is you didn't say that in your initial post. You made your point based on his statistical production. I can get on board in terms of the importance to team argument not so much the stats as compared to his peers.

knicksfan42
01-04-2013, 11:58 AM
Thing is you didn't say that in your initial post. You made your point based on his statistical production. I can get on board in terms of the importance to team argument not so much the stats as compared to his peers.

Jr's defense is better than all of those player and, with the exception of Jack, does something other than score.

Becks2307
01-04-2013, 12:08 PM
JR's defense has been absolutely ridiculous this season. Light years ahead of Kevin Martin and J Craw. I thought Crawford was running away with it but JR is scoring at the same clip while doing so much more. It's absolutely amazing how much of a better player JR has become, hell i wanna give him most improved too.

Shot selection, team work, defense, rebounding, hustle plays, he is doing it all.

Honestly I just looked at the stats he is def ahead of J craw. Crawford is averaging the same points, shooting the same percentage but doing alot less on the glass and assists as well as obviously not the defender JR has been.

I advise anyone with preconceived notions about JR to watch him this season, he is a changed man.

heyman321
01-04-2013, 12:10 PM
Yes definitely. It's between him and Jamal Crawford.

Stunner
01-04-2013, 12:12 PM
Youre a ****ing a joke you know that right. Everyone on this forum does not take you seriously because we all know youre just a sad little man that has nothing better to do than sit on PSD ALL ****ING DAY and post your ********. Youre the king of one word responses just to boost your terribly sad post total and you generate nothing to a conversation ever. Sad sad sad sad.

I would love to hear everyones opinion on this subject and I respect everyones answer on the topic no matter what they feel, but you are just a blind **** homer that posts garbage and ******** on this forum. Youre right up there DoMeFavors, Cousinsevansduo and all the other terrible posters in this place.

Now do I think he'll win it, probably not because there are a lot of people having great seasons. However it is undeniable that Smith has been playing amazingly and certainly deserves to be in the conversation. He brings a ton to this team and has been having an all around great season.

Bet he wasn't expecting this response when he poured his fruit loops this morning.

oak2455
01-04-2013, 12:17 PM
Bet he wasn't expecting this response when he poured his fruit loops this morning.

:laugh:

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 12:21 PM
Jr's defense is better than all of those player and, with the exception of Jack, does something other than score.

If we wanna talk about the best two way bench player who contributes in all facets there is probably no one more valuable than Eric Bledsoe and Manu Ginobili. As a matter of a fact Manu should be in this conversation as well for the value he adds to his team.

UPRock
01-04-2013, 12:23 PM
Between Crawford and him.

Becks2307
01-04-2013, 12:25 PM
If we wanna talk about the best two way bench player who contributes in all facets there is probably no one more valuable than Eric Bledsoe and Manu Ginobili. As a matter of a fact Manu should be in this conversation as well for the value he adds to his team.

Bledsoe is great, but you are not winning the sixth man award averaging 8,2,2.

mike44
01-04-2013, 12:29 PM
Hes up there with Crawford, Martin, and Jack. Id add Lou Williams in there too.

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 12:30 PM
Bledsoe is great, but you are not winning the sixth man award averaging 8,2,2.

Went off tangent a bit there since Bledsoe isn't even his team's 6th man. I was looking at it from a two way value standpoint though.

YoungOne
01-04-2013, 12:35 PM
Do you think JR Smith has a chance to be 6th Man of the Year?

Check out his incredible dunk from last night too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ3X8lIH3mk

He's averaging 16.6 points per game, 2.8 assists, 5.2 rebounds, and 1.3 steals.

Unquestionably, he's a much better defender than Jamal Crawford.

In addition, he's done a much better job as a playmaker rather than just a scorer.

Finally, he's a much better rebounder especially defensively.

this part shows the homerism, thats why no one takes you seriously.

Chronz
01-04-2013, 12:36 PM
Its obvious most of you don't watch the guys that you're all talking about. Kevin Martin is one dimensional. Jr's competition will be Crawford (awful defense) and Jarret Jack (doesn't play enough in crunch time) as of right now of course. Honorable mention to Landry. JR leads so far

WTF? Is wrong with you...

Chronz
01-04-2013, 12:37 PM
Is his defense really improved tho? Seems like alot of people are saying that about him and Melo, yet even with their "improvements" and the addition of Brewer, Kidd, Felton, they have been defending like ****. How is that possible

Becks2307
01-04-2013, 12:40 PM
Is his defense really improved tho? Seems like alot of people are saying that about him and Melo, yet even with their "improvements" and the addition of Brewer, Kidd, Felton, they have been defending like ****. How is that possible

Have not been playing great D at all.

Esp Brewer, my god. He is likely injured though.

Knick bag
01-04-2013, 12:41 PM
Crawford, Martin, Smith to me are the top candidates for sixth man. I would say Crawford is leading the pack but look at importance to the team. Smith is more important to the Knicks than the other players are to their respective teams. Smith has been the second best player on the Knicks with Amare (Knicks second best player All Star) missing 31 games and still having to play his way back into shape, Shumpert still out, and Carmelo missing games here and there. Many people thought the Knicks would not even be top 3 in the East with Amare missing and with the age of the team. Smith is a larger part of putting the Knicks in the position that they are in than Crawford is to the healthy Clips and Martin is to the Durant/Westbrook Thunder.

ewing
01-04-2013, 12:42 PM
Is his defense really improved tho? Seems like alot of people are saying that about him and Melo, yet even with their "improvements" and the addition of Brewer, Kidd, Felton, they have been defending like ****. How is that possible


JR is the best defensive guard on the Knicks so far this season. Melo has given effort defensively but is hardly a impact player at that end, especially at the 4. JR has shown great effort on D and runs harder then anyone on the team.

Chronz
01-04-2013, 12:43 PM
Have not been playing great D at all.

Esp Brewer, my god. He is likely injured though.

So the guys who have historically played good defense are the ones who are suddenly not playing good defense, and the guys who were not known for their defense are the teams best defenders? Having a hard time buying that.

Chronz
01-04-2013, 12:44 PM
JR is the best defensive guard on the Knicks so far this season. Melo has given effort defensively but is hardly a impact player at that end, especially at the 4. JR has shown great effort on D and runs harder then anyone on the team.

Thats my theory as well.

About JR, are you guys talking about man or team D?

nycericanguy
01-04-2013, 12:51 PM
JR has been a very solid defender in NY... as has Melo.

I can't attest for prior to that, but aside from occasional lapses that almost every player has, I have absolutely no problem with the defense they have played.

JR has really taken his game to a new level this year, also has been one of the better rebounding SG's despite not playing really heavy minutes. He's the best guard right now in NY. I was really hard on him last year, but he's won me over.

As for Brewer, he barely plays anymore but he's been solid on D.

Kidd was really good early on, but I think he's had to log too many minutes and with Felton out he's been having to guard opposing PG's more now which is hurting him.

Felton has been solid on D

NYKnicks4511
01-04-2013, 12:53 PM
1. Martin
2. Crawford
3. Smith

Disagree. Martin doesn't create for himself like Crawford and Smith do -- not to mention creating for others as well. I'd say Crawford and JR are 1a and 1b at this point.

Becks2307
01-04-2013, 12:53 PM
So the guys who have historically played good defense are the ones who are suddenly not playing good defense, and the guys who were not known for their defense are the teams best defenders? Having a hard time buying that.

I've watched almost every Knick game for the past 5-6 years and every one so far this season.

Kidd plays good man to man on bigger guards, but he gets smoked my any quick PG. Not his fault, just age.

Felton has been decent, but all PGs are still going off against us, so in that regard he hasn't been spectacular.

Ronnie Brewer -I have no idea what's going on with him. (he has to be hiding some injury) Aside from his ghastly offensive game which has plummeted to absolute nothingness, he is not even making an impact on defense at all right now. Offering nothing since November.


Jr Smith on the other hand has been playing great D all round, so much so that Woody now assigns him to defend the quick Pgs on important possessions. He hustles more than anyone on the team and as someone who really doubted if he would ever "figure it out" its been amazing to see his turn around as a basketball player.

NYKnicks4511
01-04-2013, 12:54 PM
Thats my theory as well.

About JR, are you guys talking about man or team D?

He has played some great man D this season, and he also plays the passing lanes well. I would compare him to a D-Wade lite defensively, he does all the same things.

ewing
01-04-2013, 12:58 PM
Thats my theory as well.

About JR, are you guys talking about man or team D?



Man on is JR strength but he isn't lost in rotations. He is a pressure guard and while there is little criticize woodson for i would have liked to have seen JR switched onto opposing PG who have hurt the knicks at times this year. I think your seeing this out pouring of love for JR not just b/c he has been putting up big time numbers lately but b/c the guy has been playing hard, real hard

ManRam
01-04-2013, 01:01 PM
Definitely a leading candidate, but there isn't much to distinguish him from the other top candidates. It's a tight race between him, Martin, Crawford, Jack, Lou, etc.

I do think I'd give him the slight nod now though. He's relied on just a bit more than the rest of those guys. He's their second option the vast majority of the time.

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 01:03 PM
Disagree. Martin doesn't create for himself like Crawford and Smith do -- not to mention creating for others as well. I'd say Crawford and JR are 1a and 1b at this point.

But he's a MUCH better finisher than they are and better at getting to the line and converting when his shots aren't falling (and when they are). For the Thunder that's more valuable than having someone who creates for themselves when they have two players who are already capable of doing so at an elite level. The spacing and finishing Martin offers allows for Westbrook and Durant to play their game with the added benefit of having an elite calibre finisher on the perimeter alongside them.

Creating isn't as important as finishing in the grand scheme of offense.

Becks2307
01-04-2013, 01:05 PM
Definitely a leading candidate, but there isn't much to distinguish him from the other top candidates. It's a tight race between him, Martin, Crawford, Jack, Lou, etc.

I do think I'd give him the slight nod now though. He's relied on just a bit more than the rest of those guys. He's their second option the vast majority of the time.

I think he has to be ahead of Martin and Crawford right now. He is scoring at the same clip. He also has a much more well rounded game than those guys, he is putting up 22/6/3.4 in his last 10.

However we have a LONG way to go. So i think it's really a toss up between those 3 in the end.

KniCks4LiFe
01-04-2013, 01:06 PM
1. Martin
2. Crawford
3. Smith

Jarret Jack?

wizardsfan3
01-04-2013, 01:12 PM
It's gonna come down to Crawford and Smith

KniCks4LiFe
01-04-2013, 01:15 PM
LOLS I think Smith and Crawford will be leading candidates but WTF Jarret Jack is in Golden State doing just as good w/o the highlight dunks, shooting a better %, playing point guard at times and Golden State is a top team in the league b/c of him. How is he not in this conversation?

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 01:26 PM
I think he has to be ahead of Martin and Crawford right now. He is scoring at the same clip. He also has a much more well rounded game than those guys, he is putting up 22/6/3.4 in his last 10.

However we have a LONG way to go. So i think it's really a toss up between those 3 in the end.

Na Crawford is scoring at a greater rate and more efficiently as well. He's a better scorer than J.R. this season.

GiantsSwaGG
01-04-2013, 01:42 PM
Bet he wasn't expecting this response when he poured his fruit loops this morning.

:laugh:

Chronz
01-04-2013, 02:31 PM
I've watched almost every Knick game for the past 5-6 years and every one so far this season.
Trying to build credibility ehh? Id be more interested in knowing how many games outside of NY have you seen over the years. No offense but just my line of questioning whenever people tell me this. Ive seen most of NY's games this year, maybe Im missing the wrong ones.



Kidd plays good man to man on bigger guards, but he gets smoked my any quick PG. Not his fault, just age.
Thats been the case for awhile now but teams have mitigated that by playing him at the 2 defensively, and thats where Kidd has played extensively this year. Still this could be the year hes finally so old hes no longer even a neutral defender, not too hard to believe.


Felton has been decent, but all PGs are still going off against us, so in that regard he hasn't been spectacular.

He used to be very good defensively but your right about the PG production when hes on the court. Its abysmal, to the point where his own production becomes a net negative. Still when it comes to defense at the point of attack, I think help defenders become a bigger priority in keeping them out of the paint. That has to come from the bigger players but outside of TC/Sheed/KT/Brewer/Kidd (over the years), I dont see any great positional help defender. You guys used to have Jeffries for this very purpose. But your telling me that most of those guys have declined so it would put an even greater emphasis on Melo/Smith.




Ronnie Brewer -I have no idea what's going on with him. (he has to be hiding some injury) Aside from his ghastly offensive game which has plummeted to absolute nothingness, he is not even making an impact on defense at all right now. Offering nothing since November.
So his torrid shooting eventually ceased, thats not surprising but his D suffering? His numbers look fine individually (on par with JR's) and I havent really noticed anything glaring. I guess I should have just bolded his name because hes the only one I have a real hard time buying but if hes injured, news will probably surface once Shumpert gets back



Jr Smith on the other hand has been playing great D all round, so much so that Woody now assigns him to defend the quick Pgs on important possessions. He hustles more than anyone on the team and as someone who really doubted if he would ever "figure it out" its been amazing to see his turn around as a basketball player.
Its been a great year for him, hes had the tools. Sad that he wont get credit for his defensive improvements if the Knicks dont turn their defensive identity around.

I can spread the blame outside of JR, its hard to let go of reputations built over the years but Kidd, Felton, KT are getting old.

Chronz
01-04-2013, 02:45 PM
I think he has to be ahead of Martin and Crawford right now. He is scoring at the same clip. He also has a much more well rounded game than those guys, he is putting up 22/6/3.4 in his last 10.

However we have a LONG way to go. So i think it's really a toss up between those 3 in the end.


Man on is JR strength but he isn't lost in rotations. He is a pressure guard and while there is little criticize woodson for i would have liked to have seen JR switched onto opposing PG who have hurt the knicks at times this year. I think your seeing this out pouring of love for JR not just b/c he has been putting up big time numbers lately but b/c the guy has been playing hard, real hard

Would you guys say hes more adept at preventing a shot or at lulling people into bad ones, because if its the first one then its real hard to notice a trend and even harder to capture statically, but if hes the kind of defender who baits people into taking contested shots, we can actually see his success rate rather quickly.

A guy like Novak, as unimpressive of a defender he looks like, one of his main defensive contributions for the Knicks seems to be that people seem to relish the chance at going 1 on 1 with him. They will take low% shots simply because they feel he cant contest them when in reality he does quite well in situations where he doesn't have to move often, even if its 1 on 1.



Do any particular games stand out for JR? Like an example of him putting the clamps on a hot opponent at a different position maybe?
I remember thinking that Shved was having his way with him a few games ago but I never actually analyzed his possessions. I felt he played Kobe well enough but didn't slow him down at all and IIRC they tried multiple defenders on Lillard, should prolly check that game first.

JR Smith being a 2-way bench player is an interesting theory, something I would like to see more on.

kmo429
01-04-2013, 02:47 PM
Im biased but this is an absolute yes. He has been AWESOME

kmo429
01-04-2013, 02:51 PM
I just dont know how anyone, just looking at statlines which si what most people are, could say Martin or Crawford deserve it more. JR is ahead in PPG, RPG, APG, STLPG, and BLCKPG. Every major offensive category and a couple less major ones, he's leading them all, so how can you justify JR not deserving it? Oh he plays 3 more minutes a game? Yeah JR Smith has 3 extra rebounds and an extra couple assists in those 3 minutes, every night? Thats enough to get it over the other 2.

THE MTL
01-04-2013, 02:57 PM
lol

No.

Youre a ****ing a joke you know that right. Everyone on this forum does not take you seriously because we all know youre just a sad little man that has nothing better to do than sit on PSD ALL ****ING DAY and post your ********. Youre the king of one word responses just to boost your terribly sad post total and you generate nothing to a conversation ever. Sad sad sad sad.

I would love to hear everyones opinion on this subject and I respect everyones answer on the topic no matter what they feel, but you are just a blind **** homer that posts garbage and ******** on this forum. Youre right up there DoMeFavors, Cousinsevansduo and all the other terrible posters in this place.

Now do I think he'll win it, probably not because there are a lot of people having great seasons. However it is undeniable that Smith has been playing amazingly and certainly deserves to be in the conversation. He brings a ton to this team and has been having an all around great season.

Damn!

Chronz
01-04-2013, 02:58 PM
I just dont know how anyone, just looking at statlines which si what most people are, could say Martin or Crawford deserve it more. JR is ahead in PPG, RPG, APG, STLPG, and BLCKPG. Every major offensive category and a couple less major ones, he's leading them all, so how can you justify JR not deserving it? Oh he plays 3 more minutes a game? Yeah JR Smith has 3 extra rebounds and an extra couple assists in those 3 minutes, every night? Thats enough to get it over the other 2.

Statlines include efficiency. We also care about team influence. Well some of us, its not as cut and dry as you think

JR has a similar case with Crawford, Martin is the best statistically but worst defensively (typically anyways, but judging from this thread you shouldn't rely on reputations). They are all on great teams but I think only Crawford sees his team play demonstrably better when he comes into the game. Not sure about Martin tho. Part of the value of these 6th men is that they can fit seemlessly with either the starting unit or the bench mob, not saying JR cant, just that I doubt its at the same level as guys like Jack and Crawford have displayed.

justinnum1
01-04-2013, 03:34 PM
It's a 2 man race between Martin and Crawford.

JasonJohnHorn
01-04-2013, 03:37 PM
There are a number of candidates for the 6th man award. JR Smith is one of them. The Crawford boys are both playing well off the bench (Jordan and Jamal), Ray Allen, Kevin Martin. Andre Drummond is performing very well off the bench, though he doesnt get as many minutes as he would need to put up numbers that compete with the other guys. Ben Gordon is also doing a great job off the bench this season.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-04-2013, 04:29 PM
Youre a ****ing a joke you know that right. Everyone on this forum does not take you seriously because we all know youre just a sad little man that has nothing better to do than sit on PSD ALL ****ING DAY and post your ********. Youre the king of one word responses just to boost your terribly sad post total and you generate nothing to a conversation ever. Sad sad sad sad.

I would love to hear everyones opinion on this subject and I respect everyones answer on the topic no matter what they feel, but you are just a blind **** homer that posts garbage and ******** on this forum. Youre right up there DoMeFavors, Cousinsevansduo and all the other terrible posters in this place.

Now do I think he'll win it, probably not because there are a lot of people having great seasons. However it is undeniable that Smith has been playing amazingly and certainly deserves to be in the conversation. He brings a ton to this team and has been having an all around great season.

:burn:

Becks2307
01-04-2013, 04:41 PM
Na Crawford is scoring at a greater rate and more efficiently as well. He's a better scorer than J.R. this season.

Jamal Crawford - 16.5 ppg on 42% fg 35% 3pt and 90 FT
JR Smith - 16.6 ppg on 42% fg 35% 3pt 80% FT

how is that not at the same clip? the 90% FT is awesome for crawford but those numbers are pretty comparable dude.

Becks2307
01-04-2013, 04:48 PM
T



So his torrid shooting eventually ceased, thats not surprising but his D suffering? His numbers look fine individually (on par with JR's) and I havent really noticed anything glaring. I guess I should have just bolded his name because hes the only one I have a real hard time buying but if hes injured, news will probably surface once Shumpert gets back



Its been a great year for him, hes had the tools. Sad that he wont get credit for his defensive improvements if the Knicks dont turn their defensive identity around.

I can spread the blame outside of JR, its hard to let go of reputations built over the years but Kidd, Felton, KT are getting old.


Don't get me wrong, Brewer isnt out there missing rotations and getting lost. But he is just kind of a non factor on both sides of the ball right now. My guess (and alot of us in the Knick forum as well) is that he is not fully recovered from his injury and it's hindering his play. His defense is definitely above average but he isnt really making an impact at least not like JR has been.

Regarding Kidd, he is playing the 1 now and will be for the next couple of months. He hasn't been bad either its just that JR is outshining everyone.

It's hard to pigeonhole JR's defense into one particular strength. I don't think he is some super defensive stalwart now, he's just playing with close to 100% effort on that side of the ball. With his athleticism that is bound to make a substantial impact. He is better man to man but he is helping diving for loose balls, getting rebound and just hustling more than I have ever seen him in his career.

Without JR smith, we would be much closer to .500 this season, I don't think you can say that for the other candidates.


BUT lol the season has a LONG Way to go. A LONG way so I have no idea who will win in the end.

Chronz
01-04-2013, 04:56 PM
Jamal Crawford - 16.5 ppg on 42% fg 35% 3pt and 90 FT
JR Smith - 16.6 ppg on 42% fg 35% 3pt 80% FT

how is that not at the same clip? the 90% FT is awesome for crawford but those numbers are pretty comparable dude.

Its the distribution of those shot attempts that makes the difference. Crawford makes more 3's AND gets to the line more. Check their TS%

popo85
01-04-2013, 04:59 PM
Last 5 games:
25 ppg 7rpg 2stlspg 3.6 apg 44% FG, the only true scoring option behing Melo. JR SWi$h is the 6th man of the year right now...

KnickaBocka.44
01-04-2013, 05:01 PM
The only real difference between the 2 is that Crawford is getting to the line a couple more times per game (and capitalizing) and he is putting up the same ppg in about 4 less minutes. They are shooting almost identical percentages from the field and from 3.

Becks2307
01-04-2013, 05:06 PM
Na Crawford is scoring at a greater rate and more efficiently as well. He's a better scorer than J.R. this season.


Its the distribution of those shot attempts that makes the difference. Crawford makes more 3's AND gets to the line more. Check their TS%


All i said is "they are scoring at the same clip." That's a pretty general statement I would say the stats show the same story.

Unless you want to really go in depth, I don't see how their numbers vary that much to claim - "Na Crawford is scoring at a greater rate and more efficiently as well."

At this point I would put them pretty much in the same boat. Regardless of Crawford's 5% advantage in true shooting percentage.

Anyway its early days!

Jesse2272
01-04-2013, 05:09 PM
Jamal Crawford - 16.5 ppg on 42% fg 35% 3pt and 90 FT
JR Smith - 16.6 ppg on 42% fg 35% 3pt 80% FT

how is that not at the same clip? the 90% FT is awesome for crawford but those numbers are pretty comparable dude.

I agree


Per 36
GP MIN PTS FGA FG% 3PA 3P% FTA REB AST PF
JR-Overall 79 1967 17.7 14.3 44% 5.8 39% 4.0 5.9 3.2 3.2
+/-
4.5
GP MIN PTS FGA FG% 3PA 3P% FTA REB AST PF
JC- Overall 76 2297 16.9 13.7 42% 5.5 34% 4.1 2.0 3.8 1.5
+/-
0.1

Ill21
01-04-2013, 05:15 PM
Youre a ****ing a joke you know that right. Everyone on this forum does not take you seriously because we all know youre just a sad little man that has nothing better to do than sit on PSD ALL ****ING DAY and post your ********. Youre the king of one word responses just to boost your terribly sad post total and you generate nothing to a conversation ever. Sad sad sad sad.

I would love to hear everyones opinion on this subject and I respect everyones answer on the topic no matter what they feel, but you are just a blind **** homer that posts garbage and ******** on this forum. Youre right up there DoMeFavors, Cousinsevansduo and all the other terrible posters in this place.

Now do I think he'll win it, probably not because there are a lot of people having great seasons. However it is undeniable that Smith has been playing amazingly and certainly deserves to be in the conversation. He brings a ton to this team and has been having an all around great season.


:clap::clap::clap:

Put this clown in his place

Jesse2272
01-04-2013, 05:15 PM
efg/ts% & ws does give JC the edge over JR right now


but overall stat numbers are very similar

for what its worth JR has a much higher +/- 0.1/4.5

P Styles
01-04-2013, 05:37 PM
LMAO @ that loser Heat fan with 50k posts getting put on blast.

Enjoying the Miami sunshine from his mama's basement

Chronz
01-04-2013, 05:40 PM
All i said is "they are scoring at the same clip." That's a pretty general statement I would say the stats show the same story.
Well that depends, if you look at some stats they show quite a different story. But I guess that depends on the person.


Unless you want to really go in depth, I don't see how their numbers vary that much to claim - "Na Crawford is scoring at a greater rate and more efficiently as well."

At this point I would put them pretty much in the same boat. Regardless of Crawford's 5% advantage in true shooting percentage.

Anyway its early days!
Thats where we differ, the fact that hes both scoring at a higher rate AND doing so more efficiently is pretty important to some of us.



efg/ts% & ws does give JC the edge over JR right now


but overall stat numbers are very similar

for what its worth JR has a much higher +/- 0.1/4.5

That cant be right, BBR and 82g's says Jamal has the superior +/- differential

godolphins
01-04-2013, 06:15 PM
I think its going to be between him and Crawford.

TheNumber37
01-04-2013, 06:34 PM
Jr Smith has been better than Crawford and Kevin Martin

Sure, they are scoring more, but neither is defending, rebounding, passing or hitting game winners (2 so far) like Smith is.
He also has really been the 2nd scoring option for the Knicks, while the others have been at best 3rd.

More-Than-Most
01-04-2013, 06:42 PM
NVM Just looked...He started a lot

Ebbs
01-04-2013, 07:00 PM
He has a chance but he isn't the winner at this point.

javsvt
01-04-2013, 07:09 PM
I think it's between JCraw, and JR, both are playing solid this year. Also, these two guys are clutch, you wouldn't mind them taking last second shots, they have shown that.

faze38
01-04-2013, 07:18 PM
If he can maintain the way he has been playing lately he will win it hands down but I think it's gonna be tough comp no matter what but the man has been balling lately. Also it's gonna be tough for him to keep putting up 25 points a game!

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 07:21 PM
he def could... still early though

Jesse2272
01-04-2013, 07:42 PM
That cant be right, BBR and 82g's says Jamal has the superior +/- differential

Youre quite right I was looking at the per 36 number !?

JC is quite higher than JR +7.6/-.01

D-Leethal
01-04-2013, 07:44 PM
Jamal is deserving but JR is right there. He plays way better defense too.

Jesse2272
01-04-2013, 07:47 PM
Advanced stats simply tell me that JC has been more consistent from the get go

and JR went through a brutal slump

but hes been on a tear since and with their basic stats so close JR is right on his heels

+27 differential last night hes doing all the little things and is just outright sick nasty if he keeps this up the rest of the season

he wins

WAYNEBO
01-04-2013, 07:47 PM
His down games will keep him from that title. But when he's on, his boards, dimes and defense are all front-runner material. Just like Jamal Crawford, he is starter material with a chucker's mentality, which is OK when you're on. His problem is when it just ain't fallin for him on a given night, he's gotta know to be effective in other ways. JKidd has and will continue to help in this department.

Tysons_Beard
01-04-2013, 08:01 PM
Kevin Martin says Hi.

jr is playing better..

IDunknown
01-04-2013, 08:39 PM
this part shows the homerism, thats why no one takes you seriously.

He was right JR has improved his playmaking.He is a less reckless decision maker than in the past.

jmoney85
01-04-2013, 09:07 PM
I think smith is better than crawford

Sactown
01-04-2013, 09:24 PM
I have the 4 top candidates being

#1 Kevin Martin
Best advanced stats, INSANE TS%, Most Winning Team

#2 Jamal Crawford
2nd most winning team, 2nd best advanced stats, Great efficiency

#3 Carl Landry
Almost forgot about him, Best PER, efficient, but not as efficient as Martin, tied with the Knicks record definitely a sleeper pick.

#4 JR Smith
Worst advanced stats out of the 3, least efficient, on least winning team

I have Kevin Martin and JC as the best choices, I think if they both keep up the play, it will go to the team with the best record, for JR SMITH to win it he's going to have to either, improve his play dramatically, OR the Knicks are going to have to beat out the CLIPS AND THUNDER in wins by a significant margin.

Conclusion: If JR SMITH WON IT, 3 candidates would definitely be snubbed.

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 09:26 PM
He should be. He is an important piece in this team. 2nd option on offense as well.

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 09:27 PM
I have the 4 top candidates being

#1 Kevin Martin
Best advanced stats, INSANE TS%, Most Winning Team

#2 Jamal Crawford
2nd most winning team, 2nd best advanced stats, Great efficiency

#3 Carl Landry
Almost forgot about him, Best PER, efficient, but not as efficient as Martin, tied with the Knicks record definitely a sleeper pick.

#4 JR Smith
Worst advanced stats out of the 3, least efficient, on least winning team

I have Kevin Martin and JC as the best choices, I think if they both keep up the play, it will go to the team with the best record, for JR SMITH to win it he's going to have to either, improve his play dramatically, OR the Knicks are going to have to beat out the CLIPS AND THUNDER in wins by a significant margin.

Your owners are selling the team. I hope they move away from your ****** city.. SAC TOWN! hahahahahahAHa

Sactown
01-04-2013, 09:29 PM
Your owners are selling the team. I hope they move away from your ****** city.. SAC TOWN! hahahahahahAHa

I hope they sell the team, could careless if they moved.
So you can go **** yourself.

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 09:29 PM
The worst arena, arguably the worst franchise is...... Sacramento.. They need a new start just like the Seattle Sonics had... I actually won't mind IF the Kings moved to Seattle... But of course being called the Seattle Sonics. Kings have no history, other than two gay brothers.

Sactown
01-04-2013, 09:32 PM
The worst arena, arguably the worst franchise is...... Sacramento.. They need a new start just like the Seattle Sonics had... I actually won't mind IF the Kings moved to Seattle... But of course being called the Seattle Sonics. Kings have no history, other than two gay brothers.
Sorry, didn't the Kings recently dismantle the Knicks?

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 09:34 PM
I hope they sell the team, could careless if they moved.
So you can go **** yourself.

I had your sister do it for me too. It was just okay.. She needs some work.

Sactown
01-04-2013, 09:35 PM
I had your sister do it for me too. It was just okay.. She needs some work.

Don't have a sister?

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 09:35 PM
Sorry, didn't the Kings recently dismantle the Knicks?

dismantle???????????????????????? LOL You were up by 27 Knicks came back up by 4 with 30 seconds left.. Isiah got a "FOUL"... lol scored the free throws.. and the biggest scrub in the NBA scored a lucky three for the win... :clap: to you if you think that is a dismantle.. :facepalm:

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 09:36 PM
Jamal Crawford - 16.5 ppg on 42% fg 35% 3pt and 90 FT
JR Smith - 16.6 ppg on 42% fg 35% 3pt 80% FT

how is that not at the same clip? the 90% FT is awesome for crawford but those numbers are pretty comparable dude.

If Crawford was playing 4 minutes more wouldn't he score more than JR? Crawford scores just as much in less time than Smith. Per minute Crawford is the better and more efficient scorer.

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 09:36 PM
Don't have a sister?

Maybe your mom gave her up for adoption.. You probably know how it is in the Sacramento projects right?

Sactown
01-04-2013, 09:36 PM
dismantle???????????????????????? LOL You were up by 27 Knicks came back up by 4 with 30 seconds left.. Isiah got a "FOUL"... lol scored the free throws.. and the biggest scrub in the NBA scored a lucky three for the win... :clap: to you if you think that is a dismantle.. :facepalm:

Oh sorry, didn't realize you guys came back in garbage time, a win is a win and a loss is a loss, so you can go cry and get mad lol :mad:

Sactown
01-04-2013, 09:37 PM
Maybe your mom gave her up for adoption.. You probably know how it is in the Sacramento projects right?

Don't live in Sacramento, so you're wrong again? you're just so witty :rolleyes:

Jesse2272
01-04-2013, 09:38 PM
I have the 4 top candidates being

#1 Kevin Martin
Best advanced stats, INSANE TS%, Most Winning Team

#2 Jamal Crawford
2nd most winning team, 2nd best advanced stats, Great efficiency

#3 Carl Landry
Almost forgot about him, Best PER, efficient, but not as efficient as Martin, tied with the Knicks record definitely a sleeper pick.

#4 JR Smith
Worst advanced stats out of the 3, least efficient, on least winning team

I have Kevin Martin and JC as the best choices, I think if they both keep up the play, it will go to the team with the best record, for JR SMITH to win it he's going to have to either, improve his play dramatically, OR the Knicks are going to have to beat out the CLIPS AND THUNDER in wins by a significant margin.

Conclusion: If JR SMITH WON IT, 3 candidates would definitely be snubbed.

No snub watch the games

JR has won games outright, on last 2nd shots with no Melo

he stepped up dude

hes been huge as our 2nd primary scorer

Ray Ray has been hurt and is now out, Stat has played 2 games

advanced stat mvp 6th man shouldnt go to JR

if the award was based on importance to team/impact/if he was not there/coming through when it counts give him the trophy now

edit your post and remove that nonsensical crap and get league pass

other than that your list is accurate but not final and or in that order imo

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 09:39 PM
Oh sorry, didn't realize you guys came back in garbage time, a win is a win and a loss is a loss, so you can go cry and get mad lol :mad:

It was a dismantle in your opinion.. lol. Garbage time? okay.. I think I am finished here.. Have fun watching the Kings this season.. and the next few years..:facepalm:

Sactown
01-04-2013, 09:39 PM
If Crawford was playing 4 minutes more wouldn't he score more than JR? Crawford scores just as much in less time than Smith. Per minute Crawford is the better and more efficient scorer.

Absolutely he has better stats, and he's also on a team with a better record. He is definitely a more deserving candidate, but I think the real competition is between him and Kevin Martin

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 09:42 PM
Jamal Crawfords statistics..


PPG

16.5



RPG

1.9



APG

2.6



SPG

1.1



BPG

0.1



FG%

0.422



FT%

0.902



3P%

0.352



MPG

29.1

Smith statistics

PPG

16.6



RPG

5.2



APG

2.8



SPG

1.3



BPG

0.4



FG%

0.419



FT%

0.800



3P%

0.352



MPG

33.2

Sactown
01-04-2013, 09:43 PM
No snub watch the games

JR has won games outright, on last 2nd shots with no Melo

he stepped up dude

hes been huge as our 2nd primary scorer

Ray Ray has been hurt and is now out, Stat has played 2 games

advanced stat mvp 6th man shouldnt go to JR

if the award was based on importance to team/impact/if he was not there/coming through when it counts give him the trophy now

edit your post and remove that nonsensical crap and get league pass

other than that your list is accurate but not final and or in that order imo
I've watched plenty of Knicks, Thunder, and Clippers games, Granted I haven't seen a bunch of GSW games, but you can't count out Landry.. JR has improved a lot this season, but considering JC and KMART match him in EVERY statistic and surpass them, and considering JC AND MARTIN are still HUGE PARTS of OKC, and CLippers game plan they have to be #1 and #2 also considering their teams just simply have better records... I'm not being biased... those 2 just beat out JR.

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 09:44 PM
It is still early so we will see who wins 6th man of the year.

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 09:46 PM
I agree


Per 36
GP MIN PTS FGA FG% 3PA 3P% FTA REB AST PF
JR-Overall 79 1967 17.7 14.3 44% 5.8 39% 4.0 5.9 3.2 3.2
+/-
4.5
GP MIN PTS FGA FG% 3PA 3P% FTA REB AST PF
JC- Overall 76 2297 16.9 13.7 42% 5.5 34% 4.1 2.0 3.8 1.5
+/-
0.1

Per36

Player FG FGA FG% FT FTA FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PTS
Jamal Crawford 6.9 16.3 0.422 4.5 4.9 0.902 2.4 3.2 1.4 0.1 2.4 20.4
J.R. Smith 6.8 16.1 0.419 2.9 3.6 0.800 5.7 3.1 1.4 0.4 1.7 18.0

Crawford is the better scorer.

Jesse2272
01-04-2013, 09:49 PM
If Crawford was playing 4 minutes more wouldn't he score more than JR? Crawford scores just as much in less time than Smith. Per minute Crawford is the better and more efficient scorer.

not sure the weight of this but

looking at there per 36 basic stats on another sight

J smith has the advantage

Edit-didnt see your post swash this is what i got from BBref


Per 36 Minutes Glossary SHARE Embed CSV PRE LINK ?
Rk Player From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Jamal Crawford 2001 2013 845 399 26775 6.1 14.8 .409 1.9 5.6 .348 3.3 3.9 .854 0.5 2.4 2.9 4.4 1.1 0.3 2.3 1.8 17.4
2 J.R. Smith 2005 2013 570 130 14063 6.6 15.6 .426 2.6 7.1 .368 2.7 3.6 .744 0.8 3.6 4.4 3.0 1.5 0.3 2.2 3.2 18.6

VillaMaravilla
01-04-2013, 09:50 PM
Aslong as he keeps tearing it up for the Knicks I could care less if he wins it or not im used to our team never getting their due. Lets just keep winning and surprise the haters at the end

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 09:51 PM
Absolutely he has better stats, and he's also on a team with a better record. He is definitely a more deserving candidate, but I think the real competition is between him and Kevin Martin

Can't agree 100% to that though. Crawford does indeed have better numbers but IMO from an importance to team/role POV Smith is every bit as valuable as Crawford. During the month of December Crawford shot worse and scored less than he did in November but regardless of that his team still finished the month perfect, I'd say that Smith despite not being a better player in terms of production has great importance to his team. A tad bit more than Crawford. Now I don't think right now he's the winner but IMO its really not definite that Crawford is more deserving just by going on stats.

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 09:53 PM
Too bad Jamal is scared to crash the boards..

Max.This
01-04-2013, 09:55 PM
I'm biased and I think Smith should win.

Jesse2272
01-04-2013, 09:57 PM
I've watched plenty of Knicks, Thunder, and Clippers games, Granted I haven't seen a bunch of GSW games, but you can't count out Landry.. JR has improved a lot this season, but considering JC and KMART match him in EVERY statistic and surpass them, and considering JC AND MARTIN are still HUGE PARTS of OKC, and CLippers game plan they have to be #1 and #2 also considering their teams just simply have better records... I'm not being biased... those 2 just beat out JR.

dont get me wrong im not counting out any of the 4 im just defending the fact that stats alone cannot discount JR's importance

these team records argument is not substantial enough this early to hand anyone the trophy your list was good just not finite

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 09:58 PM
not sure the weight of this but

looking at there per 36 basic stats

J smith has the advantage

Edit-didnt see your post swash this is what i got from BBref

Why are you comparing their careers though? Remember we're talking about this season.

I'm not sure if it was you who said earlier that JR started slowly and is now coming on. Same for Crawford 10+ games in he was averaging 20+ still and has since tailed off.

Oh and if you guys don't buy stats adjusted for 36 minutes, take into consideration that on 14 occasions this season Crawford has player 30+ minutes in a game (31.2 MPG on average) in those games he has averaged 17.6 ppg. In the games in which J.R. has played between 30-39 MPG (34.5 averaged) he's averaged 16.8 ppg. I think its safe to say Crawford is a better scorer at this point in the season.

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 10:00 PM
Too bad Jamal is scared to crash the boards..

You're a 6'5 2 guard coming off the bench on a team that has Blake Griffin, Lamar Odom and Deandre Jordan why on earth should your concern be crashing the boards? :confused:

noodle
01-04-2013, 10:03 PM
Defensively, he CRUSHES Crawford and Martin. It's isn't even close.

Jesse2272
01-04-2013, 10:07 PM
Why are you comparing their careers though? Remember we're talking about this season.

I'm not sure if it was you who said earlier that JR started slowly and is now coming on. Same for Crawford 10+ games in he was averaging 20+ still and has since tailed off.

Oh and if you guys don't buy stats adjusted for 36 minutes, take into consideration that on 14 occasions this season Crawford has player 30+ minutes in a game (31.2 MPG on average) in those games he has averaged 17.6 ppg. In the games in which J.R. has played between 30-39 MPG (34.5 averaged) he's averaged 16.8 ppg. I think its safe to say Crawford is a better scorer at this point in the season.

**** my bad on the BBref, didnt mean to compare/quote career ive had to drink many extra watchin the nets/wiz game Jordan Crawford can ball man

yes I cant argue but its not a huge margin (is that an argument :cool:)

I watched JC early but not late, if both are balancing out with ups and downs if the award was today and between JC/JR, JC gets it

what happens now throught out the season JR needs maintain and its his :D

Swashcuff
01-04-2013, 10:10 PM
**** my bad on the BBref, didnt mean to compare/quote career ive had to drink many extra watchin the nets/wiz game Jordan Crawford can ball man

yes I cant argue

I watched JC early but not late, if both are balancing out with ups and downs if the award was today and between JC/JR, JC gets it

what happens now throught out the season JR needs maintain and its his :D

If he does that then he wins in a landslide :laugh2:

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 10:16 PM
You're a 6'5 2 guard coming off the bench on a team that has Blake Griffin, Lamar Odom and Deandre Jordan why on earth should your concern be crashing the boards? :confused:

Too bad JR. doesn't have that problem..

Jesse2272
01-04-2013, 10:24 PM
Too bad JR. doesn't have that problem..

JR is a freak of nature

his growth and maturity with Woody is amazing to watch

his motor is a million miles an hour and even during his slump he found ways to contribute

Ive always been a fan but pull my hair out

this year is a different story, even when his shot didn't fall he found ways to contribute

his hustle and drive this year is sick nasty

I hope they merge and sticky a sixth man watch thread so we can debate the rest of the season

nyKnicks126
01-04-2013, 10:26 PM
JR is a freak of nature

his growth and maturity with Woody is amazing to watch

his motor is a million miles an hour and even during his slump he found ways to contribute

Ive always been a fan but pull my hair out

this year is a different story, even when his shot didn't fall he found ways to contribute

his hustle and drive this year is sick nasty

I hope they merge and sticky a sixth man watch thread so we can debate the rest of the season

Me too.. JR. deserves the sixth man of the year so far.

meloman1592
01-04-2013, 10:52 PM
this part shows the homerism, thats why no one takes you seriously.

It's actually true, jr is often the Knicks leading assist man

Jesse2272
01-04-2013, 10:54 PM
It's actually true, jr is often the Knicks leading assist man

jR is amazing on PnR

RyanStorm
01-04-2013, 11:45 PM
I say YES, in terms he should be on the ballot. I have been rewatching a lot of NYK games because I am catching up on my western games, but I have seen some amazing things he has done. Like that last second shot to win the Suns.

JR is the type of guy I wish we had on Utah for our bench. Actually most teams wish they had him as a starter, but that goes for Andre Miller also.


I think Jamal Crawford and Collson are also looking for that title. I mean were talking James Harden as last years canidate, so ask yourself, is our pick as good as Harden?

Chronz
01-05-2013, 12:10 AM
Can't agree 100% to that though. Crawford does indeed have better numbers but IMO from an importance to team/role POV Smith is every bit as valuable as Crawford. During the month of December Crawford shot worse and scored less than he did in November but regardless of that his team still finished the month perfect, I'd say that Smith despite not being a better player in terms of production has great importance to his team. A tad bit more than Crawford. Now I don't think right now he's the winner but IMO its really not definite that Crawford is more deserving just by going on stats.
Thoughts on +/- saying Crawford has had the greater team influence?

xxplayerxx23
01-05-2013, 12:11 AM
I'd go with Crawford over jr tbh

Chronz
01-05-2013, 12:54 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/53237/clippers-clamp-down-on-defense-in-fourth

On JC defense

STA_PLAR
01-05-2013, 01:16 AM
I Love JR. He's playing great right now but I think Crawford has the slight edge right now because of his team success.

If he keeps it up for the rest of the season I don't see why he cant get it done. He has been great.

Bishnoff
01-05-2013, 01:45 AM
He has a chance. Martin and Crawford are having great seasons too.

Becks2307
01-05-2013, 02:40 AM
If JR wasnt on the Knicks we would be only a couple games over .500. I cant say that about any of the other candidates. He is the definition of a 6th man this year, putting us over the top.

But we haven't even reached the halfway point yet...so this is way too early.

Chronz
01-05-2013, 03:08 AM
If JR wasnt on the Knicks we would be only a couple games over .500. I cant say that about any of the other candidates. He is the definition of a 6th man this year, putting us over the top.

But we haven't even reached the halfway point yet...so this is way too early.

I dont see anything more than what the other guys have done.

Sactown
01-05-2013, 03:13 AM
I dont see anything more than what the other guys have done.

I agree, I have

#1 K-Mart
Amazing efficiency, Very good advanced stats, On the most winning team

#2 Jamal Crawford
Very good numbers, efficient (not Kmart efficient), 2nd most winning team

#3 Carl Landry
Posting the highest PER (of 4 candidates), efficient, Tied for least most winning team

#4 JR Smith
Worst Per (of the 4 candidates), least efficient, tied for least most winning team (of the candidates), and I'll throw in the X-FACTOR (whatever that means, but the Knicks fans insist there is one)

I'd have a hard time giving it to JR as he is the least efficient, posts arguably the worst numbers of the 4, and is tied for the least winning team.. I honestly think it belongs to JC, Or K-mart, and I think it's going to come down to the teams records, as being on a winning teams seems to have a large affect on these awards.

Becks2307
01-05-2013, 04:42 AM
I dont see anything more than what the other guys have done.

None of these other guys have been their teams 2nd best player this season.

As I said, remove guys from those teams and they still aren't sniffing .500. We would easily be near that without smith. Perhaps its down to the fact that they are better teams but you cant hate on JR having to do more because his team requires it.

again its way to early. this thread should be changed and stickied.

Chronz
01-05-2013, 04:56 AM
None of these other guys have been their teams 2nd best player this season.

As I said, remove guys from those teams and they still aren't sniffing .500. We would easily be near that without smith. Perhaps its down to the fact that they are better teams but you cant hate on JR having to do more because his team requires it.

again its way to early. this thread should be changed and stickied.
I get it bro but we have to agree to disagree on this because Im not convinced what you say is true.

Jesse2272
01-05-2013, 07:20 AM
I get it bro but we have to agree to disagree on this because Im not convinced what you say is true.

JR has been our 2nd best player for more than a few games now

and integral to our success

if that is what your agreeing to disagree with

i disagree

:confused:

c.c.
01-05-2013, 07:24 AM
Landry is very under-rated

Kashmir13579
01-05-2013, 10:19 AM
:laugh: damn are you trying to end his PSD career and his 100k post in 3 years streak?

You are nearly as bad.

Kashmir13579
01-05-2013, 10:23 AM
Is his defense really improved tho? Seems like alot of people are saying that about him and Melo, yet even with their "improvements" and the addition of Brewer, Kidd, Felton, they have been defending like ****. How is that possible

The Knicks defense has taken a dive since Rasheed Wallace went down. No BS. JR is absolutely playing awesome defense though. One of the few players on the Knicks actually. Much better than that supposed defensive specialist Brewer.

Kashmir13579
01-05-2013, 10:26 AM
Man on is JR strength but he isn't lost in rotations. He is a pressure guard and while there is little criticize woodson for i would have liked to have seen JR switched onto opposing PG who have hurt the knicks at times this year. I think your seeing this out pouring of love for JR not just b/c he has been putting up big time numbers lately but b/c the guy has been playing hard, real hard

Brilliant.

He's great on close outs as well.

Jesse2272
01-05-2013, 11:55 AM
The Knicks defense has taken a dive since Rasheed Wallace went down. No BS. JR is absolutely playing awesome defense though. One of the few players on the Knicks actually. Much better than that supposed defensive specialist Brewer.

dont forget Felts being down/hurt

JR is very handsome Chronz and is in the running brother

Hawk your thoughts brother?

GiantsSwaGG
01-05-2013, 12:14 PM
You are nearly as bad.

Cool story brah

Jesse2272
01-05-2013, 11:32 PM
Mods please sticky a race to the 6th man thread and merge this :pray:

YashBoone
01-05-2013, 11:56 PM
Definitely in the convo.

There are a few teams that have very stronger sixth men.

It all depends on where the Knicks finish and if he can keep up his play on both sides.

But he has definitely changed people perception of him this season I think.

Jesse2272
01-05-2013, 11:58 PM
Definitely in the convo.

There are a few teams that have very stronger sixth men.

It all depends on where the Knicks finish and if he can keep up his play on both sides.

But he has definitely changed people perception of him this season I think.

your sig is sick :drool:

YashBoone
01-06-2013, 12:01 AM
Definitely in the convo.

There are a few teams that have very stronger sixth men.

It all depends on where the Knicks finish and if he can keep up his play on both sides.

But he has definitely changed people perception of him this season I think.

your sig is sick :drool:

Says the man with the sic gif from maichan..... Thanks tho

Jesse2272
01-06-2013, 12:03 AM
Says the man with the sic gif from maichan..... Thanks tho

Yanks coming bro

sandman all black everything- by Yash coming

YashBoone
01-06-2013, 12:07 AM
Says the man with the sic gif from maichan..... Thanks tho

Yanks coming bro

sandman all black everything- by Yash coming

Haha, yes!
I got you bro.

seikou8
01-06-2013, 12:27 AM
he will be in the running thats for sure