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View Full Version : If Derrick Rose & Russell Westbrook moved to SG where would they rank?



HouRealCoach
01-02-2013, 04:33 PM
Let's just assume Derrick Rose comes back the same player (which I hope he does)

Where would he and Westbrook rank as SG's in the league right now? The best right now (in no order) are Kobe, Wade, Harden, JJ, Paul George (he's getting a lot better without Granger on the floor), etc.

Where would they rank?

GiantsSwaGG
01-02-2013, 04:38 PM
If Melo had super powers

DanG
01-02-2013, 04:38 PM
Based on this season I would say between 3-5 with Harden.

b@llhog24
01-02-2013, 04:39 PM
Same tier as Harden.

ChiSox219
01-02-2013, 04:48 PM
Rose would be 1,Westbrook behind Harden/Kobe/Wade

DanG
01-02-2013, 04:55 PM
Rose would be 1,Westbrook behind Harden/Kobe/Wade

how so?

Stunner
01-02-2013, 04:56 PM
If so those two would be top in the top 7 of SG's i would assume.

Stunner
01-02-2013, 04:56 PM
how so?

just ignore it lol

jerellh528
01-02-2013, 04:56 PM
Kobe
Rose
Westbrook
Harden
Wade

dalton749
01-02-2013, 05:03 PM
westbrook the shooting guard who cant shoot would put him just ahead of wade

ChiSox219
01-02-2013, 05:09 PM
how so?

Are you talking about Rose or Westbrook?

dtmagnet
01-02-2013, 05:09 PM
Low because they're too short.

DanG
01-02-2013, 05:10 PM
Are you talking about Rose or Westbrook?

Rose

Stunner
01-02-2013, 05:20 PM
Low because they're too short.

If low you mean bottom of the top 10 thats still good, any lower would be disrespectful

ChiSox219
01-02-2013, 05:24 PM
Rose

He's the best defensive player out of the group. If his offense isn't on par with Kobe/Wade, it's certainly close, much closer than the defensive gap.

HouRealCoach
01-02-2013, 05:25 PM
If low you mean bottom of the top 10 thats still good, any lower would be disrespectful

Please explain to me how Rose & Westbrook would be bottom of the Top 10....


Low because they're too short.

D Rose is the same height as Wade & Westbrook is an inch shorter

dtmagnet
01-02-2013, 05:35 PM
Like I said, too short.

DanG
01-02-2013, 05:53 PM
He's the best defensive player out of the group. If his offense isn't on par with Kobe/Wade, it's certainly close, much closer than the defensive gap.


Rose is NOT a better defender than Wade.

This seasons Kobe>>>Any Rose

Kobe is putting up 30-5-5 on 48% shooting on 59%TS.

If you look at Wade's Per 36 Minutes stats then you can see he is still a 22-5-5 guy who can play good defense

Based on Rose's last season he is nowhere near Wade and Kobe.

sp1derm00
01-02-2013, 06:07 PM
Kobe
Wade
Rose
Harden
Westbrook

ChiSox219
01-02-2013, 06:12 PM
Rose is NOT a better defender than Wade.

Rose is a better defender than Wade, not sure why you think otherwise. You can go by game tape or stats, they both tell the same story.



This seasons Kobe>>>Any Rose

Kobe is putting up 30-5-5 on 48% shooting on 59%TS.

Playing with anyone who's capable of drawing a double team would do wonders for Rose statistically. Kobe is the #2 concern for most defenses, Rose has never been that. Those that choose to focus on Kobe over Dwight, still have to worry about Dwight, and Gasol, and Nash, all better offensive players than Rose has ever had.

Kobe's season is an aberration, his career TS% is .555, Rose put up .550 during his MVP year. Can we talk about the .527 TS% Kobe dropped last year?



If you look at Wade's Per 36 Minutes stats then you can see he is still a 22-5-5 guy who can play good defense

Ok but Rose plays better defense and creates more offense.


Based on Rose's last season he is nowhere near Wade and Kobe.

:laugh2:

Rose was injured most of last season and Kobe stunk. Also, ESPN had their poll of 104 NBA writers and analysts, Rose came in at 5, Kobe 6, Wade 7 but it's not even close right? :facepalm:

DanG
01-02-2013, 06:32 PM
Kobe's season is an aberration, his career TS% is .555, Rose put up .550 during his MVP year. Can we talk about the .527 TS% Kobe dropped last year?

No, why would we?


Playing with anyone who's capable of drawing a double team would do wonders for Rose statistically. Kobe is the #2 concern for most defenses, Rose has never been that. Those that choose to focus on Kobe over Dwight, still have to worry about Dwight, and Gasol, and Nash, all better offensive players than Rose has ever had.

Dwight is rarely getting double teamed.

DanG
01-02-2013, 06:38 PM
Rose is a better defender than Wade, not sure why you think otherwise. You can go by game tape or stats, they both tell the same story.

How so? Wade averages more blocks and steals

Wade is also the best help defender at his position. Are you saying that there is a huge gap between Wade and Rose when it comes to perimeter defense?

sp1derm00
01-02-2013, 06:58 PM
Kobe's season is an aberration, his career TS% is .555, Rose put up .550 during his MVP year. Can we talk about the .527 TS% Kobe dropped last year?


Not sure where you're going with this.

Kobe's career TS% is .555, higher on average, than Rose' best year.

Kobe has had TS% seasons of .580 and .576 which is not too far off from his .592 this season. So while it's one of his more efficient shooting seasons, it's not exactly that much more efficient than seasons he's previously had.

Usually, your TS% goes down as your scoring output increases. Kobe's scoring output is much higher than Rose'.

So yea, we can talk about his .527 season, but that's his absolute worst TS% season ever. Rose' career TS% is .534.

SportsFanatic10
01-02-2013, 11:35 PM
i'd have them behind harden and ahead of johnson and manu. westbrook at # 4 rose at 5. they are strong and athletic enough to play that position despite being undersized just like wade.

blahblahyoutoo
01-02-2013, 11:37 PM
westbrook is a better shooter than rose, but not by much.

ChiSox219
01-03-2013, 01:07 AM
Not sure where you're going with this.

Kobe's career TS% is .555, higher on average, than Rose' best year.

So yea, we can talk about his .527 season, but that's his absolute worst TS% season ever. Rose' career TS% is .534.


We haven't seen Rose's best year but he already produces at a level very similar to Kobe. Rose is relied upon to create more offense which also hurts efficiency. Bulls went from a top 5 offense, to #25 without Rose this year.

rocket
01-03-2013, 01:20 AM
Rose top 5

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-03-2013, 01:24 AM
Rose would be 1,Westbrook behind Harden/Kobe/Wade

:laugh2:

tripleplay2007
01-03-2013, 01:31 AM
Bryant
Rose
Harden
Westbrook
Wade

BIG worm
01-03-2013, 01:46 AM
Bryant
Rose
Harden
Westbrook
Wade

+1 yall done forgot about rose! "hes a baaaaad boy" in my stephan a. voice.

dee279
01-03-2013, 01:48 AM
He's the best defensive player out of the group. If his offense isn't on par with Kobe/Wade, it's certainly close, much closer than the defensive gap.

Negative sir. He is not the best defender out of that group.

vdv36
01-03-2013, 01:50 AM
Rose would be 1,Westbrook behind Harden/Kobe/Wade

:drunk: come on man...:facepalm:

Slug3
01-03-2013, 01:53 AM
Rose is a better defender than Wade, not sure why you think otherwise. You can go by game tape or stats, they both tell the same story.



Playing with anyone who's capable of drawing a double team would do wonders for Rose statistically. Kobe is the #2 concern for most defenses, Rose has never been that. Those that choose to focus on Kobe over Dwight, still have to worry about Dwight, and Gasol, and Nash, all better offensive players than Rose has ever had.

Kobe's season is an aberration, his career TS% is .555, Rose put up .550 during his MVP year. Can we talk about the .527 TS% Kobe dropped last year?



Ok but Rose plays better defense and creates more offense.



:laugh2:

Rose was injured most of last season and Kobe stunk. Also, ESPN had their poll of 104 NBA writers and analysts, Rose came in at 5, Kobe 6, Wade 7 but it's not even close right? :facepalm:

Are you talking about his .4 career average in blocks? Or his .9 career average in steals? Maybe it's all the defensive teams he has not been on. Where is Rose a better defender than Wade?

CubsBullsBucs
01-03-2013, 02:17 AM
Kobe
Rose
Westbrook
Harden
Wade

this

SportsFanatic10
01-03-2013, 03:59 AM
so many delusional bulls fans in here :laugh2:

naps
01-03-2013, 04:20 AM
WoW! Bulls fans were quiet for last 6/7 months. It seems like the time is coming when they start to shove Rose down our throat once again. ChiSox is taking it to another level here...Good lord!

Trueblue2
01-03-2013, 04:30 AM
We haven't seen Rose's best year but he already produces at a level very similar to Kobe. Rose is relied upon to create more offense which also hurts efficiency. Bulls went from a top 5 offense, to #25 without Rose this year.

Do you even watch the Lakers dude, the only consistently putting up big points is Kobe, Rose has (had) a team around him that put up a good amount of points each night and a dependable bench. You can't tell me that Rose is a bigger part of his teams offense than Kobe is to the Lakers, if anything they're relied upon the same amount.

el hidalgo
01-03-2013, 05:31 AM
Wade's defense is based off of reputation and flash. He gets blocks so people think he is a great defender. He is only a good help defender, garbage otherwise. Rose blows him away on defense. Drose usually rapes other great PG's anyway (CP3, parker, rondo)

BULLSFAN0810
01-03-2013, 12:51 PM
Rose would be just as good scoring but will suffer team wise...westbrook would be terrible ...since his real position is/was SG...the reason why he is relevent is because he was moved over.

BULLSFAN0810
01-03-2013, 12:57 PM
Are you talking about his .4 career average in blocks? Or his .9 career average in steals? Maybe it's all the defensive teams he has not been on. Where is Rose a better defender than Wade?

you ask any coach esp Hubby Brown a great defensive coach Steals dont mean youre a great defender (AI, who lead the league in steals , btw was considered bad on D due to Size) Blocks dont mean you dont play great D either ...if your close enough or interferr enough IE Bruce Bowen you can be aa great defender...Rose is average...he brought in the NEW MOVE: THE CHASE DOWN , STEP IN FRONT OF...... LIKE LBJ , HE CHASES YOU DWN ...AND INSTEAD OF BLOCKING FROM BEHIND , HE STEP IN FRONT OF GUY LOOKING TO SCORE MAKING THE SCORERS STEPS UNCALCULATED,THROUGHing MOTOR SKILLS OFF...

BULLSFAN0810
01-03-2013, 12:59 PM
Do you even watch the Lakers dude, the only consistently putting up big points is Kobe, Rose has (had) a team around him that put up a good amount of points each night and a dependable bench. You can't tell me that Rose is a bigger part of his teams offense than Kobe is to the Lakers, if anything they're relied upon the same amount.

I love KOBE..BUT KOBE HAS 3 OTHER GUYS WHO CAN/WILL SCORE OVER 20 POINTS...EASY! AND TWO MORE THAT CAN GIVE YOU 15-20...EASY!

sp1derm00
01-03-2013, 01:40 PM
I love KOBE..BUT KOBE HAS 3 OTHER GUYS WHO CAN/WILL SCORE OVER 20 POINTS...EASY! AND TWO MORE THAT CAN GIVE YOU 15-20...EASY!

Well, from that one comment, I can tell you haven't watched the Laker games this season.

Dwight, as dominant as he once was, struggles to even get a good look at the basket. It's not only hard for him to get close to 20, but it would be hard for him to put up enough shots to get to 20 given how often he turns the ball over when he posts. Last game, in 7 FGA, he got blocked 4 times I believe.

Pau, is a shell of his former self. I was a huge defender of Pau earlier this season. I was almost sure that he would come back as good as ever. Not even a hint of what he once was offensively.

Nash is the only other player aside from Kobe on this team that I have faith in offensively. He won't put up 20, but he'll give you 15 on great efficiency.

Metta has been pretty solid offensively this year. No complaints here, but he's not getting you 15ppg reliably.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/artesro01/gamelog/2013/

HouRealCoach
01-03-2013, 01:43 PM
Wade's defense is based off of reputation and flash. He gets blocks so people think he is a great defender. He is only a good help defender, garbage otherwise. Rose blows him away on defense. Drose usually rapes other great PG's anyway (CP3, parker, rondo)

Wade can play some good defense... I remember seeing him chase Ray Allen off of screens & he didn't allow him any breathing room. He's a pretty good defender, added with the fact that he was the rim protector last year for Miami Heat (along with Bosh & LeBron).

& it isn't really Rose blowing them away it's Thibs defensive scheme's...

BULLSFAN0810
01-03-2013, 01:51 PM
Well, from that one comment, I can tell you haven't watched the Laker games this season.

Dwight, as dominant as he once was, struggles to even get a good look at the basket. It's not only hard for him to get close to 20, but it would be hard for him to put up enough shots to get to 20 given how often he turns the ball over when he posts. Last game, in 7 FGA, he got blocked 4 times I believe.

Pau, is a shell of his former self. I was a huge defender of Pau earlier this season. I was almost sure that he would come back as good as ever. Not even a hint of what he once was offensively.

Nash is the only other player aside from Kobe on this team that I have faith in offensively. He won't put up 20, but he'll give you 15 on great efficiency.

Metta has been pretty solid offensively this year. No complaints here, but he's not getting you 15ppg reliably.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/artesro01/gamelog/2013/

But he still has 4-5 20 point scorers around him...i watch LA...LA is slow& Kobe needs to step back and let the team play...THATS THE ISSUE..LET LA RUN AN OFFENSE, LET OTHER PEOPLE PLAY AND KOBE FALLS BACK MORE...HE WILL HAVE HIS TIME TO TAKE OVER...YOU SCORE EASY ...SET UP DEF....KOBE JACKS SHOTS , PEOPLE DONT SEEM AS INVOLVED

Money_23
01-03-2013, 03:03 PM
He's the best defensive player out of the group. If his offense isn't on par with Kobe/Wade, it's certainly close, much closer than the defensive gap.

rofl

ZHawk1123
01-03-2013, 03:14 PM
Westbrook needs to move to SG IMO

smiddy012
01-03-2013, 04:05 PM
Rose is NOT a better defender than Wade.

This seasons Kobe>>>Any Rose

Kobe is putting up 30-5-5 on 48% shooting on 59%TS.

A - Last season Rose was a better defender than Wade, if you watched the two play.

B - If Rose was putting up Kobe's numbers, or anywhere near it, his team would actually be winning. Rose isn't in scoring mode until its crunch time in the fourth, when the team needs him most. Until then, he is taking what defenses give him and distributing the ball accordingly.

Rose and Kobe would be at the top, no doubt. There isn't much of a gap, but at this point in their respective careers, Rose definitely helps those around him more than Kobe does. But part of that is because he's a PG, and in charge of distribution. Although I don't know how Rose would play at SG, IMO, Rose would be the most dominant SG in the league, but if he didn't have a very solid PG next to him, there'd be no point for Rose to play SG. All this said, a lot of this is hypothetical, becuase we don't know how Rose would adjust his playing style as a SG, so its not a great comparison to make. If we're going to compare Rose's dominance as a PG to that of Kobe's as a SG, well its Rose no doubt.

SwatTeam
01-03-2013, 04:26 PM
I have more ACLs than Rose. So . . . no.

ChiSox219
01-03-2013, 05:10 PM
A - Last season Rose was a better defender than Wade, if you watched the two play.

B - If Rose was putting up Kobe's numbers, or anywhere near it, his team would actually be winning. Rose isn't in scoring mode until its crunch time in the fourth, when the team needs him most. Until then, he is taking what defenses give him and distributing the ball accordingly.

Rose and Kobe would be at the top, no doubt. There isn't much of a gap, but at this point in their respective careers, Rose definitely helps those around him more than Kobe does. But part of that is because he's a PG, and in charge of distribution. Although I don't know how Rose would play at SG, IMO, Rose would be the most dominant SG in the league, but if he didn't have a very solid PG next to him, there'd be no point for Rose to play SG. All this said, a lot of this is hypothetical, becuase we don't know how Rose would adjust his playing style as a SG, so its not a great comparison to make. If we're going to compare Rose's dominance as a PG to that of Kobe's as a SG, well its Rose no doubt.

That's a big thing for me, Rose is certainly one of those guys that elevates the team and on both ends of the court. If he's hurting the team it's only because there is no other option, like the Heat series. Kobe will go out and take 30 shots but I'm not sure he realizes that's exactly what some opponents want him to do.

ChiSox219
01-03-2013, 05:20 PM
:drunk: come on man...:facepalm:


so many delusional bulls fans in here :laugh2:


WoW! Bulls fans were quiet for last 6/7 months. It seems like the time is coming when they start to shove Rose down our throat once again. ChiSox is taking it to another level here...Good lord!


rofl

Losers.


Are you talking about his .4 career average in blocks? Or his .9 career average in steals? Maybe it's all the defensive teams he has not been on. Where is Rose a better defender than Wade?

Rose received the 11th most votes for All-Defense in 2011. He was going to make it before succumbing to injuries last year. He's already an All-defense type player, just some bad luck and ignorant assistant coaches. As for the stats, I was talking about his impeccable Synergy numbers from the previous two seasons.

DanG
01-03-2013, 05:50 PM
Losers.



Rose received the 11th most votes for All-Defense in 2011. He was going to make it before succumbing to injuries last year. He's already an All-defense type player, just some bad luck and ignorant assistant coaches. As for the stats, I was talking about his impeccable Synergy numbers from the previous two seasons.

Who cares about that ****? All those teams are ********. If we only look at those teams then Kobe is easily the best defender out of that group. Is he? No

ChiSox219
01-03-2013, 05:54 PM
Who cares about that ****? All those teams are ********. If we only look at those teams then Kobe is easily the best defender out of that group. Is he? No

Obviously Slug3 cares.

DanG
01-03-2013, 06:20 PM
A - Last season Rose was a better defender than Wade, if you watched the two play.

DRtg
Rose: 101
Wade:99

Opponent's PER
Rose: 11,7
Wade: 10,6

SPG
Rose: 0,9
Wade: 1,7

BPG
Rose: 0,7
Wade: 1,3

Rose was a good defender in 2011, Wade was elite.

el hidalgo
01-03-2013, 07:23 PM
DRtg
Rose: 101
Wade:99

Opponent's PER
Rose: 11,7
Wade: 10,6

SPG
Rose: 0,9
Wade: 1,7

BPG
Rose: 0,7
Wade: 1,3

Rose was a good defender in 2011, Wade was elite.

Steals and blocks have more to do with help defense and playing the passing lanes well. High steals can also be from gambling on defense. The blocks are indicative of his solid help. Everybody knows defensive rating is garbage. It is highly skewed by team defense in most cases. Rose > Wade on defense no question. Take off the homer goggles folks.

xxplayerxx23
01-03-2013, 07:40 PM
Right this second? ( assuming rose was healthy)
Kobe
Rose
Wade
Westy
Harden

DanG
01-03-2013, 07:41 PM
Steals and blocks have more to do with help defense and playing the passing lanes well. High steals can also be from gambling on defense. The blocks are indicative of his solid help. Everybody knows defensive rating is garbage. It is highly skewed by team defense in most cases. Rose > Wade on defense no question. Take off the homer goggles folks.

Chicago was the best defensive team last year.

b@llhog24
01-03-2013, 07:43 PM
Steals and blocks have more to do with help defense and playing the passing lanes well. High steals can also be from gambling on defense. The blocks are indicative of his solid help.

Doesn't matter, blocks and steals are still part of defense.


Everybody knows defensive rating is garbage. It is highly skewed by team defense in most cases. Rose > Wade on defense no question. Take off the homer goggles folks.

Except this isn't one of those cases.

SportsFanatic10
01-03-2013, 10:46 PM
He's the best defensive player out of the group. If his offense isn't on par with Kobe/Wade, it's certainly close, much closer than the defensive gap.

dumb...


Rose would be 1,Westbrook behind Harden/Kobe/Wade

and dumber...

naps
01-03-2013, 11:00 PM
If there was one defensive weak link in Bulls defensive schemes of starting 5 it was easily Rose. Did Rose suddenly become a better defender during his ACL rehab? Dear lord, 2012 will be known as an odd year of this decade's PSD forums because Bulls fans were not overrating the **** out of Rose in 2012. Now that he's coming back from injury (I really hope he comes back 100% as I like the kid) this forum is gonna blow up once again by Rose fans.



Steals and blocks have more to do with help defense and playing the passing lanes well. High steals can also be from gambling on defense. The blocks are indicative of his solid help. Everybody knows defensive rating is garbage. It is highly skewed by team defense in most cases. Rose > Wade on defense no question. Take off the homer goggles folks.

Do you realize Bulls were the better defensive team than the Heat. If anything that has helped Rose defensive rating :laugh2:

ChiSox219
01-03-2013, 11:09 PM
dumb...



and dumber...

I get it, you disagree. **** off

b@llhog24
01-03-2013, 11:16 PM
I get it, you disagree. **** off

:laugh2:

SportsFanatic10
01-03-2013, 11:41 PM
I get it, you disagree. **** off

lol you actually expect people to let your ridiculous posts slide without calling them out?

ChiSox219
01-04-2013, 12:13 AM
lol you actually expect people to let your ridiculous posts slide without calling them out?

I posted the link to ESPNs player rankings as of the start of 2012, Rose was 5, Kobe 6, Wade 7. Wade, Rose, and Kobe are all elite superstars on the same tier of talent.

You can read about Rose's defensive breakout two years ago:
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/rose-dwarfs-other-improvements-with-defense/
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bulls/post/_/id/2717/derrick-roses-defensive-improvement-is-obvious

You come in here calling Bulls fans delusional and me ridiculous but you've added nothing to the topic. Just stop.

Rosh
01-04-2013, 12:20 AM
Rose is NOT a better defender than Wade.


I consider myself more of an objective fan than most in here, but I would have to disagree. Under Thibodeau Rose has developed into one of the best defensive guards in the league.

Wade's game is predicated off of cheating off of his man and getting into the passing lane for steals, leaving his man open for wide-open jumpers far too often. If Wade applied himself a bit more on that end, perhaps he could have been better than Rose while Wade was still in the middle of his prime, but we'll never know.

Rose is not getting away with Wade's defense under Thibodeau. Ronnie Brewer, who was a noteworthy defender for the Bulls the last couple of seasons, reportedly drew the ire of Thibodeau for jumping into the passing lane too much. And this was for arguably our best perimeter defender. Thibs' tutelage has helped Rose far along in this area and he is definitely the better defender, especially at this stage in their respective careers.

rollins94
01-04-2013, 12:44 AM
I consider myself more of an objective fan than most in here, but I would have to disagree. Under Thibodeau Rose has developed into one of the best defensive guards in the league.

Wade's game is predicated off of cheating off of his man and getting into the passing lane for steals, leaving his man open for wide-open jumpers far too often. If Wade applied himself a bit more on that end, perhaps he could have been better than Rose while Wade was still in the middle of his prime, but we'll never know.

Rose is not getting away with Wade's defense under Thibodeau. Ronnie Brewer, who was a noteworthy defender for the Bulls the last couple of seasons, reportedly drew the ire of Thibodeau for jumping into the passing lane too much. And this was for arguably our best perimeter defender. Thibs' tutelage has helped Rose far along in this area and he is definitely the better defender, especially at this stage in their respective careers.

Agreed. Im not sure where people get off saying Wade is THE class defensively at SG, especially recently given age and injuries. At his best, wade was an explosive disruptor at SG who blew up plays with raw athleticism, not primarily a guy who worked within system to elevate an entire unit. Those days are long gone anyway and hes only going to dip more at that end as the years go by. Neither impress me with individual shooting ability and Rose's handle is a lot better than Wades has ever been. Again, all hinging on rose's return/ rehab, but what aspect is wade better than rose at this point?

HiphopRelated
01-04-2013, 09:40 AM
Wade doesn't even gamble anymore unless it's a sure thing.

Not last year and damn sure not this year. Wade has been punishing SGs this year for the most part.

lol @ Rose being a better defender at ANY point. Dude can't even get around a screen, which needs to be basic for any guard in the NBA.

benzni
01-04-2013, 09:43 AM
lack size so I can see that impacting their rank.

canefandynasty
01-04-2013, 09:47 AM
Ain't no way Rose is a better defender than Wade. That's an absurd claim.

rollins94
01-04-2013, 10:27 AM
Wade doesn't even gamble anymore unless it's a sure thing.

Not last year and damn sure not this year. Wade has been punishing SGs this year for the most part.

lol @ Rose being a better defender at ANY point. Dude can't even get around a screen, which needs to be basic for any guard in the NBA.

Only gambles on a sure thing? I really hope you get the irony of that statement. Any time you gamble you leave the rest of your team in a weak position, one the heat really cant afford this year as their defense is really not that great and lacks presence in the middle. More than anything, wade cannot afford to gamble defensively, lacks athleticism that made it sucsessful in the past, and gets burned when it doesnt work. As for all of the "Rose cant get around a screen talk" WHAT? He is one of the quickest guards in the league at either position and the Bulls defensive system encourages help over the top on picks by the screener's man. Do you really believe that rose cant do this? Seriously? I dont think anyone will possibly argue that Rose's body of work defensively (or on offense, for that matter) eclipses wade's, but he at least has the potential to sustain a high level of play on that end than wade. wades exceptional block and steal stats will decline as his athleticism leaves him, and hes simply not a good enough team defender to warrant much merit otherwise. maybe a few more "name recognition" type of second or third team defensive awards, but his days of actually deserving something like that are long gone. Similar defense at this point, clearly more valuable offensive skill set. Ill take rose, you can keep wade and his third banana status

Slug3
01-04-2013, 11:08 AM
Obviously Slug3 cares.

So wait I don't get it, you don't want to use any types of stats cause they all favor someone else not named Rose but then you don't want to state the fact that rose blew out his knee and that with the "hope" that is come back fully healthy you believe he is still the best.

HiphopRelated
01-04-2013, 05:09 PM
Only gambles on a sure thing? I really hope you get the irony of that statement. Any time you gamble you leave the rest of your team in a weak position, one the heat really cant afford this year as their defense is really not that great and lacks presence in the middle. More than anything, wade cannot afford to gamble defensively, lacks athleticism that made it sucsessful in the past, and gets burned when it doesnt work. As for all of the "Rose cant get around a screen talk" WHAT? He is one of the quickest guards in the league at either position and the Bulls defensive system encourages help over the top on picks by the screener's man. Do you really believe that rose cant do this? Seriously? I dont think anyone will possibly argue that Rose's body of work defensively (or on offense, for that matter) eclipses wade's, but he at least has the potential to sustain a high level of play on that end than wade. wades exceptional block and steal stats will decline as his athleticism leaves him, and hes simply not a good enough team defender to warrant much merit otherwise. maybe a few more "name recognition" type of second or third team defensive awards, but his days of actually deserving something like that are long gone. Similar defense at this point, clearly more valuable offensive skill set. Ill take rose, you can keep wade and his third banana status

ok, let me rephrase that, he only shoots the hole on a sure thing, so he does it MUCH less than previous years.

If you have watched Wade defensively this season you would know this. But the rest of your statements makes me question that.

Rose has never at any point EVER been a better defender, unless you know something about his ACL rehab that I don't.

Who has Rose ever locked down?

sammyvine
01-04-2013, 07:39 PM
westbrook would be marbury x2

he would chuck all day and ignore every player.

WOwolfOL
01-04-2013, 08:08 PM
DRtg
Rose: 101
Wade:99

Opponent's PER
Rose: 11,7
Wade: 10,6

SPG
Rose: 0,9
Wade: 1,7

BPG
Rose: 0,7
Wade: 1,3

Rose was a good defender in 2011, Wade was elite.

These numbers are a lot closer than everybody with their 'Rose isn't in the same league' comments will ever admit.

305 till I die
01-04-2013, 08:23 PM
If Rose came back the same he could be the best shooting guard in the league. I always thought he was a better fit as a sg.